Childhood, Apartheid, Riba, Rizk and so much more!

I want to tell you something. In a sense, we talk about money, the biggest note we've ever gotten to is $100 trillion. Allah wants you to share your wealth with others. And that's the reason why he gave you more. If you look at the Islamic system, it wouldn't even allow you to make money out of speculation. Look at the credit crunches that have happened in the number of suicides that have taken place as a result of people who've lost their belongings. I think one of the biggest lessons was to respect everyone. It was very bad in the sense that, you know, based on your skin color, you're allowed in certain areas and you're not allowed in certain to live and to work and so on. And

I sent a message to say, please do not penalize, excuse them, forgive them. What's important is as I grew up, we were fearful of scholars. There was definitely a gap. I was going to follow medicine and I wanted to be an ophthalmologist. I felt so proud that day of the OMA, I said Subhanallah Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah and welcome to another episode of the Muslim money experts. Our next guest needs no introductions from flying on jetpacks, dropping out of planes to inspiring a generation of Muslims. Mufti Ismail make has done it all. It was amazing to hear from him about his early life, about jetpacking. Actually, his view on wealth, and the Muslim economy and our interactions with

social media. This was a really thought provoking episode, one that is filled with gems on how we can become better Muslims in today's society, how we can create a true Islamic economy and the best ways we can manage our time in a digital world. I really hope you enjoy it, of the Islamic market, the labor market rally calm was Salam wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Welcome to the Muslim money experts podcast it's a genuine honor to have you mashallah Xochimilco, the honor is mine Baraka latika. So we're going to be asking you a series of questions in Sharla but we want to go back and we want to rewind back and find out about how before with the make became a female, so back in

Zimbabwe, your childhood Can you tell us a bit more about childhood, what interested you and how things while growing up so it depends how far you want to go back. You know,

when you were many make

sure my father was an imam in the main Masjid there. And I was born in the compound of the masjid meaning when my parents were living in the compound of the Masjid. So I come from a relatively religious home, conservative Hamdulillah. And as I grew older, because my father was teaching Quran, and Arabic and a few other things

we picked up on that I remember when I was a very little kid, and they were people who used to come to do the heifers and so on. I picked up the Quran and some of the passages and I'd memorized them as a little kid. And people were very impressed to say, well, this little child is reading.

There was an uncle who used to give me a little bit of money, a cent every time I read something, little kids.

And then as we grew older, I started, you know, the School of grade one to the British system,

grade one to seven we have. And together with that, I did my hip as well. And I studied Arabic language very early. So by the time I finished with primary school, I was completed my wife.

In fact, it was almost completed my wife and I had relative knowledge of the Arabic language, it wasn't, you know, absolutely perfect or anything. And I'd already studied quite a bit of

Islam, like I would have been able to answer a lot of questions at that time, and I was still a kid graduating from primary school, went into what we call form one or grade eight, according to some.

And

then I diversified a little bit more. I used to go to school in the morning. We had sports activities in the afternoon, and in the evenings I was with my father. And studying the books and learning we used to travel to the it's a 10 minute journey to the

madrasa that he had established. And mashallah, there was a lot that happened, and before I knew it, I had found myself in Madina Munawwara I'd completed my own levels.

And subhanAllah. You know, it was a journey that Elijah chosen, being in Zimbabwe, like as far as more of the population Muslims is quite low is it is 1% And it's not so many. Well, it's more than 1% but, you know, the official figures put it at 3% because the population of Zimbabwe is something that's unique. There are so many Zimbabweans outside of Zimbabwe, starting with South Africa, probably a million or more. And there are so many here in the UK and now

elsewhere

it's quite difficult to say this is the population but Alhamdulillah the last census that they had they put the Muslims at 3% So mashallah that's close onto a million Muslims and the Muslims in Zimbabwe with the way would you say? Are they ethnically local? quite diverse? Yes. So from the 3% 95% are locals mashallah I guess and generally below the poverty line.

A small percentage are actually ethnic indo packs, there's, uh, you know, some Arabs, ethnically, Lebanese and Yemeni, and so on. But predominantly, mostly locals. And like I said, they live in the rural areas and various other parts of the country, many of them were farm workers and mine workers, laborers, and so on. And their, their progeny is Muslim, and Alhamdulillah. They're, obviously they need a lot of assistance. For many reasons the country came crashing with the financial woes that we had

in the early 2000s. And subhanAllah, it resulted in so many people struggling to make ends meet, I don't think anyone died of hunger for the simple reason that it's very, very fertile the land. So people like we would just plant our own things to this day, if you come to my house, the backyard, you will always see vegetables and fruits and a few other things that are growing, and we make so to say people died, I think that was a little bit stretched. Yeah. While you were growing up in in Zimbabwe, like what was the biggest lesson you were taught as a child, whether that be from your parents, you said your father was quite influential as well, siblings, teachers, I think one of the

biggest lessons was to respect everyone. It's something that shaped me to who I am today. Respect everyone. And it does not mean that you agree with them. That's something that a lot of people fail to learn. As they grow older, they think if you disagree with someone, you hate them. And if you disagree with someone, you've got to think of ways of bringing them down. But no, if you can disagree with someone and respect them completely, Look, I respect you, you're a human being you have a right in your own way, your capacity, that's called given to make decisions and so on, and you've chosen different from me, with that disagreement, I respect you fully. So that's something

I've learned from a very young age, that's a really good lesson as well, because there are so many differences. But if we concentrate on what's common on the law, we can, I think there's something I could add to that is because we grew up in a multicultural, multi religious community, you know, society, the schools, I went to a predominantly Christian, and a small number of Muslims and Jews and few others. And so we interacted quite well. And we, from that young age, you realize, and you learn that, you know, these are the people I went to school with, and so on. So it builds you in that direction was a part either an issue in Zimbabwe the way it was in South Africa, yes, there was

apartheid up to 1980. And literally, it was very bad in the sense that, you know, based on your skin color, you're allowed in certain areas, and you're not allowed in certain to live and to work and so on. And at certain times, if your color is this, then you're not allowed in certain times out and you're allowed and so on. It all changed in not just pre 1980 When independence happened from Britain, and

then the barriers were being broken, slowly but surely, there was the name change then as well to be yes, the name change in 1980 is sometime in 79. It used to be Rhodesia, and then it changed from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe Rhodesia, and then it changed to Zimbabwe. Now, being a mufti, right, we hear the term of develop, people don't know what that actually entails. What does that entail? So globally, there's a few types of movies that you could have.

In my case, a person appointed by the National of the national body of Muslims to lead the Department of fatwa of issuing religious edits. So I became the Mufti

and like I said, it is part of the main or one of it's the biggest Islamic body that is a national body.

However,

you know, sometimes when it's a Muslim country, you have the government that comes in to appoint someone as the Mufti of the country. And they have a committee of minorities as well. So that would also be the title Mufti.

And then in some schools of thought, when you study beyond a certain point, they qualify you or, you know, you graduate as a person who's qualified to issue religious edits. So they call you Mufti. So there is all of that. Now, is there anything else that you're interested in growing up? Um, as in if you want more of the, do you think you would have done something else instead? Yes, I in fact, I was going to follow medicine and I wanted to be an ophthalmologist. It was always my dream. And I was working in that direction.

And because I'd studied Islam so much and I was already a half of the Quran and I was an imam in the masjid from the age of 14

used to lead taraweeh and mashallah, I enjoyed it, because I know that

I had memorized the Quran and it was quite we use the term solid, you know, in the sense that it was the hip was okay, people.

