05 – History of Shi’asm
Channel: Taha Karaan
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Wanna shadow Allah Illallah when he or saw the hain
wanna shadow on NASA, you're gonna wanna be Yana, maulana Muhammad Abdullah, he was all I mean
Allahumma salli wa sallim wa barik ala Sayyidina Muhammad in Walla early, he thought hearing was hit by a
woman who whom their son in law Yomi. Dean, I'm about
sitting in the seat that I'm sitting in right now and have been sitting for the past few weeks.
It's not a pleasure.
It's not something
to take pride in.
That one sits here. And you have to dig out
cows out of history,
things that are that should have been forgotten.
issues that should have been passed by
and should have been eradicated.
From the memory
of Muslims in particular, humanity in general.
Why is it that we find it necessary to go back to history constantly?
Why can we not do as we are asked to do?
Take the car at face value. Don't go back to the books, don't look into the books, ask the car themselves.
Why can we not accept
that she has a nice dynamic
that he changes with the times that what was said yesterday, does not necessarily hold true for today any longer.
If it was possible that we could have taken such a path, then we could have simply shed the past and said that let the let the past deal with itself. We will only deal with the present. We will not concern ourselves with what happened once upon a time. But we are concerned exclusively with the present. And with the future. Where will Islam go from here onwards? And let's forget the past. If we could have done that,
then it might have been possible that we could
make our friends on the other side of the Sunni Shia divide, very happy.
The question is, are they prepared to let go of the past?
We might have been prepared to let go of the past. The question is, are they prepared to let go of the past?
If they were prepared to let go of the past? And none of those issues would still be existing today? Have they been prepared to let go of all of that? And when I speak about all of that I speak about the arcade? I speak about the fair Can I speak about the interpretation and about the specific approach to history had they been prepared to forego all of that?
To break the link with whatever they was, we would have been equally prepared to do the same. The fact of the matter is in any religious community.
continuity is of the utmost importance. What do we mean by continuity you define yourself by the roots that you come from.
We cannot simply say that let the past be the past we're going to change everything from this moment onwards things are going to be different. For reasons which we will seek insha Allah to spell out in this particular lecture of ours. We believe that to say that let go of the past don't go back to the books any longer. Don't go and dig out what is there. We believe that this is nothing but a smokescreen or a ruse. Some something designed to create a pretext, something designed to be a smokescreen, under cover of which the propagation of the very same Shiism of yesterday will continue unabated.
Therefore we cannot afford to let go of the past.
Similarly, the car themselves to cannot let go of the past who will never let go of the past. You will see it within a few weeks from now.
And every year in the first week, the first 10 days of Muharram. The lectures that are given building up from the first night to the second night to the third night, eventually culminating on the day of Ashura. The constant repetition of what happened once upon a time in the past, the constant repetition of a story of martyrdom and betrayal.
That constant retelling that incessant recollection of an event of the past that in itself tells us that this year, I will never be prepared to leave
Golf the past, therefore, we cannot do the same.
We have to know the past in order to know where the future is, in order to know from here where the future where the present is rather and to know where the future is going to go from here.
We have looked at the concept of imama defined it looked at the various
putative Quranic routes, alleged Quranic routes for it and show how none of that was applicable. What we have been doing over the past few weeks, has caused quite a bit of
There's been quite a bit of turbulence in the air. People have taken
to this particular program in different ways. The numbers with which people such as yourselves have responded week after week after week, show that this there is a great interest and interest that still hasn't flagged.
On the other hand, there are others who have taken offense.
And they have taken offense to the extent that post mortems are being done over the air
publicly naming names, quoting words. Why so it's because we've been trampling upon certain very, very sensitive those certain those that do not want to be trampled upon. From the beginning, we have said that there are two phases to Shiism, there is the very nice side about it. And for those who are interested in that particular side, there are those who dispense it to them. But there is another side to Shiism, which everyone has a right and not only a right but under present circumstances a duty to know about and that is why we have undertaken this particular program in order to make everyone aware of the fact that there is another side. And if that side won't be told
from this particular platform, no one is going to tell it. Therefore, despite the turbulence despite the opposition, despite the disturbance in the air, we have decided to go ahead for each reason because you have a right to know because our society has a need to know that there is another side to these issues. Coming back to our topic, a mama. A mama as we have seen is the belief
that allowed Allah has appointed after Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, a number of rulers of the soma. The oma has no right to decide to elect rulers. On its own account, it has to accept those particular rulers appointed by loudhailer as it has no right to select a NaVi it has no right to select the successor of a newbie. You and I have grown up on a system of belief whereby Abubakar dlo and was elected as the halifa after Rasulullah, sallAllahu wasallam and Omar after him and Othman after him and olive nebia Talib after him.
This year I have a completely different approach. They say that that leader is divinely appointed. So from there we learn that they have this belief called a mama today we want to go into another aspect of this belief of a Mama. Mama means then believe in the divine right of the Ahlul bait and when we speak about the Ahlul, Vaidya then in the parlance in a particular language, it means that to those 12 imams on the whole, but not the rest of the alone, but not the other children of those particular humans but only that particular line allegiance to that line allegiance to those imaams of the alone by whom they believe appointed by law that are starting from Olive, Vitali passing
through her son, his son,
the other son cosign, and then nine from the gentleman from st one after the other until they reach the 12th, on whom they believe to be an occultation. Now, part of that belief of imama is something called Walla. There is something called wonder what is it what are ovilla as it is also called sometimes it means to adopt a particular attitude towards that Imam. It is an attitude of support, an attitude of love, of respect of dedication, you are, you are respectful, a loving and a dedicated member of the party of that Imam
Wallah by its very nature and by the way, it has been unpacked and explained by the Shia themselves has another angle to it. A concomitant a corollary angle, something that goes together with it at the same time, and that other angle is called Ba, sometimes referred to these two terms as ta one Li and Tabori. Sometimes they refer to them as walaa and barah.
To explain it better.
It just so happens this morning I was standing in a queue.
People won't understand this kind of example because this kind of issues that goes about in society I'm standing in a queue and two chaps are speaking in front of me. Now one is wearing an old
blacks jersey. So the other ones start speaking to you see, where did you buy the jerseys in the waterfurnace of Uncle dakka dakka and they talk in the talking, the one tells the other you know what?
I've got a Springbok jersey. But I'll tell you one thing about the Springbok jersey, it's very, very good for washing your car. Nothing washes a car as well as a Springbok jersey, not want to point out to you this is an example of hula and Bara in action. Because the person has so much support for the one side, automatically even the jersey of the other side is not good enough any longer. The Jersey is only good enough for washing a car. Next to Castle Lake Blanca thrombo jozini.
This is more or less the direct words of this person. This is Wanda and Barra. You're such an old black supporter that even the jersey of the others forget the players forget the manager forget everything else, even the Jersey is not good enough. Now this is what happens in one bar, you're loving the steak of the Ahlul bait becomes so severe, so exaggerated, that those whom you conceive to be the enemies of the animal bait are the words that you can find under the sun. So it is a love hate complex. It is a matter of loving the one to such an extent that you go beyond the acceptable limits. What do we mean by beyond the acceptable limits, you raise them even above the status of the
MBR hemos Salatu was salam, as we have seen, that's exaggeration on the one side, such exaggeration can never be without its concomitant its corollary. What is that corollary, such exaggerated love will inevitably go side by side hand in hand on exaggerated hatred.
And all that hatred be
told who that hate would be that hatred would be to those whom you then as he conceived of as the enemies of the Avalon bite, the albite you love them to the extent that you take them to the level above that of the ambia way for the enemies of the unknown bait, you have to hate them to a certain extent, where you take them to levels even below that of shaitan.
In this thing, wala, and ba are intrinsically part of he thought they cannot be divorced from me to the extent that ci writers such as Mullah ibaka Muslims in others have said that this kind of approach whereby your lovely one, and you hate the other is inseparable from theory thought is one of the undeniable aspects of Shiism, it cannot be a real shame if you do not love the One Two birds and hide the other one to access as well.
