Channel: The Baba Ali Show
Special guest Sheikh Mohamed Mohamed joins Baba Ali in discussing: why some Muslim kids hate the Masjid how the Prophet (saw) treated children the impact of how we deal with our children and their connection to the Masjid
Bali Show Episode 16 why some Muslim kids hate the masjid. This podcast has been brought to you by half our deen.com and Muslim marriage website designed for those who want to find that other half privately because the only people that should know you're looking to get married or people who are looking to get married, try half our Deen today. So Muslim kids hate the mustard. And then the parents wonder why these same kids were once just small children. Ironically, these same children were scolded for acting like children. So imagine how these same kids perceive a place that they're told to sit down, be quiet, listen, and don't make it sound to them. It's like a prison and sadly,
some of them are as young as toddlers, so they're too young to comprehend what's going on. If they're caught being playful, they're given nasty stares followed by a lecture does building a negative association with the mustard at a very young age. As much as we study other aspects of Islam. We should also look into how the Prophet Solo is Salaam dealt with small children at the mustard and I think the answer will surprise many of the uncles and Auntie's, especially to those who belong to the Huron police.
Let's do this.
For cultural Muslims have confused the masses and speakers are forced to be politically correct.
Hey, man, why y'all serious? This is just a podcast.
We've all seen this countless times, a two year old kid is being playful during Salaam and Moscow as far as writing his father's back and sujood only to be given a lecture afterwards on why he should respect the prayer and be quiet and don't like me like a camel in the masjid respect. Here's a reality check. I think it is two years old. I don't think he understands what's going on, let alone understand with respect even means we think that the more religious we are, the more rigid we need to be. And that's just not accurate. In fact, many of the same situations we see today happen at a time of the Prophet sallallahu sallam. And if we only study his actions more, instead of making it
what we think being religious means our relationship with our kids would be quite different. And their connection with the mustard would be quite different as well. Do you know what the prophet SAW some did, his grandson was writing his back during Salah. He let him play. In fact, he didn't want to disturb his fun, and he went as far as extending his sujood. The reality is that many young kids just don't like the masjid. Not only do we lack programs for them, but more importantly, the others don't put enough effort to make those kids feel welcomed muster. leaders have no problem telling the parents to bring the youth to the Islamic Center. But once the kids get there, there's really
nothing for them to do. And it basically is told to sit down and be quiet. It's where they meet the Huron police for the first time. It's no surprise why they start feeling disconnected from the monster at a very young age. And yes, we are the ones to be blamed for it. If you want to change our situation as Muslims then let's start changing the way we do things and let's start treating the children like the way the prophets always said I'm treated children. I speak into myself before I speak to anyone else because I get frustrated with these kids as well. These kids are a test for you and me. My guest today Sheikh Mohammed Mohammed is originally from Sudan. Born and raised in Saudi
Arabia. He has studied Islamic sciences with many scholars hoses jazz and he has majored in biochemistry. He's currently pursuing his degree in Islamic psychology. He works with many masters and Islamic organizations in different capacities as taught Arabic does read Islamic studies for many years and he's our guest for today. Welcome to the Baba Ali show. as salaam aleikum wa Alaykum wa to the first guests we've ever had by the name of Mohammed, Mohammed. As you probably know, the most common name in the entire world is Mohammed and the most popular last name in the world. Do you know what that is?
is Lee but I've never met Mohammed Lee. But I've met Mohammed Mohammed says the next best thing is Sharla.
But that's not what our topic is. Today's topic today is about the mustard kids. And as many messages we have two extremes. On one end, we have parents who have absolutely no control over their kids and their kids are like army answers throwing everything in their path. And you have kids just being kids and the harangue. Police expect you these children to sit in one spot without moving or without making a sound. How do we deal with each extreme? That's interesting. First of all, start Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam ala rasulillah. So like you said, in this massage, you see both extremes, and we need to understand how the Prophet sallallaahu Selim dealt with those because
I mean, there's nothing new under the sun, right kids will be kids. So we know he says some of the destructive and some of them will be will need discipline so on. As for those who get disruptive, I mean, the kids, of course have to be educated, have to be taught but the problem that we have is that we get so aggressive that we actually repel them.
