Channel: Hasib Noor
Shaykh Hasib Noor speaks about marriage and what Islam says about how men and women should interact.
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Rahim Salam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh it's your host Chabad. Welcome back to another m feed podcast handle, it's going really well. And I've been enjoying just like hosting these episodes so far. And I hope you've all been enjoying it as well. feedback has been really, really amazing. In terms of who we've got for today's episode. It's a familiar face because he's already been on the podcast before. So he's basically our first recurring guest kondalilla none other than Of course, she has ignored all the way once again back in the UK, coming from the blesser city of Medina. So now it comes to light if
you miss this too much, so you had to be back over say you need to get British citizenship.
Just enjoying it handily, like good stuff. I was just actually gonna say because you joined us, you know, quite a while back Now, last time you were here. And that time we spoke about something a bit different, which was about our total and ultimate history and everything else. So of course, for those who are tuned in, make sure you check out episode eight, with Shea Hasib To find out more about that. But today's discussion is going to be like completely different. Right? Maybe it's it's linked with haleema
Yeah, there's some crossover. But yeah, I think, especially this time, now that you're here in the UK, a lot of events that you've done, something that you've been speaking about a lot, is just to do with like, marriage relationships, gender interaction, it's like what most people call like hot topics, everyone's talking about it. And I think especially like it doesn't, doesn't like it's not kind of like restricted to the UK anywhere in the world. In the West.
There's this like struggle, especially that young Muslims are facing
in the day and age of you could say like, a mixture of things like social media, like hollywood, bollywood, you know, you've got like, like, pornography society, and like, you know, over sexualized and objectification, all of these things like mix and match, right?
All of these put together, and then you've got this struggle with people who are like, trying to find someone to, for example, get married to. And then along the way, there's so many struggles might be culture, it might be just like spiritual struggles, like lowering the gaze and gender interaction, stuff like that. So I guess like, I mean, it to kind of fit all of that in, in this episode is gonna be a bit of a struggle. But let's just take it all the way from the beginning, starting from, like, Why Why do you think so many people are struggling to get married, or, you know, to kind of like overcome these obstacles, we could say, let's, let's maybe start with that.
With regards to obviously, the struggles, just the fact that the struggle is real, because obviously love and interaction and finding a mate, a person that you're going to be with for the rest of your life is a natural thing. So obviously, naturally, every it's not just a community thing, where you can say, okay, the Muslims are suffering this in the UK, or in Australia, or Nigeria, or in America, but it's something that every individual has to deal with. So, essentially, it's something that, you know, you'll see patterns have repeated no matter where people are on this earth. And globalization has really affected everybody. So the same, you know, patterns and struggles we're seeing is Paula,
I'll meet people from Indonesia, I was in Malaysia, and I'm literally counseling, Malaysian, most Muslim, never been to the west suffering from the same kind of issues. And same kind of struggles, literally, culture in Malaysia. You know, for those of you listening from Malaysia, Mashallah, like, Dell, Dell recognized some of the same struggles on the same problem. So the struggles are obviously going to be generally the same and then specific, obviously, to the time and place. But just because love and finding love and relationship that is lasting in a society of hookup culture, that's ultimately the problem here. We have basically cheapened the institution of marriage, we have
cheapen the idea of, of being with one person, we have kind of like let go of the principles of what it means to find somebody that you can invest in, and they can invest in you and complete you and they complete, you complete them. And that's kind of what Islam taught us for a very long time. But it also had an infringement of it to where people thought that the Islamic kind of concept of finding the right person became impractical. Right? And that idea of like, Well, how do you go about it the right way, it had all these cultural like, caveats, and, you know, twists and turns to the point where people like, you know, what, I'm just gonna do it my way, whatever way I see fit. And
that led to him obviously, to a number of mistakes, and people then lead to heartbreak lead to cynicism, and maybe other kind of bad, bad types of habits and things like that. So that's the thing. So I mean, what like, an argument would be from many, like Muslims, young Muslims, whatever age they are, because it's not actually restricted to young Muslims, you'll find, you know, people who are even in their 30s 40s
I struggle with this. But like, what if they argue and just say, look?
Things I've just become so complicated, like my understanding, like a person's personal understanding of religion and, and how things work or culture, for example, right? It's made things so rigid. And to me, it's made things so difficult. Like, what do I then do? Like? Do we just blame it on religion? Do we blame it on site to do? Do you blame it on culture? How would we kind of, like speak to those types of people and kind of, you know, respond to them? Okay. So it's a very, very good follow up. And the idea is that yes, there are people that blamed straight religion. And they're, they're even, they call themselves Muslim reformers. Literally, that's if you go online,
Muslim reformers, that title that they kind of like refer themselves to, as we need to reform the entire faith, it's the faith is the problem, the way the faith has spoken about women, the way the faith has spoken about the interaction between a husband and wife and what that should be. So they've kind of like completely said, No, the the religion is the problem itself, we have to admit to that there's people who believe this. And obviously, there's a larger portion, these these people honestly don't have traction in the community. So giving them kind of like any kind of error. Sometimes it's counterintuitive, and you know that I mean, they're all they're all on social media.
So it's basically opportunists who have been given money. And kind of like literally the Patreon accounts in this kind of negative kind of perspective, but they they take some real problems and things that the community has neglected and taking it to unfortunately, wrong conclusions. So, we have to the first thing I have to do is recognize the problems, what are the what are the real problems, the real problems are there is unfortunate practice of Islam by cultural infringement, that has impeded people's ability to find a person to marry gender interaction imposition on sexist or patriarchal or you can even say misogynistic understandings of, of the faith. That is not true,
right. At the same time, we have adopted on the other side of the coin, we have adopted maybe Western Western cultural hegemony, when it comes to our understanding of our faith as well, where we're applying our faith under the lens of Western culture to acquiesce. Instead of saying, Listen, how can Islam cater to some solving some more problems you're trying to like? Almost like force those kind of cultural standards onto Islam, like projecting it. So the idea is, we talked about this even Islamic history.
We're kind of colonized and our mindset were colonized by village Islam, and were colonized by the western cultural hegemony ideas. And both of them are problematic. What do I mean by village Islam, the idea of the post colonial kind of transformation period that we talked about in the last podcast and how it influenced the decimation of our education systems. And it led to an infringement of culture because of lack of education. So when there's no education, what do people refer to back to their roots? And that transition period has like really seeped into our society, as well as, you know, people taking 14th century legal terminology, legal texts, judicial legal books, yeah. And
trying to apply their lives through that lens. Which is like, that's the whole problem. Like, you know, we did a marriage seminar, yes. Two days.
