Intellectual Seerah #3 Pre-Islamic Arabia
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Channel: Mohammed Hijab
Series: Mohammed Hijab - Intellectual Seerah
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AI Generated Summary ©
The Bible is a valued and important source in the Middle East, with connections to profit, water use, and worship of the gods. The holy eye is a significant component of the worship process, with its political and cultural significance and importance in shaping culture. The holy eye is used to indicate the return of a son, and the return of a deathbed is discussed as a political and cultural context.AI Generated Transcript ©
Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. And how are you guys doing and welcome to the third session here we're talking about the intellectual siara. We are dissecting, we are extrapolating, we are analyzing and we
are discussing, we are discussing the life of the prophet muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. And just as a recap to interleave in pedagogy and andragogy they refer to this process as interleaving interleaving is connecting the end of one session with the beginning of the next Just a quick one now,
in the first and second sessions we spoke about what's the first session we spoke about, whether we speak on the phone the historicity, yes, the historicity of the Prophet Muhammad, the prophet to different religions and sources and Okay, so give me some, some sources from the top of your head without looking at notes. What are some of the sources generally speaking, that one can invoke to prove the existence of the Prophet Mohammed salah, Salah
coins?
Manuscript? Okay, yeah, so you've got the Birmingham manuscripts, what is that manuscript dating back to, I think was like 2030 years after the process, and it was during the time of the Prophet Muhammad 568 to I think it was 665, something like that. And when did we say the process on 911 1111? Ad? Yeah, which is what 68682 Excellent. So this is within the timer. So that was a good thing. But what about things from non Muslim sources, non Arabic sources.
So we're talking about charisma church, and that that particular church was very unique and it had shrines and stuff like that the Maryanne shrines and stuff like that. And that that information, according to Stephen Shoemaker has, he himself has like an Orientalist effectively of the new age could is unthinkable he says that that could have been something the Prophet Muhammad or even the Christians of the time, he says even the Christian time could have known that information and the story of Mary in the Quran very similar to the liturgical practices of the people in that church at the time. And they had the story of, you know, the palm trees and these kinds of things. When Mary
Mary Hasulam, shook the palm tree and the blades came down and these things in the some aspects of,
of that particular narrative, and even the octahedron in the whole hour, it says also stuff, Harun, even that is in some of the liturgical practice, that's one thing, but let's go back straight before. So the prophesy Salam di 632. In the period that came after 636 640 and 660, those particular dates were covered. What were some of the sources that we spoke about? Some Roman sources? One was about the Battle of Yermak, I think, yes. And you know, what the year that was, what year 6666 is, how many is authorized, sometimes deaf for four years? And you know, what the name of the sources? No.
No, not yet. Not yet. That's 660. That is the fragments of the Arab conquests. The fragments of the Arab conquests 636. Then you had 640. Thomas whom?
No, no, Aquinas is much, much of a way. So Thomas presbyter 640. And he also had an account. All of these people mentioned the problem hasn't named by my name. Him, they mentioned him by name.
And he went into a little bit more depth, and he's also talking about a battle. And then you had Simon of serene and not Simon Nasri. Now what's his name again?
The Waltz's who's got on the nose on 667 a serene is a completely different character.
Well, we had a sources IQ 60, which talks extensively about the problem was was that was his mission. He that he was a preacher that he was,
yes, CBS, CBS, this particular source. And he had in the whole written account of the process, a lot of his his aspects of his premiership, or his profit. So these are just three examples. So that's the existence of a prophet, for example, so you'd be able to speak with someone who's non Muslim and explain the existence of the sun through the sources. Then we spoke about virtue in the second session, and we spoke about the beauty and what it means. What are some of the things we've talked about in terms of beauty? What two views are there? Broadly speaking?
The Objectivists and subjectivist. Yeah, so we've talked about the objectivist view, which holds that beauty is objective, right? Who believes in that?
Yep.
Oh, oh,
yeah, I Aristotle,
thinkers. And then subjectivist like David Hume, for example, Immanuel Kant took on water
objective is understanding of beauty. We applied this, and that and those who are objective has said that beauty is more symmetrical, it's more proportional, etc. And then we spoke about virtue, we spoke about the physical characteristics of profit, very much matching some of these things, for example, symmetry, proportionality, etc. And then we move to the virtue of the perfect houses, I had the beauty encounter of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. Now we're going to the third session, which is some of the aspects of pre Islamic Arabia. Now, usually in the Sierra, this is people actually, it is hardcore, even Hashem and others spend quite a long time on this,
actually, we're not going to be spending as much time on this only because really, the amount of Hadith, authentic narrations related to these kind of things is scanty. It's scarce, it's not that much, you'll be surprised. However, having said that, the
purpose, if you like, the objective of this particular session, is that we can get the intellectual aspect out of this. So what is the intellectual aspect, the arguments that we can make from some of the narratives that relate to Islam particular? So
one of the narratives is the following. We know
we believe as Muslim people, that Islam is the religion of submission that you had Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad Sallallahu wasallam. And that Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam came from the lineage of Abraham, through Ismail, Ishmael. That's the narrative of Islam. Now, that narrative where the prophet does Abraham, there's, it's my, there's a lineage and then there's Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu sallam, that particular narrative is rejected by Jews and Christians. Because if it wasn't rejected, there would be Muslims effectively. I mean, it's straightforward thing, but it's rejected. Even the connection between Abraham, okay, and Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam or its Malin
hammer to be more specific, that's even rejected, there is no connection, they would say, this is something you made up. This is a fiction, this is Arabian fiction. This is a mythology. This is a legend.
So what we do then, as we defend our position, on facts, we make our own argument. The first thing I want to show you is, in fact, something in the Bible. So we're starting off this session by reading from the Bible.
And this is what the Bible says in Genesis chapter 21, verses eight to 20, the child grew and was weaned on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. But Sarah, so the Son whom Hagar the Egyptian had born to Abraham was walking. And she said to Abraham, get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman's son will never share in the, the inheritance of my son Isaac, the matter the stressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son, but God said to him, Do not be sort of stressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to what, to whatever Sarah tells you, because it's through Isaac that your offspring, we reckon, of course, he can see, you can argue I mean,
excitement, the Jewish influence. I mean, this is the same book that talks about Israel being like a wild donkey, effectively, they're very, very, if you look at the Old Testament, you'll feel like a lot of anti kind of anyone who's not Jewish remarks, you'll find that there. And this is God telling Abraham the patriarch, no, listen to your wife. Forget about this. Leave that slave woman alone. Listen to your wife. Because you know she's she comes from the healthy progeny where Isaac will be and of course, the Jewish the lost sheep of Israel, we're going to be
so you got to listen to that one. Forget about this one. You can see the distortion in there. But of course, that's something we can discuss another time.
I will make the son of the slave into a nation also. Oh, how convenient. Okay. So he certainly got all of this right.
Because he is your offspring. Early the next morning, Abraham took some some food and a skein of water and gave them to Hagar. She set them on her shoulders and sent she sent her off with a boy. She went home, she went on her way and wandered in the desert of Bathsheba. Okay, now we'll come to the second.
Verse 15, when the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes, she went off and sat down, about a bow shot away. For she thought, I cannot say
I cannot die or watch the boy die. Now here you can see the continuities between the Islamic narrative and the biblical narrative. Now here is, as you can see, very close here, right? And she sat there, she began to sob. God heard the boy crying. And the angel of God called the Hagar from the heaven and said to her, What is the matter Hagar, do not be afraid. God has heard the boy crying as he lived there.
Lift up the boy and take him by the hand for I will make him into a great nation. Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of world
her. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy and he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the desert of Perrin, his mother got a wife for him in Egypt.
Now, we've already covered this, but just to remind you, the Palestinian Talmud, which is authoritative for Jewish people, states the following
that the Paragon we've read this before, but just to get to the point, the article concerning Arabia, and we've discussed in previous lessons how Paragon is talking about Arabia, if you remember that, we spoke about the connection. So what do we have here? We have a smile according to the Bible, not according to the Quran, according to Islamic sources. It smile, according to the Bible is connected, obviously to Hagar, same thing, but isn't connected to Arabia.
And not only is he connected to Arabia,
not only is he connected to Arabia, but the story of the well in Arabia is also there in the Bible and is corroborated by the Talmud. Wait a minute. Isn't this very interesting?
I find this interesting, for for many reasons. Number one, you cannot invent maker well, like geologically speaking, you need what you call an aquifer. Like you get you have, for example, you know, a certain floor, you have desert and then below that you have something called an aquifer. Now, this aquifer is basically where the water is, and sometimes it's deep, and sometimes you have to dig it and so on.
But you can't invent that. That's a geological reality.
