Inspirate Business

Edris Khamissa


Channel: Edris Khamissa

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The speakers discuss the challenges faced by a generation and encourage them to take action, including a former teacher's advice to encourage them to take action. They also discuss the importance of human capital development and the need for a culture of "any thing" to create a stronger work environment. The speakers emphasize the need for diverse views and empowerment for businesses and individuals, and suggest that the future is driven by people sharing ideas and experiences. They also mention the success of Stanford University's study on children and creative geniuses between ages and the importance of creating a culture of empowerment and diversity.

AI Generated Transcript ©

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salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu. Welcome to inspirate business, the show that's here to inspire you, to empower you and to enlighten you. And today on our red hot couch, we have none other than brother Idris camisa, somebody for who is a mentor to me, somebody that is a mentor to many, many people in our community around the globe, a world renowned icon. Idris is and we should, as South Africans be so proud, I believe, to have somebody of the statue of Idrees who who gives off so much of himself. A lot of times volunteering, just in terms of helping our our OMA address is got his hands I know, on the pulse when it comes to what are the challenges that our society is going

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through welcome uncle Idris, fondly known as oncology, so I'll be interchanging some time saying uncle Idris and Idris in the formal, you know, stature, welcome oncologists walaikum salam

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is always good to interact with you, you know, you know, your wonderful dramatic introduction, you know, would make another person nervous, you know, so but anyway, I feel uplifted by it. And I'm sure inshallah Allah's blessing, we will not disappoint the viewers each other. So I only learned from the best, I just have to give a quick rider you know, there was a time when I was, well, still quite involved in your own personal development and traveling around the world and going to learn and I bumped into this man who I didn't know, by the way, and he nudges another associate. And he says, you know, this guy, he's puzzling, you know, he needs to now stop going to learn from others,

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and eventually come and go and do His own work. So, thanks, Don Calidris, who then nudged me to start a journey on expressing my own gifts. I'm sitting here today. So that was just something that I needed to share. Actually, I'm curious, thank you so much, because I think I needed that a wake up call, you know, you know, they say people constantly develop and learn and, and then don't say you have to be doing I see that's a good point that you raise. Not because you're waxing lyrical about me is that every individual is unique and he has something to offer. You have something to offer. Offer it because when you offer it to other people, what are you doing, you give them the meaning in

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their life, you're uplifting them. You're healing them, you're giving them self worth and all of us being part to the Almighty of Nabi SallAllahu, wasallam should feel the self worth and say, What difference Am I making to the lives of other people? So this self worth that you talk about? I mean, I know you exude the self worth but it is a it is a challenge right now. Was this from your rearing as a youngster and I think for many of us, maybe we don't know some of your close associates know. And you talk a lot about chips, then the fund chips then tell us a little bit about your life growing up. I know you were quite an extended family, your siblings with your your parents that

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Allah granted I mean, Jana as well. Tell us a little bit about that. And where did the self come? Well, you always as confident as you are, you know what? I was really a shy clown. Okay, I was a shy clown, right? I mean, for example, at school, if there was a magician that wants to volunteer, the whole school will shout the teachers Cammisa camisa camisa. But I was really shy. And there are many factors that contributed to my growth. The one is I grew up in a very loving family. And I grew up with a father that had in a public profile, he was involved with the blind society with Forza with the Muslim Association. He was director and producer of plays. And in our home, we had Muslims and

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non Muslims coming almost every day eating with us, we still get visitors almost every other day. And, and my dad had this habit of he was quite an avid reader. And he said enjoy reading great articles, the newspaper, and he's always asked me my opinion. And in that way, I felt a sense of validation. Right? Then we had great teachers and I want to just this one tipping moment, it was a tipping moment for me. i The teacher was a good friend is still alive and metamer may last week in Cape Town smile. Kathrada was my father's friend and he said come home often and they were involved with the place together. And so we now

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As in standard eight, that is grade 10.

