Can We Overcome our Differences in Aqidah

Bismillah R Rahman Rahim Al hamdu lillah wa Salatu was Salam ala Rasulillah he will be here woman Hello welcome everybody to a special Safina site and nothing but facts. Live stream which is not live this time it's a it's a recorded stream in which we have two Nobel guests, two big theologians in the western English speaking world within our country to our left, Texas west of us is shift yes of course he of course he needs no introduction. And across the pond as they say is shift. I saw the sheet also no need for introduction. But if you are someone who is an American listener of podcasts and live streaming things, you may not have heard about Shika sama sheet Shiva Suraj studied in

Damascus, Syria. He also studied in Birmingham, Birmingham is a city where you can finish a complete atomia top to bottom. So he now teaches that he studied that in Birmingham then went to Damascus, Syria studied with the automat Hashem also took from some of the family of it either we had medically and so check us out a sheet is is our second panelist or guest today, I should say. So thank you both very much. So yes, it first want to introduce you thank you for for coming on. Zack Hola, Sarawak. misaligns regarding hamdulillah shastra, thank you very much as well, I think at 6pm It's around method of maybe a little bit before method of time. So thank you as well for taking the

time out.

I want to begin with something that will benefit everybody right away.

Apply adopted. The theme for the today's podcast is theta. And theta is something that can really be looked at in two ways. There's really three ways and we're gonna look at all three. There's a way to look at the for everybody. Every Muslim needs to have a modicum of Arpita that's the first one, the second one and the third one we're going to come to that later. So why don't we begin with this and we'll begin with our guests from faraway Shiva, Shiva Surat Why don't we begin with you? What how do you view apply Dr. You know, the day to day things that every Muslim really needs and needs to benefit from.

How I will start is with firstly the application of a Tada Tada. So understanding the attributes of Allah, knowing that loss for HANA will Darla knows with regard to our destiny and what will occur for us, as well as Alexandra the Divine Power of Allah subhana wa ala and observing the fact of the Qudra of ALLAH SubhanA wa running our daily life, this has a major effect in our spirituality. So, this relates to us bubble risk, for instance, the, the causes, Allah subhanaw taala creates of our risk meaning people face up anxiety with the risk, similarly, less than $1, helping us in our daily lives with regard to our other enemies. Similarly, people worrying about the future, knowing that

ALLAH SubhanA will data safeguards. And in this application of a pedo, also folds into observing the effect of the Sefa to align our daily lives, but also observing a smart luck, the names of Allah subhanho wa taala, like it was alimony and Mahi, these types of attributes of Allah subhana wa dalla. So that is an application of Arpita in daily life, just one aspect, but then also, when we look at the hereafter, your multi Earth hero,

knowing that we are not in dunya, forever, this has an effect in how we relate to remember, we live in the largest

capitalist nations in the world, written on the US, how do we apply our Arpita in terms of not being attached to the dunya to materialism, material things, but being prepared for acid on the grave. So that is also the application of Aqeedah. Similarly, angels melodica what when we look at melodica to Russia, the angels of mercy in the house and also the effects of Baraka blessings in the house so like these things that we may take for granted as basic tenets of faith have a major effect in our daily lives. So follow that. That's a great answer. You

because those are things that Muslims regularly every Muslim will deal with in daily life. Well, let's turn it over now to shake hands. What do you think is, you know the things that every Muslim needs to know.

So mashallah there's no disagreement with anything that our Mufti Saab said, obviously, but if you were to have asked me, you know, what I would have responded to, they're all overlapping. I would say, we need to look at the Quranic revelation, what impact did it cause upon the people upon whom he came? What were the main aspects of theology that literally shook their worldview completely, and based upon that we can get to the permanent or the most important issue is the most salient features about theta. So obviously, number one, without a doubt, is the centrality of towhee the monotheism of the notion that law How would what occurred to him that Billa when you remove all false idols,

physical or material when your opponent has dialogue with Allah and only Allah subhanho wa Taala when you don't know but that no one no entity can harm or hurt you other than Allah subhana wa Tada, it changes your entire Slocan worldview gives you a type of courage gives you a type of Tilak could it gives you a type of, of frankly Iman that nothing else can give you So, the perfection of understanding who Allah subhanho wa Taala is and the fact that there is no Shetty no entity that is in any way similar to him. Number two is the Quranic again, look at the Quranic emphasis on our Hara, right? There is no other aspect of theology, you will find it on every single page of the

Quran without exception constantly, especially in the muck and sorrows, I challenge you to read any makansutra Except that every few if there is a direct or indirect reference to the archaea, and again, look at the effect the impact that that belief will have on your Sudak on your Muhammad, on your interaction with other people. When you know there's a sub when you notice gender and now when you know that you're accountable for your actions automatically is going to impact you at every single level and plane of existence. So understanding there's piano and birth and gender and not at sub automatically, that's going to bring about a change in your sudo. And then number three, of

course, is the centrality of the Prophet sallallahu it was sent him and his message and teachings and of course this is needed for us to understand how to live right and so the incentivization will primarily come for most people with the the aspect of Joe Hayden with hisab and then the methodology of how to do that. How exactly do we go about preparing for the ACO? How do we live our lives worshiping ALLAH SubhanA data for that we have to have that central notion of the prophecies and being that but it kinda confused Rasulillah who's worked on Heceta June Lehman Cana yellow joola How will human asset again what I talked about, right, the two points here Yoda joola, human asked him

to sweat on Hustler, right? So we have the swap in the methodology in the car. And then we have the reality of why we need that. So which is belief and Ulundi Africa. So this is what I would answer. And again, this is complimentary to all the remove this upset, Michelle, it's complimentary. And the focus on the ACA is so important. And oftentimes when people talk about this Eman, Elijah is dispraise. That is the man of the old lady. What they really are the elder elders, they mean the common Muslim. But these things they have a down pat, they may not be able to tell you anything in the textbooks of al Qaeda, but these things through their daily life through attending Jomar through

actually having problems with risk or temptations for five, six decades. There Eman becomes rasa. And I think sometimes to love Edelman intellectuals sometimes actually dismiss a lot of these things as merely just, you know, soft things that aren't really that critical. Yeah, they may not be critical in the realm of debates. But in daily life, you never end needing reminders on these basic things. This is what in our world today, YouTube playlists, right provide this for people. It's just practically speaking in most people's homes, the Smart TV is on write these things come on regularly different, you know, organizations that splice up speakers talking about Metallica talking about

Africa, talking about being judged. It's all about meeting ALLAH SubhanA wits either and presenting our deeds or having our DS presented to us. Things like this are extremely critical. And I as we move into

more Khademi or debatable or back and forth issues. I want to put the backdrop that this apply doc data is probably the most important thing for 99% of Muslims 99% of the time. Right and with that backdrop, and with that context, we move in now to another content

Next, and that is the issue of

intellectual non scholars. What do we mean by that? It used to be there's there was a world where words and books were not spread far and wide. Either you studied or you just heard jamaa. That was it. Right? You either enter jamea, or you attended Joomla. That was like the only exposure you had. There weren't a lot of books. Today, there are so much exposure to knowledge and to issues, that there is something we can call a highly educated lady, highly educated, except he just doesn't attend gurus.

He doesn't study formally in any way, shape and form. He may be in it, he may be in medicine, he may be in something else. This highly educated lady is exposed to atheism and needs a rebuttal is exposed to evolution and needs to know the answer is exposed to so many things and needs an answer. So that brings us up to the subject matter of Kedem 3.0 with Sheikh Hamza Kamali coined, which is the Kedem, or theological responses

to these common issues that every intelligent Muslim will be exposed to. So why don't we reverse it? Now? We'll go to shaky acid first on that subject, then we'll go to check us out on that.

Jade. So there's no question that

we need to reevaluate our

religious discourse when it comes to theology, in my humble opinion. And that is that the classical textbooks that all of us who went to addresses were taught, you know, I went through a particular system of the SR, one to another tradition. These classical textbooks were written for critical times in places by people who were dealing with the problems of their era.

