The Modernist Movement Part 2
Channel: Jamal Zarabozo
File Size: 20.02MB
we want to talk about the influence of
Java. Today we'll talk about the influence that this movement has today. And in particular, I'm going to stress
the situation in the United States.
Why I stressed the situation United States, because you're not
going to Well, next time Shama will begin a critique of the of the modernist movement
and discuss any what, what is good or what is wrong, or what is bad about this, this moment
was the critique will take actually more than one lecture, because there are and in general, whether we're talking about Ronnie or talking about any field even
any not fields not specifically related to Islam, there are basically four sources of mistakes in any field.
The first source is when the person does not have the intention to reach the correct solution. And in other words, he has the incorrect intention is good, his intention is not to find the truth, but it is not easy to find something else. Well, as I mentioned that there was some opening points that I mentioned last time that are
rather important to keep in mind. And as I mentioned, last time, I'm not going to talk about the intention of anyone who I might mention, in fact, some cases as we discussed last time, sometimes the intention of the person is very good, but what he does actually is destructive.
So, the first, the first reason that maybe Person person to to an incorrect conclusion is if his intention is not sincere, or this inshallah we will not discuss that point with respect to the modern.
The second reason is, this is when the premises or the fundamental assumptions or the philosophy that someone is believing in is wrong.
And if the fundamental assumptions or the every science has its own philosophy, the philosophy behind the science is wrong, also, you get to the wrong conclusion.
So a lot of money a movement, actually, they have specific premises for specific assumptions that they make. And inshallah we'll have to discuss these assumptions to see whether or not they are correct or not, if the premises are the fundamental assumptions or the philosophy is wrong, and also the conclusions will be most likely wrong.
Third, the methodology might be wrong. And even if the assumptions are correct, the methodology by which you go to solve a problem or find an answer to something might be wrong. So after discussing their fundamental assumptions, we will then discuss their methodology.
And the last reason by which people might come to the wrong conclusion, when they are ignorant of the specific evidence or the specific details of something.
And also with respect to the lockean idea, that is also the case that sometimes they they will make statements that in which at least it seems that they are ignorant of some points, which are related to that question that they're discussing. So this critique of the modernist thinking, as I said, it will take actually more than one lecture because we'll be covering all of these different areas.
And after that,
we'll come comparison of the Afghani amendments with the, with the beliefs or with the position about listen to
the two groups will be compared. And then finally, we'll get the danger of this moment, why we should be aware of this moment, and what this moment might lead to.
less time, we discussed the the history of the movement, and just to
just to give some conclusions that we made less than First of all,
we said that, in fact, this is not a new movement. This is in fact, a very old movement, and it has its roots, even something before Islam.
The real roots of this movement, the modernist movement,
is really in the grip of the Greek rations, or aka Nia, of the Greek philosophers. And this thinking this Greek philosophy was developed within this dynamic framework by the group known as the auto dealer. And we discussed last time how the water dealer gave an Islamic flavoring
to some of the and some of the Greek Greek thoughts. And this modernist movement actually is, is really bringing up the same kind of thinking once again, and also we mentioned that time that
it is in fact, again, it is the Muslims responding to something of a foreign culture and he trying to respond
Something which is foreign to Islam by trying to bring it, bring it into Islam. And we mentioned that this happened before, when the Muslims first encountered the Greek works and European society. And then it happened again at the turn of the century and before the turn of the century, and we discuss the development of the modernist thinking, in Austin, Judaism and Christianity and also in Islam. And we gave some of the
some of the tower some of the points or reasons, I mean, some of the conclusions and some of the ideas of some of the founders of the modern movement, such as the suicide and the fun, Mohammed, Abu,
and others of that nature, and we discussed them last time. Nowadays in the Muslim world,
I need the students of the students of these founders the second or the third generation of orthodontics, Ian are appearing and are becoming more and more influential among the Muslim Ummah, there might be some differences, in conclusions in minor details between this group that exists now, and the original founders of this moment, but their way of thinking or their methodology, and their fundamental assumptions, in fact, are the same as what we found in the last century that we, that we discussed last time. And one of the things that may lead to an increase in the influence of this movement has to do with what's happened recently, in some parts of the Muslim world, for example,
the fighting between Iraq
and the United States. And this led some people
to come to the conclusion that United States is not an enemy of Islam.
And this, this idea, we have to be very careful about. Because the time the minute you forget that the coupons are your enemies, then you might start thinking that, okay, we are not our enemies. Maybe they're their friends, they are friends, and therefore we can take advice from them, we can look to their way of life, and we can start to to borrow from them.
And this way of thinking, as I said, it's very dangerous. And we found it, especially right after the war, right after
the Americans defeated Iraq. And we find many people talking many brothers, and he talking about, actually how America came to the aid of the Muslim.
And this is something we have to we have to correct this end from the beginning, America will never come to the end. Unless it is in their own interest. They came, they came to the aid of a certain people because that was in their interest, you're not coming to help them
with some people and to begin to forget about this point. And even this the this more recent movement
concerning the peace,
90 having peace with Israel, and having a peace agreement with Israel. And also this is any kind of the same kind of thing Israel before 2030 years ago, you cannot imagine that they are to come down and say that, okay, maybe it's valuable except their existence, and we'll come to peace. Because at that time, they said, and they realize it's the enemy of Islam, it is the enemy of the earth. But this idea is spreading this, in fact, maybe the westerns are bad, maybe they're not really our enemies, maybe we can work with them. And this is what has led to this.
And it is recent movement to have a piece that
you find in lots of the recent literature that said you find this kind of thinking that can in the West isn't that bad. Or maybe we can look to the west, for example, the the May 15, through 21st 1991 issue of the magazine, animal materialism agenda. And it was filled with this, this kind of thinking just kind of not
one of the writers, Mohammed or Marathi wrote that has got to be her latest conference. And it has got to be the western Western civilization. And he didn't say Western technology, okay, technology, maybe you can say, although economists,
what economists will dispute you that technology is value free or any has any relationship to the civilization. But when you say when you say that civilization, to say that the western civilization is not covered, and this is in fact, the big theme is because and if you look at what Western civilization is all about, actually, it is based on the fact that God has no nothing to do with this world. If you want to believe in God, that's fine with you. That's fine. If you want to worship God, okay, go to the mosque and worship God. But God has nothing to do really with guiding us in our affairs. This is what Western civilization is about.
