09 Muslims And Infidelity

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The Baba Ali Show

Channel: The Baba Ali Show

Episode Notes

Special guest Haleh Banani joins the Baba Ali Show to discuss:

  • are practicing Muslims really having affairs?
  • what causes people to cheat
  • red flags to watch out for
  • baby steps people take to infidelity
  • the different types of cheating
  • advice for those dealing with this issue

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Bobby Lee Show Episode died, Muslims and infidelity. This podcast has been brought to you by half our Dean calm and Muslim marriage website designed for those who want to find that other half privately because the only people that should know you're looking to get married or people who are looking to get married. Try half again today. For those who have become fans of this podcast series, you'll notice a common trend among the topics that are presented that is are often taboo and rarely spoken about. Today's topic is no different Muslims and infidelity as a staffer law, it can't be Oh, yes, it can be and unfortunately it is. And it's bad. If you're the type of Muslim who thinks that

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our communities are immune to cheating, then go get a glass of water because you're about to take a reality pill. Take two of these and call me the morning doctor's prescription. Let's do this.

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Muslims have confused the masses and speakers are forced to be politically correct.

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Voice

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Hey, man, why y'all serious? This is just a podcast.

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really had no idea that infidelity was an issue until I started talking to a number of Muslim family therapist. In fact, they told me that it's not only an issue, but it's a big issue, and many couples are going through it. Now. I know what you're thinking, no way. I think you're wrong verbally. Maybe you misunderstood. Maybe they meant to say, meeting not cheating, like halaal meet in. Well, there was a meeting but it wasn't really Hello. You know what I'm saying? But these people are Muslim, they fast they play? How could this happen? The reality is they're praying and fasting doesn't necessarily make you immune from these challenges, especially if those acts of worship are done as

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rituals rather than done with sincerity. The reason why it's so hard for us to accept that this issue exists within our communities is because it this is something that's only discussed behind closed doors. Only those who are professionals helping Muslim struggling with this issue are the ones who get a glimpse of how many Muslims are dealing with it. Today's special guest Khalid banani is one of those professionals. She has a master's degree in clinical psychology as a pioneer of combining psychology and Islam as a cognitive behavioral therapist. What does that mean? You don't need to know what it means. What you do need to know is that she knows her stuff. She's been doing

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Skype therapy session for the past five years with the international clientele. Yes, Skype has made a world of smaller place, you can get professional assistance with just a computer and a microphone. She's been doing this for nearly 20 years. 20 years of experience in diagnosing mental and emotional disorders and administering programs of treatment. She was the first female to host a program for alpha ledger TV called with Holly which combines the principles of psychology and Islam to help people reach their full potential and overcome their challenges. Holly is an internationally published writer and counselor for the website Muslim matters.org She received her ijazah for the

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citation of the Quran with tears reading Egypt from Sheikh Mohammed has always from us her University she's been married for 119 years she has three kids 1512 and 10. For those who are counting Welcome to the Baba Ali show. Assalamu aleikum wa Alaykum wa rahmatullah to be honest with you. When I first heard about this issue, I assumed it was something extremely rare. How popular is this problem with the Muslim community? No, unfortunately, I'd sad to say that it is pretty common I have a large percentage of the people who do therapy with me are suffering from infidelity in their marriage, and it's quite damaging to all their relationships. So it's sad to say that it's very

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common. Wow. Are the Muslims who are battling infidelity, like more secular or are they like Muslims who aren't practicing? or What is it? I mean, it's hard for me to imagine that practicing Muslims are actually involved in this type of thing, right? Well, it happens across the board from the non practicing to the secular to the actually very practicing. Really, yes, yes, individuals who pray, who put on his job, who are fasting, who you see at the arm, who give lectures and who are active in the community sometimes are engaged in this. Wow, it's just it blows my mind. I'm sure the listeners are thinking what I'm thinking how can someone who prays someone who fasts cheat? It happens very

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gradually. And I think a lot of times, it starts off very innocently, what seems to be innocent, it might be at the workplace, where people are just, you know, socializing and might be a doctor with a nurse.

