Vs Prof E F Clark Was Christ Crucified London
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AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers discuss the use of the word resurrection in media and the importance of history in understanding actions. They address questions about the church's stance on religion and the potential impact of the coronavirus on the economy. They emphasize the need for everyone to practice social distancing measures and wear masks to protect themselves. The potential for a second wave of the virus to be contained in weeks is also discussed.AI Generated Transcript ©
shaytaan rajim Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen wa salatu wa salam ala
Sayidina Muhammad wa ala alihi wa sahbihi wa
sallahu wa barakaatuh Allah
Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam Mashallah Morimoto to Hakuna Matata, Hakuna kulala
our distinguished guests,
brothers and sisters
according to the Islamic way, I have to greet you saying Assalamualaikum warahmatullah.
I have the pleasure to be here tonight
to chair that meeting
and
to attend to learn to be educated by the two great
scholars
in Christianity.
I'm not going to introduce them to you. I will leave that to our brother, Dr. Jamal Badawi.
My intention now is to call upon
a reader or researcher of the Holy Quran.
He is one of the best in Egypt, famous in the whole Muslim world.
He will start or begin this meeting as a custom in Islam. As to start our meeting is was a recitation from the Holy Quran. So we will listen to him and I hope all of you will enjoy the reading. Check out Medan
law from the devil.
You walk in the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Yes.
was sent to them from heaven.
public face to face,
thunder and lightning.
The worship
towering height of Mount Sinai
and On another occasion, we said
in humility
once again
In the matter of the
this pleasure
again to me,
Jesus,
Praise Jesus.
It was made
with no certain knowledge,
only conjecture to follow.
He killed him, not
me. God raised him after himself.
No.
One God is Exalted in Power
153 to 158
Allahu labin.
Brothers and sisters,
let me say a few words to acquaint you with the debate, is it of recent time, or it goes back to the history in the early history of Islam, there is something that happened like that.
If it was not a debate between two scholars, it was in literature. It started in the time that our budget Caliphate, some of our brothers, the Christian, the monk wrote something in a form of a question and answer, saying, teaching the Christians how to answer the Muslims and how to boost tuition to them.
Someone took it took that up, for example, Sally, took that up and wrote something about Christianity. It was an AC, a small paper written about refuting the questions of the missionaries and the monks or replying them.
Someone after Allah bizarrely tokat in a large way, in our extensive studies, we can read for example, and Milan was written by Edna has, he spoke he or he discussed this matter in a full length and intellectually It is so difficult for us for unless we are a scholars in Christianity, it is difficult to because that man has tried his best to philosophize is a matchup and the budget in a rational base.
Also, abney Tamia took the matter up and spoke about Christianity refuting or answering the questions bought by the monks and the missionaries. He has a book by name Al Jazeera bisaya. Remember dalla Deen and Messiah the right answer for those who are old Todd is a Christian religion, and so on. In our time, even shares Rama tala Hindi, met the missionaries in India. And he stood again is the title of missionaries. And he has a book by name,
which is considered as source the main source for us now, to debate or to know something about Christianity. I know that a lot of literature was written about this subject, but we didn't attend, when we read that, oh, it is something rational things and so on. So but to attend, it is myself. And if I saw if I say so it is myself, I never attend a debate between two gigantic people, scholars in Christianity to debate with each other. I know that we are not here to score points or to try to convert each other. But we want to to present Islam in a foreigner in our right form. Islam in the West was is and still misunderstood. When we say that is our attitude toward you, Jesus. It doesn't
mean that we are condemning the Christianity or we are refuting the Christianity but we are saying is that is that is our attitude towards Christianity. And what Islam is to show our brothers here in the West and in America, what Islam is and to come to understanding, to create some harmony, because when we understand each other religion, we will understand each other we will come together we will be we will mitigate that gap between what sometimes some vestige and diversity people create some just harmony, enmity between the two religions.
They are benefited by that. What we are trying to do now is to mitigate the gap between Muslims and Christianity and to create some harmony between Muslims and the Christians according to the Holy Quran, because you know that the Holy Quran, the need is People of the Book to to Muslims are the Christians that is inserted in the Holy Quran. So we are trying to fulfill that and to create that bridge to come together. And our scholars of course, they will speak intellectually. I am sure that we may miss or we may miss
Understand, so if you have any doubt, if you have any misunderstanding, there will be a time for questions to clarify all what is said or what misunderstood and it will be given to you to ask all of them. Now, I'm not going to talk anymore, but I'll ask our Gamal Badawi Dr. Gamal, to introduce our speakers and you will
enjoy that to Kansas discussion. Thank you.
mursaleen
all Grace is due to Allah created and cherisher of the universe, and may his peace and blessings be upon Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and upon all prophets who preceded him in history. I greet you with the Islamic greeting as salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Which means, made the peace and blessing of Allah, the creator will be upon you all.
It is indeed
a welcome opportunity that we meet together this evening, in order to hear a Christian perspective, and a Muslim perspective about the topic was Jesus peace be upon him crucified.
The organizers of this function suggested that since a good number of our fellow Christians may not be totally familiar with Islam as understood by Muslims, I was requested to include a few minutes very few minutes hopefully, by way of clarification of the term Islam at least. The term Islam comes from an Arabic root, which denotes peace and submission. Put together, Islam simply means peace through submission to the will of the Creator, to allow
a comment on both words peace and submission. When we speak about peace, we speak about Above all, peace with Allah, the creator of peace with oneself, the certitude, the confidence, the tranquility, resulting from believing in the Creator. And as a result, it would achieve hopefully peace with other human beings and peace with the universe and environment in which we live. The word submission
means conscious, trusting and loving submission to the will of the Creator, receiving his guidance and accepting his grace.
According to the Quran, Islam, defined as such, in this generic meaning, was the essence of the mission of all Prophets and Messengers throughout human history. The differences and problems that we find today, among those quote unquote followers of this message, as in profits, may result at times from the misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the nature and mission of their profits. Or it could result also from the lack of commitment on the part of those who claim to follow Jesus or Muhammad peace be upon them, but not to try to implement the teaching, taught by those two giants in their lives. And as such, we can never evaluate a religion or faith by the action of those who claim
to belong to it, but rather to evaluate those who claim to belong to any faith according to the standards of that faith. According to the authentic teaching, by the great prophets of those
ways of life or faith, I should say.
Among many of the prophets who are mentioned in the Quran, five are singled out as the greatest. They are called in the Quran, Odin as the greatest and those with great perseverance and determination. And these include prophets, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon them all. Indeed, a prerequisite for a Muslim to be a Muslim is to believe in respect and love. All of these prophets who are regarded as brothers in the path of Allah in the path of obedience and commitment of our entire life to His will.
And as Jesus peace be upon him,
is mentioned as one of the greatest five, it might be suitable to make a comment here, that his name and his mission and various aspects about him appear in numerous Sutras, quote unquote chapter in the Quran. Indeed, one of the sutras or chapters in the Quran texts, it's named after the name of Mary, the mother of Jesus peace be upon me scrolling through that Marian, this surah of Mary, and it's number in the chronology of the Quran is 19.
Now, while Muslims and Christians do differ, and we should make the point clear I do differ on the issue of divinity attributed to Prophet Jesus peace be upon him. And while they differ also on the issue of crucifixion, whether it happened, what the meaning of it is, even if it happened, what significance really does it have, I believe there is still an area of common ground that we may start from, that both Muslims and Christians believe in respects and love, Jesus peace be upon him. He is called in the Quran, a prophet, messengers, mercy, anointed or Messiah. He is described in a very tender way, especially in this surah number 19 as one who is blessed in this life and the
hereafter, and among those who are nearest to Allah, the creator.
I hope that while we all understand that inter religious understanding and dialogues might involve varying degrees of emotions. I do hope, however, that all of us here, belonging to Islam, Christianity, or other ways of life, for that matter, approach tonight's evening, with a loving atmosphere and with an open heart and open mind. It is my privilege and honor to present you the first speaker, Professor Floyd Clark.
Professor Clark is of the Philippi Church of Christ in Cresswell in the United States. He is a professor emeritus of the Johnson Bible College in Knoxville, Tennessee. Presently he travels throughout the world looking after the church groups, which belonged to his organization
and the various mission services organization and he is at present based in Knoxville, Tennessee. Professor Clark will be speaking for 15 minutes, Professor
Mr. Moderator,
my good friend,
comedy debt, distinguished guests and friends.
I am so grateful to be here and to participate in this most unusual dialogue. First, may I introduce to you some of my
people first of all my wife Clara down here in front Clara Clark.
We are on a married five months and we spent part of our honeymoon in Durban and visited with Ahmed and his family and treasure those moments. On May with me on the platform also his brother Richard born my hosts this week and a former graduate, former student of mine, a graduate of our school and now at work here in London, with the beret Church of Christ in henden. Brother Richard born
somewhere around here is the fella that got this all started
back in 1962. One of my other students was at work in South Africa and
succeeded and getting brother deedat to agreed to a public discussion over some of the things which he had said and thus this man got launched into
A ministry that has carried him worldwide. I'll Hamilton and South has been involved in mission work all the way from South Africa to Papua New Guinea. And he and his wife are here somewhere
on it.
He's lost as usual.
Okay. So delighted to have our with us when this came up. I said you got me into this you got to be here tonight.
Other members and friends we have Dr. Wiedemann and his family.
Dr. Wiedemann is not only a farmer student, but a fellow professor at Johnson Bible College, now dean at Lincoln Christian College in Lincoln, Illinois, been here for a summer term teaching and
in college here in
the United Kingdom.
May we go to the Lord in prayer, please?
their Lord, I thank you so much for the tone that has already been set in this meeting. And for the earnest words of these who have spoken to the situation and Lauren, I'm grateful and others beside myself are interested in building bridges between these people that are so numerous of these two great faiths and we pray tonight that we shall be able to communicate and to share and that no one will go home this evening without having them profited by these discussions. May your grace attenders or we pray, in the name of our Lord and for his sake, man.
My preparation for this discussion, as I've already intimated, started many years ago, when owl succeeded and getting brother Ahmed to agree to a public discussion. He wrote me and said, you're going to have to come down and engage in this discussion. And I made preparations to do so. And they were held in
South Africa in 1963, one in the city hall and Johannesburg, and one in the city hall in Durban. But by the time those discussions came around, I was hindered by responsibilities at
Johnson Bible college, and I sent my colleague Dr. Searle Simpkins. And he reported to us later that he had a very respectful hearing from all of the people on both occasions. I was not able personally to meet Ahmed and exchange views with him until two years ago when I was able to visit Durban and he invited me out to his home. And we spent some 14 hours in rather vigorous and often loud discussions.