Denial of the role of the Lord in an everyday living.
Besides that, also individualism and other aspects and it actually, in fact, and all of Western civilization is difficult.
But to this way of thinking, and put in this magazine, and in as it said, the whole magazine was the
Was of this nature. Yeah. And it is showing us that any once again, unfortunately, once again, like what happened during some of the martyrs he does what happened during the time.
Once again, yeah, they were being fooled by outward things. And we're not seeing the reality of things. We're not seeing the reality of the West. And when we get to this position, when we say that Western civilization is not covered, then this means is okay for us to take whatever we want from Western civilization.
And the same, the same.
gelatin, Magellan the same issue. Muhammad Ali prayed to the Western society. And he said, it is the most advanced civilization.
And it is the most advanced civilization.
Any, again, we are perfect. So how do we judge the civilization just on the basis of GNP, gross national product just on the basis of economic issues young, a civilization that doesn't really believe in God.
And its civilization, which is in many a Muslim writer, and a respected scholar, he's going to say, this is the most advanced civilization ever was.
And he said this, yeah, this kind of thinking,
unfortunately, spreading it throughout the Muslim world. I mean, talk to some brothers, you can see it. And we have to understand and what what is the basis for this way of thinking? And what is the methodology of this way of thinking, what are the conclusions
that this way of thinking
and it will lead us to, and even some of the the Muslim movements and many of the leading scholars, when you go to, for example, different conventions, even here in the United States, you feel and you can hear in the speeches, that they're being affected by this new movement, or actually, it is a type of westernization.
And if for example, the husband throw one cello next time, I will quote her from probably in some detail.
Today, inshallah, I will not
even Russia, Russia, Russia, no, no, she in the early 70s, he wrote some excellent articles about Western civilization, and how the West has entered the Muslim man, and has created an elite or a group of people who are ruling and Muslims that have nothing to do with Muslim society, and has nothing to do with Muslim culture. That was in the early 70s. More recently, he said, in one speech, he said, norito Islam in America,
and if we want an American Islam,
what another lecture he said that the United States is much more Islamic than any of the Muslim countries, or any of the Muslim areas.
And he to look at the West in this way to look in the West and in this fashion. And if this is
any, this is something that will lead to actually what the lasagna movement one, lasagna movements basically is saying, that look at the situation now look at the West's for one thing, or look at the world as a whole, the world as a whole is changed. And therefore we have to change Islam to meet. And in the changes that
you need to make to make Islam advanced, make Islam civilized, you can actually hear them say that they're not talking about Muslims. And if you say that about Muslim, maybe you can say that, depending of course on what you mean, what they're saying, we have to make the firm civilized.
And is there a calling for the deed or or changing of exam, making a new making a new Islam, and as I said, unfortunately, many scholars today, and much of the media, for example, many of the writers will code next time such as the Tamil wedding, and Mohammed Ahmed, Mohammed Allah, and he was forced to sit next to me in some detail. And
they also are spreading this kind of idea. Also, Delhi, and recently also use of Apollo is always showing me many of these traits in his recent lectures. And at this point, by the way, I disagree with the shift.
So my role then is broken up is that he said that these are the characteristics of lasagna moments, and he brought about 10 or 15 characteristics. And he said, yeah, this little dessert, he has some of them and a little dessert, he doesn't have some of them. That is not necessary for someone to be automatic to have all of these characteristics. The only thing is you take the definition of authority, which is that this lamb or the religion, whether it is Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, as we talked about that time. The idea is that any Islam or the religion has to change because of changing things, because of changing society. And there's no eternal truths in the religion and
everything is relative, which was true during the time of the Prophet Muhammad. Why did the Quran or Hadith and is no longer true today, if someone has this approach, and you see it in his writings, then his authority whether or not he agrees with everything that
the Laconia movement
any some of the leaders have stated or not.
And that's the situation that we see unfortunately, throughout the world.
was taken shala. Today, I'm not going to discuss any in the Muslim world as a whole, but I want to concentrate on the United States. So we have some idea of what is going on
in the United States and genre, because I'm sure that most of you are familiar with what's going on in the rest of the Muslim world. But some of you unfortunately, may not be that familiar with exactly what is going on in the United States.
First of all, if you remember,
last time, I mentioned that the Jewish modernism, or the Academie Rania movement among the Jews.
It began in Germany, and in Europe, but did not really spread very much.
But when it came to the United States, this is where it found its new home, and it spread quite quick. And there are some reasons for that. And we discussed those reasons. Lesson. similarity is the case with the lasagna movement. Among the Muslims, it is probably much stronger, and much more dominant here in the United States than anywhere else.
In the Muslim world. And any there are, there are a number of reasons for that.
As I continue
to change the whole topic to
realize the importance.
And one of the one of the reasons that the lasagna movement is able to spread so much in the United States, as First of all we do not really have many explores, or many qualified scholars to refute them.
And if someone comes new to Islam, doesn't really have much of an idea about them. If someone comes to him with a brand, that is them, and he trusts that person, he will forward if you see some nice publication looks nice. And the pictures are nice, the printing is nice, like and be sure
that if you find any something like that, he will he will believe in and if above that, and he goes established, the only Islamic organizations, even promote these things will promote these people who have these ideas. And he will, he will believe in it. And we do not have the scholars, at least the number of scholars that we need to have the knowledge to refute some of the arguments and some of the claims.
And worse than that, unfortunately, is it even those scholars who have the knowledge, some of them want to talk to you, they have the idea that Yanni for the sake of doubt, and we don't want to confuse them, we don't want to make the issue worse, for the sake of Galliani let them
work and we don't want to criticize each other.
And this actually is wrong. Because you won't, as you will see. And by the time we finished this whole thing about the lasagna? And is there a calling to something which is maybe any
close to being outside of Islam.
And if you take their conclusions. I mean, if you take their arguments to the logical conclusion, as Unfortunately, some Americans have done when they become Muslim.
And they take the attorney arguments. And they take them to their logical conclusions, which is beyond what any of themselves do
any they come to a situation where in fact, it's never nothing.
So they either live with them or they haven't established at a minimum. And then unfortunately, you'll see this a lot among,
among the Americans.
Another reason any, from visiting some, some of the most with this movement is quite popular.
