Islamic Finance Q&A
Channel: Yasir Qadhi
Series: Yasir Qadhi - Ask Shaykh YQ
File Size: 34.50MB
Episode Transcript ©
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Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam ala Rasulillah Ali, he was a happy woman who Allah Hamad Al Hamdulillah. We're very honored and pleased to have a colleague, a friend and mentor of mine, somebody who have known 15 years or at least six plus, plus
for quite a while that hamdulillah and I have benefited from immensely from his lectures and we meet almost annually at the annual conference and he is one of the members and the Executive Committee of the American Muslim jurists Association. But a more formal introduction. Dr. Mann al cola is an experienced Lecturer in Islamic Studies, in his teaching career here has provided an instruction and training to many hundreds and 1000s of students and even scholars across the world, and he has served as an imam of several Islamic centers throughout the United States. Additionally, he is certified as a half of the whole Quran with an ijazah to teach unto others. He obtained his PhD in
2004 in science and technology of economics in Islam from the American Open University, and before that, he received his master's in Islamic Studies from Yarmouk University in Jordan and his Bachelor's in economics from an Azad University Islamic economics from the University in Elkhart, Hira and he has. He is currently the assistant professor of Islamic Studies in the American Open University and an imam of mass KT Center in Houston, Texas, and he is the acting academic dean at the American Islamic University and a research assistant in Yarmouk University. The main courses that our chef teaches at the University deal with Islamic fit, and especially Islamic economics. And
it is a speciality that he has written a number of papers about and he has given a number of photos as well, in the American Muslim jurists Association. I'm Jeff, and he is well known for preaching and teaching and lecturing about Islamic finance. So we welcome him to our community. This is your first time here correct? Second time, the second time where was I when you came the first time thanks two years ago, three years ago before I was not here that I missed out on so my by this is your second time at Epic and inshallah it will be the second of many, many more times at Hamlet. Thank you for so chef Anna, we will get directly to the point everybody is very interested in
Islamic finance. But I'm going to ask a very technical question. My first question to you sheriff. Anna, can you please define what is from our perspective Riba? And why is it about so problematic? So what is the technical definition of Riba? And why is it so problematic? According to our Sharia 900 out of blood, I mean, almost nobody was selling more Vatika Muhammad Ali, he was obvious main lamona were over Nebula was a in a flap and I will help with the vein and Avena Coleman I will have to antiviral fats from our nadat. When it comes to Reba, we have different categories. If Reba if you go to any classical book, you will read about triple fatherland ribbon NASA and ribbon sia and
the Reebok pom and ribbon code. To be honest with you, it's very confusing for the regular common reader because the vast majority of those definitions and practical examples captured on those facts books do not exist nowadays. You read for example, exchanging wheat for barley or date foods for data fruit, right? Those examples are absolutely correct, but they are very, very relevant to our society. And this is actually where the confusion is coming from for an average Muslim American who lives in this society wants to like you know, conduct transactions according to the Sharia, without being involved in riba let me just answer the question, the rebar that that we are referring to in
the American society is the most severe level of river, which is something prohibited according to all my their head all the time, which is a big deal, it says it is the is the premium or premium, that has to be paid by the borrower to the lender, along with the principal amount, either as a condition for the loan or for the extension of its maturity. Very, very simple example, you go to Bank of America or to chase and you apply for $100,000 Personal Loan or investment loan or student loan, whatever, you know, from day one that this is a loan, and you have to pay it back plus a certain amount, right? Could it be APR, it could be a lump sum, it could be flat feet, what I mean
whatever the formula they use might be. So we have we have a principal amount and we have surplus, or premium on top of the amount
Why it is problematic from a Sharia perspective? When I mean, this is a very good question. You take a loan from the bank, for example, and the bank charges you let's say 3% or 5% interest, you take that money, you indulge it in a business, you make a profit 10 15%, right? You will pay the principal, you will pay the interest and you keep the rest for yourself. If everybody is happy, if it is a win win situation, then why Allah subhanaw taala is still prohibiting Riba? It's a very good question. Well, the example that I just mentioned, is just one example of different examples that do happen in the real life. Sometimes you make believe it or not, you're here. So you make not 100%
profit, you make 10,000% profit, it does happen in real life, and I'm responsible for what I say, right? It's absolutely unfair to give the bank only three or four or 5% APR or interest and you keep the rest of the profits for yourself. It did happen especially the last year in March 2020 Just a few days before the pandemic started you know, hurting the economy in the USA, that that you are unable to make profit for sure, because the whole economy actually got frozen, you are unable even to maintain your your principal, right, you lost the principal, the principal amount, you know, the amount that you took the loan that you took from the bank has been lost because of the economy and
by the law of the land, the bank is still actually can go after you and ask for the principal amount and ask for the interest on top of it. So, in both cases, there is a lot of injustice
happen in the real life, sometimes real exploitation, when the bank is not taking any risk whatsoever. Okay, the bank actually is shifting just putting the risk in your shoulder, here is the loan you do whatever you want, okay, you will make a profit you are your, your break even you incur loss, we do not care about you here is $100,000 you bring it back next year 150,000. After two years 106,000 This is absolutely unfair because the bank is not taking any liability or responsibility or risk, if you wish with the other party. And this is this is why Islam actually is a strictly standing against riba because of the injustice actually implemented in the Islamic finance system.