Many of us when we study these textbooks, we come out of these Madras says, and we simply feel we need to do the exact same thing to our faith based communities. I used to be like that 1520 years ago, but it dawned upon me, this is not my perspective that actually no, this is not our priorities, the priorities are not to regurgitate the past controversies of NESHAP would have the fifth century, but rather, the current priorities are of a totally different nature. And the books that we need to teach and the concepts we need to ingratiate in our people might not necessarily be found in the wording in the format, obviously, the disorder and all the classical books, but we need to redo and

obviously, you can even go back to, I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I know that if BOD and even others, like talking about a new animal kingdom, like we need to now redo and defend the religion. So I am totally you know, for this notion, now, what do you call it a new arrangement, where you just call it, you know, rethinking through the Messiah that needs to be taught, one of the most important issues that is of relevance to our modern Muslim community is actually the relevancy of God and religion in the modern tradition. You know, what we see now is that, unfortunately, the default in western secular society is to either make religion a private and you know,

a very personal matter or even to actively oppose religion. And people are taught this notion that you can be an ethical and moral person without a belief in a higher entity without hisab without belief in the prophets. And that's why a lot of these new messiah are and what's going to happen to a person who rejects Allah and His Messenger or they're a good person, but you know, what's going to be their fate in the era. So I am a firm believer that we do need to redo these types of notions and prioritize them because perhaps we're jumping the gun but it is relevant here. I don't see a person who follows any of the mainstream strands of Islam, any of the mainstream add a sunnah in the

generic sense stren praying, fasting, believing in Allah and His Messenger wanting to follow the city. I don't see them as an enemy I don't see them as a lost cause. Inshallah they haven't enough salvation or Iman, even if I don't agree with a particular issue, but in their personal lives and their does Kia and their dialogue with Allah and their mahabhava the Quran and Sunnah. Inshallah they have passed, they have surpassed the salvation a level, the same cannot be said, of somebody who's saying we don't need Shetty on our types. The same cannot be said of somebody who genuinely is struggling to understand the wisdom of why they need to be a good Muslim in our timeframe, these

people actually deserve far more of our attention. And we need to change the discourse for them. So I personally because of just because of my own bias where I came from, I probably wouldn't call it during the collaboration two or three as you understand why but I don't have any issue with the concept or the idea that we do need a new discourse and that needs to be our priority will lower them. Okay. The follow up to that, so

If you want to get that ready is going to be, what would be the methodology, the parameters or the method and the code of such a

refutation. You can call it Harris theology or refutation of COVID. But first let's go to shaker Strauss opinion on this need for a new column a column 3.0 Or

a refutation for these issues?

Well, I wouldn't agree with Hamza tamale because many years ago, there was a debate actually with Hamza Karmali and some application of a full column between one of our Birmingham based or Lemma and this occurred actually in Damascus, the application of Gundam is an issue, but not so much for the Ashanti tradition. Why? Because when we start from the works of Imam Mohammed bin use of a Solusi Rakim Allah for instance, the AQa

a given the judgments of the mind, which are important Tamasha are given and the various judgments are discussed, the application of that can vary from time and place. So, like in chakra I have the design for instance, he has a discussion and how particular Shia if abita tune, and then he also discusses the Greek philosophers and how they dealt with reality but then you fast forward to David Hume, the Scottish philosopher, and Immanuel Kant. do assume that is found in tough designing, although that is found in even more dense that I'm worth the application of that soil can easily

dismember and totally destroy the arguments I've even recent philosophers and modern philosophy. The application was demonstrated by shakily Stan was to her salary so when you go back to his book mock up a tome other work, huge book, a person can patiently read throughout the through the work and you will find that 90% of the work

applies easily to modern atheists. So new Atheism and the modern arguments presented by atheists. Similarly, you have updates by the likes of a Sheikh Mohammed Syed Ramadan and booty in Cobra, late European Yetter konia. Similarly, you have the same being done by Abdul Rahman hasn't happened or the haben at a school in general, they had a you just look at the words of Abdurahman person for Vendetta, he applied Kalaam old al Qaeda in short in the kalam of Ghazali Dharma browsI. The kalam of Zanussi, the classical Tera, they apply that to all modern philosophies or political sciences, and they totally dismantle

those arguments to the point that any graduate from

from the Masters they will they are exposed to those books so you could go into data Alameen hell, Boney in the Masters, you're exposed to all of that Lixia similarly in Egypt, in Al Azhar also fishery they are exposed to to all of these philosophies, but counters are given by the other Ulema. Recently, the other on the release

20 volumes against modern atheism and objections on the Quran, objections and the Sunnah, objections, responding to the objections on the Sunnah, objections to the Quran, and objections to the the personality of the Messenger of Allah, Allah Allah.

So, with all due respect to Hamza cromoly, he may have been produced and the likes of him have some maturity and tertiary modalities, some of them that just teach the books in a dogmatic style, just translate the book, but they do not give the students application. So that leads to graduates who are unable to apply the classical books. So you may have classical Columbus is being taught, but the application is missing. And that leads to some people facing a crisis in faith. They have a crisis in faith when they go into any academic university and they're exposed to various arguments they are unable to answer and they do not even know what is the relevance of codon today? Yep. Okay. So I

think that both all three of us agree that there has to be a refutation and that the realm of refutation is really right under the importance of this applied update of the first segment I talked about the applied it to every Muslim household Muslim kids, Sunday schools, Islamic schools, regular Muslims who are not necessarily intellectuals who read, they benefit so much from applied

Update, once you start, your mind starts to churn a little bit and start asking questions. The next strand of Islamic literature, or knowledge that becomes truly an obligation for you, is to remove doubts that are presented to you by atheism cetera. So I think we all agree on the need for these reputations, but we're differing on what we're going to call it. And its route. Now here's the thing, a lot of people, they all they knew about Islam is the applied of theta. Okay, there's heaven and hell, and there's all these things. They don't realize that for centuries, Muslims have been debating things, because they've been kofod. And atheists for centuries that have been thrown doubts

at Muslims, and they have a response. So this response has a history has a tradition, and has a methodology. This is the next question that I want to broach. If we're going to respond. We need railways, we need a methodology. The first group to respond with Mr. Tesla, they had no methodology, they went off the rails or they had a methodology wasn't right, they went off the rails. So there's my questions to shake acid. When we're going to have a western tradition of refutation of all the things that we're dealing with, we will naturally respond by reason and debate. So what is the methodology by which a student of can learn the methodology and then apply it to the various

questions rather than handling? question by question? Is my question clear? So I think the issue of food or methodology, when it comes to responding to these modern issues, is one that might vary slightly between the established you know, pre modern schools, but I think the net result that is going to come is not going to be tangibly, you know, different. So for example, that admirer of him admitted his idea and admire vivan tambien. His shots would be if they were to try to refute secularism, I honestly don't think that the final product that either of these mother dresses is going to produce is going to be that different from one another. Because the issues that and this is

again, a deeper topic. I know we're jumping the gun here. But it might appear to the insider that our differences between these schools are somewhat large. But my analysis is that when it comes to modernity, no, they're not. When it comes to dealing with the issues of our timeframe. Frankly, we're on a very, very similar wavelength, you're if we were to be I personally don't subscribe to any one school anymore. But if we were to be of any particular school of the classical tradition, there is Tallinn oneness, there is a respect of the sacred texts that is universal amongst all of these trends of of, you know, mainstream Islam, you know, there is a prioritization of auto level

auto rasuluh, there is an understanding that after is used to defend the Scripture, all of this is standard sort amongst

all mainstream read them up. So I don't feel personally, that there's going to be a tangible difference in the methodology when it comes to refuting these issues, perhaps in the choice of examples, perhaps in you know, the finer aspects, and even that you'll probably find an overlap, but we'll know who I really think that you will sort of have been laid out by our predecessors. And I don't find there to be. And again, the easiest reality of this is to see, right, yeah, I mean, how odema have different strands are actually refuting these modern movements. And you find that they are, overall, they're overlapping, right? They're saying the similar things, and they're defending

the Shediac. I have a number of PhDs from Edina about the need of religion and our times and I've read with these as well, Justin yet to recover, for example. I mean, the the philosophy, I would say is very similar in this regard, you know, why do we need to decide? Or why do we need ye? What is the need of having a message in our times? So Allah, I think there's no need to overcomplicate the simple, we do have an agreed upon methodology, which is to understand that Allah subhana wa data sent us a prophet because our own intellects are not capable of attaining ultimate truth without him. And because of this, the same philosophy we understood to refute these modern trends whose

basic premise is we don't need God and we don't need a higher power and we can arrive at the hack without a hack. And that's the basic you know, fundamental difference between all of us as Muslims and doing them so I find that when it comes to contemporary issues,

it's a very they're they're a uniting force. Contemporary Issues are a uniting force, because everyone is fighting the same enemy and coming up with whatever tool that we can come up with, within the circle of Islamic scholars. But the question now, the follow up question is, so the result may be the same. They are for sure unified forces, but

for

The for the educated lady as I'm calling them, what would be in let's say a minute or two minutes the soul of this. So they say listen, I'm not gonna go point by point give me the methodology give me if I was to go on Fit For example we would say in medically fit right it's going to be the Quran is going to want to watch it Hadith it's going to be Ahmed Medina, then it'll be 100 Hadith, the chef is will say no, no, no Ahmed, so give me the azul of how to refute how to respond. So if I want to ask both sides in two minutes, what would be the sole the fundamental principles by which I would handle attacks on theology or ideas that contradict our theology? Jay, so you want to go first with

this?

