The Deen Show – Why Jay Left The Mormon Church and Accepted Islam (What They Believe)

The Deen Show
AI: Summary © The conversation covers various guest speakers on a deen show, including struggles with religion and their desire to explore new areas of their life. They also emphasize the importance of communication with spirits and spiritual, as it can be used to manipulate and make things happen the way they want them to. The church's journey and the afterlife of Christian, as well as past experiences with the church, are highlighted. The speakers stress the importance of not discussing certain things in the church during the church's "shipper of the Holy Spirit" and the importance of worshiping one God and not associate partners with God. They also emphasize the need to be prepared to take action and address one's beliefs beforehand, as well as to be prepared to take action and address one's beliefs after events.
AI: Transcript ©
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What is called I was actually what was called an endowed Mormons. I've actually went through the temple ordinances at the, at the Mormon temples, when you mentioned there are certain things that are not to be talked about, what are some of those things that and why are they not to be talked about memorized by millions, it's a living miracle. You're looking at one of the oldest fragments of the Koran ever discovered. It's written on parchment, most likely made from sheep or goat skin, and it's been dated by experts as being more than 1300 years old. So it's more along the lines of the you don't really discuss everything that happens in the temple, African Americans were not permitted

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to do the temple endowment at all because that was considered the mark of the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon, you can't take it with you when you go or you can't take this with you when you go and you can't take this with you when you go brothers and sisters we're all going to depart from this life and all of our material possessions to our money will stay behind but your reoccurring investment is at the center will continue to grow even when you leave this light so go ahead and make that reoccurring investment in a masjid and mega data center that will benefit you in this life. And in the next click the link below donate right now may God Almighty Allah reward all of

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this Milan hamdulillah Salam aleikum greetings of peace. Welcome to the deen Show. I'm your host How you guys doing? Back again for another exciting episode another exciting guest. And my next guest grew up in Maryland was raised a Methodist he attended Catholic school at a young age. Once he graduated high school, he started to explore many other religions for a number of years. He even studied Neo paganism. He went on to look into Buddhism, Catholicism, and many other religions and eventually in 2016, he joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints the Mormon church LDS and he's here with us get this he's also a rodeo writer and bull rider, amongst other things, so

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he's got also a Harley. Harley fan likes Harley bikes. We got a lot to talk about with our next guest Jay here on the show.

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we have Ron God His name?

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And his final messengers, Muhammad peace be upon him. This is our religion, Islam.

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This is the dijo

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I was ready to talk about this I would only talk about explaining how much respect I have for the faith of Islam Show. Welcome to the deen show. The Deen show

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Salaam Alaikum. Salaam aleikum Wa alaykum wa salam how are you doing? Jay? I'm fine. How are you? Did I hit that right? Is that the right term rodeo writer, rodeo cowboy, whatever you want to call me crazy, crazy person that likes to get on the back of animals that want to trample you to death you know? So that works.

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So you ride horses and

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bull, I rode bulls, I rode bulls up until probably six or seven years ago and then I ended up with an injury so I had to retire. And I also did steer wrestling which is where you ride horses quarter horses and jump off and catch about 700 pound steers and flip them so

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you flipped What do you flip again? Yeah, grab them by the horns and flip them over. That's how you get points.

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Oh yeah. Wow. That was how long were you doing that for? Probably about 25 years

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25 years? It was very it was it was it feels like now I mean what was usually when you jump on

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what's the difference here you have you see the rodeos when they're riding the horses that are * the horses What is it these that are not broken in and then you jump on them. Those are those are bras so those there's either sad or * depending on on how they're riding so so you would do that? I never did Bronx I wasn't a big Bronx fan they they kind of beat you around a little bit so I stuck with bulls and steers the bulls and steers okay what's a steer steer is what you would see is a smaller cow with like long horns almost they're not as big as like a long like a Texas Longhorn but they're anywhere between five to 700 pounds. So they're they're relatively

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there are a lot of fatalities in this are a it's a very, it's a very dangerous sport bull riding is very, very dangerous.

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I've had 18 concussions from that. And I have 18. Yeah, I have broken pretty much every bone from head to toe at least once. So

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what drives people to head towards all of this? Is it just the excitement of it the thrill? It's adrenaline, the adrenaline rush.

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Drug? Yeah, it's insane. Adrenaline Rush.

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Mad. Alright, so moving along. So let's start off with the beginning of your journey. Okay, you, you went to a, you're raised Methodist. And you talk about from there moving on, and exploring many other religions and even Neo paganism. So let's start from your early years, okay.

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How household was I will say, like, my dad's side of the families almost almost atheist, they don't really have a very strong belief system they never did. My mom's is much more casual. So the church that she had went to was a Methodist Church. So that's pretty much what she raised. My son, my sister and I in as we were growing up, but it was a very,

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I would say, very stereotypical Christian kind of upbringing for the simple fact that we went to church on Sunday, and then we didn't really do much with it for the rest of the week. So, you know, Monday through Saturday, there wasn't a whole lot of emphasis on religion, and then Sunday, we would get up, we would go to church, we would go to Sunday school, we would do picnics, you know, just social things like that there wasn't a very strong, you know, background with that, I've always been a little bit more spiritual than the rest of my family. You know, we're just trying to, you know, figure out what's going on. And, you know, in the greater scheme of things, I guess. So when I was

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in, I think, third or fourth grade, my parents made the decision to send me to Catholic school, because they knew that I could get a better religion, there are a better education at the Catholic school than I could public school. So started going there. And one of the caveats of go into Catholic school is you're exposed to Catholicism pretty much 24/7 The whole time that you're there, you know, there was a lot of symbolism in it. The school that I went to was, was run by nuns, and those nuns were not fans of the changes that the church had made in the 60s. So they still did the maths in high Latin, which is something that she don't really see too much. There has been a sort of

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a revival that in the last couple of years, but at the time, it was pretty controversial. So it was swinging incense and you know processions and everything, and coming from a Methodist Church, where basically everybody just kind of went in and sat down, it was pretty mystifying to be able to see all of this and, you know, a lot of symbolism and statues and emphasis on those types of things. So it was a very just kind of a very different, you know, experience to go through that. And it sort of opened my eyes up that there's more things than just in the box that I was, you know, had painted myself into an a grown up. And so it just kind of made me want to explore other things. I'm like, if

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there's this branch right across the town, you know, right across the other side of town from where I grew up at what else is there? You know, so once I got older, and was able to go a little bit more on my own, then, you know, I started to look at other things.

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For the layman out there who never heard this term, I mean, we understand Christianity, you are a Christian, but then can you break it down? Like what does it mean, when you're a Methodist as opposed to evangelical Baptists? Is this a sect of Christianity II and what were some of the, what were some of the core beliefs of a Methodist? So um, the the biggest, the biggest division within within Christianity, for those that, you know, aren't aware is Catholicism versus Protestant. So the Catholic Church and the Protestant church, there's the Catholic Church, and then there's everybody else that's not the Catholic Church that is considered Protestant. Methodism is a branch of that

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that actually came out from the Church of England. And the reason that they were called Methodists is because they were very methodical in the way that they picked the Bible apart. And it was meant to originally bring in better Bible study, but they ended up branching off so far from the Church of England and they kind of did their own came up with their own denomination.

