Channel: Adnan Rashid
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Salam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu
which means May the peace, mercy and blessings of God be upon you all. My name is Hamza. And these past few weeks my organization of safe initiative has been working closely with the Curtin Christian Union UW a Christian Union and the Islamic Council of Western Australia in organizing these two interfaith dialogues, a safe initiative which of course in Arabic means the summer initiative. Our goal is to compassionately convey the teachings of Islam, especially in a time where there is much hostility towards Muslims and their religion they follow. So it is a privilege to be standing here today. You know, with two great speakers rather Adnan Rashid and Samuel green, who undoubtedly will
do a great job representing their side when it comes to the important issue of his prophet muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam foretold in the Bible. Equal recognition should also be given to Steven Bruce, who is the president of the curtain Christian Union, and he will be our moderator for the evening. Now, before we begin the Koran and Bible recitation, I just briefly want to mention two things. The first concerns the structure of tonight's dialogue, so each speaker will be given 20 minutes for an opening statement. This will then be followed by a first rebuttal of 10 minutes, a second rebuttal of five minutes, our q&a session lasting 25 minutes, will you the audience can ask
both the speakers whatever questions you might have. And finally, we will conclude give each speaker three minutes conclusion time. Secondly, and more importantly, tonight is a night where Muslims and Christians can come together and discuss their beliefs in a calm and articulate manner. As such, this applies to everyone in the room Be respectful, so no cheering, no excessive clapping. And tomorrow Muslim brothers and sisters, no tech viewers tonight. Okay.
With that being said, Brother Ibrahim said he will get up to recite a brief passage from Serato off. The verses that he will be reciting is at the heart of tonight's dialogue. Because it is these verses which specifically mentioned that our Prophet Mohammed made the Peace and blessings of God be upon him is foretold in the Bible. You can follow the translation on the screen. Thank you very much.
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Good evening. My name is Declan and I'm a member of the curtain Christian Union. And tonight I'll be reading from the Torah and the Gospel. From the Torah. I'll be reading from the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 13. verses one to four.
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the Prophet says, let us follow other gods, Gods you have not known and let us worship them.
You must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer, the Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love Him with all your heart, and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God, you must follow and he must revere, keep his commands and obey Him, serve Him and hold fast to him. And from the Gospel, I'll be reading from the book of Matthew, chapter 24, verses 23 to 27.
At that time, if anyone says to you, look, here is the Messiah or There he is, do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you that he is out in the wilderness, do not go out or here he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it, for his lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the West. So it will be the coming of the Son of man. I would now like to invite up as the BSA aide from the Islamic Council of Western Australia to introduce our speakers.
salaam aleikum. Good evening ladies and gentlemen.
I have been asked to be very short and sweet inshallah, so I will not take too much of your time. It's a pleasure to introduce the two speakers to you tonight, Chef Adnan Rashid and Samuel m green. Chef Adnan is an international lecturer from London, who specializes in Muslim history in Islamic numismatics. he attained his bachelor's with honors from Berbick college University of London, and completed his master's from the School of Oriental and African Studies.
He is currently pursuing further studies in history at London. He has studied the sciences in halls ijazah certificates in that field. He has also debated high profile Christian theologians in a piece occasionally on major media outlets, such as the BBC, BBC Asia, network, Islam channel, ITV and many more. Adnan has travelled extensively.
Adnan has traveled extensively and has conducted history tours to a number of Islamic monuments. He is an avid book collector and also takes a keen interest in studying ancient medieval coins.
He has taught many Islamic as well as history courses workshops around the globe, Adnan Rashid is currently working on a book on the history of Muslim civilization. He also writes poetry in Urdu in language occasionally, is an admirer of poets like Mir and Iqbal. He speaks fluently in English and Urdu and also feels relatively competent in Arabic. He currently resides with his family in London. On the other hand, Samuel Greene, became a Christian while at university and has been involved in various Christian ministries. Since 1999. He has worked with the Australian fellowship of evangelists, students as a campus evangelist in Islamic engagement director. He is also a writer for
The answering Islam website in the Anglican interfaith chaplain engaging with Islam is one of Samuel's main interests in he does this through writing training, evangelism lectures and debates. He has a degree in theology and chemical engineering. I would like to wish both speakers the best for this debate, and hand over to shadman. To
to Samuel green to start the debate.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, as Ahmed introduced, my name is Steven and I'll be the moderator for this evening. Just as a heads up first, Sam and Adnan will be presenting the opening present
And now I have 20 minutes for that. And when one minute is left, I'll sound a little bell. So hopefully they can both hear that one. Yes, I'm just going to introduce Sam is coming up first. This
is also just to mention, please turn your phone's off after this evening. And also you are being video recorded. So don't do anything silly.
Well, good evening, and it's a pleasure to see so many of you here tonight to look at this very important question. I want to thank you for coming out and taking seriously the things of God, and that the claims that religions actually make. I want to thank the organizers, the Christian and student groups who have spent a lot of time working with this. Thank you very much. And I want to thank Adnan for coming over. We have divided the three times before and I count him as a good friend. And so it's great to see you again.
The question tonight is, is Mohammed for told in the Bible? Now why are we asking this question? Well, we're asking it because this is what the Quran claims, as we've already seen, those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find written in the Torah and gospel with them.
That is, the Quran claims that Muhammad is foretold in the Torah, and the gospel that with the Christians and Jews. And so throughout Islamic history, right up to the present day, Muslims have come to the Bible to find these references about Muhammad.
And there are many, many books, and leaflets and internet articles, attempting to do this that you can find quite easily.
Now with this verse, and others like it, we see that the Bible is being appealed to as an authority
for proof that Mohammed is a genuine Prophet, and it's saying he's in the Torah and the Gospel, and you can see this. And so that is, if you want to know whether or not Mohammed is a genuine Prophet, then you are meant to be able to pick up the Bible and find him in the Torah and the prophets, sorry, in the Torah and the Gospel.
That is that the Quran actually and it does this on a in a few different ways. It allows you to test it to test Mohammed, it has other tests that it uses, but this is one of them. Now, if Mohammed is foretold in the Bible, then that means I would say he is a true prophet, and everybody should accept him.
But if he's not foretold in the Bible, then this verse in the Quran is false, and Muhammad is false, and he shouldn't be accepted. And so it's quite an important issue that we're discussing here tonight. And I hope that you will bear with me as I put forward the Christian position as to why we do not accept that Muhammad is foretold in the Bible, I'm going to be giving two reasons. The first is that Mohammed does not fit into the message of the prophets. And the second is that there are no verses predicting Mohammed in the Bible. And I'll look at some of these here. Let's look at the first of these. Mohammed does not fit into the message of the prophets. Now, what do I mean by that?
What I mean is, I don't want to begin by looking at a particular verse, I just want to take the Bible as a whole. If we look at the whole Bible, what do we see? Well, the Bible itself is actually not one book, but a collection of many books from many prophets, over about a 1500 year period. They come from different locations and different languages. It has the law of Moses, the gospel, and a whole range of other prophetic books in there. These books build on each other. And they are meant to be read together. And together, they give us God's complete message. And the message they give us is very clear. It's what Christians and Jews would call the the story of redemption, or redemptive
history. And what I mean by that is, I'll give you a summary of this story as you begin at one at the start of the Bible and work your way through. This is the story. The story is that God has made the world God made the world good, but humanity has rebelled against God has sinned against God. And as a result of this, we live under God's judgment. We're under the His judgment and under the judgment of death. Now into this world, God speaks. God brings about a plan of salvation. And so we see this in terms of the covenants that God makes. And so there's the covenant we
Noah, with the covenant with Noah is God's commitment to creation to sustain creation. And then God makes a covenant with Abraham. And that covenant with Abraham is to bless all the nations through Abraham, then God makes a covenant with the nation of Israel. And they are to be a kingdom of priests, a priestly nation that God speaks to the world through, they have this unique priestly role. And then there's the covenant that God makes with King David. And it's through David in this covenant that God promises to bring the Messiah. Now, this Messiah is the one who is going to fulfill all of the plans and purposes of God. And so
we see that the prophets will talk about God's resurrection kingdom to come, God's eternal kingdom, the eternal life, that God will bring the forgiveness of sins, that God will bring the new creation. And all of this hangs on the coming of the Messiah. This is just a story of the of the prophets. Now Jesus is this Messiah, who is fulfilling these covenants, this, this plan of redemption, and bringing the resurrection eternal life of God, he brings to a close the story that God has in the prophets. And so we read from the Apostle Paul, for no matter how many promises God has made, they are Yes, and our men in Christ. And so through him, the Armen is spoken by us to the glory of God.
Now, that's what we call redemptive history. And it's the message or the storyline throughout the prophets of the Bible. But when Mohammed comes, he doesn't teach this message. Whereas the Prophet said that the Messiah would bring the fulfillment of all of God's plans for Mohammed, this is not the case. Instead, the fulfillment of God's plans are all about him. He is the final prophet, he is bringing the final message of God. And he shows a different way to bring God's kingdom and another way to be saved. Mohammed tells a completely different story to the story that we find in the prophets. And what he says about himself doesn't fit with what the prophets say. Now, I just want to
give you an illustration, so you can understand this a bit better. The Quran itself has a story. And Muslims know the story that is that God created everybody. God created the world, but people have forgotten God's words, and turned away from God. And so into this world that is turned away from God. God has sent prophets to every nation, and the last of these prophets. And the greatest is Muhammad. And so he is spoken of as the seal of the prophets in Surah 33, verse 40. Now that that's sort of the storyline of the Quran, isn't it.
And so, this helps Muslims to know whether or not they should accept somebody. And so when in Persia, two men claimed to be a prophet for the Baha'i religion, BB and Bohai Allah, they claim to be prophets after Muhammad.
