Fresh & Fit & – Red Pill, Christianity & Islam
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Channel: Mohammed Hijab
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AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of learning to pray differently during difficult situations and the need for legal protections and institutions to prevent hate speech. They also discuss the history of hate speech and the importance of finding hedonistic individuals and finding a woman who is not sex-dependent and not heavy on sex. They stress the need for boundaries and a conversational and physical altercation to avoid embarrassment, and emphasize the importance of finding a partner who is not clinging on rules and shows emotional investment in principles. They end with a promise to pray for others and encourage viewers to donate to the church.AI Generated Transcript ©
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Welcome to the podcast, Mohammed Hijab.
Thank you very much for having me, my
friend. How are you doing? You alright? How
are you, man? I'm good. I'm good.
Welcome.
What I'm glad we're able to, to make
this happen, man.
So for the audience that might not I
mean, obviously, I'm very well aware of who
you are. You know, shout out to Sneeko
for linking us, by the way, and, you
know, creating that
contact.
Can you, you have a huge YouTube channel
yourself, huge following,
probably one of the most famous Islamic scholars
in the world. But for those that don't
know, can you please introduce yourself to the
people?
Well I mean look, as you mentioned, content
creator I would probably call myself in the
most neutral way.
I've been online for about 8 years now
producing all kinds of content
relating to, I would say, for example, like,
Islam, religion, politics,
society,
philosophy.
Obviously, I've had like lots of,
I've had lots of debates which are high
profile debates recently. I had one with Piers
Morgan
which
went viral which went mega viral right? So
that's really the reason why,
I've become quite notorious in the ends, brother.
Nice. Nice. And I did actually see that
debate, the one with Rabbi Schmuli. Right? There
was 2. The the the initial one I
had with Piers Morgan
accumulated, I think, probably about 8 and a
half 1000000 views.
Yeah. And then the one with Schmolly about
I don't know like 5,000,000 or something but
it was
a heated debate and Piers Morgan referred to
it as the most combative debate in TV
history.
A lot of people when they watch that
debate consider it to be a very controversial
debate. So yeah, I mean, there's been a
lot of high profile moments and interesting,
times. You know what I
mean? Yeah. So, can you take us through
your evolution of how you got here? Obviously,
you're very respected in the in the space
and in the religious world. How did you
get to this point?
What's your background like?
I've been,
I've been going to university for a very
long time,
and, and at the same time, I've been
doing Islamic
Islamic studies.
So because I've been doing like multiple degrees
over the span of maybe about 11, 12
years now,
I found an outlet and been able to
disseminate information and edify people,
which was YouTube actually. So
I found that YouTube and
social media the internet in general
allows you to get through to people in
a way in a manner that classrooms and
you know lecture halls don't allow you to
do so. So it's
yeah for me its input and output. I've
been learning and I've been teaching. And so
I've been trying to edify the people and
also learning from from the people as well.
Like, you know, it's been a very transformative
experience for me in the last 9 years.
And I know you're pursuing,
your PhD,
when I was looking into some of your
stuff. The how how far away are you
from, from getting your doctorate?
I'm nearly done. I'm I'm just writing it
up and stuff like that. Hopefully,
I should be finished with that. As I
mentioned, like, I've kinda had enough of university
in my firm because I've been,
doing multiple degrees. I think I've done 4
now. I've done 4. My 1 year's time
I would have done 6.
So that's a lot of degrees and
I think I'm gonna retire at that point.
Yeah. I was gonna ask you,
please. Mhmm. I was gonna ask you,
I just want you to finish your thought
before I ask. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was
just I was just talking to my friends
about this the other day, and like, you
know, when you do that many examinations, yeah,
from when you're a kid,
And you do that many essays and you
do
that many, and you do that many like
dissertations or whatever it may be. Yeah. You
know, so you get tired. And so it's
been interdisciplinary for me. Like I've done a
history masters for example. I've done something in
like philosophy of religion.
I've done something in politics.
You know what I mean? I've done obviously
Islamic, I've done 2 Islamic studies degrees.
So there's lots of things I've been doing
along the way.
I found it interesting. I
find it enjoyable to do that kind of
thing. Do you know what I mean? But
now
at the tail end of my studies, I've
actually kind of had enough of it a
little bit. And
so, yeah, I feel like, the next step
for me is
probably focusing a little bit more about the
teaching side than the the learning side.
Gotcha. And I totally feel you there man
because just for me even going to college
and getting a bachelor's degree was a pain.
So I can only imagine pursuing multiple degrees,
pursuing a doctorate, like writing all those essays,
going to lectures, you know, writing dissertations like
you were mentioning earlier. It's very, it gets
very monotonous very quickly especially when you've been
in the education system for a while. But
let me ask you this. So you know
I've always,
at least in America, I don't know what
it's like in the UK, I'm assuming it's
fairly similar.
The education systems tends to be extremely
liberal.
The people in the education system tend to,
you know, swing left, be more woke so
to speak. How,
as a as a Muslim, right, which, you
know, naturally the religion is fairly conservative, how
were you able to kind of maneuver
in the education system, without dealing with headaches
or problems?
Like, it depends on what you I've been
to 4 universities. So, like, each university actually
each and every single one of them that
I went to in the United Kingdom have
been left leaning universities.
Yeah. Alright so
I'll be honest there's pros and cons from
like a Muslim traditional perspective of going to
a left leaning place.
The pro of it is that they are
quite I mean obviously you'll know this, they
are quite inclusive in that sense. So they
are afraid to
say or do things that are going to
offend you as a Muslim. They are aware
of your cultural sensitivities and so on. Obviously
the cons are well known. I mean I
think we are all aligned on some of
the cons in woke culture and leftism in
general.
And obviously being around that I don't like
to see and be around some of that
stuff. You know what I mean as an
individual it's not my taste.
It's not something I enjoy to see.
However I mean I think the pros
actually are more than the cons from my
angle at least because at least I can
get my job done. Yeah I've had issues
but you know at the end of the
day,
when you're doing your dissertations, when you're doing
your examinations in the United Kingdom they have
a degree of anonymity.
So like for example, when I was doing
A levels in this country, which is like
the equivalent of SATs in
America. I had done well in my A
levels because no one knew who I was.
Do You know what I mean? I scored
high grades because no one knew who I
was. When I got to university once again
there were anonymity things. But when here's the
thing
I have actually suffered in the United Kingdom
as a result of my views. For example
I used to work as a school teacher
at one point
and this was famous news in fact
one person that you interviewed which is Tommy
Robinson was part of the reason for this.
While I was working as a school teacher
and there was this kind of like they
were doing it they called it the freedom
march. And me and Ali Dawa came down
this was in 2018 its public record you
can probably check this if you wanted to.
Went and we wanted to challenge Tommy Robinson.
In fact Tommy Robinson
had actually
invited Ali to be one of the speakers
of the event.
So last minute we went there, last minute
they cancelled him being the speaker
and then
we got beaten up basically because there was
like you know, 100 of them. They rushed
us, which means they came in. They tried
to beat us up.
You know, if if it is online, if
I don't know if you've seen them. Physically?
Yeah. Beat beat us physically. Yeah. It wouldn't
be any other way. I mean, there was
there was maybe 30 assailants or something like
that. Do you know what I mean? So,
what happened is
after that
my school contract got cancelled.
So I couldn't work as a school teacher
anymore. So I realized that for me as
a Muslim that has these views in the
in the west and the United Kingdom,
it's
either censorship or it's you know it's not
just it's not just censorship from a social
media platform which is something what we're we're
we're you know afraid of. We're speaking to
Sneaker obviously he's been afraid he's been censored
and blocked off YouTube and stuff like that.
But it's also the fact that you get
fired from jobs.
You get you get managed out of things.
You you know you can't you can't be
free. You cannot
be free as a conservative if you're like
a traditionalist Muslim. So So these are some
of the things that I suffered like growing
up and stuff like that in this country.
And so I had to make my living
as a content creator.
It wasn't actually my
ambition. I wanted to
do some kind of work and at the
same time
do content creation.
But
it just so happened that everything forced me
towards this.
Because it's not just that I became unemployed
but I became it became unemployable
when I had certain views like for example
the views of LGBT.
For Muslims just like orthodox Jews and many
Christians
you know we don't believe that homosexuality is
an acceptable morality for example.
So having that view is unacceptable to the
majority of society in the west.
Especially in London. So
itis forced me into this corner I would
say.
Well
because
we've been told, especially in the UK,
there's no free speech at all. And from
the laws as well, whatever you say can
use against you, but work wise or for
example, even regular wise. Yeah. You guys you
guys are fairly restricted in in your ability
to to speak and convey your ideas.
Have you been to the United States before?
I'm assuming you probably have. I've been to
United States 4 times, been to Canada about
5 times. I would say look it's
on a legislative level, it's true that in
the United States of America
there's
a broader legal
allowances in terms of what you can say
because you don't have the equivalent of hate
speech legislation.
And things like defamation of character, libel and
stuff like that is much easier to prove
in the United Kingdom than it is in
the United States.
So I think you're right to say that
in the United States there's definitely more freedom
of speech
embedded both in constitutional law and institutions generally.
But you know when we speak about freedom
of speech it's not just
I think it's a mistake to think that
freedom of speech is something that it's only
a governmental reality. Like in other words so
long as there's laws
that allow or prohibit freedom of speech that
freedom of speech is present or absent in
a particular society.
Because the assumption there is that government is
in control of all things that happen
in a society. Well it's not the case.
You've got government that controls part of society
but also you've got for example institutions.
Elon Musk as an example is a very
you know influential person
and therefore his platform could be said to
be in many ways
more powerful than some governmental
institutions.
So if he decides to take people off
and on his platform
that's an implementation of freedom of speech or
lack thereof on a platform. Likewise YouTube.
And a lot of these companies are US
based companies.
So the point is that freedom of speech
is not it shouldn't just be thought of
as okay
if it's in law then it's present in
society. If it's not in law then it's
not present in society. Because you have all
these institutions and companies
And one could even make a democratic
argument against people like Elon Musk because he's
almost
yielding
the power of a representative
for example parliamentarian
or member of congress
without being voted in.
So people this is this is an issue
here because you have people that have power,
the power of politicians that have not been
voted in. So this is a threat to
democracy in many ways. Good point. But these
are complex discussions but the point is that
what I wanted to bring to the table
was that
the absence or the presence of freedom of
speech is not just contingent on constitutional law,
statute law or otherwise. It can also be
the institutions
and the players the main players of certain
institutions.
And so maybe there should be a discussion
about whether or not
certain main
players need to have some kind of a
check from the people if it's a democratic
mandate that people are looking for. So Elon
Musk or let's say whoever it is that
owns YouTube or Mark Zuckerberg or whoever it
may be.
You know as I say I reckon that
they have more influence than the majority of
politicians.
That's why they are not elected.
That's a good point. That I never really
thought about. That's pretty profound because if you
really think about it, these people control platforms
that
actually have the reach and the ability to
utilize this free speech that we talk about,
but what do they do? I mean, you
know, thank God for Elon Musk, right, he
brought a bunch of people back, he made
x. Obviously, x still has its terms and
conditions and everything else like that but it's
way more open than other platforms.
But you're right man, like Zuckerberg,
over at Facebook, Adam Mosseri over at Instagram,
all these guys, like, they have more power
than politicians do because they're able to regulate
speech on their platforms, which in turn obviously
is the vehicle from which you're gonna use
to to get your message out there. And
if they don't like what you gotta say
then, you know, yeah, unfortunately, you guys canceled.
Yeah. I mean, to be fair, it it
is your platform, so understandable. But when it
comes to free speech, you're right. There is
really the need for speech because There's not.
Governments they control everything. They control a small
portion, but these companies do control a lot.
Yeah. So yeah. That's a good point. That's
what it is, you know. So I had
a question, if you don't mind your job.
What do you think about
Christianity
and atheism
separately?
So we'll take one at a time. Obviously
like with Christianity as Muslims we believe
in Christ. We believe that Christ is the
Messiah. We believe that He's a prophet. We
believe
that He was sent by God. That we
believe that He was given wonders and miracles
and signs as it's mentioned in the book
of Acts in the
Bible. You know in the book he was
a man amongst men that was sent with
wonders and miracles and signs that God did
through him. That's a biblical verse. And that
biblical verse there in the book of acts
is everything we agree with.
That God did those things through him. So
we believe that you know Christ cured the
leper that he cured the blind
with God's permission.
But here's the difference between Islam and Christianity.
So whereas we would say as Muslims that
Christ was yes he was the Messiah, he
was one of the greatest people
who ever graced this earth.
We consider anybody who rejects Christ
not to be a Muslim. So this is
something which excommunicates you from the religion of
Islam. If someone attacks Christ we would consider
them to be a disbeliever
of Islam. You cannot be a Muslim and
reject or attack or besmirch
Jesus Christ. It's impossible.
Likewise you cannot be a Muslim
and attack
or abuse or besmirch Mary, son of
Mary which is the mother of Christ.
Those two figures I mentioned in the Quran.
In fact Allah mentions
that
Mary is the best woman on the earth.
That He has chosen you above all women
on the earth. Even more so than any
of the
prophets wives or any of the prophets daughters
or anybody
else. So Mary for us
is the most important woman to have ever
lived. There's a whole chapter
in the Quran chapter 19 which is the
chapter of Mary
which recounts some of the stories there relating
to Mary. So we don't believe God, Jesus
is God or the son of God. That's
the main difference.
We do not believe that Jesus can be
God. We do we do not believe that
it's conceivable, it's intelligible or that it's possible
that anybody with a date of birth is
God.
Let me say that again. We do not
believe that it's possible, that it's conceivable or
intelligible
that anybody with a date of birth is
God. Because God is the eternal.