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You know, it was an all boys class and the guys were very naughty. They're right. And I the teacher of English and I don't want to name it. I am not too sure if he's alive. Anyway, he's to read like the essays the visa, right? And, and the students who laugh at my mistakes, you know, in actual love ha. So funny, sir. But no one knew that I should cry myself to sleep you see. And I never complained to my dad because my dad was very clear. My dad was your two column martinet in a strict disciplinarian. He told the teachers, the flesh is yours. The bones are mine. And my naivety, I thought my father is going to give them good Barney meat, not the woods. Those are the old school

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principal, old school. Yes, old school. So anyway, what happened? The next year, smart contract that was my teacher. And I remember this so vividly. I can almost remember web verbatim, what he said to me. We're doing a poem called The gods Grandia. Right. And I was sitting at the back of the class. And there was a young woman next to me ISIS, also gods. And so it, sauce pinching cheeks. So it started at a young age, that this love doctor. So anyway, so I wasn't paying attention. Because I had resigned myself to the fact that I'm useless in English. I resigned myself that you know what? Nothing, I would say people take me seriously. So smack a brother, notice me? And his words, were

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I'm not this is going back, you know, 5253 years ago, whatever Idris for? He said, You're a naughty boy. I said, No. He said, I am not leaving the class, until you give me your interpretation of the last two lines of the poem.

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And you know me, if you do not give it to me, I will give you the cold shoulder. Do you want the cold shoulder from me?

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Because I know what it meant, right? So anyway, I gave an answer to get him off my back.

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But I did not realize it was a profound answer. He said to the class, I want you to ignore my interpretation. That is his interpretation. And I want you to take down Idris, his interpretation. And he said to me this, why don't you give yourself a chance you have the ability, and what this was reinforced when he went the next class to do the same poem. And he said, You know what, I'm sharing with you Idris, his interpretation. And my cousin was part of the extended family. She told me that evening SMAC Ultra was really praising you. And that that was a wow moment for me. From that day, I became a voracious reader, I began to participate with Allah's blessing. Eight years after that, I

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became the chairman of the Indian society of South Africa. So the NIT good friends like AB Tao Ji and other people in pushups. And so there are lots of factors that contributed to our growth, you know, we, and it was, our home was a place of tranquillity. Every home had the challenges, but we had parents that believed in us, you know, so I mean, how important is it and I think that's a powerful lesson for, you know, the viewers watching is that, you know, a teacher that just nudges you, and brings out that latent talent in you, you know, it can either teach a parent can make or break a kid, because let's assume there was a negativity around it, you know, that could have broken

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you forever, and then you lose that gift. And then we'll have to find it later in life and peel off all the darkness that we've put over our gifts. And this is very, very important also, that of speaking positively to our kids, as a teacher, as an adult, as a parent, how important that is so critical, you know, they say, a teacher is not a sage on the stage, but a guide on the side. It's about that dynamic. In fact, you know, I'm so glad we're talking about this. And I'm very, very parasitic on new knowledge. I want to learn even a story. We were in Turkey. We are part of a global association, Islamic schools. They weigh about 70 of us present. And there are a number of things

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that were said that were very, very uplifting. Professor Abdullah May Allah bless him is in Australia is a Palestinian brother. He's shared this powerful story of a teacher. This powerful story is a story about a young boy, who was extremely naughty.

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And they put him in a special class. But this boy passed away. See, when the teacher got the news?

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He cried. So they were surprised. Why are you crying? Look at his response. Sam crying because Allah sent this boy to teach me patience. Look, how deep is that? To teach me patience? No, this is a whole thing using that in the school system. Each person has unique personality. If all students were self motivated, they were driven, they were intrinsically motivated, there is no need for a teacher. Your true tests crucible is when you can help that individual who is reluctant and demotivated and you've had so many experiences of this hair, having been a teacher yourself, who's up to today doing such amazing work with, you know, in the business circles as well with

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organizations in terms of their own development, you know, the Employee Personal Development, which is, I believe today, the key advantage for many organizations is that human capital, harnessing and nurturing and development that is the edge I mean, you everything else with technology is pretty much been automated. But that creates a force which I think can never ever be automated, that is that that human soul and to bring that out that Allah has given us that gift. So we've come to the end of the first segment been enlightened and intrigued by and by the way looking extremely handsome today, he's always handsome, looking extra special. Maybe because he's on the spray business show I

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like to believe so, but looking extremely handsome. So, let us explore this a tapping into that human soul and its development, which UGC is caught his 10,000 hours, the subject area expert on immediately after the break.

