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Questions on Christian History #02
Channel: Adnan Rashid
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Okay, so I had a few more questions and we are kind of running short on not running short on time. We have a little bit of time, but I wanted to make sure I get to these questions. So, you know, we, a few years ago, before COVID hit, we had put on a, an exhibition related to resell a salon. And, you know, what we do is we do training the night before for the dot, and some of the community members so that when people come and speak, they will know what they're talking about. So one question that came up over and over again, was who is Iran? So in the Quran, it's mentioned, right, for instance, sudah la Bron. Okay, then we have the, you know, you know, who he was in terms of
related to money. Mm hmm. But who is Enron? How do we understand what a moron was? And what does that have to do with the story of SLE Salaam? If you can help us out, Ron, as far as we know, as far as we understand from fear is one of the ancestors of Maria Maria Salaam, and this Emraan is not the father of Moses and his sister Mary, as not the father. No, no, this is not the Imran being referred to this. Okay, okay. Right, right. Right. Okay. You see, and Ron was a very common name. Among the Israelites, the Israelites continued to name the children after profits of the pious predecessors for that matter, okay. So they would always remember these names. In fact, some sometimes these
names were used as reference to distant ancestors. Okay, so both possibilities are open, but Emraan in this case, as far as I remember, the more serene they are of the opinion that Emraan was one of the ancestors, a close ancestor of Maria Maria Salaam. And by that virtue Maria Maria Islam was one of the descendants of a man called Imran Okay, now when she's called, the sister of Aaron, in the Quran,
actually raised this question that was made at the time of the Prophet 30. That was my next question like that's why this is why it's directly linked is directly linked. When Marie Robin Sharma radula, one was sent to a drawn, one of the companions of the Prophet movie, Robin Sharma, was sent to the people on the ground to teach them
about the Quran and Islam. Nigerian was a Christian city predominantly. And they when they read the Quran, or when they heard the Quran, they're disburse. Yeah. Dr. Harun okay. So they said hold on this Mary, the mother of Jesus was not the sister of Harun. Yeah, the brother Moses. So this is
an anachronism in the Quran. This is a mistake. This is an error. Somewhere, I've been sure about who was not a profit or loss? Of course, he didn't have the answer. So he came back to the prophet in Medina, asking him this question. How is this possible? The Prophet said this was a reference of honor. This is not a biological reference. This was a reference of honor to marry all the pious people in
or among the Israelites, all the pious people were referred to titles like this. Sons of David, brothers of David, or daughters of David, for example. There is another reference I completely forgot in the New Testament, or similar reference to one of the ladies who was called one of the daughters of David, but she was not a direct descendant of David. Okay. He was called. No, I was gonna say, isn't there also reference to Elizabeth being the daughter of yours? Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's Oh, sorry. That's the reference. This is the reference to Elizabeth, daughter of Aaron, actually not Daughter of David. She Elizabeth was not the daughter of Aaron. She was not a
biological daughter. This was a reference of authority. This was a reference of honor. This was a reference of genealogy for that matter. More, more so spiritual genealogy than physical one, right? So any pious person. That's because Mary was a person of merab. She was a person of piety. She was a person of Zod. She spent a lot of time doing liquor in seclusion. She was known for that. And for that reason, she was known as
the sister of haruno, that one of the Sisters of Aaron because he was like Aaron, she was priestly. She was pious. She was an ascetic. And when she came with a child, they were shocked that how can someone like you, one of the Sisters of Aaron, or someone from that priestly class, come with something like this, a child, when you you're not even married? So this is exactly how the reference was used. So that issue, the sister of Aaron issue is separate to the ancestry Iran. So Iran was one of the answers to those that Korea and Mary if I'm not mistaken, if I remember correctly, because I read this in prophecy.