They follow his claim that these prophets are foretold in the in the Bible and in the Quran. But Muslims reject this, Muslims reject the bar high, because it doesn't fit into the story of the Quran of the plan, the overall history that the Quran puts forward? Well, it's the same with Mohammed in the Bible, he just doesn't fit into the message that's there. So that's my first reason. Mohammed doesn't fit into the message of the Bible. I now want to look at my second reason, and that is to look at some of the verses that are put forward, where Muslim leaders say that these predicts the coming of Muhammad. The first point I need to say, of course, is that the Quran itself never quotes
a verse from the Bible, or or any other book, saying that this is what Muhammad fulfills. And so Islamic leaders read through the Bible, and I've taken a selection of the ones that they often refer to. Let's look at the first of these, Deuteronomy 1818, I will raise up for you, I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers, I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I commanded him. Now this is God speaking to Moses, and Muslims. Look at this verse. And they say, well, that the claim is that when God says to Moses, that he will rise up a profit from among the brothers, that the phrase brothers here is referring to the ishmaelites, who
were a brother nation to the Jews.
Now, is this the case? I want to say no for the following reason, that if we read Deuteronomy 18, in its context, that is from chapters 17 to 18, we see that it's talking about leadership in Israel. It talks about the judges, the kings, the priests and the prophets. And most of the time
They described as being from the profit from the brothers. And the context here is that the word brothers just means fellow Israelites. And so there's no reason to think that it means anything different when it comes to speaking of the Prophet, of the prophet to come. The second reason I don't believe it's about Mohammed is because if you're going to be a prophet like Moses, you you need to agree with him. And Mohammed's prophecy in the Quran simply doesn't agree with what Moses said. So in the Torah of Moses, God created us in His image. That's not a teaching in the Quran, the fatherhood and the Son of God is one of the teachings of the Torah, but it's rejected explicitly in
the Quran. In the Torah, God comes to dwell with his people. In the Quran, we're on a journey to paradise. Humanity is corrupted by sin in the Torah, there's the priesthood and the sacrifice of atonement to approach God. But these things are not in the Quran. Now, I'm just trying to take the big themes there. But you can see if you want to be like Moses, you do need to agree with him on the basics. And the last point I want to bring up is
that if we read these verses in context, and I've underlined the verse 20, which is just a few verses on, we see that the prophet who speaks like Moses must speak in must not speak in the name of other gods. But what we find is that the name of God in the Torah, prophets and psalms is this name yawei.
But yet, this is not the name that Mohammed prophesied in Mohammed never spoke in the Name of Yahweh, he spoke in the name of Allah. Now, it may seem like a small point, but the Bible's clear and the the Torah is clear that the Sacred Name of God yawei is the name of the property is meant to speaking. And this name is unknown in the Quran. And, and so I want to say that Mohammed does not speak in the name of the God of Moses.
The next verse we want to look at is Judo, Judo, Ron v. 33.
Where it says, He said, The Lord came from Sinai, and dawned over them from sia, he shone forth from Mount Paran, he came with myriads of his holy ones from the self from his mountain slopes. Now, the claim here is that these locations Sinai sia and mount Paran are referring to prophets. Mount Sinai is Moses sia is to Jesus and Quran is to Muhammad. Well, is this the case? I want to say? No. And we can see this just by reading it in its context. So the context of this verse is that Moses is blessing the Israelites. It's at the end of the Torah, and Moses is blessing the Israelites, as their journey from Egypt, to Canaan comes to an end in what's called the Exodus, and Sinai, Parana
and see other places that they've been traveling through, to get to their Promised Land. And what Moses is saying here, as you can see from the verse is that the Lord came and was with them.
And so the point of this verse is that Moses is praising God for being with his people. That's the context of the meaning of the verses. There is no mention in the verses of a prophet. There is no mention in the verses of, of Revelation. And if there was then you know, Jesus would be Jerusalem, he wouldn't be seer, which is part of Eden.
I'll move on to my third verse, The Song of Songs, verse, chapter five, verse 16.
His mouth is sweetness itself. He is altogether lovely. He is my lover. This is my friend, oh daughters of Jerusalem. Now the claim here is that the Hebrew word for altogether lovely, sounds like the word Muhammad. And and it does. And because of this, this verse is a prophecy about Mohammed. RSI this is not the case for two reasons. The first is because it's based on what's called a phonic fallacy of folic fallacy, folic meaning sound. And it's the idea that if two words from different languages sound the same, then they sort of are the same and can be transferred, that you can't do that you sometimes you might be able to, but you've got to be careful, you just can't
automatically do that. I'll give you an example.
In the Quran, the word Allah is the name of God. Now the word Allah is in the Hebrew Bible, it's in the Torah. And here it is, and it means oak tree. It means oak tree. Now that doesn't mean that every time you read the word, Allah in the Hebrew Bible that you've got a prophecy about Allah. It's just it's a different language and it has the same word, but it has a different way.
And also now it is true that words can be descriptive. So for instance, when Isaac was born, he's when, when Sarah was told that she was going to give birth to Isaac, she laughed. And so Isaac is the Hebrew word for laughter. So you can be given a name, which is a descriptive name. But when we read this verse, it's not saying that the person will have this name, whoops. It's not saying that the person will have this name. It's just giving a verse about it. It's in a wedding song. It's a song for a wedding. And it's talking about the male who's about to get married, and how the woman thinks that he's amazing, which is a great thing.
So I'll move on to my, my next verse. And that is Isaiah 29.
Now, Isaiah 29 reads, or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read and say, read this, please, He will answer I don't know how to read.
And so the claim is that Mohammed could not read. And this is referring to his experience in the cave, when the angel asked him to read and he said that he couldn't
honestly say that this verse is not about Muhammad. And if we just read the verse in context, we can see this, you'll notice that the verse before talks about someone who can read for you, this whole vision is nothing but words sealed on a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read and say to him, read, read this place, He will answer I can't it sealed. And so you can see, it's actually talking about a scroll that can be read, and people could read it, but it's sealed up. And it's actually referring to the vision that Isaiah has just given. But what's interesting here is that if we just read a few verses aren't, we actually find out when the scroll is going to be
opened, and when it will be understood. And look at what it says. It says, In that day, the deaf will hear the words of the scroll, and out of gloom, the dark and darkness, the eyes of the blind will see. So here's the time when the scrolls going to be open, and what's going to be happening, the eyes will see the blind will see the deaf will hear. Now, that's Jesus, that's actually saying that Jesus is the one who's going to release it, who's going to make no on what was sealed in Isaiah. And that's actually what Jesus says in the Gospel himself.
Isaiah 42 is another one, I won't look at that for the sake of time, but it's claimed that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah is the servant of Isaiah 42. Because of the proceeds from the tribe of Qaeda, which is mentioned there, I don't think this is the case. Because when we read it, Qaeda is rejoicing in the servant. It's not saying that the servant is from Qaeda. My first one, and I know this has been going very fast, is from john 14. And this is one that you might have heard where it says, where Jesus says, I will ask the Father, and He will give you another counselor to be with you forever. And the claim here is that the counselor is Muhammad, and that Jesus was foretelling the
coming of Muhammad. Now, honestly, this is not the case. Because if we just read a few verses on, Jesus tells us who the counselor is. He says, All this I've spoken to you while I was still with you, the council at the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name will teach you all things and remind you of everything I've said. So there has to be a place for reading in context. And if we do that, Jesus says, The Holy Spirit is the counselor. Now I just want to bring up another point here, if we actually let the Quran tell us who Jesus is speaking about, it also tells us that it's not Muhammad, because the Holy Spirit as Muslims would know is in the Quran, too. And in the, in
the, in the Gospel of john and in the Quran, he is both called the Holy Spirit. He is both called the spirit of truth. In both books, he gives the revelation of God to the apostles, he can be in you, he opens people's hearts, and he is sent by God and Jesus, and Mohammed does none of those things. So if we let the Quran tell us who is Jesus speaking about, when Jesus describes the counselor, the description that matches up to the Quran is actually the Holy Spirit in the Quran. It's not Mohammed. So I will
finish up now, with my conclusion.
I want to say thank you for listening to me now, the Quran claims that Muhammad is foretold in the Bible. But as we have seen, there is simply no evidence for this. We've seen that Muhammad does not continue the message of the prophets, and that he does not fit into the history and how God has worked in the world. Secondly, we've seen that the vs Muslim leaders claim are about Muhammad and not about him at all. If you're
Muslim I asked you to consider this because it is serious. If you're a Christian, I asked you to stick with the prophets, and how they point us to Jesus. And finally, if you are a seeker and you've come along tonight, I hope that I've given you something to think about. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Samuel. Now gonna give 20 minutes for Adnan to have his opening presentation.
In the name of God, Merciful, the Beneficent, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus and the goddess Mohammed.
Ibrahim Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam ala rasulillah. But Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, I'm honored to be in Perth. It is my first time in Australia. And shockingly, I was called coming from Britain.
Today's discussion is very important indeed, it
at the heart of Christian Muslim dialogue, Muslims and Christians have differed on this matter for centuries. The Quran makes a very bold claim in chapter seven, verse 157, that
the Prophet Mohammed is foretold in the previous scriptures, the scripture of the Jews, as well as the Christians. And Samuel produced a very fascinating presentation fascinating for the reasons I will discuss later.
But today, before I begin, I want to talk about the nature of Christian Muslim dialogue. I am for
a cordial relationship between Christians and Muslims. I have debated many Christians around the world. And one of the reasons I do these debates and dialogues is to prove to this world that Christians and Muslims can come together as brothers and sisters in humanity, share the differences and live together and be happy. That's very possible. And I'm not for hate, not for division, not for misconceptions, deliberately spread misconceptions, what happens in many cases from both sides. There are many people out there in the US in the UK, around the world, for that matter, who spread active hate against Muslims, from the Christian side, and Christians, against Christians from the
Muslim side. So we have to disown extremists, wherever they may be from both our sides. And this is the advice I've been given. And this is the advice I would like to give to Samuel green as well, that the spirit of religion must be merciful, compassionate and generous, not the other way around. So that's the spirit we proceed in tonight.
So the discussion, Prophet Muhammad in the Bible, I will come to the rebuttal later on. Let's go straight into the topic, Muslim view on the Bible. Now, the discussion is about the Bible, not about the Quran. Is the Bible even trustworthy? This is the question. A lot of Christians may be thinking of that Muslims always claim that the Bible has been altered, it's been changed. Why are they even appealing to it? Now this is where my point has to be clarified. Before I begin that our view on the Bible is quite nuanced. We believe that the Bible in its current form is not the original text, written by its authors. No one ever claimed that no one claims that when I say no one, Samuel can
come back and pick my brains on that point. And I can come back and give you evidence as to why I think that Jewish and Christian scholars in the world are unanimous today that what they possess in the hands of Scripture is not in its pure form, it has been altered. In fact, we don't even know the language of these prophets. We don't know what language Moses spoke, we have no idea what language Jesus spoke, there is an assertion or there is an opinion that Jesus spoke Aramaic, a dialect of Aramaic. And we have no book in the New Testament in that language. So later on his words were translated into other languages such as the Greek language, and when words are translated into
another language, meaning is often lost. So you must keep that in mind. So our view is quite nuanced. We believe we do have elements of truth within the Bible. Definitely. Definitely we do believe in parts of the Bible. We believe the origin of those parts is definitely divine. However, on the other side, there are passages that cannot be from the prophets of God, let alone Let alone God
himself, this has to be verified. So we believe Bible contains truth, false and dubious information. And this is another topic I have debated this topic with other scholars, you can go on YouTube and see my reasons as to why I believe that. So this was the Muslim view on the Bible and we do believe in parts of the Bible, when they can be ascertained, when they can be proved to be right.
So straight to the topic, who is that Prophet?
Samuel came and talked about why Muhammad peace be upon him cannot be that Prophet, the prophet, we will discuss the Prophet clearly mentioned in the text of the New Testament is really the most Old Testament.
Samuel gave his reasons. He talked about a number of things and when the biblical verses are read, they will write read in a way that we shall not or we should not follow imposters. I agree with that. 100% you probably saw me nodding on the on those verses when those verses were being read, I was nodding in affirmation. I actually believe that, that if a prophet speaks in the name of God and calls people to worship another God, we must not follow that so called prophet. That's an imposter. That's a liar. Okay. And this is one of the reasons why we do not follow a number of Christian thinkers because they were false prophets.
If all the teachings attributed to call our Paul's, then we also believe that Paul was also a false prophet, for told before his Advent. In fact, when Jesus spoke of a person coming in his name, teaching people things completely the opposite of what Jesus had taught, then he meant he has to be an imposter. When people are asking to worship another god, other than the God of Israel, then they are imposters, for example, worshipping a man called Jesus. We believe Israelites were never told that they were never told to worship a man in the form of the Messiah, or in the form of a prophet, who will appear in the first century. See, that's another topic we will debate that topic the day
after tomorrow is Jesus God, and a lot of these things will be discussed in that debate. So who is that Prophet being talked about? In john, it is clear that the Jewish people in the first century were expecting three people to arrive. Right? Who are these people, and they are distinct personalities.
They were expecting a Messiah, the Christ. They were expecting Elias or Elijah.
And they were expecting that profit, that profit. Now, these were three distinct persons, the Jews understood and understood them to be three distinct persons. And neither john nor Jesus, john the baptist, I'm talking about neither john the baptist, not Jesus controverted, this distinction, none of them, they did not controvert this distinction, they accepted it because they were silent about it. Right. So the Christ was to cut the long story short, to save time, Christ was the Messiah, Jesus, Jesus Christ was the Messiah as we the Muslims accept, and the Christians accept that. john the baptist was called allies in the book of Matthew, but in the Gospel of john somehow, that was a
misunderstanding. That's another topic which we will not indulge in. This has to do with contradiction within the Bible.
Then who is that Prophet? When you look at the footnotes in the Bibles today, you will see this refers to Deuteronomy 1818. Right. So when Christians claim that that Prophet refers to Jesus Christ, they have to qualify Jesus Christ, we we believe there are many prophecies about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, like the Christians do. What the Christians do with those prophecies is very, very inconsistent when it comes to similar prophecies about Prophet Mohammed, as we will see, in due course, none of the prophecies in the Old Testament mentions Jesus Christ by name, not one of them, all of them have to be interpreted, they have to be stretched, they have to be explained, to
fit Jesus into that context. And the Jewish people have for centuries rejected that interpretation. And I believe with apology, by the way, anything I say tonight is not meant to hurt you or, or upset you or in some way,
you know, insult your religion or your views. Rather, I'm only trying to you know, share my ideas, so that you can know what I believe in and what other Muslims believe in.
So, please, rest assured that the purpose or the intention is not to hurt your feelings rather, it is to express my view, which you may disagree with. Happily, no problem. I have no issue with that if you disagree with that. So
what the Jewish people did to the to the Christ to Jesus Christ, when he appeared on the
He claimed to be a prophet, the Jewish people rejected him and they, all the prophets, prophecies pertaining to Jesus Christ, they rejected them. They said, they cannot apply to this man, he's an imposter. He will. He's a sorcerer. He is an
he's a child from adultery. And there are many things Jewish people
accused Jesus off, but they rejected him. And they rejected all those prophecies about him. I believe, unfortunately, today, Christians do the same with Prophet Mohammed. They do exactly the same with Prophet Mohammed. They use reasons sometimes erroneous, to reject a true prophet of God, who is clearly foretold in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, as we will see in due course. So that Prophet was definitely not the Christ, Deuteronomy 1818, is still unfulfilled, if it does not
refer to Prophet Mohammed, because Jesus was not that Prophet, he was the Christ. Because if he was the Christ, he could not possibly be that Prophet. And if he was that Prophet, in inverted commas, that Prophet, he could not be Christ at the same time, because this distinction was very, very clear to the Jewish people, to john the baptist, and to Jesus Christ. So that Prophet, who is that prophet in Deuteronomy 1818, is the question, if it is not Jesus, and it was not Jesus, definitely, as we will see in due course, then the prophecy remains unfulfilled, which is a problem
if it's not Mohammed.
Before we get into that, I need to talk about Ishmael. A lot of the Christian scholars and Christian activists and apologists, they like to claim that Ishmael is not even part of the covenant. Therefore, anyone coming from Ishmael cannot be of God or cannot be formed the blessings of God. But this notion is quite false. When you look at the Bible carefully, actually, one of my friends from from the UK, his name is Zakir Hussain, he had an extensive debate with an apologist from the US, called David Boyd. And this particular debate was about this very question, the covenant and the status of Ishmael, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to indulge in the details. I'm just simply
mentioning, mentioning it passingly. So who is Ishmael Ishmael is from the seed of Abraham, and God promised Abraham that He will bless his seed. That means Ishmael also,
covenant was established with the seed of Abraham, Abraham
demonstrated that covenant or he materialized the covenant, the beginning of the covenant would be by circumcision, Abraham circumcised himself so and he also circumcised his son Ishmael.
So both were part of the covenant later on Isaac was also part of the covenant. So as you can see on the screen there, Genesis 2113, clearly tells us that Ishmael was the seed, or from the seed of Abraham, from his wife, Hagar. She was his wife, as the Bible clearly mentioned that, for some reason, after the post zelich period, I don't want to go into history too much not to complicate things. After when the Bible was written down, after the Babylonian exile, some of the Jewish rabbis according to some scholars, they decided to take a smile out of the covenant. And covenant was established with Isaac, not Ishmael. And this is a huge topic, it is a huge problem for for
Christian and Jewish scholars. They cannot possibly reconcile verses about Ishmael in the book of Genesis, and onwards, and the fact that his age was 13, when he was sorry, he was a teenager, 17, not 13, when he was carried, allegedly carried by his mother into the wilderness, this doesn't make sense a woman cannot be carrying as a child. It is clearly demonstrated in the woods that he was a child when the mother carried him in the wilderness, right? He cannot be a child and be a teenager at the same time, almost 17 years old. So these are some of the inconsistency in consistencies in the in the text of the Bible. In the Old Testament, Christian and Jewish scholars have wrestled with
these texts for centuries.
So Ishmael is very important, caught, he was definitely under the covenant of God, which was a blessing and God promised Abraham that he will multiply into many nations and bless him, he will be blessed by God. So for that reason, Prophet Mohammed was part of that particular blessing as we will see in the coming text, Deuteronomy 33 two which Samuel talked about, there are three locations mentioned there.
As you mentioned, clearly, these three locations are also mentioned in Habakkuk. Actually one of them peran. In particular, I'm concerned with peran.
Where are these locations? If you look at the map
This is where they are according to geographers, Sinai biblical geographers, I mean Sinai is in Egypt and he refers to Moses. Right? Sire is in Palestine is a mountain range in Palestine. Quran is Arabia. Now there is some confusion about Quran whether it is
in the Sinai Peninsula or whether it is actually in main land Arabia, that that question will be resolved later on. Sinai refers to Moses, as it is clear, Sire, is a mountain range in Palestine. As you can see, clearly, it refers to Jesus Christ because Moses never came to Palestine in his life. He never made it to Palestine. So sire cannot be a reference to Moses. It has to be a reference to Jesus. So who is the third person? parent? What happened in Peron? Peron is according to most biblical scholars is Arabia. Without a doubt what happened in Arabia is the question. When we look at
the prophecy, it states and this is the blessing were with Moses, the man of God blessed, bless it, sorry, bless the children of Israel before his death. And he said, the Lord came from Sinai. This is a prophecy By the way, and rose up from sire onto them. He shined forth from Mount Paran. And he came with 10,000 of saints, from his right hand went a fiery law.
So three locations clearly,
just like we have prophecies about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, and we put so much stress on those prophecies and do our best to prove why they refer to Jesus like that. We are showing the Christians as to why we believe this particular passage cannot be possibly talking about anyone else, but three persons Moses, Jesus. And Peron refers to Muhammad, because he is the most powerful prophet who came from Arabia. And when Samuel said that there is nothing, please mark the words. There is nothing about Mohammed in the Bible. Right? That's the symbol said, If I understood him correctly, there's nothing about Mohammed in the Bible. Can you imagine that? Christians claim that
there are 1000s of prophecies about minor events, even the Pope, some of the Pope's are foretold in the Bible. And there's nothing about such a great man. Such a great man who created one of the most magnificent civilizations in human history, whose people who follow us govern from northern China all the way up to Spain. For over 1000 years, they created a civilization of an unprecedented scale, with hundreds of 1000s of people flourishing with bookmaking book collecting scientists, philosophers, thinkers, points, Jewish scholars, Christian scholars living in harmony with Muslims, under the domain of Islam for over 1000 years. What happened to that civilizing? There's nothing in
the Bible about that. Does that make sense? It doesn't make sense. A Bible is the Word of God partly which we do believe it is. Then where is the prophecy about such a great man who did such great things?
The question Christians ever see anything positive in the life of Prophet Muhammad, all his teachings about orphans, widows,
his eradication of poverty, his defense of the rights of women, his defense of the rights of animals, him talking about climate, how we have to defend and protect his his teachings about forestation, not deforestation, rather forestation, all these positive things.
There's nothing in the Bible about this person who taught so many noble things
you should know a man or a prophet by his fruits, right? And of course, many Christians are not told about this food unfortunately. But this is the job of the Muslims we have to tell you about this food so that you can actually go and assess this person yourself. So Habakkuk three, three, chapter three, verse three, it also talks about something to do with Arabia. Taemin is northern Arabia according to Biblical geographers, where Prophet Mohammed migrated and the city of Medina is very close to Taman actually isn't the value of tamer
and Salah is a mountain in the city of Medina if you were to Google Salah right now, you will come up or what will come up is a Wikipedia page.
And when you see Salah, Salah is a mountain in Medina
so salah and then peran is also mentioned so three locations Taman
Salah how much time Yeah, one minute
and Quran three locations.
Okay Salah is very specific to Medina. Taman is the valley and peran is the region
This is very, very clear. So even cannot chronologically if you look at this prophecy in Deuteronomy 1818. You see what's happening here? Okay?
Lord came. This doesn't mean God himself came, but rather his people His prophets came. This is the biblical language. This is all Bible speaks. Lord Cain, right. This is Moses, he rose up, this is Jesus and he shined forth like the midday from Arabia, something happened in Arabia. And we will see when I come back for the second rebuttal, what happened in Arabia? So what have you seen so far, we have seen that Arabia is very special in the Bible, there is something happening in Arabia. And
the question is, why is Arabia so important in the Bible? What happened there? If there was a prophet there? Is he important is he foretold in the Bible, and the remaining part will be discussed in the first rebuttal. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Adnan. We're now going to have a series of rebuttals. We'll have a first rebuttal of 10 minutes each, and then a second rebuttal of five minutes. So bite Sam up to have his first rebuttal.
Okay, I'm just gonna set up here.
Okay, well, thank you Adnan. Great to be speaking with you again, or go through the points that you raised. Your first point was the Muslim view of the Bible. And in one sense, I think that that has a lot to do with this, I just got back to where I was, probably should have gone there beforehand.
when the Quran makes claims about the Bible, it is very common for Muslims to say if the claim doesn't seem to be working out, or but the Bible's being changed. And it's just what we hear as Christians all the time, you know, the Quran claims something, we look at it, it doesn't seem to be true, all the Bible's being changed. And, and really, in many ways, that's what's sort of got lost my place here.
This is one of the issues that we have to deal with, in that. It's very common for there to be three responses to Mohammed not being found in the Bible. The first is to say, well, the Bible's been changed, and it's not reliable. And that's why he's sort of not there as clear as you might think. The second is to say well is to an attempt to do it. And that's what a lot of books do. But the third one is actually the Gospel of Barnabas and the gospel, according to Islam with Muslim leaders have actually rewritten the gospel to make it for till the coming of Mohammed. And so that this sort of dismissing of the Bible is a common thing that we have to, that Christians have to face. And I
guess I just want to say, I don't think it helps our dialogue, that whenever
that whenever, you know, we say something from the Bible, you say, well, it's been changed. When I've read the Quran, it actually says that each community has its own book, and it's to judge by its own book that Christians have the gospel that Jesus had, it actually says that explicitly, there's to be no distinction made between any of the holy books, God's word cannot be changed. Jews and Christians are to read their books, even Mohammed and Muslims can read the books. And whereas we've seen Muhammad is foretold in there.
And so that this is one of the things as Christians that when we're having dialogue, the Bible's often attacked as a way of just excusing why the evidence for Islam is not there. You mentioned the Apostle Paul being a false prophet. I just want to point out, as I showed in my diagram that, Paul, Christians don't just read Paul, Christians actually read all of the prophets. And this is what's different between Christianity and Islam. Let me just get here. Where are you? There we go. The Bible is not just the Apostle Paul, the Bible has the law of Moses, it has the books of the prophets. It has the Psalms of David, the books of the gospel. Christians actually believe all the
prophets and we're the ones who read them. We don't have one man telling us what to believe about the other prophets. We actually read all the prophets ourselves, and that's what the Bible is, it's actually all the profits. Now, the idea that, Jesus, there's no prophecy in the Old Testament, that Jesus is mentioned by name directly
is it's in Zechariah chapter six, where, at the return of the exile, a man named Yeshua or Jesus is given a symbolic event. It's Zechariah, chapter six, verse 11. And what happens is that the Prophet comes up to this priest, and he makes a crown. And he says to the priest, I'm going to put this crown on your head, Joshua, and you're going to be a priest who rules and there's going to be a harmony between the priest, the priest and the king are going to come together. And it's Zechariah chapter six, verse 11. And the man that that happens to His name is Jesus, His name is Jesus. And it says in Zechariah, that he is a prophecy of what God is going to do in the future. So there actually
is a prophecy of for the priest King coming in the future called Jesus.
You mentioned how Christians force interpretations of the old testament to make them foretell the coming of Jesus. My problem with you saying that is that Muslims are made to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And so the the prophecies in the Old Testament in the Torah, and in the Jewish scriptures that are about Jesus, I thought you'd be with us in saying, Jesus is the Messiah, they are about him. And so I'm not sure why you want to say that, you know, the, looking at the looking at the Old Testament, and that Christians are forcing an interpretation when you should be agreeing with us that Jesus is the Messiah.
I'll move on to Ishmael. You mentioned that Ishmael
was originally part of the covenant. I'll look at a couple of verses with this. The first is that the book of Genesis is clear that Ishmael along with all of Abraham's children, is going to be blessed. So there's no, there's no doubt about that. But in verse 19, it says, God said, No, your wife Sarah, say, God speaking to Abraham, your wife, Sarah will bear you a son, and you will name him Isaac, I will confirm my covenant with him as a permanent covenant for his future offspring. As for Ishmael, I have heard you, I will certainly bless him, I will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He will father tribal leaders, and I will make him into a great nation. But I will confirm
my covenant with Isaac. And so we see there that the Bible is clear that the covenant just doesn't go to everyone. It goes to who God chooses. And it doesn't go to Ishmael. It goes to Isaac. And we actually see this in the next generation. Because when Isaac has children, he has two sons, Esau and Jacob. And even though Jacob is the firstborn, the covenant goes to Jacob. And it's God showing that he chooses, and he is sovereign in who he chooses. And so we see this pattern elsewhere. It's not just with, with Ishmael, it's with others. You mentioned that the story of that what I've read here is being changed. And you're talking about, you know, the the Jewish scholars after the exilic
period, were changing the scriptures, I want some evidence that it has actually been changed, not just from someone saying, it has been some textual evidence. And the evidence you gave was from chapter 21. Were you saying that the story doesn't make sense because
Ishmael, who's a young man is being carried by his mother, but that's not actually what she's carrying. She's carrying the water. If you go and read the story, so it's verse 14, early in the morning, Abraham got up to bread and a wine skin, put them on Hagar shoulder and sent her away with the boy, he's not putting this boy on her shoulders, he's putting the food supplies on her shoulders, and then they're going off. So there's no evidence that the story has been changed. The story is consistent, that it's God's sovereign choice. Who He who he chooses, and who he establishes his covenant with.
Right now, aren't you just a side point you're saying that we, you know, Christians find nothing positive in Mohammed nothing positive to say about him? Well, that's sort of not the discussion tonight. Tonight. The discussion is easy for told in the Bible. I enjoy writing Arabic. I've been learning Arabic. I studied this diverse for tonight in Arabic, and so I enjoy writing it and learning the language, or I don't have any problem with it. But it's just not the topic of tonight. So you know, I see positive things in Islam, but that's just not the topic tonight. You also mentioned if Mohammed,
Mohammed is such a great figure,
then why isn't he mentioned in the Bible? Why isn't he mentioned, you know, well, all I can say is and you know, you're saying people say that
Pope's in there, and everything was outside the Pope's not in there. That's just Christians being silly when they say the Pope's predicted in there, people try to foretell everything from the Bible because it gives them a justification. But if we're going to say why is it Muhammad in there? You know, why isn't the computer in there? Why isn't space traveling, you know that there's a lot of things we could say which are big and significant. And so it's not really a reason to say, Well, he's not in there. So, you know, the Bible, you know, he shouldn't be in there. Well, we can't tell God what he's going to put in. The Quran doesn't talk about space travel or computers either. So,
you know, it talks about a certain subject, and it's fine for us to talk about that subject. That's okay.
Finally, when we were looking at Deuteronomy 33, and those three locations, I'll just finish up with this, where we were looking at Sinai, sia and paren. I just want to say again, that that verse is not talking about profits. It's not talking about revelation. It's talking about the places that the Israelites went as they came out of Egypt, and how God was with them. And so it, you know, if it said, These people represent profits, then sure, but it's just not saying that, so I don't think we can read that into it. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Samuel.
Now have 10 minutes for his first rebuttal.
sorry, what happened?
You deleted these ones?
Okay. Do I press Enter?
Before you start?
Thank you, Samuel Bismillah R. Rahman R. Rahim. Thank you very much for that rebuttal. I'll quickly pick on few points. And then we'll move on to my presentation.
You said we don't accept Jesus and the prophecies about him in the Bible. I said we do. I don't think you heard me.
Clearly, we do accept prophecies about Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, when they talk about the Messiah, definitely 100%. We accept them. Right? Likewise, we accept prophecies about Prophet Muhammad in the Old Testament, when they do talk about him. When a prophet from Arabia is clearly foretold, it can't be anyone else. And if Mohammed was a false prophet, God forbid.
Then he was a very big false prophet.
Very, very, very dangerous, false prophet. Right? Because he did so many great things. He did so many noble things. He fulfilled so many prophecies, and he made so many prophecies that came to pass, to prove him to be a false prophet is not an easy task. And this is why we are Muslims. We are not Muslims, because we were born into Islam and Muslim families, not myself, not me. Right, we have studied, I have studied the biblical text for the last
at least 15 years. So we do accept those prophecies. When it comes to textual evidence of the the corruption of the Bible, or the text of the text of the Bible, Jeremiah eight eight prophet Jeremiah talks about it that the scribes of the law have corrupted, the corrupting pen has corrupted the law. Now you can come back and explain to us as to what that means. And this is not again, a discussion on the corruption of the Bible. I have debates, I've had debates with Christian scholars on that point. With regards to covenant, I'm not going to indulge in that again. There are many passages in the Old Testament in the book of Genesis and onwards, where the biblical text is simply not
consistent. For example, one giving a one shot who is the second who is the sacrifice son, according to the biblical text.
He is supposed to be the the firstborn, or the only child of Abraham according to the text, right? But that was not true. When Isaac was born, Ishmael was already 13 years old. So Ishmael was the firstborn. So the sacrifice child could not be Isaac, either Isaac was not the firstborn, or he was not the sacrificed child. These are some inconsistencies in the text of the Bible regards to with regards to covenant.
Then you mentioned few things about bredrin. When it refers to I will raise you up a prophet from your brethren. You said it has to be Israelites. No in
The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 23, verse seven edomites, who are not Israelites are called the broad reign of Israelites, but that virtue the Israelites are more of brother ins for Israelites than edomites are right. So, all I have to do is show you one example in the Bible way and other people are referred to as Brent as the brother of Israelites. My job is done my cases, My mission is accomplished to show you that the Israelites the Arabs are the brethren of the Israelites. By that reason, by that reasoning, this prophecy definitely refers to Prophet Mohammed. Right? So in 1818, we are told that they will be a prophet like Moses, God promised that a prophet like Moses will come
not from the Israelites necessarily, but from the brethren of the Israelites. And what is Moses like? Christians, a lot of the time claim that this is Jesus, and I will see why it cannot be Jesus. Why it has to be Prophet Mohammed, we will see a Moses like prophet.
Moses and Mohammed both had parents and had natural birth, Jesus did not. Moses and Mohammed both married and our children, Jesus did not. Both were eventually accepted by the people, and the people followed them. Jesus did not have that privilege, both governed in this world as rulers and established order. They applied the God given law. Jesus did not. In fact, Jesus said, My Kingdom of is not of this world. When he was put in front of Pontius Pilate, he said, My kingdom is not of this world when the adulterous was brought to him for adultery, although the passage is, according to many biblical scholars is an interpolation that particular stories and interpolation into the text
of the Bible, it's a corruption. But because you believe in it is in your Bible, I will use it. Jesus refused to stone her. Why? Because he said in front of Pontius Pilate, My kingdom is not of this world. He was unlike Moses for that reason. Both were law givers and brought new laws.
And this law was foretold in the book of Isaiah 42, which Samuel, for some reason, amazingly, didn't even mention in his rebuttal or in his response to the Muslim claims. Isaiah 42 is the most powerful reference to Prophet Mohammed in the Bible, we will see why I say that
both led migrations of their followers, both migrated or emigrated, both defeated the enemies, both of them were triumphant against the enemies, Moses defeated Pharaoh, by the help of God, more Prophet Muhammad was triumphant against his enemies within his life. His armies are already fighting the Romans.
Both defeated enemies both died of natural causes while in power and were buried, unlike Jesus, both for humans, not God, unlike Jesus as the Christians claim, right? Christians claim Jesus God, so how is he like Moses, if he's God, Moses was not God, even though Moses is the only human
who is called God, in a singular way, in a single sense.
In the entire text of the Bible, in the book of Exodus, chapter seven, verse one, God tells Moses that I have made you a god to Pharaoh with small G, right? So if anyone should be God, according to the Bible, it should be Moses, not Jesus. Because Jesus is not called God by himself anywhere in the text of the Bible. Both became prophets at 40. Unlike Jesus, Jesus is a prophet when he was born. We believe that according to the Quran, we are told Jesus was a prophet of God in the cradle, he defended his mother from the cradle. So these are some very powerful points that need your consideration. So Jesus is nothing like Moses. In fact, Jesus never claimed to be like Moses, Jesus
never claimed to be that Prophet foretold in Deuteronomy 1818, that Prophet never came. If Muhammad is not a true prophet of God, that prophecy remains unfulfilled. john the baptist, refuse to accept that he was that prophet SAW did Jesus because Jesus was the Christ, self confessedly, Jesus was the Christ, if he was the Christ, he could not be that Prophet. Who is that Prophet? Who is that Prophet? Again, Deuteronomy 3410 tells us
and they arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses and Samaritan Torah, if you read it, it says, they will never arise such a prophet in Israel, if not in Israel, then where is the question in the broad reign of the Israelites, the Arabs? So we go to Isaiah 42. Now, Isaiah has some very interesting prophecies. The most powerful one, in my opinion is Isaiah 42, which mentions
some very specific points with regards to this person who is coming from Arabia. Why do I say that? These are some of the qualities mentioned in the entire chapter when you read the chapter and if you know the life of the Prophet of Islam, Prophet Muhammad, you will see him in this prophecy, no one else. Why? Because it specifically mentions his location. Specifically, it's not even vague. It is very specific with all the qualities he came with. He was the chosen one, we are told, from his own biography that he was the chosen one of God, he was very gentle in his behavior. If we were to believe all the stories, Samuel has been writing on Islam, answering Islam, in his articles because
he uses a lot of
inauthentic or unauthentic, informal Islamic information to make a lot of his arguments. If he was to read the authentic stuff, he would come to realize that Prophet Muhammad was a very gentle man. He was a very gentle man.
He brought judgment for the earth, his people governed from one corner of the earth, Earth to the other, his law, the Hebrew word there in the prophecies the Torah, and this is a Torah after the Torah of Moses and no Israelite prophet ever claimed to abroad another Torah. This is a new law, which this prophet this prophet King will bring. Christopher north is a biblical scholars, specifically specializing in the book of Isaiah in his commentary on this particular passage, in his book, suffering, suffering servant, indietro Isaiah suffering servant and neutral as I have published by the Oxford University in the University Press, he stated that this judgment is
something like the Arab Deen or the Arabic,
religion or Islam. This is what he said, Islam we use the word Islam. So this new law came with no one else. But Prophet Mohammed is a comprehensive law. Islam is a very comprehensive way of life. He came, he will come as a light for Gentiles, he will put idol worshipers to shame. And he has something to do with Qaeda where the people of Qaeda al Qaeda or the second son of Ishmael, according to the book of Genesis, chapter 25, verse 13, k dollar was the second son of Ishmael a direct ancestor of the Prophet of Islam, Prophet Mohammed, according to the biography of Prophet Muhammad himself. So Kay dar was in Arabia, Prophet Mohammed was a direct descendant. This
particular passage mentions the location directly and it mentions the mount seller, which is in Medina, and he will triumph against his enemies and he will be a messenger of God, all of these things put together, if they do not fit, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, then they do not fit anyone else in the history of humanity. Thank you very much for listening.
Thank you all done. We're now gonna move on to our second round of rebuttals, which will go for five minutes each.
Okay, thank you. Amen. Excellent.
So let's look at each of these points in these brief five minutes that I have now, ad name correctly pointed to the fact that the edomites are referred to as the brothers of brother nation to the Israelites. And and that is true. And I fully acknowledge that. But that doesn't prove your point, because we need to read in context. And as I pointed out, when I was looking at Deuteronomy 1818, that when we read the verses in context, they're talking about leadership in Israel. And it's talking about the judges, the kings, the priests, the prophets, and they're all from the brothers. Now, it's not saying that they're going to have a termites ruling over them. Now, it's saying
they're going to be a brother Israelite. That's just what the context says. So the word brother can mean the termites in Israel. So I agree that it can mean that. But when we read it in context, it's repeated several times, that it's referring to a brother Israelite.
My second point was that I want to bring up was your saying that there's, there was Elijah to come, the Christ and the prophet and that there needs to be three? Well, there actually doesn't need to be three. So for instance, King David is the Messiah of the Old Testament. He's called one of them. He's one of the Messiah. There's a whole series of messiahs in the Old Testament. And David is a prophet.
Who gave the the sobs who wrote the Psalms for us. And so he we see that the Prophet King is actually a biblical model of what the Messiah is just in the same way that the Messiah is going to be a priest in Zechariah six, which I showed you, the priesthood comes into the to the king. So too, we see that the the prophethood, comes into the king as well, in David because he was the Messiah, and he was the Prophet King. In the Transfiguration accounts of Jesus, where he's exalted on the Mount of Transfiguration. God actually quotes Deuteronomy 1818, and says, This is my son, listen to him. And so it's a combination of two quotes from the Old Testament. And it actually identifies
Jesus as the as the Messiah, Prophet.
Now, in terms of the Bible being corrupted, I think that we need to, as I said, that this often comes up. And we do need to be honest with this, because I think a lot of Muslims will just assume, you know, the Bible is you know, corrupted, and, and so we don't have to worry about it. But in the early centuries of Islam, there were synoptic, currents, different currents collected by different companions. These were standard standardized into one Quran. And then even today, there are 10 different karats, which have different Arabic re citations of the Quran used around the world today, I've actually got a set of it's a book which lists all the variants, and there's over 10,000
variants. So the Quran that we have here that I've got today, that's just one amongst many different Arabic versions that are out there. And and so if we're going to attack the Bible, I need to say something about the Quran, otherwise, you're going to get a false impression that there's one Quran, and the Bible is corrupted, that's actually not the case. And I've got a leaflet for upper back.
Now was Muhammad like, more like Moses, then Jesus, you said, well, Mohammed was like Moses in this way, and Jesus wasn't. And look, you can certainly make those comparisons. But in the end, you end up choosing the things that you think best because I can make a different list list. I can say, Jesus agreed with the the basic teaching of of Moses, the idea of a sacrifice for sin, the image of God, all those things that I had in that table before. Jesus agrees with Mohammed, that Jesus agrees with Moses, Mohammed doesn't agree with Moses. We've also got the fact that Jesus and Moses are both Israelites. And both of them were known for the miraculous signs that they gave, whereas Muhammad in
the Quran is a What is it?
That there's a whole series of series extra or had budgeted diversity, but I'm not going to find it now. And this had doubts about Muhammad, not giving signs but that the Quran is his only site. And so Deuteronomy 30, I think it's generally 33 or 34, the last chapter, it says, No profits come like Moses, who did all the signs like him. And that's the truth comparison. Mohammed just didn't do that. Isaiah 42. It actually says that if you read the rest of Isaiah, particularly Isaiah 49, it identifies the servant, as the nation of Israel, and as the Faithful Remnant within Israel. And so if we just read Isaiah, and say, who is the servant, we come to the answer that it's the faithful
Israelite, who in the end is the Messiah, King of Israel? I need to finish there. Thank you.
Thank you, Sam. Now I'm
on the Rahim. Thank you, Samuel for another passionate presentation very quickly, because time is very short. You said the last point was Isaiah is referring to the nation of Israel, not to one particular servant, I want you to now apply the same standards, same criteria, to the prophecy you always use for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Isaiah 53. There, you claim that this prophecy refers to one person Jesus Christ, here when it comes to Isaiah 42, which clearly talks about one person, Isaiah 53, is very, very vague. Jewish rabbis have argued for centuries that this refers to the State of Israel or not the State of Israel, sorry, the tribe of Israel, the tribe of Israel, the
Israelites in general. But the Christians is this No, this is about Jesus Christ. You said, servant in Isaiah means the tribe of Israel. Is that correct? Am I misquoting Samuel? No. Okay, so if that's the case, then Jesus is not the person foretold in Isaiah 53. And we will shake hands on that later on, because this is what we say as well. Right? Okay, different Korans.
Okay, to put it simply find me one manuscript out of all the hundreds of 1000s of manuscripts we have in the world, in any library on the planet, any manuscript of the Quran fall from the first three centuries of Islam. Find me one manuscript that contains the versus, or that admits versus we find in the Quran today. This is a very clear challenge. And no one can mistake, you know, you can't misunderstand my challenge is very simple. Find me any verses in the Quran there on the table, which cannot be found in any of the manuscripts around the world, anywhere in the world. Now, asked me to put the same challenge about your Bible in the table, and the manuscripts in the Christian world,
you will never put that challenge to me. And I dare Samuel to come back and put the challenge to me. If Samuel does not put that challenge to me, that means my case is done. Right? So Jesus agrees with Moses, no, he does not. If Jesus is a Trinitarian, which you claim he was. Jesus does not agree with Moses, he went against the basic tenets of the faith of Moses, Moses taught here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God. Jesus taught the same thing, by the way, we believe he taught the same thing. But later on, Christians claimed he was actually a secret closet Trinitarian. He never taught the Trinity, but he actually believed in it, he meant it. And he was playing games with his worth words,
with his disciples not teaching them the Trinity, clearly, clearly enough for them to actually believe in it all stated clearly, in the first three centuries of Christianity, this topic will be debated indirectly, the day after, tomorrow, the Gospel of Barnabas was written by Muslims.
really give me the name of the Muslim who wrote the Gospel of Barnabas. As far as I know, the earliest manuscript of the Gospel of Barnabas is from the 16th century it was written by a man called fra Marino. Right? And none of them claimed that it was actually written by a Muslim. Right, and we don't have to use it. I never mentioned it. That was like a straw man. argument. I never mentioned the Gospel of Barnabas, I don't claim for it to be authoritative. It is just a text out there, and we don't have to believe in it. We don't have to even follow it. It is not our gospel. By the way. The four gospels, as they are, are enough for us to show why Prophet Mohammed is a true
prophet of God coming to power kalidasa, the comforter.
Jesus said in the Gospel of john, allegedly in the chapter, chapter 16, that I will send you another comforter, the Christians claim that that is the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is already there. There are so many passages in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit was already there functioning. Jesus said, another comforter, another that means someone other than the holy spirit that's already frequenting the planet, right? This cannot be the same comforter. And if this is another comforter, and comforter actually Paraclete in the Greek language actually means advocate, because when the same word is translated in the same Bible, on the table, they're referring to Jesus in the first
epistle of john. He is referred to as medically Jesus is called the parakeet in the first epistle of john. There, the word is translated as advocate. In the Gospel of john chapter 16. The term is translated as comforter. I say they both mean advocate. advocate means shaffir in the Arabic language, the intercessor. And this is exactly what the Muslims believe that the prophet of Islam Prophet Muhammad will intercede on the part of his followers. So para Cletus, of Paraclete was no one other than the prophet of Islam, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him even Jesus before he went, he said, he will glorify me, no one glorified and defended Jesus more than the prophet of Islam,
because he received the text from God. And Quran defends the mother of Jesus in an entire chapter, chapter 19. And the Quran defends Jesus against all the false charges against him. Thank you so much for listening.
We're now coming to the question and answer segment of this evening. We're going to have 25 minutes for you guys, the audience to submit some questions as the screen says.
Questions for Sam and questions for Adnan both go to two different numbers. So try not to mix them up. Each speaker will have three minutes to respond to a question, and they'll just come up at different times. So please get those questions in. We'll start with Sam first. Believe and then has that phone
Okay, um, so one question for you is regarding the profit that is mentioned in the book of john 124. You said that they can be the same person. But if you read seven, john, chapter seven, verse 40, it says, Some said that this is the Prophet, and others said, this is the Christ. Now, why would the Jews make this distinction? If this is the same person? Why would they not say this is the Christ and the Prophet, but they said, once said this, that he's a prophet. And now that said, that he is the Christ. So there is a distinction between the two
will simply say that,
when God says he's going to send, you know, the priests, the prophet, the king, all these people, exactly how God fulfills, that is according to how he wants to fulfill it. And people may have thought that people absolutely thought that but that doesn't mean it's right just because just because it records a Jew saying, We easy this or easy that that doesn't mean that they can't be the same. As I've shown with King David. King David was the Messiah, and he's also the
he's also the Prophet. And so in the Bible, he is both a king and a messiah and a prophet. And we actually see this happening with the Messiah in that as I showed before, from Zechariah, six, and it's also Psalm 110. Not only does the Messiah have this prophetic role, but he also has a priestly role. And so, we see that the the officers of priest, Prophet King are coming in, in the in the previous prophets before Jesus on the Messiah in terms of when God is speaking about the future.
So just because people in the just because the Bible records people thought it could be this or it could be that doesn't mean it is we've got to see how it comes together itself. And there's precedent for that in the Old Testament.
Hi, my name is David, I work with the Christian Union on campus.
I think it's a short question. So I'm going to ask this one and then I'll and then you can tell me if you think it's a short one, and I'll ask you another one. There's just a question What does unlettered mean? That the Prophet Mohammed is unleaded? The longer question I think that you'd rather answer is, do we have any record of Jesus Himself, foretelling Mohammed or creating an expectation of a new prophet?
Do we have any record of Jesus Himself, foretelling Mohammed, or creating an expectation of a new prophet?
presentation very quick.
Three minutes, right.
Okay, very quickly, answer your first question. unlettered means someone who doesn't know how to read and write, okay? unlettered, doesn't necessarily mean illiterate. And this refers to the prophecy in the book of Isaiah chapter 29, verse 12, it states when the book is given to the one who has not learned and it is said to him read, and he will say, I am not learner. This is exactly what happened to Prophet Mohammed in the cave of era, when the angel Gabriel appeared to him and said to him, read ekra in the Arabic language, he said, ma BFR in I am not learned, this is what he said, I am not learned exactly the same words. And for that reason, when he went to the city of Mecca, and
he said, What happened? in the cave, he told exactly, I mean, he told what happened. He told a scholar, a biblical scholar who was in the in the city of Mecca, his name was wakaba nofal. worker told him how the nomos alladhina Zilla Allahu Allah Musa, this is the same spirit that came upon Moses. So you are that prophet who is foretold in the Scripture, because this particular incident is foretold in the Scripture. So that's your first
answer. And the second is, these are the passages where you can see a Jesus is telling of someone coming in the future, with certain qualities, and the qualities are what
the spirit of truth has come, He will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak of himself, just like Deuteronomy 1818 as it states that this person will not speak of himself rather he will speak from what he receives from God. Right The Quran tells us directly Amaya, Antigua and El Hawa in who are in love you ha Mohammed does not speak from his desires. rather he tells people what he received from God, Revelation, right, He will not speak for him. But he but but whatsoever he shall hear Shelly speak and he will show you things to come. In other words, he will
Made make prophecies which Prophet Mohammed did and they have come to pass. He shall glorify, glorify Me, for he shall receive of mine and shall show show on to you. So he will glorify Jesus Christ. Why would an Arab man and Ishmael is a direct descendant of Ishmael through Hadar mentioned in Isaiah 42? Clearly that something is happening in the region of Kdr. Why specifically Kadir, the villages of Kadir why not the villages of Amazon, China, Mongolia, and some somewhere in Siberia or somewhere in southern Africa or even Aboriginal Australia at that time? You know, when I'm sure there were people in Australia that time, you know, in the seventh century, or before that, why not
them why Qaeda are in particular one people, one specific people?
Because Prophet Muhammad was to come from them, direct descendant of Qaeda number 60. From Kadir according to his own genealogies. My time is up. Almost right. I'll take that few seconds very quickly. So this is the answer to your question that that Paraclete foretold, was not Jesus and the term prophet by the way.
Jesus is a prophet, he's not the Prophet, you have to note that whenever Jesus Jesus is mentioned in the New Testament, as a prophet is mentioned, a Prophet Jesus a is a prophet, he's not the Prophet. I mentioned the Prophet, referring to Deuteronomy 1818, that Prophet was the Prophet, because the Israelites had had many prophets, but they are talking about the prophet who is the Prophet, the prophet is the one who will come with a law as foretold in the Bible. Thank you.
So Samuel, you said that the counselor is the Holy Spirit, if I'm not mistaken, but then how do you reconcile this with john 1613? When it says, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth? He will not speak of his own authority. So how can the comfortable which is the Holy Spirit not speak of his own authority?
Show will my my point was that my point with that was,
Jesus clearly identifies the counselor as the Holy Spirit. Okay, so that's the first of the three steps to the answer. Jesus identifies this, the spirit as the let me just get this he, he speaks about the Holy Spirit as the counselor.
I'm not going to find this Mr.
Here we go. Oh, there it is. And so he speaks that the Holy Spirit is the counselor. And then what I showed was that the way the Holy Spirit is described in the Quran is basically the same as how it's described in john chapter 14. And so I'm saying that if we let the Quran tell us who Jesus is speaking about, that it basically every single point, it lines up with the Holy Spirit in the Quran. And so you could not go from the Quran and say, Jesus from the Quran, Jesus is speaking about Mohammed, if you go from the Quran, you say, Jesus being about the Holy Spirit. Quran has the Holy Spirit, the Bible has the Holy Spirit, they described in pretty well the same way, that that's what
Jesus is speaking about. Now, the Spirit of God, I see what the question is saying. It's saying, if the spirit is his God, how can he not be speaking of his own authority? How come he doesn't speak of his own authority? Well, I think that's just the way that God reveals Himself, He reveals Himself through His Spirit. And so there is this, there is this origin of the revelation coming from God, and He reveals it through His Spirit to us. And the Spirit is spoken of as the breath of God, meaning that he's not created. Right? When the Spirit is the breath of God, it means he's not created. He's actually part of the very nature of God is of the same nature as God. And so this is
how we understand that the spirit that he's described not as being created, but as being of the same nature as God, and He has a role of being the reveal and the Inspire of the prophets. And he brings that revelation, from God to us. Thank you.
What's the significance of winning or losing this argument in the greater context of the future of humanity?
Thank you for that question.
The significance of this dialogue today is paramount for both communities. For those who are believing in a false prophet, they need to abandon the belief in a false prophet. They cannot believe in a false prophet, for those who believe in a true prophet of God must continue to
To believe in that group of God because that's where the success is. Because the Creator of the heavens and the earth who has revealed himself or his teachings, in scriptures at different times in different places, he did that, for the purpose of your guidance for your betterment for your well being in this life and in the Hereafter. When you follow his teachings, and his laws coming from true prophets of God, you will prosper here and in the hereafter. And if you end up following false prophets, then you are unfortunately doomed here. And then in the Hereafter, you need to use your intelligence, listen to us carefully. It's not about winning or losing. It's about guidance. It's
about sympathy. It's about compassion and generosity. This is exactly why we are here. I am here to put the word of the prophets in front of you. It's not i'm not going to I'm not even going to say, I'm here to preach Islam to you. Okay? Because we believe Islam is the religion of all prophets. Islam means submission to God's will. This is what it means and this is what Christians seek to do right? By that virtue, Christians are also Muslims. Right? And looking at the other side of the coin, we are also Christians, we the Muslims as Christian, if being Christian means being compassionate kind for a follower of Jesus Christ, a follower, a follower of true teachings of Jesus
Christ, then we the Muslims are the first Christians. We are the first Christians in the world. We believe in the Messiah, we follow his true teachings, other teachings attributed to him via false preachers and prophets, we will not follow them. Jesus was not God, he did not preach a trinity. He was not a Trinitarian, we're not we are not going to accept that because that goes against all the teachings of the previous prophets.
Having said that, the issue Samuel raised about the Holy Spirit in the Quran in the Bible,
the Holy Spirit in the Quran is Angel Gabriel, it's very, very clear photos in the Quran is Angel Gabriel, the Holy Spirit in the Bible is an unknown entity.
This person or this entity was so unknown, that for as late as the third century Christian scholar was still debating as to what the Holy Spirit is, we don't know, origin, one of the most learned men in the third century, our church father, right in the third century. As for the Holy Spirit, we have no idea what it is, we still have to look into the scripture carefully, to see what the Holy Spirit is. This is the third century 250 years after Jesus Christ, one of the most learned men in Christian history, the teacher of a man called pamphlets, and pamphlets for the teacher of Eusebius, the father of church history. This is the origin I'm talking about. He said, we don't know and sorry
about that I tend to go on.
Before I ask Sam, this next question, I would just like to tell the audience do not go off topic because some of the questions I'm getting are very strange.
Okay, so this person is asking, you mentioned in the beginning that Mohammed did Salallahu alaihe. Salam did not refer to God as a young boy, and therefore cannot be a believer like the rest before him. Isn't that a to edge denied pudding all modern day Christians to question when they use so many names other than Yahoo, I
my point there is that the scripture in Deuteronomy 1818 says, The Prophet must speak in the name of Yahweh. That's what Geronimo 1818 says, must speak in the name of Yahweh. And my first point was that Mohammed did not use that name. And the name in the Bible is important. If you read the Old Testament, it's mentioned I think, 6000 times the name Yahweh, in the name of Yahweh will be known around the world. Now the reason why we, why we today are speaking about the name of Yahweh is because of Jesus. Christians always use this name, Yahweh, we've got posters about it, we've got little things you put around your wrist about Yahweh, we, we read about Yahweh in the scriptures all
the time. And so I don't think it's a double edged sword for Christians, because Jesus gave us that name for God. And we do say, you know, God is, you know,
that the the Almighty and we got El Shaddai. There's a whole range of other names, but they sort of, they're sort of attributes of what he does. He's actual personal, not personal name is yawei. And the fact that Mohammed doesn't know that name is significant, because Deuteronomy 1818 says, The God to use that name, and if you're not using that name, why not? And that's, that's all I'm saying.
Let me echo those thoughts we want. We mainly want to talk questions on the topic that we're discussing tonight. So, the question I want to ask out of the ones that I've received is, could you please address Samuels interpretation or misinterpretation about the message of the prophets in the Bible aligning with either sort of Paul's teaching or Mohammed's teaching?
Thank you for that, that question.
First, let me respond to that question.
Samuels reduction of prophetic messages. And the Bible, if you remember, Samuel put up a chart, he put up a chart, a table to show you the main teachings of the Bible, which Muhammad disagreed with. And if you looked at the chart carefully, majority of the teachings there are from Paul, they're not even from biblical prophets who ran into 1000s of people. And we have many of the writings, not all of them, of course, not all the biblical prophets.
The teachings cannot be found in the Old Testament, but many are still there. Right.
And Samuel comes up with a chart, and majority majority of the chart is from Paul, from the teachings of Paul directly. And this is the problem we have with the Christian view of Jesus Christ. When the Christians look at Jesus today, they look at him through the lens of Paul, they do not look at Jesus Christ from the lens of the Old Testament. That's why they ended up with a divine figure called Jesus, the god man, for example, or Jesus, the god man who died on the cross for the sins of humanity. Okay, and many other things. So, for that reason, he's absolutely right. Samuel is absolutely right that Mohammed did not teach those things. I agree with 100%. Because Muhammad peace
be upon him, did not break away from the biblical tradition, as far as the Old Testament is concerned, and even Jesus Christ.
So did Mohammed use the word yawei? No, he did not. The question is now ladies and gentlemen, prepare for the shock. But pay prepare for the chop? Did Jesus use the word Yahweh?
did Moses do use the word Yahweh? No.
Moses, I thought that was coming.
I was getting a bit passionate.
So Moses did not speak the Hebrew language away. If we were to go back to the language of the Bible, the earliest form we have is the Hebrew language, which is the language of Israelites. Moses did not speak the language we have no idea as to what language Moses spoke, he may have spoken an early version of this language.
The current biblical text is at least 1000 years apart from Moses. The oldest manuscripts we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they date back to the first century BC Moses lives somewhere in the 12th 13th 14th century BC. Right? What language did Moses speak? What language did Jesus speak? What word did he use for God Almighty as a personal name, you will never know. So this argument doesn't work. In fact, Jesus on the cross, if he was on the cross, he used the word Allah He, Allahu Allah Subhan. Allah, He is the same word, which comes from the root word Allah, Allah ilaha illa. He, you know him, they all come from the same word. And these are all biblical words, by the way, thank you
Okay, so the next question, this person feels that you're suffering from the cray cray fallacy known as the argument from hypocrisy, because when Adnan was attacking the Bible's integrity, saying it has been corrupted, you just threw back at him, but the Quran is corrupted, too. So does this mean that you are acknowledging that the Bible has been corrupted in that there are different versions of it? Thank you. And that's a really good question. No, the reason I say quick was I had to do it in that five minutes slot and trying to fit everything in a five minute slot is is difficult. Now the Bible's the way that we know the Bible hasn't been changed is threefold. We have ancient copies of
it, going back to the early centuries of Christianity, and as Adnan pointed out to the Dead Sea Scrolls for the Old Testament before Christianity, and from those manuscripts. We can see it hasn't been rewritten. It just hasn't.
We've then got translations that were made very early. There's the early Greek translation of the Old Testament, and then there's translations of the New Testament into different languages, and they again, testify to what the text
was like, and so we can look at those. And that's what scholars do. And again, they show it hasn't been rewritten. And then finally, we've got quotes that the earliest Christian scholars used when they were quoting the Bible to write their commentaries. And that testifies as well. So we've got a whole range of textual evidence that we use. Now there are small differences amongst the manuscripts are as there are amongst the Quran manuscripts, I've got a leaflet up the back, you can have a look, it's all documented in the
the Christians, there was the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. for Muslims, it was the center manuscripts and these textual variants amongst them, I don't have a problem with that. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem when things are being written out. And that's just how it goes. But what we do, what our scholars do is we look at them, neither the Quran, neither the Bible had been rewritten their texts are sound. And there's evidence to show that now, and so I, my I wasn't being a hypocrite I was answering as quickly as I could. And that's the line of evidence that we have for the Bible, those three things and it shows that the Bible's been well preserved, as I believe the
Quran is as well, I'm not saying that it's corrupted. But I'm saying, if we carry on saying, you know, one textual variant writes the whole thing off. You can't do that, because no book would stand up, including the Quran. Under those circumstances. When you say
this will this will be our last question for tonight, I know that there's been lots more that have come in. We're sorry that we couldn't get to all of those. But obviously, there's a limit. Let me say if you're free, Tuesday night, you should come to the other debate. And then you can ask your question, then.
Why is this one relates to expectation from the, from the biblical texts? Why is Mohammed The only person claimed to be a prophet descended from Ishmael, all the prophets of the Old Testament, and Jesus are from Isaac's descendants confirming God's special relationship with him? Why does Mohammed come after that?
Thank you for that question. We don't claim that all prophets in our actually we don't accept that claim that all prophets in the Bible are Israelites. They're not. In fact, the Jewish scholars will tell you and the Christian scholars it tells you that many Israelite prophets
came, but there were others who are non Israelites joke, for example, okay, Jonah, okay, these are non Israelite prophets. And in fact, there are Ishmael light prophets in the Bible as well. People who came from the descendants of Ishmael, but none of them were like Moses,
that prophet who was being foretold in Deuteronomy 1818, which the Jews were still awaiting, when john the baptist had come when Jesus had come. So what questions did they ask? When they came to john the baptist? They said, Are you one of these three? Are you the Christ, the Messiah, the Messiah?
Elijah, or Elias? Are you that Prophet, or the Prophet?
They were not interested in a profit, they were interested in that profit. And john the baptist denied all three.
You know, possibilities. Jesus was the Christ, as the New Testament clearly testifies, therefore, he could not be that Prophet, because even Jesus was aware of that distinction, never claimed to be that prophet like Moses. In fact, Jesus said, in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter five, verse 17, and Think not that I've come to abolish the law, and the prophets rather have come to fulfill the law and the prophets. Anyone who teaches anything outside of this law, even on a point will be considered leaves in the kingdom of heaven. And later on, Paul comes in abolishing the entire law. Right? That's another question altogether. I don't want to indulge in that. Right. The point here
is, Jesus followed the Mosaic Law, he was a follower of Moses.
Mohammed was not a follower of Moses. In fact, he came with the new law. And that's why it is important for us to remember that. And when it came to Samuel before me what point was discussed before?
Yes, and amazingly, Samuel did not put that challenge to me. Have you noticed?
And I believe Samuel will not put that challenge to me my challenge. I'll repeat it again, that copy of the Bible on his table, please challenge me that show me any passages in that Bible that cannot be found in the ancient biblical manuscripts. And put the same challenge to me on the Quran. It's a consistent challenge, right? I'm being fair, right. I'm doing justice. And I will show you passages that are missing from the earliest manuscripts of the Bible in the Greek language of the New Testament. They are
That Bible on the table, for example, the gospel of john, chapter seven, verse 53, to chapter eight, verse 11, the entire paracasei, adultery, the story of the adulterous caught in the act, it is missing from all the earliest manuscripts of the Bible up to the ninth century who put them in? Who put these verses in the is the question, are they from God? Are they from john, if they're not from john are different God, all these questions are very important. But that's not the debate tonight, by the way.
Alrighty, well, now I have four minutes for each speaker to present their concluding arguments.
Okay, so I want to thank you for coming tonight. It may not have been easy for you. But I hope that you have found it helpful. I hope it is Adnan and myself, have spoken frankly to each other, but in a spirit of love, but in a spirit of seriousness to, because you can be loving and serious at the same time. And as believers in God, we want to be loving and serious at the same time. And so I want to thank you for coming, I want to thank you at noon for coming and that we can have this genuine dialogue, I will now just give a summary of of what I said.
So my first point was that the Quran says that Mohammed is foretold in the Torah and the Gospel, which is with the Christians. And I said that I don't believe it is. Because my first point was that there's a story that goes through the Bible. And it's a story of redemptive history, and how God is going to fulfill all his plans and purposes in the person of the Messiah. And so if Mohammed comes 600 years later, and says, Now it's actually about me, and I'm fulfilling it all that just doesn't fit into the message of the of the Torah, the prophets, the Psalms in the Gospel, the illustration I gave to show you, this was the same way that the bar high profits don't fit into the message of the
Quran. Those prophets who come after Islam, like the bar, high profits, but don't fit into the storyline of the Quran. So that's how it is with Mohammed in the Bible, he just doesn't fit into that story, because they say, the promises of God come to their fulfillment in Jesus, I then looked at a series of verses going through and I can't really go through them now what I encourage you to do is to look further into this yourself, maybe to watch this debate again, and to look at the slides and to to look up the evidence that Adnan and I have put forward so that you can come to your own conclusion because it can be a bit dazzling when you know, verses are being put up, and you
haven't had time to look at them. And it may be that if you want to take this further, you go back and listen. And I encourage you to look at what I said, look at the verses that I've put forward. And to work that out yourself.
I want to defend the table that I've put up here, and I've got it there. Adnan was saying that this is the result of Paul, but I can assure you, Moses taught that were created in the image of God, that's chapter one, Chapter One of the law of Moses, God created us in His image, the fatherhood, in the Son of God, that's in Moses, that's in the book of Exodus, where Israel is called the Son of God, God comes to dwell with his people that's in the law of Moses, that's not an idea from Paul, I won't get through all of them, but that they're not from Paul, we can look up all of those, that table actually is a representation of what the law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms teach. And
just to conclude, I'm more than happy to to debate any of those issues. You're saying, you know, you've said things and I thought you weren't able to respond. Unfortunately, that's the nature of a debate that you can say something and I can't respond and vice versa. That's how debates go and and God willing, we could maybe take up some of these in future events. But thank you again for coming tonight. Again, as I said, we need to take the things of God seriously and I hope that tonight has helped you and and God bless you tonight.
Thank you, Sam. We now have Adnan for his concluding statement.
Thank you very much. mana Rahim. I would like to thank Samuel green again for participating in this debate.
I would like to thank you all for your kindness, for your generosity for your encouragement for your attendance. May God bless you all. And anything we might have said tonight is not intended to hurt you or to insult anyone's faith or anyone's views. Rather, this was an exercise to share our sympathy and love with each other. I am very sure Samuel has sympathy and love for the Muslims. And vice versa. I have a lot of sympathy love, compassion and generosity, for to add some extra words for Christians.
For my Christian, my Christian brothers and sisters in humanity. So the purpose of this exercise was to primarily show that the Muslims and the Christians can, as civilized people come together, share the ideas openly. Okay, and this can be done in the Muslim world as well, by the way,
contrary to what a lot of unfortunate, deceptive Christian missionaries tell you, that there is no freedom in the Muslim world, there is a lot of freedom, I have debated Christians and atheists in Pakistan, right. So this can be done. And this is to be cherished, we must continue with this tradition of sharing our love and compassion with each other. And even if we don't agree with each other, we can go home or go home.
Thinking about what we have said in these discussions in these dialogues and come up with our own conclusions. So coming back to some of the points Samuel raised, but I don't think I'm going to cover them because now time for rebuttal is over. It is now about reaching out to you to go into this topic in more detail and study it. As Samuel rightly rightly pointed out, that it is not possible for us to indulge in these discussions extensively. Because this is a very, very short period for us to cover a lot of content, it is not possible for us to put everything in front of you. There are many, many powerful evidences on the Muslim side when it comes to the prophecy about
Prophet Muhammad. In the Bible behind faith, for example, or the Ahmadis who claim who claimed another prophet after Islam. The reason why we don't take them seriously is because there's nothing about them. Nothing close to what we find in the Bible about an Arabian prophet. In the Bible, we have Claire verse is talking about an Arabian Prophet and the Arabian Savior, someone who will spread judgment on the earth, someone who will put idol worshipers to shame someone who will try and against his enemies, he will have something to do with the children of Qaeda he will come from Salah with a mountain of Salah is Salah is Medina, the city of the Prophet of Islam, right? A prophet like
Moses, the Paraclete, there are so many verses in the Bible. Okay, Arabia, Arabia, Arabia again, and again. Why do we have all these references to Arabia, specifically, in the Bible, that's why we insist that they are talking about an Arabian prophet. I am co authoring a book with two other researchers. And the book is titled Abraham fulfilled.
This book is actually on this very topic. It might be the best research out there on the topic. I'm not trying to be arrogant here, because I've read a lot of books on this topic. And we have collected a lot of useful information for Christians as well as Muslims. So watch out for this book, it may take a while for it to come out, keep following our social media accounts, and you will see the book come out, Abraham fulfilled, right. Three people are offering it currently as we speak. And the book is very, very powerful, a lot more evidence and detail can be found in that book. So I would like to thank you all from the depths of my heart for being such an amazing audience. I am
honored to be in Perth in Australia to speak to such honorable and great people. And I hope we can continue in this spirit for the coming years. And we do away with hate. We reject hate wherever it is, whether it's for Muslims, whether it's Islamophobia, or whether it's Christian phobia, whatever it may be, wherever it is, we have to reject it collectively. Thank you so much for listening when handled in light of anatomy.
Ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the debate tonight. So let's please clap these two gentlemen again.
We hope this has been a really informative and challenging discussion tonight. And we really thank you for coming here. Just a few things we like to highlight. UW a debate is happening next Tuesday. We are selling tickets at the back of just through the door you came $8 and we really look forward to seeing you there the topic will be on is Jesus God. We really also hope that conversations continue out of this discussion. Continue to talk with each other
And we really hope especially for the curtain campus that it begins a good connection between students on campus here. Thank you all for coming. And if you'd like to check out any of the stores or resources out the back, we'd love to have you there. Thank you.