After yourself? Okay, so your I haven't really thought about formula to do so. So this is off the cuff. But I would say off the cuff literally, I would say, first and foremost, but what I would do, I would look at the underlying presumptions the paradigm of where these movements are coming from, right, and compare and contrast them to our underlying paradigms. We begin with the foundational premises. So so whatever issue you're refuting, let's give you an example of secularism, for example, right? What are the will soon where is secularism coming from? And how does that differ from our fundamental paradigm? So for example, when it comes to secularism, secularism is the

product of a particular Zeitgeist a particular time and frame a particular set of issues and problems, and they had to solve that we cannot refute secularism without going to the sort of secularism Why was secularism needed? Another sort of secularism, by the way is that secularism is coming out of Christianity, it's not coming out of Judaism, right. You could never have a Jewish

culture produce secularism because Christianity has no law because there is no detail Shetty out, they can have this type of understanding of Okay, let's keep ethical things aside here. So you look at the OSU contrasted with ours, you will begin with that point, a second I think methodology methodological premise, which of course, all of our scholars lasagna and entertainment, others are well versed in this and that is, you look at internal internal confrontation between various strands of any movement, and you see, where are they refuting other strands and you take the best of those arguments and utilize them. So secularism, as we are aware, has a variety a wide array of Muda. His

best example is American secularism versus lacets and France right. And you can compare and contrast their critiques and use them to critique the entire infrastructure. A third is to look at the third model or to look at the results of any strength added for MVC mountain. So what happens when you go down this route? What is going to happen? We see the life sensuousness, the hedonism, the sheer lack of you know, the depravity, the lack of compassion, and whatever you want to say about the Muslim world and culture in terms of GDP, you cannot equate with the Koran and with the compassion and with the treatment of elders right. So there are tangible realities that come the summer that comes so

these are some of the ways I would you know, bring about Sue, but again, this is off the cuff and if I were to think about it, I have a more detailed list. Now that we can pass it over to him with the southern shoulder, okay. Sure.

Yes, how I would say is firstly, we start with ACTA Mala judgments of the mind, which have been designated as worship essential to start healing possible and Moonkin. Every individual must be trained with regard to them. This is important, so they do not mix up, come up with AQa Moula harder, because if they mix up akhom Will harder which is the habitual judgment, they will conflict with pre modern science, and they will end up rejecting miracles. Harpal either for instance, carpooled other is not Mr. Hill, Auckland, it's Mr. Hill outdated, but when someone makes it and conflate the two, they fall into a basic mistake, which happened with Mohamed Abdul Rashid Rida,

another Fulani, when they come when they were unable to distinguish between camel and camel ad. Similarly, we go to a bar meaning Travato the concept of Dueto. So our public firstly, must be informed with regard to athermal, Atlin, accom and other Secondly, with regard to the lotto, and the concept of tomato, and thirdly, the role of Harvest, harvest we Hamsa avoya their role in application of in our histology how we attain knowledge These are three things which everyone from the the learned public meaning the laity that is educated can be trained with regard to and this is why the Solusi is still very relevant today even though the Cobra Valley Momsen

Lucia Rahim Allah fourthly, I would say an emphasis on Maratha ALLAH SubhanA wa Tirana meaning Madiba is a form of knowledge also, and this is what a demon will handle the zali. He moved towards to in the end of his life when he said he had a crisis. The crisis was not with regard to the man the crisis was with regard to the epistemology. And this was then developed by the likes of Marathi Rahimullah, a shack Mohiuddin. So these are full methods of ascertaining knowledge. Many years ago, I picked up a book by Antony Flew, he wrote a book in the 1960s on the existence of God. When I read the book, I read the entire book, I placed the red lines on all the places where he was actually

refuting arguments against the existence of God against the existence of God, things which were had already been debated

by the Usher era, and the Morteza. So all these arguments with the more sad arguments, so this is someone writing in the 1960s, bringing up martyrs silly arguments that were debated well over 1000 years ago. So in terms of development arguments, if you go back to some of the classical words, you will find that many of the modern arguments have actually been debunked

centuries ago, and if we do not train our roadmap our students with regard to the correct application of Kalam, you will have the likes of Muhammad Abdul, who made the total mess when it comes to Le Mukalla, which was demonstrated by Mustafa Sabri and use of a BJP and other schewe analyzer.

Okay, that's a very good quick response from both sides. And I do want to ask about one I'm going to ask about Madiba in a second. But I want to also translate for everybody who do who may not know some of the Arabic terms the summary of what Shiva Suraj said is that the also the the tracks the methodologies that you would give that you would teach any Muslim today in order for them to be protected from these ideas. Number one, really the the main thing you said is to understand that all knowledge comes from one of three sources, observable knowledge, transmitted knowledge, and then rational knowledge. And to know that all three are valid forms of knowledge. And this is sort of a

refutation of scientism, which is that truth really only comes through observation, or philosophy, where truth only comes through rationalization. And so and it gives victory to deen and religion by emphasizing the truthfulness and the factuality of transmitted knowledge, right, Hadith and Quran. These are facts because they are transmitted by Toto. So that's the first thing that the summary of Sheikh once said. The second thing is that is not to confuse the rational judgments with observable judgments not to confuse the two. Because there could be a rational judgment is something that is not internally contradictory.

And if it comes through transmitted knowledge, we can accept it as a fact, as opposed to academica observed things that we never observe. So there are things we never observe, such as miracles, right, but they could possibly exist, there's nothing irrational about miracles. So that's a summary of, of what you said, what Sheikh Hassan said is, well, Sulochana are also the also the foundational pieces of knowledge that if they are embedded in the DNA of a Muslim minds in the gene, whatever it of a Muslims thinking, a lot of these things can be pushed away quickly, right, or put in their spot quickly, a lot of ideas could be swatted away quickly. So but now I want to ask you about this

fourth one, Matt, if what do you mean by that, that it's a protection for a Muslim? In other words, to have a lot of light in his art and to have a spiritual experience

in a bad in Eman, is that what you mean by America as a form of knowledge? So America would include horrible light? Well, fully. So a chef, you didn't even know Adobe? He states that the definition of evil is increase of love. So whenever your love of Allah and Rasool increases, your Eman increases. So love is also a form of marriage. So if we emphasize love in the hearts of the public, in terms of love for Allah and Isa rasool Allah or you set it up, this is also an increase of the Eman I remember once I say dabbas Maliki here this young Saudi who arrived from America he went to America to study and he came in con

tact with devil worshippers when he came in contact with devil worshippers he had, he was, he was extremely disturbed, distraught, and he came to a Seder a bus and say the bus was shocked to even hear about devil worshipers, that they even exist. But what safeguarded this young Saudi man's Iman, was the fact that he was raised in the presence of the lights of the Seder bus who inculcated in in him the love of Allah and his aura Fujisan Allah why do you say that he never went through a crisis of faith? He was just disturbed by the devil worshippers. Yeah, so the sage ambas Allah we he mentioned and emphasize that we must inculcate love in the heart so the young people love him love

of Allah and His Messenger SallAllahu I think

there was a case of a an American martyr, Sheikh Sheikh who became a more than an homosexual. Now, when that was mentioned to me, I said, the only reason why that would have happened is because he had no love for Allah and he's Rasulullah sallallahu because if he loved Allah and he saw the food more, he would prefer that to the love of his shower of his desire. So that is one definition of Maratha. Then of course, there's there is Halawa to ima having the Halawa to Eman Munna jab with Allah

of the Corolla, all of these things, this then goes into the the aspects of solo can amo kuzhambu, which is beyond our conversation today. But yeah, it's, it's not the subject, but I do understand what you mean by that actual spiritual experience. And that's the function in traditional of traditional vicar, gatherings, and any acts of any group worship and massage. That's the whole function of that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be done in a group, but it just makes matters easier. So let's now turn back to check it out. So let's prioritize the number one issue that the educated lady that you would wish. The number one is the educated lady that you would want to

address for them? Would it be atheism? Would it be the need for religion secularism? So I believe there's multiple number ones, depending on the audience discussing, I can't I just there is depends on say, if you're speaking to a very practicing conservative or liberal, Mitch type, right, like you said, the academic what was the educated laity? The educated laity is not the same as the alamin muslimin. Right. So you really can't have the same number one in both of these discourses. Of course, when you talk about the absolute alamin was to be there is no question that the number one issue is to increase their mahabhava Allah and His Messenger, there's just no question because they