I'd like to think that some of the people would actually be frightened to correct me simply because they would be surprised this man's made a mistake, you know, as we grew older, and our memory became a little bit rusty, you know, it's it changes but initially, and

I wanted to become an ophthalmologist. But

when I graduated from, or after my oh levels, I applied to a certain Academy in the States. And

at the same time, my, my father, had had some guests over at home from Saudi Arabia who were involved with the faculty of Arabic language in Saudi Arabia. And without even my consent, they had he gave my name into say, Okay, this is my son, and whatever. And in a few months time, they had an acceptance that came in through the post for me to study in Medina. And I remember looking at my father and saying, Well, this thing has come, they sent an airline ticket and everything together. He says, Look, I think this is something you know that a lot of Mighty is planned for you that this thing came in, at this particular time. Go go and see what it's all about, you know, give it your

best. And if you really, you don't want a new, you can either come back or you can complete this and continue with whatever you want to do after that. So I ended up, you know, going to Madina, Munawwara and who doesn't love Medina being a Muslim? Fell in love with the place and yes, with the challenges that were there Al Hamdulillah remained and hamdullah did quite well, I'd say. Although every student of knowledge would always say that I wish I used my time more productively while I was a student.

But too late in the day but yeah, mashallah, so someone say that your vision was changed for you?

Or just

mostly, I think it's now we live in a time where you can have unfettered access to people digitally at least or now handler with the conferences, etc. Allah bless you for honestly, your grueling schedule. You know, honestly, it's that one time it seems in your so many places, and we know what it's like for you being on the road like this Mufti.

But at the same time, you know, this concept of the Haber of the chef, this, you know, having this or reverence for, you know, our scholars, it's hard, we balance the two because on one side, mashallah, you're so accessible, and you're so I don't like to use the term normal. But you know, people don't see this side too much. Like, we see you jumping out of planes or riding unicycles, etc. I think what's important is, as I grew up, we were fearful of scholars, there was definitely a gap, we couldn't really talk to them because out of respect, if you had an issue, you couldn't even raise it because you would be fearing to be judged and you would be

scared literally. And I thought to myself, as I studied the deen, that Insha Allah, I'd like to change this. Now, this is where it all comes from. I'm a normal human being. I've had an upbringing, I went to normal schools, we played rugby and whatever else we cricket, swimming, you name it, we went to good schools and Hamdulillah. And

then what I felt is there needs to be different categories of scholars where it's okay if some are just considered, okay, this is a cool guy, at least you can approach the person. At the same time. We also need some of those who are a little bit more maybe strict if I can say that you feel uneasy. Just saying Hey, yo, what's up, you know, with them because of that. So what it does when you have a cross section of scholars, and this is why I respect those who, who have just chosen

One path of stubbornness and strictness.

It gives different categories of people the opportunity to come to Allah subhanho wa taala. I think in today's world, the vast majority of people would prefer an accessible scholar. And as they grow and become practicing, they, they, they would move on to someone who's a little bit stricter. But they didn't realize that the beginning was with someone like myself. And this is why I have always said to my friends that you know what,

I try to aim at those who are not Muslim, those who are not practicing Muslim, those who are weak Muslims are struggling to practice, the minute they begin to practice, the first thing they will do is they will refute you, and they will go on to someone else, not realizing that, but that was part of the plan, you know, you can excuse them for that. It's fine, but they don't realize

we had to be covering the different gaps that we found in the data.

The biggest one, the biggest one is that initial step that needs to be taken, which scholar is going to help those type of people such that when they look at that person, they feel okay, this one I can relate to. That's where it all happens. So I've intentionally designed it in a way that some of these activities are shown to the public. People say, Why did you have to show it's okay, I know what I'm doing. I did it for Dawa. Not necessarily for fun.

I have fun in the process. But when people see that, okay, wow, this has happened. Number one, they say I want to do that as well. That's fine. But that's a small number of people, but the others, they develop a little

connection with you, because they you are normal, you're approachable. I would intentionally play with kittens, not because I love them or something. But yes, we do have a connection that's developed over time with kittens and with animals, but you play with the key because there are so many people out there who's who are so close to their pets, and they would feel that scholars won't understand this relationship that we have with these pets, you know, and then when they see you with a pet, they feel okay, this is it, you know, and they will probably listen to a little bit more of what you have to say, until inshallah they can be helped to becoming a little bit more practicing.

So the same applies to most of the other things that we see. I remember with the hoverboard initially, my intention was this. And that's why I learned and that's why I did and that's why I posted as strange as it might sound. But there it goes. So if people say, Oh, this guy is a stray, it's fine. You can keep saying that you're excused, because you don't understand what we're doing. It's fine. It's not your field. And I think that's a minority that say that because I think what you mentioned there about relatability, like, when we were growing up, and we saw a movie, they were like, oh, it's mostly like you're scared immediately, is somebody that's not reachable, somebody

that's not relatable, you can't really connect with that person. Now, when we see yourself humbler, doing things that we do say, okay, I can listen to him, and I can actually relate to him. So he will understand me, let's practice completely. And I hope that if there's anyone watching or listening this their advice, generally, handlers Bless me to spend time with a lot of different mache, and yourself has been with the years, you know, as accessible as you are, I think, for us is still the onus to still have that level of respect. Hamdulillah, you know, you know, it's very difficult because I like to be very accommodating. And, you know, boys and girls, no matter who they are, we

have to acknowledge them, we have to greet them, we have to respect them, of coming from who we are, because at the end of the day, they should not look at you as a person who's arrogant, you have an Amana with you. And the aim is to deliver that message and you will not be able to deliver it if you think that there is absolutely no connection between you and the people you're supposed to deliver it to. So therefore, I will be very polite and very realistic. That is something I have trained myself to do over the years. Be realistic, you know, if I see, for example, a sister walk past,

obviously, depending on who it is, and what the circumstances are, and where you are, and so on and so forth. You know, I would probably be a person number one, I wouldn't have an expression on my face, that would be scary in the sense that, you know, you're smiling or you have a decent expression in case she has a need or something she'd rather you know, get help from you than from some other strange person who's not even perhaps on the deed. And secondly, if need be, you know, you may want to acknowledge by a greeting Salam Alaikum Alaikum salam, it's fine. It may you may or may not, like I said, it's all dependent on the circumstance, you know, and it's

all dependent on what's where it is and what's going on. But that's me, that's me. And I wouldn't like to change that. Because I know what has happened as a result of that. I know how people have come and how they have even said that, listen, it helped us it changed our perspective, it made us

jump leaps and bounds in our faith, it restored the it restored that faith in the religious people that we were losing, or have lost, and so on Hamdulillah you have this approach to everything and

you're not immune to criticism, it has your fair share, find joy.

And life is never easy. I think I've never met a single person in this world whose life is completely using those challenges. Well, Hamdulillah, you have this cheery disposition of the that, when we see you, it likes our days up as well. Hamdulillah. And you just mentioned now that you'd like to be approachable?

How do you keep yourself in that state? How what advice would you give to others as well, who are going through challenges to still maintain this, you know, positive approach, primarily, everything comes from Allah. Once you are set in that belief, nothing will deter you. And no matter what happens, you believe that it was something positive. When someone criticizes you. Today, I received a message of someone who actually

said something that was inappropriate and wrong, unfortunately, and they were going to be penalized by

someone else to say, Why did and I sent a message to say, please do not penalize excused them forgive them? And they don't know any better. And let's leave it be. Because there's no point in doing that. And I made peace with it. I really, and I've once told a certain person that look, if you ever need to speak about me again, please do so it's fine. As long as it's me, not someone else. Because you're excused. I really, it's, I am sometimes baffled at how forgiving I've become full, you know, towards people who have personally attacked me. But I think Allah that he's allowed me to get to a point where he can just love it. And I say it's fine. It's okay. I don't even want an

apology, I don't need an explanation. And whatever the only fear is, when someone publicly attacks you, I'll give you an example. Sometimes you do something, you say something. And then you have people who publicly attack you. And it goes to show that they probably don't think that let's solve this matter. Rather, they just want to swipe. If I see a group of boys and girls doing something wrong, I'm a father. Number one.

