Transform Your Ramadan ‘Designing for Remembrance’ with Peter Gould – Mindful Ramadan 2024

Salam aleikum, brother would do it. Well, how are you doing sister Khalid Al Hamdulillah Al Hamdulillah? Well, I'm really excited about today's guest. Because I feel like we both have a history with sha Allah with him for over a decade. Peter Gould is going to be with us today. So what has been your experience with him? He's one of those souls that you should know, on your journey to spirituality and to God and globally recognized Muslim designer that worked with governments of Dubai and working with major companies around the world needs your brands around the world. And this beautiful, God centered, higher brand design work that he does, he talks about this concept of

designing for remembrance.

What a beautiful thing like he's his mind is about dhikr. Yes, he's so God centered. When the principles we'll discuss from his principles of how to be spiritually centered, God centered heart centered in the way that he doesn't design work. But we are excited to talk about not just about design, but how do we then design your heart and your life? Yes, yes. And using those same concepts that he beautifully it was just like, it's woven together. And he's so incredibly mindful of all of these practices, and it's inspiring I can't wait to have this discussion with him. And what I love is his humility, that even though he has been impacting 10s of millions of people, Ma sha Allah and

being recognized and awarded, he's still stay so grounded and we're going to find out how he does it how he keeps the balance, how he's able to mashallah bring that remembrance within his design and his life in sha Allah. Yeah, tools a transcript, you shouldn't tools from his journey to this light and to this fate that we can take away as we cultivate our best self this firm about remembering this trauma that is not just to do more, but also become more Yeah, and become the, this is going to be instrumental. I think this this interview is definitely instrumental in our path to transform in sha Allah said Amane calm Welcome to mindful Ramadan 2024 transformed by the light, inspiring

stories about convert hamdulillah hamdulillah it's it's my honor to be here and Peter, I still have a friend of mine and an inspiration on this journey of entrepreneurship that is centered around God and to Bri beautiful practices of for the to the Allah to introduce him to this conversation about how to become more likeable, what are some principles and tools that we can take, you know, our journey, and it's an honor to introduce heater to this conversation. Smilla Salam aleikum, welcome to mindful Ramadan. 2024 transformed by the light, inspiring stories of converts. So they come brother, white dude, and brother Peter. Great to see Hello.

Hope you guys doing great today. And

it's a pleasure to be with you too.

And, yeah, thank you for inviting me. I am I know we're in different time zones, but the blessing to be part of this global experience, you know, especially in Ramadan, it's it's a beautiful time and nice to connect with that audience and friends there. So, and hello, it's great to see you again. It's been a little while, so humbled. I'm really happy. Yeah. We're happy to see it's been about like, 1010 years, I believe. And we have been working with you and need the beautiful branding. And I really, really appreciate the beautiful work that you do. Yeah, absolutely. I probably had less gray hairs back then I'm just thinking, well watch. But, you know, I'm grateful to you know, both of

us, you know, due to courts, being able to do what we love and inshallah we hope it's beneficial, and we hope it's transforming with light.

Lilla we can see the length mashallah you face and also right behind you. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just the downlights of where we're at right now. But, but I'll go with it. I'll go with it.

Peter, you've been an inspiration to me, as I got into this space of entrepreneurship. And I've mentioned that to you the past. Peter has been on my show, a beautiful advisor friend, and also much LA's family. I was very lucky and honored to meet his wife and one of the retreats in Isha back in 2018. And humbler, she's been a great supporter, and she's been encouraging our work playing some of her work in our home and so it's beautiful to see Peter your journey. And for our audience here. I want to introduce Peter, this heart centered design that you've been doing in the way that you show up in your

or your own entrepreneurial design space, but the way that you've transformed all these brands when I was talking to Mr. Hawley, and they were talking about how they got to work with you, and this work that you take around the world, and recently a conversation we had about how to even borrow from those principles, as we cultivate our best selves, as Muslims. And we're really excited to have you and listen to your story. And perhaps we can get started Peter, by just with your story of coming to the faith and finding the light. Yeah, yeah, be happy to share. I'm Lila. And, and likewise, we'll do that I feel feel the same, you know, your work, Michelle has been very

transformative for many people around the planet. And it's great that, you know, it's reached out a little home in Australia, and many other places. So we're grateful for that. And I think it's beautiful work that you do. So, I mean, everyone has a story, right? Especially finding the light or, you know, having embracing spiritual path. And whatever we've kind of family or half were kind of born into, or our parents, we all still need to, you know, make those decisions and go through an experience of, you know, kind of really deciding internally, you know, what life is about, or, you know, what are we here, what are we doing?

And so, you know, Hamza lives, I was someone that kind of discovered Islam, and then embraced Islam. But, you know, I also think that each of us in our hearts, we have to go through that process, and I know plenty of luxury, like yourselves, people that are on that journey of discovery, and maybe they've, you know, the kind of retreat, embracing the lights or, you know, at some way, so I, you know, I'm conscious that everyone has, has their own path to it. And I always liked that Rumi quote that, you know, there's many paths to God is there are souls on earth. And I think there's, you know, there's some some truth that we all have to find that, that journey for ourselves. And for me,

I humbler was when I was,

I was a teenager, and I wasn't really thinking about anything to do with faith, or religion or spiritual path. And growing up in Australia, and I'm glad I had, you know, a great childhood, you know, kind of journey, I really enjoyed school, you know, I had a really party parents.