Jesus
is not the eternal. At least the physical
manifestation of him. He was born of a
certain time, he had a mother.
You know, in the Quran it says
That him and his mother used to eat
food
which indicates limitation
Because if you're eating food how can you
be God?
So the point is is that we believe
that Jesus never even claimed to be God.
There is no good evidence
that Jesus claimed to be God. There's scanty
evidence
in the bible and the bible itself is
an un preserved text we consider to be.
So it's a corrupted text.
So our views on Christianity is as follows.
We agree
that
Christ and Mary are great figures but we
think that history has distorted
the image of Christ
and Mary and this idea of the trinity
was a historical development.
That what happened was
in the roman empire
when Constantine
adopted Christianity. Because what happened in the beginning
was Christianity
was Christians were a persecuted minority.
Then what happened was in the year 313
there was the edict of Milan
and
you know Constantine who was the then
emperor of the Roman Empire. He embraced Christianity.
He had a dream and so on and
he embraced Christianity. And then he spread Christianity
throughout the Roman empire. That's how Christianity spread.
When Christianity spread the Roman empire already had
mythologies that were adopted from ancient Greek mythologies
like Mythorism for example. You can check out
Mythorism online.
And most of these mythologies consisted of a
Godhead of some sorts.
Father, son, this kind of relationship.
And so it's easy to see that in
the Roman empire
how Christianity
evolved
due to the adoption, amalgamation
and synthesis
of these ideas which were otherwise
you could say pantheistic, polytheistic,
ideas,
mythological ideas
into
the canon of Christianity.
And that is even evidenced by some of
the what you call early church fathers. So
you have someone called Justin Martyr.
And in his works, he's discussing in primary
source materials. He's saying
that just as you guys believe in Jupiter
and the son, we also believe in the
father and the son. So in other words,
he's trying to
make close the proximity between pagan belief
and Christian belief. So it's clear that the
idea of the father and the son and
holy spirit was something which was adopted by
the Romans.
That's why the early Christians,
for example, the Ebionites
didn't believe in this.
And the idea of the trinity is clearly
developed
such that the Holy Spirit joined the party
as co equal, co eternal
only in the late 4th century according to
JND Kelly in his book Early Church Fathers.
So you can see that there was a
binitarianism
and then that transformed into a trinitarianism.
Now what we're saying is that this whole
idea of God this is not something God
sent. It's not something that you even find
in the old testament. Abraham was not didn't
believe in the trinity.
That's what the Quran states.
That Abraham wasn't a Jew or a Christian.
He believed he was submissive to one God.
That's what he was. He didn't believe Muhammad.
We don't say that he did. He was
the prophet of the time. So Abraham didn't
believe in the trinity. We don't believe there's
any evidence. It's scanty to know or zero
evidence.
So this is the point.
Islam separates itself from Christianity in so much
it says that
we don't believe that Jesus was God. It
cannot be possible or fathomable,
plausible,
intelligible,
conceivable
that a man who is limited is God
who is unlimited.
A man with a beginning,
is God which does not have a beginning
and so on. That's the main difference.
So just to respond, I get what you're
saying and,
I've family is a Christian Muslim as well,
so I do understand both sides of the
the religion on some
level. But let me ask you this. So
in that regard, if Jesus isn't God as
you say,
what about the bible? Should we follow the
bible as well as the word of God
or no?
You see that's a great question because here's
what we believe And it's not just we
the Muslims believe it. Yes we the Muslims
believe it but this is now
consensus in Christian scholarship.
The idea that the Bible itself now has
become corrupted
which means that there have been things that
have been put into it and things have
been taken out of it. Which is why
you have contradictory versions of the bible. We
have the new international version, the King James
version,
the revised standard version. All of them have
contradictory information.
They're not all the same because they depend
on different manuscripts.
And you can refer to the works of
Bruce Meska
who wrote a book on the on the
corruption of the bible. He was a Christian
himself.
So it's not actually
controversial in the 21st century to state that
the bible both the old
and new testaments
have been corrupted
thoroughly.
They have been ravaged with corruption.
They are deplete
with they they have corruption in every
chapter in fact.
And so we as muslims the relationship we
have with the bible is we would say
there's some truth in it but some falsehood
inside of it. And for us to discern
what's the truth, we go to the Quran
because we believe it's the final revelation.
You see, it's the final revelation which distinguishes
and sieves out and filters out the truth
from the falsehood.
And so our relationship with the bible is
we would say as any historian would frankly
that some parts of it are veracious and
are acceptable and other parts of it are
interpolations,
corruptions,
and false frankly.
So I can't argue that the Bible wasn't
changed because things have been changed over a
period of time. I'm not gonna lie to
you there.
But back in the day, let's say Moses
himself, did he have the Quran?
Pardon?
Moses?
Yes. Back in the day, did he have
the Quran?
So Moses we believe that Moses was sent
the Torah and that's the same thing as
what the Jews believe.
So the Torah was sent to Moses
The Torah is the Torah. Now Christians
have a book called the Old Testament.
Jews have the same book but they call
it the Hebrew Old Testament. The first five
books of that
book is what Jews refer to as a
Torah.
Beginning from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus,
and Numbers and so on.
Now we would say about this is that
this is not actually the Torah.
This is these 5 books are not actually
the Torah.
But you can see this number 1 and
the fact that there's no chain of narration
which links Moses to these 5 books.
Number 2
that the if you see the first manuscripts
that we have of the old testament in
general
there are there are about a 1000 years
after Moses frankly.
There are 1000 years after Moses. So there's
no connection between
for example the Dead Sea Scrolls
or this or whatever it may be and
Moses in a connect in a direct way.
The second thing is that
you're so
we believe that there was an original book
sent to Moses and that that book was
corrupted.
But the corruption that we have now of
the first five books
is not necessarily the Torah that Moses was
originally sent. But there may be remnants of
it which are. So once again as a
historian look into it. Now historians say for
instance there's something called documentary hypothesis.
Documentary hypothesis is the idea that there's all
there's so many different authors of the bible.
This is the dominant school of thought now
in secular history. That there have been so
many different kinds of authors of the bible
that all bring different
things to the bible and it is what
it is.
We would say there are some things in
the bible which are true.
I mean if you open the bible with
all due respect the first page
the first page of the bible has contradictions
inside of it. The first page.
For example, it says in the beginning was
the God was the God created the night
and the day. And on the 1st day
God created the night and the day. But
on the 4th day according to Genesis 1,
on the 4th day God created the sun.
But how can you have night and day
without the sun?
On the 3rd day God created the vegetation.
It's like the plantation, the shrubbery. But how
can you have the how can you have
plants and vegetation without the sun?
On in Genesis chapter 2 verse 5 which
is the second page of the bible.
It said that no plant has sprung up
yet sprung up yet.
So I thought in Genesis chapter 1 it
said that on the 3rd day God created
the the plants. But then in Genesis chapter
2 verse 5 it says there's no plants.
So are there plants or no plants? So
there's internal contradictions,
there's external contradictions.
I mean that's why most of the
people of today in 21st century have resorted
to what you call metaphorizing
the biblical text.
So they're spiritualizing it. They're saying this is
not what it's meant to be it's just
a metaphor that's why there's so many contradictions
inside of it.
And this was not the dominant idea back
in the days. There's only really the Alexandrian
school who are like origin of Alexandria and
others
that used to do that. But apart from
that no bonafide church father used to do
that frankly.
Apart from the
Alexander school. So in other words people have
resorted
yeah to metaphorizing the bible because of the
contradictions inside of it. And they can't solve
those contradictions.
And so what we would say is that
a true book from God cannot have contradictions.
That's why the Quran says that if this
book was from other than God, you would
have found in it many contradictions.
You would have found in it many contradictions.
And that's the challenge that we put to
humanity.
That if the Quran is truly from other
than God then why there are no contradictions
inside of
it? And so this is one of the
many challenges that we put to humanity.
Go ahead. Okay. Thanks for your explanation.
I think it was really good.
I just questioned it because,
in my belief, I think it was God
and is God. And at the same time,
how do you how do you dictate what's
real not in the Bible? Like for example,
Ani said it was changed numerous times, but
how do you dictate what's real and what's
not real in your sense?
Because I've seen many times in the Bible
where he says, I am God in different
ways.
But in your stance, you're saying it's not
true because things have changed over the years
but how did you know what's real and
what's not in the Bible? So, what is
god? Let me ask you this. What what
what is god?
The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. The
one that guides us through
our daily life. Do you define God as
the all powerful, the all knowing?
Do you define God in those terms? Like
the beginning, no beginning, no end. Do you
define God as the one who's all powerful,
the creator of the universe?
Yes.
Okay so when you pray to God you
you are praying to the creator of the
universe?
Yes. Alright so if you're if you're praying
to the creator of the universe and the
one who's all powerful, the one who's without
limitation,
the one who is all knowing and so
on.
There are many things about Jesus
which make him impossible to be God.
For example, if he's a human being, he
is limited in knowledge. And in fact, if
you look at the book of Mark chapter
13, I think verse 34,
you'll find that he went to the tree
and he didn't know
if it was in season. He didn't know
when the hour was gonna be.
For example,
he said no one knows when the hour
is gonna be except for the father.
So if Jesus is God, how come he's
lacking in knowledge when we've already defined God
as being all knowledgeable.
What do you say to
that? Okay. So
as God being all knowing, I've been the
father, right?
Let's say Jesus is his son, right?
Maybe as a father,
you don't tell your son everything that you
wanted him to know upfront.
Maybe But the son but the son is
meant to be all knowing because the son
Jesus is meant to be all okay.
The holy spirit is meant to be God
because the trinity says the father is God.
The son is God. The Holy Spirit is
God. If no one according to the bible
it says no one knows the hour except
for the father. Okay?
So does the Holy Spirit
know the hour according to the Bible?
I've not seen the verse saying that but
I would assume yes.
No no the the verse says the opposite
of that. So the verse says that no
one knows the hour except
for the father right? Which means that the
Holy Spirit
is precluded, is not included in that. So
if that's the case, if the holy spirit
is meant to be God
and the holy spirit and being God means
knowing everything,
Then there's a contradiction there. Do you see
the point?
I see what you're saying. Yeah. So a
contradiction is meant to be false. It's wrong.
So if you're speaking to for example you
know when you speak to your guests some
of the on intersexual dynamics or whatever
and then one of them says you know
if if one of those women come, you
know, one of those escorts or sorry to
say, well, I don't know what they are.
If one of them,
I don't know what they are. But let's
say one of those escorts come and say,
what do you consider yourself? You you say
to her, what do you consider yourself? So
you say, okay,
you know she's a 6 she says I'm
7 out of 10.
And then 2 minutes later she says I
am 6 out of 10. And then 2
minutes later she goes I'm a 1 out
of 10. You're gonna say this is a
grand contradiction.
Either that or you're confused.
So if the if Jesus,
yeah, is meant to be God, he has
to be all knowing. If the holy spirit
is meant to be God, he has to
be all knowing. But he can't be all
knowing and not know when the hour is
because then that precludes
a part of very essential knowledge. You see
the point?
Yes but just going back to the first
thing you said about the bible contradicting yourself.
Yes. How would I know
that that hasn't been changed too? See. Pardon?
How would I know that that verse
hasn't been changed as well? You get that?
Oh yeah exactly.
Then then that's it. So you got layers
of problems here. You've got issues here.
You've got one issue that you don't even
know what verse has been changed and what
hasn't. Then you got the other issue which
is that the concept of God according to
Christianity
is contradictory.
Because you have one God.
So Jesus is God,
the son is God. Sorry the father is
God, the son is God, and the holy
spirit is God. But there's only one God
you see. So this ain't no contradiction I'm
I'm outlining right here. Because if you went
to your child who is 7 years old
and you said to him, Look we believe
that the father is God, the son is
God, the holy spirit is God but there's
only one God. And you do this and
you throw you show your 3 fingers like
that. I'm pretty sure that your child is
gonna say,
this is a problem here dad, you know.
Because
this is something which is basic that
this is a contradiction in the idea of
conception of
God. But all Christians, Catholics believe in this,
Protestants believe in this. And so Islam solves
the problem because what Islam does for you
it says there's only one God.
Jesus was not a God. He was yes
a great man. He was the messiah. He
was a prophet. We accept Jesus. We believe
his second coming all of that kind of
stuff. But to believe that he's actually God
that we pray to him when he himself
according to the bible was on the cross
and he was saying Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani.
God God why have you forsaken me? Who
is he even speaking to then?
Like in the bible this is what he's
mentioned
God God why have you
forsaken me?
So it seems to me that this would
be a grand contradiction. And if he did
die and then was resurrected
as in Easter,
because we're in Easter time as what the
you know
the Christians believe. If that was the case
then who was running the universe at that
time?
You know. You could say his
body died and his soul didn't.
Really its
hermeneutical gymnastics.
Mental acrobatics. That's what we have to do
in order to believe in things like this
brother. I have to be honest with you.
Okay. So just real quick and then this
is my last point here. So you mentioned
earlier about showing your your son or your
daughter
3 fingers saying one is God. But you
mentioned earlier that God is all knowing, powerful,
almighty. Correct?
So as a man,
who are you to question
his logic and judgment
or his creation, which is basically us questioning
him as being god. So you're saying 3
in 1 makes doesn't make sense to us,
but may make sense to him. You know
what I'm saying? And then just real quick
here, you mentioned,
Jesus in regards. The argument with every single
girl that comes on your podcast and says,
look, I'm a transgender.
I'm this I'm that. We'll say look it
doesn't make sense to you but it makes
sense to God it makes sense. Truth is
not relative. Truth is objective.