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Could be, you know, a businessman with his secretary. And it just starts off with small talk and exchanges. And it builds up very quickly. Because whenever the who dude of Allah is not respected, then you find that everything comes crumbling down. And I have, you know, unfortunately, I've had a, you know, men call me and they say that, you know, I love my wife, I love my five kids, but yet I am addicted to this relationship. And there are women who call and they give me examples of being married, and they have kids, and they have a commitment. And yet they have, you know, they've been having this ongoing affair. And you know, it just it happens. And sometimes what it is, is a damsel

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in distress, where men find it very appealing to help individuals who are in need. So the woman, they play this card of damn cylindre stress, they're a victim, please help me and the man wants to be the hero and they get engaged in this relationship. It's almost sounds like a harem fantasy story, you know, like, you see those things like the Disney is like, it's like the haoran version of

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like a soap opera, right? It's like a Muslim version of the soap opera. And I tell you, I mean, I was very shocked initially, at first, I don't get shocked very easily anymore, but it is pretty common. So what causes people to cheat on each other. But you know, there are a lot of different issues. I had this one client who was strongly encouraged to marry someone that she was not really interested in. And she did it for the family. And many people you find from the Middle Eastern families fall into this category of getting married, because like the family wanted it. And so there is sometimes a lack of companionship, a lack of friendship, and they feel like they're not really

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getting that fulfillment from the marriage. So sometimes that's the cause. Other times you find that people are withholding their affection, or even withholding the physical intimacy as a way of either punishing, or as punishing their spouse as a way of getting what they want. I mean, I find that with a lot of the sisters, sometimes they do this, or they have an issue with intimacy, they are having difficulty being completely free and uninhibited. And that causes them to want to seek fulfillment elsewhere. Wow. So I initially thought like, okay, when the cheating thing was something real is probably almost all men because of their urges. But it looks like women also cheat, but they do it

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for a different reason. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Right? Sure. You know, I've had I've had females write in and tell me that, you know, they've been on in an ongoing relationship. This has happened sometimes with whether they were they are liberal Muslims, or they're very practicing Muslims, you find that individuals in a liberal setting, sometimes they end up having a relationship with their husband's best friends. And sometimes it's in situations where they're very strict, and they come into the home, they sit apart, they don't even talk, they don't look at each other. But somehow, maybe from the workplace, it gets started and they develop this relationship. Now, woman,

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they need that sort of affection, they want the attention so many times they end up justifying it because they feel that for whatever reason, they're not getting the fulfillment, the emotional connection with their spouse, and every single person wants to feel desired. So whether it's a male or a female, if your spouse stops making you feel desirable, stops making you feel wanted and accepted, then unfortunately, a lot of people start justifying these hot um, means

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sorry, Holly, my mind is still blowing. No, I know. And I, you know, I, I share this because I feel that so many people are naive about these issues. And I know that it's, it's hard to believe, but I'd like to address it because I feel that it is a reality. I face it on a daily basis. And I see it across the board. And I think, you know, as long as we know that as it exists, then we can actually, you know, be more aware of it, we can be more cautious, take preventative measures, and then those who are in it, realize that they're not alone and find you know, find solutions. And the service you provide to help these couples is something amazing, and I applaud you for that having good luck.

