Channel: Adnan Rashid
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My name is Lynn and I will be chairing the meeting today. The topic is who is Muhammad, and our two speakers, Christian and a Muslim. Both believe that Mohammed existed, but they understand him in quite different ways, as we shall see. So without further ado, let me begin by introducing the first speaker, Dr. Bernie power.
Bernie has lived most of his working life in Muslim majority countries. He holds degrees in science, education and theology. his doctorate is on comparative religion comparing early Islamic and Christian texts. He travels to many Muslim and other countries in his teaching roles. Bernie believes that there are many misconceptions held by Muslims and Christians about each other. It is important that these misconceptions be understood and addressed. This can be done in an atmosphere of love and respect. But with full openness and honesty, Bernie is dedicated to that vision.
Before I start the other day on Friday at nine gave me a coin as a gift as a sign of friendship.
For for here, and so I want to return a gift to him. I'm giving him a copy of my book. I'll tell you why I've given him this particular one later on, but it's very important.
So our topic today is who is Muhammad? I'll start with the comment on the sources that I'm going to use for my talk. The first one that we'll use is the Quran. According to Muslims, the Quran is the earliest Muslim document, but it's actually a poor source for information about Muhammad. It lacks details, places, names, dates, contexts, anything about Mohammed period. Muhammad, in fact is named only four times in the whole of the Quran. The second so we need to look elsewhere for details about Muhammad. The second source I'm going to use is the the first full biography or Sierra of Muhammad, which is written by a guy called urbanists. Hark, who died 135 years after Muhammad, and it was
edited by Ebony Sham who died 200 years after Muhammad. We don't have the copies of the original his hawks book, only even his Sham censored reduction of it. I'll be referring to the Hadith compiled by Al Bukhari and Muslim and these were written 220 240 years after Muhammad died, and my fourth source is the Tabriz, Tarik or history, and he died nearly 300 years after Muhammad. These are quite light sources. From a historical perspective, they're the best ones that we have. But this isn't relating to the sources. I'm assuming that these documents are an accurate history of the of the life of Muhammad.
I've written three books, which strongly featured Muhammad. The first one called understanding is that Jesus and Muhammad seeks to maintain a balance between the two personalities between Jesus and Muhammad. The second one is the one I gave at nine is called engaging Islamic traditions is very affirming of Muhammad. It has a chapter called positive aspects of Muhammad's life. 25 pages long, another one called positive treatment and depiction of women 12 pages long, it presents a very optimistic view about Muhammad. The third one called challenging Islamic traditions is more critical of Muhammad. And Adnan, I'm sure will give her a more positive perspective on Muhammad's life, then
I'm going to give but today I'll be drawing from the first and the third books.
My intention is not to insult anyone or to upset anyone, but only to inform you about what the earliest documents have told us. And if I fail, I apologize in advance.
Let's go through with some history. Muhammad, according to Muslims was born in Mecca in about 570 ad. His father, Abdullah died before he was born. His mother's name was m&r, and she died when he was six years old. So he was an orphan from from childhood. He was brought up by his uncle obatala. As a child, he worked as a farmer, sorry as a shepherd, and later became a trader leading camel caravans from Mecca up to Damascus. He had a good reputation and he was called El amin, the faithful one or the reliable or honest one.
At age 22, it's already at age 25. He was proposed to by Khadija, now she was 40 years old and the age gap was enough in Arab culture at that time for her to be his mother. She had been married twice before she was wealthy and powerful. In fact, she owned the international trading
company that Mohammed worked for. So Mohammed married the boss.
He didn't have to work anymore. So he went on a spiritual quest.
The Arabs at that time were idol worshipers. And they worshipped at the black shrine called the Kaaba in which is in the center of Mecca. It's still there today. At that time, it has 360 idols. In and around it was a bit like the Greek Pantheon the Arabs were a polytheistic people.
But Muhammad wasn't happy with this. And he took to fasting in Ramadan and meditating in a cave outside Mecca. On mount here is a picture of it. It was a pagan custom called to hand us. And one night when he was about 40 years old, he was asleep in the cave, and a being appeared in his dream, and showed him a piece of fabric with some writing written on it. And this being ordered Muhammad to do something he couldn't do to read, Muhammad was illiterate. And the being kept ordering him to read and grab him and squeezed him so tightly that Mohammed thought he was going to die to suffocate from this. The being then recited the verse that was written on the fabric, and Muhammad repeated it
after him. And you can see that there, the first passage of the Quran was revealed to Muhammad. And then Muhammad woke up from this what was that pretty scary nightmare.
He thought that he had encountered a demon, and he ran screaming to his wife saying, cover me cover me. And she did. Deja wrapped him up in a blanket, lift him shivering there. And she went to visit her cousin, a man named water could be northwell, who was a Christian, and told him about what Muhammad had told her. And workers said that being was an angel. It wasn't a demon. And then worker died a few days later.
No more revelations came for another three years. And Muhammad became very depressed. And he said to him, I think your Lord must have come to must have come to hate you.
Mohammed tried to commit suicide by throwing himself off a high mountain. But the being then reappeared in front of him and identified himself as the angel Gabriel. And so Mohammed was reassured that time, but several other times he went and attempted to commit suicide.
Initially, Muhammad only told family and friends about his dream, and eventually he was threatened with violence by Allah if he didn't start to preach publicly. And so he went out into the streets of Mecca and started preaching, telling people publicly what he had seen and heard.
Well, it didn't go too well. For 12 years from 610 to 622, Muhammad presented the message of Islam as a peaceful preacher, he told the Mexicans to turn away from their false idols and to worship only Allah, the Arab hi God. So the Arabs already knew about Allah. The result was only about 200 followers out of a city estimated population of 330 1000, so only about 1% of the population chose to follow him. And there was a lot of persecution both for Muhammad himself, but also for his followers. Some were some were killed.
In 621, he received so by this time, he's 51 years old, he's received an invitation from some people in the river city to the north, which was later renamed Medina. And the following year, he left Mecca in a migration called the Hydra and the Muslims left with him and they settled in this new city.
Whereas Muhammad had been peaceful in Mecca, he now received a new revelation from Allah that He could use violence, to wreak vengeance on the on the Meccans to gain wealth and also to spread Islam. Once he had settled in Medina, he had political power and he had military capabilities. And so he used them both. He sent his troops out on he went out on 28 military campaigns himself called out as well, and then ordered his troops to take part in another 50 others called Assad iya. So on average, there was an Islamic attack somewhere on the Arabian Peninsula every six weeks or so, in the last 10 years of Muhammad's life. He engaged in this until his death in 632 ad when he died at
age 62 or 63. He's buried in Medina and his grave is still there today.
So readers of the Quran are told you have a good example in God's Messenger, and he presented himself as the best one to follow. He said, By Allah, I say I see a lot more than you do. I'm more obedient to Him than you.
It's he said, He who does not follow my tradition in religion is not from me, not one of my followers. He said, What is wrong with such people as refrained from doing a thing I do. By Allah, I know that I know Allah better than they and I am more afraid of him than they. So he puts himself out there as the
The best model for someone following Allah. He also presented himself as pre eminent in the world, the universal prophet. He said, Every nation used to be sent to his nation early, but I had been sent to all mankind. He claimed absolute geographical sovereignty. He said, the earth belongs to Allah, and to his apostle,
is thought this gave him universal responsibility. He said, Allah has trust trusted all the people of the earth to me. So clearly Muhammad thought of himself and is described as the best example of humanity. And as the final prophet for the whole world. It won't come as a surprise to you that I don't believe either of those claims. So I've been studying Islam for over 40 years, and I would have become a Muslim many years ago, if I believe this. I've lived in Muslim countries I've seen in faced Islam. And based on what I'm going to say, Now, you will understand why I haven't made that decision. We're going to look at 10 aspects of Muhammad's life. And these raise serious questions
about him. And they're listed there, his moral character, his military history, his treatment of enemies, his involvement with slavery, his treatment of women and children and the handicapped. What he said on his deathbed, his final destiny and his inability to save anyone.
Some Muslims claim that Muhammad was a perfect human being, but he was actually quite open about his own faults. He said, I seek forgiveness from Allah 100 times a day, or Bukhari he says 70 times a day. And he wasn't just being humble, because the Quran tells us tells in the Quran, Allah tells him five times, is seek forgiveness for your sin so stuck for a reason because it's your personal sin. And Mohammed responded by praying, Oh Allah, forgive me my sins, what that I did in the past, or will do in the future, the things I did in secret or in public, so he has all the bases covered there.
Muhammad is it's clear from these passages that Muhammad never was and never claimed to be sinless. He needed God's forgiveness, just like you and I do. And imperfect person cannot be a perfect model for all humanity. And all of this information. By the way, we've got a stand up the back with the brochures on it, it's written up in my books, or you can get it from my website. Everything is referenced from the earliest Islamic sources.