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Welcome back to inspirate business where we have none other than this world renowned educationalist. A practitioner in human capital development

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a name that's anonymous, in the South African circles internationally as well. Uncle Idris Cammisa. So we were talking in the previous segment about your days in poor Cheston this rearing, how a teacher, you know, nudged you to to find that latent talent in you, which then got you to be an avid reader. And you then went on, I believe, to do your masters in English was but yeah, yes. And and have continued and then you you went and you became a teacher? So, you know, at the time, I mean, I guess there were the options, which most young Indian men have the option of going into business, or you're going to the professional now, just let's get an understanding what made you get into this

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field? Okay, what actually happened was a I went to university to become a lawyer. Okay, right. So

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this is a case that didn't care and midstream, I met up with an accident, right? Okay. And so it affected my studies. And so I said, you know, what, two years at the university, I don't be a parasite, I'm going back home, I went home, my father said to me, son of my sons, you're the last one to open a business, your heart is too soft. And he told me, then there was his opportunity of being a locum

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at the school teacher of English. And I remember, when I went there to the classroom,

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I realized then, being on the other side, the power a teacher has either to liberate the mind of the child, to sabotage him, to give him hope, you know, the power you had, and it was frightening. Then I said, I like it. I began to love it. And, and I think, you know, maybe this is purely anecdotal. But because I was naughty, as a student, not do my homework at times, whatever playful. I think as a result of that, I'm more sympathetic than those teachers that did the homework all the time. The less patient with

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Children and I felt a lot put in my heart love for children love to understand who they are a love the psychology and so I am an avid reader regarding this. So this is what I began to do you know, I'm the law. So you then you you were you were a teacher and then you I lectured also the university in Cape Town on didactics and methodology and you've been

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provinces? Yes, yes. I mean, at one stage we're in roughly Yes, you in Cape Town as well. So you you've quite traveled, traveled right. And as an education is now what then then spurred you on to because although you say your your father told you not to get into entrepreneurship in the formal sense, you are an entrepreneur right now. Because you use in that Amana that Allah has given you this gift which you found this purpose of expressing it to

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kids in a class. Now you do it for organizations, as a businessman through education, what what made you then leave the formal teaching fraternity into the education in the business world, one of the things that I learned, you know, that in life, you must diversify, you got to diversify. And all of us have the capacity to embrace new knowledge. In the end, whatever you say, be business teaching, it's about relationship dynamics, is basically about who you are. And that's critical. You know, when you engage in business, when people come to you, do you inspire confidence in the other person? Do they believe and trust you? Would they take your recommendations seriously? Do you have the

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approach about win win situation, or you're the kind of person that wants to exploit others, it's about only profiteering at the expense of others in so this is the whole issue. And the critical for me a critical thing. And I've Alhamdulillah I love to read a, I'm excited about reading. You know, I've learned one fundamental thing. And the point that you made earlier on, that some people erroneously believe it suffices to teach people technical skills, but technical skills everyone can embrace. But the what is far more important are the soft skills, developing the right attitudes, a spirit of teamwork, professionalism, about unleashing the creativity, about validation. And all of

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these things are critical, because you got to understand that all of us are products of life experiences. And then sadly, you got some business enterpreneurs or some business people to not invest enough in the employees. A In fact, one of the things I say to people, that if I were to do a program for your company, there are three benefits. Number one, that individual will be far more productive. Secondly, be far more professional. And thirdly, which for me, is the most important thing, he'll be a better human being his spouse's will say what a man his children would recognize who he is. So, they love those programs and the other world summited give me a unique aspect to it,

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how I go about doing this is the following and, and I was also inspired by a statement someone made his someone asked him, How do you employ?

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He says, I employ people based on attitude.

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He said attitude, what about the skill is a skill that can teach, but if he doesn't have the attitude, I cannot help you. Skill, technical skill that can teach. Now you got to understand as human beings, we are gregarious social beings, we are friends and we are family. People have realized if the man is happier, Tom is far more productive in the workplace, right? So what So what do I do is say I come to you. And I say to yourself, Okay, fine. I'm here.

