Is Mental illness a Sign of Weak Faith with Mufti Menk
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Channel: Tarek Kareem Harris
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Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, my beloved brothers and sisters, I'm so so glad to be able to join once again, and to be able to connect with you guys. Today I want to speak about mental health. There was a time when I used to think because we were told that anyone who's struggling with mental health has perhaps weak Eman or their faith in Allah is weak. And that's the reason why they're struggling mentally. And then I learned otherwise. And from a long time now, I am more educated about mental health. And to be honest, it does not mean that a person struggling with mental health issues has weak faith or even that is something extremely important for us to know.
Yes, building your connection with Allah will definitely help you improve. But it does not mean that a person struggling with their mental health has a problem in their connection with Allah. So let's get that straight. There are so many people, so many factors. And it's important for us to speak to people who are professionals in that field, and especially the Muslims from among them, who can actually marry the two and tell us exactly how to look at it. So sometimes you have a person who removes religion from the equation when we are believers. So we will have to have religion as a focal point. But at the same time, there are others who remove the health factor from the equation
and make it only a religious thing. That, to me is a major problem. What we need to do is understand where Muslims Yes, we will be guided by the UN and the sooner as illustrated by the Sahaba, the low animal and the illustrious scholars, to be honest. While that is our focus, we also need to acknowledge that there are health issues, just like when you have a cough, just like when you have COVID-19 May Allah grant us all protection, there is a spiritual factor that would boost you and empower you, it would it would actually make your connection with Allah stronger, it does not mean that alone is going to cure you. Allah requires that you also look at the you also look at the
Medical aspect and you seek guidance and assistance from the professionals in that particular field. So I have a friend, Dr. tk Harris, he has an Instagram account, he has a YouTube account that I convinced him to actually open and Mashallah he's not a public speaker as such, but I've convinced him to say, Please help us because I've learned a lot from him. And I'd like you to also learn from him. Dr. tk Harris has some books, two of them I know about that are really good. One is called Instant insights. And the other one is called Instant actions. Both of these are available on Amazon. And I'd encourage you to buy them The reason is, we have the marriage of the medical plus
the spiritual dimensions. And this is when we would be able to be empowered in a holistic way. And that's the reason why I've promoted him. And I've decided you know what to encourage him, although he's not a public speaker to come out and speak to us. So I will be waiting for him to join us. I hope he does. And inshallah I will, we will then take it from there. In the meantime, if any one of you have issues, I pray that today we will be able to learn a little bit, every one of us would be going through ups and downs. And that is absolutely normal. Some go through a little bit more than others. We have issues in our lives we eat, you know, perhaps sometimes the way you're eating
perhaps the way you might be,
you know, at times it's even connected to genetics, at times it may be connected to a lack of exercise and a lot of other factors. So many people around you and sometimes just a low day we have we happen to be human beings and human beings fluctuate. And you know what? Yes, like I said, when you develop your relationship with Allah, you become stronger in your prayer. It definitely will help you and it will definitely
act as a catalyst to gaining that solution and be in LA as our agenda. It will help you to come out of whatever you might be going through. Together with that we need a very supportive layer of people around us. very supportive layer of people around
Who can understand what we're going through who can give us good guidance, say good words, empowering words to us. To be very honest, one of the reasons why I've been going live to talk to everyone is because of this factor. When I say that, you know,
we talk to those who are affected, those who've been through issues and problems, those who have been sick and ill, those who have suffered loss, when you lose a job, that is a big strain on the mind on the body, and who's going to help you? Well, if you have a layer of people around you who can actually be understanding, you will definitely be able to solve that matter or look at it from angles that would not result in greater trauma than the trauma that already exists. People who've been through divorce, people who've been through so much, they've lost their business, they have no more income, they don't know where the next plate of food is going to come from. We are here to tell
you, no problem. Allah bless you, Allah grant you, we are all here to support you by the will of Allah. And you know what so many people I had a brother who told me a few years ago that he had a debt of $100,000. And he did not know what is going to happen so much uncertainty. And so when Allah He called me a few days ago, telling me, I just wanted you to know that that debt is gone. And on top of that, I've made a surplus and the profit of X amount. And Subhana Allah That's a lot. Your faith in Allah should be complete and should be as strong as ever. At the same time. You also need to know work hard, and your work will pay dividends by the will of Allah, Allah will help you no
point in sitting back and relaxing. This is why we also say we know that Coronavirus is affecting a lot of people, what you need to do is if you are affected, you don't need to panic about it. There are so many others who have been affected, they've come out of it because they took the medication, they they built their immune systems, they fought off the virus, they went through whatever they could, and Subhanallah it was just amazing. So the same applies, you must take precautions if you have not been affected yet. And I'm using the word yet because we probably would at some point be affected. You need to know, take precautions, you know, don't think that you're too strong or your
faith is so strong that you don't need to take precautions because then you're actually insulting Allah who tells you that you must tie your camel and then lay your trust in Allah. So that's what it is. I noticed. Dr. tk Harris is here with us. You guys can connect with him in chat on Instagram, on YouTube as well. He's got some very short
videos. Like I said, He's not a public speaker. But I'm the one who encouraged him to come through and say you know what, you have to do something. So let's listen to what he has to say in Sharla as though agenda and Bismillah Here we go. Male brothers and sisters
on YouTube, you can follow him subscribe to his channel. He's got some good stuff there. Even on Instagram, he's got some really good stuff. Salam aleikum.
Wa Alaikum Salaam with TV? How are you?