It seems that another reason why this movement is strong in the United States is that it allows the Muslims from overseas to enter completely into American society and not be any distinguish one American.
And a lot Rania movements such as whoever you see, when we discuss some of their arguments, and even anyone, I present some things, you see that in fact, you can be out there on a TV just like any American have.
No problem with. So it allows the immigrants who only wants to remain Muslim, they want to say, I'm Muslim, I want to pray five times a day. But I don't want to be identified as Muslim. I don't want to be seen as a Muslim. I don't want really to practice the harsh things as Muslim, and it is this movement, or this man has allowed him
to remain Muslim.
By following the conclusions of Islam and also at the same time, the American who embraces Islam also doesn't have to change.
And he doesn't have to change. You can say I'm Muslim now, and he doesn't change
as the any one of the
Ronnie leaders nowadays, actually three of them wrote a book together together, put your Mind and Matter have gotten his brother, his name his husband,
Danny, they wrote a book about an fraternity with our American brothers who said to anyone anyone talking about their their center, which is one of the leading centers of the Australia movement, which is an Islamic Center, center of Southern California.
And it is said, When anyone comes to us and embraces Islam, we don't ask them to change any of their social habits, or to change their clothing or anything like that.
So it is a way to enter into Islam, and in fact, not have to change. And you can see exactly the same way or These are some of the reasons Yeah, some of the reasons why this movement is so strong in the United States and why it is, in fact, unfortunately, gaining
popularity. Another reason
is that if you look at the literature
that's available, and about Islam in the United States,
if you look at the leading so called scholars,
who gives the lectures and gives up sessions, and so forth in the United States, if you look at the institutions and organizations that exist in the United States, you'll find that almost all of them reflect
not not all of them.
I made sure to say almost all the many, many of them, let me put it this way. Many of them they reflect this kind of Astra Nia movement, and ultralinear thinking, for example,
I will take different topics.
And if you remember any those of you who were here last time,
you'll see I need the same kind of arguments that we mentioned last time, for example, with respect to the fear.
What's the number one to fear distributed throughout the United States, and English
is the value. What's number two?
I don't know what number two is, but one of the one of the other popular ones is Mohammed Essen.
And if we if we look at these, and I think before and the most important, I gave a lecture about which I discussed.
If you look, for example, the use of ad is
the most widespread theater in the United States.
With respect to a for example, heaven in hell, Jenna would not. He said, in fact that there's no such thing as heaven and hell. And it is just a state of mind. And he This is what we talked about last time, a lot of money and movements or lack of linear movements that we talked about, can you deny those things that the mind cannot see, or the mind cannot prove?
We talked about the last time that in fact, there's some things that Apple has no realm or has no right discussing, because it cannot prove it or cannot deny it. But for these people that are laughing in here, and also
not really a movement that often can prove it, then they deny.
For example, respect to Gen.
He also says that most likely the gen were some foreign people
and he not a separate creation, just pianism some foreign people with respect to and we mentioned that also this, Mohammed Abdullah, we talked about his views on that. He said Jim, and nowadays the microbes are written
with respect to jihad. It says jihad or fighting is only permissible and self defense
with respect to whatever he says, and in the modern day interest that you find in the banking system, this is not free, but this is halal. This doesn't fall under the
any of the principles of urban Quran.
Some of the, one of the second or one of the other popular systems of the forum is Mohammed, Mohammed Ali. Mohammed Mohammed Ali is called the enemy and is completed filled with the qadiani ideas. But we'll leave that for another. That's another topic
the other tafsir which is which is unfortunately someone I'm not sure who that someone is distributing this tissue throughout University, and they go to many watts now and they find maybe 20 or 30 of them.
This is a picture of Mohammed
Mohammed Asad. Some of you may know him.
He is originally from from Austria.
And he became he converted to Islam.
His name used to be Leopold, right.
And he wrote a book that was translated into Arabic. He wrote two books. They were translated to Arabic one is called the road to Mecca. And the other one is called Islam at the crossroads. And it is two books were written early in his life and they are actually good books.
But later in his life, he completely changed his life.
Later in his life he completely changed.
Well, if you look at his fear,
can you see exactly the moment actually almost exactly the beliefs inside of his to see for example with respect to Allah, He says the only thing we can say about Allah we cannot say what he is we can only say what he isn't.
And we cannot say that Allah even existence is existing.
We can only say that he is not something
and this is a classic Yanni approach. And he says For example, the
the expressions in the Quran for example about a lot of anger
what is pleasure? Or is love it's an all these meanings.
And he said we cannot say that Allah has anger or pleasure love these things anyone can see about
this as this Yanni you have to ask yourself when Mohammed Asad bred Gianni, what kind of God is the breed
is praying to a God that actually doesn't exist?
No attributes, has no
has no nothing.
And if any, and this unfortunately, as I said, this is one of the
one of the problems are
also with respect to not a desert of the prophets are the miracles of the Prophet also, and he denies them. And he flatly to the point that even says that the story is about the profits of all are not true. They're just stories.
It says that about the Quran, Allah subhanho wa Taala says that's what the Quran and he says in his Institute.
And he says For example,
He says about the story of Superman, he said because these stories were so deeply ingrained in the imagination of the people to whom the Quran addressed itself in the first instance these legendary accounts of Solomon's wisdom and magical powers had acquired a cultural reality of their own and therefore they were included in the put on other words you saying that because they believe them at that time? Although I put them in
as I said, this Jani this unfortunately this
this they said I don't know who but it is by home but it's been spread throughout the
throughout the United States
with respect to the theater of the
the the number one selling and the biggest and the best book in theater in English, it man broke his Translation by the way, it's my group is one of the leading
serrania movement was gonna believe
is his translation of Mohammed Hussain heckles. ciroc. Mohammed.
Have you just take the name of that book in Arabic language? There's something strange about the name of that book.
Have you ever seen another book about the Bahamas with that name?
And it's not Mohammed Russo was not even hired Mohammed. Some of it was in the morning. But it just had Mohammed and the reason that is if you read the book is trying to make Mohammed look he's trying to make the problem not just any one of us
nothing special about him. There was no much of that as electro neurology just the dream that he saw
and he's trying to make the problem homeless I tell him and his knowledge look like just anything that we mean that we made to the county giving the giving us the right actually to look to it sooner and say is that well honey for said about the people with the rain? They are adjourned we are adjourned look to the sooner the problems the system is a man or woman.