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What are your challenges? It says that, I say, okay, my suggestion is maybe let me do a program only for your managers. And I'll call it moving for management to leadership. Right? Then what I would do I make it clear, and I will interview all of them before I do the program. I say to them, Listen, I don't want it to appear is coming top down. I say listen, I'm going to do this program. This is what I'm going to include the what else you'd like me to include, so they are happy to participate. Then I'll produce 120 on a 30 page menu with the notes and worksheets and whatnot.

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And then I say to them in a month to six months, six weeks time, I'm going to evaluate you, you got to show me evidence of what you have done differently. And after I do that a minister questioner, then I'll produce 130 or 150 Page feedback, which can include graphs do include recommendations, observations. So people find that very, very useful. Right. So the bottom line is this, you know, especially after the lockdown, the looting, people's personalities have changed. People have become despondent, they've come inward looking. Extroverts have become introverts. There's a knee jerk reactions, far more road rage now than ever before. This is far more divorces than ever before. So

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we need people to get a grip on this life, you know, how we can maintain positivity, because as Muslims, you suppose the positive all the time, no matter what you're going through, we'd not give up because nothing happens except the middle of a line. You know, there's some very powerful things that you've spoken about. Yeah, that number one, look, business. A lot of people focus on the strategy of business. And it is very, very important. I mean, you need to understand operational strategies, marketing strategies, financial strategies, those are the mechanics of business. And there's so much of information that's available out there. And I think that's those are functions

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now that technology is enabling. I mean, you can have spreadsheets and you know, these now,

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there's apps now around, you know, even putting the business plan together, you know, just filling your information in there.

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What spits out is actually your entire forecast. So all of that is, but that, that development of the soul, that development of the individual, which makes up the culture of the organization, and they talk about this, they say, culture will eat strategy for breakfast any day in business. And I think that's the differentiator for businesses. I mean, you look at the leading companies, Apple has got its own unique culture, Google's got its own unique culture, you know, and it is about harnessing data. And I think that's the lesson for a lot of us. I know, we are not in survival mode businesses, yes, you need to get to that level. But it is about that. How do you get into that

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level? Were you in that enlightened organization, where you now making an impact and difference? And that's what my understanding is? Is the work that you do? Yeah, you see a critical thing? What happens? You know, some people go to them, they say, Listen, man, my staff are too busy to go for a workshop, they say all of these things. But you know what, you have not gone into the minds of these individuals, people may be coming they reluctantly purely to survive. There is no deep seated loyalty. And the point a question to be asked the fundamental thing, why should I come to your business? Why should I buy your products? What is unique about you wait, you're doing the same thing

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as others, therefore, people now are moving from, you know, customer satisfaction to customer experience? It's a fundamental difference to customer experience, when they walk in, is there a wow factor? From the time the person the security to the individual in the reception? How are people motivating you? And saying, I like to be there. You know what, I give you another example that we look, we're going to go to this example. And I want to explore this much further, this customer experience, this culture of how it's created, because I think we are in such an exciting, I believe the future of of Business at the moment, is that that creative creativity, harnessing that, and that

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becomes your edge immediately after the break.

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Welcome back to inspirate business, the show that's here to inspire you, to empower you and to enlighten you. And we talking to Uncle Idris, Cammisa a professional in the space of human capital development. How important how important is human capital development in the world we live in, I believe, strongly that this is the differentiator for the world and businesses and organizations today. Yes, we have all the strategies and it's all available, very important to learn those strategies. And you can get that through your degrees through courses. There's a lot of that around, you want to be a marketing guru, you need to understand marketing strategies, you know, consumer

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surveys, etc, etc financial strategies business, you know, you work out your your, your spreadsheets and so on. However,

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What's the point of all of that if you don't have that edge, you as a personal as a person needs to be whole. When you as a person, our whole organization is whole. And you create that uniqueness that innovation. And you spoke about a, you know, the various elements of human capital development. I think there's one other element which also becomes very strong, which is, how do you navigate through the complex world we live in? It is a fast paced world, who would have thought there's a thing called COVID Right, that would have come in 2019 I always laugh about it, I say 20 19/31 of December, if you ask somebody, listen, the whole world will come to an end, it will come to a stop

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Correct, right. You will say you crazy, you will go to a mental institute. It is what happened. What will happen in two years time? We don't know. Right? We can work or we can we can deliberate about who does what the point of the matter. It's just so dynamic. And you need to have the space spirituality is so important. And he talking about this in business, unheard of 10 years ago, spirituality was like a phenomenon for esoterics philosophers, religious people, today business people are talking that you need that spirituality. So this wholesomeness this an earthing of this innovative culture. How do you go about doing it in an organization practically? You see, I think

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it's important. If whoever is the head of the institution, people look at you. It is about you. Do you inspire innovation?