And, you know, I didn't have one sort of epic, dramatic, transformational moment where I can tell you, like, some people have certain, you know, things that happen to them. For me, it was a gradual process, where actually, I got, I came to know, a Muslim family that lived near me, actually, in Sydney, in Australia. And

I first kind of had the experience of getting to know,

a family that

individuals and then a family that, you know, they they really, it struck me that, you know, these are people that are mashallah professional, intelligent, loving family, they're thoughtful,

but they pray, and they believe in God, take this same, you know, anachronistic to me like, well, the way I kind of grew up the kind of culture I was around the kind of influences I add that anything kind of religious or faith based, or God sort of centered was very old school and didn't, you know, like The Simpsons, right, it's kind of something to make fun of, like, if an old old style thing that was very Christian, I guess, secular Krishna kind of environment, I, you know, I had sort of close to.

And, anyway, through this kind of initial interaction experience, and maybe think that actually, I don't really know anything about anything, kind of, you know, when I was in my MIT that it made me really think, and I saw how, for example, his family, as I got to know them, they,

you know, they, they prayed, they had this sense of inner calm and sort of an approach to the world that hadn't sort of inner

it was like an inner tranquility, or like a sukeena, that I might call it now. That, you know, I didn't quite, maybe few others had, despite whatever, you know, tumultuous things were happening in life or in the world. So it kind of got me thinking and set me off on a bit of a path of discovery. And I started reading a little bit started, then going to some thoughts from different different faiths and people who have different kind of backgrounds. And I kind of went through this one to two year journey of a really challenging, you know, even at that young age, what kind of thought you know, God was all about and lots of little moments and little stories and things that happened in

that time, places I visited I remember going to a beautiful mosque that we haven't Sydney and I never been to a mosque before or maybe we had been to one but you know, and, and just think through deep moments of questioning of openings of thinking about

On purpose, and ultimately, you know, it was a combination of the head and the heart. Because on one sense that you have this sort of experiential, knowing this, I can either sit through a kind of cold that you can sort of your heart gravitates towards. But then secondly, you know, there was this, the simple the simplicity, and the kind of theology of Islam is just, it's so clear, like, he knows it's clear, and there's lots of layers to learn later, and things to explore. But there, me and your relationship with Allah, your relationship with the divine, it's so simple and clear. And other came to kind of know it, I just had about two year kind of journey into that. It came to Ramadan,

actually, I, you know, tried fasting, as well. And I felt like this is something that Okay, so the one thing that these lessons keep talking about, and they're doing every day. So I tried it, and I still found that quite found as well. And then he was getting towards the last three weeks of Ramadan is then in the final 10 days. And it's actually on the 27th tonight, that I erased Islam.

Yeah, and I didn't, you know, I didn't appreciate that there was any difference there. But, you know, it was the, it was quite beautiful and powerful moment, you know, to come to that after that, you know, two year journey. And, yeah, Hamdulillah, you know, there's, there's lots I could share over probably a two hour journey of, you know, doubts and decisions, challenges, especially the time it was brought around, you know, September 11, as well as your after that. So, there are lots of difficult things, cultural and identity, challenges, but But ultimately, you know, that when the heart is feeling aligned, and there's an inner kind of conviction,

you have to follow that. And so, I wouldn't say that I was very knowledgeable about the practice of Islam, but the simplicity and the alignment and that inner kind of knowing and that inner calm and presence, that consciousness that I sought, was becoming more active. It was just kind of pulling me in that direction and Hamdulillah, I raised this ominous, so like a big oak thing. And I kind of explained to people, I kind of borrow the Imam Al Ghazali explanation of honey, we're in Islam, and he says, Look, you can describe honey all day, you can have labels for you couldn't have books about it until you actually taste it. And that is like, that's like Eman, that's like faith is the same

thing. Beautiful. Wow. Sister, honey, I want to do definitely share what you're hearing here. But I took away a few key words from Peter, it's already profound. But he shared I feel like we can talk for an hour on just those few concepts share one really important concept about this gradual movement to God, that everybody's journey doesn't have to be that boom in the blast. And then it's that journey that we have that takes consistent effort and progress and that were on that path. And that consistency when I see the beauty of Peters work and the impact he has made. And he shared in a very sharing it in a very even keel kind of relaxed tone. But the impact is huge when you are

gradually continuously closer to God. Well, one really important thing he said was when I just became aware that I didn't really know anything. And this is something that we we share in our framework, the mindfulness framework, that that awareness is like the first step, just knowing just knowing that I don't know, I have lost, just knowing that just labeling and the and this there's this neuroscience evidence of people saying that you don't even have to regulate your emotions, as long as you just know, when label your emotions automatically the rational part of the brain kicks in. So awareness automatically helps you regulate. So this spiritual regulation that we're talking

about just that a weight, it's it helped to come back, right.