If you go to Islamic Chase Bank or Islamic Bank of America, for example, and you apply for a loan, they would say, Well, we do not have money for you. We do not we don't give you a loan here, you are in the wrong place. If you want to finance for your business, let's sit down and talk business. Right you want to build a house there are something called Moraga or Masaryk or Ijarah you want to construct a building there is something called a Cessna.
You want some cash money to upgrade your business there's something called Mudaraba. So, we sit down together and we discussed business and we go with the model technically called risk sharing model versus the risk shifting model right the prevailing economic finance system is going with with with the shift with the with the risk shifting model, you take the money you are by your own within us care about you, okay, the Islamic finance goes with the risk sharing model, we are partners, if there is any profit, everybody enjoys the profit, if there is any loss acid everybody will be will be losing. So you see the huge difference between the injustice implemented and happen in real life
when you go with the traditional system versus the justice and the fairness that Allah subhanaw taala actually is calling for through the prohibition of riba. So chef it is can we say therefore, that even though the general rule is that any transaction the two parties agree to is halal if it is done by mutual consultation? Allah azza wa jal has made a specific mutual consultation haram even if they both agree, and that is Riba. And that is because the Riba by its nature is exploitative, can we say something like this? That's absolutely correct. We have a lot of flexibility when it comes to conducting business and partnership, transaction between people, we have a lot of flexibility. Go
ahead and do whatever you want. As long as you are staying away from riba as long as it is proven that no one is advancing money to somebody else. And that's a principle and it's retail or guaranteed, right? This is actually the most fundamental component that we have to take into consideration. As you know,
there is a lot of that has to be avoided. There's uncertainty that has to be avoided, but the most like the most prohibited and the most important matter that we have to pay attention to, is to stay away from riba which is which is a kind of exploitation and social can we also then define the Riba or at least the type that we are most interested in is every loan
That guarantees some type of benefit upon the lender is a type of Riba. colocado, camelphat and fortiva. Yeah, every every loan brings a stipulated benefit to the to the lender, not to the borrower, the lender. Yeah, yeah, the lender will be counted as, as Riba. When we say stipulated benefit, it is with the understanding that the lender actually is not taking any risk. Yes, or of its own business. Exactly. Absolutely. It is a loan loan means that you are by by your own, take the money, do whatever you want, I don't care about to come back after one year you pay me the principal and the interest and I can go after you by the law of the land, because that is the agreement
between you and I, that is that is the Rebbe jolla photography. So chef, can you give us some examples of riba based transactions here in America, and however much time you want to spend, everybody always asks about the issue of mortgages? So can you summarize your position about mortgages in this? So examples of Riba and what do you think of the reality of the mortgage situation?
In America once once we comprehend the definition of free will, the challenge that we are facing here actually, is to implement that definition? And to figure out whether a certain transaction does involve riba or not right, this is the challenge that we are facing here. I'll give you an example. What is the difference between me offering us Yes, or $5,000? Loan? Right. And I asked you that you have to pay me the 5000 5500 within one year, that's a straightforward interest bearing Well, am I correct? Correct. Okay, what if I have decided to go to Bank of America, and I opened a savings account, and based on the agreement that $5,000 has to be paid back to me 5500 Within one year,
what's the difference between this scenario and the other scenario?