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Are you a kind of person that chastises mistakes? For example, there's a company in America? Can you believe this? They wanted to develop the idea of creativity in the company. And they say, if you make a mistake in pursuing creativity, they give you $1,000. Can you believe it? What a change whereby when they change the mindset, and what was happening, people were forced to think outside the box? Who are the people that are getting the brownie points today? Not the oil shakes of the world? And who thought the others who are thinking outside look at a guy like Elon Musk and come from nowhere, we knew about him and today is the the leader, everyone looks at him. And it's about

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innovation, right? Yeah. And this is the whole thing is, it's about, you know, we have become traditionalist, we are creatures of habit. And we are not prepared to stop and pause and say, You know what? So the question to be asked, you know, no matter how good your product is, in facts, statistics have shown Can you believe this, up to 70% of people will stop going to your company, because of indifference of one employee in the company? Can you believe that? So relationship dynamics, about about creativity, and about creating a culture, because remember this, every company has this culture, whether it is overt covered or intentional, or otherwise, when you walk in there,

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you say, You know what, I never want to come in I, for example, I say to people, if tomorrow this particular business tells you, we're going to give all our clothing free of charge. Would you go to the city? Yes. I said what if, when you go there, the person is abusive to you, is swears you because you fit for nothing, that kind of would you call this you will not go. But all of us have dignities we have dignity. And it's something that's important, right for all of us. So I think it's important for us, especially now, with things that in a low key, whatever, to look at how we can radically change things. If you look at

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use of, as you said, No one anticipated the situation we are in today. So if there are four groups of people in terms of what has happened,

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there is a small group that are doing far better than they ever did. A second group the status quo is the same. The third group far worse than they ever did. And the fourth group have shut shop wiped out, wiped out completely shut. Shut up. So my question to you is, what is the difference? What Why? Why do they a few that make it in remember, everyone is faced with the same challenge? Okay, I may be in the wrong sector. Could be that right? But let's say I'm in the same sectors as well, and I get wiped out somebody doesn't what is okay there are a few factors, nothing happens. Let us recognize a line this equation right. The other very important thing is this, that you cannot be

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gone are the days for you to have a shop in a corner and be passive. You can those days over those days are over. You need to say Listen, what do I need to do differently? Why should anyone invest in us and remember in the end, and I've seen it

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happen, if people love you and for who you are, that you are very, very critical, people will drive miles to come and shop by you miles because they can have satisfaction. And you find every individual requires the six things, any individual, especially now, because I tell people, when someone walks in is a husband

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is a father

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is a son,

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he may be going through his own tensions, what he wants from you is a smile. So, what he wants, he wants acceptance, he was information, he was acknowledgement, he wants affection, attention, and he wants

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to be given positive attributes to be told to that person. You know, for example, let us say you are a recurring customer, you and we have conversations, and I'll give you one example, I was doing a program for a group of shops they selling high end men's clothing. And so I was going to one of the branches, and there was a family there.

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And I asked this family, why do you shop here? The answer was so instructive. So revealing, they never said with the shop here because of the product in what they said, We shop here because all of them treat us as if we are the family. Just look at that

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in the family. So let us say you have come to me, and you told me, I asked you how you're doing, you know, just chatting. And he said, No, I'm a bit anxious, my daughter is writing a paper, you know, and the next time you come around, and I remember that, as you remember the last time we tell you about your daughter, how's she doing? And you see, he remembered that. So I'm important. And all of us want to feel the sense of importance, all of us one that all of us want validation human, the human touch the human touch, especially what it's been it's been lost through the technological advance. Absolutely. I mean, you hiding behind your little instrument, your technological

