Revert Story of Imam Zaid Shakir
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Speaker 1 describes "vanity dress" as "out of stock" and "vanity dress" as "out of stock" while "vanity dress" is referred to "out of stock" dressings, and a "vanity dress" item Speaker 2 is interested in buying.AI Generated Transcript ©
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many Mina mostly me, you're in one of his houses of worship in Alhamdulillah our Masjid of East Plano and we thank a lot for having finished also not an Orisha and for waiting here for no other reason except to be reminded of him except for the brotherhood of Islam, except to be in the presence of one of insha Allah the inheritors of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, our Senior and our elder Imam Zaid Shaka, who has traveled all the way while he was in Houston. Before that he's in Connecticut in California. He has traveled to the city just to be with us tonight. And he's heading back to Houston, giving the hook over here. It was just a personal favor to us in this
community. So we really appreciate your mom's aides coming all of this way to be amongst us. So welcome to our community moms say
I'm honored to be here may Allah bless everybody, close those who
sacrifice to make this center possible. May Allah give them a big ledger and all of you who take time from your busy comings and goings to come to the masjid to pray. Salam Alikum rahmatullah wa barakato.
So Imams a we have a custom of sometimes going a typic with our guests, people listen to your foot buzzin gurus online and on YouTube. But when we invite our guests we go a little bit deeper. We want to know who our guests are. So we're going to be putting you on the spot this is actually not the comfortable seat this is the hot seat. If you can't take the heat don't get in the kitchen
so we're gonna put you on the hot seat and ask you a little bit more we want to know we want to know more about the Imams a behind the scenes we want to know about. Zaid Shaka pre Islam, early Islam studying Islam and then finally she is an Imam and more often unarmed Masha Allah ze Chaka. So we're gonna we're gonna go all the way back to the beginning. Imam Zaid, can you tell us a little bit about where you were born? And your upbringing and how life was for you? You were born in the 60s, is that correct? No.
50s 50s 50s Okay, so I You look younger than I thought. Okay. So born in the 50s. So tell us a little bit about your pre Islamic upbringing in sha Allah. Okay, this Malay Rahim Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen wa Salatu was Salam. Ala say Eden were sitting say Edie now Muhammad, while add he was happy we'll send him him there I was.
Our mother was one of 13 kids. And my father was one of five. And I don't know a lot about my father's family. That as much as I should, because most of my childhood he wasn't there. But Hamdulillah we, we patched up so but my mother's side. I do know that she was born in Hamilton, Georgia. He was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, which is home of post cereals and Kellogg's General Foods, Kellogg's post the cereal capital of the world. So it attracted a lot of people from from the south. And any case,
so they got married. And
my father joined the Navy. So I was actually born in Berkeley, California. My father was in the Navy on the West Coast, and he was stationed in San Diego. And when he finished his military service, they stayed there. So I was born in California and
one my oldest sister, I'm the second oldest of seven was born in California. And I think my brother under me was born there and then a couple were born. So then he went back to Michigan, and they separated. And
so six of us were born before kind of the definitive separation. So my mother,
she went back home to Georgia. And eventually she was born in a place called Hamilton, Georgia near the Alabama border and the hot heart of the Cotton Belt.
And
her her Actually, her mother Mary twice. So our family is Johnson Spence and Woodworkers. So my grandmother is a Spence, and my her first husband is Johnson and he passed away and then she married
a widow
Her Selma spins in a Whitaker and did Johnson side.
Her first husband's brother killed
Whiteman and Georgia and fled to Alabama and hit him. His name is he was Uncle trigger.
Anyway, so you want family lore.
So, so then they so my youngest sister was born and have meant then
she was pregnant when she left Michigan. And they reconciled and we moved to Connecticut. He had gotten a job at Sears and as a mechanic in West Hartford, Connecticut, we we moved to her new Bretton Woods as a nickname of hard hitting New Britain. It's also called the hardware capital of the world. It was like wall to wall factories, and most of the African American population came from Georgia and South Carolina, to that city. Anyway.
Long story short, so then the REIT can sell them split for good. And then when they split it up, we were kind of stuck in Connecticut. So we would have done a large public housing project called Pinnacle heights. They subsequently tore it down now. It's a big huge magnet school and looks nice. Anyway, so you know, we grew up so then my mother had another child, my youngest brother Jeffrey. So there's seven of us. So we grew up without a father so it was it from the outside looking in, it was probably look like rough circumstances. But when you're living, and you're young, you know, everything's in adventure. So
it was an adventure.
And was she religious was her family religious growing up, my mother was religious, but she went to church every Sunday, she came out of Southern Baptist tradition. But she, she, she, she had our moments of skepticism, I'm sure if she she died in 1975. The year after I graduated high school, my first year of college, I local college, Central Connecticut State. And
I'm sure if she hadn't taken shahada yet, I'm totally confident if she had been exposed to Islam, she would have accepted because there were a nation of Islam was in, in our neighborhood, there was some brothers she admired them, because one was just a thug. Because he moved right up there from from Brooklyn. And, you know, you come from Brooklyn to Connecticut, you you you have to terrorize everybody to establish your reputation, so no one will bother you. So this guy was a terror. And then he joined the Nation of Islam, he became like one of the nicest guys who would give us free papers. Because sometimes my mother didn't have a quarter to get the paper, he give free papers
bring fish. At that time, the Nation of Islam had what they called the fish force, waiting H and G. So it was waiting. They were importing from Peru and then from Japan, and selling it all over poor communities in the United States. And their motto was acquiring H and G straight from the sea, import it from from Peru just for you.
And so, so she admired him tremendously, but she couldn't accept the theology like the Creed was just so crazy or Dr. Yaqoob, the big head, black scientists who grafted the white race on the island of Patmos over the course of 10,000 years and the white man is the devil and Elijah Muhammad is a prophet and Fard Muhammad was God she couldn't just get with that. But she tried but she just couldn't. She's very Was this your first exposure to the name Islam, the Nation of Islam it was but I'll tell you an interesting story. Like when I was in like third or fourth grade, we still have prayer in school every Wednesday this is before the Supreme Court decision. See, I'm that Oh.