Now, if that is a geological reality,
let's see where this well is. So we'll continue reading.
continue going through this, what it looks like, by the way, before they put pipes in the fifth slide that you can see, before they put pipes and now it's become a huge
infrastructural, kind of complex thing. And I'll talk about this, because some of the people will say, how could you get 2 million inhabitants in Mecca? 2 million, right? And when it's actually isn't, it goes up to 5 million, because people come from all over the world. And if you've been there before, you'll know that you know, everyone's drinking exams and water. How can such a small world give so much people water to drink free of charge, by the way?
So I mean, some of the orientalist will say actually it can't be. So what you have is decentralization plants, this water is not coming from that well, in fact, where it's coming from is the Red Sea.
So, when you see the pipes coming in to the well, now, you see if you see the for example, the infrastructure in the well, the pipes are not just coming in from that well from the aquifer is coming from the Jeddah, which is next door and Mecca, is coming from the decentralization plants is going in this mixing with wherever the World Water is, and then it's giving people water to drink.
It even if that was the case, for the sake of argument, no problem, no problem. Let's just say for the sake of argument, there's truth in that I haven't gone to investigate it. But for the sake of argument we'll give you
but this one has been around for 1400 years. And there's documentation and it's so easy to prove scholars for years and years and years talking about drinking from the well of zamzam.
So even if you say well, in the 1970s, I think it was King Abdullah or face Allah one of them, one of the kings of Saudi Arabia, in the 90s, whoever who was in the 70s I can't remember what face I should be. So Faisal, who put these these pipes in place and done all these kinds of things. Even if you say when I say welcome, no problem. But when when Saudi Arabia didn't have the infrastructure or the money to build the infrastructure, what was going on then? Oh, by the 1800s, but the 1700s, you're gonna say that the well of zamzam didn't exist. So how comes you have an aquifer now and you didn't have the one then, for example, it's not an artificial reality. This is a reality for 1000s
for over 1000 But at least have history we have historical reports we will drink them as well.
And now this is very significant for us and people don't really pay attention to this point. I mean, it's extremely sick. I mean, how significant this is, is extremely significant. Because you already have now no pun intended a genesis of this narrative in the book of Genesis, right? You have a genesis of this narrative literally the book of Genesis telling you that okay, well this boy was given water to drink in parent which would have connected to Arabia.
But then you have this well is still here. You can go and drink the water from it even right now. Go and get a plane ticket and go to Mecca and drink the woods. Okay, so okay, there's more to be said about this.
You see, Allah says Robina in the Scantron the reality beware in the way the design and in the vertical Muharram are up banner up masala fragile editor Mina, nasty necesita Hui la him mazzucco Minister Mattila longish Quran. This is what this is the Quran right? So the Quran says the following our Lord I have settled some of my descendants enough
ally of no vegetation, by your sacred house our Lord. So they may come they may perform the prayers so make some of the people's high incline towards them provide them with fruit so that they may give thanks
i in the bicycle Mahara i in the beta bicycle Mahara by your,
your house, which is what the camera right? Okay, so where is this? Well, this well is actually by the camera, if you if you've been there used, you see, it's literally if you're going to do into off, you know Utah off, so I can ambulation of the camera, it's there. There's even a little sign on the floor says this is where the weather is.
And if you go underneath, that's where the wind is.
So what do we have here we have an additional piece of information, you got the cap, which is a structure which has been operational for for God knows how long now obviously we have a narrative is that this area has been operational for until from Abraham's time.
But you have the well mentioned in the Bible.
It's mentioned the Quran
is mentioned the hadith is mentioned everywhere. Then you have the Kaaba. And it just so happens that this is the hometown of who we are considering to be the final prophet.
Can you see the stars are aligning
the stars, it's not just some you know, we're not making this thing up. I mean, these are things you cannot make up. Unless you want to establish some kind of conspiracy and say, the you the Saudi Arabians with the with their money. What they've done is they put water on the ground to create a well, you can't actually do that. That's not how things work. And as I said, we've got historical accounts for 1000 years that this has been operational. zamzam. Therefore Zamzam water is a sign it is an evidence of the veracity of Islam. People don't realize that because it connects the dots in a manner which makes the the the authenticity
of the narrative, the one of the key chief narratives of Islam, which is that there was a connection, inextricable between Abraham and Mohammed Salah Salem through a smile, it legitimizes that narrative through geographic evidence, geologic evidence, which we can actually test today.
We didn't think about that before. Maybe not in those terms.
And of course, there is a Hadith, because if you look, if you read the Sierra,
there's a hadith of Abdulmutallab, you know, the granddad of the Prophet Muhammad Salah Salem,
where he basically had this dream, because the you know, they didn't know this well was there.
They had this basically has this dream, and this dream was that, you know, go and say this, and then the word, ZamZam wasn't a dream. And then he went and dug the thing, because the dream was there. And then he kind of re excavated it, or whatever you want to say. And this actually, this is one of the things I was looking at the veracity of the Hadith, and it's authentic. This hadith is authentic, according to
Abraham Ali.
Allah, Jehovah in this heart could be sending the HIPAA, Carla had death and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He says, it's mentioned in this book.
Because we are trying to maintain the integrity of the and authenticity of Hadith, when we're going because a lot of this has been so nice to have, you'd be surprised to go into this era, so many of them are not actually authentic.
So we were already discussing these analyzation plants make some water, monetary arguments, although the motors free, actually. And we say we're doing they're doing this to get so suddenly we can get money. I don't know why Saudi Arabia will try to make money but the Senate voted to give a free, maybe they should have put some money like a computer would buy this thing. I mean, they could, but they don't. To be fair. And this is something which you people can say whatever that is, their parent is not Arabia, but we've already discussed all the references with that. There's no connection between from having a smile, which there is because in the Bible itself, it says that
it's miles from the son of Qaeda and Qaeda and tells you it locates him at Arabia and all these kind of things. So even from a biblical perspective, they know that Ishmael is an Arab. They know that that the biblical scholars know that he was
and Sons of Qaeda and all that kind of stuff to measure the book of Genesis so Hala has done Yanni.
Obviously, they try and mock him. If you look at once again, if you look at the Old Testament, the kind of depictions of Emma's mockery and stuff like that because of the tribal allegiance they have to their own tribe. Yeah, I had a quick question. So a smile is arrow.
Does that make Ibrahim Ali Salam? What does that make him? He wasn't our because the thing is Arabic language really the formation of Arabic language
is the most linguists will say the following most linguists will say
that there is something called the proto Semitic language in Arabic called Luca sCMOS. Alone. Yeah, so these are the all of the like Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, all of these kinds of languages. They go back to one common ancestor effectively is what they say. And this common ancestor is not available to us now. And we don't know what the languages look like.
But obviously we know we'll talk about this actually because it's in the slides. But Abraham was, was situated in Mesopotamia. Yeah. So the current day like you're Rocking the Cradle of the earth. And so, you know, but it's at that time that there wasn't Arabic that was being spoken. I mean, and we'll talk about that in a second. But the point is,
is no, he couldn't be said to be at all. In fact, and you know, the classes fee is to be a unit MACOM Mocambo Ibrahim, when the holla who can Amina fee is on bayonet. So what are the AF bayonets when you go into this place? Some of the scholars say middle aged at all from the as an evidence isn't science is zamzam actually, because you have the Marshall haram, you have this you have that? You have the cabaret itself. These are all eight. He's all evidences. But the zamzam is a sign. It's the well of zamzam isn't evidence because the Quran in fact, the Quran is telling you this, they added the Quran is telling explore this argument, and we said before that you'll find the best
arguments in the Quran itself. So the Quran is redirecting us effective that area, it's telling you to explore the area, because when you explore that area and the geography of it, the geology of it, the history of it, you will start seeing all these arguments.
And, but then the question is, I mean, obviously we spoke about the historicity of David, we spoke about the historicity of Solomon, if you remember. Do you remember that? Remember, we spoke about the historicity of David? Does anyone remember the kind of steelie that changed the game in terms of that? Yeah, just a tablet? Yeah. What's the name of that tablet or steal a Tell? Tell? The tell Dan stealing? I tell them yeah.
Tell us more. What did it do?
We said, We mentioned
this was one language. Now this is different this is that you'll probably think about the Rosetta Stone as
it mentioned. Also, David, yes, it House of David and stuff. And that's what people change their minds evenly is often because I always said there's two schools of thought the the minimalist and maximalist in secular academics and stuff like that, and the minimalist. They had a very staunch view when it comes to these kind of things. And when that still came to light, they changed their mind, because it was actually How could this be is inexplicable? Why is David there? And it's dated? Actually, we'll come to that in a second. But actually, when it comes to Abraham, though, though, there isn't any direct evidence of his existence. I mean, there isn't because it's so far away.