are struggling to maintain the basic facade, they're struggling to be a good Muslim. And the default that they have is they believe in Islam. That's the default Alhamdulillah we thank Allah that the light of Islam is so strong and the fitrah is so pure, that when the to intermix at birth and an upbringing that default to the Muslim throughout his or her life, there is going to be a flicker of Eman Al Hamdulillah we thank Allah because this is a sign of our, the validity of our faith to be honest, unlike in Christianity and Judaism, that's not the default anymore. So because this is the case, our job is do it and preachers is therefore to encourage to nourish our job is to increase

their time look with ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada and their desire to want to learn about the Sierra and the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu. How to use them. That's the number one priority amongst those I want. Now, what if another group comes that is like, like, you know, perhaps I would say, amongst that category are, let's say in America and hunting lid, college youth, amongst college youth, I do believe there are intellectuals who will have that need to be addressed, right, which are different than the absolute our and amongst them would be important to bring up you know, certain aspects depending on the the youth that are front of you, but to explain, for example, Yanni, by the way,

just today, somebody forwarded to me a whole survey done about ex Muslims of America, I can send you the PDF as well analysis that they have done about this thing. These are troubling statistics that we need to talk about. So one of the issues that troubles our youth is to try to rationalize what they view as some of the aspects of Islam that they cannot understand at all right. And that's not the time to get into right now. But that's an issue to be addressed with amongst college youth. How do we understand these things? Amongst the,

the intellectual, you know, I want to call them right the, the ones that are not full tempo level, but still they are interested in Parliament. They're very intelligent people, generally speaking, so again, I have my views and I know there might be other views no problem. In my humble opinion, one of the biggest issues

To raise amongst such people is how to strive for practical unity in spite of our differences. To me, that is one of the biggest priorities amongst those who are activists, even if they're not full time. And to understand that, and this is, again, my philosophy and manager, I know we're gonna come to the next question. But my view is that the differences of the past the classical, Madonna, head of Athena, even and whatnot, we need to somehow for the greater good come together, even if we maintain our differences, and keep them as they are. But what are some of the practical ways to do that? I think this is for me, number one. And also as a corollary to this the dangers because in

this group, the number one danger amongst those that are intellectual, our if you want to call them the number one danger, in my humble opinion, is the ease of taking other intellectual out one as the other and the enemy, right and to create division from within our own. And to go back to a simplistic or a fundamentalist or a

madhhab based or a Philippi based any type of Jonnie sectarianism that is not healthy for the Ummah, we need to get to a level of practicality where nobody needs to compromise on one's own understanding of their theology. But we need to be wise enough to understand the new other is no longer what it used to be 300 500 1000 years ago. And amongst all of us, we do need to work together in order to protect all of our interests. Because here's the irony of ironies. We might disagree amongst ourselves, but an outsider or he to visit any of our houses, we need to see how we treat in our families, our children, we need to see our lifestyles, right, that outsider could not tell any

difference really, by and large, about our views of the world, you know, the issue of our children and dating the issue of living in America, England, that he or she would find us to be exactly on the same wavelength. Right. So I think because of this, one of the biggest problems we have amongst that category of people, is the danger of reverting to a simplistic one dimensional sectarianism, because it's so comfortable dialoguing with somebody who understands your language, and you find, you know, some benefit in that. But then the two of you are locked in a room and the rest of the world is moving on, you know, you and others can debate the SIFAT can debate other can debate

emoted, and this is our forte, this is our expertise. But as we do this, and there's five of us in this room, there's 95 people outside who couldn't care less about what we're doing, and who have a totally different wavelength. So I find this is a problem for those five, because it's so comfortable to go back to what they deemed to be familiar. So anyway, I hope that answers a question that couldn't be more common on depending on which group I'm addressing, there's different number one, two, and three. So I would do Okay, good. So Chickasaw, do you agree with this? So what are the the perception of this of the issue being that classical issues have very little relevance to the

common Muslim and the intellectual

laity? The educated, common Muslim, and hence, as a result, should really only be studied almost as history? And it can be debated on the side. But the bulk of the matter has to be focused on the contemporary Miss Ed.

What's your comment on that?

Oh, well, I would frame this issue is that we continue with the classical debate. That's no issue, as long as you do not allow it to affect the issues that affect everyone, every Muslim. So we we continue, but it's not so much debating the classical issues. It's more to do with how you debate those issues. So for instance, if me and Dr. Yasser, we disagree on an issue of Quran, he writes a academic work refuting me i an academic work

in intelligent work, and I respond with an intelligent work that is not unhealthy. Similarly, if he meets up with me, and we discuss an issue of Kalam, even though that issue of Kalam may have been debated for hundreds of yours, we sit down we debate the issue, we discuss the issue. The main thing is that the civil behavior, how do we go about doing that? How does it affect the public? If it causes toxicity?

discord in the sense that it needs to fighting needs to violence, then that is unhealthy. But if it's a scholarly debate, and this happens in many, you would know there are many publishing houses today that publish healthy reputations. Also, in there are many books written which I would refer to as healthy reputation. It's more to do with how we approach reputations and not attempting to silence reputations totally because that may never happen. I'll give you an example a Sheikh Abdul Fatah

Have a good data. No, I'm not

a man that everyone is familiar with a person who was reasonable. He lived in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh, he attempted many times to unite with the oil mob nature in the sense that he praised the role of Mabinogi depraved Mohammed bin Abdullah.

But yet he was never accepted by Sheikh Nasser have been a lead ban should not have been a little burning refuted harshly, and then a Sheikh Abdul Fatah that responded and refuted him and it was so halal, shall we, but it should have done Fatah Buddha was accommodating and very, his manners were impeccable, that demonstrates to us and if you remember, there was also a meeting between a chef use of Al Qaradawi a chef, not sort of being a little Bernie and shake up the Fatah Buddha in Lebanon in the 1970s. They disagreed on something and it led to written reputation. The point being that reputations will never stop. But how do we go about refuting had? What I would suggest is that we

present our reputations in an academic manner. We have added a double nifty laugh in the sense of US law, mannerisms,

and also presenting the enough and the dispute in a way that it does not affect major issues. Like for instance, in America, you have the biggest and most powerful Zionist lobby,

the pro Israel lobby.

In America, the Muslims must unite against the pro Israel lobby. That is a great

goal for all the Muslims within the United States. That is a common goal. The disputes cannot affect the political goal of the Muslims when they counter the Zionist lobby. Similarly, we have LGBT lobbies, when we can tell them, we cannot allow our internal refutations affect our unity in canceling LGBT or countering Zionists or countering anything that is antithetical to Islam.

Although will the detractors of Islam so that is my opinion in terms of reputations. There are many Salafi you to come and visit me in Birmingham, we sit down regularly we discuss our issues. We debate our issues, some of them do not pray behind me. When the salah time comes, they do not pray behind our email, but they still the fact that they are arriving at the masjid and discussing. I look at the positive in the sense that at least you arrived at the masjid and you are giving conveying salaam some of them by the way, decades ago would never give me center. Now they give Sudan they give salah they pray behind me personally, but they won't pray beyond the Imam of the

Masjid. Even though I've demonstrated to them that the Imam diversity doesn't have Shere Khan his belief. He doesn't have began his belief, but

they have moved more towards a healthy trend of what dialoguing which dialoguing. Hiva is the first way of moving forward, you will never finish the sectarian dispute. But as long as we are dialoguing as long as there is who you are, as long as there is a slob as long as there is a who enough. And as long as we do not allow it to affect great two goals, then Alhamdulillah. Okay, I just want to add one thing, though, this is all great. And with the sub, everything you said 100% agreement. I just have one other issue that me personally again, I'm not you You are your own person me personally, I would also add these issues should never form the topic of such buzz or a wham lectures that we

should not bring up a topic that is intended to cause division was within the umbrella Colima common market. And I gave a football, for example, last year, this time about the motive. If you listen to that, you know, I was very clear in this regard that those who celebrate those who don't celebrate, you know, you keep your positions, but learned that both of you are coming from a paradigm and on a soul that what unites us is more than what differentiates us. This is the type of rhetoric that needs to be at the basic level. The type that is defending one view against the other, in my humble opinion should not be done on the members that should be that amongst the ship. And I want as you

said amongst the academics or amongst those that are interested, come to my head thoughts and gurus and now we go over and even then amongst the ship that I want again, in my humble opinion, the adjectives and the methodology and the rhetoric needs to be toned down from some of what we find even amongst our own teachers, because even the ship had even these pseudo academics