Technically speaking, there is no difference. no difference whatsoever. This actually means that opening a savings account is an interest bearing loan, believe it or not, it's not introduced to you as an anticipating loan. But that is the nature of the agreement, right? You will give your money to Bank of America, your principal is guaranteed your return on their investment, which is deliver as guaranteed by the FDIC, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. That's actually the very confusing part, that the vast majority of those transactions that we are getting involved in are not introduced to us as Rieber as the extra plus a three by that we know they are like you know
introduced to you otherwise. And your job as a practicing Muslim is to investigate and to unlock the secret of the agreement and find out again, if someone is giving money, and that's money, the principal amount and its return both are guaranteed, that is delivered that Allah subhanaw taala prohibited whether it is called Riba in the real life or it is called otherwise we do not care. And this actually brings to our attention shift the world known the fifth Maxim by the mafia Alebrije to follow a coup Dilma Casa de Waal, Mani lallande al folly, Wilma, Benny, what matters and transactions is the essence and reality not the warding or the formality. So, even if the if the
charge that you are charging others or you are charged by others is introduced you as otherwise, right, if it is if it is a premium that has to be paid on top of the principle, that is the Riba that Allah subhanaw taala prohibited and based on that, based on that, opening a savings account, the default rule of opening a savings account is that it is not an option because it is a straight forward interest bearing loan. Give another example, on the deed life,
you have only $500 in your in your debit card, your checking account, and you stopped by any point of sale and you made a transaction of $700.
Usually it goes through Usually it goes through. Okay, in the bank statement next month, you will see that you have to pay back $200 And on top of that there is $35 overdraft charge, it's not the river No, this overdraft charge. Now your job is to interpret or to unlock the secret of what happened. When you when you do a transaction of $700 It means that you have taken $200 from the bank, Mike Correct. Is it like a gift for you? Sure. So why did you look as we say an RV? No, it is not right. So you have to pay back the $200 If this is the only thing you need to pay back, then we get to go I mean, what is the concern you borrow 200 You pay it back 200 The problem here is that
you pay on top of it. $35 just giving random numbers, right. That number is introduced to you and
As overdraft charge, well, you borrow 200 and you paid it back or you have to pay it back. $235 You see, well, that overdraft charge by default by default is the river that Allah subhanaw taala prohibited. Now, you can maybe prove otherwise, I mean, there might be some justification that there is some logistical work and paperwork has to be done like to, you know, get that to 100. That is very possible. But the default rule is that you pay on top of the principle that you have borrowed, that is the river that Allah subhanaw taala. prohibited. So exactly, I say can go on on maybe, you know, you can see the pattern, you know, Chef, let's be literally give you the opposite example. How
about the cashback?
cashback the Discover card is where you go, you have a credit card, right? And you use it for $100. You get $5. Cash Back, a lot of people actually say is the cash back River? Well, before you jump to a conclusion, you need to again, unlock the secret of what's happened. What does it mean for you to use your credit card for purchasing it means that you are borrowing money from the credit company? Am I correct? So you borrow 100 $100? Okay, and you benefit from the $5. Right? So you borrow 100, and you pay it back? How much 9595? No, $95 Because Because the cash back is $5. So 100 100 minus five, that's 95. So you borrow 100, and you pay it back less. Now, this is absolutely the opposite
of freewill. We just said colocado, Jarana, fanden mchardy for Horiba every loan that brings a stipulated benefit to the lender, well, who is benefiting here, the lender or the borrower, the borrower, the borrower. So the cash back actually is valid. And as always say that if you have any problem with the cash back, give it to me, I mean, I'll do sell more than happy. Some people are happy at that.