Like if I said 2+2 equals 4 you
cannot say well 2+2 equals 4 to me
but it doesn't mean it to you or
to God.
If 2+2 equals 4
is not something which is static all kinds
of absurdities will result. So for example the
law of non contradiction, yeah? That you cannot
have 2 opposite things at the same place
at same time existing together. You cannot have
a tall short man. You cannot have you
know a squared circle and so on and
so forth.
If this if you do away with this
rule
then any absurdity follows. That's a logical precept.
If you do away with the law of
non contradiction any
it's not even something which is obtainable anymore.
There's no such thing as truth.
So if you remove the laws of logic
then there is no such thing as truth.
An absurdity can follow from that.
Yeah that would apply to people, human beings
but to God you're putting a lot of
restriction. You get what I'm saying? But real
quick, so No. No. Just on this point.
I wouldn't agree because I'm saying to you
that
the laws of logic
apply.
God is the one who we would say
he is the one who
set the laws of logic
himself.
The thing is if you don't believe in
the laws of logic and for example non
contradiction or for example 2 plus 2 equals
4. If you don't believe in any of
that then you can't have a conversation with
anyone about anything because there's no common ground.
You can never find out what truth is.
Do you get it?
So creation itself,
who decided 2+4?
Mandy, right?
Mhmm. I'm just saying on a basis
2+2.
Who decided that?
Who decided 2+2 equals 4? Is that a
serious question? With all due respect like is
No no no no no one decided 2+2
equals 4 bro. How did it come about?
2+2
look mathematics is a language. Yeah?
Mathematics is a language and it's
actually it's a tautology.
So tautology is when you say
the same thing twice. 2+2 is an expression
of 4.
So 2 the equal sign in mathematics shows
that 2+2 is equivalent to 4.
Do you get it? So it's like say
a tautology if I'm saying it's raining it's
raining. I'm saying the same thing twice. It's
always true.
So because in logic a tautology is always
true anything with an equal sign in mathematics
is also always true.
It's not no one decided that. That's something
which you call an objective truth.
If you don't have it, you won't be
able to do physics, you won't be able
to do science, you can't do logic, you
can't do it. You can't even have a
conversation.
But let me tell you something, brother. I'll
be honest with you, my friend. What is
your name again?
Fresh.
Fresh. My friend if you really believed in
what you're talking about right now which is
that you're
okay
to think that potentially the laws of logic
or mathematics can be relative.
Then really like
where
you're seated right now. That's not the argument
though. What is the argument?
If I'm God
and I'm the creator, I'm almighty. Yeah. I
don't the rules of logic or whatever you
say is man. Why would I do that?
I'm just I'm just questioning because I don't
know from your opinion. How can you question
God himself
if he's a I'm telling you brother that
2 +2 equals 4.
2+2 equals 4 is something which is tautological.
Yeah. It's something which is true always and
it's objectively true. I'm not forgot though. You
you get what I'm saying? It's objectively true
for God as well. Yes.
No, but but but you're paying that on
God himself. I'm not putting it on God.
God put it on us. You did.
God put that on us. No, as man.
God put that on us. I don't put
anything on God.
God made it so that the universe
the universe
and our minds a priori all the logical
precepts that we come to
are based on what you call the laws
of
logic.
Do you get it? If you do away
with the laws of logic, like I said
before, if you do away with the laws
of logic, everything fails.
Do you get me?
You can't have a discussion about anything.
We're gonna we're gonna disagree on this point.
But Okay. No problem. The fact is 2
+2 is 4 in the human world I'm
just saying in God's realm it could be
it could be in anything. What's God's realm?
I I'm I'm proposing
that 2+2 equals 4
in every possible world. That's what I'm proposing.
But how do you know?
If you put it in a if you
put it in a modal logic format, it's
the same thing.
No.
Okay. With a possible worlds format. Like for
example, if you something called modal logic, you've
got a, there's there's no contradiction in that.
For you to for you to say 2+2
is not equal to 4 in all possible
worlds, you have to show me a contradiction
of 2+2 equals 4.
No but I'm not talking about for example
us as human beings. Let me be honest
with you fresh. I I honestly don't believe
that you would put your life on the
fact that 2+2
is not equal to 4 in every possible
world. But
you
are forced to talk about it like this
because you know you cannot defend
the trinity without rejecting logic.
What did you get? It's because you mentioned
before the Bible has contradictions. So I don't
wanna go into that because obviously speaking you
could just say it's wrong or right. I'm
just saying
naturally, if you look at god as creator,
the all being almighty, if he decides 2
plus 2 is 3
No no. Copy question. It's it's it's not
that's the okay. 2 +2
is you cannot be decided to be 3.
Because what that would be if that itself
that process is an impossibility.
It's like saying God can create a squared
circle. So the process of deciding that 2
+2 equals 3
is not possible in the real world. It's
in the category of logical
classification called impossibilities.
Do you get it? And impossibilities cannot exist
in the real world. So for example, a
squared circle cannot exist in the real world.
Likewise,
the decision or the act of deciding that
2+2 equals 3
cannot be made true in the real world.
Do you get it?
I got you bro. Okay. Let's move on
to the next thing, brother. You could we
could think about this in our own time.
Religion.
I wanted to speak about more your stuff
guys because, you know, I know you guys
do intersexual dynamics. Let me ask you a
question, guys. I wanna
get to it, which is what do you
decide is a high value man?
I want my run on this as well.
Because we spoke about religion. I let people
decide what they think is right.
But you guys are let's say you're a
specialist now. This is your area. I wanna
pick your brains a little bit because I
think you don't know your impact is actually
quite a significant impact.
And, I think that you
you actually made some very interesting contributions,
you know, especially what now they call it
the men's rights movement or, you know men's
activism or something. And I think some of
your contributions frankly are good.
I've heard some of them. I watched on
YouTube. I wanted to start with this question.
What do you guys think is a high
value man?
How do you define it? Go first. Go
ahead. You're good. No. You go ahead, man.
No. I don't wanna continue real real quick.
I gotta Okay. I don't know. I don't
want further than religion, but it's fine. Go
ahead. No. I mean, y'all y'all can if
you guys want. Let's let's let's do your
topic.
So I mean this is a subjective thing.
Right? For everyone it's gonna be different,
so I don't really think
there's a truly wrong or right answer, but
what I will say is that it's gonna
probably on the side of
obviously a a higher earner than average,
someone who has respect from other individuals, has
a network of people that are also on
his level,
as far as status, whether it's a financial,
social, etcetera.
And he's somebody that other people want to
essentially be like. I mean to put it
bluntly,
is the guy that other women wanna be
with and other men wanna be, if I'm
gonna put it very simply.
How about you Fresh? What do you say
about this?
So the term high
value, the word itself, I get it, is
being used around Yeah. We hate using that
term. Hate the term? We actually never use
that term Yeah. Ever. I hate it. But
it means something in the world today, so
we use it sparingly.
But I would say No. No. I'm I'm
I'm intrigued by it. I'm not necessarily I'm
not throwing what you're saying out the window.
Fresh, were you gonna say something?
No. No. No. I was gonna just define
high value for me. Go on. Go ahead,
please. Yeah. So it just means a man
that has worked on himself.
He's successful in his own right, has a
network of people around him that care about
him and respect him, and at the same
time has values in the marketplace. For example,
maybe it could be singing, it could be
for example his business, it could be for
example his skill set, to the public. Whatever
that may be, makes him high value in
the eyes of other people as a whole.
That's what I would say. Would you say
that, and this is a question to both
of you, is this an intrinsic classification or
is it extrinsic? In In a sense that
if it's intrinsic then for example
like a block of gold. It has intrinsic
value.
But let's say for example like you know
let's say a TikToker. Yeah.
Doing some kind of a video dancing or
something like that. You couldn't say that that
has intrinsic value but its value is dictated
by the marketplace. So is your classification
of a high value man, is it more
intrinsic or extrinsic in that sense?
So I would say
it's up to the individual because
I made a song, High Value Man, funny
song by the way.
But the term itself, High Value, was used
as a cursor for precursor
for wearing watches and chains and having success,
cars and girls. But that was my opinion
at the time of what Hawaii was.
But as you evolve, we become more placed
on different different aspects of life. And maybe
for you, maybe just a sit talker that's
on Internet with a lot of views. So
I think it's just up to the person
or individual what they decide for that to
be.
I've got I've got a take on this,
guys. I don't I don't know what you
guys think of this, but
hello?
No go ahead.
Yeah yeah yeah sorry. So I was gonna
say look I
I get what you guys are saying especially
when you speak about men and women. Yeah?
But here's here's my take on this. I
think there's there's a kernel of truth in
what you guys are saying.
But I think it's mostly in the economic
marketplace. So for example, here's what I would
say,
when you guys use the term high value
you're usually using it in terms of what
women would be attracted to I. E. Vis
a vis something like hypergamy.
And there's ample evidence,
there's a Queen study like
which I think is the most authoritative that
hypergamy is true Like in the sense
that if a woman is given a choice
between a man with a like ceteris paribus
everything else remaining the same. A man who's
a higher earner versus a lower earner she's
always gonna go for the higher earner. In
fact and that's the truth.
Likewise a lot of the stuff about you
say about women. Women who have less experience
in what you call a body count or
something like that. It's true that that's probably
and the market sexual market value value is
probably going to be less,
ceteris paribus everything else remaining the same. However,
here's the thing that I would think that
is important to distinguish
between. This is why I asked you the
question about intrinsic versus extrinsic.
Because in this very strict parameter
of how
the other or the opposite gender sees that
person
for marriage or long term committal relationship or
even casual relationship
that this whole high value man has weight.
This term has weight. But if we're talking
about intrinsically as like for example, remember I
gave you the example of the block of
gold versus the TikTok video.
Intrinsically a high value man has always classically
meant usually in ethics for example all the
way up to Christian morality and Islamic morality
and Jewish morality.
Most of the world's cultures
a high value man or a high value
woman
has always been like a virtuous man or
a virtuous
woman. So virtue dictates the value of someone
on an intrinsic level.
Virtue.
So what is virtue like?
In the past even before Christ you had
a person called Aristotle who died 323 BCE.
He wrote a book called Nicomachean Ethics.
And he had something called virtue ethics which
basically like he mentioned some of the key
virtues for human beings.
The most important one for a man
that makes him high value
opposite to a woman and this is what
I'm putting forward. In that paradigm and also
in the paradigm of Islam and Christianity I
would argue and Judaism
is bravery.
I'll put it this way. If you had
the most rich man in the world but
he was a coward
he'd not be a high value man. He
would be a disqualifier.
On an intrinsic level. Yes, he might be
sought after.
It might be sought after in terms of
like women might still wanna be with him.
But they don't really wanna be with him
because of what he is or who he
is. They wanna be with him because of
what he can offer.
In other words, they wanna be with his
money really. They wanna have access to his
money. So they're using him utility value.
Yeah. They're using him for his money. Because
they're trying to access funds. That's what they're
trying to do. He's basically an ATM machine.
And so what I wanted to distinguish between
is a high value man
on an intrinsic level who exhibits things like
temperance,
magnanimity,
forgiveness,
mercy,
kindness
but most and chief most among which
is bravery because a man needs bravery more
than a woman
to provide and protect.
Yeah. So I would I would agree with
that. But my thing is that that's why
I was very because you only spoke about
it from the female lens, like how women
deem, the like women deeming the guy high
value. But what I'm saying is that you
you garner the respect of other men and
a coward does not garner the respect of
other men. That's why it's very important, like
when I look at this term, not to
just look at it from the lens of
what females are attracted to, rather what do
other men respect. And obviously cowardice is never
respected. So, if someone's a coward, then they
automatically are disqualified because other men don't respect
them. They can have all the money in
the world, but they're a coward. So That's
right. I expect that we're virtue,
but I'm I'm saying, like, you know, when
you it's pretty much already implied
that you're a virtuous man and that you're
not a coward when other men respect you
because men, we tend to value other men
based on their meritocracy, and that meritocracy
is, you know, encapsulated in a bunch of
different traits. Are you honest? Are you a
man of your word? Are you, trustworthy?
Can I trust you to get something done
and get it done when you say you're
gonna get it done? Are you not are
you, willing to stand up for not just
yourself but for other people that you love
and, care about? So cowardice has never been
respected. So I would say that the virtue,
that
argument that you're making, which I agree with
actually,
falls into the other men respecting you because
that's what men respect is meritocracy.
Well, I see what you're saying. But here's
the thing. So this is an interesting parameter,
but it's also an economic one. So for
I agree with what you said. I think,
like, other men would respect
another man with a lot of money. Right?
They would never respect a man who's a
coward, even if he has a lot of
money. Yeah. So here's the point. I think
that a lot of the red pill stuff,
like
that we get involved in and stuff,
or the discussions that we have, we over
emphasize
how much money we have to make
in order to satisfy or to attract other
women.
And we under emphasize the virtue aspect of
it. And I'm not saying that the money
aspect of it is not important.
I'm pretty sure that the money aspect of
it is important. Especially
depending on how generous the man is. Because
if the man is not generous and which
is one of the virtues, having a lot
of money is not a problem.
It doesn't matter. Even the woman if she
finds him to be stingy
and wealthy that combination will never work out
because she knows what he's trying to do.
So
I feel like maybe I don't know
moving forward with like fresh and fit and
stuff. If we focus on the virtue aspect
of things a little bit more because I
feel like the society is moving on
to a degenerate state bro. I'm not gonna
lie to you.
And
that is fueled by hedonism and capitalism
and also this idea that now
mamothor
is the new god which is the god
of money. The god of money is the
new god.
People are now chasing money
and hedonism
and frivolous
pursuits.
They think that for example, Raul Tomasi wrote
a book called The Rational Mill. Right?