And unfortunately, I've met many people in this country will have that.
And in that way of thinking towards some of the problem homicides in them. And in fact, the sooner
the sooner in the in the English literature and in the in the lectures that are given in the United States is probably the most
what's gonna be
The greatest disadvantage is treated like it is not.
For example, the German By the way, in a lecture that he gave in this summer conference in Stanford about maybe three or four years ago, that he tried to prove that most of the Sooners not sure you're not part of the *tier and even those that are part of the *tier they're meant for very specific circumstance.
Well, also he has shown me On another occasion, he is the person who gives us the deposition. And I'll come back to some of them. Patel and I talked about another topic
that he is someone who has made lots of very strange statements about the about the headache of provinces in one time and he gave it to us and some people were discussing it with him the special was is this footwork, any base
On the verse in the Quran which contradicts the Hadees explanation of the Quran, his answer was sometimes the Quran is clear, and we just have to throw that away.
This is one of the characteristics
of the atonia when we talk when we talk later about their methodology, and this is one of the ways by which
by which the the approach
also in the in that lecture that he gave in Stanford, the pros By the way, Jim, and by the way, I met to my dorm, and in the problem with him is the illuma Hades will call on me on how to live. He just takes that he doesn't know. And then have you in that lecture in about the seminar that he gave in Stanford four years ago, he recommended two books. And those two books say the exact opposite things about the sun.
And he said, Danny, if you want to know more about the sun, I recommend you read these two books and the ghanians recommending them as if they are with what he said in that lecture. Very interesting points, which for those who who took the class last year. He said the province of Silla made he had some done, like we discussed this point. And he was wrong
sometimes, and he was not corrected, Allah subhana wa tada did not correct.
Daniel, if this is the case, then we can take any some nuts of the problem common sense and then say, well, maybe this is one of those that I forgot to correct or I didn't think you'd say forgot, but did not.
might also is one of the famous
scholars of Islam in the United States, he taught for many years in the University of Chicago. Yeah, he blatantly says he agrees with them, especially to claim that most of the edits and positive delamar forms are fabricated, they are not authenticated.
Now we move on to
chapter two minutes.
By the way, this one of them
I've done that before
we move on to the area.
When the area took also Yanni we find lots of strange metabolism here. I'll just mention some of them.
Some of them, some people, they say that the there's no punishment for it.
And there's no proof that there's any punishment for it that is okay to buy a house on mortgage, any kind of insurance is helpful. And Some even say any kind of interest is heavily put your money in the bank and get the interest, it's okay.
This is an even more interesting one.
Like the one person who said
that it was okay for a woman who was menstruating
to pray nowadays, and is
shaking his head, he agrees
with the real for that, that, during the time of the problem, I'm assessing them, they did not have anything to catch the blood and keep it from dripping in the mouth. So nowadays we have, so therefore I need to be okay.
That he's forgetting this, if you if you if you familiar with Eddie, he'll know that the woman who has who's most harder. And sometimes they used to pray in the mosque, and they used to put a wall underneath her and he to catch the blood when it drops. And it just shows that there's not the blood dropping,
why the woman was menstruating. And also unfortunately, one of the leading one of the leaders of a big, large portion of Muslims in the United States, it says that it's okay for a Muslim man to marry a non Muslim man. And in order to get it maybe prove that point, I guess he married his daughter to a nun.
When it's of course, we talked about last time, that's one of the areas of the affinia one of the areas that Mohammed often talked a lot about.
And the other
deals with the situation or the role of women
in this level. And this is where we find Yanni
we find lots of interesting and he puts out lots of interesting things written and unfortunately any one of the things that the this movement, large linear movements is claiming and what they what they always spread, is it Yeah, there's a big thing. There's a big difference between cultural Islam and what Muslims do by culture and what is part of Islam.
And in essence, that's okay, because there are some things which are culture and some things which are essential to Islam. But the problem is what falls into what that's where the problem lies.
And they like to put lots of things into culture and take it away from his neck, especially when it comes to when it comes to when.
For example coke incidentally
As written a couple of books about the African, the liberation of women through Islam or something like Mohammed said, given to me my skin was less he was trying to write some papers about woman Islam. And he ordered these two books by
by Cocozza. He says, For example, and this goes also, by the way into their methodology. He says, for example, the woman can be a ruler.
And he says, and here's this proof, or here's what he said. He said, If anyone tells you No, he said, ask them for a hadith.
And said, inside Bukhari and Sahih, Muslim for more than one hub.
Now, the question itself, there's some problems with the question itself. And then as I said, when we talk about their methodology, we can discuss the problems with it. But the problem is this same author, and the reference to that book, he references a book called reschedule masovia, which is a collection of Hadith. And he says to the reader, that you should read this book, because many people, they just stick to a Muslim and there's other many other edits that we have to follow on live.
But when it comes to this question, he says, ask them for Hadith. And he promised her a Muslim and a given for more than one for more than once. He also says in that book, that it is okay for a woman to be a man for the men in prayer.
He says in that book that the Hadees about
the prophets, I send them said only because of the woman's
obligation to her husband, if you if he were to ask anyone to prospect anyone he would ask a woman to prospect to her husband, which is authenticated, he said, this head is fabricated. And here's the deal for that, again, this intervention methodology is deleted for that zip.
no bother. He also says that, regarding the base cover of the women, he said the base was not covered until at least 150 years after the Prophet stand.
And then he says about women praying in the mall.
He said women should pray every prayer in the mosque. And he said in his book, even the women during the time of the Prophet Muhammad said to them, he says they even used to pray a show and budget in the mall.
And he they even used to print a show. And
if you go to the editors, bonuses, and what will you find?
Any they only used to branch out and budget, because during that time, they could not be recognized by the people. That's what the editor that's what whoever the post has been and clearly says that we used to go just to raise our budget, because many of the time we cannot be recognized by the people who cannot see it. What he says even in the show's budget, they used to go and implying that all the other parents obviously you must know what he takes the ideas and the promises in them.
And in which the the woman is ordered to pay for stole, the woman was told that it's best for her to bring her house. And in fact, in the small compartment in house.
He said that the reason this woman I don't know where I have no idea where he brought this from, and he has, he has no
no footnote giving any evidence for this.