You know, one day after the other, Nick Jaco, and like we would, we had, like over 100 people show up the first day in London, and you could see the diversity of people, you could see that one of the problems that that they have is everyone thought we're gonna talk about like the fear of marriage. Yeah. Right. Like defined to mean, it's laid out? What are the rights? These are the roles, right? That's it like kind of thing? Yeah. And you remember that there's a brother to ask straight up, like, what are you going to talk about the rights of the husband and the rights of the wife. And we're like, this is the whole problem. You're looking at the whole legal terminology of a
relationship that's supposed to be organic. So a new era sauce was set up, and that's like the hot kind of like the whole thing that that is founded on this entire discussion on the prophesized lm when he spoke about these things, he spoke about the most natural and organic way. And one of the best ways we can actually start that discussion of like the solutions of problems, real problems that the profit lesson dealt with, look at the profit last time when a man came to him, he said, you know, sort of la police officer now, I have been, you know, charged to take care of an orphan girl. And she's has two proposals. One of them is a very rich well off man. And another one is a young you
know, both of them are young, he's less well off, he's poor. He doesn't have that much money, meaning he could be middle or lower middle class, etc, in that time. And he said, I want her to marry the rich well off man because you know, like, ultimately, that's what kind of people want, they want good and for their for the person that it's like a daughter to him. So he said yes. What do you think? What should we do have a subtle setup, the prophets I said, I said something so profound, and beautiful and shows you somebody who has like the ability to see and have foresight and to
Tune into things that exist without him having been told. And the big sort of ceram. He said that there's nothing better for two people that love one another except marriage.
And this has never been a new measure. Look at, look at the beautiful nature of this, the prophet is also set up. He tuned in to the fact that this woman and that man have had some kind of dealing with one another that they've met one another, they felt falling in love. They've gotten to the point where they've they've comfortable to marry, and the prostitute didn't ask the details of any of that. But he tuned into it and said, Look, they want to get married now. And he didn't say, Okay, what happened when you were How do they meet? What was the interaction? Like? Did he ask those questions? No, he simply asked, okay, these people they want to marry. There's nothing better than
two people that are religiously suitable another narration of it religiously suitable and compatible in their flock in their in their character, except that love one other except marriage. So there's two narrations of both of them explain the details of the situation. The idea being is the prophesize Emma dealt with a reality. Yeah. Right. And he, he understood and had the foresight to see what the problems were at that time, in his in among his people. And I think we need to do the same thing we need to look at look what's what are the problems? And what are those? The sources of those problems? And then what does Islam have to say in solving those problems and how people have
misunderstood them. So I guess what we can learn from that narration, which means maybe many people, the the unexposed to this idea is that, like, maybe just having those feelings, like is a natural thing. And that's exactly what the process is some kind of, you know, he understood from from these two individuals, right? But don't you feel like a lot of people they just kind of think that you know, even that is wrong, like to have that feeling, right? Meaning that urge to, to then you know, fall in love, we could see right in inverted commas and then wanting to get married to someone. Right? So what why is that kind of like, Why do people have this misunderstanding? Why Why don't we
look at these a hadith? Because there seem to be many generations, not just this one, right? This is just one that existed and maybe Okay, fair enough. But there's so many, like marriage happened, right? He made on different occasions, that companions, the married, and I guess we're gonna come to Medina society. That's another discussion we're gonna have. But why do people like think even that is wrong, because you're just taking away like a natural human. Like, you know, emotion. Again, I think it's because of the circumstances in which our parents, maybe our grandparents, maybe there are great grandparents, lit and married. And honestly, we don't remember it has a lot to do with
history as well, like a plug my history, but the idea being is that transformation, the post colonial era, people literally weren't survival mode, man, we were completely decimated, our lands, our resources, everything's gone. So what are people marrying for? They're literally marrying for security, and insurance, almost like your children are what you're looking forward to take care of you. And that's why To this day, that's the same mentality we have, like a child, I'm when I grow old, my child is gonna take care of me. So that's gonna lead on to now modern problems of now co happening with your parents with your in laws, etc. So you understand the same mentality has been
like kind of remained the same for 80 years, 100 years of that of that institution of marriage, which was for survival. We know this word culture. I mean, every time we mentioned, it seems to be in a negative light. Seems like, you know, as soon as you hit coaches, like, Oh, that's negative, right? So do the, like, the new generation in the West is like culture, forget this, like baggage. Right? Right. We have to like, hold on to other things. So but then there's there is this like, would you say like Earth, which we would say like we could translate as custom maybe? Right? Is that the same as what we're talking about here? Because I lost one, so to speak somebody in the Quran
when he says like Bill Maher off same route, you know, according to the customer, the people. So is that the same thing? Would you differentiate? Well, that's the beautiful thing. I mean, like you mentioned, a lot of times when he talks about a lot of the issues of marriage and hold on itself, because that's our starting point. Yeah.
He mentioned that a lot of the issues with love and when people the rights and responsibilities and the protocols of how people go about their marriage, build models, it's based according to the customs of the people and the law, they didn't give you like a how to dummies guide, the exact verbatim of like, you have to go 123 by going into the entire process, he left a lot of it to the customs of the people. So we have to understand when we talk about culture, and when especially in this conversation, we're talking about cultural infringement at odds with Islam. There's no such thing as a cultural society. You don't live in the absence of culture, even in Britain or America or
Nigeria or Malaysia or Norway or wherever you're from. Right. The idea being is that you're always going to adopt a certain level of culture that is going to be seen within the society especially when you intermarry into the cult into the culture of the of the society itself. So there is no such thing as absence of culture. And that's why the prophets of Allah, he mentioned among the
Many practices in Islam that take into account the culture and the context. And there's a great principle if it's called Adam Hakuna, right? That the the norms and the practices of the people and their culture is taken into account in rulings. Hmm, very interesting. See, see, that's the point I was trying to get out because so many people would just either because there's different extremes, right? Either you just go old for culture, or I like to leave Islam. Or like, you know, people are like, no, forget that culture and then just go for Islam. But then I guess there is a balance, right? Yeah, there's definitely a balance. Right. Okay, great. Another word that you mentioned was
compatibility. Right. But then we've also said that we don't kind of follow everything to the tee when it comes to like, you know, legalities and tax etc. So would you say like, even when it comes to compatibility, has that also, like kind of progressed and changed over time? Like, would you still kind of look at, okay, like, I'm from a certain place, she's from a certain place to look at that.