You've had them on your show before. I've
read the entire book cover to cover.
And he mentions in his book that you
know you need to sleep with 50 women
or whatever it mentioned whatever it may be
in order to achieve certain levels so you
can really have the experience.
Yeah to be with women. I think I've
seen you Fresh mention something like that before
because I watched a video before with you
guys and sneaker having a discussion and, Destiny.
1st calls it spinning not 1st. Excuse me.
Rolo calls it spinning plates or plate theory.
It's a I call it getting getting experience,
right, and being understand being able to understand
how the sexual marketplace works.
But yeah, I mean, sorry. You were But
on this point, bro, here's what I would
say. Yeah.
There is no evidence
there is no evidence that having sex with
a lot of women
translates into an ability to under understand women
in the context of a committed relationship or
or longjevous relationship.
There is no evidence of that. So in
for for this is where
the red pill makes a lot of claims,
assertions but they're not backed. Because the idea
is I feel like there's just ad hoc
justifications and rationalization
for hedonism.
Which is effectively just doing whatever you want
whatever you desire.
But really let's let's
assess this claim. The claim that if you
have sex with a lot of women that
that's gonna lead to you
knowing women more and therefore having a stronger
relationship, more long givous relationship with some kind
of woman.
But there's no it doesn't seem to me
that there's any evidence to that effect because
I I was looking at some studies on
casual sex.
Yeah. And I was looking at there was
like 5 or 6 of them that have
been done. And all of those studies, they're
first of all they're mixed. They're contradictory, funny
enough. Some of them say that, yeah, they
harm women. Actually, most of them say they
harm women. Casual sex harm women. That that
is a consensus psychological finding.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah. Of course not. And they would never
run a study like that because it would
be considered unethical. Right? And we know that,
you know, when they run these studies, they
have to be politically correct. They gotta get
funding. They have to do it in a
certain way to get the blessing. But what
I will say Mhmm. Is,
with the whole
body
sleeping with women or whatever it may be,
it's not necessarily to understand women better, it's
to understand the women that you don't wanna
necessarily be with. And I think that's half
the game because what ends up happening right
in
a remember, I mean you're you're in the
UK so you know this too. I mean
the UK is going through this as well.
We live in a very hypersexualized
world where women are more promiscuous than ever
before. So my thing is, right, I look
at it like and I was just having
this discussion with Andrew, he's a devout orthodox
Christian and he saw my perspective on this
too. If you're gonna meet try to meet
a woman in the west where they are,
promiscuous, they don't necessarily adhere to gender roles
when it doesn't benefit them, they want a
man that makes money but they don't want
to necessarily submit, etcetera. I think it's very
important for you as a man to identify
these women early on and not bring them
into your life. Because
the the beauty of religion, right, whether it's
Christianity,
Islam, or Judaism is that it basically had
an institution of shame and it had what
I call training wheels to keep women honest
with their men. You know, it pretty much
shamed them for not doing things that they
were supposed to do. But these training wheels
are effectively gone. We live in a secular
world now, and unless you're a very religious
man and you're meeting a very religious woman,
it's gonna be very difficult for you to
find a woman that's virtuous. So my thing
is I think if, you know, is and
the other reason why I think this is
so important is because,
when you get married, right, luckily, you know,
in the in the in Islam, you can't
just go to a
go to a mosque, go to an imam,
he'll marry you. Boom. Done. You don't gotta
worry about the state being involved. But most
people don't get married that way. They get
married through the state. And with the way
the family courts are set up, with the
way divorce is set up, with the way
it's basically an entire industry
against men, I look at it like if
you're gonna go ahead and you wanna have
a family one day, which is the nuclear
family, which is the backbone of society,
and you wanna get married, you are taking
on a tremendous amount of risk and I
don't want you to go in blind. However,
if you're getting married and the state isn't
involved and, there's no severe consequences to you
financially,
then sure. Go ahead and be less sexually
experienced than me to 1 because at least
you're not gonna be severely punished for it.
But my thing is the reason why I
even gave that idea like, hey, get with
more women so that you understand them is
because I just don't want men to deal
with the the horrors of the family court.
Now is it the best solution? Probably not.
But I think it's a pragmatic one given
the the world that we're now.
So what Yeah. Here's the thing. I just
wanna know what the evidence is of for
example having intercourse with multiple women.
What benefit like let's say 50 or 30
what
what benefit are you alleging that it has
on the man? What benefit are you alleging
it? Well, that's a that's a fair question.
Every man has different competence. Right? So, like,
one one guy might be able to hook
up with 10 girls and be like, okay.
You know what? I get it. Like, I've
I don't, you know, it is what it
is. But another guy, you know, might be
incompetent, might be an idiot, every everyone's, you
know,
level of adaptation is different. So I'm not
saying, oh, have a hard fifty and don't
get married. It's like, no, if you find
a girl that's worthy, that's fine. And I
would argue that, like, our podcast is like
we're able to kinda fast line it where,
you know, remember this information hasn't been out
for very long, so people are kind of
learning now through us talking about it on
our platform, etcetera, so So they might not
necessarily have to even hit 50 because they're
learning from our mistakes. You know, the Chinese
But what if they do get 50? What's
what's the benefit of that? What do they
get from that?
Well hopefully depending on the individual they are
able to identify women that are worthy versus
ones that aren't. In in a sexual capacity?
Well I'm also assuming that this person would
be seeing this woman if they're just looking
to have sex then obviously it's just gonna
it's gonna be a waste. But I'm talking
about,
you know, you're obviously corning this woman, you're
hanging out with this woman, etcetera. You're seeing
because look, my my friend had your book.
I was trying to look for it myself.
It's called Oh, nice.
What? I was trying to find something. And
Yeah. And actually, I was flicking through it
right before I spoke to you. And I
like the the, like, you know, the
the the the statistics you have on here.
One of them that you had on here
was, for example,
that a man will will spend 30 hours
or something like this doing 30 hours
doing speed dating online in order to just
get one date, 1.46
date in
a year or something like that. Now
what I'm saying is that to get 50
women, look you know it's a numbers game
and I know it's a numbers game.
The feasibility, the amount of man hours that
you're gonna need to put in to have
intercourse with 50 women that are not prostitutes
according to your statistics that you mentioned right?
The amount of man hours we're talking about
like if he's gonna use Tinder or some
kind of an app. And according to these
stats, he's gonna need to do a lot
of that. Right? And the and the question
of benefit here is an important one. Obviously
from a religious
standpoint, Muslims, Christians, and Jews all agree that
sex shouldn't even be done outside of marriage.
Now, it is still possible to marry 50
women. I mean, I'm not saying you cannot
marry and divorce 50 women. It's a possibility.
But I'm not necessarily saying,
that one should do that. Of course not.
We wouldn't agree that one one should do
that. The point I'm trying to get at
is that there isn't actually any good evidence
that having intercourse with that many women
would make would give you a kind of
benefit in the relationship. In fact, you could
argue the opposite. Because if
you get sex very easily,
going back to the idea
of virtue
then you can be less restrained in your
sexual appetites.
And this is something that in virtue ethics
is referred to as temperance.
So if you're less restrained you don't have
as much
you don't have as much restraint for example.
You don't have self control. And if you
don't have will power and self control in
one area
you're less likely to have it in other
areas. And I've read that in a book
called Willpower funny enough by Roy Baumastep.
Very fantastic book I recommend it. But he
mentioned the point that if you have will
power in one area for example he mentioned
fasting religious fasting as an example.
Roy Baumeister.
If you have willpower and discipline in one
area it's transferable
to other areas.
The idea of getting 50 women having sex
with them which is difficult anyway according to
these stats because just because you're dating a
woman it doesn't mean you're gonna have sex
with her. As you know like for the
average person you guys not might not be
the average person because you know from a
status perspective you guys have got you know
big channel good money coming in the guys
wearing a nice Rolex red face I like
it
fresh
and you're wearing a nice watch as well
you know you guys are well put together.
Thank you bro. Thank you bro. So not
everyone is fresh and not everyone has my
own gains. Yeah. And so it's not gonna
be easy to get sex like that. So
for them to put 30 hours to 50
hours to get one a date
and then after that to get like a
100 of those dates maybe 30 I don't
know how many what the numbers would be
a conversion rate. 5 dates to 1 woman
having sex, maybe?
I don't know. Is that my way you
know more about this than I do? Keep
in mind. Keep in mind. Right? Because people
tend to, criticize my, my,
you know, my
idea that you should have sex with 50
women. But there's a bunch of other things
I tell the guys to have in place
as well. They should make a certain amount
of money, 35 years old, be in
shape. They need to have a bunch of
things in line so that they can be
in a position. And the reason why I
say this, like so here's it. Here this
is what it is. Yeah. Make a 100
6 figures a year or more, have 6
months or a year of savings,
be in shape,
50 women and then be 35 years old.
The reason why I say have these 5
things in place is because
most women,
right, will look at you as a higher
status, more attractive male, which in will inevitably
put her and her feminine puts you and
your masculine so the relationship ends up,
actually working because we all know what happens
when you deal with a rambunctious woman. Now
Mhmm. Does that mean that if a person
reaches 10 bodies, 20 bodies, 30, 40, and
he has other things in place, oh, no.
Sorry, baby. I can't commit to you because
I I need to hit 50. No. And
like I said before with our podcast, we
might be able to cover where they don't
need to necessarily hit that number but I'm
speaking from a general perspective for most people
and then also with the as far as
the book goes with the, the dating stuff,
this is why I'm such a big proponent
of not relying on online dating. I tell
people meet people meet meet girls through your
friends, meet girls when you're out, meet them
out in real life, use Instagram. We have
multiple different,
ways that you need to go ahead and
source women. Now with that said, of course,
if you're religious, then this might not necessarily
apply to you because you're,
No matter where you fell asleep You still
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You're going against your religious beliefs. But my
thing is this, if you're a religious guy,
right, and you can't do this, that's totally
fine. The only thing I ask is I
want them to make sure that they don't
get married with the state. You don't need
to hit this body count number if you're
getting married and it's just religious strictly No,
I see. I see. Look. A lot of
what you said there a lot of what
you said there is very reasonable. I don't
think it's wrong for a man to aspire,
to make a certain money, like, certain amount
of money. I don't think it's wrong for
them to put themselves in the I think
it's actually quite praiseworthy frankly.
You know there's nothing wrong with that. My
only issue is that the reason why I
mentioned the 50 body count
thing is because I this is my analysis
bro and you could tell me what you
think. We're living in a time historians refer
to as Pax Americana.
Yeah. It's a time where America is a
superpower and as a result
western countries have not had to have wars
where they themselves are in danger in the
ways that they had in the past. Okay?
It's more like incursions or invasions or whatever
it may be. As a result, we in
the west are living in a state of
relative ease and comfort.
Arthur Schopenhauer, a famous philosopher, he said that,
human beings or humankind, mankind
vacillates
between
extreme boredom and extreme fear. Okay? I think
now we are living in an age of
extreme boredom because we are not fearing
that someone's gonna kill us. Yeah. In a
war context. As a result
we are missing what most cultures in the
past referred to as rites of passage for
men. This is where the masculinity crisis comes
in. Because before a man could prove that
he is a man by stepping on the
battlefield.
Now that that kind of opportunity
is no longer afforded to us on the
same kind of level.
And as a result we have invented rites
of passage for men
So that they can feel like they have
gone through a certain process and now they
are men. And what I see with the
red pill movement
is that they've invented arbitrary and ad hoc
rights of passage.
Which actually feed more into hedonistic
liberal thinking
than anything else. Which they're scanty to no
evidence
that will improve them as an individual, virtuously
or otherwise.
The like of which we've just mentioned the
50 body count thing which I know comes
from the rational male because I've that was
the first place I read. I don't know
if you got it from there as well.
Yeah. So the point is is our number.
He just calls it plate theory. Yeah. I
mean what I'm saying to you is in
the time it would take you to find
non prostitutes
that are 50 in number that you can
have sex with in the west. You can
spend making money for yourself.
You can spend working on yourself. You can
you can spend improving your bravery. You improving
your
proficiency,
your strength. Because the thing is I feel
like there's an underlying assumption with the red
pill movement. Yeah. And the assumption almost is
that we should live our lives to make
ourselves most marketable for women.
And I feel like that in
irony
That's not true. That's not what we At
all. That's no. So I've
always you gotta and I talk about that
in the book too is I want the
guy to be the best version of himself
and then the women are a byproduct of
it. And like I'm very explicit about that
in the book that like, hey, I don't
want guys running around chasing women, spending a
bunch of time and money and resources on
women that don't necessarily want them because what
I'll end up with is
to develop these characteristics,
of obviously sticking to his word, having these
masculine traits, being a leader, being a doctor,
being assertive, going out there and conquering the
world and becoming successful, becoming a catch,
then the women are a byproduct because whenever
guys go ahead and chase women,
a lot of problems arise. So I I
tell guys focus on yourself first and then
the pursuit of women could come after. That's
why I said Beautiful.
5 years old. Okay. It's good that you
cleared that up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
fantastic. So now my question is, if they're
focusing on themselves
why are they doing it? Are they doing
it? Is is there a purpose in life
which is an objective purpose in life that
they are are striving towards or they're just
doing it
for another reason? So what's the reason that
they're doing all these things? That's a fantastic
question. So right if you if I give
you a gun, right, you can either choose
to use it as a tool to hunt,
to eat, or you can use it to
commit crimes. Right? Mhmm. But I'm giving you
the tool and and then it's up to
you how you wanna use it. That's exactly
what this knowledge is. Some guys are gonna
use it to find their wife, be able
to, you know, filter out the woman's the
women that are worthy versus the women that
aren't worthy and they're able to use this
skill set to their advantage of building a
nuclear family. Other guys are gonna use it
for more hedonistic things that you disagree with,
which I I see your perspective on that.