I'm a grandfather as well. And, and I also very young with the normal. And and I also have

worked with community, I will look at these young boys and girls who are doing something wrong and unacceptable as my own kids. And I will ask myself, What should I do to solve this matter to empower them to educate them so that they become responsible, and they don't repeat this, and then I will deal with it. And it's very different from how the normal layman would deal with it. Who hasn't even thought that these are all kids, they would cancel them, write them off, perhaps come up with something drastic, they will say nasty things they will go on the public and make a mockery of these people, turning them further away from the dean and they think they doing them a favor. Do you

really care for the OMA? Do you care for the people around you when they've made the mistake? You need to be the father figure you need to be the mother figure you need to be at the mercy you know the person who's teaching you need to come to them and say Listen, my son, this is not appropriate. And we get this from the Hadith where the man came in and urinated in the masjid the Prophet sallallahu Sallam told him listen, you know what, she does not feel ping as beautifully as that, you know, we're also finding at the same time Hamdulillah that Muslims are becoming more influential generally online and they're becoming more famous. MashAllah SAF sitting next to me SuperSaf he's

got almost 2 million subscribers on YouTube, I shall live

from the law. And even in scholarship, mashallah there was now you start seeing speakers like yourself and other, the art handler rising in the ranks, etc.

The advice what advice would you give? Is social media, a tool we should engage in? Or is there some sort of approach to it you'd give now that you've been in it for a while with the I think we have no option. We're living in an age where social media is a part of our lives, whether we like it or not. I think initially in the early ages of a person's life, infancy childhood, they should be restricted to a degree based on their intellect and based on their surroundings and the environment they live in. It's not like we're going to ban them until a certain

Ah, but it's more like, yes, at a certain age, we will allow them supervised access to social media. And that can be in many different ways. But

as you grow older, you need to be responsible social media has, it's a double edged sword, you know, and we need to know that you can use it for something really good. I mean, people have made a living out of it. And businesses have used it in order to be able to sell their products and so many other things. I, for one, have learned so much about the world, through social media, and so many different things. We need to also know how to restrict ourselves regarding what we watch, and, you know, the algorithms and so on. I remember, on my YouTube channel, for example, we had blocked quite a lot of the adverts that we whatever we could, and then there was a certain brother who came in and

said, Listen, I saw this, and it was quite outrageous. And then we found no, it was supposed to be blocked, you know. And then I found that YouTube has an algorithm that actually looks into how the end user uses YouTube as well. So it's not just you. So on my side, I've blocked it. Now, if you see anything, it's you.

See, so that's very true. Yeah. So so people don't realize that they can't blame us to say, but I haven't seen those ads. We've blocked those adverts, but because of your usage of it. So getting back to what we were seeing.

As you develop and people begin to follow you people follow for different reasons. I'd like to think a large number of people follow silly things. Something that's just a laugh, something that's funny, something that's naughty, something that's perhaps outrageous as well.

So we need to be careful, because not everyone who's famous is actually famous for the right reasons.

It doesn't mean Oh, wow, that person is trending that person, you know, you get excited, but if they are famous, it's a responsibility, very big responsibility. With myself, I always try to downplay the fact that I've got so many million people who follow and so on. Um, someone told me the other day that the different variations of hashtags of mine on Tik Tok have had more than 3 billion views.

And I quickly checked it, and I said, Oh, wow, I didn't even realize this was the case. But it's fine, because I don't really have many followers on Tiktok. Because obviously, the account is semi inactive. Today, someone was telling me, let's activate it, let's do something. It's a big platform. It's a big, and I'm considering it. The only thing stopping me is time. I don't have the time. I really, I finally have a small team of people doing things for me. But I still don't have the time. I think it's very time consuming. And people are doing a wonderful job posting mufti, mink things and whatever else. And there's some criticism as well, which is healthy. Not to say I always take

the criticism in a positive light, I look at it and I tell myself, is it right what they're saying? If it is, I will affect some change? If it is not, excuse them. And that's it. Sometimes you get a chance to reply. And sometimes you don't. But the responsibility that comes with being famous people look at you, they look up to you, they want to mimic you, they want to follow they want to

the other day, someone said I'm one of your followers, and I said we all follow the Prophet Salas, obviously, what I mean is that, you know, so I said social media terms, they've coined the term follower. It just means I'm interested in knowing what you put online. That's what it means. Not necessarily, you don't even know me, you can't really be a follower. But that's the term that's used, we have a great responsibility. And I think we should not take things too seriously that we see online a lot of the times, especially with the advent of artificial intelligence, it's very tricky. It's become so tricky. Just today, I had a person telling me that, you know, when you need

to have a little

secret code or secret word between you and your loved ones, where if you're in distress, and you call they would actually that would be the word. Yeah. Because there are people who are calling loved ones of others with their voices and claiming that they need money and they need so on and they're stuck in some other place. And they do they swear that that's the person. I mean, I heard an AI version of what of something I was supposedly said. And I was baffled when I say this, and then I realized what it wasn't me, man, you know, if I could fool you your own voice and who was yes, it fooling me myself. I mean, come on with my own voice and I say someone sounds exactly like me. It's

it. No, this is A I. It's getting better and better. They've done full podcasts of people. Like say for example, it was yourself. Yeah, but it would not be using your voice and your mouth.

Moving in everything and you're just showing. So you said it's getting better and better because that's your field I'm seeing, it's getting worse. And Wallace, because there comes a time when the Prophet sallallahu sallam said that truth and falsehood will not be able to be distinct or will not be distinguished by the people where falsehood will be considered true. And vice versa. I think we're living in that age. I mean, I see things people see things and they think this is the truth. And it's not it's a lie. It's a fabrication. It's total fabrication. Someone said, the AI is the job because it's got one eye on AI. That's good.

It's scary, it's scary. The way technology is moving so fast. It's we don't know what's going to be around the corner and how consumed we are with social media. Yes, I can tell you one quick thing that's come to my mind, being a popular figure is actually more of a punishment at a certain point, because you cannot do anything you cannot, you got to sit quietly in one corner and have your meal, you got to come out and do things are lonely all on your own, because people make a big hype. And this is why we tell people don't make a hype. When you see a famous person, give them some space, you want to greet them from a distance, or you want to have a quick handshake or depending on where

you are and what's happening, especially if they're with family or their eating or something respect that. Sometimes people are ridiculously, you know, well, let's not say ridiculous, but sometimes they're overexcited. And in that excitement they forget, I was walking into one event, and we were we were trying to get to the end they were 1000s of people and one person says Can I take a picture? Can I take big picture? And I looked at his face? And I told him brother, it's a little bit unreasonable right here. Don't feel bad. But I think he did feel bad. But then what can you do? This is the thing trying to strike that balance, because people obviously looking forward to seeing you.

And I think one of the things that you notice now is we have that celebrity culture because people are used to that from the mainstream media nowadays, we see that. And this happens. Yes. And I can tell you about myself, I've never sought to be famous people say Oh, this guy this have never sought to be famous. It happened. I'd like to think obviously, it's the will of Allah. It's a big responsibility. But it's decades, two decades, more than two decades of hard work. I mean, I've spoken to people who look my age. And they tell me, I have been listening to you since I was young. And I look at them, I say, Well,

I've grown up listening to you, yes, they tell you this, but then you realize that you know what, it's been consistent for years on end. So there is hard work. And then you also get young guys who are either students of knowledge or scholars who come up and say, This guy is just this, they don't realize how old you are. They don't realize how hard you've been working for decades. And they don't realize that a guy like me, I mean, if I can just say to you, we've used our own resources, in many, in most cases, I'd like to think, to get things done.

And it's just amazing how people think, Oh, you're making a killing out of this whole thing. It's not true. That's not true at all. I think, especially in social media, because I'm so involved in it, one of the things you realize is people, you know, we've talked about relatability, right? And then people can relate to, but also with social media, it's like, oh, I can just DM of the right now. I can be himself, it's just becomes there's no barrier anymore. Before it used to be like if there was a celebrity they'd be not reachable. So you'd be like, okay, they're open now it seems like Oh, I could do this. And yes, you can and Inshallah, if you put the time in and you know, if

you want to become a mufti, for example, you can do that. But you don't see the background of how much work and hours and days and sacrifices you've made to be able to come to this point. So how I deal with that is,

before I used to feel very, very hurt, that I was unable to respond to everyone, but now I've I've made peace with Allah subhanaw taala in the sense that I feel I do live Allah, you can live long enough Sunday Llosa, Allah does not burden you with more than you can cope with.

I feel I, I can do this, I'm going to do this, I can respond to 10 messages or respond to 10, the 11th, one drop, and it's one of those things, if we can give priorities to some like it's a follow up thing or something you've been involved in, it's a different scenario. But you have to understand as a human, you are not accountable. For every single message that came to you to respond it. It's humanly impossible, it would need a lifetime. So I've got 200 responsibilities in the day, for example, one of them is to respond to messages, for example, which platform you're going to have to choose and you're going to have to choose what to do and how much so you leave it maybe that's

something good for the AI

there is

somebody's actually put it up. Yeah. And I don't know how effective it is or how accurate it is, but I don't

No, I don't know if I could actually say that I support it because it could be very dangerous. You know, we talk about the criticism and the kind of becoming more well known. And often the discussions I have with people who criticize and a whole range of people is, well, what's the alternative? And I say this as a parent. Now, when I look at my children, who would I rather, they were following because you, you can't remove something without creating a void. And then they're complaining at the same time? Well, it's easy to go down, you know, a rabbit hole when you start going up to social media. And if there's reminders that coming up, etc, or we don't have events

where Muslims can come and attend, get some benefit, and also socialize, would you want that completely removed? What's the alternative? I think different people are on different levels. So a person who's on a higher level of piety, we'll never understand why you have a massive event, for example, on a night, like the 27th night, but the fact that it's fully sold out, and so many people and most of them are young, who come in, it shows that if these people were not there, they not all of them. But if a lot of these people were not there, they may not have used that night in any form of productivity whatsoever. So are we going to just stop everything simply because the pious people

are telling us, you know, what, why are you doing this, and they are not experts in the field of Dawa. And this is one thing that I, whenever you hear pious people say, Oh, this was bad. And that happened. And this happened. And I always tell myself, these guys are not experts. But we are the experts, we know what's happened, we make sure that we will tie all loose ends possible. And we learn from experience, and we develop over time, but we will make available, whatever we can on all levels and categories. And that's why earlier I said that, the scholars were a little bit harder, they're also needed, the ones whom you feel a gap from, they're also needed. And then you have the

cool guys, you know.

So the same applies in the field, that all these are dependent on the level of the individual. And we should never forget that every one is on a different level. I love and care for the one on the lowest level as much as I would the one on the highest level, I've seen that for my own expenses, I can just say working in the corporate sector, you see running Muslim networks. You know, sometimes if the practicing as a practicing person, we have echo chambers, when you're dealing with the people, the type of issues they'd have, like is so far removed from the discussions we'd have in our religious circles, that you don't know the Hall of people. And even just a little reminder, they

hold on to that. The only time they even go to pray perhaps is a need. And, you know, sometimes it feels like maybe we're pushing these people away most of these I really do understand your approach the world out there is such that if you were to not pay attention to them, they would probably turn away completely. So any form of attention that you pay to them and you offer them some form of a platform that they feel comfortable with in a non judgmental yeah, there's a difference between giving advice and judging that's a topic on its own, but a non judgmental welcome them, they are our brothers, they are our sisters. Like I said earlier, I've specialized in reaching out to non

practicing non Muslim as well as the weak those who are struggling to practice and so on. And when it you're practicing, move on, you can hold yourself to the highest standard, but doesn't mean you have to apply that others exactly meaning you must be understanding of the fact that everyone is different. They go through different challenges, they've been through different upbringings. They face things if you hear a quarter of what they faced, you probably will drown in in your, in your mind, you know, you know when you hear the term walking in somebody else's shoes, like you don't know, the challenges we've a lot of us have been blessed, you know, with maybe coming from

practicing homes. So then we've already had that. And not everybody has that advantage. So absolutely, absolutely. We were talking about fame. And you know, this is something that a lot of people do. aspire to have, you know, a lot of

youngsters now want to become sportsmen because they want to be famous. How can people be famous but still hold on tight to their mind over key advice? I think there's two things there. One is if we want to become something in order to be famous for me as a person who studied theology and religion, I think it's a bit flawed where the fame would come because you performed well or you did something dedicatedly over years but before you've even started you're aiming there, people have done it and they've achieved as well but for a person who's connected to the Almighty even in the slightest, we should be a little bit more humble than that. And we should allow it to happen inshallah organically

however, that having been said, you know, that fame

beam that comes again.

It's really a great responsibility. People think, okay, it's going to be nice. It's going to be easy. I'm going to be a famous person. Not at all. Not at all. Once you're there, you realize, you know what, I wish that I wasn't this popular, this famous.

May Allah make it easy. I mean, it's an interesting point. You mentioned that because recently, we've seen a lot of famous people, you know, recently, the likes of Andrew Tate, who have accepted Islam as well. What do you why do you think that is in this particular time, because, yes, they have everything, they might have money, they've got fame, but there's still something missing isn't there, I think there is something missing the contentment. And you know, that holistic sort of life that we'd like to live, it's not just only about money, and that that's one aspect of it, what Islam does, it doesn't shun any of those aspects, but it gives you proportion, that you want money, well,

this is the portion, don't forget your loads. So it's not wrong to earn on condition that you put your load first and your money second. So all of that is good, but when the load is missing, you've got zero.

You know, like, I tell people, you can have your wealth. If you've got Allah in your life, give yourself a one, write one. If you've got wealth, add a zero to that. If you've got health, add another zero to that if you've got fame, add a zero to that add, add zeros and keep so it becomes 1000 10,000 100,000. It's 1 million, and you can get up to whatever. But remove the first one, it's zero. No matter what you have of the rest is zero. So people will turn to the deen of Allah. The reason why Islam I'd like to think is appealing and it's on the rise. Firstly, it's the first time in our recent history, maybe we could say in the history of mankind, that there is such

accessibility to the true teachings of Islam. Yeah, globally. Yes, I do know there are a lot of people who tarnish the image of Islam, a lot of people who have said wrong things and trying to actually portray Islam as a faith, that is not the way it's supposed to be. But if you want to search the truth from the horse's mouth, from the sources themselves, meaning the people who are Muslim, you would definitely be left in all.

As a person who might have been hearing negatives all their lives, here's your opportunity. You've now interacted with people you can listen, you can see you have access on your phone, you won't you see clips of it starts off with clips, then it becomes videos of people who have or Muslim who are telling you about how they live in their lives and their content and their happiness and their worship of Allah and the discipline. And what beautiful outcome there is of implementing the discipline in your life is something very, very appealing. It's difficult to say, You got to pray five times a day, you got to dress this way. You got to do that where you got to stay away from this

fool, you got to stay away from that you can't do this, you can't do that. It's difficult for anyone who hears that might think, Oh, wow, the minute you you find the result of having disciplined yourself on those particular aspects of your life, how you fall in love with it. So this is the reason why you find a lot of guys turning to Islam, and I do admit that at the moment, it's on a high Subhanallah and what has happened is guys who are popular those who looked up to them in their jaw Helia

Woodson suddenly at least think about looking into what's termed this person here. That is a Dawa on its own that could result in the, you know, Jana for the person who, who was initially a juggler, you know, or in the Joe Hillier with the whole purpose of this podcast is for Muslim money experts. We like to engage and educate our audience, around navigating all things financial, as Muslims and even non Muslims as well and people of no faith. So before we get into that, it'd be good to get from yourself Mufti. What is the Sharia? The Sharia is a set of laws derived from or it's a law derived from the Quran and Sunnah. And generally, the Islamic teachings and it is, it is a way of

life. It has

a penal code and it has a set system of

it's like a whole Constitution of how you should lead your life in order to please the Almighty and at the same time guaranteeing you ultimate success in this world and the next. So as much as it may sound. People think Sharia and the first thing they think is chopping hands and stoning people, but the Sharia it governs the entire financial sector.

Qatar in a way that is so unique that the failings of today's economic laws

have have forced men to look into alternatives. And they have definitely found that the Islamic teachings and that's why they call it Islamic banking, so to speak, and Islamic finance and so on, is definitely not just a force to be reckoned with, but it's a working mechanism. And to be honest with you,

that is probably one great chunk of the Sharia. It's got to do with your earnings and your halal and haram and so on, you know, your food and drink. A part of the Sharia is to do with your

is to do with your relationship with your maker. Another part has to do with your relationship with other human beings, your marriage, your divorce, and so how it will be how it will not be all that is part of the Sharia. So that's definitely that's what's referred to as the Sharia in general. It's an entire way of life set of rules and regulations. Yes, quite disciplined. But indeed, the fruits are unmatched. I love the way you connected. What we do here, with our destination in the Hereafter, surely enables us to get there. And I think that's important because money is one of those things that it's easy to overcome people in that pursuit of money, etc. And we're going to perhaps talk

about Riba and some of these rules. But I think it's always important even in the Quran, Allah azza wa jal when he talks before he goes into the rules of Riba, he actually speaks about charity. Yes, and it will be good to hear what should a an individual's relationship be with charity? Is it about the recipient of the donor, you know, charity, in Islam, is a gift of the Almighty to us, Had Allah wanted, he would, he would have not created a need in anyone's life for anyone besides Him.

And He is the giver, but he's put in a system where there's going to be a need that is going to be witnessed by those who are not so much in that need. And what are you going to do as a result, so we opened the door of a worship known as charity.

If you are charitable, it's a sign of compassion towards the person or the cause. And if you're going to give you consider yourself fortunate to have firstly witnessed the cause, or the need, and secondly, been given the acceptance, to use your money in or your wealth or whatever else, it may be in the right direction. So that the charity as such is a gift from Allah Almighty. The I've always said that the wealthier person should always consider himself fortunate to have been used to, you know, to give in a certain cause, because a day will come. And it's a sign of the AMA mentioned by the prophets, Allah Salam, when wealth will be so widespread, everyone will be wealthy, there will

be no one to receive your sadaqa and your charity. That's a sign of the hour. So imagine you coming out and you want to give 100 pounds or $500, and you come out and you you want to give someone and that person turns out to be a billion even more than when you you know. So, before that day, we've got to learn to be charitable and learn to give it's it's definitely a teaching of Islam. And, you know, if we say who is it more about? Actually, it's more about the giver and the donor from one aspect. And then also, Islam discourages us to do nothing about our situation and remain poor. You have to try you have to get up you have to look for a job you have to try and work you have to make

a plan you have to buy and sell you have to do whatever you can. And Allah will grant you the baraka still if you're struggling because of whatever reason, no harm Allah has created a mechanism in that is in place where you will be taken care of that is amazing that you are Speakman some advice that you get with unbelievers your father that gave to you when it came to distributing as a card. And actually, yes, them coming to you, I think will be really good if you could share that with that. We've already said it in one of my recent talks where this is a card is a pillar of Islam. If I have $100 of Zakat, and I bought two food hampers, is it fair for me to call the poor people to me and to

tell them listen, come pick up your hampers. So they all come in or the people come in. They've spent money on transport say $10 to come to you and they collected it and went away. Why do they incur your $10 It's yours because it was your act of worship you wanted to deliver and when you called them they

He spent in order to help you to fulfill your activity rather, you should be giving them that transport money as well.

You know, the same would apply if we were to say that

if you've sent some people to donate to deliver your donations to a certain place or country, you ask them listen, whatever costs you incur to help me to fulfill my zakat, I'm going to actually top that or give it to you. And this is why I comment about this issue of 100% donation policy or not.

While it is definitely noble to use maximum funds on whatever it is supposed to be, the donor should be told and encouraged and educated like what we're doing right now to say, in order to fulfill yours, a cart, which was 100 pounds,

please give us another 10 so that we can actually make sure that it's delivered properly to Tanzania or Malawi, or wherever else or Afghanistan or whatever place it might be. Because obviously, you can't expect other people to incur or to use their own money incur an expense upon themselves in order to fulfill your pillar of Islam. So that was the point that we should be considerate of this when we're giving zakat. Say, for example, it was a cat is 100, you give 110. You give 120. If this is a cat, and this is going to help you to fulfill it, unless you're doing it yourself, then it's different. See? So that was the point? No, I think it was a very meaningful point of view, because I

see it having worked with some charities that are often here. The first question is, there's any sort of fundraising is it's a got eligible. And I think it's good advice, generally, that we, we try and force everything through the cart sometimes and this point about, like, it's your obligation is give extra Yes, to fulfill your obligation was very mean. And I think our advice should be balanced where, on one hand, we're telling the people to give more and rightly so. On the other hand, we tell the charities to cut their unnecessary expenses, for example, in order to for it to be more more beneficial, not just for the person who'd made the donation, but even for the charity. There's a lot

of Baraka that comes in when you've maximized your, you know, your gains in that way. We recently wrote an article for money experts on the best form of charity and going through the various ahadeeth about what's the best type of charity. And one of the ones we discussed was about sedco Jharia, you'll be good to hear from yourself with the HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND sadaqa jariya. And perhaps what a walk for is, well, sadaqa jariya has so many categories to begin with. It means a charity that Jerry Jerry means it's like continuing

I give a charity in a way that the reward of it will will continue beyond my own life.

So for example, if I gave someone a bag of rice, they're going to eat it and mashallah, it's still a charity, they're going to eat it digested, get the energy of it and Mashallah. But if I've built a school, for example, or if I have educated someone, or if I've planted a tree, or a borehole, what happens there, I might have died, but the benefit of what I did

outlives me, so I'm receiving a reward until that thing is depleted. And the evidence of it again is in the Hadith of the prophets of salaam where he speaks about those who plant trees. And he says that they will receive a reward for everyone who benefits and everything that benefits from the tree, its shade, its fruit and so on. So, trees live for hundreds of years. If you're going to plant a tree, you get a reward for it. And mashallah, it's a sadaqa jariya, which means it will continue now the Giardia is it continues to different points, it might end at a certain point, but still it outlived you. So you gained and it might continue forever. And then you have something like an

endowment where

you you know, you put in money in order to create a scenario where there can be an income that is generated from the particular investment that you've put in, that will continuously be used for something, something that you decide. A lot of the times it's an Islamic cause or something sometimes it could be work for a family cause or for a slightly more, you know, closed circle. But that type of charity is probably the best the best because that is going to go on and on and on. If any one of us have visited Medina mono

I'm sure you guys might have you guys are in the field. So you would have seen this.

As you're coming down one of the roads going back into the northern part of the harm, you'd see it's a massive building. And it says the work of man being a fun, Robbie Allahu Anhu.

That was a little orchard belonging to Earth mind when I found on the lawn that he had made work, which means he gave it as a sadaqa as a charity with the condition of work work, meaning we held in a work of art means to stop, I stopped this thing for what, for the sake of Allah, whatever is going to come from it now is going to go to this course. And let's maximize the benefit of it. So they used to have dates from there. I remember dates not too long ago, maybe about 25 years ago, when I was in Madina Munawwara that they used to give that said that this is from the workforce of man been a fan of the Allahu Allah so dates. So imagine how many years is that 14 140 years, 14, possibly

1400 years.

And here, we are still benefiting from something done by us man been a fan of their loved one, when a time came that they were developing that area and putting up hotels and so on, they needed to obviously change the orchard and change whatever was there. So those who are running that work, because you always have people who will be managing the work. And if it goes down based on the in the instructions of the initial work if a work if he's the one who initially gave it, he decides who's going to manage it and so on. So those managing this work for fourth man, when I found out the Allahu Anhu decided that okay, we will put up a hotel because obviously it's the most practical

thing.

The returns from that will still go to the same course. So they're literally anyone who stays there, the money is going to because I give you one other example. You've been to Makkah, I'm sure you've seen the clock tower and all of that. I don't know if you're aware that that entire building is a walk that the entire the clock tower and all those hotels, everything that's the is a work work of King AbdulAziz, the money of which the returns shall go back to the haram. Amazing. And so any hotel you find there, it might be one might argue, no, these are all international brands and names. They've rented the place, or they've struck a deal with the people there or they've got a lease for

so long. And they've paid for this and that and whatever else. Any money made as a as an end profit from that particular building, at entire, you know, Clocktower building and the whole zum zum, they call it goes back to the huddle, and it will continue to do so. And the day that they decide to

update the place if they want to. Whatever they put there, as a result has to be worked for as well. Me they say to me, this is why when we talk about work, it's something that only leaders think of, or those who are futuristics, you know, those who really want to look into the future and see, how do we

how do we secure this future for us for our, for the Omar for our families, whoever else it may be? Well, if you have a work, you no longer need to go around begging from people who say listen, we just going to ask you once, after that, we're not going to ask you because every month we need $5,000 We have planned to just ask you once so that we can actually invest in something tangible, something meaningful,

something appropriate that will bring back a minimum of that 5000 a month.

So if you can succeed to put up a maybe a few 100,000 and you're bringing back that 5000 Guess what, it's not just the donation of the 5000. But it's a continuous reward that you will achieve until the day that something goes wrong there inshallah it won't. And and it stops. The largest endowment in the world, actually, conventional is owned by Harvard University, that funds all of their education, you can see where they are, and the impact it has on entire civilizations actually. Now, to be honest with you, that's an Islamic concept and look at how it's been, you know, used and utilized the endowments and the work itself. If you look at the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam

and his time and what they did and what they didn't do. It was amazing. It was amazing. of mind being a fan of the Allahu Anhu in particular is a great name when it comes to work. He seized every opportunity to do things that would bring back a reward to him way beyond his death. For example, when there was a well it is still in Madina, Munawwara be Earth man they call it when the Prophet SAW Selim, they had a struggle with the water and he's questioned he said Who

will purchase this well and for them is Jana, you know, I have goosebumps talking to you right now of mine with Alana got up and he says I will do it, he paid the amount he got it and the Prophet SAW Selim says this man's purchased his paradise more than once he's done it. And just connected to this move the often people think about their journey to the next stage. And then they start thinking about having a will or we'll see, I don't know what it's like in Zimbabwe, mostly in the UK, obviously, because of the different legal systems were encouraged to ensure that we have an Islamic world to give our inheritors there, right.

What's your take on this? I think, depending on where you're living, and what the laws are of the land, if you're living in a place or in a country where the laws do not accommodate the proper distribution of

the wealth in accordance with the Quran, and Sunnah, then it is our duty to actually put up a will to stipulate that we'd like to do it in this particular way. And that's how we have it back in Zimbabwe. But if you're living in a country where they do implement that, anyway, then the need for that would be less. When I say less, I mean, you know, as in, in, in the Sharia, you have a leeway of up to 1/3 to actually write for non heirs, whatever you'd like to leave. And so if you'd like to do that Alhamdulillah you're more than welcome. But if you don't want to do it, and even if you haven't left a will, they will still process it according to the Quran and Sunnah. So in a country,

like, for example, Britain or anywhere else, obviously, these are secular countries, it would definitely be a requirement, a requirement, that if you have, if you own something meaningful, you must leave behind some form of instruction as to what exactly should happen to that and get guidance from the scholars and the experts. And inshallah we proceed. This is so important, and I'm actually learning because I didn't know what was until brother Omar mashallah introduced me to it's a in Istanbul. So, thank you, I'm sure it's gonna be very, very useful for everybody as well. They have internationally there are many organizations that actually not just promote, but take care of a lot

of works in South Africa, we also have the OIC, aft, very, very strong. And they can raise money very quickly because of the old calf for causes that are meet for causes that meet the clauses of that work.

So if you've given a work for certain causes, it they will stick to that whoever is managing, it cannot go beyond that. The UK law, that whole trust system was adopted from the old calf when they went during the Crusades, actually, and they saw that the Muslims had established a calf and they brought it back here. And the first trust that was established was met in college in Oxford, that was based on the system of old golf. And even today, lawyers, they have a have a place of worship, within their, what they

where they are the barristers, and this is they got from the Muslims, they sign that the scholars will always attached to a masjid. And they brought their back. And, yeah,

I just thought of something in India, you know, back in the day when Saudi Arabia was not the pre oil era, when they were not that wealthy.

There were different walks across the globe that catered for the Haramain. And one of them is in India. And if you go to Mumbai, for example, you see a set of buildings there. And the income from the it goes to the Haramain. So even though they're as wealthy as they are, nothing's going to change that in a rush. We're talking about wealth, and you know, how much of that how much has been generated. But going back to Zimbabwe, because that when I think Zimbabwe, everybody knows about the $1 trillion bill, I actually want to try to get hold of one, I have one, I have one in my bag if I had I know another.

But it's just fascinating to kind of share the story of how that all transpired and hyperinflation and how people you know, I hear stories from family about how to carry bags of money to get just in bread or something. How was it you because you were there at that time? Firstly, the biggest note we've ever gotten to is $100 trillion.

And that $100 trillion is very interesting, because what happened is, Zimbabwe had a problem, the problem The difficulty was a disagreement that they had with Britain regarding the land. And so Britain was supposed to return the land or pay for the land, you know, pay for the land that they had given their own people, when they came in as colonialists and so on. So the government says, Look, instead of getting the people out of the land, pay us for the land and that's it, but unfortunately, they didn't end up paying whatever the political side of it was.

But

As a result of all that, there were sanctions against Zimbabwe because the government went out and started taking back this land to say, Listen, you guys didn't pay up, you got to vacate, and so on. I'm trying to word it simply. And the economic crisis resulted in the dollar the Zimbabwe dollar, which by the way, was stronger than the pound in 1980. It went, Yeah, it was stronger than the pound in 1980. By the time the year 2000, came, it was started crashing, and freefall, freefall, meaning it was just because of sanctions, and because

we found ourselves with no foreign currency reserves, and so on. So when it started crashing, things became very expensive. And every day people's,

you know, salaries would increase, and the prices would increase. To the degree that

there were so many zeros that the reserve bank governor decided that we're going to delete three zeros, they deleted three, they deleted another two they deleted, they ended up deleting 27 zeros over a period of a few years. So when we say 100 trillion, you can add another 27 zeros to that to get the exact figure of what it was. And it's true that we had wheelbarrows full of money just to go and get something basic.

And now it's been replaced with, obviously plastic money. But the inflation has come back to us because every time they printed a new note, or they came up with a system, they pegged it one on one with the US dollar. In a short space of time, it actually became 100 200 300 500,000 2000 5000. And it was crazy, crazy. So the only way of dealing with that would have been a gold coin, to go back to gold and silver. And to go back to the original this there was no other way of dealing with it. And Zimbabwe is rich and gold.

So on one hand, you have sanctions where you cannot use the banks.

And the other hand, you have your rich and gold. And another hand this foreign currencies, they came a time when the government made an announcement to say you can use any currency you want, because just survive. So the Zimbabweans have been making a plan to survive from 1998 From 2000, approximately a plan to survive, you use whatever money you have for as long as two parties have agreed. The US Dollar was one of the major currency and the RAND because that was readily available. And so that is the Rand is a South African currency. But unfortunately, the RAND fluctuates as well, a little bit, it's much more stable, but still, but the US Dollar was the currency where I remember

the former president saying, Look,

this was what he said, he says, well, they messed up with our currency, let's use their currency, they're not going to mess up with the SEC. So he started, we started using US dollars, but things started becoming more and more expensive. So the talk of the gold coin, we actually created the gold coin as legal tender in Zimbabwe. So the unfortunate thing is they mentored so many 1000, and so on. And they were very quickly, you know, like, sort of used up and people and kept them, because now that's something we're going to keep, instead of using it and keeping going otherwise, we would have had a proper system that would have been the original Islamic system. And like I said earlier, the

Islamic finance system is probably the only system that would bring about solution to all the fears of the fiat currency that we have today, because it's on the brink of collapse, according to the experts, and I'm not one.

But I'm just repeating what they've said. And

to have proper if you if we all had little gold coins of different weights, right, even the lightest one. So they, how it works is they mix it, and it's mixed in a certain way. So the value is less, and if it's less mixed the values more and so on. So if we had to use those gold coins you have the real asset is in your pocket, nobody can take it away from you. It's the real thing. The terms devaluation and inflation are two terms that should never be in Islamic finance, they would not be non existent. The reason is, there's no devaluation and no, you know, inflation in that sense more. So devaluation, you can't just come in today and say we devaluing this thing, but divided by 10. I

mean, come on. The gold coin is a gold coin. That's it, it's done. It was precisely this reason, mostly that why had we came up with a system where you can have account and account that you can spend based on physical gold, because through monetary supply and control, actually, you can destroy

intentionally or unintentionally countries overnight. Yes, you know, I'm not an expert of Islamic finance, but I can tell you something very interest

sting.

When I was first introduced by a to Whitehead,

I didn't really understand exactly what they were trying to achieve. And so I was skeptical. The reason is,

like anyone else, when someone goes into Islamic finance, it's a big responsibility. I mean, just now I'm going to rubber stamp something, and what if it's not legit? So I took my time I took a long time, I remember speaking to some of the brothers, and they might have been irritated with me at the time when I said, you know, what, just hang on, hang on, but I took my time. And then I, you know, someone helped me with a little bit of the research that I needed and answered quite a lot of questions that I had, because of that research and so on. And I realized, you know, what, if we're going to get gold coin, and we're going to try and do things in the proper way, in within the

system, that's not proper, the minimum is we're going to save ourselves, the day that crunch comes from a lot of what perhaps others may not be able to save themselves from. And if we, if we have the right intentions, and we are doing the right thing, then Insha Allah, what can go wrong, you know, and by the will of Allah subhanho wa taala. Even if something does go wrong, it will be cushioned by the fact that we did the right thing. Yeah. And so later on, I began to embrace this. And you know, I remember one of the brothers presenting to a group in which I was

about Whitehead and this call to say, we stole your money in gold, proper gold, Sonia. And I told him, I said, Brother, if you're really doing this, this thing is gonna take off like you can't believe. And that's the day I thought, You know what? Truth be told, I'm impressed. I'm still waiting for my card.

will get when we get our glasses.

May Allah make it easy? Look, it's a very big responsibility. Because you know, the financial sector is so volatile at the moment that is unbelievable. And if you watch like I say, I'm no expert, but I do watch quite carefully. If you watch what's happening globally, and the jostling it's quite unpredictable, what may or may not occur in the next few years. It's actually quite

scary because over COVID, especially everyone remembers that as a marker, the super rich their wealth increased. Yeah, how many times more recently, I was reading around a hedge funds. At the moment, there's an issue about food supply, and the price of food for everyone has gone up this, they've made multiple billions hedging and speculating which way food prices are gonna go. And they actually said that food prices should go up, and they've made money in the back of it. Because it's, it's devoid of ethics. Now, if you look at the Islamic system, it wouldn't even allow you to make money out of speculation. It wouldn't allow you to make money or have a lot of the things because

the idea with the Sharia laws of finance is for it to be fair, and for everyone on Earth to have an equal opportunity. And therefore, the issue of zakat if you look at zakat, two and a half percent on the wealth that you have kept for a year, why didn't you do business with it? If you did business, you're going to have to risk profit or loss. And you're going to have to include others because you're going to be trading with people or dealing with people. So they would benefit you would benefit if you're not prepared. To do that much. We need two and a half percent Subhan. Allah Subhan Allah amazing, amazing. So it's very fair, Allah wants you to share your wealth with others. And

that's the reason why he gave you more in order that you share. I remember saying Islam is the only religion on earth that makes it a pillar of your faith. It makes it a pillar of your faith to share what you have with those who don't have it. Now, we sometimes do get caught up in wealth, like, you know, we're chasing the dunya, the next car, the next house, but some of the richest people out there not always the happiest, but at the same time, we see people who are wealthy and also happy. So how do you think we can become more content without risk? I tell you what you put your Lord first. That's what you can earn. You can have the latest you can have the latest of everything. You

can be the wealthiest but if your Lord came first you will have the bonus of contentment. And if your Lord did not come first, there is no contentment in there. It's as simple as that. When you allow your maker to discipline you and you fulfill whatever he has obligated you

to fulfill and you stay away from what he's told you to stay away from the result is almost instant contentment. You're so happy you've you know and you believe that my Lord is in charge and he's in control.

Well, what happens? You're smiling. You're always smiling. That's a hadith the Prophet SAW Selim says Archipel, the angry movement. The affairs of a true believer are amazing. Good happens is thankful, humble. And he, you know, it's good for him. something negative happens, he bears patience, he turns back to the Almighty, it's good for him. More than ever, there is a deeper conversation about earning halal. But can you explain what the importance is of earning and spending in in a halal way? It's not up to me to actually, you know, explain the importance of it, because everyone should know, that is very important. But I can add some very interesting points. Whatever

we consume, affects our entire system.

If you put a haram morsel of food in your mouth, I don't think it ends there.

The nutrients that came from it, will will only be utilized in a manner that probably lead to greater disobedience. How do you expect energy derived from a haram source to be used in Salah

to help you think in the right way. So you don't realize why on earth this person is thinking so negative was so way out. Do me a favor, start off by purifying your what goes into your mouth, your sustenance, when your sustenance is pure love begins to purify the rest of your system. And that's the reason why in my own small way, I've, you know, questioned and seen so it's like a mini research of my own way. People who are astray and completely and they don't want to see the light and don't want to hear a lot of the times they're involved in consumption of something that is haram. So they just don't see the light, they'll argue about something that is completely not even supposed to be

argued about in Islam.

So when you purify your income, Allah guides you towards the masjid, for example, Allah guides you towards doing the right thing, Allah makes it easy for you to dress appropriately, Allah makes it simple for you to actually eat halal, and be conscious of haram, and so on. Because you made a little effort. And that is directly a result of the Hadith of the prophets of Salaam. It's known as Hadith good see where Allah Almighty says, Whoever comes to me a hand span, I come to him a whole foot, you come to me a little bit, I come to you rushing, if you're prepared to make a small change. Watch what Allah does. That's so important, I think, and this is the thing in terms of sacrifice,

you might not see the results right away. But if you have confidence in Allah, that he will provide an he will give you your risk from the lie, it's such a such a beautiful, I believe you see the results straightaway. How you see it is you, you automatically almost instantly develop the sense of contentment, once you recognize Jamaica, and you know who he is. And you rely on Him completely and totally and you believe that he only does good even if what's coming in my direction looks as negative as it is, it's actually better for you just round up this discussion on our guest wealth.

The biggest challenge we face with the especially engaging with people is the normalization of rubber. Like I'm to make these these countries I know, in other areas is very difficult as you when you were describing Zimbabwe, I just trying to think like from a thick perspective, it just, you know, all bets are off, so to speak. But here where we have an established kind of system and framework and you know, everything else rebuys just saw accepted, and they just can't think of anything outside of rebar. I think one of the reasons is because they don't have an alternative according to them, or they haven't been introduced to any alternatives. And what I've noticed is

whenever someone comes up with something Islamic and they say, Look, this is an alternative to rebar.

They just sideline it because it's not mainstream. And that's it. It's not going to work. But unfortunately, they don't realize that is the solution. Because over time, I mean look at the credit crunches that have happened and the number of suicides that have taken place as a result of people who've lost their belongings simply because they couldn't pay the monthlies anymore. I mean, people who drive cars and houses, they have houses and so on. In most cases, they have a loan that they've taken from the bank. So it's not actually this, they're going to pay for it for the next 20 years. What they didn't work. What they didn't take into consideration is you might just lose that source

of income then what's going to happen? You know, so I think it's very important to explain to people that there must be some

alternatively here, and that alternative is actually there. And here it is. You know, speaking about Zimbabwe and what you were saying earlier,

one of the strangest things is the pegging of monies onto gold. So say for example, if if I came to you and said, Listen, I need some money. And you told me, how much do you want? And I told you, I need 5 million, 5 million meaning maybe $500. And

you said, Listen, I don't want any Riba i don't want interest. I don't want anything, here's 5 million.

You give it back to me as 5 million next week.

Next week came and I did not return it for some reason. Now what happens? Now, if you leave it for one more week in a country like Zimbabwe, that 5 million actually, which was worth 500, US dollars will become $250. Then it will be the house that we live in, In my Father's house. He purchased it in 1979 1984 $17,000 $17,000. Today, that house is probably worth 1.7 million, right? The same currency. But if I didn't pay you for some reason, and then your your grandchild comes in and says, Hey, listen, sorry, my dad and my my grandfather didn't pay you yours. Your money? Gave you 17,000 I can't even buy a chicken.

Right? Is it fair? So that's why I say even scholars who have studied wouldn't understand that that is unfair. You've got to give the value of the money and not the money. Because it's not actually money. It's just a fraud, stock federal law. So people were pegging it on the US dollar to say, Listen, that 500,000 I owe that it's worth 500 us the day you give it back to me, I want 500. Us. It's not wrong to say that because I'm saying give me back the 500 US I've had as a mufti, so many disputes that have come to me of people who owe others money. And they came to give them the exact amount later, so late, but now it's worthless. We've issued fatwas to say you've got to give the

value of the money because it's ridiculous. It's a loophole.

And then I started telling people do not pick it on the dollar, pick it on gold.

Because the dollar is equally vulnerable. But obviously, it fluctuates less, if it's 121 21 122. But that's still called fluctuation, people with bigger amounts would lose, they would look at the point not one of the cent, because it's a big amount. But if you take a look at pegging it on gold, whenever you give it back to me, I've given you 10 grams of gold, when, whenever you give it back to me, give me back the value of 10 grams of gold, thank you so much, you never lose. If anything, you'd get such a figure that will be much, much more in figure 10. But it's still the same. I gave you this much. And that's what I went back, I actually did a contract with somebody based on gold, I

needed some money, and they helped me out. And I can't explain the feeling of ease, doing it pegged to gold because we spoke about this earlier and everyone had the she has beautiful it gives everyone their rights. And when you're speaking that no one's rights are overlooked. So I wanted to develop an app and I spoke to a developer, but we couldn't come to an agreement with some of the exchanges where I said, especially for countries that have hyperinflation that if you owe someone money, let's have an app that immediately pegs it onto gold. And every time I return an amount, the moment of return I look in, I can punch in how much I've given you in the local currency and it will

automatically deducted in the days rate of the gold that was there. So I know that I've given you back maybe much more in terms of the local currency, but the gold is being calculated according to the value of the moment that I gave you the money, which differs from hour to hour in some cases of hyperinflation. So we wanted to create the app, but we needed to have a contract with X E and the others which we failed, but inshallah one day someone will do what I've just said, Inshallah, it will be a major, major breakthrough. The reason is, many Muslims want to give loans to others, but they just want to hold the value of their money. So they end up not giving you the loan, because

they say I'm going to lose if I give this guy money for two years. It's not a matter of losing. Let's pick it on gold and gold. Also, the value can fluctuate a little bit this way, that way, if it's going to be in favor of that person accept it. It's part of what Allah has ordained. So we are going to be talking a little bit more about our Well, no, I think I handled I think for our audience, it's really good on that gopi said, if everyone wants help on that, because actually create this spreadsheet measuring exactly that by Graham and it picks it up what the value is, and then it says this is the amount. And so Allah bless you, please consider the app that we had wanted

to develop and fail

With perhaps you might succeed with that, and I'm gonna see if inshallah inshallah now as we become more wealthy you know there is the famous Hadith about the poor entering paradise long before the rich. One of the reasons is they have to give his service to every penny that came in. You know, like the Hadith says that your feet are not moved until you answer certain questions. What it means is the first few things you're going to be one of them is where did you earn this from and where did you spend it. So if you've got a large amount, you're gonna have a long, I always give the example of walking through the airports when you've got so many bags.

If you've just won one handpiece no one even looks in your direction. Well, so it'd be I think you've also asked that because I was gonna ask how can we balance that while being wealthy wanting to earn money, but at the same time wanting to antigenic quickly, I think to ensure halal and haram that's what it is to make sure that it's dignified, it becomes second nature because initially you have to just worry about every single deal the minute you start getting the ball getting the ball rolling, you realize Listen, I don't need this I don't need that I remember a guy who turned down a massive deal simply because it was not structured correctly according to you know Islam. And he told

me two years later he had a deal 10 times the size

two years later and for two years his friends were telling him no you shouldn't have done this you shouldn't have done that. You know, come on, it was your opportunity, it was your chance and so on. Not a matter of chance because he left something for the sake of Allah. Allah multiplied it but there was a window window to whole years be patient don't you

now, it was recently reported a Hamdulillah that there are now over 2 billion Muslims worldwide, masha Allah Allah, masha Allah insha Allah I mean I think they're saying within 2035 will be the largest religion inshallah now with this comes massive potential of course. Right. So how, how big could an Islamic economy become if we all

concerted consented our efforts to earn and spend in a halal way? You know, while you were talking? I'm busy thinking we just need a little bit of unity amongst us. And that would that would really change the whole world? May Allah Almighty make it easy, obviously positive contributions towards the global economy. We'd like to benefit Muslims, non Muslims, whoever else they may be. But the idea is, yes, I look at people

who actually study the Muslim market because of their products and make it compliant not because of the numbers at times, but the buying power. Remember, Muslims don't drink. Remember, they don't consume a lot of stuff. So they have a lot of excess cash. People say Muslims are rich, you know what they they just wise Allah has created laws that keep them rich, because you don't waste your money. They don't you know, there's a lot of stuff that you're not allowed to use your money on, which happened to be massive industries, the gambling and so on massive industries with trillions of dollars, but when the Muslims are not found there, what are they doing with their money? Well, here

we are, you got to start thinking let's look at Sharia compliant halal. Those terminologies have come into effect in the last two decades. Prior to that maybe three decades prior to that it was not really even used.

The first time I heard the term Sharia compliant was when I think when I graduated from Medina, we're talking of 9098. MashAllah Sharia compliant this and I'm saying what Sharia when they first said Islamic banking, because they want to tap into the monies. They see. That's the only reason why there is Sharia Islamic banking of big big banks that are not necessarily not even Muslim banks, because they would like to tap into this resource. Let's get this money. Okay, if we have to make a few changes, we make a few changes. Well, we're hoping that there is their boards that implemented properly. But unfortunately, sometimes we've also heard of how it's not being implemented properly.

So this is this is what gives rise to something that's Muslim founded Muslim owned, run by Muslims. And you know, listen, we've done it as a service. Yes, we're going to make money perhaps. But at the same time, we're going to be sharing that and it's going to be, it's going to be granted Great. Unlike a person who's got no interest in Islam or its teachings, but only money. I'll give you one quick example. In the poultry industry.

We've had I've been involved in in the past in ensuring that some, some, you know, they're slaughtered in the correct way and so on. And I noticed that sometimes when there are people a lot of it, you know, when they don't have any conviction or anything