Debate on Shism (1 of 4)

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To all the listeners of channel Islam International, we welcome you. The debate today is on differences between the Shia school of thought and the Atlas sunnah wal Jamaat is gone for many years. They are pertinent differences and anyone who try to be hoodwinked you that there's no such differences. We'll find out tonight that there are major and putting the differences. The debate, as the word suggest, is confrontational by nature. There is no declaration of brotherhood. Brotherhood is universal for every Ummah to have nebi Salah al Islam, I embrace even every single other person in E to Artois as my brother, but it's a different type of brotherhood. We are discussing the

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constitution of a country where we embrace even things like abortion, and we embrace homosexuality because everyone is right and as to say what he has to say. We will embrace it according to the truth of the Glorious Quran image it and the Sunnah, not at the expense of the Quran and the Sunnah, according to the Quran and Sunnah, but you won't be done at the expense of the Quran and Sunnah. Alhamdulillah the brother that is representing the Shia school of thought is no stranger to channel Islam International. Doctors say it Abdullah Hussein, he has been to our studio in the past, and has had a discussion at length on the topic of the day of Ashura with the respectable nuclear blue

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collar Hussein. So his voice is not alien to the listeners of channeling Islam, they would recognize him in sha Allah. And also with us for the first time is Molana Taha Quran. He studied in India, and in institutions out there went to Egypt went to study in Egypt, presently based in Cape Town, and Alhamdulillah. Tonight, we will listen to his elaborations on the differences between Shia and the Sunni school of thought. She's aka la Sierra and for allowing this opportunity and Alhamdulillah to the many people sitting out there, I could just very quickly say if my time is not up as yet Molana to the listeners out there since we are into radio, it's a wonderful atmosphere year the woman for

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peace hall, quite a few brothers here from Utah to and many other areas, a few from Actimel and brains to it. Our mothers and sisters are with us as well today inshallah. And we certainly hope you're going to have a wonderful discussion just like Kamala Phelan. Thank you, Brother Abraham gang it for that wonderful introduction. Now, the subjects under discussion will be covering the following areas they are namely six areas, time permitting, we shall cover each and every one of them, but the format will be as follows. For the subjects is first the data of the Quran, which will be discussed, then it will be the authority of the Al bait in the light of Quran and Sunnah. The

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third topic will be imam in the light of Quran and Sunnah. The fourth is the Sahaba Quran in the light of Quran and Sunnah. And the fifth is takia, which is subterfuge. And number six is Mata its legal status in Islam. Now we begin with the first subject, which is the Hadith of the Quran. I shall give each speaker 15 minutes. The first speaker will be His Eminence Maulana Taha Kiran, who will speak for 15 minutes then Dr. Sayed Abdullah Husseini will be given another 15 minutes for rebuttal. And then the subject will go on for an hour and that is how we will go on to the next topic and on to the next topic inshallah Aziz.

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So, it is now my pleasure to call on His Eminence Maulana Taha Kiran to speak for 15 minutes Smilla Hawkman Ibrahim in The Hamlet Illa Hinayana guna starting on install Pharaoh who want to study

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when are all the learning and should all young phocoena was a year Dr. Molina, Maria de lo for her Wilmore 31 My young Lila who fall into Judah who will be your Murshida or shadow Allah Allah Allah Allahu Allahu la sharika will shadow under Mohammed Abdullah he also lo sallallahu alayhi wa ala alihi wa sahbihi wa Baraka wa salam, the Sleeman Kathira,

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a MOBA and

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we have decided to start with the topic of Tari full Quran

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for no reason other than the fact that

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the Quran is the fountainhead of all our knowledge have been whatever they is, that has come to us from Allah, Allah aside is embodied within this Quran. And it's only when the authenticity of this Quran is established beyond the fact and that it is established that both schools of thought believe and have always believed in the authenticity of the Quran that we can continue on to other subjects.

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The fact of the matter from our point of view is that as

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personology Amara is concerned that Alison Noel Jamar were the persons responsible. From the very inception of the history of Islam for the preservation of the sticks. It was his Aha, the Allah on whom we learn this Quran, from the mouth of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam. They documented it in the time of Abu Bakr. They documented it again in the time of Othman. They taught the two subjects subsequent generations. Until what we have today the Quran in its present state is revealed by Allah Allah,

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revealed by Allah to Allah taught to us by Rasulullah, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, to the Sahaba to the community at large, and pass along by them one from one generation to the other, until what we have today, that is from the perspective of RSLogix Amara.

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On the other hand, when you come to the Shia, and I'm speaking specifically of the Shia, Allah Mamiya, and if Nigeria, because what Shia is a general term we need to restrict it is a generic term that includes many more sects and the sake represented by Saira Abdullah Husseini. Today, there are many other sects that are also covered by the name Shia. So we are speaking specifically about the Shia and the Mamiya list. Now Sharia also known as the jafria. Within

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the Jaffery school of thought, within the Imam is school of thought or the Ignatian school of thought, we have reason to believe that everything has not been

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the same as it is in the School of Arsenal Jamar.

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Why do we have reason to be in terms of the authenticity of the Quran? We ask the question.

