Islam, Andrew Tate, Sex and Gender
Channel: Mohammed Hijab
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Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa. I can't tell how are you guys doing? We're here with a very, very special guests actually two very, very special guests. We've got none other than this tutorial shooter himself.
How you doing? Muslim? I mean, I have to say, I've now met him in person. And we'll be speaking for some time on what's happened is enthusiasm. hamdulillah when it comes to Islam, and knowing and knowledge and practice, seeing you in the masjid, and stuff like that, it's fantastic. And someone else has a revert. And an important figure in Islam and Dalsin. Is Hamza sorts. himself. How're you doing?
Well, I'm happy to, it's a pleasure and honor to be with both of you. And there's a lot to talk about to be honest with you. Now, it's a hot topic, obviously, you're very close with Andrew tea, with both being barraged by the media and the journalists and the press and stuff like that about him.
So called manosphere, you know, jargons, and stuff are being thrown around in relation to all three of us, actually, we've all been kind of labeled as this kind of thing. So there's a lot to talk about. But I think what I want to start with with you is speak about a little bit about your conversion.
Because it was really it was going around on WhatsApp, how you converted. But you know, I really touched all of us, actually, because we went some of our groups and we said this the way he articulated it was really powerful. So can you just for those who haven't heard it before, what brought you to slack? Fantastic. I just want to start off first of all, say it's absolute honor to have both of you guys. Genuinely, I do not think I'm in any way worthy. I think there's a lot of people are genuinely who have put a lot more time into faith and deserve to be sit next to you guys. I'm genuinely honored. And I genuinely believe I'm not worthy. So thank you, I spent a lot of hours
watching both you guys do your thing. I love the precision and the way you use your words and the way you speak to your faith with such passion and such power. It's it was very inspirational for me to be drawn to this and I'm so that the Tao is working even with the person you sit next to so
it's amazing. So thanks. So my path Islam 15 years in the Middle East, even in 2004, you know, I'd be sitting in a coffee shop in in Tehran, or having having dinner on a rooftop in Damascus. And I'd have people trying to get me to consider Islam. So it's not it's not a new thing. I believe the you become a Muslim before you take shahada concept applied very strongly, and more even to this day, and I'd love to speak to it. The more I read about Islam, the more I say, Hang on, I figured that out after 30 years on this planet. And here, it isn't a book that was written hundreds and hundreds of years ago, the amount of moments I've had the Japanese have a term called Satori. It's what we'd
like to break through the cloud that aha moment, the amount of I have them daily with Islam, because I find belief systems I mean, come from that, because it has any connection, no.
Pretty much every day, I have moments where whether it's talking to others, like you or reading, I find belief systems that I've learned independently over the years or that I've I've realized to be true, already exist in Islam and spoken about and conceptualize even clearer, that to me every day, I'm reminded the power in the books and in the discussions. And I think myself, like Tate, very driven towards truth, very driven towards understanding what is this human experience about? How do I best live? Personally, I really believe that humans need dogma, we need guidance, you're going to get that from faith, or you're gonna get it from culture, stuff. I know what a horrible place to get
guidance from, or maybe you get it from governments under like a communist system. But I think if we as humans are all looking for some sort of guidance as to how do I answer the big questions in my life? How do I find that community? How do I know I'm living on the straight path. So at Monster Kim, you cannot get a stronger interpretation of the human experience, nor a clearer set of guidelines of dogma as to how to live then Islam. And, for me, what I love is, I thought religion was read the Bible occasionally go to church once a week, maybe, then I come into Islam as this entire system for living for interacting with people for entering somebody's house, the amount of
detail and guidance, again, based on the principle that humans need that to be fulfilled. Islam cannot be questioned as the most powerful and clear guidance for life. So yeah, obviously, I'm quite excited to not just the rebel. The more I read about Islam, the more I go to the masjid hamdulillah right next to my house, the more hungry I am, to have more to make more time to read more and to speak more. It's, yeah, let's say you go to school, you have to learn something, you have to force yourself to learn it. So my journey in Islam is completely the opposite. I am working less and I'm saying no to money occasionally, because I do like to be successful, which I love to talk about not
a bad thing. But I'm pushing contracts away so that I have more time to read about Islam because I find it so fulfilling and there's so much power, there's genuine power there that I'm only beginning to understand, but I can see that more and more Inshallah, throughout my life. Faith will become everyday, ideally more a bigger percentage of my time and focus. That's my current intent.
have a similar experience. Thank you for that man. Well, that was beautiful the way you articulated that, by the way, and what I find really amazing is even now your your Arabic English is really good. I'm not sure if you guys know, but he's learning Arabic. And as you heard that sauce was talking.
He's actually got good.
What's your experience similar? Yes. I think it took longer, because I became with someone who was 22 years old. So I didn't have much life experiences and your brain stopped developing at 25. For those who think you're Pakistani. Yeah, I'm great. Yeah. So I became Muslim. 20 years ago. 2002. I was 22 years old. October the fifth. That happened in
the fifth. Yeah, I told you, I text you the other day. I said, it's your birthday. I became Muslim on your birthday. Oh, really.
So So basically, I agree with you, I think Islam can be described as the kind of lock if you like, or a key, and where the lock isn't the key goes into the lock and opens the door to well being, that's the best way to put it. Now, throughout my experiences, I'm 40 years old now. So throughout my experiences, when I read a, a hadith, a narration of the Prophet Muhammad upon the piece, it makes much more sense to me now than it did when I was only 22 years old, so I didn't have those life experiences. So now I'm thinking, Oh, my God, look at the wisdom. So even now, I'm a speaker, I read a book, whatever the case may be, even now I'm getting these aha moments thinking, Uh, well,
this is exactly why this is deep. This is profound. Because even with Quranic verses, they're like, the like diamonds, right? And if you put some light through your refract in different ways, and there's like a second infinite ocean if you like. So every verse For example, you can unpack so many layers and layers of meaning. And that's why you know what's going on once said, you don't really read the Quran, the Quran with Zeus, you would find yourself in the Quran. And every time you're going through this kind of existential life journey, you will find yourself in there. So if you add all those things together, in my view, the Quran is what Islam is a key that basically just
fits into the locker basically was like, and we've been trying so many keys in our lives, that wasn't Tibetan Buddhism, I will look into this than the other. And you know, the keys not fitting, but Islam you put the psalm into your lock, if you'd like your existential lock, your spiritual lock, it just opens you out and you're free to experience life experience of the world, and you have good well being in this life initialing offer as well. It's very interesting, you say that I did, like yogic retreats, I went to Dharamsala where the Tibetan government in exile, I was a truth seeker as well. I found some element of guidance and of well being, but we have to agree Islam is so
far superior to and I've looked into all of the major religions, the the the sense of not just peace and well being but knowing that you are living the way if I can say it, humans are meant to live. Well. Islam gives you that so clearly, your expenses, Islam, if you think about it, it gives you solutions at every level. So you have the social political, for example, we have a great economic system. It deals with a number one economic problem, which is not the accumulation of wealth is the distribution of wealth, right? That's the number one key issue, right? Then you have things like for example, spiritual needs, like we have a need, we have an affinity to to worship something as mine
Ling's, the famous thinker said, man cannot not worship you worshiping anything, even the neoliberal order, what they're worshipping is an abstract idea of freedom or their, their desires, desires, the Shaha, the blame, or the desire so they're chase for this absolute freedom is really the fitrah the innate disposition, chasing the divine because only Allah is absolutely free. Right? So all of these things, so if it was a spiritual needs, in souls, political issues, social issues, issues between male and female agenda, interaction, marriage, morality, I mean, Islam provides solutions at every single level. And even I think nowadays, as I spoke with our three Muslim Brothers, Shannon, those
guys amazing love for them. The idea of masculinity nowadays, in the West, especially it is genuinely being questioned as to whether it's even a healthy thing. And I think we see more and more. A lot of men having a bit of a crisis of Oh, hang on. I want to be big and strong, but I'm being told that that's childish, and I shouldn't do it. I want to learn to fight but I've been told that that's aggressive and I shouldn't do it. Islam, for me is the most healthy and balanced way with which to express masculinity. The positive masculinity. Yes. Grow a beard. Yes. Be strong. Yes. If you want have a dog has to be a guard dog, not a leap dog. Yeah, there is the way Islam holds
you. Almost enforces masculinity, but also, it's your duty to look after your family. Yes, the Prophet alayhi wa salatu salam was very empathetic had high social intelligence. So it's, to me it's a very rounded masculinity and a very healthy, positive masculinity for yourself as a man for your family for society that we see within Islam and I think today, especially in the West, masculinity is confused or non existent or just polluted by a lot of liberal ideas. You know, before we get to this, and I want to really open the can of worms if you like with masculinity and gender intersexual dynamics and all that kind of thing. I want to speak just a little bit
about the concept of God and Islam, because for me obviously I've always kind of believed in God being you know, born into a Muslim family and so on. What was your experiences like before both of you? And Did Did you believe in God? Or, and or if now that you do believe in God, how has that changed your life because I've seen you pray in the masjid, for example, and it was really a beautiful build. Because you're trying to pray you're doing a mashallah very well, in the masjid many born Muslims don't do this kind of thing. Now, you know, even now, what would you say? How would you speak to that in terms of your concept of God to hate monotheism? Now that you've got a
God to worship? How has that changed your life?