So I used to say this. We have to face the Eastern pray to Mecca. I don't know where that came from. But when we were doing the school prayer on Wednesday says we have to face the east and pray to Mecca.
But the nation was the first formal exposure, so I never join. But a lot of my friends there in the nation, then I did think that the thing
things the nation were doing. That's what Muslims had to do. So when I took shahada like we we started making a newspaper to go sell to people. And, you know, we thought that's what that's what Muslims do. You have to go make Dawa. You have to get people to join. And,
and then another I'll tell you another story when I took shahada was in the Air Force. So So So what happened?
So my mother died. And when my mother died, it was like,
Okay, so we're in the project and my sister moved in. And she had two kids at that point. So I just gave them my room, and I was kind of homeless for a minute. And then I tried to go live with my father that didn't work out. And so I joined the military.
And
so I wanted to while I was playing football and track in high school, but I hurt my shoulder fifth game of the senior year. We had a terrible coach. He didn't even tell him tell her tell Malka gets surgery. He's just like, This guy was so terrible. He will come to the projects get all the kids and I we were like winning games for them.
And after your after your seeing the last game of your senior year, this guy didn't know you literally he wouldn't try to get you a scholarship. He would he will pass you in the hallway and not even speak and he will come with his car to pick us up and a project and drive us to school. All our junior senior year after this is a terrible person, but he didn't even say you could get surgeries like just okay. Thank you for your service, like the US military.
Anyway, and so I just started to go to college. I flunked out, because I had no study habits. I only went to school to play sports. If it weren't for sports, I probably wouldn't even have a high school degree. And then I went to college. I had no study habits. I flunked everything. So the midterms came I flunked everything itself weightlifting,
I got an A in weightlifting, I flunked everything else. And then I got a job as a janitor at Southern southern turn. You probably been to southern Connecticut hospital. And this is I was mopping the floor of the lab.
And the lab technicians they were stuck. They couldn't make. They didn't know how to do this particular slide for what they were trying to look at. So we had had a laboratory techniques course in high school. I actually showed them how to make this slide. I quit the next day. So I should be in the lab. They should be mopping the floor.
Seriously. And then so I went back to school, and I just had to teach myself how to study how to do research. Like there was no one helping you. There was no kind of mentorship program though. And then that spring, so the fall semester I dropped out I got a job as a janitor. And then I went, you know, went back in the spring and then towards the end of March, my mother died.
It's interesting because she was she like squirreling away a little bit of money from welfare checks,
which was nothing but she's squirreling away to buy a whole new living room set. And she finally got enough money. And the day they moved all the furniture in she had a massive aneurysm. And then they took her to the hospital and she died a couple days later. And so then I just
I didn't even know if I finished that semester. No, no, I did. And, but I didn't know then, like I said, my sister moved in. So I was just not going well here and there and tried to go live for my father. That wasn't neither one of us was ready for that, at that point, and so I said, I'll just go in the military. So it's called the poverty draft. So you get a free education GI bill to pay for your college and you have a roof over your head you have food to eat Vietnam War was over you didn't have to go kill anybody. or be killed. It's a two way street. Ship right before we get there. So this is now the 70s Right? Go into it right? I'm going into it. All right, yellow. So any, this is
Like 1975 76 Okay, so, you have heard of the nation you have a positive impression of the Nation of Islam. How about Malcolm X Muhammad Ali criado Jabbar, you know the Muslim names of that time? Yeah, Muhammad Ali definitely was a major figure because his his case, you know, he was the people's champ.
But my my mentality when the ALI Frazier Fight of the Century happened, I was actually rooting for at that point for Joe Frazier, because I was like, I was in this
kind of underdog mentality.
But when I was in the military, then I took shahada. At that point, it was the world community of Al Islam in the West under the leadership of the man worth that Deen Mohammed. And then we were like, called Billa. Aliens. Some you might be familiar with that history. What year is this? This is like 1977. So you converted 1977 In the military, while I was in the military based where? Shreveport Louisiana where did you hear about it? Wait, what was the catalyst in 77 Shreveport, Louisiana, and I started somewhere you saw that CBS thing they did with a head like 25 of us? What was one of your pivotal moments. So during that
period, and I had no study habits, I went to a party. The college was like partying. I wasn't Muslim at that point, folks. Someone's gonna tweet out Imam cidade said Muslims your party, as
I'm telling you is stuff is crazy. I'll preempt shaky so right. I use a recently did a podcast right. And I said most of them shouldn't advocate for LGBTQ rights as sodomy is haram. I said
transgender women competing against girls in sports is insane.
So all this stuff, and it ends up
Imams aid is supporting gay rights, you know, so what was I going to say before?
77 Shreveport. Right, right. What's going on? Yeah. Shreveport, Louisiana. So
the catalyst story, how did you convert? Right, right. So I was at the party. So I was not Muslim folks recording. I was not Muslim at the party. All right. So all of you Twitter, people and Instagram people and Facebook people. I was not Muslim. I was at the party. And the party was in Mount Pleasant. Is this another project? So we actually had like, three projects, they were all black and Puerto Rican. And then all the rest that houses will fight folks. So we had Corbin heights, actually, for mela kowski circle, Corbin heights, Pinnacle heights, that's where we live. And Mount Pleasant. Mount Pleasant. We call it sparkle city. Because at that time, there was a
commercial make all of America sparkle city. And so it was so rough there. They couldn't keep getting the grass to grow because the kids would tear it up. And so they paved all the grassy areas and painted it green. And so much glass was broken on it when when the street lights and the lights hit it is sparkle. So we call a Mount Pleasant sparkle city. So I was in Sparco city at this party. And it was real cold. So it was probably like December back. This was pre global warning warming. And my mother was one of the first people to predict global warming.