I am all the better for hearing your voice. I tune in all the time. And I don't say much I just love listening. I mean, look, Alhamdulillah you are talking about mental health as if you are an outsider, but to everyone who knows you've been given honorary degrees because of your ability to socially guide people. And in fact, it was,
you know, our our lifelong friendship that led me to think you know, I can be of use in this arena, because it is no use to have mental health without faith. That's what that's the message that I believe.
I think I ought to be telling people. So I'm just glad that you know, somebody of your character, and your your profile is doing something for mental health, which I believe nobody has really done. And it's just wonderful to be here. Well, perhaps there might be a few people who we don't know of who are doing it and we need to reach out to them as well make a draft for those who don't know, Allah bless them and strengthen them as well. And inshallah more and more people will be talking about this, but I have a question for you.
Please go ahead, my brother.
I noticed you call it mental wealth instead of mental health. Can you? Can you explain that? Yes, thank you for letting that I suppose. There is a lot of talk around mental health and mental illness and mental fitness and physical health. And it led me to think Well, what does it mean for a person to be close to allow to be in command of their life, and to be basically someone who is valued by others around them and who feels good in themselves that they've got a reasonable balance between
All the things that drive them, they've got control of their bad habits. And it struck me that mental health doesn't quite explain it. Because mental health people say, well, that might be the absence of depression, the absence of sadness or happiness. It's certainly not mental fitness. mental fitness seems like a strange thing. But where do we know? Where do we where can we capture it? And it struck me that actually, it was in front of me all along. Because there's a hadith by the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam about contentment. When he said, contentment or rich, you know, it's riches and contentment. Well, actually, the true riches that we have are within contentment.
And this is something which I've been trying to, I guess, both Western medicine, and the guidance of Allah puts us towards, so I thought, well, that word is captured in wealth. true wealth has got to be spiritual wealth, and has got to be a person who is at peace with the world around them. That's why I've called it mental wealth. Anyone can have it, whether you are mentally well, or even unwell. People say, Well, how can you have mental wealth? If you're unwell? If you were unwell, and you have knowledge of Allah, believe me, you are mentally wealthy, you never have to do. So that's why I think mental health captures the idea.
So mental wealth Now tell us how many years of experience do you have with dealing with such issues?
Well, under law when I went off to medical school, back in the early 90s, you know, I think you and I are roughly the same age. And although that seems not long ago, it turns out to be more than 25 years. And from very early on, I was unsure, protect, particularly what I wanted to do, but it struck me that actually, I wanted to do something that other people found difficult. I don't know about you. But sometimes there are some people who like to do things that other people don't. And I'm afraid I realized I'm one of those people. And I like to stand up for people who are ignored. And I also like you grew up in Zimbabwe, where we can see poverty in front of us. And we can know
the voices of the powerless and the and the powerful. And it struck me that I should be an advocate for people who don't feel they have a voice or who are not confident. And that led me down the mental health Avenue Alhamdulillah. And ever since then, since we the year, the year.as. far as I'm concerned, 2001 is when I started to work in Oxford, and I trained in in the sacado School of psychiatry there. Then I went off and did my training rotations and all that sort of ascendancy to consultancy.
And 2011 I became a consultant and I worked as a consultant neuropsychiatrist
and
Alhamdulillah I'm just so grateful that actually, I realized once I was a consultant that I had this knowledge but I didn't, I didn't quite feel connected enough to the to the oma I wanted to bridge the gap between my profession and my soul, if that it to put it in a very, perhaps slightly over poetic way. But seeing people like you has brought me over to this and inshallah I can be of use to the oma that's all I really pray for. That's all I pray like, Yeah, what I think I've picked up in your work is the the element of faith. Normally people, you know, get worried about how if we were going to go to a psychiatrist or a psychologist, then we or even just a therapist, you know, we
might or a counselor, we might be getting advice that might be void of faith. And people say that may be depending on who the person is, they might even turn you away from your religion, although that's not true. But what is very comforting is to see someone like yourself, who has the faith as the main focus, the connection with Allah as the main focus together with all your qualifications and your experience and together with, you know, so much more, and we bring everything in together. You know, there's one taboo, and I'd like you to, to, you know, talk about it as a professional. If a person visits a psychiatrist, does it mean they're mad? Does it mean they've got a problem with
their heads or something? Meaning, you know, there is a stigma if someone says you need to visit a psychiatrist is in bed with a psychiatrist, say, I would like to go to a psychiatrist, just for some reason. My GP tells me or my family tells me or anyone tells me Listen, I think you need to pay a visit to a psychiatrist. What does that mean? What does it make me? Yes, yes. That's a very valid question. And in fact, you've probably touched on the reason why many people don't feel fully confident, or they feel perhaps slightly labeled in going to see a psychiatrist and it's something that every psychiatrist is aware of, and in fact,
It was, oddly enough that which drew me to psychiatry, because traditionally, in medicine, there are people who want to do medicine to be of use to people. But there are also people who want to do medicine because they want to feel powerful. And we have a joke that, you know, if you want to feel powerful, go and be a surgeon. If you want to feel powerless, go and be a psychiatrist. And under law, I felt that being powerless was actually good, because I could be humbled. And when people come to see me, they are often full of hangups, they're thinking, Oh, finally, I've come in front, what is my life come to, for example, yeah, I'm seeing a psychologist, but I tried to tell them in a very
simple way, look, your body that Allah has created for you is a collection of organs. And what you're saying, to me is, one of my organs isn't going great. And it happens to be the one in my head, if you have a liver problem, you see a hepatologist, if you have a skin problem, you see a dermatologist. So there really shouldn't be any hang up at all. And there should be no surprise that if you've got a problem in this organ, then you're going to have a problem thinking,
the courage that people have in getting over that hump. And putting themselves in front of me makes me feel so privileged, because I know, many people have fought against their own stigma, they fought against the shame that they might feel from their family. And they because they are fought that actually, I am worth it, I need to see an expert, I need to get over these things. And, frankly, I am so glad that the culture generally is moving towards a matter of fact, way, if you have a problem with the way you think, go and see an expert, what's the issue yet? You know, sometimes I can give you an example of a brother, who told me that he suffered for a few years. And one visit to a