And the reference to Aaron is actually a spiritual one rather than a physical one or biological one. But embrun definitely a biologic biological alim. Ron surah is caladium. Ron, is because Iran was one of the ancestors of these people. And these were very, very common names. Okay. The, the Hebrew name is omraam, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. It's not m Ron, and Ron is alibies version of amraam. Or I'm Ron. Basic, gotcha. So, um, so just to kind of like add a layer to the discussion, I was reading what the machete says about these IOD? So he actually presents that, in fact, he tries to say that if I'm remembering this correctly, that in fact, there are two emeralds. And again, this is, and a
lot of this, obviously, it comes from Israeli art. So how do you really give a proper, you really can't. But it's interesting. They said that you had the father of you had the father of money and whose name was Iran. And then you also had the father of musen. Harun whose name was also Imran. So interestingly enough, Dr. Alia salami in his book on easily salon, he makes an interesting observation. And he says that it's interesting that Allah mentions the name of Muslims father, if we consider this opinion, correct, mentions the name of Muslims father in Milan, but doesn't mention the name of her mother.
Which he says that when you look at lineage leads is always through the Father. And so all of a sudden, there's an interesting paradigm shift when it comes to Isa, whose reference is to the mother, in the sense that Allah subhanho wa Taala is linking the idea that lineage is always through the Father. And that's why and Ron's mentioned, but when it comes to easily Salaam, only his mother's mentioned, this is just a subtlety, that that Rackley, that that may be another subtlety there. Right. But the problem with Israelite tradition is that we cannot fully trust it. Right? Unfortunately, we don't have any means to assess its authenticity,
other than itself, other than the text itself. And it's very difficult to use an altered text to assess the the authenticity and the veracity of the text itself. So right, that's the difficulty we have. But at face value, we have to believe that Iran was one of the ancestors and it wouldn't be surprising at all, because Iran is just another name, which is very common among the Israelites, like Zechariah. Like, Moshe, okay, like Shambo. Shambo, right, like David like Yeshua. These are very, I mean, there was a Yeshua, a companion of Moses. And then we have Yeshua, recently Salaam, Jesus, he's also Yeshua, by the way, right? So it has so many parallels, even in the within within
the Bible, there are so many names mentioned for so many different people. And the names are exactly the same. Right? Sometimes it becomes difficult to discern as to which David are we talking about here? Right? Because in the same story, you have to David's right? So there are so many examples of names being repeated within the Israelite
tradition. And it's not as it's not a surprise at all. It's like the name Abdullah today. His name is like, you know, Muslim named Muhammad, for example, there are millions of families around the world, right? Why wouldn't Israelites name the children around? So it's not a surprise at all in any in right, in any sense? You know, I wanted the This reminded me of something totally unrelated. But I went to the gym the other day. And you know, the guy I told him, I said, you know, Ramadan is coming up. So obviously, I don't want a full year membership. I just want to get my membership for next few days. And then once Ramadan is done, once it comes, I don't want to. So he says he's Oh,
yeah, Ramadan. Yeah, I know about that. You know, there's a guy that comes here he goes, you know, he's, you know, you know, Muhammad. And I was like, man, I know, like, 15, Muhammad's man, like, who's supposed to know who this random guy is. Anyway, it just reminded me what you mentioned, you know, in Saudi Arabia, in Saudi Arabia, people don't know you, they called you, Mohammed. Mohammed. I've gotten
this what is the most common name in the Muslim world? And
among the Israelites, there were certain common names that were used repeatedly for children. Right? There was um, I think there's a narration or or a version of the Hadith you mentioned, where the prophets I seldom said something to the effect of that the the people of old would name their children after profits. You know, and so and then I think it was in relation to the same idea of Yeah, okay, hold on, right like the so came to him and he says the children. So from that some scholars, I believe, have a pine that mudumalai salaam had a brother an actual brother named Harun, but my issue with that just to kind of throw this out there, not that I not that this really counts
for anything. Is that
If there was a brother and he was pious, then it would be indicative of him being older than money money center. But the issue was if if Madame Islams mother already had a son, then why not? Her son? Right? So it just kinda, I don't know. This is this is what shows this particular text caught on to be divine why this would be the answer Prophet would have given if the Prophet was making things up from himself, he would have said, Yeah, there was a brother called Harun. He didn't say that. He said this was a reference of honor. Now, because of that had these we can't have that second opinion. Because this makes it very clear. Movie Robin Sharma was told by the prophet. This is a
reference of owner and the Israelites used such references or similar references to pious people. And this is why Maria was called, but she was called Yeah, Dr. Harun? Yeah, that answers the question quite clearly, it's very clear to me, the prophet has already given an interpretation that there's no need for another interpretation. Right. It's regarding.