Muhammad lived in violent times as his troops attacked village after village as I mentioned before, they pillage the wealth taking gold and silver and camels and sheep as booty. And here's a list of the military campaigns that Muhammad was actually can't see it very well, that Muhammad was involved in. But there's sources for those he's followed was killed and enslaved and mistreated many of those they captured is an example in the town of haber. A Jewish man named cananda been Arabia was the keeper of the town's treasure. And Muhammad gave orders about about him saying, torture him until you root out and extract what he has that is where the treasure is hidden. And so Zubair kindled a
fire on Canada's chest, twirling it with his fire stick until Nana was near death. And then the messenger gave him to muslimah who beheaded him.
That night, Mohammed had sexual relations with Canada's widow Sophia, and he said, I have been named Victoria through Tara. So there's details here about Muhammad sayings about Jihad as well.
When people tried to oppose Muhammad because of his violent actions, and he's claimed to be a prophet, he often treated them badly. An example, as the daughter of Marwan was the mother of small five small children. She had composed a poem against Muhammad, and he stood up in the mosque and said, who will rid me of Marwan daughter, and Omar bin o de la hatami. Got went to her house that night when she was asleep, and he removed the infant from her breast and stabbed her to death. And then he reported this to Muhammad who said, You have helped Allah and His apostle, as Mel was just one of many and the list is there on the right hand side of people that Muhammad ordered to be
killed for opposing him. There were many who were taken out by his death squads. All of this again recorded in Islamic sources. in Medina, for example, every Jew that was there when Mohammed arrived was either expelled enslaved or executed within five years of Muhammad arriving in the city.
Slavery was widely practiced amongst the Arabs. The Quran taught that freeing slaves was a virtuous act. And, and Muhammad did free his slaves aid bin haritha and actually adopted him as a son because Muhammad's sons had died as babies he had no air. And this was before Muhammad became a prophet.
After he became a prophet at age 40, he continued to acquire slaves, up to 40 of them and we have the names of them listed there. His men
captured many more and 1000s were enslaved because of Muhammad. We see there he also sold slaves for other people, and he ordered some of his female slaves to be flogged.
child marriage was apparently acceptable in in Muhammad's time and he practiced it. in Medina, he took Ayesha, the daughter of his best best friend, and it said the Prophet married her when she was six years old, and he consummated this marriage when she was nine years old. And again, we've got the earliest sources and the most reliable sources giving the testing to those dates. And the question is, is a 54 year old man having sexual relations with a nine year old girl a perfect model for humanity?
Muhammad also married 10 other women although some Muslim scholars give a higher figure and he was involved in violence against them. One night Ayesha, who by this time was a teenager she he died when she was 18 went outside the house without his permission. And she reported that when she came back, he struck me on the chest which caused me pain. He ordered that other women be killed a man accused his wife of adultery to Muhammad. And Muhammad said to one of his followers, go to the wife of this man and if she confesses stone her to death, and then Oh, nice went that to that woman. The next morning, she confessed, and Muhammad ordered her to be stoned to death. These are just samples
there's many more that I could have drawn for this.
Although Mohammed could be brave in battle at other times, he lacked courage and compassion. He advised his followers to run away from a leper as one runs away from a lion. He married a kindred woman named Mr. Benton, not a man, but discovered on the wedding night that she was suffering from leprosy, so he divorced her immediately.
A more compassionate response might have been to keep the wedding promise for better for worse, in sickness and in health and to care for this unfortunate woman. In his own household, he already had 10 other wives.
In the Quran, Mohammed is rebuked by Allah for frowning at and turning away from a blind man Abdullah bin Maktoum,
who had come to him seeking spiritual guidance. Mohammed was more interested in attending to a wealthy and powerful man. And so he didn't always show compassion to the disabled.
Muhammad died lying in the lap of his favorite wife Ayesha. And at the last moment Mohammed said, may Allah curse the Jews and the Christians for they built places of worship at the grace of their profits. This was just one of many instances of Muhammad cursing people and I've got a whole list there. There's dozens of them that you can see these are all reported by so he held Buhari.
Unfortunately, this would seem to disqualify Muhammad from being an intercessor or mediator. On the final final judgment. aboda reported, the Messenger of Allah said peace and blessings be upon those who curse those who curse others will not be intercessors or witnesses on the Day of Resurrection.
And some Muslims hold out the hope that Allah will intercede for them on the Day of Judgment, but based on Muhammad's actions and his own words, he's not qualified to do that.
There was something else that Muhammad experienced on his deathbed, which raise questions about him. There's a verse in the Quran which says, and if Allah is sorry, if Muhammad had forged us for saying against us, that is Allah, we would certainly have cut off his aorta, and you could not have stopped us or withheld us from punishing him.
Some people think that this prophecy was fulfilled on Muhammad's deathbed, he
reported that he used to say, Oh, I shall I feel the pain caused by the food I ate at haber. And at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison. The poison was from a Jewish woman who gave that to him because he had killed her family.
Whether you believe with this connection or not, it's clear that Muhammad had no certainty about where he would end up. He said, I don't know what's going to happen to me or to you. The cube by the way, stands for Koran. He said by Allah, even though I'm the apostle of Allah, I don't know what Allah will do to me or to you. He said the good deeds of any person will not save anyone. They they said, not even you Allah's Apostle, he was supposed to be the best person who's ever lived. And he said, not even myself unless Allah bestows his favor and mercy on me. So Muhammad, despite all his achievements and qualities, was never certain that he would go to Paradise. So it's not surprising
then that he could offer help that he could not offer help to anyone else. He gave the following advice to his family and his followers. Oh people love of Quraysh that is his own tribe. Buy or save yourself from the Hellfire as I cannot save you
from Allah's punishment, oh Benny abdom enough his own clan. I cannot save you from Allah's punishment, or Sophia the art of the art of Allah's Apostle, I cannot save you from Allah as punishment. Oh Fatima, my own daughter asked for me anything you want of my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah as punishment. So, to conclude, it should be obvious why I don't think Muhammad is the best model for humanity to follow. He was conscious of his own flaws and shortcomings. If he thought he was more obedient to God than anyone else, he was clearly lacking in discernment, so he could not be a prophet. He wasn't the worst person to ever walk on the earth, but based on his own
sayings based on his actions, and the reports that we have of the earliest Islamic records records, he was clearly not the best person. Thank you.
Thank you, Bernie. And now we have the opportunity to hear from Mr. Adnan Rashid. He's a historian with a specialty in the history of Islamic civilization, comparative religion and Hadeeth sciences. He has an honors degree in history from the University of London, and is currently pursuing further studies. He takes a keen interest in Islamic new numismatics, ancient manuscripts and antiquities. He is presently serving as hottie at a West London Mosque where he is conducting an extensive course on the tough sphere of the Quran. anon believes that Islam is a way of life which promotes modernity in all of its positive manifestations, and provides practically realistic solutions for all problems
of mankind. Mr. Nan Rashid.
Bismillah R Rahman Rahim is the Name of God,
the Merciful, the believer sent the God of Moses, the God of Jesus and the God of Mohammed. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for attending today's debate. I thought Bernie was almost going to become Muslim today. For the first 10 minutes when he was speaking, I was thinking, wow, I couldn't defend the prophet like that. But the last 10 minutes, I was completely blown away with a lot of misinformation and outright lies as it was in due course. So to begin with, I would like to advise my Christian Brothers and sisters, to never take information from inauthentic sources, always authenticates sources before you start to believe them. And what are the inauthentic sources of
sources? Right? Number one internet, never believe anything you read on the internet, go and check it. Check it against the actual language, the Arabic language, the original way, the text is coming from. Number two never believe a Christian missionary talking about the prophet of Islam, because they have nothing good to say most of the times, never believe. And extremist atheists are new atheist, who hates the Prophet by the virtue that he preached to worship one God. So some of these people cannot be believed and we will see in due course why I say that.
I have a presentation I want to present in front of you. But before I do that, I will quickly pick on some of the points raised by burning
Koran is a poor source is that of Prophet Muhammad's life? That's very inconsistent of Bernie to say that because the New Testament is a very poor source on Jesus Christ. What do we find in the New Testament about Jesus? Nothing, virtually nothing apart from his ministry, and fragmentary information here and there. How do we find where he was, how he was born, or where he lived for the first 30 years of his life, where where is the information about the first 30 years of his life? Even his genealogy we are given into gospels is not consistent with each other. There are heavy problems with the biography of Jesus Christ, even the crucifixion. The narrative of the four
gospels, differs heavily even on the crucifixion when we go to the details. So if anything, the New Testament is a poor source on the life of Jesus Christ, not the Quran, the Quran never came down as a biography of the Prophet of Islam in the first place, but I never claimed to be a biography. So to expect the Quran to give you a biography of the Prophet is quite telling, Sera, Sera literature which Bernie put up those four sources in front of you the Quran, and then he put number two was even inside for some reason, I don't know where Bernie got that from Bernie claims to have studied Islam for years, he should have known that even a primary level student of Islam knows that even his
talk is not an authentic source of Islam. If anything, a Christian equivalent would be an apocryphal, apocryphal gospel. Do you believe in gospel of Judah? For example? Do you accept the Gospel of Thomas as a valid source of information on the life of Jesus Christ? Do you accept the gospel of Mary Magdalene and nagamani scriptures and all these documents attributed to Jesus Christ in the first few centuries, you don't. Likewise, we have a consistent view on ourselves.