psychiatrist with a small medication, I forgot what it is. But a small little tablet that he took, he says, changed him so much by the will of Allah that He actually slept much better, he could think much better, he could eat much better. So I wonder what it is. But
you know, people think sometimes that it's so taboo. And I started thinking of a person who has an allergy, because of maybe the pollen in the air during a certain time of the year, a small anti histamine, which is minute at night. Last thing, and I have that myself sometimes in that time of year. But you know, you have that template just before the sleep every morning, your net, your nasal passages and everything are so much better than what they would have if you didn't have that. And it's not like you did something evil or bad. So there is a stigma attached to visiting a psychiatrist. And I think, as you say, you know, it's foolish because if you need that help you need
that help. When I was young, you know, I played rugby and I damaged my nose. And I couldn't breathe for a while and it affected my eyes. I used to have ibex and I used to have difficulty breathing. And when I was a little bit older, I had a nose I had a nose operation in Blackpool in in, in the UK. And I remember it was 1998 I mean, I was 20 in my early 20s and SubhanAllah. Yeah, approximately. And that helped me so much. And I'm thinking to myself, I would have suffered all along. Now you just went to this to the doctor, he told you you need this, you built the courage to go for that little procedure, and Mashallah, you're okay. So there are people who go through stress,
they go through trauma and so on. Can you give us some of the reasons why people go through all of this? Yes, yes. Well, you know what we know, Islam is very realistic. If nothing else, it has been an easy journey for me to connect Islam to what I do professionally, because Islam contains so much wisdom about how life isn't Islam tells you straight. Life is not about land of milk and honey, you're going to face difficulties, and person a way face a difficulty such as a loss, or you may fall down and be heard. And we can see that even between different types of people. One child may fall down and get up and another one may fall down and stay down and cry. So we are born
differently. Why might we be born differently because our formula has decided that this is the way we are born, you're going to be like this and you're going to be like that. Why? Well, we have to assume that there is richness in the variety of human beings just in the way we're born. And then we all have different lives. When we have different lives. Some of us will face stresses that other people will not even recognize as a stress will lie. I have seen it I've seen everyone from Trump's who lived under bridges in Oxford, to Arab princes, and the depression that one person can feel might be so irrelevant to another. For example, this
One Arab Prince I saw, of course, they'll remain nameless. And by saying Arab Prince, there are so many princes that nobody could narrow it down. But well, he this man came to me and he said, you know, and he was properly depressed. And one of the symptoms of depression that no is expert is a loss of enjoyment of the things that make you happy. And I was relatively young in my career. And he said to me, you know, he said, Doctor, I know I'm not, I'm not happy because I've stopped enjoying time with my horses. And I said, Well, okay, you weren't you were quite a queen equestrian, like many era people are, what is it in a house? So it's true that you've lost? And you're you were very
passionate about your horses? And he said, yes, yes, yes. I, in fact, I've sold a few. He said, and I said, Well, okay, you sold a few. So he must have it three or four horses, maybe he sold two. I said, Well, how many have you got left, and he said, I've only got 600 left. But he said, out of courses that he had, he had possibly about 1000 thoroughbred horses, and he had 600 left. And that to him. Although, inside myself, there was a bit of me as a layman going, this is surreal, I could see that genuinely, in this man's heart, there was great, great, great sadness. And there was not no part of me that felt that this was invalid. In as much as when I saw a homeless guy in Oxford, a few
years later, who had lost everything, and was a he used to be a retail manager. And because he had fallen into drink, his wife kicked him out. And he's been living under a literally a motorway bridge for three years. And he was depressed. The intensity of his feeling, and having lost what he lost was very similar to the Arab Prince, and having lost what he lost.
I think the example you've raised is very important to say, I'm sure it's that of a person who might be wealthy and powerful on one hand, and another who probably has much less in life anyway, on the other, and so panela, how they can be affected. And each one goes through their own, you know, their own path by the will of Allah subhanho wa Taala. So, you know, Islam, for example, the Almighty constantly reminds us and the Prophet sallallahu sallam, not to attach ourselves too much to the dunya, that dunya and the worldly attachment is very dangerous. That's what we are taught that when you attach, you know, attach yourself to the Almighty, understand his plan. And I think what you're
saying is one of the ways of actually benefiting yourself and preparing yourself for a time of loss, you will not to attach in the first place to that which you did not know you were going to lose, like, I come from Zimbabwe, and the wealthy amongst us here in Zimbabwe, the first amount of money they would earn, they prefer to buy a flashy motor vehicle, but they might not be able to afford to service the car. But just for people to see that I've got the latest car, the latest this the latest that the latest phone but that they're struggling in their life. So Allah tells you don't do things to show off, you know, don't because the day you're going to lose that it's going to be such a such
a bad bit will knock the problem is going to be damaging. And if you did not show off, even if you had a little bit a little bit more than the day you may lose it, it would already have cushioned the blow so so to speak. Would you say that that's that's accurate? Absolutely. In fact, what you've touched on is
Islam description of what we consider in the in the in the trade to be called your, your locus of control. Now forgetting that very technical word, what it's basically saying is, your wealth, your value, is nothing to do with the comforts that Allah has provided you not Allah says, You are much better than quoting this. I am not a half is, but people like you could tell me endless quotes from the Quran where Allah tells you, these things I've given you they are merely comforts for this life. Be there your riches be there, your clothes, your boats, even your children. They are transitory, you will pay taxes on them, and you will live your life. And these things are not unlike Say for
example, this is not criticizing Christians, but the Christians would say, Oh, your wealth is a burden. Islam doesn't even say that. Islam says your wealth is your responsibility to treat it judiciously. And if you don't have wealth, then that is your faith. And just like the tramp who lives under a bridge, he can be as mentally wealthy for not having a penny because he has got the wealth of understanding that I am valued by Allah. Not for what I have. Not for what I can show to other people. I am valued simply
For having my faith in Allah, that is all I need. Well, you know, you've touched on something very important. We as Muslims, we believe firmly that Allah does not judge us by our wealth or even our bodies, but he judges us by our deeds, our character and our deed. So it's amazing how an hour passed. That's a direct Hadith of the Prophet said that in Allah to Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah. Allah does not.