Alhamdulillah but yeah, we didn't answer the issue. Sure. Hajra and Laura and mortgages I mean, palazzetto I know this is very detailed. But if you can just summarize your anomalous position, or yeah, we'll we'll discuss it actually in details tomorrow shall on our seminar that's between Laura NASA from 215 to 515. Inshallah, we will be having salad and we're lucky enough to discuss it. But to
briefly briefly, what does it mean to mortgage your house? Again, you have to unlock the secrets of the transaction before you jump to a conclusion. When you mortgage your house, you get involved in three different transactions simultaneously, there is a sale agreement where you as a customer, okay, buy a house from the landlord. And there is a loan agreement because of course, you do not have half a million dollars or paid cash for the house. So you apply for a loan from the mortgage company, that's a loan agreement, right? And there is a mortgage agreement where the mortgage company actually puts a lien on the property to secure their money. So three different transactions
are going simultaneously. Sale actually is halal mortgage according to the definition of the Quran, and Tamara suffer and voluntary ducats even ferry handle Macola like it is the right of that is absolutely the right of the lender to mortgage the property of the borrower to secure its money. So mortgage agreement is fine. Sale Agreement is fine. loan agreement is not fine. Because I mean, you borrow half a million dollars, you pay it back six or seven or even $800,000. Within 30 years, some people get confused. They see like the name of Bank of America on the deed of trust, thinking that oh, the bank is owning the house No, wrong us. The bank actually is the lien holder of the property,
not the owner of the property. So the bank is not owning the property bank is just putting a lien on the property to secure to secure his fund. So we ended up having three different transactions. Two of them are halal. And one of them is haram. If you want to be like a very American democratic guy, you go with the majority, right two against one, some are just huddled Here you go well in their stomach finance system, it goes the other way around. Right? If it is proven that one deal is haram within that package or combination of three different transactions, then the whole deal actually is ruined. The whole deal actually is not, you know is not valid based on that. The default rule of
mortgaging a house in the United States according to the traditional way, is not a halal option for Muslims. Now, the chef is asking about Amgen position we do have some some attempts, okay by different Islamic mortgage companies who try to offer an Islamic alternative. There are not in the same level of seriousness and diligence and applying genuine and sound Islamic mortgage options. If you go to our website I'm on
Lonnie, just just Google it MJ MJ
systemic mortgage companies, you will see a very long detailed declaration showing those five different major I would say stomach mortgage companies, and the status of each one of them. Inshallah so tomorrow you have a longer discussion on this citizenship JCF
let me play not devil's advocate because we don't do civilizer But let me pay play, what do you call them? Angels? Let me just play them what material the the person who's coming with the other opinion, as you are aware here. So now there are a number of academics and even scholars, they are not mainstream, but that's simply because mainstream doesn't accept them as being mainstream, but they are rude AMA. And there are academics who are arguing that Riba and the rulings of riba have to be rethought for fiat currency. And that is, for multiple reasons of them is the inflationary nature of fiat currency. And there are other reasons they bring as well that these academics would say we
all agree, the classical hedonic Ribba is how long we all agree, but this cash that we're using this paper currency that we're using, given that it is different from gold and silver, and that it is actually dealing from gold and silver, that's one argument and then the other argument, which I think is very interesting, and that is that the value does not remain stagnant. And a long term loan does not retain the same monetary value over the course of 20 years. So, currency by its nature is inflationary. And so, these group of academics, some of them outright, say there is no ribbon field, but others say that traditional field has to be rethought. And we have to have a more nuanced
response to the realities of modern finance. So, without getting too technical, what is your overall position about this yet at all this objection, right, there is a minor one and a major one, the minor one if if we ask those scholars that academics, yes, I mean, if he has one, he does not have an intrinsic value. And gold and silver do have How can you buy gold and silver nowadays?
You have to use coin,
you have to use money, right? So fiat money actually is used to purchase gold and silver, it takes the same rules of gold and silver. So all the life rebel rules apply to gold and silver, they do apply to fiat currency nowadays, this is actually the minor issue. The major issue here, sir,
it is, it is really a fundamental one, what we believe in is that loan is not a mod to finance to start with. So the inflation issue does not even exist, according to our theory, okay, if someone actually is approaching me asking for $5,000 to pay for the tuition fees, or the interface apartments, or to you know, whatever surgery or I mean, something that's really, you know, necessary, I'll be more than happy to give him $5,000 for maybe a few weeks, few months. And a part of that as it is that I'm willing to take, you know, to take the inflation or to incur the inflation because giving giving alone is that is an act of devotion and charity, I give it you know, for the
cause of Allah subhanaw taala So, I'm not allowed to take any single, you know, penny on top of the principal, I give him or her $5,000 I get it back 5000 no more or no less. Right now, if that person actually is approaching me asking for $100,000 And I know for a fact that he wants to upgrade his business, right? Okay. Well, even if I have the you know, the $100,000 I will not give it to him. I mean, based do not with all due respect, I'll give you $100,000 as Portugal has an interest free loan, you take my money, right as a loan, okay, because I do not charge an interest and you're a practicing Muslim like me, you do not you know, pay interest. You take my money, you invest it in
your business for two three days, you'll make 10s of 1000s of dollars of profit. And then you come back to me after three years giving me a big hug. Just Dr. Walker here's your money back. Seriously. Is this a good business? Of course it is not. So if I want that you want my money to do business? Well, let's sit down and talk and talk business we can go with Donald autobahn, right I give you the money because I know that you are the experts in the car dealership business here is the money here is the shirt on the condition and the situation is go ahead and work on my money on my behalf. whatever profit you make net profit I will take. So my point to share is that
inflation is an issue when it comes to giving the lawn as a more definers. Well, if we disagree on the on this fundamental issue, that loan is not even more defined as to start with then then the inflation issue does not exist to start with.