Is the Quran is number one and the Hadith literature which Bernie picked on. But what Bernie did, he mixed up authentic information with inauthentic a lot of the unpleasant stuff he read was from ebony sock for some reason, and
most of that information is inauthentic. It is not acceptable. We don't accept it, it is inflammation, we cannot trace it back to the sources. We cannot trace it back, just like the Christians reject all those apocryphal gospels, hundreds of them
attributed to Jesus Christ. So we have to be very careful about when information comes from some Christian missionaries. What I've been known for was a man who mentioned angels and demons, he told Muhammad that this was not a demon, it was an angel. There is nothing about a demon in that report. So to put a spin on the report, to caricature the report in a way that it sounds very kind of mysterious that there was a demon or there was a there was an angel worker never mentioned a demon Rather, he said to Mohammed harden, moose Allah, Venus de la Allahu Allah Musa. This is the Arabic language. This is the same angel that came upon Moses. And he told hammer that this is for told in
the previous scriptures because I'm a man of scriptures. So he was referring to the book of Isaiah chapter 29, verse 12, where it's clearly stated when the book is given to the one who is not learned and it is said to him read, he will say I am not learner. This is exactly what happened to Muhammad, peace be upon him in the cave. The angel appeared to him said Tim read and he said, I am not learner. This is a prophecy fulfilled in him a biblical prophecy, which Baraka confirmed and Baraka died a Muslim having believed in the prophet of Islam, which is another matter altogether. Bernie said he is the study of Islam for the last 3040 years and he is not a Muslim. I can give you an
example of Jewish scholars, Giza vermis. He's an academic he has published heavy works on the Bible. He has published commentaries biographies of the life of Jesus Christ, Giza vermis. He is a Jewish scholar who has studied Christianity for 50 years more than you have. And he's not a Christian. He didn't accept Christianity. So what does that mean? I have studied Islam for 30 years, I have studied Christianity for 20 years, the best part of my life. I'm not a Christian. I'm a Muslim. I'm a very firm Muslim who believes in Islam. This proves nothing. These are cheap shots, by the way.
By the way, my tone, please do excuse me, this is a debate. Me and Bernie, we will hug each other afterwards. And I'll potentially kiss him on his cheek as well. You know, to express my love for my respect and honor for my profit outweighs my love for Bernie, I hope you understand that. So I love you all. My Christian Brothers and sisters, the reason we are going through this exercise to share my love to you, and my love requires that I give you authentic, right correct information about our prophecies, but you can think about it, you can go and read about him and see whether what I tell you is true.
When Bernie Pope pasted that word, or that verse from the Quran, the stuff for Adam Baker, in the Quran, God talks to Prophet of Islam directly, and the reference is to his people. So God is talking to the Prophet so that the message reaches his people. When God tells him that seek forgiveness for your sins. He's talking to the Muslims, because we have so many reports, as we will see in due course, where the Prophet was completely free of sin. We were told that he was forgiven, he was guaranteed paradise. Bernie claimed that he was not certain about his end. How can we not be certain about his hand and and he's telling his companions you are promised paradise. He told his companions
Abu Bakar Omar Osman Ali, Abdullah Majora and Sudbury workers and the list goes on and on and on. He told them, you are guaranteed paradise. You will be in paradise you will have salvation. How can you be telling people when he doesn't know where he's going? He had confirmed information. Well, God Almighty was a trooper of a prophet of God, he received this revelation that he is forgiven. He is in Paradise, he's guaranteed paradise. So I don't know why Christian missionaries keep coming up with this idea that the prophet of Islam had no certainty of his end, then Bernie mentioned torture,
And if you look at the source is in his heart. There is no authentic report about the prophet of Islam, and this is the reason why we're proud of his legacy. torture is absolutely forbidden in Islam, it is haram, it is prohibited. Muslims cannot indulge in torture. We cannot. And the report he read was, again, a dubious of forgery.
A completely, you know, inauthentic information, which Bernie came up with for some reason. I challenge Bernie to produce a reference on torture from one of our authentic sources. We have six authentic books of Hadith that contains 34,000 reports about the prophet of Islam produced one report on torture.
jumps to a sock,
which is very, very disturbing. And if you want to talk about torture, and barbarity, and war, and destruction, and getting married to younger women, and all that, have you read the Bible, Bernie?
Have you read the Bible? I'm sure Bernie has read the Bible very carefully. And the same Bible, on Bernie's table there. When you read the book of Second Timothy,
chapter three, verse 16, states, All scripture is God breathed.
It is good for correction, righteousness, and teaching. In other words, all scripture and Paul is specifically talking about in this particular passage about the Old Testament, because the New Testament is not even in existence. Paul was the first author of The New Testament, according to most Christian scholars, he died in 60. c, the first gospel is thought to have been written between 60 to 70. See, the gospel of Mark, the New Testament doesn't even exist. So when Paul says all Scripture, he's talking about the Old Testament, in the Old Testament, what do we read? Moses tells the Israelites go into the villages in the towns of the America, people, kill men, women, children,
suckling infants, suckling infants and camera knocks. I asked this question, men and women, of course, it's absolutely disgusting and disturbing why they have to be killed in war. But what have the ox done? What have the candles done? Right? So the Bible even commands to torture animals. There's nothing like that in Islam. Okay, I want to see Bernie come back and defend the Bible. And again, to point out something very clearly, Bernie when he will launch one attack against the prophet of Islam, albeit based upon dubious and inauthentic sources, I will throw 10 folds back at him from the Old Testament, which is all Scripture, good for righteousness, teaching, and morality.
So, so this is the Scripture, the Old Testament, is good for all the good things for the Christians. The Christians have upheld the Old Testament, throughout centuries, even after Jesus disappeared. You want to read the Christian history, there were people being burnt alive, in the West in Europe, and later on in the Americas people have been burnt alive. And where did the inspiration come from the Bible, the Book of Leviticus chapter 20, and 21. You burn people alive, you burn people, right? The Christian look burning, witches and heretics, scientists, Galileo nearly got got burned. Today, you love Galileo. But at that time, Galileo was nearly burnt. There were people burned at stake,
hundreds of 1000s of them, inspiration came from the Bible. I can use all that and throw it at Bernie and asked him to defend it. I want to see how Bernie will actually defend that. So if all of that is good for teaching, morality and righteousness, the Old Testament all Scripture, it is clearly stated by Paul and you believe that you uphold that you cannot reject that. If that's true. Then, on what basis? Do you attack the prophet of Islam for being a ruler for being a lawgiver?
what basis do you use? You have an adversity you have to be inconsistent, and hypocritical to come and attack the prophet of Islam like that. When you have the Bible in your possession. You read it on your table, the Book of Numbers, chapter 31, verse 17, states, when you go into the villages, take young girls for yourselves as slaves, and do what with them. I leave that for you to imagine. Moses commanded the Israelites go. All scripture is good for righteousness, for teaching and morality. This is what the Bible states in the New Testament, Paul said that all scripture means the new test, sorry, the Old Testament. So it is very clear now. That burning
played a very
dangerous game today with the life of the Prophet and his impression and his image. There's a reason why some Christian missionaries have to do that. Nowadays, Christian missionaries around the world, their focus is to drive people away from Islam. There is little preaching of the gospel, there is no love of the gospel with a lot of the Christian missionaries. I'm not I'm not saying all I'm saying a lot. When you watch some of the stuff online, you see a lot of hate against Muslims, a lot of hate against the prophet of Islam. And the purpose is to drive because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Hundreds of 1000s of people are coming to Islam, in Africa and South America
and South Far, Far East, Far East Asia, every single place you go to people are coming to Islam, and the Christian missionaries don't know what to do. So they are doing this to drive people away from Islam. So people do not even consider Islam, let alone become Muslims. So slavery
And females and all that things, all those things were thrown at me from burning. So it's very disturbing, because all of that is in the Old Testament and is good for teaching morality and righteousness. And if that's the case, you either come back and disowned the Old Testament say the Old Testament is barbaric, uncivilized, completely, we need to drain it, we need to flush it down the toilet, come back and do that. If you don't do that, if you stand by the Old Testament, you consider it the Word of God, and good for righteousness, correction, and morality. Then come back and say Prophet Mohammed did exactly what he was supposed to be doing as a prophet of God as a
ruler, appointed by God Almighty, just like Moses, David. And marriages, look at their marriages, David, how many wives did he have? How many wives did Abraham how many wives did Solomon a prophet of God in the Old Testament? How many wives did he have? And Jesus never condemned any of them? The Christian missionaries do today. For some reason, Jesus never condemned any of them. He actually upheld the legacy.