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I see but the core teachings of Jesus being God's Son of God Trinity died for your sins. That's all the same. That's all the same. Yes. That's all the same. So what led you now from going from a parent your upbringing Methodist and you go to a Catholic school being

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I suppose to this to Neo paganism, what's Neo paganism for people have never heard this term. Well, um, you know, in modern terms, you hear terms such as, like Wiccan or druids, things like that. So it's supposed to be pre Christian practices, based on, you know, historical, you know, like the original religions of the Vikings, the original religions of the Celts before Christianity came in there. So it's a lot of emphasis on nature, a lot of emphasis, emphasis on divination, to be able to not only see the past, but also to predict the future. Certain denominations within Neo paganism also have a lot of focus on communicating with those that have passed over. So there's a lot of

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communication with spirits and, and things like that, it's also would also be considered like a form of animism, where they believe that there's a spirit in everything, whether it be a plant a stone, animals, and things like that. And you can tap into that energy and not only communicate with it, but you can use your own personal energy to manipulate and, you know, make things happen the way that you want them to, or if somebody has done something bad to you, you can use that energy to kind of send that back almost like a type of karma.

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Is that Is there a lot of I've heard when interviewing different guests who are involved in like, a lot of these things, you have a lot of

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dealing with the spirit on the spirit world, where you have what we'd call the jinn.

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Was there was there any play? Was there any play with that and your experience, like magic and some of these other practices? Yeah, there was a lot of a lot of emphasis on that depending on again, even within you Okay, paganism, there's a lot of what would be considered denomination. So a lot of it depends on the culture that the that the person studying from so somebody is looking at ancient Greek, where you would have like the ancient Greek deities that are written about a lot, their emphasis would be on that line. So you know, a lot of traditional things that will come out of that, again, like the Celts, people that are from Britain, Ireland, Scotland, those places Germanic, which

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would be like Viking, Germany, areas like that, where there's a lot of like local folklore, in stories regarding like those alleged deities and things like that. That's where you would kind of tap into, if that makes sense.

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Obviously, there was something missing because you went from one religion now towards this Neo paganism and Catholicism, you were exploring Buddhism and other religions. What was it that was missing? What was it that kept you just moving along? Well, one of the problems that I've had with so called organized religion, at least here in the US, you know, with, you know,

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especially branches of Christianity is the Trinity makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Even if you look at it from different, you know, different viewpoints of different religions, it just doesn't make any sense. Because they all emphasize the fact that they're supposed to be one God, but then at the same time, there are assigning attributes to people and other in other things. And to me, that never made any sense. So there was always like, a gap, you know, where I would be like, Okay, I can kind of feel like a connection to some of this. But then it would just start to kind of rub me the wrong way. And I'm like, I this just doesn't feel right. So I would kind of move on to try and

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figure out, you know, what, what I was missing where the gap was, in that in, that's kind of how I kept exploring, I kind of kind of saw myself as, as a seeker, you know, where I would go out, and I would kind of, I always refer to myself, you know, prior to coming into Islam, that I always felt like my spirituality was kind of like a patchwork quilt, where I would kind of take bits and pieces of the truth from one area and kind of like, put that into my own personal quilt that I was going to, you know, carry along with me, so that I would find pieces of the truth that were within these different religions and spiritual practices and just kind of focus on the good part of that and what

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made it connect up with me versus the parts that I didn't necessarily agree with.

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Tell me now you went on to continue exploring, and then you explored so much that you went into the LDS, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That is correct.

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Yeah. So how did you end up now in this particular church, which is actually for many Christian This is an how would they consider how would they look at the the normative the Protestants and the Catholics? Do they not even consider them Christians? They depending on who you talk to, the majority of mainstream Christians do not consider the LDS church to be actual Christian.

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Unity, the LDS church will tell you that they have the name of Jesus Christ in their church. So obviously, they have to be Christian. So it's it kind of comes down to splitting hairs on that.

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The LDS church journey was very interesting, because just prior to I would say, probably about two, two years prior to,

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to me joining that church, I had one sibling, my sister had passed away in 2013. So I had really started to search a lot for, you know, trying to figure out what happened when we passed on, because nobody really seemed to be able to give me the answer as to what that was. So I really started to explore, you know, what happens when we when we die? What happens on the other side, because I had that background with, especially with the Neo paganism, and also with the Catholicism where they can, you know, believe a lot with communicating with people that have passed on, on your behalf. And I really just wanted to know, you know, what happened. So ironically, at the time, I was living in

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the eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, because I was working in the Washington DC area. And it's not that much of a commute, especially when you compare housing prices to living in Northern Virginia, versus driving an hour in from the Panhandle. So it was it was worth the worth the drive. When one evening, I had two LDS missionaries knock on my door. And to be very honest, I was in the middle of playing a game on Playstation, they annoyed me because they knocked on my door. It was January, it was cold, the only reason I opened it up is because I felt bad for them because it was cold. So that was kind of rude when I opened the door up and said, you know, hey, don't really want

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to hear anything that you want to say. But if you want to send a warm up for a couple of minutes, I'll you know, give you the heat. So they came in, they talked to me for a few minutes. And then, you know, they said, Can we come back? And I said, you know, yeah, sure, whatever. So they came back a couple times. And we started to talk about kind of the afterlife. And they started to show me the teachings that the church had on the afterlife. And again, with coming with a background that has explored a bunch of different, you know, areas when they're saying, Oh, well, in the spirit world, when you pass on, people are still learning and they're teaching and things like that, that clicked

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for me. So I said, alright, you know, let's let's talk some more. So over the course of a couple of months, we continued to speak. And eventually I said, you know, I'm ready to go ahead and join this church. Now their teachings are very different from mainstream Christianity, even when it comes down to the concept of what they call the Godhead, and not a Trinity not believe in the Trinity. So

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I want to dig a little bit deeper into the Mormon teachings because many people, they'll try to go ahead and discredit Islam, the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon I don't know if you had this experience. They'll say, ignorantly that Islam is just a problem. Muhammad is someone like Joseph Smith, or Islam is same thing to the Christian faith as the Mormon religion. It's the same thing. But when you really study Islam, I mean, you see the, the, the very tenant you know, it's of pure monotheism and then just as a cursory just a very shallow look into Mormonism you can see just it's just Szybko we call it the association of partners of God you can see all over it you know,

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human beings being God and the core teachings of Islam which go against this very clearly. And so let's go into their the start of it, you study this, you were you were very know the history very well. So let's talk. Let's talk about this, you know, from the beginning of some of my research, what's what I remember is, and you could take it from there, where if you go back, and do they discuss these, these with

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or just you have to get to a certain level or where the some of the conversations you were having when when they were visiting you were there were certain planets ruled by gods who are once humans and then Elohim, which we would say Allah had billions of spirits or millions of spiritual sons, two of them, which were Jesus and Lucifer, and then they had the they had the council meeting and then from there, there was a rift there one wanted one thing the other one wanted the other. Does this sound familiar? Yes. Very much. So. Yeah. Can you can you go ahead and take it from there and kind of explain, explain this from someone who is actually a you are Mormon for many years, is that

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correct? Yes. And what is called I was actually what was called an endowed Mormons. I've actually went through the temple ordinances at the at the Mormon temple so I'm familiar with these teachings.