He said the reason that woman was told to pray in her house is because she didn't have decent clothing to go out to her house. So therefore you cannot use this. Have you
heard that this is one of the characteristics of a documentary a movement
that they come up with reasons for Hadith or verses of the Quran and say, well, that reason doesn't exist anymore or not generally,
with respect to women's affairs also,
we find as human but we also following and is the same,
the same pattern.
By the way, for example, he says no, you just the way he said it. He said there's recent evidence
showing what this when the politics in america is he was about 18 or 19 years old.
First of all, at this point isn't very important except for the fact that non Muslims, in particular, the West Wing may not like the fact that he was made to bump into them when he was when she was very young. Even though it's something we're taught them something any well known in the history of Islam.
And he is he and he cannot accept and therefore he says yeah, there's recent evidence. I don't know any would receive dividends that can be added to show that he was 18 or 19. Before. Before she made the problem comes
with respect to the heads of abubaker
and back the provinces and I'm saying that no people will prosper if the ruler is a woman.
It says First of all, this was in a lecture to non Muslims and Muslims about the position of women in Islam.
He said First of all, according to the scars of Hades is not acceptable as an area.
According to the scholars of any level back it up and if you don't
have the work, it is one of the top
And if you look as I did, I went through 15 books from the scores of headings discouraging, I'm not one of them said is not acceptable.
And in fact, we know that according to the schools, it is all of this
one also any showing his atonia any reflection, he also says about this hideous nanny that, that if you look to, for example, India under Indira Gandhi and even under Margaret Thatcher, he shows, this woman can roll and the people and
therefore, this must be not true.
We'll come back to them, we talked again about their their methodology and promises
with respect to also polygamy in Islam or marrying more than one wife. He said it is forbidden except under very certain very specific circumstances. Like for example, the wife cannot have any children, therefore, you can marry a second wife. And the problem with that is that and by the way, this is the same thing that Mohammed aku said and, and other people before that we talked about last time, and that is really some conditions that you did not find in the Quran, you do not find this hadith
with respect to for example, covering the face of the woman and whether you whether you believe
that the woman is obliged to cover the face or not. And whether you believe it or not, you cannot deny that it is something that existed during the time of Obama, and then and something that he approved. So it is assumed that it is an acceptable act in Islam, whether or not you believe it is obligatory, and to make fun of any sooner,
to make fun of any part of the deen actually is a part of what he has on many occasions. And he ridiculed those people who were on the base covering and saying that, in fact is not part of
Islam. And any, just to give
another example of the Muslim world, they were famous for one thing, one of their five points is a lump of metal when
ordering goods and eradicating, which meant what what to them means use for I need to make sure that people follow your opinion. And that's what we find anytime any of the halifa were from the larger data, as for example, during the time of Ramadan Hanban, and they use force to force people and to follow there there have been, well, the Annie is not exactly for. But remember, we went to one more to give a lecture and the Mark has two floors, the woman upstairs and the men downstairs. And they refuse to give a lecture. He refused to give a lecture until the woman were told to come downstairs and
now the point is what do you what do you accept the fact that more men and women can sit together and walk that doesn't matter? But Daddy, why should you insist Can you say to the woman sitting up upstairs and he does something wrong or this is something this is more code that you have to object to.
And it is also this, this you see this among a lot going on here, that they also tried to enforce their opinions in a similar similar way that
also, his wife
wrote and wrote a book about women in them. And unfortunately, this book was
and by the way, in the back of the book, they show a picture of her wearing any something I guess he goes into.
She says For example, that the Quran specifically called for equal rights for both men and women in divorce.
And if you go to the Quran, I know what versus basic design, and this is when we talk about methodology we'll talk about how we only they take a general verse or if we're,
if we're heavy,
heavy and also they call it a verse which
which has the meaning which is open to many or admin which is open to many interpretation. And they prefer that verse over a verse which is
or which is more explained in more detail, which is of course the exact opposite of what
with respect to for example, the verse in the Quran about what women should wear.
And it says illawarra Mina.
She says any that this, this command in the Quran, the Quran signifies recommending a conformance with the prevailing customs of a region or period and says nothing about a necessity for the veil or for all and will often refer to the left only the hands exposed. Basically, she's saying that according to this verse, no matter what the women are wearing, and even if it's many spirits up to here, and she says this verse says it's okay, because the verse is just saying you should wear what is customary among the people.
Also, she praised customer mean as someone who and we talked about him, let them briefly, someone who was a mentor of any women from Islamic point of view. And here's the
Here's an argument that was made like
she talks about who was the first to show you how far like the feminist in the United States, and in the feminist go way beyond any logical, you cannot logically argue for what they're saying in any way. Unfortunately, she seems to be influenced by that. Because she talks about the word enough. She said Allah, the first grade, the first human being, Allah describes it as nothing. And she said nothing is a feminine word, but for some reason, because of the influence of the Old Testament. And he listed all the oil yet. She says the Muslim scholar says the first human was a man, even though nothing is feminine, so therefore, it should have been the woman.
And she bring it to the person sort of dilemma, which is the aces is similar to the visa, and LSA is the same as M are also heading.
As I mentioned earlier, to try to wrap up, as I mentioned earlier, unfortunately, they have an institution, they have organization, they have lots of money. Unfortunately, they're very organized. And unfortunately, they're very good at what they're doing.
And spreading this way of looking at Islam.
They spread it through different ways they spread it, for example, through the magazines, they spread it through their TV shows,
just to give one example, and one of the magazines that comes from the Islamic center of Southern California, which is I believe, the any the contributing editors or the or the scholar at hand, or whatever, or the advisors are.
And it First of all, the reason the recent issues of this magazine, called the minarets coming from this nonsense at Southern California. In every one of the regional issues, they have to show a woman, a successful Muslim woman who they described without the help. For example, in one case, they brought the woman and they said Mashallah, I need to talk tonight about her, and she does work properly, and therefore she can work at home, she can work at home, that's good. That means she's not going to have any problem wearing Hijab and so forth. And the whole picture of her with
the next issue, they talk about Muslims graduating from college, and they show a Muslim woman without
any they're showing successful, quote, unquote, successful Muslim woman, that if our youth, our Muslim youth, see these women they're going to think or try to be similar to them. They also have a TV show,
which they go,
which they call Islam on the air. When it's produced by the same people, this is the middle read, they put a picture. And he from this TV show, this is their TV show. And he presumably, is spreading it.