Yeah. But my thing is I want to
at least equip them with the tools so
that they can decide what they wanna do
with their life because my fear is I
don't want them to get in a situation
where the woman is dictating everything because the
guy's aloof and not aware of what's going
on. And I think that aspect of it
is is probably where you excel the best
and most because that aspect of it appeals
to
something deep within every single man which is
the ambitious drive to become better.
And so long as these things are very
important that we're clarifying that we're not doing
this because
of any woman. And you know I'm not
sure if you've come across these archetypes you
know the alpha male, the sigma male and
the beta male archetypes. So you've seen them
online and the differences between them. You see
the sigma male archetype usually has what you're
talking about. He doesn't really care about what
the woman
is doing or saying or thinking. Whereas the
alpha male,
it's more he's you know he is a
status figure and as a result the women
are coming towards him and so on and
so.
Here what I'm trying to advocate is more
in line with that sigma male archetype rather
than the alpha male or beta male archetype.
But what I wanted to add as well
is that the thing with red pill bro
is
there's a few
elusive
but important things
in the manual of red pill
which I think you need to be aware
of. So for example if you look at
Royall Thomas's book he mentions that this is
not an ideology
but this is a Praxology. I don't know
if you've come across this terminology. Yeah? Yeah.
And
then he proceeds in the end of his
book
to writing down what he talks about as
8 laws or I think 12
iron laws. Right? Yes. Now I know they
are suggestive. They are not prescriptive
from one angle.
They're not obligatory. You don't have to do
them. The 50 rule, the vasectomy that he
talks about all these kind of things which
are arbitrary in my opinion and there's scanty
evidence for their benefit like I've said before.
Right?
But the vasectomy, the the the lack of
family, don't get married, you know these kinds
of things that he talks about. Don't get
married and you know the iron laws and
how many people you have to have sex
with and all that kind of thing. But
in ethics But marriage, he just doesn't advocate
with how we do it today, the with
with the state being involved. Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And I totally
sympathise with that viewpoint especially with the woman
taking half of your wealth. We would consider
that to be a grand injustice anyway. Yeah?
And a lot of the things about how
women can withhold their children and that's where
I agree with the red pill. That's totally
where I agree with them. I think that's
where the strongest arguments lie.
Yeah. However, I'm going back to the point
that
there's something quite elusive about this situation because
it's and when something becomes ideological when does
something become ideological it becomes ideological
when it becomes what you call teleological. When
it becomes prescriptive
to some extent.
And something can become prescriptive to some extent
even if someone's making suggestions and giving advice.
I think I feel like Rola Tomassi doesn't
understand this point because I saw his discussion
with you and Sneeko and and Destiny.
And although I don't like the latter person
I just mentioned, Destiny there, I don't like
him. I feel like he's a weasel of
a man. I don't think he's even a
man. I actually don't think he's a a
man, let alone a high value man. He's
not even a man.
Him, Ben Shapiro and all these other people
that I mentioned in that discussion they're not
even men. They don't even meet the threshold
of men.
But putting that to the side
What I'm saying is that
the red pill ideology
is prescriptive and therefore it meets the threshold
of ideological.
And so the Quran asked a question.
Do they have partners with God that have
legislated
that which he has not permitted?
When someone tells me to do something or
not to do something the question is from
what greater authority are you coming with this
information?
And people like Raul Tomasi with all due
respect to him because he is a clever
guy and he's respectable and I've seen his
book and some of the stuff I totally
agree with him on it.
But what authority do you have to give
me iron laws or any kind of laws?
Do you know what I'm trying to say?
Like I showed a picture of him with
some of the guys, some of the MMA
fighters. I don't wanna mention who they are.
Him with his hat and his ponytail and
this kind of thing.
And they looked at it and said this
is a guy who's written a book. Tell
me what you think. The first thing they
said to her
is this is not the guy that's gonna
tell me how to be a man.
With all due respect to him. No. No.
No. I mean, you know, if you want
I can absolutely facilitate you guys having a
discussion. I think it'd be a great discussion
but, you know, I can't speak to his
views. I mean, me and him agree on
a lot of things.
I don't have the, you know, I don't
have the 9 iron rules like he does,
but I'd be happy to, you know, facilitate
this that discussion if you want to talk
about that. I mean,
debate wise I'm I'm open to speak to
anybody. But the point I'm making to you
is going back to the point that we
in the West, we have these rights of
passage that we think we have to go
through in order to be men. But the
truth is the rites of passage that you
have to go through in order to be
men
is increasing and bettering all those virtues
which are seen by cross culturally, cross religions,
Christians, Muslims, Jews everyone can agree. All those
things
are good things. Like for example being brave,
temperance,
for example, having magnanimity,
for example, having forgiveness, for example, being loving,
for example, not being foolhardy. For example, not
being cowardly. For example, and so on and
so forth. Do you get what I'm trying
to say? So if someone works on those
things increases their knowledge and from our perspective
as Muslims
has faith that's when they attain
a high value man status.
That's what it is. So high value man
for us is it is the virtuous man.
If the virtuous if the person cannot reach
if he's a coward, it doesn't matter how
much money he is. I don't care if
Bezos or Musk. If if Musk one day
is walking the street, Elon Musk and he's
with his kid
or is with his wife. Yeah.
And someone slaps his wife or shouts at
his wife or spits on his wife and
he cannot intervene and defend in a proper
manner or at least tries to defend her.
I don't care how much money he's got,
how many platform he owns, how many companies
he's got. He doesn't even meet the threshold
of man
anymore. He's not even a man anymore. Let
alone high value man. It doesn't matter how
much money you've got. That's on an intrinsic
level.
Yes. He's always gonna have women that are
gonna want him but they're not gonna want
him for him. They're gonna want him for
what he has.
He is a walking ATM machine. He would
be. Do you get what I'm trying to
say? So that's where I feel like
the emphasis should
be also. So here's the thing so
and and I don't blame you for this,
a lot of people don't know this stuff,
but we do daytime shows, right, similar to
this one that we're doing right now where,
obviously you're a special guest so we're not
doing it today. But on Mondays, we talk
about how to earn money, right, and obviously
earning with becoming successful earning money, you have
to have certain characteristics of being disciplined, exercising
temperance,
being, dedicated, etcetera, and putting off hedonism a
lot of times to become successful. On Wednesdays,
we talk about how to properly date and
vet women and then on Fridays, we answer
questions. We tell guys that they need to
get in shape, etcetera. So
unfortunately, right, and this is kinda one of
the things me being very open here about
our podcast,
our daytime shows don't get as much views
and clips and virality because Oh I see
I see it putting, yeah. I'm saying like
no one clips when I yell at men
and tell them to stop being pussies. No
one clips when I tell them to, you
know, honor your guys near you and have
a good circle of men and be good
to those men. They never clip that stuff
because no one no one that's not exciting.
They wanna see us dunk on random bimbos
on after hours and that's where people Yeah.
That's that's the issue. Model. But they never
get to see the other side. What we
talk about, I've been very adamant about loyalty.
I mean one of the biggest criticisms I
get is people say, oh, you're loyal to
a fault. You you you support,
you know, people all the time. Like, you
know, they gave me so much criticism for
standing by Andrew when he was going through
that bull* with with the thing. But to
me, it's nature because that's just a masculine
trait where if you're my friend, I don't
give a * what anyone says about you,
I know that you're innocent and I'm gonna
defend you regardless of whether it's popular or
not. Yeah. So
but obviously, you know, these these things that
we talk about never get highlighted, unfortunately. What
gets highlighted is us dunking on bimbos and
they assume that that's all we talk about.
But we do really focus on trying to
get guys to self improve and have these
virtuous, traits that you're talking about. Yeah. Not
being empowered, sticking to your word, not being
a backbiter, standing by your friends when they
need you. Because that is something I agree
with you that is lost in the west
in general. It's something that's lost in gen
z especially where for them it's all about
making content and going viral and you know
there's no there's no honor almost in in
today's video. Yeah.
So I agree with you on that. It's
just that unfortunately that doesn't get pushed in
the algorithm as much. They always clip our
other stuff. Our more degenerative content gets clipped,
which is unfortunate.
Yeah. That is that is that is the
truth. That is the truth. I can see
you. I can see what you're saying.
Sorry. First, you were trying to say something.
Right? No. It's it's
I get it because he didn't
knock them, like We're coming from a secular
standpoint, of course. It's not gonna be religious.
Yeah. It's very secular, worldly. So our point
of view are our actual steps are gonna
be more like I wanna say
No. And and actually funny funny point, like,
people that are religious, I'll refer them to
people that are more religious. Like, I've we've
had I've had Muslim guys ask me like,
hey, how do I go about this? And
I'm like, you know what, dude? We're not
religious to tell you. Go to go to
someone like Mohammed Hijab. He'll advise you on
how to deal with dating in the modern
day marketplace based on your religion because what
I'm telling you is secular advice, and it's
not gonna align with what you're supposed to
be doing. Yeah. So Even if it's like
they call them Here's here's one piece of
advice I'd give you, Myron, and forgive me
if this comes across as a bit too
forthright here.
Recently I've seen some clips where some non
Islamophobic guests have been attacking the religion. And
you gave I know what your style is.
I understand it. Your style is to let
people speak. You're a believer of free speech
and all this kind of thing. I fully
understand.
But there comes a time where,
okay, you you need to exhibit some of
those virtues that we're talking about in the
sense that okay if they're talking about your
religion because you're a Muslim right? Yeah. Like
fresh in the beginning even though you know
he did try his best and I respect
him for that. He was when I was
speaking about, you know, the Bible and Christianity,
he wanted to push back. He did want
to push back. And he, you know, was
thinking and he was really being,
you know,
inquisitive and so on. I would want to
see a bit more of that, brother. You
know what I'm trying to say? If people
are attacking Islam because
let me tell you something. We need to
have as much an emotional investment in the
principles that we hold to be true
as we do with issues to do with
gender and so on. Like if for example
I've seen you get mad a few times
with some woman in your studio
that was I don't know saying certain things
and then she left and you you know
you got mad at her, you got vexed.
Now
let me tell you something like the companions
of the prophet, companions of the prophet Muhammad
when they would when things would be said
about him attacks, slurs
and so on, they would get vexed because
they have an emotional
attachment to religion.
And so
you know Malcolm X famously said the man
that you know, stands for nothing will fall
for anything.
And so I feel like it's not a
problem if you wanna bring Tommy Robinson, I've
heard him, I've seen him on your show
before, or anybody else,
but I feel like there needs to be
pushback when they come with nonsense about the
religion.
And if not, like, okay, you might say,
well, I don't have the knowledge for that.
But say for example Tommy Robinson, you can
call him out and say so how come
you haven't debated
Mohammed Hijab or somebody else who's also offered
you that in the past
and you haven't done it. Why are you
coming speaking about it with me? For example.
But so long as that there is some
kind of a reaction
that the Muslim audience can say okay this
guy
he's one of us and yes he has
the same emotional investments as we do.
Just like fresh in the beginning you can
see he has an emotional investment to Christiane.
He even brought out the pendant.
Now as we're talking, I don't know if
you had it in the the, you know,
the first verse is here for you as
well. You should debate Sam Shimon as well.
That'll be a good debate, you know. So
okay. I've I've debated David Wood in 2018.
It was one of the most monumental debates,
I think Christian Muslim debates in the last
century.
Potentially the most, you know. And it's been
watched like tens of millions of time across
different
different languages. So if someone wants to see
a debate between me and a Christian, that's
the most monumental one. Me versus David Wood.
I get Myron's, standpoint as well, but I
get what you're saying too. But he he
just like the guest speak because for the
Arsho, even you yourself, like, we let you
talk the whole time because you're the guest,
you know? But Yeah. So I'll I'll address
that because obviously,
people gave me some criticism for that. So,
and I know you mentioned if you stand
for, for nothing you fall for anything. For
me, I stand for free speech. That's the
most important thing to me. Right?
And one thing that I,
I'm really big on is even if I
disagree with you, I will divorce my emotions
from what you say to let you say
your piece because I think it's very important
that people are able to say what they
want to say uninterrupted
and sometimes without pushback. Now and I'll explain
what I mean by not giving pushback sometimes.
On that show, because people tend to forget
context. Right?
1 of the girls on the panel asked
Laura,
hey. You're banned all over social media. Why?
Then she went into
her views on Islam, why she was banned,
etcetera.
Though I don't agree with it and I
also don't agree with a bunch of her,
opinions, right, on foreign policy especially with Israel,
etcetera,
I respect the fact that she's a guest,
she's answering a question from another member on
the panel, and though I don't agree with
her, I'm gonna let her answer that question.
And you know to go ahead and try
to have a debate with her about
Islam and religion and everything else like that
in the middle of a podcast where we
have 9 other women at the table and
we have 30,000 people watching, it would be
counterproductive to the show. Do you employ the
same do you employ the same exact attitude
when it comes to people that are opposing
you on your gender issue discussions? Like for
example, like I said you you there are
clips of you when you're speaking to those
I don't know what they are prostitutes, escorts
what they are. Sorry to say no disrespect
to them because now sex work has become
a thing.
So are there sex workers?
Those guests that you have. But basically,
one of those episodes
you got mad. We saw you getting mad
because she was saying things that were triggering
you. And my my point is that look,
it's not a problem even if you do
have a guest. But which one was I
getting mad at? Fine. Which one? That's all.
I can't remember. I can't remember, bro. But
you got mad at 1 and you kicked
her out. Right? You kicked somebody out. It's
built up though. It's not just like randomly.