Very good. Okay, so I've got a few more points. And by the way, I want to, you know, to our viewers out there, inshallah, if you guys have questions, if you can start posting them, you know, we have Shannon with us today. So I'm having, I'm having a lot of fun picking his brains hamdulillah hopefully won't get too sick of me. And then he'll join us again. And, but, but if you guys have watched, as well as please post them in sha Allah, it's definitely a great opportunity. And so while we're waiting for the questions, I'll continue on some of my other buddy, I'm looking over here, because I've written all of this on an on a chalkboard, or whiteboard, like all the questions I want
to ask. So the other thing I wanted to kind of get into was the concept of salvation. And I know you've debated, you know, certain people on this topic, but I think it's it's very, in a sense, when we're making doubt to Christians, I think it's important for us to at least have a very clear understanding of, obviously, what our concept of salvation is. And then what generally Trinitarian Christians or you know, the majority of the Christian world, whatever you want to say, what they believe that the idea of salvation is, so that we can, you know, when we're making doubt to them, we understand kind of where they're coming from, you know, so if we could maybe start maybe a little
bit. I know, that's a very lengthy topic, but just kind of some tidbits and maybe some kind of key elements that can help us as dot when we're talking about. Okay, just to just to summarize very quickly, I had a debate with Dr. James White in the US. Yeah, Atlanta, Georgia, if I'm not mistaken, January 2018.
And the debate was titled Do we need the cross for salvation? do watch that debate, and you might get some ideas from there as well. But to summarize very quickly,
it depends on how you define salvation. Salvation in Islam is not necessarily what Christians might think of salvation, see, their view or their perception or their conception of salvation may be completely different to ours. So one has to define as to what they mean by salvation, if you mean by salvation, eternal success, pleasure of God, entering paradise, eventually at the end of all, your life here in this world, and having been through recompense, on the day of judgment, if that's what you mean by salvation, then Muslims as Muslims, we are guaranteed salvation so long as we die in Islam, in a state of faith, if we die in a state of faith. If we die in a man, for example, we are
guaranteed salvation. A lot of the Christian missionaries they spread this rumor, or this misconception, deliberately quite deliberately among the masses, or the crowds, that the Muslims have no promise of salvation. They have no salvation, they are doomed, because they don't believe in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They cannot possibly have salvation, but they are lying to their audiences. We do have a promise of salvation. The Quran tells us a lotta mutanda while the
Muslim moon do not die unless you're a Muslim, does that mean that means if you die a Muslim, your sins, you will have to pay for them. But eventually you will enter Paradise, you will enter God's protection, you will enter God's pleasure. Okay, you are a sinner, everyone is a sinner, we will have to pay for our crimes, okay.
In some cases, more so than others. But eventually, so long as we died Muslims, so long as we died, Muslims even having committed sins This is not encouraged sinning. But to highlight the point that so long as we die Muslims, we will enter Paradise eventually, right? But anyone who dies in a state of shirk, or cover has no salvation. Anyone we believe anyone who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity, for example, or anyone who worships idols, and you will anyone who worship spirits and trees is not going to enter Paradise God will not enter him into paradise. This is a problem.