And this is how she predicted it.
She's She said that
the last couple of winters, the water and that will drain out of the bathtub so slow, it will actually freeze. And as she said, I noticed the last couple of winters that the water hasn't been freezing. So that was the first indicators of global warming. Okay, so this the mid 70s, early 70s, folks, so my mother was one of the first people to predict global warming. Anyway, so.
So Rasulillah so I was leaving.
And then this this little girl. So from from our accent, I assume she was Puerto Rican. And she runs out of her house like and just her pajamas is freezing cold.
And she's like screaming, why doesn't anyone love me? Why doesn't anyone love me? And man, it just it just touched my heart so, so bad. And I say you know we have to do something. We got to change these conditions now.
The people No, no girl 910 years old, should be at this point of despair, where and her voice, like the pain, and just whatever drove her to run out into the cold. Like I said to myself, like, we got to change this. And that's really started me searching. So my first thought it has to be in religion. So we like I said, we came up with a Southern Baptists kind of tradition. And I said, has it been religion? I didn't know anything about what Baptists was, what it meant to be a Baptists. Why did Baptists different from a Catholic Pentecostal,
Lutheran Presbyterians I started studying and when I started studying the Bible, the contradictions were like, so great. Just one quick example. And Matthew, it says in delineating each generation, and he begat him and he was the son of this, from from Abraham to Jesus is 42 generations then in Luke, from Abraham that Jesus had 56 generations. And like, those kinds of things I just concluded this can't be from God is it wouldn't be these kinds of internal contradictions. And so I started looking at the Eastern religions, I went through a phase of Transcendental Meditation. I paid the Maharishi like, $300. To get a mantra, we were like paying a shake to get your Vickers like, my help
to do by his 90th Rolls Royce. But I got my mantra and I'm meditating. I was actually meditating under a tree when my wife first saw me. She's like, that brother looks interesting.
Then I went to this English class, and she was in the class you thought you had a brother that was meditating under the tree. So yeah, that's me. And then like, so she became my girlfriend. Then when I took shahada like no Aki, you can have a girlfriend, like so what are we supposed to do? In like, man, you gotta marry her dumper.
I take option A like, how do you get married? You gotta go to the mom's house. Like, I went to the mom's house probably the next weekend. I got married, and live happily ever after. Mashallah. So that's a romantic.
But you're giving ideas to the youth. As we go out. He's telling kids to meditate under the tree suffered a broken jaw? No.
Allahumma Salli ala Sayidina. Muhammad. Anyways, so yeah, so. So then I started the Eastern religions, I was really deep into the transcendental meditation like this, if you did it long enough, you can start levitating, lifting off. I was like, I lift off stage and I'd be meditating.
And then, but then I like, Man, this is really selfish. I feel so good. I'm getting ready to lift off and but it's not doing anything for the people. And that the urge you go back to the little girl, like we have to change these conditions I grew up. And the older you get, the more realized you realize stuff is wrong. So when you're young, you're like, Okay, I got friends we haven't found you know, we have pet roaches.
Some you know about the pet roaches. And but when you start getting older and you start seeing things, and you start seeing how certain things are designed to point you want a certain direction and delete to certain outcomes, then you realize things have to be changed. And so that just the Transcendental Meditation part, it was really nice. Really, honestly, it felt so good.
But it wasn't doing anything. It had no social program. And then at that point, I got a book on Islam called Islam and focus. You can still find it on the internet. But Hamid Abdullah, studied that book as a child. Yeah, that got me into Islam. Islam and focus I read that I said, it's all here. Because I wanted to know who God was. I forgot an interest of time ah, Spirit also went through this communist phase they were going to change things with a violent revolution. So I went through that phase two,
anyway, but then when I just who is God, what does he want from us? What should be our relationship with God? You know, is Jesus God? It just was a very powerful and moving text. So chef, let me
You so I took shahada and really lived happily ever after. Have the Hila that's true never doubt it. Never. I never doubt it. I mean I know a lot of people doubting going through the I never had one doubt about Islam no faith crisis no nothing It was like hamdulillah last saved me the sit. I found the water so I'm not looking for another beverage hamdulillah so chef, you literally found Islam by consciously searching for the truth. Absolutely. Mashallah. It's a beautiful conversion story. Sure, you went over multiple books, reading, thinking, meditating, contemplating and then it wasn't even a friend. It was literally searching for the truth and reading until finally, you found a book on
Islam and embraced Islam and hamdu mashallah, Mashallah. srif Portia, was there any Masjid? How did you convert? What was the masjid in Shreveport? I was actually in Bowser city on the other side of the Red River. Barksdale Air Force Base, and there was a masjid of the men worth the deen, Mohammed, and Shreveport. So I used to go there. And
Hamdulillah. So how did you think of leaving all of that and studying? This is 77 at that stage who's going to study abroad and studying in Syria? I mean, how did these ideas come to you back then? Well,
so when I got out of the Air Force, at first, or most of my siblings had moved from New Britain, Connecticut to New Haven. So I went to New Haven, but just for a minute, and then I got accepted into American University.
And so I moved to DC and finished my undergrad. I did two years in the military. And then I did two years at American University. And then when I've finished American University, we were going to start actually, I got the day before I was supposed to take the LSAT to go to law school. I decided I'm gonna go to graduate school. I don't want to learn this cat for law. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, I reflect on that moment.
You could have been a lawyer. I could have been a lawyer. The day before the LSAT said, I'm not gonna do this. Well, I can be Manzella law.
Why the moon thirsty?
I can't do it. Anyway. Where do you take these ideas from Chef because you're with the water thing community. They're not preaching this stuff. Yeah, we read in the Quran.
Okay, you can't say any
minion autodidact has been diverted away from law school. Anyway, Jeff, did you have a personal relationship with him? I wanted Then did you know him personally or not? I didn't meet him personally until years later. Okay, so who is your main mentor during this phase in the late 70s, early 80s?