Judge Allah does not look at your bodies, or your shape your what you look like any wonder, your wealth and so on. It depends on your deeds, and the condition of your heart. So you're so right, that it's amazing how, you know, like when we talk about how we should not do that, which is in the transgression of Allah, if you look at the reason why Allah tells us to do certain things, and the reason why he prohibits certain things is always in order for us to be balanced in a way that we can be the healthiest people in terms of the you know, our health, our mental health, and everything else connected with our relationship with Allah, people, people must never be the focus of us
pleasing, we should never want to please people all the time, you know, if people are happy with what you've done that your character and conduct, but if people are happy with what you've done in the obedience of Allah, then Alhamdulillah, you've succeeded. But if people are happy with what you've done in the disobedience of Allah, it will come back to bite you. That's what religion says. So for example, if a person is cheered on by all the men of the world, simply because
they dress in a specific way, if that dress happens to be within the obedience of Allah Alhamdulillah it's a very good encouragement. But if that dress is in the disobedience of Allah, and people are cheering us on, and we are getting happy by the cheering, it's going to get worse as time passes, because we're gonna, you know, their levels, they won't be satisfied anymore with what we've done for them. Because, by the way, been there done that, you know, we've already seen what we, what you've shown us, we want you to show us more, and it goes on and on until we are enslaved by, you know, by what people have to think. And that is actual enslavement. And I always tell people be
happy with what you look like the type of hair you have the skin, you have the eyes, you have the nose, whatever Allah has given you be happy with what how Allah has created you. That is true liberation. But unfortunately, we do have the temptations of this world, as well as the pressures of society. And the norms, the trends of the world. Social media has not made it any easier. Would you say that social media has contributed towards, you know, worse mental health? Or has it helped in any way? Yes, yes. Well, social media appears the overall. I mean, there are good elements. And there are bad elements and good elements of for example, that people could access information about
Islam or whatever, they might learn how to repair a Toyota better because they simply access it online. But unfortunately, what you've touched on is our primal nature. You know, sometimes people might call it enough. So some people might call it our emotions, our egos they take over. And where something is quite easily available, such as social media, I might be on my way to doing something quite good. Like Toyota, I think I want to fix my fan belt, or I want to learn how to be a good friend to my neighbors. So I'm going to look at one of the Manx lectures on friendship. But on the way, I see something quite lurid by somebody boasting about how many cars they have, or how much
money they've made, or how to make more money. And those things, they have a way of attacking our ego. And I, I make a big point of this in all of my books to say that look, one should be sympathetic to the way you are constructed. Allah has made you this way. And he has told you that look, your heart is going to do this, you will be tempted away by that. How are you going to manage that challenge because it's not entirely useless. Let's put it this way. Your heart, if you want to become wealthy, if it's for a good reason, because when I become wealthy, I will be able to help all the other people who I grew up with, then clearly you will need that you will need what you might
argue as a bit of a lust for wealth, but it is coming from a good place. And it energizes your work. There are many people who say Well, yes, I'm an airline pilot, but you know what, I really do it I don't do it for the wage. I do it because I love flying. In the same way people do something for the love of it. But I think what we need to realize is that social media
have made a game out of this. So that in as much as I was looking, in fact, at your posts the other day, and you were, you had a wonderful post up about somebody putting getting a million likes for the wrong reasons. And this is exactly what you are touching. If I have a million likes for the wrong reasons, that actually doesn't add to my value, it actually takes me down a very slippery slope. And sooner or later, I find myself extremely popular with 101 million people for the wrong reasons. And I've lost my faith. Why? Well, it's very clear that God has told me, in fact, these things match up so well to broad, simple psychology, that we know there are parts of the brain,
which light up, when you arise, see something, can I tell you this, if the moment you are an icy bear flesh, there are parts of the brain which light up, and when that happens, the blood supply to your logical factors goes down. So Allah has told you hide the flesh. Because we know now from science, that when you look at bare flesh, your ability to think clearly actually gets diminished.
listening,
reading and professionally, something to be honest with you, I really, really appreciate that, you know, and and and i also I want, I have a question that sprung to my mind. Now that is, you know, you have people who are very, very famous, some very well. And recently there was someone, well, a few people who have actually taken their own lives. And, you know, if you could have caught this person before they took their life, what would you tell them, like said, This guy with so many million followers, everyone thinks he's living the life. And the next thing they heard it, he he's gone, and he took his own life.