Because a lot of us live on autopilot. We're not just we're just not aware that were lost. And there is a few other keywords that took away that city and reflecting on things he's talked about awareness and reflection. And a lot of times we don't reflect and ponder and meditate and contemplate we I think we have really lost this art as well as an aroma that we forgot to meditate to reflect on the needs of Allah reflect on our lives to

beautiful practice like the * cooler or taboo or beautiful practice like Morocco or Maha Sabha. These are so so important because like I was reading I think I

can't remember whose work is that I was reading I'm thinking email is Ali's work, and a few other scholars were looking at him a number of these one of his books and talking about how to

Right to God in weather really, you think you're seeing is the blade vicar. You get closer to God. But with Ficker and reflection, you arrive at the knowledge of God because you experienced God with that contemplation. So he was talking about how he reflected and, and then the connection through Ramadan and 27 are learning we're doing this Ramadan series, beautiful theater so far, I'm the sister Hollywood, do you think mashallah, what you reflected on as far as the mindfulness and being in tune, having the awareness, I think what really resonated with me was the fact that there is a void that we all have, right, and we are, and that void made you search for it for search for some

light and search for serenity. And what was very impactful in your story is seeing an average Muslim family that depicted that serenity, they depicted that closeness to Allah. And I feel that that is such a reminder for us, as Muslims, to really be mindful of our behavior. And you don't know who you're impacting. It wasn't pamphlets that inspired you wasn't lectures, it was the behavior of a family. And I always say that, to my children, especially when they were little, I would tell them, people are watching, and they are learning about Islam through our interaction. And I think that this is so profound, that we really need to be aware and mindful. And when you taste it, as you

beautifully said, it's like honey, as you tasted the sweetness of their psyche and their devotion, then it intrigued you and finding that alignment and having it transform you little by little, I think, is incredible, Mashallah.

Yeah, hummed a lot. No, I appreciate you. But I wish I knew you both at that time, 20 years ago, but you know, it's, but I did have, you know, you're really right. No, good, because

I think there's lots of ways people,

there's different doors and openings that people have on their journey. For me, it was, you know, a number of people, individuals interactions, and,

you know, people that were just so soulful and interested in genuinely, you know, genuine, you could see, you know, the conviction and the line of faith in, you know, the hearts of different people that I was meeting and I had come across kind of people like this really before, where, you know, it's it's not the pamphlets and the brochure that really wouldn't have worked on me. I probably saw a little bit of that, but, you know, you know, the, it's a built in, you know, kind of, you know, dissents you know, at least in my kind of in the culture environment I grew up in, but, you know, when someone it's a stiff, smiling and they're, you know, they really interested in you and they,

they want to share, you know, want to answer your questions and be, you know, have such good manners and o'clock and host you and feed you and get, you know, they wants the hardest, so, simple thing. So you're really right about those manners. And I just felt that, you know, God sent me, you know, amazing mix of people in that time over a couple of years. And then since then, of course, many years, humbly lasting a beautiful thing about this community of faith that connect with this and align these threads of faith across the planet. It's incredible. So, so yeah, you're right. Sometimes it's that simple thing, but, and I think that it was something special about Ramadan, the

botica of Ramadan as well, that

that had some effects, I'm quite sure. Absolutely. I think we are in such a heightened spiritual state. And by you fasting by your being in the community, it resonated with you and you felt the spirituality and it opened your hearts upon Allah and the fact that it happened on the 27th and how powerful how powerful that it's exponentially weighing heavier on your scale, Mashallah.

Yeah, that's generous. You know, it's just gifts, you know, and it's and you, you know, I think, also it's his graduate awareness of gratitude. And, and just, you know, when when you appreciate how fortunate you are and the incredible blessings and Namaste that you have and in your, you know, your health and your shelter, safety opportunities, and education and blessings of good parents and all of these things that, you know, I just in my teen years, I wasn't reflecting or appreciated that as much as much as I started to do I think when when I embraced Islam, when you see like, Wow, you look at most of the population of the planet, and you look at all the things you've been afforded. And

now you have this understanding that you learn about concepts like an Amana well that's actually entrusted to you

So what are you doing with that you just got to, you know, kind of continue on this kind of linear path or with this beautiful set of opportunities and gifts and talent and, you know, things that you've been given and good coffee and Wi Fi, and all these things like, what are you going to do with that and in the world. So that's, that's when I guess the next chapter started. And Amana is translated into trust for the non Arabic speaking audience and seeing everything were given as a trust and being responsible to use it. Brother would do it, please, I want to share his heart centered design, I was so moved by his beautiful, amazing, yes, let me see.