Allah in the Quran, Allah will not forgive schicke. Allah has made it very clear. So long as we do not commit * with die in a state of Eman And we die as Muslims. We are guaranteed salvation. The Prophet told us and very often Christian missionaries use this release of the prophets of Salaam where he said, Even I don't know what's going to happen to me. Okay? All right, but we say he's talking out of his humility. He's not, he doesn't want to be proud and say I'm guaranteed. Of course, he's guaranteed paradise. He's the prophet of God, he's promising people paradise. He's telling Booker, I'm out of mine. And he, I've always I've been gerar. And so I've been telling all
these people that you are promised Jana. Right? So how can you be promised john, how can you be given certificates of gentleman when he himself is not going to paradise, but he's speaking out of his humility, that even I will enter Jannah through the mercy of Allah, not through my deeds, necessarily, the mercy of Allah who has given us this life, just like the Christians claim that every time the human Jesus speaks, he's speaking out of humility. It's not the divine Jesus speaking is the human speak. So likewise, when he speaks in these terms is speaking, then, you know, in humility, rather than speaking with pride, right, right. Mashallah, Zack, you know, I was, so I
don't I don't really debate that often. I mean, obviously, you guys in the UK, you're you're a lot more adept to these sort of things, you know how to handle it. So that I did do one debate with one of
I think it was William Lane, Craig students. And I see you on that maybe I think you had advised me a few things, and I watched some of your material to prepare for it. And this issue came up. In fact, the guy had a list. And he said, like he was it was at like, I don't know, missionary calm or something. Who knows where he got it. Just so one of the points was, we're guaranteed paradise, and you guys aren't. And you know, I was thinking okay, so how am I going to answer that and that morning, I was reading an ayah in the Quran, where Allah subhanho wa Taala says, Paul in Canada laquan McDonald, aka al Qaeda in the lahi, Minh Dune in NUS right, say if the home of the Hereafter
is with Allah min doing the nos and exclusion of all people for terminal mode, in quantum saw the pain, so wish for so wish for death if you're speaking the truth, right? Absolutely. Now, I actually mentioned that the debate, and I said, Look, let's just be very real. If your concept conception of Paradise is like ours, why would you waste your time here, you have, you know, marriage and divorce and flat tires and problems with your kids and financial problems. helaas finishes, I'm not encouraging suicide. But the reality is, is you intrinsically know that that's not true. And from the Islamic framework, when you look at people that are out in battles and things like that, they
took that as a reality, right? That if we're going to be on the battlefield, and we're going to fight, and we die in this path, they're able to do that, right. But ask yourself this, like, Is it really true? Or is it just a poll that I have on my tongue?
And I think some of the brothers were a bit taken aback. They're like, Whoa, that was really wrong, man. Maybe.
I said, Look, man, it is what it is, man. That's
it. That's, that's what came to me at the moment. So long, but But no, it's a good point. Because I think a lot of Muslims also may have some confusion, this area, right? Like one of the other missionary tactics, they say is to ask the Muslim, are you entering Paradise by your deeds? Or are you entering by the mercy of God? Right, this is one of your again, your missionary one on one how to trip up a Muslim. Yeah, we we respond to this question as follows. We, our deeds are actually a manifestation of the mercy of exactly Yep, yeah, this is our, this is how I respond to the fact that we are able to do the deeds we do is
is a sign that God is having mercy upon us the fact that we pray to God, the fact that we do not commit shirk, and the fact that we do good deeds whenever we do, it is a sign of the mercy of God. So this is how we enter Paradise
by doing good deeds through the mercy of God. Yeah, yeah. The one the way I usually explain it actually comes from irredeemable hanbali and he has a shout out of the Hadith where I think you may have alluded to it a bit earlier, when the Prophet Solomon said none of you will enter Paradise by your deeds or something like this. And one companion who you know, I always think like he actually had some guts to ask the process of them this right is that not even you? Right?
So is alum so the progress has been said, well, Anna, right? Not even me. unless Allah envelops me with his mercy. Right and then that's the mercy right but us yeah.
You know, and a bunch of comments on this. And he says that, you know that, you know, if we enter Paradise by the mercy, it's predicated upon doing good deeds. And he starts listing the idea that whatever deity we do, it is a mercy from Allah that is given more credit and more weight than just a one to one accounting of the deed. So he gives us exactly, exactly my thoughts, right? And so it's we say, we entered Paradise by the mercy of Allah, but it's predicated upon doing good deeds, which have more value than what they would if we just did them, you know. So, to put it in simple terms, doing good deeds is a sign of Allah's mercy. Right, right. Allah has is having mercy. Allah's mercy
doesn't it's not an abstract concept. It is an actual concept. And that concept is manifested in your good deeds. So when Allah says Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah mean, Muhammad who said, you know, except as a mercy for the world, What is he talking about? Is it an abstract point? Or is it a real point? The mercy manifests itself in your daily living as a Muslim? Yep. That's, that's the mercy of Allah, the fact that you're being a Muslim, you're living as a Muslim. That's the mercy of Allah. And this is the mercy that will take you to paradise eventually. That's the point. Brilliant. Brilliant, Mashallah. Okay. I'm going to post a few of these questions. There's some good ones here.