Fair enough. Yeah, I mean, shut up.
I would say theoretically or correct, but realistically, people will be taking loans for various reasons even let's say medical school, for example, there's something of this nature where the loans do become quite large and
there is a Hajah amongst the people but you're correct from an ideal perspective, we should not be taking large amounts of loans for business purposes or even for you go within of those like Islamic modified depends on the nature of the business that you want to finance for. But loan I'm going to start with is not a more defined as period. Inshallah head so move on to the second to last question.
We talked about Riba and back and forth, let's get to the broader question. Can you define what makes Islamic finance Islamic what is Islamic about our version of Islamic finance? I'll be honest here, a lot of people think that it's a type of numbers game or word game. The and you yourself just said the ruling is we don't care about the words us we care about the acid we care about the overall. And it is as if some of these Islamic mortgage companies they're taking from Fannie and Freddie or they're taking from the same people, and they're even charging a little bit more and in reality, it seems as if the contract is constructed all in their favor. So what exactly makes
Islamic finance Islamic?
Well, in the same way that we have like a Muslim family law and Muslim pin along Muslim economic system, we do have an Islamic finance system. If you avoid like certain defects and the agreement in which one of them are the most important one as it is riba then this is by default, understandable. And by the way, I do not think it is fair enough to call it Islamic to start with, you can call it a Jewish Finance, believe it or not, you can call it the Christie and finance because Allah subhanaw taala don't have prohibited us from dealing with interest is disabled who prohibited the Jewish community from dealing with interest, well, after the hem will rebel opposite. Look at the one. So
revature is prohibited in Christianity for fact, Riba is prohibited and the Abrahamic faith, for fact, in Judaism, for fat, so I do not mind at all, if you call it the Jewish Finance or Christian finance, I do not mind at all, the most important thing is to make sure that you go with the just and fair and ethically responsible, responsible finance. Now back to the maybe mortgage, Islamic mortgage companies.
What makes it Islamic or what makes it different? Well, if you are looking for a genuine sound 100% Islamic finance practice in the USA, with those companies who deal in the secondary market, we are wasting our time to be honest with you, you won't find it you cannot find it, period, right? Unless you operate offline. And Hamdulillah. We do have a lot of attempts here in the US Islamic mortgage companies who do not who do not deal in the secondary market. For those who do not know what does it mean secondary market banks, usually mortgage companies do not have the financial ability of waiting for you as a customer for 2030 years to pay them back the principal. They just take that out next
day and they sell that contract to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, if it if it is worth let's say $1 million dollars, they take nine $970,000 cash and that's it and you start paying your money to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae again, they do not have the ability in order for them to make those contracts. Okay, sellable to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae they have to go with the book. So they all actually are Freddie Mac compliant way more than to be Sharia compliant. Now, to be honest, and And fair enough for those companies, they are not in the same level of diligence and dedication to implement an Islamic Finance Finance model problem he or she has that problem the fundamental
problem is that the whole system is an understanding one. So, in order for you to incorporate a genuine and sound Islamic finance practice within an understanding finance it is close to impossible, right? Because of the severe incompatibility between the two differences in this damage one, you have to own the property you have to be alive and responsible for the property, you pay maintenance, you pay tax, you pay insurance, can you take the risk of like any increase or decrease in the market value and the traditional finance system you cannot do any of the above? So to do all the above or not to do all the above? I mean, it is it is impossible. However, however, we do have
some serious atoms who were able to navigate through the system and find a way that is I call it halal enough option handling of Halal enough of a new category
option versus just just like traditional mortgage on Well, I mean, if you have Halal enough versus absolutely haram which one you go with, like back home we say that
armadura llama, right? Like, you know something is better than nothing. So we do have a handler some some attempts. Again, if you go to MJ, just Google MJ, instead of warriors company you read like a very detailed declaration about those five major companies operating in the US. J Shekinah. It's Friday nights, I'm going to conclude with one question shall loads. It's a bit of a blunt question shift. But I mean, I, you are the person to ask this too.