I would say ma'am, Suraj will hedge really Imams because what happened? He was just here two weeks ago on your seat. I'm gonna tell you what happened. So I'm from Connecticut. My wife's from New York. We met in Louisiana at Barksdale Air Force Base under a tree. Well, I was under the tree she first she first spotted me under a tree she was driving a military pickup truck and just stop mashallah, it gets even more romantic. Yeah. Interesting and then kept going. And then we met in the English class. Okay. And but So, anyways, so the masjid that was emailed, warth, edema, Hamid and 19. So when we went home, we will go to master Taqwa.
Subhan Allah because she She, at that point, she was born in Manhattan and moved to Queens then moved to Long Island, but she had joined the nation and she was part of the it was a temple number seven, the big one in Manhattan that Malcolm was over number seven. And so by then, she had made the transition so we will go to mamsa Rogers masjid, and around 1977 Imam Suraj left the movement of men with the Deen Mohammed and start a messy taco. So we will go there and listen to Imam Suraj and I was I just be way in the back and the crowd. No one knew me and listening but I was really taken by Imam Suraj his teachings doing I went to Rutgers for graduate school. So I like so I didn't do the
law school and American University. So I swore we're gonna go to grad school. So I'm from Connecticut, and she's from New York. And so we went to Connecticut. Her family's gonna get mad if we went to New York, my family was gonna get mad so I
went to New Jersey to Rutgers and nobody got mad.
And while we will go to New York for Joomla once in a while we're bringing them Siraj to campus. They're Rutgers University in New Jersey. And so I will say ma'am Suraj now what how I got moved away from the Imam wertha de Mohammed in 1979. I went for Hajj, but the Hajj I went, I was I was in the military at that point. So when I took shahada, I thought you couldn't be in the military because the the case of
Muhammad Ali, and the Supreme Court and the vindication and so I tried to get out as a conscientious objector. But they said we're not at war right now. Because it was objecting to Vietnam, there was a war that said no war, how could you object to war without fighting a war? So I said, then send me to a Muslim country. So they sent me to Turkey so fast, even though a secular, but the people are Muslim, and no one wanted to go to a Muslim country because you couldn't party you can chase the girls, you can do those things. And they want to go to Thailand, Japan, the Philippines, said this fool wants to go to Turkey, send them before he changes his mind. So I went to Turkey and while I
was in Turkey, with my wife, my former girlfriend, we made hudge on the bus and by car to Turkey. I'm from Turkey, you can still do that in those days. This is 1979. And we stopped in Medina because a lot of the students from Medina University will come to Turkey in the summertime because it's so hot down there. And I met this big brother from Uganda, Mohamed Taha who bago I remember his name. And so I said, I'll come visit you. And so when we were driving, we drove from a man to Tabuk and then from Tabuk to Medina. And I actually, I had dinner and remember Mrs. House, Anwar my Haman, Han Allah and they were they were like struggling. You look at him and Anwar, they talk about a family
sacrificing for the deen for the kids. My mother was one of the first American Graduate somebody in a way senior to me so met him and the second one was first African American who fought
half evil who law so I actually visited him. So I was coming out of his house and then there's a group of brothers from Medina University. While at the door, they will come to visit I was leaving. And one of them was a brother, Salahuddin from Miami a big brother, that thing now he's from Springfield, Mass and moved back to Springfield. Anyway, so these brothers, they basically ambushed me. So they they asked me what was etcetera, etcetera. Then what was her dorm going to Hodge and we're going to hook up with the delegation from the world community of Al Islam in the west and when we get to Jeddah, that was the plan. And you Foley Mel was the Mohammed and then I got beat down
because at that point, you know, the man was it was the end of the transition. So he was saying some controversial things. And then and I got
then I was all shaken. I'm like telling my wife You know, I don't know. I can't do this. My wife was defiant. Well, I don't care what you do. If the man goes to Africa, I'm going with you. Like my wife is gonna leave me for my birthday, Mohammed. I'm following the man if he goes Africa I'm going to Africa with him. I don't care what you do. Okay.
I hope you don't have to see this podcast delete that part.
So anyway, has been 40 years you're still scared
we past matches for survive guys, even though we passed that we pass on that. Anyway, so So you know, I gotta kind of skeptical and then Imam Suraj had left a couple years before that. And I kind of drifted away. Then we got involved with this movement. Actually, I found out later they kind of were like the CCO outage, like their slogan was and Lila
and they were they they were like against the Sunnis against the she and I might was this July man's group eventually dry man's group.
Oh no, this was in the states on the states okay. Yeah regiment that Medina guys I want to
meseta leader of the but the it was it was a cottagey group and then that after that then the Iranian Revolution jumped off and we were all down in support of the Revolution like it was like you know water bottle I'm recall more water
for that CUDA CUDA CUDA can Tiller be can be MADI Khomeini Rana guardar as we will like Intuit it because it's like you know that was the revolutionary Marxist part was like resurfacing with an Islamic veneer
that was a phase I people out there all you bloggers and tweeters
are the ones who want to find fault will find fault there's no point describe yourself qualifying for the record. So you know for the record that was a phase and then we went to the Salafi phase so there was so and then knock she bendy phase you're not gonna get that faster at this
because she and Turkey now Turkey default. Default Islam is Hanafi madhhab noxee bendy Toluca and Aruba con was he his shift was an oxy bendy shift so we're in Turkey and CDC are no no no no they were nurses one of the knocks she bonded and Istanbul so you know, so we're in Turkey so we're we're on time off we're going all over visiting these families we went to their they had this Thursday night vicar gathering they go and they do the vicar and then they read some read Quran to the vicar and then give everyone me some soup. So like a free meal that wasn't a military mess hall foods.
