Quilliam’s Adam Deen Debate

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Mohammed Hijab

Channel: Mohammed Hijab

Topics: Comparative Religion

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Episode Transcript

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My opinion in my humble opinion, yeah, I've been I've seen a couple of things and heard a couple of things. Majid Nawaz. Yeah, I've seen and heard. And I've seen what you have to say. And what you have to say, in my humble opinion, it makes no sense for you to be working together. Well, I

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think you're more. You're more online, you're more center ground in the sense of Islamic traditionalism. In fact, I genuinely do believe that if you actually voiced your opinion in a public platform, yeah, maybe, maybe you reprimand you say this is wrong?

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Okay, in that case, you need to make very clear, because the thing is, look, my my opinion on Quilliam is that it's doesn't it doesn't help counter extremism, it is working the wrong stretches. Well, I reckon, let me say something I reckon we do the best counter extremists work. And that's no, when I say we, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about people that are traditionalist, I'm not talking about me. Well, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. But the problem is to traditional ideas

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that we believe in anyways, we've come to that conclusion. I was gonna say she was just out of missing. Yeah, look,

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this is the way to deal with extremism. In my opinion, you can take a policy

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recommendation, throw it in the bin, use it, do whatever you want to do, if you're serious about it. Okay, do not work with people who are to the Muslim community, seen as not helping or not helpful people like Majid Nawaz because he's not like you. He's very much against Islam in many aspects and Muslims, and in our opinion, and often it's our subjective opinion. Number one, that's number one, free yourself from those individuals. Number two, what you got to do is you got to work within the framework, Muslims that let me tell you this, candidly, and clearly for you to hear, please, if you're serious about countering extremism, listen to what I'm saying. Muslims are have decided or

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are about to decide to blow themselves up. Yeah, on a train or a plane, or an automobile or whatever it may be. Those individuals will not be convinced by the rhetoric of post enlightenment, they will not be let me tell you why. Because

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they will not be convinced, by post enlightenment, liberal istick democratic reasoning. They can only be convinced they can only and will only be convinced

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those individuals are

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discredited by the Muslim community. Yes, yes. They're discredited by the Buddha. I'm not saying that they have no knowledge. I'm not saying this. Within the tradition. No, they don't really because they're saying things which are, let me tell you what

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I do. I've heard him say that you can break your foster hours of time according to Saudi Arabia. The US military? Yes. Yeah. Sorry, opinion. Could be. There are many other opinions are very much isolated. Yeah. But

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no, but it's not mainstream.

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Authority. You have to work within the mainstream.

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News mainstream. Mainstream? No, no, no, there is a mainstream tradition. There is a scholastic tradition, diversity is not

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a one person.

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Tell me where it says, Don't do that. It is a fatwa supported by us. No, no, I have not made this. For me. I know, trust me, they don't have a listener like that. Yeah, they don't have a listener, they have to have contact with these guys.

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And these guys who are discredited in their own right, trust me, Listen, listen. Listen, listen.

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Who's the leader of us, and now is completely discredited in the Muslim world. You should know this. Yeah. Okay. Now, I'm not saying he doesn't have any knowledge. But it is. No problem. Adam, listen to me.

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What I'm saying to you candidly, and clearly, yeah. Is that if you're serious about seriously, you want to stop people blowing themselves up? Full stop. Yeah, you want to stop killing. And this and that. I want to do the same thing. Maybe we'll have different reasons for doing it. Maybe mean? Imagine have different reasons for doing it. Maybe me and the government of Britain have different reasons for doing it. We have different reasons for doing it. We actually do have different reasons. I'm the reason why I'm doing it to protect my own community. I'll tell you straight forward. Yeah. Because the first corruption is a deviant ideology that they're gonna be following, which could take

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them out of Islam altogether, in my opinion. Yeah. That's the first corruption. I want to protect them from that before anything else. That's number one. So here, what I'm saying is, if you're really serious about that, you need to join you need to free yourself from those individuals are completely discredited in the Muslim community. And then you need to equip yourself with the traditional knowledge that I'm sure you have some basis on that. And then you have to join those traditionalists who work within the tradition, the mainstream traditional wealth about the former head, etc. In order to try and divert those people away using that rhetoric. The post enlightenment

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rhetoric works with the British public you know, non Muslims really well. I'm telling you by does not work with someone who's about to kill some, some people. We have

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someone who's gonna blow themselves up. If someone says Look, it's not very good.

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Classical. You're doing Yeah. Freedom of speech and access innocent man.

