The Importance of Seeking Good Islamic Advice

Umm Jamaal ud-Din


Channel: Umm Jamaal ud-Din

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AI: Summary © The speakers discuss the negative consequences of not asking for help in situations where one person is pressured into not being able to say their rights or do anything wrong, the struggles of women in their roles, and the importance of learning about one's religion to avoid problems such as headaches and stress. They emphasize the need for women to find a judge who understands them and use the power of their knowledge to empower others and avoid embarrassment. The speakers also touch on the negative impact of not having the right knowledge and being disempowered, and the importance of being patient and not giving too many answers to people who don't know who they are.
Transcript ©
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Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Well, I'm excited to have on Jamal back again for another really important discussion. And today's discussion is all about the importance of getting good information Islamic clean. It's something that on Jamal is very passionate about, and I'm going to hand over to her so she can explain a bit about that inshallah song later on tomorrow. Why become profitable? Okay. Hi, Sister Catherine. Yeah, good. hamdulillah hamdulillah you know, first of all, we have to think about what Todd has told us and

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like, when we don't know something, Allahu Allah has told us this and earn a degree in quantum letterland if you don't know something in your religion, and you're having doubts about that, then you need to go and ask someone have more knowledge, you know, inshallah, this is what takes outside of a person's heart. And if we look at, you know, what we mean, Arusha What do you love one huh? We see how she praised the the women of the Assad you know, because of the fact that they didn't let shyness prevent them from from asking about the matters of bed Dean about their religion. Now, what happens is when when sisters don't ask, is, you know, they end up making life very difficult for

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themselves in a lot of cases you know, they don't you see, a lot of sisters have placed unnecessary burdens on themselves for not asking you find them doing extra things that they don't need to do that. And the result in that is that you can end up feeling really stressed and feeling like religion is all too hard for you.

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You know, a lot of the time in the Quran he's told us to help easy he's made this religion for us to practice you know, says well, you can leave alone Epson in that was like that there's no burden on a soul more than a person can bear. And another is is magic Allah, Allah a comfy demon, how much that he hasn't made, you know, hardship in this religion, and how Allah wants you know, the ease for us, you need low because we use it all whether you need to become a nurse.

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So Panama,

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you know, this is some of the you know, things in our religion that teaches us how,

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you know, how Allah wants ease for us. But you know, one of the main comments I do get, you know, a lot from sisters that happen to stumble across my Facebook page, for example, you know, they make that comment of, you know, how they're so relieved, they finally got this answer to their questions, and I've been waiting years to get an answer, like, they've been too embarrassed to speak to a male shift, for example. Or maybe they're isolated, like, we all know how big Australia is, it's just as our country towns

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that have no access to knowledgeable shifts that they can ask, you know, I'm also language barriers, as you know, like, not everybody has an English speaking shift in their, in their town or the city. So, um, so that's, that's one of the reasons why it's, you know, somehow lost. So, you know, this is what can happen if

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people, you know, don't have the opportunity to, to, to, to be able to ask, and then the other thing too, that I find that the main thing that's, that's one of the main things making the region too hard for ourselves, but besides that, you've got the more extreme cases of consequences of not asking is that they can end up placing themselves or their children in harmful situations, like, if you don't know, your rights, and Islam as a woman,

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as a wife, then you know, your boundaries. You know, if you don't know your rights, as a woman, you won't know your boundaries. And if you don't know your boundaries, then you're not able to stand up for yourself, you're not able to stand up for your rights and say, Well, wait a minute, a lot of handles, give me the right to do you know, such and such. And so, you know, one of the sad things that I'm sure you've even seen yourself, Katherine, and you'll be very aware of, is that sadly, Islam, in many cases, is actually used to oppress sisters, you know, that the above, you know, the men who are, you know, the type of men that actually, uh, you know, we call them abusers, um, you

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know, they often will actually use Islamic teachings to try to use that to oppress sisters and you know, so due to the system lacking knowledge, they can be made to feel guilty and they can be controlled by making them feel that they just disobey a loss of pantalla so what happens if the sister continues to put up with that bad treatment and so that's that's, that's one of the really, you know, bad consequences of not being able to ask um, you know, as you know, you know, abusers like you I recently listened to a talk he had given you know, about being in abusive relationship you know, like how they use emotional blackmail that and they, they, they try to make you feel