This is not an ancient belief. This belief continues within the Shia up to the present day as well, as much as they would not like us to speak about it. As much as it would make them uncomfortable to hear things such of this nature being spoken in a public forum. We have a right and we have a need to know about these things. Why? Because that same she is in which espouses beliefs such as this is still knocking on our doors today and telling us that your belief is not the right one come over to our side. So we have a right to know.
This belief does not belong to ancient Shiism alone. It was there once upon a time, it found its expression in the worst possible ways. Once upon a time. It continues today. In the present time it continues. I would want to make mention of one. There's such a lot to quote, but one specific incident. It goes back to about 10 years from now. But 1012 years from now, in the city of Rome. Now the city of Rome would be in the probably the one of the two most important academic studies for this year. Were their mother is the universities, where Darla looms as such are two major cities in the share Well, one in Ilan one in Iraq. In Iraq, there is a city of Najaf, where they believe they
now live maybe Talib lies buried in Iran, there is a city of calm. The city of calm is where they believe one of the descendants of Sinaloa Vitaly, a lady called Alma su mochila, is buried there. Anyway, that became the major intellectual and academic center in Iran. That's where all the students go to study. In the city. Now the city is full of work full of students, full of scholars. Wherever you look, you will find them in this particular city. One of the senior ayatollahs of the city is someone called Ayatollah Hussain Wahid al Hassani, one of the oldest, most senior scholars of the city have come. I think he is still alive. At the time when he made these statements. He was
very close to his late 80s or
Ready, allow Arlen. Anyway, I'm going to read out. He was speaking to who he was speaking to the students of the city of Rome. He was speaking to those students and telling them what are their duties when they return to the various countries.
in our V Fatah, como si, si ya, that Allah ha Sophie amrhein, your most basic and essential duty, it boils down to two points and two points alone. When you go away from here. These are now the Sunni and the Shia students tomorrow to become the owner of the CIA World. Your duty is as simple it can be reduced to two things and two things alone The first is a horror so without the Mahabharata Ali and Ali Salaam feel, you must go out into the world and implant the seed of the love of Allah Vitali and after thereafter the unknown by in the hearts of people. Now there is not much opposition I can I can have two ideas such as that. I leave Napa Valley with someone very close to our hearts as
well. I live near the valley to us is a Sunday Nova suta Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, his cousin and the fourth of the hula fara Shireen so implanting the heart the love of Allah may be valid in the hearts of people something we can identify with. Something that resonates well with us. The second part However, anomala BNF cyl Mustafa will make Dar wudu Nakai the and Malati min Farah pinata fall within my umbrella well, together with this first one, we have to make as much effort with the same degree of dedication with that same degree equal in every respect to the first one. There is another seed that we have to implant in the hearts of people as well. I'll observe I build
the ball the horsey be happy FICO Lubin oma. to the same extent we have to work equally hard to plan in the hearts the hatred of those who deprived Ali of the khilafah.
As much as we must work he tells those students to implant the love of Ali. Allow the Allahu anhu we must work equally hard without one fingerlings of difference to implant within the hearts of the people of the soma. The hatred of those who deprived Alia of the khilafah wa Alamo is not finished. He tells us students and an ohmmeter Gemma be away he tells them that this entire oma Sato bla bla not in wanaque matin Sharmila tiene la yo Allah Ma Ma ha, either vihara Bina Tali whatever Rita wautoma, our barraza Shea mineral fairy paper in a homer, one will be cuddling with Carl era. He says that if the love of Ali and the hatred of the enemies of Ali are not equal to the last atom,
then this own mamas know that Allah Lana is going to descend upon them. Such a Lana such a curse is going to descend upon them that they do not know what lies beyond it. Therefore, one when one looks at it in this way, what remains to speak about when you say we have to have unity with one another. If such ideas are imprinted into the minds of the CIA students graduating going out into the into the world thereafter, when they are when they are taught when it is implanted in their minds, that hatred of those conceived of as having deprived early of his of his khilafah must be implanted in every Muslim heart.
How does it come about? Why is it that they have such deep rancor in hatred in their hearts? For those people whom Allah tala had said, when when you speak of them, what must you say? robina Filipina Ye Hua Nina Latina Saba una de man waneta janhvi pulumi novella lilina that we have to make a state of ourselves first, then we have to make a state of art for them. And we say Allah Do not place any hatred in our heart, there are hearts that are filled to capacity with hatred of those people. Why is it such Why must it be such it is such because of this very idea of what of a mama, this idea of a mama is not an innocent idea. It's not something that says simply love the animal by
it says at the same time, hey, those are the enemies of the unknown, but those must be hated because that is one of the implications of this imama that the sheep are believing.
They are hardy Hardys, the books have a heartbeat of this year. Our phone once again to capacity was a hadith in which they speak of the Sahaba below on him in ways that you and I will find it very, very difficult to stomach when she asked me that question. On the way here the question that he had mentioned to you that question. I think anyone who has studied Shiism to some extent, will know that the very first idea you get when you start delving deep into the books of the car, is that
Anger in your heart? Why is it such Why must people say such things? Why is it such that a member
of those who claim themselves to be the followers of the Imams, he must come to Imam zainul RBD and ask him that Oh, mmm, tell me about these two people tell me over the weekend, Omar, what must I think about them? And he says, Kathy, ronica ferramenta Allahumma that each one of them is a caffeine and anyone who believes them to be good as a caffeine along with them. Why is it always a concept of hatred and love? hated to the extreme love to the extreme? Why must it be such? Is it possible that those two things could actually be divorced from one another? If that is possible, then the route to unity is open. If that's not possible, then the unit of view is the road unity
will never remain open. We're not saying that it's impossible to have this kind of unity. But in order to have that unity, we must go back to what we spoke about last week. There it is very, very possible to have unity, if the Shia from within themselves are prepared to have dialogue and decide what do you really believe.
Every year we find them haram celebrations come along, not celebrations, the commemorations they would say those commemorations of Muharram. whereby they recollect every year, year after year the things that the very very sad things that befell the whole by it.
What is it that they speak about there? They speak about the murder of Satan Al Hussein at Karbala, it's a very very sad event. But beyond the work lies connected with it, is that only
the depth of sine and cosine the murder of sine and cosine of Karbala, by his even his evil minions? Is that all that it is all about? Listen to some of the other Hadith of the Shia. They say a person comes again to Nam zainul RBD and Allah knows that demons en la vd never spoke words such as these, but the person comes in and Xena RBD and asks him, tell me again about Abubakar mama he says ma Katara Katara to mean that domina wala dammy Aha, the middle Muslim Mina Illa here we are anokhi Hema Isla yo milky Yama, no drop of blood has ever been shed of our blood of the albedo, or any other blood of any other Muslim from now to the day of karma, except that who is responsible for it.
Abu Bakar and Omar is responsible for it. They are the ones that so when that commemoration takes place, it is something that purports to be an occasion whereby they vent the anger against yazeed. And again shamer and against Omar bin Saad and those people who are involved in the killing of Zainal prosign. It goes beyond that. It goes far beyond that, where does it go? From there it starts it says that the this is bad the outcome This is only the eventual fruit of something of a seed that was planted many many years before that. Which seed was that? That was a seed planted the day Abubakar took the hill off. That was the first injustice shown to the unknown by it is an account of
that first injustice that all these other injustices occurred afterwards. And therefore, when we curse he as he they say we curse together with him who Abubakar must be cursed as well. Omar must because as well in fact he as it is but a small fry compared to those two other ones on there, how do you go on to say that in jahannam, there is a very, very special but there is a very, very special well, that well is such that when jahannam starts losing its intense heat, when he starts losing the intensity of his heat, and Allah wants to make that heat more increase that intensity, then and only then the lid of that particular oil is lifted. When the lid of that while is lifted.