I think it's simplifying things. But as a truth seeker who's looking for guidance from many different places, it can get a bit confusing, yes. Whereas when the beauty of Tawheed or this is it, this is the truth. So it's definitely it's a more efficient pursuit of truth, once you've converted to Islam. In terms of my interpretation of God, I think there's two ways to look at it for me, first of all, there's the pragmatic now, if I'm a human who thinks all that matters is me and the universe revolves around me, and there is no higher accountability, your life is going to be worse. And your mindset and your daily experience is gonna be worse than if you think, hang on, I need to be
grateful for what I've got gratitude. There are so many studies now tying in gratitude and happiness. So therefore, believing God will make you more great grief will make you more happy. If you're walking around thinking I can do whatever I want, there's no accountability, there's no AKA, your life is gonna be a mess. So I think I've always known that on a practical level, for the health, mental, physical, of my family, for my pure, the quality of my daily life, believing in a higher force is useful on on a pragmatic level. But then when we talk about the emotional, the inner state, I've always known that meditation is important, and I've meditated on my life. However, I
don't really do that anymore. Because I have that. The Masjid. We want to talk about God or Allah, it was, when I moved to this house, it's like, oh, that's cool Masjid because I like I've always liked the call to prayer at the sound of it. Whereas now I can walk across the road. While it is genuinely it's a blessing that, you know, on this point, I mean, this is kind of when I had this conversation with Jordan Peterson, I had a conversation in the mosque, actually, you were there. We both had a conversation with him. And there was one thing that kind of went undetected and wasn't emphasized after a conversation with him because I mentioned something in the Quran, which is, you
know, a woman out of the victory for in the formation bunker, that whoever, averts himself away from my remembrance, they will have a depressed life. That's what Allah says in the Quran. So I brought that to Jordan Peterson's attention, because obviously, him being a clinical psychologist, and probably one of the area's best ones. I mean, maybe we could just ask the question, why is it that he's sort of say depressed, so I needed to take medication.
So, so while I was trying to put his attention by being settled, and also respectful of his own mental condition, is that the Quranic prescription for this is actually to worship one God.
And he agreed with it, he said, and he actually gave a reasoning for it. And if one listens to what he said, he said, that is because if you direct your attention to one thing, it's very similar to what you just said, If you direct your attention to one thing, rather than your attention being directed something which is multiplicity, US, and he started doing this, as
he says, Then because when you when you direct your attention to something more duplicitous, it causes anxiety, because you don't know how to direct your attention. This is grounding. This is exactly this is a rock. Well, what you said about meditation, I want to add to that, because I was actually looking into that was very, very interesting, because asked many peer reviewed journals, and molecular molecular biology and different kinds of a thing about meditation. And it's pretty much established now that meditation
is actually good for your health and stress levels are the kind of things but if you could sit up, like YouTube, or Buddhism and the Vedic tradition, and it's kind of things like transcendental meditation, you consider the fact that what what really are the traits of Transcendental Meditation, the traits of meditation in general, one of the key things is being present in the moment. They will always say that any self help book that you read on the issue, or even generally, if you go to these kinds of, they'll say being present the Power of Now, you know, very famous, for example, this is one of the prerequisites to prayer. Yes. So the Hodor, which is referred to as like being present,
knowing that Allah is Hearing you, knowing that Allah is Seeing you knowing that Allah is with you, not physically in the essence that Allah is with you. Knowing that as you're praying, now you're communicating with God that every nothing else matters at that moment, except for your communication with God, that you are now submitting yourself in the way that the Creator of the heavens and the earth wants you to submit yourself to Him. you're submitting yourself to God in the present moment. You You're not thinking in a future centered way. Because now in the hustle and bustle of the world around us, we always think about the future and on my brother, he sort of given my little book
exactly, so I'll walk over it I don't want to interrupt you. Now. Of course, I'll walk over to the masjid as soon as call to prayer before the prayer or read my book. I want to get really specific with praying and make sure I'm doing everything right and
Arabic is and where it will be soon Inshallah, and then afterwards, it's really good, thank you, thank you afterwards I'll sit down, I'll read my book as well, then I'll come back to my house with his work and his phone calls. And that is my place of, as you said, separate from Donya from fitrah. That's where I just focus on what matters. And what I also add, to your point, I'd understood through lived human experience, that the intent with which you approach a task is key. And then in Islam, we have it got the concept of near
x. And so even when we're doing goosal, or wudu, having that near the intent, I'm now washing off, whether it's distresses or the dirt or the unclean energies, all of which comes with, you know, lived human experience. And I'm purifying myself in a way before I go and communicate with God. Just that intent alone is going to then make the process of prayer more powerful. Yes, these sorts of concepts don't exist in meditation, just sit, think feel relaxed, right? If you are going with a very clear intent to your point, this is a special moment, everything's being put aside. I'm now preparing myself to go and communicate with with Allah subhanaw taala. That is more powerful than
any meditation on the planet. Absolutely.
Interesting, or Honestly, even with meditation, because I do a lot of what do you call it mindfulness? that's become very popular in the West, right? I do myself, sometimes I just want to see what's what about it's nothing to do, it's only to focus on something. Because, I mean, in Buddhism, I think they call it the monkey mind, that your mind is going all over the place, because you can't, it's very difficult for five minutes if you tell someone don't think of anything. So they'll say focus on your breathing and just focus on that, for example, even then it becomes difficult, even then becomes tedious, sometimes monotonous, I think, because the prayer actually
offers you a script. When you're doing vicar for example, which in remembrance of God and you're saying, Subhan Allah or Glory be to God, the humble Allah, praise and thanks be to God, Allah Akbar, Allah is the Greatest is just about as much thought as you need to kick stick, stay focused. And to not let your mind go into that monkey mind state, and also allow you to go to a state of flow, to keep your mind rested and lively at the same time. Well, that is one of the best things you can have when you're having a relationship. Yes, when you're doing, whether you're meditating, whether you're doing one of these New Age, spiritual techniques, which are really old, but they've basically
projected them into the modern root domain, package them. I see this, this might be controversial statement, I see this as a form of self worship. Because what you're doing, because what your spirituality is a connection with the one that created you, or with at least something outside of the universe, we could agree on that. But this kind of secular form of spirituality is right it's more it's you're chasing utility. So in particular, God, I want to feel good, I want to feel better. And that's why so many hippies have those spiritual egos. Yes, I think
so it's the point here is when you're when you're having a relationship with Allah, he is a candidate for example, he he's the grandiose he's a Rahman entire semester for his attitude he the most loving he is alright man in New Testaments. What is a Rahim? He's the one that he's his, his, his has a special mercy that he's giving. He's a lackey, in the wise he has the picture, we just got the pixel, right? You're relating to ALLAH SubhanA, Allah to Allah. And in that process, you're doing it in a way that is submissive, full of love, and is directed and intentional. This is what you describe as crucial in a way which in the Quran in the in the chapter, this is the believers
chapter 23. The first line says successful indeed other believers who pray with sure was for sure with the sense of it's hard to translate that word in English just like heartbroken nurse, sense of humility to burn loving Allah because worshiping Islam is not just doing an act. There's an internal external aspect. It means to love God, to know God, to obey God to be humbled before him to submit to Him and to direct all your acts of worship to the divine. So it's a whole beautiful package, but I just want to put this on the new Muslim journey. Before I became Muslim. I learned how to pray it was such a transformative experience I would be in subjects I remember my friend Dr. Ahmed who used
to train with him in religion fitness the rest of them I wasn't Muslim them I remember him telling our Muslim friends you are closest to your Lord in frustration or fear that everyone will love you I really think about the symbolism here because your face is like the symbol of the ego and you putting it where it belongs because you are nothing compared on this panel with that there is even no comparison. Lasik cometh leashing which doesn't mean there isn't like God if you look at the Arabic LASIK chemical he shaved there is nothing as is example, which is like a linguistic ploy to emphasize even more transcendence, right? So, Salah prayer was everything. Everything for me because
it helped internalize all the kind of abstract intellectual stuff like one God and Quran is a miracle and so on and so forth. But have a quick challenge. The challenge is that I really believe if every single human being comes to the Quran with the Open Heart, they would be compelled to accept this conception of the Divine. It is intuitive
Spiritual and rational, it satisfies the mind. And it brings tranquility to the heart the concept of Divine oneness in in the Quran if you compare it to the Christian tradition or other traditions, it's just on another level I would even go as further to say go to the 112 chapter of the Quran, which is really a summary of Divine oneness, read it and analyze it and I'm telling you that will be sufficient because it's the criterion for you know, if you have to sit in, in a dark room and think about like who is God and you have a sense of sincerity you would align yourself to the words in the Quran, Allah is uniquely one could do a local ad which means uniquely one, his independent, if so,
self subsisting, everything depends on him. He gets not known as he begotten and there is nothing like him. And if you even if you read the first line, who Allahu Ahad Allah is Allah mean, going to the Arabic linguist is Allah Allah, the date is the one who's worthy of worship, and love and connection. And Allah is such a beautiful name and compasses all the names in the Quran, which therefore you go to the Quran and you start seeing words like names like a guru, the most loving man, the most merciful, and one of the source of all goodness, Al Hakim, the most wise ally, the most annoying, and so on and so forth. I truly believe as a challenge to anyone watching this, if
you're sincere, go to 100 chapter and look at the one of the biggest names and attributes, it will be inevitable if you're sincere, you're gonna like this is it for me.