Yeah. So normally when I kick a girl
out, again this is the the the negative
side of clips.
When you see me tell a girl get
the * up out of here,
that's typically after 2 hours of her hurting
the quad of the show Yeah. Being annoying,
over speaking, interrupting the other guests on the
show. I really try to exercise a lot
of,
temptations
when women are misbehaving on the podcast and
being difficult. Right? And Yeah. When you see
me blow up and tell them get the
hell out of here, that's typically been the
culmination of multiple hours of them being annoying
and the audience knows that's watching. But unfortunately,
it gets clipped and they make it look
like, oh, this guy just kicked her out
and went crazy because she disagreed with him.
And I even say it before I do
the show, I will never kick you off
for disagreeing with me. But Mario, let me
ask you a question. If someone came on
your show and started talking about, have
you got kids?
No. Alright. If someone starts talking about your
mom, yeah?
And then like, sorry to say, went hard
with your mum. So your mum is this
and this and this and I'm not even
gonna mention anything, yeah? But if they started
doing that and they were guests on the
show, how would you react? Would you let
them say whatever they want?
Well, I mean, that's I I don't think
that, I don't know if that's the that
analogy kinda aligns with what we are talking
about. Oh it is a free speech thing.
So like in a sense you can argue,
Well this is a free speech situation, you
know? Let them say whatever you want. If
they know her personally or let's say she
is a public figure, let's say she's a
public figure or they know her personally,
and they start attacking her,
yeah, would would you accept that or would
you challenge that? People do it all the
time. They say, oh, your mom doesn't,
you know, who raised you? Your mom people
have made insults about my mom all the
time. I just it is it is I
I think
the protection, the protection of free speech overrides
my personal feelings towards that. So you would
have that you'd you'd do that if someone
attacked because here's the thing.
We we have
this goes back to virtue then because free
speech means you can also speak.
That's what it means.
So there's no contradiction in free speech if
someone says something that you disagree with, that
you challenge them or that you defer them.
Do you get what I'm trying to say?
So
and by the way just on that point,
free speech is not a holy cow.
Like free speech is not a god. Do
you get what I'm trying to say? Because
now people speak about free speech. I understand
that. But Muhammad, you missed the
point. When she gave that answer,
that was in response
to another girl on the panel. So
why am I gonna push back when she's
saying why she got banned? Does that make
sense? Like she said I didn't watch To
be honest, I didn't watch I should watch
the clip. That's the problem because people just
see the clips and they don't see the
context. Yeah, you're telling me the context. So
I Yeah, I don't know. But here's here's
what I would say generally speaking, bro.
She was just answering a question from one
of the panelists. That's how that clip came
about, but no one ever puts the context
in there. Mhmm.
Do you understand where I'm coming from that
okay free speech doesn't mean doesn't preclude that
you can also respond
in kind
with aggression and emotion. Like for example like
I said before if your parents either or
both of them were public figures
and they were being attacked or besmirched online
yeah then you can respond to that. If
you are being besmirched and someone comes and
says to you listen you're a scumbag this
this that whatever and defaming you and whatever
and you respond in kind. I'm sure you've
probably done your fair share of refutations and
repudiations in the past. So I'm trying to
say is that we as Muslims yeah, like
we in terms
of how we consider
our holy prophet,
like we have red lines. Obviously Andrew Tait
has spoken about this at length when he
when he came into Islam,
one of the things that attracted him to
Islam was the boundaries,
the red lines that Islam put.
So for for us as Muslims brothers there's
wars that have been that have started in
Islamic history
as a result of things that were said
and done which was deemed to be disrespectful.
Okay. So these are every man, one of
the things that you put as like the
virtues
is that every man has to have consequences
in it.
And if they think it's okay to come
speak to someone like Myron Gains
who has who has clout and has status
in the community, who's part of the men's
activism movement and go for his religion effectively
in front of him and that he's not
really gonna care about or something like that,
that actually deprecates your character in a certain
way. Because then if they speak about your
religion today, tomorrow they're gonna speak about your
mum. And after tomorrow they're gonna speak about
your dua. Do you get it? So what
you're trying to say is And context is
important. I disagree. Yeah, I feel like, you
know,
I feel I feel like there is something
to be done in this regard, innit? But
it's up to you. Obviously this is your
platform and your thing, but this is just
my 2¢ on this issue. Well, I I
again, I understand your 2¢ but again, context
matters.
If someone asks her a question
and she responds as to why she was
banned on social media,
then what is there to debate? Like she's
saying these are my views, this is what
got me banned. Okay. And then we just
move on because again that episode was not
designed to have a religious debate and go
back and forth. Me and Laura have already
talked, you know, offline of our differences of
opinion when it comes to American foreign policy,
Islam, etcetera, and I tell her I don't
agree with you. But Yeah. I'm not I
don't wanna flog it, that horse. I think
we both understand each other's perspectives now. I
don't wanna flog it, that horse. Like I
said before, if if so long as you
understand where I'm coming from. No. I completely
understand. And if and if we if the
if
if she made comments like that, right, and
we were having a different type of show
and there weren't 9 other girls on the
panel and one of them didn't ask her
personally for her opinion because that's what she
asked was tell me why you got kicked
off and she gave her reason why. I
can't really argue with her about why she
got kicked off. Like that's not does that
make sense? So, like, to me, it's my
life. I I totally understand what you're saying,
but someone can do that in an underhanded
manner. Like, for example, the same analogy could
be applied back to the whole mother thing.
Someone can say well the reason this is
that because you're a mother. But once again
if someone brings it up
you know it's it's a disrespect effectively bro.
Like
so anything that could be considered to be
a disrespect.
Like you know famously Khabib when he was
when he was with, Connor.
And he tried and Connor tried to under
handedly disrespect Khabib by putting like drink on
his table and stuff like that. He responded
in kind.
He wasn't having it. And then after one
corner said you know it was all business.
He didn't accept that. Because there's a degree
of seriousness that you need to exhibit
on issues that are serious.
Do you know what I'm trying to say?
Because otherwise you'd be seen as capricious and
frivolous as an individual. Like we don't want
to be seen, yeah we could all have
fun. I'm a joker as well. I like
to have fun and and joke and have
a good time.
Do you get what I'm trying to say?
But there's a time to have fun and
there's a time to get serious. And so
I just feel like when it comes to
religion and family, faith and family in particular,
these two things are always gonna be red
lines for any man and should be always
red lines for any man. That's why even
the Quran instructs us not to attack religions
of other people and mock them. Yeah we
can disagree
we could talk about the corruption the bible
and someone could say well the Quran is
corrupted and you know someone could say this
but to mock another religion now. So if
I were to come and and fresh, he's
a very polite guy. If I try to
attack him and say, you know, this and
that and try to mock him. That would
be something that Islam doesn't allow. And otherwise
shouldn't be allowed in the sense that a
man shouldn't allow for another man.
Now obviously I'm not saying anything about laws.
I'm not making a political argument here. I'm
not saying therefore we should ban this or
we should ban that. I'm just making a
point that a man has to have his
boundaries. Well, I did I just say one
thing? Oh, good. I understand what you're saying.
That's your opinion about the show and Myron's
take. Or I would say this about the
show. Our guests, we we respect totally. So
whatever whatever they say as a guest, for
example, you talk for a long time. I
mean, listen, I wanna chime in as well.
But say, you know what? You're the guest
while you speak. The point is, with the
show of me and Myron, whatever guys comes
on the show, their opinions, their actual, I
wanna say, mindset or for example, their ideologies
is on them. They talk. People know our
opinion, our stance, and things. And look, people
know he's he's Muslim, and he he does
his thing. It's more like, you know what?
She's she's a guest. She can talk. Pretty
much. Yeah. Especially in response to someone's question
because I caught that. There's a lot Islamic
community tried to come at me for that
and I was like, okay. Well, they don't
know the context that she was answering a
question and that's why it is. But you
know it is what But also it might
be that you didn't know that this is
how you should react because actually Islamically speaking
you've
got to respond to that. Like there's an
A in Quran that says
You know there's a verse that said if
people attack
the religion and the Ayat and the verses
of God
and you see them mocking it, don't sit
with them. People who basically
say that, you don't sit with them until
they speak about something else. Otherwise, you'll be
just like them.
No. I see. And that's where me and
you disagree because I'm okay with platforming people
that disagree with me. I'm I'm okay with
platforming someone like yourself who's a devout Muslim.
I'm okay with platforming someone that you disagree
with like a like a Zionist.
I platform
people even if I don't agree with their
takes. And I understand from a religious perspective
that can be seen as as haram, but
I'm not a religious guy. And my thing
is I think it's very important
to be able to platform and bring people
on with differing views. No. No. No. I
I I'm not against you platforming them. I'm
just saying the response to how you platform
them. Like, you can platform them, but respond
to certain things they say about Islam, religion,
prophets, you know. If someone attacked Jesus, like
someone came on and attacked Jesus Christ.
The same thing can be said. I would
say that that shouldn't be acceptable. Do you
get it?
Now they can do it, but I would
respond to them. That's what I'm saying. All
I'm saying is I would respond to them.
If someone came and said Jesus is this
and Jesus is that, I would get vexed
on that on that basis. I would have
to respond on that basis. Do you get
what I'm gonna say? So,
yeah, I'm not saying they don't platform them.
You can platform me like.
Alright, so I'll wait for the debate between
you and Sam Shimon. When's it happening?
I don't know. I never I never thought
a man of that kind of level,
was someone that should be on my radar
because I don't know how many even house
subscribers he's got. He's unqualified, untrained. I beat
his best friend who is much more qualified
and trained than him. So I don't know.
You just mentioned his name to me. No
one really
proposed that. I don't even think he called
me. I don't even know.
Okay. I I was looking to debate Tommy
Robinson,
you know, because you had him on your
show. You said you're gonna set that up.
Look, I'll debate anybody. It's Tommy Robinson. It's
always Ben Shapiro is the main guy. He
said he'll do it. But it's
only fair that someone,
you know, like myself
should debate someone like Ben Shapiro, bro.
Because how many years have I been in
the game? How many millions of views have
I amassed? Do you know know what I'm
trying to say? So why do I need
to get some yeah. I can I go
to the streets and talk to people like,
you know, Shamone or whoever it may be?
You know, I'm like, unholish moly and these
guys haven't got a problem. I've never actually
turned down a debate. I'm actually in a
park. I've been in a park 300 times
debating anyone who wants to debate me. I
go in the in the streets of London
bare chested. I come out and say anybody
who wants to talk to me can talk
to me, bro. And it's called speakers corner.
I come out and say anyone who wants
to chat to me, anyone who wants to
debate me. I've been there 300 times online.
There's videos of it. I've never denied a
fight and I've never denied a debate.
Tommy Robinson denied both. Tommy Robinson
because he's not my size I said bring
any heavyweight
in the world. I'll fight him. MMA rules.
So long as you fight a man that's
on your weight.
And then we have a debate afterwards.
So that it can be a conversational
and it can be a physical altercation.
We disagree.
You wanna put hands on me, I wanna
put hands on you in a physical and
legal manner. So let's put hands on each
other. If it's
dishonourable
that a man of my size
and my height 6 foot 7,
£275.
Yeah. Someone of my size. If it's dishonourable
that I'm gonna put my hand on a
small guy
then I'll fight anybody.
I opened it up for him. I said
anybody in dunya bro. In the world. Come.
And then we'll we'll get you an opponent.
He wasn't interested in that.
So when people propose new names for me
of this Shamone and this Shmole and this
and that. I've never said no to anybody
bro. I've never said I say yes too
much.
Just like some of those prostitutes that you
have on your show.
I always say yes.
Well not
that's funny.
We do bring a multitude of girls from
different obviously, the OnlyFans girls are the ones
that go viral, but we've had doctors on
the show. We've had lawyers on the show.
We've had law enforcement on the show. We've
had women that are professional. We've had Yeah.
I'm sure. I'm sure. But are they prostitutes?
Do you like would you do you go
in, like, to the directory and for prostitutes
and and just go, like, and call them
up and say, listen, we'll give you this
much money. Instead of doing a sexual act,
come on TV.
No. Never. Never. It's a lot like that.
How how did you get these, if you
if you don't mind me asking?
I mean, I have a team that does
it. So they they go ahead and source
different places, whether it's a college campus or
out and about or whatever. That's how we've
been able to get a a diverse pool
of women on. But also, they're not all
sex workers. They're not all young. Have degrees.
Some have real jobs. Some have or some
are mothers. We got a doctor on last
week. Yes. Some are we literally had a
specialist on last week that's a doctor that
does No. All sex workers. Yeah. Just need
surgery. To be fair. But that's a common
misconception is that we only bring OnlyFans girls
on, but we actually do bring a multitude
of different girls. Okay. So are there OnlyFans?
There have been girls absolutely that do OnlyFans.
Right? But we've also had a bunch of
women that are that work professional jobs. Every
panel that we have, there's a few women
on the panel most of the time that
do some type of professional work or or
educate or whatever because we try to have
it where we have a different
women from different walks of life on the
podcast. I think that's very important to bring
different perspectives.
But a majority are not only fans. Well,
I think you got the date on it,
Moe. What what is it? What's the percentage?
It'll pull it up on the side here.
Out of, 28100
from ages from 18 to 49, 46 different
US states,
325
different job titles.
And OnlyFans is one of them. So Yeah.
We've we've brought on a bunch. But I
I get it. Like, you know, it and
that's kinda what it is with our podcast.
It's like people look at the clips and
they kinda run with the narrative a lot
of times which I'm not blame blaming you.
I mean, obviously, it's a lot of content.
You're not gonna go through every 2 to
3 hour podcast, 2 times a day. It's
a lot. You know, it's it's a lot,
and I understand that, you know, you No.