So this is a beautiful, this shows the sun and the beauty of what Peter does. When you look at this, you just feel this tranquility and beauty in this, the way that he's explaining the principles, right. And I was really amazed by a couple of things here that I don't see normally, in everybody's principles. I mean, these are things that are important to us, as most of us, but I don't see that like one of the be core principles. And one of the things I asked Peter earlier in the past, and I would like to ask you again, in this audience, that there is a principle here that you have put rebar, which is contentment. And then you just mentioned this concept of trusting a man, right? How

are they related to your journey and your understanding of how it transformed who you are, and the way that you want to read transformation? To the Yeah, great question. And so these words and concepts, I think, you know, become very familiar to Muslims that, you know, that are maybe learning or, you know, in lessons, you hear these terms, and, you know, it's kind of spiritual principles, if you like, you know, I guess in the first three years of me exploring Islam, or I would hear words like Baraka or you'd learn about Nia very quickly and the importance of intentionality, but I hadn't really framed in the way that I did until I became Muslim and the importance of of Nia and being

very conscious of your your intentionality in whatever it is you're doing, it could be stepping into a building or, you know, taking a sip of water or, you know, embarking on a journey or starting a business, or whatever it might be, and then doing that with a god consciousness. You know, it becomes a profound I think, you bring a spiritual perspective to, you know, Charlie, increasingly more and more decisions that you make daily, and you're you work towards that state of remembrance, not saying that I did or do as much as I would like to strive towards. But so what, what I had done in building the design practice or humbler over over the years is, is kind of looking at these packs

of, okay, I'm learning about design and how we help people develop their brands or products and ideas, and always in the state of learning.

Then in parallel to that, I was learning these, you know, beautiful, timeless spiritual concepts and words that many Muslims know. And they're universal in their in every traditional culture. But we have a particular I guess, framing and definitions of things like what Bata commits. So one of my favorites, you mentioned, there is real law. And this became quite powerful concepts, especially if you're in the past of entrepreneurship, or trying to build a product or you're trying to, you know, grow and nurture something over time. Because, you know, sometimes things do a hands on work work out, and there's openings and things then success and, and you feel grateful, and gratitude for

that.

But many, often times, they don't buy, at least for the first couple of times, and there's a lot of frustration. So, you know, I was looking to kind of how do I practically apply these words I was learning about, and in trying to build or, you know, try things out, you know, creatively, you really need to have this rhythm of like, Alhamdulillah, things worked out great, and that's successful. But also Hamdulillah, things didn't work out. And there's a wisdom behind that it's a path to growth and learning. So that concept, I when I now need to Hamlet, people come and ask me about maybe they're trying to launch their idea or their product. And so this set of words and

principles is just, you know, some that I think are helpful to think about and actively bring into your, you know, into your, you know, the very start of your, your project or your journey so that you go in with this mindset of like, okay, I'm going to try and be in a state of surrender and contentment, you know, which whichever way things go and maintain that kind of long term. So, that's, that's one of those words and I think, you know, both of you have probably a much richer understanding of the word but that's sort of how

My wife couldn't have understood it in the past I've been on. Beautiful, it's really transformational that this really, really beautiful sister having what do you think about that word, luxury, that I think it encapsulates how we need to live our life. Because when we have to do that, then our behavior is going to be modified our relationships, we will look for gratitude and appreciation within each experience and each relationship, rather than feeling that there is something missing missing. Scarcity. Yes, so many people go through life and with the people I do counseling with, the data is not there. They're constantly reflecting on what is missing in their

life, what they don't have the terrible things that have happened. And actually, the journey to overcoming those obstacles, is getting them to a place of dread. And recognizing that Allah in his infinite wisdom, has chosen whatever we experience, and those it's like those bitter injections or the difficult the painful injections are actually a way of transforming us. And so that I feel to have psychological tranquility is such an important aspect, seeing Allah's wisdom and accepting the other walk alone. Beautiful. Yes. To quote you on some of the highlights, summarized, so, yeah, Hamdulillah I absolutely, it's, I think it is a, it's a it's a profound kind of mindset, and the

deeper we can kind of go into the understanding of it, and practice of it, and reminding ourselves to, you know, sort of work back towards that, when we were not in that sort of state. And,

you know, I, I asked one of my teachers about real law, and he explained that I'm paraphrasing, it's like, you know, imagine being in a state of contentment for every decision that's ever happened in human history. And in the future, every decision that will ever happen in human history, ever Well, beyond your own life, and your, your own journey, is being in that same state of just, you know, humbling, which is, which is, you know, that's the high mark on the high station to get to that, but we should do we should strive for that. So hang with you, too, I feel, being reminded to VMF statement, shall I say a lot of people live in a state of either dwelling and regretting the past or

anxious about the future. And that means that they are constantly in turmoil. So when you have that mindset of wow, I do accept everything that happened, every decision that was made every breakup every loss. And when you embrace that, then you really let go of these of these emotions that can really shackle us. Yeah, it's such a God centered and heart center way to live. And

it takes work. Right, it takes for a lot of inner work, yes, the internal work, which I feel, a lot of times, we don't see that within our circles and the Muslim community, there's a lot of focus on rituals, on actions on gaining the knowledge. But that knowledge is not transformative, unless we do the inner work, and really reflect on our behavior and transform it because the knowledge alone doesn't do it. Yeah. One way, I like to think about this, and I will do, I'm glad that you shared that particular graphic, because it's really, you know, in the context of people asking me about, you know, if they're trying to build something old girl company, all those kinds of things. And so

I'm sharing, you know, distilling little things that I've learned and definitely mistakes I've made and things you know, not to do, and I have a long, long way to go on this journey. That's also just having that

if, when you're setting out, like build, trying to build that, within you that you've got this, what is the spiritual, foundational kind of principle I'm going to bring in to the work and not kind of put on a shelf or in a book and exactly, I love what you described, you know, I didn't find Islam because of the practices and the kind of, I guess, the outward and that, you know, the, the costumes, what you know, as someone is put it, you know, a costume of your, over your heart, like, although there's many beautiful things in the in the cultures and traditions are either a great love for different Muslim cultures.

