The Sunni vs Shia Debate
Date:
Channel: Mohammed Hijab
File Size: 80.65MB
AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers discuss the confusion surrounding the title of the Quran and the lack of progress in the writing of the book Khomeini. They criticize the definition of "medicals and the use of "verbal" in media, and suggest that the message is not accurate. They also mention a book "naught" and a video "naught" being a new thirteenth century thirteenth century. The lack of clarity in media statements and the "naught" concept are also discussed.AI Generated Transcript ©
Okay, so today what we're gonna do is we're going to do something which is not usually done in let's say dour circles, which is we're going to discuss the matter of Sunni and Shia. Today, we're gonna, he's my interlocutor here is going to systematically try and answer a video that I've originally done, which you can find on my channel, named the real differences between Sunni and Shia. In this video, I discuss three main matters, one of them being the Quran, the second being the Sahaba, of the companions of the Prophet. And the third being imama, a central concept in Shia thought, in that I said that these three things are the most important things are the most important differences as
it relates to Shia and Sunni discussion. So with that, it's important for us in order for us to get to know first of all, and be educated of each other's respective schools of thoughts, what these respective positions are on these three matters. Number two, today is going to be an attempt for me from my side, to attempt to actually give evidences to why is we hold the positions that we hold as relates to those three things. Point number three, there's been some conditions that have been laid down by the organizers that we are going to honor hopefully, which are conditions First of all, I'm not cursing the Sahaba or not, let's say praising them in public, this is the thing that praising
them throughout the thing is rather low on him, which is a inexpressive term in Arabic, okay, which means May God be pleased with them. So this is something we have agreed upon. And we are going to do that for the sake of advancing the argument forward and for the for the sake of educating the mass populace. So I would hope that everyone sticks to this condition these conditions. I would hope that with this discussion with this discussion that both parties, Sudanese and Shias that are listening to this, become more educated. Now listen, one more thing I want to say this is not an argument. I'm not saying the argument yet.
Nor am I starting the refutation. But what I am going to say to you directly, guys is this. Now there are some shifts that are going to be watching this, I want to make my position very clear. I don't consider the general mass of Shia as non believers, I don't consider that to be the case. I consider myself a Sunni Muslim, this is how I named myself a Sunni Muslim, that basically considers the mass populace of the Shia as part of being Muslim as well, they are Muslim. So if a woman if a woman or a man or a child, or an old person wants my help, I have they have all the rights. If I see a shy person, I will say Solomonic. If a shy person dies, I will do justice on them, allegedly until
the end of that. So this is just one thing. I wanted to make no hostility between me and the Shiite brothers, because frankly, I do consider the mass populace as Muslims. So this is a very important point. The purpose of me advancing the argument today is not because I hate she has is because I this I this associate completely with elements of Shia Islam.
Does it matter? Does it matter where I plug it? Or do I hold it or just put it
under him? Thank you for all the brothers for coming here today. Now, the purpose of this discussion was, of course, in reply to send a reply to the video that Brother Mohammed job made where he highlighted the differences between the Shia and the Sunni. He mentioned in the video that they revolve, the three biggest differences revolved around on Sahaba and amoment. Now, first, on that point, of course, I'm not making argument, but I would say that I disagree on that, because I would say from the very beginning to hate, I would say we differ on that. And there's many aspects we can discuss of tawheed. However, I'm not going to get into that, because that wasn't mentioned on the
video. So the points that you mentioned, were under many the three headings, but there were various different points mentioned in the video. And some brothers requested me to do a series in order to reply to these points. However, I said, if I'm going to do a video, there won't be one or two videos, because I want to give justice to these points. Nor do I believe I can do that fully in this discussion today. But I will try my best to of course, discuss these points with you. And I want you to elaborate on your positions that you mentioned in the video. So you may bring new evidence However, I'm not obliged to answer new things. Rather, the points that you made in the video, these
need backing up because you've made them and of course, probably you said it's an it's an educational video, with all due respect yourself. I do not believe it was an educational video. But I'm saying that myself. Of course, even if a non Muslim, for example, does a video against Islam, we may hold that opinion, say, you know, we want to meet up with him and prove its educational. So what I'll do is I'll go through these points in sha Allah tala, and you can give me your position as to why you mentioned them. And we can discuss in this way, because the proper debate has to have one discussion. And it has a one fee sister. Okay, we conclude at the end. Here. There's various points,
and I hope that I'm able to get through all of them. So if we see that we're dragging on too long on one point, they'll have to be a conclusion at one point of this point, so that we're able to discuss all of them, otherwise, we have not achieved the objective of our discussion. So that's all I have to say.
And basically
As you said, you don't mind me starting because I'm going to read obviously the arguments that you put forth so yeah, it's
it's worked out in a way that it came back to you but I'm saying because obviously you get Yes.
Yeah, okay.
Okay, let's find them. Essentially Tell me let me know when you start on this like less time left.
Okay. Now
okay argument one in your video we said when you said when we look at the classical Shia scholarship with regards to the preservation of the Quran, they don't believe the Quran is preserved because they do not believe the Sahaba have done a good job argument to you mentioned phoslo hip hop. please mention me inshallah, the purpose of mentioning this book killer, what was the purpose of you mentioning it? You also mentioned the Khomeini, you said that he believes in raising capital, capital Assad, I believe. So these were the main three things that you mentioned regarding the points of this. Now, what I would say Firstly, is that you say classical Shia scholarship within
your video, you failed to mention one classical Shia scholar, because I want to ask you as well, of course, top policy, we have three different topics is of course, the one that you mentioned, he died in which year the year of 1902. So we wouldn't consider him as a classical scholar nor even someone like allama to the matchless he would be considered as a classical scholar. So this is one point that I mentioned on that.
Of course, the second point you said okay, Fossella pub, I will just want you to say, Okay, why have you mentioned that, but, and, of course, with Khomeini's book now, some Shia prophets, they may follow Shirazi Sistani, whatever, Khomeini, I'm not into, you know, disputes between the scholars. I don't care about that. But what I'm saying is, do you have an original copy of the book, where he says that he does believe actually, because I, myself have genuinely searched? And I'm not defending? I'm just saying that any author when you quote their book, if it's correct, it's correct. If it's not correct, it's not correct. So regarding Khomeini Have you found the actual quote,
because the one that was translated in Arabic and the original languages Farsi, of course. And I know that obviously you don't read first, you Arab. This was translated by a Jordanian or Palestinian, I believe, who was not of our school. So we could say, in some ways, it's a biased translation when you actually ask the Iranians, they don't rely on that translation. They say it's been tampered with and it's not original. So if you can show me in Charlotte, Allah, where you got that from, and yeah, I can.
No, no.
Of course.
Yes, yeah. Oh, sorry, sir.
Okay, so it seems to me that he's a main issue with what I said was that I fail to mention some of the classical scholars in my video. So really, he wasn't saying he wasn't denying, and this is an important point, he wasn't denying the fact that some scholars in Shiite quarters, believe in the Hadith of the Quran, meaning that the Quran is not intact and not preserved. He didn't deny that because he doesn't, hopefully believe he doesn't believe in tequila, as much as let's say, other shows do and this is why I came to speak to him. that's point number one, which is very well noted. I think if anyone's watching this debate, you have to really see read between the lines. Point
number two in terms of the classical scholarship, I'll make it very clear now. And sounds overland, really, alarmingly? Here. I've got some of his quotes and Emily is one of the most classical scholars in in Shia Islam in all of Shia Islam, and listen to what he says. He says alarmingly, this is a foolhardy Allah Hadith. Obviously, he's talking about some of the Hadith that he read.
Allah Allah and UNASUR, la malema, Salama, three will be smart him will come to us a little about the Quran Naka Simon who Kathy was sakata man who is here is this person laemmli which is like a sherfane for the for the Sudanese. He is saying that the Quran has for me as to which are being plucked out, taken out sakata manhyia la casa Monica Thea, this is what he is saying. But if this is not something which is convincing to you, then maybe since you did mention the Medici, then the measureless is tough here of the Hadith, which is mentioned in El Cafe by Kalani, which says that there are 17 that the Quran came down as 17,000 as the Hadith says, The Quran that came down in
17,008. And the oldest remains of it is about 3000. There's differences of rewire. And here this hadith is mentioned by Abdullah of course, that is Java Sonic. So here we have Java 760 meme, talking about the fact that the Quran in fact came down to 17,000 verses and then after that
all of the verses were taken away until you only have 3000. Left obviously, maybe you didn't count them properly because at about 6000 verses of the Quran 6236 to be correct to be completely accurate. Having said this, and mejlis He mixed us he held this hadith and so does his father.
So when we mentioned the imagination you said it's not classical school IMAX has higher meanings. He says authentic and imaginary and other books he himself talks about today. And it's very difficult for anyone to say that imagine this, he does not believe in it. So here the question is, do you deny? First question? Do you believe the Quran is bahara? is pleasure is not preserved? Second question, do you deny that she has scholars in the mainstream Shia circles have said this? Third question, if not Jew mechtech fifth, do you say that the Shia scholars who said the Quran is not as are not Muslim? And if not, why not?