No. I understand where you're coming from. I
understand where you're coming from. It's good that
you slipped up. It's good that it's a
very important point to clear up because I
think most people just think they're prostitutes, frankly.
Yeah. Maybe we should do dawah to them.
Maybe maybe we should actually speak to the
prostitute. Me and Ali Dawa, we're talking about
doing some dawah to the prostitutes.
On the clips. Yeah. The the loudest one?
Is the loudest crazy girls. Yeah. The girls
that are quiet that aren't quiet that They
don't get no one Yeah. No one hears
them talk because they don't talk. They're they're
like they're They're listening. They're listening. Processing it.
And then after the show, they'll be like,
oh, we agree with you. Like but they
don't wanna say it on the show because,
you know, like I said, you know, women
tend to be more scared of, you know,
being exiled than men. Right? Like, for us,
like, being a coward is a problem. For
them, being a coward is not a big
deal. It's actually when there's makeup. So they
might they won't speak up during the show
but unfortunately, those girls never get light. The
crazy ones do that, you know, are the
sex workers or whatever.
What what we were talking about something I
was gonna mention before this.
What topic were we on just right before?
Oh,
his story, him getting No. No. No. No.
Just literally just now before the Religion?
No. Damn it, man.
Okay. That's that's fine. Should we,
reach out? I think we got TK announced
too. Yeah, we do. So we'll wrap up
here in a little bit. I'll I'll read
these chats real fast.
We got what? We got, say, 13? No?
14 k y'all in earmesh? I'll tell you
guys.
Between Rumble and YouTube,
we have,
okay.
Wiping goes,
Wiping goes No. What the hell? No. No.
Bro. What the *? No. No. Not today.
Okay. So he says, the trinity isn't a
contradiction.
Godhead has 3 distinct persons, father, son, holy
spirit. Godhead is a being, a person and
beings are distinct completely,
logical, other, Cloud trying to use logic to
explain the nature of supernatural being SMH.
Yeah. So this distinction between person and,
person and essence, yeah? Who made this distinction
and for and why? So for example is
this distinction found in the Bible? You won't
find this distinction is made in the Bible.
This distinction is made by church fathers who
try to reconcile
the idea of the Trinity. People like Augustine
for example. Augustine
who's a 5th century 4th century
writer
He
made these kinds of decisions. She had a
whole book called De Trinitatis.
Yeah like multiple
volumes. And they all recognise the problem. Yeah.
They all recognize the problem with the father
being God, the son being God and the
holy spirit being God. So to try and
solve the contradiction
they said yeah but it's one essence but
3 different persons. There's a difference between uzia
and persona. That's what they said. But the
first question therefore is
is this a biblical distinction?
No. It's not a biblical distinction. This kind
of philosophical distinctions are there. Number 2, it
doesn't even solve the problem Because you've got
3 unique distinct
centers of consciousness.
So if the father has a center of
consciousness, the son has a center of consciousness,
The holy spirit has a center of consciousness.
That's 3 distinct entities that we're talking about.
And each of them individually are God. So
the father is God. The son is that
the father is God. The son is God
and the holy spirit is God. Yet despite
me holding 3 fingers up to this camera
right now.
You want me to believe that this is
1.
I'm saying that if this is 1
then I'm losing my mind.
Then I'm no longer I'm no longer operating
on a logical paradigm.
Either that
or what you're saying is illogical and I
go with the latter.
Okay. But again,
like I said earlier,
because as a man,
logic isn't everything.
Right? God, because God is God. That sounds
like something a bimbo would say though. No.
No. That sounded like a bimbo, like an
emotional bimbo, like logic is never a thing.
You speak to her, you give her facts
and she'll just say like, you know, logic
ain't anything. But you're you're you're putting
on guard restraints. You can't do that. I'm
just saying that argument there.
Yeah well I'm saying this I'm not putting
on God restraints. I think that if you're
saying God is limited that will be putting
God on God restraints. If you're saying God
is a man there's no
clearer way of putting restraints on God but
to call him a restrained being.
I mean
who is the one who's putting restraints on
God? The one who is saying unrestrained, unrestricted,
unlimited
or the one who's saying in fact
he is a man who is God
Which means his restraint is limited. Come on.
We all know the answer to this question.
So what I'm saying is
if you wanna do away with logic
then you can't have a conversation with anyone
about anything. You should close down fresh and
fit and say that we have decided to
close down fresh and fit because we have
decided there's no such thing as logical truths.
And so when the woman comes on the
bimbo comes on and the friend the talk
what's what's that thing called? That thing that
sexting.
Onlyfans.
That sexting Onlyfang. I don't know much about
this. I'm not it's not false piety. I
actually don't know about it. I've never been
on it. Okay. And so the OnlyFans woman
comes on and she starts talking about her
emotional arguments which are in contradiction
to logic. You can just accept
her arguments because the truth is relative in
that sense.
Because she what her truth is different to
my truth is different to 2+2 could be
different here in the different world. It could
be different there. It could be anything different.
So when when a transgender comes or a
woke person comes you can just say well
the truth is relative anything is fine.
See. Very good to be able to, bro,
but you like a context. The problem I'm
trying to reach you here is that, like,
ultimately,
I'm saying
man's hand, logic applies. But with God, it
doesn't apply. So you're putting logic onto God.
It's like, what are you doing? Yeah, well,
we've heard this argument before, bro. As I
said to you before,
logical is an expression that has come from
God. It's not something that is impinging on
his will. For a man, not for him.
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So no
no what what we're saying is that logic
is something that God has enforced upon everyone.
Do you get me?
For humankind, yes. Yeah. That's it. So we
have to operate on logic otherwise there's no
going forward in any discussion. Again, there's no
way. You're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm
just saying context here. Don't reply to God.
But okay, it's fine.
So God can God not exist?
He's God, he can do whatever he wants
to. So okay, so atheism could be true
in certain cases then. Yeah?
Is that what you're saying? What I'm saying
is is that you're telling me that because
God can be a man so that surely
God cannot exist can decide to take himself
out of existence, no? God created man, right?
So I'm assuming
maybe using logic here that if you create
a man, he can create a man in
his image, right? Okay, if God decide not
to be a God?
Do you know?
I didn't hear that. I didn't hear your
answer.
Can can God decide not to be a
God? No, I'm not gonna take himself out
of existence.
That question in itself
makes no sense.
Brother,
brother, come on man. So So you're telling
me that question makes no sense. But the
question that you've been asking, which is the
same thing you so God can be a
man because logic doesn't apply to God, but
God can't take himself out of existence.
Because that question doesn't make sense. No, obviously
it's satire. But what I'm telling you is
that like Okay, no, but bro, if he's
allowed to be a man, then he should
be able to take himself out of existence,
which you've agreed that he can. So then
in that case, atheism could be treated. Like
I said, he can do whatever he wants
to do. He's God. I can't I can
question his his judgment. I can't question what
he does. He made us in in his
image, but he's God through and through. He's
already Can God hooray a rock so heavy
that he can't lift?
See this argument again
again again. You're trying to put me in
this corner but God is limitless bro. I'm
not gonna question him. So sure if God
is limitless he can't be a man. Go
on. Is Jesus a liar?
Or is he a liar? Jesus never claims
to be God. Where did he claim to
be God? Where did Jesus say I am
God? So why do all the disciples
talk with him being the son of God?
What are they liars?
Son of God. Son of God is different
to God by the way.
Okay but we're talking about for example God
himself. Right? Say again.
Okay. So I'm just saying Uh-huh. One is
pointing towards him being,
right,
The son of god. Who son of what
does son of god mean? What does it
mean?
Son of god. God himself.
Son of God, God himself. So wait a
minute. When God's, when in the Bible it's
mentioned, yeah, when it's mentioned in in Matthews
that blessed be the peacemakers
for they shall be called the sons of
God.
Yeah. Blessed be the peacemakers. So any peacemaker
is a son of God. Is that a
ceremonial title or is that a biological title?
So it's a term used to define Jesus
but let me just go into a little
bit deeper here because Philippians 268
says make clear the full deity and human
humanity of Jesus Christ Sure. Who thought he
was in a form of God did not
count equality of God a thing to be
grasped,
but emptied himself by taking the form of
a servant being born likeness of men.
So he didn't come to earth as humble
being a man to us,
but in likeness he was God. So it's
a Yeah. Philip Philippians is not Jesus himself
speaking. That's a book of, by the way,
Paul. Yeah. So that's that's Paul. Paul, Paul,
by the way, never met Jesus. Just to
let you know, he never met him. So
you're giving me
the you're giving me the works of a
man who never met Jesus Christ. I'm asking
you where did Jesus himself say that stuff?
Did Paul meet Mohammed?
Pardon?
Did Paul meet Mohammed?
No. He didn't. And what's that got to
do with what we're talking about, though? But
but but again, I'm just telling you that,
like, just because I never met a person
doesn't mean I don't know about them from
other disciples.
Say that again. He's not a disciple. Paul
is not not Paul is not a disciple.
He didn't even he wasn't alive when Jesus
was alive. I'm saying all the accounts to
everybody that talk about Jesus Christ
when he was alive speak about him being
that person.
Being what?
The son of God.
Okay. What do you mean by the son
of God? Are they the son of God?
Like God himself on earth.
Okay. That that's that's not what the son
of God means in any ordinary language or
any terminological language. The son of God means
that it can either mean adoption or it
can mean biological son, begotten son.
So I'm asking you, what do you mean
by the son of God?
Well, in terms of this,
example right here,
like, obviously, we could be son of God
too. But the actual title for Jesus Christ
is king, Christ the Lord. So that would
be his fault. He was never king on
the earth, by the way. He according to
your narrative, according to the New Testament, he
was whipped by the kings and killed by
the kings. He's coming back. He was killed
by the kings but he'll be back.
He was killed by the kings according to
your narrative. He was never a ruler of
any polity.
He's coming back. So why should he be
called king even by your standard?
He was never king. No one called him
king. It's in the Bible. I didn't say
it. No, but no one called him king
from a political perspective. He wasn't a king.
He wasn't a sovereign of a nation. Well,
in their eyes, definitely not.
Sure. They yeah. So what does it mean
to be king? What does it mean?
I'm trying to make the argument here that
you're How can be crucified?
How can a king say,
God, God, why have you forsaken me? He
died for our sins.
I understand what you're saying, but how can
a king, okay who's a sovereign be put
in a position like that asking God to
help him?
Well again So in what sense is the
king? I'm not trying to dictate how God
moves. I'm just telling you and especially history
itself, what happened, him saying to to to
people say, listen, you know what? My father
put me in this position to save you
guys.
Here's what it is. I'm not arguing that.
I'm just saying like you're saying that God
has he doesn't have any limits at all.
That's what I'm saying.
He lured himself to become Yeah. I'm I'm
I'm making the argument that God doesn't have
any limits and that if God were to
become a man or to not exist that
that would put a limitation on God. Do
you get it? If
God cease to exist that is the ultimate
limitation because there is no God then.
If you've accepted that God cannot exist
then atheism can be possible in certain contexts.
So what we're talking about here bro?
You're telling me that okay. A rock existing
okay.
What right now?
Which is basically he died.
Pardon?
He died for sins. That's history.
Correct. That's not history. That's your history. That's
a 2,000 year old history, which is contradictory.
There's even pardon? Where's his body then?
Where's his body? Yeah. Oh wait hold on
hold on. Do you think that everybody that
lived on the earth 2000 years ago we
have their bodies and we can identify them?
No but someone of that stature and that
prominence.
Yeah it's that's not an argument that's called
an argument from silence. That's definitely that's called
an argument from silence. So it's not where's
his body that's not We both believe in
an ascension. The Muslims believe in Jesus was
ascended
and also in the Bible it's mentioned that
Jesus was ascended. That's why we both believe
he's alive now actually. So we don't believe
that he was dead. Yeah. That's the first
thing. The second thing is
in terms of the crucifixion
and resurrection
we are talking about
an alleged history which is by the way
contradicted because you have early accounts
you have early accounts for example in the
Talmud which is a Jewish
book saying that Jesus wasn't crucified but instead
he was stoned.
What you call the Babylonian Talmud is mentioned
that he was stoned.
Other early accounts
of the Gnostics, they mentioned that he was
substituted
in fact. So you have early accounts
from different histories
that say different things about what happened to
him on the cross.
So if it was so clear like you
say then how come we have primary source
material
from different places
that have contradictory information about how he died
or if he died even?
Can you answer that? Well again I wasn't
there and Okay so I so how imagine
this imagine if he wasn't there so I'm
saying to you imagine this imagine God is
gonna put people in hell
for 2000 year old history
which
has contradictions in it. So for example look
here.
If you did I agree. Pardon?
I agree. You're right. Yeah. So imagine this
imagine you've got a history exam. Yeah.
And and there's a there's only one question
on the history exam. The history exam says
the following. It says did Jesus die for
your sins?
Did Jesus die on the cross? Was he
resurrected? Two questions. Was he what did he
die on the cross? Was he resurrected? Which
is the whole point of Easter.
Yeah? There's 2 questions on history exam.
I say no. I click on both things
and I have academic reasons. I've just cited
them based on historical
information. Primary source information. As I said to
you, Babylonian, Talmud, diagnostics and so on. I
have historical information. I say
that 12 no I don't believe he was
crucified or resurrected or any of that stuff.
So that means because I have this view
of history
as a historian or academic or otherwise
that now I must spend
my entire afterlife
and eternity
sizzling, burning, cracking,
I
I must be eternally
damned, doomed,
destroyed
in a hellfire
Forever. This is not a religion brother that
makes any sense.
Already we've spoken about 3 in 1 and
1 in 3. That's number 1.