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Exactly. That's exactly right. He's gonna give him fuel and energy. And, yeah, what he needs is someone to come to him and say, listen, okay, let me say, No, I'm not saying it's you. I'm saying that what he this guy needs. What this guy needs is that he's about to blow himself up. I'm not taking any credit for myself. A lot here. A lot of people have in the Dallas in a lot of

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the Russia particularly Yeah, those who are very engrossed in the traditional works. Yeah, they are, in my opinion, are the frontline of D radicalizing people in that same way that we talked about? When we say D radicalizing, we're talking about stopping them from blowing themselves up? You know why? Because they bring those guys to the corner and they say, you know what, you know, you're doing here, it goes against this Quranic verse, and that's called God. So the concept

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is

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to hold on to the concept of

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Islam.

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No, no harm. Done. harm is where wars happening. Yeah, no problem. You if someone comes to you and says, I believe we

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say no problem, is what you say to Adam. Say, for those who believe in it means the place of war, say I agree, no problem. We believe that we're happier. Oh, no problem. Yeah. How would you deal with that individual? I'm asking you. I mean, this is a bit of a training. Now, I'm not saying that you need it. barbell training. I'm saying I'm a radical. I'm coming to you. And I'm saying, Look, when we're in the place of war, how are we going to?

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How would you come to this? If someone comes to you, you're gonna say it was very, undemocratic is irrational. He's gonna say, you know, I don't care about democracy, and I've got my own rationality.

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I'm gonna kill the guy. How would you deal with constructive?

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identification? Okay, he's not gonna say, look, if he sees he's gonna say, look, we've got Adam Dean versus Kodama.

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Because Adam Dean is not trained. islamically it doesn't have the Arabic language etc. And nakoda is, is that a mountain? And we're gonna take him over the new because he knows more about STEM the new full stop kids clothes. You know how to deal with it. Someone comes to you says Donald, I believe I'm in dahabiya say Okay, no problem. Let's take for the sake of argument when we're playing football. You know, he says the first question

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is it okay to kill a cat in the

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first question, this is why this is a training now hope the Quilliam guys that they're listening. You say to them, is it okay to kill a cat and double hop? It's okay. What's he gonna say?

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He's gonna say no, it's not okay. If he knows anything you say? No, I don't know. Actually.

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What the Hadith of the woman that killed the cat should go to hell. Yeah. Okay, fine. It's killing a cat harem.

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Yes. Is it haram and Donald hub? Islam? Yes. How do we know it's Haram in both places? Because there's no reason for us to believe that this general rule is not applicable.

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Fine. Let's take it to the next step. Is it haram to kill a child a baby and double heart? Of course, why? Because, you know, it's haram to kill anybody remember Allah, Allah Hadith. The Prophet told us straightforwardly that McKenna, Allah and toxicol when the woman was killed in the battlefield, he said, it wasn't for her to be killed. Fine. So he was that? Yes. What did he say? He said,

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then you move up so fine. So killing civilians?

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Then he's gonna say, Okay, well, you know, you make a point. Notice how the mechanic mechanic

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when when they killed children accidentally, and they said the word there they allegedly said

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they use that? Yes, exactly. Perfect. Excellent. But But no, no, no, you put it in context. And why is it?

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Fine.

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Your methodology doesn't work. It does work. It doesn't because it works.

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Because he will I can give you the testimonials, brother. We might do. We might get you a light because the beginning of this discussion, I said to you look, what measure what way of measuring your success in terms of counter extremism was like you call it Yeah. And you said really, we have some things here and that we know it's trivial or whatever. I'm saying to you, we gave you a trivial example. But on the ground, other people that are actually in prison, yes. That we engage with them. I'm telling you our way. Today, they disavow the extreme low problems while you're lying. Consider that we've got people that we've actually go a line,

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one line, one line, one line.

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One line our way works, do you know why?

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Do you know why are

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they saying

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takes people away from ISIS? Yeah, and they join okay. And they say Well, lucky it works. No, no, but

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it depends. You're taking them away from being

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Do you

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know it's God's words wrong? Yeah, but God is just as well.

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Islam was revealed there was a historical problem, but he's saying the handle was stupid. And isn't he who is the person who said that I'm gonna cut the handle? thief? No, no,

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no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that we should cut the handle. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. We already said,

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No, no, no, I will do it. Anyway. I'm saying, you

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know, what affects the British public. tuxedo hokum is what the Quran says what the Hadith says 10 zero. Hawkman is when it's implemented. Let's talk

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what affects the British public not. I can walk around in my heart and my brain Now listen to me, and believe in my heart in my brain, that actually if all the conditions are met, and this and that no preventers one place, and we lived in a Muslim country that you know, the penis of love kinda hand off is the most beneficial one, whoever

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does that my belief will ever manifest itself in a sociological environment. It will never ever be

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this way, it will never manifest itself in the social. It has no implications on the British public because I don't believe any of the Sharia law is applicable to non Muslims, any of it and you're not praying, not fasting, not hijab. None of it is applicable to the British, non Muslim public stealing. Yes, not apostasy. All of that is not applicable in Britain, you understand? So hey, seelen as a Hong Kong, I believe it's all true. But 10 zielen implementation, I don't say it's applicable. So man, you have the same