I then was able this past March and April to return to Durban and my wife and I were on three different occasions entertained and the deedat home. And my wife enjoyed the hospitality of Mrs. D, that as well. I want everyone to understand that I do not come here to
engage in some sort of contest to ridicule my friend or make problems for him. I do not come as an enemy, but as a friend and I value his friendship very highly.
Before we began, and I hesitate to do this, not knowing exactly how my words will be taken, but I feel obliged both for Ahmed and myself
to rim to make a remark about what happened last Wednesday night to us. He and myself both here at the central mosque in London.
I think you were very unkind to my friend because you gave him an assignment he said he had never had opportunity to prepare to do and when he attempted to speak to the subject and then turn to other matters, somebody sent a note to him while he was still speaking to get back to the subject. I think that was most fun.
kind to treat the guests like that. And I was also a little bit concerned because you asked me to occupy the speaker's table along with brother Ahmed. But you didn't give me an opportunity either to greet the audience or to speak a word on this subject. And it just so happens that this particular subject
that was assigned to Ahmed has been the one to which I have devoted my attention for these last 48 years, Ahmed seemed to have a little difficulty maybe I misunderstood him and finding much in the Quran on this subject. But I have found in the Bible, you know, so many things that speak about the relation of God and man, I feel if you had let me have a chance, I could have said something to help my friend out. Please don't do me that way again. And I will appreciate it.
The subject as you have already heard and know for this assignment, through which we are each speaking, as was Jesus Christ crucified? And in order to answer that question, I think we understand we'll have to ask at least two more questions. First of all, what is crucifixion? What does it mean when it says Jesus was crucified? And secondly, what are Who is this person called Jesus Christ, of whom we are discussing this evening,
they practice of crucifixion, is defined in Webster's New World dictionary as the execution by nailing or binding a person to a cross on them leaving this person to die of exposure.
In the case of Jesus, the gospel record is clear he was not just fasten. He was nailed both through his hands and his feet.
The Romans, I'm sure you understand are the ones who perfected this particular form of execution in order to terrorize the slaves of the Roman world upon whom they depended. For all of their words, the Romans had
travelled across the world with this terrifying war machine of theirs that trample over all the nations of the world, and reduced most men to slavery. The record indicates that in Jesus time, nine out of 10 men in the Roman world were slaves. And their story ends in Rome record the fact that the ROM lived in daily fear of a slave uprising.
With so many slaves, and some of them far more intelligent than their masters and better educated. These people were constantly threatened by the fact that the slaves might revolt.
And so they began almost a universal practice,
taking slaves and making object lessons on them by crucifying them in prominent places where all could be in fear.
In the method of execution by crucifixion,
the person is nailed to a bar through the small parts of his recession and the wrist so that the nails would not strip out through the hands.
And this bar to which he is nailed is then raised up and dropped on to a post.
And this post probably already in place as the Romans practiced execution by crucifixion everywhere.
And then the person's feet were pulled up against the word of the post and one nail driven through the ankles of each foot into the wood.
But fixing him and a crouching position where there could be some movement up and down on the cross, and the person would not then immediately die of suffocation.
For death on the cross album that layer ended and suffocation when the body weakened by the loss of blood and the excruciating pain and the exposure would get altom Utley so weak that the person could no longer force the body up and release the air that was trapped in the lungs and then get another breath of air.
They
end the case of folk like Jesus, where they apparently were interested in hastening the death of the person crucified, the Romans would equip the victim before the time of the crucifixion. And these terrible hips that the US would cut the back and open up the blood vessels and the individual and weaken him and hasten his death. And as you know, Jesus was quipped before he was crucified. Of course, if the Romans at any one time wanted to end the life of a person, it was easily done, whenever they were prepared for the person to die, and they could just go and break his legs. And then he could no longer push himself up and get the air and in a few moments, he would be suffocated
to death.
In the case of Jesus, it is quite clear that when they crucified Him, they flogged him. And then they nailed Him to the cross. And then for these six hours, he was fasten there to the cross by the nails.
The second part of the question tonight has to do a webinar Who is this Jesus Christ who was crucified,
we have already heard that he is one of the prophets
and one to be revered. A waste start on Lake concur and not a statement already made this evening.
Let's look however, and more detail as to what the Bible has to say about this one called Jesus, the Christ.
The Gospel says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he was a mighty worker of miracles, that he was a great teacher and prophet.
And, as you've already heard, and my friend Ahmed had already told me I understand the Quran does teach you that you are to believe such things about Jesus called the Christ.
But there is more in the scripture about him. Mary was told to call him Yeshua are in the English Jesus,
a transliteration of the Hebrew word which in the verb form means to save and Mary was told by the angel to name him Savior. For the angel said he would save His people from their sins. of the word Christ comes not from the Hebrew but from the Greek, as Greek was the common language of the day, and it is the language in which the New Testament Scriptures are written.
They word Christ means anointed.
And when Jesus asked his apostles whom they thought him to be, Peter responded by saying, You are the Christ.
This word signifies someone who has been put in a place of authority and anointed as the installation process to that office. The Jews of Old Testament times, anointed prophets and priests and kings before they were installed in office.
And when Peter says than Jesus, that he is the Christ, he has to mean at least that in Peters mind, he is the Prophet he is the priest. He is the King
and
john 846
When the temple authorities were sent to arrest Jesus, and they returned without him,
they priests wanted to know why. And they said, Never man. So spate, as this man speaks,
is an MA is recognize that certainly Jesus was a prophet. And speaking with great power, Jesus Himself said of his own speech, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are aligned.
As to his being priests, we are told in the Hebrew letter, that Jesus was made a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
As to being king, you well know that this was the thing that got him crucified, because when Pilate asked him, Are you King? And he said, Yes, I'm King.
And when he was crucified, Pilate had written in the three languages of the people, the King of the Jews, so his enemies, and the authorities recognize that Jesus was claiming to be some kind of King.
And so when we are asked, Who is this Jesus Christ, we have to think in terms of him as a prophet, as a high priest, and as a king.
When Jesus was baptized by john in the Jordan,
the spirit, it says,
drove him into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
And some 40 days later, when he returned, john, the man who had immersed him,
pointed him out and said, Behold the Lamb of God.
And that term has to mean something to the Muslim people. As you
can see, consider the necessity of a sacrifice among your own people.
JOHN said, Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. But we cannot understand Jesus apart from his mission, which he came to fulfill. And we will need to take a look at his times, if we were to understand that
the leaders of the world at the beginning of the Christian era were for the most part, skeptical about God. If there was a god, he was not interested in man, especially the poor man. The only help that any man could expect was that which he found that the end of each of his wrists, his own hand, or his own head would have to help him no one else would.
Know worlds philosophers had searched for centuries for meaning to life, and had grown up with nothing better than to eat and drink. For tomorrow we die
are the most common practice leading to suicide which said, Don't worry about anything because every vein in the body is a way out.
All the while, the God of heaven has been revealing himself to the world by the things which he had made. Anywhere a man chose to look he could find evidence of God's supreme power and intelligence. But men refused to recognize God or give him credit.
Rather, they chose to believe that the demons in rocks and trees had power over the universe. with their own hands, they made images of all kinds of things and hope that the powers and these images would give to their owners the means of controlling the world to their own purposes.
Say since man rejected the knowledge of the God of heaven, God withdrew the light of reason from these people.
And men became creatures and slave to vile passions and rested on Lee and working something shameful and disgraceful to their own bodies.
to such a world and the reign of the Roman Caesar tie beer. Yes, Jesus came preaching
They
now 30 years of age, Jesus came to his home province of Galilee, preaching and the Hebrew synagogues and declaring to all who would listen that the kingdom of God had arrived. And men should now repent and believe the Gospel.
The Gospel as defined by the Bible, is the good news that God does not want any person to be lost, but to for all to come to the knowledge of the truth.
And that God loved man, he did not hate man, but God loved man. And so he was going to provide a way for man to be rescued from his own destruction.
If this was going to happen, man, however, we're going to have to change their mind because they were possessed with this idea that there was no deity really in charge, but the devils themselves. And they had to take those devils somehow if they would survive in this world.
And so Jesus had to demonstrate not just by word, but by his life, that God is still in charge, God is still in control. And God intends that man has the power to overcome Satan, and be the victor in this world. And then this life now don't do that. Of course, he had to counter the lies of this, they wise people of the day and tell men the truth, even as we have that problem today,
and surely we can join and that effort to convince the world of our time that this world did not just happen, just did not come by some sort of
easy process, but that God is the Creator and Sustainer of our universe, and to Him, we will all one day given a crown.
JOHN says in the preface of his gospel, grace and truth became came into being arrived for the first time by Jesus Christ. Those are important statements.
Up until Jesus came, nobody gave anybody a favor.
It was thought to be coward eyes, it was thought to be almost criminal to be kinder forgiving to anyone. It was a case of every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost. But Jesus came to explain about God's grace, and to show how that grace could redeem man from the miseries into which he had fallen. But of course, he had to tell the truth, the truth about God and his world and about man, and all the things that he was needing to gain attention, he had to demonstrate that he himself had the power of God. And so as you know, and as you believe he performed all sorts of miracles that still has the world talking. He multiplied, for instance, the boys lunch and fed 5000 men besides
women and children.
He still the storm by command, and they wind stopped and the waves were quieted. He healed the sick, it didn't matter how badly sick, he restored lepers to health. He gave sight of the blind hearing to the Deaf, raise the dead and all these things.
He was trying to tell us that God is good, he's not bad. He's not a devil of some kind, interested in destroying us all God is good. And God is wanting to prepare a good world for us, not only here, but in the world to come.
On one occasion, as you may know, if you've read the Gospel, Jesus brought a man back to life who had been dead for days. Jews the Jews did not embalm they buried therefore ordinarily the same day by winding the body with the cloth and
putting in whatever spices they could afford.
On the occasion, we
Read in john 11, about this work of Christ.
Jesus friends, Mary and Martha had sent word to him that his friend Lazarus, their brother was sick. But the servants could not locate Jesus right away. And by the time he arrived, Lazarus was in the tomb for days already.
Jesus asked the girls to take him out to the burial place, and they did with many of the townspeople funneling.
At the tomb side, he asked the sisters to have the stone removed, and they objected, saying that he's dead already. There will be bad odor. But Jesus insisted and they moved the stone.
Then standing there with the orders coming out of the dead body from within Jesus spoke first to his heavenly Father saying, Father, I know that you hear me at all times. But because of the people standing here, I say this, that they may believe that you have sent me
and then kneeling down, no doubt and shouting into the door of the tomb.
And
totally amazement of the bystanders, a buddy came out of the opening of the cave, and unseen hand, set that man on his feet. And Jesus said to the sisters, loosen him and let him go.
parable for our time.
I wonder if Jesus isn't asking a lot of us to lose a lot of people and let them go, that Satan has bound and all sorts of things.
The one, however, who could do this could still not convince his enemies, he had the right to such powers. And of course, that is still true today.
Brother Ahmed, I've been trying to say we will never accomplish anything by arguments. If we're going to accomplish anything and learning the truth. It has to be by brotherhood and goodwill, and the effort honestly, to listen to one another. But you know, other people have a different way toward that, and that was in Jesus day.
And so and they said, he had to dine south,
and demonstrate that he had the power. That was the mighty power, which would make it impossible really, for anyone to destroy him unless he consented to it.
Jesus said, you know that no one is going to kill me. He said, I'm going to lay down my life, myself. And if I have power to lay it down, I have power to take it again.
They
practice among the Christians that sometimes is called the Eucharist or the Holy Communion is a celebration of the meaning of what Jesus was trying to say.
For on the Lord's day, when Christians take a bit of bread and break it, and then eat it. They are remembering something Jesus told his disciples that night and the upper room,
trying to get them ready for the moment when he would be gone.
And to remind them that if he left, he would certainly be back. He took some bread, and brother Ahmed has served me some of that bread at his table. And it's better. He didn't bring me some tonight or I'd used it here.
He took this bread and broke it
and gave to them and said, Now this is my body, you eat this and remembrance of me. And the Christians since that time,
have remembered what happened that moment on the cross when it was all finished and Jesus had done everything that prophecies said a must do. Suddenly he Yao big and strong from the cross, Father into my hands. I come in my spirit and then a mama a was gone.
Every large day as I with my brothers break bread, I remember that moment because he said, Remember me, remember me how and that I gave my life it was broken and I was gone. But just as quickly I'll be back.
Even as your prophets tell you to believe that our Lord Jesus is to return.
And then the climax of the events of the world of this time to serve in judgment, and the final things in our world.
But also this is related to another Christian practice you may not understand.
We're Christians, as you will understand, have been our worst enemies.
divided in so many ways, saying so many contradictory things you are not to be blamed if you do not understand what Christians are supposed to believe.
But Jesus came to begin something when he came to john Jordan and was baptized, john and Machar didn't and the heavens were opened, the Holy Spirit descended, and God claimed him as his special son.
And Jesus then said and partying with his disciples that they were to go into all the world preach the gospel and immerse people in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and teach thought he had commanded.
You see, when a Christian obeys that command,
he is demonstrating his belief that Jesus was
century Jesus surrendered up his life, he was buried, he was raised the third day, and he is coming again, every time someone is baptized, this is the demonstration. This person believes that just as Jesus died, he can die to his sins, just as Jesus was buried in the tomb. He can have his sins buried, just as Jesus was raised, he can be raised free from his sins and receive on the Holy Spirit, and live as God intends his people. So there are two points. If you want to understand few who are of the Muslim faith, the Islamic faith, one to understand Christians, you cannot understand them apart from these two celebrations. the breaking of the bread and the ocean in the water.
There is a part of this, Mr. Chairman, how am I doing? Are you going to call? How much time do I have here? 15 minutes, 15 minutes? Is he the moderator? Are you
your timing, may I?
Okay, they say I have 15 minutes? Well, I, I appreciate that.
Jesus, as God's great witness in the world,
was trying to tell us that God intends people to live a good life in this world. He said, I came that you might have life and have it abundantly.
He said, Of all the things which he did greater things than these shall ye do because I go to the Father.
Now, friend, those are promises we all need.
All of us can feel that we are victimized by the circumstances of life from time to time.
And all of us need the assurance that when we talk to God, we're not just talking into a phone when there's no one else on the other end of the line.
They Christian is trying to demonstrate and should and if he's a genuine Christian, he does
that that mighty power of God comes in associated with the name of Jesus Christ because he said if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
When he was chiding His apostles one time for their small faith, he said if you had faith like a little tiny grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mountain, move over there and it would move and nothing nothing shall be
Impossible to you?
Know, are you interested in that promise?
Surely, if Jesus is a prophet, he wouldn't make a promise like that and not plan to make it good.
He said, If you ask, I promise you nothing, nothing shall be impossible to you.
Now I'm here
as a physical demonstration, though, that promise I should have been dead two years ago.
And of course, other times in the past, but I have survived. I'm convinced because God has made this old man able to do what for him was the impossible and tonight is one of those.
I believe I am to remain in this world, as long as I can continue to demonstrate that when I pray, not because I'm good or anything, but when I pray, God's Will things happen that have never happened before.
Now, friends, we've got lots of miseries in our world that God wants to do something about.
But God's answer to every problem in the world has always been someone who would believe him.
Maybe I had time to tell the story of Moses, and I like this part of that story. Moses is one of your profits as well as ours. You remember the time when Moses was trying to lead the people out of Egypt, and God was directing the way through the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day and they got trapped down there along the Suez along the Red Sea between the mountains and the sea and fairy owes army pursuing and look like they were all boxed in and Moses in desperation, fell down and cried out to the Lord, why were there no good places in Egypt for us to dine at you have to bring us on air into this miserable place. And God said to Moses, get out.
Get your people out, tell him.
And he said, you take that stick you have in your hand and you know that water and divide the water.
In the Greek translation of that Hebrew Scripture, translated some 200 years before the time of for Christ. The word says rip or tear. I like that picture.
God commands that old 80 year old man,
you feel like you're at tonight.
He looks a little tired. You haven't treated him Well, this week. Please let him live a little longer be kind to him.
I am relate a little bit. So this old man 80 years old Wallace responsibility and he's telling him take the stick and go down and tear up that water
down and he took his stick and he will have that water in the water ran away from him and pile up on both sides and the people went through on dry land.
I've been in Africa recently
trying to tell our African people. God doesn't have to have millions and millions and millions of dollars to do something for you. When you're prepared to put to use what stick or whatever it is, that is in your hand. God can make you change your world.
And that's what our Lord came to do.
It is with reason that history divides before Christ, and after Christ, because he started something
that has made possible influences that have completely altered the world and brought joy and happiness and peace, such as we could never imagine.
I
visited with my friend Ahmed, two years ago
And at the end of these hours and hours of discussion, I said, Now I understand you tell me that you believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin and he performed these miracles,
that he was God's prophet. I said, Why don't you follow him? And Ahmed said, I do.
And I said, No, you don't really.
For Jesus said, He that believers and is baptized shall be saved, then you have not been baptized.
I hope I can see the day when you and he can understand that you people from the Muslim faith can obey Jesus Christ.
Not to join the confusion and the denominational world.
But have all the truth that Jesus has for you.
If in spite of all the problems that have been raised, you can understand that you can believe our Lord, and He wants to lead you.
I understand that you man
34 times a day, I believe it is, say in the midst of your prayers to God, show us the straight path.
Remember Jesus, he said,
I am the way, the truth and the life.
No man Kama thunder, the father by me.
And he said, I am the way on the resurrection.
I asked sincerely. I want to be your friend. I'm not asking as an enemy. I am not trying to threaten you.
I am asking you to weigh these words. And understand that Jesus wants to direct your path.
Thank you. I don't need that five minutes. I believe I'm finished right now. Ahmed, it's all yours.
Thank you, Dr. Clark.
But I have one I have one word to say.
When we were in the Islamic culture center, we have no idea whatsoever that Dr. Kirk is will be there. And the subject we were talking we were
selecting to talk about. I don't think it was in has no any relevance to Dr. Clark to talk about. If we don't invite him to give a talk. If we it appears that we don't entertain him nicely. I'm very sorry for that. I apologize to him. But as a matter of fact, we had no idea that he will attend the meeting. And after the meeting, it was very short time, and we have to go for our prayer. So we are very sorry, time was limited, so limited. So that's why we even didn't ask didn't answer all the questions. Anyhow.
We are happy to hear that sermon and the vivid picture. We heard about the crucifixion of Jesus. I think it will live in our memory for a long time. And now, I'll invite asked our brother Jamal to introduce Dr. Besser deedat.
Before introducing our second speaker, just a little announcement that those brothers or sisters who did not have their last prayers, you should try to find any place and do it wherever you can, because there will be no break since the time is really at a premium.
Our second speaker is Mr. Ahmed deedat.
Mr. deedat is a world renowned Muslim scholar, and writer. He developed special interest in comparative religion, and wrote about 25 works on the subject.
Mr. deedat is a well traveled person who participated in lectures, seminars and dialogues in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and the US. Mr. deedat also heads a well known charitable organization in Durban, South Africa, this organization make available among other things, free literature's in the form of books, cassette tapes and audio visual tapes and make that available through our the world default
Net for tonight would be for the 15 minutes that Professor Clark has taken. And Mr. deedat will be speaking for 60 minutes. And the other 10 minutes due to Professor Clark will be taken after Mr. deedat. Mr. to that.
I would like to bring your attention the very well taken remark made by chefs around the chairman of the conference in the beginning, that we are not meeting here for any particular context contest, nor for any political demonstration. I think it is. It behooves all of us Muslims and Christian fellows and others, to concentrate on rational thinking and trying to understand what the speakers are saying, without expressing emotions in this form. I appreciate that and I would demand it.
Mr. Chairman, if you will allow me I would like my brothers and sisters, all to stand up for a second and take a deep breath. Please.
Take a deep breath, losing your limbs, losing your limbs before you sit down. So you know you'll be more relaxed when I get started.
Take a deep breath. Yes, Marsha.
shaytan al rajim
Bismillahi Rahmani Raheem Rocco Jarl Haku was
in bartylla Canas
bananas. Ronnie Maharshi found meaning
in a law sadhaka law
as he
was the chairman
and blathering
on the subject of crucifixion.
The Muslims position is very clear.
He's told,
in no uncertain terms in the Holy Quran.
Which portions of the sections of those verses were recited by our beloved carry?
And I repeat for you from Surah Nisa, verse number 157.
Which gives us a solution to this problem in a nutshell, one verse, it says, Only him in a tunnel merciful, he said no Mariama. Rasulullah.
And they said in boast the Jews they said in boast that we killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the apostle of God.
In answerbag, Allah says, while Matata aloo masala boo that they didn't kill him, nor did they crucify him while attacking should they love him, but it was made to appear to them so that is what they thought they had done. Why in Allah Zenith Allah foofy he left the shotgun Minh home and those who stood there in a full of doubts. Marla Huberman. They have no certain knowledge electabuzz
they only follow conjecture, guesswork, fiction electabuzz Rama Taka lluvia tienen. Forever shorty they kill him not.
asked you, Mr. Chairman in Burger
King, anyone
could have been more explicit, more emphatic, more dogmatic
in rectifying an idea than this.
The idea of a Christian president that Christ died for the sins He was crucified.
I said, can anyone be more emphatic than this? Impossible. The only one who can afford to do that is God Almighty, the omnipotent, omniscient Lord of the universe. He is the only one and the Muslim in response to that he says Armen said,
we believe and we affirm
he needs no proof. The Muslim needs no proof. This is the book of God in the book of God has stated the case fully one verse completes the whole thing.
But our Christian
they would say look
Ready to get this one? This is in the Quran. Where does the Quran come from? We say look, it was revealed by God Almighty to the Holy Prophet Mohamed Salah.
Since they do not believe in the Quran, we are now forced
to have reports to the rainbow.
As Allah commands us to do, he tells us that men will make claim
exaggerated claims, tell them, tell them how to grow Hana. So produce your evidence in quantum sodic. Even if you are speaking the truth, let us have a look at your certificate.
And they have produced it they have what the Holy Bible in 2000 different languages.
I can't imagine a person an Arab, or Gujarati or a Bengali, Indonesian, whoever you are, they have a Bible in your language. So look, my Bible says the Bible says that my Bible says this. My Bible says that. So well. Let's have a look at the Bible.
So there is a chapter
in the Bible,
specially dedicated to the subject, the subject of the resurrection of Jesus.
If there is no death, there is no resurrection. If there's no crucifixion, there is no resurrection.
And that chapter happens to be in the New Testament. First Corinthians chapter 15. in quite a few Bibles, the heading given to the chapter is the resurrection of Christ.
In it, Paul, St. Paul,
in verse three, he says,
Christ died for our sin, according to the Scriptures, was for was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures
was 14.
He said, If Christ is not risen from the dead, our preaching is vain. Your faith is vain. That's what he's telling the other Christians, that means we have nothing. If this thing didn't happen, that Christ died and he was resurrected, then everything is hot. A when the American would say garbage, everything is garbage. If this thing didn't happen,
then in verse number 35.
Paul poses the question
he poses a rhetorical question is not asking you or me.
He said, someone may rationally ask, how to the dead rise again? And what end with what kind of body will they come?
And in verse 42, he answers the answers his own question
was 43 of the same chapter. So use fi Hawaiian in where you come from Medina, sick it is, so
the dead body, it is so it is buried, it is sown in dishonor, and it is raised in guarding
us at our feet that thin by your feet, who
it is soon is buried the dead body, it is sown in weakness and is raised in power
user giesemann helwani while eucommia just a man ruhani young
and it is soon buried a physical body and it is raised a spiritual body.
I would like to know if there's anybody here, you know who needs a dictionary to understand that it is so buried a physical body and it is raised a spiritual body. I'm asking do you need a dictionary for that?
Do you need a DD for that already that for that to explain to you know, simple statement choose English or Queen's English from the King James Version.
Now what Paul says about this resurrection,
that would be a spiritual body. He's only confirming what Jesus Christ had already said to his disciples, to the Jews. But Paul didn't have it before him, because he was about the first person to start writing these episodes of faith. And he wrote 14 different episodes, 14 different books of the New Testament, more than 50%.
He didn't know. He didn't hear.
He didn't read. But Jesus Christ had said the very same thing. We read that in the Gospel of St. Luke, St. Luke chapter 20.
was 36
the Jews came to Jesus, they were always coming to him with poses and rigorous. They were trying to test it all, make a fool of him, Master must be paid tribute to Caesar or not master this woman, we found that in the quarter in the act, what must be due to her master this master that we were always trying to put him to the test. Now they come to him with another riddle.
A puzzle,
said, Master Rabbi in the Hebrew language, there was a woman among us. And that woman had seven husbands, according to a Jewish practice, if one brother died, and he will leave the left no offspring than the second brother takes up the wife. And when he fails the third, and when he failed, the fourth and the fifth, and the sixth, and the seventh, seven guys had this one woman.
But there was no problem. Because it was all one by one.
Now they're asking Jesus, that at the resurrection, which guy is gonna have her because they all had her here.
So if you have here, you want to have a
picture of Jesus, which guy is gonna have on the other side, because seven guys will wake up simultaneously or some one time. And when they wake up one time they see this woman, every visit my wife, my dear, my darling, and there'll be a war in heaven between the seven brothers sec game, it's mine. It's mine, will be war in heaven between the seven brothers. So they want to learn from Jesus, which guy is going to have her on the other side?
In answer to that, Jesus says, neither shall they die anymore. Meaning, once they are resurrected, they will be immortalized. This is a mortal body, which is mortal needs, food, shelter, clothing, sex rest. Without these things. No Englishman left, no Pakistani left, no umbilical left finish,
said that body will be an immortal body, no food, no shelter, no clothing, no sex, no rest of the time that you know
for the equal to the ages, for they are equal and to the ages, meaning that they will be in July,
they will be spiritualized. They will be spiritual creatures, they will be spirit.
For their equal angle, the angels and the children of God for such are the children of the resurrection, such spirits. Luke, chapter 20, verse 36, Paul says that the result of Basel spirits, Jesus says their bodies will be spirits. I say the resurrected bodies will be spirits.
I want to find a single dissenting voice
in this great hall, to say that they believe that the resurrected bodies will not be spiritualize it will be physical resurrection.
before I proceed,
I want to get 100% acceptance of each and every one of you that the resurrection will be spiritual, as Paul says it will be spiritual as Jesus says, not this body.
You all agree? Is there any dissenting voice? Yes. What do you say?
Right? I will answer that.
So we go into that upper room,
as Mr. Glover has quoted. That's Luke, chapter 24 verse 36.
see Jesus walks into that upper room.
according to the Scriptures, I'm only reading
the Bible what it says I'm not reading the Quran. I don't say the Quran says the Quran says that for you know, some Imam has Allah said such and such a law or brother quoted scripture.
He quoted Luke chapter 24, verse 36.
So I said, Let's go to that, to satisfy him.
That the resurrected bodies is just the exact opposite. What Paul said. What Jesus is telling you there is the exact opposite is the exact opposite of what Jesus told you.
You see, Jesus walks into that upper room where they had the Last Supper
after his alleged crucifixion, and he goes in and he wishes his disciples, shalom welcome in Hebrew.
In Arabic Salam aleikum. In English, he's pmtu when he says, peace be unto you, his disciples were terrified.
So I'm asking why were they terrified? Because when you meet your
Master, your uncle, your grandfather, the Arabs and the Jews, you might have seen some of us performing. We embrace one another, which is one another. The Jews did the same. So instead of embracing Jesus and kissing him, as the Jews and the Arabs, do, they terrify.
I want to know why.
It's very unusual. When you meet your master, your style, your guru, whatever it is, why should you be terrified?
So Luke tells us that they were afraid, because they thought he was a spirit. I'm only coating
they thought he was a spirit. They thought, so I'm asking.
Did you look like a spirit? Did you look like a spirit? And in 40 years, no Christian would the name has told me Yes, not one.
As a didn't look like a spirit. This is known as a luxury. They think the man is a spirit when it didn't look like a spirit.
You will have your time at question time.
At question time, you'll be given the opportunity
geek wire
toe and you are free to ask him what you like.
This was a rhetorical question. I wasn't asking you. I was only historically speaking.
So I said why should they think the man is a spirit when he didn't look like a spirit?
So the answer is
that the disciples of Jesus, the disciples of Jesus, they had heard
they had heard that the master was hanging on the cross. They had heard that they'd given up the ghost you know that he had died. They had heard that now he's dead and buried for three days. Amen. Such a reputation. You expect him to be stinking in his grave.
Such a person when you see measured Yeah, terrified.
is a natural reaction because Mark chapter 14 was 50. He tells us that is the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus. Father, alcohol, Jammie boo boo at all for Sue came and fled. They will not they they will not eyewitnesses are your witnesses to the happenings on I'm asking the English man. That's all mean all in your language? said yes. Is the Zulu in my country does bomb taming donkey in your language is, as you Africa, this element element in your language? He said yes. The school living fully in your language
so that they were not there. That's what Mark tells us. So because the knowledge was from here say they had heard about a man dead and buried for three days. They expect him to be stinking in his grave. So when you see such a man, naturally, you're terrified.
So Jesus wants to assure them that is not what they're thinking. The thinking has come back from the dead, resurrected. So he says
Zoo Elijah. Elijah says Behold my hands and my feet in me an aha that it is I myself and the same fellow man damn fools. What are you afraid of?
Who's Sunni wanzhou handle me and see for me, less Allahu LA. For a spirit has no flesh and bone as we see me and they failed him. And they believe not for joy. I'm only reading
and they believe not for joy means that they were overjoyed and wondered what happened man with other mammals.
So he says in the come Hakuna Tom, have you had anything to eat for an hour? Whoo hoo, just a min Summit in Washington min Shahada azulene de la Cala pueden. And they gave him a piece of bro fish and a honeycomb. And he took it any act in the very sight
to prove what
that is resurrected.
To prove that you are flesh and bones. You eat food. What is he proving that he is a spiritual body as to the needs of a spiritual body. Paul says no. The resurrected well every spiritual Jesus says I'm physical.
I'm asking the English man because I understand English better than other languages. As a Please tell me in your language. If somebody tells you that because I have flesh and bones meet me
I'm not a spirit. I'm not a ghost. I'm not a spook. Is that what it means in your language? I said, because I have flesh and bones. I'm not a spirit. I'm not a ghost. I'm not a spook. Is that what it means in your language? He says, yes. I said, in other words, he's telling you that the body that you're seeing, it is not a translated body. It is not a metamorphosed body, it is not a resurrected body.
Because you will be given a chance, because the resurrected words get spiritualize, who says so as as Paul, who says so as a Jesus?
Now you contradict them contradict Paul? Paul, you got it all wrong. Now, Paul had a reason for believing that Jesus was resurrected spiritually.
The reason is that he was under Damascus Road.
He was persecuting the early Christians.
And on the Damascus Road, he sees a vision.
Great light. And you hear the voice. In the book of Acts, chapter nine, verse seven, Chapter 22, verse nine, Chapter 26, verse 14, you read it by this incident.
In this vision, he sees a great light and he has a voice, calling him in the Hebrew tongue. Saul, Saul, why persecutest Not me, why kickers myself against the pics.
So so that was his name. But of course, our Latin as Brethren, the Greeks, they turned it into Paul, St. Paul's Cathedral, it should be same Saul. Saul was his main, but you know, for complexes that people suffer from subject people. They change, Paul Saul to Paul, rich, Simon, Kiefer's to Peter z. However, that is not the point here. The fact is, he tells us that the people that were with him,
they heard the voice, but they didn't see anybody. So this was the vision.
That poll had either
hallucination or a genuine vision. I'm not contesting a genuine vision, but it was intangible. It was spiritual. It was not physical meetings. I can check my hands. And you can feel me That is me. No, no. It was something that was
he appeared as he says, He appeared, and to Peter.
For testifies, Jesus appeared to Peter, he appeared unto the 12, he appeared unto the 500, he appeared to James, And last of all, he appeared and to me,
appeared, appeared, appeared in others is not a physical meeting. It is not a factual solid meeting, it was not a tangible meeting. This was something that he saw spiritually, and he imagined that what he had seen spiritually, all the others have similarly seen spiritually. So from that he concluded that Jesus died and was resurrected spiritually. And on that thing, the whole of the 14 books are based
on a spiritual resurrection of Jesus, with Jesus Christ contradicts Jesus Himself, He contradicts that and that same man, flesh and blood handle me and see, I'm not what you are thinking, you're thinking, I have come back from the dead, I am resurrected. I am not that.
And
we find that Jesus, it says in the Bible, and because of St. JOHN, Chapter 20, verse 19, that he came, he just didn't appear in the upper room. He came john 2019.
Thank you very much.
Then in the book of Acts,
chapter one, verse three.
Again, the beloved Luke, the physician, he testifies,
Allah Xena, Allah whom ada nafsa who, hi Jen Rivera, Athena Kathy Rocky. And he showed himself to these people, and by prove by many convincing proofs, he gave many convincing proofs that he was Li
ALV li in Greek.
My brother
Clark can confirm the word there is in Zed in Xin means ally.
Not resurrected. The word is his ally.
Then in March chapter 16, verse 11, we
Read. And they had heard that he was Li Xin
XIN LI,
and had been seen by her. But they believe not
that Mary Magdalene saw him, but when she told testify to the others, they believed not what they didn't believe that he was alive or not they had seen the ghost of Jesus. If they had said that thing, the ghost of Jesus, anybody wouldn't have believed. Because in those days, you know, ghosts went into pigs, the November 2000, pigs were destroyed, one hit
the spirit, when do the pigs 2000 pigs, they ran down the hill, and they all got round. They saw spirits going to trees and drying them up, they found spirits still in stone.
So spirit was not something unusual to them. But they're not talking about spirits. They say he said that he is alive. And they believe not. The will to from Emmaus, when they return to the upper room, and when they testify to the others, that he is alive, and they believe not only quoting, they are saying that is alive, Mary Magnus is alive. Luke says that his ally
and our brethren, this No, he's resurrected, he's resurrect the word there is alive in your book in every version. Jehovah's Witnesses this Li your Roman Catholic versions is alive. Your King James Williams is alive. Your RSP is alive. There is not a Bible where the word there is a desert.
The preaching is the preacher preacher says he is resurrected. So they create a word. They concoct a word and they come second. It
is very soothing. Interesting, he is alive. This is resurrected, he's resurrected.
But the scripture testifies again and again. The angels when we the Magdalene went to the tomb, and when they found not his body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. Luke chapter 24, verse 25.
I'm sorry, 24 was 23. That is alive. Two men, Luke 24, four and five was four and five. So two men that stood by where the subaqua told me women, why siki the living among the dead.
You're looking for a life of luxury, or in a cemetery. What's wrong with you? He's alive.
And in this book that's given to you tonight. More than 30 different reasons are given to you
from the scriptures and that Jesus was alive, alive, alive, alive.
It's your privilege to take it home. Read it, master it and share this with your fellow Christian Brothers. And brothers and sisters.
Now Jesus Christ, he had already foretold
he had foretold what was going to happen.
And the clearest, simplest prophecy you find in the Gospel of St. Maarten St. Matthew chapter 12, verse 3839 40.
The Jews come to him again
with another person. Another another request. They say, Yamaha limo norito anara minca. I
am quoting this in Arabic. So my Arabic brother in math know that there is an Arabic Bible. They have 11 different versions for you, for the Arabs, 11 different versions, different dialects.
You have no excuse whatsoever. They are. Get the Arabic Bible, master these and talk to your Christian Arabs in the Lebanon in Egypt. Talk to them here I'm reading it from the Arabic Bible. So you will be able to catch it quicker than the English that are going to translate into suyama Lemuria Anamika. I said Master, we would have assigned of the we want you to choose a miracle to convince us that you are the man we are waiting for our Messiah.
But he answered and said unto them, Gielan shibori Ron Rafa second yaku is
an evil and adulterous generation secret after assign you an image is a miracle. What a horrible people you are. Can't you listen to what I'm talking?
We're also gonna have a chance, my brother, brother, you will also have the opportunity if you know me. We will give you a chance you will have eternity. Please, please. When
you get the Bible, then open the Bible. Matthew, chapter 12, verse 3839 40. If you don't understand English, see the good go
Jesus's Voila.
Allahu Allah, and they shall no sign be given unto it. numancia
illa ayah you Nana Nabhi accept the sign of the prophet Jonah, as accept the miracle of universalis Allah
Allahu kumbhakarna you
fruity salata, Yamin masala, Salah Lin for us, Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale in the belly of the whale, hatha, just like that. Hakata just like that. hackers are in sunny, so shall the Son of man be feeback mill rd in the heart of the earth. philosophia Minh was Allah Allah Allah for his junos, three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the belly of the earth.
That's the only sign only miracle. He says he's prepared to give this evil and adulterous generation he had performed many miracles. We Muslims have no hesitation in accepting the miracles of Jesus that he gave back to the dead by God's permission, he will heal those born by and the lepers by God's permission.
If you say he healed blind by demons as a writer, except it says, you know the woman with issues she was bleeding for continuously. For years, Jesus Roshi touched the helm of Jesus and she was healed. He dried up the fig tree from the very roots. according to the Scriptures, he killed those 2000 pigs.
But now whatever you say, I'm prepared to accept but here he tells the Jews no sign, no Medusa except one. And that is the mortgages are the sign the miracle of Universalist Allah? They call him Jonah. So I am asking, what was the sign of Jonah?
What was his miracle?
To find that you have to go to the book of Jonah. And there is a book in the Bible, of some 66 books of the Protestants and 73 of the Roman Catholics. There are 73 books inside the Bible.
In the 73, and the 66 books of the Protestants and the Catholics, there is a book, this is the book, I reproduced it page. I enlarge it, Book of Jonah, this is the book for short chapters. So you, it's a bit difficult for you to go out and look for a page. I made it easy for people in my meetings, as everybody will Book of Jonah present, because there's only one page. And it won't take you five minutes, two minutes to read this.
But you don't have to go there.
Every child, Jewish Christian, or Muslim knows about the story of Jonah, Jonah and the whale. Everybody knows the junos the Christian knows and the Muslim knows, you know, Salah, Salah, and the fish
who doesn't know.
So I said, Look, if I repeat the story to you,
you will be able to confirm what I'm going to tell you now. About Jonah. Jonah was sent to the ninevites a city of Nineveh over 100,000 people. God Almighty commands him, he says go to Nineveh and warn the people that they must repent in sackcloth and ashes, meaning they must humble themselves before the law.
But Jonah, instead of going to Nineveh, he goes to Java, modern Java. He goes to Java and he takes a boat and is running away. Why? Because he's despondent. He says, you know, these materialistic people advocate an adulterous generation of his time.
And we can address this generation of his time, they will not happen to the message. So he presumptious, he runs away he takes about running away at sea, there is a storm. And according to the superstitions of these people,
anyone who runs away from his masters command researcher, Toma, let's see. So they began to question we can be responsible. So Jonah realizes that as a prophet of God, he was a soldier of God, and as a soldier of God, he had no right to do things presumptuously. God says, go to Nineveh, you have to go to Nineveh.
So he is the guilty party. He's running away from his masters command. So he tells the people he says, Look, I am the guilty man, and God Almighty is after my blood and he wants to kill me. And in the process of seeing the boat and you're innocent people you will die.
It will be better for you. If you take me and you throw me overboard. He makes a manly comeback. He's not a coward like you and me.
Why should you innocent people suffer for my guilt, threw me overboard, and it'll be all right for you.
They say, Look, man, you're such a good man, perhaps, you know, praying up and down like us. And you know, visiting God for help. is such a good man, such a holy man, such a pious man. Surely, you know, you couldn't be guilty of any such things. So they said, Look, we have our own system of finding out right from wrong, which is forecasting of lots like head or tail, like throwing the dice. And according to that system, it came to the turn of Jonah, that Jonah was the guilty man. So they took him and they threw him overboard.
I'm reading the book of Jonah. They threw him overboard. Now I'm asking you all the questions.
That when they threw Jonah overboard, was he dead? Or was he alive? But before you answer this answer I want from you. But before you answer, I want to help you. I don't want you to make a mistake.
This is Jonah had volunteered. He says through me. So if a man volunteers, you don't have to strangle him before three. You agree? If a man volunteers, you don't have to break his arm or limb before throwing him.
Throw me if he resisted. It would be different, but he's not. He says through me. So when they threw him overboard, please answer me all of you. Was he did or was he alive? Like, did you get no prize for that? It was a very easy question.
A fish comes in bubbles in the fish, gobbles it up. There are li
li
from the fish's belly. He prays to God for help. Deaf people pray, do they know so he was a little louder. Ally.
three days and three nights a fish takes him around the ocean. There are ally ally. Third day vomits on the seashore, there are li li
li li li is a miracle of a miracle of America. When you throw a man into a raging sea, you're to die. If he died, no miracle.
A fish gobbles a man here to die.
If he died, no miracle.
three days and three nights suffocation and heat in the wage bill with his belly, you have to die.
If he died, no miracle.
If he didn't die, if he didn't die, it's America. If he didn't die, it's a miracle of America of America. The man is surviving where he would have been dead.
So what did Jesus say? Is it for us? Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale in the belly of the whale. How was Jonah did our ally? ally?
Please, please, please.
Would you please brothers we don't like at all these emotional gestures, led the speaker continue his lecture.
So the answer is the man is alive. three days and three nights is a lie continuously. And Jesus said For as Jonah was social system of manby, what happened to Jonah is going to happen to me, Jonah is alive. I'm asking the Christian world 1000 200 million Christians. I'm asking them.
Jesus and
Jesus in the subaqua for three days and three nights. Was he dead? Or was he Li? Dead? That's the right answer. Jesus is dead. Jonah is alive.
Is that in your language? I'm asking is that like Joe? Now unlike Jonah, in your language, in your English, I want to know
Jonah is alive for three days and three nights. Jesus is dead for three days and three nights in the English language I want to know very simple question. Is that dead? Or is it like or is it unlike? Unlike what did Jesus say? He will be like Jonah. And the Christian will say he was unlike Jonah. So I'm asking them who is speaking the truth. You are Jesus.
This is this is a natural reaction. This is not this is a natural reaction. If a person appreciates, you know what he said and if you don't respond, they might think that these are all dummies sitting here. There is about at times you have
So, you see my brother, my dear brothers and sisters, I am only reading the Christian scriptures as they are. I am not added adding anything into them, nor am I taking anything out. I only show you So look, this is what Jesus said. And this is how you find that instead of fulfilling the prophecy, this is being fulfilled in reverse.
So the clever man, we meet missionaries, they tell us that no, no, no Mr. D that you see Jesus was emphasizing the time factor.
This It was a time factor. You see, he uses the word three four times, is that for us, Jonah was three days and three nights social the Son of man be three days and three nights. So he's emphasizing the time factor.
I said, Look, there is nothing miraculous about a time factor. Whether a man is in the tomb for three days, three hours, three years, three weeks. That is not a miracle. The miracle is that you expect a man to die and he doesn't die.
That is a miracle. There's no drowning man clutching at straws. Drowning women do the same. Somehow now I can't let go. Easy salvation. You have got your own easy salvation. Christ died for your sins. So I said Now look, when was Christ crucified? So the whole Christian world tells me on Good Friday, in my country, we have a public holiday called Good Friday in African.
Good Friday. The Masuda people, Lesotho, this common great, Good Friday, Zambia, Swaziland, every Christian nation, Britain, France, Germany, each and every Christian nation, Commonwealth. Good Friday. So I'm asking what makes Good Friday. Good. is the Christ died for our sins. So he was crucified on a Good Friday? He said yes, I said morning or afternoon.
So they say in the afternoon, as a How long was he on the cross? Some say three hours, some say six hours. I won't argue whether you say three or six. I agree. I said, you know, the Jews were in a hurry to put him up on the cross. You know why? Because of the general public. This man Jesus was a hero to the masses to the masses. He had fed as our brother said, just now 5000 people with a few pieces of fish and a few pieces of bread,
your reputation spirits 5000 people at the free food.
Your reputation says another occasion another 3000 people. And he healed the blind and the lepers any quick and the dead. Man was such a reputation. If his life was in danger, you will find the whole mentioned might be aroused, they could get Italian.
So they felt that quick as possible. You know, we must get rid of the man who Jesus. So they had a midnight trial, which doesn't happen in jewelry, they did it early in the morning, they take him to pilot pilots is not my kettle of fish, take him to heroin. Heroin says I'm not interested take him back to pilot.
These things only happen in films that in one hour, you can show the life of a man in one hour. It doesn't happen in real life, as if pilot had nothing to do with sitting there waiting. And Harold had nothing to do. He was waiting. And when they return back, his pilot is still waiting. It doesn't happen in real life. But if you say it happened that way, right? I agree.
So quickly, quickly, quickly, put him up on the cross, according to the Scriptures, and we are told that they managed it. But as much as they were in a hurry to put him up, they were also in a hurry to bring him down. You know why? Because of the Sabbath. Judas people do choose, you're in a hurry to put up the man and not in a hurry to bring him down. Because of the religious group versus the absence set on Friday, the Sabbath starts and they were told in the book of Deuteronomy, there's a demo secret that nobody is hanging on the cross on the Sabbath day that they led me not defiled with the Lord thy God given the for an inheritance. So to fulfill that down, down, down, and I'm told
them manage that also.
And they gave him a billion bucks, like what we saw, and they put 100 100 Americans around him and they put a whining clause around him and they put him into the saboteur, not a big room chamber. They put him in there.
So I'm asking, by the time they put him in, according to your story, according to your book is already evening. And they agree, because it takes two hours to give a bath and take about another two hours to put that on Monday and put the wrapping
as is already evening. So Friday night. He's supposed to be in the gray. He's supposed to be in the gray. Mark my words and watch my finger. Can you see my finger? Yes, Friday night.
He's supposed to be in the gray. So the Christian agrees as a Saturday day, he's still supposed to be in the gray.
said yes, Saturday night, he's still supposed to be in the gray.
This is right. Sunday morning, the first day of the week, when Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb, the tomb is empty.
is right. The tomb is empty. How many nights and how many days? Look, before you answer, I want to make it easy for you. Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. How many nights and how many days?
Two nights in a day? What did you say for us? Jonah was three days and three nights social the son of melby, three days and three nights? I'm asking, does this look like that?
So failed again a second time. Look, what are you doing to this mighty messenger of God?
These are the same the only sign he gave for is to say that I'm the Messiah, the only sign like me coming along, you know, claiming some crown jewels
from your you know that castle, crown jewels. It was supposed to be given to me the only one to verify that I'm gonna do that. So I said I'm gonna do that. Those crown jewels are supposed to be given to me, you know, made out by King George the fourth. In that my name was there.
So I said this crown jewels? I said yes. So what's the proof? Oh, I said I have my passport in my pocket my identity. Yes. Can you have a look? So I show the person my identity and in my address, they see my photo with all this. What is written there
is written by Mr. Foster.
Mr. Buta.
Mr. Callahan, will they give me the passer?
As long as me? It's me. Yes. But you said your passport, your passport, your photo and your name.
And that's the only thing I took a look. You know, I we had to do all this other thing. I had another reason. Please don't waste my time. Please. You said you have Mr. D there. And I wanted your identity. I see your picture. All right. But the name is something else.
I can't get the past. You agree. I can't get the person. Jesus Christ puts all his eggs in one basket.
He said the only sign I'm going to give you is that of universalism. And the Christians he failed twice. He failed twice in just fulfilling one prophecy.
So if I was a Jew,
if I was a Jew, I can accept him as my Messiah. As the man he gave the only proof he gave me failed twice. So if my people killed him, if they killed him 2000 years ago, as he deserved it, the guy was an imposter. But as a Muslim, I believe that he's the Messiah. The Quran testify that he is a Messiah, Merci, merci subnormal, Yama, Messiah, Christ, Jesus, the son of Mary we accept. But if I was a Jew, I would be forced to reject. As I look, the man didn't even fulfill. You know, the first one, he failed and he fails again a second time, and you say he's a true man of God.
So
the Christian is in a predicament.
But your learned man, you see the Anglican bishops, the Anglican bishop.
They have come to realize the fallacy of their business.
The Anglican Bishop Look, I'm reading from one of my Sunday papers or one of my newspapers, this line from London.
You know, one of your television people, they carried out a survey of the Anglican bishops. And I'm reading it says more than half of England's Anglican bishops say Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus was
finished.
What was the difference? What was the fight all about between the Muslim and the Christian? The most fundamental thing that was dividing the Muslim and the Christian was the divinity of Christ. The Christians say that Jesus is God and the Muslim said he is not God.
And now you can come along question time, Alonzo you
see the Anglican bishops more than 50% they are telling their congregation that you don't have to believe that means you can become a Muslim. Now. Look, the dividing line is removed.
What is holding you back? salvation. How do you get salvation? Christ died for your sins as a man or as a god?
Did he die as a man or did he die as above
If he, if he died as a man, one man can carry the sins of the world common sense a lot of prophets die. Jesus says to the Jews, so you kill the prophets from righteous able to Zechariah you kill the prophets. In the verses that were read, this is the Jews, the impossible thing that they were asking, isn't asking the Prophet miracles is that they were asking for greater miracles from Moses, they wanted to see God face to face.
These issues now, more than 50% of the bishops paid servants of the Anglican Church, they're telling the congregation Jesus, you don't have to be if you don't have to believe, join hands with us. That's what we're trying to tell you about 1400 years, we are telling you like
the Quran says lack of capital is in Italian allowed masuku Maria, Whosoever says that Jesus Christ, the son of marriage, God, they are making Cofer is an act of blasphemy against God. So what Allah mercy but Christ said you have an Israeli
law Buddha law, wishing Allah beaver a boon with my Lord and your Lord in a human usually Billa whoever will associate anyone with a law pocket have Ramallah agenda agenda for them.
In the fight of Helen with a dwelling place Ramallah Solomon
for the wrongdoers will be no one to help. So our Christian Anglican Brethren, they have given us a hand of friendship of brotherhood, take that hand
the opening the doors for you and you're sleeping.
Take their hand, they tell you further about the resurrection.
You know, because the death and resurrection of Jesus knew Christianity that's opposed.
If Christ is not risen from the dead, instead of a preaching is vain, your faith is vain.
So the poll of 31 out of England's 39 bishops, that I worked at a 70% 70% of the bishops Anglican Bishop
shows that many of them think that Christ miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible. So like fairy tales,
all these activities 70% of the Anglican bishops are saying that now 70%
I'm asking that we say Rama, Cthulhu, Rama, Salah, they didn't kill him and they didn't crucify him. So if they didn't kill him, they didn't crucify, there's no resurrection. Whatever happened, there is no resurrection. And if there's no resurrection, there's no Christianity.
It's about time.
My dear brothers and sisters, let me as time is running out fast. Let me end with another example from the Bible.
You see, it was Sunday morning, the first day of the week.
Sunday morning, the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb of Jesus. I'm reading the Gospels in john chapter 19 1920.
Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb of Jesus. I am asking, Why did she go there?
Why does the gospel say she went to anoint him?
I say the Hebrew word for annoying is masa ha the Arabic also masaharu the root word which means to refer to massage to anoint. Now tell me with the Jews massage dead bodies after three days, do they?
The answer is no. We Muslims We are the closest to the Jews. In our ceremonial law. Do Muslims massage dead bodies after three days? The answer is no. I said you Christians do you massage dead bodies after three days? The answer is no.
There is a Why would this woman want to go and massage a dead rotting body after three days? Because within three hours within three hours rigor mortis sets in
rigor mortis sets in
Islam
to respond. No response at all. Would you please keep quiet?
Please, please. I know it hurts.
I know it hurts. You say because the foundation The ground is being taken away from under your feet. And if you feel in desperation
I can appreciate that by God. I appreciate your feelings.
That thing?
Sunday morning, Mary Magdalene
goes to the bathroom. And she finds a tomb empty. I'm asking why does she go there? So we are told she went to MIT.