That it's that that inner state, it's timeless, you know, it's timeless, and that's why I might be in Australia or someone might be in, you know, where whatever place that it's a timeless, especially in a time of like, you know, a lot of distraction. And so this whole effort here is like how do we design for remembrance? How do we can optimize what we're doing and you know,

on that path of being in that state of of contentment working towards the actively in something that wasn't trying to build as well.

Yeah, that's another concept in talk for time designed for remembrance the how do we design our life so that we can become a source of remembrance, you know, this isn't one of the signs of the willies. Alia realize that they remind you when you see that their own idea of Allah happy. And how do we live our lives in a way that we become a source of Remember, it's just our smile in our business like I said. So it's beautiful in. But it's just only fitting that either set that just the peacefulness of that family inspired him and then eventually how it transformed his life and journey to come to this place of using that one specific thing about the condition of the heart, the state

of the heart, but he thought, as long as the principles. And this is what we see a lot of times in Journey, like when we look talk to our friends and family that are struggling to get to their vessel, we're struggling their journey of faith, they're born Muslims or converse, they're also sometimes we see them. And there is a way to teach and share this profound principle and help you along the way. It's such a beautiful concept, because then you're not necessarily waiting for anyone, anything from anyone else. You're connecting with God and you're expecting from God and you're having this sense of contentment with God. So it's a beautiful way to live. And I wonder how

to use this more. It is trade more as we do this Ramadan as we try to transform ourselves so that I like them to cool that mindfulness of Allah being aware and conscious of Allah, one of those qualities is the complete contentment. And so like so much, so many heartbreaks difficulty can be solved just by this one concept. And I think it shared Peter earlier that, you know, in one of my work, I came across this equation that sufferings in life is equal to p plus rejection, a blood resistance, the more you resist the pee, the more your suffering decreases, you know. So in cleaner, as I was thinking about this, I give a hopper recently on fairness of a dog. And we were just

thinking that universally, the more you accept, and then psychologists and mindfulness experts are starting to talk about his term radical acceptance.

Or you accept p minus that deep contentment and acceptance, it reduces your suffering. And so it's such a way such a beautiful way to transform ourselves, this concept of how to transform silly this Ramadan

absolutely, I think, when we're talking about the acceptance, because when we are in a state of why me questioning what has happened, questioning the pain that we are suffering, we get stuck. It's once you have that radical acceptance, once you know this is coming from Allah, that's when you're able to open up your heart and your mind to those experiences. But I'd love to hear what Peter you would have to say about that.

Yeah, I think it's, you know, we got we all go through, you know, seasons of life, and I love my show, I, you know, I've known you for more than 10 years now. And, and what dude, probably for at least the same.

And, you know, you know, it's like, a lot designs for you at each season, you know,

new challenges, new ways to grow, and

especially, you know, if you have 100 If you have a family, you have children, you know, there's all kinds of dynamics that you're also managing and learning. And I feel humbled as I get older, I see just the new the incredible blessings of our these timeless teachings that we have, and we might hear them on a podcast or like a business book or some kind of best selling, you know, mindfulness, you know, practice or on the headspace app or something, but so much is in our tradition, that is is really timeless wisdom that

going back to what you're seeing what dude is like, how do you take that concept rather than sort of maybe the packaging of Islam, which is, you know, let's be real has a lot of brand issues. You know, the way people might kind of first think about it, unfortunately, but

you know, I've always felt and especially the journey to to then embracing Islam, East out kind of what am I call spiritual vocabulary. If you come to certain contexts and start talking about God, or you mentioned Jesus, you know, Asa alayhis, Salam already packed comes with a lot, right? It comes with a lot whatever that person is. But if you say

The word Bonica, or the DA, or Sistina, to many, many people, they would never heard of that have noticed that I'm bringing association to it. And it gives you or even words like, man, you know, you know, pilot animal solar. Other than that these like these. When I first heard this, I had no association with them. So as I kind of went into a freshman, no pop culture, you know, no, you would no reference it, it became, you know, humble, I was sort of open to listening to them. So I think a great opportunity for us is like, we I genuinely feel that, you know, humbler, our path of spiritual practice in Islam is just so relevant and helpful to people today, you know, in a very digital

world, a very, you know, hustle culture kind of world.

And we genuinely want to share what we've kind of been gifted the knowledge of, like, it's not this sense of, like, hey, I need I need you to embrace this religion, like I need to, you know, have have another number, like, we have the numbers, but that's not the that's not the concern. It's, but you know, what, we've been gifted in our lives, even if we haven't fully embraced or understood it, and I definitely am at like, level one of many, many levels of understanding these concepts of rebar and Sakina.

You know, and, you know, to see it, to skip the cold, it's all in our tradition, it's all there. And what you do, how they what you do will do is help bring that tradition in this this to this contemporary language and contemporary interface through these kinds of programs through the apps. I think it's really, really important work and I really love what you both do. Mashallah.