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instrument, whether it's your phone, or your computer, or whatever. Yeah, and yeah, you have in zoom calls, whatever. But you lose in that that human interaction. For example, they know people make this comparison beyond, I mean, between the Toyota model, and the Ford Model, the Ford Model employees, we said, We want your hands, you don't really want your mind. But the Tirta model is even you could be the janitor person walking on the floor. If you find something wrong, you can stop the conveyor belt. Look at that, you understand. So now was everyone is part of the place is significant. It's important. And you know what, when you validate your own employees, they want to

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go the extra proverbial mile, if you validate them, they're going to be loyal. If you validate them, they will not be passive, they will apply their minds. And I'll give you another example I did a program, I just want to just before they do bring in that point, I want to ask you something, you know, the reality of it is we in a country where look, the truth is we have

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us because of historical issues and so on a general competencies are quite low here, right? You have an high unemployment rate, you have generally the, you know, low level skills. There's So So So how then in organizations like that, because then the view is that Listen, how do you how do you develop? You know, skills like this, you know, how would you deal with it? Yeah, so they are so two things, they must go concurrently? Right? Firstly, it's your relationship

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as a collective and to the individual. And also upskilling them, giving them belief, giving them belief, right, that they can do it, and taking them step by step. And what happens is this, there is what you call a transformation, you know, in Islam is about gradualism. And in fact, studies have also shown right studies have also shown that if you employ someone exclusively for his skill, and he knows that his skill is a shortage of that skill, they found that such a person is never a team player. He thinks he is indispensable is above the law. And that often happens, that often happens, you know, therefore, in the book, Good to Great by Jim Collins, and you know, built to last. And he

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says, For me a very, very instructive manual about business and he argues, and he says that, you know, a business is like a bus. All of us are traveling in this bus. Sometimes you got to change the seating of the bus again, sometimes you got to stop the bus and ask those people to leave that are toxic to the company.

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You know, those are the tough

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decisions you may make also, you might have experienced another company, which is helpful, but you must adapt to the vision of your new company adapt to the vision of the new company. And I would say this year, if you have a program, a program of growth of self belief, and where you create an atmosphere that is not tense, for example, people example and all this people unbelievable and believe atmosphere is so easygoing, sometimes they said the longest phone call was made, I'd know how many hours a to a particular client, because when you leave they say you know, word of mouth, they say on average, every individual knows 200 people, and he would speak to 200 people about his

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experience. Now those 200 people, they have also known other 200 people, therefore, this book called hugging your customers, yeah. Firstly, a personal touch that that relationship management Yes, right. And, but you can do that when you yourself are personally developed, which is where you focus in on because as the individual in the organization, when you have this wholesomeness, then you create a organization that's wholesome. And then you can relate to your stakeholders, whoever they are, in a wholesome way, we've come to the end of the segment, you know, we can go on and on and on, because it's really powerful stuff. And I believe so important for businesses for organizations,

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whether they be NGOs, as well having the same challenges of how to differentiate yourself in this new world. Listen, it's not easy out there. There are huge challenges. But as you said, there are so many opportunities. But what do you need to do to harness those opportunities? And what do you need to be to harness those opportunities? Let's explore this in our last segment, after the break.

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Welcome back to inspirate business where we wish to inspire you, to empower you and to enlighten you. And that is our mission to provide some sort of skills, some sort of tools, through specialists that we have on what we termed this red hot couch from our sponsor is collective. That's out in Carmel. And today, we are being enlightened by none other than brother Idris, Cammisa, somebody who's a mentor to me and mentor to many others, who's done such wonderful work with organizations locally as well as globally. And we talking of what are the new age, the post COVID tools that can differentiate you so that you can excel? Because I do believe that as much as there are a lot of

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naysayers a lot of doomsday theorists. And it's realistic. Yes, no doubt, we, as a country faced many, many, many challenges. I mean, people from Kazan in your home province that have been through so much, yes, there's a lot of pain, but we've been taught through the prophet Sallallahu loosehead, probably one of the most difficult lives, yet always taught us to be positive and to have that Allah consciousness and that, that has guided him. So I know you infuse a lot of these principles into into organizations, but one may ask, because we talking about how to create the human capital in an organization, but one may ask is that can it work? You know, this is the the elephant in the room, I

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like to call it. You know, some say that, you know what, you just have to be dictatorial. And you just say what you need. And this is what, you know, it's like cogs in a in a wheel. Employees are cogs in a wheel, or do you go the other route, which is the sole laissez faire approach? And, you know, it's all created through its own organic way.