We're talking about three, three and a half to 4000 years. And I'll tell you how I came to that formulation. But three and a half, we're talking about when did Abraham exist? If we look at Jesus existed for the sake of argument, he they say he, he died, but we say he disappeared, let's say, hola. But Rafael lo la, when was about 35 ad? AD. So we're talking about good 2000 years ago, effectively, just years ago, Jesus about 2000 years ago, 1000 190 years, something like that. Yeah. That's Jesus.
Moses is, I don't know, add another 1000 years to that or something, we'll come to exactly the days I've got them written up. But he's at the time of, let's say, ramps to the secondary, they say, right. And then Abraham, we're talking about 3003 and a half 1000 to 4000 years, a very long time ago, very, very. So when we're talking about an individual figure 4000 years ago, you're trying to find proof of existence and a rich literary tradition and literary tradition and stuff like that, you're not gonna find it. So it's too obscure, unless we're talking about King and even some of the kings of Mesopotamia and the Old Babylonian kingdom. They're not mentioned we don't even know some
of the kings even. So, that's why you're not gonna find that much evidence.
But then, obviously, as we as we know the tail dynasty, so someone says that we don't have evidence and therefore doesn't exist. That's called a fallacy called the argument from Silence is a known historical fallacy called the argument from solid just because it goes back to the lack of evidence or the the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For a very long time, people didn't know that Neptune existed, it doesn't mean okay. Therefore, therefore, Neptune doesn't exist just as you can see it. So we know what to tell dansili. These arguments from Silence are very problematic for stories, especially ancient historians,
because something can on Earth, just like the Tel Dan stele and on earth and then people change their mind so I have a strong view on it.
So yeah, this is the timeline here. Look, Abraham the, the Old Babylonian Empire was around this time since 1894 to 1594 Most biblical scholars for the sake of argument, they came back to the Old Babylonian Empire. So if we're saying 1894, that's about to start that's 4000 years ago, effectively, like 3000 100 years, something like that. Yeah.
Ramses the second is 1303 to 1213. So you can see there's about 600 years between them,
you know, give or take three to 600 years, something like that. Yeah. Do they have them because we
No, Prophet Abraham was he was in disabled numbered. Do we have any archaeological evidence of number of no question that Nimrod himself as a king, they don't have any data. In fact, they are very skeptical of his existence, the secular academics, but some of them have said that could be this game could be that King, so it's not conclusive. But Nimrod himself, there isn't. The name doesn't appear in the king lists. That's what they say at the moment that I was just saying, some of the kings don't actually, the king lists are not decisive. That would be like a title. Could be a title. Yes. Yeah. Because fit on is that MC stands for Aina serial
number, it could be another one name. And then there could be sources. Yeah, yeah, it could be for sure. But if you're talking specifically about that name, David, as we said, to tell dancila, so it's an 877 50. So as you can see that there's a good three 400 years between them more than actually do the math, I don't know the methods. And then once again, like 700 years from date from Jesus to sorry, from from David to Jesus, as you can see, and then look, 600 years from Jesus to Muhammad Salah was snot. Yeah, it's not like we're saying that these are the only prophets, of course, we believe that traditionnelles has 124,000 profits. But when you talk about last minute,
Russell, obviously David doesn't mean all of them. But some of the big names in the Quran, you can see there's like a serious distance between them three to 400 500 years, three to 400, have you read, then the major protagonist starts to come out. Moses comes out, Jesus comes out Muhammad, Salah son comes out Abraham was just I mean, it's 300 years between them.
And you can start seeing there's a narrative here, which is starting to make historical sense, every 300 years, four to 503 500 year, whatever it may be, around that time, you're starting to see a new, very important profit being mentioned, or shown in the historical timeline. So you see,
archaeologically, okay, as we said, with Abraham.
I'm Dr. Sarah sorry. She actually says what why is one of the reasons why she's a historian of this period of Old Babylonian period. Yeah, it was the reason why we couldn't it retrieve so much archaeological evidence for that time she goes was because there's a high water table. So a lot of the archaeological
things are not actually found. You know, what I mean? So and you'll find actually that a lot of the stuff in terms of the agencies and stuff are really discovered 100 years ago, 5080 years ago, 90 years ago so on like, a lot of discoveries have been very, very recent.
This is what Britannica says about Abraham, okay, so I'm just gonna copy and paste from, from literally a secondary source material says that there can be no biography of Abraham in the ordinary sense, the most that can be done a supply interpretation of bond historical finds, to biblical material so as to arrive at the probable judgment as to the background and patterns of events in his life. Okay. And then it continues. Thus there are two main sources for reconstruction, the figure of father Abraham,
of father Abraham, the book of Genesis, from the genealogy of terror, Abraham's father, and his departure from earth to harangue in chapter 11.
To the death of Abraham in chapter 25, and recent archaeological discoveries and interpretations concerning the area and era in which biblical narrative takes place. And then it continues, it says most scholars agree that our custom was the Sumerian sitter of today tool, especially, and more it's just one more area Mahira Meyer isn't been a raucous. I'm asking you at
about 200 miles south east of Baghdad in lower Mesopotamia, which was excavated from 1922 to 1934. This was about 100 years ago, this Imagine 100 years ago, we didn't have this information, because there was no excavation. Now we have it is certain that the cradle of the ancestors with the sea of vigorous policy ism, whose memory had not been lost, and whose uncontested master and or was Nana or sin, the Sumerian Akkadian moon god, they served other gods, Joshua Moses successor, recall speaking to the descendants at Sheshan. Okay. Now really
this is the reason I want to bring this to your attention there is.
Although
there isn't any direct, let's say specific archaeological discoveries of Abraham. There is something else we can do with this to create an argument and the best person I've seen that has made an argument he's put a video on this, I think, got over a million views now. And he's actually produced many of the books that we use here as well. His name was I was a Harry, I'm not sure you've come across him. I was a career he's, he's got a website called many prophets, what many, many prophets one message, many prophets one message, and he's written the book on prophecies, the forbidden prophecies, and he's also written the eternal challenge. You might have come across him
He makes a very interesting argument against Abraham and I wanted to bring it to your attention. He says, Look,
archaeologically,
archaeologically, if you think about
when this guy said, Leonard, I don't know his surname is but I'll come to in a second, I think, isn't it? It's so Leonard.
Second embryos name
Yeah. Where'd you get that? Last slide number?
After the picture?
Yes. whooley? Yes. Salon is Willie M. So salon is really in from 1922 to 1934. When they excavated the region, yeah. And they found the city of earth and all those kinds of things. They they started to understand things they never understood before. Okay, fine. So Recent archaeological finds have led us to certain place now. Yeah. Okay. What do we find? We find more information about not only Old Babylonian, because there's a difference between the Old Babylonian kingdoms and what they called Neo Babylonian kingdoms. And there's not much that separates them in terms of, you know, when the old one ends, obviously, the new one begins, okay. But question is, what were they worshipping?
And what you'll find is that they were worshipping a multiplicity of gods, yes. But they had this thing called the astral triad. And this was like, it makes the point that actually look, if you think about it, you've got the astral triad, which consists of what the sun the moon, and Venus, the Sun, the Moon and Venus. Now, why is this significant for us? Because if you read the Quran,
you will find that Abraham is speaking to His people. For La Mer, Hashem, Saba, and Carla, there'll be haddock, this this whole discourse is happening with Abraham and his people.
And he says, I looked at the the stars the word Cal cap could mean start can also mean planet. He said, Heather be this is my load fella fella. Here, when that when it disappeared is that I don't like those disappear. When he said we saw the moon. He said, Hey, that'd be he said, This is my load. And then when it's a PDF, I don't like those disappear. And then he when he saw the shrimps, the sun.
He says, Heather, I'll be Heather Akbar. This is my Lord. This is the big one. Obviously, even bigger, or even greater, bigger. Yeah. or greater.
And then, well, I felt that he said that when it disappeared, he said that if God doesn't guide me, then I'll be have the, the straight people.
So you can see that Abraham in the Quran is the Scott. He's mentioning three celestial spheres, or bodies. He's mentioning the sun, especially in the moon. And he's mentioning the Cal cap, which could either mean star it could either mean planet.
This information is not in the Bible.