If you and I speak from experience, how I was, and even how I learned my own strength, if you are constantly full of hatred, your student is gonna, you know, compress and exacerbate that hatred, right? If you're constantly for the genuine anger against a Muslim who's lowering his head more than 30 times a day, even if they have a different understanding of the fact to, then your student is going to take your anger and concentrate it even more so and spread it in a much more divisive manner, even you doing it in your private hands are not doing what your student will do in his private class. So I would simply add the caveat in public, as low as possible, lower the bar to be

as United and even in private when you're teaching. There's got to be a language and an audience at a time at a place. There's got to be a methodology even in reputations that hey, look at the broader picture in the end of the day, what we agree about is far, far more than what we disagree about, well, Oh, these are just my my own personal caveats. I would want to add a tally to that there needs to be a distinction made between issues, which are not actually met along with global learning that is, like for instance, refer your day this became a big issue in the Indian subcontinent. But the rough reading is an issue even amongst the selfies they have the roughly a day in issue after you do

pm you to refer your day in and up and some of the shoe of the selfies they don't do up some of them set up these bids or whatever that may be molded in itself. Al Faqih he, for instance, refuted moldy, but he was a nursery and then aluminum Gela Dino so up he gave the flatware permitting moly, moly again, would not fall under those issues of a double grinder is sooner so a distinction needs to be made of those issues as well as those issues which are evil those are in that is not but cannot be grasped by the public. Like if we start discussing, I'll just lay your pages in the door and footwork. So the Juma football must should generally be something that is more a sly of the

people for a month. So they need to get distinction between what is Baroda and what is not. Okay, it's very good that you bring up this distinction because as we talk about unity, we also need to talk about the the levels and the degrees of unity. So is our unity based upon identitarian Islam, meaning that just by merely identifying as a Muslim, that we you, we should unify with the nutcase we're completely melting down.

Any and all parameters or bears or lines, even if those lines were made in the past, just because a line or a difference of opinion, or a sectarian or a Sunni versus Bidda line was drawn in the past, doesn't mean it doesn't trickle down till today. All right. So the the Shia being a great example they have a whole community, there are theater was forged in the past, and yet,

in a community sense, it still has relevance today. So that leads us to the next question, the importance. Do we believe in an importance of defining an Edison and what is the Code of Conduct of this unity between groups that we hold to be within Addison and outside so I asked like three questions there. So let's start with the first one is that if we speak about unity, are we holding that unity limiting that to at Asana or to identitarian Muslims?

Wealth is available go first?

Well, I would say that we stick to the identity of ALLAH SubhanA wa Jamara. As was formulated from the time of our beloved Allah de la anima, when he was informed of someone who became a mother, and he refused to convey salam to that person because of his rejection of other as it mentioned in the city of Lima Muslim. So from that time when you had the schismatics in the early times, from the time of the karate, all the way up to the formulation of the creed of Imam Abu Jaffa to Javi who wrote by unfortunate evil Gemma, this demonstrates to us that Debian also naughty will Jamar what is known as an appy.ca here was to unite the body of the Muslims which became known as Alison naughty

will DEVAR that the Sunnah will Gemma today. You could say that the self is claimed that they are Alison noble Jana, and then you have the the larger body of Muslims which is the shadows and the majorities the follows of the four schools the athletes also the Hannah villa, how do we reconcile between the seller fees today and when I say seller fees I meet at the bar Mohamed

Salah Hello thing is later figures like Saudi Arabia

Jamie Dimon bars Pasadena labelling, how do we reconcile them with the traditional eyeshadows and the follows of the four schools? Well, the only way of reconciling them is coming to a common ground in terms of what that if we say to them, when it comes to tafsir, we we go to the tafsir abou feeder is my Winterfield for instance, who they accept, we look at the Philadelphia from his tafsir, you will find that they will be many kala issues if we always refer back to the Tafseer of indica here. Or if when it comes to the Sahana Bukhari and Muslim we look at the commentaries are hedger and le Mama No, we are classical commentaries as a reference point, rather than looking at Mohammed bin

Abdullah and the post Mohammed bin Abdullah movement. Go back to the classical commentaries, you will find that there is no common ground, bring them back to the MME in the sense that they must come back to the mothership if they do if they have a dislike for the Hanafi school. Then come back to the chef at school come back to the the humbly school and the traditional positions of those schools you check the positions of ignore Kodama democracy, Rahim Allah, in his ad money, they go in line with the main party of Muslims. So that is the only way and I believe we can reconcile with the selfies is that if they come back to the traditional mainstream Hanabi that as well as the chef is

and the other fellows of the four schools with regard to the Shia,

they we can never unite in terms of creamy the Shia because they they very assassinate foundation is totally different to us. It starts from believing the obligation of Allah to send down our ima it starts from believing the companions were deviated from not selecting Satan our idea of the Allah or and, and believing that the Companions rejected imam of Satan, Ali Abdullah one from the very inception, meaning these Inception points are not common grams for us to share with the sheer. But with the selfies there is we can go back to Beyonce tonight, you will generically remember to Harvey, we have the classical broad tradition of 1200 years of commentary upon the words of Hadith,

that we can all refer back to those types of Salafi who abandon the modern interpretation of the Salafi movement and go back to that traditional understanding we can unite with in terms of creed. I'm mentioning this in terms of creed, as with regard to CSR, then that is a different issue altogether.

Okay, so the way I had looked at it is and you answered a number of these unity, is it between anyone who identifies as Muslim or Arizona who answered this, then? If that's the case, then we need to know what is the very simple definition of Edison in the sense of what do I do? What do I have to avoid?

To be outside of Edison, because the default of a Muslim is what I told him. He's innocent of all things. But there are only certain things to do that we'll put you outside of Arizona. And that's a question we'll take to shake acid and then we'll then go to the interaction between the two because the reason I say this identitarian is that

the progressives and liberals

do they identify as Muslims with some of their beliefs are so out. So out there, we need to know how far out there makes me now alter my behavior towards you even know if you call yourself a Muslim.

Jay. So again, this has a lot to unpack here. The way that I view this is that this is not a binary, it's not a black and white situation, either unify or not. On the contrary, what I say is that there's what I have called the circles of cooperation, circles of cooperation, depending on which circle you're interested in your your actual diameters are going to be your circumference is going to be different, who says five is going to be different, different and the narrowest circle? The most, you know, obviously, the most conservative or the smallest circle is going to be who do I invite to my Mr. To give you the hotbar? Who is going to be my stomach studies teacher, that is the

most narrow for that definition. I would want somebody who has the Taleem of the Quran and Sunnah. Somebody who respects the fact that you know, there is something called the new source that is absolutely there is no question when Allah and His messenger say something that is the end of it. And of course, this would automatically imply for me what I call generics and ism, because obviously, you have to respect the books of the Sunday you have to respect the sahaba. You can't really have to Aleem of the nuts in my opinion, the way that I wanted. And again, this is going to differ from person to person

So I personally, am going to cast a wide net that as long as you are what are called generic Sunni, and what is the generic Sunni, as I said, most important is that they have a theological respect of the Sahaba, that the Sahaba are not going to lie the Sahaba are trustworthy narrators of the Quran. Number two, that overall they have the generic after the of the six are kind of Hadith of God. So if somebody makes any kind of other, that's kind of sort of, you know, not mainstream anymore, they've gone they've, you know, lost the plot here. Now, this would necessitate that they respect our to northend tradition, broadly speaking, me personally, I, I understand there are variations within

that to Roth. But as long as you understand that, you know, the coach of Asuna Dakota Bella hadith is a unifying factor. The end of the day, we all study even hijab in the end of the day, we all study, you know, the Great's icons of Lula, and if they've seen it, even if personal preference is one might say be a ball we there's been cathedra I personally am okay, it's not it's not a big deal. If you prefer berry law be overdone. Kathy, this is within the mainstream. So I, in my mystery, we have a very clear policy because I'm in charge of,

you know, in terms of theological people who can come in not, we have a very broad base. And if you look at the people that have come theologically, they're all different stripes, you know, I, I don't want to enforce a narrow stripe upon the masjid going, but I do have my red lines, nobody who crosses the Sahaba is gonna get to preach in my masjid, you know, nobody who denies an Austin maroon bedarra Azmuth, this offset is going to come to my masjid and preach. So that's the narrowest go a little bit broader than this. Building Islamic schools, financing budgets, I'm not going to do a vetting of your personality that even if you have views that are not within mainstream, but hey,