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Is it one or the other? Is it an infusion of the hybrid? Through your experiences? You know, you said there are a few factors. There is a book I came across is called abolish appraisals. Okay. Yeah, it says, because when you have appraisals in the company, it often suffers relationships, often does that. And he said, You do that by making sure you choose the right person for the job number one. Secondly, when you are compassionate kind, you unleash the intrinsic motivation. And I'm not suggesting that you become overly indulgent

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There are some things that are non negotiable, like punctuality, and so on and so forth. These are non negotiable things. And therefore, you know, the real question to be asked, in the end, how do you measure any company? How do you measure success, you often look at the profitability are not the kind of thing, but the real way is to measure it against your vision, your vision is so critical. Your vision informs your behavior, your vision, you know, creates the kind of climate, for example, we are part of the global association of Islamic schools. And one personal friend of mine workers from the UK, said, We should not confine ourselves only to Islamic schools, but to Islamic

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education. And therefore, our tagline is, to transform Islamic education is the difference to transform Islamic education. It gives his room for more participation, everything else. Now you find the reality is, you know, therefore, in the company, all of us, because of our humanity, we want to be treated as humans, and to be a human as possible. So you have an issue with someone, you try to invade a commerce rehabilitate him, talk to him about it, right? In the end, I say to people, you never make a decision to fire someone, that person made his own decision, especially now you got to look after your job, you got to say to yourself, you know, perhaps I don't fit into this company, I

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need to move somewhere else. So what I'm saying is this, that we got to create the culture, and environment. And I'll give you another quick example.

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Some years ago, the auditors of this company said, you know, what, we're going through a very lean period. And he had huge staff, massive staff, he says, We could ask a few 100 people to leave, you know, so because the owner was compassionate, no, I'm sorry. They're like my family, they must be another way. There has to be another way. So they addressed the whole group, maybe a few 1000, whatever. They said, You know what, we did not want you to lose your job. But we make a suggestion. And if you have another suggestion, by all means, share that with us. What is a suggestion? Is it Are you prepared? Each one of you to take one month unpaid leave?

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Look at that was the thing, what a thing. And someone said to me prepared take two months, they said, ironically, the production that year was the highest, you know, why? Because the person felt compassion for the other guy. He says, You know, I don't want to lose the job, I don't want him to lose the job. Look at that. So in other words, the answers, you know, you got to you cannot have a knee jerk reaction, you know, we cannot do these things, you know, like Simon center, you bring a very powerful point there, which is that to actually this is where that, as working as a community becomes so important. So I think the new term is also not necessarily competition, but coopetition

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is yes, we compete, but we compete in a positive way the benefit is of that sector. And you know, and our customers, yeah, so that, so that's a fundamental thing. So I think, you know, what saddens me to be honest with you.

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Many of our businesses, business people, do not read about the craft, do not seek help. Yes, not seek help. And then thirdly, you know, because, you know, I say to people, is Something brought you here today, it does not mean they will take you to the other destination, of course, you got to rethink, be very, very creative, and creativity, all of us are born creative. And that's the reality. In fact, a study that I shared, I'm proud to share it here again, is effective Stanford University, they tested 1000 Kids, between the ages of first they were four and five, and 95%. Tested creative geniuses, the same children between the ages of eight and 10, the percentage went

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down to the 32%. The same churn between 13 and 15. It went down to over 12%. So your environment is broken. Yeah, that spirit of creativity.

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We born with creativity, and then whatever. Yeah, societal, parental environmental norms have thwarted that delta effect. You saw and received this and I'm glad I'm talking to you. It reminds me You know, I want to write a book. Nabi SallAllahu, alayhi wa sallam, the prophet of creativity, if you look at the different things that he had done, so in the creative, unbelievable, you know, I mean,

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Look at the medina model that was created here said you had to think totally outside the box here compared to what the paradigm was at the time the norm. So it's about challenging yourself and coming up with the new right. And that's I think, the challenge and the opportunity today for us. I mean for the exam, just a few quick exam Nabi SallAllahu, wasallam.