If you were able to see them prior to this happening, right, the event? Well, part of it is it's covered in what we sort of talked about this now, which is, he may have found himself going down a slippery slope, where his only source of esteem comes from what other people value in or how other people think of him. Now, psychologists would call that a very, very, very vulnerable state of affairs. Because if you depend on the world, for your self esteem, the world is a very fickle place. And you are only as valued as the last thing you wore was the last thing you said. And we've seen it many, many a time, anyone who lives in the world will see that oh, this person was very valued. And
yet they made one mistake here. And suddenly the press went crazy for them. And now they are humiliated, and they live in the shadows. And these kinds of things can happen to make a person feel very vulnerable. However, there are also people that look looking at the scientific side, when we look at people who commit suicide, we actually find that they are over represented in in a number of ways. People who seek to entertain others find validation from amusing other people or from sort of making other people happy entertainers, but for example, or fashion icons, whether they are more vulnerable to depression. And when we look back upon the behavior before the suicide, we actually
find that they have slipped into a depression, which nobody would notice. Because when somebody becomes of high profile, their behavior becomes so cartoonish, that you can't really tell whether they're being themselves at all.
There's quite a few famous characters who people around them go actually Yes, he did say one thing that led me to be concerned. But otherwise, you got him in front of a camera, and he was Mr. showbiz. And so we look back and we say, okay, scientific, what I will tell you is this, there is a high chance that they become depressed. And it was their very fame that led them to not open up, because they felt that everything that they was, was only valued because they were Mr. Happy. And they had no Avenue. They had no right to feel sad, because nobody would listen or nobody would care. Because if you're famous for being famous, who wants to hear you being miserable, right? So you have
actually you are even more cut off than the guy on the street because you have no nowhere to go to. Nobody's going to take you seriously the other issues. So there are there. If we look back at these sort of things, we can see the vulnerabilities in terms of what the person found themselves doing they became famous for x, y and Zed the find that they became depressed and what in fact, we have been very prescient because as we talked today, I'm working on a video. I just finished my first series, which is just an introduction to the mind, but my next series is about interventions on YouTube and it will be exactly this
I am going to imagine somebody who's depressed, who's at the end of their tether. And I'm going to record about seven or eight minutes worth of something which I believe will help them, what will help them? Well, you don't have to do anything merely exist, have faith in Allah that because you are alive, because of the virtue of the fact that you are alive. Allah has you for a purpose here. You do not have to do anything more, just get through one minute to the next minute to the next minute. And I guarantee you this, science itself will tell you that after a while the depression will diminish if you can just see yourself through this. And why do we know this? I know this
because I've seen 1000s of people. And I know that data, if you hang on through a tough spot, you have to treat it like a storm. It's not as if the farmer says, Oh my god, there's a there's a storm coming. I bet to abandon my farm forever. That would be funny.
You say, Well, okay, it's gonna ruin my crops, because I haven't prepared fine. And I
come out the other side. I'm gonna say, Sorry to interrupt. Would you say that all of us as human beings, at some point, we actually would go through turbulence in terms of mental health, would you would you say almost everyone goes through something? Absolutely, absolutely. And in fact, we all face mental health challenges. And there is a good statistic that says one in four of us will have a formal mental health issue, which is a huge, huge proportion when you think about it. But if one in four of us is having a formal mental health issue, like depression, we know that we cannot be ashamed of it, because it connects to the rest of our lives. Put it this way. When I trained in, in
medicine, I trained in various specialties. And one of my most poignant or insightful moments came when I was training in heart surgery. And one day, I was a relatively young chap, I was perhaps in my late 20s. And I came onto the ward and I saw my consultant, lovely, oh,
I think I've lost talk. Oh, sorry. Sorry, I lost. I lost your mind. Sorry. You said you saw your consultant. Yes. And he was talking to the patients on the ward. And I don't know why he was talking to them. And so I asked this nurse in charge. And she told me that actually, what he's trying to do is understand their lives. Because if you look at the eight people we have in the war today, this cardiac Ward, I
guarantee you on any given week, half of the people who have come on to our cardiac Ward have come because they received some terrible news. And they had a heart attack. Now compared and then people say, Well, these things are just in your mind. Well, if it's just in your mind, you got some terrible news that your son was involved in an accident, or you lost your job, and suddenly you have a heart attack. Can we see now that no human being is immune to psychological pain. And this can translate directly to cardiac pain. In fact, those guys on the ward were relatively lucky because half of the time, psychological pain leads to death. So we have to be empathetic to our existence.
You know, and this is why mental health is said to be cardiotoxic. And by 2020 2025, depression is going to be the world's biggest killer. Forget, forget heart disease and cancer. So we have to wake up to this as muslimeen. It's our job to look out for other people. And we have structure in terms of our religion because we are in we have a religion, which is naturally prone or naturally fixed, to good psychological principles. We have five times daily Salah, can I tell you how useful that is? psychologically? It gives you a break from whatever you're doing five times a day, right? But when Buddhists now are talking about, oh, I do mindfulness three, four times a day, we hear as Muslims
are going, Oh, that's very nice of you. We've been doing this since a year dot, right? We're supposed to supposed to be doing it. Yeah, you're right. And you might say, Well, okay, then other things. You know that, for example, some how good how healthy, so nice fasting. Now people are talking about an intermittent fasting diet. Now, you might say that that's very effective for weight loss. But did you know also, that intermittent fasting diet assists your neuronal health, it improves your cognition, because it frees something called ketones and ketones that nourish your brain. So it is the benefits that we've been told by Allah and by a prophet. We've been sort of
accepting them as Okay, no, no, but it is true.