And just to tie that up, as well, through prayer, there's that element of humility, you are putting your face on the ground and send it out, there's something higher than you. The problem with this modern day liberal indoor spirituality is it's, you're not
conceptualizing the fact that you are below all this a lot of the hippies because I come from a hippie family, they got massive egos, I think especially because I meditate because that lacks that, that what you just talked about that an overarching framework with which to carry out the meditation, if you will, Salah has not just that concept of you shouldn't be humbled because there's something bigger than you over meditation. I also view it as very powerful programming in that you say the same things numerous times. They're going to imprint deeper in the brain right? If you say my favorite language every time I pray I love it. And this Titan I've discussed this exact line I
also bIllahi min ash shaytaan regime, I love that you are mining yourself. Evil exists in this world. And guess what? You need to seek guidance and help from something bigger than us in order to resist evil. In the West, they don't really think about that. They don't walk they don't remind themselves five times a day or technically twice because when you leave the mosque, you know, you remind yourself again, that there are this many influences shaytan or jin or whatever you want to call it, who are trying to push me towards, you know, indulging Hedden ism, or rip off you know, someone in a business deal or be unkind to your neighbor, if you don't remind yourself regularly
about the fact that shaytan exists, and especially with the new liberal order, this religion of workers and you will be pushed towards that which feels good at once it's going to find why not do drugs, why not have casual sex with endless women. And but the power of again, this, the idea that's the prayer is somehow positive mantras are positive statements that drill down into your mind your money, so five times a day, no evil exists, and I'm, I'm aligning with the highest force in the universe, to resist that evil, that's gonna make you a better person.
And nowadays, in the West Point, the endless pornography for young men on these drugs accessible, Tinder makes casual sex accessible. What framework do young men in particular have with which to resist all of the temptations and the evil of the world? If not Islam, what is telling them what what is keeping them on the straight path, other than Islam, I don't see anything. And actually, there was a Warren guy who joined Islam recently, Lord bears his name, or he is on YouTube, at 21 years of age, he said, I cannot resist, I cannot resist everything that's out there, whether it's women, or parties, or hedonism, or all these things, I'm choosing Islam because I know it'll make my
life. It made me more effective as a human or make my life a lot healthier, I'll be a lot more productive to society. So at 21 He got very, very passionately took shahada and I became Muslim. Because he knows that Satan is real and he seeks guidance with from Allah to resist Satan. I just it's showed me a more powerful reminder everyday I love it. It's you don't want to think that you can always kind of semi violent itself and then your discussion with the three Muslims became viable. I mean, it was really good discussion. But one kind of segment of that discussion was really good was was when you're speaking about haemophilia.
I mean, I want to ask you about from what you've read, what compelled you what, you know, persuaded you that this was the model. So that was that was reading about the Prophet a lot was salat wa salam was what made me understand that Islam was the way and the superior choice. And I think what it was
A lot of people are glorified and looked up to nowadays influences. Celebrities, footballers. A person who cares. You kick a football Well, yeah, congressional. But when you look at the profit, and it was a lump sum on what area of life did he not excelent he didn't just leave, you didn't just leave one family, he led many. He was, you know, in battle a proven leader. And having experienced combat, that's, it's no joke, you know, you want to talk about stoicism and being calm under pressure combat will show that he was successful in business, he
the obstacles he went through in his life, but he's still stayed true to what he was doing the sacrifices he made. Show me a better person through history, who greater deserves that celebrity status, or that influencer status show me.
And also, I think, part of the reason why I support
Tate is that people who follow Titan and watch his long form content are positively impacted by his messages. Now, I think that separates him from other influences, and what positive benefit you get from following many of these people who are famous for the sake of being famous many, many of the YouTubers, this isn't a benefit to the fans who consume their contest. Now, for me, that's, that's, again, I wish, I know it's a bit impractical. But I wish the youth of today could somehow compare their role models or the impulses that they consume the words of with the prophet, and that was set up. Because you cannot, cannot debate you cannot compare. If you want to look up to a certain person
throughout history. I'm sorry, it's not a footballer. It's not. It's the Prophet. And it was a that was someone who had achieved so much every year. So to this day, there are 2 billion people who look to Him as the most important human on the planet. Why? Why are we? Why are we looking at influences? Why are we looking at celebrities, when we have that that clear, well documented example of what can be achieved in life, and also the other piece without going on too much?
In a world where masculinity is confused, yes, I think the Prophet Li was salam Salam embodied a very rounded masculinity in that he, he let's be honest, he was a killer. He killed people in battle. But at the same time, he showed empathy, and he was level headed enough in battle, to decide not to kill as well, that's as a form of soldier. Professionalism isn't necessarily just putting rounds down. It's having that judgment call to show restraint. So he proved, but also we talked about the way he raised his families, he was very soon. You know, at one point, he went away from his wife for 29 days, I believe it was and he said, No, you don't deserve my attention. That's
right. But at the same time, he was very empathetic and very caring. Show me a better example of a well rounded man, someone who is capable of taking life but at the same time is empathetic enough and caring hours to nurture and lead multiple families.
I love the way put that perfect. Reminds me of something I've been talking about when people say, oh, you know, Hinduism is peaceful. Buddhism is peaceful and you have these monks in like, you know, jungles or forests, talking about compassion and peace and thinking good respect. You don't have the power not to be compassionate. How can you be merciful you don't even have the abilities of power, but you look at the life the process not only to just reflect on this, right? He was tortured, abused, boycotted, right. He had to take his dog stomach because he was so hungry, his companions were killed. And in the battle, the other one was injured, he almost died. You know, one of the
companions said, you know, why don't you you know, make dua custom. You know what he said even in that moment, when he had every right he said, I was not sending it to curse or condemn, I will sit here as a mercy all forgiven for they don't know. And that's in the midst of battle when he was he's dead Hamza Raja Lavon, was mutilated his his uncle. So that's one aspect, look at the mercy and compassion. Also look at when he took over Mecca. Now he had the power.
Apart from certain exceptions, which were part of, you know, due process and law, there was a general amnesty, what did he call that April, because this is a day of
mercy, not a day of revenge when he had the ability. So you can't say you're compassionate, and you're nice, we haven't been tested in battle, or in authority. It also there's proof there, again, with respect to the Tibetan monks, they got absolutely eaten alive by China. So it's all good to speak compassion, if you're not ready to defend your fight, and you can just gonna get like, it's a horrible thing, of course, makes a false sense of compassion, because compassion doesn't mean being passive. Compassion means being I'm gonna stand up and be brave. And I'm going to be courageous to defend my people, which for the Prophet SAW included Muslims and non Muslims, by the way, he had no
political authority when defending the Jews who are defending the Christians who defend the Muslims of his of his of his authority. And this is why it's very important you look at the person in the right context, you cannot be there's no other way. But to conclude that this man was the best man Salallahu now and I want this power to add something
to power for sure. Will you read about mercy? Yes. And you're absolutely right, because
Like, for example, if someone was thrown in prison if he's going to prison right now. And then I say to the Christian God, I say, I'm being merciful to you. It doesn't even make sense. It was totally logically because you can't be merciful to someone who's got the upper hand on it absolutely can only be merciful to someone. You've got the upper hand on this. And there's actually a Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad wa salam where a person tried to kill him with a sword from Claudius, very famous Hadith. And then the person dropped the sword, the prophet carried it, and he didn't exactly revenge on him. Now, that's mercy, where he could have exacted revenge on him. I mean, well, he didn't kill
him. And then that person became Muslim, because he saw what mercy look like in the flesh. And that's why I listen to a lot of nothing. Except for muscular pain. Why fans are amazing. Is that what you said that was really beautiful, because it's that Goldilocks zone of virtuous, impeccable character? I mean, well, it says an awful lot, for example, when they're looking at our theme, that you have the impeccable virtue, yes. I mean, what does this even mean? It's very interesting. You're Greek. And you've got the Nicomachean Ethics, the book that Aristotle wrote, and he was talking about virgin, I think there's a lot of truth in that book, where he basically says that, you know,
you've got, you've got two things to trim, then you have the Goldilocks zone, you've got rationalism, you've got cowardice, and then you've got bravery in the middle, for example. And some people, it's so easy for people to exhibit one of those characteristics and not the other or not to get that middle ground, being merciful and brave at the same time, and that there's so much evidence, I mean, imagine it for example, McCambridge, Josie, I mentioned in his Kitab, Zevon, that you mentioned that the Prophet Muhammad Salah money into 19 military expeditions. And imagine he did that in the span of 10 years. That's almost two on average per year when he's putting his own life
on the line. Yes. This and also his followers, and we were just speaking before the podcast about Ali pay at the time, and most amazing story because he's a paragon of bravery himself, I even never thought of, of course, being as companion and part of the family. And the problem was, and we were talking about amazing story with this individual called the amateur Nabi
Muhammad, Abdul did, this individual who was like, you know, the pagan side team is one of the most powerful men and he came to fight. And before what would happen is at least have very honorable kind of ways of fighting each other sort of one on one. So I said, before we go, all the all the atmosphere each other, we're gonna have one on ones come about as our almost our power to fight each other. And this guy who was known to be one of the most powerful fighters, this individual, and he was in Golding and emasculating, you're trying to escalate, the most popular, he's gonna fight me. And I believe Navy pilot, he stood up and he said, You know, I'm going to let me do and let me let
me fight every fight on your behalf. And then he got up and then deposit homes at AngelList in the hammock, you know, sit down, because this is this guy is no joke. And then then went back and forth, and he didn't want to even see it. Sort of, so they fought each other, and valuably without to put his life on the line. This is an example of bravery. Because if you lose the fight, it's not like an MMA fight or kickboxing boxing. It's not going to be okay, you can live to fight another day, we have a rematch clause, you die if you lose your dive. This is the highest level of bravery, when you're putting yourself forward to a fight on one on one with a sword. And the guy has got his a
favorite. And you are the underdog you're putting so you want to fight this guy. So these are the kinds of examples of the Battle of names. For example, the arrows were coming in the Sahaba had to move holding back, Abu Sufyan was wandering back and was marching forward. I am the messenger of Allah Elia beautiful, he was tested to the degree where to claim that he is even Elia is logically equivalent of claiming your mother didn't give birth to Sao Paulo, because you have far more testimonial evidence and contextual, psychological, social political evidence to show that the person was not alive. Yes, then evidence that you
guys are so well read. For PhD guys, I'm a former soldier.
I'm gonna watch the video back in a half speed so I can understand what you're saying.
I am honored to have you guys in my house. I really
don't think about the present. Yes, the bravery. But think about the most the power. What I mean by power is the psychological power. Like there was a famous story because I call this how you relate with what you create. He would optimize a person in every situation. Do you know how leadership is phenomenal leadership, right? I try and use that we try and instill that in our in our organization by Todd is that your linguistic utterances and your behaviors they should be such that you intend wellbeing for them more than yourself, you love them more than yourself from that degree. And you want, you're committed to the well being and the guidance and the way you express yourself in that
particular context is to optimize that person. For example, fidelity was second ambulating the cover you became normally Muslim who killed the person someone was holding a dagger or something. And the person said, You know what you say to yourself, and he kind of like you know, reacted and what did the person do?
his hand on his heart. He said ask Allah for forgiveness. And for fidelity when I met after that says, after that moment, no one was more beloved to me than the Prophet sallallahu Heidecker seven. So how he related to his body language and his linguistic utterances in that particular context for that person's well being developed the optimized version. And to add to this point of just one more,
talk too much.
Individual talk too much with my wife tells me what I was gonna say that one one really interesting example of this optimization and stuff like that, and mercy as well is that there was a person called July,
July, he was an individual who had like, dwarfism, okay at the time of his mouth, and he was seem to have like, deformed features, structural features and stuff and of the phase of the body. And he found it very difficult to get noticed. So the process, long story short, he went to a family who said, I want to get married. And they thought in the beginning, that he was talking about him getting the provinces and getting themselves married, what he was intending to Lady, and he got him essentially got married to this woman of this noble family. And then he went out and fought, Julie B went out and fought in the next second condition, and he was killed. And he asked the process, and
I'm asked, Where is who died in this expedition. And they listed certain names. They didn't mention July.
But the prophet himself, he was in a very, he was in the southern state. And he said, this is this man is from me, and I'm from him. In other words, he looked at everybody at every subsection of society. And he made sure that everybody was given their right disabled people, black people, women, children, it's not just a matter of Islam is a very inclusive region, because it's for everybody. It really is. It really isn't inclusively.
The fact that it was a solemn being who he was,
was able to kind of relate and connect. And, as you mentioned, optimize a relationship with every single person. And that society I think, is really powerful indication of the kind of characters Muhammad Ali, the famous boxer, it's so interesting, he says that, I don't look at how people deal with me, I look at how they deal with the Waiter. Yes, because it's not about your true character is how you deal with people at all levels of society. But we spoken about so I want to go back to this as I'm sitting in the sort of podcast I watch. I spent so many hours watching both you guys sitting here again, it's I love it.
I was gonna ask you now, obviously, now, we've been under attack, maybe all three of us, I actually definitely all three of us.
Why people, because not just a connection to agitate. And that's something of course, as Muslim people will always be proud to be connected with every single Muslim man, woman or child. We have nothing to apologize.
The media has been coming at us, the liberal and woke left wing media, with all kinds of things. Tell us some of the things that you've experienced with the media, because I know that the company is speaking to you. And what is it their agenda as well, this what do you expect to achieve? Well, the first thing I've realized is nowadays, there is no such thing as journalistic ethics anymore, and I'm an investigator I was trained back in the day, I've been investigated in the private space for 15 years, I'm capable. I've taught many other investigators how to do the job. Yeah, one of the first things you learn as an investigator is the credibility of sources must assess that and also
across checking sources. I've heard this from one person, I've also heard that from another person, okay, it's more, it's more credible, it's more likely to be true. The amount of myths true myth, myths, truths that have been published on tape from big media houses, that very easily with a little bit of what's known as Osen, open source intelligence, basically, using Google and other other search engines you can find out to not be true.
Is, is it's inconceivable that journalists are that poor their jobs? So the answer then is there's an agenda, basic there with their editorial meetings, and they decide on the party agenda and the party agenda is we need to burn Andrew tape. So find whatever you can to burn, agitate don't look for truth. I mean, any journalist who wants to say tape got famous for saying misogynistic things, have a look at the comments under his videos. There are 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s, if not millions of positive comments about how Titan has inspired so many people, men and women to say, You know what, I'm going to, I'm going to put aside all of this liberal, hedonistic stuff, and I'm going to
embrace traditional gender roles. So a woman women all the time, as I've seen in many social settings, say, thank you for speaking up for women like me, who wants to be feminine, who want to be a caregiver who want to prioritize family. Thank you, Andrew. Women say this to Him. The media won't acknowledge that though, because they hold their their party lines, we need to burn and repeat. So the idea that somehow all the journalists of the world are missing in this instance, the fact that there's positivity behind Andrew and they're just saying, oh, yeah, he rose to prominence due to saying controversial things. What a disgusting fallacy and what proof that nowadays Western
journalism is not in any way driven to find truth. They're not practicing any
He's sort of thorough, investigative, investigative processes. They're just pushing their agenda. So seeing it firsthand, even big, big names like the world leading media houses, I have zero faith in them. I have zero belief anymore because they're not. They're not reporting the news. They're pushing an agenda. They are pure propaganda machines at this point. I've seen it firsthand. It's wild. It's absolutely what very interesting. Thank you, by the way, yesterday for your for jumping on with that journalist who was coming up to Andrew, very interesting. There was a journalist who was putting forward the documentary questioning Andrews feet. And they had a bunch of leading
questions. I mean, for those who the leading question is, so on that day, you were pretty angry, weren't you? You know, there was a hang on. You're trying to push towards a certain answer. Cops will use that in interviews. The leading questions coming out of this individual actually, have we recorded in full form something we learned from vise record everything in full form? I know you said that's a that's a rule, one leading question after another. And the way this individual was trying to push the fallacy that tape somehow chose Islam because it would benefit him in terms of his life. And I think first of all, when you become Muslim, there's plenty of hate that comes with that it's
not just benefit. Secondly, his main home base is a strongly Orthodox country.
The idea that he did it for some kind of benefit, or that it was, the timing was mysterious. I first posted and partake in the Middle East in 2018. Even back then he was he was meeting Muslim brothers who took their faith seriously, even back then we were talking about Islam. And the fact that, you know, the call to prayer is, is this some power that is five years ago, more and more, you're spending more time in the Middle East, he decided he wanted to live here, more and more. He's spending time around other Muslims. The idea that is somehow Oh, what a coincidence that he converted, of course, he converted. He was a true seeker as well. He speaks about the devil all the
time, if you consciously he believes, and who take believes to the point where he will put his own welfare at risk that he is leading the fight against shaytaan. Even a year ago, two years ago, he'd say that, of course, he's going to find Islam. Because again, when you pray, you every time you conceptualize evil is out there, Allah subhanaw taala please help me in my fight against the tongue. So this journalist trying to say that he was somehow
Thank you, sir. Let me go people know this address.
This way I got the dog actually,
will try and get the idea that journalists are trying to question his faith, which for Muslims, as I understand it is absolutely Haram is a terrible thing to do. I find it so disgusting. And I'd like to release that video. The way this interview and the other thing he was trying to say that Andrew had chosen Islam because it would help him with business in the Middle East. I'm sorry, this isn't either. Andrews got enough clout. He doesn't need to be most of the happy wanting to partner with him is is genuinely discussing our business in the nice words anyway, genuinely discussing and then one of the questions was, oh, but why doesn't he show more of his faith as I hang on? You? First of
all, you say he's using Islam just for personal benefit. But then you're questioning why he doesn't show his faith because for him, his faith is a private thing. He didn't want to film Shahada. He didn't want to he's he used like family, for example, was very private to him, you know, since gone now.
It's up to you, inshallah. That wasn't planned, by the way.
Yeah, let's have them move on. If not, I might need to go out and have a chat. But yeah, just my point here is, I find it absolutely disgusting. The way journalists will come after take even questioning a man's feet with zero grounds with zero reason, based on the fact that they don't like what he says on the internet is disgusting. What world are we in? Do you can call yourself a journalist and then pretend that you're a professional. When you are questioning a man's fate, one of the most deeply important things in anyone's life based on tweets that you don't like,
based on again, information from non credible sources. So journalists, my goodness, absolute scum, filth, that I've learned that from human experience, you could take the tip the door swing both ways you could just say to me, I don't think you're liberal enough.
So maybe you're liberal, because you're a coward. You have really strong conservative beliefs, but you stay liberal, because you want to stake stain your job. Isn't that true? It's like may not be feminist, but you're a feminist because they don't want you to challenge them. And if it's, is getting quite low if they have to start challenging someone's face to horrible and apparently this whole documentary is based on that disgusting where people's ethics nowadays, and the amount of people who are experts on Andrew Kate having never met him, or having having met him once and you know, like, it's
the amount of experts out there who are
positioning with with, you know, authority to speak about Undertale I'm sorry, yeah, I've been around them. And that's fine. You know what I'm, so I'm a family man. Back in the day, I have very high level top secret clearances. I've held very senior corporate roles. I'm a person who can judge character. I've been trained to assess the profile to interact with people. If agitate was in any way involved in such things are even capable of such things you think I have in my house? You think I'd go
out and throw away my privacy, which I kind of liked to speak openly, speak openly more and more because of the positive feedback I'm getting the initial prompt for me to go loud was to support him and his character, a man of my standing in my experience of my ability to read people. I am the expert on Andrew. I've been around now yes, as I've said numerous times, I'm not objective. I care for the man like a brother, I love him. You know what I mean? But I am critical. And I will not be sitting here arguing for him if he was in any way involved in his bias doesn't always mean for example, falsity. Someone will say, Well, you've got a bias because you can have a bias towards the
truth everyone has by Samsung, yes, you can have the bicycle super fast, you can have a mathematical bias, it's no problem with you. So I have a magical bias Have you people are stupid for doesn't mean that that is false. And the other thing I want to add is that a lot of the views that they come out with, for example, when they when you ask them to, because this is very famous now and you ask I've done this myself, a lot of dentists come to me and they ask me, give me an example of something that you said that. And they'll say where he says this and that but men and women, wherever they quote, for the most part, I can bring you a rabbi who said the same thing. Oh, I can bring you any man who
said the same thing. Maybe I can you bring in Islamic school, I can bring you a Christian priest, you would never go especially to a rabbi, for example, and say, well, your face is this your this because you're scared to be levels and and Semites. You might not even do with the Muslim guy, who's who's, for example, it wasn't what you might do with the Muslims. I frankly, because you throw Islam under the bus, no problem. But there are certain communities of people you wouldn't actually question at that, for example, how to African got, would you go to an African village of a tribe, you believe very similar things and retain and say, Well, you, but even such and such and such
thing? No, because you're free to be seen as an anti black orientalist, effectively colonial person. But the exact same thing has been answered by a person. Actually, I think he's half black. That's beside the point is you think exactly the same thing, as a tribal leader would say in Ghana, exactly the same thing. He's just maybe putting it in a different way in different languages, with different expressions, and also part of the reason why it's so popular. The majority of people agree with him, they just don't have, they have too much dilution. They say it publicly. That's why he's so popular. You said something yesterday speaking to the journalist that he's speaking to Angel truths to basic
biological facts that the vast majority of the world agree with, they're just not in a position to be able to go and speak loudly, because that religion of workers in that cancellation machine would cost them to delete. So that is, yeah, I mean, we've got ample examples of this, for example, when Obama went to Kenya is supposing home country, whatever ethnic country of origin, and the issue of LGBT came about, I should see how conflicted they are speak about the issue. Because on the one hand, we're going to be colonial and impose a culture on the Africans, and they were so tentative and scared on the issue. But when it comes to entertainment, let's just go for it. Because why he's
one of us. He's a Westerner, he's got enough white skin for us.
That's not really a fair judgement. So in other words, certain people, they get a pass, because it's effectively your reputation that you're trying to keep. Yeah, I mean, we have to also understand that this is I don't mean this in a bad way, this is bigger than undertakes being an individual, or it has become a symbol of changing kind of the liberal world order from that perspective. And we have to frame it that way, as well. Because at the end of the day, is what they don't say that matters. Why aren't they putting these famous shade panic wrappers under the microscope, as well know people? Have you seen some of the rap today and their videos? Why don't you and they have a
huge, huge negative influence on you, right? The narrative that's coming from Undertaker and others is be a family, man. Be authoritative, take care of your family,
be accountable traditional values. We have these rappers. Some of them they don't even have a gender. Now they're like, God knows what they are these days. And like literally some of the videos the devil worshippers was
the guy's name, very, very famous one putting them under the microscope getting far more damage. So the thing is, we have to see from a geological perspective, this is an ideological battle. And it was not it was a really that was five years ago when I met tape. And I heard him speaking about the fact that the West is headed for decay in what he called a failed society because the way men and women interact has been interrupted this assault on family unit the assault on masculinity, it's an assault on femininity, as well as women who want to be submissive and care for their husband and, and make the home a beautiful, you know, healing place. They're getting shamed as well. It's a
crisis of masculinity and femininity. Tate was saying clearly that interrupts the way kids are born and raised and then at the macro level, interrupts the way societies are formed. That's why we failed to sign it. Five years ago, I said him first first trip we got on together, I see that you are you have an important role to play in in terms of masculinity in terms of humanity. I'll support you however I can. And here we are. He's become a cultural icon, who is leading the charge as I see it, genuinely. I'm not just saying this with hyperbole, hyperbole, I believe this literally, I believe that he is a leading figure in countering
I have shaytaan in the world. I mean, I don't know if that's, you know, you view that as an overstatement in the culture wars. And we're also speaking about it right now. He's what he's saying, as we said before, first of all, let's look at feminism, because I think one cannot understand the phenomenon undertake without understanding from the feminist. Feminism is a second wave of it been going on from the 1960s. Right. Most of the studies that have ever been done on woman's health because you said it, right. You said femininity, right. It's being under attack. I agree with that wholeheartedly, because if you look at most of the studies, biggest study ever to be
done was Blanchflower and Oswald. And it was a longitudinal study to be done from 1960s to 1990s. It was put into years. And they surveyed women in America and Britain. And they asked them after the obviously the the legislative changes, by April acts and all this kind of thing. And obviously now more in the workplace than ever before of the sexual revolution 1960s on what their mental health was like, the vast majority of women 80, more than 80% actually said that their mental health worse is because you're trying to make a fish fly, and make a bird swim. That's what you're trying to do. So when the feminist movement tried to make the fish fish fly in the bird swim, all you got was sick
and animals. Yes, you know, at the end of the day, and in this case, we have, as you said, the intersexual dynamics are completely disrupted. So what he's doing is he's a corrective. He's a symbol of correction.
Because the thing is, it's not just undertake this, I'm saying to people, is that this was happening before entertainment became famous. People had already found it. If you look at the human service,
there was surveys that were done in Germany, most women in the in the early 2000s. Were saying they no longer ones identifies as feminists, for example. I remember that backlash. Do you know I mean, this this studies have been done as a study called The Paradox of free will happen. Same thing? Why is it that women the more as they give so called Rights, the more they go into the workplace, why is it that we're seeing this double burden on them and the psychological breakdown, realistic, that a woman can manage a career and being attentive mother, and being engaged for her husband is no real? Yes, it's just an unreasonable expectation being placed on women. And if I can just jump in on that,
we can look at feminism from various frames we can look at, for example, statistics that show the more liberal and feminist a country is, the higher the divorce rate, the higher amount of women living on antidepressants, you could argue there's not causation versus correlation. I think it's cause patient, we could look at the concept that through lived experience, that and I tried to voice this on that Vice documentary, I think, I think they did fairly well. The women who I've come across and I've been to 90 countries, I've interacted with everyone, at every different level of social status, I speak numerous languages, I like to really experience a culture. The women who I see who
are most fulfilled in life, are those who are adhering to traditional gender norms. They have a husband, they can respect, they prioritize, they still have work, of course, but they prioritize the family and caring for their man. And if they you know, their loved ones, over chasing, you know, corporate status. And then on the flip side, the men who I see most fulfilled, again, let's look at it in terms of you talked about biology, we are driven by testosterone as men on a very basic level, that is to form a cake and to fight to conquer. We need that mission focus. The men who I see the most fulfilled, have that daily, those daily wins that Congress, whether it's through sport, or
through business, or through that brotherhood, or building empires together, men who are on their mission are the most fulfilled, and we look at women, oxytocin, estrogen, the need for safety, to nest to raise a family to care, the women who are doing those things that are happening is is it really that difficult to think perhaps we should live in it in accordance to not all of human history, but also the actual chemicals that are running through our blood? Yes, is that is chemicals is the right word or endorphins. It's the hormones that are in our blood. Perhaps if we live true to those we might be fulfilled. Why is that equation so challenging and so difficult? Why those maths
so complex for the Liberals to be able to do I think a lot of them now I've just denied a very basic thing, that
you know that the male is not like a female that's a personal Quran, simple verse that was sent in Dubai saying things like don't get cancelled saying no London, you know, I mean, that's as simple as the male is not it's not saying one is better than the other. It's not saying like intrinsic combat is better than war. It's not saying this is just saying they're not like, what we're saying is that nowadays, we're even questioning this reality. We're questioning is a man a man or woman, a woman. So when society has become this sick, this deluded, then it's no wonder we're talking about the neurotransmitters and the hormones wherever maybe in the body that we're now denying the existence.
I think that's one thing. Economically what you're saying is cogent as well, because we've got the Law of Comparative Advantage. Someone's got one specialism and the other one's got another special
Once again, so we don't want to put fish in water in the sky and fish, tell them to fly. So the point is, is that once once you respect that order, that hierarchy of God is the most is the most high. And then you have, you know, a managerial hierarchy, you have the husband telling Yes, the woman what to do, for example, and yes, he, she has to be submissive to Him and obey Him. But also he has more, here's the state says he has the authority, but he also has the responsibility. You cannot be a man who wants to tell a woman what to do, unless you've really got it together. And you can look after her look after your children look after her parents, for example, with that authority
to say no, this is how it is in the household is a caregiving and leading and protecting and providing responsibility. Women I know, they love that idea. They want to be looked after they want to be protected. The feminists who you know, and these liberal women saying we have all the good men don't. The good men are adhering to traditional values. The very good men take faith, ideally, something as strong as Islam very seriously. So they have an accountability to a higher force, your liberal men who have no sense of accountability, nothing, keep keeping them disciplined or on the straight path and think that everything should be equal. I actually heard something the other day,
apparently, in the West, it's women who have asked for flowers from the partner, and the man has returned with a Why don't you buy me flowers.
That's the state we're in this idea that, again, it's been forgotten. The Quran says men and women are not the same if we have equal rights, sure, in terms of everyone being able to live safely and you know, go about their their daily life. But this idea that we're somehow the same is ruining the world. And it ties into one of the first things takes it to me that that's why the West has failed. And that's why I'm sitting here. Because treating two different things the same is impressive.
If two things are different, and you treat them the same, but that's what our source says that he said that
you cannot treat different things equally. Yes, it's a very simple statement. And you know what, it's not just the liberal world order. It's the post modern world order. Now post modernism, which basically says any form of hierarchy is a source of injustice and oppression. And they say there is no objective method to come to an objective truth. That's why they will deny biology they'll deny truth. They'll deny, like you had some crazy person saying like two plus two is don't really fall. Right? Yeah, totally. But he's in a building, which plays an architect absolutely puts two plus two together. And this is the problem. Now what's really funny is they say there is no objective method
to have an objective truth. But they believe in objective truth that there are oppressive hierarchies. And Jeff, it's a contradiction is a total contradiction is what the left specializes in. And I want to I want to drop something here that I read just the other day I went, Oh, well, so relevant. I was reading a book written hundreds of years ago. And it said that at the lowest level of health, I forget forgot the name for that level. That's where the hypocrites Yes. And what is the one tendency we see in liberals above everything else? hypocrisy.
So now, whenever I hear a liberal rant of me, or these haters, or these journalists, I'm just thinking my head, you're going to jahannam and you're taking a sip, you're taking the elevator to the seventh floor, you're going to wreck my friend, it's that's where they belong. They are hypocrites and they're polluting the world. I think sometimes we over philosophize it. And we give it some some kind of intellectual credit, credit credits. I think it's psychological, these people are showered, there are people of blameworthy desires. Literally, it's the it is the worship of the self. Because Allah says in the Quran, have you not seen the one who took his own desires as his
Lord? Because liberalism is the primary source of the individual, the self individualism, post modernism is the primacy of the individual to an excessive degree, right? So this is really what they're doing is moving away from the worship of Allah to the worship of yourself, psychologically, I believe, is that I want to do whatever I want to do. I don't care about hierarchy. I don't care about structures I don't even care about truth is just me, me, me wherever I identify. It's true. This is literally defined as self worship. Have you not seen the monitor his own desires as his Lord? So we should just expose it to that as well. You are a auto auto deity, you're worshiping
yourself. And how's it working out for you? Yeah.
That's the litmus test. Allah is the one with your worship. And once you do that, they see him on the floor, or enemy. I think what we started off by talking about when sort of like the meditative kind of schools of thought they kind of want to talk about the things that the human being should be doing, which is closest to his nature. And the premise is what we're saying is that in fact, the closer the human being is, to his or her nature, the more happy more content more purposeful and meaningful the illogical and fulfilled. I mean, happiness is a mood and also you can get happiness from hedonism. I think I haven't. Yes, fulfillment, knowing you're living a virtuous life. Yes,
that's steady, slow burn of you know what? I'm happy with. No.
I'm content. I'm content and I'm grateful with the way of living. Good, good clarification content.
The word the Quran uses is not happiness. The word the Quran uses is Tomatina or the idea of tranquility, solace, solace, because it says LGBTQ related document, that certainly with the remembrance of God, do hearts find rest to restful state is a tranquil state is a solace that someone has is not necessarily having. In fact, I looked at the whole Quran
and just thought about thinking about where does the Quran use the word happiness with a human being in this dunya and it's really I think it's only in the Quran
could be, it'd be, could be fabulous that your rahmati will be delicate, or fragile, or whoever made round is capital on the one sort of thing that so tune the sources that say it's with the, with the, with the Father, Lord, the grace of God, and His mercy. I either it's better at the Quran is better than whatever they mess, and they will be happy with it. So Quran is the only thing that will follow half in the Quran that will happen is that but generally speaking up to you, right, because happiness is a state and it's not the end goal for the human condition in the Quran, we can get happiness from drugs, and what happens when you cannot get tranquility and fulfillment and heart.
Truly arrest. Exactly. And that's that is what we're looking for. And but even if we don't get this, I mean, let's let's even put that to the side and say if human being is the most miserable state possible, if they're still doing their purpose, if they're still doing what they should be doing and worshiping God, then they're doing the appropriate action to meaning meaning transcend suffering, if you like Viktor Frankl, he wrote a book man's ultimate search for meaning. And he was a Holocaust survivor. He had a viewpoint he said, You can transcend your suffering with meaning, if you stand in the possibility that the meaning that you're giving this particular suffering is not the only way to
give a more empowering meaning you would transcend your suffering. And the beautiful thing about the Quran. The Quran gives you Allah's meaningful your suffering for your life experience. And once you attach Allah's meaning you transcend life's obstacles, like the process someone would his son passed away when he passed away. How does Allah respond? So CalHFA is not even a divine condolences, bro, it's indeed you have been given alfalfa, the abundance that for suddenly Europe became one, therefore pray to the sacrifice. He changed the prophetic mindset from a maybe a depressive state because it's some passed away to one of gratitude. And if you're in a state of gratitude, you can't
get any of the state. And he was reminding the process Salam, I am giving you an A have given you the abundance in this life. And in the hereafter specifically, which we know is the river paradise, but it means other things as well. So if you give the divine meaning to your life experiences, you will transcend those experiences and go back to the point because it's so number one is got by number two is this idea of femininity, my sense which is being suppressed. I was just speaking to the voice before this podcast and saying that, in the modern age, there's never been an age I don't think in human history, where a man's natural proclivity to manifest, ingrained, masculine imbued
naturally born masculinity has ever been suppressed to this level. Like you were saying, physicality now is toxic. If you want to fight, which is if you want to protect if you want to fight that's toxic. If you want to be polygynous, if you want to have multiple, which is a proclivity, which a woman doesn't have, definitely a male sex drive is undoubtedly differentiated from the female sex drive. And it's not just a sex drive is there are so many physiological aspects. If you want to manifest this, you're shamed in society. And that's why a lot of men are listening. This is why Undertale is popular is because this is what we're trying to say he's, he's expressing in a normal
and eloquent language, what they believe in, what they've been suppressed what they've been shamed for their lives. And that's why he's, it's a phenomena. It's not just a person
in the Muslim space, and outside of the Muslim space, we're finding a lot of confusion in relationships. Now, without, you know, mentioning your past sins or something like this, you do have experience obviously,
in this field,
what do you think is going wrong now? First of all, in terms of we talked about, like the gender issues and stuff like that, but is it just that people have become spoiled? have women become spoiled? For example, have men becomes poor? Have we? Have we lost a means to have meaningful relationships in the modern era? Or what's going on? Okay, well, I think the primary problem with wonder relationships is is if we're going to, I think it's men's fault. Really 100% 100% I think men have forgotten how to, to lead. I think men have whether it's their fault or society's programming. They've forgotten what it means to be a man who is worthy of submission from a woman. And I think,
again, the idea of accountability. In the same way a lot of women are saying where all the good men gone. A lot of men are saying where all the good women gone. You
If you build yourself into a man with enough capability and value and experience, you will be able to find good women while he trusted exist.
But I think the phenomena of the red pill
I was, you know, I went through a nine year marriage that was very much a blue pill. So I was doing what society told me. I was essentially getting exploited and walked over, you know, it's an indeed. So all the men in my social circles, like a lot of people think golf is about golf. No, it's not about men whinging about how miserable they are with their wives. That's what golf is. He was wondering why
are you even a sport? Is it someone we can have private chats to complain about? When was the last time you had you know, fulfilling a bedroom with a woman that you're paying everything for that definitely might sums up golf. So I think as a result of the the imbalance of traditional gender norms, most most marriages in the West are very confused. And it's a competition. It's not man does man woman does woman, they work together as a team, which is where fulfillment is, it's we're going to compete, and we're all going to try and do what the other one should do. And everyone should do everything. 5050 doesn't work. And I'd love to see any couple living true to that modern day version
of a relationship who are having strong intimacy. Show me a liberal couple, everything's 5050 Everyone's doing 50% of the housework. Everyone's cutting the bill in half 50%, who is still passionately in love with each other and having a strong physical passion after a couple years, you don't you're saying it's so interesting to know why I was reading a book, I think I mentioned the podcast, a billion wicked thoughts, which talks about like the sexual preferences of people. And in fact, they've tabulated it, they've got like these online things, watches on pornography, and all kinds of anecdotal experiences and questions and all that kind of thing, men and women. And one
thing is for sure, what we're interested in is dominating alpha type male figures sexually. In fact, the question is, good luck.
Because for for people that will challenge us, actually. So it's not it's not research bases, not just something some anecdote or some opinion, some tape of some ashes back three things back. Because when you find like, for example, 50 Shades of Grey, one of these most popular book the last decade,
mostly the British woman, you'll find that women are actually interested, mostly, or the scenario the fantasy is about a man that's domineering. Why is it not a blue head?
Transgender sorry to say again? Why is it?
Why is it you putting your sexual fantasy? Transgender? Why doesn't he become the star of 50 Shades of Grey?
The reason? That's the question, the reason is because what he's saying seems to be the most reasonable reason is that there is a biological proclivity and natural inclination for a woman to be dominated in a certain manner, sexually, and otherwise, it's up to them. If I can, please do Okay, please. So I think there's there's because I think you can offer incense, we will need to, I mean, again, I don't want to say anything inappropriate. But in terms of intimacy, as we know, for 50 Shades of Grey, women want a dominant man. Now, I've often thought and, again, without talking about specifics, 50 Shades of Grey involves a lot of BDSM type stuff, a lot of women are into that sort of
thing. Now, you have to ask yourself, why would a woman be into that sort of thing? I believe it's because if they are confronted with and they experience, the strength and the power of the man they're being intimate with, they therefore feel this is a strong man who could protect me. They also think, Ah, he has that alpha seed, it's then going to give me the strong kid. So I'm going to have the Healthy Kids again, who can go on and protect me and continue the lineage. So they're going to deep psychological level, the the urge, if you will, to be dominated or to be with a dominant man ties into both self preservation survival, because again, okay, nowadays, we have police, we all
have jobs back in the day, as a woman, couple 100 years ago, if you weren't protected by men, you wouldn't service so I can ask a question. Now, my curious sides coming up, you know, one of the categories that will relax is lesbian pornography, for example, even heterosexual woman, what do you think the reason because then someone will say this is kind of like counter to what you're saying and what you're saying, because that's one category that they're interested in. But one category, another category, even heterosexual, men's lesbian, category, and some people have said, that is the reason why is because of the exact opposite reason of what you mentioned, which is that in fact, a
woman knows what a woman wants. She likes essential aspects like the romantic aspect. She likes to be, you know, seduce slowly and these kinds of things. How would you respond to that? How does that fit in with what you're saying? I think it ties in the fact that women are objectively more beautiful than men. I think the most beautiful, feminine form will get a lot more attention from both sexes than the most beautiful masculine form walking down the street. I think I've put it as simple as that.
Yeah, I just think when women are if we break it down, women are so
Throughout history, the beauty has been spoken about. Yes, that's been an overarching like standout in myths and legends, the princess is always beautiful. Whereas in myths and legends, look, he might have nice flowing hair as per some of the Greek classics. But he's defining features in his beauty. It's his capability. It's his character, if anything throughout throughout the, you know, the various message, it's his dominance. So I think the archetypal, I think women are valued more throughout history for beauty, and femininity, and grace, men are valued for capability and dominance and character. So that's why I put that into that. But I'm here because this is
interesting, because one of the, one of the categories that women were not interested in is humiliating them. Like, men might be interested in that. But it's been funny. Funny enough. I mean, one of the chapters of this book was that men like
pork holding, or that they were listening, please.
lesbian issues, don't you think is what they were doing. But it's also important because a lot of people sometimes do we know because we're
not in the I'm not saying in detail. You may not be the objectivity of a female beauty, but it could be that there were certain sexual practices that maybe certain cultures, they don't like to do that, but I forget that this is even in the West. Okay, fair enough. Okay, I think women are more sensual as well. They're more in touch with emotion and more empathetic. A woman as a sexual object is going to be more attentive, generally speaking to a partner's needs than a man. And I can see why some women will be drawn to the idea of other women as a result, that just logically makes sense to me. But if we can, if we can move away from that.
Just going back to the relationships and to your question, I think, well, first of all, a woman's sexuality is that is a chapter of books. And then sexuality is visual stimulation and friction, we know much simpler as creatures. So if we wanted to discuss female sexuality, that could be a series of podcasts. But I think to look at it from you know, the sort of holistic level, I think the reason why relationships, especially in the West, so upside down is they are to use the term they are very blue pill, it's a societal driven. And as per society's norms, Hey, happy wife, happy life, you should do everything you can to make your wife happy. The problem is, when you sit the dynamic where
you are inferior to her and you're doing everything to please her, she will no longer respect you, she will become ungrateful, and we know where that relationship ends. I think it's up to a man to understand some basic facts when he gets into relationship. Number one, every woman has the propensity to be either an amazing, caring, submissive wife, or an ungrateful, overbearing, rude wife. And it comes down to you as the man and the frame you set as to which path she takes. Now, if we look at things, as I said earlier, in terms of basic survival, hundreds of years ago, a woman needed to take from a man take his protection, take his provisioning, take his resources in order to
survive, they couldn't go out hunting by themselves, you know, men did that we can we can agree on that. So, if we flash forward to today, again, even though women don't need men's resources, and they don't need men's protection on the deep hind brain level, the reptilian brain level, they are still, biologically and throughout human history programmed to take from a man. So what does that mean? Yes, give to your woman, yes, be caring, but watch out for that ingratitude creeping in and indeed, the Quran speaks about the fact that we don't even need to gender the majority of people in in hell in Jahannam are ungrateful. And women, again, as a function of their need to survive
throughout history, have a proclivity have a tendency to become ungrateful if not managed. And I see a lot of wealthy guys, their relationship starts off nice, five years later, he hasn't, he hasn't held frame, all of a sudden, she's incredibly ungrateful, he'll give her an 80,000 like $20,000 80,000 gym bag, and it just doesn't register anymore. And that's why as the men, you need to understand that these tendencies exist. And you need to set the frame very carefully. Now what I've seen, again, sort of standard relationship again to the west, woman sees strong man, woman says, Ah, I'm going to lock this man down. He's attractive to all sorts of different women, but I want him to
only be with me. I love the fact that he's highly desirable, but I want him to only be with me, this is a bit strange. And that's is that has a solution for that, of course, he is strong, and he's fit and he's busy. I don't want him to do that I'm going to chip away at is his mates he hasn't, he hasn't enough time for his friends anymore is going to look after me. I don't want him going out to the gym. He needs to be around him that the red pill theory sums it up pretty well. They call it the betta ties ation by 1000 concessions. And that's what you see the power balance change. And all of a sudden, the man is basically doing what the woman says. But the problem here is yes, she resents
him, and then the entire relationship that the sex fades everything. If you do not lead as the men and if you do not reject that modern societal programming, hold masculine frame, we'll talk about how to do that your relationship will end up such that your woman is resenting you and she's ungrateful. The flip side is if you start a relationship, and I think even in the Muslim community, I know that we're encouraged to marry young I see the virtue in that. However, I do know that most
successful relationships. I know as second marriages, when a man's gone through made mistakes, and then got another marriage, it's where I came from. And indeed, Red Pill theory helped me get out of that very toxic marriage and go and create a more healthy understanding of how to interact with women. If at the start of the relationship, you say, and can even write it down, this is what I expect of you. And also, this is what I'll deliver. And the woman writes, This is what I expect of you. And this is what I'll deliver. I understand Islam does that as well, that that setting that expectations very clearly, let's start. And then maintaining it throughout is the key for a man to
hold frame. And also, I know that people might object to this term. But it's almost like there's a bit of a training phase. And and you can say both partners are doing it. You've said, your expectations, X, Y, Zed. I've said my expectations x y Zed, on this day, or at this moment, you're not fulfilling those expectations. As a man, I think you will then again is the one who holds the national favor the household, you will need to continually especially the start of the relationship, catch behavior that has not met expectations, and find a way to respond to that. That, should we say trains or teachers or encourages your partner to act in a way that is healthy for the relationship,
the number one tool that we have is to take away our attention. And indeed the Prophet alayhi salatu salam, he went away for 29 days because he said, You know what, you're not treating me right, I'm going to take my attention away. Now this is where the problem of men's sexual first comes in. A lot of I do believe so set the expectations. If your wife does not treat you with respect, or does not stick to the agreements as to how you should interact in a healthy manner, withdraw yourself, but then men will say, Oh, but I need sex. And my question to that is, where is that thirst coming from? Is it a physical thirst? Or is it a mental thirst interest, if it's a physical thirst, you mean to
tell me as a man you cannot control your urges and feel yourself get more pumped up as the days go on. I like holding on to that sexual energy. I'm hitting harder in the gym, you know, I'm trying to I'm more focused at work. Keeping your your sexual energy and not pushing it out every day makes you more driven, more focused on masking because its power, its energy, right? So okay, so the physical first grow up, you do not need a woman to satiate you physically, you do not need to expand, you don't need to come every day, let yourself build up and focus on your mission instead. And but then we look at the mental first and this is where most men their lives absolutely a disruptive while the
mental thirst is my mum didn't give me the validation I want. And now and now in the moment second, all that made me as well typically speaking, when it comes to interactions with wives that will stem from your childhood issues that you had with your mom with with the feminine, the main feminine influence in your life as you're growing up. A lot of men they didn't get the whether it was the attention or the validation they wanted from their mom, so they're chasing it and women, or there's the whole pay if I if I can impress a woman, therefore I'm worthy. This sort of petty stuff, but again, culture imbues that in a man, every I remember. Just the other day I put on Spotify actually
listened before and shot I put on Spotify. It was a gym playlist. After five songs, I had to turn it off because every single song was, Oh baby, I'm lost without you. All done and give me another chance in the gym playlist. I can't go to the gym without being fed, the assessment is mental has been programming to men. So I think honestly, men need to get over okay, control your physical first champions out areas. Get over the mental first examine why you are seeking validation from women. And therefore, you do not have a woman's ability to give you sex over you. Personally, in my current relationships, any issues, I'll hold frame such that even a raised eyebrow, I feel disrespected.
We've agreed at the start of the relationship, that respect is very important to me. I'm not going to be intimate with you for 72 hours, I will instill I will I will enact a sex fast. Yes. Because I do not have any physical thirst. All right, I'll go to the gym more, or do more push ups mental first. I do not get validation from women, I get validation from higher places from brotherhood from work. If you can, if you can free yourself from that, oh, but I need to be on good terms you know, so I can have six. You are then in a much better position to hold frame. And again if you do not hold frame. After five years you become ungrateful, the sex the passion will be gone. She will not
A woman is happiest when she is with a man she can look up to and respect and think that man is my hero. That is when a woman is happiest. A man is happiest when he is focused on his mission and his holding firm and He's respected that line. A man must feel respected before it can feel loved is very important. And for me, I said at the start of relation relationships, I will say I have said
I will not tolerate any ingratitude I will not tolerate any disrespect, even a facial expression that shows disrespect you. Then there will be there'll be I don't even like to use the word consequences. Sounds like you're punishing. I'm not punishing. I'm teaching you yes if you want to have a loving intimate relationship, I expect certain things so the agreement at the start should
So every man should have his self control and his self awareness together such that he can say, we're not going to be intimate now. And it's the woman who's lifting it off. That's the dynamic you want. The Healthy dynamic is when a woman wants intimacy more than a man. And you can set that up if you're if you get rid of your thirst, you learn to channel your your physical thirst and really released.
This is golden information, by the way is fantastic. And especially I think with Muslim men, I'll be honest, I mean, a super, super drug is a, you know, pharmacy in England, but they also do studies and stuff, they done a study on sexual body counts of the average person the age of 21. Okay. And in England, this the average number for a meal is 9.5. But he did 21. Okay, now the muscle seems like a lot, it seems like a lot. But if you if you say the Muslim community, I probably bet it's either zero or one at the maximum. Now what that does for Muslim man, and this will only kind of replace it because most of the men don't have the experience for
pound for pound comparative to the kind of, you know, co equal or whatever, maybe it's different, because, you know, you read about something, you know, you guys are, in a sense to have an advantage. But in a sense, I'm not as a disadvantage. You could tell me, but we learn from us, we have the opportunity to learn from mistakes. Yes, I think if you marry young, perhaps you don't know. Because that's number one, you're usually with one woman, and a lot of them are probably all their lives. And for the most part, the Muslim woman is not going to it's going to be very, very against the idea of polygamy. She might even weaponize the children, she might reduce, you might
even engage in some of those actions that the majority population are doing right. Not all of them to be fair, but a lot of them will do this kind of thing. As such, when you're talking about a sexual first, that neediness for the woman is setting expectations. Really, it's at the start. Yeah, all of that kind of thing kind of fades away. And a lot of men actually said this to me. Like, honestly, when
I find it, I know the answers because what you're saying is, when you open that door, Jack, leave them in the bed. That's stage two, in chapter four, verse day four. And we're letting them in the same type of boss, who are
that those who leave their wives, essentially sexual fast when it is not just sexual fast. Sometimes its attention, its attention fast. Yeah. You've just done something that's disrespected me as your man, I work very hard to provide this reality exactly. As you've just disrespected me, and I want you to learn not to disrespect me, we're not going to you know, and it's not passive aggressive, you just you just withdraw your attention. And it's been four months for that. People don't even know that.
Well, you've drawn your red lines, nobody must, you must, which means that if so, of course, what I mean is like, so for example, if obviously, you could, I'll be honest, like someone raised eyebrows, and you go four months, there'll be an extreme reaction, but I'm saying, for instance, if she'd done something pretty, pretty significant, let's say, Yeah, disrespected, your mother disrespected you in front of people, whatever. You decide, I'm not gonna be here from next 90 days. That's actually within your right. Islamically. Speaking, for example, you just mentioned here is, so it's like, right, it's in the Quran itself. I think two days is enough. But I mean, 90, if you want to know
what it's up to, it's up to four months. That's what I'm saying, Don't go over four months, for example, you have you have you have this maximum. And the problem was, I think it was 29 days. I mean, that's one thing. The other thing which I found so powerful about what you said, because it's so strongly correlates with the zero, there's one thing people don't realize is that the process of actually gave all nine words at the same time, he gave them some books here. And this is the Quran and continue to read and are hired to do his interpretation. And continue to read and I've had dunya was in it to have a dialogue, Vita, Ali, Ahmed, Hassan, Hassan jameelah, if you want, because they
were complaining about the living situation, because the process for point in time lives in impoverished conditions. His wife said that, eating dates and drinking water, and this is the kind of thing so they'll complain about the living situation. So then, this situation took place where he separated from them for a long time. And then this was came down, which is, if this is a this is a conditional that is set to the prophets, wives, if you want a moment of this life, or this life, and adornment, then come on, I'll let you go. Now, what people don't realize is that this was actually winding if any one of his nine wives at any point said I don't want to be with you anymore, it would
be effective. And they would not have been, you know, punished in a punitive way. In other words, he actually the Quran and the salaam gave them the right to leave if they wanted to. They don't just jump in. Yes, keep the flow going. That is incredible. Because one of the important parts of keeping that mess in the frame for the overall health of the relationship is, as the man you should always be ready to say that we're done. You have to you cannot be 13 Okay, you disrespect me, but I'm going to keep you next we know, you cross certain lines, we're finished. There's no hard feelings. I'm not gonna be nasty. I'll take care of you financially per the contract we've engaged in. But even like,
no matter how much you love a woman, if she crosses certain lines, and doesn't respond to your request for her not to stop them. You need to be okay to walk away. And that's where a lot of men make mistakes. They're thirsty for six if they're
See for approval. All she disrespected me all but she, the amount of guys I've been in very high end dinners and their own wives have disrespected them openly in front of a group of people. I'm like, brother, it's your house, ask her to leave.
There's men forget that they have the right to request respectful treatment from their partner. And if you don't get that, you need to be ready to walk away instantly. Yes, but again, men are so thirsty nowadays, again, because that blue pill programming, so they just don't know how to hold. What you're saying is that it's ironic that that's the case, because that actually puts them off by the man. And I was actually reading a study two days ago, three days ago that allows humans to study. So I can give you the name of our platform, but it's basically the top reasons why people get divorce. And the and the people the study mentioned 12 reasons. One of them was extreme cleanliness.
neediness thirst, yeah, the stimulus. And I said, this is one of the reasons why you'll get divorce because when a man is clingy is one of the worst characteristics. It shows all the wrong signs. Yes. And that's why I think Polygamy In a sense, can actually save marriages, if we're gonna make two points very quickly. And the first point is the reference that you made about the ingratitude unhealthy, it's the Hadith from other people. The second thing that's important as well is, and this is my view, is that this conversation shows that we don't need a movement outside of Islam, to teach us how to have a good healthy marriage. We don't need red pill to blue pill with a green pill, we
just need Islam and the Prophet SAW Allah calmly say that Islam is the green pill. Yeah, because
there's a really nice brother in Canada who's got this green pill thing going on. He shows from the Quran and Sunnah how to be, and have prophetic masculinity
was not a problem. And my worry is, I don't want people watching this now going all the way to the rental movement, because it may be some good things. But as other blame red pill can help you see what's wrong in your relationship, but it has zero answers. Good. And you're just like, we're talking about the fact that the idea of the sex class or the idea of how to how to have a clear expectation, this is 100%.
Sorry, appeal at all. This is the name of the study, whether it will be referred to as partner precede. Basically, if you keep doing so it's really good. We made that clarification that Islam has a solution to this to this dynamic between the male and the female. So you were talking about polygamy?
Sometimes, you know, because it's such an unexplored option for Western Muslim people, polygamy. I mean, for the majority of population, it's completely unexplored. And people, a man would be happier to get divorced, and he would do polygamy, because the woman has set the conditions for him. If you do this, this is going to happen.
See, I don't I really don't understand that, in that. If a woman truly loves her men, and truly trusts him, and truly wants him to be happy, can she not understand that he has a natural, strong urge for sexual variety that's at a very deep level, and that there is a safe, respectful, halal way with which to pursue that if he is at the standing where he is able to provide for multiple families, not just financially, that's easy partners, but in terms of time care, empathy, family leadership, I don't understand why it's so hard for, for women to understand that. I mean, look, I didn't choose to need sexual variety are the ones that so badly is in me. And if anything, if I
could turn off the need for sexual variety, wouldn't be easier.
If you could have one woman and genuinely feel, you know, this is enough for me, wouldn't that make all of our lives easier? However, the reality is, if you only intimate with one woman as a man over time, even if she's the best woman in the world, you will start to feel the need for something else. And also, as we know, if you do have multiple women in a halal way, you will have higher testosterone you will put more energy into into are all I've got multiple families will have to I need to be the man like to me it's just it's natural. I don't know why it's demonized is the only thing is backed by science backed by psychology, the this the probably the one of the biggest
studies have been done. Baumeister and Cantonese. And they did actually compare the sex life of a man and a woman. And they refer to the sex drive in the way that you have just have. This is not just a frequency of sexual experience is the variety. Because I was thinking about this. I was speaking to the guys about this as well, but asked me why I keep saying,
Well, I was speaking because you know, in a sense, a Muslim man, for example, talking to the community, maybe a Jewish man has, well, a lot of religious people, the same thing would apply. He may have more sex than the average Western person. Why? Because at least if he's got one person, he's having sex with me every day or every other day or three times a week or whatever it may be right depending on the age and experience, but he doesn't have as much variety. So in one way, the average western man, although maybe he's got like three sexual partners in the year maybe there's a long distance between one and the next one, but you have to find her in the cloud.