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Well, you you are a Say that again for that turns, no one's endowed, it's when you go through the tempting to get an endowment, and down so many don't even don't even reach that level, you have to have a certain level of purity. And there's certain rules that you have to follow. So if you're not married, you have to be 100%. celibate. You do have to, you have to pay 10%, tithing into the church out of everything that you get, you have to make agreements with the church, that you will devote all of your time and energy into helping other members of the church and building the church on earth. And you have to abstain from coffee, alcohol,

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use the what they call what is called The Word of Wisdom, which is, which is the dietary restrictions, you know, alcohol, coffee, tea, any kind of drugs, those things, and you have to go for an interview every two years with the Bishop of your area in order to get what's called a temple recommend, and that allows you to enter into any of the temples of the LDS church in order to perform an endowment ceremony for yourself, and then once you've done it for yourself, you go through on behalf of your deceased ancestors, because the belief is that if they could not do the endowment themselves, you can do it on their behalf as a proxy. And in the spirit world, they have

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the choice to either accept the endowment or to reject it.

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And this is an My next question is, and this is not to on any of these questions to mock anybody from the Mormon religion, or anything, this is just kind of to get an idea of the beliefs and if people can go and judge for themselves is part of this endowment is is is, is part of this. Also you have a certain garment, would they could you say underwear or something that you had to wear? Like, every day or every other day? How did that work? It's called a temple garment. And it's actually at 2pm. And yes, it is.

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Okay, so it's, it's a two, okay, it's two pieces. And it's, it's from the men at least, it's pretty modern. The bottom piece looks like very long, boxer briefs, they're, you know, they clean, they're clean to clean to your legs, and everything like traditional boxer briefs, wood underneath of your clothing, they come just above the knee. And then there is a the the, the upper part that looks like a T shirt, and it has shorter sleeves that stop about right here so that you can wear it under regular clothing. And then depending on the cut, if you have it where it kind of comes down like this. So it fits underneath the as an endowed member of the church, you are supposed to wear it all

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day, every single day unless you are exercising, swimming and taking a shower or having intimate relations with your spouse.

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What's the significance of this is supposed to signify the clothing that that God placed on Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden once they, once they partake of the tree of good and life and they were good and evil. And they were made aware of good and evil in the world and cast out from the garden. At which point in time they were, you know, notice they knew that they were naked. And that was if you read in Genesis where it says that they were clothed in a garment, that's what is supposed to symbolize is this for women also women it is both it is for women and men. Okay, so now you're somebody who went through the whole process and these teachings now that we're going to get into

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some of the, the history is is is something that from early beginnings of joining the Mormon church that you you get to know these teachings in is one of the goals is always to get yourself ready for the temple to go into the temple. So that's that's like one of the big things that they really, that they really push whenever you join in. Because you do have to be a member in good standing for one year when you join the church before you can even go into the temple

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to do the endowment. So if you join the church and leave two or three months later, you still can't go into the temple you have to be you have to be a member in good standing. And then there are certain things in the temple that aren't to be discussed out of the temple, just the way that some of the ceremonies and things that are done inside.

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Let's touch upon that before we go into the beginning of the history like when you mentioned there are certain things that are not to be talked about what are some of those things that and why are they not to be taught to by contrast that with Islam because Islam is an open book, everything is out there forever. There's nothing hidden. Everything is out there for the whole world to see. So it just

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It's very interesting, why certain things are not to be talked about

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the stance from the churches that it's sacred and not secret. And it's to keep I believe the air of a mystery, I think whenever you go through the temple, so it's more along the lines of the you don't really discuss everything that happens in the temple, I will tell you that. It's nothing that extraordinary. It's it's very mundane for the most part, but they they just asked that you don't discuss, you know, like the words from the ceremony, and things like that. It's basically, whenever you go through the endowment ceremony, it's almost like what would be considered a psycho pump, where it's more of, it's a, it's a storytelling to kind of give you knowledge, as you go through, I

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will say, it's the same story, every time that you go through, it is a movie that's played up on a screen. And then there are certain times during the, during that ceremony where they will ask you to stand up or you know, to affirm and, you know, to, to, to agree to keep those things, either secret, or if it's to the point where they're asking you to, like I said, you know, affirm that you will

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dedicate your time and energy to building the church up and you know, to giving your talents to the church, and they asked you to affirm that either for yourself or on behalf of your ancestors, you're there. So I mean, there's really, it's really not that extraordinary. It's just I think that they keep it like that, so that whenever you go through, you actually have something to look forward to. I mean, it's, there's, it's been published numerous times, there's a bunch of YouTube videos on it, and a bunch of websites that go through the whole endowment ceremony. So I mean, there's really, there's really not that much to it, where it's like that, but they just asked that you guys toss it

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outside of the temple. So I got Okay, tell me let's go to the early beginnings of Mormonism. Can we talk about this? Is it true that this is one of the fundamental teachings that there were planets at these planets were ruled by gods and gods who are once human.

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There's a doctrine of exultation which is what they preach and in order to the temple is key to that, because in order to have exaltation, you have to not only be endowed but you have to be what is called a temple ceiling, the wedding ceremony, the sun within the temple. So the belief is that when a person has been through those,

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when they have the ability, granted by Elohim, whenever they pass on to be exalted into the form of a god, and they are given rulership over a planet, and then from there, they would have their own what they would the church called spirit children. And basically, it puts themselves up as a godhead, if that, you know, does that does that.

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You know, so the, like, the whole, the whole thought on that is, and one of the things that's really different with the Mormon church versus, you know, versus any other branches. They believe that the God mentioned in the Old Testament of the of the Hebrew Bible, is actually Jesus Christ before he was given a physical body. So anything that's, that's anything that is referred to as YAHWAH, in that, in that in the Bible, in there, you know, when it's creation of the earth and everything like that, that is not what we would call a law. That is actually Jesus Christ, before he had a physical body. And he was doing that on behalf of God, the Father, as they call them.

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Is, is the God of the Old Testament that they claim is Jesus Christ, before he came down to earth was he just one of the gods of many other other gods where he was other other gods?

