Social Justice Episode 24 – Insurance Companies and Vulnerable Citizens

spinomenal Haman hamdulillahi Rabbil alameen whenever you want to learn more, I mean what are people too much caffeine, la masala, cinnamon Baraka, avocado, silica, Mohammed and solahart. He was selling wine and he was happy to sell him to him and cathedra Okay, so we are now on Hadeeth 2424. Right. All right, what are we talking about last week?

labor, we talked about interest. Now, just a couple of notes in Charlottetown. Before I talk about tonight's class, just to reiterate that we're going to be taking a break from this halaqa for a few weeks, and Shawn loves it. So we will restart this HELOC on actually a month will restart on January 16. In sha Allah, so this halleck is gonna we're gonna break until January 16. I did the math, that should put us to end the 14th Hadith the week of Ramadan inshallah so hopefully we'll finish this series, right going into Ramadan. And it'll allow us to, to move on to the next one with the nighttime after after Ramadan. Another thing is that tonight's subject also deals with finance. But

I want to offer a disclaimer, this isn't an Islamic finance class. And it's hard for me even in preparing the notes of the class to not fall into the trap of going through a discussion of halal and haram what's lawful and prohibited in regards to transactions because the goal of this class is to demonstrate Islam's wholesome paradigms, in dealing with social injustice. Most injustice is take place either within or due to financial transaction. Okay, so they always say follow the money, right? So money causes most of the world's problems.

Or there are problems in the way that money is dealt with,

you know, in the realm of transaction. So, this is a class on social justice, the goal is to show those paradigms and then obviously, to put not just pressure on us in regards to how we we make sure that we conform to Islam's you know, moral code or its ethics and financial transactions to the best of our ability, but also how we seek to shift within our own capacity, the way our communities function, and, you know, to offer alternative ways of dealing with these things from an ethical perspective. And so tonight's topic was particularly really difficult. And inshallah tada what I plan to do it, it'll probably be a little bit shorter of a halaqa tonight than it was last week,

because we did get started a little late. But hopefully, once this is all done, just so you all know the intention after these 40 Hadith and these classes are done, we're taking notes, obviously, that you can find on the website every week, the goal will be to compile it in a book form, inshallah, and then more details will be filled out within that book form. So there are a lot of things that I might not cover. Tonight based on feedback based on

you know, based on how things go when once we get to publication, and Charlotte's data will fill in some of these details. So tonight, we're talking about a concept in Islam known as 000 is uncertainty and most often it comes into the discussion of insurance. So he talks about interest bearing transactions, we talked about why Islam took such a strong stance against insurance against interest and usury. And how Riba has become a tool of the elites to exploit the vulnerable. And essentially, how the whole concept of lending in Islam falls under charity, not under business, there is no concept of make money off of lending in a snap, because that would require for those

that have money to exploit people in their vulnerable moments, and to bury them in debt, and then to make money off of that money and nothing else. When we talk about insurance companies, and we talk about labor, I might sound like Bernie Sanders a few times today. This isn't a socialist Marxist worldview. This is a very, you know, it's meant to be a very unique Islamic

view of how these things are viewed, the concept of insurance and the concept of a model and what that actually means. So I want to start off with this.

The goal in Islam is to end exploitation is to end exploitation of the vulnerable. And so you're not going to find an exact counterpart in Islam to Riba based loans to usury, or interest bearing, lending, or to commercial insurance because Islam discourages wealth maximization that arises from the exploitation of vulnerability, taking advantage of people in their vulnerable moments or in their fear or when they don't have something and you know, that they need to resort to things that are not pleasant, in order to get themselves out of an unfavorable situation. That's that isn't, you know,