Isn't it a little bit overwhelming then like what can we do against the global financial market then? I mean, is there any hope for us Muslims, impacting the system, the whole world functions on Riba? The whole world is based on a version of capitalism that from its very soul and fundamentals contradicts our ethos and our spirit, only for us, giving a loan is an act of worship right then. And there, we changed the entire paradigm of, you know, the Western version of capitalism for us, you know, as a business partnership. So what can we do to affect the system? I mean, we're a small minority in this country. And even in the globe, no doubt, you know, Muslims are much larger, but
still, the system is totally antithetical to us. So can we as Muslims really produce a version or a product that is so solid, it will insha Allah to Allah, supplant and replace the other system or maybe even make a dent in it?
are you talking about Muslim Muslim Muslim countries, authorities who do have the ability of restructuring the finance system, or talking about Muslim minority in the US, let's focus about Jay and focus on our symposium? Well, I have been in this field for for 20 years. God has, I wholeheartedly believe that that the Muslim community in the United States does have enough financial resources, intellectual, academic, human resources that are enough to establish our own finance system in the United States. Wallah Do you know that that it is very very possible to establish a federal credit union Federal Credit Union, you need maybe two or $3 million to establish
it or just start at your accordingly and to start operating. In the same way that we have a lot of challenges we have a lot of opportunities here. What we are lacking unfortunately, I wish will lie I'm wrong, but this is this is the reality. We are lacking a vision lacking leadership, we can establish our own our own system and I'm aware of several different attempts for example systemic mortgage companies who operate of the system they do not deal with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae whatsoever very successful yes their financial capacity is very limited but at the end of the day they produce why I mean why do not just copy and paste this this model and do it over and over? How
about establishing establishing a federal credit union which is the alternative actually of the traditional banking system? I'm aware of several LLC like different different corporations who just to bring money from different investors and the work on the on the ground doing real estate business or car dealership or whatever halaal business and they are doing a wonderful job we can we can chat in the system we can on the other hand we can we can penetrate the system if we do the necessary lobbying talking to like you know, public officials do you like doing our own we can change the system a little bit and just establish some Sharia compliance you know,
Islamic finance Institute's in the in the United States so Hamdulillah I mean, when there is a world there is a there is a way the problem here yet is with well with the vision with the with the leadership I tried myself and it's not a secret to establish a federal credit union And subhanAllah I was I was like pushed back by by several not not like you know common Muslim no by several scholars all be careful chef I mean, this is money I mean, we do not want to get involved in Why stay away from just educate people do not I want her to like like bringing Islamic finance from the theory to the practice. We said there's like acting as the bad guy this is haram or this is evil, I
want to provide an alternative when I started working on the ground, there was like a lot of pushback from within the Muslim community leaders Musharraf and and that's actually the the genesis of the problem that we have.
Otherwise, whereby the opportunities are there I'm, I'm responsible for what I say we can do a lot
with Hamdulillah. So inshallah there is light at the end of the tunnel and inshallah Tada maybe within within our generation Inshallah, we will be able to see a viable alternative where our youth maybe even this people in the audience, you show them when they grow up and it's time for them to not just get cash back but house back inshallah as well. That there will be viable alternatives to Shala
There's good news and hamdulillah Shana it's with Zack Allah said I know you've had a flight and a long day today Zack Allah Farah for honoring us with your presence and tomorrow guys so that the Doha inshallah be here and register and attend the class inshallah so let's me let's be can this suggest that we do not ask questions like for tonight after I finish yeah just said all the questions for two more like different that's why our ministry today yeah tomorrow between Laura and Alison Shalom here inshallah I will do my best inshallah to answer questions tomorrow in sha
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