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For, from what I've been able to gather from it as it is, it's a very confusing doctrine, but

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their focus, their focus is mainly on Earth. So from that standpoint, what the deity that they would call, you know, Heavenly Father. That is what most people understand to be the concept of God. And then, you know, so he directed Jesus Christ in spirit form to create the earth. And you know, to do all of those things that we most of us attribute to God and the Old Testament of the Bible whenever you read that, and then from there, everything that he did was directed out

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from Heavenly Father basically telling him so it'd be like me telling a person that

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reports into me go do this, and then going and doing it.

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Now, somebody can clearly that when they look into Islam and say, Look, do they believe in that God? Is one and alone worthy of worship? Yes. Do they believe that God Almighty, Allah can have children? No, they don't. So these are clear teachings, like if someone wants to discuss them, you know, they are very lucid on this. So we're kind of doing the same thing. So people can kind of really grasp and understand some of the core teachings behind it so they can be more informed and make a contrast between this and Islam. Tell me Tell me this. What about the story that you have of is it true that God in what they call Elohim?

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Is this how they would classify the Father? Elohim? At all? Yeah, we would say Allah, this is this is Allah, that he had, they would, they would say the Mormons that he had to they had many sons with two of which were Jesus and Lucifer. Yes. So can you go into this is very, very interesting one. Yeah. So the,

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the spirit children concept is there's also a concept of heavenly mother, who is supposed to be the companion of Elohim. But she's not discussed very much within the church, it's a very a couple of obscure teachings that you can find back and they acknowledge that she's there, but you don't really hear a whole lot more in her. But the Jesus Christ is supposed to be the firstborn of Elohim. So since he was the first and the one of his siblings as Lucifer, so whenever they was called The Great Council was held, and that's where the plan of salvation was laid out, where Elohim said, This is what I want to do, you know, I want to I want to have a plan of salvation for, you know, for the,

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for the earth, for the people that live on Earth, so that whenever that they can come back, and you know, be one with with me and heaven. So, the two plans that were presented one was Jesus Christ, where everyone would have freewill, and they could, you know, choose whether or not to, you know, to worship, and to obey the commandments of Heavenly Father Elohim. And that, that would all be, you know, up to that person, whether or not they wanted to do that all of the spirit children would be given the opportunity to leave the spirit realm and to be given a physical body. And they would, at that point in time, cross the veil, and the veil would make them forget everything that that they

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had known. So it would be up to them to kind of find their way back. And they would do that on their own free will. That was one plan that was presented. The second plan that was presented from Lucifer was that he would force everybody to follow the commandments, and he wanted the glory. He wanted the acknowledgement and the glory of that for himself. And for that, they said, We're not going with that plan. And because this is what you want, and it's contrary to everything else, we're going to cast you out. So that's how he ended up being cast out from heaven. And that's when they went with the plan of salvation, as presented by Jesus Christ.

00:33:16 --> 00:33:45

Is this where you now had Lucifer who late later, he ended up taking, like 1/3 of the people, their spirit children, and had them he created a protest a rebellion, he rebelled. And then you had those who followed him, they end up becoming demons, and their punishment, and their punishment is that they cannot and will not have a physical body. So they can only be spirit.

00:33:46 --> 00:34:28

And then those who just kind of remain neutral, they ended up getting punished with darker skin. Yes, that's what was that what was originally taught, according to the Book of Mormon, okay, originally taught, so that was changed later, that was changed in the 70s, they kind of started to push away from that, originally with the temple endowment, people that had darker skin, particularly African Americans, were not permitted to do the temple endowment at all, because that was considered the mark of the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon. So as that was a punishment, that was a punishment. They weren't allowed to do that. In the 1970s I believe it was the leader of the church. The

00:34:28 --> 00:34:31

president of the church is also called the Prophet of the church

00:34:32 --> 00:34:44

received what was what he called a revelation that they were supposed to change that and that change was made to allow all men and women regardless of skin color to

00:34:45 --> 00:34:51

to be able to do the endowment and the church started to really push away from talking about the curse of dark skin at that point.

00:34:52 --> 00:35:00

Okay, so it was known as there was a curse of dark skin. Is it clear? I mean, when you can call this is clear racism. No, because

00:35:00 --> 00:35:25

You weren't allowed? Yeah. I mean, you when you look at it, when you look at it from our standpoint, when you're going, you know, yes. You're basing this on skin, skin tone and things like that. Yes. And I mean, it's it's blatant racism, regardless of how you want to paint that or how positive you want to spin it or where you're saying that it's coming from, I just can't believe that, that Creator of the universe is like, well, you all can come in, but not you because your skin is too dark. It just doesn't make any sense.

00:35:26 --> 00:35:31

Yeah, and I think that was until 1970 78. not mistaken. I think he was a

00:35:32 --> 00:36:11

priesthood was not allowed for African American Black. People have darker skin. Is that correct? Yes. Wow. All right. So now you have this rift and you have this rebellion, and then the demons and the devil Lucifer che dawn. So this story goes on. And then now let's move along to what happens they come down to earth. And what happens from there you have some kind of battle that goes on. And then from there, you got Joseph Smith Smith, who finds the golden tablets here. We discuss this a little bit. Yeah, so the the story with with Joseph Smith is pretty interesting, because there was

00:36:13 --> 00:36:20

it was in New York State, I believe is where it happened out. It was a name 1818 something or other. He was pre Civil War. So.

00:36:21 --> 00:36:58

So there had been a lot of revivals and things up in that area. So he was trying to figure out what church to join. And what he had what was called the First Division, he went into a grove of trees in New York, got down on his knees and prayed because he read a passage out of I believe it's mark, in the Bible, where it says any any of you that lack knowledge, you know, ask and, you know, I'm very much paraphrasing that because I'm not a biblical scholar, and I do not have all of those verses memorized. So please do not quote me on that. So. But so basically, what he did was he went in, he claimed at the time, it was the first time he'd ever really prayed, he got down on his knees, and he

00:36:58 --> 00:37:43

prayed. And he was, you know, seized by a vision. So he saw two person is personages come out of the light. And they were identical. In shape and form, they were physical men, they were not spirits, they were physical men, flesh and blood. And the one pointed to the other and said, This is My beloved Son, here, him and that person identified himself as Jesus Christ. So at that point in time, they said, None of the church is true. None of these churches are true, they're not my true Church on earth. And, you know, basically, we will make it known to you what church you're supposed to join. And you know, that division pretty much ended at that point, again, it's very high level, I'm

00:37:43 --> 00:37:51

paraphrasing, I have whole volumes of books that's dedicated to just the first division, you know, so how that worked.

00:37:53 --> 00:38:29

So he was then visited what he called an angelic being, who identified himself as more oni who was supposed to be a prophet from the New World, which would have been, you know, somewhere in the in the, in the continent of the New World, sort of the old world, and said that you know, that there were plates buried and that he was, you know, he would show them to him, and you know, he needed to be patient. So I believe it was two or three years went by when he was finally, you know, given the location of the plates, and were shown how to actually translate them. And the translation of those plates came out from in turned into what is called the Book of Mormon. And what that is, is it's

00:38:29 --> 00:38:42

supposed to be a testament of Jesus Christ as he visited the Americas after his resurrection. It talks about, it talks about the people that left from Jerusalem.