Completely contradicts the objectives of Islamic law the mocassins and so you're not going to find these exact counterparts. So I'll go through just a technical overview of, of what what it is and then we'll talk about it from a societal perspective and how this falls into the discussion of social justice. The Hadith in Sahih Muslim and there are many edits like it. Now, how about pseudo law, he saw a lahardee he was Southern man baytril hustle, but I'm very proud of that the prophets of Allah it was sent him forbade transactions that are determined by the throwing of stones, or transactions that involve uncertainty transactions that involve a lot of, okay, a lot of means

deceptive uncertainty, an unacceptable level of ambiguity we've talked about in previous Holocaust deception in your product. We've talked about showing the good and covering the bad when you're selling, we've talked about these types of things. But the hot off is an unacceptable level of ambiguity after Riba, after the prohibition on interest, the prohibition of fraud is the most important Islamic safeguard against injustice in commercial transaction. Okay? It's meant to minimize deception. It's meant to decrease the likelihood of disputes because most of the time dispute arises in the presence of uncertainty. Right? The uncertainty is okay, when you're on good

terms, the uncertainty is exploited when you're on bad terms. So it's meant to minimize disruption to decrease the likelihood of dispute to reduce the opportunity of exploitation to prevent people getting cheated, okay? Whether it's the whether it's the insurer or the insured, okay? Whatever side of this transaction, you're on to prevent people from being treated so hot or cheated on literally means.

Actually, its literal meaning it means danger and the Arabic language, it means exposure to destruction. It means excessive risk. excessive risk,

refers to deception and it refers to uncertainty. So again, danger, exposure to destruction, excessive risk, deception, and

uncertainty. Okay. So in in financial transaction, it refers to,

you know, fraud through uncertainty. Okay, so fraudulent activity, through uncertainty. And it refers to both the buyer and the seller, the one who's transacting or the one who is in the, you know, in a place of advantage, and the one who is being insured, or the one who's on the buying end of this, the consumer end of this so refers to both, you can both participate in the hot up, you might go into something, not knowing exactly what's going to happen. So you might willfully enter into an arena of excessive risk. And that's prohibited in the Sharia. When it comes to a financial transaction. It resembles what what is the resemble gambling, okay? When you don't know what you're

getting into, and you have uncertainty or ignorance over the object of the sale, so it's meant to, it's meant to protect both sides of the of the transaction. So check this time and Samia rahimullah, he defined a lot. He said, when someone doesn't know what's in store for him at the end of the trade. That's the first thing when someone doesn't know what's in store for him at the end of the trade. And I'll define this a little bit more particular. I'm trying very hard not to like to take off the Islamic finance hat and stick to social justice. But I'm just going to give you these technical definitions so that you can have these concepts inshallah to Allah

understood when we start talking about it from the societal perspective. So again, what did I just say the definition is

you don't have to give me verbatim, but you don't know what's at the end of the trade. You don't know what's at the end of the trade. And he said, it's, you know, He further went on to say it's, it's a combination of risk taking, and the devouring of the property of one party by the other. So it's risk taking, and the devouring of one of the property of one party by the other. Now, some of you might say, Well, wait a minute, there's risk in every business transaction. There's meant to be risk, right? There's supposed to be some level of risk and we talked about this, how Allah subhanaw taala responded to those halala who bear Well, how do I mareeba those who said that there is just

like, that sale his trade is just like interest. It's just like usury. It's the same thing as an excuse for what for them to engage in usury. It's it's essentially the same thing and Allah subhanaw taala made one permissible and he excessively prohibited the other being interest. So yes, there is meant to be risk in a business trends.

Actually, in fact, Islam stipulates there be a liability of loss as a condition for the validity of profit, there has to be a liability of loss as a condition for the validity of profits, okay? Otherwise, it's a little bit. That's the whole point of, you know, when you lens when you invest in something, or you buy something, and sell it at a higher price, as opposed to, I'll give you this money to go buy it and you pay me the higher price. I'm not, I am not incurring any liability in the process. I'm putting all the liability on that person. That's the dilemma. Okay, so it's not actually stipulates liability on the part of both parties in order for it to be a valid transaction

in the first place. But that's investments that's not lending, because there is no Islamic concept of lending for business. We already covered that last week. Okay. So then what about moussaka? Like when people go into a partnership, there are different types of Islamic finance models, right. So Still, the ratios have to be well defined, so that the risk is equally shared. So the point is, is that there is going to be risk, but the risk has to involve some level of investment on both parties. And there has to be as much definition as possible. So there's some uncertainty that exists in every business transaction. What is a lot of in regards to a business transaction? Okay. There

could be uncertainty in the value of the subject matter, uncertainty in the value of the subject matter. Okay. The big discuss discussion, and don't ask me about, what is everyone asking about now, when it comes to finance?