The heat that emanates from there, increases the intensity of jahannam all over that part is cared for go back and former alone.
That is only if I were back in the home or no, that's for them. VEDA Raja and Johanna is lower than that of shavon
shavon will have a good time he janam compared to what the two of them will get. Now there is a certain picture coming across here this is not the Abu Bakr phenomena that I know of. This is not the Abu Bakr and Omar
that as I said once before Gandhi the non Muslim could tell the first group of ministers of independent India if you want to know how to conduct yourself as a ruler of a state look at the example of those to look at Abu Bakr and Omar that's what I just realized. Like here we getting a completely different picture. This doesn't only belong to engineers, this belongs to xi alamar. Living alive and kicking today. This is Khomeini and his students. This is just about every she a walking out there. However, when we face them when we come face to face to face,
with them, we get a different picture. Not too long ago,
at UCT, there was an incident. So there was a
pamphlet published. And then there was a response to that pamphlet. The response to the template came from the animal bite foundation in the vet road. And the response to that pamphlet states that we this year I have no hatred Now at first havlat, Abu Bakr and Omar.
Now, is this a reformist attitude? Is this now he was decided that all of us have the past we have been wrong, we should not have said all of these things. Or is this a case of plain and simple deception?
If you want to know what it is really about, let's look at how the Shia view the Imams how they view the Imams, and how do they say what teachings? What are the teachings that they imants gave them
a code of life to live by?
A few incidents one incident that have also suffice to tell us how easy that they conceive of these exams. What kind of people are they? This question of Abu Bakr and Omar has been a very, very sensitive and central question we saw last week I mentioned the incident of Satan as a demon allinial Hussein, who led the Jihad was abandoned by 40,000. Shiraz simply because he said something good about Abu Bakr and Omar, this was a constant question going around. Every now and then the same question came up. The same question came up in the time of saying Allah Vitaly when he heard people saying that he is better than a MOBA Muhammad he says la otan nbia Rajan in your for benoni Allah be
back in Myanmar in La Jolla to huddle
if someone comes to me and say that I'm better than Abu Bakr and Omar I'm gonna give him 40 or 80 lashes 80 lashes I'm gonna give him that was say in Alibaba live in his time that he will say no, that was merely a case of tequila. He was only saying so to deceive someone. A similar story zainul RBD in his grandson, someone comes to him and asks him about Abubakar no sorry, not saying labin this was Jaffa sodic mm jofra saw that it is claimed that someone comes in on Java Sadiq Khan says that
tell me about obachan Omar say ma'am Java sodic says that
Homer eema man er de la nicasio bonica. Now, if
the person says Alhamdulillah you spoken the truth. These there were those were two imams just imants fE imaams they were up on how can they dial up on Huck. The person goes away.
The other sitting there they asked the Imam How come you gave a person such an answer all along? We've had a different kind of story. Why giving him answer? And he chuckles and he smiles and he laughs He says leave these people. They don't understand what I said. So what did you say? He says you know I said Ghana Houma. eema man, now Amanda will certainly they are imams because Allah says in the Quran, Allah amin whom are immature, the owner Ilana, there are those emails that go towards the fire.
And what else did I say? I say the ardila and you and I when we are there other lady. What does it mean? It means to be just he says Nathan Molina cafaro Bobby Miyagi loon the other day means to make shellcode Allah so not ideal in the sense of someone who is just but someone who does work from Allah vena cava robinia de Lune those are people who equate others with Allah and then I said Thirdly, Cassie upon you might think kasi pan comes from the word kiss, which also means justice. He says, No, I'm Mel Casa de una cannoli Johanna Maha Baba. The cost, it means that those are those are those unjust people who will be the fuel of jahannam one day. And then I said Karna, Allah Huck,
they were up on a hop. It's like we say, Alexa Sato behalf, they took the hack away and they were sitting upon it, and they died sitting up on the hog that had belonged to him. There wasn't there, Huck, you getting the impression of a person here? Who is speaking in what into tongues, speaking in order to deceive people, telling a person something and meaning something else by this is exactly the doctrine of the year. This is a doctrine of nakiya Why is the key used we will hear people speaking very very glowingly about the key and how necessary is it to make the clear, but the key to a person such as this will ask you a simple question about Abu Bakr and Omar and you speak in a
forked tongue to do what was he going to do any harm to you? And I want to tell you something else. At that time when a man Jaffa sodic was alive, there was someone else alive as well. His name was imaam Abu hanifa.
The soltana of the time was Abu Jafar almanzora told him Abu hanifa wanted to be my party. He says I don't want to be the party. He says but you must be micardis I don't want to be the coffee. So what does he do? He says I'm going to last year I'm into work he says work me but I don't want to be your coffee. And Imam Abu hanifa was worked to within an inch of his life. There was
Now there was another person called EMA Malik Ibn us living in Medina at the same time
and he was narrating a hadith from Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam
Lazar al Mustafa he I mean, if a person is forced to take an oath that oath doesn't apply to me it's not bound by that oath any longer. The Sultan, the Khalifa at the time had a problem with that because many times those calibers force people to take the oath of allegiance to them. And then eration of a hadith such as this has certain implications for those who love an MSG centromere Malik You better stop narrating this hadith all else. nomadic says this hadith is a hadith of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, I will narrate the hadith of Rasulullah sallallahu Sallam no one will come between me and the dissemination of knowledge. The Sultan warns him he continues narrating a
hadith of Salalah alayhi wa sallam is taken into custody and work to such an extent that his arm is completely dislocated. His back is filled with lashes thereafter, but he did not stand back in in in what in the face of bottle. If Huck was to be upheld, he did not speak in with a forked tongue. He spoke with justice he spoke with courage he spoke with bravery. Then later on, there was who mm Shafi moto lyerly goes down to Yemen. He is brought from Yemen in chains because he's accused of in of conspiring against the government of the time. He is brought marching from chains through the heat of the desert, but he doesn't speak in a forked tongue. He doesn't. He does not compromise
principle doesn't compromise truth. Truth is truth. After him lazy mama demon humble Rahmatullah Holly. At that time, the halifa at the time was who moon wanted to force everyone into the martyrs he believed that the Quran is created. Many were those who gave in many were those afraid of the whip afraid of the sword, who gave in for the sake of the halifa force them mad even humble Raj not Allah, Allah stands man alone, and he takes the punishment that the halifa heaps upon him, he is last and last again unless a third time till he almost expires, you almost dies from that lashing but he says Huck, well the main hub the Quran is uncreated word of Allah.
These were men who are prepared to give the life for the sake of how are we to believe that the descendants of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, the descendants of Assad Ulla Hill, Holly Olive, now Vitaly had so little courage had so little bravery, that for the least little reason they would resort to tequila. Then they will tell people a duck here to Dini, where the new tequila is my Dean and the Dean of my father's, to the extent that they would even say this to our Sherry Dean, nine tenths of our religion is stuck here.
Why is this how people pay respect to the unknown bite take that appear even further?
In the time of the hill of obscene aliveness, Vitaly rhodiola, who are known
in the time of the khilafah, Omar Muhammad Ali, Allah who say nalli had a daughter, young daughter just into her teens. Her name was omocha Thome.
So either now Omar wants to be connected to the family of Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam. He proposes marriage to the young daughter of olive navia Dolly, say Nikolaevna Vitaly gives his daughter omo consuming marriage to amagno hapa.
She Bay's a child from him Zayn, even Omar is the son of the oma Colombian, Taliban Vitaly.
This is a major problem for the Shia, is this that same Omar is going to be worse than shaitan was the fear out of this oma
is Can this be the same person?
So they have various different ways of explaining it away? The one says that he you know he was forced to do so you and I if we have daughters and someone comes and says the gangster comes your house and says give your daughter or else are you going to give your daughter?