That was the place to be on Thursday night. So we're going all around then they cause mini salamat po TC was a party and they were vying for
leadership in Turkey. So Aruba Khan, I think later even was briefly the prime minister. And so they will go to the villages. They're making Dawa. They're educating the people. So we will go on these excursions with them. And so we didn't know about de facto since we because we've just had converted recently we were Hanafi Noxubee and the Muslims, but we didn't know we just thought we were muslims. Probably like the average Turks. That's Islam. And when so we came back to America. So
and I go to DC DC was the Iranian Revolutionary phase, then 1983 So we go to Jersey, and then the ambushed by the selfies 83. That's very early. Wow. 1983 Okay, which which Sanofi figure was, I don't know if you remember Abdullah McAfee. And they had
the little magazine.
I forget what they call the magazine. He he I don't know. Because then when not when I got back from
Egypt. So So anyway, so we got the Salafi beat down the Hanafis and Abu Hanifa. And his meth lab is not based on Hadith and yada yada yada. And so, so, we started getting into the Salafi part, where we retained the dhikr. So, we were like dickering selfies
on how do you form?
You need some, some escape. Anyway. So
so we got into that, and almost photo studio.
Then what happened with that? was in the fifth class we use in Ficus sunnah, say it's Sabbath, and I fit class. And then so we move into the 80s. And we're doing all this work in New Haven. I mean, we're doing a lot of work. We were very, very actively in the schools and we were doing a lot of work. We had a full program because I was working at that point. So I finished grad school did my year in Egypt, came back, went back home to Connecticut. And we started messaging Alice now, the first thing I did, I don't even want to say what I did because I went to a masjid it was closed and then we started going to West Haven. Because the masjid in New Haven, we went to it, it was closed
on Friday for Juma and what West Haven some people some brothers and sisters who have come out of the west Muhammad movement, they said we need a masjid we didn't make tau when we do and so we started going to their gatherings and brother Rashid's house. I don't remember sister
Jamila Rasheed and brother Rashid, they had a gathering of five or six people who had been worked still affiliated with the Manoir named Mohammed but they wanted to be active in the city. And we started Masjid Al Islam, Imam Suraj was at the grand opening. The grand opening was a storefront about the size of this balcony back here. But Imam Suraj was there we outgrew that moved across the street to how many people first Joomla the first Joomla I forget but the second Joomla I remember the second Joomla was three people, three people because a big snowstorm.
It was a big snowstorm. And myself, my wife and sister Eman. I don't even notice this the man from New Haven and out but then it grew. And we outgrew that space, which was a blessing because it was us. And then the convenience store and then the nightclub. And like the music from the nightclub went over the roof of the convenience, these are connected. And it's like you're the master trying to play in this rock with you. All night you try to pray. And so Hamdulillah that only lasted for a year. Then we moved across the street. To the front of the course is how Islam began in North America, we move
towards a storefront in front of forts sheet metal shop on the backside with a sheet metal shop. The front side was the mascot. Now this this this this story is gonna blow your mind. So on
June 10, I think it was June 10 1989. A tornado came through that area. I was actually at that point I was teaching political science at southern Connecticut State University I was sitting in my office and these huge windows blew off the end of the building and it got green this guy got green and we woke up it was like a mess like this is a wish would have preserved this picture. Like the building to the right of the masjid got totally demolished. The building to the left of the masjid got totally demolished. The sheet metal shot that was connected to the masjid the roof got torn off.
And it actually landed on the masjid roof. And so the only damage that the masjid has no broken windows was a little leak where the roof had punctured the masjid roof. And that was it. It was it was incredible, not not even a broken window.
And so and in any case.
So then we eventually that was rental property. And then we eventually bought the building on George Street. And then by that time I left to go to Syria. So actually Suraj, Mohammed and sayfudine Hudson, those guys kind of brought that to closure. If you're going to Syria, let's get to this stage now. What prompted you to go and why Syria, so I was working this whole time. So we had I was the man with the master because I had gone to Egypt for a year and do a little bit of Arabic and I was hurt err on the side just because it was on my head Institute affiliated with as hot as hell, I'm sorry. And and so when therefore year and came back. So I knew a little bit in the valley of the
blind. The one eyed man is king. But I'm working the whole time. As full time I worked at Yale Medical bookstore. I knew the whole medical library. I could have been a doctor.
No new there netters Grey's Anatomy, the murky manual, the whole gamut. You know everything from A to Z. Allah chose you or something better than being a doctor or a lawyer or the best profession at Hamdulillah. I mean, but so I'm working now. And and but it became apparent that on the weekend, we're going all over the Northeast. These different programs are going to UN protests. We bring busloads of people from Connecticut, we bring more people than New York, the whole city. We were really active. And so at a certain point, it dawned on me and I'm getting to my 30s Now, it's like man, this is probably going to be your life. If that's the case, I need to go and learn more about
the religion. And so I applied to this namak Medina, my Ebal Muslim I took shahada in my house and college Subhan Allah Wow. So I gave him shahada
and my house in
O'Brien he was undergrad, I was in graduate school. And so we had this house we on the second floor, we rent it out to Abu Muslimah this brother from Burma, actually Burmese Muslim brother, and we moved into the attic. Stealth wise we like close the windows so they wouldn't see light at night and rent at the bottom to help pay off augment the expenses of college life. And so myself and Abu Muslim, we apply to Islamic University of Medina.