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When we ask the question that did have the CR if Nigeria consistently for the past 14 years believe the authenticity of this Quran as it is or have they not? When we ask this question, where do we seek the answer? Do we seek the answer in asking a scholar such as said Abdullah Hussaini? Do we seek the answer in reading a book of

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any contemporary scholar or Latter Day scholars such as Ayatollah al Qasim and Hui? Or do we look to the classical legacy? The classical legacy of the Ignatian Imani school of thought, Where do we ask where do we refer this question to? If we should ask this question from a contemporary she alum, then I can already tell you what the answer is going to be. It won't be any surprise question has been asked, answers have been given most Huff's have been produced to show you that look, we have no different most have from yours, and most have to enter the neuron is exactly the same as the most have printed in Madina Munawwara there is no difference. But that is not what it's all about. That

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is not what we speak of when we speak about the fact that within the Imam, your school of thought there have been problems with the authenticity of the Holy Quran. And it isn't that that we?

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It is there that we want to speak, or that we would want to speak about, it had been brought to my notice before that.

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It had been said that this topic would probably be covered within five minutes. I totally disagree with this contention. I totally disagree. Because this is a topic that could go on at length. And it's a very important topic, because it lies at the very root of this religion of Islam, much more than anything else. This particular question lies at the root of the religion of Islam. Believe in the authenticity of the Quran is the sin qua non for being part of this ummah of Islam. And if anyone casts doubts upon this particular authenticity of this text, if anyone beyond casting doubts, rejects the authenticity of this text, then I'm sorry to say he by his very act has taken himself

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out of the fold of Islam.

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I will restrict myself to this much for the introduction, because I would want to hear what my

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challenging on the other hand has to say about it before I continue.

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But before I ask Chef Husseini to respond for 15 minutes, Milena Karen did not take his 15 minutes voluntarily. Not that I stopped him.

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But I'm going to be giving you 15 minutes which you can avail but before I do that, I would like to advise both the speakers that if you make any claim or any, any either one of you make any claims about the others belief system or whatever, that it would be advised that you give reference from that particular tradition that you give reference from that particular tradition.

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Thank you. Now I call upon chef Dr. Sayed Abdullah Hussaini to speak for 15 minutes

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although the La Mina shaytani R rajim Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim mother who want to start you know when I talk about callow ally

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in who Cairo No sir in Burma in Soma Salatu was Salam ala Haider.

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Well I should have been big he was really hot and we'll be able we're selling

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Qasim Al Mustafa Muhammad

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sallallahu alayhi wa ala and they beat to hit up not to hit renal mass who mean was harbor Hill theoretical MultiGP rubbish rally Sudbury? Well, yes, certainly Emery Hello opendata mill the Sony yufka who goalie

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I believe this meeting was supposed to be held something like 20 years ago.

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We are too late for having this auspicious gathering.

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And I believe this can be the first constructive step

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toward satisfying Allah subhanho wa taala. In South Africa and elsewhere.

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The differences between Shia and Sunni school of thought is not something new. It has been the from the time of the demise of our Nebia Kareem sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi wa sallam has been there.

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But why only in the last 25 years, 23 years, you're hearing about this

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end it has been highlighted.

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And then you go to the history we'll find out what happened 23 years ago,

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the greatest Islamic revolution of our century happened on 1979 in Iran.

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And that revolution was going to take over the whole world. The aim and objective of that revolution was freedom of goods.

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And the aim objective of that revolution was bringing dignity to Islam.

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Imam Khomeini rise the flag of Islam in the century.

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The enemies who were very much written by that revolution, they start thinking,

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What can I do to stop

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this revolution?

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We have documentation brothers and sisters from the Embassy of America, which was captured by the students that one of the documents, which has been rearranged and reproduced was that the American ministration has administration has they located $500,000 given to the Embassy of them in Tehran, to find the differences between Shias and Sunnis and highlighted. So they haven't come only to this shear to the Sunni brothers telling them what she has thinking about. They have come to us also to the Shia was also telling to us also other distorted things that like Sunni brothers, they don't like Ali, or they hate Ali, or they insult Ali, or they don't like Allan beta amo salaam, which that

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cannot be true. I know that cannot be true. But unfortunately, between the Sunni brothers because of a lot of reasons, those areas which they highlighted, worked, it worked. And I can see the effects of that even tonight, that the brother comes here and say this is not a declaration of brotherhood. I don't blame the brother. The brother is doing it out of his pure sincerity for Allah and for Islam.

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And also, if I raise my hand to the brother, I extend my Salaam and I want to shake the hand of this brother the brother refused to it's effective, it has been effective what they have done. So they highlighted the differences. One of those differences are the distortion which Quran in tempering with with Quran which is tariff of Quran now. I've got with me a pamphlet from Jamia to Lola. And this can be shown to the brother and it's available. You can see it's written Islamic revolution of Iran. And then one portion on the top side there is a reference which I want the chairman to read it actually Please brother if you can just read that first portion.

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She recently has asked me to read from the pamphlet which is issued by the LGMA publications about the Quran and I read what I read in the pamphlet. On the contrary, we say that so much of revelation has come down which is not embodied in the present Quran

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See that if it were to be collected its extent would be 17,000 verses. And the reference given here is to a book called a shade creed, page 77. And then below it in bold writing, the writer of this pamphlet says, incidentally, the Holy Quran contains 6666 verses, okay? Now, I have got, fortunately, this book available with me.

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And it seems that the person who has given that reference has given the reference from the same book, because I can see that sentence ease in this book. That sentence is in this book, I'm not denying that you see, I'm not making takut it's dead.

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Now, but if you look at the whole chapter, it starts from here, they believe concerning the extend of the Quran and I'll also again, request the brother reflection as chairperson to read it for us.