And he this
this the program that they have the shoe on TV, unfortunately, they're spreading it throughout the entire United States. And any,
any representing there any version of Islam or Sunday, a woman waving and you can see from from the
analyst Rania moment or any of the people who follow this, and it does not question that the host of the show is going to have to be a woman
that not only is she going to have to be a woman, of course, she's going to have to wear as much makeup as you can. And to compete with I guess, technically.
This is the example that they take. but inside they show her a picture from the from the TV show, and I don't think you can see very well, but here are a bunch of men and women sitting together, some of the women are not. And even their dresses don't go all the way down to the floor, or are sitting together, or standing together practically arm to arm. And you can see that, in fact, they are touching men and women touching each other. They don't seem to have any problem with that.
All the data goes to the Muslim women and he not to
not to speak to men in such a way and in a flirtatious way.
And this is actually talking to a non Muslim here interviewer raised and they're laughing together. And here's another meeting of a number of women and in the dress with a woman are wearing hardly goes below the knee.
And he has it As you've probably not seen very well from
where you're sitting, having this. This TV show, which is a severe spreading throughout United States isn't what they're claiming is it's not. And not just these pictures, these are minor things but the thought that they're giving also Are any of the type of things that I've been I've been talking about today.
So if you look at the institutions
If you look at the even some of the conventions sometimes are dominated by people, this way of thinking. And if you look at the literature which is available, including this magazine, which is
one of the quality wise,
it looks like one of the one of the one of the best, unfortunately, magazines that are available. And if you if you consider all these factors, you will realize why Danny latonia movement is very strong, as well as the other factor the fact that I mentioned that, unfortunately, the few scholars that are or we have very few scholars that could refute them, and some of those even who could refute them, do not refute them. And plus, this is a very easy brand of Islam. But as we'll talk about later, unfortunately,
it is a very easily easy branch of Islam. But
the question is, How much?
And where do you draw the line? Where do you draw the line between actually the person was following this manoeuvre is, within the realm of Islam or not? I think inshallah, we'll
end the talk and open the floor for comments.
Remember, we're not finished, there's lots of aspects that we have not discussed today. And now I'm just presenting some of the viewers and some of the influence in the United States
was any of the other aspects about their methodology or their premises and
some of their points and putting them in detail and discussing the these points in detail gelatos would be in the future.
not only in America
in any group,
the way of life given
in this country.
You will never
be able to say to anyone, they can
not only the way
we look, but even
because I'm from California
and the home from the home, one of the two centers.
I think I can go to bed. Now the problem is because
as you mentioned the
they say they said it
they're leaving and leaving the church
it doesn't have
even the economic think of them as
you can imagine them.
That actually I could
tell you some stories about
Annie, which is in a better situation now than it was some time ago.
I can, as you said, the amount of money that they have another thing, and it seems very strange, and is the problem with as many branches,
for example, ATP, but the metrotrak publication, American press publications are the ones who publish the use of it.
They're the ones who published
it is bought and made it Gianni, they tried to spread it as
one of the best books available. They're the ones who published human, very small pamphlets. And which, when he mentioned some of the things that I mentioned here, they are also, they were even going to publish, if you remember, if you know, three mahoma
we're going to publish a book by Korean armor premium armor, beyond,
they can have the largest before they published it, she joined the Russian group, so they decided not to publish it. So anyway.
So from that aspect, Danny, they are to blame just as much as anyone else.
With respect to the conventions, also,
many some of their conventions have been completely dominated by scholars. Such as,
Ravi has been invited many times last year was early.
Got even beyond that, invite them especially middle, almost always invited to come and speak. And so the but the problem with that is that they have never taken a stand on what they believe in Islam.
And they don't believe to do so. They want to be an umbrella organization taking any Muslims.
I've discussed this with
the president before him put them in Modi and many other and in the past, and other people who work in such as those, and they will not take a stand. In the late 70s, when there was a big dispute between Sunni and Shia, they will never come up and say, well, the Shabbat existence needs to be this. They're not willing to do that. And if they do the same thing, any with respect to the opinion movement.
And in fact, they are not saying anything about the economic movement. And as you said, they are Yaniv zafrani movements, infiltrate them or publishers through them or lecture through them. You do not do anything. And they might not be the leaders. But they are to blame in the sense of do not know anything about the importance of you'll never hear a speech. Unless the convention someone's standing up refuting any of these things that
they don't believe in.
They don't believe in that because they want to be an umbrella organization. This is their theory, this is what they think and by doing this, they will do the best for us now.
They're the they're the
headquarters for them. One of them has been the what's gonna be the one isn't the
end, it's mine. photokey was one of the founders of the triple it along with his wife, he was one of the founders. And any next time
I'll talk about some of their people and some of their thoughts like cinnamon, who unfortunately now is the is the head of the stomach, University of Indonesia.
And some of the some of the writings
that they are one of the one of the leaders, they are more of the ideological leader while these people put into practice.
quite a number of other
My question is
do you have any art
As you mentioned, many schools are aware of shortcomings. And so there's been a revised edition.
And both of them have the law much better than the old one. So you have now on demand, the revised edition,
ATP now has revised edition, they are distributed. And also there is another revised edition that jabesh at least worked on, and is being distributed by many people.
This problem inshallah, and is part of it will be resolved.
know, it was a group, and it wasn't just
that I'm very happy to input my name, because I don't want to be responsible for
an active member responsible for the different states in
person like to look at any organization.
Of course, we can take a lot like one good idea. There's a lot of other university in the world in the Muslim world, that we can go, why did you choose United States, number one enemies of the Muslims, because
one of the main reasons because what they have in an education system may be good, you don't care about. But the idea is usually
we go to school with a woman, I don't think anyone of you here so go out and talk to a woman or sit with a woman in the class
and then call it a necessity.
The idea is, we have to be very specific by what we are, what the needs are that Muslims are misinformed by and get the assets, we should understand that our heart to our belief,
that our behavior,
but the idea, the idea of saying that this is have this mistake,
I remember dealing one
Amanda hurricane is one of the best scores. If you get his book off of the job, you will not have enough Book Three,
I can assure you, I can assure you that I never said that the budget is better, especially since coming to vote.
I can assure you I never said this.