00:38:43 --> 00:39:23

prior to it being destroyed, there were families that came over to escape. And they were in the new world, they lived there for a while, they branched off into two, two branches. And again, you had one that was darker skinned than the other. And in the Book of Mormon is basically a bunch of stories about how, when you may have faith in God, He guides them whenever they don't have faith in Jesus Christ or in God. And the emphasis is on Jesus Christ and is not Oh, God, the emphasis is on faith in Christ. Then they, you know, they start to lose Bibles. So it's very cyclical. So it's, it's a lot of up and down. So it's like, you know, they're good, they're bad, they're good, they're

00:39:23 --> 00:39:59

bad, they're good, they're bad. And then it gets to kind of the culmination is whenever Jesus Christ actually visits those people after his resurrection comes down as a resurrected being teaches them and everything. Eventually, the bloodlines die out. Marone is supposed to be the last of them. And he was the one that wrote the last on the plates and then went and buried them and then was made an exalted angelic being that would guide Joseph Smith, so that he could find the plates and reestablish the primitive and original church back on the earth, which is what the LDS church considers itself to be.

00:40:01 --> 00:40:45

When you look at when you contrast Prophet Mohammed, peace and blessings be upon him when in his community, before revelation came from the Archangel Gabriel, who was also known in the Bible, who was somebody who was probably Muhammad peace and must be upon him, who is known as Allah mean, the trustworthy, he was known he couldn't read or write, he had an impeccable, pristine character amongst his community. And you couldn't really raise any kind of complaints about his background. But now when you contrast that with Joseph Smith, how do Mormons deal with the fact that he is a true he was a felons, many known him as a con artist? Amongst other things, how do they deal with

00:40:45 --> 00:41:25

that? A lot of it, a lot of it seems they it's kind of there's, you don't talk a lot about the history of Joseph Smith, it's very, it's very much, you know, with the way that the church presents, it is, it's very much like I just said, you know, what the story there's, there's some official church publications out on the Joseph Smith papers, Joseph Smith history, which are volumes and volumes and volumes. But there's not a whole lot of discussion on that a lot of it's painted off, as you know, people being jealous people trying to steal the golden plates from him, you know, he did this, this and this. And that's why, you know, like, he hid the plates, he wouldn't let anybody else

00:41:25 --> 00:41:59

touch the plates, because he was told that they couldn't, you know, people that saw the plates then would say, they didn't see the plates, people that, you know, were in the church, and with him left because of disagreements. And, you know, there are some that never changed their testimony, they said, you know, they did see the golden plates, and you know, that they would always say that they saw that they had seen the golden plates, but he had a reputation as being what was called a treasure seeker. And, you know, he would use a stone for divination, to show where he could find treasures. And he had been sued a couple times in court because of that, you know, for not being

00:41:59 --> 00:42:42

able to produce, you know, so he was he was considered a lot of things like that, you know, he took over a town destroyed the printing press, they tried to get him for destruction of, you know, freedom of speech, you know, so there, there was a lot I mean, there was even when the new Mormons eventually kept moving west, so they left from New York, they headed towards Ohio, they went from Ohio, they were kind of cast out from there. After they built their first Temple in Kirkland, Ohio, and people kind of rebelled, started chasing them out, you know, took over the temple, cast them all out, they went from there to Illinois, they went to Missouri and they were so hated in Missouri,

00:42:42 --> 00:43:23

that the governor there actually put out an order to kill them. Either they either had to leave the state or they were going to be executed. So um, you know, it was in a lot of it came down to people just did not trust Joseph Smith. And, you know, it's just, it's really strange that, you know, especially when you look at the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. We don't have any of those stories. Even his enemies that didn't like him, couldn't really say anything about about him. You know, so that I mean, they may not have agreed with him, but they still had to say we don't agree with him. But the man's impeccable, more moral character, you know, we can't find any flaw with him,

00:43:23 --> 00:43:31

except we don't like him. And, you know, we don't want to believe what he's telling us, which is a big contrast to the founder of the LDS church.

00:43:33 --> 00:44:09

Yeah, reminds me of a story also authentic story of Prophet Muhammad before his prophethood when the pagans were, they were remodeling, the Kaaba, which is the first house of worship built by Abraham later, they started to go ahead and do the idol worship and later was restored to the pure models use a problem Muhammad before revelation, they were reconstructing it. And then I don't know if you know this story, that they were trying to now put the Blackstone in place in which stripe is going to go ahead and have the honor to do it. So they are at the verge of coming to Oregon. And they said, Okay, the next person that comes through this door, we're gonna go ahead and let him decide.

00:44:10 --> 00:44:51

So it wasn't some Tom dick and Larry, Prophet Muhammad came to, to the area now he came through, and they said, Yes, this is El Amin. This is a trustworthy, and they were so happy that it was him. And they left it now to him to make the decision. Are you familiar? Are you familiar with this? Yeah, I've heard I've heard Yeah, pieces of it. Yeah. This is just an example now of who he was. So going back on. This stuff that you're talking about this is documented this whole thing of these these things that happen with the felonies and other things with regarding Joseph Smith and anybody, any Christian or anybody who tries to make this example to try to equate Prophet Muhammad or Islam with

00:44:51 --> 00:45:00

this, I mean, just by looking at some of the core teachings of Mormonism. This would discredit any of these false false notions that people

00:45:00 --> 00:45:43

have continuing on, tell me these, these books. So these books, these golden tablets, this is like the ye we'd say this is the revelation that's coming. For for Mormon. This is what the Book of Mormon is based off. Is that correct? Yeah, the whole Book of Mormon is translated out of those plates. Now we don't have archaeologists, did they ever find these plates, the plates according to church history, once the translation was complete, Joseph Smith was ordered to give them back to the angel Morrowind I, who then took them, so they've never been seen since. Another contrast is we have the Koran. So we have it in its original memorized by millions is a living miracle. You have

00:45:43 --> 00:46:25

different places in the world. Like for instance, you have the Birmingham, you're looking at one of the oldest fragments of the Koran ever discovered. It's written on parchment, most likely made from sheep or goat skin, and it's been dated by experts as being more than 1300 years old. And that makes it among the earliest known fragments of the Koran, anywhere in the world. And it's here, and the University of Birmingham person who actually wrote it may well have known the Prophet Muhammad, he would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach, he may have known him personally. And that really is quite a thought to conjure with this is an exceptionally rare and

00:46:25 --> 00:47:06

valuable discovery. And the University says it will be put on public display. It has no intention of letting these pages from well history leave Birmingham on now. This is where it is also they found that it has been preserved as it was revealed at that time, you can go ahead and examine it. So you can't do the same here with these golden tablets obviously, no and even if you look at the original because I have a replica of the of the one of the original copies of the Book of Mormon as it was first published, I have a replica copy of that and if you compare it with the monitor and there's been a lot of changes to it, even in the way the book is structured the the words the you know,

00:47:06 --> 00:47:30

there's been a lot of change just like we see with you know, with New and Old Testament what the Bible is there's been a lot of alterations and changes done to it. So it's not in its original form, even the even the original published form that was I think 1830 I believe of pulling that mountain that number off of my head, I believe it was around 1830 That it was done. You know that copy isn't the same as what we see now.

00:47:31 --> 00:48:11

Okay, so anything original of any more Mormon book now also, it's obvious this has been changed. This has been something that's been tampered with, and the in this Book of Mormon, so what's the main message that you want? Obviously, you've read, you've read the entire book being a woman, what do you what did it take? What's the takeaway? What like when you read the Quran, it's clear you have the clear definition of God Almighty is presenting himself he says, I've revealed this Quran I will protect it. I'm your creator. It's really straightforward. You can't get it wrong, that God is one and alone worthy of worship. It goes into the much of the stories of the prophets from the past and

00:48:11 --> 00:48:55

their message of pure monotheism to toe heed the purpose of life, Paradise hellfire, the good moral code, or how we need to live by. There's no strange incantation superstitions. It's a book of guidance. What do you go away with when you read the book of Mormons, the Book of Mormon focuses mainly on having faith in Jesus Christ, there is very little talk of, of any any being other than Jesus Christ. In the book, there's a lot of cross referencing, if you look in the book, at the bottom, there's a lot of biblical cross referencing most of the book is actually, as the book sits, the great piece of the book is indexes that go back and forth. It says, Oh, well, under this topic,

00:48:55 --> 00:49:35

if you read it here, it's also in the Bible under here, here and here. So that seems that as you go through it and read it, there's a lot of justification that's found in the Book of Mormon, then it's like, well, you know, this is true, because it's also here in the Bible. So there's a lot of cross referencing back and forth. Most people, especially those that grew up in the church of Jesus, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have very, very high scriptural knowledge, and they can cross reference back and forth and quote Scripture like crazy. It's one of the things whenever I first came into the church that I was very envious of, was the fact that you know, you could talk to somebody and they

00:49:35 --> 00:49:59

would, they would just build out scripture and tell you exactly where it was at. But the clear emphasis, even though the Bible is used as always, on the Book of Mormon, so it's always you know, well, in this chapter of the Book of Mormon, there's this and by the way, you can also find it here in the Bible. So it's always the Book of Mormon first, and then everything else is kind of second to it. But there's nothing in there that really teaches you how to worship, you know, or anything like that.

00:50:00 --> 00:50:06

As always, you know, follow the commandments, the 10 commandments as they're written. And then there's a whole other section of

00:50:07 --> 00:50:25

what's called doctrine. There, they're called the, I'm trying to remember the term forks, it's been a while since I've, since I paid attention is like the select, I won't say it's a selected works, but it's, it's something along those lines where there's the Book of Mormon, there is

00:50:26 --> 00:51:05

what's called the Pearl of Great Price, which is another revealed, you know, kind of story and things like that, that goes back to Abraham and Moses, that you know, was supposed to be translated out of papyrus. And then there's um, Doctrine and Covenants, which is all of the other revealed stuff, which is where a lot of the foundations from the church come from, you know, so where the Word of Wisdom which is, again, like I said, the dietary restrictions and things like that, that's found in Doctrine and Covenants and Doctrine and Covenants can be added on to, it doesn't happen that often. But if they, you know, declare that something is going to be putting in it's considered

00:51:05 --> 00:51:07

revealed scripture at that point.

00:51:08 --> 00:51:11

So the Bible, the Book of Mormon,

00:51:12 --> 00:51:56

it is, it's above the Bible. So the Book of Mormon supersedes the Bible. I won't say that it supersedes it as much as it's supposed to be a complimentary volume to it. So where as whereas the Bible is geared more towards the Jewish people, and those that you know, were Jewish, or Gentile, and then converted over to Christianity, the Book of Mormon is supposed to be a complimentary testimony of Jesus Christ as he revealed himself in the Americas. So it's just that there's a lot more emphasis on the Book of Mormon, because it's considered by the church and by the followers of the church to be the, quote, most correct book on Earth. That is the quote, it is. The constant

00:51:56 --> 00:52:28

theme in the Quran is to worship one God to worship the Creator, not the creation, to not associate partners with God, that God is one and alone worthy of worship, over and over and how previous nations were destroyed, for taking creation as a god next to God or worshipping the creation, how they were destroyed over and over, and you can't walk away without experiencing the pure monotheism. When you what I'm getting at is when you read the Book of Mormon, it's obviously encouraging you to worship Jesus. Exactly.

00:52:29 --> 00:52:56

That's even even the Doctrine and Covenants that are supposed, you know, they're supposed to be revelation that's been given to the Prophets of the church, are all coming from Jesus Christ, it's not coming from Elohim it's not coming from, you know, God, a law or you know, however you want to put that into terms within that church. It's the revelations are coming from Jesus Christ to the Prophet of the church to be disseminated out to the people.

00:52:57 --> 00:53:03

Belief in Trinity, is that a Mormon concept or no? No, there is no belief in the Trinity the Godhead is totally different.

00:53:04 --> 00:53:11

So the Trinity is, you know, again, like I said, kind of a strange concept, you know, it's, it's

00:53:12 --> 00:53:35

three gods of you know, one mind or I still can't wrap my head around. Like I said, years of Catholic school and everything else, it still doesn't make any sense to me. But the concept of Godhead within the Latter Day Saints movement is that God is Elohim is a man. He is an exalted man, he is made of flesh and bone, he is not a spirit.

00:53:36 --> 00:54:07

And Jesus Christ is an exalted being he is flesh and blood, he is not a spirit. And then there is the Holy Spirit, which is the one that continues to you know, talk to people today. That is the Holy Spirit that's out of that, but it's not the Godhead is not the same as the Trinity, because they are seen as persons. Elohim. So Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are seen as physical people just as you and I are. And separate, they're separate.

00:54:08 --> 00:54:24

Wow. Okay, so then you would clearly have to God's just right there. Yes. Because there's an it's clear and Mormon teachings that Elohim Allah, they say, we say Allah, they're saying that he is a man, clearly he is a man being he is a

00:54:26 --> 00:54:41

he is a man and the reason that we see him or they see him or however you want to, it's kind of you know what I'm talking about this it's kind of hard to, to figure out how to how to use the right pronouns whenever I'm going through this, but pronouns seem to be everyone's big thing you know, nowadays, but

00:54:43 --> 00:54:46

that's a whole different that's a whole different talk right there. But

00:54:47 --> 00:54:56

so the reason that the focus here is on Elohim is because Elohim is the Exalted man that oversees us.