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It's a privilege and I feel the the fact that people trust me with their life stories, people who are just at the end of their rope, you know, sometimes people are suicidal, sometimes their marriage is about to fall apart or you know, they've had this infidelity and they just need to put life back into their marriage. So I just I feel

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That it is definitely a privilege to be able to help people handle these situations. A handle is amazing work. And you said a key word, the word prevent, how do we prevent our spouse from engaging these acts of fidelity? And how do we prevent ourselves from going there? I'm sure a lot of listeners, those who are on the borderline, this will be very valuable information for them. Right? Well, it's definitely preventing it. You know, like you said, there are things that you can do as a spouse, making sure that you are very attentive to your spouse, making them feel desirable, giving them attention, making sure that you're connecting on a daily basis, you know, I just did a marriage

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webinar talking about how people a lot of times live as roommates or they live and they feel like they're imprisoned. And this really damages the relationship when people start drifting apart, then they are more prone to having some kind of some kind of an affair. So I think make sure that you are prioritizing your spouse making them feel very special. There needs to be flirting, you need to put playfulness back into your relationship and make sure that you're addressing the physical intimacy that there is fulfillment in this area. Because what I have found in doing couples therapy is that very few people actually communicate about physical intimacy. It is such an important part of our

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Deen and you know, you know very well because your whole you know, your website is called Halford Dean, the reason is half our Dean is because no, when you get married, it fulfills you and it fulfills your desires and your needs. And so we need to make sure that that is being fulfilled, because in many relationships, it's not being addressed, it's being ignored. And that causes a lot of problems. Is there any signs for people to know that the other side isn't happy? I mean, I think women have a better intuition on picking up the details. But men are often blind to this type of small things. And we don't see things as easily as women do. So do you have any tips or both males

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or females on what signs to watch out for realizing that there's something that needed not being fulfilled? Sure. Well, what I have seen with a lot of the clients I've worked with is that and it's you know, I do deal with an international clientele. And I find that across the board, you see, I see pretty much the same thing in the sense that many people are approaching their 40s there is that midlife crisis, which I thought Muslims are immune to, I thought all you need is that spiritual connection, you just need to be you know, you need to be praying and doing all these things. And that way it'll protect you. But in reality, I see that those individuals who are practicing who are

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driven by the deen, they are the ones falling into it as well. So there is something to look out for when your spouse reaches the midlife crisis age, which is usually in the 40s. If you start seeing dramatic changes, like I had one client whose husband dramatically changed, like the way he was dressing his you know, change of car change of lifestyle. So you start seeing a big change. And then you wonder where this is coming from. That's something to look out for. If they're very private with their phone, I mean, there really shouldn't be any secrecy with phone calls, there shouldn't you know, you should be able to have passwords and have easy access, you know, and unfortunately, this

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is part of the problem is that many couples come across the emails and the SMS says, and that's how they actually discovered that there is an affair going on. So really, if you have nothing to hide, then your phone should be readily accessible. It sounds like there's different types of cheating. And they have different types of impact today's world, we have social media, and how much of an impact that also makes when people think that just because I'm online, it doesn't count. So can you elaborate a little bit about the different types of cheating? Absolutely, absolutely. There's emotional cheating. And that's when you connect with someone on an emotional level, you may not be

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physically involved with them. They may be across the world, but the fact that you are connecting with a person and you're sharing and you're having this intimate conversation, that is one form of cheating, and a lot of times females fall into this because they are in need of that connection. And if they don't find it with their spouse, a lot of times they try to look outside their marriage and you know, getting this fulfillment outside of your marriage. It is just like a man seeking sexual pleasure outside their marriage. That's how gratifying it is to a female. So you know, you got to really look out for that. There's financial cheating, there's the fact of being and this may not be

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within the topic, but sometimes when a spouse spends secretly and doesn't share with their spouse then there is a

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Actual the physical cheating. This is what we usually think about, you know, when someone says they're cheating, they're having an affair, it's basically you're thinking that they are having an affair. But then like you said, there is the virtual right there is the virtual cheating, where it's either sexting or they are sharing inappropriate pictures of themselves. The use of porn falls into this as well. I mean, I know that with a lot of men, they find that this is harmless, what a I'm not doing anything. And they don't realize that women view this as their spouse cheating on them, they have the same reaction as if they were physically with someone. And then I've even heard of