No we are asked to believe that say now Olive never had so little courage had so little backbone within him that he just gave in and gave his daughter to Omar which Omar that shaytan called Omar
that's one way of explaining it. Three definitely Why are in four old coffee stay.
affirm the fact that omocha was married to amadablam hubub one of them go on to state something which
very difficult to translate in front of everyone. The same Java sodic is out about us about Tomoko film, he says hover over oferuje in OC by me in this and I'm gonna try and be somewhat or dent like about this translation. This is the first of our women that was forcibly possessed. This is omocha Thome.
Daughter of holly daughter Fatima, granddaughter of Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, someone comes along and tells us that this woman was forcibly possessed by Omar blue hot tub.
Some others have a different explanation.
When they found that this kind of explanations don't work, they say no, you see what really happened was this that when Omar came to me and said that give your daughter or else
Ali found that he could do very little, but he was possessed of powers, supernatural powers. So what he did, he called a female ginia female Genie, transformed into the shape of Makoto Musa, you go and live with Omar when Omar died, he called her back and he transformed back into a Jean jbsa. Now you go back home. This is how we explain history. This is history now, this is a story of goodbody in Rwanda, in his book Algeria will have a horizon July. This is how we are supposed to understand what the annual budget were like that when they couldn't, then they would resort to mean such as this.
olive natali without the allowance and how many sons all of us know he had Hassan and Hussein, but he had other sons after Hassan and Hussein as well. After say either faulty metal, the Aloha passed away, six months after Rasulullah sallallahu Sallam he married otherwise, and he had a lot of other sons. And one son was called Abu Bakar. And one son was called Omar and one sunwell was called off man.
So she has a good explanation for that tool. She had to make the clear exactly the piano visit affair. Some way it has to stop. So they had one explanation. They say one day, someone hurts in early calling is and the man says How could you call us and he says, No, I didn't call you after a fun that's a bad one. I called him after of man even mother owned that greater hobby. So then, if he that was off, man, even if only Abubakar was named after who and Omar was the name after Who? And was Ali Vitali be the only one on any sensible back and forth man. And this forget our Sunni sources go to kita boullier Shadow Shaman feed is translated in English and can be found with this year's go
in there the names of the children of alumina Vitaly Melissa de Abubakar, they are listed there as well. And Hassan Ali had a number of sons two of his sons will call Omar and Othman and Jose in them, Natalie had a son called Homer and Zeno. RBD in Edison, his two sons called Abubakar Norma and Moosa alcovy one of the 12 imams at Assam call Abu Bakr no mana daughter call Ayesha. What do we learn from there? We learn from the the love and respect that existed between the Sahaba Ravi Allah at home and the albedo. Do we find any kind of indication in here that the Sahaba was such enemies of the FBI that they oppress them at every point that they took away the Huck whenever they wanted
to. And for that reason that they will be the worst of people who will the biggest of kafar for whom only that lowest part of Johanna means that there is something very, very wrong with that kind of idea of history. something extremely wrong with the idea of history, which says that on the one hand, you'll find this very good Sahaba on the other hand, very bad Sahaba and on the other hand, you'll find that I don't buy that I've gone to a status higher than that of the Gambia. This is part and parcel of what EMA is all about. This is what we speak about when you say Wallah and barah. This is what little she our children are brought up to believe that you have to love them a little bit
and you have to hate the enemies of the unknown by therefore when the money comes, and here we share the essential idea of a money. We also believe there will be a Monday he will be from the albedo she also have the same idea, but the personality of the Mahi and the deeds of that Mahi is completely different to what we have. They say when that Maddie comes he will march upon McCann Medina. When he comes to Medina, he will dig out those two evil fellows where they lie next to Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam. He will dig their bodies out and crucified upon a tree.
And the people will ask him obviously those people are not of his followers, those people will be normal. Muslims soon is now saying Why are you doing this? He says you wait and see. So he crucifies those two bodies on the tree and suddenly that dead tree blooms into life. Suddenly the flowers come out suddenly the leaves come out and the people say Matthew we knew there was something wrong with you. There is not something wrong with these two bodies look at the bark of these two bodies honestly look at what has happened. He says this was only to deceive you this was only to test you now I know that you are so nice and then he will burn their bodies and kill all the rest of those
people as well. So don't think the money is coming for America and for all those other enemies of Islam is coming from Oh First of all, it's coming from welcome is coming in for Omar is coming for Ayesha, whose body will be dug out of Genova because she must be given the punishment of Xena because now to be less she was guilty of the sin of Xena after us
This is part and parcel of the AEC that is not being given out there.
This kind of history won't be dispense out there. But this is the kind of history which will eventually Not now, eventually it'll come into play. What is this such as this? How much grounds or how much ground stone remain for unity? What can we say? Can we have unity? Can't we have unity?
Despite everything that we have said, despite the depth of the hurt and the anger that we feel as lasuna? Well, Gemma, when we hear this kind of statements, despite all of that, I will still go to the extent of saying that it is possible to have that unity provided. What's the proviso, the proviso is that the she has started the dialogue from within their own house, what kind of dialogue, not that kind of dialogue which will be Imani rd, Lani casita, Anika National Hockey family, you cannot expect us to simply believe what you say, simply because you say it, because we know that it is part and parcel of that particular religion. to twist the truth to bend the truth sometimes for
the sake of what is expedient is part and parcel of that religion. Don't look in the books of the Shia, what is the meaning of in a chronicle mind Allah here at koco? You and I think that it means that the most noble of people is the one who has the most taqwa. No. As the Imams of the Shia, they say the most noble of people is he'll make the most clear at aku means he will makes the most Takia.
So when we are faced with people such as this dialog, what kind of dialogue is there going to be?
It is undeniable that within the ranks of the she has they are reformers. There are those who want to get away from this old history. There are those who say that we've had enough this can go on that the bridge that divides us from the Hello sooner, it will continue growing further and further, that the big yawning chasm which separates us It will just grow further and further away. Unless these issues are addressed. That dialogue, we say, we've got no part in the dialogue. We have a Houston novel jamara we have been here, we have been for three centuries or more at this particular part of the world. We need no one to come and inform us that our Deen is not valid any longer. Least of all,
we need someone who still hasn't fixed up who still hasn't decided where he stands in his own Legion with need do not need such a person to come tell us what our Legion is supposed to be all about. There is a need for dialogue, that dialogue must start with in the house of the Shia, they themselves must leave at this visit these issues, those of them who will come forward and said that yes, we have to abandon the idea that the Quran has been corrupted, we have to abandon the idea of the sub Sahaba of the cursing of the Sahaba and making cover of the Sahaba. All those who are prepared to do so must however, realize that that's not where it ends. You cannot simply say I no
longer accept this, but I accept that. You know what, that same person who has narrated a hadith from the FBI, to tell you make Salah in this particular way, that same person that eight of the Hadith of the Sahaba and the Hadith of the Quran as well, are you going to accept him as a valid authority here and reject him as an authority they, if you reject him as an authority, when in the rageous kinds of things about the Sahaba you must never reject him as an authority when he tells you you make Salah with a stone in front of you as well.
One of the things that come up a lot that we as our listeners are probably going to face with a lot. Now there are certain instances, certain major events in these lives of hours, where you have to get together and do certain things together and one of those incidents is going to be no time when someone dies. Then we come together Serato janazah is going to be performed.
Many times if it's a mixed family, someone asked the question a while ago What if you have someone in the family is he and so on? And we have had instances of people coming and say look, I'm a CA my father might be a Sunni but I'm in charge I'm taking his body I'm taking into the veteran we making our own Salah Pani. How much do we know what the fate of the CR teaches about Genesis Allah? Did you know what the Shia are instructed to read when they may Salatu janaza upon a Sunni body.
Listen to it. You and I know first lblv read what Fatiha second tag be read Salawat Allah NaVi is Allah Allah and third that we will make the offer that that person that she also make dua if it's one of them, by the way, they make five that builds, we make four they make five
but after the third build, what do they do? If the person is one of them, they make dwelve instead of our if that person is not one of them.