Now that is interesting, isn't it? Because we said that recent archaeological discoveries are apples academic support, and said look, recent archaeological discoveries and showed us that in particular, yes, they used to worship the earth in disguise no matter what they had, there was a specific significance for the what you call the astral triad. And how do we know that these three things in particular, had specific significance. For example, through what you call the contours, it's a bit like Stella's, it's just like these kinds of stones and stuff like that which have,
you know, information on them. And you can see, like, I'm giving you one example. But he gives like three or four examples himself, the Kuduro of Nebuchadnezzar, as I say his name right. In the book conyza. I will see the dating is afterwards, but it's to show a number of academics the point that in fact, you'll find this astral triad throughout the entire area, the North, the east, the south. So this was like one of the main ways to worship the sun, the moon, and Venus. These are the three things is worship. Now the Quran talks about shrimps, karma kecap, literally, sun move, but this was not the Bible. So where did this information come from? It's very interesting and powerful argument.
It's not in the Bible. Someone can argue, well, it's might not in the Bible. What about if you look at the book of Joshua, chapter 24, verse number two? Well, if you look at the book, which is the closest reference you'll ever find in the Bible, it only mentions vaguely other gods that the worship other gods, but doesn't tell you what are the gods.
And if you look at the Talmud,
it does mention some of these things, but not in the context of there's no the astral tribe, or three of them in that way. It's not mentioned anywhere. And we now have, like, you know, ways to verify that through using AI and all that kind of thing, which we've tried and used and stuff like that. So I was a career has done a fantastic job of making this argument. Because although the scanty archaeological evidence for the existence of Abraham, the context is captured in the Quran in a way that couldn't have been done otherwise, because actually, this language was the dead language. And the archaeological finds were not there. So now, what do we expect? We have the Prophet Muhammad
wa salam we already explained,
discussing the intricacies of what's going on.
In Egypt in the Hitchcock's dynasty, discussing the intricacies of what's going on ancient Babylon, you know, the Old Babylonian kingdom discuss discussing the intricacies of what leads to worship in the Old Babylonian discussing the intricacies the fact that fight for follow from
Egyptian people used to worship other gods is not even mentioned the Bible.
etc, Musa lifts out whether a koala ticket or answers, are you leaving
Moses to wreak havoc on the earth and he leaves you.
At other Musa will call you to do for the way other aquatica and his people and then they will leave you and your goods so that they used to the Egyptians used to worship other gods as well.
That Pharaoh said Allah will come and Allah I'm your Lord, all of this stuff is not in the Bible, by the way. So how could it be that this stuff is not the Bible, the very like any detailed stuff, which is not in the Bible, about the history of the ancient peoples, which it took years and years for us to find this out, is detailed in the Quran in very concise phraseology.
And all the sources are there.
And you can read more how he done it.
He doesn't in the in this I've sent the the article there. And I don't know if he put this in the book. Yeah, there's an article there but he slammed only once he flushed out Viagra.
Having said this
was so we spoke about Abraham we spoke about the connection of Abraham and Ishmael hammers Allah we spoke about the zamzam we spoke about Abraham's discussion of Abraham some discussion around the Quran, hijab, all of this kind of stuff. Now there's more to be said, because right now,
we know that we before we speak about the seed of the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam we use what the what the writers of the CLS have actually usually done is to give us like a brief background of what happened before his birth. So for example, if you read even a sham, or even as Harco, or even Hashem, or even as hack through ammunition,
they mentioned certain things, and I'll tell you who they are, in brief, and I'll tell you what evidence we have of their existence, because I've done the research. So who the figures are, who they mentioned, the Sierra books, and then what evidence we have of their actual existence in terms of the way that these guys understand it through the historical method or through archaeological data, whatever movie
effect so we said the ones that process on when was when When did he? Was he born? 575 70. Right. And he dies? He says, Yeah, like 575 71 times that kind of area. Okay.
So
remember that date?
Just like in the beginning, I told you to remember the death date. Now remember the birth date, right?
And
before that, we had different kingdoms in around the area around the Arabian area around what is presently Ethiopia and Eritrea, was then called Abyssinia, you have different kingdoms. One of the kingdoms is called the hammerite. Kingdom. Okay. And there was an individual called Al Khatib.
A Tibetan Asad. Okay, and who was a Jewish convert to Judaism? Okay, he ranged from 110 to 525. BCE, oh, sorry, not he rented the kingdom with a cannon. No way. But the kingdom was there for that time, from 110 to 525 BC. And he was one of the people that reigns in that time.
We have some evidence of his existence. Okay.
For example, but I haven't looked at the primary source evidences in depth in this one. But I looked at some of the secondary source evidence. There's a book of history of school, the book of history of the Jews from the Roman Empire, to the medieval period by Simon DUBNER in 1968. And he discussed it and there's something called C S. Ai, the corpus of South Arabian inscriptions. The corpus is basically this, you can go online to find it, because it's blown up recently nachal shet, literally, the inscriptions that are put on the, you know, especially in Saudi Arabia, and stuff like that, digitize a lot of them and stuff like that.
And a lot of the descriptions actually, do you have inscriptions of another individual? For example, this one keeps coming up in the Sierra called don't know, Wes, I'm not sure if you've heard of him or seen him. But he's, he's also a Jewish king, okay. His actual name is the use of and he reigned in that period from 517 to 527. AD, and he was of the hammer dynasty. So we're looking at the individuals that reigned before how solemn was alive, just to give you a bit of a taste of what's going on there. And there are inscriptions of him. So I looked at some of the Sordin some of the inscriptions of his existence, written in different
languages, not
not Arabic, obviously, at this time, it wasn't Arabic, I think it was
have to look at what language they were using the inscription. But what's really interesting is of course, we've heard the story of the elephant.
Okay? And this is usually where a lot of the Sierra books start. Some of them start here, like really were, because that was when the Prophet son was born. According to the majority opinion, though we call it animal Philo, when he was born, that you have the elephant. So the question is this Abraham that we keep hearing of? Is there any existence? Is there any thing to prove that he existed?
The answer question is yes.
So this is what I've been able to pick up from, give you a secondary source and that will go into more detail. Abraham, I'm gonna read this from Britannica, okay, as a secondary source, and then I'm going to more primary source. Abraham also spelled Abraham Flores sixth century AD, Ethiopian Christian, destroyed, he wasn't actually the king at the time. He was just in charge of one particular area.
By the way, Alberta was viscerally to the Principality of Sabah
shouldn't be
is a sub in Yemen, for the Christian emperors of Ethiopia, as the others Christian himself. He is said to have built a great job. They say he has said because it's actually this. A lot of it is based on Islamic tradition. He is set to build a great church. Yeah.
That's an art. It's an art as you know, is in Yemen. Yeah.
To have repaired
the principal irrigation dam at the Serbian capital, I think is madlib. I'm not sure okay. So, there is he was it first of all, there was used at the time of Caleb of Axiom. So that was the major king of that particular thing. He was a viceroy to that.
And this is, you know, a coin depicting that particular King, and with some
resources of his existence as well. Now, he was part of what he called the X axon empire. Okay, so once again from the National Geographic this I'm going to read this out to you the accent had become Christianized in the fourth century see, and became the first sub Saharan African state to embrace a new synthetic religion. A figure named from anteus is given credit for spreading the gospel into Ethiopia from NCS came from the phone a Syrian city of Tyre, finishing sorry, I should be finishing city of Tyre present day Lebanon. He became an advisor to the court of Aksum and a tutor to the Crown Prince. As Anna. After assuming the throne, as Anna proclaim presented, the state religion is
unclear whether the policy decision was put by the kingdom's diplomatic and trade relations with Rome, since over 100 years before Roman traders had already brought knowledge to the Christian religion. So that's how Christianity basically spread to East Africa. Yeah. Okay. So he's part of this. The kingdom's power had eroded. So they actually have a very longer kind of article on this, but I just kind of taken the main points for our purposes, things. The kingdom's power had eroded entirely by the eighth century. One reason for this decline was the migration of nomadic badger pupils into the area might be butchering the pronunciation of the Badger or badger. I don't know
what what I'm saying. The Independent herding activities, threatened accident, accidents, territorial dominance, accidents lost their hold on southern Arabia and Persian subsequently conquered Yemen, around 578.
So what we're saying here, what was that was five seven j
is how many is authored processes birth, they say about six years right?
The decisive blow was the ascendance of the Arab Muslims, who gave the region's dominant power in the seventh century and assumed naval control of the Red Sea. The loss of the mercantile revenue undermined capacity of x, x and nobility to hold an expanded state altogether. Environmental factors, most notably the degradation of degradation of soils from overuse and the end, the decline in the abundance of rainfall created additional pressures. Now, the story of the field itself so that's a bit of a context of who is Abraha he's from this excellent empire and he is he wasn't the king at that time. But he was one of the Vice Lords of the kings and we have some evidence of that
and there is evidence of his existence and they speak about him in factual terms in almost all secondary source materials. But what about the story of the elephant because obviously this is a very important story. In the Sierra it has a hole a and a surah in the Quran, and Tara cave a fact that a book a bit as horrible feel image, okay, don't be feet of Lin wa Salaam Alaikum Tyrone Embleton me and we had just messages which I'm passing my code that chapter 105 of the Quran. Have you not seen what your Lord has done with the people of the elephant? Did he not render their plots in complete deviance? And he sent with them you know, pylon or flying creatures, birds with pelting
things
for dhankar So he left them like, you know, eaten up grass like they were destroyed by it.