Then Bernie came up with a lot of this, you know, an avalanche of misinformation. I shall felt pain because profit structure on the chest if Bernie knows the Arabic language, I assume I want to assume good what Bernie either Bernie is ignorant about our sources, or he is disingenuous. I wouldn't like to think the former I would go for the latter I would go for the former. Bernie is ignorant, right? When you read the Arabic word in that report, it says falada which means to press, Christian missionaries been at it for a very long time using this particular report, that Prophet struck Isaiah, he never struck anyone in his entire life. We will see in due course, what I mean by that
even his servants even serve as their testified to the fact that he was the most gentle person to walk the planet. He was the most loving and compassionate person to walk the planet, as we will see, very quickly if I get time.
Then Bernie mentioned stoning. Someone was brought and he ordered. Well, it's there in the Old Testament, All scripture is good for righteousness for teaching for morality, it is very important for you ladies and gentlemen. If All scripture is good for righteousness from from from morality, for teaching, then it is there. It is the Jewish law in the book of Leviticus. If anything, the prophet of Islam is continuing the the tradition, unlike the Christians who follow Paul, who was an imposter, in our opinion, for some reason the Christians have completely believed in Paul who is not foretold and Prophet Muhammad was directly foretold in the Old Testament, as we will see, again
later, he is directly foretold in clear words that they will be a prophet from Arabia. If he's not foretold, then where are references to him. He created one of the greatest civilizations in human history poets, universities, libraries, thinkers, intellectual scientists, moral men, generals, Kings, Jews and Christians flourished under the protection of Islam for over 1000 years Jewish scholars to this day, remember that age as the golden age of the house of Israel, when they were protected by the Muslims for over 1000 years who stayed who said so Bernard Lewis, in his book, The Jews of Islam,
Mark Cohan, who's a Jewish historian from the US, he states that the Jews were treated far better in the Muslim world during the Middle Ages than they were treated in the Christian world. What happened to the Christians? Why was the first one of the Jewish people and that's another history we can discuss later. Blind Man example again, read the Old Testament as well as the New Testament carefully cursing Mohammed Mohammed curse to many people. That's what Bernie said, Well, if you read the New Testament carefully, Bernie you would never use that against the prophet of Islam. Jesus cursed the fig tree. He called the the Pharisees vipers, adulterous, adulterous generations you
hypocrite he called people, dogs and pigs. Jesus used these words in the New Testament. He called them dogs and pigs.
And you have an atrocity to come and use the same point against the prophet of Islam.
Please, Bernie, I love you. And I'll hug you later. Okay, to demonstrate my love, so please do not take my tone. in a negative way. I'm very passionate about my profit and my faith, and my passion is taking
hold of me but the same time, I have to show my love and compassion for the Christian community and they have this right. They deserve to know who our Prophet really is. They deserve to know
then about poison and certainty of end and all that I'm not going to indulge in that I'm going to quickly get on to the next point. So if prophet of Islam is a true prophet of God, if he's true, according to the Bible, why the Bible because the Christians believe in the Bible. Unfortunately, what the Christians do to Prophet Mohammed
Today what the Jews did to Jesus, when he came and preached to them and he said to them, I am the Messiah. The Jewish people rejected him. They made 101 excuses to reject him. No, you're not the Messiah. You're a sorcerer, you're a liar. You're a cheater. You're a magician, and they tried to kill him. And he was protected by God Almighty, as was discussed in the previous debate, book book of Psalm, Psalm 91, is a prophecy about Jesus Christ. And Bernie was wrong when he said it's not about Jesus Christ. All Christian scholars are in unanimous that the book of Matthew chapter four when the prophecy is used by the devil, he knows why he's using it because Jesus knows that this
prophecy refers to him, he will be saved. Psalm 91 confirms that. So we believe that Prophet Mohammed is a true prophet of God, not only according to the Quran, even according to the Bible, Bible tells us about an Arabian prophet. Firstly, in the time of Jesus, three prophets were expected three prophetic figures, three Messiah figures, the Messiah, the Christ, who was distinct to the Elijah or Elias, analyze was distinct to the prophet or that Prophet. So when people came to john the baptist, they asked him three questions in the Gospel of john, as you can see the reference to the screen, that are you that profit Are you alive? Are you the Christ, he denied all three charges?
Then, these are three distinct persons, Jesus confirmed that the Elias has, has already come, you did not recognize him, and I am the Christ. So who is that Prophet? When you go to the Bible and check the reference? When you check the reference? What is this referring to? It refers to Deuteronomy 1818, where Moses made a prophecy about a prophet like Moses will emerge. Okay, from the brethren of the Israelites, the brethren of the Israelites of the ishmaelites, the Arabs, the Arabs, and many Christian missionaries, they have an issue with that there's no brother means actually, there's really no, it means he termites are called the Brazilians of Israelites in the Old
Testament, the edomites are not Israelites, and they call the brethren of the Israelites for that by that virtue, the Arabs, the Israelites are the brothers of
the Israelites and a prophet will arise from the brothers of the Israelites, Deuteronomy 1818. Where is this prophet coming from? How was he like Moses, as you can see on the screen there, the likeliness of Moses and Mohammed, unlike Jesus, because a lot of the Christians claim that that Prophet was Jesus. But Jesus never claimed to be that property claimed to be the Christ. And there were three distinct persons As we can see, in this breakdown, three distinct persons that Prophet is still to come, is still expected by the Jewish people. And Jesus never claimed to be that. So who is that Prophet? When we go to these passages? For example, if you want to be 33, it mentioned three
locations that mentioned three locations. Number one is Sinai number two is sire number three is peran. Sinai is Egypt, Moses, sire is Palestine a mountain range in Palestine? That's Jesus? Where is Peron? Who is coming from Parana Puranas. Rabia, according to the Bible, again, the book of Isaiah chapter 21. Verse 13, clearly states that Hadar or Peron is Arabia, and Kadir was also in Arabia. And this is the diagram to explain to you clearly where Peron is. The remaining of my presentation will be given to you in my first rebuttal. Thank you so much for listening with Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.
I've got 10 minutes to respond to all of the issues. It's good to see some passion, isn't it? This is this is serious stuff. And and I'm happy for that. And at night, we're quite happy to disagree very strongly. And we will remain friends at the end of this, I hope.
First of all, I was disappointed but not surprised to see that I had not brought up a whole lot of things that weren't related to the topic. So I brought along my red herrings award.
All I could get was sardines from cars, but red herrings. So a couple of the things we're the New Testament is a poor source of Jesus. We're talking about Mohammed not about the New Testament,
the Bible on torture, we're talking about Muhammad, not about the Bible on torture, not about the Bible at all. Christians burning out alive, not related to the topic. It's a red herring.
Another one the wives of David and Solomon not related to the topic. It's this is about Muhammad. Another one he brought up Paul, I was waiting for this one not related to Mohammed or Paul and Mohammed never met each other. And the last one, Psalm 91, not related. This was a it's not a messianic Psalm. The only person who quoted as relating to Jesus was the devil. So a bad one to to line up with. So there's a couple of the red herrings that came up today and I'll pass those on to it.
And this will keep you in sardines for the next few weeks. Yeah.
Let's get to the real topics. The question he said use only authentic sources. And the one that he objected to was even his hack. But actually, I'm not sure that he believes that because I do have here a video clip of him talking about urbanists, how to a Muslim audience sometime to go have a listen to what he says. Who is the the main story we refer to for the life of the Prophet sallallahu Sallam? Anyone?
the biography of the Prophet sorry.
But who, who wrote the book of imitatia. Even a sham is an abridgment of an earlier work
in his heart, Mohammed bin his heart, who was born in the year 83, and died in 150 51. Muhammad is His heart. So we refer for the life of the peninsula, to make sense of it in a chronological way, to this history. So what I want to know is what new information about urbanest Hawk has come up in the last few years. That means it is now in authentic, because I'm quoting it, Muslim scholars quoted a tuber he quotes it, lots of other people do. And so
he talked about whether Muhammad had seen
a demon in the in the cave, and both even his heart and a Tabori, the authentic historian talk about
deja saying, rejoice, because by God, the thing that you've seen is an angel and not a Satan. So these were the terms that came up in in those early discussions. He talked about Mohammed promising paradise to others, but not himself. Well, he did. And I recognize that there were 10 people that he promised paradise to, but what do you do with these words of Muhammad? He also said, I don't know what's going to happen to me from the Quran. He also said no, Buhari, I don't know what Allah will do to me. From al Bukhari, I don't know if I will enter into paradise myself, these things. These were authentic sayings of Muhammad, we need to deal with them.
He said it was dangerous for me to criticize his view of Muhammad. But why was it not dangerous for you to criticize my view of Jesus on Friday night? What's going on here? We should have equality and that everybody should be equally free and equally open to express their views, even if other people don't find it comfortable. I sat there on Friday night, I heard him saying things about Jesus, that to me, were really quite offensive and wrong. And I didn't think that was dangerous for him at all. Why is it dangerous? For me? That's a big question.