And as was the want at that point in time, they were slow in responding. So I decided I'll just go to Egypt and study in Egypt. So I went to Egypt and was at this institute where I stay for years and then the SR Institute and he weighed it and then three weeks after I got to Egypt two or three weeks
the acceptance letter came so I actually got accepted to Islamic University of Medina Shala What year is this? This is 19 82/6 Mashallah, I was in grade six at the time, Mashallah. Yeah, it was 90 and Ito Abu Muslim I had waited. So he went and then I had gone to Egypt, you could have been a graduate of Medina. Yeah. Mashallah. But I chose another path for you and Allah chosen another pound. If that letter came three weeks earlier, I would have gone to Medina hamdullah, by the way, for those who don't know, is one of the earliest graduates as well. And he graduated from the College of that always known imam in New Jersey. So you're calling or he accepted Islam in your
house? And then he went to Medina now he's an active DAR. Yeah. So then instead of going to Medina, you chose to go to Egypt, Egypt, okay. And then how did Syria come about? So we stayed there for a year. Then when I came back, I became the Imam. And that's when it came, you know, I gotta really seriously study this religion. And so there was a brother from Syria and my political science classic southern Abdel Fattah almost his complete name. He's in the states now, actually. And so I told him my plan, he was sky, he arranged everything by at the last minute, I lost his phone number. So I just went to Syria, on a wing and prayer and ended up in certain circles and the rest is
history, as they say, but I would have definitely gone to Medina because it was free. like Syria, you had to pay for everything. No, Egypt, we were I actually taught English in exchange for attending the schools to just take care of my family. So you had to work to in order to get some money to take care of your family. How many years were you in Syria? Sure. Oh, I was there from 94 until 2001. Okay, I came back right after 911 It was strange in a world because I did love and happen and you were in Syria. I was in Syria I was locked into messages studying for the exam Subhanallah because a lot of the messages don't they don't leave open between the prayers. So I just
told him just locked me in after fougere saw so you guys have for so then, probably about 10 in the morning, the kids in the neighborhood that banging on the door probably want to shake
that and then I'm Rika Pinto Pentagon robot bar Jane in New York was Sears Tower.
Okay to get the Ma'am, you gotta let me out. And we had this satellite television. And I would never watched it for one minute. And so all this going on. So we got to turn on the TV. Susie had to focus the satellite and get everything and it was CNN and the guys talking about Tom Clancy novel like, is this life imitating art? Because Tom Clancy wrote the novel about the attack on and all this stuff. It was just so weird and the building smoking then the building collapses and
yeah, it was interesting. Subhanallah it actually mirrors my own story. When I was in Medina, we didn't have a TV 911 happened and a neighbor comes running and tells me you better you know, there's been attacks it was happening. My wife and I rushed to a neighbor's house to see what's happening in the exact same story. Subhanallah the time so you studied seven years. I read you are the first American graduate. Oh, no, I was the second the second American who studied all Abdul Moltmann who is the wife of Imam that scene was the first okay so you're the second American Graduate semester one semester so same batch roughly Inshallah, the first or second American graduate from the Syrian
University Abu nor nor Abu nor
And then you came back here and say to listener MIA Yeah, I was actually going to come here to Dallas some people might know that story. I signed the contract actually. Whoa, we got it. We got to talk to some people what's going on here? Why why not? It's not their fault. It's not their fault.
I don't It's my fault. Actually. I don't even know what happened. I don't know how I ended up as a tone. I know I went to this program, Sheikh Hamza was there. It was in the mountains in Alberta, Canada. It was freezing cold until the Chinook came over the mountains and warmed everything. That's the warm wind off the Pacific Ocean. They called this general came the should look. And he didn't make any kind of pitch or anything. The next thing I knew I was in California. Okay.
Dr. Yusuf is going to kill me.
Anyway, so Masha Allah Cadore Hola. Hola, Michelle Phan. So
time is limited. Let me get to some really deep questions and Shortland and open the floor for some of you as well Inshallah, check. One thing that I noticed about your track record, and your lectures and your speeches, and by the way, I met him I was at my first semester at deal in New Haven. It just so happened as soon as he left, I took over my shoe that Islam and good food was there, but he will come visit. So literally, this is I came back he left. When he came back, I came to Memphis but Jeff and I one thing that I've always noticed even in our first meeting in my house in Connecticut in New Haven, I was always cognizant of the fact that unlike many other people, including myself at
the time, you were never sectarian.
And I really
took notice of that most of the drought and I'll be the first to say yes myself as well. Coming from Medina, I had a mindset, those coming from us had a mindset those coming up Syria had a mindset, they had a particular filter, a particular narrow understanding, but I've always seen in you much more openness and broad mindedness which took me myself years of personal Dawa and training but you seem to have had it from before. Why and how do you think this is the case? And can you elaborate on that, that acceptance and an understanding that Islam is beyond just one narrow sliver of interpretation?