And it is becoming writ large upon our lives as Muslims. And this gives me even more enthusiasm to ally with people like yourself and, and I want to shout from the rooftops. Islam is so much the answer,
combining the word learned what Allah has told us go and learn from Western medicine. And now we've done that and we are seeing the results. And I'm only so glad and just feel did I need to spread this message?
inshallah Yeah, well, I was very impressed by your short videos on your YouTube channel. I think it's youtube.com slash c slash Dr. tk Harris. Am I right? Right? If you just look at Dr. tk Harris as one word, or you look at my
Yeah, Dr. tk Harris at one word. So just for those who are watching, what I really liked about it is it's short it's to the point and it's packed with religious lessons. And and you know, that's something that everyone, a lot of people fear visiting psychiatrists or psychologists, because they've been told a few things sometimes, and this is the stigma attached, they've either been told you're gonna get hooked on to medication, this person is going to get you on to the inner, they're going to make matters worse, they're going to cook you, you're going to become dependent on a drug, or you're going to lose your faith all together. So, you know, I find that a person like you, when
you spoke, and when I heard what you had to say, I firmly believed in the message because it did not negate anything that I believe in, in terms of my Islam and my faith in Allah. And at the same time, it helps with that understanding of mental wealth, as you say. So jack, and my family reward you and I pray that you grow from strength to strength. And that's why I decided to dedicate today to you, because by dedicating it to you with it, by extension, we've dedicated it to everyone who was going through any form of mental health issues. And like you said, Every single one of us at some point in our lives, we go through tips in mental health. So Jessica had, I had a sister Tell me, you know, I
can't go through this. It's a divorce my dad, my family won't accept it. And you know, I'd rather commit suicide than to be divorced. And I told a sister, I've known of more than 10,000 cases, in my 20 years of divorces, you're not the first person and you're not going to be the last one. And I know most of those people who have been through divorce have later on gotten married to much better people. Some of them have been divorced twice, and then they say, I'm new meaning this condition I'm in right now has made me forget every difficulty of the past. So I guess that's also part of our last plan. Did you know what how are these one on use a helluva You know, every time there is some
occurrence that's negative, that happens. Allah sends you positives, erase the effects of that negative, like a loving So tell us about your videos. I noticed they're short videos, any reason why they're just about six, seven minutes, I think. Yes, correct. Well, listen, I as you suggested, I was not keen. I'm not a person who caught the public eye. But I might.
Sorry for today, you've done very well, no one would tell that this is the first time you're addressing such a large crowd of people but it's in the comfort of our homes, I guess. So it's very, I'm very well, you can really well I think, you know, your channel is going to be a big hit each other. Well, I hope so if I can get I made a pledge that if I get enough subscribers, then I will release my books for free, because I'm reluctantly charging only because there is no other way. But inshallah, if there's enough subscribers, then we can just get on and help people. And this wealth can be spread around and it should be.
I would encourage everyone who's viewing this to actually go and subscribe on Instagram on YouTube inshallah. And you know, these are short clips, they won't take up more than eight minutes of your time, once every few days listening to how you can develop your mental health, with your religion in mind and as as a focal point. So yeah, does that go ahead for that? So you were saying,
I'm overwhelmed by your generosity, Mufti. Considering how many
you help me something like this, I actually believe in the work you're doing because I've been searching for someone who I'm so comfortable with. In terms of religion, it's very difficult for me to promote someone when it comes to mental health when I don't know what they are, their output would be in terms of connection with Allah and how much they promote it. But the fact that I know that I've been through your work, and it's helped a lot of people and hamdulillah and I know that I did encourage you at one point to say, Hey, we have to get this done. So Alhamdulillah it's it was a good thing. Yes, it was Yes. Prompted it. And well, I'll blame usually
You know, the focus on those few minutes, like the focus, give us a little bit of insight about your videos. Yeah, so So for the first, the first series has been an introduction to the mind. So what I do is just simply, the point of that introduction is to just say, well, psychologically, Islam actually meets science in considering the mind and its different parts, you have the logical part of your mind, which is sort of at your front, frontal lobes. And you've got the emotions, which are sort of at the base of the brain. And then you have your, your conscious self. Now we know that in medicine, you've got these parts of the brain, which often when people say, you know, I was in two
minds about this, or I lost my mind when I heard this, or love is blind. Well, I can tell you why. You know, when you're in two minds about something, it's usually because literally, we are born with kind of two or three minds anyway, we have the battle between the heart and the head, as they say, you know, logically, I didn't want to buy those shoes. But I because they were so expensive, but I couldn't resist, you know what I mean? Because I
I think we've lost we've lost you again for a bit Mashallah. But very, very insightful. And Mashallah, I would recommend the book, both of these books, instant actions, as well as instant insights available on Amazon, please can you go
shala, in his endeavors, and what he's trying to do by the will of Allah, Allah.
So Alhamdulillah, I hope that we can actually
get hold of him once again, I just lost him. So
we've just lost him. If I can get hold of him again, I will, Chairman. So my brothers and sisters, Dr. tk Harris has brought in some very valuable lessons for you and I regarding mental health and how every single one of us at some point, we'll actually be going through challenges in terms of mental health. So remember, it's not too good to have visited a psychiatrist, or a therapist or a counselor, or a psychologist, what we need to know is just made sure that the advice is consistent, and the remedies are consistent with your faith. And mostly it will be very rarely would you find someone actually interfering in your faith. In fact, if anything, it would strengthen your faith. So
remember this, some people say well to visit a psychiatrist is a sign of weakness in faith. That's not true. It's not a sign of weakness in faith, it's actually strength. We ask Allah Subhana
Allah, because if that is going to bring you closer to Allah, and it's going to make you aware of like, what TK Harris was saying moments ago, it's going to it's going to make you closer to Allah subhanho wa Taala, then definitely, it is better for you. And it would
both I was surprised to hear about both the fasting and the prayer, the five daily prayer, how TK Harris said. It's like a lot psychological perspective. It's very, very beneficial. And actually, it would help us in in every way,
in terms of our connection with Allah. Salaam Alaikum. Sorry about that.