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guilty and control you and, and like I said, one of the worst forms of that is when they use these teachings to try to make you feel guilty because obviously most most sisters are very sincere, they're trying to please a loss of control and the last thing they want to do, is displeased a lot and this is

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Why, and you would have seen that again, this is why unfortunately in particular reverts, I find they're at particular risk, because, you know, they don't have that strong foundation, most cases of Islamic teachings. And so that's why it's very easy for them to be bullied into accepting situations that they found themselves in. And, you know, we find a lot of a lot of women out, like putting up with so much, you know, like, they feel so depressed due to their situation. Many times they believe that they have to stay in that situation, they're not allowed to leave, or because they don't know what their rights are. And obviously that what is what is the consequences of that one of the worst

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consequences of that is having doubts about your religion, you start thinking, What's your religion is this you know, this religion oppressors, you start to believe that what's the propaganda against Islam, you start to actually believe it for yourself, unfortunately, because you haven't been shown that, you know, that beautiful, the beautiful teachings of Islam hasn't been implemented in your house or you've never been exposed to that. So you actually start to believe propaganda against Islam.

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So upon Allah, I was really fortunate that Allah subhanaw taala planted such strong faith in my heart, because what I went through could well have been the case. And what you're explaining is exactly what happened. Every time I bought any kind of Islamic book to learn anything about my Deen, I'd be told, oh, no, you better not read that. Because in that book, there's weaker deeds or something, if you're going to, that's going to mean that you're going to do the wrong thing, because you're not you don't know enough. And I was ever taken away from actually having knowledge so that I would be empowered. And I knew in my gut that what was happening wasn't right. But every time I

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spoke up about it, it just brought upon more beautiful myself. And when I challenge things like his use of marijuana, for instance, I'm read, I forget what by even taymiyah, who said that all the rulings relating to alcohol, also apply to hashish, and therefore to any other kind of drugs. And so when I understood that I felt the courage to say to him because I knew in my heart, it couldn't be right. And it just on more and more abuse, when I would try and stand up for things. And honestly, had I known anything about my Deen before I even started down the process of getting married. I would never have married him in the first place, because there were all the warning signs there. And

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but I didn't understand them because I didn't know anything about my religion.

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Yeah, I'm a walking talking example of Exactly.

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Exactly. And the other thing that I've learned through my journey is, you know, how you were saying about the religion isn't difficult, is every time it's felt difficult? When I've explored it further, it may, it's usually meant that either I haven't understood something properly. Or the person who's explained it to me hasn't had it. Right. Exactly.

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So the some of the questions, you know, the normal questions I do get asked, I mean, I just actually recently joined Facebook, I'm,

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like, this last year, like hearing about, I think,

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May, something like that. Previously to that I've, you know, been at least 1520 years, you know, answering questions in my local community here in Sydney. But I thought it's time to, you know, open up and make myself more available to assist is because there's so many systems on the internet, but just don't have access, you know, to people that can ask questions from

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just to get rundown of some of the types of questions I've been getting, like, like, when I first joined Facebook, and, you know, put my post out about being here for sisters. So I got an overwhelming response. And I've got so many sisters saying, you know, just like a lot here, you know, we've been, they haven't known where to go to, to be able to ask a lot of their questions. But, you know, obviously, the main question you usually get being as a, you know, female who's, you know, you know, studied the religion, for example. Usually, the main question you're going to get is about men's shoes, obviously, like sisters, I mean, you know, we all know how difficult it is to

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work out, you know, different rulings on our menses, you know, and especially when it comes to, you know, working out whether the blade is actually menstrual or irregular bleeding. And obviously, you know, often you need to go into finer details that you're going to be very embarrassed to have to talk to a male about, you know, the nitty gritty to try to work out whether that, you know, blood you're seeing is actually your menstrual blood or is it you know, irregular bleeding. And then obviously, sisters asked me about what they can and can't do while they're on their menses. Then I also get sisters who are looking for ways to feel stronger in their email.

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Now, that's not something you can often really go to a male chef and ask them about, you know, to ask them, you know, you know that they're struggling with any man and they want just some reassurance.

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Maybe they want to get some reassurance about putting on the hijab, or they've got some anxiety issues they're going through, they might have worries that they're, you know, they've got gin, stuff like that. So they just want to talk to someone, and they feel pretty silly, in a lot of cases to talk to a chef, and it's limited conversation that you're going to feel comfortable with when speaking to, for example, a male ship. Um, and then, of course, the questions I get come down to mainly, you know, having problems with their husbands, or having, you know, General complaints about the treatment of their husbands. You know, they want to know what they can do. And they want to

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know, if it was especially they want to know, is what they're going through normal. You know, is it normal? And are they justified in feeling upset by you know, what's happening to them?