He says that.
Muhammad pressed Ayesha, it says on the chest and she says, which caused me much pain. So this was seriously not just a little touch. This was a kind of an intimidatory kind of push on her chest that she experienced. He said that he thought that the Jews actually coped better under Islam. Not if you look at your history, the pact of Omar in 717 said Christians, Christians and Jews had to wear a yellow seam on their garments. in
Persia NATO seven they were ordered to wear a yellow belt in Granada in Islamic Spain, they had to wear a yellow badge. Hitler picked up the same kind of thing. This was something that continued on throughout history, the Jews did not do very well under Islamic rule. These details about the the pact of oma and all of the things that the Jews, Atari the Christians and Jews were not permitted to do. Were not permitted to teach the Quran to our children. We cannot manifest our religion publicly or convert anyone to it. We cannot prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it but people were not allowed to leave Islam and become Jews not allowed to leave Islam and become
Christians, which is still the case today. We were
not allowed to ride with settlers not allowed to carry any kinds of weapons. They had to travel around unprotected. But the Muslims were allowed to carry weapons. So it was not an easy life for them. Which is why Maimonides probably the the Jewish john Calvin or the
L Casali. He lived in Spain under Islamic rule. And he moved to Cairo because he would not adopt the Islamic faith. They gave him the choice you either convert to Islam or you
or you have to leave or we will execute you. And he said stated afterwards he said the nation of Israel that is the Jews, the Muslims, persecute us severely, and devise ways to harm us and debasis no nation has done more harm to Israel. None has matched it.
The more they choose,
the more we suffer and try to conciliate with them, the more they choose to act belligerently towards them. This was the
testimony of a famous Jew who lived under Islamic rule, it was not a positive experience. He mentioned about a prophet who will come, who will be like me. And this is the the verse in Deuteronomy 18, God will raise up a prophet among you, a prophet like me from among your, from among your brothers. And Muslim say, Well, this was a prophecy about Moses, and they give a couple of different reasons for it, they might use a scale like this one, if my thing here, say, I will look, there's some similarities between Moses and Muhammad. And, as an add nine use the similar kind of list to those things that they had done. But actually, the same list applies to Alexander the Great,
he did every one of those things as well, he had just as much claim. And the same with Napoleon, every, every one of those things, both Napoleon and Alexander and Muhammad did. So it's not unique. There's no reason why Muhammad should claim that it's for himself. But if we have a look at how this compares with Jesus, we can see Jesus and Moses had more things in common than they had with Muhammad. All of these areas, Mohammed was not able to tick a single box on them, Jesus and Moses agreed on on every one of them. And there's many more of these.
In john five, verse 46, Jesus referred that prophecy in Deuteronomy 18, to himself, he said, Moses spoke of me.
And he said, everything that is written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. Peter said, Jesus was a prophet like Moses saw Stephen referred to in Acts 17. In Acts seven, there's a consistent connection between the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18, and the ministry of Jesus. It's made through in different by different people within the New Testament. But why didn't Muhammad bow obey Moses law Moses said, Do not erect the Sacred Stone for the these the Lord your God hates. But what did Muhammad do with the black stone in Kaaba? Well, he was the one who had taken the stone and actually put it back into the car, but had been washed out in a flood. And
Muhammad was the one who is responsible for resubmitting it in there, even though God through Moses had said, do not worship black stones. So why didn't Mohammed do this? He continued to touch the Sacred Stone and kiss it and encourage people to do that. And if you go to if you're a Muslim, you can go to Mecca today, and you can do that. A prophet like Moses should would not do such a thing. He doesn't qualify to be called a prophet like Moses. And he mentioned about Paragon in Deuteronomy 33. The LORD came from Sinai and Dawn from SEO, he went forth to the Mount Paran he talks about three visits Sinai for Jesus say for Jesus out for sorry, Sinai for Moses, a for Jesus and Iranian
Arabia for Muhammad. But in fact, Quran and sia are near Egypt in the, in the Sinai Peninsula, they're not in the place where he marked them on that map. We know the location of them, they're not near Palestine, they're not near Mecca. It was the Lord Yahweh who was coming in this prophecy. It wasn't someone else. It says, When the Lord yawei comes, he will go to these, he would come with a myriad of saints, he would not come with 10,000 or 30,000 soldiers as as most as Muhammad did, but I will stop there. I've got a whole another Thank you.
Now you have dug a deeper hole for yourself.
A lot of mana Rahim. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you Bernie for another attempt to defend your position attacking the prophet of Islam.
again stated, I mean, I stated earlier and I state again, that you cannot trust misinformation in authentic information from sources who have claimed bias against a noble man who created one of the greatest civilizations in human history, and the doings and the achievements of the Muslim civilization is a completely different matter altogether. Even who the West what we know as the western civilization is in debt to the Muslim civilization heavily and books have been written on that topic. And if you have questions, you can read that question. red herrings.
Thank you for that. When you put them together, they look a lot, don't they? Right? But every single point I made about the Old Testament was directly linked to your attacks against the prophet of Islam. Everything you criticize the Prophet for it is in your scripture, and your scripture is good for learning, preaching and morality. If that's the case, On what basis when you believe
Leave that. And I'm sure you believe that and you cannot deny that. If that's the case, then On what basis? Do you attack the prophet of Islam for doing far less
severe things than what you find in the Old Testament. He was a ruler, he had to implement the law, he had to do things. Jesus, when he was walking around the temple, he was turning the tables over, he was cursing people, he was doing all these things. In fact, in the Gospel loop, we see a parable where Jesus said, Bring my enemies Heather, and slay them in front in front of me because they would rather not believe me. And the question would come back and say, No, that's a parable. But why is Jesus telling that parable is a question? What is the purpose of that parable? Jesus is the king, he's referring to himself. And when he returns, What will Jesus do? Can you tell us when you when
you come back? What will be the character of Jesus Christ when He returns? As he's foretold in the book of Revelation? What will he do? This is a very important question, chronology of events arc, he played my and I feel felt flattered. Thank you very much for working hard and watching my videos, watch more of them. And next time, we can have a better informed debate.
Even a sock, I only use them for a chronology I have stated a number of times in a public lecture that even a sock is not an authentic, authentic source on the life of the Prophet rather, it gives us a chronology. And that's the value of Ebenezer the biography of the Prophet can be found in those 34,000 reports, which Bernie failed to bring up. When he made all these lavish and hostile claims Bernie mentioned, the reason why I use the word dangerous is because Bernie used on heavily
politically loaded terms terror. He used the word terror, he used the word death squads. And these words ring in is every single day when we watch the new terror, terror terror, that's called that's called that's called Muslim that's called Muslim terrorists, even though most terrorists in the world are not Muslims, but that's what we hear on the news. And these are politically loaded terms, Bernie used that something that's dangerous. it inflates Islamophobia. It causes attacks like what happened in Christchurch. And believe you me, the Christchurch attacker was directly influenced by some Christian missionaries. I would not like to honor them by mentioning them. He was directly
influenced by some Christian missionaries in the West in the Western world, okay. And this, for some reason have an impunity to lie on Islam packed up Omar Bernie mentioned part of Omar pact of Omar again is an inauthentic information. There is not an authentic source of that pact rather, scholars who have studied it, such as Professor Thomas Arnold, if you want to actually go and look into this issue, Professor Thomas Thomas Arnold's book preaching of Islam, and there are other
scholars such as Mark Cohen, who was mentioned earlier, they have commented on pactor former, the pact of Homer in his current form is not even authentic, it cannot be traced back to the to the Prophet, let alone Omar himself. What we do have, however, authentically underrated, which Bernie failed to notice in the book of debris, which he keeps referring to, is the pact of armor in the book of debris, which is authentic, and it is the Treaty of Jerusalem between between the Christians of Jerusalem and Muslims. And, ladies and gentlemen, do me a favor when you go home, please check on these things. The Treaty of Jerusalem between Omar and patriarchs of fronius, the patriarch of the
city of Jerusalem, read that treaty. And tell me if it sounds anything like what Bernie read, there is a treaty between the prophet of Islam and the Christians of Madras Christians came to Medina, they had a discussion with the Prophet they refuse to believe in Him, what did the Prophet do disappear?
Take them into dungeons, torture them, no, go back to your lands, you may worship your God as you like, live in your churches, and you will not be attacked or you will not be cursed in religious matters, the Treaty of Nigeria and that can be found in the history of Imam belladati for the whole baudin the conquest of nations. And you can find the treaty, the exact text or treaty there and there's a lot more I can Islamic Spain, and my Modi's and what he quoted from Mumbai. Modi's was actually another misrepresentation, my Modi's escaped to Egypt. He's definitely right, Bernie's right. And I expect better from a PhD doctor, someone who has a PhD degree in comparative religion,
who should be teaching me because I don't have a PhD yet. Hopefully, I will do have. I will have one soon. He is supposed to know better, right? Okay. When he talks about my monitors running to Egypt, what happened in Egypt to my monitors, he was actually put on trial for apostle apostatized when Islam and who defended him, the Muslims came to rescue him is that he's not an apostate. He's a Jew. He's a Jewish man who never accepted Islam, so it should not be on trial. My monitor is was the personal physician of the salon.
