Reacting to Dr. Zakir Naik’s Science and Quran #2

Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah castle. Welcome to our second episode where we're joined Bible Sofia, how you doing?

I know everyone here since they've seen an episode of you before, they're going to go to your channel now, which is under description link, and they're going to subscribe because you're going to what are you doing? Generally speaking, you help them with that we're going through in a contextualized

knowledge, some knowledge. So we're gonna go through the very basics of knowledge, consensus living here in the West, in delivering quite unique format that I don't believe has been done before. And inshallah just to build students of knowledge to build general awareness amongst us being Muslims, and something that I believe is much needed, much needed in the West. Okay, fantastic. Having said that, what we're doing in this series is we're basically going through the template of Deccan likes,

scientific miracles, and we're also seeing those who attacked the whole scientific miracles, narrative, and what kind of system systematically going through actually the balanced approach in dealing with these things, both from the perspective of people who are claiming that there are scientific miracles and those who are claiming that there are scientific errors? I think that there is a problem with both of those approaches. Let's look at something that's okay. Like I said, in terms of one of his most famous speeches is

his Quran and science compatible and compatible, let's take a look at this. Because today is not the age of literature and poetry today is the age of science and technology. So let us analyze today whether this glorious Koran is compatible or incompatible to modern science, whether does it pass the test of today? Hey, guys, basically, the premise here, I think the presupposition is that the Quran ought to be 100%, consistent with modern day science. And why is this a flawed premise? Because you're taking science now as something being undeniable, unquote, truth? Yeah, no, you're applying that to the unreality is that there is nothing as you covered before in previous videos,

okay, there is nothing that is considered an undeniable reality. In science. It's something that is, you know, changes constantly from day to day. And you can't say that there's 0% error in anything. Yeah. And it's interesting to some books that were written. And we do reference them a lot and of polemics. For example, one of them was called the structures of scientific revolution, by Thomas Kuhn, who talks about the change in science. And he actually refers to it as a paradigm shift. So science is not only not only the scientific facts change, and I'm using the word facts, normally, quote, unquote, scientific facts change. But the whole framework within which science operates in is

also can also can change. So the point being, is that we cannot use science as a definitive measure of truth, since it itself is not definitely true. I can apply that to the Quran, which we believe is the word of Allah, the speech of God, right, which is undeniable truth. Exactly. And and you cannot say that this is what a last minute element in this particular verse as a matter of 100% percent certainty, okay, and I was going to ask you, also, on that point, could this might sound a bit controversial, but the fact that you've put science as or you call lucky, meaning 100% certain truth? And you made the Quran in the first instance? lunney? Could this be a kind of what is this,

it's, I don't want to use any strong terms, but without a shadow of a doubt, or something completely incorrect. And it does fall into speaking about a loss out of that knowledge. And it may be a certain aspect of this, a certain aspect of of disbelief into this as well, but it certainly is not the message, or the way hold

on to how he interpreted and how the scholars and the companions and those that came often through the Quran. Okay, perfect. Now, let's go straight into it. Today we're going to talk about the celestial orbits of the of the sort of the heavens right? Or what some of those talking about, and not only celestial objects, what the shapes of those celestial objects are, the cosmos and its reality, according to the Quranic narrative, and not only what the proponents of the scientific method, scientific miracles narrative say about it, but also those detractors of Islam say about it. So let's, let's take a look at some of the things the first thing we're going to talk about is

chapter 36 of the Quran, verse number 40, which is sort of the SEM where it says a sham surgery must occur now that the sun runs to it's a fixed time was a time determined, right?

fixed point even though almost a car could it mean time and place? Exactly. You know, this is

when he says that there are two meanings for this verse, right one is a particular place, and another is a particular time.

The particular place equals some simple quality, where the hadith of Abu Dhabi, Allah have mercy upon him. He calls what are some lows and and see that of course the sun, it goes to beneath

Beneath the throne of Allah subhanaw taala. And where he was asked, Where does the sun prostrating, this is beneath?

Okay. And the other opinion is that it is it travels to the end of a particular time, which is of course, the date.

Okay, here's some people, they talk about geo centricity using the hadith of upazilla. 44 refers to the Hadith. Let's refer to the Quranic discourse itself like let me give an example I saw to Sham scepter 91 of the Quran or Shams you have to have a comment either today or not today. Well, lately they all share here I mean, there's this is cool disorder of the sun. It's called the sun right? It says what shapes you have to have the sun as a kind of projectors light

will come together and the moon as it follows the sun when the How did they July? And the day as it projects the light what will either shine the night as it kind of covers the sun? Here? There isn't. I mean, it could have said simply spoken it could have said as the sun goes around the Earth. Is there anything as high or as straightforward as that in the Quran? Well, it definitely references a geo centricity. And at the same time, we'll ask you, is there anything as straightforward as saying, actually the earth goes around the sun, there is nothing straightforward clear in Rhonda references either of these things, okay. Now, this is important to understand, because again, if we do that,

then we're falling into what we said at the beginning of the video, which shouldn't be done by using the Quran, the sciences as a base of the modern day science as a base and applying them onto them. Okay, now, there are items that could be interpreted this way and it could be interpreted that way. Okay. So for example, going back to that Sora I found something which is what could I

have ignored? Even my best I think isn't.

Okay, so it says in chapter 36, verse 40, there's a camera. And some have said that this is the interpretation of both, if not best, and massages, were the first chance to test successfully, it was shrimps allegedly Mr. Corolla is also a sham surgery, Lamaze Takara law that the sun runs, and it doesn't have a place of saying precise. So this would support the heliocentric model, it would support it yet, but it's important to mention that some of them might have also said that this isn't a is this week that we can disintegration or this type of back to this hallowed back to diversity so that we can do yeah, some of them did, but not that. They said that it was a way in how he explained

the verse, right? I mean, how he explained why I mean, so this does show from from one perspective that I mean, the Quran is not being clear cut either way. With geo centricity versus Helios interested in what about the Hadith because it's had its does is one of the main Hadees, as used by the scholars that do believe and just interesting to me, by the

let's say that the two tracks of Islam that is that a lot of fun.

So doesn't that suggest that you're interested in because as well as the sun goes underneath the arch?

But then again, you know, this is again, it's something from the unseen, we have no knowledge of, yeah. And you can see that this is from the label, we affirm it, and we believe in it, and the Cave of it is unknown to us. So it doesn't tell us exactly that the sun, the sun is going around the Earth in an orbit in that way. Okay, there's something about

how it is.

What's really interesting is that was what you wanted to practice of Islam. Actually, this was one of his videos now. He was one of his clips. He was saying that according to the Quran, the sun has no revolution. It has no rotation. It has absolutely nothing. Let's see what he says. The verse you just cited makes absolutely no mention of the Sun spinning on its own axis. Not a single exegesis in Islam makes this claim either the Quran is clearly geocentric. idiotic, you're honest clerics who don't try to change the meaning of verses in the Quran agree? So here he says that it makes no mention of it spinning around its own axis. This person it says that the sun according to the Quran,

it makes no mention of it spinning around its own axis by Hey, I mean when I was looking at this I see it and maybe you can help us with was actually written with Sham surgery. Mr. Curry law chapter 36. Verse 40, what does it have to say about this

Ibis has to say and this is not only an investment of is that it is something that consistently is moving. Okay, it is moving. Yeah. So how long has it hasn't been made clear to us how the movement actually happens with its on its own orbital with it as it moves around itself.

When he says something about the spinning wheel, spinning wheel, this is mentioned by Toby and others, but this wasn't the only interpretation. Okay, there were many others but this goes back to the numbers. This goes back to investment.

Okay, so there is so it's not fair for me to say this the tract of Islam to say that there is no mention in the Quran whatsoever of ignorance. And it kind of ignores all that FSU. Absolutely, I mean,

all of them are moving

on. This means everything that came before in the same verse, meaning the night and the day, the sun and the moon. So in fact, as it pleases move on or every single thing mentioned in this I

Interestingly enough, so you're saying here that there is references to movement, but it's not specific enough to tell us what kind of movement is whether it's Hilo centric movement or geocentric. And this is something again, supported by many, many, many other, which is really interesting because then you could approach the Quran from any perspective once again, go into a multi layered kind of multi dimensional approach, that if you're someone who's a desert Arab, who did believe in just intricity, they don't have to do mental gymnastics, and others do the same number of different pondering of different understandings. And at the same time, if you're someone

of our times, you don't need to reject to listen to it in a sense, you can believe in heliocentrism and still have make sense of the clinic notes

from the miracles, okay, so you'll see, every time and place that's what you're seeing the edges is suitability, okay? And this is the miracle. Okay. Now, let me ask you a question. Now, go into another issue of,

of the shape of the Earth itself. Now some have made the criticism, then the Quran is very clear that the earth is flat, actually. And look, let's take a look at the clip. As he says, well, the Quran clearly states the earth is flat, like the carpet, or a wide expanse in 18 Quranic verses. So in addition to saying that the earth is flat, this individual who thinks he's got the grasp of the world on which the head or the vessel, he also goes on to say that the earth is on the back of a whale, and this is supported by Hades, let's take a look at what he has to say about that. Then he created the noon, which is the whale, then he raised the water and created the heavens with it, and

laid the earth on the back of the new moon, the new moon moved, and so did the earth. So it was fixed down with mountains. So okay, this this, this took a lot. Yeah.

It's astounding. it's astounding because when he's quoted this from a bvmi, poverty and others, then the same people that quoted then again, say, this is from the most ridiculous things that I've ever heard of the author of the book has said this himself.

So this quote shows that Oh, of course, it's not something that's authentic. It's viewed as formally fabricated. Yeah, ridiculous. So this hadith is not something we it's not. It's not it doesn't go by server. It doesn't go back authentic. numbers, numbers, it's possible that it may be But either way, if this was take from this, right yet, this was a firm, this is a firm better source of knowledge and know that it's much more, okay. Okay. It's not something we accept as religion. Absolutely.

Okay. And in fact, you find the opposite of this, you find the opposite of this, for example, she was looking at me, he quotes from her saying, even Nadia from the US had the Companion of the students from the third fourth century. And he quotes he quotes that there is no difference of opinion amongst the scholars of Islam

that the earth is is round, Round.

Round, okay, so the summer is round, and others such as

heaven, yes, the heavens chef has done herself, it hasn't really, you can actually call both the US and they haven't as round there is a near consensus about this, they quote a consensus Okay, on this, which is very, what kind of verses that I use the quote from the cover letter and then

we cover on

the court, so and the earth and sorry, the sun when it is

literally any given by

a man being wrapped around something like

this indicates that something is self asserted. So here's I can I can actually write let's take a look at some of the things he says. He says. Let's take a look. He says on this on this issue, previously, the human beings we thought

that the earth on which we live, it is flat.

It was in 15 177. So Francis Drake, when he failed around the earth, He proved that the Earth was spherical.

For Ron mentions

in Soloman, chapter number 31 was number 29. It is Allah subhana wa Taala

who merges the night into day and merges the day into night.

alum Tara and Allaha julija Layla in the village in the heart of Li Li. It is Allah subhanho wa Taala who merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night. Merging is a gradual and slow process the night slowly and gradually merges into the day and the day slowly and gradually merges into the night. If the earth was flat, there have been a sudden change it would have been a gradual process of night merging the day and day merging to the night.

Allah gives a similar message in sort of a Zoomer chap number 39 was number five.

It is Allah subhanho wa Taala

who overlaps the night and to the day and overlaps the day until the night that Arabic word used your as kawara which means to

Lack of oil. The Quran says it is Allah subhana wa Taala or lapse of coils the night into the day and overlaps or coils the day into the night

coiling The word kawara is used how you coil a turban unto your head.

So, this overlapping and coiling of the night and to the day and the day and to the night is only possible if the shape of the Earth was spherical. If it was flat it was not possible.

And Allah for the same incident has yet chapter number 79 was number 30 we have made the earth as an expanse and we have made the earth x shaped

what are the bothers olika? What are the bothers olika the haha means and then we made the earth x shaped one of the meanings of the heart is an expanse and the other meaning of the Arabic word

it is derived from the Arabic word which means any so as you can see here as I can like as mentioning these verses, but at the same time he mentioned chapter 79 verse 30, which will have dividers delicate the hair. And he says that this shows that there is like an ostrich egg. Is this the right kind of evidence to take?

Again, it comes down to you perhaps placing something that may not be the Yeah, yeah. And you're forcing it forcing it to sit there not necessarily Is that right? Okay. So

it's possible it could be it could mean this. But the problem that he's falling into is by seeing this is the meaning of right. Okay, so, and this has been capitalized upon, by the way, the director of Islam who said that there's no way of this verse, meaning that the earth is round. But what this other person hasn't seen that the truth of Islam is that actually there are other verses that do substantiate Islamic history and heritage of the scholars who support this. Okay? So hey, the idea that the earth is round is supported by the Quranic discourse. Absolutely. Okay. And it's not something which is and the fact that you have a huge amount of consensus, which, again, is evidence

in Islam, what I find really striking about this is that here, you have these issues.

The, you know, the revolution of celestial bodies near the roundness of the earth, the celestial space itself, the cosmos, and these things, all of them, it seems to me like it's not, it can be interpreted in the light of 21st century science, it can be.

And so from a credit perspective, if someone for example, is in the 21st century living, and they want to, and they believe that science is something of a yardstick, then they they're forced to kind of the Islamic direction rather than Christianity, which is very clear about the earth being flat in chapter nine, verse six and other places. So here, once again, there's no what you called that wheel. There's no way of interpreting this verse in any other way. And it's clear flat.

Yes, clearly the earth is flat and the Bible's got pillars, whereas in the Quran is you can interpret it quite clearly as people in the past have done as being round. Okay.

Another thing I want to say to you some people mentioned this as well, which talks about, basically a fourth option for 35 of the Quran. And so I think social hedges will work in two different terminologies or kinds of phrase, ologies, it mentioned this, the summer, falling on the earth,

sort of a Hydra, and

the heavens will fall upon the earth without his permission. And it sort of felt

lost.

Right, so it doesn't once again to follow what does that mean? So, it comes down to zula is a word from someone right now. And others have said that Zola has a number of meanings, it has a number of meanings, it could mean literally disappearing, it could mean something being corrupted, its mechanism and its processes. You know, so these own meanings that can be applied here. As far as it could mean word for word means knows what it means something that is falling. So what they say is that the Quranic depiction of the heavens is like a block. And the earth is falling on the earth in a sense, like it's a solid object is one entity, right? So, first and foremost, can estimate mean

that everything above the of the earth and including like the

Islamic explanation to understand this, yeah, the reality is if you have a grasp of Arabic and a very basic grasp, but don't blend you will understand this

was a Sunnah smme, indras Elif, and there is a lamp before the word summer. This again indicates what's generated encompasses absolutely everything right could mean something in particulars for everything. Yeah, and anyways, and physics says you have like this old argument between Leibniz and Newton, who likeness believed in the relative the relativity of space, like between objects and Newton believed in the, the the absolute nature of space, in a sense that it has a fabric that there's a fabric of space, which is an entity interval, and this is this conversation.

still being had in physics. So even if if even if you want to force that kind of narrative discourse, it's not really that problematic because these conversations are being held anyways. Yeah. So it seems to me like, what's really, really interesting here is we'll come to a conclusion that says, We don't need to force scientific meanings on the Quran. But we can interpret the Quran in a way, which is scientific, which goes back to this stuff, sort of like the classical scholars so understood in this way. Yeah, it's similar

to that again, you know, and Magellan Corrado. Okay, who

he is the one who made the Koran. Yeah, and this is another good point. There's another point that the detractors used to say that the earth here is being depicted a stationary station, right. So now the reality is many of them said that this doesn't indicate this. In fact, I've not come across any what I have come across are those that say this means that the earth is stationary enough for us to live on. constantly moving. No, we can't live. So it's nice, but it's relative to humans relative to us living now. That's what

an earthquake happening right now. No, yeah, no.

And this is what many poverty causes to be the great upset, because what they're trying to say is that look, we know the earth is revolving around its axis. So for you to say stationary would be contradictory to what we know. So this is

very strange.

So you're saying that the voice was saying by static, is that a static relative to us living now? And that's what was the reason?

Okay. Hello. Just one more thing.

as I can, like, does make interesting stuff. So let's take a look at what he says. He says the sun is running in a particular way and to a particular place. Let's see what he says. Go on, give this a minute message.

JACK number 36, was dominated by shumsa Tajima speaker a law that the sun is running its course for a period determined to a place determined, the Arabic word used here is must occur, which has two meanings. Either it means for a period determined, or it means to replace data mined. And today, science says that the sun is moving to a particular spot known as solar picks, and it will exist for a particular time period. So both the meanings of must occur to a place the domain and for a period at a minor point the science is perfect. So as you can see here, we're saying that the sun was was chumps with a jelly monster currently that the sun is running to a place determined that he says

here, that's the solar apex. Is that something which then funnily enough said, you can say that the eye is open to this, okay, is open to this. But again, you cannot have absolute certainty that this is what this Yeah, we know that what didn't, didn't say that the sun is going towards until the day of judgment, yes, to the Day of Judgment, this is a particular time, this particular place below the below the throne of Allah spot. And so that's what we can do. Allah encompasses all of them, because it is

the south, and it's the subsurface, the roof, all of the all of the creation is built out of this. Yeah, it's not not one of them is the shape of that. Like, some say it's like a chute. It's like a horseshoe. And this is difficult to do just one, but it's supported by pillars, and it's supported by angels that are holding the option. Okay, so something we can't even imagine.

Okay, amazing.

Yeah. See, there's anything else? I think here. Exactly, like puts it in a good way he says, and he was they'll say this a second ago. He says, Let me remind you that the glorious Koran is not a book of signs, Sc, n z, but it is a book of signs, f i g. So as you can see here, it says that we should we should never look at the Quran as a book of sign a science, SCI MC, what we should look at as a book of science as it is. It's amazing that you said that. It's true, isn't it? It's true. Yeah, it's true. The Quran isn't a book of science. It's a way of life a way of leading us to a loss and to living here on Earth. How I lost My son wanted us and how one the reason why he creates a loss

and it's a book of guidance. And this is this is really the summary of, of science. And well, guys, this has been a pleasure to have you here. First of all,

you guys are going to subscribe to his pages, he's going to be in the description box and obviously, you would have been clicking the subscribe for my channel already.

In the next episodes, we are going to we're going to continue and just schematized kind of systematic way. What we want to do is we want to get through the bulk of this want to get through the bulk of these and so that everyone bait we're trying to build a kind of a reference library. So hopefully you benefited Santa Monica when I was lying.