is accepted Islam not a piece of it? So, you know, we all are influenced by different things, but you know, manakala La ilaha illa de Hillel Jana redheal, Allah interets paradise. So Yanni
Jana 10 Yanni
was Saturday run amok furia to Morocco agenda 10
Abu hack on the summer where to will so I knew a Jana so Nick Kira to feed a tad dude. So the the indefinite conveys the meaning of of plurality, there's more than one gender, then alone genital genital adding genital name, gender to met were gender to Pharaoh douse. And each one is more expensive than the Spence of heavens and earth. That's a lot of space. Why should we only want five people like me and my, my four students, and everyone else can take a slow boat to the hot place. That's insane. You know, and, and, you know, so the 1400 years the unity that this ummah has despite the various differences, we don't even have what would be properly considered a sect in this in the
Protestant Catholic Catholic sense as Muslims we all pray five prayers, some of the shear and if the and the about Leah they usually join Vorinostat and McGraw Venetia, the end their congregations but everyone recognizes five prayers. We all we fast the same month of Ramadan, all Muslims have a day or difference they start a day a difference you know, you use that you start on Monday, I started on Sunday. You say tomato I say tomorrow, you know, we all go to the same Hodge at the same time. We all read the same Quran. I've been to Iran. There's no Messiah Fatima. The most half is printed in Beirut just like the ones we all read. And so I mean the unity is miraculous, after 1400 years of
Turks and Arabs and West Africans, North Africans, East African Central Asian Southeast Asians, Europe
Ian's and Lucia, the Balkans and all of all of all of that and we still have that degree of unities it's not my place to like kick someone out of Islam because they maintain all that we have in common over some petty minor differences. You know, I never made sense to me mashallah, it absolutely just never made sense. And I couldn't I couldn't do that. And I have to say in front of everybody that it was your presence and interacting with you when I because I had first come from Medina 2005 And I had started yield 2005 And Imam Zaid visited me in my house and we had it was the beginning of my own opening up and rethinking through so your presence and talking to you and, and seeing frankly,
I'm in my shoulder, you're so much senior to me, age wise, wisdom wise, was talking with you and interacting with you was one of the catalyst for me to also start rethinking through an opening up so how many of you have had a very positive impact on my own development? So I was in my shoes, Yassir, because it takes a lot of courage to do what he did. So
colorful
colors Colosse I won't say anymore 100 Zakah fish, so Shekinah another thing. Um, let's get to one of the more interesting questions now. You've been active in America from the 70s Mashallah, you've seen the evolution of Islam, you've seen the growth of Islam? I asked him I said, I just similar question, I'll ask you a similar question as well. What do you see as some of the challenges that we now have that you guys didn't have back in the 70s? Some of the pros and cons some of the positives and negatives that mashallah, you've been a Muslim for 40 plus years, 45 years now, Michelle, you've been active, you've been living in different continents, you've been through multiple phases, as you
said, now that you look back with your wisdom with your experience 2022. Now, what are some of the lessons you can leave for the next generation? Some of the problems that you see that that, you know, we need to nip in the bud as they say, so can you can you help us navigate through the next phase Inshallah, this will monitor him, I think,
to just summarize, Muslims have to totally,
even though some good things have come out of it,
but the danger, and the damage that we're seeing right now, so severe, Muslims have to totally, absolutely reject post modernism, and everything associated with it. Because at the end of the day, the whole postmodern project be that related to feminine studies that come out of it, Queer Studies, critical race theory.
Now, fat studies, all of it. Like I said, there's some good in there, but the project ultimately aims to center the margins. So all of these marginalized groups that claim historical oppression, be that around racial gender,
whatever lines, the whole project is designed to destroy traditional society. And there's probably no society more traditional venison, lamb. And if Muslims do not reject it, it will it will destroy Islam in this country, not in the world.
But in this country. And because a lot of people don't know this, but if you study deeply enough, one of the central figures actually two central figure for Cohen, Deleuze these these people are deeply involved in the occult.
And
the ultimate objective
and traditional, particularly Abrahamic society
who is most marginalized?
I'm asking you guys,
huh?
Who
is a women? Hmm.
Not not in this context. And you said an Abrahamic religions, right? No, but not in this context. Like women that could be a candidate. The LGBTQI plus could be candidates, various racial ethnic groups, Native Americans, African Americans, could be candidates.
are
the most marginalized. In other words, the most
unthinkable
reality to be placed at the center of society having been pushed to the margins is Satan shaped pawn.
And the ultimate end of the project is to center shaytaan.
And what does that mean? Do means to destroy and marginalize Abrahamic religion.
And that's what's happening
through all of these various doors. And so I don't use the language, you know, you don't hear me talking about privilege, and hegemony and intersectionality and Ally ship and all of this stuff. Because language is the gateway to your worldview.
And that's why you see, so many Muslims who are caught up in this worldview, and as a result,
are leaving the religion
either as active participants are all together
through this particular
path. So I will say that's one of the greatest challenges. And the way that we avoid that is we have to hold fast to our language, we have to to our religion, we have to hold fast to the language of Scripture. And you know, when when people talk about the impact, that the whole LGBTQ i plus community has an our politics and society and our culture.
One of the projects was to take over the theology schools, I don't know if you've been recently to American Academy of Religion conference, I went when it was in San Francisco, because I was living out there, let me go see, it was all Foucault. It was all post modernism, there was no biblical language being spoken at all.
There was no biblical language, because the language of Scripture is always going to be problematic for homosexuals.
But the language of Foucault who himself was a homosexual, is going to be empowering.
And if you put that language in the theology schools, and replace the language of Scripture, you're going to have a worldview that is conducive to redefining religion and the role of religion and society. And that's exactly what has happened and is happening. And for Muslims, to avoid it, we have to reject the whole project, we have to reject the language, we have to hold on and affirm our language as it suits is his thesis index of the ethical terms in Quran is that the Quranic language created a unique worldview.
And Rosenthal the same thing and knowledge triumphant Islam is the first knowledge based civilization and at the foundation of that knowledge is, is our is our language.
And if we if we adopt another language, to define the world, and to define how we relate with each other, as human beings, are, we're inevitably going to end up with something that is not going to look
like Islam, as we have historically known it. So that's a controversial statement. But that's how I see it. So chef, this is obviously we all agree on this. But as they say, the devil is in the details. So let this be the final question. I know it's getting sometimes the devil is out in the open. That's true to a very valid point, Chef, we all agree that we're not going to compromise on our theology on our language, we're not going to compromise on our morality, but in the political climate we live in, in order to gain our political freedoms, to be Muslim to fight Islamophobia. Sometimes there are these marginalized groups that are willing to stand with us against the bigger
bully in terms of politics, and they want to be on our platforms, and they're more than happy to support our political freedoms. And there is this perception, therefore, that by allying with them to fight our bigger battles and Islamophobia or maybe even, you know, politics or domestic or foreign policies, that we are compromising on our values, you understand what I'm saying? Obviously, yeah, absolutely. So can you can you elaborate to the level of detail and explicitly you want to leave it to you? You know, this is highly nuanced.
as it will best be dealt with in writing. So it makes it less easier for people to misunderstand what you're saying. But, you know,
we are human beings, we have human relations. So I'm not, we don't as Muslims, we don't encourage bullying. We don't encourage people being bullied abused because of any particular attribute they might possess. So that's one thing a lot of times when you say,
you know, no, if I said, for example, we shouldn't ally with these groups, somebody who okay, then are you saying that we should reject them and abandon them and let them be bullied? No, we don't encourage that at all. But I think we have to step back and look at the context that this question is asked. And so I would, I would say, for example, why are we only asking this question now? And we weren't asking this question to 20 years ago, has society changed so drastically? That the enemies of Islam are so much more vicious are so much more threatening or so much more dangerous today, that we have to discuss allying ourselves with various marginal groups
that, that we didn't have to discuss allying ourselves with 20 years ago, what has happened in society? And so my argument would be exactly what I just said, what has happened has been really, the the fruits of the postmodern revolution, have have ripened and an entire generation of Muslim particular Muslim academics have gone through various levels of schooling and to including graduate school, under the influence of this particular way of looking at the world, who are telling us we have to do this.