Malik Abdo, Al Malik, Al, after the brother of salary in the famous salary in my monitors was his personal position. Now we come to the letter, the letter was written to the Yemeni Jews, to dissuade them from Islam because they were considering coming to Islam. And they sent certain Old Testament passages to my moderators for his commentary. What do you think of these passages? Some of them mentioned today, earlier, that these passages refer to an Arabian prophet. And we feel Mohammed was that Prophet. What do you feel my Modi's wrote to them completely misrepresenting the reality of his own existence? He was the physician to Phil town. And he's saying that we have been mistreated by
these people. How can you be the physician to ban Imagine if a Muslim came today, a living in Australia who has everything he has who has all the freedom he's going to school, his children go to school is he has free education, free, you know, free education and free medical treatment, and has a good job and living peacefully, nicely as Muslims do in Australia. Thankfully, if a Muslim was to stand up and say we have nothing here we are being mistreated. The Australians are racist Islamophobic the haters, the haters, what would you feel about that? You wouldn't? That would be a misrepresentation of the reality because I have seen with my own eyes, how Muslims live in
Australia. Muslims are very happy they are coexistent Australian people are amazing people. They are great people, they are loving people. So anyone to misrepresent the reality like that you should not quote them Bernie.
Alexander the Great Again, a misrepresentation of my argument. Alexander the Greek never claimed to be a prophet, Alexander the Great, and Napoleon Bonaparte. Both of them never claimed to be a prophet Muhammad did. And he referred back to the Old Testament. He said, I am actually mentioned the Quran Chapter Seven, verse 157, clearly states that you will they find Muhammad mentioned with them in the Scriptures, they find him mentioned with them in the scriptures. And when we opened the Old Testament, the book of Isaiah chapter 42, the entire chapter is telling us the coming of a Masonic figure, okay, who will have certain qualities and these are the qualities he will have? Look
at that on the screen, Isaiah 42, the entire chapter tells us about the coming of this Masonic figure, right? This is definitely not Jesus. And this is the Masonic prophecy. According to most biblical scholars, people like Doom, people like Christopher North who wrote a commentary on this particular part of the book of Isaiah, for the University of Oxford, he stated this the Masonic figure of Prophet king who will come in the future, he will have these qualities but there is something very unique about this prophecy. It mentions a location specifically
it mentions these qualities, he will bring a new law he will bring judgment, he will be a chosen one, he will put idol worshipers to shame he will come as a light for the Gentiles. Jesus said, I have not come to the Gentiles. I know Bernie will come back with the book of Matthew chapter 28, verse 19, where Jesus is taught to have said go into the nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the spirit. That passage is actually a later interpolate interpolation, according to some Christian scholars, like grant Stanton from the Cambridge University. Right? So if that's the case, that Jesus said, I have not come for anyone but to the lost sheep of the house of
Israel, then who is this prophet who's coming as a light for the Gentiles and qaisar? If you see verse number 11, Isaiah 42 k dar, is the second son of Ishmael, the direct ancestor of the Prophet of Islam, Prophet Mohammed, same Ebony sock, which was being quoted by Bernie so lavishly.
Also, conveniently, same Eben Isaak has a biography and a genealogy of Prophet Mohammed going back straight to clay dar gaydar, according to the book of Genesis chapter 25. Verse 13, was the second son of Ishmael. And if that's the case, this figure who is coming in the future with all these qualities, has something to do with gaydar and the word cellar. Were in Qaeda, Al Qaeda are the children of Israel, the Arabs, okay, where are where is this person coming from the mount Salah mount Salah is the mountain of Medina, it is a mountain in Medina, you don't believe me? Google it now right now. And you will see a Wikipedia page Salah is the mountain is a mountain in Medina. So
if these are the specific prophecies we have about the prophet of Islam and the Arabian Prophet, why do the Christians do to Muhammad? What the Jews did to Jesus Christ? Why do you reject him? Why do you reject Him and attack him in ways that cannot be sustained? When we look at the sources? There's a lot more I can say. But the final point I want to say is I love you, Bernie.
Thank you very much to both our speakers for a very spirited presentation. And thank you to all of you as well for submitting the many questions that are coming in fast and furious. Just to clarify again
We will prioritize the questions according to the topic who is Mohammed? The I know, there are a lot of questions that come in that relate to related topics but not directly and because of time we have to concentrate on
or prioritize according to this. So the first
grouping of questions is for Mr. Adnan.
A lot of you have come in about the topic of violence. And they have quoted various sutras in the Quran, surah, 959 29 533, and 867. All which they feel, talk a little bit about violence. So the question is, did Mohammed ever kill anyone personally, or ask that someone be killed? Or talk about violence against pagans and torture?
Thank you for that question. Very good question. There are plenty of verses in the Quran pertaining to war, war with enemy war with people who are planning to annihilate you. Most of Muhammad's wars salatu salam, most of his wars were defensive. He was attacked by his own tribe, the kurush. He was attacked by a coalition of the Jewish tribes in living in a settlement called hiber. And he was attacked by the Romans. And that's where the context come in comes in for 929. The Romans were threatening the Muslims. The Romans were planning to attack to launch an attack. We have references in sigle Bukhari Bukhari, the most authentic source of Islam after the Quran, and I will stand by
every single word in Bokhari, I accepted there are 7552 reports, bring torture from there, bring in justice from there, bring anything you want to, with context, do not put an unpleasant spin on it, quoted as it is, and contextualize it, I'm sure you have done a PhD, you have read the context. And for that reason, I invite you to read biographies of the Prophet written by, for example, Karen Armstrong, not a Muslim, read a biography written by Karen Armstrong, read a biography written by Martin Lynx, an English man who converted to Islam, and he wrote a biography of the Prophet read that, then if you want to see a traditional Muslim perspective, there's a book titled The sealed
nectar. These are the authentic sources of Islam read the biography of the Prophet, and they have collected authentic information. Now what a lot of Christian missionaries do, again, they pick up a lot of the a lot of this stuff from apocryphal, inauthentic, outright forgeries, and they tried to paint the prophet of Islam. And the purpose is to confuse the masses, you know, put so much hatred against the Prophet out there. So the Christian don't even consider reading about the Prophet. He's just a barbarian is a warlord someone who live in the past, and he committed atrocities, no need to read about him. Right? This is the image that's painted, but once you start to read about him, okay,
from authentic sources, you will see that the Mohammed you are being shown
by people out there, some people is not the same Muhammad you will read about in these biographies. So wars of the Prophet of Islam, were all for the defense of his community. And in some cases, it was pre emptive. It was pre emptive. Moses fought wars. Right? David fought wars, Solomon, the Israelite prophets. What were they doing? If again, two point it's not a red herring? It's directly relevant. If you believe in the Old Testament, and its sanctity. And if you believe it's morally upright, and it's good for teaching and correction, then you cannot, you cannot, you cannot use the same criticism for the prophet of Islam for doing the same things, or to a lesser extent, by the
way, because in the Old Testament, we have massacres of children,
animals, the prophet of Islam, never ever in his entire history commanded that, in fact, in the book of Bukhari, in the book of war, we read a statement, the Prophet came across a dead body of a woman in the battlefield. He said, Never do not kill women and children, even in conflict do not do not only those who are fighting you, only those and that's what the Quran says in chapter two, verse 190 190 192, read these verses, and you will see the context. Thank you so much for listening.
The very early one, the Battle of butter was because Muhammad said off with 315 men to attack, a caravan that was traveling from Damascus, down to Mecca, it was guarded by 40 men so Muhammad went undetected with his 300 men. There was a was basically highway robbery, they were trying to steal all the stuff that was from there. And then the Meccans heard about this and they sent 1000 men to
Fight against Muhammad. So to say that they're all defensive is not correct. The Romans never threatened Muhammad, they, they weren't concerned about him. Muhammad was a guy in the desert. The Romans had all their own problems. They were fighting against the Persians, the Arabs were irrelevant. And that was because Muhammad actually attacked them with an army of 30,000 men. It was an offensive attack. The Romans were, we're not threatening them at all. Anyway, they weren't concerned about them. He mentioned about women not being
not being threatened there. And it's true women were killed. And I've run out of time. Yeah, but Muhammad didn't always speak negatively against that. So this next question is for Bernie, did the Bible mention Islam and all Muhammad? And related to that, who was then the person mentioned, as the Prophet coming out of Canada?