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position has the same effect sociologically, if I bring someone out of blowing themselves up. Now blowing someone up, does have an effect on the British public. Now, British public don't give a damn if I if I think in my heart, that, you know, if I lived in an old Muslim country and his hand comes off, they don't give a damn if I think that it's not gonna affect their daily life. It's gonna affect their daily life, if I blow myself up what they need, but the problem what they need, the problem with the guy that you're talking to, right? He's been inducted with these ideas, he would consider you in a hypocrite. Because he would say you're being selective with the homies that you're

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choosing not wanting to

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be considered someone who's not consistent

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as well

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with my methods

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you know why? Because here, you have to understand the difference. The Quran, says mela comida

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cultivated up out of the tumble higher to dunya

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dunya fill flt, luckily, what is it to you? It is one of the things that they do is they say a lot of time one of the main verses that they use

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so the Toba Why don't you go out and fight? When it's when it's up to you fight in the way of Allah? Why is it Why is it

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that you come that you cling on to the earth of the

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dunya? Are you happy with this world?

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Why is the life of this world today?

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Now having said that,

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first thing I'll say to them, okay, the process medical either

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when it's said to you,

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fighting over who's speaking, not Allah

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is appealing. All of them first, you'll notice verse eight, when the

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Mark sagemont makes a really interesting book that moving the needle marks agement makes a really interesting book called leaderless jihad. One of the main books

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he even realized that no Muslim he realizes that actually this whole physical Jihad was required for it to be effective or to to actually work is a leader in the country in these things, just like any country has this leaders and soldiers whatever. Yeah, same thing. Now that we have a deep fragmented oma, there is no Jihad like that, except for the defensive one, the defensive owner someone comes into kills you and tries to your town and these things, so you have to fight them but even offensive jihad. Today, we don't have a first not in this world that Ceylon Yes, porcelain as you don't believe in? No, wait, sorry.

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You had

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to implement the [???]tier. Ceylon this way you have to differentiate an arsenal. As an arsenal you have two kinds of jihad says you have Jihad defer. And jihad

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is when you're defending yourself, you have the top is when you're pre empting jihad, you're physically doing these things. Yeah. So if there was a Muslim country, they have two options. gel defies his thought you have to everybody has to fight even the woman and the thing in a country they have to fight for to defend themselves.

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Now the scholars talk about how that should be

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implemented, etc. And usually it's implemented in the context of Empire. And really, truly, I believe, in my opinion, controversial, but in the framework of the medieval period, it was to prevent Yeah, being engulfed and absorbed into other empires and to preempt that by absorbing other empires into its own Empire. That's what we have in place. These things are tethered, qualified by lots of other laws. For example, the doctor and the minister, that some Muslim countries can have other Muslim countries, you could argue the UN, you could argue the UN, because you have to understand something, I'm sure you're covered up for understanding the pre World War One World is

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completely different to the post World War One World, completely different, will lie. It's like two worlds, pre World War One. Before 1914. Everyone was on expansion. All the Empires, you had the austro Hungarian Empire, you have the German Empire, you had the Prussian Empire, you had the Russian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, all of these empires were unashamedly expansionist and imperialist. And it was the manual of the day to be imperialist. In that context, Islam says, expand, because if you don't expand, you're gonna be expanded upon or more. And this is the second option you have.

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You have none. I'm talking about the top I'm talking about the productive. So you have you have you can expand or to you can decide to make agreements with those other empires, such that you both don't expand. Both of those things are those things are reasonable recourses in that environment? Yes. post World War One, sorry, to post war.

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post World War One, post World War Two. You had the League of Nations which felt the need of the UN. The UN is an American thing. Yeah, it's really it's dominated by America. But I'm not talking about un now. But the idea of countries coming together, deciding not to expand is supported by the Islamic texts. The key point that I was trying to make was, you don't fight. So here what I believe?

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Yes, of course not. Yes, it's fine. Because the Quran says very clearly. Chapter 22 of the Quran. It says, it says very, very clearly.

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Chapter 22 verse 69. Yeah, it says

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it says that is written upon

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those Muslims to fight the war, because they have been oppressed.

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oppression is the reason I left. So here the point is, this

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is couched in that language is a language of justification.

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In a nutshell, what we're doing I personally believe just watch it closely.

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More than what you're doing you can only do you can only do what you think is right.

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in the same direction,

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hopefully.

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Magic I completely associate from this guy. To be honest, I believe this guy maajid Nawaz, okay, I genuinely he's hated. You have to understand this. Now, it's not productive. Having someone who's so hated within the Muslim community is a sellout that's excommunicated by the majority of people. He's not gonna do any good and extremism is only for the Muslims. That delve into the mission. We're gonna do the best. In this regard. We should learn from each other from that perspective.