Southside of London and,
but like, even in terms of like job nowadays, right, in terms of all of these things like, right, how would you kind of view that in light of the day and age that we're living in? Okay, so one of the things that for sure, we have to put on the table is that people have pigeonholed the idea of the institution of marriage of it has to be arranged. Okay. It has to be it has to go through the you know, the Auntie circle or the mom. And this is this is problematic, this is seriously problematic. That is defined, but sorry, can you just define arranged marriage first, for the right, good.
casone people could arrange marriage obviously has a wide, wide definition of what you consider arranged arranged meaning, especially when it comes from from, like, for example, people who are not Muslim, and they see arranged marriage, they think something's being forced. Yeah, of course, we're not talking about that, from a Muslim perspective, many people kind of get the general idea. It can either be you, you you are introduced to somebody through a protocol. Either your parents know somebody, and they say, hey, what it'd be nice if you meet that person, this girl or that guy. And then you go ahead and you meet each other, and you have some form of exchange to see if you're
compatible, and there's chemistry or whatever. And then that leads you to get married. Now, a lot of people think that this is bad, or this is good. Or this is the only way and this is this shouldn't this shouldn't be the way Yeah, both of them are hung. But again, we're talking about, it's a law lifted open. Now look at the first Hadith I mentioned to you. It's talking about two people that had obviously, they spoke to one another, they found compatibility and chemistry. So Islam allows that spectrum, we have to understand this. The idea is a lot did not enforce on us to follow a protocol a lot, left it to us and gave us statute of limitations, limitations that protect and preserve
people's honor, protecting people's people's feelings, as well as the emotional and physiological psychological states, when they're so invested in a relationship, and all of a sudden, it's not there. So when it comes to the idea of compatibility and chemistry, we have to understand that this in our day, and age is something that's very important. We're no longer in like in the vast majority of the of the of the world where Muslims live in Western societies or in what we can say developed societies, or developing societies, for those of you who are Nigeria, for those of you who are in many countries in Africa are becoming developing societies, the Asian countries like India and
Pakistan are becoming developing societies. Malaysia is a developing society is considered to be right now, as the fastest growing economy in the world, Turkey's like number 15, is coming up like so even in the Middle East. We're now facing issues where we do, we're out of survival mode. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the vast, large portions of the oma where people are still in survival mode. Yeah, right. But the funny thing is, check this out. I know for a fact, the words that I'm saying right now is being listened to somebody in like the fields of a country. Look at the amazing thing of globalization. So some of the things we were going to mention, obviously may not
fit with the context that you're here, you have to understand that the idea of this discussion of compatibility and chemistry and the rights and finding the right person, and marriage has to fit in your context, in your context, and you have to assess your situation. So when it comes to compatibility and chemistry,
what are the protocols that are known in your in your society? You know, is it something that is readily acceptable, is it not? And why isn't it? It's a very complex discussion, especially when you're talking to the world. LP, right. So we can't we can't we can't generalize. I want to make that very, very clear. We're not characterizing and we're not generalizing and stereotyping. Yeah. So these are very important to kind of like get across and maybe we can talk about some of the details. So in terms of the the lead up to marriage, right, because this is where most of the struggle will be found. And once you've found someone and you get mad, I guess that's a whole
different kind of, you know, struggling, like I guess a main struggle that we're focusing on is trying to like actually
No getting to know someone or finding someone in the first place and then marrying them, right? So just for example, some of those, like struggles would be, like just that interaction in the first place trying to find someone in the first place. And I know like we've been discussing as well how, like this whole discussion on like, gender interaction has been really like, like, we're quite obsessive, unhealthy, like obsession with this whole thing. Yeah. So I mean, just even away from the context of marriage, right? Because that's a different thing. In general, like our day to day interactions with the opposite sex, the opposite gender, right? Especially as Muslims as people who
take our faith seriously and what, you know, our our kind of like, faith tells us, right? Like, what would you say? What would you just say? Like, just keep things natural? Like, why do we have to focus on this thing so much? When you go to work, for example, you're gonna have, like, you know, male, female colleagues, right, right. You're in the outside world, you're just you're commuting every single day. Like you're studying whatever it is at University College, you're gonna come across like people of the opposite gender, right? So like, as Muslims, why do you think a was so kind of like, focus on this? Because yes, there is an important element to it. As we're not saying
disregarding All right. And then like be what would your just general advice be? Okay, so first of all, I think we have an unhealthy obsession with this entire topic, the idea of that we've focused on it so much, that even the profit that is outside of didn't have that much focus on it, it's become like a pillar of Islam, in some people's circles, to the extent that they like Be very careful to the extent that your entire email will be lost. And this is very dangerous. What has happened is that unhealthy infatuation with it has caused an extreme, and that is the hyper sexualization of thinking of the opposite gender. So literally, any interaction with the opposite
gender has become almost like a near Xena experience. This is not the case, the prophet is also set up this is very clear in the time of the Sahaba. No one can say that this was specific or was not the Prophet sallallahu Sallam for example, with a worker Omar will go to the home of Abu Haytham with a handle on slightly, this isn't sort of intended with the anishinabe he would go to his house to visit, knock on the door, the wife would open the wife will hate them. And when they are about to enter, she's like, Oh, he's not here. Please come sit in the living room. He's gonna he's just getting something he'll be honest with him. Look at that, look at the beautiful, like normal
interaction between this situation. But somehow along the way, what we've made out of it is just completely not acceptable, even islamically, we might take something out of context, one particular situation and completely take it out of the, the, the objective of what the prophets have said, Well speaking about, or the context and specific practices.
This is just one example. You have another example of cinematic fantasy that will will rattle the alongside on who, right who he literally went to visit who wanted to visit his friend, he comes into his home, he's at home, his wife allows him to enter the house and says please sit inshallah he'll be he'll come. And because he's so close to the family. He asked, wondering what the situation of the house is so shabby. Like, why is it so why there's such an estate of poverty? So he asked her Is everything okay? In the house everything? Are you guys in ok state and this righteous woman's have had a look at how noble she answers. He doesn't say okay, Bismillah you want to know what the
problems are yellow? Okay, then she starts going off? And no, of course not. She It was a noble interaction. And she said, Your brother is not a person that loves things of the dunya. materially, yeah, so he sat with him. And he asked him like, what the problem is, and the whole discussion when he came, there wasn't like a soft little law, how can you come to my house? And I'm not, you know what I mean? Like, imagine in our time, some people have these kind of like, hyper, you know, like ideas of what it means to separate the genders entirely. And we have to just be honest, and I know we're gonna probably discuss this. But the prophetic society was a society that was homogenous,
women, women were warriors, even Omar model, the lone tadhana fought with the prophets, like she defended with her life, but also lost them. Literally, if it wasn't for this woman, the Prophet isonzo sam would have been killed. She literally jumped in front of the Prophet and fought and defended him. So this is a warrior woman, she fought also in the Battle of, of Yemen and with with the armies of one of the lowest add on Whoa, etc. So this is a warrior woman, there's scholars among the Sahaba yet, yeah, there were other you know, situations in the time of the process and more women were homogeneously mixed in the society. There were there were business women, there are
people who had like, how do you juggle the load? tadhana. Right. They had they dealt in the markets, the profit slice them even gave an entire
day for women, literally, the entire mission of the Prophet would be filled with women so we could give them access to education and access to counseling, access to ask questions, learn more about their faith, whereas we're like in a state worse upon a law there's, there's Muslim societies, we have to admit, they're like banning women from learning paths to sixth grade. what's what's happening in a lot of stuff, it's not acceptable. This is not acceptable at all. This is not what our faith teaches.