The Muslims claim that there are many prophecies about Muhammad in the Koran, sorry, in the Bible that they list about 20 of them and have gone through in fact, I did a debate here on this topic a couple of years ago, talking about whether Muhammad was prophesied in the Bible. We up there. Yeah. Good. So this was the most common one that that's referred to, and I've mentioned about that before, that doesn't fulfill there because Mohammed didn't obey Moses law. They also talk about the Song of Solomon, this one in Syrah, sorry, in chapter 516, where it says his mouth is sweetness. He is altogether lovely. And they pointed out that this word altogether lovely in Hebrew, is Matthew
Modine. And they say this is the name of Muhammad. Well, if you look at the rest of the references of Matthew Modine in, in the Bible, you see it doesn't it doesn't reply to Muhammad, it says, God says in Hosea, even if they bear children, I will just I will slay the Muhammad's, or the mahamudu. I'm about to take one of your Muhammad's don't do not do not limit. The Mecca, Medina, God has slain all the mohammedans or the Muhammad who were pleasing to the eye. God says that stronghold which you take pride in the your Muhammad, the object of your affection, I'm going to desecrate them. If we look at the word in every other context, it's clear, it does not refer to a person. It refers to the
things that the people were pleased with. And so it's a misuse of that passage. But I often hear people using that. Was there a second part to the question?
Oh, who was the person coming out of Kedah? Yes, I mentioned. Yeah. Okay. So if you look at that passage in,
in Isaiah 42, it says, All the tents of Qaeda will praise Him. We actually saw that happening on the day of Pentecost, when there were Arabs present there at the when the gospel was first preached to the people of Jerusalem, and they started responding to it and we seen the Arabs continuing to turn to Jesus.
I did not mention the prophecy in the Song of Solomon 15 chapter 15 Muhammad, so that was a red herring.
Okay, what I want Bernie to talk about is k dar and the amount of seller Qaeda is Arabia. It is clear no biblical scholar ever disputed that it says let the villages of Qaeda lift up the voice. What Bernie the spin Bernie put on it that Pentecost the Arabs are rejoicing. No, it says let the villages of Kadir
rejoice let them lift up the voices let them sing a new song. The people who live by mount Sela, this is this. I mean, the sellout the word sell, as Kelly mentioned that this is Medina. And this is a clearly Arabia with the Arabs actually dwelling where they live. So something is happening in Arabia with regards to that prophecy. Other things mentioned by Bernie bother the Battle of other again, you're a PhD doctor and you you are really embarrassing me when you mentioned these things in this way. The Battle of butter was the response to the aggression of the Americans when they took the shots of abubaker in Mecca. And they were reading some of the the cattle of the Muslims. So the
prophet of Islam, he wanted to respond to this aggression of the Meccans. So even the Battle of brother, if you actually study the early history of it, how it happened, you will see that it was a response to the meccan aggression. Again, see Lecter has the details. Thank you
for both our speakers and I guess we can allocate them both three minutes each, and they can decide, hopefully in a friendly manner who will go first. So the question is, was Mohammed sinless, if he was not sinless, then can one be certain of salvation and of God's forgiveness just from doing good deeds?
And praise. What does Jesus or Mohammed offer that the other prophet does not?
Okay, thank you for that question was Mohammed sinless. It depends how you define sin. If you mean by sinning major sins for example, lying, cheating, deceiving right? Now Mohammed was absolutely sinless in that case. Okay? If you're talking about human errors, of course, all prophets, all prophets were prone to make human errors. Jesus did that Jesus who was supposed to be God walking on Earth, okay. He is absolutely doing things that are not very pleasant, for example, cursing the tree, right, or cursing the Pharisees. He, he was supposed to demonstrate better manners, right? If he's God in flesh walking on Earth, he was supposed to demonstrate better manners, but the New
Testament tells us that he was speaking in very unpleasant language to those who did not like for example, when a Gentile woman comes to him, he says, it is not for us to give the crumbs that belong to the story. Give the bread that belongs to the Israelites to dogs, okay, refer to the Gentiles, referring to Gentiles, non Jewish people. So you In other words, and don't get me wrong, ladies and gentlemen, this is what the New Testament states and you can make make of it what you like, okay, you are Gentiles. You are all Gentiles. Jesus never came for you. He clearly stated that I have never I have no I have not come for anyone but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The book of
Matthew chapter, chapter 15, verse 24, Jesus categorically stated, I have come for no one. But in fact, he told his disciples go you're not into the house of the Gentiles, rather, go to the house of the Israelites because that's, that's what that's whom I'm come for those of the people have come for. So Prophet Muhammad was sinless in the sense I mentioned, but he made human errors like other prophets, and he was corrected many times in the Quran. And this is how we know the Quran is the word of God, because the Quran corrected him many times, many times the Koran put him right. So this is what the revelation is supposed to be doing. Right? Revelation is from God, it is not from the
Prophet. Right. So coming back to the issue of him being foretold in the Old Testament, and him being sinless, for example, he was
told categorically, by God, that you will be in paradise. When Bernie keeps mentioning this, I don't know what's going to happen to me. This was his humility, just like Jesus, when he was asked
about the hour, or when he said, Father is greater than I, okay. And all other things with which the Christians claim that was human Jesus speaking, the humble Jesus speaking, he was being humble. This was his humility when he said, Father is greater than I, right. This is how the prophets speak. They speak in a humble language, they don't inflate the ego, rather, they humble themselves before God. So it was him speaking that shall I not be thankful for heaven to God, his wife, when she when she saw him pray at night, and his feet were swollen? He said to him, O Messenger of Allah, you are forgiven, you will be in paradise. Why do you pray like this? Why do you have to pay like this? And
this is in Bukhari, by the way, this is Bokhari, authentic, authentic source, right? And the Prophet says, shall I not be a thankful servant of God? So if this was an imposter, an actor, a liar, a deceiver? Why would he pray at night, in his chamber alone, all night, until his feet were swollen. This is a true prophet of God, who is doing in private, what he does in public. In fact, he was doing more worship in private testified to by his wives is, who knows you more? Believe me, your wives know you more than anyone else? They know, they know, when you sneeze, when you eat. And I'm not going to go into the details.
All right. The question was, was the prophets was a Muhammad sinless? And I've said clearly that I believe that he was because he said he was and I gave the details for that. And you can see the, the pamphlet that we've got two of them on one, one on Muhammad, sins in the Quran, another one on Muhammad sins in the in the Hadeeth. Can you be certain of salvation by good works, Mohammed said, no one will be saved by their good works. And they said, not even you. He said, not even me. And I think that's really important. And Jesus, that this teaching of the Scripture is very clear. salvation by good works is not not
a way forward at all. What is Jesus or Muhammad offered that the other one does not? Jesus offers the way of salvation. He died on a cross for
The sins of the world. Muhammad when he died, he died for his own sins, just like every one of us will, we will all die because of our sins. Muhammad. Jesus died for the sins of others because he had no sins to to die for. I just want to respond to two issues that
a dad has brought up.
One and I'll probably get some extra time because he spoke over long, didn't he? Yeah.
this one he talked about cursing the fig tree and I think it's an important one. Muslims will often say, Well, why did Jesus cursed the fig tree? It was not it was a bad thing. The cursing of the fig tree was an act of prophetic symbolism. The Old Testament prophets all carried out these actions. The fig tree was a symbol of Israel. And he said to the toward the prefigure this was the parable, he talked about a man who had a fig tree, and he went and he didn't find any fruit on it, he gave it more time to produce fruit. And it did. And he said, If it doesn't, we're going to cut it down. And so that the temple that Jesus was going to was like the fig tree, it was lacking good fruit. It
looked like it was flourishing and had lots of leaves, but it was doomed. Its time was up. And Jesus says Israel's time has passed, they've had the opportunity to respond to me as the as the Messiah, but now the new covenant is coming in. So I think it's important to understand and Adnan rightly mentioned that we need to think about these things in their context. The second one was about Jesus and the Jews. Did Jesus come for the Jews only? Again, the Jews were his initial focus. And we talked about that in Matthew 10, Matthew 15. And that question about the the woman, the Canaanite woman who comes to Jesus, Jesus did actually minister to this woman, and he healed her daughter, and
he commended her face to say he had nothing to do with Gentiles is not correct. We see him many times ministering to non Jews. He said out the 70 he dealt with the Samaritan woman who had non referred for to the other day, he healed a Samaritan leopard, leopard, he casts people demons out of the demand from guidara. He healed the Roman Centurions. servants, the Rome century and seven, he said, I haven't found anyone with such faith, as this century, Jesus had lots of dealings with century with, with non Jews, and his teaching included all nations, he said, My house will be a house of prayer for all nations. When I'm lifted up, I'll draw people to myself, I am the light of
the world. Jesus was not specifically or only focused on the Jews, he talked about the gospel being proclaimed to the whole world, being preached to the whole world as a witness. And he said to his, his followers, go and make disciples of all nations, not just of the Jews, he said, you will be my witnesses to the ends of the earth. And us today are just a testament to witness to that. When Jesus died, he died for the sins of the whole world. JOHN said, this is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. God didn't send His Son into the world to condemn it, but to save the world through it, this, the Samaritan woman said, This man is the Savior of the world. He said, My flesh
is given for the life of the world, I didn't come to judge the world, but to save the world. And Jesus has authority over all nations. He said, I have other sheep that are not of this fault, I must bring them also, he caught is referred to as the true light who gives light to everyone. It says, the field is the world, this gospel will be preached to all nations, all nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds, and to Him will be gathered all nations. So that promise in
x in X, on the day of Pentecost, we see the beginning of that, and the rest of the Bible and the rest of history is a testimony to that, that Jesus is the one who brings salvation to every nation. Thank you.