Welcome Salaam I'm sorry, my slightly dated phone, as has had trouble with the battery. But I was. Thank you for telling me. I just feel so spoiled now.
Your network had mental health issues?
Well, yes, my networks are unpredictable at best. Let's put it that way. No, the network was fine. I think my phone has has dementia. Let's put it away. Because it's rather
I want to pick on pick up on one of the comments of one of the one of those who've joined us today. They say sujood brings about a lot of peace. Can you comment on sujood? Because you've commented on fasting, you've commented generally on the five daily prayers. Tell us about sujood. Yes.
Well, absolutely wants to do this is very, very important. As part of the procedures of Salah.
I looked into something which is called a claim kinesthetic learning is when you put into action, what you know psychologically. So for example, one of the best examples of kinesthetic learning is when they did an experiment and this was a very tough one. It was between Palestinians and Israelis. And it got random Palestinian civilians and Israeli civilians and they put them in a room and they said okay, talk. Now, clearly this is going to be
potentially a conflict like situation. And then they took another bunch of Palestinians and Israelis except don't sit in a room, go for a walk and talk. And what they found was consistently those people who were walking and talking, found solutions much more readily and those who sat in the room. Now that makes you think well, why? Clearly these people were the same people, what is it that that made one group different to the other. And so Salah is very cleverly engineered because when you are going down putting your head to the ground, when that happens, we know that from mammals, when you put your head to the ground you are submitting if you see it in even even when you see it
in wolves and bears and other creatures, putting their head down means they are submitting. Now, the law tells us put your head down because you're saying even my brain is touching the earth here because I am lowering myself to you. That is very comforting. And we also know this that when you are curled up in servitude, when else in your life you will know this Mufti because it doesn't take much when else in your life where you curled up in,
in the in the wounds of mothers Exactly. When you are in this position, you have made yourself vulnerable and you are ready to be condemned means that is the beauty is the beauty of this video that you are
right now. You know, I actually I you the way you've said it, it's really made me say wow, I'm so proud to be a Muslim. I go into security so often. And so Mashallah, another thing came to my mind all these big conferences of all these big word leaders. I think rather than meeting round a table, they should go for a walk. I shall. Absolutely. So when they say you should have peace talks, no going off and feeling him.
Please.
Okay, so you were saying? Yeah, you were saying sorry to cut what you were saying. You were speaking about how the sujood actually, you know, and that submission and so on?
Yeah, yeah, so actually, that so we have, in effect, when we pray, we have to go through motions as well. Those motions would reinforce our experience of being connected to Allah. It's alright to think about something. It's alright, to actually go through the motions, but when you actually do it, your body believes in it and your thoughts become more focused, and you can reach a state of ecstasy. And as we know from the Prophet sallahu wa sallam and from the most holy, pious people that they can spend so long in sujood and there is no coincidence why they do is because they feel that connection you know, they feel there's something special about that position and and all of July's
precious but sujood especially, perhaps in my mind, I might be wrong or right to me to do this is the king of the of the of the salaah positions. It is it is the pinnacle of your Salah, this video, right?
Yes, yes, actually, you're so right because the Hadith also speaks about a caribou Maya Kunal Abdullah be here who has said it the closest that a slave can be to his master, meaning to Allah subhanho wa Taala to his Lord is in the position of prostration so that position has been highlighted as the best position in terms of closeness to Allah and Allah loves it so much. Do you know I want to share with you a new app that is to be read Institute as well many of us just say Suppan Allah, Allah, which means like Glory be to the Lord, who is my lord who's the highest. And we there is another application such as what he my face has frustrated let me holla to the one who has
made it was a wonderful and fashion did give him its identity. Worship some Abu abasa who and who has a split, open it hearing and split open the eyes so that we can see and hear be hopefully he will overheat by by his power and might fight about a kilo on Halloween. So So Glory be to the Creator who is
Glory be to Allah Who is the best of creators. It's amazing how when I go into studio, and I say that it gives me a different conflict. And you know, another quick thing that I remembered is when I was many times it has happened with non Muslims who have watched us pray and now it's happening more because the world is becoming you know, a smaller village as time passes because of communications and because of technology. So people watch the Muslims pray be it in Mecca, be it anywhere, even just a corner where you're praying in them in the masjid or sorry at the airport or somewhere and they tell you Wow, this is so soothing, so peaceful, you know, so comforting, even when they hear
them for the recitation of the poem has some amazing impact. It soothes the mind
And, you know, it actually helps us. And this is why I said right at the beginning, even before you joined us that, you know,
we need to deal with things in a way that we have a protective, we have a protective layer of people and thoughts and things around us preparing for the day, we're gonna eat that, you know, something, we all suffer loss, for answers, you have to suffer loss, if you haven't suffered loss, it's coming it has to come, someone's going to die, or you've got to die, you have to pay for you and the day against you, it's part of a loss plan, and a loss as well, if you're going to be building your relationship with us. And if you're going to be understanding the rules and regulations we've laid down and follow them, it will cushion it much more, it will cushion it not like you're not going to
go through issues. Like you're not going to have you know, mental health issues and so on. We're human, we have to be affected by but it will help cushion it and remedy it. So and handler that's part of what you're saying, right?