we're coming together, sending our kids to the same school, that Islamic school in America, we need lots of people to come together, you know, it's going to be a little bit broader, a little bit broader than that. political engagement, political engagement against a Islamophobic, you know, person, right, we want to say we as Muslims disagree with this islamophobe right. We want him to be out of office, this come together and rally and whatnot. In this case, I might even get people that I don't view as Muslims, but they identify as Muslims. Right, there are Filipinos out there that are so like, you know, the new Saudis. Let's be very, very, very, very blunt here. Right. You know,

they're after either is not within the mainstream because they don't pray, they don't fast. That's that's way beyond the red light, you know, but you know, what, for political campaigning, to fight against an Islamophobe to come together and, and have some type of issue politically speaking, and I'm not vetting there after that, that you're given homeless. So I'll make that even broader in this regard. So this is your first issue and that is unity. The second issue, how do we go about, like, what are really the red lines if you like, I would say that the real the real red line is where we say this person is simply not tianni You know, within Islam is obviously the committee. Right? So

anybody who denies Yanagida heilala, Muhammad Rasul Allah Now, obviously, there's going to be a little bit discussion here but a part of denying the Kadima is to really not have any rebuttal. Because when you say La ilaha illa, Allah, there is no deity worthy of worship other than Allah, there must be worship. So those groups that don't have worship and don't have rituals and don't have the mainstream of Sharia, I don't view them as having fulfilled the first record. And then of course, the only honeymooner Boo is for me a clear red line and given a very, I got a lot of trouble online, but it is what it is the only Mohamed Salah so I said that there is no question there is a

red line beyond which you are not a Muslim. So anybody who believes that there is white after the in Qatar, you know, of our processes after the white Congress has stopped coming down upon him, why he continued upon another person, this person is outside of the deen of Islam. So that person we will say you are not even if you identify as a Muslim, we don't consider you to be a Muslim. Now, even that person in my estimation and opinion, we say we don't consider those there. But we're not going to do anything physical where do we do physical, only those who become violent, only those who are actually killing other people such as the extreme hydrates and whatnot. Those are the people where

we will band together and we will say not only do we not view you as being Orthodox and mainstream, but we don't we don't want your existence on earth because you are harming our existence. And my also for this is the policy of immediate meaning it though the Allahu it's out and about the people of know how, when and how and the how to rock the original HotJobs. Right. What did he say to them as as reported in poverty because he What did he say to them when you tried to debate and 1/3 of them remain and they were adamant they're not going to change their after either. He said to them, they said and it comes to be, we have no right to force you to give up your after either. As long as

you do not harm us. You are until we shall come you do as you do. I can't force you, you know, I've entered to Caribbean has had a Korean War meaning you can't force people to believe so I didn't know the law one instituted the policy of toleration and not acceptance. This is a key point we don't know

Except you, we don't like the Euro theology. And this is what I apply to all Monson non Sunni groups. In fact, all groups that I don't agree with, I don't agree with you, but I'm not going to become violent. I'm not going to exile you I'm not going to try to try to want to harm you. But I'm not going to agree with you. I, where will I say no, we need to become come together and protect and don't want you to be around on earth when you're killing when you're raping, pillaging, plundering, which is what I do the alarm did when the house a lot when the original Hutterites killed Mohammed bin Ahmad vinyasa, right and his wife when they killed him, that's when he sent the Army goes Enough

is enough. We can't allow it to exist. So that's my two cents. Would it be Would you agree with the simple dictum that anyone who disagrees with that which is known in religion by necessity, I don't want to which you can count these things and recite them in a few minutes. That that is the line that exits someone outside of Islam because when you take take the shahada and you say that Kadima teen, there is an assumption there of what you are entering. When you say the word Islam.

Theoretically, yes, yeah, mystically, practically specific issues might vary from time to place to era. Okay, but theoretically that is the nucleus. And now as sunnah would be defined slightly narrower than that, that that which is how it is explicit, but not so well known. But it is explicit. There's no debate about no no, that's I had assumed that would be defined as going back to the Sunnah as, as the books of Hadith that we are all in agreement upon. That's what I had assumed that is right, because theoretically, all the group's pre pre modern groups believe that the Prophet system is worthy of being followed. Even the more visited didn't deny that right. What makes a

sunnah and the Sunnah, is the fact that they follow the particular trajectory of how we know the Sunnah. Okay, theoretically, no Athan actually is going to say I'm not going to follow the promises. That's cool for you. This is a very modern notion that has come from the Quran, you'll pre modernity, no sect of Islam actually made in card of following at Barnaby salutes and and that is Mr. Hill accent. You can't imagine a Muslim saying that. So the actual trade off then is what is different and not following the theoretical construct because for one group that is the Imams right for them that is the Sunnah and we're like no I'm sorry bro. Allah didn't appoint one person to

represent the Prophet system I have to disagree with you you know I personally don't make defeat and mass of that group I got very clear they are 100 be that this is the definition of added but I this is what elevate I was when the term was invented this group because they do not cover and they have another source of war, which is the Imams and whatnot, but I don't make that fit and mass I don't make the fit of the group at all. And if they come to our Masjid fine and an army amongst them, I might I might pray, but definitely not somebody who I know MC sub Sahaba I know MC spine of our mother Archer Would not I have never prayed and I don't ever plan to prevent somebody who does that

type of theological difference. So no, it's a bit more precise. And that is

the Sunnah are those who take their theologies from the mainstream books of Hadith and Sunnah, which, for example, implies clutter, right? Because the other group doesn't believe in clutter because they don't follow the books of cinema, for example. It implies respecting the idea of the Sahaba as a generic rule that it they're not going to lie about the D these are these are things that come from our tradition lower. Okay, Schuco Surat quick definition. As I said I posited something chick yesterday posited something else took yesterday said the Sunni as soon as defined by returning back to the books of a sunnah for your theology, I had said that I had a sunnah is that or

remove someone from medicine is denying that which is cuts I explicit in both the Quran or the Hadith. So what is your response to this? Yes, with regard to that, so why I mentioned the athlete or heavy rock Allah was because the Creed contains tenets of faith. Because the entire Creek it's actually very intelligently composed. It contains that which is my Alma don't say Dean, the dura and Alma along with the ruler in the Sunnah, it contains both. So when you go through the text, you will notice there are points that if you reject them, a person will become a carfit. But there are other points, like almost silent profane, that if a person rejects, he would not be deemed a caliphate,

but he will be deemed al Qaeda. How do we display a distinction between these two types of tenants with regard to Alma along with the Rudra 15 It's not their data and patios taboo it established through Quran or more

The work that hadith, but it signification is also a very meaning what it refers to is known to the common man when he reads it. The motherlode is well known, what is signified is well known, but there are tenets of faith that may not be in Hadith mutawatir or they may be in the Quran or in the mutawatir Hadith, but the methylone what it signifies is not clear cut to the the layperson, but there is each mer and the meaning. So each bar is a source of local and Sunnah Waldemar. The drama as a source of love was only rejected by the more as ILA and the Shia and nearly centuries later, Ashoka Annie adopted this, when when Ashoka only when you summarize Zarqa Xi's book in a solo FIP

when he summarized that he placed the rejection of EMR as a source of load. A common misconception amongst people is EMR entails EMR for everyone when in reality, it just entails EMR and he had the people of HD had. So if there is a tenet of v, which is not your data, but Don Knuth

or it is oto for booth, one new data that can fall under an unknown bidder or in the Sunnah. And if it is coupled with each bar, of course, it falls under an unknown bit, the ruler in the Sunnah. So that is like the decreed of the Howey is a unifying creed. It's something that should never be understated. It's a unifying creed. If that becomes let's say, in the Western Hemisphere, we have an agreement that this is the creed of all the Sunni Muslims and they will not go against any tenant found in this grid, you will have a unifying factor that the tally cost of later on, can cause it enough like edema will result Hanafy as his commentary on the Taha via, but then you have the

tertiary classical commentaries like Abdulghani alone, Emile may done his commentary, when you compare the two, there are certain things which are added in by it might be a is or even not sort of denial and ban he he rejects passages from the Taha here like the passage which mentions the six directions, that Allah is not contained by the six directions or Allah is not a does not have a word or instrument he rejects it. So, this rejection it violates the unity of Atlas and that upon a creed like the Taha via, so, a modern update can be an actual commentary on Dr. Javier adding a new issues like evolution theory is the response to modern response to evolutionary theory, the modern response

to various Cofer type beliefs that are being promulgated today, but in short, that is what I mean by Alma along with the Euro India. Okay, good. So, now, we discussed, we discussed that now, we discussed that unity is within Sona, we discussed different definitions of it, as soon when we talk about how to interact, we're not most viewers are not going to be responsible for some institutions, they will be responsible for who their kids play with, what families they invite to dinner, who they marry. So there is in practical implication on how we act if someone is outside of Islam altogether while claiming to be a Muslim. Or is an innovator okay with with our definition that we gave is in

moped idea, and our religion warns us from such interactions like nobody who works at NBC would possibly hang out with anyone who ever hung out with the kk k, right? So they have a concept of disavow every group of people, Muslims, Jews, Christians, liberals, everyone has a concept of disavow that I can't even be seen with this person. Well, our religion also points us to that. Right It says that certain groups certain there's a limit to who you're going to befriend and keep their company the regular Muslim

educated lady or not must you know it deal with this? Because every I don't want to say every family of my Allah protect the different families but

every community, every group of friends is going to have somebody who may be outside one of these circles. Now we need to know how do we interact? Alright, so sure, cancer, that's where yes, we talked about masajid and that stuff was all good. I understood that circle. I liked that and paradigm of the circles but now let's get more granular, regular Muslim guy. My neighbor is I don't know something else. They don't go to our Masjid.