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practicing Muslims, unfortunately, getting prostitutes. So you know, it varies across the board. Wow. I can just imagine, like how much impact all of this has on a marriage? Does it mean that once the cheating is discovered is a guaranteed divorce or a hope or saving the marriage? Not necessarily? Not necessarily. It's really absolutely it breaks the trust. So you know, the wife starts feeling very insecure, or the husband, whoever is being cheated on starts feeling very insecure, there is a feeling of being very obsessive about the spouse, not really, you know, completely losing trust. And it damages definitely damages the relationship. There's a lot of

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suspicion, there's a lot of checking and following up and reading emails and a lot of emotional hurt, right. There's the anger, there's the hurt, there's the frustration. Now, what I have found is that individuals who are remorseful that they regret what they have done, they realize that what they did was a mistake. They regret it, and they want to somehow salvage it and there is sincere Toba, there is sincere apology, then that can be salvageable. I have worked with individuals that they have been able to overlook those mistakes, see it as you know, something that they did, and they can, you know, put it behind them and move on. However, I've had individuals who do these

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things, you know, they're like, let's say in their mid 40s, I remember a scenario where convert sister, her husband in her mid, you know, midlife crisis went off with someone half his age and total disregard of what he has done, there was no remorse, no apology, and basically just left his wife and kids to pursue his desires, you know, just going after that immediate gratification, versus delaying the gratification. So in in situations like that, when a person doesn't even realize what they have done is wrong. When there's no remorse, when there's no apology, there's no effort to want to work on it, then that is, that is doomed. That's a doomed marriage. And it rarely, it just, I

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actually when it gets to that point where a person doesn't even recognize their mistake, then I don't encourage people to stay in a relationship like that, because you know, that's an abusive relationship, because if they don't see anything wrong with it, they will continue the flirting, they will continue the the affairs. You mentioned earlier that it starts off with just people talking to each other. I mean, we know islamically, there is rules of engagement when it comes to dealing with the opposite gender, yes. But what's a good

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border to pay attention to before you cross it, especially for those who are having trouble with their marriage, and you mentioned that there's a vacuum, and then somebody else comes to fulfill that vacuum and then that person gets attached? And those take those baby steps until something actually ends up happening. Unfortunately, that's

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where's that border so people are more aware of it so they can pay attention to it. So before they fall into that trap, okay, well research. What's interesting is that Reacher research by non Muslims show how to prevent infidelity. And as I was reading some of the guidelines for preventing infidelity, I was just amazed how similar it is to the Islamic principle. So the list goes not to have a friendship with the opposite gender. And this is coming from a non Muslim, okay, not to be alone with the opposite gender, not to give compliments because what usually happens is that people go to work, they're all decked out, they're made up, they give compliments to each other. It's

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actually a very fake relationship. If you think about it, there's just an exchange of of smiles and compliments. And so it was just it. The guideline is not to give compliments and not to share your personal problems with someone of the opposite gender. Don't start talking about problems at home because a lot of times people pacify themselves thinking or justifying, oh, I'm just talking about my wife and kids.

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Well, that is creating intimacy with this other person and not to talk regularly with the same person at the same time or going out to lunch with them. You know, these are all the things that Islam tells us. And I feel like what I have learned through hearing all of these disaster stories and seeing people fall into into such huge mistakes is that first of all the messages that anybody, just absolutely anybody and regardless of how religious you are, how knowledgeable you are, how active you are, you could easily fall into this trap, because no one is immune. And the second thing is that, you know, we need to keep the hoodoo Kabbalah, this would do it is there for a reason,

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Allah knows us, he knows our weaknesses, he knows what drives us and how we could fall into these problems. So if we just stick to those who do it and not put any kind of exceptions to them, then then we can be safe from it. Unfortunately, sometimes, especially when I talk to the youth, they don't necessarily agree. And that's unfortunate, because it's very common for many Muslim youth today that they say, Oh, I don't see a problem with having very close friends of the opposite gender were just quote unquote friends, would they don't understand exactly what you just mentioned, to who do the philosopher tala knowing how he's wired the female and how he's wired the male, and how our