So the education is important, but the How is the part that we are missing up on. And as far as dealing with those kids, a lot of times we care more about how people will look at us. And what people will say about us raising our kids more than how this kid will come out of this experience on how they react to how what kind of relationship they will have with domestic or with Islam. And all that is very important, because at that age, they will develop all of that. So the way we deal with it might actually set the relationship between our children on domestic for life. So we have to really be careful with that. We see the Prophet sallallahu Sallam giving them some reins where they
can be kids, and still be themselves and enjoy the experience in the masjid. But at the same time, they are educated. So within a short time, they know the etiquette and how to deal with the masjid and when to be quiet when that is on. And that's the important thing here. Because a lot of people think that the more religious you are, the more rigid you have to be, especially when it comes with children and small children. They really don't understand in fact, they're not even accountable for the things that we're accountable for. So how do we expect them to act like adults, when they're just like three or four years old? So I don't really understand that aspect of it. But I want to ask
you, like many of the youth, they don't know, like coming to the masjid. So why do you? So why do you think that is, I think mainly is because I'll see two issues. First, we don't really show them that we care. And a loved one will say the thing. And I love it, that people don't really care how much you know, until they know how much you care. Yeah, they don't really see that we can see that we want to discipline them. So they see us as bad guys all the time. And that's problematic. So just treating them that they are insignificant, or that they don't matter and only caring about, you know the comfort of the adults that will repel them because they will feel that they're not part of the
community. The other issue is that we don't really cater to the needs. So we have programs of course, for adults and matrimonial stuff and all everything else. But when it comes to the children at most probably would have some Arabic and Quran class but nothing else. At most places. I see these two issues as issues that will keep the youth and the children away from domestic, they will only come if they're forced. Sadly, that's unfortunate because if we find a new way or a creative way to channel their energy, we can make it much more attractive especially for young children. I mean, we often tell parents to bring your kids bring the kids to the masjid bring the kids but as
soon as they bring the kids there's nothing absolute to do for the kid. It's like what do you have for the kids? Oh, we have a prayer. Okay, my kids three years old. What else do you have? Oh, we have Suna. Okay, that's that's kind of like prayer. But okay. What else do you have? We have a special program on Friday. Okay, for three year olds, yes. Is Juma. Okay, I don't think my three year old understands what's going on during Juma. So it's like oh, then you can come during Ramadan. We have special program and you're like, Okay, you mean like babysitting or title? Wait, no. What are you talking about? Oh, it's tidal wave for children. It's not really for three year olds. So I
just don't understand. Like sometimes we have this mentality that we think that we're going to put the kids and expect them to act like adults in the masjid. And they're not adults. The prophet SAW some the way he dealt with children. I wish sometimes we sat down and studied the Syrah not just in the aspects of how he prayed and how he fast but as in how he was a good father, when you dealt with children. That's a whole different element that we never discuss. Can you give us an example of from this here for the purposes of how he dealt with children? Absolutely. I mean, like you said, studying the series is important. But I just want to point one thing out is a lot of times we look
at the zero, the Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu sallam, and a lot of times we take a ruling or two out of the Hadith, and we discard the rest. We don't really take the lessons that come from the rest of the Hadith, we don't really ponder it and try to apply everything we take one or two lessons and move on. So a lot of the headings For example, when it comes to them dealing with the children, it talks about, for example, how he would treat them come almost like equals and not better to the point where it is known that the Prophet sallallahu Sallam used to stand up when his daughter father needs to walk in the room. I mean, imagine that, imagine trying to tell parents nowadays that when
your children walk in the room, you have to walk them and show them this love to the point where you stand up and give them your seats. Impossible, impossible.