And I have talking about getting the budget.
You thought you were asked about what do you what are the people that are Muslim? So Islam? How was it he told him the taste of the amount but then suddenly, I remember it was something okay. This is not important. This could have been a long time ago before before number one, remember, we changed. And before I changed my opinion about and you have to you have to consider this Don't say it was involved because the last four years, five years I've been here, I can assure you I never said such a thing. Saying boy, no, you just did you didn't
save that was I made an eternity. But the idea is, why does that mean that we can we can change our ideology our thinking and our the way we look to listen
to how we see it? Or is it is that? How
do you take that a hell of a Muslim and compare it to certain things in it seems to me that we're sitting here learning something, we're basically making it about other people that they are not here to defend themselves, or about something, what could we learn? Or what can we learn about it? The message of this model is something that we can use in our life that Muslims are not declining, like, if I have a question, if the one of us has been here a period of time, whoever wrote one no
one will ever read an Islamic book in English. We have to do that for people who sit down like this for
half of their life writing. And we come here we ask what is the best translation for this or suddenly Here we are. We are not the first people qualified, like as Muslims to sit down and put the person down like us. I don't think we're qualified. What did we put to Islam? We didn't put anything in person became Muslim in our hands, nothing. How many papers of your life in Islam?
So how can we sit down and we look at God that they left their coffee and decide to stay here with all that out there number 14 became Muslim in the hands number. My wife is working to another person but it's up to us
because guess what she
That makes sense to me.
But the idea is, we have to be in a position where we can sit down and say, This is wrong, this is bad. This is not acceptable.
it's been a while.
And that's an effort I might have been
right to make the lecture, more directed towards something that you can learn. Like, I want like a diet involved in American society. Since you're one of the Muslim in here, we'd like you to tell us something like that. You know, this is, this is my interest. I was sitting here and I was shocked. I never heard a lecture that like that before from you. I mean, I that's what I have to say. To make it clear for
those people, by the way,
while I was in business, and use will be so the woman sitting up there, he said, Isn't that educational place? Aren't we here for that restaurant? What are the owners think all the way? I'm gonna even if
anyone doesn't know, you know, and his effort
and his knowledge, he's a scholar
would like me to comment?
I don't know what he did recently. If you want to comment, you can comment on this.
was here last year. Now we have 4500 people from the Northland was there and not know what question was asked against something he did what against the man and he went when he brought the woman into the woman and into the midsection. You think people do not tell them?
When you tell them that, you know, and what did he tell him? Yeah, I was either before that. But I know for example, avoid, avoid any.
I don't want to get into an emotional argument. But lasagna movements? What did I
because you weren't here last time.
You came late last time you came late today. And while you're here, you're busy. So don't blame us if we didn't define as many moments.
So don't blame me, though. Don't don't do
you start attacking the guy. And as we know that, you know, what is asagna? What do you exactly define? And I think this is something basic, if you start any lateral, you should define it.
define what is asagna? Exactly. But okay, who can who can, and in less than a movement is a very dangerous movement. Because able to fool many people, because some of the people now who are joining it are people who are well respected. Okay? And who should refuse them to think I haven't sat down with Jim and by the way, and discuss some of these issues.
I sat down face to face with him. And he said to me, Well, like you said, that I will change this. And then this thing and polygamy he said, I will change this.
Not only did he not change it, I heard him a week later saying exactly the same thing. We cannot just say, go to Jamal burrow and talk to him because we go to Him. And He continued, there has to come a time that you have to speak. Okay. And then you know, you said who should speak someone will write someone who does this, you yourself said, I was an active member. I was a member of assura. I translated the persona for them. I've written lots of things like so what's your point?
And also, if I make a mistake in my writing, I expect someone to correct me that way.
And if I make a mistake, someone should come to me and say this is wrong. What you wrote here was wrong.
I can bring you another video and asked me to come over here next week. If you want. I can, I can beg him to come here. And maybe you can sit down with him, and then do some kind of
talk because it seems like we know everything about remembering that we don't know. But I have lots of experience with humans.
When I speak, I'm speaking on my experience, what I've seen what they've read what they've discussed with these people.
But the point is that if we like someone
that has them that you love time in the introduction to the to the lecture, I mentioned some very important points. One of the points is we're not judging these people's intention. I talked about as much as you know, some of them their intention was to save Islam.
And it from the writings It seems that the intention was to save a step further off man, one of the most extreme of the modernists.
Any of you write about why he took the modernist position, and it's in his hand he was he wrote about himself. My
Belief in action, if you believe what he's saying, and he is 100% is trying to say this now, because he thinks that if we don't change this, then it's going to be destroyed.
So first of all, I'm not talking about the intention. Secondly, if someone does something which is good.
If someone does something which is good, this doesn't mean that we have to sit and be quiet about the bed that he does give that that has the side effect.
We have to do something about, we cannot just sit quietly, and I discussed with you before, whether I should name people or not named people, I've given these lectures many times. Now, sometimes I don't name anyone who's involved. But if I don't name anyone who's involved, what I found is is people continue to do their inanity, the influence increases. And if the person doesn't know, I'm talking about, for example, as humans, but Oh, he just goes right back to humans, but of his books. And there's other things that I didn't mention. And we have to be we have to be aware of this.
And this approach, only that we are just silent. And this is the label. This is the same thing that the Sufi says to the scholars of Hadith that when you make Jehovah
Yani, if you're doing it, if you're doing it for the sake of Islam, to point out the mistakes is smaller so that we can be aware of them.
And answered, and he likes to write a book, what's the difference between writing a book and electric, you want me to write a book and give it to 1000 people instead of lecturing to 20 people. He didn't come to all the western United States and told us that the thing you are telling us to do is discuss these things with him. And in fact, when one of my lectures, I was refuting him, I was refuting him. And what you did is you just walked out, he had a chance to stand up and say whatever he wanted, he just walked out.
the point is, I understand your point, we should give everyone Yanni the benefit of a doubt. These are all our brothers. If they're doing work for them, we have to appreciate their work.
And if they are making minor mistakes, we should be quiet about what if they are not?
When you see your brother making a mistake,
brother brothers up here,
people that they are thought that we know about the activity.
If there's any doubt in anyone's mind, I mean, you right now, you're telling everybody here that this there is nothing. And if you take this up, it's not an activity in the United States, you don't have involved I didn't say anything is nothing I said just now has a theory.