Listen to the law that they say the man stood them. Allah whom the coffee
Allahumma Asli he ushered dinaric Allahu
Allah whom Milan phoolan and alfalah Anna mortally fatten Oliver Allahumma
adekola Bella was Lee harana were the co sharada before translating this year first the incident where it comes from
a person dies in Medina ehemaligen Hussein is going for the genocide one of his alleged Shia followers he ma'am you're going for the janaza this Muna Now I'm using the word manavi comes in at hardeeville I at Allah, Abul Qasim and holy i Tula bubble cassiel whoa he was the great g murgia. The great ci leader on the follow in matters of Dean, he died in about the early 90s not too long ago. Then he says what is meant by a monarchy appear monkey rule wilaya you don't believe in Him ama.
So the Imam is going for the Genesis alpha Monifieth he is followed tells him a yoga for the janaza he says you come with me stand next to me and listen carefully to what I read then you will know how to conduct yourself when you go to the janazah of a Sunni you must need Allahumma ahaziah abda Cafe baddeck urbinati Allah disgraced the servant of yours between all your other servants in in all your lens. Allah home lastly he or shad dinaric Allah make him burn in the most intense of your fires. Allah hum the kohara Daddy, Allah lating taste the heat of your other Allah whom Milan phoolan and Allah curse this person alfalah unknotting 1000 curses upon him more utterly forgotten hieromartyr
leafa 1000 curses all together at once not separated. And then the duar goes again Allahumma caffee bad and he goes on.
This is that particular thing called a jar fairy mother.
Now you and I Sonia Shafi Hanafi when we make guava one another way we do often stay far from one another. This is not just another malherbe. Last week we spoke about this thing called the Java EE madhhab. The Java EE must have this very word. And the very idea the various attempt to identify and equate the Shia with a Medina of the hallucigenia is a deception in itself in the year 17 143 17 143. What happened in Iran 200 years 250 years before that, the Shia did the Silver Surfer, which took over two and a half centuries later, that's that dynasty crumbled. The Hills I have hands attack them, and they crumble. The safavid dynasty died forever. Some a new leader took
over in Iran. He was called Nadia Shah, Nadia Shah took over. And he once again brought stability into the lens of the of the CEO of Iran. But then he realized something he realized what is the reason why there is always enmity between Iran and his neighbors to the east Iran, head of honey Stan Sudanese, they have problems with them all the time. There's war, raging between themselves in Afghanistan to the ways they had the Ottoman Empire, constant war with the Ottoman Empire. If you want stability within your own home, how are you going to gain that stability, not simply by waging war by negotiating. So what does he do? He comes to know Jeff, he comes to the city of Najaf, he
brings the whole Armada
together. From his side there comes the moon Dabashi Ali Akbar, his chief moonlights call Ali Akbar, from Baghdad becomes a child, the Shafi removed, Abdullah, Swati Abdullah, sweetie Mullah Ali Akbar, engage in a debate for several days at the end of this particular debate, they all get together, and they're going to write a Furman they're going to write a statement, and eventually Nadia Shah would then write a letter to the Ottoman Empire to the Ottoman Allah. This statement is has been preserved, has been translated several times. This statement states the following
this he are the followers of Imam Jafar Assad, they are just the jaffery malherbe the other mother Eva, the followers of Abu hanifa, Malik, and Shafi there is no difference between them. However, the Persians on account of having been misled by the AMA, for so many years have indulged in the habit of cursing the Sahaba and doing all these kinds of things that cause the cause hurt and injured to the heart of the fellow Sudanese. But now we have decided to eradicate this practice once and for all. What will this Yama become, it'll just become a Jaffa hub. What about all those excrescences all those unnatural outgrowths of the Shia, the go to the extent of denying the validity of the
things about the Sahaba he said that has come to an end we never gonna indulge in that any longer. This is what we are prepared to offer the Sunni world in return we want something from you from the Sunni world. What is it that they want now around the Kaaba in those days they were former comes. The old people the old shoe who studied in the market Also remember, there was a macom Shafi there was a macom Hanafi. In other words, the shafia Imani leads us Allah He will stand there with alchemy. Brahim is on that side. The Hanafi man will stand there with the hottie means and the humble emomali Hema each one has a macom.
What's his name? Nadia Shah says I want the first macom for the jaffery mother. And then something else he says every year, one of the mother he'd get the chance to be the Amil Hodge, one of the Ola from one of them or that he was appointed as the leader of the hedge of that year. We want one year to leave the delegation of hedge with the jaffery malherbe as well. This was a very positive step because it shows that people are prepared to get out of the past. Forget all of those things, proscribe it, take it away, throw it away, eradicated, and just move forward. What was the result?
The result was at Nadia Shaw was assassinated by his own people. Why was he assassinated those who assassinated those who assassinated him they accused him that he had abandoned Shiism. He had not abandoned she hasn't he tried to reform she ism. The fact of the matter is she ism does not want to be reformed. They did not want to be reformed in British India. Every year on the 10th of Muharram. They used to take place this Marlin commemorative gatherings in those things that she has used to have it and then they start cursing when they start cursing. It starts from where it starts from year zero. It goes on to Maria. It's not it won't be 100 years before whose name starts coming in
the original usurpers, Abu Bakr and Omar Sudanese obviously are not going to sit still when that happens, and they responded, how did they respond? Sometimes the responses took the form of violence. Sometimes the response took the form of something else what was it something else, alternative processions in which they go out and speak about Maduro Sahaba in which they praise the Sahaba the Allahu anhu. But inevitably, these two processions would come to clash with one another, fights would ensue and what will happen they will start killing one another blood will be shed. So the British decided in 1920, the British decided this was 27 years before the independence of India
1920 the British decided they will no longer allow shear celebrate commemorative gatherings coming out in the streets. You want to have it have it in your massage, you have it in your house and he has ever done email matters but not in the street. And you soon is want to have gatherings to speak about Sahaba Yamasaki nothing public any longer. So anyway, that was since 1920, almost 100 years, it's about 90 years.
In the late 1980s.
The shear of India
the 60 years 60, almost 70 years since the original banning order by the British, when India became independent, that same bending order was just kept in place. No Sundays, no she has don't come out on the street and make trouble. Just stay at home or stay in your masajid in the late 1980s, to Shia persons
protesting for the right to bring out those positions in the street and publicly curse not just yours even more, but Abubakar mahama as well. They protesting and the protest of which form, they immolated themselves publicly, they burn themselves public to say, we are prepared to go to this extent, but the right of cursing the Sahaba belongs to us, we want that right back. This is how deeply this idea lies within them. Because remember what we said originally, to them, the idea of loving the animal by has to be exactly equal to hating the enemies of the animal by it. When they come into society such as ours, however, they know that those who we will they regard as the enemies
of hell, they live very, very close to our hearts. Therefore they will adopt a different method. When they come to us and say, well, we don't hide the Sahaba the Aloha anthem, when they start saying that Hadhrat, Abu Bakr and Omar and all of these things, then we should ask ourselves, is this something really honest? Or is it a blatant insult to the intelligence of our listener?
When we go into the car literature and read certain things in the books, I say, don't read the books. Don't read the books ask us what we believe. I tend to believe that the books are a better reflection than that particular sheer walking on the street. Because when the write the book, the chances of taqiyya are much, much less. However, when they speak to you. That tongue is known to be a forked tongue, that tongue
Goodness, the way it speaks in its doublespeak, it's tongue in cheek ness is something which they believe now the beloved the Imams had also told them therefore they will always resort to things such as this nature. Those amongst us who really believe in reform will have to start this particular debate amongst them
to speak, to just give an example to give
us something to judge it by something to understand what it looks like, in this country of ours. Since 1961, when the Union of South Africa became the Republic of South Africa, there was a party ruling this country. That party was called the National Party.
Those old chaps for work,
and foster and Milan, baby Bertha and all of those chips. They rule this country once upon a time and eventually came to an end with the rule of Fw de Klerk.