Sorry, good.
Don't turn the mic.
Okay.
Tell me one.
Okay. Yeah, no.
Okay, of course, the first point you didn't answer me on regarding why you mentioned top policy? And can you admit that you were wrong and mentioned mentioning him as classical scholar? You should have brought that in your video. I'm actually good because you meet you did correct yourself. You said in the video are 18,000 IRA. The head if you're talking about it says 17,000. But to answer this, we say that yes, even this Hanif itself is one of the brothers has done the research where we found that there is a problem within the chain with it. But we say no, we don't just reject anything and say, okay, it's weak, we see that chefs are looking his key icrea. Obviously, I won't read out the
full quotes because the lack of time, he explains that had he thought the extra extra explanatory revelation, it marks up to this number of 17,000 Associates what you could have done in your video. You could have mentioned chef more food, you could have mentioned Chef saduak. You could have even mentioned other scholars like chef posse, who affirmed that there's no distortion in the Holy Koran. So you've also implied that anyone who believes in the Holy Quran is corrupted is covered or they believe nonpoint Okay, of course. Another thing that I want to say too is okay, so you say that their cover, please say okay, are you wrong on the top policy issue that he's a classical score are
not the ones that you brought? I'm not obliged to answer them. But what I will say is that we say, anyone who believes in the Koran being distorted, we would say that this belief is a deep blue I don't need to do today on this eba. It is a deep belief. But however, saying coffee is another kind of
it's another thing to the same conference, another category. So if I say someone's a kafir, because of faith in this world, and another door, which I'll elaborate on, but what I'm saying is, what was the purpose? Because before I go on my points, I want to know, what was your purpose for mentioning Thomas's book, because obviously, we know it's an isolated incident. It's an isolated case. And we actually know that alhama differ as to why He even wrote this book. And ironically, he used more suddenly narrations and Shia narrations in the book. And some scholars, I will accept that he believed in tax relief, I'll say that, you know, it's okay. He believed in me if I've got no problem
with that. But what I'm saying is if you show that book, I also have a book out for fun, which is from eternal healthy living and sleep. And he also was a Sunday LSR graduate, who, in fact, himself wrote a whole book on taproot. Now, you may say you've done tech field on him, but my point is regarding some of your Sahaba I would say that okay, you want to say someone that's a kafir, releasing some of your Sahaba would believe in things that amount to to hurry. One of them we find that one of our might have been alcopops his re citation, he would recite Surah Al Fatiha in the following way. He would say that sirata and tala humiliate him bionic. Pauline.
Clearly here we don't find in any of your better after the present day, but I thought that this is prison that he's this reading and we find that Omar said this so would you say yourself that this is temporary. So regarding To sum up, as I said the 17,000 IRA we can say that we accept it in the way of a headquarter so as we know it's still from Allah subhanho wa Taala. But it does not count as revelation as part of the Quran. So I can easily reject this and bring other narrations where it doesn't lead to death, nor does it lead, for example, to the names of the amounts in the Quran. However, we'll move on to that point later.
Let me just
do this. You saw Yeah.
Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah. Do that one. More, please. Yeah.
Do again. Okay. No problem. 30. Okay, okay. This seems to me. Like there is actually on the first issue. no disagreement, the only thing is a semantical disagreement. Well, he is saying a tub of ice. Yes. a tub of ice. Yes, he might believe in theory, but why did you mention him? Is he a classical scholar or not? Depends on how you define some classical in English language. Usually things that happened in the 1900s are referred to as classical things. Now, if you don't want to refer to him as a classical scholar, then I'll take you back. I haven't got a problem. This does nothing for our thesis. The thesis is that the Shia mainstream position or at least a large number
of mainstream heavyweights, Shiite scholars, they believe that the Quran has things taken away from it, and things put into it and alkalyn himself although he doesn't do any harm himself, which means he doesn't come up and say generally himself, he has a bad chapter in his l cafe.
bad but the chapter of the fact that the Quran Lem huge mafia man, it did not come together in the time of Othman, were in the law is actually put together and in a matter it's only for the IMA, which means only for the Imams. Now, this might be shocking to some someone listening is shy, he doesn't know about these things. And mostly what was going on here Why is it that such a big island is putting this in his book The reason why is because generally speaking, there was a desperation. There was a desperation early on in she I thought, the fact that there was no verses of a man in the Quran, they had to try and invent something so they had to say look, the Quran itself, it was
originally 17,000 words, and then it will 17,000 verses and the verses were taken away. This is desperation, nothing but desperation which is why you'll find into futile commit, which is one of the most acclaimed FRC and gi circles that you have things like come to hydromet and Oprah Jacqueline us and sort of lm Ron, that you are the best community are chosen for humankind. He says clinic Abu Abu Abdullah Jaffa the sodic come to hydro enmity no project leanness that it was meant to say that you are the best imams Why? Because then the Sahaba what they did with that DeVonish handiwork according to a Colombian, others, they must have taken away these verses now. What he said
abominable hottub is nothing but a lack of understanding of how the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, I want to ask you a direct question. Since you didn't answer my previous direct questions. Hopefully this time we're going to answer this these direct questions. My direct question to you my friend is what's the difference between a half and Akira? What is the difference according to suddenly scholarship? Since you're reading our books, and I'm sure you've been educated? What's the difference between the half and the killer? He said, it's not part of the karate lasha Yes, it's not part of the karate Elijah. What is the difference between laughs doesn't
allow Akira. If you cannot answer these questions, then what I will have to do my friend and I'm saying this will respect I will have to educate you. You're saying I wasn't educating you in the first video. But I will suddenly hopefully educate you here today because this is an important thing. If you don't know what the future is,
when the Quran was being revealed to Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam it was being revealed tonight that I should have more than one.
Then after that is finished. Sorry. Then after that there was an alarm of Hera. Which means the final thing which was revealed to Prophet Mohammed in Ramadan, this is the Quran that we have been Idina in front of us today.
So you're seeing this not happening, basically the recitation
Okay, that's
okay. As we mentioned, you can find many ahaadeeth what we find is that the strongest ahaadeeth that we have, do not say that the names of the Imams Allium Salaam were mentioned in the Holy Quran. However, what we do is we accept these headings and as we say, it's extra elucidation on the verse which is also why he but not part of the Holy Quran, as I said, with piracy if you want to bring an isolated book now, as I said, the alama they differ about this, but some people have cursed this book. Some people say that he wrote it just to collect narrations. And Some even say that his student student of apostle, Ronnie said he repented. So I brought likewise, as I said, bringing this
book and it shows that both of them you may condemn them, but both of them have books on faith. Now, you also said that
about the 17,000 I art? Well, as I said, it's not authentic narration. However, we also have one of Omar saying that there's more than a million letters in the Koran that would show a increase in the Holy Quran. And you said that it's not to hurry. Well, what I would say is that the seller fees they're constantly trying to accuse us of that terrorists shoot themselves in the foot because as we have here, the well known anti Shia writer Asana, Allah here, but he Mohamad Job said, it's not to hurry, it's not definitely for the ayah. What he tries to do is this exact same reading that's mentioned format of an ad hoc pop in this book, he tries to attribute it and say all they have
something, for example, for a mom's article Islam saying this and the book is agnostic. However, we cannot verify the book because it has over four different boasts, they attribute it to four different authors. So it's not reliable itself. So assign the law here, he would himself regard this as being too heavy, because he mentioned this and she ns parameter job. He obviously himself, he doesn't regard it as being safe. So what I would say is that thank you for admitting on that point that you mentioned someone, okay, he's not a classical scholar. It's not about the words, we're saying that okay. You mentioned classical scholars, the other quotes that you gave, I'm not obliged
to reply to them, because you didn't mention them in your video. So if you want to keep bringing more, it will go on and we won't be able to get through the points. You said in your video, that classical Shia scholarship, and you mentioned koperasi, as someone who is a classical Shia scholar, palainian, matchless, he these are other cases, that can obviously be spoken another point. Now what I want to say also is regarding the other point, where you mentioned about grief, I asked about capital SRR from Khomeini because you said obviously is a big shift for scholars have you did you bring the book
If you did you bring the original quote from his book because I would obviously like to know that because as we find we find one of his books are double Salah, that he confirms that the Quran is without change. And he actually says that he doesn't believe in tarrif. So if we're able, if we want to negate this, we have to prove that the Bible was a quote said by him where he says, I believe that the Quran has been changed. I'm saying it's not hurting upon me anyway. But in his book, he clearly shows that he doesn't believe in Tarot, and you can see the page number after now I won't waste time opening it up. So please, if you could have no I don't believe in Tarot. But what I say
is that if I be you asked me about the power of question, I'm trying to remember your points as well. I don't think I'm avoiding them. I would say that before you asked me about your Ashraf and how many of them are you should probably go to your own scholarship party, his popular aluma Koran book, he mentioned here that the seven out of this deal of difference 35 to 40 different opinions. So the scholars have that listen to themselves can't even agree and define what the after off even are. So how am I meant to know what the afro for are?
About last month? Okay, good.
Have you got Mike? Yes.
I'm very happy. I'm very, very happy with where this discussion has gone. I'm very, very happy. The fact that we have been able to establish today that these things have been said these new these makala have been said these extracts have been taken out of the books of the major Shia Allah, we have representative of the show with all of his books, and he did not deny the fact that acqualina emergency and whoever else I mentioned in the previous speech, did in fact believe in behave. Now as for he didn't deny the fact as for the point, now, you must understand something I'm going to ask you a question. He just said he does not believe in truth, which means he does not believe the Quran
has anything taken out of it or put into it? Yes. And then I asked him, Do you believe he said your own scholars don't even know what I prefer. And then he caught us off guard. He was a contemporary, obviously. I mean, we could have chosen anything else. You can read Arabic or Nietzsche was a Jedi for example. But he chose a contemporary because maybe it's an English it's easy for someone like him to read. But having said this, I want to be I want to put something very straightforward to him. Now if you go to a Masjid, which is in London, with Moroccans, they're going to read with what which color wash and
wash ins are the same molecule Medina, Hassan ASIMO he believes in the same molecule madein Okay, melakukan Melaka different. Malik means owner, Malik means King. Now the question is you've got three options. Either you say the Quran has been changed.
And the Muslims have not been able to preserve the Quran. Or you say no, no, actually, I don't believe in that. In fact, what I believe is that those people who call themselves Muslims, which are not actually Muslim Sudanese, because every Sunday anybody who calls themselves a Sunni, whether they are Deobandi, whether they are a whiny, whether they are Salafi, Hanafi barelvi, anyone who dies for Nia calls himself a Sunni believes in the Quran, even the amadis who are not Muslim, they believe in that. And the craft, my question to you directly is, are you saying Malik is a distortion? Yes or no? All the Muslims say it's not a distortion? It's a half that's represented in
the camera? And what are your what's your direct reply to that? Either the Quran has not been preserved. or number two, the Quran has been preserved, but only within your small sect of let's say Shirazi she I or other she, I tell me now, is this your position? Do you believe that everyone else is a Catholic? Or do you believe that the Muslims have preserved the Quran to preserve the Quran has been preserved with the Muslims in decorah? In Allahu Allah, Allah, Allah has chapter 15, verse nine, we have certainly sent down the book, and certainly Allah will protect it. So this is exactly what Allah subhanaw taala meant.
And this is what we're saying here. direct question, is this?
Or is this a legitimate stylistic difference? Which is sanctioned by Prophet Mohammed through Allah shukran.
Okay,
what's happening?
It's okay, don't worry about it. Go ahead.
Okay. Now, as I said, you haven't answered my question. I want to know about the capitalist rather than the Khomeini. I'm not discussing your art. That's a different discussion. And that's something to go into. Yeah, there are differences between the Shia scholars pertaining to their art. Some of them, for example, may say that, okay, they don't accept war. Some of them do these things. Actually, no, I wasn't quoting just from your sort of party. However, he quotes from his different scholars within his book. It's not from his opinion. So he's bringing different like, urban potrebbe
In South Sudan and other scholars in here, like Parvati and others, where he puts their opinions regarding the afro from what they say about that. So me myself, I'm not just merely quoting your support, I'm saying you're asking me about that of myself. And what I'm saying is that your scholars cannot agree on that. But you confirm to me that okay, of man burned your Quran, and he burned your arrow. So what earthman did is that he took all of these ad off, apparently Yasaka dimensions here, according to one of your scholars, it was due to some divine inspiration, that Othman did so he decided to burn the Quran. So the problematic issue about this, as one of your Salafi office has
admitted this is Terry. And he shows this, but he doesn't know this from Omar, he thinks is from one of our moms. So he admits that stuff in there, but what I'm saying is this does not exist. In the present, there are too many people that confuse if they're off to the afterlife, I'm saying this was one of the afterlife, and it's not preserved today. And it's different from the Quran that we have today. Because what you'll say, when you debate with a lot of non Muslims, you will say that we you know, we accept the Quran, the Quran is one, it's never been changed. But what I'm saying is that I'm not saying I believe in truth, I'm saying myself that if I was to go according to your
narrative, I could never believe that the Quran has been preserved according to what your Sahaba said, because somebody, for example, you might have believed like two thirds of the Quran is lost, but you in fact, have six seventh of your Quran lost and you don't have them. So we don't know what was mentioned in there. So it's obviously you want to say we believe in tackling for some our scholars, what I'm saying is you didn't mention the sources in your video, if you had mentioned them, I would have discussed them. But please, obviously ask.
Tell me about the Khomeini quote, did you actually check it yourself? Or was it something like that was a Google search, and you're after off, as I said, Your scholars themselves dispute over it. And they get very big, different definitions, one of them that was in a different ledger that was in the different accents. Some of them say no, the Sahaba could change the forearm themself. They could change some of the readings, you know, it's just a slight change. But of course, it's not a divine change. It's the Sahaba who change it themselves. And of course, we find other Sahaba who recited like the Quran later on after the burning after the authentic Messiah. We find that Abdullah bin
mussel, sorry, Allah, Masha, Tabby, he recited Tatiana Abdullah have been wattpad tab. So Cloud was still added in here. And this is after earthman burned all of this Koran yet, you know, we don't know what we've lost in the Quran. If we accept this, I'm not saying I'm accepting I'm saying it's my opinion, but I'm saying if I go to according to what's in your books, I could not accept that are almost in fact preserved, because of mon Banta and then later on, you've got your Sahaba who are confused or something? Whoa.
Whoa, whoa, this is really really, really interesting. The argument has become fuzzed out and now he doesn't really know what to say. Because he started by talking, insisting about cashless love for Khomeini. What, why is Khomeini such a big deal for you? You're Shirazi you believe in South Africa. Shirazi the you're the manager for you is not Khomeini. So let's pretend you're actually helping him anyway. Like this is not your manager. You don't you don't have anything to do with him. We've mentioned other biggest scholars in here in Khomeini alarmingly
I've mentioned the alarm and why don't you deal with alarmingly Alka Laney who is like a Buhari for us? Why Why are you Why are we talking to me about Khomeini Halas if you don't like Khomeini, what I said about Khomeini I retract it No problem. That's not an issue. Not to say here that what he didn't say in his book, cache philosophy wasn't what I read. I said I read clearly in the Arabic you're saying no, it was in translated incorrectly. I haven't done that. The level of bias, but I don't need to because I've got bigger people. Like Alemany saying the same things now. Interesting. He's talking about we don't know what the afro for. But that wasn't my question. I asked, What's the
difference between that and the product? I didn't really tell me what I have is that what's the difference between those two things? And he was not able to answer me. So now I'm gonna have to tell him. The Ashraf are representative of the stylistic differences within the carrot. So now we have a mechanism to explain why there is Mexican malloc you have no mechanism to explain why is Mexican Malik. Now I'm asking you is malloc tarrif. Yes or no? Is Malik king of the Day of Judgment? Hua Shan naffaa. Is this tarrif or not? And if you say yes, then the book of Allah has been not preserved. Point number two, ask him ask him who according to us, is the Sahaba of the Quran that we
both believe he is the person who is in the chain of the Quran that we both accept, let's say which is Hassan awesome.
I tell you today challenge. Okay, what's the challenge? what's what's going on? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The challenge is going to be as follows my friend, you're going to bring your books because you've got your books I didn't get I just got some notes because you gave me two days. Notice for this, but no problem. I challenge you to tell me one regional book. One regional book from the she eyes that tell me who asked him is who is awesome. You only know who asked him.
Because we told you who he is asked him is in the Sunni chain. He's in the Sunni chain. You have no information he's made role unknown in the Shiite book so you accept our chains. That's why you have to understand the video you have to call it your Quran is are put on your right is is of course it's our Quran because our chain, give me a chain of shear a chain. Give me a shear chain and give me that.
The Hadeeth that talk about awesome and your books, not our books. Don't go into South Alabama. Go into your adult tissue and go into your books and tell me what Wilfried said. He says this module, I can tell you that from now.
So we're gonna have
the Mac Why does it matter if it's
half an hour?
Wait, is this last three minutes on the Quran? Yes, okay. Sure.
Okay, now
so Mohammed t job he mentioned, of course, the points in the video he failed to mention about progress. As I said, Tavares, he wasn't a classical scholar. So you're wrong in that. As I said, I've heard about these quotes. I've seen the list online on their blogs where they say major Shia scholars who believe in tahari I'm not you falsely or attributes me that Oh, I forgot. I didn't say I affirm it. I say these points were not mentioned in your video and they can be discussed at another time. I said your ad off at the end of the day it was burned. So it's some some of your scholars also say for example, here, you find that your Socrates is Elkhart. He says that the
companions basically the opinion is very strange and problematic. That Othman in fact left these got our art out. And then you didn't answer the point about how much he uttered it later on after abdominus Oh, to use the delete some of the soldiers of the Koran and who lol Barney, you know, he admits it himself. And Amash was reciting the Quran this way so that if a non Muslim comes to you, and he says that, Okay, show me your Koran is completely preserved in one way. He'll find that there are many different
discrepancies in terms of the sources and in the wording. Now you say about the better art. I'm not here to discuss it at our art. But you In fact, in this we've had the scan here I can give it to you after you actually have *ty people in the chains of some of your parents. One of them being hamrun been out Yunel Koofi who was the brother of Zora and he was actually a companion of Mr. Masada family his Salaam who chef to see confirms so even in your of their art, you have people who are she in here so we can say that no, it's not your Koran. In fact, you take it from she's and also the Salah, you say like to say other people like Asher is a deviance, but they took many of their
science from Ashley's and people who they would consider deviant. So for me, if Allah subhanho wa Taala is the one who says the Quran is preserved. It's not my it's not really my problem. I just see that it's been preserved, you know, that's how it is. But I'm saying according to your texts, you've lost six seventh of your Quran. You have she narrated in this chain. And of course, as I said, you fail to answer my point. One of your Salafi writers as she I will hold on, he clearly said that this reading was temporary. So you didn't answer that, of course. And you said that you read it in Arabic. I've already said that's not reliable. I said Bring me the original one of Khomeini. I may
not follow him myself. But I'm saying the point that I'm trying to make is that you said Khomeini and capitalist Harare, he believes in theory if you're trying to say that because he is taken as a big Shia scholar for some for some of the she but you didn't back up your claim in the video. So tabula rasa himself your content if you accept that, but you have this one URL for calm, which was written on tarrif. And as well, not everyone who believes in terraform. I know you like Regent's Park mosque, actually, the Imam I spoke to him there. And I have witnesses of that. I said, there's anyone who believes in to have a PC necessarily a Kaffir that a mom said that, no, we have to find
out exactly why they believe in truth, but what we would say is Toby and Abdullah bin Massoud, they believed in a different Koran and they deleted some of the sources of this Koran. And they in fact recite huaca tab after the automatic
all the other Ashraful burnt and this goes to show what
regions Park mosque. Wait a minute, my friend has this discussion. degenerate degenerated to the extent of Regent's Park mosque.
What the hell is going on here? I went and I have witnesses I spoke to the Imam in Regent's Park mosque.
The people are watching this my friend.
Seriously, what kinds of authorities
Is this the desperation now that you're reaching Regent's Park mosque? No, I'm not gonna waste my time with this. You keep mentioning
a tabula rasa tabula rasa
Merci. It's wrong semantics if you don't want to accept Him as classical, fine, his contemporary, done. Don't waste time. You're wasting our time. Seriously. A lot of bands that are not burnt that are not burned that still remain within the current agenda is so in tabletop. Who is a real authority you're talking about? Yes, a party. I mean, sorry, with due respect to everyone who speaks in English. Anyone who speaks in English but yes, I've had to compare him now. to the, to the, to the to the authorities. Are we are we being serious here?
Come on, man. Come on, man. Read the book. replayable, john Nash have reached out to his works. Then tell me about kurata and the common English book, come on, come on. Come on. When you talk about everything was out. And what he's referring to is Falcon ness, not knowing that he actually retracted that statement, when he was part of the legend app. He was part of the legendary he didn't. He didn't think of Apostle Paul. He knew that why he didn't think of the first body. But then he retracted this afterwards, when he was in the legendary there was an age man, he was attracted. It wasn't you mentioned that. And you keep talking to me about?
And then he talked to me about Ramadan? And surah. Rosa, who for us is not? Is that what you're talking about? hammer on. And by the way, let me tell you something about the books of Heidi. When she ism is mentioned in our books, it means she acts of delay. Yeah, it means that the person believed that man shouldn't have been in charge and rather it should have been in charge. And you're still relying on our books. You're still relying on our books, I've challenged you and you have not been able to meet the challenge, which is get something from your books, give me a chain, get me a sheet a chain of the Quran. If you have no chain, you have no Quran, you have to depend upon the
Sudanese Quran with all the Sudanese narrators in there.
You have to rely on awesome. And half an hour after Amanda Solomon, and Othman dibner. Fan. Who's your book? You're reading it? The Karate school the off man. Squad most of us man. Good muscle most of us man. Because Is he the one who was supervising it?
Are you mad?
Are you mad? This is incredibly contentious. Anyway, I think with this, how long do I have left? 10th. One minute. 10 seconds. Believe me? I don't need it.
Is this the end of the topic of the content? Can I comment or
whatever you want
to go first? Well, I have to read the objection. Of course.
That's just I can read your initial objection that you made in the video, of course, and then, you know, so yeah.
Okay, so is he starting timing?
Wait, who says
we're just in the table? There's no time? Yes.
Okay. You said arguments? Well, it wasn't really an outcome you gave it didn't definition you said as a hobbyist, someone who person that he met the Prophet was a believer and died upon Islam. And this unit the transmitters of the revelation. Well, first off, this definition is not the only one from it's one of the men lucky and there be your definition for us. It doesn't filter out the hypocrites. Of course, such a definition could include babies because a baby could meet the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu, by the way, and die as a Muslim. It doesn't even say a time limit on how long they should meet. And also you find like Bahati, for example, he mentioned that man sokoban, ob,
ora, ora homina Muslim informing us habit. So this, we see with Mojave, we see very loose definitions of what you say, our Sahaba because obviously you believe that many Sahaba like or theming says 114,000 Sahaba. Or just and that will be an agenda for example.
This definition basically means that anyone who met the Prophet, man, Sahib, and maybe maybe he met the Prophet, one for one moment, and all he saw the prophet and he was just a Muslim. He is a Sahabi, according to this definition. So you mentioned one definition, but you didn't mention the more problematic ones. Now what argument five you mentioned is Al kafi, the second most authoritative book for the Shia, it says that all the Sahaba were apostates, except for Amazon without salmonella Farsi. And these other free Sahaba who are not apostates according to the Shia tradition. So how do you explain the concept of that? It only sounds to me on that. So I would say
so much.
Remember the last question.
Okay, I said it You said
JOHN, yeah, you said
I'm saying you said on your video, these are the free Sahaba who are not apostates. According to the Shia tradition. He said, by the way, probably, I don't want to violate the rules.
Just to make the question clear, if I don't understand you if I can, please, please. Yes, yes, of course. I'm saying you seem to the Shia according to the Shia tradition, okay. These free Sahaba were the apostates they will not be a positive story. And all the others have opposites. Of course, you made that point. Yeah. So I'm saying what do you say about our concept of the origin? But I'm saying that I do. I can elaborate on that on the other. Okay. Let me let me let me let me start with what we say yes or no.
First thing he said is that there's a loose definition of the Sahaba. According to me, man, lucky and abio
Metallica, this is what the only thing is, you know, whoever meets the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu sallam, and he was a moment and then he dies upon ISIS. Oh, by children, of course. The scholars of Hadith and of Islam have mentioned the the prohibitions of for example, a child and everything handed over a certain age. So this stuff is mentioned, this is called tough, tough seal. So the stuff of like, okay, children and these kinds of things, and okay. And the definition, as he's mentioned, doesn't, does not, does not just describe the hypocrites, because I mean, the thing is, of course, that will be an exception. And how do we know that? We have a Syrah in chapter one verse
in chapter in Volume One, page 467. And 472 474. has mentioned a whole list of the hypocrites and based on solid evidence is why because here we have Chi mat, which means we have a general principle based on the Quranic verses, which I'm going to tell you now, which I've mentioned in the video, which you have no response to my friend. Yes, of course, you should. We should have no response to my friend, these Quranic verses, which clearly tell us that the Maha God and the answer, who are 99.9%, of the narrator's of the Sahaba, that they are basically, Raja alohomora is as mentioned in the Quran. So hey, let's go first say you said that this Chi this definition is so loose, but look
at her loudly. Taiwan, one of the big scholars in MLM MLM Yeah, in volume one
page number 83. What does it say? He says anyone who is companion with the with Jaffa Sadiq we have no reason to deny him. Wait a minute. So that again, Okay, no problem.
No problem. What I'm saying here, my friend, is that the definition that you have just criticized is your definition of our dual wadala. Who is a who is
Yeah, who is just according to your main, one of your main scholars, the same definition you reject is accepted by them. Now of course, how long we've got left.
Woman of course there's verses in the Quran Chapter nine verse 100. Well, our Luna sobre una mujer en el Ansari
Yes. una una Loulou de Mille Marina Alonso, Malaysia, Taiwan BSN, no de la hora de one. This is one verse of the Quran, where it says that the sabich corn, the ones who are the forerunners of dental hygiene of the Maharaja, meaning the ones who did hijra he went from Mecca to Medina. And the answer that Allah is pleased with them, and he's pleased with them. And they are pleased with him. Well, agilon jannette in touch with him and Tatiana, and he is prepared for them. gardens.
Are you rejecting this? Where it says in chapter number? Yes, another verse of the Quran which we'll come to inshallah further.
Yeah, let me know when I've got like, a minute.
Okay, now. So we just saw that you mentioned some points. And we said that this includes anyone that amongst themselves, we see that they were the ones who used to recommend us, for example, and give us the qualities of who to check as to who is trustworthy companion, and they would mention some of them by names. Now, the fact that you Mohammed hijab, in your video, you say it's educational, but you don't even know of our concept of variety. And that's quite problematic. And that is quite concerning for me. Because you said in your video, that according to the Shia tradition, the free who did not become cafard was above average salmaan and method, not to mention, what is the what we
say about this Hadith, we say that this type of error to DOD was pertaining to the hadir pledge, we don't say that all Sahaba became kuffaar, except these free, so please learn that concept if you want to keep insisting on that because I want to know, okay, where are you right or wrong on that point answer that we take, for example. So have you like Jabba Devon, Abdullah Al and Sati, who of course we praise and he was around the time he was very old companion. He was around the time of Mr. Barker alayhis salam, and we also have about to fail. So what we would say is that you mentioned on the video that free Sahaba who are not apostates according to the Shia tradition, you said the Shia
tradition. You are wrong on this point and you don't know
We actually say that there actually were many Sahaba who did come back but what we say that yes after the Prophet Mohammed Salah whenever we say that there was a period of shaken Sahaba we say is obeyed he knows obey For example, He was with him it Allah His Salaam in the early Shia book of Kitab Salaam in the beginning so this hadith is not taken literal in a way that all we believe all of them are far. And one has to have a holistic reading of all that Hadith together to see that we praise our companions. Otherwise, why would we praise jab at him and Abdullah and say, Oh, he's not a car, you know, he's not a carpet or something. We accept him also. So this goes to show that what
you mentioned in the video, and I'm coming to the verses, by the way, La Jolla honeymoon, meaning once you mentioned this, this goes to show that your statement in the video, you're saying it's educational video, now I want you to take it back because you were not aware of the concept we have over the rocky own and those Sahaba who came back, we can say maybe in the hundreds, we don't say all of them. But I'm saying that okay. You mentioned one of the verses, but I'll get on to the verses after that. But I'm saying that what we are saying is problematic is we saying that Okay, we have different
momentum, we are saying us we have different categories of Sahaba. The problem with the selfies is that they tried to say that we don't hold any regard for them. If you go to LFSR you see that there's 12,000 people that Imam Sadiq alayhis salaam Sahih Hadith as well, that he says what pious Sahaba and they did not have any love for the dunya we also have this sahadi of 12,000 we also have here and save it to such idea imams in Aberdeen alayhis salam, he in fact praises the Sahaba and he says those who did well in companionship and left those their homes. So these ones that you're mentioning before we don't negate that we're saying people such as some of your companions, Abu Bakr
and Omar was saying, are they from them? What meaning Are they really movements themselves? So as I said that we respect those Sahaba and the Sahaba above our heads, and nor do we say that, according to what you mentioned in your video, it's an educational video free Sahaba are only Muslims and the rest of our coding Shia tradition. Please answer that.
No.
This just gets I know you don't want me to I know you don't.
Yeah, just Can you just done? Okay. It's done? Oh, yes.
Come on. The first thing he mentioned about the Roger stone, he clarified to me what he meant. He meant the people that didn't do that, basically, were shaken and to death and things like that. That's fine. You will hate to educate me on geometers. What would you think we are here? To be arrogant to to arrogates upon you in terms of your own methods that you've had all these books? Of course, you know more about me than she hasn't? Of course you do. That's why we brought you here, my friend. So of course, where you see that something is not educational. It's your job to try and say okay, well, this is what it means, isn't it? I'm sure you don't know many concepts from a Sony
perspective. So yeah, we can educate each other. No problem. Point number two jabil and sorry, and others, okay. I accept that you accept that there are some Sahaba other than the ones that were mentioned in the Hadith of the three
that are basically Muslim. But here's the point. Listen to this.
Listen to this. You have a hadith which conflict each other. Wait a minute, what did I say? I'll tell you why.
You'll find in, you'll find in a book called AlHassan. Written by alchemy, written or compiled by a company compiled by some sort of why
is coming? Oh, wait, no, no, no, no, because you are pointed out later or this is going to be more time. Okay.
Sorry, sorry. So this is a comic. So okay. You educated me something to do with geometers. And I'll educate you sometimes with shared matters as well. He'll come in and his book AlHassan LFSR. He mentioned the Hadith which is narrated by Abdullah who is Jaffa sodic. Who says
that the Sahaba of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam? What if Mei Ashura elfen if Naoshima elephant means 12,000 I know you love the number 12 we'll come to that 12,000 there many at last 1000 bill Medina tea with Matt Wisner Fannie Mae Cotta and 2000 and NACA well, Fany minutolo car and 2000 from the ones who have ordered tilaka so this is 12,000 mentioned. Now you just said there's a hundreds of sahaabah now according to your books, this is a Sahih Hadith narrated if you look at the books of retail, you won't find any chink in the chain. And by the way, when he talks about the thing that the Hadith about my jealousy before the 17,000 he didn't mention why it's weak.
He just said it's weak.
That's not good enough. We're in an academic discussion. You tell me why it's weak. Anyways, the same thing here if you want to say this is it this week? Tell me why who's weak in the chain? Tell me who's weak. Anyways, you'll find that under joshy all of the regions according to Al Najafi are strong.
So the Hadith is strong. Now, what is more shocking than this, ladies and gentlemen? Is that Joshua sodic?
Yes, he was asked one time about what happened with the prophets, friends, as having to be careful on Sadako. He said Bal Sala, whoa, wait a minute, what does that mean? He said, Did they lie? Were they telling the truth? The Friends of the of the Prophet says they certainly told the truth. He said, I saw so many, between them so much difference of opinion between them, in your own books, is saying Ben Sadako.
He says, But sometimes, you know, you have these situations where you have this situation. Okay, the time is up, so I'm not going to continue. But the Hadeeth is there and is strong.
Okay, can I start?
Yeah. Now basically, what I'm going to say is that you're the one from Mohammed, you're saying this in educational video. So you're giving education to the people about it. It's not my problem. You said all of we we believe all subiaco folks at free. And that wasn't mentioned. Now. What I say about that is that I just I don't know why you mentioned that. Because I just talked about there, maybe because I didn't quote you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I was mentioning the exact same Hadith which is talking in LSR, which is talking about the Sahaba before the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa ala. And we're talking about those who are pious. So this is in that context.
I'm saying after that, that yes, we believe that these Sahaba these ones came back. And this was a point that you mentioned on the video where you said that the Shia tradition is that we believe all worker far except free. So this point is answered you made you admitted you were wrong on it. There's no point and to go more deep. The next point that you mentioned as well is that I believe the narration was weak was actually one of the brothers I believe the narration is Mohammed bin siyar. If I'm not mistaken, I could be mistaken. But he was mixed up with another Narrator And one of the brothers actually here did a research on that. But you've mentioned the verses. So you said
that while they come actually these verses come later, so I'm going to do it in order because it has to be systematic. The next document I say so to sum up that point, I say the she I do not believe that all the Sahaba will call for except free. And that was the wrong information. You gave me a video argument six, you said it alayhis salam said didn't say two three successes. You know, I believe your kafir and this isn't in our books. And it isn't in the books. You said Mr. Mallya Salaam? He said it according to our books. You said he never called Abu Bakr and Omar Cofer. You said that in your video. So what I've done here for you is that this is by one chef chef Daniel pies
although he wrote it before he was a chef. I've marked the Hadith and I've got Hadees here where Mr. Mallya alayhis salam explicitly showed that he believes that Abu Bakr and Omar are disbelievers. So your point in this I'm not going to talk to talk according to your books. I'm saying you said according to share books, that Mr. Medina alayhis salam didn't say them. For example, you look into sudo on me. Even Abbas he asks, Mr. Ali Ali has Salam about those who disbelieved
about the Sahaba excetera. And he says he recites an ayah, sorry about America, and he recites the ayah, about those who
live in a cathedral, and he says about the bay, it's in the context of the beta. So he recites this ayah as an example, to show that those who gave beta to abubaker they have done they have disbelieved themselves. So this would go to show that if the leader himself is, of course, a believer, then those who give beta to him would not be disbelievers. So please, can you give me some clarity according to a point that you said, you know, from our books, Mr. Mandela, his Salaam never called them that and there's many other examples in our earliest book of Kitab, solo fatimata Zara, she said to Kevin Takata. She said that, you know, you've lived in disbelief among Xena The Hobbit
in alayhis. Salaam, according to our book set about our background on MacArthur on Catherine. So he said both of them have caught fire and he gave the final verdict something when he was talking to Alex use, okay, that's not my books. You said in the shower, but go ahead.
I can't I genuinely can't recall. I'm not gonna say I did. I didn't say this. I genuinely can't recall whether I said that in the video or not. Yeah, whether I did or I didn't people can go It's on us on YouTube. It's called the real differences between Johnson. So you can check out the whole video from beginning to end. And of course, you're gonna find out why I said and why I didn't say if I didn't say this. I mean, it's easily I can put it to the side. It was a mistake. I said, It has nothing to do with my overall thesis. Here. You're you're focusing more on my errors than you are on your thesis what you have to prove. that's point number one, point number two, Mr. This is really
interesting. First, you talk about the Hadith that you mentioned, as being not accepted at this dimension. So the three accepts it's not accepted. You said you don't accept only three the Hadith
philistia the
one that you mentioned. So except that is accepted by said it's in the context, okay, finally, but you don't say it's only those three. Yeah. Okay, fine. So you don't say it's only those three. Now, I've quoted you as an aside to sort of the top of chapter nine, verse 100. But we can look at chapter number 48 of the Quran as you wanted me to. First number verse number 18 vs la de la, Nina, Monica, Tasha Halima Murphy follow him. Fans are a second Italian.
That we have, certainly, we are certainly pleased with the ones who who?
Meaning the meaning the believers who gave you they are under the tree. And we knew what was in Dallas. We knew what was in Dallas.
So we brought down the tranquility to them. We gave them a fat party, a conquest. Who is it that the defense
it was all the people you do take it off.
Now, let's be straightforward and straight to the point. You have as in the Quran, you have your own scholarly Hadith that are being authenticated by your Hadees that are saying that there's 12,000 there's 12,000 Sahaba, not a few 100 words as you try to say you have your own hobbies from your own books that say that Jaffa sodic has said that that's the harbor who did laugh with the Navy with the with each other? They are sort of
what have you got to say about that? You have said nothing about that.
You have said nothing you said and our books. Your books are not 100 Jeff for me and the Muslims and the sun is
your Hadees which have been fabricated, and I'll prove it Sharla later on. Your fabricated Hades had nothing to do with me. have zero to do with me. Give me something from Bukhari and Muslim. Give me your strongest possible evidence that those who you call disbelievers. And you had the audacity in your channel to put a fatwa on one of your so called scholars who says let's dig up the graves of of Obama and have a walk. Let's dig up the graves and you put this on your channel. And you guys I don't care the context. This is disgusting, vile things. And furthermore, you put on your Facebook that we have to celebrate the death of Ayesha Give me your strongest evidence that these individuals
aquafarm because the Quran says otherwise. What do you have to say about that?
Now again, you actually contradict yourself, I'm coming to this, if you can see, it's on. Here's the argument. This is what I'm saying you contradict yourself. You're saying I'm focusing on specifics of you. Now? Actually, no, because when we come to a later point, you said in your video, the issue with your thesis, a thesis is that we believe the Sahaba are not Muslim. So you've set it in such a general way that you said we believe the Sahaba are not Muslim, and you've labeled that as our thesis. I'm not just going on particular points. I'm going through all of them. You said it's educational. It doesn't matter if you my books are not a hijab upon you. Because you said okay,
you're using my books. You said it's not in my books. I'm sorry, let me not go into yours. I don't care about that. At the moment. I'm saying you said in your video educational video, it's not in our books, nor it is in their books. I'm saying that after this, I can show you that. That is clearly mentioned in our books. Maybe not 100 sure for you, but you shouldn't have made the statement and then say it's an educational educational video. So another point that I wanted to mention is that yes, you don't take my books, books as 100 just as I read your books to realize why I don't follow your sect and you say my habits are fabricated Well, your head If so, many of them are narrated by
someone such as Abdullah bin Ahmad who said Be it as it was, many of them in fact narrated by Arshad. According to your own heading Sue can be proven as someone who lied and lied to the problem hammer solavei well, so she has no shame in lying to the profit, then, of course, I can't trust many of your gifts that come from her, which the kuffar in fact to use how much time have I got left?
Two minutes Okay, so what I'll do is before I get to the I art that you mentioned we're going to discuss those I want to mention that I have to do it systematically because I don't want concrete my words Okay, so we'll get to them inshallah tada so of course we show again the Mohammed on this video he was wrong about that. He's said educational video. And our books are clear he says it says doesn't say the kafar does many many Hadith arguments seven Mr. La Salaam. He had two sons named Abu Bakr and Omar now you just mentioned that you didn't say okay according to what but can you provide to me a statement where it was out of love for these people that Mr. Mandela Islam name that are
working on our because firstly Abu Bakr as of Konya. Secondly, Omar, we find that Mr. Hassan Allah His Salama for us, a Salafi logic Imam Hassan alayhi salam. He named one of his sons sons, Abdul Rahman and as mentioned in kettlebell earshot, I don't need to get it out as I can show you after if you do want to see it. So
So unless I've got an explicit statement saying that mom had a column for his love for these individuals named them, I can't believe that or even earthman there's a clear head even our books where Mr. La Salaam says I did not name him after earthman, the chief of the kuffar. So you have to show me You said, if you want to use that as a point you didn't mention whose books from show me clearly where Mr. Mandela his salon out of his love for these individuals named in that voice. I say mom has to listen, I'm named Hassan Abdul Rahman out of love for the killer of his father, whose name was Abdul Rahman, the Muslim.
Thank you.
Select your logic, selfie logic, selfie logic. Okay, listen, I'm not here to represent a group of people called the selfies well, like everyone that calls themselves certainly would agree with what I'm saying.
Anyone who calls himself Sunni, or ascribed symbolism to themselves, would agree with what I'm saying today. It's not about self isn't trying to break up trying to create some kind of a breakup within the Muslims and citizens are ridiculous. Don't waste my time. So solitary logic, this is Sony logic. This is everybody. Everybody agrees to this that calls himself Sunni. Everybody agrees to the secular liberals, you wouldn't even agree that the abunda would agree the Salafi would agree the Hanafi would agree, everybody would agree. Everyone would agree with what I'm saying has nothing to do with Salafism. Number two,
the Sahaba not Muslim, you have failed?
Yes, yes. You have failed to provide the evidences. I'm not taking your book as a whole Gemma friend. I take your book as a less 100 in the Bible. Let me just be frank with you. The Bible of the Christians is a big 100 in your book. Don't give me a book as a whole. That Oh, my people said this in my book, it means nothing. Get me from iBooks. Unless you're going to ask me what's in your books. There's no reason for Allah to ask me there's no evidence for what you believe in. Give me a give me evidence. Give me your strongest evidence from
and from the Sunnah. That the kafala that you mentioned, as far as, let's not waste time you said always, you said Sahaba. And you made it general fine. Okay, no problem. You know what I mean? The Sahaba, which we differ about, who we call sahaabah. That's what I'm talking about. Bring the evidences that they are kafar not for SAP. Not that there are evil doers. And we know that some of them drank alcohol. We know that some Sahaba did these things and some of them light. They don't we are not coming from a position where we are saying they're infallible. We are saying they are. Although
they are people of trustworthiness. We are saying innocent until proven guilty, innocent until proven guilty. Give me your evidence as my friend. I said like, you can't just bring upon something like that. Who cares? Even if she did light? Even if she did light? What does that show that she's that she's a liar? That says that she's a catheter, you have not proved your thesis, you have not been able to prove your thesis. And once again, you say, Oh, they only named then the sun's up above normal. Well, give me give me something to show the data of love. Okay, I'm going to call my son tomorrow.
Tony Blair, and I don't know George Bush, but I don't need to do it from love. It doesn't sound normal to you. Does it sound normal for somebody and by the way, I asked him who you also criticizes also have the cornea of abubaker so everyone that you rely upon really has a carryover Walker. Everyone's calling someone ever Walker. So hey, it's not my main thesis. I'm not saying this shows. No, this is just a cherry on top of the cake. Why would he call his sons
why would men marry a Prophet Muhammad's go to daughters, etc.
Okay, I'm gonna have to get on the next point. So yeah.
Okay.
Start now.
Okay, so to my point, as I said, we said because our backers are Kenya it's not confirmed whether Mr. Mandela his Salaam named him some that but as I said, again, okay, I'm going to go with the Sunday logic. I went to sell a few then Mr. Hassan alayhis salam, he named his son after the kill of his father. So as I said, you have to bring a statement clearly showing our blah, blah, blah. That's not important. You said about the IR. And unfortunately, we're running out of time. So basically a la de la jolla meaning. You mentioned something about Arabic earlier tried to give a little sly one. Well, of course, you just construct your own standards because you recited every verse about Sahaba
wrong in that video. And you did say to one Somali Ahmed in Hyde Park that have respect for the Quran recited, correct, that's no problem. The verse says la de la de La Nina meaning first it says meaning, nor does it prove that 114,000 Sahaba according to a theme in masala hartal Hadith that all of them are just rather you go to for example, tuxedo jalallinen mentioned 114,000 Sahaba. Sorry, 101,400 Sahaba. It does not prove that all of them adjust and you said Oh, thank you. You admitted actually that what they mean? He mentioned that in the shadow of a painting
Amy's book where he says it Yeah, some of the Sahaba they did zinna you know, they drank so you know, my myself How am I meant to trust some of these people? How do I know? You know, he wasn't a bit drunk or tipsy when he was narrating a hadith. They said, Well you say about under the tree. Well, what a tablet he came to one of the Sahaba who was under the tree. And he says to him that you do not know what we have done after his death. So close shows clear help cleared out because he says, Oh, you wonder what the ones under the tree were under the tree. So you know, Mashallah. And he says that you do not know what you have done after you. And we also find in Bukhari, as well,
many of these things where the Sahaba it shows that many of them will be taken away from the lake on the lake found Hadith and it shows that many of them would innovate after the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa Allah. But as I said, you were discussing the Shia position. I don't I don't care whether you take my books of Scripture or not, I'm saying that you were saying that this is a Shia position. I'm saying if you want to get the Shia position, you have to get it from my books which you fail to do. So this does not prove and Muhammad Rasul Allah letting me Maharaja detweiler, for this Okay, shall we find that many of the Sahaba Abu Bakr and Omar of man from the Battle of
better Okay, they were forgiven after the handoff, they run away after that on the next battle as well, they also run away as well. And this shows that the pledge of beta for undulatory shutaura was the absence of running away which they did in all of these battles, which shows that the beta can be broken from another verse pertaining to this verse, which shows that the beta can be broken. So you've not proven that all of your Sahaba according to scholars 114,000 just you'll never even prove that from this verse. Because you said it's clear. You said First, we don't believe the Sahaba Muslim that's a problem with your thesis, you said but the Quran makes it clear. Where does it make
it clear here that all Sahaba are believers and don't bring more verses you mentioned these two, you say studied against kuffaar Omar according to authentic Hadees he friend Fatima Zahra. So I would say Salaam Allahu Allah so he was studied against her and not unnecessarily against the kuffaar especially when you're running from battles and other Sahaba witnessed him running away and climbing up the mountain to public.
abubaker as a cornea so okay.
Excuse me, let me let me do the three minutes.
Now, this is he said, Okay, well, we haven't. We haven't what you call it sounds anything to show that he did out of love? He called a buck a buck out of love. And he didn't do the same thing with Ahmad Hmm. Okay. I've just made that point. You don't need to call your sons, both both of your sons. Two names that are literally the two names of your major opponents. Does that make any sense in anyone's head in mind? You said no. It has to be done out of love. Okay. I think really, there was a message that I've never really wanted to send to people like yourself, but you're still not getting to. You are saying that Oh, that you know, to be honest with you. You made
like a two minute conversation or two minute conversation about something which really is neither here nor there. At the end, the last minute is where you really got to the thick of it. Well, you talked about, you know how much the hot tub ran away. Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument, oh, boy, you ran away. Okay. Sometimes in battle you run away. I'm not saying that is the case. We are completely this disregard that. I'm not gonna tell you why it's no, it's a peripheral point. Hey, let's say you run away. Does that make them Catholic? Is that your best shot? Someone runs away from something it makes them Catholic. Okay. Then you start saying I've decided wrong okay. No
problem. I recited wrong. I told you here. This is called an ad hominem attack from a logical perspective where you attack the interlocutor rather than the idea I can recite wrong all the time. I was like, I was just in the car with my with some people and I was reciting, and I recited wrong. It happens all the time, but even happened, according to a study,
study that is neither here nor there. What does that prove? So as soon as it was wrong? Okay. Now, since you're saying that you can recite, right, I challenge you. I challenge you to pick up the phone and recite the first page of sorts of Bukhara. I promised you I believe, based on some of the videos I watched, I'll pick out at least 10 mistakes. And that's my challenge. I'll pick out at least 10 mistakes. Because why? Because if you really wanted an agenda, because this is really what he's asking for. He wants an agenda. He wants an agenda for the Quran, he knows that the Sudanese hold the addresses. So if you wanted to, you can recite the first sort of Bukhara and recite it to
me with good health and the proper way. And in Sharla, if you do a good job, we can give you a gesture for that one. Because I know how awesome is for us and is a is a Sony. And believe me, I believe as a challenge, actually. And then furthermore, he talks about
the amount of being a coward and these things by you, if that's what you believe. So I just want to get this one point. Really? Are you saying that because of your following debate that you personally since you want to do an ad hominem, let's just do it for the fun of it, that you personally have internalized the courageousness of being physically able to fight because if you do say that, I will make another challenge to you my friend, but just to say first of all, my question to you is very straightforward. Are you saying this, or are you not saying this, let's continue
doing this
Okay, so we got past that issue, I'm not able to respond to some of the points on that venture lotta laughter we can give further direct dialogue and uptime. The argument 10 is that you said the third major difference is imama. And this is one that a lot of your sector you'd like to bring up. And you say that the Imams are infallible. Of course, yeah, we believe in fallible, but not in the robotic sense of that they're forced to do that. But rather than they have a special ability, of course, to realize what sins are just like Bravo, Mohammed here, he has the power stuff and Allah to do Xena, he's can do that. But he will never do that. Because you know, of course, there things of it. So,
you know, the bad consequences of it. So yeah, and then you say you have all knowledge and control of atoms. So what I would want to say is, let's not say control of you didn't mention any scholars in there, say who have control of atoms, but let's say control in general.
Let's say Allah gives him some type of control. What's the problem with that? So if you could answer that question, write that down, please. And, of course, in terms of knowledge, you said, all knowledge as well and you actually brought up some ayat at the end? I think I should answer them systematically. inshallah tala, I'll get to that. So what I'll say is that no, what do you base them on having no knowledge of and how do you define them having all knowledge? If you could let me know? And of course what I'd say yeah, I'll bring it to you. Actually. I don't need the free minutes. So you can also
like me, I keep forgetting. I like the microphone. Okay, I'll give it to you.
Okay, the first thing we'll get we'll get into the looping model, as we say, in Arabic here. We're getting to the crux of the matter here.
Elmo feed which is one of the major scholars he says, Man omkara mancora. Mom and Uncle I had them in the IMA. For catheter jacket. Yeah, whoever, whoever does this believe in one of the Imams then he's a Catholic. He's a disbeliever. And the brother in the audience handler is agreeing with that. Now what I'm saying here today, guys, ladies and gentlemen, is that if that is the case, if my salvation as a human being depends upon the fact that I have to believe 12 individuals based starting from alien avatar it up until this what we call a fictional character of Mohammed didn't has last Ascari these 12 individuals, Where is the delille? Give me your strongest person. I'm gonna
say the same thing to you. As I said before, are you able to give you something about running away from the battlefield about the Sahaba? Give me your strongest possible earlier today. And now Hey, hey, hey, give me your strongest possible daily for the magma from the Quran and from the Sunnah. Wait a minute.
From the Quran and the Sunnah that we deem authoritative. I'm ready to become a Shiite today. I'm ready. Give me the Hadith gave me the verse. I'm ready to become a Shiite today, point number one, point number two, really? This whole number of 12 Anyways, let's be honest, I know. But in his book for Shia,
he mentioned that there was a group called El Cap I yeah, who are these group called? kottayam? They believe al Calvin, who was one who was the seventh mm, they believe I'll call them who came up to Jaffa sodic that he was he went into wiba. Wait a minute.
Was hyper he went into disappearance? Meaning he is the melody. So really, they believed in seven a man? No doubt. She Isom has a difference of opinion as to the amount of mmm there are no doubt about that. Look at this male is there a contemporary group? We don't need to go to the books of history and the relics of history. Let's look at the contemporary books we find here. We find it's so clear for everyone to see
that the difference of opinion on how many how many idioms There are even so here we talk number one about Give me the lien number two. That's my first objection. I'm ready to become shy today. I'm ready to become Shiite today. Let's do it. Just give me the delito from Quran and Sunnah and Matata we can even say the sooner the authoritative one. I'm ready for anything you throw at me. And remember as I was up
half a minute, and remember that you did have Philip your earliest gi your earliest gi people. They didn't believe in 12th they believed in seven the kataya believed in seven Solomon Solomon but in a case who wrote a book one of the earliest gi books he believed in 13 that his mind is believing eight Don't tell me about 1212 a man what's 12 Come on. Come on. Now Moreover, it's okay. Okay, so
Okay, so of course you didn't ask me on that regarding the problem about control because you see a problem with it and I think it's quality to Mohammed hijab subjective opinion. But what we say is I'm not saying that I myself okay control of atoms. I'm saying anything better than Allah. We say that Okay, no problem. If it's
vanilla and Allah loves it that's fine I mean for example in your own hadiths you say that the job I've got the references that he can kill people and give life to them back so if I was used to use okay let's say I went I'm gonna say Salafi or say Sunni way of thinking, I would say that the job is Allah because if you go to the anti Shia websites you will say Oh, they have a particular control but in vanilla just like he Salah his sermon the Quran, he can create the if and Allah so this is Crawford and shirk brothers is confidential but when we look in your head if we find in I believe so how Muslim Maharashtra after the Jalan fact himself can kill someone and bring him back to life so
with that reason I say that the job is Allah we find again your Sahaba okay for the amounts to have control but isn't the local foreign shirt but the Sahaba here say such a sad WWF pass he can walk across water he can do some type of David Blaine and magic trick and walk across water others can revive dead donkeys so what we say is when it comes to you saying oh oh they control the atoms I said What's your point? Is it okay if it's bit Isn't it your say an argue to me that no this is the vanilla This is cut our mouth I will say that yes we say the same thing about the moms if we say they have any particular ability and regarding your initial thing about your mama you said the front
you didn't say bring howdy if you were saying where is in the crowd in any way you try to say that okay, if it's not in the front in any way. Yeah. Like you try to use it in a bad sense but your own scholars say for example, Abdul Aziz Adana we in Nigeria he says clearly that women's women's ability I think Rania that motto water if it's got to do from the profit confirm performance profit, it has the same status as I have the haoran ll been here the high def is proof of loss itself. He clearly shows that hoverwatch should be taken an Akita and if I asked you the sufficiency part of Allah subhana wa Taala that that will lead to what you prefer from Quran asks you about the
battletech, the two angels interrogating you can't prove that from the Quran at all. So I was saying that I do, of course believe in karma to be from the Koran. But if I were to not even prove from the Quran, and just matamata narrations or even from Hubbard or Whitehead, there would be no problem at all because your own scholars except that and that's your standards. But, of course, I'll go to the next How long have I got? half a minute. So then you said okay, of the next, you mentioned the things about the moms and when you say if we look at the beginning of the end of it, we don't find any of the 12 names of the moms in the Koran as mentioned in any explicit name, I say it doesn't
matter. We don't need to have names and just have the Koran which was seemed to be your initial argument that you use, and many of your own scholars as well say the person can't be a man if he like, if he does not believe in Quran with the Sunnah. So both of them can be proved in that way. But what I'll do is that I'll address your arguments because you didn't bring any specific AI out in the video to say, Okay, let's discuss these. I'll address your arguments
of how you negated Emma from our sources. And
let me start by addressing what you said. And this is something I am doing with you that you have not necessarily done with me. I've asked you a variety of questions in this evening's discussion we've talked about, give me why you don't believe for example, the pedal it sorry, if you didn't answer, then we talked about, give me something from the Quran that talks about mmm Oh, from the Hadees no answer. But so you don't want to answer me this shows, to be honest with you that there is no answer. that's point number one. Point number two. Really? He's talking about some kind of control. Okay. This is what they call related. tarquinia Yeah, well, you have the ability to control
things. Now. Listen, listen to me. This is not what I said. I didn't say anything about control to some control. I said all ability to control
a lot of things Holla Holla Holla. at him I don't see a difference. La la la casa Bella. Well, I I really don't see a difference between this and I want you this is a challenge is a question. My question to you is tell me the main difference between this.
And subordination is Christianity. You basically believe and it's mentioned in caffeine. Bad alga is exactly what the name of the Bible is in Arabic, but the door the chapter of when the Imam wants to know something, he'll know something. This is colony's opinion. Whenever someone wanted to know something, he will know something
to understand.
That means to say that you're talking about knowledge, controlling knowledge, that means to say that it's in the capacity of the Imam that hola quwata illa BelAir to have the same knowledge as Allah. I'm sorry, that's just because it may lead it doesn't solve the problem. This is why I say what is the difference between the opposition and the subordination is arion Christian, who believes that there is a hierarchy where you have the father on top, and the Holy Spirit and the son on the bottom, and that everything happens with the will of the Father, yet they're equal in terms of their abilities. If you're saying that the mom has the ability to have own knowledge, and if you're saying
that Allah has the ability to have ownership, I'm sorry, but this is means there is equality in that. You have not I've given you the references and colonies book is actually a chapter heading.
Now Moreover, you'll be surprised, I believe so panela that the magma thing is actually a matter of there has been a historical development. And I'll give you an evidence of that. And evidence of that is a hadith which is narrated by
Ali bin Ibrahim and Avi
and Abdullah bin Johnson. This is an in cafe, call Sal to Abba Hasson. He said, I asked about Hassan and such that he shokri about the subject of shock.
So he said, you have to say, you know, you have to say, you know, I thank Allah and the angels under whenever you can water, silica, and the newbies and also the same way actually comes up to 11 john, john, john
Donovan, john Davina and Mousavian Jafar. And then he said the same way we're not mentioning the names of the Imams. This shows anachronism.
Can I finish my place?
Okay.
Yeah, yes. And how many more minutes if we got because I haven't got to mention my points.
I'm very disappointed this happened. I wanted you know for discussion.
Okay.
Okay, now I'm gonna start off kind of slow on some of them, I have to finish what I can use in besar. Besides Tara jar, there's a whole chapter which clearly shows that there is hidden knowledge which the mom can never have. So we see that this knowledge of Allah subhanho wa Taala gives it there's no problem as I said, you want the job has powers, of course, giving life to people once he killed them. And we said that no, I'm talking about particular control your Sahaba can walk across the water, revive their donkeys and even in this book as well, in the shot of containing this book by author. I mean, it says that the miracles for Moosa some of the miracles when they see the
patisserie, make greater miracles happened on this semester, some of the greater miracles happened on the Sahaba, where they had particular control of creation, you said the Kitab, salaam thing in your point before, that's a slip of the pen 13 imaams. In fact, in the same book, you'll find where it mentions 12 months. So what are scholars say is that yes, it could have been a slip of the pen about that, but it doesn't mention and athma did Hassan cultists, they tried to use this to say that. There's another imaam after that. And you said vanilla? No, we said that. Yeah, our last panel Atala bit of vanilla. If it's not something, for example, we say that it would put them in lordship
with him, then there is no problem in doing that. If they can get knowledge from Allah subhanho wa Taala, which is knowledge inherited from the previous prophets, peace be upon them all, then there's no problem at all. And that's not putting any partners. And you also try to negate the concept of karma in your video by mentioning katapola Haber by falsey. You said that incunabula A by mom has an Alaska he didn't have any sons. Anyway, this is what used to negate your mama. First, you should have read the title of the book, which is a labor, which means that chef tosses what he's a chef for what sake, of course, the twelvers the book is dedicated to the whole environment. He's also got a
chapter where he says refutation of those who say that your mom Hassan al Askari alayhis salam does not have a son. So I believe from this book, you read one of the quotes from the Arabic forums, I searched it, and I was reading it, while reading it where it says that the Imam did not have them. There was no signs of pregnancy towards the end of his death. That's fine, because we see that that birth was hidden just like the birth of Prophet Ibrahim alayhis salaam, and of Prophet Musa alayhis salam. And then we have Qatar frederika. Shia, you said that Abdullah bin Saba. There's actually a whole chapter in here, which says that actually, the first sect was above admit that salmaan They
were the first sect of the Shia. So the one that you mentioned about Abdullah bin Saba, and you said that, you know, this is one of the theories that was talking about some people who heard stories about that, in our books, Abdullah bin Subbu is completely condemned. So what you did for these two books is that you try to negate our concept of Mr. Mo by saying first Mr. Hassan Alaska, Islam, he doesn't have a son. The whole book is dedicated to him. And then Mr. You said that it was started by a Jew, we said, is finished.
We finish
your last speaking, you're finishing off.
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
Let's finish off by saying because unfortunately, some disturbances have happened around us. A lot of people have come around. Now let me tell you something. Let me tell you something right here and right now. We've just compared and I don't know if she eyes are watching, I'm gonna find that offensive compared. She has him with Christianity. I've done it. And I asked him the question, what's the difference between Shia Islam and subordination is Christianity, and he hasn't really answered that. What is the main conceptual theological differences? There's no really there is not many, many. The same thing can be said about 50
And he can make the same excuses that oh, you know, there's some things that divine Jesus doesn't know. Anyways, we won't go into that. I want to ask you another question. Obviously you don't believe that man is a Muslim? You don't
know you don't. Okay? Why is he not Muslim because they believe in another prophet that's coming up to the Prophet Mohammed, however you find is a girI of
a hadith which is read. And Ahmed bin Mohammed bin Abdul Nasir, and Taliban maimunah ma moon. He said, Okay, this is a hadith. He asked one of the one of the, what is the fork? What is the difference between the men and the prophets? Listen to this. Do you know what he said? He said, in a nutshell, the difference is that the Imam can see there the Prophet can see the angel and the Imam can see the angel. And we know and she thought that the Imam is actually higher than the prophet of anything. So what's really the difference? and How dare you? I mean, what right do you have to make fear of someone who's saying there's a new prophet? And you're saying there are basically people
that are higher than prophets that came up to the Prophet Mohammed, why does this make any sense to you? Does this make any sense to you whatsoever? I'm sorry, it doesn't make any sense to me and the rest of the listeners, I believe you believe me that she is here? Well, I apologize that she is if I've come across as a passion obviously, the reason why I've become very passionate this time is because of the things that have been said by this group, but very taking up the entrails of a lot of other walking and armor and you know, let's let's empty the graves very extreme things that celebrate the death of Ayesha, let's do all these things. But today, Al Hamdulillah. Gerald, Huck
was a hotbed. The truth has come into force it has perished or life, a truce, Shia. The two things I want to announce if it's true, Shia has any kind of question, please visit twelver shia.net who's up? partners will handle the lead. They've done a great job in helping us they are the best English resource. They are the best English resource about refutations of Shia, visit them. And also, of course, watch the rest of our videos, no doubt. And also, of course, just ponder over well, like, if she comes to me and ask me any question on Instagram. I'll answer
okay.