Channel: Mohammed Hijab
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Now, we go back to square one. Do you know why? Because I asked you a question. Is the father a separate person? To the son?
Yes. And is this a separate person? from the Holy Spirit? Yes. And do they all have autonomous wills?
Obviously, the interdependent world, it's a bit difficult. I wouldn't say autonomy, unless you define on topic. Now you're saying is, it's a bit this your words, I'm gonna say exactly what? They're not just what please
let you speak. I mean,
you said it's a bit difficult,
which is telling itself, it's a bit difficult.
Listen to what he said.
The people who are listening, okay, I'm listening to you. You are my superior in knowledge. in this field, there's no doubt about that. I am taking knowledge from you. Yes. You're finishing off your PhD. You spent how many years researching this issue? Two years in a bit. You've nearly finished? I'm not speaking to a lay man. Am I speaking to a layman?
No, no, no. Let me let me let me praise you of the in the people in the park. You're the most knowledgeable Christian? Yes. No, no, there's no doubt about it. He is the most knowledgeable Christian, there's no doubt about it. And in fact, yes, he is also
he's also the best well conducted. Yes. That's why I come to you.
I'm not speaking to a layman.
He said, and this is very telling.
It's a bit difficult.
But I would say that the wills are interdependent.
Define independence, I will define it No problem, where there is an interchange of interchangeable dependent relationship, there is a dependence relationship. interdependence means dependence, that you cannot escape this. If you say the father is dependent, how can you have an all powerful dependence being question answer? So just to backtrack, to say why. And just to clarify why it's a bit difficult, okay, then Oh, no problem, sir. Why is it it's a bit difficult. So I needed to understand what he meant by autonomy. Did you mean that they have wheels that could conflict so that the father could decide I want to do something completely different? You know, then I disagree. But
if you're saying autonomy, in that the Father has his own will autonomy once again, free will? Yes. Father has his own wheel. Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Oh, you don't have if you were saying that they could have wills that will conflict, and I have a bit of a difficulty.
Now, please repeat your question. I said,
What was your question? You said it.
Listen to me. You said that the wills are into the pendants. If the wills are interdependent, they must be dependent. By virtue of necessity. You cannot have it's impossible, logically impossible, Joshua to have interdependent, independent beings. That's a contradiction. You can either have interdependent dependent or independent, non interdependent dependent. No, no, no, no, no, no, the question now he wants to know the answer because he's been patiently waiting for the scholar of Christianity. And the people have been doing. I want to know, sorry, Joshua, sometimes I get into the mood like this I do at home as well. Trust me I do with
my family members, when uh, when I feel I feel good that
the question is this.
How can you explain the fact that God is all powerful, dependent being? That's my question. So my terminology was interdependent. What I mean by that is, yes, it's a Trinitarian principle that all of the actions of the Godhead are done together, to the Father perform something through the son, by the Holy Spirit, to anything that the father does create is done through the Son, and by the Holy Spirit. So the answer depends. Yes. So that's what I meant. So
you're inferring certain things I do.
define terms on someone's church, a Trinitarian principle, a
father never does something by himself,
by himself, by himself to get when I meant interdependent is that the will of the Father will be carried out through the sun and by the spirits. So there is no problem that you can then try and deduce does that mean it's dependent, omnipotent?
Watch Okay, Joshua. I think everyone here gets the point. I think we've
learned something Joshua, you know, when you give you a proposal,
And now you've got to three people, these three people usually, isn't it? They sitting down and asking you questions, you know, the night before what might happen.
You know, you might have a dream,
you might have a dream, okay? You might have a dream that there's one person in that seat, and maybe it's me.
And that person is asking you a very simple question. How can you have an interdependent independent being? And then you're saying all these things, and then the person talking to my right, and says, Listen, we're not satisfied.
And the person says, look,
in my statement, I said that there is an interdependent independent field. When am I said, Well, we already said
that from what you said.
You said they're separate. You said that they're all separate, autonomous entities being separate. And something means that you are
not independent as a father, not.
As you know, independent.
You're inferring things. Okay, let me I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I never said in my statement that the Trinity the Trinitarian doctrine purports to be an independent, independent. I've never said that, because that will be totally incoherent. Never say, I said that there are separate and distinct persons within the Trinity, who are interdependent, that doesn't mean that they are in dependence or they're independent.
They're not independent. No, when am I ever said they're independent, okay. So the dependent
difference between dependent and being
dependent interdependence entails dependence.
Or entailments. Tell me what the difference is? No. Okay. Every Let me tell you one more time, every interdependent entity. All right, let me ask.
Let me tell you the difference. Every interdependent entity is dependent on every dependent intensity is interdependent. But tell me what's the difference? The difference is the interdependent one has people depending on him, and he's dependent on someone else, whereas the dependent one might have someone that he's depending on and no one is dependent on him. That's what
the issue is, if you say that they're interdependent, they're necessarily dependent.
Very good. The issue with having a dependent God is that you've lost omnipotent. Why? Because if you're dependent you can't be all powerful. Why? Tell me what? sovereignty?
sovereignty is God's sovereign? Yes, you can take your time. You can fake different attributes of God and I'm not doing anything I'm just telling you. Allah says in the Quran, Allah has allowed some solid means to submit. Everything is dependent upon him. He's the pillar
is dependent on himself. Does that make him different? That's a contradiction. You can't be dependent on yourself.
No, no, no. He's not dependent on us. It's not like
you can actually be dependent. No, you can't.
You all depends on your independent.
Dependent guys the definition of independence, if you're dependent on yourself, you are independent. What are you this is interesting. What's your name? Christian.
Muslim up to this one brother.