And, and so that that's what's changed, the religion didn't change, the enemies of enemies of Islam didn't change. Our political system hasn't changed. But what has changed is how we Muslims, many of us, not all of us, view our situation shooter situation politically, and otherwise. So I'm not saying they are Yay, I'm saying we have to really step back and begin to analyze what's going on in our society before we encourage Muslims to make these various decisions. Now saying that, I will say there are definitely areas where we're going to find common cause with a lot of other people, for example, the preservation of the First Amendment
that allows us freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. And so if I'm advocating for the preservation of First Amendment rights, and some other groups whose ideas might be antithetical to my ideas are advocating for the preservation of their rights, thus their constitutional duties, but I think where we have to be careful is understanding what is our business? And what what are what are our ultimate objectives and what is what is most threatened by these potential alliances. So despite recently, the great Egyptian scholar Sheikh Ali Juma wanted to make the mocassin hefele High yet over hit the dean, but that's, that's not a valid switch. Because
if you don't have Dean, if you don't have a connection to Allah, then life isn't worth living. And so, when we're essentially saying to preserve our lives, politically, and perhaps even physically cut, because people have to, are getting so nasty, this might become very physically threatening. We have to place our religion in danger.
And I think that's the issue. Like, are we legitimizing
things that can end up either eroding or very rapidly undermining
our religion and our attachment to our religion? And how we answer that question, I think determines how we answer the question that you posed.
In terms of aligning with various marginalized groups in society this the last thing I'll say, is, for what I see out there, this is my opinion
that that necessity of alliances isn't based on a deep analysis of the mocassin of the religion. The overarching objectives of the religion is based by so many Muslims adopting the intersectional framework where we are intersectionally connected with other marginalized groups. So you have the Muslims, you have the LGBTQ community, you have women, you have various racial and ethnic minorities, and this intersectionality creates a natural ally ship. But that ally ship is not being defined by Muslims, that ally ships is being defined by others. From my experience, as soon as you
challenge certain aspects of the program of the agenda of others, you're viciously attacked, which indicates there's no true ally ship to begin with. Because the foundations,
the ozone,
are so different. So may Allah give us Tofik? And may Allah bless us to these, these questions, demand answers, but they have to be well considered answers. And so that's my precursor to an answer, not an actual answer. Some people would take it as an answer. But you know, at a certain point, we have to try to articulate the truth as best as we understand it, and just let the let the chips fall where they may. And may Allah protect us and give us autofeed. I mean, that's all of us. And you guys are fortunate and blessed to have shake yes, you're here. Because in his life, he's younger than me. He's gone through a lot of seen a lot of things and done a lot of things and been
exposed to a lot of intellectual religious currents. And so experiences. I would say to a lot of people who might say, oh, used to do this, and that Muhammad Ali said a lot of profound things. And one of the things he said is a person who is the same views the world the same way to paraphrase him
when he's 50, than he that that he did when he was 20, has wasted 30 years of his life. And so we're growing, we're evolving, we're expanding, we're exposed to different things. What I might say on a particular issue, even a controversial one like we just touched on, two years from now could be totally different. And so we just pray that Allah guides us to truth what I think one of the most relevant prayers that are relevant well one of the most relevant prayers that our Prophet taught us, so Allahu alayhi wa sallam Allahumma Edendale haka Hakan or what was what is up native ha are in Aboutaleb I'll tell him was when he was working at NAB, oh Allah show us truth as truth and bless us
to follow it. And this is the beauty of Islam. This is one thing that I got from Islam and focus. Islam isn't just an idea, a pretty idea. It demands an ethical commitment. So not just knowing the truth, but following the truth, and not just recognizing falsehood, but shunning falsehood. And so we pray that Allah gives us all sound knowledge and blesses us with the courage to make ethical commitments and to make stands and to take stands, even when they're unpopular. I mean, I mean, Zack Walla, shared we wanted to talk to you so much more. And he Subhanallah Imams aid was the one who was with Muhammad Ali Rahim Allah to his and he gave him the Kalama at the very end. It was your
mom's aide that was there he gave him the Kadima Imams aid spoke at Muhammad Ali's funeral as the chef and Imam of Muhammad Ali so much more can be said but time is limited. But I need to extract a promise from you that you're going to come back to our community shelf and inshallah my word Insha Allah, Allah fish chef enough we're coming all this way here may Allah subhanho wa Taala give you life in the long life and allow you to be a beacon and a role model for all of us. May Allah azza wa jal community continue to increase your Eman and your taco and your good deeds may Allah subhanho wa Taala make the best of your years the final years may Allah subhana wa Tada cause your ama to be
accepted by your His servants and by ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada May Allah subhanho wa Taala grant you a Kadima to little heat at the end of your life all of us may Allah subhanho wa Taala grant us the Shiva of the prophets of Allah Almighty He was said on the Day of Judgment
Allah azza wa jal resurrect is under his shade when there is no shade other than a shade May Allah azza wa jal causes to pass over the Surat with firmness and strength. May Allah allow us to be amongst the first of the batches to enter agenda with radiant faces. May Allah subhanho wa Taala grant us all the companionship of the prophets of Allah who sent them sin in Jannah to hear those who are Allah which is AKA a local player on
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