But the National Party did not come to an end. So went on. Fw went and Martinez came along. And Gerald came along and a few other fellows like that, eventually what happened to the National Party?
There is no national party any longer. Why not? Because they realized
what the National Party stood for, once upon a time cannot be perpetuated in New South Africa any longer. The kind of things that we associated with a national party.
Whether you call it a new national party, or an old National Party, it's still the National Party. So Martinez, fun Skagway took a very, very logical step and close the party. Why that party had no role to play any longer. They realize something that baggage of the past, it's not something just shared it and move along that baggage of the past, not just share it, share it in close shop. Say that that particular part of history is over, that party is over gone join the ANC can join the DA for that matter gun join the freedom front. But the National Party cannot exist any longer. It has no role. What is required right now, from amongst the ranks of the Shia, there have to be those men,
courageous enough, brave enough, honest enough to start making the necessary changes going to the real depth, not just a few cosmetic changes and outside cosmetic changes remind us too much of that 30 year of saying that we love the Sahaba and all of that no, not just that. It is something that has to be much further reaching than just saying we don't curse the Sahaba any longer, that we don't believe in the Hadith of the Quran any longer. You don't believe in that eve of the Quran but you still rely upon those very same old Lama who said that the eve of the Quran was there. You're not prepared to say that by saying so they went out of the fold of Islam Why is that? So? Because those
all of those who made those statements who said these things about the Sahaba these are the cornerstones of Shiism, if these cornerstones are taken out the entire edifice of Shiism comes crumbling down. So while they are prepared to say we don't curse as a harbor, we asked what do you say about those who do because the Sahaba? When when while you are prepared to say that we don't believe that the Quran has been tampered with? Are you prepared to reject? Are you prepared to reject that entire legacy of Kashi or the fic and the Hadeeth and aqeedah ended up seeing all those people who said these things, that's where they draw the line, that's where they won't go beyond it.
This is the call today, the call is not that the aluna must convert to she isn't. The call is that she is a massage realizing that there's something very very wrong within the house. As long as that is not addressed. There is no way that we're going to move for unity further unity is possible these other requirements, these other provisions either schroot once these conditions are fulfilled, then we can speak to one another before that it will be very, very difficult to speak anything along those lines.
And you'll have to rely on belagavi
cause blocking the way you
see why we have 70 and the way there's about in the Hunan Gemma
region, Malina monzo, no man's book,
the Iranian Revolution and the shared belief.
It costs about five is of the order on which they say. So now this name is missing. As we all know, none of us have as Daniel mentioned, except
one image of mine.
I'm just thinking in his conclusion remarks. It doesn't come out very clearly.
stating that the people who has this belief have anything that's deleted from the Quran or added to it, or alteration of any nature is out of the fold of Islam means coffee. Now I'm just wondering why does not make the statement that the person is in fact coffee.
Rejecting anything, which is Margot Mina Dean with Dora anything that is categorically and undeniably, on the basis of undeniable evidence part and parcel of the in the rejection of any such aspect of the index, you're out of the fold of Islam.
In the case of the Quran,
Salah model or arminas the other one knocks on the fact that the Quran is free and safe from any addition and any interpolation any subtraction, that is something to us, that hallucinogen, ah, which is most certainly one of the vowel e out of them, because a lot of it said in Nananana vichara, we're in Allahu Allah, Hafiz Hoon, Allah is looking after it. And
contemporary research has shown it, that there is very, very, there's no difference between the most as of today and the most as of many, many years ago. So it is something that there is no difference of opinion about whatsoever. from our side, our lasuna will jamara denial of any such a thing definitely takes a person out of the fold. However, with the Shia, we find that something happens. What happens when we tell them that you people say things of this nature, they have a response? The response is, well, I don't believe it. That person says I don't believe it. I can't hold him responsible for the belief which he denies. If he says, If you tell him Yes, in the book, he says he
can be in the book, but I still don't don't believe it. Then our whole ama, there are two different approaches amongst them. There is a one approach we said you're not gonna follow me, you are just making nothing here. Therefore, the photographer would apply to you as well. On the other hand, there are those who would be more precocious and say, Well, if you say so I take you at your word. But that still doesn't absolve Shiism in general. She ism in general does contain this belief. It does contain the belief so there is something wrong. Can we apply Cofer to a person who denies it? That's a question we on which all Am I have taken different approaches. Some will say, you don't
fool me, I'm going to declare COVID upon a person like that, others will say Cofer is a very, very severe thing only applied when the grounds are very, very clear. Completely above question, whichever of the two routes we take, it does not absolve Shiism, in general of the fact that he does contain statements of this nature. So he's perhaps on account of the seriousness of the clear the seriousness of declaring a person a coffee, that's something that some olema have stopped short just before that, as for the other side of the ship I ever stopped short. He might not declare you a coffee. He might not declare the hallucinogenic so far, but when we read the literature, we see that
what the aluna in general aquifer and the worst of Kufa the Sahaba the yellow
a district that shows the need to charge the local sponsor the sponsor us with a series so the children can see within the last visit
number two is
his brothers if you can come to him up alone as a teacher, you must be sure that too.
person coming with you probably would listen to
that interview with you will not use these numbers in
a way he goes back to your people you can teach them
a syllabus shall also teach importantly Do you feel
that you feel that your boss or
Milena in terms of the soccer fan Takia in a dunk by a funny bruise but he said the doctors in the US possibly a boy have to you have three boys with Falcons era.
Infant Allah said dasu meaty strategy that they attack here. What tools do we have to be able to dissect his belief so that we can show to our daughter that this is certainly not the main for you?
What Takia is going to be extremely difficult. Why because he is prepared to say anything that you want him to say. He is going to be prepared to say any
little thing that that you want him to say because he wants to achieve what he wants to achieve there at the end of the day. The point is easiest Sunni or is he
if he's a she really is prepared to say that he is here. And then thereafter he is prepared to capitulate on just about anything. You know when you tell him, What do you say about Abubakar Omar, and he has some good things to say. And what do you say about the Quran? Or what do you say about the Sahaba I think these are clear indication that this person is already busy with some form of decay or the other. In a case like that.
The father steps in and sells his daughter Talia no further, such a person must not be allowed. I use the sukan alaeddin Amata indicum
because it will, it's only going to lead to further
encroachment upon the Society of ours right now at this moment, Nika is being utilized as a tool of encroachment as a cool tool of expansion. As I mentioned last week on the website of the alibi foundation it is written there that one of the objectives is to slowly gradually swell the numbers of the shear in this country of ours This is one of the ways in which they're going to do it.
Once one finds out look if this person you ask him a question or two in terms of what you've learned about what about robots have occurred and so on and he's prepared to give you the kind of answers that you want to then definitely is making data Yeah, that's what enough I think.
So not only Kamala now I'm just on the gear itself again
I would just like to know will you be like you were doing with the mama topic itself using the Quran says to say that the thought pattern is not right will you be using the Quran again? To say the same with the PA because I mean they probably use the Quran as well to justify how they use that will you be going into that as well as opposed to it and the everything from day one all day? I think here we started from where from the Quran
beyond that, how much do we really need or suddenly the Quran has ample indication of the fact that the PA is the wrong thing? Yes, most certainly. And the Quran contains also an indication of the circumstances under which the PA can be made. What will be done then inshallah this will come in future lectures will be done the spelled out exactly where it can be made, where it cannot be made, and whether she took it beyond its acceptable limits.
shukran salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Now it's quite
fascinating that you started off right at the beginning of the talk about the two concept extreme love the extreme weight. When you're ever you speak about the unity between the shears in the series, firstly, you'd you'd always preface it with an extreme horrific example, in there after you leave the question in the air, saying that we can have dialogue and we should have dialogue. But with these kinds of horrific examples, is dialogue possible. The second attachment to that is that you always speak about the other horrible issues that the she has a busy with. And you then also poses the question that she has, again, must first get their house in order before we are prepared
to talk to them, but you speak fondly about the they are such reformist. And if even given the one example of the one scholar that was assassinated, now, it kind of leaves one with pregnant almost with ambiguity are the reformers. And if they are reformers, can we start what practical steps can we take to engage them on a in a beautiful manner? Brother, why is it that you find such a problem with these horrific examples? No. Are they true? Are they not true? No, no, I I've said right from the beginning that there's no way that I can check the veracity of these statements because I don't have a sheer giving. She hasn't from a she always thought you had.
I thought you had I honestly did.
One I do. I there's no question. I facilitate programs. Yes. And there's no argument about it. And so you do have access? No, you do have access to a Shia scholar to ask him to check. Yes. Or you haven't been doing that? No, of course. Have you checked anything? No, but not No, no, no, no. Have you checked anything? That's wrong, but that's one on one. Yes or no? Have you checked anything? Yes. Tell me something that you've checked. Because the questions come very regularly. Checking doesn't happen. You see, no, I I would know I would really not indulge the I mean this jamaa
question These are a few kids.
Okay, the docking is between myself and my brother.
I what I'm simply trying to
I'm just trying to say the following
what do you think it is necessary if people know about these things, you see because what's going to happen? There's going to be a Gucci ism and a banshee ism.
There's going to be a Gucci ism and Apache ism in order for us if I have your attention in order for us to know the Gucci ism, we first need to know the bad one. The poet says are off to Shara Lally, Shirley Lackey, Lita Aki, Ramallah geography Shara minella, Hurriya coffee. If you don't know the difference between bad and God, you're going to fall into the bed. So it's necessary, unfortunately, in this country of ours, when Truth and Reconciliation came around, people had to speak, someone had to go up there on that stage and say that I killed this one. We cannot today, you know, just sweep under the carpet that Beco was killed and Timo was killed and Mr. Harun was killed, these things
need to come out, it needs to be stated. And then reconciliation can come. So we need to speak about these horrific things. It's, it's not therefore I started off by saying, it's not a pleasure sitting here. It's not a pleasure. But it's something that people have a right to know. And you see everyone calls for unity. How would you like, if prior to 94, everyone said, let's have unity, but don't speak about Mm hmm. Oh, now, don't speak about the bigger one, and the sharpsville, six, and boy Patong. And all these other messages, don't speak about them. Let's just also together have a nice South African Bri. And after that you can all sing, sing causes ukulele and everything is nice
again, now we need to visit these issues. We need to know, I know it's uncomfortable for you. But these are the catharsis processes which we have to go through. If you cannot realize the need for that, if all that you're going to do is more than you know, post mortems on the radio, you still haven't understood why we have come together. Yeah, you still haven't understood. The door is open. We are prepared to engage. But those shear reformers should not be engaging with us. We know what we believe they've they've come to our country, they have you been run either. Have you been to dirt road? Have you seen who other people who attend there? They are capetonians? They are people from
this society they've converted? Why did they convert because they were converted? Now Who did that? Were those reforms she although she has of the old Ben stole? I don't have the answer. If you have it, please tell me. But who needs to engage here, my idea of telling you last week, and I this is probably going to be taken out of context again, like so many other things on your program. But what I meant last week by saying that you need to get your house in order is this those who come and invite to a cheers those who come to Sunni communities and call upon the children to convert to their way of life. What right have they to do that when their own house is not in order. When they
are reformers, and they are counter reformers, those reformers and counter reformers have got to come together and decide what is really the religion of the aqeedah of Shiism. Once we know that, then we are prepared to engage or those of them whose ideas we can we can identify with, if we're gonna find a CA then prepared to say I don't believe x, y and Zed and everything else connected to it, then by all means, but he tells me I don't believe in the hive of Quran but it still makes a lot like this. Because you see, Zora, even Aryan Derrida that had a very I don't accept him, but So Ron, I just had it and he accepted this something wrong with it. So once again, this is our call, you
have the A Please announce it next week on the radio, that this forum calls that the Shia have dialogue within themselves, decide what are the reformers or counter reformers and then come to us, then we accept you with open arms
come on, I think that this particular program
can you remember the 10 years ago that this particular situation has come up before I think modernized spring in a better way? Nice. We've asked Mike, the
Whiting is agreed since then, it's been
good because certainly now
people are those who indeed
Getting the claws into them people as I've been mentioning this thing, that you know what the deal is between me and not interested in Shia and Sunni between mean Allah. So he's a lot of a lot of confusion going on as well.
It also reminds me just before the American attack on Baghdad, just before the American attack on America made certain demands, saddam must do this. And he must do that he must do that. One of the things mentioned, which was do any anti aircraft, a power that they have, they must remove them, then only we won't attack you. Why was that? Just so when the anti aircraft power was gone, then the aircraft came. So we're not prepared to relinquish our NDA craft. We're going to maintain it because we've learned our lesson.
So come on, with this one too as a question on the key model now.
We know that I'll believe in a man is meant to rely Humala equity. So when a person lie continuously, can analyze tell us if the Malacca befriend that person or not.
If a person lies continuously, if a person lies continuously what happens is in a Rasoolallah celeriac depot Hatha Yoga bar in the law he kuzava his name is written by Allah is a liar. When is a continuous liar lying lying lying in Allah calls him a liar. And Allah calls him a lie the desecration on such a person, person is a liar. I would want to say that the Shia also believe that lying is not permissible, but they say the difference between lying and tapir that he is lying for a good purpose. And you know khabib is lying for a bad purpose. So you become what they call Machiavellian that the end justifies the means. If the end is we're going to get more she has we're
going to convert most years, then you can lie and you can do a number of different things it's fine No problem.
So now when it comes up,
as you have so beautifully said that this this people's
main concern is to swell the numbers on the next
My question is should someone then innocently finds himself in the salado janazah not knowingly that the Imam is maybe a shearing and as we know the original, we have fought appear odd and they have five What should we as the audition Nadeau
if you don't know that the Imam is he and he goes on to five that we are out you stop at the fourth and we'll
you can go on to the fifth gear as well the ease of use such as that you will never know
or other you know, know for a fact that the person is here. Now, this particular door that I read you this door is found in about 20 definitely why the Messiah Shia, every she out there doesn't know this. This is just part of the CIA legacy. You see, when they come into society such as ours, they put their best foot forward. The Veterans up to today is putting the best foot forward. It's not going to tell us because remember his own mother and father is also knee. So he's not going to tell him you know, when your mother and father die do this. These kinds of changes will only come after a while when the society is ready. For example. One of the things that the she I have to give you an I
have to pay her a percentage of the car two and a half percent of zaca. The car paid two and a half percent of the car plus another 20% with a car homos, they have to pay 22 so all in all, it's 22%. When they came to South Africa originally, when the albite Foundation Center opened up originally, no one was being taught about No one told them about you've got to pay 22% only now a few years ago they started teaching it because back then you tell the person rather become mushy, it's very nice to be a share. You've got to be 22% of income, how the Buddha said Sunni is now Right.
But after a while these teachings come so if you're faced with a situation where the purse The man is a Shia he and he says and he makes five that'd be the first and first and foremost thing I would want to tell the Shia
whichever one of them is present they will probably hear is that they own mother permits them in terms of the rewired of the time. They only had if permit them their own instructions of a man permit them to make only for
if they were the Sunni community why insist upon being different when your own rewired, say you can do the same.
At least do it for the sake of the Unity don't show that we are different. But those that were here last week will remember something they have to show that they are different. Why? Because in their belief, the Sahaba of the aluminum left no stone unturned to corrupt things. So if their own mother hub allows them to make for and for alone And it so happens that the she happens to be the Imam let you make for that bill out and let you not cause any confusion amongst the public. For them to go on insist upon five that'd be a lot that's making a statement. You want to be known as someone different
When you have this kind of latitude within your method, make use of it by all means. That's probably one of the ways in which we can find some common grounds. But if you constantly want to be different, there is going to be a problem
regular basis that if you didn't
listen to the show
you couldn't somebody else
but before then only your neighbor the Rhys, APB, you will see the cedar fold.