And number 2, we've spoken about this idea
of the crucifix you brought up. And I'm
I'm telling you on both accounts
these things don't make sense. And if you're
sincere brother. I'm saying to you it's Ramadan
for us. Let me say this to you.
If we're sincere about the situation, honestly
there's only one solution. Which is to believe
there's only one God that is the creator
of the heavens and the earth.
That is not begotten.
That is not does not beget. Does not
have children, he doesn't himself, he's not a
child of anybody.
Yeah. That there's nothing like him. He's the
all powerful one. He's the all knowing one.
He is the one who wills anything that
he wants to will.
That's the God that we should believe in.
That's what's gonna give you power and strength.
Strength. As a man on a fresh and
fit podcast, what's gonna give you power and
strength is believing that the most powerful one
is your Lord. Not the one who quote
unquote humble himself and died on a cross
and hung a weak. Because when you attach
yourself to weakness you become weak.
And when you attach yourself to the ultimate
strength you become strength.
You become strong. And that's why we have
a saying in Islam, says
There's no strength and power except with God.
The all powerful one. The all the all
strong one.
So what I'm saying to you is
look into Islam properly, brother. Because I think
hopefully I've I've I've planted the seed into
your heart today by looking at the key
doctrines of Christianity
and showing you how nonsensical they are on
an ordinary analysis for a lay person. It
does not require a scholar.
It's just
easy to see
that these things don't make sense brother. And
what makes sense is that there were prophets.
Abraham, Moses, Jesus
believe that all prophets they came for one
thing and one thing
only. To tell people to worship 1 God
and to do good by their fellow man.
That's why they came. To worship the God
the creator of the heavens and the earth.
The universe
and then to do good by the fellow.
That's what we believe as Muslims. That's what
Islam is. That's what it
I appreciate
the knowledge, the feedback. Yeah. Yeah. Respect that.
Thank you very much, Fresh. Thank you. I
will say this is not weak though. He's
very strong.
But listen, I'm not a debater. I just
wanted your opinion on these things here and
your actual, which I appreciate as well. And,
yeah. Let's, continue.
No. I appreciate that. Appreciate that. Let's just
look at the question that that came to
us was a Christian Christianity related question. So
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Thank you, bro.
Appreciate that. That. Okay. Please. Because we got
a, we got TK and Allison, and we're
a little bit behind. Next time I'll I'll
I didn't realize that you guys were gonna
have a whole full on debate about Christianity
versus Islam. I'll I'll, Shoot. I'm a comedian.
I just wanna be like
just let's sit in the beta, bro. Fresh
versus a job is a goal we all
waited for. Fresh, you gave the best, defense.
God gives logic. Not hijab. Okay.
And this looks like it's split here. Excellence.
Some people will grow with hijabs, some people
will grow with fresh. Excellence advice, a hijab
from a Muslim viewer. You were in right
on an FNF show but are condescending and
arrogant. It's embarrassing. They're, tired of you. Muslims
are respectful and non arrogant. Respect to all
people. Love. Excellent said that. I mean No.
He he gave his his opinion on what
you saw. That's fine. And
to to be fair, bro, like, if you're
watching the show without watching it in full
context, you don't see everything. How how would
he know?
Yeah. You know? Well, I mean, this the
thing is many of your bimbo guests were
gonna consider consider you guys to be arrogant.
It's just that when you when you make
an argument with force,
there's always gonna be people that take offence.
Do you get what I'm trying to say?
And usually that's the last card resort for
someone who doesn't have anything to say about
something or hasn't got a logical response. They
will just say, oh you're they will go
for the meaner argument. Oh for the disposition
argument. Oh your disposition wasn't to my liking.
I'm not here to entertain
anybody. If I wanted to entertain any any
of the guests, I'll I'll make a a
freak show. I'll do some some funny things.
I can do that as well. But you
know, if if if someone doesn't like my
demeanor, of all due respect, I don't care.
Like, you know what I'm trying to say?
Who the hell? I mean, this person is
probably a Pornhub addict. You know, what's that
thing they're called?
The OnlyFans addict. Do you get what I'm
trying to say? You know, this guy is
probably eating pork noodle now because he's by
himself and he's one of the people that
has been on Tinder for all this time.
Can't find the date. He's coming to the
champ, and he wants us to ask the
champ, talk to jab
about arrogance and demeanor.
Come on. Come on. I I will say,
Hijab, I did see your video on, porn
and how to, think about it and was
a very good breakdown of what you should
do and what it really is, what you're
lacking when you do that. So that was
a very good video.
Well, thank you. Those here, crew and I'll
just fly through these. Yep. Use logic, please,
the hell, l, burp, grind once, so once
Moses went,
out to take sorry I got out of
my vision. Out to take a bath and
put his clothes over a stone and then
the stone ran away with his clothes. Moses
followed the stone saying, my clothes, oh, turn
on my clothes, oh, stone on my Allah.
Moses has got no. Okay.
Okay.
We read that one already. Okay. Here's some
more more ads. Okay. Jacosta says, Jaffna, shots
of the show with the prostitutes' comments is
the arrogance that turns people off. Secondly, the
Quran doesn't have direct quotes from Jesus either.
So your gospel
argument is futile. Okay.
W jab cooked this to Kufar.
Sticking bro. Oh, there you go. W vasectomy
l religion. Okay.
W, Christians working at the club. That's Nico.
Again, any of you go in with potter
goblins?
Yeah. I thought you're gonna you're gonna get
a good idea, bro. Okay.
Well, dig it, bro. Okay. Back I don't
care about you about you fresh. Okay?
Is that it? Oh,
the 3 fingers belong to one hand. Your
logic is not sound. Okay. That was in
response to 3 fingers thing. Okay. 3 three
fingers belong to one hand, but I've got
5 fingers on that.
So there are 5 persons in the 20th.
Go ahead. Yeah.
What else do we got here? That's it?
Oh.
There's more. Law of relativity is a mathematical
law. Einstein was famous for this. Okay.
And then we got
debating God and religion is not quite right
because God simply says the wisdom of man
and meaning debaters is foolishness in the eyes
of God. You can't read your own book
and use it to confirm the book itself
and to disprove another religious book.
Okay. I clipped good I clipped the good
moments,
Myron.
Chris okay. That's from Ryan, l o g.
Alright. And then, Mr. Zapata says, Jesus claims
to be God. Matthew 223,
John 858, Exodus 314, Matthew 112, John 14
1 dash 7.
Okay. That's what he said.
Alright. The need for truth. Isn't it good
to dispense advice for a person who lives
a different lifestyle than yours that's best for
them? WFNF?
Dean for Truth. Okay. And then say Christ
is King Fresh. There is power in the
name. Jesus, gang. Shout out. Yeah. So it's
split here. We got a lot of, like,
you know, obviously there's Muslim viewers. There's Christian
viewers. They're gonna
have things here. And then, someone else's,
Christ is King. Okay. Is that it?
Okay.
Lucky bombs this. Did you have a debate
with Jay
Dyer? Jay Dyer? Who's that? I don't know
who that is.
And then he dropped throwing shots at the
show no. We're down already. Oh. W f
and f, w Tate. Thanks, d g build.
W Myron Fresh, stand on business. Christus King.
Okay. And then Waylo. So if Jesus is
God and he died for our sins, then
you believe that not only God can die,
in addition to that he died at the
hands of his own creation.
Also the bible says god is not a
man. Okay?
Sharpshooter, bro, I tried to send y'all someone
who breaks down the bible but it was
blurred,
Hajab, you are wrong. Okay?
100 women who are experienced care more about
a man's sexual performance
than is love for her. That's why men
should sleep around before getting serious. That is
I mean,
in in in some way, that is, freight
telling because I mean, yeah. I'm I didn't
go into all the weeds of it, guys,
because obviously that wasn't the purpose of today's
show, but I see your perspective. Yeah.
Hey this is from Sonicast. Hey Mohammed, are
certain men exempt from the rule of having
a maximum of 4 wives? Also, are boxers
like Devin Haney exempt from Ramadan if they
have to train for a fight? Not a
bad question. Cool.
What do you think, Hijam?
No. I mean, he wouldn't be exempt if
he has to train for a fight. So
he should do what, like, a lot of
these other guys do and come outside of
Ramadan and fight outside like in Khamzat and
Islam al Khachab and a lot of these
khabib famously he didn't none of these guys
used to fight
or still do fight in Ramadan. So that's
just something they can do.
The second question is about what was it?
What's the first one? The other one was,
can you pull it back up?
Oh, is there a rule, is are certain
men exempt from the rule of having a
maximum of 4 wives?
No, not really. Not today. That's the max,
right? Not today. Yeah. Not today. Well, I
mean, obviously, one can marry and divorce.
Okay. And then marry again and divorce again
and marry again and divorce again. But I'm
not saying that that's something that, you know,
because marriage in Islam is a very easy
process, by the way. Yeah? Like if someone
wants to get married, it's not like this
whole ceremony and stuff. You don't need to
do any of that. Really just to avoid
zina, it's a 5 minute process
really. Like I'm only saying this because obviously
my run, we want to keep you safeguarded
and chased as well.
Which is the fact that for example if
you have a Muslim or Christian or a
Jew because Muslims are allowed to Muslim men
are allowed to marry Christian women or Jewish
women. Muslim women are not allowed to marry
Christian men or Jewish men only Muslim men
but Muslim women sorry Muslim men are allowed
to marry Christian and Jewish women. So say
for example you met a Christian woman or
a Jewish woman, yeah, or a Muslim woman
and you were to marry her, all you
would do is you get 2 witnesses
and
2 witnesses of 2 male men witnesses, male
witnesses, yeah, who are Muslim,
that they
would effectively
be the witness what you're saying. Consent is
given on both sides. You'd give her a
dowry.
The whole process will take 5 minutes
and if her father gives permission according to
3 schools of thought he's required. If not
then according to one school of thought he's
not even required.
So really and truly it's a 5 minute
process and you don't need to fall into
what would be considered to be a major
sin in the religion of Islam.
Which is to commit zina,
which is extramarital or premarital fornication or whatever
it is, when marriage is made so easy.
And say you don't want to be with
the woman anymore, you don't want to be
with her anymore, then you discuss and then
you can divorce. It's not like Catholicism.
It's not like Catholic religion where you're trapped
into the marriage and so on, and that,
you know, is death to us part. No.
If you don't wanna be with her, you
don't have to be with her. So yeah
you can marry up to 4 wives, you
can have 4 wives at one time,
and if you don't want the wife then
you can divorce her and you can get
a new one. That's what can you can
do.
Okay.
What else do we got here? That's it?
Cool.
No this is great. I definitely,
I had a bunch of questions here,
Muhammad, that we didn't get to get to
because we talked about the other stuff. But,
we'll definitely bring you back and I wanna
ask, more questions about the religion itself,
so that you get a better understanding of
Islam because obviously there's a lot of negative
stereotypes that I wanted you to kinda debunk,
but we didn't have time today, unfortunately. Where
can I find you, bro? Yeah. But, yeah,
where can I find you? Yeah. So you
can just put my name, Mohammed Hijab, on
YouTube.
As you mentioned, it's quite a big channel.
It's quite easy to find.
And, you'll see if you wanna see more
debates. I've done lots of debates with Christians,
lots of debates with atheists. That's something that
me and Fresh and everyone else would agree
with. And we've done a lot of gender
debates. Like, I've done lots of debates against
feminists as well. Like,
Before Fresh and Fit and Red Pill, by
the way,
I had
a ton of things about feminists. I was,
you know, really
ravaged, if you like, by the community and
by outside the community because I used to
be talking directly about feminism and stuff like
that.
So there's also stuff if you wanted to
have arguments against feminism. I've done lots and
lots of work
on that as well.
No. That's awesome, man. I'd like to bring
you back to talk about Islam, the religion,
and kinda educate the people. And then also,
I think I have someone in mind, that
would be a great person that you could
talk to who is an orthodox Christian, Andrew
Wilson. I think that'd be a great conversation
between the 2 of them and we could
set it up. Yo. Yo. Real quick. You
know what you should do, bro? Since these
prostitutes are on the show, why don't you
talk about virtual after hours? So so Do
you have a virtual after hours? So Have
him on the pod? Tell these 0 fours
any feminists, what do you need to hear
from over there? They can sit right here.
Tell them what's going on. That'll be funny.
That'll be funny, bro. That'll be funny, actually.
What do you think?
Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you want. I'm I don't
have any problem. I'll speak to anyone you
want me to speak to, brother.
Alright. Yeah. We'll we'll set something up like
that in the future, man. I think it'll
be I think it'll be great. But we
definitely I definitely wanna have you back on
again after,
maybe after Ramadan because I know it's a
holy month and, you know, you you you
know, fasting is not easy.
But yeah, we can definitely do it. But
guys, check him out.
His YouTube is huge. I think one of
the biggest Islamic channels on YouTube.
Go check him out. And, bro, it was
it was great to have you. And and
just real quick Or I think the pleasure
is all mine, bro, honestly. Christians and Muslims,
like, we do believe in in God. Yeah.
And I do believe as well that, like,
we can disagree to, you know, or agree
to disagree. That's real. But at the same
time, like, we shouldn't hate each other. You
know what I'm saying? No. Of course not.
Of course not. Of course not. Of course
not. Of course not. Of course not. Yeah.
Of course not. Look, we're all one community.
We're all one family. If you guys need
anything from me as well, then I'm
here. I appreciate it, bro. Alright, guys. You
guys take it easy. We'll catch you guys.
We're gonna be back with TK Kirkland here
in the next 5 or 10 minutes, man.
Sorry we're behind schedule.
Mohammed, thank you for coming on. We'll catch
you guys. Peace.
Thank you. Take care. Don't we all get
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