The story is just to summarize a story in the Sierra literature, although a lot of it is weak. Ironically, ironically, the actual narration of it is actually weak. A lot of it isn't though because most of if not all of the Mufasa rune. They do link this story with
that particular Hadith that say that there was basically Abraham.
He made this church, as you know, and he wanted it to compete with the Kava. He wanted the Arabians.
I'm skipping a lot here, by the way, but he wanted the Arabians not to do circumambulation or pilgrimage to the Kaaba, they want him to, they wanted them, he wanted them to come to his church. So he assembled an army and he basically went there. And the mortality was that at the time was the granddad of the Prophet Muhammad Salam. And he, effectively there was a whole discussion with him. But he let him go, and then they it was the elephant wouldn't go any further. Okay. And then basically, he was the pelting things destroyed the elephants. And they retreated. And this happened at the time of the process of birth. So it's after this whole incident took place, the process and
it was born.
Okay. So that's what happened. Now.
We do have inscriptions of this. So if you look at the next slide, as you can see, very interesting, you have a description of the elephant. I mean,
Adam, see, because what it was, is that the the
second story, historians were doubting the story, because one of the only piece of evidence that you find of this is in the Islamic tradition accounts. So they're saying this story, we don't know all that.
Now, they did actually start finding inscriptions. And as you can see, in this picture, there's drawings of the elephant, you know, that all these elements coming in, and you know what I mean? So that is a serious piece of evidence, which some scholars have come and said, actually, this is evidence of, even from their perspective, this happened, the situation this did actually take place. Now, it makes it very interesting here, because, as you will see, some of the scholars of Islam
use this, okay. To, to argue for the veracity of Islam, even to me included, and the data we included a lot of them. So along with that, and morality and morality, who wrote Camus will tiny, different person.
They use this to create arguments for the existence of for the truth of Islam, but come to that in a second. You got inscriptions. Yeah. And these are descriptions of the elephants and all those kinds of things. Okay. Why is that significant? Because why did that happen at the time when the President was born?
Even Taymiyah says the following. He says, Look,
he did that, to show it was like a sign to show
that Allah is going to protect this, this particular house, this particular place, and to facilitate worship in that place. In addition to that, I was thinking about this light, and this is something you can add to this point.
Some people might not like I'm about to say, but I'll say anyway, the cabin is in Saudi Arabia, okay. It's one of the highest GDP countries in the world. Now, if the cabin was in a country, which it wasn't like this, hardwood might not even be possible.
Think of the following, right? If Imagine if the camera was in, I'm not gonna say what country because I'm gonna offend anybody, but let's just say a country with without the facilitation, to do what we just talked about in terms of Zamzam water, and that all these people come from 4 million people. And because you and even they struggled, I mean, Saudi Arabia struggled, they had all these kinds of things, people being mowed down, people dying, and all that kind of thing. But for the most part, it's a well oiled machine, they're doing a good job of it. And why is only one reason of addition to tourism, and it makes monetary sense, and, of course, all that kind of stuff and the big
C 2000. But there's another reason which is money.
And it just so happened that when that Subhanallah when the population increased rapidly, so to the the money for Saudi Arabia, if you look at the diet that Ibrahim makes in the Quran, he does actually make dua for the safety of that particular area of the world
or that particular city at least
Abu Jamal has Amina you know make this this country or the city
protected so the fact that has been facilitated even to me is making an argument anyway know about South Korea because obviously it's way before when he's making the argument that yes, he's this is protected the fact that Allah protected that to your widow with the with the with the burden, what kind of stuff is it is like a sign to show that something was that Allah is going to protect this particular infrastructure so that people can use it afterwards. Why did they make the very similar argument? You will ask the question yes, one
important point but when we look at history obviously we've seen moments where the car has been destroyed a few decades centuries after the Prophet and even a Blackstone was stolen by a group. I'm not sure the exact details how would we know
understand what you're looking at if you look at it, like in general what's
happened? These are separate these are isolated incidents but in general there's been facilitation people have been going to Hajj
effectively almost every single year like you know, since the time of the Prophet Muhammad SAW Salah which is shocking it's a shocking reality actually.
Because like I said, there could have been situations that would have prevented that from happening.
And the way like if you read social hedge, for example, and see Abraham Abraham and how he makes die,
he says, You know, I need to recall the A about
yet tornare Jalan
what was infinity Bill had to carry gelam
this is what I call vomit in our meeting.
So I'm gonna call the Virgin genomic, like you think so basically, it says And Abraham Abraham, Ed infinity Bill hatch, you know, as infinity Bill hatch, which is that and make a then literally called the people to come to announce the Hajj will come. Yeah, as then from Ireland. Right. But then it's an announcement yet to the region. Region. Yeah, they're going to come as on their feet effectively, they will come on their feet. While I call it dominant. They'll come with every lien camel. To them unqualified genomic? Yeah, they will come from every How would you translate Fujinami? I don't know how they translate it.
They come from every like, for genomic
journey to get. Yeah, but there was a very specific I won't translate this wrong. unfed genomic, how they translate it.
Dominant
ask anyone, how was the transition? I was? Okay. But anyway, the point is, is that this is a manifestation of the art of Abraham.
Yes, thanks so much for the image, they will come to you on foot feet on every lien combo. They will come from every deep and distant White Mountain Highway to perform as you see they have they'll come from a deep distant highway and that's it. They needed a translation with this, this highway to perform Hajj. And here you have Abraham, whereas in finesse, he will hatch. They will come from everywhere. I imagine he's at a time even the Bible tells us that he was in a desert, a middle of nowhere, why they come from everywhere. Literally now people go for Hajj, everywhere. Hajj itself isn't evidence for their festivals. Think about it, they come from everywhere for to do perform
Hajj. So you see the argument that how could How could this happen? Yeah, let's see. Do you do this? Exactly. No. But then what I'm trying to say to you is that look at all the.of Abraham being manifested.
Do you know what I mean? Like the safety of that particular city effectively has been quite safe. I don't know if in the history of and I shouldn't be
stuck on logics. This is
we don't believe in I was gonna say but like Mike hasn't really been embroiled in that many wars like as as a city
or something.
Yeah, we know that. That was like a little skirmish that?
Yeah.
Yeah. But the point is compared with other regions of the world down, and this is in the Middle East. Yeah. And so it's, it's always been kind of protected. It's really been amazing, actually. SubhanAllah. If you think about, like Alexander the Great or all of the conquests, like colonials or the Persians, they never go south in the Arabian Peninsula. So they would usually just go to like Levant and Iraq, and then they will continue to India, or they go sideways, but they just never so hot there. So in the hospital, it was never so in hospitals. If you actually Google like Each civilization on the map, you can see where they stretched. But you see the point I'm making here
that even the placement of that particular place, and its safety, you know, and the connection with Hajj and stuff like that, all that can be said as well. Now, the whole thing is, before we continue the science of Inscriptions called ethnography, ethnography. This is the whole how do they date things is they look at the hut, they look at the particular
What do you call it? The the graphemes, they call them graphemes. They look at the graphemes. They look at how things are written. So when were they writing in this script? When was the script, the graphing, graphing Meetic script? And they said, when was it when the right like this one was the right like that? And they try and make estimations but obviously it's going to have its flaws. But bit like radiocarbon dating, you can't know for sure. So when someone says this, oh, that was they can only estimate but they cannot say for sure.
So that's another thing
thing which is actually narrated reliably is when did the question is when did it you know, in the Arabian Peninsula, monotheism become policies? Or when did it change? Because it was obviously monotheism at the time of Abraham.
Yes. So you want to elaborate on that? He copied this stuff like one idea, literally, yes, he returned back and he was somehow a leader of the community. And he ordered people to just have brought something new. And you can follow this, and everybody accepted most of the
revenue. Hi. Hi. And as mentioned, actually, it's Muslim. So this is authentic hadith. He is the founder of idle train. Yes, yes. Exactly. The and the Prophet Salam said, you know, I saw him with his intestines out in the hellfire, basically, because of which this person he led all these people astray. He led all these people astray. So there's a hadith on this individual. I'm gonna lie when he led people astray whether other sects in in that area that actually stuck to it and to strict monotheism, or did they all go astray? And
that was one of the one of fact there were people that were, in fact, let's do a little break, because I haven't done this for a long time. Right.
The question I'm going to put to the group is describe from what your own knowledge is, and because I know, mashallah, some of you have learned this stuff already here.
From what you understand that we can add to it. Yeah, your understanding of the state of affairs before the Prophet Muhammad, Salah Salem came and was sent. So what was the state of pre Islamic Arabia in terms of the religion in terms of some of the social issues, because we're going to talk about some of the Hadith, we're going to go through some of the Hadith. So before we do that, let's have a five minute break 510 minutes to the person next to you, and we will come back and return.
Okay, so I'm going to just quickly have a kind of a feedback session. So how was the time? What was the time of
the profits or before the time of the job at a time? What was the what was going on? Then? Socially?
tribal society? Okay. Yeah, we're discussing this. Mauna Kea, like the Romans or the Persians, they were their allegiances was based on tribe. And if you had a tribe, you'd be protected, for example, and you're part of a tribe. So that's essentially the societal structure of it. There wasn't a kind of uniform government justice was based on tribalism, really.
And levels of tribe. Yeah, some tribes were more honorable than others. Like I was saying to one of the brothers as well, like the leader, when ever people came to Mecca, he would provide water for them. And that will seem very honorable. And he was like the, the guy representing Mecca, representing his tribe. So that that was their kind of hospitality framework, and providing justice to each other based on that tribal system. Yeah, okay. And that, in fact, there's a lot of discussion about that, like, for example, you'll find the books of Sierra. And once again, I haven't checked the authenticity of any of this, but I just put as a caveat, that, for example, the Arab
before the time of the Prophet Muhammad Salam would put fire in there, like they would put fire outside their house. And the reason why is if, if there's anyone who's like wandering the city in us, like,
that wants to eat food, then it's like you're hosting the stranger. This was a practice that these two used to do. Hospitality was a massive, massive, massive thing. generosity and hospitality is massive, massive thing in terms of the tribal structures, pre Islamic Arabia, even. I want to add to what the brother said, also, like, when you go back 1000 years before Islam came,
there was no interest
to the place like no, no outside interest was there for Arabia. As soon as the Prophet SAW Selim came, then interest started to rise for that place. And also, you know, the tribal leaders, they couldn't really implement punishment on people, because that was seen as like, everyone was like their own individual, and they can make their own decision. So as a result, there was a lot of civil war that took place between the tribe, tribal war and civil war within the tribe within the tribes, because when something happened between two people, the leader can't come and say, Okay, this is your punishment, this is your punishment. Now, he will only act as a referee to say, you know, what,
this is what I think and let them sort it out between themselves. So that caused a lot of havoc. And this this, like the tribe wasn't used to getting controlled. So
there is a book written by Ross Rogers, who's like a military, I don't know advisor in America, and he's talking about the state of the Prophet Muhammad, Salah Salem. Potentially We'll bring him up because it's interesting to get these outside perspective sometimes, but he referred to the Almighty
Islamia as like a supertype and do you notice there is an argument in the existence or not the existence of the truth of Islam just in this point
so in the Quran it states in chapter eight right? Well LF have been equilibrium, lo and *a Teva fill out, the German man left the bay Nickleby him we're lacking the love. We're lacking Allahu Allah Baynham in the horizon Hakeem that you were able to bring the tribes together and bring their hearts together. If you had spent all that was in the dunya, and the earth to try and bring these tribes together, you would not have been able to try to bring them together. But Allah is the one who brought them together. And He is the Almighty. Only the fact that we know this anyway, when you have a deeply tribal society, okay, that
they have fun. Or if you like self pride due to the tribe, it's very, very difficult to get the cooperation to happen between those two.
So even with the admission of some of these kinds of like, non Muslims to say, the super tribe that was created, or the the OMA islamiya, that was serious achievement in terms of socio economic when the process item came to me, but that's something to think about. And we'll expand this point in more detail. And when the Sierra continues, but the point is before there was a deeply tribal society, yes, I just want to say one more thing, to be honest. It's actually funny. I read in a book that these pre aerobic
as in
people before Islam, eras before Islam, they didn't even have competent team competitions. As in like, for example, now there's football, bass played in a team against another team, they would not even participate in team games. That's how how how individualists that they work
was very good points that mashallah like your contributions. Any other contributions before you continue? And if you
weren't part of policies, for example, they didn't fail. He said that he, he believed in the religion of Abraham. He was never a Judeo Christian, excellent, brilliant prophesies, and I'm sad about him that he will be resurrected on his own his own OMA because he did have a full Islam. Excellent and this is these group of people are called the HANA fat. The people who Hanif basically means upright linguistically by means of followers like of Abraham
because things will come through this a lot but there's a lot of things which pre Islamic Arabia had and this another narrative right pre Islamic Arabia had which continued in Islam
there's a lot of practices and the Orientis will say what all the origins say whether
the okay the five
men I think many of them is from pre show Islam. So what do you think non Muslims would say what Orientals will say about this or that oh, they say they don't believe Prophet Muhammad wa Salam is a true prophet so they say you have all these pre Islamic things in place
he didn't he done what the prophet done what
is a pagan tribes you made a new religion based on pagan rituals by base base how and because they were in the earlier days, they all did to off so he borrowed it from them, they stole it, he copied it, he just incorporated it. Yeah. How could it be from God? You know, and it was during the pre Islamic Arabia What do you think the response will be based on what we just said today? What if they took it from Abraham when he was there and they just continue with it and then just added false gods? Yeah, sure. So So we believe what's our mission? Continue of mission of Ibrahim Ali salaam because we believe it's a one mission Islam is a one we not something invented by. So we're good. So
like, if we were to make this argument stronger, based on the information that we've just received today?
Our narrative is that Abraham came with monotheism. Okay. Our argument is that, you know, Abraham was the original patriarch of that region, let's say Ishmael was the father of the Arabs if you want he the prophet has Salam is directly connected to it's mine, Ishmael. Okay, so is it so hard to believe that especially when it comes to Hajj pilgrimage, that some of the practices are going to be the same?
Because Do we believe that from Assam was the first one the pilgrimage who do we believe I'm talking with before that
Yeah.
In your fiber, Raheem, Hawaiian and Bertie belt cover? Smile Yeah, exactly. So the Quran says very clearly that we are fiber or hemo however the middle Beatty was my right so when Abraham
raised the pillars of the beat, which is the cat cat band is made
by Ben at a couple min. We, Allah accept from us acceptable from us.
Hajj, so they were doing the Hajj. So much so Allah commanded Abraham, whereas in Shin se will Hajj to carry jalla wa ala kulli dominantly taka bin Khalifa genomic. So the point is is over that announced to the people that of Hajj they'll come from on their feet. And so you'll find, of course, continuities in pre Islamic Arabia with
the Prophet Muhammad Salah Salah
where they where they make the argument they try to embellish the argument. And you may have heard this, they say things like well actually all of these biblical narratives the Old Testament, the Quran, Allah, they all go back to Gilgamesh.
I'm not sure we found this particular argument is all because you've got the great flood and Gilgamesh Yeah, you've got you've got this and you've got that all of that is seeping through to the Old Testament and these mythologies are stolen. And all these characters are legends. So how would you
even represent the hieroglyphics? Some of that you speak to this Kemet kinetics, you know, we had them in the park, they will say that the figure of Musa and this figure and this or that, okay, so written in our history, long, long time ago. And to be honest, I'm not sure what I'm hinting at here. But some people will say that everything goes back to the old they'll talk about I'm not sure if you've heard Gilgamesh. And when when is that? When is that BCE? Well, no, it's very long. It's very long time.
Very long, but I'm saying that they they're making the point that everything is mythological. So how would you respond to that? thing is we say the source is one. So if the source is one, okay, then it's very simple. For example, the story these narratives, he all actually points it makes it sound like it makes our religion more true because we are saying that Islam didn't come 1400 years ago, it's been there from since Adam Ali Salaam. So all the stories match up, he actually string because I will put in more, because we believe that Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Abraham, I mean, Noah, notary Salem only than the narratives and the stories are very common and one, so it goes back to, okay,
that's good. That's why it's important to make what's the evidence you'll use?
The scriptures that you said, which talk about these things, like, for example, whenever we look at the scriptures, like even when it comes to the oneness of God, you look at the Bhagavad Gita, but even there's some sort of like, you know, you see, it's so not the absolute essence of Tawheed. But even in like the Hindu scriptures, you look it says, like, if I'm not mistaken as I can, I can sense that there is no image of God, etc. So you see, these similarities pop up in the scriptures. So is it a coincidence? That's a good point about that's what I usually if they say that these things are myths and legends, what's going to be the response? I mean, we've kind of covered for example,
Gilgamesh, many past civilizations on Easter right here history, like an actual event, they used to add some ethology, so they had fun with it. For example, the Greeks did that. Even Mark when he wrote his story in the gospels, he had a lot of mythology, and he got from mythicism. And so just because there's mythology doesn't mean it didn't happen. For example, the Great Flood many different civilizations said there was a flood, so it doesn't just connect with Gilgamesh. Okay, that's a good that is not bad. It's not bad answer. But I want you to be more specific based on what we've gone through the slides today. So if for example says that someone says that these stories are
mythological stories, yeah, the, the, the all of all of the stories that you'll find in the Quran and the Old Testament, these are myths. We have archaeological evidence,
scientific evidence. So now you've made the point. So give me some give me some archaeological evidence I'm being antagonistic now So
mostly, but the statue or the stone engraving with the freestyles we were discussing how the Quran Yeah, we talk about Ibrahim alayhi salam and worshipping the moon then the that's what that's what Abraham, Abraham Yeah. What about David? Acting to worship? Yeah, acting to worship. What about David?
Tell Basti lay the word Israel Okay, which is a biblical term, obviously, Jacob. That's what it is.
Is it just in one place was in many different places? Is that many different rocks that have that name on it? That word on it?
There are many different rocks that have
many different
Okay, well, what about the what? Give me one in the Egyptian period?
We'll come to that a second. But what about the Egyptian period? We will discuss about the Pharaoh there's an engraving that says the heavens will weep for you. And then yeah, well, that's not specific. That's not specific with specific names and phrases. So that's what this is the level of detail you need to get if you want to make the point clear talking about like, what about the historical miracle of Pharaoh and King? We can get to that, but I'm just talking about names. I'm saying no, I'm saying this stealer here. We'll come to that in a second as well. But what did we cover today? What do you release a second. So Ramses is his son?
Yeah, because of a Miranda? Yeah, beautiful. So his delay mentioned the children of Israel and that they were expelled and all that kind of on the 13th line.
You see what I'm saying? So okay, this the sum is commensurate. The biblical narrative. The Quranic narrative is commensurate with extra biblical information of an archaeological kind.
And that yes, and then you've got so yeah, great. So on that point, actually, sorry, go ahead. The study of hearts are in excellent evidence to corroborate the Islamic story. So now we're using what you call triangulation corroborative method because this is how to prove things you don't prove things with them because there'll be second you prove things with other things or using this method to show you this thing and this thing is that you go on to say
I've put a hadith in the
group can who wants to volunteer to read it?
Yeah, because I want you we want to get the narrative right
it's a bit of a long one actually.
We can we can we can one paragraph each so three people can do
okay, it's really been on this by the way it's not as long as you think
it because it's gotten reported that Ibrahim Ali said
what his wife and her son is made, and he said
while she was sucking him to a place near the caliber under a tree on the spot of zamzam at the highest place in the mosque in those days there was no human being in Mecca nor were there any water so he made them say over the place near them a leather bag containing some dates and a smooth skin waters a small water skin containing some water and set out home with so this is in cooperation with what so far the water skin whether we read that again. Genesis Okay, so the both of them agree on this. Okay, keep going.
followed him saying, oh, Ibrahim, where are you going? Leaving us in the valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything to enjoy? She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him has Allah commanded you to do so? He said yes, she said then he will not neglect Nicholas's point here. Amina our duty as a feminist liberal Muslim. She She very derogatorily pejoratively referred to Abraham RSM as a deadbeat father. Why because of this story, yeah. Now, this, excommunicate her or whatever, like, you know, from the religion of Islam, but despite that from being the case, but that's an aside.
Yeah, maybe she's drunk when she said, I don't know.
And there's something else here, which is the following.
What did we read? In suit, Ibrahim, which shows his concern, Abraham, he had concern for his child, the future of their children know what, what did he say was the dot that he made to Allah in the Scantron. In theory, it wasn't right in the vertical Mahara. Rob Benelli up masala, fragile, Ada 10 minutes.
So he's saying, Oh Allah, I've done this great thing. And this is a kind of telestial effect. If you think about it, tell us so with the solid hat, I've done this great thing, January, and I've done this great thing, which is I've put my kids and my wife in the desert. I'm using this to show you how committed I am to your cause, therefore, make them safe, make the people
who made the thumb on it and how long it's gonna make, give them fruits, give them whatever, so that they can be
grateful.
So he was concerned, it wasn't like this psychotic behavior that has been presented by these New Age, frauds that poses academics and attacks some of the characters of the of the Quran do not I mean, the big characters and they can they think they can still maintain a membership in Islam. This is absolutely nonsense. But this is just on this point, because someone may think this so how could the man alley hustler? How can Abraham leave? You know, his children? Are we know it wasn't the same analysis, even in the era of in Miami? In the bow cat even worse, to be honest. I saw in the Yeah, I mean, Abraham as we know, as especially the Bible as well. I saw in my dream that I was going to
slaughter a Fender mare. That's our classes. So what shall I do? Call us attention to me in sha Allah sobre
Fatima tomorrow. So you'll find me patient do what you've been commanded to do.
Anyway, the point is, you're sorry, sorry, sorry. Go ahead. Continue. She asked him has a lock on what do you used to do? So he said yes. And this is exactly what who are two. It's my last that to Abraham.
No, nobody in the Quran says
would you call it tragedy in shot loss?
Yeah, so so it's the same kind
Have attitude is like a were submissive. The wife was submissive. The son was admitted this is a seriously submissive family. Look, they're in the middle of a desert
goalkeeper and she said, then he will not neglect us. She returned while Ibrahim proceeded onwards, having reached the third year where they could not see him. He faced he faced Kaaba raised his both hands and supplicated Oh, our I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncooperative tivol. cultivatable uncle to VATable Valley by your sacred house the combat Mecca in order
that they may perform. Sada so fill some hearts among men of love towards them and know Allah provide them with fruit so that they may give thanks that's in the Quran. That's the verse I just mentioned. Yeah. Yeah, keep going. So next person who's good, thanks for that. Yeah, go ahead, bro.
Smiles mother went on suckling smile, and drinking from the water which she had. When the water in the water skin had all been used that she became thirsty and her child also become thirsty, became thirsty. She started looking at smile, tossing in a journey, agony, agony. She lived him for she could not endure looking at him and found that the mountain of a sofa was the nearest mountain to her on that land.
She stood on it and started looking at the Wali keenly so that she might see somebody but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from a sufferer. And when she reached the valley, she tucked up her Robin run in the valley like a person in distress and trouble till she crossed the valley. And she read reached Alma Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that running between a sufferer and Omar was seven times it now buzz further related. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, this is the source of the tradition of the sigh, sigh
ie the going of people between the two mountains. When she reached a Marwa, for the last time, she heard the voice and she exclaimed
it's silence silencing herself. And listen attentively. She had the voice again and said, Oh, who whoever you may be, you have made me hear your voice. Have you? Any Sacher from for me?
And behold, she saw an angel
at the place of zamzam digging the earth with his heel or with his wing 10 water flood, flood out flood out from the place, she started to making something like off of bass in around it, using using her hand, hands in the way and began to fill her water skin with water with her hands, and water was flown out until she had scoped some of it. The Prophet salallahu Alaihe Salam let's get someone else thank you for so much because who's going bro? The Prophet saw that I will lay your Salam further said May Allah bestow mercy on Ismail's mother had she led the zamzam flow without trying to control it, or had she not scooped in that water, while filling her water skin. zamzam would have been a
stream flowing on the surface of the earth. And by the way, that's not just not geologically impossible. Like, if you if you have a lot of flowing happening from the time it can actually become that has happened before like in the in the world. If you research wells becoming streams and stuff like that, it's actually quite common, basically where
the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam further added, then she drank water and circled her child. The angel said to her, Do not be afraid of being neglected. For this is the site on which the house of Allah will be built by this boy and his father. And Allah will never, never let neglected his people. The House of Allah. The Kaaba, at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they they flowed to it's right and left. She continued living in that way till some people from the tribe of Durham passed by her and her child, as they will
Coming from through the way of God that that in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had a habit of flying around water and not leaving it, so they knew the science these guys, children, they knew that okay, if there's birds here, there must be water they get that. Usually birth or turning around water if there is any do you see them turning? There is a water because they're coming down to drink. That was a sign to feel that there is someone
accepted? Yes, yes. Allah subhanaw taala brought Durham there.
Keep going. They said, this bird must be flying over water. Though we, though we know that there is no water in this valley. They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water and returned to inform them of the water. So they all came towards the water. The Prophet, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam added is my child's mother was sitting near the water. They asked her Do you allow us to stay with you? She replied, Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water. Notice how she is being depicted here. Like she's negotiating. She's clever. Yeah. Look how the Bible depicts her. Some second rate, you know person God says Don't listen to them.
You know what I mean? Here you
go. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam further said, Ismail's mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love the company of the people. So they settled there. And later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them. The child, ie Ismail grew up and learned Arabic from them. His virtues, caused them to love him, caused them to love and admire him as they as he grew up, and when he and when he reached the age of puberty, they gave him one of their daughters in marriage. After Israel's mother had died. Ibrahim came after Ismail's marriage came after Ismail's marriage in order to see his family that he had left before. But he did not find
Ismael there. When he asked if my heels wife about him, she replied, He has gone in search of our livelihood. Then he asked her about their way of living and their condition. And she replied, complaining to him. We are living in hardship, misery and destitution. He said, When your husband returned, convey my salutations to him and tell him to change the threshold of the door of his house. When a smile came, he seemed to have perceived something unusual, he asked his wife, did anyone visits you? She replied, Yes, an older man of such and such description came and asked me about you. And I informed him about you and I informed him, and he asked about our state of living,
and I told him that we were living in hardship and poverty there upon Ismail said, did he advise you anything? She replied, Yes. He told me to convey his Salutations to you and to change the threshold of your door, is my email said that was my father. And he has ordered me to divorce you go back.
Go back to your family.
So it's my yield divorced and married another woman from amongst them. So why do you think you've done that? Because he asked her how she was doing. She complained that she was complaining would show it which shows you what the that kind of a woman is not really a woman that you want to
notice. No, she is a woman that is, you know,
family. She's not fitting. Yes, they were all submissive but she was complaining from hardship. Yes, such hardship will come forward and she couldn't bear it.
etc. So contextually, it's one is that there is a messenger coming in his generation type of good point.
Then Ibrahim stayed away from them for a period as long as Allah wished nowhere, he I think he was one line before so it's male divorced her and married another woman from amongst them amongst your home. Then Ibrahim stayed away from them for a period as long as Allah wished and called on then on them again, but did not find a smile. So he came to Ismail's wife and asked her about him. She said, he has gone in search of our livelihood. Ibrahim asked her about their sustenance and living. How are you getting on? She replied, We are prosperous and well off. I SubhanAllah. Did anything change? Only the woman?
Seriously?
Woman? Yes, keep going. Then she praised Allah, the Exalted. Ibrahim asked what kind of food do you eat? She said meat. He said, What do you drink? She said water. He said, Oh Allah bless their meat and water. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam added at that time they did not have
grain and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allah to bless it, then that makes sense. For that particular
we'll call it landscape because the grain wouldn't have been available there.
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam further said, if somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected because these these things do not suit him unless he lives in Mecca. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam added, then Ibrahim said to Ismail's wife, when your husband comes, give my regards to him and tell him that he should keep from the threshold of his door. When Ismail came back, he asked his wife, did anyone call on you? She replied, Yes, a good looking old man, Kenya, she described her
as completely different. She's optimistic the other person has that kind of negative. You don't want that in your life. Now of course. Yeah. So this is authentic. This story of change your dharma kind of
girl.
She prays, yes, a good came to me. She praised him and added he asked about you, and I informed him and he asked about our livelihood. And I told him that we were in good condition. Ismail asked her. Did he give you a piece of advice? She said, Yes, he told me to convey his regards to you, and audit that you should keep firm the threshold of your door. On that Ismail said, he was my father, and you are the threshold of the door. He has ordered me to keep you with me. Then Ibrahim stayed away from them for a period as long as Allah wished and called on them. Afterwards, he saw a smile under a tree near zamzam sharpening his arrows, when which shows you that there was potential conflict,
otherwise.
When he saw Ibrahim, he rose up to welcome him and they greeted each other as a father does with his son, or a son does with his father. Ibrahim said Oh, it's my Allah has given me an order. Ismail said, Do what your Rob has commanded you to do. Ibrahim asked, Will you help me? Ismail said, I will help you. Ibrahim said Allah has ordered me to build a house here, pointing to a hillock higher than this land surrounding it. The messenger of allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam added, then they raised the foundations of the house, ie the Kaaba.
Ismail brought the stones and Ibrahim was building the house. When the walls became high. Ismail brought stone and placed it for Ibrahim, who stood over it and carried on building the house. While Ismail was handing over the stones to him. Both of them prayed. Oh, our rub, except this service from us. Verily, you are the All here and the all Noah. Beautiful Korea. So that is in Bihari. And the reason why I brought that is because I think it's the longest narration I was able to find, actually the longest one, which is here, and discusses on narrative, the pre Islamic narrative, Abraham is mine, all of that kind of thing. Any questions on that?
The reason why I put that there? Okay, so let me just quickly go back to the slides.
You know, the narrative here is,
after Julian came about, I mean, most of the Sierra books, they say that, you know,
you had Jose and Canada, okay, they were fighting each other. And then the disposition of Jordan, sorry, they fought, they fought Jordan, this group that we just mentioned. So these Hosanna, Canada kicked out of your home.
And then we'll save and collapse. I'm not sure if you've heard of this figure. He's actually one of the people in the nest hub of the Prophet Mohammed Salah Salem. He took over Mecca, and he was one of the leaders that these are some of the things that I mentioned, but I couldn't find many, many, you know,
so he had these about these figures. To be honest with you. There was even like, the brother was asking
that
you what he was asking about the story about Abdullah?
Where I'm not sure if you've seen come across in the Sierra, that he had 10 sons and another isn't the 10th son, I'm going to kill you.
Yeah, that is actually I looked everywhere and frankly, so we can
Yes, we can
even invest sorry on that point. And he says, I just thought Abdulmutallab by the way 10 sons and on that there we said this way, it's a very weak Hadith try to look at it no strong Hadith actually on that story at all. Obviously, they're a bit more lenient with they're more lenient with these stories in the Sierra but just for the sake of argument now within the intellectual sailor so I'm trying to Yanni go through the Hadith and authenticity of them, you're gonna say, for this juror home, travel to mark I think there is another reason for them mentioned in Xero books that there was a flood, there was a dam broken
watered down, broken in Yemen. And the people travel to different parts and the yourhome came to MCC.
Okay, yeah.
Okay.
There are a you mentioned the HANA fat, we've covered them already. So we have a lot of these Hana fat there as well, that there are some Hadith talking about which I put them on the slides talking about, for example, what the society was like before.
And I'll just mention one of them because I think it will be probably sufficient.
One, one particular hadith of
who is it? Almost selama. Okay. When she went to El Habesha, when she when they went and migrated, as you know, you were going to cover to Abyssinia when there was the persecutions happening. She was asking, she was asked about what kind of life did you live before? And what kind of life did you live after. And she said that you had Malik, you know, kona Coleman and L. J. J. Leah nabooda. Last name we used to worship, the SNAM we used to worship the statues were when that could have meter or was carrying a sari, the dead meat, basically, like non slaughtered meat.
When that's info ash, and we used to be lewd in sexual action, we're not allowed ham, we used to not have ties of kinship to our family.
When the sea ill LGR used to be bad with our, with our neighbors, you know,
as she continues, in the end, she mentioned a lot of these kinds of things. And then when Islam came, it basically reversed all those things, but it shows you the things that she mentioned, when she's making power, effectively to the Melek. She was mentioning all the moral aspects of Islam, the basic moralities, like we believe in one God, we don't believe in the policies and we believe in keeping the family together, we believe in this and we don't believe in eating this kind of food, we live in this kind of food. That's what we believe in. She said, we were like this before. Now we're like this now. And there's something which is actually saying as well, which I read in the Book of
Abraham and Alia, and you'll be surprised there's a very small section about the pre Islamic area in his book become an ally. This
doesn't mean that everything he doesn't include, by the way, is not so here, like for example, this long Hadith and put it the one that just read now, but I'm saying For example, he mentioned the hadith of different kinds of marriages do have you ever come across this? There was different kinds of marriages that were the woman she slept with so many men?
Yeah,
there was some
he was mad, some of them would get like, an individual who might be elite, and get him to sleep with his wife so they can have kind of like a lineage. Yeah. So there was like five or 10 different types of marriage. Yeah, there was there was one that they they called impregnated like, Oh, I'm gonna do that. 10 And then they will come in front and she will pick you you're the one who's done it. Yeah, exactly. Yes.
So you gotta have this actually established that this was actually a thing, you know, but
and this is important.
Yeah, there's many types, as mentioned that hadith, like if you want to go for it, but then obviously Islam came in negated all of of that. So with that, we will conclude the first episode of sorry, the third episode of the Sierra
and Inshallah, if you have any questions, then you can put them in the comment section. And we'll see you next week with Santa Monica.