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instincts were put inside of us by him? That's right. So he knows what's gonna happen when a man and woman are together alone. And sometimes it doesn't just go from A to Z, it goes from A to B to C to D, all baby steps. That's right. And I always say that, you know, I tell my clients I tell like the the students I give lectures to that is like, what is happening before that act of infidelity? What leads to it? And it's usually a glance, a smile, a compliment, a text, a, you know, going back and forth with the texting, how are you? How is your day, I remember having one client who, you know, she was very sure she was married, and she was having this basically relationship with her husband's

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best friend, and there was this texting back and forth, back and forth. And I was telling her, you know, this is really dangerous, you know, you are crossing that line, there's no more guards up. And if you're alone with this person, it's going to be very dangerous. And she just kept trying to explain it that no, we just check on each other. No, it's just a friendship. Before you know it, she ended up in a hotel room with him, unfortunately. And it's because, you know, she just put down her guards. And there was this exchange and connection. So you just you really have to be careful there. It's never okay to have this kind of friendship with the opposite gender, because you never know the

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emotions do arise. And you do get connected. Sometimes you may not even be attracted to the person, but because they are feeding your ego in some way, because that ego is being fed, you can fall prone to it. Wow. I'm speechless.

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I know, I know. And it is always shocking. And you know, whenever I share this, but I just feel that, you know, I think people need to be informed. That's why my passion is to teach people how to have a good working relationship, how to create that, like that passion, the excitement within the marriage that you already have. Because yes, the butterfly feelings that in love feeling might fade after you know, after some time, but your job is to, you know, create acts of love to do things that will recreate those feelings. So a lot of times when people feel like, oh, gosh, you know, I'm not I'm not getting the butterflies. I'm not as excited to see my spouse, they think that I marry the

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right person. And there's all these doubts, and then they start seeking it elsewhere. So they start seeking that excitement outside their marriage. What I try to tell my clients is focus on your marriage You know, just bring back the excitement do new things together. Because you know, it's been proven that when you do exciting things together let's say you go whitewater rafting, let's go you go parasailing let's say you take a trip to to a country together something that you haven't done in the past to get yourself out of the rut and you know, creating these exciting memories and it brings about the emotion. So you know, you got to focus on the person that you do have in your

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life and bring back the spark. That's very good advice. Do you have any specific advice for each gender like to the wife there, or to the husband out there who are listening, mentioning specifically if you're the wife, these are some things you can do? Absolutely. You know, and I'm sorry, and as well as for the husband, things that you can Sure, sure. You know, as the wife, I think that you really need to be in tune with your

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Husbands needs, I think that making him feel important making him feel valued and cherish. These are things that really feed the ego of the man. And I think that any man who feels like they're valued, they're respected, and they're loved and desired, when they get all that fulfillment at home, they are less likely to fall into this, what a lot of times happens is when the spouse starts, they start ignoring one another, or they start playing these games of withholding affection, withholding the intimacy and thinking that they can get away with it thinking that they're somehow either punishing their spouse or teaching them a lesson. Well, I'm here to say that these things don't work. If you

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do that, you're just going to push your man into the arms of another woman. And so try to focus on his needs, give him the attention, the love, feed that ego and feed the all of that all his emotional needs, and have an open dialogue about your intimacy, you know, just find out what the needs are in order for you to be able to fulfill that. So that's for the sisters, as far as you know, for the brothers. You know, I know that it's hard to believe that sisters were practicing sisters roll, venture off, however, many of them justify it, you know, many of them justify this act, because they feel like you know, my husband just doesn't, doesn't connect with me doesn't talk