00:54:58 --> 00:55:00

So crucifixion What about

00:55:00 --> 00:55:42

crucifixion. Crucifixion is the crucifixion is not emphasized as much as the more in the Mormon church and they believe that it happened they believe you know that he was crucified that Jesus Christ was crucified and was resurrected his spirit was put back into his body as an exalted, resurrected being, where he is a physical person. But the emphasis there more on salvation and freedom from sin would be the prior to the crucifixion in the Garden of Gethsemane. That's where they believe that whenever he was pleading to not have, you know, to not go and be crucified and was down on his knees praying and they said that his, you know, His sweat was like blood. That is where

00:55:42 --> 00:56:00

in the LDS church the belief is that the salvation actually happened, it was not on the cross. That's why you do not see many people from the church, where have any crosses or anything like that there's no crosses on the buildings, there's no emphasis on the cross, the emphasis is on is on Jesus Christ instead.

00:56:01 --> 00:56:44

So the belief in Jesus dying for your sins and just the way to salvation. That's not really a tenant of Mormonism. It's still there. But it's more like where most traditional Christians believe that when Jesus Christ was crucified, nailed to the cross, and was dying, that that's when the salvation and freedom you know, the freedom from our sins, you know, happened, the forgiveness. For the Mormon Church, the focus is more on the Garden of Gethsemane. They believe that when he was praying intently, that that's when he not only was, you know, obtaining that he felt every single sin that was going to happen from anybody that had been alive. Anybody that was currently living, anybody

00:56:44 --> 00:56:54

that was going to live, it was all at one time when he was in the garden. And the crucifixion is talked about more, almost as an afterthought.

00:56:55 --> 00:57:39

Who, at the end, who would you conclude, who had people concluded that wrote, is it it's attributed to Joseph Smith is that he's the author, or is multiple authors writing the Book of Mormon? He wrote it, he didn't, he didn't write it, per se. So what he did was, he would, he would see the plates and the, the, the method that he used to translate the plates was that he would, he had what was called a seer stone. So he had a stone that He would actually put into a hat. And the plates would be sitting beside of him, and there would be a curtain separating him and his scribe, he would stare down into the seer stone, and the seer stone would tell him the words that were being translated

00:57:39 --> 00:57:42

from the plates and the scribe would write it.

00:57:43 --> 00:57:49

That's what's, that's the story behind it. What have others. I mean, what is that something that

00:57:50 --> 00:58:30

because that was never uncovered the stones? They wouldn't back up? They say, but what what have you concluded? Do you ensure investigation, the church is in possession of the seer stone, they have a catalogue, they still have this stuff? There are pictures of it. It's very unassuming. You know, I will say that if you look at the transcripts from the Book of Mormon as it was being translated, a lot of it does seem to be phonetic. So it does seem to be as if, you know, somebody was sitting there saying the words and somebody else was writing them, because you can see corrections to it were like spellings and things like that words, no, not spelled like that.

00:58:31 --> 00:59:08

You know, I can't, I can't draw the conclusion that it's divinely inspired. I believe it definitely comes from man. You know, like I said, I have a replica of the original first edition that's here. And if you compare it to the modern one, that I also have multiple copies of, you know, because in the church, you seem to collect those. Whenever you're in the church, it's like, you collect many copies of the Book of Mormon for some reason, you know, so I mean, I have them and I can compare them and they're different. So I mean, it's definitely been altered and changed. Whereas with the Quran, I can picture Khurana from 200 years ago, pick one up from today, and it says the same thing.

00:59:09 --> 00:59:51

That's divine. That's a divinely inspired book. That's it. That's a book that's divine. When it's not changed, it hasn't changed, I can see the same thing. I can see the same thing that people couldn't see during the Prophet's time, once it was actually written down. So let's get into now your journey towards how did you get your first exposure to Islam? And what was it that finally that you concluded through all of these journeys now that you've taken that this is indeed the truth? I'm not jumping from anything else now? No more I found my home here. This is the divine it's, I don't it's kind of strange, because I wasn't looking for anything else. I was very content you know, the

00:59:51 --> 01:00:00

social aspect of being in the in the Church of Jesus Christ pretty much consumes everything you know, so every single day you have something that's going on with the church you know, people are constantly read

01:00:00 --> 01:00:33

reaching out to you, it basically becomes your entire outlet, you know, people would reach out to me at work, you know, hey, I need help with this, whatever. So I wasn't looking for anything. But right around the same time that I had started to, you know, really look at the church back in 2016. You know, I began, you know, I like to compare religions, I had picked up a book, and I believe it was like Islam for Dummies, and believe it or not, you know, it's just one of those, it was like, Hey, I've never really read this, you know, let me read this a little bit, you know, don't know much about it. You know, here, you know, a lot of what I hear about, especially living in the area that I

01:00:33 --> 01:01:05

did, because, you know, I was, you know, right smack in the middle between Washington, DC and New York City. You know, so, after 911, those events and things like that, you know, obviously, Islam and Muslims, you know, we're not high on anyone's list of, you know, of good talking points, you know, so I was hearing a lot of negative stuff. And I'm, like, you know, what, there's gotta be more to this, you know, than just all this negative stuff. Because why would people want to belong to a religion that just make you know, that's this negative, that's this restrictive, that's this supposed to be terrible? For everybody, I'm like, that's just doesn't make any sense. That just

01:01:05 --> 01:01:30

seems like, it seems like there's just a lot of, you know, masochist, apparently, in the Middle East that this is it, this is what they, this is what they want to do. Because everyone I've ever met from their religion always seems super happy, you know, so it doesn't make any sense. So I picked up a book like that kind of skim through it a little bit, you know, read it a little bit. Every now and then I'll come back and pick it up just for something to read, you know, kind of just get like basic history, and, you know, things like that.

01:01:31 --> 01:02:09

And I would say probably in 2018, I think I'd actually visited one of the local machines a couple times, you know, just to kind of see, you know, how things were done, you know, didn't understand a word of it, because like I said, you know, before I am I'm actually 100% Deaf I use cochlear implants, Arabic is very hard for me to pick up the nuances one. So, you know, his prayers are being done in Arabic and things like that. I'm like, no idea what's going on here, you know, but the feeling feels good, everyone seems to be pretty happy. You know, and I would just kind of, you know, fling back and forth on it. And I was just sitting at work one day, it was probably a Wednesday,

01:02:09 --> 01:02:27

probably a Wednesday, it was kind of a slower day. And I'm like, I'd like to read the cry. You know, no idea where that came from, you know, no idea where it came from. This was probably right around Christmas time of last year, you know, wasn't looking for anything out of the church. And like, I haven't haven't really looked at that for a while, you know, let me do that.