They'll be like a culture shock to most of us, right? Okay, that's impossible. But the Prophet sallallahu Sallam used to do that. So that's something that we have to really look into and examine the way we deal with things. So the Prophet Allah Tell him not only that with his children with this kindness, but also children around him because like I said, the only things we offer in the mustard are the things you mentioned, but I see more, let's be fair, we give them scolding eyes.
And also we give them a little food sometimes it's
They can handle it, but we have something for them. And that's it. But the purpose is to deal with children in a way that will make them love him love to be around him so much that even when he comes back from a battle, so we're talking about days and weeks and months of traveling of being wounded and having war and fighting, and he will come back and the first people to meet him outside of Medina coming in are the children. Yes, they will be so excited to see Him and He will give them individual attention. So he will not be okay, you know what I'm tired, you know, not now I can't do it. He didn't give him any of that he will actually give them rides behind him. Some of them going
back into Medina, he didn't even get to his house yet. And he will do them that way.
As far as in the massage and dealing with them on the community, he used to bring the children and a lot of people have an issue with people bringing small children in, but we haven't had it there are authentic, what the purpose of our selling is to for example, carry his granddaughter maimunah and he will carry him masala and he will
even describes how he used to put her down when you make record. And he will carry her again going up, he will put her down to go take her back up when he moves up. So it's something that was normal for him.
And he and she's a child that he carries. So of course we have the fact that she cries makes noise, all of them. And there was no issue. Also, there's a hadith where the Prophet sallallahu Sallam said that I came and I was intending to make the prayer long, is leading the prayer. So he said I intend to make it long. But when I heard the child in the back cry, I hastened the prayer, I had a fear that his mother might be harmed by the cry of the child. So his care was how the child is going to feel and how his mother's going to feel not just adults and how their concentration of prayer which is the only thing we think about a Muslim are okay, the children are going to be noisy, please take
them away. You're responsible. We put so much pressure on the parents that they probably don't even feel like bringing the children around because they don't want to feel that feeling of shame or getting these looks where What are you doing? He is missing up masala, but the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he cared more about how the children feel than the people's ideas or opinion about how to concentrate in the Salah. Wow, that's not to say that we shouldn't concentrate on the Salah. But for example, a very famous Hadith where the Prophet sallallahu Sallam start to be solo. And he actually came into the mustard with his carrying his grandkid.
And he came and he put him down. He stopped me consola leading the prayer, obligatory prayer. And then in one of the searches, he made it really long. So one of the competitors was never had an idea. He said, I feared that something happened to him. So I looked up. So the man actually broke his heart. He looked up and he said, I saw his gun cut on his bed plane. So I knew that things were okay. So I went back to the dude and waited. So the problem, made the prayer and finished and look back and the people will send you out a sort of love you change. I mean, this time you made one such that was really long, what happened, we thought that something happened to you or you start to
receive revelation. He said, No, my grandchild actually started using me as arrived. And he said, I didn't want to disturb him until he finished. So how long I mean, he cared more about the child finishing his play than actually making this a lot longer or people saying that oh is the prayer and can't mess with it. None of that. And most of it, like you said gets so rigid with the prayer that we take it to be this ritual that have to be like clockwork has to be done exactly this way, nothing can disturb it, I cannot have no challenge in it. It has to be easy, and so on. But I mean, a lot of things distract us. And we probably more distracted with things in our mind than anything that will
happen along the way. Don't treat it the same. That's very well said. And sometimes the message you see a small child just being playful during Salah, and they get scolded, as you said with those books. right afterwards, I bet you know that speech is coming. And they sit there in the corner and uncle will come and say to them and respect the masjid respect. And the child would respect me, he's four years old. And then he just has this negative association, as you mentioned, and then they grew up with this negative association. Some of them they get hit, some of them yell that some of them just estero alone, and they just remember all these feelings. And personally for myself, I tried to