And we're going to finish up my time to 30. So we have another What is it? 19 minutes. Are you okay with that? Or I know it's too late. Oh, you're okay. That's right. It's cool. I mean, things are usually chill in box on anyway. So yeah, absolutely.
You guys will have the same rat race that we have over here. So I'm not at all hamdulillah. Alright, so we have this question that what?
Let's see. This one here. So she, wolf. Hi, Annie is asking how do they know? And I'm assuming he's talking about Christians? How do they know if human Jesus is speaking? Or divine? Jesus is speaking? Like do they have a criteria? Or is it again the whole concept of theology that proceeds text? Like how would how, as a Christian, how would you know which ones which Okay, When, when, when Jesus appears to be denying the notion of his divinity, his alleged divinity, then is the human Jesus speaking. And when there are some vague verses that allegedly point to some form of divinity, then it is the God Jesus speaking the god man speaking, right? This is all Christians judge.
Unfortunately, this is exactly how it is. In practical terms, this is how Christians determine that it is the human Jesus when He says, Why do you call me God when there is only one good and that is God? That's the human Jesus speaking. I can I can own my own self do nothing. It is the Father's will I do? This is human Jesus speaking. Okay. Then, for example, when you say his father is the only true God, in john 17, verse three, this is the human Jesus speaking, I ascend on to my father and to your father, to my God and to your God, this is human Jesus speaking, unfortunately, right. But every time there are vague verses used in some sort of divine sense, that's the God Jesus
speaking, this is how, unfortunately, this is how the verses are interpreted. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, no, I think it does. So do you think that's a good point to bring up? When you're having conversations with Christians in the sense that, you know, if we're talking about whether the theology is correct or not, and you're giving evidence from the Bible, the problem with the Bible is that theology precedes the text. And so therefore, you can't use it to prove your theology. It's almost like a circle. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So so what what they do with the with the New Testament is Easter Jesus, not exegesis. Okay, so they're read the read the theology into the text,
not the other way around. They do not read the theology out of the text, right? They read the theology into the text, the super important theology on onto the text. And this is called Easter Jesus in hermeneutic.
terms. So this is how, unfortunately, Christians have been using the text of the New Testament for centuries. Right, Michelle? Yeah, I mean, it's uh, it's interesting. I haven't heard that term before but I'll definitely use it now for no
difference between exegesis and Easter Jesus Masha Allah. So we have a comment here, by the way, not a question, but a little message for anon Jazakallah Hyatt, for the work you put out, you played a big role in debunking shears and for me, and eventually reverting to the Islam of the Quran and the Sunnah. Mashallah Zakat, humbler Morello Shu mela continue to guide you. I mean, I mean,
Alright, here's another question. How do you understand the difference between the names Isa and issue?
I'm using the Arabic so I don't know
is an atomized form of Yeshua. Simple, okay. Okay. The Koran borrows terms in an atomized form. The Quran is indeed in Arabic, all of it. So what the Quran does Quran uses atomized terms taken from previous civilizations for example, Farah own is an atomized version of para.
Okay, para is basically
the term in ancient Egyptian in hieroglyphs This is how we read it pa right? But the Quran uses the terms around Moosa is an atomized version of Moshe, for example. Okay, and the list goes on Injeel is an atomized version of evangelium. Right. Right. Bharat is an alibis version of Torah. Right. So there are so many different examples. Likewise, Risa is an atomized
version of Yeshua. Hmm. Okay, so before I get to this next question, you actually reminded me of something, you know, from, obviously, from the Islamic tradition, we know that there was a revelation that was given to SLS, which we call the MG. Do Christians think that there was a revelation that was given to SLS Salaam? That's part one, and part two? Is that which was given to East LA Salaam, what they have is the Bible today is that the second part colorare of that belief, because obviously, when you talk about the Bible, they always say the inspired Word of God, it was given to Matthew, Mark, Luke, they were inspired by God, okay. But then was there something separate
that was given to establish Salaam according to their theology, or there wasn't?
You see, there are references in the New Testament whereby it is stated that Jesus was preaching the gospel, not plural, not four gospels, not one of the Gospels that were written later on. But he was preaching the gospel right. Now, whether these four gospels contained the gospel is a very interesting question, but none of them actually claim to be the gospel. None of them. None of these are gospels, according to john, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Right. These are, and Paul has his own gospel in his epistles, right. And Paul was simply unaware, completely unaware of these four gospels, because they were not written, so long as he was alive. He died in 60. c, allegedly. And
the first gospel was written between 60 to 70. See the Gospel of Mark, right. So Paul was completely unaware of these four Gospels. And these gospel authors never claimed to be divinely inspired. By the way this divine inspiration was superimposed on these four gospels later on, in the third century, to be precise, again, previously, up to the second century, these four gospels were simply treated as the memoirs of the apostles, not necessarily a scripture, scripture, to the early Christian in the first in the second century meant the Old Testament, not the New Testament, there was no such thing as New Testament for as late as the late third century. Well, it took Christians
nearly 300 years to come up with
a collection of books that was that was later on called
the New Testament, there was no New Testament, even in the mid second century, there were books scattered all over the Christian word, written by different people at different times in different places. But there was no such thing as new the New Testament scripture, scripture strictly meant the Old Testament up to that point. Wow. So these are Memoirs of the apostles. In the second century, in the third century, they were given the status of Scripture by the third century church fathers to be precise, right again, with the process of theology proceeding.
The script the Scripture, exactly, exactly. Alright, so now next question, what books would we start a nanomachine recommend regarding Islamic history. Okay, Sherif Ali is the lobby, one name, his books have been translated into English and other languages. Sherif Ali, Mohammed is to lobby, his books are excellent treatments, good places to start inshallah for beginners, definitely. So. So I would just add to that, you know, Dr. Li, Salah, his books are excellent, especially if you can navigate the Arabic language. What I would say, however, is that some translations are really good. Some translations are extremely bad. So for example, there was a translation that I read on his book
related to Ahmed Abdul Aziz, the translation, it's unreadable, it's really so you would have done in India or Pakistan? No, I'm not sure. It's it's a I mean, I don't want to call
The brothers out but as a data seller of the keishon, which is really strange, you know,
but I, I would recommend it. Yeah, I'm not mistake. It our Ph. Oh, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for a Ph. I Ph. Their translations are good. Yes. They're very, very good. Yeah. So I would just say, be careful with who's doing the translating, because a lot. I mean, first of all, a lot of the will make sense.
You know, so for myself, I just reverted back to the, to the Arabic. So those are actually very, very good. In fact, he he wrote a book on recently Salaam, I don't know if you've gotten a chance to look at it, but that's very good. I mean, I've really thoroughly enjoyed it, learned a lot from it, inshallah. And I think there is a translation out there of the book as well. So if you are an absolute beginner, then I would strongly recommend the last Islamic history by for Rasul kotti. Ah, that's a very good book to start with, if you are an absolute beginner on Islamic history. And that's, that's the first book I would strongly recommend. The last Islamic history by philosopher
could be a very good book, or shall do you have any books you would recommend?
related to the Christian tradition? Or like Dawa to Christians or some someone who was interested in let's say, getting a
who's starting off in, in calling Christians to Islam was, can you think you see everyone has a different level of
reading and understanding? Some people are not prone to?
How can I put it, they're not very good with academic works. So recommending academic books may not be very good, but nevertheless, I will mention some names the books of Giza vermis, who was a Jewish scholar on early Christianity, his books are excellent. Okay, okay. Then, there are other authors I would strongly recommend. Some books are highly technical. I wouldn't like to recommend those books. Right. Works by Bart Ehrman, for example, are very, very good, highly readable works. But ermine, although Christians are generally allergic to that name, but but Brian do read the information. His books are excellent, excellent treatments of early Christianity. And apart from that, I would say
read books by shake it out and watch his videos. And you will get some basic knowledge on Christianity, but don't necessarily use the same arguments because some of the arguments have been used. They've been exhausted, right? So we really need to,
as they say up our game, we really need to improve with our arguments and go academic on everything in Java. Right, right. Shall exemplify is there so So since we're on this question, says I have you Is there any books you would recommend for someone who would like to get started in studying the history of Muslims in South Asia?
Okay, there is a book by Mujib, the author is mujeeb and the book is titled Indian Muslims. Oh, yeah, actually, I remember you telling me about that time that I found in your library. That's that's an excellent, that's an excellent book. And, and there's another book by Jamal. By Gamal, this is the surname and the book is titled Islam in South Asia. Okay, Islam in South Asia, okay. In German. Yeah.
Okay, and these books are written original English, or their books that are translated Oh, yeah, they are in English. They are academic books that have the good Okay. Let's see what else we have I wanted to get.
Let's see that.
so someone asked a few unrelated questions, but
I'm having to scroll through this. Just give me one second.
And if you want to read in moguls, there's another book titled, the Mughal Empire by FF Richard. There is another excellent book recently authored by Richard Eaton. Eaton is he at AU n. Richard Eaton, and the book is titled India in persianate. Age. Okay, India in persianate age. That's an excellent book is a very recent book and also look into the works of Audrey trash. Although it fresh he has written on orang zaev. He has recently written a book on Muslim history in the Sanskrit sources. These are some of the good works you can read.
All right. So I think this question is I think we've already kind of answered it but if you want to comment any further but I think you've already done a pretty thorough job.
What does inspired by God mean does does that mean? JOHN Matthew, Mark Luke were prominent and in the Christian sense, it means basically, these people are receiving revenue
from God and to Christians, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john are prophets. In that sense, they are prophets in that sense, right? So because they are delivering God's information, they are receiving revelation from God. So in the Christian sense, that's what they mean. But when you read the text, you can clearly see contradictions, direct mathematical contradictions between them. So if the same God is inspiring all four of them, Why is he inspiring them with different information? The question, why is the same God inspiring for different people with different information? What game does God play? So what kind of response when you presented as Christians? What do they say? Like how
do they go response? There is no response, I had a debate with Samuel Greene on crucifixion. And I put up the references from these four gospels on the question of crucifixion, right? There is so much confusion on the details around the incident of crucifixion, it is absolutely crazy. And I asked this question, why is the same God inspiring these four different authors with different information to confuse the people? Why could he not tell them all the same thing? Why give different information? This is not this is a question they haven't answered. Not to my knowledge. Hmm. Interesting. All right, let's see here. There's not seem to be like a nice long discussion going on.
Let's see what we have.
random discussion, so on and so forth. So I guess while we're
Yeah, so while if someone wants to post a question, go for it. But in the meantime, the the concept of crucifixion. So that's one part we didn't really, we didn't get very deep into, you know, so maybe, in the few minutes that we have left.
What is the general Christian belief when it comes to crucifixion? And,
you know, why is it so important to Christian theology?
is, I guess, a third question to that. It has that been the case from the very getgo, meaning do all Christian denominations, whether Catholics, Protestants, or we're talking about Coptic Christians, have they all kind of believed in a that Jesus died on the cross and then put so much emphasis on his connection with salvation? You see, this question can be answered in a number of in a multifaceted way.
The answer if you want an answer for pre Nicene, Christianity,
to be precise Christianity before the year 325 C, or if you want an answer for post Nicene Christianity, then the answer would be different. Because most of these denominations you mentioned the the Protestants and Catholics and the cops and Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox, and all of these denominations, Anglicans, and etc, Lutherans and everyone put together they are all Nicene Christians, they are trinitarians. Today,
they are offshoots of the Catholic Church. Some of them broke away from the Catholic Church, but they took the Trinity from the church from the Catholic Church, pre Nicene. Christianity was very, very diverse.
In the reading of the books, for example, they are different books from God.