We should write book together well, we if either of the time because what you're saying appears in mind glow with another one other ideas to both reinforce and underline what you said. For example, you said the prayer of the Quran gives a soothing to the mind, I was literally reading something at an article the other day
that looked at eg scans of devotees of Akira so it looked literally at the brain knows we're engaged in pronunciation of the Qurans word what it found was that there was a calming down of the brain, and an increase in some called neuronal efficiency. As a result of praying. These things are physical effects. muslimeen have a way to potentially be the mutant, extremely mentally wealthy, because we have a structure and a way of doing things and wisdom which has been passed to us, which appears to coincide.
A lot of what science is telling us and in fact, I wouldn't even looked into because actually, you know, faith does not require science.
Science might need faith. Faith does not require science. So every time I say, well, science has proved it. I'm not trying to hold faith up to some kind of standard going Oh, because science that it is true. Actually. It's the other way around. You know, trade has always said it signs around to latrine. I've got to confess, I'm going to confess something to everyone here that is quite, it might be a surprise and it might not be surprised.
Whenever I'm going through a day where I'm feeling a bit low, or whenever I'm feeling a little bit sad. And like I said, we're all humans we do go through that people say you're so positive all the time, probably don't see my the times when I perhaps have a little bit sad or going through a low you know, I call it a low profit is by listening to the recitation of the Quran being recited so someone like Susan Isa of Idris is very, very soothing. Some of what rather couldn't be reached. As some of you know different recitals have different risks. reciters
actually, Sue me. So you might have one researcher, but not all of his recitation is of the same level of suiting my own recitation, I actually put it in the one from salado federal, because I mean, even in the masjid, the one from salado and federal columns me much more than any other time of the day. And I would put it into my ear and listen to it. And, you know, the words would come me and at the same time, the tone, the intonation, and it just feels so you start smiling, you know, it's just amazing. So that's how I remedy myself and that's how I feel so boosted and, you know, rejuvenated once again, so I guess everyone's got a few things they do. Some people make it worse by
going into that, which they think is going to help them but it's actually making matters worse, such as those who resort to pornography, perhaps alcohol, perhaps, you know,
what can I say those things, I mean, they, they they they appear to present a solution.
But actually, they might present traction for a few minutes. But then what happens is to let comes your wisdom comes back and you find yourself wracked with guilt. Yeah, what do you self Alhamdulillah? You know, I'm so one of the things that I think
a lot of people enjoy about you is because you are relatable and you are able to test that you know, you have bad days and good days. But can I tell you this one story that you need to describe how used by the son of the son of the Quran, I know of a couple of patients of mine who happened to be Muslim. And they described we know the around that happened, they weren't particularly practicing a huge
Before, I didn't encourage them, necessarily because when I practiced it was in a secular way. I wasn't supposed to sort of infer my own value, but they came. And they said, You know what, when I went to the masjid, and I put my head to the ground, something changed. And when I heard the Quran somehow, live life, as a way, if you have a faithful heart, will give you the solutions you discovered, move to yourself that you know, when I'm feeling down, this appears to be helping I can say, Well, I feel so blessed because I can tell you why that's no Mashallah, you know, one last thing also connected to this is when, you know, when you hear nature, the sound of birds, the sound
or some sounds, sometimes you go out and you see the greenery, you see the lake or the river nature, it really helps. Can you actually let us know how that helps? And why it helps?
Yes, well, it appears to be a quite a direct, almost at the DNA of influence that when you place an individual, and again, if we were to do an experiment to say okay, well, there's two people are undergoing amount of stress
walk around in the streets here
and let one go into the future. There are cues that we get from nature which appear to have been put there right into us. So for example, you go near people say, you know, white noise makes me feel comfortable white noise now, if people investigated What is it about white noise? This sort of, you know, when and what we find actually, where that comes from, is from running water. So when you if you are near running water or a waterfall, white nose is cutting, and we might say well, okay, why might that be? Well, when you think about it, when we were not civilized when Allah Allah saw us, roaming around in groups,
many 1000s of years ago, he taught us that being near to was good for our survival.
It was probably water, it was probably full of fish. Therefore, he planted in us the running water, he implanted in us the need to be in amongst nature.
Because compared to somebody who was tribe, a tribe a is out in the plants and the trees and the IP is set in a cave, guess with going to survive better. The one that is Allah gave us the lines he taught us, and it's at a level that we don't know about.
Thank you so much for joining us today. And it was really insightful, Mike, the whole aim is to just get the people focused upon something that is not to do, it doesn't make you a mad person. And if you're going through any form of mental health issues, we're here to talk about it and to empower you in Sharla. And like the like TJ Harris said earlier, that everyone everyone at some point in their lives, we'll go through some form of debt when it comes to mental health. So inshallah you can follow him on Instagram, Dr. tk Harris, just one whole word, Dr. tk Harris, and even on on YouTube, if you search for that, you can follow him he's got some lovely videos, and he has two books that
you can buy from Amazon. I would really recommend that I don't usually do this but there is always an exception. So May Allah bless you. Thank you so much for your time this evening. And for everyone who joined us and I will be posting this video inshallah. So there's a common law
Okay, that was Mashallah Dr. tk Harris. We had a good discussion and what I loved about it now I'm sure you guys can see that the marriage between you know the religious aspect and the medical aspect and the fact that we're not compromising our Deen yet we're getting medical help. And that's what is was intriguing and is impressive to me. That's the reason why I want to talk to TK Harris Jazakallah Hey guys. Salaam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh