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Ibraheem Menk

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Episode Notes

Debt with Ibraheem Menk & Adnaan Menk

Debt is a serious problem for many of us. Sheikh Adnaan and I discuss this issue with the hope that it helps some of us along the way.

Episode Transcript

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Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.

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So it's just waiting for sheffey by him to join. And inshallah we will be speaking about debt today. Salaam Alaikum. Can you hear me?

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Yes, we can hear you.

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And can you see me as well?

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No, we can't see you yet.

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Yeah, I think the there's a problem with either my phone or the internet. I had the same problem yesterday as well. So it's possible that it's my phone.

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Allah make it easy. You had mentioned that inshallah, today we will be speaking about debt. So maybe if you could give us a brief overview on roughly the points we want to touch on?

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Yes, sola Alhamdulillah. We wanted to talk about debt because basically, there's a lot of people that are taking on debt today, a lot of people are living on credit. They go to the bank, or they go to family members borrow money and live off that money.

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And these are debts that they taking on, but sometimes cannot pay back or don't know how to deal with and then when they can't pay back, they become anxious, they become stressed out. So I think it's important to talk about debt and how a person how Islam sees debt, basically, the general understanding of debt in Islam. So, first of all, what do you think? Like, in in what light has Islam portrayed debt?

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smilla rahmanir rahim when we look at, I'm just looking at one of the comments. Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim, when we look at debt, we find that in Islam in the Sharia, we find there is no encouragement, Allah subhana wa Taala. Nor the messenger has encouraged us to take on debt, because debt at the end of the day, our rights that need to be owed to other people, as mentioned in the Quran, and the Sunnah, when it comes to debt, if a person has to take it out, you forced to you're in a difficult position, then when you go and get this loan from somebody, obviously, there shouldn't be interest involved, it should be Heller. Thereafter, you have to look at how you are going to pay back.

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Remember, as we mentioned, we're not encouraging somebody to take on debt. And I think it's important to mention that the system we are in today, because it's a debt based system, it doesn't really encourage people to save their money, if you saving your money, inflation is going to eat it. So because of inflation, they're encouraging you number one to spend it, and number two, to take on more debt. So we shouldn't be stuck in this environment. Especially if we don't need to you don't need that if you don't need the latest car. You don't need the best house, why go out and get it?

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Yes, you know, what happens when a person has taken a debt, and they don't pay it back? Or they have no intention of paying it back? They take it in the first place, not intending to pay it back? Would this be you know, of course it's something bad, but do do any ahaadeeth come to light with regards to someone of this nature.

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As mentioned, where Islam doesn't encourage people to get into debt, let's say somebody's supposed to, now we look at your intention. If you are sincere, you need this money and your intention is to pay it back. Allah subhanho wa Taala will help you pay off this debt, whether it's in this world or the next. And if you are insincere, as the hadith of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam says, the one who takes other people's money with the intention of not paying it back with the intention of destroying this wealth, Allah subhanho wa Taala will destroy him. So the very first thing if you are forced to take a loan or to take on debt, your intention must be clean, it must be for something

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that you are going to do and you want to pay it back.

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Yes, if we take debt intending to pay it back, then the Hadith actually makes it clear that a loan paid back for you, Allah subhanho wa Taala will pay back for you. So when you take it, how you are feeling in your heart and what you are intending is of utmost importance. You need to remind yourself time and again, that it is Allah subhanho wa Taala who sees my intention and if I purified for him, then he will pay my debt back for me, he will give me a way out to pay this debt, etc. But if we take that debt, just intending to blow the money so to speak, then the Hadith actually says that Allah destroys such a person. So not only in this dunya but you lose out in this dunya and if

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that that carries on into the earth

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Then you will have to face the consequences regarding that debt.

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As you mentioned, the very first part is the intention. Now somebody may say, I have a good intention, so I'm taking money from everybody else. And they they're not doing anything to get that money back to pay it off here. Do we say it's enough? No. In other ahaadeeth Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam if somebody passed away, one of the first questions you would ask is, is this person in debt? Does he owe money to anybody? If they said no, he would perform the janaza Salah upon him. If they said yes, then he would say something to Allah. So he became basically he didn't want to lead the janaza Salah for somebody who was in debt, because these are rights. And somebody

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you know, he says in one of the Hadith we also have

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a man who was in debt and Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam didn't want to perform his journals and so on. I said, O Messenger of Allah, I will take on that I will take on the debt and I will pay it off. So Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam performed Salah, upon this person who died after a day or two, he asked this companion, have you paid off the debt? He said not yet. Eventually, a few days later, when he saw him again, he said, Have you paid off the debt? And he said, Yes. He said, Now you're that person's body and buried, basically, he's become free of that of those rights. So if you are still in debt, even if you are, even if you have the highest of rank, and you have the best

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of deeds, you will not be able to attain your boundaries and your rewards until that debt is paid off.

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Yes, you know, a lot of people need to be they attention needs to be brought to this that if your debt is not paid off, then that is a genuine reason why you may be punished in the grave. So you need to make sure that you pay your debts off whilst you can you know, sometimes we find people have the money to buy something, but they prefer to buy it with credit. Why? Because you know what, I'll use that money to do something else. Why do you want to take on debt? When you know that you've got the money in order to pay for it, pay for it? If you die like that? Alhamdulillah you've died debt free? Yes, in a circumstance and situation where you must take

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or borrow some money, then do it with the right intention. And Allah subhanho wa Taala will most definitely reward you.

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What advice would you have for a person who is in debt and wants to pay it back but just can't.

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So obviously, a person first and foremost, as we mentioned his intention, he must be sincere. The second thing he must make a lot of ask Allah Subhana. Allah, the One who owns everything is able to pay off your debt, your debt is small and minute, compared to all that he has. So carry on asking him also, this is a test for you, at the same time, start doing something go out, maybe you have four or five cars that you are using, but you owe people 100,000 200,000 start selling some of the cars you don't need. Keep your essentials, remember, you are still in debt. If you have four or five houses, but you still owe another person a million dollars, well start making plans, because those

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houses are not your necessity, you have five or six and you don't really need them. So at times we find, as you mentioned, that some people have the money, but they don't want to pay. And they mentioned the headaches that you know Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he mentioned that you must forgive a person in debt and there's a lot of reward, etc, etc. And there also is yes, we agree. But when we look at debt, we find Islam and the last panel with Allah and the messenger, they addressed the person who gave up the loan to be easygoing, etc. but they've also addressed the one who took on debt. One of the things he says is Mattila de volman sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, the

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one who actually has the money, and he owes it but he is delaying This is oppression. It is not allowed.

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Yes, yes. You know, someone asked a very interesting question here. And that is can you talk about credit cards,

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or they advise to use?

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Well, I think

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there's a lot of different cards. I'm going to give you a general guideline, I'm not going to speak about a specific bank or specific country etc. In this topic, this is basically the topic I studied. I've been studying for quite a long time. Basically, when you look at the cards, let's say we are speaking hypothetically, we are looking at a perfect scenario. Let's say there's somebody with a bank that doesn't deal in interest or anything. However, we are saying this just so we can imagine this way they stay on the ground or not one law one. Nonetheless, when it comes to your Visa or MasterCard or whatever, a lot of times you want to buy online, you can buy with your debit card.

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You can't do this, if your bank is giving you the option of something interest free, then you should take it. However, in some of the countries we live in, there is no harm free option. So here and you would find that a credit card is a necessity today. So here are some of the scholars have mentioned that this would be allowed if somebody is in need.

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So a lot of people take these credit cards and God, they swipe whatever for whatever they want, literally blow up that credit that they've got. And don't think about the time that they have to pay back.

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And you know, because it's not physical tangible. So you don't actually realize how much you're spending, you go. And you see that, okay, my credit cards got a limit of 5000, let me just go and spend, and they don't think of the time that they've got to pay that back within. And if they don't, they're going to have a lot more interest to pay as well. So I think generally, you know, credit cards, like you were saying, we won't talk specifically about any cards, but with regards to your money as well that you have in the bank, and with the cards that you've got, try to remember that you spending resources that you have at your disposal. So we need to bear that in mind. Because

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today, the thing electronic money, plastic money, you know, that which we don't see, people don't actually realize how much they spend it. And then they go back at the end of the day, sit and look at the accounts and say, Wow, we've spent so much you know, we could have saved X amount. And unfortunately, by then it's too late.

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You know, something else, when it comes to the cards we spoke about, just now somebody may say in the comments, are you allowing interest, etc, etc, you have to understand Let's be practical, is there are countries where you can get a card and there is no interest involved. So your 30 days or 40 days, whatever after that they're not charging you anything. There are banks like that available. However, most of the countries being realistic, we are saying a person needs a credit card, he needs to get a few things, he needs to buy some things he needs it for his business, there is no halaal option we are talking about what does he do here. So we're not encouraging anybody. And we're not

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saying it's helpful to get into an interest contract. But let's say a person is in need, we are only mentioning what some of the other scholars have already mentioned. And for more detail, you should ask your local scholar he would be more aware of the specific bank and specific rules, etc.

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Yes, we find a lot of businesses also, you know, have been established through debt, etc, or with debt. And sometimes, you know, it becomes difficult, it becomes hard for people to pay that debt off later. When you take the debt, you don't realize how hard it will be to pay it back. So

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at times, it's better to do business within your means. So if you can afford to spend 5000, or risk $5,000, then risk that 5000. If you can afford to risk 10,000 of your own money, then risk 10,000. But if you can't afford to risk more than that, and you want to take a debt of a loan of 40 to 50,000, you really need to know what you're doing. Because you can end up losing everything altogether.

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Most definitely. And as you mentioned, when you sit with some of the businessmen or when you look at some of the people who have taken up this debt, it's because they want to keep up with others. As you mentioned, they want to for the same as they want to keep up with the Joneses. living within your means you can afford a Toyota you don't need to go and get credit and take out the muck. Everybody may be doing it. Credit, money may be cheap, the banks may be giving you deals, especially now when the interest rates are almost at zero. And they're trying to encourage lending and people to take on debt to stimulate the economy. You've got to be aware of this tomorrow, the interest

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rates may go up you have to negotiate your contract again. So there's a lot of detail involved. Basically, in a nutshell, Islam does not encourage you to get into debt in the first place. We are talking about somebody who needs to get or who needs to take out a loan, even if it's a you know, as you mentioned, for your business. So you need a house, then the scholars have mentioned a lot of detail when it comes to this and you are better off asking your local scholar.

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Yes, yes, yes. Someone's just mentioned here that most businesses are with debt with debt are in a lot of trouble as a result of COVID-19 so this is something that I don't know. Give us your advice. Give us what you what you think. I think that comment there. I it's it's proof to show that when times are good people want

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To take on debt debt debt, and they don't realize that tomorrow something may happen, the whole ballgame changes. And then you are in a spot of bother you in trouble. They want to take away your business, your house, your car, and everything else. So if you didn't need to go into debt in the first place, you shouldn't have gone. And this is one of the lessons that we learned from this, as far as specific fatwa about the current virus or whatever. As we mentioned, ask your local scholar, we don't want to give a blanket something is halal and allowed. So I think it would be best to ask your local scholar.

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Yes, you know, when you say that live within your means, I think that's half of the reason why people end up taking it because they feel like look, this man has got a Mercedes, I need a Mercedes, they see a personal that beautiful house, I also need to live in a really nice house. So they ended up going out there getting a mortgage, taking buying a count, higher purchase, just to show others that they've got, but in reality, they're actually living in a whole lot of debt. And when push comes to shove, all of a sudden, like right now, the brother mentioned how this pandemic is causing a lot of problems for people. So you didn't keep this in mind, you didn't even know it was going to

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happen. So now you can't pay back your mortgage, you can't pay back your, for your car. So everything like you mentioned is taken away from you. And you you've lost everything. So you were operating on credit, whereas you could have tried to keep within your means and survive it wouldn't affect you that much when something of this nature happened. A lot of times it's unnecessary things that they buying. So you know, it's things that you don't even need to live with. You can live with it Toyota like you said, but the guy wants a series because he wants to, you know be seen as a figure in, in society.

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Most definitely, as you mentioned, people want to be spend this money a lot of times on luxuries and they want to give out an image that that which they actually are not I was reading the COI today, where they were speaking about the humbleness and humility of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. When it came to his clothes, yes, he dressed well, but he didn't wear anything that was that stood out and was so expensive. That was beyond his means, again, his conveyance of transport to use what other people use that his time he rode a camel, he rode a donkey, he rode the horse, and he also wrote a mule. And at times, the companions around him if they didn't have some transport, he

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being the leader, the one in charge, the one who everybody thought he would actually share those vehicles with them. So what I want to mention is that look at the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is he lived within his means. There was a question at the bottom of speaking about tuition fees. And personally, I Hamdulillah, we've never been in a position to take on debt for tuition, especially however, let's put Helen and Helen on the side for a minute. And let's look at this in a different light. Is does your life depend on the university? Does your life depend on a degree? Does your life depend on somebody telling you are giving you a piece of paper that says you

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are successful? You know, a lot of times I think, people who, because they see everybody in academia going through the system, they think that is the only route to success, not realizing, you know, what, if yes, if you're doing it because you like it, or you need to do it or you're able to create, we're not talking about you, we're talking about somebody who just wants a job at the end of the day, they just want a degree. And they think the only way to get it is to go through the system, get into debt and get your certificate. There's other ways of doing it. The new social media trend and all this entrepreneurship look into it, read about it. School is not the only way University is not

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the only way.

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Yes, you know, the Hadith says this actually are sharing with each other as far as I'm sure. It's a hadith from Rasulullah saw Sal and that is ninth 10th or 10th of risk is in business. So you know, we've been taught to go to school to actually learn things that will teach us how to run and manage other people's businesses and help them grow. And if you look at how universities, even the current day, courses, etc, came about it was through this type of industrial revolution in in a lot of these countries where people had started producing manufacturing, they now required people have different levels. So they sent him to school started teaching them and told them you know from the production

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line, we will we will move you up to this line. And then from there, we'll take you further up and further up. So

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They will literally sent to go and learn how to build other people's businesses. Whereas you can build your own you can try yourself.

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Most definitely, I think where we come from because we from the third world, the people they think like that more, they think business wise, owning your own thing. But there's also people who live in the first world, we're not throwing shade completely on academia, we are saying that, do you really? Do you feel? Or do you think that the only way to have a successful life and have a good pay is to get into debt and go through the system, if you don't like it, don't do it. There are other ways start trying, there's 123 different ways of doing it, many, many different ways of doing it. So that's what we're talking about.

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Isn't I also feel like one of the reasons people take on debt is because they want to succeed today. And they can't wait for 10 years, five years, 10 years, 20 years. Whereas when our fathers and our forefathers came, they worked very hard for many years. And they toiled and suffered. And they knew that sometime in the future, definitely Allah subhanho wa Taala will grant you There's nothing wrong with hoping for success tomorrow, overnight, but you should be working for it. And don't give up because you failed at something. So people want it tomorrow. So they take on huge debt in order to start up. Whereas you can start small and build from there. There's nothing wrong with that. We see

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businesses where a person is not even so well educated, but it takes him 10 1520 years and eventually, the man has built something of value. And Allah subhanho wa Taala grants him Baraka in that. Someone asked a question here about how we can attract more Baraka towards our businesses that run without debt.

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I sort of lost on a lot of it, he was sentences in the Hadith, speaking about the buyer and seller for in southern kawabe Yana moody Keller, who Murphy Bay rahima. If both the buyer and the seller are truthful, the buyer giving his product, he's not telling a lie. He's not saying it's a new product to the best on the market where it's not. And the seller who's taking it, if he's taking some credit is not taking it with the intention of not paying back. Both of them are truthful, who already care. lahoma eBay rahima Allah subhanho wa Taala will prompt him Baraka in their transaction. We're in Canada, we're Katonah, if both of them had to deceive one another. They both

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had to lie. Somebody is hiding something from another person. You're hiding the fact that there's something wrong with your product. You're hiding the fact that you may not have money in your account, you're going to write a check that's going to bounce we're in Canada, we're ketema mohaka Balak Andrew Bailey, Hema, the Baraka the blessings in that in that transaction are taken away.

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Yes, yes, yes, yes, this is where people feel like they they should lie in order to gain something very, you know, quickly, but in reality, what they are doing is removing the balaka from the, you know, I actually really added that is I could see that Anna 32 Sherry cainy Melania Khun Hoon, a huduma Sahiba, for in Holland on a holiday to mean by Nima that I am the third of two partners, obviously, they are no partners in worship, to Allah subhanho wa Taala. But what is meant here is that Allah, He provides you with Baraka and goodness, and in the way that he is meant to be with you in that partnership, so long as one of you does not deceive the other, the minute he deceives him, I

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leave that partnership altogether, meaning I no longer grant him the Baraka and the sustenance that they were supposed to have from that partnership. So when you try and deceive each other, then Allah subhanho wa Taala leaves you to yourselves, and then you are left to your own. And there is no Baraka no guidance, no help. So in that case, you are deemed to fail, if not financially, then islamically.