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Now we get, you know, obviously, you get a lot of cases as well, besides that of, you know, sisters being abused by in laws, that's one thing, and then you get the sisters who are involved in polygamous, polygamous relationships, so they want to know, their rights. Like, sometimes you get really like, unfortunately, horrific cases where, you know, that the husband's sort of expecting the women to live in the same house together. And, you know, they're having a really like, he's not spending on them, and you get some really, like, extreme cases, sometimes with that.

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And then on, and especially, you know, one of the cases we do get, I want to point stuff seems really sad, to us is like, and then now your second wife, and you only visit, so like, maybe once a week for half an hour or something like that, and she's not getting any rights.

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You get a lot of these kind of very extreme cases. Um, so most women, they basically do contact me, but they want to save their marriage. And they're just asking, How can I do that? What can I do to save my marriage? But you know, then you do get like sisters and severe domestic violence? marriages, they're not getting any rights, the husband's not, you know, spending on them. And they want to know, do they have grounds for for law? Like, again, sisters don't want to disobey a law, but they want to know, do I have the grounds Am I justified in going to the sheriff and asking for the shift or not, in my case, and all it says is don't even know they can get for that. That's

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another thing, which is, you know, getting separated, or, you know, having the the marriage contract, being separated from the marriage contract, like, they don't actually know that, they just think that they, you know, that they've just got no way out of the relationship.

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And then you've also another another one, I do get as well as I get when I get sisters who are involved with me, and the man isn't marrying her. So he's like playing around with her knees. He's kind of put on a stream. And he keeps on saying, y'all marry you later, later, later. But like, in the meantime, they're having this like, long relationship, and she wants to know what she can do, you know, like, you know, what should she do like to get him to marry her? Or, you know, so get those kind of questions that they're the main questions I get, but I have to say, I'm hungry. Like, I'm really, I really think there's a law that I've also heard sisters approach men who've got

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homosexual inclinations. And they felt great relief in your being able to find someone that they could open up to, you know, as you know, it's a very taboo subject. It's not something you know, you can't talk about it openly, because you get judged. And, um, you know, and even atheism, as well, I've had sisters approached me about, like, they've got they're feeling locked out from their religion, they just really want to open up to someone, and be able to sort of work through how they're feeling. And yeah, so that those are the kind of questions like, I basically, you know, that they'll put me in a nutshell of the majority of the questions that, you know, I'm gonna be able to

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deal with inshallah.

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You know, that's a really key point about the judgment, because a lot of what holds people back from seeking help, is that fear of being judged. And unfortunately, we, we do have a lot of problem with judgment, in our own money, and even amongst our leadership, and so it isn't, doesn't feel safe to go and ask. And that's why it's really, really important that sisters particularly have a place where they can ask, and don't give up. Like, if you've, if you've tried asking, and in your gut, it doesn't feel like you're getting the right advice. It just, it doesn't sit right with you keep looking. And I'm not talking about those people who do factory hopping, yes.

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about, you know, from a human perspective, it doesn't make sense what you've been told to do, for instance, the example I can give you is, you're in the middle of an a domestic violence. There's every risk that if you go back, you'll be killed, and the mom saying be patient go back. Yeah, that doesn't sit right. about those sorts of things, is keep looking until you find the right person who's going to help you and give you the proper Islamic answer. And, and I can't stress enough how empowering it was when my first teacher introduced me to the concept of evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. Then there are certainly there are issues where

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It's a judgment, but that at least with that judgment, there will be verses from the court and there will be Hadith of the Prophet philosopher that will tie it together, they'll say that I've made this judgment based on this evidence

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matters where the evidence is just plain and clear. Hmm. And so it's actually okay to say, when you're not sure about the answer that you hear, what is the evidence from the Quran? And can I see the verse from the Quran? Can I see the Hadith and the

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produce that then put a big question mark, that was for me, because I spent the first nine years of being a Muslim in complete ignorance, that for me, that was empowering, to be able to do that. And then it became also my tool once I did have some knowledge, when people from different cultural backgrounds would come to me and they would try and enforce their culture on me. I would say to them, oh, I haven't heard that before in a witness, like pretending I didn't know who Yeah. Can you give me the evidence for that? Because I always like to check the evidence out before I take something on and they would see they wouldn't be able to find it.

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Yeah, so we've seen a lot of sisters, you know, they go through a lot of unfortunately, as you had described to me before, you know, heartaches and headaches due to not being able to ask or not, you know, finding someone to ask, um, you know, if we look at just general cases, you know, of sisters, for example, when it comes to issues of bajada, you know, of like, what invalidates your will do so, for example, a lot of sisters who think that if they touch Naja so they touch, you know, impurity that that nullifies they will do, and I think they have to every time they change their baby's nappy, for example, they have to go and take a whole new will do things like that. So they're

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making, you know, they make a nice way, they make a lot of difficulties on themselves, you know, when it comes to prayer, they think that, you know, if they pray on the ground outside that that's nudges. They think that's impure. And then I realized that, you know, the prophets that alarm us and told us that, you know, he made, you know, allies made it as you know, the whole earth as a Masjid for us to pray. And except for specific places, like, you know, places where there's an adjuster places where there's impurity, so like, as long as there's no dog fields, you know, for example, on the ground while you're praying, basically, you can pray anyway to pray in a park. And you don't

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have to miss your prayers, because that's the consequences of not having that knowledge. You might think, Oh, I can't pray anywhere, and I'm going to wait till I go home, and you end up missing your prayers. So this is how, you know also we fall into, you know, becoming negligent in our religion. Unfortunately, by not having, you know, Islam is very simple, some kind of law when you really come and study your religion. That's why I encourage every sister to really get at least your foundation, study your foundations, at least, because you see how much easier the region becomes to you. Like, we're putting a lot of unnecessary

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restrictions on ourselves and making it difficult for us. So when in fact, it's done, it's very easy to practice the power law.

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But just give you some examples of extreme cases of sisters who have a lot of headaches, by not asking and not having the knowledge of religion like I should be handed up, you know, although I've been dealing with some citizens had OCD, you know, like, where they're very

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paranoid about, just about impurities and out when a candidate like as you said, like one of my mottos actually is impairing and that's one of my mottos when I set up my Facebook page you know powering through knowledge because people don't realize how impaired it is when you're like people asking me how do you get empowered by knowledge of Islam was the Panama honestly like you said before? If you know your rights as a wife if you you know you know your knowledge it's going to take a lot of that water source away from you like the whispers of the shape on you can't affect you because you know, you know what the problems are but like the conductor is for example with OCD when

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they not like just there is only for example, like you know urine feces and menstrual blood and other some other things but in general that they with B C D they think everything is they think a lot of things and adjust to that or not like they might think that dirt isn't just for example they might think the dirt is impurity so wash themselves as I touched third. I think they've got you know, they've touched something I think that is an adjuster on them they don't understand how also to understand that ninja saw like it really does not transfer and if it's wet so I'm kind of law like that they just touch you know, the rails have something on the rail or you know, the tap or you

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know, anything that's dry, they think that they've gotten edges on them and they wash themselves several times. So things like that, you know, having that knowledge of what actually nullifies will help an adjuster and you know, impurity is transferred, things like that can can help as well people, you know, of course we've got to say as an ecologist I always recommend that you see a psychologist as well. You can't just rely on that but it definitely will help to break down some of that OCD and realize that they are being too extreme.

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You know, Washington says more than three times like the sisters would approach me with OCD, you know, spending up to like 40 minutes in the bathroom just to take a lot. And imagine the stress of that, imagine what they're going through and thinking that they haven't washed themselves properly, you know, but they have to realize that, you know, this intermarried with a man that, you know, washing your body parts more than three times is not cool. Like it's something detestable. So, and I should be thinking about also the fact that wasting water is also natural, you know. So that's some of the headaches we can get. By not asking not having, you know, it's an acknowledge but but then,

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of course, the heartaches talking about heartaches, you know, you've got, obviously, we just referred to before, you know, sister staying in marriages, and putting up with extreme cases of, you know, abuse and violence.

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And just, you know, thinking that they have to remain patient with that, not because they don't know their rights, and then asking them about their situation. They don't know, what are the different categories for when you can ask for hula, like, there are different reasons that when for that becomes

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allowed. So it's good to be able to ask someone about that. So to know that you do have grounds for that or not, you know, and then you know, me, it's kind of like only recently, which is really, you know, I've come across a lot of sad cases where this has been staying in relationships for years and years and years, thinking that they're doing the right thing. I mean, I recently came across a case where the children being physically abused by their father daily, but she scared about the us senate calling on if she leaves her husband will take full out due to that, whether it will be displeasing or loss of control. And, you know, she told me, she'd be waiting eight years, and she didn't know

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who to ask. So you know what I mean? So to kind of learn, and now she's going to take action, because she knows that No, that would be justified, to go to a second ask for Fallout, in this case, to protect your children from this violence they've been subjected to, you know, so this is why it's so important that sisters do have someone that can reach out to an ask. Yeah, um, and those children have got a long journey ahead of them healing from what they've been through. And, and of course, we're meant to protect children. I thought of another scenario where it's about understanding the deen well to is, you know, we have modesty, we cover ourselves for modest reasons. But if we're, you

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know, in a life and death situation, or a very difficult health situation, and the only doctor that's available is a male doctor, and that male doctor is going to have to examine parts of our body in order to save our life, or, or to just at least get us back on track, then modesty goes out the window, because life comfortable modesty and just understanding the logic of the religion, that we there's a time and a place for everything. And there are times when certain rulings go to the side, because there's something more important that takes place. And one example is, you know, with my daughter, she had the, the cord around her neck inside me four times. And it was a Sunday, and

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there weren't any female doctors, or a nice assist, or anyone around, but it had to be an emergency cesarean section, we would both be dead. If I said, Well, no, I can't do it. There's no female doctors with both.

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That's exactly right. And that's we have to be careful, like some sisters, unfortunately, are going to extremes in their religion, like of course, you know, we have we have had, you know, we have modesty and shyness Butler, our

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life takes precedence over that, you know, it's all modesty, you know, so, we have these visible and not go to extremes and, you know, screen on the hospital asking for a female when they don't have a female available, you know, and, you know, any scholar will tell you the same and what do you think they do in countries like Saudi Arabia, and those countries, like everybody in those countries knows that, you know, there's no female available, then, you know, you have to go with the male and that's just that's just how it is.

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Yeah, and so that's where when you really have knowledge, how it empowers you because you understand in every situation, what is the greater good, what is the greater evil I mean, even 10 is a whole book on how you weigh up between the greater good and the greater evil in each situation and work out which ruling takes precedence over the other ruling and when you understand that there is this vast area of great and Yes, okay, we might not always get it right. But as long as we are doing our best effort to please Allah, when we work out what is the greater good and the greater evil then insha Allah, if we haven't quite been right, Alo still you know, bless the fact that we made every

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effort you know, there's even the fact that the the one the the knowledgeable, one who judges when they judge right they get to rewards but if they judge me, you know,

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When, honestly, they still get one reward, they don't get punished. Yeah, exactly.

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Well, I think it's been a really good conversation and you've raised some really, really awesome points and awesome stories. And we could go on all day raising all the different stories where not having the right knowledge has left women disempowered, and not having the right person to ask has has left them lost. And you know, what, Hamdulillah, we've got you, and we've got you online. Once upon a time, that was a bit of a stress wasn't it technology was

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on like, people do not know. They're listening, they're living in today of having access to knowledge around them everywhere. Like, you know, Kevin, you've been a Muslim, probably, we've been listening for a very long time and hamdulillah we recorded a very, very long time ago. And you remember back, when we first reboot, it was no internet. So it was very hard to access any knowledge. But like, that's one of the best things

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is that this is not now we're going a step further, of showing sisters, sisters out there who were there to support us in different aspects of our life. And that's something we do not have, you know, a bit lonely, you know, literally, I mean, they had the internet to even, you know, ask our questions, but, you know, so that's why, you know, basically, I tried to, you know, be here to help the sisters, you know, I find that, you know, sisters, obviously, they open up a lot more to me, you know, able to open up a lot more to me, like we said before, you know, a lot of questions are very embarrassing, you need to go into, you know, the finer details of things, like we said before, you

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know, when it comes to like, judging whether your blood is menses, or whether it's, you know, it's the harder, you know, sometimes Unfortunately, this situations, women are going through How embarrassing, like one of the situations, you know, sisters coming to me and telling me that, you know, for example, their husbands having intercourse with them in their back package, but that passage, you know, somehow protect us. What are they divorced, like this? Like, imagine trying to ask someone you know about that question, it's a very sensitive question to ask.

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And then obviously, like I said, before, you know, you get those sisters who are out there, they just want someone to listen to them, like they're suffering, they're going through a lot of trials in their life, they just want someone to listen to them. Um, and just having someone to just reflect back what they're going through. It relieves them in so many ways. And like before, as I said before, like, you know, most of them and they're very sincere, I come across, and they really just want to please Allah, and they don't want to fall into the displeasure of a loss of pantalla.

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You know, like, for example, you know, get some sisters, they've done maybe some seasons before they've got married, and they want to know, did I don't have to tell my husband? I mean, you know, can you imagine having to ask, for example, you know, for example, I'm going to ask someone about that it's, at least it's on the internet, pretty much anonymous, and we don't know who they are, they're in another country. So they're able to, you know, ask us questions and not feel so

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those questions, and I know, I can understand the confusion that says, they don't have that knowledge.

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There was one particular time in my first marriage, where I learned about a hadith where the Prophet sallallahu wasallam said something along the lines off, that the person while they're intoxicated is not one of us.

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Now, I understand what that means now, but at the time, I thought, well, my husband is he's stoned with marijuana most of the day. Does that. So I was just saying that there was there was a time when when I learned about that Hadith that I panicked, because I thought, if if my husband is, is being stoned all the time, does that mean that he's not one of us? Does that mean I've been married to somebody who's not a Muslim? And so they're making adultery and I panicked? And when I raised him, because he was the only person I knew to raise it with? Why did I go?

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Yeah, I

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understand very much that the disempowering situation you're in when you don't have proper knowledge, and then when you get a little bit of knowledge, and you don't understand it, how it all fits together?

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That's right.

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Yeah, I mean, look at the time of the profits that along with the hobby yet, they had, you know, greater access to the profits that a loved one it was it wasn't so easy. It wasn't so difficult to approach him and ask him the questions. But besides that, you know, they had an issue about your loved one had to refer to, you know, to the level that you know, it's upon a lot. They used to even imagine that you actually used to send them

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heads to Arusha with traces of yellow, asking her, am I clean for menstruation or not? You know, because and that's another thing. You know, sometimes my sisters are praying while they still haven't got completely, you know, clean from there, there are a lot of menstruation not knowing that a lot of menstruation and you know, it starts with you know, it can be red and it can be brown, it can be yellow, it's all joined together, you know. So, um, so some analog, but that's the level that they were, you know, asking, Isha, what do you love? And obviously, they wouldn't be able to do that with a male like,

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Yes, that would be rather odd wouldn't

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listen to me those? No, no, we don't want any special bailouts to them tomorrow, thank you

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over the phone or something that will be quite sufficient. But that's awesome that we have you online that you have your Facebook page that they can contact you through. And that page linked to the button that's below the video so that if they want to find you, they know where to find you. on the page, there is a button that says send a message or something, isn't it? There's a it's quite obvious how they can send a message to you if they want to contact you and anything. Yeah, that's right. Yes. And so I mean, and you're just just like sisters, no, you're you're a one person team. So be patient, because after the summer, if you get inundated with suddenly with lots of questions

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that they might need to be patient.

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For the answers, okay, there's a lot to answer. Because I know for my role when I was, you know, teaching online, that sometimes you just your mailbox is so full of questions. It takes time to learn more, and I know, you and I know how sorry, you are, and you won't want to answer someone until you're sure of what it is that you're honest with me. If I don't know, I refer them to another senior chef to answer it in advance their questions. I will not go into the tower, you know, making fatwa or anything like that, you know, I know my place inshallah. Yeah, and that's a really key thing actually, is, you know, you can trust someone that you're asking questions of, if they're

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actually able to say, I don't know,

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if the person who can't say I don't know that you need to worry about because there's no one out there who knows everything and anything, you might ask someone and they say, I don't know, you can go well, hamdulillah that there's somebody who understands the importance of saying I don't know when I don't know.

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Exactly. Hmm. I think this has been a really valuable conversation. And I'm really happy that we've had this and I really hope that that sisters out there that have these burning questions or in these situations that they're really not sure about now realize that there is an avenue for asking and that's you. You might not be the only Avenue but that they've been inspired to start asking start looking for the answers. Because this is not meant to feel difficult. If it feels difficult, then something's wrong.

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It's exactly right. I can offer the keys to Catherine why Keith is not gonna have for taking your time out again with me today. And a salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato y equals sin m or cancel Finland.