Zack love, hate and

very kind of you what's holla? Brother with it? Just like Claire. Yeah, I was just thinking that here we are sitting together three of us, Peter, sitting here with his heart centered design, sitting here trying to build this beautiful community of content coaching community. We're also Mr. Hawley, you've been doing beautiful work for decades now serving the Muslim community. And you, both of you have been my role models. And as I think about this, who are we to talk about this beautiful concepts, prophetic concepts. And like, I think about me, like I'm a nobody. And I'm sitting here talking about this beautiful concept, this heavenly concept. And I realized that we're only elevated

to this platform, because we attached ourselves to these beautiful things, are seeking these things. We're on the journey to keep seeking God, even though we were weak and broken and imperfect, and had so many flaws of our own. And one of the things about people that want transformation is, take time to seek it. Take time to reflect on it take time to find teachers and environments and knowledge that can transform you. If you stay on the path long enough, God will open enough for you

as Elijah had to female anatomy and the homeschool and Allah will find ways for you if you keep seeking it. And I think that's the beauty of three of us being here that we had to sacrifice certain things, give up certain things and be on this path and make a resolution to we're gonna do this, we're gonna try to get there and we struggled along the way. But because we are on this path, Allah is helping us giving us those openings despite our failures and setbacks. So if you want to get to your best potential, this Ramadan and beyond, beat that intention, make the visualization where you want to go, take and stay consistent on that path and opening the book.

I would agree completely in having the intention and one of the things is when you're seeking it and sincerely praying for it, I think it was very transformative. When I did my it was my first ombre and I just stood by the kava, and it was a very emotional moment when I said Yola, use me in Your service, use me in Your service, and that was over. That was over probably 20 years ago. And the doors that opened after that I just I would surrender to each experience because I felt that if I'm asking to be used then I need to surrender to it. And I think that is that's very critical what you said brother would do it about wanting it being sincere, asking for it. And when we are sincere like

that, then Allah opens up so many pathways and puts people in our path and lightens lightens the journey for us Mashallah.

No hunger hamdulillah I'm just enjoying we've since you both said, it's great. And I see her really, you know, you're able to like, you know, who are who are we and I bet

At the same time we? Well, you know, we know that we have so much trauma, you know, what level one is that have so many stations of understanding and experience that, you know, we, we hope is ahead. And so I think one of my teachers, actually he passed away and I almost said, Look, Peter, if you met yourself on the street from 10 years ago, could you still relate? What would you relate, you know, meaning if you bumped into yourself, the 10 year earlier version. Now, for me, as someone that kind of embraced Islam, I took that very seriously, because I didn't ever want to be in a position where I'm sort of like, Oh, I'm in this elevated, you know, elite, spiritual station now. And so,

you know, I have to, you know, I can't, you know, people don't understand me, like, or so on. And, you know, especially where I live as well, most of the time, which is, you know,

not a place where, you know, people are too familiar with Islam. So I think be a part of that path is as being trying to embody what we're learning, and then trying to communicate that and trying to share these beautiful things through a character and throughout an interaction, and try to embody these principles. And if people ask more about it, great, you know, we can help share or, you know, refer him to people, but just knowing as well, that it's it is that consistent journey over time. And, you know, it's you, all of us, we sought this incredible blessings in the unmet open up over time. And then there's things that happened to you, which you they're, they're difficult, and

they're, they're shocking, and they're, you know, you know, unexpected, but they were, they kind of could be expected. It's like we know, the inner pathway, you know, this, these are designed for us to grow. So

I think just reminding each other and keeping good companies while having the rest of people that are on this sort of long term, path of seeking. That's been tremendously helpful for me as well.

Absolutely, our the people that we surround ourselves with have such a profound impact. And that changed my life when I was in my 20s. Because you can be you're born Muslim, but you may not be practicing it. And it was at that time, in my early 20s, when I was actually really inspired by a group of three verts. And that's why I always have a special they have a special place in my heart because the sisters, masha Allah, they had given up all the things in their lifestyle that they were accustomed to. They one was an aerobics instructor, and now she was in a bya and full hitch up and she was learning Arabic and memorizing Quran and teaching a class and I felt so embarrassed of

myself at that time, I was like, I never invested the time or energy in studying it. And I was a very studious person, I said, I never did that I didn't stay up all night, I would do that for my master's program. But I didn't do it for Islam. And they really inspired me because I felt that in seeking the truth and wanting to really embrace it, it made me want to like reflect on myself and become a better version. And that's why we wanted to focus this series on the reverts because I feel that they have a certain passion, and they hold on to it with a certain I mean, with a certain conviction that sometimes born Muslims take for granted. And we can be born Muslim, but it's about

also making a commitment to learning and being a better version of ourselves. So I hope that for those who are watching, they can look within and recognize what things that they need to maybe, maybe change, maybe let go up and, and start improving. And taking those steps and being inspired by people who change their entire lives. Because sometimes you're abandoned by your family. Sometimes you have to give up habits that were very customary. Some people are they give up the smoking, they're, they're drinking, they're dating, all of these things are very difficult for from a psychological perspective to give up and addiction to give up something that you're accustomed to,

and do it for the sake of a life feel is is amazing. It's beautiful. And whenever you give up something for the sake of Allah, you are just rewarded exponentially. So I hope we can all reflect on that and see, what is it that we can give up for the sake of Allah? And how can we basically even as born Muslims revert on a daily basis because we stray with our intentions, we stray with our love our character, and I feel like we have to have this continuous renewal and intention. So how living with intentionality in sha Allah beautiful I want Peter to

I have the final comment here on Qatar had a transformational Ramadan how to become a better version of herself become more versus doing more, not just do more, which we would Shall we will increase the quantity but how to become come out as a better version of herself. I was just about to say the same exact thing what you just said sister holiday, but we are also converting on a daily basis. We're moving from our lower self to our higher self.

I love I love that. That's amazing, Michelle. Yeah, so it helped me really love beautiful. And I would just say before we give it to Peter to end with this remark of how can you become a better version of herself and maybe you can close with the dog. I just wanted to say one, you know, Gretchen Rubin, she has done this thing called one word resolution. You know, working on a big list of resolution just working on that one word, you want to really go deeper and and you might choose something like gratitude for the year. And in our work on the spiritual framework. We're talking about the importance of intentions, this intentions and transforming ourselves with intentions in

our friend moment fires, he talks about high impact intentions, I think that's that's what he called it, but intentions are high him my intention like big intentions. And it's so important to understand this concept of like focusing on this one thing, you really want to transform it and going deeper. And if it helps take that one word that you were gonna really good. Like we talked about retail here, for example, take that one word and say this term of that I'm really going to really experience that in everything right? Just focus on the word experience, or focus on the word thing, like gratitude, I'm really going to focus on building my gratitude and everything I do,

everyone I come across. And sometimes that one focus helps you kind of like go deeper as well. Just Just a tip. But Peter to you.

Well, I think firstly, having tuning into programs like this with knowledgeable teachers, like yourself to really think understand, any dealing with helping people navigate the issues of the age, you know, with his understanding of how to articulating understanding the culture and the challenges and you know, the immediate things that people are facing daily. But you bring this, you know, this very timeless spiritual perspective with these concepts, I think, yeah, Mashallah. Just Just being around people like yourselves, and Muhammad Faris, and others that, you know, really helped communicate and remind us and are able to kind of embody and share those things, I think that's a

great, great way to start trying to spend Ramadan is in that,

you know, with the having a mindset to learn that if I was going to pick one word, for example, I do it. I think that's a nice concept, especially now, I would say hope, I would say hope because there's been a lot of glutamine, gloominess, there's a lot of being, honestly a lot of, you know,

things that are just hard to reconcile, even even as people on the spiritual path and trying to be in a state of redox

we're really being confronted with, with things that, you know, since especially October that we maybe

didn't do imagine what was not visible to us. And now it's very apparent. And I would say that, you know, a word that we would try to look at, even though it's going to be hard, it's hope. Because we also know that, you know, a lot is courage as us to not not be people are just there, but the people and it's only through for me personally, only through the spiritual perspectives can I kind of function and be, you know, and each other in a productive,

you know, person because,

without, without that hope, and that spiritual dimension and perspective, that is the wisdom that we don't understand as a heckler.

Without that, it's, it's, you know, there's a lot of myths, a lot of trauma to kind of grapple with. So I think being people hope, and being around people that, you know, understand that embrace that and see, you know, bring us that that perspective reminds us that there is a there is a hikma despite the difficulty of our human lens of that receiving so hope and you know, Inshallah, let's let's have a Ramadan of hope, you know, for each other and trial for our brothers and sisters around the world and try our next generation. Because, you know, we have to we have an obligation as well. It's a big Amman to take the knowledge we have and make sure that our young people are also feeling

positive and having a place in the world to be people of hearing people of hope, which

Allah, that's such a powerful thing to reflect on and insert USACE in ISO 87, Allah says Allah ye assume in rock Allah He inland, almost half the road, that barely no one despairs of the Mercy of Allah except the disbelievers. So here Allah is equating pessimism with a disbeliever. And so I always say that as men, we have no choice but to be optimistic. So I'm so glad that you brought that focus. And we are, we are bleeding, we are heartbroken, we are totally devastated by what's happening in us, and what our brothers and sisters have been going through for the past four months. And I just wanted to say that it has, ironically been a source of light as well, because of the way

that they are exemplifying the, as far as they are accepting the other. And so I just want to reflect on that, and on how you have seen us be a source of light.

No,

yeah, it's, it's, I, you know, I, the way that you're able to frame that and share that verse, you know, I really, I really felt that. And we have time to in Ramadan, to go back to those sources and go back to

this, you know, this clarity of understanding to give us that, you know, that certainty, and that was beautifully shared, Inshallah, where, where people have hope, and with people that embody that and contribute in whichever ways we can show it to, to creating that hope, in sha Allah, Allah. And have you been inspired by the way people have, they've lost everything, they've lost everything they see, we just recently had a community member lose their son, and it hits you really hard. When it's someone close to you. And you see the struggle, you see the pain and the suffering. And these are individuals who lose, you know, a dozen family members at once they lose their home, they lose their

businesses their way of their livelihood, and how have you been inspired by how they're handling these, these losses? Yeah, deep, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of feelings, you know, that we're all Navigating on. And, you know, a few weeks into October, in my community in Sydney, we, we asked, you know, we we needed a place to gather leads with, you know, just to kind of share and support and understand how our role and so invite invited, one of my teachers who kindly came in, gave him a really profound, a really profound,

you know, kind of lead a conversation around exactly what you're sharing is like, the, is the unseen realities of all of this.