And we and you know, you did a research on this, which is the
role of women of women in the prophetic society the prophet SAW I said his message did not have a barrier between men and women until 1995. Yeah, so there was no separation even between them. I'm talking about at the movie film tape that we think about going to set Now that doesn't mean there should be no segregation at all ever, you know, in our context, injustice in our societies, but the but the idea of segregating our Sajid is something else for it Islam till 1995 in the profits, Mr. Yeah. Okay. And that's, that's, of course, segregation is a slightly different issue. But there's a lot of you've been to the UK quite a few times now and in as many many masajid that don't even allow
access to women in the first place.
And, you know, I know it's a it's a slightly different topic and issue in and of itself, but and sometimes we might have legitimate reasons, you know, for example, like funding just don't have enough space. But there are also many, like mosques that meet
but they don't facilitate for women with you know, whatever reasons they have. Yeah. But it seems very, very clear from prophetic society in the in the MSL.
Yeah, it was open to women. And like you said, he gave access to them, like he taught them even an entire day. And even afterwards, like, I'm sure this isn't stopped when the provinces and passes away, of course, throughout the times with the whole affair, and even outside of Medina, right in other places, Damascus, you know, Egypt, etc. Like, it's open. And even until today, it's funny, because when you go to like Turkey today, yeah, like, it's still the case you go to like, Egypt, for example, is still the case, right? But it seems like here in the UK context and other muscles, well, they just, they just don't allow that space. So do you think that's going to have a detrimental
effect, especially in the dangers that we're living in? Because if a woman can't go to the masjid, she can't access any mom, she can't learn? Like, remember, we had that discussion of that, like so many sisters that have said to me, like they live in
certain cities within the UK, right? That don't allow women like yeah, at all 99% of the mosque do not allow women, no space, even though they're huge mosques like, yeah, huge amounts, and they have the money. They have everything there. And I sort of told me like, it was only up until recently, like they're in their mid 20s. Late 20s. Yeah, just up until recently, they went to the first of a prayer. Yeah, just because there was this whole eat in the park. The first generation, the first generation, right? So imagine 2030 years of their life has gone, they've never heard it. He told me that I've never had any connection with the masjid. And just like, perchance they happen to like,
have that desire. But there's so many, like sisters out there that probably just have become so detached from the region, and the deen and the faith, because of this reason. So what are your thoughts? So look, this actually completely has to do with the entire topic. Because look, if this if the place of education about our faith, is disenfranchising people, not only that dissident disenfranchising that entire section of society, where they're not learning about Islam in a relevant, relatable, practical way. That's understanding of their context, then what are you going to do, you're going to have people just check out, you know, and honestly, what it takes is just
people to have courage. We need our moms in this country, particularly in this context that we understand, as well as other places just have the courage. Like, for me, I'll be honest with you, I mean, this is this is my personal stance, I don't go to a machine that doesn't have space for it.
That's just my personal personal stance. You know why? Because to be honest with you, if you don't start making a stance, when is the change going to come? Unfortunately, we speak we've spoken to people where they're like, you know, we just have slowly changed will slow change, till when, till a woman is in her 30s she's never had, she's never gone to an adult. Well, and the prophets last time, you know, what he said about that? He said, Let the women who are not even praying, come out of their homes and attend and witness what the salah and the DA Allah, this is a How do you thought almost I sell it? So hey, like, What do you want? I mean, to the point that we are I mean, all those
people who are just angry about people saying patriarchal understanding, interpretation, massage, I mean, this is it, this is this is literally it, we have to understand that there is an infringement of an ideology, which is foreign to Islam, and it's disenfranchising people, we have to, we have to have the courage to admit this. We have to have the courage to do something, to petition to bring like 3000 Imams, put them on a list and say, Listen, you in our community have to make this change. And there is a slow change happening. Yeah, but that changes to like,
I'll give you an example. I mean, it's just, it was just something like To this day, I see the image and it's just hurt. It hurts me. It's that image of the sister in London men are like somewhere in the UK. She's praying in the snow. Because the minister told her there's like, oh, sisters, it's not their day or something weird like that. And she's praying outside in the snow. This is absolutely ridiculous, bro. This is like, against manhood aka intellect understanding humanity for the love of a lot like so this is
An extreme, and people have made it a norm. Now, going back to the topic we're talking about, imagine disenfranchising not only just women, youth, entire generation of people, we're just like, this is not practical to my life. I know there's people that are listening to this, and they're like, Oh, my God, are you serious? You know why? Because we're privileged. We in America, like we'd never heard of some of these problems, maybe, or maybe in Canada, or in Norway and Sweden. But then when you look at the realities of the 99% of the rest of the world, you you're going to judge from your like, elite, privileged lens. Yeah, you know, let's work for solutions. Right. So go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah, no, I was gonna say, I mean, it leads to like a funny story that I also heard from, let's say that there's one machine in particular in the UK. And this man, he came, and he actually brought his wife with him. They were traveling, so it wasn't there, look at it, look, and missed it. Right. So he didn't know that this machine obviously didn't, you know, facilitate for for women. So he came in with his wife. And then there was a brother from the Mr. There.
That was like, What was going on? Like, bringing an old one. And he was like, Look, we're just kind of traveling. We're just passing by, we have to praise her. Like she has to offer us a lot as well. It's not like he's a Muslim. Yeah, he's just for men. Right? We don't have a space. So can we just pray the mustard? And it was quiet. It was no prayer time. Right? It wasn't a it wasn't a time, right. It was just in the middle of the day. Yeah. And the guys I look, we don't allow a woman to pray this question. So so the man was like, okay, and, and the way he was even treating the woman, this comes back to gender interaction. Yeah. He wasn't even like looking at her. You just completely
ignore that. Like, she didn't exist. Right. So it was just like, just, you know, so so the guy was like, please, and he pleaded with him. And then finally, the guy said, Okay, fine. Look, it's the middle of the day, quickly, like, you know, pray like your custard and as quickly as possible and get out basically, right. So, the other day, he allowed them to pray in the end, and they quickly offered this and they left. And then they went to the shop, just kind of next to the mustard, right? To buy a few things. And that same brother walks in, to the shop, right? And he sees the shopkeeper obviously, he must know her is a female, right? And honestly, like, etc. And he's like, Hey,
hey, how's it going? You know, I like like, interacting with her on another level where in the, in the space of the machine which is like, the best place in the in the sight of Allah right? With a sister who wanted office. I was like, completely ignore that. This is like for me when I heard that story. It's funny. Yeah, but it's sad at the same time is like, the Why Why? Why do we do that? Like, it's the reality. I mean, look, lack of education. 100% we haven't studied the clo, we haven't studied the prophetic society. And there's something that's, that's my focus to bring to understanding what the prophetic society was. Because Listen, when you stop a sooner that has
existed for for like, over a millennia and a half Habibi, almost, right? Like the woman having an active role in the mission of the prophets, why Selim, but due to some kind of weird belief, or reasoning that you come up with, you're, you're actually causing a much greater harm. That's people's lack of education of a snap, and then that's going to trickle down to everything else.
As we know, like, the profit, subtle items, Masjid was a place where literally, this is a Hadith, the Prophet says, I'm sending the message. Women or their men were there. They were sitting, you know, in their spaces, listening and benefiting from muscles, I said, and a woman gets up in the masjid and says, Yes, hello, will you marry me? I'm like, to that extent, and we can't be shy from these things. This is a Hadith of the Prophet and the Prophet. So I said him, it doesn't say anything. Before. He says something. One of the Sahaba gets up and says, I'll marry her jasola.
Like, to us, that's even crazy. This is the this is the prophetic message. You know what I mean? Some people say, Oh, if there's a bear, if there's no barrier, then men will look at women. Like, look at the extremes, we're thinking about people coming in for rectification of their hearts. Right. Okay. They're gonna look at each other. You know, God forbid, somebody decides to marry. Yeah. So how the law, you know what I mean? So, thinking of because of an extreme, they applied a unfortunate, unfortunately, a fifth principle, wrongly. And that is they say said desire, which means to prevent harms from happening. This is by the way of the weakest principles. And fifth to
apply. Really, yeah. It's the weakest among them that have, you know what I mean, it's somebody who's not even like from a particular method they're applying because they don't know their own method thinks it's weak. to derive a law based on eight suppose it harm that doesn't exist. There's no there's no talent law. There's no fundamental law, as you know, for student knowledge, how come a lot of means this by though is going to happen? 100% and then the law comes through where it prevents it. So this has spread to such an extent unproportional amounts. And just to give you another example, from the process, lm msgid there's also Sahabi, who literally liked a woman from
the Sahaba yet, and what he would do is while he was praying, he would look at her from under his legs.
Hi. So I've had a lot, this is just the reality. What are the process I'm doing? He put the Great Wall of China between the men and women? He No, of course not. He he corrected the action of the person saying, How do you know like,
maybe I saw him in his matters in his matters and his lessons, I will come up with a subtle setup. He corrected that particular action. And example, we also gave a follow up bus in Manhattan. There's a woman that comes in ask the process of a question. And father finds her beautiful, this is his cousin. He's a young man, he's not married. So what is he doing? He finds a beautiful woman in front of him. And he's staring at her. So what are the process I would say, Stop through law, Fear Allah, it was smilla Al Hamdulillah. And he starts right now, of course, I saw some did not do that. He knows that this is a natural human human interaction. So what he does is he gently puts his hand on
his face, and Moses face out of the way while he's still talking to the woman. And this is something so beautiful, the prophets I said to him, he acknowledged the woman.
We don't even acknowledge me acknowledges that, and you're telling me, what's that country? You're the Kazakhstan where the? There's like, Yeah, because the sun is this young brother basically, that we studied together at university. And yeah, I mean, it's part of like, maybe it's part of the culture, right? It's just that like, when a woman Muslim culture, but look how amazing it exactly right? So when a woman comes in, like, and it could be someone that he's known for a long time. So it's not even like, you know, it's like the the head of the course. Right? So you have to show respect, right is literally like, one of his colleagues came in, she was Muslim as well. And they've
known each other for they've been doing the muscles together for a long time. But I've realized over the the past few months, that every time a woman walks into the room, he stands up for them. Every time it doesn't matter. Like if it's a new person, or if it's like someone who's known for a while we look at the beauty. Yeah, it's like, there's a beautiful, like, gesture, right? to stand up for the woman and to just show like to acknowledge that Yo, like, you're real, and I'm speaking to you, and you know, like, I respect you, right? But I feel like we're losing so much of that 100%. And today with Muslims, we should be kind of leading the way with so how does it go back into the
discussion we had is hyper sexualized, gentlemen. So we're literally, you can talk to Jennifer on the outside as a Hey, Jen, how's your day? And when it comes to inside, you know, like, a CEO or whoever, and the question is like, is like now a threat to your man immediately because her existence, this is this is extremism, this is not allowed. I mean, honestly, this is this is the language I'm using is not exaggerated, it can lead to extremism, and hyper sexualizing. It also Unfortunately, when a person comes actually to having the relationship where you need to get to notice somebody to find the compatibility, you can do it, you know, and you won't be able to find
the right conversations to have because you're so rigid, and your understanding of what it means even when you're looking for marriage, the panel laleli. So among that is that, you know, first and foremost, we need to readjust deconstruct all of these constructs. All of these constructs, there's deconstruct the whole thing, take make your mind, like a clean slate, and then educate yourself. Educate yourself on the prophetic society, educate yourself on the profitable items, dealings with women, the Sahaba, yet their role, and there's a really good series of I think women's history in Islam by shakaama nadwi. He did it. He has a 13 volume work on just the role of muhaddith that alone
1000 female scholars, so he talked about the women, women's roles in Islamic history, there's also another set on women in the time of the prophets totalize Mm hmm. are wildly amazing, and are wildly sham. Yeah, I think I Shambhala I will be forgetting his last name. But anyway, he has something.