Guys, you know, I used to be much shorter. As you know, I
used to be around, you got out. And now you basically what did I say about this? I said the problem with this man is that they have the idea that they should encompass everyone and not criticize anyone. And unfortunately, through their publications. And through their conventions, they are giving these people a field to talk.
And they're not saying anything about
me. I am exactly I just I just want to
know the office.
Our authentic society here. This image I mentioned the fact also that isn't as many branches. For example, I talked about he got to the point. The point is that sometimes Danny, we have to point out some mistakes. Sometimes we have
this argania movement is probably the strongest movement in the United States right now.
Thanks to the money, and the production of this, of these people have the TV show that they're putting out. And our people, unfortunately, are spreading their ideas, whether they know what they're not, they're spreading their ideas. It is the largest movement right now and we have to be aware of it. We have to understand what they're saying we have to understand what they're basing it on. And we have to be able to show the Muslims where they're wrong.
And this is now the second step we have to see what their influence, which is what I tried to do today.
As you had you been here earlier, I define what are the different steps that we'll be taking in this
the browser. So don't criticize me. Don't be mad with me. And probably probably is better not to comment this
was something that's
something I think
that a lot.
And I think what he's talking about in
this lecture in the previous lecture,
we really have to do, because I also came from a background where you have to show your wife about if you don't do that, then these people will come and ruin it.
Because, I mean, we are not going to sit down, actually, I was going to ask him, how are we going to fight them, in terms of
because now they are breeding, they are spreading very bad idea. And that's no good. I mean, you have to,
you have to fight them, if you don't fight them, they're gonna turn this
they're gonna be lost. I think that's the only country and I've seen that. And other people, when they are affected by those leaders that sometimes, maybe they were good, and then they change over time. And now you have to, you have to point out, I mean,
some authors have some good books, I'm not gonna name any of you right now. But they were good, another change. And I read about them. And now, you know, you have to be careful. I mean, we are not, we don't, we don't have to be dumb about it, we have to be very intelligent, and we are educated people. So we have to make a judgment. And
I mean, we cannot just take any
leader author in his mouth and just take his word for granted.
Not just by yourself, by merely listening to that, or reading from other books and then make
an offer, we have to clear that.
That does not mean that once we do something that indicates judgment, right away, we have to maybe W's maybe you have to ask maybe you have to go back and, and teach yourself how to maybe judge these things.
But we really have to.
And if it's worth just some points, whether you have to make a video from this or not,
to even mention it. But anyway, he when he gets to the point, for example, saying that there's some sooner the developers gonna make he heard you know, how to do not correct just
to say something like that.
to him and let him come back.
and his methodology, as we as I mentioned earlier, and it is four ways to make mistakes, we will discuss if he has wrong intention, he's not continually seeking the truth. And I do not say that for any of these people. But as if their premises for their philosophy or their basic assumptions are wrong, or if their methodology is wrong, or they're missing some detailed evidence related to the problem, if the methodology is wrong,
okay, or the basic assumptions are wrong. And if this is this is a big thing, specially if the person and is someone as influential. As the brother said, I can find you many women, especially women,
especially women do not listen to anyone except women.
And in this summer conference, and the women were upstairs, the men were downstairs.
And the brother You know, the brother was in charge. And they kept insisting that they wanted to downstairs
was in my bedroom is coming from the airport, he hasn't even arrived he's turning Danny about two blocks away, that's a few minutes away.
And somehow they know there's a German Guru is coming out, ask him
any if he has that much influence, then if he's doing something wrong, it becomes even more important to point out and his mistakes.
If he had more influence,
if what he was doing didn't matter. And that would bring up and say this talk about this guy, then you can say any What do you mind doing is just wasting our time making leave and he's trying to attack that debt. But what we're trying to do is defend Islam. And as Bradley said, there's something which there and it clear, there are some things which have different opinions. But if we only have one edge goes against the
demand, which is one of the lectures that I said we'll talk about in a minute.
Had to open it up as much as you
can when it comes to this one.
There actually there are
actually, and you can't avoid
any were forgotten to say that.
And he said the tribulation is similar to the hallucinations that crazy people have
any mission say anything about it and say this is the domain, let's be quiet.
But okay, he's dead. So we cannot talk to him. So does that mean? You can't say anything? Don't use the body is this if we just do this on every word assuming this okay then we can talk to him. So therefore we can say anything you are giving.
You gave me some
people know about resisting that people have what what I mean, as if you are,
this is one of the mistakes and
and it was a very big mistake to think that you cannot start someone until you are perfect. You cannot criticize someone until you are perfect.
You're young, you're blind, perfect. You're saying I haven't tested their questions anything. Any, they'll never be anywhere in the world.
Very important points. Every Muslim should understand. Now that not because
if if a Muslim can make a mistake or made a mistake, does not mean that you know as long as they should make a separation, that we should point out. Of course, somebody's
in a good place that makes adjustments. But this person will not we cannot talk about people without knowing that for sure. If you know something about somebody, and you know you're sure about the
quotes that I gave him today, are they for any that you continue to get out? of system or not? Are they any very clear, for example,
saying that the person put on a limit means that the woman should wear whatever is normal on her environment?
Is there any Muslim anyone has any Muslim
environments, everyone wears miniskirt, or beginning that means the Muslim woman is allowed to wear a
bikini because that's what
I'm taking extreme possession.
If I were taking anything from Charles or whomever you can see, this is your opinion, this is your man and so forth. The guy has taken extreme respect, Mohammed Abdullah
didn't take any.
Only Did you hear the whole course when you hear
the whole quote. And she's saying that the Quran and he doesn't say any limit to how much you should wear. And it's completely determined. And if she said, for example, that you have to cover what the Quran says to cover. And then you may want whatever is in the environment or something else, but that's not what she said. And she said, Annie, that there's no one
To what has to be covered in whatever the environment is what you
There are situations, for example there in a specific country, and it is only one group working for snap. Well, this group has some states, but it's better than everyone else is against Islam. And then this person has to decide whether it's his obligation to work for this group, given a few things, work words, and inside it just make no sense to them.
executive destiny, that's very possible that people will be joining this group because this is the only group working for us now. And it is better than all the other groups. But at the same time, they have an intention that if they can change it from within, they will change