And that, that we see. You know, we see just incredible resilience and this incredible spirit and this incredible spiritual strength that, I mean,

I just, I can't imagine it being tested like that. And yet, it's true that people from what I can understand anecdotally around the world are recognizing that, you know, one of my friends in Australia, he helps people who are interested in Islam.

He has he had 60 people embraced Islam, like,

the weeks after, because, well, the way he shared is because it's, you know, tremendous interest and like this, how these people how are these people maintaining this, this, you know, so yeah, there's a lot to unpack while but I just I appreciate what you said. Comment. Yeah.

Just like Hello, Hayden brother would do it. He wanted to.

I think you shall a beautiful reflection, beautiful hearing from both of you. Peter, do you want to

wrap this up with a short prayer? You'd like me, I may interject, I'm sorry. Because I have you here. There's it's a very critical question to ask and I apologize because I know that many people may not know the impressive clientele that you have. And from mashallah, the United Nations Palmolive, the Saudi royal family, you have and who else I have, there's a long list of highly highly,

you know, famous a lot, you know,

a lot but it's just such an impressive list of organizations and governments that you have worked before you

And I'm just wondering, how do you how do you stay balance with the you have the commercial success, which usually people are not able to handle success, whether it's fame or wealth, how do you balance that and how do you stay grounded in the midst of mashallah the success and the people that you work with? Yeah, Hamdulillah, Luca, Allah is Allah is very generous. And in the line of work that I do, you know, a guy namah for creating further work, but there's so much invisible work that is, you know, mountains, beyond mountains, more weighty impacts that that it's not Instagrammable right. And the, you know, it's, it's the Auntie's in the masjid, it's the community leaders that have to deal

with all kinds of trials and fitna and stuff to you know, to make, you know, a masjid function or to run a school and, you know, so I just humbly ly appreciate you saying that I also, I know that we all old Muslim professionals or parents that are like full time parents, you know, have had very similar challenges. I think, for me, or Hamdulillah, I've been blessed with a really supportive family 100 With there's a strong alignment in how, you know, we're trying to raise our children, how we're trying to navigate our way, you know, in this very hyper digital modern world.

And having having great stuff in mind teachers and mentors. And there's definitely been times I've been very out of balance, you know, but you have friends to sort of, and teachers to kind of, you know, try to keep your mind good role models as well. So, it's all of those things. And, Inshallah, it's, it's something that it's sort of never finished, where you're in that station of, you know, I'm balanced now. Like, think so I can't pick it maybe you have that at a moment. It's like, it's like happiness is a temporary emotion, but realize is, is the concept that you can live by. So, you know, in Sharla, we strive strive for that, for that, that balance. So appreciate the question that

and the kind words 100 Words. I love what you said about that. It's not like you can achieve it check okay, I have reached the balance or I have reached I'm self actualize. That is a constant effort. And brother would do it would you like to end this with a reflection hamdulillah there is there's a lot to really reflect on and I really appreciate how he brought out the aunties and the masjid.

And the beyond the center of many of these communities that started from infancy in Dallas to see them grow multiple massage, it's

you know, from the very infancy seeing them work, where they have come and the sacrifices of solid people that was they would never be known.

It's beautiful to see and you can learn from those humility of these people it's worth I really appreciate that you mentioned that Lula. Allah bless you both. Inshallah, may Allah grant us this tools and the opening to continue to rise and and go towards our, our best selves. But you know, the important thing to know that we cannot always be our best, we can always have the balance, like Peter just mentioned, it's a really important point, that don't give up hope when you are not having a good day or where you're not operating at your best sell. Because those moments will happen. A woman a believer fluctuates sometimes yes.

Just keep coming back. Keep coming back. And Allah will make up for the loss. And Shawn, if you could come in, I have a great analogy for that. So I love using analogies to depict what I'm explaining with, especially with my clients. It's like, if you're swerving off the road, when you're driving, what do you do, if you swerve off you swerve right back on. And so a lot of times in life, we may whether it's with scents, whether it's with hopelessness, whether it's imbalanced, we swerve off but then we have to swerve right back on and not aiming for perfection. I had a client just recently really struggle with the fact that because they don't experience horseshoe in their prayer,

they were really critical of themselves. And they really question their beliefs. And I said, If Muslims felt like they don't have who shoot then they're no longer like a good Muslim, then we would all be in trouble, right? So we are constantly working on ourselves and understanding that this is a process. It is a process and I love how both of you brought that into attention because when we strive for perfection, then we're always we're irritated and we have anxiety because Perfection doesn't exist is only Allah that is perfect. And I'm sure in design, it must be very challenging to put them a perfection in check because you want things to be a story