And he did a he did a very good CD set with regards to the women's assignment and their role in the society and helps us deconstruct some of our own. Really like it's patriarchy, it's toxic kind of patriarchy that doesn't exist. So that's first and foremost. And then when it comes to, you know, finding the person, before we ask, where's the one for me ask yourself, are you the one for somebody else? Are you have you, you know, fixed and qualified yourself to be someone else is a spouse in a relationship. So before you talk about that, like, what are the shortcomings you have? What are the intentions you have in getting married? Is it to fulfill like the process that I set myself in in a
perfect marriage completes your deen? So fear Allah in the in the in the half that you're going to be involved in? And what does this mean? The idea is that marriage
allows you another set of eyes, another person's experience to help complete your shortcomings your entire life. You're lonely, you're single, right? Where you're trying to fix yourself in and adjust yourself based on your own experiences. So what does marriage do? It helps you complete yourself with another person's experiences of fulfilling your shortcomings. What is the process
At the end of it, which we forget, fear a lot, or have be conscious of a lot in that half. Yeah. Yeah, very true. And I'm really glad we kind of discussed that side of things. So hopefully maybe for a lot of, you know, people who are tuned in it's, it's kind of like, it's gonna open up the eyes, and many people are gonna be like, wow, this is the first time we've ever had, you know, this decider of things, because we've just grown up with a particular understanding. So I'm really glad we discussed that. But also, I think it's important just to kind of balance things as well, because we can have an interaction and everything else. And, you know, we can't kind of ignore and turn a
blind eye to the fact that people do take advantage right beforehand. And there are cases where, you know, things do go horribly wrong. So I guess that's why there are certain measures in place, you know, industry are. So if you are interacting with someone, then
for example, holla, right, you have like this whole seclusion, I know, you can kind of elaborate on the definition of that, because it doesn't just mean like you're on a bus, and then, like a public transport, and then there's a woman on there. So you have to like Move the carriage on the trailer. So we can kind of like discuss that as well, we'll come to it.
But we've already mentioned because of this, like hyper sexualized society, and maybe social media and all of these, like crazy things that we see online, on on TV, etc, maybe that, you know, that it does lead to objectification, right, and not just male females, but even the other way around as well. Right. So I guess my, my main question now is islamically. What are the measures in place? Like, for example, we spoke about work, your female colleague, right doesn't mean you ignore her, you still kind of speak to her. So does that mean like now you can just have banter go out? And yeah, like, let's let's kind of speak about the realities. So when it comes to obviously, we talked
about statute of limitations. Allah subhanaw taala, when he said certain limitations for us, again, the wisdom and objective objectivity behind that. The idea of can men and women be friends? Yeah, is a huge discussion in social media among people, etc. The idea is, some people will say, Well, I, my entire, you know, university years and my work colleague, like I've had male or female friends, and there's nothing ever happened to happen to you. What about the rest of the world? Yeah, right. And I'll give you just one example. And everybody will use anecdotal evidence, they'll use their own personal experience. But there was, for example, like a guy and a girl who Muslim they were, they
were in the Muslim Student Association University, they were known to just talk to one another all the time. They would just like be talking in university, etc. So everybody kind of knew, like, they're, they're talking, whatever that means, right? Yeah. At the end of the four years, the girl is expecting, so how to like, the guy's gonna propose to me. So when the university ended, he proposed to her friend. Wow. And it shocked her. Yeah. So she went to him and was like, you know, what's up? Like, and he's like, well, I've always thought of us as a sister.
I guess what happened? Because everybody in university, everybody in society kind of knew, they were like, just talking, none of the guys whatever approach again, because they were like, okay, hold off, like, This situation is what it is. So, this is an example to show you like, Look, there has to be a sense of professionalism. There isn't just like, an open ended. You know, like, let's just banter Let's hang out late till night. And, you know, let's go out on what's called collective group dates and things like that, you know, we have to have some level of decency. You know, there's times where there's a professional setting, or there's a meeting of some sort, or there's the idea of, you
know, just not going to extremes. Yeah, it's very simple. Religion is a balance thing. And when people start to infringe their idea, like for example, you have a family event, you have a family outing, people are gathered together, this is like, you know, what I mean, everybody's with their families, these kind of things is okay. It's not like a massive issues where you know, how often will happen or things like that, when you are very cognizant of your intentions. Now, one of the things that we also go into an extreme with
is the idea that when you are going to engage with discussion with another woman, then what are the levels of seclusion right. So for example, we talked about hunnewell seclusion, this is one of the statute of limitations, a man should not be with another woman that he has the like, he has interest in her, do you understand that may lead to some form of forbidden relationships, something like that. So again, this is the general rule but this is not because you want a job interview, it's a woman boss, and I got Christopher law can be with you in some room and etc. You know, take that as another principle and fifth called hasn't had a thought or any letter on this specific situation or
an exceptional situation doesn't make the general rule you understand. And our entire lives are sometimes you know, filled with these kind of exceptional cases. Now, the interesting thing is after like the me to movement now especially Yeah, I have literally talked to lawyers who have said to their like high end
Wall Street that never be alone in a meeting with a woman. And you're like, Oh, yeah, Shetty
But the idea is, look, this is these are like, this is a Muslim. Sorry, excuse me. This is a non Muslim lawyer telling Wall Street like executives, Mike Pence as well. So like, crazy, right? Like,
yeah, you're right, but look like so yes, it's a position of man that could abuse his power, or like, you know, somebody could say something along the lines of, you know what I mean? So the idea being is like, protect both people. And that's why the best thing is to have like transparency. You know what I mean? There's a, there's video cameras, there's literally I know people that have they record their sessions, say, Listen, this is for my safety, your safety.
This gives the agency to the woman shows respect to her, does, door's always open, like this is external factors that I'm talking about. You don't have control some of these factors. If you don't have control of the factor, don't infringe your conceptualization of seclusion into a scenario, which is gonna cause you massive, massive difficulty and hardship for no reason. Allah subhanaw taala Shetty is not that rigid. You know what I mean? That's why these principles are important. It allows you to live Islam organically, naturally. So when there is a exceptional case, move on with your life, what do people do, like they reflect on it for 10 years, suffered a lot What happened?
Like, come on, man, you went to a job interview you deal with, especially when you're at work, a lot of people when they have these conceptualizations they don't baby deal with real society, or they deal with a bubbled conservative kind of environment that literally is not cognizant of the rest of the world. So we have to have like real life. Yeah. A theology of dealing with our realities.
So that's, that's, that's interesting. I wanted to touch on really quickly,
just moving away now from the whole interaction or coming back to marriage, right? Because that was more general in terms of your day to day life. So coming back to marriage and and relationships, of course, now, there's going to be a case where it's no longer just just general chat with your colleagues and stuff like right now you actually have to chat to someone who you actually genuinely interested in. Yeah, so there's gonna be other measures in place, and there's gonna be different rulings that now are in the picture. So let's just kind of discuss that really quickly, in terms of like, the struggles that many people would face now like, Okay, I'm interested in someone, am I
allowed to, like, you know, speak to her now? Am I allowed to, like meet up with with him or her? Sorry, I keep seeing her but like, you know, from both from both sides of the picture, like, what are the limitations? Because I know, we've already said in terms of like, the process of didn't inquire and go too much into it. Right. So I know, we don't want to go too much into it either. But
we're asking questions.
But, but in general, meaning, like, just because I'm sure a lot of people are struggling with this. Yeah. They're wondering about it. I appreciate wondering Yeah. So just like a really quick kind of like overview. And then we
might have my idea is, number one, the most important thing is what are the intentions of two people that are actually trying to engage with one another, like, you slide in her DMS, or she slides and you I mean, this is reality, people live in this kind of culture, right? Or contacting somebody on Facebook, or maybe approaching somebody like they met in an event or any kind of scenario, you want to think about using apps using web sites, be as broad as you want? What is the first thing you need to think about? What is your intention? What is your intention for that establishing a relationship, before even marriage is on your mind? Because Wait a minute, are you ready for marriage? That's a
separate discussion we're gonna have right now. What is your intention? What is your intention for contact? Is it truly to like you want to anchor yourself in a relationship that will lead to a marriage? Is that what your intention is, and I think the reality one of the problems is that, and I'm just gonna, like pick on guys for a little bit here is that sometimes women become involved with a man. And they think that the man will come around and his intention is going to come to marriage, like you have to build into that. Honestly, if you if any relationship that is not anchored with the idea of marriage is going to bound to eventually lead to disappointment. Marriage is the anchor of
relationships. So if you're not going into it with the same mentality as the one that you're going to be involved in, and it's not there, it's not part of like the initial even discussions of like, eventually, you know, this is this is in order for us to get to know one another, etc. And we have to go about it the right way. You know, that kind of discussion is based on your attention. So a lot of people just like, you know, they've pornography, and unfortunately obscene the relationship between a man and a woman to the kids that people just reach out to each other, and like hook up, and if it happens, dating is like, oh, I'll just try as many people as I can come across, and maybe
I'll come across somebody that's
my likings and they're in my interest, but if they're not okay, please, but then what are you doing? You're literally like, almost like giving a piece
Have yourself, you know what I mean? And it's like, We're not here to judge at all. There's no judgment on people who have passed, have dated and etc. But the idea is to counsel this problem, you know what I mean? And one of the problems in that is what Islam, you know, gives us the idea that you're sharing yourself with another person, and you want to invest in yourself and another person, and them and you and you want to take the responsibility of taking care of somebody, you know what I mean? It's not just like, oh, if it happens, it happens doesn't happen, you know, go get lost. You know, and there's a noble pursuit of love. Not just like, I'm taking something from you, or the
selfish pursuits of of what we see today. So again, don't nobody get me wrong here, because you know, any time and one sentence is off, right? Yeah. The idea being is that it's not a judgment of this issue. But what is the Islamic perspective? What is the lens behind finding somebody to marry? So again, I probably didn't answer your exact question. I'm doing that on purpose. Because I don't believe it's, it's it's the place of scholarly figures, or religious figures, to sit and outline the details of human interactions of people. This isn't how Allah did it. This isn't how not how to sort of masala cinnamon did it? He gave us general principles. But by the end of the day, what do you
say? It took a lot of stuff to be conscious of God? Like what what are you doing? Look at your intentions. Look at question what you're doing. Question What your actions are leading to? You know what I mean? So if there's not that constant check and accountability, then what are the prophets I said, and say, Look at the power of this, man, let me stay for
whoever doesn't have any shame, then let them do what they want. Not literally, like, go ahead. And the idea is, it's like you don't have shame, shame of who not shame of other people, what would they say? Well, my mom say, shame of a law first, knowing that God watches you the God consciousness factor. So spirituality so much in tied with the literal pursuit of finding the one. Right. So I hope that gives you something. Yeah, I think we need to talk about just, like just checking ourselves first before because everyone, like, you know, it's, there's so many different reasons. And we discussed, we've been discussing this over, you know, quite recently, in terms of, like, so
many reasons why people would want to get married, right? One reason is, like, you know, like escapism those 1000 people, right? Like, you know, all of these, you know, like problems going on at home, you just want to get out usually marry someone and think that's gonna solve they never felt loved from their father or mother or they the toxic negative culture of their own family, is they just want to escape from it. They want to go somewhere, like, the first guy that comes just be like, Oh, yeah, exactly. And other reasons could be just like, you know, for example,
just you see, like, stuff on TV and social media, and you just think that is it. And that's goals. And that's, you know, like, that's basically what a relationship isn't that you jump into, and then like, oh, wait a second, I'm not gonna be right off with my wife, 24. Seven, I'm actually gonna go home and follow me.
So like, I guess there's there's that as well. So what would your advice be to people who are in the process of finding someone who maybe they're looking to get married soon? What checks Should we do on ourselves first, before we even think about, you know, like jumping into a relationship and committing long term? Excellent. So four things we are talking about the first the first question every single person should ask themselves, honestly, sit down write a piece of paper, what's my intention? What's my intention is to escape? Is it because I'm lonely? Those aren't like, how is that an idea of getting into a relationship with somebody else? Yeah, there can be subsidiary
points. Number two, what are the qualities you look for in a spouse? Okay. And number three, what are the shortcomings you have that you need to work on? your spiritual state? Your physical state? Right. You know, what are the some of the things that that your character qualities are not there? All? Right, find out. That's exactly an excellent point. So financially, are you financially ready? Like, or do you have at least a strategy or plan to support this other person? I'll give you the famous story that we've been sharing is that, you know, I went to a city, and the guy comes up to me, I was like, what's up? It's just hard. It's like, what's hard? And then I realized, I'm like,
okay, what's her name? And he starts laughing. He's like, it's just difficult to struggle, whatever it is, like, What's her name? And he's like, yeah, I'm trying to get married. Okay. So what happened? He's like, well, she's from a different culture. So I thought it was a whole discussion. Yeah, she's from a different culture. The families aren't getting along, whatever. He's like, No, no, that's not the case. Okay, so what's the problem? He's like, I went and talked to her father, even as an adult, you mend up, that's what's up. Like, he came with the right intention. He spoke to her before. And then he went to the Father and was like, I want to I want to propose to your
daughter. He went about it the right way. Like I mentioned, the father was a righteous father. And it was like, Yeah, okay. He said, Okay. He's like a different culture, but his dad was okay with it. But there's a real problem with how we deal with it. I was like, what's the problem? He's like, his father said, I have to finish it.
versity and I'm like, bro, sit down. Like, please take a seat. How much? How much how many years you have left two years, like you can have two patients for two years.