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In case I may read it wrongly

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on the request of Sheikh Husseini, I read from the book which has been referred to it is page 77. And I confirm it is chapter 33. And it is concerning the belief concerning the extent or the mandala of the Holy Quran, and I quote, says chef Abu Jaffa

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our belief is that the Quran which ALLAH revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is the same as the one between the two boards, the 14th and it is that which is in the hands of the people and is not greater in extent than that the numbers of Surahs as generally accepted is 114. And according to us, surah Taha the morning surah and alumna Asha,

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together they've they form one surah and LM Tra Que pasa and Surah feel and Li laffy Quraysh together from one surah and he who asserts that we say that it is greater in extended this which is the present text is a liar, okay. Now, you saw the reference has been given to you if I was insulted you and if I did not have access to the book, which I have got in my hand, I was going to also sincerely like you brothers who hates me because I have another Quran I was going to believe

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that he is these people they have got another Quran Yeah, look at the book is given reference page 77.

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But fortunately, I got the book now, who is the writer of that book? That's very important. I want to answer the question of Maulana Taha Quran which I really respect him because of the extent of his knowledge I heard a lot about him. May Allah give him long life for service of Islam.

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This book is written by who by Abu Jaffa, Sheikh Saduak che Saduak is che Holmer had the scene. He is the closest Muhammad this to the time of Imam Muhammad Ali Salam, and the time of the 11th Imam.

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He actually in in some of the narrations that we have, he has

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find so dignity that when he died, Mr. Ma de la Salam came to his grave, and also written something and called him his brother, such a person, which is such an earlier history of Islam has got this book, writing and in that book, it is written that they believe of an old bait school of thought concerning the Quran and extend his same of the belief of our Sunni brothers, the number of the chapter is 114. Now, what is now that reference, which is the that reference, which is there it is in the book, but what that reference says that, on the contrary, can you see what what what's meaning of On the contrary, this is about what we believe. But on the contrary, we say that so much

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of revelation has come down which is not embodied in the present Quran that if it were to be collected, it extend would undoubtedly be 17,000 verses. What what this chapter says, If I read for you the whole chapter, which is not time, it will talk to you about the other revelations, which is revelation on a Hadees on Portsea, which is the communication between Allah and Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam direct or through Gibreel which Allah did not tell him to put in the Quran. It consists what how these are quotes here. So if you wanted to add a hadith to Quran it was going to be 17,000 verse he says, on the contrary, we don't believe so. So the extent of Quran

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is the same which we have got. So that's one. So the brother says, he asked me a question that the idea of the Quran being a complete book is new to elevate school of thought. I completely denied that one by giving you the name of something like 55 of the grand and great polymers that we have during the centuries and I can be able to live in to tell you what centuries they were living, like Sadu che como feed near to each other Sharif, Allah mon Hoda close to shake mo feed and then we have trouble see and giving you with the with a with a consecutive centuries. Like tuber see and to see and shave Hilde and see a dip natal goose and biology and catchy fat Hola. Hey Cassani neuroma is so

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sturdy. I mean, I can I can go ahead with about 50 of Obama's during the history of Islam in the last 14 centuries one by one comes and emphasize we don't believe in another Quran what do you want more.

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Now Saduak says this is my book. And then

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as the the statement of Sudoku is important because of two aspects one, because shaker Sudoku is the one who has written a book on our a taco dot which we accepted 100% Whatever is written in the book assured creed I will accept it no problem. Because this is the book which I tell you my eight Avodart is written here. Don't go and search other books which is written by another scholar which is not presenting me because all of the elements during the history of Islam accept this book. So if you give me reference from this book, I don't have no problem. This is written concerning my echo.so That's what the second thing is he's close to the time of Mr. Match.

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And his shareholder had the see. And the other thing is that the majority of the Alama of shear is very much agree with him now.

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The reason that Quran is not tampered with, if you look at the books of Shia school of thought, in the sources that we got in our Sunni school of thought we have

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more stronger Hadees and reviled and collections and efforts

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and emphasizing

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that Quran is not tampered with Quran is not changed. And I will give you some of the reasons. First, the yacht from Quran, the one with the chapter ha meme, which is verse 41, Chapter 41 Verse 40, low Yachty healthbar Salaam in Bahia de while I'm in Kulfi

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what that means Allah subhanho wa Taala tells you I guarantee that no one can do anything with this book. Immediately when no sun or the other come to Quran, it means bottle has come to this Quran and that's something which is against the text of Quran that's one.

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The second is says in na na na na na na, na na na na no, the whole office on the Inala hula Orphism Allah says, I will guarantee that this is my miracle to my messenger and I'm going to keep it

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no matter who you are. If you're a Shia or Sunni or a cafe or a merchant, whoever you are, you are not able to do any tariffs on this book. Even if you want

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even if you want

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we are not able because our power whatever we have is less than the power of Allah and Allah promised in his book I will keep it and I will safeguard it. So who I am to be able to do any distortion on this book.

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And then from Hadith we have got lots and lots of Hadees which ALLAH SubhanA wa like we have got Imam Ali Ali Salam saying in natural Bulava Kitab or Abu Conficker, the book of Allah is in your hand. What what book he is talking about is another book coming from another planet being in the hands of goo. I mean, if there was another Quran, which I believe definitely that Quran was going to be printed submit, it's going to be presented submit, it's going to be believed submit, it's going to be published somewhere it's going to be read somewhere.