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to me doesn't give me affection. So brothers, I say, you know, connect with your wives daily, daily, find out what you know, what their day was, like, how they're feeling, have them share with you, because that emotional connection is so important if you do that, and if you connect with them daily, that is a very strong way of getting your wife to open up to you. So connect with them emotionally be in tune to their needs, be appreciative because, you know, a lot of times the sisters are juggling so much with the housework, and but the children, some may be working, and a lot of times there is a complain about lack of appreciation. So try to make your spouse feel appreciated,

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connect with them, go out with them, and and really just put that energy into your marriage inshallah, and make sure that they're physically fulfilled as well, because many times their needs are overlooked, you know, their focus is all about the man's need. And we overlook the fact that the woman has just as needed equal needs. And so that needs to be addressed. And you have to make sure that they're fulfilled, and there has to be an open dialogue about this. That's very good advice, especially for those who have not reached that trial of infidelity. Do you have any advice for those who are dealing with infidelity issue right now? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I really do recommend

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getting professional help. Because sometimes the emotions are so raw, and you just feel that you might be at a breaking point. So getting that extra support is definitely helpful. You got to work on building the trust. And that trust means you know, you have just if you are the one who cheated, you have to do whatever it takes to regain that trust. And I know you're going to feel like you're on that hot seat, you know, you feel like you're going to be investigated and questioned and your phone is going to be checked and your email is going to be checked. And it's not pleasant to be on the receiving end of that. But that's what is going to take, you gotta have kind of this open policy

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where you know what, here's my phone, here's my email here, whatever you want, just check. And because that person who has been cheated on needs assurance, they need to feel that I don't have to worry about this, like you're honest, and you're telling me the truth. So if you're able to do that with your spouse, and build that trust, share whatever you're doing, if you run into someone telling your spouse that builds trust, if you need to travel and you happen to run into someone, you know, share all these little intimate things in your day, because then the person feels like okay, this person is really honest with me, they're really sharing, and make sure that you don't have any

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secrets really, because these secrets will come and haunt you. If you feel that there is an email that you have to delete or you have to be careful about or an SMS that you have to be careful about that whatever you're doing is you know, it's just as strong. So just try your best and, you know, it's about remembering the fact that you're going to meet your Creator one day, it's not about hiding it from your spouse. It's so much more than that, right? I mean, you can get away with so much and your spouse will never find out but the fact is, Allah sees everything you're doing everything you're viewing, right and it's about you know how Allah says assorted nazar

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That what a man and half a Mahavira Biggie when the handcuff sign and Howard are in Elgin, that's a heel malwa, right? That it's that person who fears standing before his Lord. And he is like, crushing his desire that is when he attains john. So yes, we all have desires, we all may be tempted, there's temptation everywhere return, but it's a matter of realizing that one day, we're gonna have to account for all this. And it's, you know, the one who is able to crush their desire is the one who's successful sister martial arts. It's a very, very good advice. I think every listener who's listening to this, including myself has learned something is more aware of these issues. And I

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applaud you for having the courage to help us bring this issue to the surface. And I'm sure a lot of people who are listening know people, including themselves, they may want to contact you to seek help, can you please provide how they can contact you? Absolutely. Well, you could contact me on my website, which is www harlot. banani.com, which is h a l e, h banani, B, A n a ni.com. And I also have a program called the five pillars of marriage, it is a marriage program that I'm launching inshallah, so it is the number five pillars of marriage.com. And you can also find me on Facebook, amazing, and I'm sure for those who did not know about you know about you now, and a lot of people

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already know about your great service, your knowledge and Hamidullah amazing talent says I can l'affaire. Well thank you so much. And I really enjoyed being on your podcast and congratulations on this podcast. I think it's a wonderful program massala Farah And with that, I would like to thank all my listeners who have been listening to this podcast and have been leaving the reviews on the iTunes please if you have not already done so go to iTunes. Leave your review. Let me know what you think about the podcast and if you need the links for Holly banani it will be in Baba ali.com The link will be right there just in case you guys missed it. Just go ahead for our guests for coming

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for today. And this is Bobby Lee reminding you just in case you forgot