There you go. So the scholars that would that would prohibit that would prohibited on the basis of a lot on here that there's uncertainty in the value of the subject matter. I'm not giving a fifth word that it's prohibited. Because to be honest with you, I don't have a fatwa on it. Like I'm looking at big scholars that are still analyzing it and haven't given a fatwa because it's been such a rapid development. So I'm not going to tell you, whether it's halal or haram. But that, you know, the this is where the discussion comes in. What's that? Is there actual value in the subject matter? Think about pyramid schemes, right? Is there actual value in the subject matter is there uncertainty in

the very value of the subject matter?

uncertainty, there could be a lot on on the time or the amount of payments on deferred sales, I'll pay you later, or uncertainty on the quality and quantity. So the profit slice on For example, He prohibited that you buy fruits before they become ripe. Okay, because you don't know what's going to come out of it. Or you say to a person also loss licen prohibited someone from buying whatever's in the fishnet. So whatever you put whatever comes out, when you cast, you're not going to buy that for this price, you have to wait to see what comes up. It also prohibited a person selling birds in the sky or something, you know, where they're their actual bodies to prohibit these things, because the

Arabs had very unique schemes, just like every society has unique schemes. I think we're the most creative society in the history of the world, in wronging people in the financial realm, to be honest with you, I don't think anyone's ever been as creative as we are. But that's another story. But the point is, they're very, they're various schemes, right? That all lead to the, to the distribution of wealth in a way that's not going to be equitable. There could be uncertainty on its existence, the Prophet slicin prohibited people from buying an unborn animal. Right, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy the animal that comes out from this animal, because there's uncertainty of the

pregnancy will go through if that animal will actually be born. But can I buy a pregnant animal?

Yes. Is there more value if the animal eventually gives birth? Like, maybe I'm going I'm purchasing an animal? Those of you that purchase animals, I don't know, VRC sells animals or not, but we don't. Okay. But if you're, if you're if you're purchasing sheep, or livestock and it you know, the value could be increased if there's a pregnancy, right, so maybe that means more for me, but the sale itself can't be predicated on that.

So I might choose to buy that animal. And so you know what, hopefully this will be to animals, but at the same time, I can't say I'm going to buy the unborn animal because there's uncertainty in its existence. This is a big one in modern times uncertainty on ownership, and availability, and deliverability. What does that mean?

Almost everything in the financial realm today depends on selling something you don't quite yet possess.

Especially people that sell things in large quantities. I don't yet possess it, but I'll sell it and then I'll purchase the product. Is that haram or is that not How about, technically speaking, you can't sell something you don't own. That is how long you can't sell something you don't own. However, the scholars talked about whether the prohibited

is in regards to a club is in regards to the actual possession of that of that item? Or if there is uncertainty in whether or not you'll be able to deliver.

You guys hear the difference between the two? Is there any uncertainty in your ability to deliver it or not? If dental claim or haimo law says, if there is no uncertainty than the prohibition doesn't exist, if you're certain in its possession, then that's then the prohibition is not there. So it's not about the actual possession, as opposed to the uncertainty that comes with that possession. So I might sell you something that I don't own. And you're buying from me thinking I own it. And I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to deliver. So there's, there's a, there's a deception there, that's present. Okay. So the profit slice, and I'm prohibited technically selling that what you don't own.

So there's ownership availability, and deliverability. Okay.

You also have to be, you know, there's not all that is acceptable in Colorado, that is unacceptable. So that are that is consequential.

And God, that's not uncertainty. That's not. So for example, I'm going to sell you an iPhone.

Okay, if I'm, if I say I'm going to sell you an iPhone, all right, how much do you want for the iPhone? $500? I haven't told you what model it is. That's an impermissible transaction.

Okay, because there's too much.

Alright, unless it's like one of the driving and make that joke, because you might take me seriously about the difference of the variance between some models. But the point is, is that I've got to be as specific as possible. And there might be some uncertainty that comes with that sale. But at the same time, I have to be as specific as possible, there is going to be some A lot of you know how when you go and you buy the phone from the store, you get a batch, the store gets a batch, you might get lucky, you might get one of the good phones, or the bad phones that might affect its signal, how many times the box or that particular crate was tossed around. All of that is valid. There's some

uncertainty in it, but that's an acceptable level of uncertainty. Okay.

All right. So what's the difference between the two? Or what is the hurdle? I'm just going to give you three rules, and then we'll move on to the social justice part. So the first one is the veteran has to be significant, the uncertainty has to be significant for it to be prohibited. So even though pm Rahim Allah says if the vada is slight, or it cannot be avoided, then it doesn't hinder the validity of the contract. Okay, if it's slight, and it cannot be avoided, then it doesn't hinder the validity of the contract. So just some of the examples that I just gave you right now. Okay, so when I sell a house,

you see that the house has the walls, and it has all of this? I don't I you know, there's some uncertainty as to what's going on behind the walls. I don't know if there are rats in the house, maybe I have, I have a suspicion. I don't know, if there's foundation issues, I'm looking at certain things. But the point is that there is going to be some level of uncertainty that comes as a result of that. And that's not consequential. Okay, it's not significant. And that type of huddle,

which is in which is insignificant is permitted, as opposed to the selling of something that is ambiguous or uncertain, or the selling of risk. The second thing, the borrower has to exist in what is contracted itself. So I said, The first rule is that the veteran has to be significant.

The second rule is that it has to exist, and that which is contracted itself. So I mentioned for example, it was permissible, or the permissibility.

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sound way.

Too cute. I can't.

All right.

What's up? Okay.

So the permissibility of,

of selling something that that might have an added benefit, where there is some uncertainty in regards to the secondary matter of it, as opposed to selling something that is uncertain in and of itself. Okay. So the prohibition of selling the prohibition of selling fruits until they have ripened is there, but it's permitted to sell it along with the tree. So I'm buying a tree, the fruits may or may not grow on it, that's fine, that there's some hot or there's some uncertainty in there. However, there is no doubt or uncertainty in the sale. I'm sorry, there is a lot of harm in the sale of fruits that have not yet. Right, and the third thing is looking at the need of the

contract itself. The contract must not be warranted by a need. The contract must not not be warranted by a neat.

Serbian say me about him. Allah said that the harm in law is less than that of Riba. And thus, it was consented in cases of need. the harm of law is less than Riba and so it was excessive

subjected in cases of need. In a modern context, you are mandated, for example, to have liability car insurance.

That doesn't excuse you to get all the optional stuff as well. Okay? There might be something that's prohibitive, that if you don't have health insurance, you know, it's illegal, obviously. And that's all that's still being debated. But, you know, even before Obamacare comes along, or mandates, Obamacare, or health insurance, or whatever that means now,

it's prohibitive to not have health insurance, you can't afford to get sick in this country. Right? So there's a permissibility there, right. So permissibility would be extended in cases of need. That does not mean that it's extended to all cases

in which they are optional. Okay. So what does this mean now in terms of our societal understanding of insurance, and the thought of and what that refers to, as I said, the goal is to end exploitation. So is there an Islamic concept of insurance and taking care of people, pooling resources, and mutual cooperation is part of our Deen. In fact, Islam had some of the most innovative models in that regard, dating back to the profits of a law abiding listener. So there's a Hadith, it's an animal hottie, where the prophets lie some talks about

where it's narrated by Abu Musab, actually, but the law on the prophets license said that when the when the Ashanti tribe are on an expedition, and they run out of food supplies, or food becomes scarce for their families, in Medina, they put everything together, they have in one lot, and then they divided equally amongst themselves and the Prophet size. Some said they are for me, and I am from that meaning he was praising that this idea of pooling resources, taking care of everyone, the profit slice, I'm also praised a tribe that maintains, you know, a pool for itself, or he accepted a tribe that would maintain a pool of resources for itself so that if someone from that tribe found

themselves in a detrimental situation, the tribe could take care of that person, that's something that was permitted.

So when we talk about this idea of mutual guarantee, or this idea of Islamic cooperative insurance, we find early Islamic models of when Muslims started to take to the seas, so ship insurance, if you will,

as they as they embarked on their journeys, all of them pooling their money so that if one person ship went bad, then there was a, there was money to take care of that. All of that is found in our tradition. And when it comes to natural disaster, or you know, or the case of unforeseen circumstances, that's where you had dates when not, that's where you had the Treasury. So traditionally, speaking, when you study the Islamic model, that's where the government came in, there was already Social Security, right? It was built in that it was the responsibility of the government to take care of its citizens, when there was a natural disaster, or some unforeseen

circumstance that that had nothing to do with any irresponsibility of their own, or anything that they did, or any faulty transaction, it was something completely unforeseen. That was the responsibility of state. Okay, and that's something that we find in our tradition. So as you can see, the idea is that the Islamic model is based on unity, it's based on participation, it's based on, you know, guaranteeing that people don't find themselves in detrimental certain situations or circumstances, there is no profit to be made off of this. There is no profit to be made off of this. Okay. So, uh, you know, the first golden rule here is that insurance is permissible if the insurer

provides profit shares instead of fixed amounts. So the mute there's a mutual there's a mutual participation in this insurance. And I'll get to that in Charlottetown in a moment. So what happens here? When we talk about social injustice, why are we talking about insurance companies, and this is where the the Bernie Sanders part comes up. All right. If you think about the way that big insurance companies function today, and the way that people are drowned, constantly paying their premiums, the first thing is that less than 3% of that which goes to insurance companies, collectively comes back to those who are pink.

So you've got companies that are profiting off of people's vulnerability, and making killer profits at that. And there are lobby groups and all types of things to ensure that those models stay in place. There is a competitive nature, there's a way to raise premiums and to put people in a situation where they have to opt to pay higher premiums. And again, how much of that money is actually coming back. So there's Riba which is the excess money to the to the policy to the companies, and there is a lot of there's uncertainty because you don't know what's actually going to happen here. And more than likely, 97% of the money is not going to come

Back to the holders, the policy holders. So it's circulation amongst,

you know, big companies. So again, it's the rich getting richer off of the vulnerability, the vulnerabilities of the lay person, which is, you know, really, this is fraudulent if you think about this, Islam, indeed tries to protect against things of that sort. Also, for one person to experience a financial benefit, another person has to experience a financial loss. So people put in this money, and you know, one person, you're banking on the idea that this nothing's going to happen to this person, and something will happen to this person, they're going to take that money. So there's a problem there as well. There's the selling of ambiguity, which is prohibited in the shutout as a

whole and has major problems to it. So Islam, you know, if you look at Mesa, which is gambling,

its wealth obtained by chance, right? You're a person is trying to obtain wealth by chance. With a lot, it's pure risk. It's pure uncertainty, it's pure hazard. Right, Riba is usury. But if you think about insurance, and how it functions today, in a way, it's worse than gambling.

It really is the way that it functions. I'm talking about the system we put put the onus back on the way that the system functions, okay. And gambling, you theoretically have a chance to win more than what you put in, right with insurance. At best, you only receive a replacement of what you lose at dust. So it's a panel, I mean, the thought here is even worse, it actually puts a person in a worse situation sometimes

as as, as as gambling, then if you think about the way that that that the uncertainty here is used, or creates an atmosphere of cheating and deception, okay. Insurance companies scrutinize claims extremely closely. Why? Because at the end of the day, they're going to try to escape their responsibility to pay you back anything. Look at what happens when a hurricane hot when Hurricane Katrina happened, all right, this is the New Orleans part, the you know, oh, well, there is no flood insurance. And well, that doesn't count and this doesn't count. So insurance companies will will try to escape the responsibility after taking your money. And they have to scrutinize the claims very

strictly. Okay. So here's what happens in that scrutiny, they might end up denying benefits to people that actually deserve them.

The claims that actually have merit. So you have some people that, that pay their entire lives that put that drain themselves financially, to feed these companies and then don't receive legitimate compensation for losses that are supposed to be guaranteed. And then you have others on the other side, that will cheat the insurance companies that will falsify claims in order to get more from the insurance company. So you know, you have lying and cheating on both sides that occurs.

Right now we're talking about, again, the way that the system functions. So you know, the insurance companies want to take as much money from you as possible, and pay you back as little as possible. And you'll have consumers that want to pay as little premiums as possible, but then falsify claims and then get back and cheat so that they can get back as much money as possible. Okay. So that's obviously where the huddle ends up, you know, causing cheating and deception on both sides. Cheating and deception on both sides. And this is where you have people burning down their stores, I'm not giving anyone any ideas. It's a horrible idea, right, that will do things. And yes, sometimes

Muslims will do stuff like this. So you have cheating that goes both ways. And you say, hey, well, they cheat us. So we're gonna cheat them, get the insurance company back. Okay. So it's an atmosphere becomes, you know, an atmosphere of lying and cheating on both sides. And also, when it comes to insurance, obviously, there is the, the,

the Shahada that takes place that you know, the ambiguity, that you don't know what you are getting in return for your payments. So one person might pay one month of premiums and get a huge payout, another person pays forever and gets nothing in return.

So that uncertainty obviously is inequitable. It's not fair. And obviously,

you know, what this creates in society is that once again, like when we talked about bribes, and we talked about deception, we talked about all of these other atmospheres and these things at the profit slice I'm prohibited in order to get ahead you have to be willing to take yourself and to do the you know, to play dirty games so that you don't end up you know, getting the worst end of this deal. Right. So if you think about what this means for society and what this does for society

This is not just an issue of head out and head on for me as a person. It creates major gaps major social and justices and continues to make

The rich richer and the poor, even poor. So what what's an alternative here? Okay, what is this not offer as an alternative here, cooperative, benevolent insurance, Mutual Insurance, this idea of people coming together and participating together to take care of each other. This could be implemented on a community level, it could be implemented by a group of families, it could be implemented by by five or six friends, right? That you that you pull your money to take care of each other. If someone ends up in a situation, that's detrimental an unforeseen circumstance or a situation, okay. And there are some countries by the way that are trying to adopt these types of

models. So

you know, where the money even comes back, because again, there is no profit from this. So technically speaking, everyone's supposed to receive what wasn't used at the end of the day. So Kuwait's for example, is trying to adopt some sort of a model like this, where everyone pays a monthly premium. But whatever isn't used for admin fees, or covering claims is returned back to the insured at the end of the year, and then the cycle is repeated. So there's no profit involved in all of this. So since there is no profit, the exploitation is non existent, the the incentive to exploit his non existence in the system.

So someone might say, Well, you know, well, people are bound to exploit as long as the profit incentive is there, this is obviously something that's going to be exploited. And if you think about what that covers, it covers education, it covers our health, it covers our life insurance. I mean, if you think our homeowners, it covers all of our means, or modes of stability in life, are owned and dominated by this institution, right, where exploitation is rampant. So Islam

encourages that, you know, the consequences of any hardship are to be shared. And you know, in this in this model, even if it defaults, some of its members. So you do have now you know, these models that come up of takaful, where groups come together to mutually agree to protect each other. Obviously, Malaysia is one of the countries that's experimenting with many of these Islamic finance models to try to come up with something like that. And somehow you'll find articles. If you don't have a subscription to The Economist, then you can't read the article. But there are a lot of articles about how Western countries are adopting some of these models are starting to warm up to

some of these models in order to mitigate some of the harm that's come up from the big bubbles, the massive bubbles that have been formed by river, and Nevada. So insurance features fixed payments in exchange for uncertain returns.

So Islam eliminates the uncertainty part. Fixed payments are not the problem. It's about the uncertainty and the exploitation that comes with conventional or commercial insurance. Now, I want to make a few things clear here. This is not this onus is not just on the individual to think about halal and haram and what they deal with in regards to insurance, right, I have to make this decision or I have to make that decision. But it's important for us to actually be able to offer solutions and to come up with creative ways, creative ways to protect ourselves from these things. So if there are creative ways to protect ourselves from these things, we should also looking at commercial

insurance. Not all evils are like it's just like when you talk about loans, subsidized loans, and things of that, you know, I'm not saying that a person should resort to harm easily but not all, not all forms of insurance are like there are Mutual Insurance models. They're not perfect. You look through the companies, you'll find some and I'm not I'm certainly not going to name a company right now you can Google it, because I'm not going to go on record endorsing a commercial insurance company. But there are Mutual Insurance companies, as opposed to stock insurance companies. There is no doubt that Mutual Insurance Companies are closer or closer to what Islam permits, and the spirits

of what Islam legislated in regards to taking care of people. One question that comes by the way, so So, because this is something that's also very likely to take place, and it's increasing

because of its frequency. What about warranties on a product that you buy? I don't want to get too much in the hell out and around. But let's say that you buy a MacBook, and Apple offers you a five year warranty. Is it permissible or not permissible?

scholars permit that. Why? Because law is the secondary quality of it. It's basically a benefit from the seller, that he will guarantee the functionality of the product he's giving you. And that's a benefit that you can pay for a secondary benefit you can pay for however, what's not permissible, just so you can understand the distinction between the two is when a third party comes in and sells you a warranty on that product.

Because the the the the asset itself is the risk and the uncertainty that so you might go on like Amazon or you might go on one of these things and someone else will serve as you know, serve as the warranty provider. And that's not that's not permissible from an Islamic perspective. So the few articles that I'd have, I'd have you read one of them. Dr. Hartman hedge has a good primer the question of insurance. So you can look up Dr. Hartman hedges work called the question of insurance. There's another article from Hanuman root in the U Penn Law Journal, her name is Hannah Massoud. And she wrote to careful and innovative approach to insurance and Islamic finance to California, an

innovative approach to insurance and Islamic finance. And it's in the new pan large journal. And her name is Hania Massoud Ha Ni a last name ma s UD. And then finally,

Asha Joe Bradford has a paper that he that was published by Harvard

and I think it's a really interesting paper and I'll tell you why. But the name of the paper is that's what and its role in regulatory capture. That's what and its role in regulatory capture. Now Joe Bradford you know, may Allah reward him he writes a lot on these contemporary things he's even written already he's he's ahead of the game on the cryptocurrency and some of these things so you can look up a lot of these are generally recommend him on a lot of these Islamic finance questions as they're coming up, because they're very unique and, and well rooted perspectives. But Foxwell and its role in regulatory capture. What I really appreciated about that is he's talking about how to

Castle, the castle. And many of these Islamic countries is basically duplicating, or it's replicating commercial insurance, and its nature, but just repackaging things. So the spirit of it is the exact same thing, which is why becomes a multi billion dollar industry.

What's important here is that it's not about the repackaging in the names, but it's about the ethics that are supposed to be infused as well. And that's something that we should be thinking about. And as someone who studied, you know, has a background in Islamic Finance, I can tell you that the majority of it is repackaging, not actually reimagining things. From there, you know, at the very substance at the very core, but just repackaging things, and renaming things and shifting things here and there. But there is no change in the essence of it as well. So he talks about its role in regulatory capture, he talks about how, you know, at the end of the day, you have profiteering

taking place in these two capital models that are government run, but there is there are beneficiaries and the spirit of it has not changed. So there's a quote at the end of it, which I really do like he said, What is needed is not more Islamization, but better use of Islamic law to create equitable, just and fair markets for all stakeholders. Again, what is needed is not more Islamization, but better use of Islamic law to create equitable, just and fair markets for all stakeholders. So it's not just a matter of repackaging things to where they look a lot on paper. Okay, but it's actually coming up with are fulfilling ethical values, doing our best to capture that

spirit. And how Islam looked at ensuring people in the sense of mutual cooperation in the sense of protecting our, you know, protecting our communities and protecting our vulnerable as exposed to exploiting them, which is done in the commercial models as they exist today. So I hope I didn't just boggle your mind, because I skipped over. I mean, I'm skimming through

long pages of notes that I took because I don't want to make it an Islamic finance lecture, but I do want us to just sort of get a view of vara This is the last finance lecture and the 40 Hadith. So the rest of the next 16 have no finance component to them.

Although you always follow the money as we said. So, inshallah Tada. I will go ahead and open it up for questions now. I hope you guys avail yourselves of those three pieces of reading that I mentioned at the end. Yeah.