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And if that is the case, II I would like really to find that book and to get hold of that because I really up to this moment I being a Shia scholar, being about 18 years in housing school. I haven't gotten

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one yet.

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up to this moment in my life, I haven't come across such a Quran which has got extra or less chapter than what we have here. If you find it, please, please and please bring it to me. Now I would like to call his Eminence Mallanna da Kiran to respond.

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Several points on which we can comment upon. First of all, we are a few corrections

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have a Java Ribbon Bar boy slope

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was not the closest of the Mojave theme to the time of

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the disappearance alleged disappearance of the muddy he died in the year

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Abuja Mohammed Amin Jacobo Collini died 328 He was closer to him to the Mojave than Abu Jafar sodoku benburb away number two Abu Jaffa upon me that is Sedona he lived in ohm, whereas Mohammed miniapp Obon Collini lived in Baghdad during the time of the for the labor so raw, while the four above Nawab of the Imam was so present. So that's one point. Point number two is let's

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say you're Abdullah Hussein, he has given us a quote from a Saudi Arabian Baba way. And he has made the attempt of generalizing the view expressed by Saudi Arabian Bob a way to represent the view of

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of all the dilemma of this year.

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I don't know if you got the same impression. But the impression I got was that the quotation from Kitab, Allah they thought of Saudi Arabian, who was taken to be representative of a view of all of the alumna of the Shia. And this is where I beg to differ.

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expect or rather, for the following reasons.

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In the early age of the car, when we speak about

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from the year 260 onwards, more or less at that time, when the hyper Sahara set in

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there were several authors of the car, several more had the theme. There wasn't only Collini and Sudoku Pandava there were several others. There was a Safar the author of bizarro Daraja, there was Ali ibn Ibrahim and who me the author, the author of the famous Tafseer of this year, one of the earliest of seeds of this era, there was a lie Yashi there was

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calculating student and

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Normani there were several other people. So don't even Bob aways view was a very loan view at that time. In fact, in the early history of the car for the first few centuries, you will find only three of the rolana to have expressed the view we say Abdullah Hussein has expressed now only three of the Alama and I can name the names because he has name name as well as other people and by the way is number one. The second one is said mourtada, Allah Muda. The third one is the author of the CMS model by eon these are the only three the only scholars of the early period of this year wherever expressed this particular view. Now we had a quotation from kW RT card, I want to I want to read to

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you from another tafsir if my chairperson would allow me this is the Silverhand feet of serial Quran by Sade Hashim al Husseini, Al Bharani. This deceit was printed done could have been IMEA. Home Iran.

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Besides this, I have several other capacity. Do you see the boxes standing in front of me? This is another Tafseer there are several other books over there. We could probably go for the rest of the night paging through these books. But I want to bring to your notice that there has been a certain amount of misrepresentation. Yeah. So Bismillah let's read from this particular book here. And then ask ourselves the question whether the view of sudoku been Bible way and those few other elements that were mentioned along with him are the only views that represent the view of the owner of the car throughout history. Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim, the chapter which we which we are dealing with,

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I'm reading from the Mocha Dima, that's the first volume the first volume is a complete introduction. This thing is a bit in my way

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and welcome to

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the second part, Dima, remember this book was printed in Iran not 1000 years ago. This was printed in Iran quite recently. From its appearance you can see you can see that the chapter says that Alma Kadima to felony fee by Ernie Ma, you will be who are Bardot of urine Phil Qurani Shall I translate as they go along?

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Well unknown sarahfey Geralyn Arusha de la Emeril Willa yet you will email that you will ishara Illa for bodily annual bite or for the authority in Marathi Bahasa we Bucknell Kuramoto really well. Ishar Bidadi gala civility Joe's were Romo's with ARIA Villa Hill Quran with MCV. So long introduction, basically what it says

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This is an explanation of the fact that some changes did take place in the Quran by an MA yogi who are badly that he didn't feel Quran. Then he goes on. If you permit me I won't translate the rest of the topic because I want to get into the text. Elemental Huck. Noah says the author said Hershey and Barney, a very highly respected scholar here alum, Anil Huck, Alavi Lamar Hassan will know that the truth from which there is no escape. The truth from Jay is no escape. Biha Seville Akbar Al mutawa Tierra emotiva Tierra del t it was really her in terms of the mutawa to Akbar. Now I want you to understand this is a very complicated term, it's a technical term What's the meaning of the word

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without the meaning of the word without it is when a hadith have been rated in such abundance in such abundance, that they leave no room for doubt whatsoever? This meaning of the word with Awatea said Hashem Rouhani says in terms of all of these mutawatir Hadith in terms of all of these mutawatir Hadith and herbal Quran and Latifi Idina Hardwar coffee bada Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam che Amina del he asked, What was the other Latina Jamar obado, cafiero middle curry, Marathi Well, yet

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monologue can correct me if I'm translating wrongly. He says that the heart from which the truth from which there is no escape in terms of the mortality a hadith which we have in opposition here

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is that this Quran which is in our hands, but what coffee he bought, after the death of Rasulullah sallallahu Sallam there has occurred in the shade a minute that he wrought. There has been some changes well as kata Lavina Gemma who those who gathered this Quran together and in my introduction I mentioned to you with those who gathered the Quran, those as is harbor in the time of a worker afterwards in terms of man those who gathered this Quran they dropped out from it calcium alkalinity well several many words and many verses also.

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So then this is one if you want I'll open the next book. I want to take too much time but I have time I will open another book

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Yeah, I have another book. This is the seal of Savi from the looks of it you can see it's a quite new book. I'll give you the past if I can find the correct date of publication here.

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Date of publication is not given but from the looks of it. You can see it's very new printer by Mercer ALEMI in Beirut in Lebanon

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is 52 in here he quotes the views of okay let's start off on page 49.

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The author of the stuff see it is

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Mullah al cachalia

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He says that a coup Isa Al Mustafa do mean Jimmy YOU HAVE heal up but he is first mentioned several several Hadith I don't want to read through all of them for you, because it's gonna take very long but he's giving us the gist of it. Now, he says and Mustafa, the gist of all of this means Yomiuri had enough but what are you the Homina rewire at mintaro at Lille Beatty alayhi wa sallam? What is gained from all of these Hadith which you have in front of us from the rewire from the narrations that are narrated from the original beit Ali he Musallam Anil Khurana levy Bina of Haryana Lee Surbiton me he come out on Zilla Allah Muhammad in sallallahu alayhi wa early he was alum that this

00:33:31--> 00:34:13

Quran which is between us lays a bit on me it is not completely as it was revealed to Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi wa sallam Bell Ming Hua Hua healer Forman's, Allah Allah. This Quran which we have in our hands, some of it is against what Allah Tala con contradicts what Allah Tala has revealed what I mean who Maha Maha Maha Ruff, some of it has been changed, some of it has been interpolated, we're in the hole called holy Ferran was here Tefera and many things have been omitted from this Quran. Then he gives example of those things. He says mean her is smiley, you gnarly he said a few cathedra minimal there the name of Ali Ali Salaam in several places in this Quran. Now

00:34:13--> 00:34:49

those who have read the Quran we have several father amongst us, and we have several of us who have read the Quran. And can anyone claim here that he has read the name of Satan or Olivia Vitaly but all the Allahu Anhu or Karim Allah wa jal anywhere in the Quran. I asked our sharing brothers, our email me brothers Oh, Jennifer, the brothers were present can any of it? I don't think any of you will be able to produce the name. Yeah, I'll fail. Kashani one of the leading eminent scholars of the Safavid era of Iran tells us that the name of Alumina Vitaly or the Allah Han was omitted from the Quran fika feeding middle melodic many places Wamena Eurosonic and he says and besides this,

00:34:49--> 00:35:00

there are other changes as well. One who lays out even a letter T Bill Murphy and Allah the Quran has we have it now is not in the 13th in the sequence which Allah Tala is pleased with it is not a correct sequence in

00:35:00--> 00:35:14

other words, wind or solar heat and it's not Allah and His Apostle is not pleased with this particular sequence of the Quran. Then he goes on to quote Ali ibn Ibrahim Al ko me Ali even Ibrahim welcome me I want to tell you who is Alim they brought him on camera when I was nighttime

00:35:16--> 00:35:33

proximately Okay, I'll even Abraham will call me is the Gustaf of Abu Jaffa Mohammed Iacob alquila nia Ali Ibrahim and called me is the start of the author of Al coffee. The coffee is the premiere so Hadith sauce of the Shia Imam in Nigeria.

00:35:34--> 00:36:19

Beyond that, I also want to tell you that close up to 1/3 of all the wire in L coffee. I've counted this personally close up to 1/3 of all the 16,000 rewire this continual coffee 60,000 Somewhat underrated through Ali Ibrahim and Comey He is the author of this particular tafsir he's he is well known amongst the Shia for his extreme views on this particular issue of the diary for the Quran, he is fully studied with ayat of a hadith of the Hadith. Paula Ali Lee Rahim feet of city a mama Tana falafel Manzil Allah you give him examples of changes in the Quran for Hua colo Darla quantum Hiang machinery Jacqueline, as many people know this ayah Allah Tala addresses uma and tells him that you

00:36:19--> 00:36:57

are the best of OMAS you are the best of all massage has been taken out for mankind that Morona will maruf you command the good but then hold it longer. You pray but the bad word to me no Nabila this ayah says Ali Eva I will call me was raised in the presence of an imam Jafra Saudi Radi Allahu Allah for kala Abu Abdullah Ali Salam so Abu Abdullah Ali Salam that is Imam Jaffa Saudi, he said to the reader call any party had higher Mateen Dr. Luna Ameerul Momineen while Hassan Ali one for Cena Banani Allah human Allah Hema, Sanam can this be a higher ALMA can this be the best of numerous when they kill Ali when they kill for saving nearly what sort of hygroma is fatigue Allah will play

00:36:57--> 00:37:24

Vanessa Latina Rasulullah How was this ayah revealed and oh son of Rasulullah sallallahu Taala for call in namanas Allah Hi Isla emetine or collegiately nurse, this wasn't higher omega the IR came down is you are the best of Imams and one of the best of Imams, then of course it will refer them to the 12 Imams. Is this a change in the Quran, who is not a change in the Quran, I can go on my time is limited, I would have loved to read the rest of this to you as well. But this there is much much more

00:37:25--> 00:38:05

in terms of names of Allah ma who have believed in this particular artifact of the Hadith Alhamdulillah except that Shiva Sadu whom say the Abdullah Hussein has mentioned I welcome him in the ranks of those who accept the validity of the Quran. I welcome in the names in the ranks of those who have accepted the validity the following persons Unfortunately, I cannot welcome and they are the leaders of the Sunnah of the CR. He says Well, I'm at ha do Masha Yukina Rahima whom Allah as for the beliefs of Omar Sharif, the leaders of the of the CR feed Erica for Vahid me 15 Islami Mohammed bin Jacobo Colonia taba sallahu a no Ghana yatta yatta Khalifa knocks on the wall here, the

00:38:05--> 00:38:40

apparent view of Muhammad Musa Jacobo Collini is that he used to believe in the Hadith and he said even Luxan interpolation of the Quran and subtractions from the Quran work Urlacher who started who Ali Ibrahim alchemy for in atom Sierra Sierra who Murmu Amin who well who who wouldn't be nice to see this photo this kind of a hadith and he is in fact extremely this particular view work atellica shade Achmed even early even though the italic of Tabata see what unmistakable Alia Tabata see and then the names go on and the names go on and the names go on. I wouldn't want to waste too much of my time doing this. I hope I have made my point. My point is, is that when you say that? No, we see

00:38:40--> 00:39:17

I have never believed in this. Look at what success is Alhamdulillah for what's the Dukkha said, but does Saduak represent each and every Harling that ever lived. I can read pages and pages of names of Alama of the Shia who have actually believed Express they believe very clearly. One of the books in in my box here is a book called Anwar and Normani by Sidney amatola Al Jazeera Edie, I will tell you say the amatola Jazza. He clearly expresses his opinion in this book, he says this Quran is Mahara. This Quran has been changed. And he tells us that how many Hadith do this year after their disposal, how many a hadith we have to dispose to show us that the Quran has been has been changed how many he

00:39:17--> 00:39:33

tells us 2000 The hadith not one or two 2000 a hadith. And yeah, in front of me I have a very important book. This book is called festival setup fee is Bertie Halevi kita Bill Arbab, written by a scholar who died about 120 years ago. His name is Alana

00:39:34--> 00:39:37

al Mirza Husayn annuity of tabaxi. He wrote

00:39:42--> 00:39:43

We don't require that

00:39:44--> 00:39:59

He's given us in this year, over 100 pages of a hadith over 100 pages. See, this is the book. Here's the book 100 pages of a hadith of this era, drawn from the sources of this era from the most authentic of the sources of the Shia, and he tells us you

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Here it is you want to see where the where the Hadith out of this year where they see the Quran is changed Surah by Surah Hadith by Hadith from Imam Jaffa Saudi from Imam Muhammad Al balcom from Imam Zainul RB Dean from Imam Ali arriba. From all many of these Imam moussaka, you name it. They are here all of these Hadith that indicate that this Quran has been changed over 2000 a hadith saying that McCullough alleges it tells us so when said Abdullah Hussein, he asks me that way is this Quran? It must have been printed. I answer by saying that the Imam himself instructed

00:40:34--> 00:41:10

his followers that Equilon will come on a limb to First Tee Kuma Yuna Bo can read this Quran as you have learned, don't read it as I'm telling you now read as you have learned, because they will come to you someone, they will come to you someone who will teach you this Quran, for as long as the Imam does not return at the end of time this year are bound to read the same Quran as us. They have no permission. They have no permission to reprint another Quran. They don't have the permission. Therefore there is no Quran. No one makes the claim that the CRO have a different Quran. What we do say in the Shia legacy is filled with these Ahadi. So what do we do at the end of the day? I can for

00:41:10--> 00:41:21

each and every name that said Abdullah Hussein, he can quote that they believed in the authenticity of the Quran. I can go two or three other names that didn't that did not believe in the authenticity of the Quran. In fact,

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I have I have named some names and I would just want to make another point before I go on. I just wanted to make another point.

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Mirrors Mullah Muhammad Barkat allegedly see Mullah Muhammad Al Majid LISI was the preeminent scholar of Safa times, he died in the year 1111. He has several books. To his credit, one of the great the largest books of the Shia Imami is Nigeria that is Bihar la noir, as well as a commentary on Al Kafi called me at a local mail alarm code in there he states in the states that the ahaadeeth on this topic are so many that it doesn't understand how people can make if birth how people can prove IBAMA on the basis of a hadith and they don't prove the Hadith on the basis of a hadith. There were some people in his time to who said no, no, no, we don't believe it. Are you prepared to 2000

00:42:10--> 00:42:42

out of the Hadith of the of your Imams, those whom you believe to be Masoom 2000 Hadith you are prepared to reject. Just because Sadhguru had made a statement once or once upon a time or say it motiva had made a statement. As I say once again, I welcome them in the ranks of those who believe in this Quran. But that does not go for the entire spectrum of the ulama of this era, that unfortunately, I'm sorry. Thank you Melinda Kira. Now, I would call on Dr. Sayed de la Sunni to respond for another 15 minutes.

00:42:44--> 00:42:47

What shaker Saduak believed,

00:42:48--> 00:43:19

I started to read a list of the all of the elements who believed on the on the authenticity authenticity of the same Quran and Quran not been changed and stopped because the time was not allowing me and I have given you the name of 59 of the Olmos the grand great Olmos of Allah Shia during the 14th centuries, which all of them believed with the same Quran. Now.

00:43:20--> 00:43:54

I also accept it is true what the brother say what's written in that book with a few differences that book which he was mentioning, it was not written by Faisal Cassani it was by Mohammed discussion and Mohammed discussion in the same book and I can show you it is it has has got one sentence, which says in Kerberos Sharif, in Kerberos tarrif mu holophone lil Kitab Makala forniture Tarbela Mackenzie Bonhoeffer algebra

00:43:57--> 00:43:58

whoever believe

00:44:00--> 00:44:51

that the Quran has been distorted. This is against the authenticity of Quran this is against the text of Quran which says in non known as agnostic in Allah who will offer Zune and such a person is a liar. That's one. Secondly, among those people who believe in tarrif of Quran in Shia history only that is five Allama compared to 559 and that's why I encourage brother to extend the little bit he's studies to go and take a get hold of those other books that we have also for him to read the book of che Hora Armani, Muhammad Bhagat emergency which is one of those people who firmly believe in the same Quran. Bartolo loom Kashif will guitar Shasha honey Kumari Tabrizi Shahara Stani Ashtiani mama

00:44:51--> 00:44:59

Connie belagavi apne Idris Fazal Juan de Muhammad Mohsen. I mean the recent one, Najafi Mara She shakes Sharafuddin shake

00:45:00--> 00:45:24

apostolica terani Ayatollah Hadi Milani Ayatollah goalpara Ghani Ayatollah Imam Khomeini Ayatollah Hui and Najafi Mirage he must go and just read the the idea of those people to really value if these people can make a majority or now just because there is two or three hola mas in the history of shear who believe in tarrif of Quran which I don't deny.

00:45:25--> 00:45:29

Now, that book that the brother showed festival hitop

00:45:31--> 00:45:50

fita Khalifa al Kitab fashional Kitab is written by Mirza Husseini Nuri. This This is very strange and very, very interesting topic, please pay attention to this. First of all, it's his personal opinion against the majority of the amount of 59 people that is what

00:45:51--> 00:45:58

and secondly, against this book by the sheer will amaz another four book has been

00:45:59--> 00:46:00


00:46:01--> 00:46:02


00:46:03--> 00:46:51

criticize this book. Another full book has been published one of them is cashflow at art, Festival Theatre and other form book has been written which one of them is Sayed Muhammad Hussain, a Shara stany. The other one is Sheikh Mahmoud Iraqi, the other one is shaker Billahi. All of them has written books against that book, from sheer word we don't need now the Sunni brothers to come and tell us why this book is there because we know it is wrong. And that's why we have written books against it. So that's another story. So listen, the third point, shaken up himself in page 35 of that book, he has pastiche that he is alone in this upcoming year. And this is not each ma of OMA of

00:46:51--> 00:47:22

each ma of annual bade school of thought on distortion of Quran that's one. The third the fourth point he's a student is somebody called shake of authority. Ronnie, he says, I heard from my teacher, that towards the end of his life, he was telling me a feeling of type of remorse that why I put the name of Book Festival Kitab Fatah, even Quran why I did not put it first look it up the other material Quran that is another one. The third the fifth point.

00:47:23--> 00:47:24

This is bad news.

00:47:25--> 00:47:34

In that book that is 12 Chapter and I've gone through all of them brothers and sisters and I can prove this point from the book which is available here Alhamdulillah

00:47:36--> 00:47:37

there is 12 chapters.

00:47:39--> 00:47:42

The first 10 chapter of that books

00:47:43--> 00:48:21

99% of the references which has been given in that Book is not from the sources of sheer school of thought it has been used Sahara acetate has been used the books of our Sunni brothers. The man from Shearwater comes and write a book the other military for Quran use Sunni sources, the 10 the 10 chapter in that book is used that is our strong point that if you want to give the Shia opinion so why don't bring the Shia Hadith says so that's one but fortunately, the two last chapter of that book is dedicated to share her thesis.

00:48:23--> 00:48:24

Okay, now what's wrong with them?

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In that, in that particular 11th Chapter, it particularly deals with not left the distortion, nothing to do addition to this Quran by words, Quran is the same but distortion and tarif by the meanings of Quran into foresees that's one and on the terms.

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Chapter only, we have got not 2000 I have counted those numbers and the brother also can go it's 1000 Hadees is too much 1000 Hadith, but listen more.

00:49:10--> 00:49:15

If this 1000 Hadith which has come in that book festival creator

00:49:16--> 00:49:26

320 Hadees from this 1000 is related and narrated by somebody called cure.

00:49:27--> 00:49:35

Now who is the cure guy, he is the one which has been cast by Mr. Musa alayhis salam as person who fabricates Hadith

00:49:39--> 00:49:40


00:49:45--> 00:49:51

from the other parts of Hadith that we have got there is another 600 Rebbe day

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which has come in different words but wordings of those six 103

00:50:00--> 00:50:03

wire that came in that book is one,

00:50:04--> 00:50:23

the meaning of that 600 is just one rewired, but different type of wording. Sorry, I made a mistake, different type of wording for just one Hadith. One Hadith has been said, in a 600 ways. Now.

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So this is only one hottie. So it's not gonna be 1000 anymore, it's gonna be 320 plus one, it's three 321, then the balance will be how much at Hadees. Now, if you look at the other 80 Hadees, I've gone extensively to basically read that book. It's not now I read about five, six years ago, brothers and I've got all of the You see, I haven't come with my books here because I've got my researcher here. What is here the other 8075 of those 80 Hadith says is the common hadith is between Shia and Sunnis, which is narrated in the both books of Shias and Sunnis, it's not only narrated by shears, that's another one remaining of that is how much five Hadees you want to compare five Hadees

00:51:12--> 00:51:23

and by the base of only five Hadees you want to tell me that I believe another Quran while I am with the Open Heart coming to you brothers. I don't believe why you forced me to believe in another Quran.