the exact opposite thing for my children everything when it comes to survive. And like just recently for both my children, I told them, you can pick any toy you want. But in exchange, I want you to memorize refer to her, and I want you to explain what it means. Now the reason for all this is because I know 17 times a day, my kids are going to be reciting this surah. So I want them to at least understand what this means not just say the words and as you said, Go through the rituals of Salah I want to connect their hearts. And if they can have a positive association with learning this, which means their favorite toy that they can purchase. That's awesome. Rather than, hey, I'm
going to scold you and yell at you and give you a dirty look. If you don't do these actions will be better. Why don't we associate more positive things with these things? So the children as they're growing up, they remember this positive feeling with like, for example, like no matter what happens in the house, if your family has
come together and practice a lot together, that will always be a positive association rather than a negative association. You get yelled at to go pray because you haven't prayed. Does that make sense? Absolutely. I mean, a lot of times, we'll feel that we are doing the right thing. But disciplining children right away immediately in front of everybody, sometimes, like you said, and we don't think about the consequences. And what that does to a child's psyche. I mean, a lot of them, like, like you said it, they have this negative connotation, every time I go there, I can't move, I can play, I can have fun. Everybody looks at me with this look of disdain. Everybody just wants to, you know,
imprison me and lock me up somewhere. So they associate that with the message. And that's, that's not a good thing at all. So what can we do as a community to change the way we deal with mostly kids with the hopes that don't make a positive impact on how the kids view this? That's the big question.
We need, we need some psychologists and machines to sit together and just give us a whole, like maybe lectures, I will extend for a few weeks a month on that. But but just to kind of be brief, I think, first, we need to completely have a different outlook on the messaging on the kind of attitude and behaviors we need to have in the message. So when you come to the message, you can't expect everything to be completely still. I mean, we're dealing with human beings, not chairs. So you can just expect everybody to be completely still making no noise, having concentration to be 100%, and all of that practice, so we have to expect the children will be our children. And we have
to be able to deal with them in a way that will kind of make them feel that I'm still welcome. Even if I do mistakes, I'll be corrected, but in a way that will still make me be around these people. And that's how the pathologizing used to do it. He used to have nicknames for children and have a personal relationship with them. And when he will correct them, there'll be no harshness whatsoever, no matter what the act is. So a lot of times we fear that all the children, they're gonna maybe if they're small enough, they might urinate, something's going to happen to the carpet, oh, my God would paint so much better. And we're gonna have to clean it and do this and that.
And that didn't happen this time from grown folks and from children alike. And he just Okay, let's clean it up, educate them, according to the age. So the old man who was told, okay, this is not what we do, you have to go to where you do that. For the children, it was just cleaned up. And the power center made sure that the child is not disturbed to the point like his one of his grandchildren sitting on his on his belly, Salalah, Salamis, Linden, and MSG, and he started to make the kid last, like you will play with him and play with him, make him laugh 234 times until the child starts to urinate from how hard he was laughing and wonder. Like, imagine your grandkid is actually on your
belly, no claws or nothing. And you start to just believe himself or herself, that companion who suddenly jumped up about the grab the kid to get them off. And the Prophet sallallahu Sallam put his hand up to him and said, Don't disturb my child, let him finish. Right and finish what we talked about being right. He said, Let Don't disturb him, he that's what he will care about. Don't disturb him, letting him finish him his lap at least. So when he finished and he stopped laughing and all that, then apart from them, pick them up, put them to the side, clean the kid and then clean himself and all of that with a smile. So like you said, this positive reinforcement of having the children
know that we want you to be around, we liked you to be around, and they will grow and learn from the experience. I mean, that's what we do. As children we pick up from from the environment around us. I remember leaving Tara we had one in LA and you know, a lot of tickets going up and down like I had. So I'm one of the children who I remember as a baby, the parents are bringing to the Mr. So much that he's a toddler and he barely speak a few words, one of the few things we used to say is a lot. Every time I say a lot, but we brought behind me.
I mean, imagine what kind of attitude you have, he will have up to a domestic when he grew up with this kind of experience. Yeah, so it's just a different outlook that we can have about how to deal with each other period. And that just give everybody that dirty look, when they have done something we don't like which might not even be wrong, as far as Islam is concerned is just that's not what we used to or this disturbs me. And it's all about me. And that's the wrong attitude. So we have to make sure that we have to treat them well, whether they are children, whether they are adults, anybody around us, and just we need to be educated, like you said in the beginning about how to
publish to the bar to send them used to do things. A lot of times we are not familiar with it, we talk about how powerful the lolly cinemas example, but we only talk about the rituals and the battles. And that's as far as as far as that goes as far as his model, right? So we don't take how he is of a father is a youth leader. I mean, the youth used to be around he is the you know all of these positions and one of the models and so a lot of times we have to really look at how the person used to deal with the youth, with the children, the toddlers, the babies and we try to embody that a lot of times we are not familiar with it at all. And unfortunately that's where we kind of fall
short. And if we did more of that we will have a complete different outlook on the way we deal with the children and the children have a complete different view of what the mustard is and they'll have hopefully less a harem police
Dealing with all these different things because unfortunately, as much as we say that the youth, the youth, the youth, unless we take care of our youth, we're not going to have that next generation to take over these mustards to take over these programs, and to be the energy to make these programs continue. Because if it's just a bunch of old people at the masjid, and there's nothing else, we're just like a senior system home. So
we can see the seriousness of the home. This is not how Islam spread, it was by the youth, you know, it was with their energy we and this generation Hamdulillah, we have a lot of smart kids out there. And if we can make this next generation active and part of our community and feel like they're part of the community, I think we can really, really make some positive influence. Absolutely. We I mean, we even have to really understand the issues a lot of times do you feel that they cannot really talk to us, and especially in the midst, like the promise of our film, imagine? Let's imagine at this time, one of the youth come into the mystery, it goes to the mom, or the chef, or any of the good
brothers and sisters who come to them regularly, and say, You know what, I'm thinking about having a boyfriend or girlfriend, how do you feel about that? Or, you know, is that really wrong, and so on, most of us will get so offended, especially if it's done in a message. But that's exactly what happened with the purpose of the last one of the youth can tune in with the method full of companion. And he said, Yeah, you know, it pretty much you know, nowadays terms is I'm young, I'm not married, I have needs, make it hard for me to you know, have a girl on the side. That's exactly how he said it. And I didn't get upset, he actually told him come close. Because remember, the boy
said though, the young man sat down a little further from say, Don't come close. So it kind of screwed it up a little bit and fennel, come even closer. So here we see the deer repellent, he pulled him out, bro near to I'm not mad, come close. And once they are touching needs the person and talk to him in a language that he understands, right and in conveyed the message that this is not the thing you want to do without a strong lecture without telling him that this is not the right thing. How dare you how this what kind of Muslim you know, the Quran said this alma mater, how long How can you ask me this? None of that. He just told him, you know, how would you like that to be
done to your mother to your sister use logic used his jealousy that he knew he had. And the young man learned the lesson and moved on from that he said I've never had those urges ever asked. So we have to understand the issues that youth have nowadays. And we have to have the patience to really know how to deal with it. I agree with you. 100% I wish Sharla all the listeners will be listened to this episode and take some gems from it because a handler I have I know I am one of those people who sometimes have been frustrated with children, even though I have to myself. And this is a handler, goodness, a good reminder for myself because I'm just like everybody else. I make mistakes like
everybody else. And as much as I make these podcasts for my listeners, interesting enough, every single episode I learned something and again, I've learned something at this episode as well. So
with that said, I'd like to thank all my listeners for listening to this podcast and I could thank my guest chef Mohammed Mohammed for coming on and sharing his knowledge with us and for everyone who's interested make sure you go to our podcast which is a Baba Ali show.com and subscribe to it in iTunes and podcasts addict app if you're on your Samsung phone if you're on your iPhone, go to your podcast app and please leave a review you guys be listened to so many episodes so far. I think we're about 16 episodes so please leave me a review let me know what you guys think it'll mean a lot to me just soco our fair share for joining us today. And this is Bobby Lee reminding you just in case
you've forgotten us.