Right, but there's something else like, you can see, there's a lot of possible confusion that could happen.

So, in my humble opinion, Yesi, this is not a mathematical equation that you can apply. Rather, it's a common sense and intuition, and it will vary from time to place to culture to circumstance, right? It's just overall, you use your common sense and intuition. And you weigh the pros and cons for every single opportunity in person. And it might vary. So for example, for example, if there is a neighborhood watch that all the neighbors have to come together, we recognize everybody we know just in case the stranger come in such an audience in gathering, you're not going to worry about their IP does this is now you're coming together again, goes back to my circles of cooperation, by the way,

right, your neighbor, whether you like it or not, he lives next to you. And for the sake of your kids and your community, there should be some rapport and some positive friendships so that you can protect each other in case of calamities, you know, you want your neighbor to be there if your children eat, and vice versa. So I don't believe our religion is like that, such that we have to be, you know, so divisive, that even if I disagree with my neighbor, I cannot be polite, or I cannot invite them over. But if somebody is harmful to your, you know, religion, or a dean or your children's Dean, that's a different thing altogether. So that's why even our tradition, the Sunni

tradition, actually makes a distinction between a die a little bit up in between a person of Buddha, a die, either leader was not given the same treatment as a person of Buddha, right? Even our own tradition has this within the masala within the Hadith are shown. And I think this is a simple common sense is that your neighbor happens to be born in Iran, he follows a different strand of Islam. He's an innocent army guy, right? Doesn't even know anything, what not, he's not calling to anything, it's just your neighbor, are you going to treat him like you would treat somebody who's going to tell your children about either debate. And while we're in New Zealand, whatnot, you know,

there's a difference between the two. So I think there's a common sense that comes here, that is a person going to bring harm to you or your children, in which case, you'll have your guard up, and you interact with them when they need to, versus

that is actually a methodology, because more so than an instinct, because you mentioned for example, harm. You mentioned measurement of harm. You mentioned, for example, the neighborhood watch versus what was the other example, you said, the day it had been up, right? Or things so you do have a thought process here? Because someone, I'm gonna say, Listen, I want a playbook. I don't want to go judge my instinct, my instinct could be corrupted, my instinct could be influenced, I want to play. There's no equation, though you weigh the Masada Hanmer facet, you weigh the pros and cons. That's what the Shediac says, you know.

So there are certain things you look at. But the point is, I can't give you a definitive list because things might change. Next year, there could be another issue where another thing is added to this list, there are certain things that will never change, you know, is this person preaching something that is like, let's just be very controversial? I mean, to people are the same gender party together, right, and they're your neighbor, and inviting them over is it's a different game, it's a totally different issue in front of your kids, you know, inviting them over and normalizing that is not the same as somebody who was born in Iran, for example, you see, I'm saying, you know,

these differences. So there's a level of common sense here that the overall goal as there's a heavy thinner Muslim American, but not yet called the hammock, a letter T. Nobody should eat your food except a machete. Now, the goal here is that not that you don't share your food to the hermit, if there's a a meeting here, which is that those whom you make muscle habit with those whom you're the closest to, they should have a level of Taqwa that's beneficial to you and your family. Right? This is a common sense here, your closest friend, your closest group of family, friends, should have overall positive influence on you and your children. That's a common sense issue here. However,

yeah, I'm just saying society dictates that you cannot cut off from people that are that would be completely the world we live in, you're going to associate with them, but they don't have to be your best friends. And you might have to invite them over for a business meeting for the community, or neighborhood watch. Right? But that's not masahisa. Right. So that's all I'm saying. That's whenever. So let me ask you one more question. You mentioned the broad net of Edison. And let's say for masajid, hooked up classes, Islamic schools, I want to say that there is a practical element to where that's that that may run into when you're dealing with a lot of people and you want to take a

lot of people up a mountain, right? You sort of need one GPS, and it doesn't mean that we're going to pitch a fight, pick a fight with that group or another group. Right? But if you want to take people and you have a community, for example, and you're teaching something, even for the furore, if they're constantly getting different opinions, practically speaking, that leads a young person to a lot of just confusion and intimidation of

Knowledge. Whereas if I took a young person, I said, Listen, all of us, we're going to study this book. There are many other books. But this is what we're going to study for the next 10 years. They at least will be very competent in that book. And then you could tell them, Okay, there are we told you, there are many other books out there, at least you're not competent in this men hedge, whether it be off to EDA or FIP. In contrast, let's observe masajid were

different Monette heads are coming in different giving different classes, those kids, they tend to be like, I don't know what's what, right. I never finished one set book. I don't know what anything is. So they they're definitely good. They're good in their dean, they're in the masajid. But they can't put A and B together. So I'm just saying, practically speaking, in terms of is not division, but its practicality. Much can be unpacked here. I would say that the larger the community and the bigger the audience you have the lower the bar has to be for the sake of unity. So if you have like a small neighborhood, Masjid, and your your close group is coming there, that's very different than

having one of the largest mysteries in America. We shot list 700 people for budget, okay, you cannot wala, you're going to come off as a bigoted sectarian. Yeah, and you're gonna cause bigger fitna, when you have a very narrow definition of who are we going to invite to lead the Sudan give the hope and whatnot, you have to be very open. However, inviting somebody for a one off lecture is not the same as hiring a resident scholar. Correct? Yep. That's the whole point here. No, in our community, we have an understanding that, hey, we're going to invite people in a fairly broad spectrum, and they're going to come and they will be welcome. And they're going to feel welcome. But in the end of

the day,

I feel welcome when I come out in October

of this hour, now you're more than welcome. Doesn't even apply to come in at the end of October, Joe, and Charlotte grid, I didn't know that text me the dates and everything. Right? Okay. But I also want to flip the script back to you and say, Hey, don't we need to teach our community that the world is a very multicolored, multifaceted place, and that it's not just this isolated, you know, laboratory pure, pristine environment, they should be made aware. And in fact, and again, not to get too personal. But let's just say, these types of things have happened in the past where particular people came that were not necessarily on my wavelength. And people did come and ask me, Hey, aren't

you sending conflicting messages? When you invite somebody that says this? And then you say that, and I say maybe to the person who only attends one in one, maybe, but for my audience who regularly attends No, I want to raise the bar of intelligence and raise the bar of actual Philip, that hey, realize that even if I disagree, he's still my brother to stop. And I give him the platform and I allow him to spread an idea that's not stopped for a libre, it's not antithetical to Allah and his messenger man, let's let's wander back to reality. They're not preaching against Allah with the villa. They have a slightly different understanding that, okay, it goes back 1000 years and no

problem, but him did it up. So I'm actually teaching intelligence and tolerance in what I'm trying to do.

And I agree with that, in terms of awareness and in terms of general Dini wealth, we call Dawa. I'm. But for practicalities purposes, if you run an institution, and you're educating the curriculum,

yeah, that goes back to yeah, yes. When it comes to educating and Tobia advanced students, yes, as I said, Your narrowest your narrowest circle is going to be you know, who you so yeah, I understand, bro. Maybe, for example, you wouldn't want me to teach AP data in certain institutions, no problem that will lie. I understand. No problem. By the way, you're more than welcome to come to ours to Jesus, Islamic, you're always welcome. You're always welcome at NBC. And I think you can bounce before. Yeah. But my point is that I understand that people have, you know, different views in this regard. And yes, when you're teaching actual Mattoon to advanced students, you can't expect them to

study different modalities from the beginning and get go fully, fully, fully on board with that, okay. Okay, great. So I love this circle of engagement model, because it makes a lot of circles of cooperation. Now shifts are not final say on because we will have two minutes to wrap up and shift yesterday. We have to respect his heart stop at the 30 mark. So we'll be what 730 to you. 230 here and 130 in Texas.