00:51:24--> 00:52:01

I am saying here my mama's here 59 of the Kubota of my Alma here is it the off each month. Here is my great leader Imam Khomeini, his me as a Shia scholar in this country. I'm telling you brothers, I don't have another Quran why you must force me to believe in another branch. That's what the other thing is now let's go and see what is the hadith of tarrif in the Sunni world? That is interesting. First of all, brothers let me tell you we ensure school of thought we don't have no book called sigh

00:52:03--> 00:52:09

listen to this very carefully. Why? Because I can deny any Hadees the brother tells me

00:52:11--> 00:52:13

it's not the same book it's not I don't have a say book.

00:52:16--> 00:52:27

Of course I don't deny it just like that. I will compare it with Quran and Aquila and other things and I will then decide if this is right had this or not, but I don't have no book called

00:52:29--> 00:52:39

or even before Asana is booked that we have got none of them authorized 100% in the country, let me tell you something.

00:52:41--> 00:52:49

I've got the Sahara the book of coffee, which is very important.

00:52:52--> 00:52:58

Coffee has got 16,000 Hadith. Now this coffee has been used frequently produces

00:52:59--> 00:53:13

16,000 Hadees only from this 16,000 Hadees 5082 Hadees is recently has been researched and announced at the site Hadees.

00:53:14--> 00:53:33

Among dead there is about 82 morsel, another 152 Mobis set and then there is the balance of 9000 5000 9522 Hadith says has been announced as if

00:53:35--> 00:53:36

we don't have a book called sight.

00:53:38--> 00:54:04

But our brothers in Sunni world they have got two book which is called site and another for sunnah. Which all of them is called Sahaj city. It means from A to Zed of this book is acceptable. They say say you Buhari is often Quran. You believe say Buhari A to Zed is right. So if I give you any reason from say Buhari, you don't have no right to deny. And I've given you a lot of them. Now listen to this

00:54:13--> 00:54:32

Abdulahi Abdullahi IDNA Massoud in Musnad. Ahmed humble I'll come to say Buhari later must not Ahmed humble very it's a must not book page 129 Volume five says that the two more Avada time it means Kula was a bit up the nurse Akula was a brat Bill falak is extra in Quran

00:54:35--> 00:54:35


00:54:37--> 00:54:40

please, please I mean it's not it's intellectual debate. It's not emotional please.

00:54:42--> 00:54:42


00:54:46--> 00:54:55

Yeah, exactly. It will disturbing me also half a SUTI Inderal monsoon. That's another tough scene of our Sunni brothers says

00:54:56--> 00:54:59

and obey he narrates from obey on volume

00:55:00--> 00:55:10

I have page 170 9k Fat takrut Surah HAZOP oh come out the HA, how you read chapter as up and how how many verses in chapter HAZOP is

00:55:11--> 00:55:27

well to Salah somewhere Sabrina, I am reading 73 For call obey kodra a to ha inner holla to Adil Surah Al Baqarah. The chapter that I saw it was equal to Chapter Baqarah

00:55:28--> 00:55:40

rocket Cara Anna FIFA FIFA and we used to read in that chapter what a shaker was shaken is azana Yah Farah Mohammed Al Bucha, Nicola Minerva

00:55:41--> 00:55:46

Fatima Farah Sorry, I forgot the point here. Ferengi Mohammed

00:55:48--> 00:55:50

thanks very much for reminding me.

00:55:51--> 00:55:57

When an old man in a world woman, they make Xena then have mercy upon them.

00:55:58--> 00:56:09

For Jim have mercy upon them and do stone I haven't translated wrongly for jumbo mean stone them. stone them to this

00:56:10--> 00:56:59

Nicola mean Allah forever I'm in homography and that is not in the in that in the present Quran that we have got anymore while this is in half is so ut in general Man suit which has one authorized staff series among among Sunni brothers Hafiz to UT also from IE generates Karna Surah to HAZOP Murthy Chapter II was 200 either in the time of Prophet, felon cutterbar or small Messiah has none yet there minha Allah Allah ma who Alon and when it was man wanted to connect this he did not manage to find more than this. And also we have from Hafiz ut from Abu Musa from also Buhari narrates from the second Khalifa says for carnamah Anza La Jolla torajan *a. An AHA

00:57:00--> 00:57:46

that Buhari narrates from Omar Abdullah cartop that there was an aria called ARIA to regimen Quran and that is not anymore in this in this Quran. So it's the chapter is Buhari, volume eight, page 28. And then there is Ayatollah Raghava in Quran which is also missing. And also even in the same chapter of material that we are talking about. There is a mustard record saying that we don't add this portion in that area, but it is has been added de ELO agilan Up to a certain time, and also other references. So brothers, the one who actually believe in tarrif of Quran it's not going to be us because we have written books against it, stacks of books and none of the authentic Allama of

00:57:46--> 00:58:27

annual beta Lima salaam, has believing that the station of Quran and Mirza Hussein in Nuri also has been criticized and all of those people who believe in the hadith of Quran has been criticized by us all the time. So brothers, I don't have really another Quran. So please don't push me to accept something which I didn't believe from the beginning. And I don't believe it up to the day of judgment. Even if Imam Mahdi Ali Salam comes and I want to just give you the last thing. Last reference which has been given here very shortly the complete Quran is with the 12 imam who is in hiding. See she assured creed page 110 And I have I will give this book to the brother for him to

00:58:27--> 00:58:36

read from A to Zed not only page 110 If he can find that reference from Quran from this, this this place I will announce that I am a Sunni