They can in the list of the authoritative books was there they were very often they were different. The theologies are different. The beliefs are different. Some of them believed in the crucifixion, others did not. Some observed the law, the Jewish law, others did not. Some believed in one God.
One person, they were strictly monotheistic, and somes were binary terian. They believed in two gods, I mean, not to God, one God manifested in two personalities, the Father and the Son, and some became trinitarians. Later on, the Holy Spirit was added into the binary. And lo and behold, we had the Trinity. So there were so many different theologies, when it comes to the issue of crucifixion. This is strictly speaking Gentile Christianity. This is what Paul had taught the Greeks.
This is why you read the letters, to Colossians, and to Ephesians. And to Romans, For example, these are letters written to Greek populations of Greek areas, where people had come to believe in Jesus Christ. So Paul was strictly speaking, preaching to the Greeks about a crucified Messiah, the Jews wouldn't buy it necessarily. Jewish believers in Christ wouldn't buy this kind of stuff. The Greeks would believe anything because they believed in so many different mythologies and different gods and deities and all sorts of things. It would be easy for them to believe in this but the Jews outrightly rejected this. This is
why some of the early believers in Jesus Christ were Jewish who were Israelites they claimed,
you know, they claim Paul was an apostate from the law, Paul was simply a hypocrite to them. He was a malted, literally, you know, because he was preaching against the law when he was preaching to the Gentiles that they don't have to follow the Jewish law. But by that virtue, Paul was not trustworthy at all. That's why the Christianity we have today is essentially necessarily Gentile Christianity, not Israelite
view on Jesus Christ, right. But there is something very important to keep in mind. This is not a very simple question to
answer, unfortunately. Right, right. Those often it's a we're actually out of time. And so for the other folks who had questions inshallah maybe we can take it next time. She acknowledges applaud her for your time. May Allah bless you. I know it's very late in Islam, but right now, probably way past midnight. So we're gonna go and let you go. And so any parting advice, you know, in terms of someone who's in would like to make out to Christians, any sort of parting advice or just in general as the month of Ramadan comes, any sort advice that you can give us inshallah, to two pieces of advice very quickly, when you do give power to Christians, please do read about them do understand the theology
and don't misrepresent the views. A lot of the brothers in the passion. They're not very learned in Christian theology. For that reason, we advise them to learn about the Christian theology and Christian history, that way your dog will be very effective, you can actually make sense of what you're saying. And this is why we advise you to be informed on Christian theology, read Basic Books about Christian theology and Christian history. And then you can do Dawa effectively to Christians and also, of course, learn about your own Deen. You may be given out to Christians based upon the Bible and their history, and then you are questioned about your own faith and you, you you you fall
flat on your face. It shouldn't be like that. So be informed. Do dahveed l with knowledge. That's one advice, and start with Basic Books and then make your way up, watch debates, dialogues, discussions online, they give you a lot of information. This is exactly how I started. I started watching
comedy dot debates. And I used to take notes sitting in front of this old TV set with a VCR with VHS VHS tapes back in the day once upon a time in ancient period, you know, when when there were dinosaurs walking around at that time, right? So
I learned like that Okay, so this is the way to start. Start with dialogues and debates, watch videos online and then take notes and start reading the books I already recommended. Second advice is in the month of Ramadan, please read at least one Jews of the Quran a day. Finish it and try to read it with understanding your life will change inshallah. Sharla Chawla is off hate it's been a really enlightening session I know I've benefited tremendously May Allah bless you bless your family, and except from you all the work that you're doing. And you know it's it's been a real pleasure to talk to Ohio Shannon, thank you so much. And thank you so much. And for everyone that's
here. May Allah bless everyone that's here may Allah subhanaw taala open up your hearts if this is if you're not Muslim and you're looking for you know the kind of the truth of reality and things like that. We invite you to take a look at Islam with an open heart and open mind and of course if you're Muslim, then May Allah bless you for your time and your and your and your and your attention and all of that and mail except from you allow all of us to reach the month of Ramadan and accept all the deeds that we would inshallah Allah would allow us to do in the month of Ramadan. Joseph malachite was salam o Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh