Reacting to Dr. Zakir Naik’s Science and Quran #1

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Mohammed Hijab

Channel: Mohammed Hijab

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

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Face

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it

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with me,

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gentlemen, and welcome to our first episode of our assessment of the scientific miracles narrative. Basically, as a precursor, first of all, let me introduce you

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to

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my pleasure, man. Got another video of you in one of my other videos. Welcome to

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doesn't know what we're doing. And before we start is what we're doing is we're going through systematically, the claims made by both Muslim propagandists and non Muslim propagandists to try and assert that there was what they would refer to as a either scientific miracles of the Quran or be scientific areas are local. And most of them use a very similar strategy, in a sense, and then they go to the old dexa, Jesus is with a facet of the Quran, and they try and pick out that which either goes in line with science or contradict science. What we're going to do, hopefully, to start off with is discuss I'll just refer you guys actually to something we've already done with sub sub, or

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who's who's kind of you might know him for his

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polemics against evolutionists and his debates with the evolutionists? Well, we kind of have to kind of conclude what he said, we, we concluded that in terms of science, in the philosophy of science, the highest form of science, the strongest science, you could say, is observational science. So if you have a vase, and you drop a vase, and the vase breaks, this is something which is observational, literally, you can see, it's an observation right? Now how the vase breaks in terms of the theory of gravity, or theories of gravity. That's, that's, that's changed. You know, there was first Newtonian understanding, and then an Einsteinian setting, for example, right? So theories are not as strong as

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observations, but even observations we concluded can change as well. And one of those examples is the sun.

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It was observed to be static, irrespective to the earth and then it was observed to have his own rotation around itself and in the Milky Way. So the point being, everything in science can be criticized and science is not incorrigible in the sense that it can change. So that's the first really important point that we have to make when we're discussing these things. Now, the thing is, what was happened is, there was a person named as Moore's Law, wrote a book, which was, he was a French Egyptologist, and he went to Egypt and these things, and he found Ramses the seconds. Bosnian. Yeah. And all these things. I'm not sure you've read his book, but it's what his book was

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called as the Bible, Koran and science. And it was a comparison around the Bible, and the scientific method. And what's happened is, this has been translated into what is referred to as book Why isn't, yeah, and probably the biggest advocate of his books, or his kind of material is down material Exactly. And like, everyone probably knows who I'm talking about, I can, I can sort of, if not the most, one of the most influential, the most influential, propagator of Islam, in terms of

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the Tao world.

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When I say influence, I mean effect on people. He's had the most effect on people in terms of the dour and probably the whole of the world. Now, for this reason, we're going to use the second like template, and we're going to go through some of the things that he's he said, we're going to scrutinize it. But we're also going to see what other people have said on the other side who scrutinize it in a way, which we believe is also unfair. And that way we're trying to what we're trying to promote here is a watertight argument, which we can use as Muslims in the Dow, but also to kind of understand this whole phenomenon in and of itself, whereby it's going to be very difficult

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for people to try and unpack it. And to try and say this is wrong, right? So what we're going to be doing is we're going to be referencing the classical deficit, meaning the classical exigencies, right, because they cannot have been impacted by the scientific narrative by virtue of the fact that they came before science had discovered things about science. We're also going to go systematically through the supposedly scientific miracles in a thematic way. So in the first episode we're doing today is about prediction of the Hamiltonian. So let's get straight into this right? Let's see, first of all, what is that, like has to say about the creations of the heavens and the earth? And

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let's see what what actually we can make of this. There was a secondary separation,

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which gave rise to galaxies, the stars, the planets, the sun, the moon, and the earth on which we live. This they call as the Big Bang. The Glorious Quran

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mentions this in a nutshell 1400 years ago, and so the ambia chapter number 21 was the machete so as you can see here, he's talking about the Big Bang and and his his claim is that the Big Bang can be found in the Quranic discourse. Yeah. What's your what's your position on everything? I think it's important before we go into that to talk briefly

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About how we should view the modern day scientific theory in comparison with the Quran. And I think the reality is that to place a fundamental guiding overarching principle would be to say that, you know, this is something between two opposites that the truth is always in the middle. Yeah. And, you know, many of the logical principles are mentioned by scholars who specialize in tafsir. And what we call it a certain enemy, or the scientific tafsir, which we see being propagated by many, many quarters of Islam such as I can like, and the summary is that if there is something and you covered this, I think it's a wonder if there is something which is an undeniable scientific truth or reality

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observation. And it's unquestionable, and it's proven, it's accepted and agreed upon, then the iron question may be may be interpreted according it may be accepted accordingly, then it's possible if we can do that, and we can interpret accordingly, but we cannot unequivocally state that this is what Allah meant in this ayah. And it's important to not say this, because we haven't got a clear text that says Allah is meant to say this, right. So for example, taking this a chapter 21 verse 30, right, first of all, is there anything I said which correspond to the, to the people, you see,

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many of them have seen many of the scholars have spoken about science, and there isn't a one single agreed upon interpretation of this even back in the day even back you know, 1000 years ago, he mentioned Mr. Cyr very famous stuff says qualities of certain Kabir he says that he mentioned roughly about four four or five different types of stuff said one of them is that last monitor to Allah says Kanata Ratan Tata human that the heavens and the earth were a single entity or a single entity perfect upon a human setup is the opposite. So, that is to join something together unfettered and this is of course, speaking the Arabic language physical is to take it apart. Yep. So, this is

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one interpretation given and he quotes from our bus, the famous companion and others from the early generation had this how had this opinion, the other quite famous opinion on this idea, and this is the, according to the majority of the people have to says, is that the heavens and the earth,

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they were joined together, they were one thing in terms in reference to its hardness and reference to his perfectness Yeah, and then allows him to have separated between them by via the characteristics. So, he gave the heavens or the sky as we refer to it, the sky over the earth, the characteristic of having rain and raining and the auto the earth by letting plantation and growth grown it Yeah, and this is supported by the following either comes after or dynamic pollution, and we make everything

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we make everything from water, every living thing from water. So, every living thing has a characteristic that it has water in it. And this propagated and this is supported by many, many of them officesuite on another interpretation given by a Muslim as for honey, is that what fed could mean it could mean metaphor, meaning that something was something was created, something is created out of nothing. So here you see lots of dots confetti, are complete opposites, meaning that the heavens and the earth were nothing and then Allah created it.

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So this is the Tafseer given so so here, it's not would you say it's not proper for us to say that the Quran is referencing definitely the Big Bang. As I said earlier, we cannot say this, we cannot say this and you know, the, you know, the Quran, Allah subhanaw taala didn't review the Quran to be a book of scientific theory, a book that can be applied scientific theory then rejected, it's reviewed as a book to guide us or goddess, the Muslim to be a goddess forward from kind to the occupy the same time it can be interpreted in that way it can be interpreted in that way. If If this scientific theory in and of itself is is a reality truth. Okay. And this is quite a contentious

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point in and of itself. And if there is space to be interpreted, we have this interpretation in the past, then it's possible it could be but we cannot state that this is what we cannot have cannot say that this is definitely what Allah meant in this way. And obviously if we do that, there's a problem of okay now if we say the Big Bang model is is the popular model of today, tomorrow, they change it to another one Exactly. And this is continually change around so when we accept it today, we might reject tomorrow and physically so incredibly, is incredibly fluid in absolutely paradigm shifts and things like that. So happens every day. Yeah, it happens almost on a, let's say, decade basis. A

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level books and physics were completely different to me 20 years ago, so

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let's, let's go to the other the other things. The other thing that was commonly mentioned is so it was in the normal song that they inserted, Chapter 51 of the Quran, you know, First Voice of the heaven is being created with power and we are steadily expanding. Yep. This is the correct translation.

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It could be interpreted as, again, this difference of opinions the word eight What does it mean?

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We're in limbo. sirona. We are indeed, as you said, expanding some of the facilities and have mentioned to be a quotes that there are a new a number of different reputations given

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hotter or colder, we are able, we are able, we are all powerful. And God says that the best meaning of this is that we are not in need of any one and we are powerful. So he drove hurry here has encompassed all of the previous interpretations given into one particular one particular, one particular opinion. So it's not necessarily that we are expanding. Okay. In fact, the strongest opinions that we are all able are all powerful. And is there any contradiction between those could could someone theoretically believe in both of those things able and absolutely, absolutely uncompromising? Is that here is is was summat when I? When I was young, so it doesn't say what's the

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matter?

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Yeah. So the Adolfo the Adam, we definitely don't have dunya because we know that Samantha dunya is sort of mold. Yeah. is where you find any stars right? As summer. So you can translate how you translate that as possible universe or because the thing is, yeah, I mean, I don't want to do that myself. But the point is, I'm saying, We're not saying what's the Macedonian. So it's not saying this worldly, this but the sky is this thing above us above.

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And this is from, again, the principles of tafsir. Because Allah says, What's similar. So there's Elif, and there's a lamp before the word simmer. And it sort of said, we see any there's a moment there's generality, right? So it could possibly encompass all of this, all of these things. Okay. So it could, it could mean all the seven heavens, it could mean all of these for you to restrict it to one particular thing. Again, you need a clear text on this. Right? Which once again, is an interesting verse. It could correlate to what's going on according to the theory. Well, we can't be too sure about that. We should make that to propagate. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, because

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again, there are different different Options Given by the officer on on this and even just from the Arabic language, we can say that this doesn't you cannot restrict it to this particular meaning. And as if we restricted the Quran to something okay. On the other hand, though, we have some people who,

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maybe, let's say, trying to attack Islam, yeah. So let me give you this this one particular personality on the internet. He said that the one of the actually he lists as one of the reasons why he left Islam. And he says that Islam advocates that the Earth was created before the heaven. Yeah. So and obviously, he quotes the verse.

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Hola. Hola. Hola, como de

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la hora. He's the one who created all the everything in there. Then he turned to Devon. And he made him to seven heavens. Yeah. Also sort of facilities. One. Yeah. So the point here is, is this the only interpretation we have? Again, this, this particular area and sort of facilities? Well, a number of places in Cochrane, this isn't the only interpretation given this isn't the only interpretation given by the classical scholars. You have, for example, a Lucy he says on his tablet, or

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he gives us interpretation, then Allah intended to create the heavens, yeah. This is one interpretation given.

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quite interestingly, he points out something quite interesting. He says somebody who was from the fourth generation and he was considered as really the father of all of them for cylinder people, the scholars who explained the Quran, he says that, or Tada, who again, was from the Sellafield, second generation, Tabby follower, he differed with them. And he said he differed with some of the other student, scholars have said, and he said that, in fact, this shows that the Earth was created after the heavens, because what it says is only the hollow hollow metal out of the Earth from Moscow LSM. It doesn't say

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it doesn't say and then he created. And again, this is also another interesting thing that indicated and others mentioned, it is a again in

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to see if your input on that it could mean that thalma head in Arabic film will roughly translate it to me and as more often it doesn't necessarily mean it happened, this action before it happened often, oh, this action often happened before. It could mean that when you speak it's as if you were given a title team, you'd simply reorganizing how you present a structure how you present a sentence, but it could have no effect on the actual, how and when it happened. Yeah, so purely from a linguistic aspect, right? But not literally, I don't want to get people into too much of a kind of tangent here. But there is a there is a first there is another person who will have the body

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dedicated, which we'll come back to in another episode. Definitely. But the earth have thereafter, we have spread out and whatnot. So the point is, this would suggest the opposite would suggest that the Senate was created first and down was great. No, it may, but we'll cover it in a future episode. The reality is that this isn't a contradiction. Yeah, that's what I thought. And Firstly, we believe that the clinical condition comes from one source, which is the last one what's the reality is that even some of them have a pseudo of Oh, and have mentioned that. It could mean that after the creation of the heavens and earth whenever a particular opinion, they will have that the Earth was

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spread. Now we know in what in the sense that it could be that the tectonic plates were spread after graduating, although this is a possible interpretation to give. It could mean that the vegetation or it could mean not necessarily that it supports the Flat Earth Theory, a summary of Scripture. Yeah, we're gonna come to that. We'll come to something in the second episode. Some people have claimed about operandi talks about flat earth or the earth being flat. But let's let's go to another issue here, which is the

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the six days that a lot of parents have

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Hello, Mr. gela. Now what I was reading was for Hani, he says the Allium cogeco, in a seminar last minute could be any time period from the time periods, right? Well, let me play devil's advocate, because when you look at sort of, sort of, for example, such that chapter 32 of the Quran

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verses 10 as a

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mythology, G Fuel mechanic, Alpha Sigma Tau.

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So it says that the the the affair goes from the heavens to the earth in a day, which is worth 1000 1000 years of your, of your work. And obviously, there's the sort of sort of marriage up to 70, I think.

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50,000 years, and we know that this is talking about two different days,

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talking about the Day of Judgment, and he's talking about something else. But some of us who don't have said that this 1000 days, is referencing

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is referencing the Hulk of disability without the creation of the heavens and earth. And if we fall into that, then we're going to say, then, what's the difference between you and the young earth creationist? Absolutely, Christian? So Well, how would you respond to that? Again, it's it's not to do with the Quran and to apply the Quran, according to a modern scientific theory of that it comes down to the linguistic meaning of the word yo. Yeah. Which as you said, you quote from us for honey, that young could mean something, which is a long period of time not restricted to the 24 hours, that we know that there's something quoted by many of the many of the scholars of the language not

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necessarily going into the Tafseer of it, right. So just by understanding this, and again, the Quran came in Arabic to the ATO, so interpreted according to how the Arab how the Arabs would understand the language and the Quran doesn't make it clear how long the day was. Again, if you see yom, then you cannot apply what we know as a day, 24 hour day, or 12 hours on 12 hours. And you can't apply to this is what meant, but there one last monetary limit. So it's true that it could be that these six periods are actually just six periods. But we don't know how we can't say the length of it. Yeah, absolutely. That's fine. Another another thing that's put forward is we're talking about in relation

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kind of relation to the heavens and the earth is the reference and sort of the facilite to Daryl Hahn. Yeah. So to the west refer to a smoke.

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Some say that this links to the Big Bang?

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Yep. What do you think? Well,

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it's similar to what we're discussing, I have MBM, all of these items are connected the three IR three verses that we spoke about, they're all connected to the creation of the of the heavens and the earth, some of them are for zero. And the scholars have said have said, have said that what is meant by Doohan here is

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kind of like smoke again. Some of them offer similar said that you pipe or vapor. Yeah. And some have said that you can't do this. You can't do this, because

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is that based on any us any like evidence from if not from another ad from a salsa? lonesome? No, it's not. Okay. So this is the interpretation given by the MFI student themselves, which could be rejected or could be accepted. Okay. And if something hasn't been made clear, then again, you cannot put yourself into that. And to say that I lost my talent meant this unequivocally. And

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the same thing would apply. The theories as accepted today may be rejected tomorrow. Right. Okay. So here, I'm

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just commenting. So here, what it seems like it's happening is people are being selective, right? Absolutely. It could be the case that you have an A, which has more than one interpretation. But, and has more than one to see it. Obviously, there's minimum pressure on, of course, the ones who want to promote Islam and promote Islam as being absolutely in line with scientific evidence, which it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be, as we've explained, but I will say that these are the things that make it in line with the site and the no court has ever said, the ones who want to say that Islam is in contradiction with scientific it'll be selective and

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choose. So this guy we saw here talking about the earth being created before they haven't he's he's falling into that suddenly, he completely ignored what MIT the major deficit of such as,

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come on. And

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it's quite shocking, to be honest with you. So the point we're trying to make, then what could we say here? If one of you is honest as possible? I think the argument we can make from $1 perspective because once again, we have to not only think about how we can understand this mess out of the situation ourselves, but how we can package it for the for people of now. This is the way I put it. And Tom, what do you think of this? I say, if and this is a conditional statement, I put right. If you take science as a good yardstick for truth, then the Koran is the most closely correlated ancient religion, to the scientific discourse. And here, I'm being very selective with my

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terminology, because I'm not saying it has to be completely competitive, saying that it's most correlated, if you compare it, for example, with the biblical narrative of Genesis, and there's no way you can interpret that in a way which can even correspond to science in any way, shape, or form. So from this perspective, and you can say, some have advocated this now this is like a multi layered kind of dimensional approach where people today could Yanni from the lumber perspective, from their own pondering perspective, they could interpret the Quran in a scientific way. They're in their rights to do that. So

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long as they don't say, unequivocally This is absolutely yeah, as long as it's within the realms of said within the realms of the principles of diffserv, which again, it's not something that everyone can can go ahead and interpret it from a tinderbox perspective, then yes, it's possible to, to extract points of benefit from it, right. But we have to be very careful about falling into speaking about lowest mortality without knowledge. And seeing that this is what a lot smarter than a minute, this was just something very, very, very dangerous. What's really powerful about this is that someone was from a scientific that has a scientific background, for example, doesn't have to

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reevaluate their scientific beliefs before becoming a Muslim, whereas that's, for example, literalistic, biblical Bible.

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Thumper, wherever you want to call them. People that really believe in the Bible, one advocate of teaching would have to in order to be kind of a Christian, to be a Christian would have to reject it or say, well, metaphor. Yeah, absolutely. So that way, you could say this as a distinction. That's it's a massive distinction, again, from the beauty of the Quran. This is again, from the beautiful Khurana from the beauty of Islam. In and of itself, it is important important, again, again, that we don't necessarily speak about or fall into the trap of of changing our beliefs, due to what the scientific theory says of today. Okay, so here we've talked about kind of the beginning of the

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heavens and the earth.

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We talked about the, we've talked about the Big Bang and the expanding universe. We've talked about these things. There's one other thing here, which I find quite interesting, and to be honest with you, I find it really like one of the furthest thing away from what can be interpreted. Here. The references are way too loud to my brain. Oh, man. Yeah, as I can, I can have something to say about this. So let's see what he has to say.

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Lately, the scientists have discovered

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that there are bridges of matter in the interstellar space. It's not vacuum, and it is called as plasma.

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And this is this matter is in the form of precious metal, which has equal number of positive ions as well as electrons.

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And the Quran mentions 49 years ago, instead of chapter 25, verse 259, it is Allah subhana wa Taala, who has created the heavens and the earth, as well as things in between it.

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So Quran says, There is matter in between the heavens and the earth, which today science, they say that this plasma can be considered as the fourth type of matter. So now we've seen the clip, he says similar to this, my bernama was between haves and have refers to plasma. Is this feasible? Again, using the principles that we've laid out? Is something agreed upon by all of them for sit on? Well, this was the set of course you can say this. Because again, this is something that where the I may not necessarily allow that to be said, and there is nothing that has been said before, you know, no one from the self has sadness. Okay. There is no No, no, no, there's no, there's no city support.

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There's no precedent to to agree to this. So we don't really think mystic meaning couldn't mean, linguistically. It's very difficult. Yeah, it's very difficult. It's possible this kind of thing could be just kind of thrown into the middle.

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Again, it has to be subjected to due diligence and Bethany replies on this. Okay. But generally from the outset, no. Okay. I agree with that. I second that. So hey, that's the end of the first episode, guys, I hope you have actually took benefit from this from this session, what we're trying to do is we're trying to be as academically honest as possible, we want to say we want to say about las pantallas words, that which is we can say, based on the language based on what people have said before about it.

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And also, based on the evidence that we have in terms of the of the physical world around us, but within limitations, and I've hope you've taken benefit from this in the next episode. We're going to be talking about geo centricity versus healer centricity, that the rotations of the heavens and the earth, the rotations of celestial bodies in the sky, and things like that, and this has been an yonny an area of controversy. Absolutely. For some people. Till then we'll see you soon.