In something that the Father is simply asking for financial stability. Yeah, he does not have the means to support you all, and your family doesn't have the means to support you all. So this is just reality. It's not a struggle. It's just, you're gonna be with somebody for eternity, we believe until like, eternity agenda to this world, right? And you're like, somebody's like, Oh, snap like marriage? Yeah. So like you had you have to have some patience, exercise of manhood. You know what I mean? So financial stability, important, like, what are the qualities that you need financially? the qualities of character number one problem everybody talks about is like,
anger, impatience. You know, and that leads to number four, which is communication skills, you have to develop your communication skills. When before you engage in a relationship with somebody else. Most of us we've lived in a family, some of us are isolated, insulated in that family. And what happens is the arguments you have with your, with your siblings, and the fights that you have, because siblings do crazy things, right? Or with your parents gets, and they're, like, infringing their view, in their opinion on you, because they're speaking from a parental child perspective, guess what if you did not understand how to communicate, and how to have difference of opinion, and
cater to somebody else, and listen, while even disagreeing and saying, okay, we'll agree to disagree, having those coping mechanisms having communication skills. And when you get to relationship, guess what you got to think about, you're not my mother.
Right? Or you got argue with them, like, like, there's your sibling. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna be offended simply because you disagreed, look at the lack of maturity there, or not even sometimes even worse, the guy will treat her like it's, she's one of our one of his boys. She's not your boy. She's most of your best friends, somebody who you nurture, you build affection with something that maybe many people have not, like, have the opportunity to even think about, and thinking that's gonna come after? No, bro. I mean, that doesn't, that's not how it works. You have to study communication, you have to study the generalities of gender, not to interaction, gender,
characteristics. So we're not again, we're not characterizing men are all this way. And women are all this way. But there are generalities. Even scientists and psychologists speak about one famous book, for example, his men are from Mars, women are from Venus, by john gray. And there's follow up books after that the seven languages or five languages of love.
There's many communication skills books of how to cope in marriage and communicate, you need to really read and do your homework and see where you're lacking. So when you're when you're impatient with your mother, because she's telling you to clean your bed, what about your wife, like you're acting like a, you know, like a whatever, you can't even clean up after yourself. Yeah, or the fact that she even you don't even have the ethic, the work ethic, that somebody has to constantly remind you this that you don't want to let your marriage be your testing grounds, because some marriages fail based on that.
Right? But rather, you want to educate yourself before these five, these four things are very important. We mentioned intention, the qualities you're looking for literally, what are the qualities? Write them down? And then number three, what are the shortcomings you have? Including? Are you have age or have the opportunity to marry? Are you mature? Are you qualified to the health, financial stability, and number four, communication and understanding the opposite gender, just understanding women as women and men as men? I hope everyone that's listening is
ready. And taking taking notes down. But I think one key point that you mentioned was maturity as well, because so many people think like, I'm ready for marriage. Why? Because like, you know, I feel like I'm ready. Right. But there's obviously we have to like we're talking about living in the real world, right? So we're not just talking about financially and stuff, but just the mindset and just being of age, like we said to marry. And we can't say there is a particular age, right? Because I think that's also a problem, which is like, you know, people say, okay, you're 25 now you're six now, you have to get married, right? But maybe that pressure, societal pressure, pressure. That's,
that's another reason why people just get married, and then it leads to like long term problems and issues. But yeah, like, you have to be so we can't put an age on it, meaning like, even if someone's like in their mid 20s, like, I've met so many people who are in their mid 20s, even late 20s. Nowadays, like they haven't done anything in their life they have they've got no responsibility. They're not there in terms of financially maturity wise, they're like, you know, that like the example that we always
hear, like, literally chilling with your boys like that.
Every single night, you're just, they're just accustomed to a particular lifestyle. And they think, oh, when I get married, I'm going to continue that way and it's cool. So they're just not there yet. So we can't put an age on it because it's led to many problems in the past 100% but maturity is a is a huge two things I think for for people listening and watching
Like, you know, if you are thinking about getting married, I think this is something else that you really need to kind of assess. But
we have to wrap up because the crazy thing is like, we need to bring you back
to continue, because let me throw something out there. I think honestly, like, remember we had, you know, we had a female voice in this discussion. Yeah. And that's a psychologist, licensed counselor, psychotherapist, you know, this is not just a all male panel sitting here, like, I'm coming for you from the angle of religious perspective. Okay, what is our faith teach us in looking for the right one, okay, there's a lot of things to consider, there's a lot of things to reconstruct, we're not even into the part we're talking about, like cultural infringement of your family, when you've finally found somebody and they're not they don't happen to be from your, from your race. But there
does need to be from a, from a sociological and psychological perspective, the voice of, of women, the voice of a qualified, you know, scholarly figure, or psychologists or sociologists, or somebody who's, you know, obviously has experience, at the very least, to speak on this issue. And that's why it's so important. You saw the difference when we had it. And I do definitely think that inshallah, in the future, that that has to be something that's, that we discussed, and I want to make sure that's very clear out there. That, you know, I recognize that 100%, and you see the benefit of that, for women to have that voice to have their questions answered. There's a lot of questions that you
might have, even after this. We just need a female voice out there for sure. Yeah. And we're not obviously speaking on behalf Well, for sure.
We're not qualified, you know, counselors and relational, right, this is purely from like, an experience based perspective, from religious lens of what our faith teaches us. And then 100, both of us are, you know, qualified to speak on that perspective on
it. And once again, it's been a very, like, deep and insightful discussion. And like we said, most likely, we're gonna have to have a part three.
But once again, it's been a pleasure to have you on board. And I've definitely learned a lot. And I hope because a lot of our viewers and listeners, you guys have learned a lot from this discussion. And we've discussed many different things. And like I said, that there's probably quite a few things that you've heard for the first time, there's probably a few things that like, you know, it's we've quoted, like different durations and different is wonderful. And you're like, wow, I never knew that, you know, like, the Islam actually spoke about these things in this way. So there's definitely I think there's a there's a lot because we even covered things like segregation and the masculine
and then we went to relationship. So there's so much ground to cover here. But I think the most important thing is like, try to inshallah maybe, like, connect with, you know, different like scholars and students of knowledge. If you want to find out more, in particular, your own context, like you might be in a different part of the world right now. So it's important to connect with people who are in your locality as well to get advice from them. And to kind of discuss further rather than just kind of, you know, just fully relying on the only podcast which is a great start and was
supposed to start a discussion. Yeah, this is this is the start of the discussion and it's up to you guys in Charlotte to just continue that. However you can inshallah. So once again, about a coffee. She has ignored a lot. Joining us last month, bless you. And definitely next time you're back, we hope to host you again, inshallah, about coffee to all of our those who tuned in. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. And make sure you subscribe to us on all of the other platforms as well as well as iTunes and we hope to be with you again very soon take care from your host should be said it quite a lot.