If you did not,
guess this is what?
I've got a question. I've got a question. I just want to ask the brother, if after this we are going to do the qadiani? Is Is it going to be a series on the cardiologist on radio as well?
as other ones, the same thing? You know, with with with enormous respect? I think I think this this conversation was extremely unfair. Firstly, and foremost, I'm not at your level. I'm just an ordinary Joe public. If you're a private, you do conduct a program. I just want to NIH. Marina, would you have a similar program? The only special favor for she Oh, no, with respect. And I think and I think this is one of the questions I've taken every question that you've asked, I've taken I've taken time to answer. In fact, I think I might just have spent more time on your question that anyone else has so far. But one question, the answer is a yes or no. After this, we intend to do the
remedies. Are you going to have a similar session with Archimedes as well? asking me what I'm going to be here as well? Yes, I will be in later No, no, not yet. Indicate on your radio program? Will you do a post mortem on the programs that will have anomalies? I'm not sure. But I think it's unfair. Really? No, no, there's nothing unfair. I know, I really think with respect, it's unfair. What I would have wanted really was that scholars at your level and I think I said this right from the outset scholars at your level, if you could debate right with the authors that you always reference and cite, at that level, and know what you know, I just make one observation with really
with with with your indulgence, the fact that we have so many all among
now I thought while I was asking me a question, you can you can speak know,
that the fact I like circumlocution, the fact that we are talking around the issue not on the issue, the fact that we have so many orlimar sitting here, literally at your feet, because it's such a new phenomenon, the study of Shiism, we have so many orlimar who are resident imaams, in many massages across Western Cape, can you imagine if learned scholars are sitting at your feet mala every Monday night? Me as an ignoramus, comparing to the learned scholars here that we have so much to learn? I don't always understand the question. The question is, would you be prepared to get the armor the qadiani scholar on a program on radio to do a dissection of a program that we will have as part of a
policy? No, it's not no.
That's not part of a policy. I'm not part of radio policy. I said from the outset I'm a facilitator. We have an education
I think the radio needs a further further bit of reform.
You must understand from our particular point of view, ism has been here before cardia before this year Why do this she I get special privileges don't just tell me that? Why do the Shia get special privileges when certain things in Shiism go way beyond anything that the Guardian has ever said that is,
everyone is prepared to give the fatwa even Mustafa fatale Franco photinia this year in any party on his
face, but why the Why are the Shia toes so sensitive? That's not saying why do we all jump on the bandwagon of the monies. But when she is about the unity, and all the records will show every time has Radio 76 ever tried to make unity with Archimedes we have lots of you've done No, no.
We had we made unity with families. Please, no, no, I'm asking any programs on Mondays?
simple yes or no? When you can't engage me? Well, no, you can't. Sorry. This is not rather This is not this is not the alim question.
There's a question of a person whose name gets bandied around on radio these they know Yes. So I just want to know, because I want to know, you know, is my name going to get bandied when I take go for the Ahmadis as well, and maybe the Bahais as well, and maybe Who else? Or is this just special treatment for the Shia? No, it's not special treatment for the Oh
I think it's unfair. The whole premise is unfair. I can't engage with the alim like, you know, I can't This is not the this is not the intellectual question, not an academic question.
You should don't avoid the question. Answer it.
Yes, you can answer it. Please answer it.
Mona, I have said from the start, and if I'm going to be called a champion for unity, because we have a model in South Africa that we can show to the world, we have a vast majority of Sudanese in this country, and the minority is sheers way forward.
I want to get to a point right now, there's no need for fear. In my understanding, there's no need for fear. Yes, education is necessary. Islam is about education, there is no ambiguity, no misunderstanding about the issue was about unity is unity and,
or relative one. And my last question was, that whenever you speak about unity, you always preface it with our rific example. I've answered that one already. I answered that one already. And I was gonna because unity cannot happen until we revisit those already. Now we're gonna get to the UCT example where you said that the pamphlet was given by the Academic Center. I didn't see the pamphlet. But in your submission, you said that the pamphlet said that this respect for signal back this respect for signalman? Yes. And you expect me to believe that? No, that is the point I was going to engage you in that I was going to ask you coming to your to one of your primary issues that
you raised about the extreme love in the extreme hate? Was that not supposed to have been demonstrated from our side? First, the love that if a pamphlet said this respect? Should we not engage them in that? But then you immediately follow up by saying, but they have a history with a twist? And do you deny that they have that he's I don't you see, that's the point. I don't so you need to know it, therefore, I'm telling you, but you need to know what to believe and what not to believe. But do you believe everything that everyone says? How about for good? If Harvard wrote you a nice poem in Afrikaans about the great men that Nelson Mandela is would you accept that?
Where does that? No.
I think that sometimes there are a few things here. The first of all, first thing is that double standards, the double standards, and that's what I'm trying to get you to, to see and you're talking around the issue. We don't treat the shear the same way we treat the armories. As far as whether under sadhana is concerned, that is also a sect, and that is also a sect within any of those sects. Whether it's called the ABC sect, The Guardian is a CEO of the x y Zed say, we have to determine whom we can have unity with and whom we cannot have unity with Unity is not such an absolute thing that rides roughshod over everyone. I would like you to pose the question to see actually next week,
whether the other honey Shia, also Muslim, and whether we should have unity with them. Those really who believe that Ali is a God, and that the the Imam right now, Karim, Allah Han is also a god. Does that you know that I have unity that you discuss? does it apply to them as well? Or are there certain limitations to it? If you have limitations? So have we?
I don't believe in I don't believe there was a U and V in the first place. But what I am saying in the question, I want to know, are there any reformers in the shear group that we have in South Africa? And is it possible? Is it possible to forge unity with those who are informed and those who have unless
they are reformers? The question is that we need to see what validity do those reformers have within their own Shia school? For example, I'll give you the example one reformer, you might have heard his name he might not have Ahmed Al Khatib. His proper name is Abdul Karim Laurie. He wrote several books in which he has distanced himself from several things of this year. He believes himself to be a ga reformer. What does the rest of Shiism say about him? There is a contract taken out and his name is full flow flow free for cloud as they say, kill him like Salma and Raj de there's a fatwa on him he can, that's a reformer, however, he are well responded to him. So if we have Somali
reformers, my suggestion to such reformers is Ashura is around the corner. Three, four weeks from now is going to start. Let them start those reforms from there. The reforms are not with us. The reforms are within the house of Shiism. Last week I said this week I said what validity do they bring from within the house of shears and how well do they represent Shiism? Do they represent Shiism? Do they represent themselves in many reformers? Simply I don't believe in this. I don't believe in that. I don't believe in that. Is that reform that's not reform. That's not reform. Reform means getting right down to the roots and
Looking where those things that you disagree with, where do they originate from, and revisiting those issues. And then you start reforming from there upwards. So if those reformers bring them, we'll engage with them here and tell them, this is how we conceive of reform, if they're prepared to do that we form that these formulae resonate with us very, very well, our arms open, we prepare to embrace, but they're not prepared to do that, if it's merely a matter of, Okay, now a checklist that that I don't believe in. So I'm a reformer. That's very, very far from true reform. I think that's very, very far away from through reform. So the reformers need to decide for themselves what is the
reform, then those reformers need to go back to their co religionists to the people of this year? And get from them a stamp of approval to say, Are you a true reformer and do the rest of the world of Shiism stand behind you? What do they say about you? In order that we can know whether this person speaks for all of Shiism? Or they only speaks for himself? If he only speaks for himself? What can we do with such reform?
for being positive, the ones that have some really big
A lot of people don't want to have followed and most people must apologize. Your question, I'm sorry, but can avoid individually is something of concern shall not should not get you?
Or suddenly 101 as you're serving the public comment and question if you do the right names. You don't get CBC