This next grouping of questions, I think, is
quite a number of you have texted in. So I think it's important to cover it for both speakers again, basically relating to what are the authentic and reliable sources, if Bernie's ones were not appropriate, and also, a couple of people have quoted Hamza Yusuf, who have said that all these are true and acceptable. So why, if Bernie has quoted some of them that they will not acceptable? And also I think it would be good if both speakers could tell us from this question as well that putting Quran Hadith and Bible aside, are there any positive authentic books from authors of opposite faith that either of you would recommend to the audience today to continue our research on this important
Thank you for that.
I thought the topic was Hammad a Muslim, Christian and Muslim perspective. And Bernie did some preaching
near the end of his
last remark, but anyway,
so the sources, the sources of Muslims are the Quran number one primarily. And then how do you understand the Quran, you understand the Quran in the light of the prophetic tradition, which is called Hadees. And we have six main books of Hadith. And they are called al Bukhari number one, number two, call Muslim. Number three is undecided. And then we have without, and we have a pharmacy, and then we have
these six sources. Six collections of reports, from the prophet of Islam or about him are the main sources of information are authentic information for us, the Muslims, and even in them. There are certain reports that are doubtful, but they are known to Muslim scholars because our system works very differently to what the Christians have the Gospels work differently, the Muslim tradition, the bodies of science, the science of Hadith is a vast topic. And in order to study it, you will have to go back to scholarly books and see how it works. It is a very powerful tradition well preserved, and we know what is authentic. We do not attribute any false information to any prophet of Islam. And we
believe all the prophets were actually essentially preaching Islam. Islam is submission to God Almighty, this is why Jesus came. This is why Moses came, this is not God. Moses is not God, Mohammed does not God, all of them were brothers in one faith. So
this is all I had to say about that question. The sources are very important and the books I want to recommend very quickly again, Martin links, his biography of the Prophet of Islam, then seals nectar is translated into the English language, you can find it, then we have Karen Armstrong's. If you want a non Muslims perspective on Prophet Mohammed, Karen Armstrong, he has written a biography of the Prophet of Islam, Prophet Muhammad. And there are many other words you can read, but look at objective scholars who have written books on these people, right? If you will read from biased Christian missionaries, you will not get the truth. Likewise, if you want to read about Jesus
Christ, don't read the book, a book written by a Muslim Imam from a former mosque. I'm not saying he's going to be biased. I'm being very consistent, because it is but natural for them to be biased, right? Read scholarly works, you want to read about Jesus Giza? vermis. Giza vermis, who is Jewish? No doubt I mentioned him earlier, he has written a couple of books on Jesus Christ, right. Then there are there is there is epi Sanders, there is a scholar called EBC besonders, James dg done another Christian scholar, who has written extensively on the life of Jesus Christ, and go and see what is authentic and what is not the Gospels. Unfortunately, do not stand the test of time, or the
test of history, there are many inconsistencies in there, there is much in there that cannot be taken as history. So my time is up. Thank you so much. And if you have any more questions about sources, do consult me later after the debate. Thank you.
I thought the question was authentic and reliable sources for Islam. Was that right? Yeah. All right. So red herring, sorry. He started talking about the gospel sources in James, Dan and EP Sanders and whatever, liberal scholars By the way, who most Muslims would not accept, or most Christians would not accept. And nor would most Muslims if we applied the same kind of categorization to Islamic sources. And I'm interested that at Nance said, He's quite happy for us to use Ebony's Hark, as a chronology, but not the content. How do you actually
pull those apart? How do you say, Oh, well, these things happened in this order. But then we don't believe that they actually happened in the way that he described them. It doesn't quite come together, you've either got to have full confidence in a historian who's writing about things and you think this person has done their research. They know that the things happened in this order. And they know what happened in those events, to say, Oh, well, we'll accept the order. But we're not going to accept the events doesn't quite fit together. Logically, you need to be more consistent than that. either reject the whole lot, which you obviously haven't done, because you've said, you
know, this is the place where we get out you're telling your students this is the place where we get our information, our chronology from but or accepted. Yeah, but you can't just I will take these little bits and we'll reject the bits that weird, we're not offensive we are happy with. The other thing is that even his heart is widely quoted by others. So Tabori, for example, relied on his heart
There was a fair bit of
kind of competition amongst the early writers about Islam. They weren't happy with each other. If you see people like
Abu huraira, for example, you know, they called him the guinea pig that came down from the mountains, because they didn't like him. But he was the one who's actually after Ayesha, the second most important source for Al Bukhari. So there was a bit of competition amongst them people didn't like they didn't love each other, like Adnan and I do they all hated each other.
Yeah, in terms of positive, authentic books written by the other side. He mentioned Karen Armstrong, I've got my severe doubts about Karen and Karen Armstrong as a
as a historian, she's been banned in in countries like Malaysia, they weren't allowed her books to be sold there. Yet, so she's, yes, there's some some difficulties there. There is a book I was just trying to chase it down called one day in Jerusalem, which talks about a man who wrote about the crucifixion from an Islamic perspective. And he takes it quite seriously that Jesus was in conflict with the the Jewish leaders, and recognize as he sees readies history recognizes that there were going to be some difficulties between them. And so at the end of it, Jesus is being taken towards the cross. And I think, if we look at history, we see and I showed on Friday night that these events
were all historically determined. And we can see lots of Jewish, Roman, Greek and Syrian scholars who will talk about the crucifixion as an historical event.
But now we come to the end, where each speaker will have two minutes to give their final summation. And we will follow the same order with Bernie first followed by a man.
Well, today, we've had a good opportunity to look at the life of Muhammad, the topic it was, who was Muhammad, and we saw that he had his strengths and his failings, every person has their good points in their bad points, we, we should be clear about that. But what's unique about Muhammad was the claim and the claim of his followers, that he is the best person who has ever lived, that He's the perfect model for humanity, that he's the final prophet of God. And I've shown you why I rejected all of these, we saw that Mohammed suffered from some serious shortcomings in the ways that he carried out war, for example, his treatment of women and children, and the disabled treatment of his
enemies. And we saw that this disqualified him as an intercessor, on the day of judgment, he had no certainty that he would enter Paradise. He said his good works would not save him, and he could not save anyone else. So he's, in a sense, in the same boat, as every one of us on the Day of Judgment, he will be standing there with the rest of us, he can't help us, and he can't harm us. So where does that leave us? We shouldn't finish with an imperfect model. And the one that I'm recommending to you, not surprisingly, is Jesus, the one who is the perfect model. He's the one who came, lived in the flesh. And I'm off the topic here. But you know where I stand. Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for being an amazing audience. I enjoyed the debate today, there was passion. There was
there was a lot of criticism of each other, and we took it on our cheeks. Sorry, Chin's brother, okay.
And I'm really pleased to be in Australia. It's an amazing country. I love Australia already. And we must continue in the spirit. Today, we have again shown the world that Christians and Muslims can disagree immensely with each other, on matters of faith, and then,
despite all that, come together as brothers and sisters in humanity and share their love with each other, and have no hard feelings and go home. Thinking about what was discussed tonight. So please go home tonight. think hard about it. What I had to say what Bernie had to say. Bernie is trying his best to do his job, what he does, what I'm doing what I do, okay? But always, always give a sympathetic hearing to the other side. Never, ever trust. I'm talking to Muslims as well. Never ever. Take your own Imams and teachers as the final source. Go to the Christians, talk to them, ask them why they believe in what they believe in and have sympathy for the Christians. Likewise, I want
the Christians to go and read our sources sympathetically go to the authentic sources. There are 34,000 reports in the six books I mentioned. There's plenty there, the prophet of Islam Who was he? He was a merciful man, we see an immensely merciful man. The Prophet said the best of you who are best to your wives.
And paradise lays under the feet of Bernie kept mentioning women women women. Of course, rhetoric is very powerful in a debate but the reality is proper mama taught. Paradise is under the feet of your mothers.
Your women are a trust of God and your hands. Be kind, even the Quran chapter four verse 19 states why Sharona will maroof live with them with generosity and compassion.
And some people have an audacity to come and say the Prophet Muhammad had all these unpleasant The same goes for war and other accusations against him believe me you want to study the man study from authentic sources of Islam and you will see a completely different compassionate, generous, loving, upright moral man Walker Davina and Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil aalameen Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen.
Once again, I echo Mr. anon, Rashid's words you have been an amazing audience. Thank you for your patience for your participation. And I am sure you have all enjoyed yourself listening to these two World Class debaters. Please join me in thanking Dr. Bernie power and Mr. Adnan Rashid.