Your final comments on this matter of interaction practically speaking, what is your guidance to people practically speaking, marriage, friendship, neighbors, all these things Muslims need to navigate these. And the quick and easy way out is we're almost done. Let's have a good heart. Let's have a clean heart. That's a quick way out. The harder and the more more consistent way out is no there is a Mamilla

With everyone based on the relationship, so based upon that, what's your closing cost? I would say this issue relates to FIP. Very simply put, if the Sahiwal beta is a person who will affect your creed, then it's haram to associate with Him. If the socket will be Tao will influence you in his bed that then it's it's impermissible to associate with him. Similarly,

if however, you influence the socket will be that meaning the lay the lay person, the Sunni lay person will influence the socket with data and and guiding then this is encouraged if he is able to do that, as for the Allamah they are permitted. The ultimate gherkin is permitted to interact with albida because he has L and he's he has Tama Coonan in his end with regard to calling people to your Masjid to lecture if theoretically if people like in America, you and Dr. Yasser

you Dr. Yasser has accommodated you in his Masjid. Now in here in our community, we have a concept which is known as a surgical coolie which you cannot associate with people of innovation, you do not go to their massage, you do not lecture in their massages, they do not come to your Masjid. In America, the situation is slightly different. But you have an individual like Dr. Yasser now is very accommodating. I would say that the acid official creed is let's say they assume that he will develop to Hawaii. Everything after that is totally thought it's just totally caught. And he will only discuss that with the Allamah he does not need to convey or preach views which are going to

confuse people even more. When when people ask him the common man asks him, what is your creed refers back to the hobby creed. And then you have the form of that tradition, the form of that herb is a broad tradition. So we have a very broad tradition, where a Maliki can share very humbly Hanafy we have a mother I'm about to go back to. So we're not limited to a narrow a narrow tradition of localized Alma from a region like a particular region. For instance, nudge scholars have not limited to that. Within the Arabian Peninsula, you have the likes of the Aqsa Oliva. If you look at the Assa AXA on the mind, Saudi in Arabia, you will notice they have the format. in Makkah they have the form

of the hips. And this is why I say dabbas Allah we said to me, whenever you give fatwa always refer back to the fatwa my father said the other day, I said, why? He said, because we're from America. And we would always interact with all the various types of Muslims who would come from Africa, from Asia, from Europe from various parts of the world. And we will keep the broadest of fatwas. So I would say, understood now algebra in America, it should be defined as to how we create, you can add the shifa of all the real, and the full mud hubs. And then anyone who brings in public new debates, which aren't unheard of, they should be reprimanded that book you should be discussing this with

orlimar not with the public. Because the scene in America seems very different for Britain. In Britain, if someone does bring up an issue of contention, the public is well informed with regard to those things. Hyde Park County everything but Britain and Hyde Park is child's play compared to Birmingham in Birmingham, and many Hyde Park is nothing you come to Birmingham at the sophistication I hope so is higher than height high art. So the this question is final question relates to Fakel muamalat and is much more nuanced. There are up classical books written on this. Remember that he addresses it in fer Aluma de anima views Supernanny addresses in Serbian Najat Imam Muhammad Chohan

addresses in Fatah al Haramain. The rich fina Dotty make, it's addressed for daytime, but application today, I would advise people to go back to El Medina, Aruba and Crete over the Mojave. Wonderful. Thank you very much. Now I know we disappointed many viewers who thought that they were going to see fireworks on a debate on the classical Mysa and

so let's leave them so that they are not totally disappointed with one little spark which is that sick Assad his if I want to start with just because rod, what kind of restaurant is this? Seafood Restaurant? Burger Joint Steakhouse, I know what it is. It's Sid creed. I know what I'm gonna get if I study with him, that we have a name for it.

because it signifies certain things. If you come to subpoena somebody, you're gonna get the same thing. Now, shift Yes, it throw a spark in your direction.

Someone says, I want to send you a shaky message. I want to join that study was like seminary, Islamic seminary. Yeah. So I need to know well, what kind of

menu am I going to get? What kind? What is the guiding principles of this update? But you are, have declared many times that you are posting with him. Yeah, is merely a signifier of a methodology. So it's fair for me to ask what is your methodology in studying Aikido? So I identify as a generic Sunni, as I said, I respect the Sahaba I respect the books of the tradition or whatnot. I don't identify as a card carrying member of any of these other strands that have come after the fourth fifth century and I respect all of them I don't have any idea what in my heart, but you have to understand Islamic Seminary is not meant to teach at the beginning thought a building level it's

meant as the graduate level. So we were not meant to teach somebody who is literally studying like any, you know, the data of anything, we're actually going to it is about to be the accredited master's level Seminary in North America. So it is meant to teach more mature students. Of course, ideally, they should have a strong Sophia, even if they don't the first few lessons, we give them that Sophia so that they move on. So if you were to study the Islamic seminary, for example, no, would you study with you? Yes, yes, yes, yes, Inshallah, you would understand why your menu is different than both these menu which is different than Medina's menu which is different than us as

menu you would understand where these menus came from, you would understand to come here and compare and contrast them and understand the, the, the context from within which each came about why are these items on the menu right on this area and not over here. So our program is to basically get the bird's eye view and go 3d Not just to go you know, to understand specifically there and overall, we teach you the tool so that you feel more empowered to then to then understand where these menus come from. And then the end of the day, I'll give you what I prefer on them and you no problem. But there's a difference between our seminary and between what I do in the masjid halacha I don't spoon

feed you what I want you to believe at the seminary, I will do to my students and a hudec on the Masjid. Yes, because it was about that. Tell us about that when you build someone up from zero so so I do not personally I do not want them to be sectarian and I'm very against this personally, I don't want them to have in their heart any type of actual hit door or jail or looking down upon anybody who has a habit of Allah and the Sunnah of the Prophet slow said, right. So I don't really get into the advanced controversies. At that level. I think it is a mistake to teach a moped edit, or move Teddy, Teddy. These types of controversies and I'll teach them but half of it so in my mystery what

we do is like our binder, we will do like the basic Tafseer we'll do like stuff that is Imaan building and get in our binder. We're for example, I go into the controversial site at a very bird's eye view that hey, some people said this, some people said this, but inshallah you know, this is what unites us. So I think we build their Iman, again, what I call upon Hadith Jibreel. Generic scientism? I personally don't like an especially in the American context of the Assad is coming from the British context. I don't know if he's visited America now. But we have a very different dynamics here. And I don't think it is healthy to pigeonhole, you know, our misogyny and our youth into a

very narrow definition of Satanism, a very narrow definition of Islamic law. Give them an opinion and say respect the other opinions out there. mulloway

zecco okay. That was their final final question for Sheikh Asad, on his methodology of teaching. Peter Schiff, thank you very much for coming on. Do you have one final will see it for all of us? Yes. Just to

mention that in Chatelet when Dr. Yasser comes to Britain inshallah we will meet up and we will discuss some of these finer points in private shallow, there are other and we have much to discuss in person in sha Allah.

Like when I met you, Dr. Shadi and UK, and but as you said, We're from the same tradition as Shadi.

In terms of Madame Madame alga, we have full schools to refer back to it's a broad tradition. And because it's a broad tradition, it's very practical in America as well if you if you promote formatives and then within the format that you have so many Roma that, you know, just look at an image more sharper and better, but we must know the size of the book, and then subkeys addendum to the book, it just shows you the broadness of the highlights

Now we'll jemar But inshallah inductee acid or the comes to a UK we will meet up in sha Allah I've never been to America and to avoid America but when Dr. yasak comes here inshallah we'll meet up and discuss some of these things in private in sha Allah. All right, wonderful. Thank you both for coming on. Hope everyone benefited all the viewers took some good Samara and brought our OMA together and showed how we could talk about matters and most importantly, this. There's so many

groups, organizations and billions of dollars that are trying to shred Muslims apart, but more even more important bliss is behind all of this division and sectarian between Muslims and that's something that should he has to emphasize phenomena which if Assad emphasized so 100 Oh, it's great to have you both hear and be able to talk about these matters and inshallah Tada we can do it again some time and maybe also in person Subotica la humo behandelt Nisha Illa illa Anta the software quality with a colossal in Santa Fe of course Illa Allah Dena amino amino CIDA her towards well, so we'll hop over to our sub sub was set up

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