When she finds a tomb empty, she starts to cry
is a disappointment. She expected to find Jesus day.
So, she starts to cry, she sees the empty tomb and the whining she's inside and the stones removed.
So Jesus was watching her from wherever he was not from heaven. But from this earth. You see, this tomb was a privately owned property belonging to Joseph avari Mati a very rich, influential disciple of Jesus, who had carved out of a rock, a big roomy chamber with Jim Bishop, one of your authorities describes as five feet wide by seven feet high by 15 feet deep with the ledger Ledger's inside
around this tomb was the man's vegetable garden.
Now, don't tell me that this Jew was so generous. He was planting vegetables five miles out of Jerusalem, for other people, sheep and goats to crease upon. Surely he must have got his garden squatters, and perhaps his country home, where he went for the weekend with his family. Jesus is there, he sees this woman, you know who she is, and you know why she's there. So he walks up to her, and he finds a claim.
So he says, woman, why we first home seekers, tau,
by Ukraine for who you're looking for? I'm asking, Why does he ask such a silly question?
Doesn't he know who she's looking for? Doesn't he know that she's disappointed? not finding him?
Of course he knows. Then why is he asking such a silly question? As it is not a silly question. He's actually pulling her leg as the Englishman says, you know, metaphorically playing the fools. He's still got the sense of humor. He's been through an Odile according to the Scriptures, but it's still got the sense of humor. This is woman why we Purcell whom segesta she supposing him to be the gardener? I said, Why that she supposes a gardener do restaurateur bodies look like gardeners today?
And what he said was a gardener. So because he's disguised as a gardener, why is he disguised as a gardener? I said he was afraid of the Jews. Why is he afraid of the Jews? Because I say he didn't die. And he didn't conquer that.
Because if he had died and he were conquered death, there is no need to be afraid anymore. Why not? Because the resurrected bodies can die twice Who says so?
So the Bible, what does it say? It says it is ordain unto all men wants to die. And after that the judgment you can die twice. So she's opposing him to the gardener. So Sir, if you have taken him hands, tell me where have you laid it? to rest to relax to recuperate
so that I might take him away? One woman carrying away cops. Can you imagine a frill dress like a super American woman you know, the Superwoman type of woman, you know, carrying him like a bundle of straw and taking weight bearing him as would be great.
If there was a great carrying is one thing, but bearing in Caesar dumped him in a hole. Does it make sense? No. So she's opposing him to the guy now, sir, if you have taken hinge Tell me where have you laid him to rest to relax, to recuperate so that I might alone might take him away? The joke is gone too far. So Jesus says Mary, when he said, Mary, she recognized that this is Jesus from this incarnation. And she wanted to grab him as the Jews would do to pay respects. So he says touch me not. I said, why not? is a bundle of electricity at Dynamo that if she touches him, she'll get electrocuted? No, then why not? Is it because it hurts.
Whatever reason it has you go and grab a man who has been through an ordeal as brother flytrap described, you know, the nails and flogging and all that a newborn embracing you're gonna kill him. So she says, Mary says touch me not for I am not yet ascended under my father. I have not yet ascended into my father. In other in the language of the Jews in the idiom of the Jew. He's saying I'm not dead yet.
Now, as a chairman, ladies and gentlemen,
my brother, Floyd Clark, has been ingesting himself. See, I feel he was unjust to himself. Because this format was made by me. As if whoever speaks first gets 10 minutes in the end.
The second speaker has one hour continuously, the choice is yours. You take the choice, had he given me the choice of speaking first, he would have an opportunity of refuting each and every one of these but now, I pity him in 10 minutes. Now what what he's going to do
What is going to end this entangle? What has been entangled now? What has been through what what it is? I pity my brother, you know, good friend, I love him. But as of now you have been if you asked for my advice, I would have told you let me speak first. So you have an hour to refute me, and then I can remember him if it was possible, but
there is a way that is required from each and every one that is here tonight. It is not a question of who is right and who is wrong. You can see where truth lies. What the Muslim says Rama aloo masala boo that they didn't kill him and they didn't crucify him and crucify means to kill by hanging or impaling on the cross to say whatever things happen, according to your records, this he was not killed, and he was not crucified. And the verdict is that if the Jews were in the dark for the murder of Jesus Christ, that they are not guilty for attempted murder, yes, but not for murder.
Before I introduce Professor Floyd again, for the 10 minutes, I'd like to make an appeal for both Muslim and Christian audience and say this, it may be useful and important to think it may be useful to interact or have information or intellectual thinking. But it is just as important to manifest the noble and lofty teaching of boss, Christ and Muhammad peace be upon them in our own behaviors. So I would ask the Muslim audience never to interrupt Professor Floyd or inject anything from the floor as he presented his full piece in the beginning. And I would ask my Christian Brethren, to observe the same also during the question and answer period. Thank you, professor.
I hope that you will accede to the request of our Chairman. I really am embarrassed because
there was no interruption whatever of my speaking. And I know most of the audience are not fully in accord with what I said.
And
I hope that you will give to Mr. D that the courtesy that you gave to me
as
brother data was sharing with us his study of the Scriptures, I'm delighted that he's studying First Corinthians 15. just praying that the light one day will break.
There are three or four points now. I'm not here to debate. Mr. Data had invited me to this program and I was concurring with him. We're not here to do battle with one another. But this was his request. He said, we want to talk about the Bible. You do the best you can do, I'll do the best we can do and then we'll leave it to God.
As to what happened.
I believe that a wise choice, I appreciate the courtesy extended.
I would invite my friend to further study.
First of all, in the matter of reference to Mary touching Jesus.
Brother, Ahmed, you need to check back with your Greek.
The word octo, the word to touch used in that text has one meaning and the active voice and another meeting and the middle.
And the active it means to touch us, brother Ahmed was talking about. But in the middle it means to claim and is used in First Corinthians seven of the embrace of people in a marriage relationship. Mary had grabbed him around the knees and was clinging to him to keep him and Jesus said you do do not cling to me. I have not yet ascended unto my father.
I am fully in the card with all that brother Ahmed said about Jesus coming back alive from the dead. Everything he says is true. Jesus was alive in the body
and manifest being alive in the body and all of his appearance.
Following the crucifixion
but what brother Ahmed still does not understand is that when Jesus said flesh and bones He did not say flesh and blood.
He gave his blood when he died upon the cross and He did not miraculously receive but man.
He came into the upper room in a bloodless body, evidenced by the fact that the holes in his hands and feet and side we're not losing blood out on the carpets.
And the distinction between the alive and the resurrection brother Ahmed needs to study further this point.
Jesus said that he would lay down his life, he would take it again.
And he would do it and he would come back and be with him, which he did.
But 40 days afterwards he ascended
leaving a physical body behind and ascending in the resurrected body.
And Jesus case occurring 40 days after the crucifixion, and in his words to marry as quoted by Ahmed, I have not yet ascended
and the the sky sins which we have had about the sign of Jonah Ahmed needs to look further into the text also.
When Jesus said, as Jonah was three days and three nights in the earth, the Greek word is their host pair as an D, it does not express a comparison of identical nature.
It is comparing some loose sense of comparison had the author intended and the exact relationship he would have needed to use hosts out toasts, or some such conjunctive adverb.
As to the three days and three nights, Christendom did not celebrate Good Friday for more than 300 years after the coming of Christ when many traditions crept in that were foreign to the New Testament.
The New Testament teaches that there were two Sabbath on high Sabbath and the Sabbath low week co joining, and that Jesus was crucified then on Thursday, not Friday, and his body lay in the tomb over the two days of the sandbar.
Again, I want to thank you for your wonderful courtesy. God bless you, everyone.
While I begin with some remarks as to how we should conduct the question answer session, I would like to ask those who wish to have questions to line up in the front here so that they can use the microphone.
No.
We have about 10 minutes or so for questions. I understand that this is a very limited time. So I would have to be with your permission very strict on this rules. First of all, a question is a question is not a speech or mini speech? You have only a few seconds to put your question directly and to the point number two. If any of you in the audience have more than one question, ask only one so as to give a chance to other brethren. And get back to that in the queue. You may have the chance if there is time allowed.
You'd like again to appeal to old audience, never to interject anything from the floor or comment. Let people ask their questions briefly and the speakers will answer them again. I'd like to insist on that a few seconds. No preliminary comments. Nope luminary comments directly to the question. The first rather please. I'd like to ask both speakers.
Why they didn't mention the fact that there are 49 reference to crucifixion in the new Bible and to the word raised or resurrection in Arabic comma. in all languages, there are more than seven references in front of me to the actual word being raised and why they didn't refer both of them to the fact that external
evidences in history has spoken about the actual crucifixion of Christ by the Roman authorities. Thank you,
with any of the speakers wish to answer first
with regards to the the word risen or resurrected in the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john, not once is the word resurrection used in connection with Jesus that he's erected, not once in the four gospels, there is not a single reference.
No introduction, please get back in the line. And you might have a chance if there is, we have to give just a minute, please, we have to look at behind you and see how many people are waiting, please give a chance to others. Would Professor Floyd wish to comment on that? Briefly Also, please,
please know
until Professor Floyd.
I'm not sure that I heard the question with the disturbance involved. But if I understand the question, it is about the use of the word resurrection. And, of course, the Bible refers both to the fact that Jesus arose on a destiny and that he was alive. And
this is the teaching of Scripture that Jesus was resurrected, and Jesus was alive.
Thank you professional eight. The next question
is to either Floyd or Mr. de de, can you get a bit close to the mic so that everybody can hear you? The question is for both speakers Really? It may sound relevant, but I'm very anxious to know if Jesus has said anything about the coming off, Mohammed, please.
Okay, the question is whether Jesus said anything about the coming of Mohammed, in the chair, I would like to rule that this is not relevant to this specific topic for tonight, if there is a chance after the questions are answered, we might be able to get to that. Thank you the next
lecture that Jesus Christ gave his life for the sins of humanity, and also that, that that is the sort of penalty of sins. If that is true, that simply means that the that the concept of reward and the concept of punishment is lost, then you can go on committing the sin that did nothing to stop it from you. Okay, your question, is that exactly. Professor Clark, please. Mr.
Professor, Professor,
would you repeat it back provided please come to the point, straight forward.
from Professor Clark's lecture, I understand that Jesus Christ gave his life for the sins of humanity. And the second point is that that is sort of penalty of sins. Therefore, it implies that you can keep on committing sins and nothing to stop it from you because the concept of reward and punishment is completely lost if we believe in this thing.