01:02:28 --> 01:03:08

So kind of thought about it a little bit, didn't really think too, too much into it. But then I'm remembered, I'm sitting there. And I'm like, I think that the local mosques, play their Friday prayers on YouTube or on Facebook, and I bet I can watch one of those. So I did. So I pulled it up. And I watched one. And I think I found a broadcast on YouTube from Atlanta, I believe it was from one in Atlanta that I was able to just kind of stumbled on, you know, so I kind of watched it a little bit. And I thought, you know, that's kind of cool. didn't think much on it for about another week or so. But then, all of a sudden, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I'm like, What is

01:03:08 --> 01:03:45

this? You know, why am I getting consumed with this? You know, I'm very happy where I'm at, you know, I, you know, the church seems to be, you know, taking care of me in a pretty decent way, you know, I'm pretty good with it. I don't understand, you know, where this is coming from, but I could not, could not stop. And it was all consuming. All I would think about was, I want to know that I want to read the Quran, I want to go back to one of the mosques. I want to talk to Muslims. I want to you know, figure out you know what this is. So finally, I was sitting at work, and it was a Friday, and I just sent a message into the local, the local one here, and I'm like, you know, hey,

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I'd like to meet with somebody and they said, well, coincidentally, tonight is our community dinner, why don't you come out? So I'm like, All right, you know, so whenever it's just a couple of minutes from my house. You know, whenever had dinner met with a couple people I met with, with the Imam and everything that was there. And he's like, I can't see you until later on in the week. Come back, you know, like, that was a Friday. He's like, come back, like on Tuesday. So I'm like, if this is supposed to happen, everything will play out. So I went over on Friday or whenever on like, I think it was Tuesday, after the evening prayers, and was to meet with him. And I'm kind of talking with

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him. And he's like, Well, what do you think? And I'm like, right here tells me that this is where I need to be. Because I feel very peaceful. When I'm here. I feel very happy whenever I'm here. This is where I need to be at. And I don't know why. I said but all I know is this is where I'm supposed to be. So we talked for, you know, I would say probably another half an hour, 45 minutes. And he said, Are you ready? Are you ready to do this? And I said I think I am. So I came back in on February 28 and met with a couple of brothers there in the evening and took the shahada and it was just before almond

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On, I had no idea what I was getting myself into, I jokingly told people I should have looked at my calendar because I was not ready to do 30 days of fasting that soon after joining him with this, but you know what, at the same time, I'm very grateful, because I was able to get such a sense of community, from all of the things that happened during the Ramadan season, you know, with the guitars and you know, the different gatherings and things like that. And I was very happy that that's when I actually chose to do it. But to this day, if you asked me why I can't tell you, all I know is that this is where a lot wanted me to be. And this is where he put me out and everything,

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it's I say a lot. It's much easier to see where you've been, if you look behind you than it is to look forward, I can look behind me and see everything that's happened to me over the course of the last years, has put me to where I need to be right now. And I believe in all of my heart that when I was ready to do the shahada in order to come into Islam, that I had been pushed and shoved and pushed in taught different things and shown different perspectives in order to be prepared and to be ready to be where I was at. And I think if I had done it beforehand, I don't think I would have stayed.

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Just so people get an idea of the shahada when somebody answers the first one of the five pillars of Islam, and one is the testimony of faith that you declared that there's nothing worthy of worship, except the Creator of the heavens, on earth, in Arabic, Allah, and that Muhammad peace of blessings be upon him is the final messenger, the slave servant, messenger of God Almighty, the Creator, Allah and Sue's automatically include all the preceding messages that came before him, including Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, and all the other messengers and prophets that God Almighty sent, and you would say the same thing during their time line Allah. And if you live during the time of Jesus,

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Isa, Jesus is the Messenger of Allah, during Moses time, Moses, the Messenger of Allah. And this just makes so much sense when you put it together. What, for somebody? Now, before we conclude, for somebody who's just getting into now, really, to the very important questions, what's the purpose of life? Why am I here, and they're not really in tune with what their parents brought them up to, things don't make sense Trinity. And the party's getting played out. And there's a void in the hearts. So they don't have to go around the whole world looking at all the different called manmade religions. How do you separate Islam, the Quran, Prophet Muhammad, from all the men made religions

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that are out there to really know that it is the truth from the Divine, as you said earlier, how would you explain this to somebody? And just, you know, a few words, what advice would you give them?

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You know, I think it's definitely important for people to look at things because what you don't want to do is you don't want to jump in at one and then for you know, forego everything else, especially if you don't feel that that's where you're supposed to be, I feel, you know, where I'm at now is where I needed to be. But I can say, with great uncertainty that if I hadn't looked at those other religions, denominations and things like that, I don't think my faith would be as strong as what it is now. Because I know, from being through those that no matter which one I was at, something was missing. I don't feel that missing piece anymore, I feel very complete and very whole with this, I

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will say that I'm much more content in my life, knowing that whatever is going to happen is the will of Allah. And I'm very happy to know that I'm, you know, if you want to consider me a slave of a law, I'm perfectly content to wear that very, very proudly, because

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a law is the one that's in charge. And I'm I love that, and it's not that I've given up my free will, it's not that I've given up my freedom, or I've given up anything, I just don't have to worry about it so much. Because even if I see it as a negative, maybe that's where I need to be at that point in time to have a positive come from something else. And that's not something that's really taught in other religions, you know, or anything really, it's always Oh, it's negative thing here, you know, you got to overcome it, I don't really have to overcome it, I need to figure out what I need to learn from it. So why is this negative thing happening? What what positives going to come

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out of it, it might be a negative now, six months down the road, it might be the best thing that's ever happened to me. And as long as I continue to put myself into the, into the role of you know, this is the will of Allah and I'm very content to to live with the will of Allah and to continue forward with that. I feel very good about that.

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That is really profound and deep and for Christians tuning in just hearing the term Allah for the first time Arabs who are Christian they use the word Allah and Aramaic Allah ha This is the Creator of the heavens and earth Jesus in Aramaic he would call on God Almighty but Allah ha this is when you say Allah, this is the creator, the one God and I'm very happy elated to hear this story. I'm sure many other people are going to be really thrilled to watch it and benefit

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from it and in sha Allah they may this be an inspiration to move more people to at least examine and look into Islam and I've interviewed so many different people from across the globe and similar situation where they went through and they looked at all the different religions, some joint here and there but when they came, and they finally looked into Islam, it's just like you described this was it? This was what was missing. And Alhamdulillah Congratulations again. Thank you very much. Thank you may God Almighty Allah can you bless you preserve you and shall I will meet again, sometime in the future.

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Inshallah, Peace be with you. Salaam Alaikum. Thank you.

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Well, I can say hello. But I want to come up with a lie but I can't do Hello, I'm Dr. Daniela, that I'm so excited to be here at the deen center, mashallah, which is under renovation. And I can't wait to see what's going to come and tell it there's going to be a data center. There's a masjid, there's a school and Islamic school, a gym and what we hope Inshallah, we'll also have a mental health part of this center as well in sha Allah. So I'm asking you to please make sure that you support this effort, inshallah I really hope that it spreads and really the knowledge of established people get to know more about Muslims that are stamped with this fit

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