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The people that were prisoners of war to get the release there to teach the children. Can you imagine how powerful is that? The you know, the Battle of conquer it was the Battle of the drench, right. So use use that talent of these enemies to actually enhance your own pavilion, and therefore another aspect which is prophetic, the whole issue of emotional intelligence, it's about how you deal with people, you know, we have become very, very impatient in the system. We are very impatient, and no impatience. We are rude, dictatorial, and the worst thing ever, is for your own employees to curse you, and they're coming, they're reluctantly to work. Secondly, they're trying to

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sabotage you, because the kind of person you are, I'm not justifying that. So what I'm suggesting is this, the models are there. And we got to turn to Allah, we can look at the prophetic way. We need to look at relationship dynamics, we need to diversify. We need to empower our people, you know, for example, someone said, Okay, I'm spending time empowering him. But he will leave my company, say at least, when he goes to the other company, he can say to them, I learned this ambassador for you. All the time. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. And, you know, you see this so strongly, and I hope you as a viewer have been picking this up, because I know this just listening to Uncle Idris, you know, you you

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combining this secular knowledge of yours that you are an avid reader of with this very strong ethos, these Islamic ethos, these universal principles of godliness, and consciousness, you know,

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spirituality, and how important that is in the world that we live in today. So, you know, I just think of it, you know, as you were speaking, and thinking, you know, if every organization may be a government organization, with all the challenges that we faced with, may be a private organization, small business, you know, could tap into this knowledge. And, and I mean, here's another opportunity, which I was actually just thinking put in my entrepreneurial that we do to take all of this and somehow automate it and systemize it so that you can go to many, you know, in sha Allah, because that I believe, would be so valuable. And, you know, if people want to write I mean, we

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obviously have your details at the bottom of the screen. But you offer your skills through organizations individually.

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How does that go i internationally as well, nationally, I meant to people, the last blessing. I've been to 30 countries now and I and I cannot thank ally enough and my parents and people that around me, and the people that give me an opportunity in this country to do programs for the companies, and they could contact me, you know, I just want to end it off with one versus a few. A few minutes left, and just leave this yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, yah, you know, I met someone at the airport, right? And, you know, in Islam, there is no coincidence. And he recognized me so he began to speak to me, it to me there is from the work you are doing, you know, what, how do you see the future and

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whatnot. Then he gave me in a story of

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solid doctorate fashion world. He said, You know, I'll never forget this. I used to manufacture stuff in these to buy from us. So one day Solly came there. And he gave me a huge financial gift. He said, I'm giving this to you, because the products that you sell to me, we made we have

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profited so much from it, besides itself to give you this as extra, can you believe that, you know, so this whole thing, you know, or is having Allah in the equation? And to understand it's not because of your smartness? You know, it's not because of your smartness. And life today is so fragile, you know, so frail, you know, and you know, Allah I've just a friend of mine is son of 1213.

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I'm not too sure what his real age was anyway, passed away, you know, and in a you know, your life is shaken by these things. So I think it's important for us to remain positive.

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You know, you they say that you'd rather do a biopsy rather than autopsy you know, whilst you are there you

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to reflect on what's going on, you know, have your powerful meetings, uplifting meetings, you know, and developing your mind is making them into leaders, you will see a transformation and the burqa, you will see, you will not be able to quantify, you know, yeah. So on. You know, we've come to the end already of the show, we thank you on behalf of inspirate business show, you know, for blessing us with your guidance, your esteemed guidance, I know you have helped me a lot in terms of my own journey, as an individual, as an individual as an entrepreneur. And, you know, whatever you going through whoever you are,

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whether you entering the business world, whether you intending to do so, in an organization, maybe you've lost your business, there's always hope. And it is about reaching out. And the likes of oncology's is there to reach out to just give you that nudge that his teacher gave him once upon a time, and that's why he is where he is. He gave me that nudge, that's where I am where I am. So it's like that we all feed off each other and so grow a stronger community, inshallah mean, As Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.