So
as to hit
the gym does. So we're going to change as much as
again, we're having difficulty I'm
old enough to in this sort of thing not to be able to pick up all that is being said about if I understand the question, the question is, if Jesus died for the sins of the world, does that encourage everybody to sin? Is that the question?
Well, we have the definitive answer. Of course, in Romans that's impossible because if a Christian obeys the Lord Jesus Christ,
and his pardon for his sins, the Christian dies to sin.
We are buried therefore, Paul says with baptism threw him into death and life life was Christ was raised from the dead, and and so on. And the Christian cannot continue in sin. If he accepts the blood of Christ because he dies to sinning and that's why it comes to him.
Thank you The next and again briefly unto the points
This is Professor Clark. Um, I refer to Matthew 27 verse 4647. The statement reads le le Lama Subash Tani. And then further on, it says, that is My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? One, just one thing. It's the only verse that is less than the original in Armenia or Greek. Now, that is why it intrigues me. le le llama smashed on the word in Greek because yes is below him. There is no such God and there is no proof anywhere that in that time in the time of Jesus, that element, my God, because why did the jump scares me? No speeches, no many speeches, not limited hours, put the question directly. The question is, then it goes on to say then some of the bystanders here they and
hearing this said, What is this man saying? Is he meaning Elijah that needs the Jews didn't understand what element again, I have to warn you before cutting out your question directly in one sentence. What is the question? The question is my proposition is le does not mean my God, le is a name because I've asked synagogues, and I've asked several professors of Hebrew, and they certainly can be able to call a name of a person. Okay, Professor Clark.
My understanding, we said
we would have to two more questions. Only two more? Again, I think the question is
definitely difficult in this context to answer. Jesus is quoting from an old testament passage. And in that Old Testament passage, we then can understand what Jesus was talking about. And I would recommend that the party who has the question just turn to that passage in the Old Testament, and I think it perfectly answers your question.
Thank you The next question, and I hope there will be no need to cut off any questions, please.
I first would like to thank Mr. deedat, for his very excellent and intelligent exposition of the question. And now the question to ask Professor club
about what he thinks of the
nature of Jesus and whether he was God or the Son of God, or the Messenger of God. Because in his talk, he said that when Jesus was about to bring Lazarus, Lazarus from the dead, he said, Thank you, so that you may believe, so that they may believe that you have sent me he's talking to God.
And also, on the cross in professional clubs. If physicians say, Father in my hands, I commit my soul. Now, isn't that enough evidence from the professional club to convince him that the relationship between Jesus and God is the relationship between God and the messenger? Okay, thank you for the question was directed to Mr. D, that, or to Professor Clark, just make it clear.
Jesus, when he said, Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit. He was speaking in the spirit of all that he had done through a long time ministry. And when she said he did nothing except what he saw his father do. That the words he spoke were not his own, but the words he heard his father speak. And he claimed only to be relating to God as his father.
Thank you, we're really running out of time, we might allow two or three questions more than a first one.
In 1974 75, on television, Professor Anderson who are wanting to Mohammedan law in the Council of legal education, London, and University of London called Mr. Brother, would you please put your question directly, yeah. And pagan because they did not believe in Trinity. May I ask Dr. Floyd, what is his view about Muslims as they do not believe and recognize Trinity?
as well as the crucifixion of Prophet Jesus? Do you consider Muslims as pagan or the people of the book, given also the fact that at the time of a prophet many Christians fully accepted Islam? Okay, thank you, Professor color.
Well, it really doesn't matter what I think it just matters what the book says.
As we've been looking in the book, I think we can come to whatever private opinions we may have. But I think of my brother Ahmed, as of one home when the New Testament was mentioned is one who was not far from the kingdom.
Okay, the next question
no injection from the floor please the next speaker.
Would you please come close so that you could be a slower? One?
My question is direct, rather.
Well, yesterday, day before yesterday on Friday, I attended his meeting in South Hall. And he was speaking about Prophet Muhammad's arrival is mentioned in the in the Bible. Therefore, why Christians? geologists don't talk about if your question I'm sorry for injection here, if your question brothers relate.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I have to interrupt Just a minute, please. Arrival is mentioned in the Bible, in fairness to you.
Don't talk about him. Just a minute, please. In fairness to you and to everybody else, and to the brother who was turned down? The question is not relevant to the topic. Would you please move on? Would you please move on and live the next speaker ask the question relevant to the topic? Go ahead, briefly. Just put it
Professor Clark.
Okay.
Thank you for your question. I throw the question out of order. It's not relevant to the topic. Would you move on please?
Would you move on? Would you move on Jazakallah next speakers.
With the next speaker, please ask us question. We have to be fair and firm. Am I doing something wrong? I'd like to get an indication of the way I'm conducting questions. Am I unfair? Just
go ahead.
Briefly, Brother, please. I would like to say that I'm grateful for this opportunity. And my questions are actually two. Number one. If the Quran is indeed from God, does it predict itself and as much as it says, Okay.
Before Jesus was born, he died and he rose again. The second question is, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the rules, the rules of the game is to ask one question and get the back so that other people don't have a chance. Thank you. Now the question is directed to Mr. Mr. Lee, that's
the verse in question is a Salam aleja yo Ma, y Yamamoto y yo mama Sahaja, which translated means so pieces on me the day that I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I should release to life again, that day that I die, it is not that I died, is not died, is in the future.
We have.
We have time for a maximum of two or three questions at most, because there is a few minutes at the end for concluding remark. The next question, please.
Can you get close to the mic? Please? If we admit that Jesus died to expiate sin, what was the cause? to Adam for committing sin? Is it not? That woman would bring food with pain and men would have to walk for the bed? And is that a finished?
Picture helps it the next question. I would like No, no. Next question. Next question. Thank you, Professor Floyd. Floyd, have you got the question? Sorry. Sorry. We have to respect the rules. The question of the brother. Only one question, please. No, no second question. Please get in the back if there is a chance. Thank you.
Please keep the quiet. Keep the orders. Keep the order. Please.
Wait a minute until the question is answered. Professor Clark.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Did you get it?
What was the topic
about senate?
He said that Jesus died for our sin. And the wife had said that because of that original sin. Man was destined to labor for his work in the book of Genesis and woman would suffer the pregnancy and childbirth. And what how does how is that consistent and that Jesus died for our sin and still women are going through this suffering and men or women?
Well, I think the question that has been asked concerning the role of a woman who has been suffering
furring since the story since the beginning when Adam and Eve fell and the woman has had this role of punishment because she disobeyed God. I think that question is very far from our discussion tonight. But an answer to this, we do know that the New Testament teaches that all creation was brought under bondage when man's sin, and that bondage will not be redeemed until the end, when Christ redeemed the world.
I think we'll have one more question because we are running out of time, we have only four minutes left. It's the last one.
Everybody has a question that is one sentence. But we have 50 sentences waiting. Go ahead. I like to ask.
In
chapter five, verse seven, it says, who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplication was through prayers, and tears out to him that that was able to save him from death? The HGH and was here in that was? Was it a clear indication that you saved from this? Thank you very much. Before they answered the question, I have to apologize by asking the brothers or sisters who are waiting in line to forget it. And we are sorry, we are already 10 minutes behind time
with our concluding remarks, so we can't can't take
Would you please?
Could I ask those brothers who are standing here to please be seated, there is no more time.
They, the Hebrew writer makes it quite clear that Jesus came as a man into the world, to live as a man and to learn obedience. And though he was God's prophet in the world, and God son, yet there were things that he had to do common to man, and that he had to learn what it means as a man to have to obey. And in the midst of that, God heard him because of his faithfulness, in a human flesh as he was laboring with the, the temptations and, and tortures and hatred that he received in the world. And God, of course, heard him because he was faithful and everything which he did.
Thank you. We come now to
we come now to some concluding remarks and announcements. Would you please allow me to continue? Thank you.
Tonight, we have already heard two very prominent, very sincere speakers. I know it is July, but when you add the heat of July to the heat generated in this hole, it might get a little bit too much. However, I feel that I am echoing the feeling of the great majority of those who are present, that it is indeed quite useful and beneficial for both Muslims and Christians to get together and to try to understand each other Muslims and Christians,
Muslims and Christians together with nearly 1 billion more or less followers each constitute about 40% of world population. It is indeed very strange that we hear about detachment between such diversion philosophies as the US and the Soviet Russia. And we never hear as much about badly needed detachment between two communities of believers who share something much more significant than those shared by the US and USSR. That belief in the creators, the belief in the prophets and revelation in the moral laws and on the responsibility for our life and in the life here after I do invite the Muslim audience who are here, to have to try sincerely to understand the standpoint of our Christian
Brothers when they are free, of course to read the Quran and see what the Quran the word of Allah, in their belief say about Jesus, but they must also try to understand Christianity from the standpoint and
Way Christians understand it. But I'd like also to invite the Christian brothers and sisters sitting with us here to also have a sincere attempt to understand the teachings of Islam from its pristine sources. One scholar once commented that until relatively recently, 95% of the books written about Islam has been written by non Muslims, mostly missionary or orientalist. And he addressed He's a good friend of mine, and had Reverend Harry annemun. When he posted this, he addressed the Christian audience and said, What is your feeling as a Christian, if 95% of the books written about Christianity, or written by Muslims,
as such, I hope that the least that can be done would be to refer to the Quran, which is the revelation the Muslim believe is to be the Word of God. In fact, there is a copy of the Quran, I was told that I would say it here in the souvenir shop, there are copies available of the translation of the meaning of the Quran by Yusuf Ali. It is, the brother will show it to you and I understand it is available for us also, and notice that the tour of Mr. deedat will continue until the end of July, so you may inquire about further functions, if you wish. Also, there is an announcement I was requested to make on behalf of Dr. Clark, that those who wish to discuss with him understand Muslims
or non Muslims who wish to ask him questions or queries should contact him after the presentation.
On Monday, July the eighth, there is another function human being on Christ in Islam at seven, seven or 1pm, at 7pm, in Southampton in the Civic Center. And there's also additional information for those who wish to obtain them. You don't imagine where the venue
or the venue for Yeah, for Dr. crackers wish to meet with him, they can meet in the lower level in the West arena room below entrance number one. I wonder if there's any other nonsense so that we can conclude any
there is tea and coffee so that you can cool down a little bit and include any other analyses we do. There are also some videotapes of Mr. D that's presentations and dialogues which are available so you can inquire from the organizers after the meeting. Again, I would like to apologize for the brothers whom I cut off even though I didn't want to do it. I apologize to all of you. If there's any errors. I seek forgiveness of Allah for that. And I thank you most earnestly as well as our honor speakers for your patience. Thank you very much.