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Most definitely, you know, I think it's a very important topic that a lot of people when it concerns a lot of people, you know, reading some of the comments or some of the questions in the thread. There's a lot that people relate to, and it's important to mention this, one of the brothers said that what if parents passed away and they left debt, or the father was in debt? Amazingly, I was reading today but how do you feel about a loved one when

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he says when his father had to let him know how long when he passed away? He was in debt. He had he needed to owe people some money. So look at how the son of a loved one who says that I tried to pay it off. Even says how he went to Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam asking the messenger to go to speak to these people, you know, to lessen the debt or to forgive the debt, and they refused after that. Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam

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Basically, in the Hadith, it's mentioned how he ordered him to go to the garden, to his orchard his dead trees, and get the dates and start paying off the people. What I want to mention here is look at how general the alarm on the sun, he obeyed his parents, even after they passed away, he knew that his father was in debt, and he needed to pay it off. Another important thing to mention, and we touched on this on the topic of inheritance, when somebody dies, and they leave their estate, their wealth, before this wealth is distributed to the inheritance, there are other rights that need to be fulfilled. One of them being debt. Your father, for example, let's say he left a million dollars,

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but he owes somebody a million dollars here, you'd have to take that money and pay this person who he owes first before you get anything. And if there's nothing remaining, then the inheritors don't get anything.

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Yes, yes, yes, yes. You know, when it comes to taking debt, are we allowed to take debt for absolutely no reason. So for example, a person has no actual requirement will need for it, but they just take it to do something minor or go on holiday, or do something that is not really, really required in their life at that moment.

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As we mentioned, Islam doesn't encourage debt as for saying it's harm, I don't know, I haven't found anything to say it's how long to take out, or to take on credit. For a luxury For example, I haven't found anything to say it's how long but at the same time, you must remember that if you do that there are rights that will need to be fulfilled, and what sort of loss Allahu Allahu wa sallam says, you will most definitely give everybody their right in full, if not in this world on the day of the AMA.

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You know, someone here asked a very interesting question. What about liability, son and daughter? same same liability or any difference mean? Do they? Does the Son and the daughter hold the same liability? Who is it that the liability of debt passes on to after a person has passed on?

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Look, after a person has passed on, we mentioned that if they left something behind, we will take it from this wealth. Now let's say they've left nothing behind who takes it on? Do they have to take it on is a lot of detail mentioned they and I think you should ask your local scholar.

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That's a good answer. JazakAllah here, we've really benefited from that. handler there's a brother thing here, man, he says,

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Allah bless you brothers, extremely beneficial discussion and advice. Hamblen, I think, like we were saying, these type of discussions really benefit us all. So we learn and we hope to benefit others as well.

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I mean, I mean, you know, it's a very, this topic, whether it's to do with debt, and banks and cards, it's involves people's day to day lives. Everybody, everybody, or almost everybody every day is using their car, they need to use the bank, they need to use this. You can look at it from an idealist perspective, basically trying to look at the ideal situation to say there must be no Riba and these people were saying Islamic Finance, they are allowing how and you can look at it from the opposite side to say that these people are saying that those who say everything's Hello, a lot of things that Hello, they say no, you people are making difficult for the people. And I think the

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solution when it comes to this one

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is we need to make effort the system itself and I encourage you to read up on the system and how it works. The fiat money system, the system itself is not designed to have an interest to be interest free, they need to stimulate the need to encourage spending, etc, etc. We are now in a position where we have to use this system. So there are those who tried to get it to the most hallel they could so if it was 100% how long they tried to fix 10 2030 40% and we thank them just Allah haven May Allah reward them. But at the same time, we should mention that there are certain transactions that on paper sometimes they show the scholars and the scholar may sign on paper, it looks like that

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what's being practiced is interest or something that is completely Haram. Another important thing to mention is that those who sit back and only criticize when it's time we also stood up and did something you know, I always give an example of when we look at the current system, we have the monetary system, it's like a tall building 10 floors. We as those people who are trying to make it Islamic are looking at one flow and trying to make it golden ocean clean for everybody. However, the building itself may collapse at any time. So we at the same time we are trying to correct this site. We have to be making our own building, whether it's a different way of doing

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We need a different system, whether it's code base to code, whatever it may be. But we also have to be looking at alternatives.

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Yes, I think that part of things is ignored. A lot of the times we end up talking about how interest is haram. And how do we deal with a certain situation with regards to the current situation on the ground, but we don't think about how we can set up our own system that is halon, that is perfectly fine for us to deal in, we tend to ignore this and leave it people want to, you know, work on basically the existing system. Whereas even if you look at Islamic Finance, we won't go into the details, but it is to do with the existing system that is in place. And you you're dealing with that and trying to refine it to make it as halal as possible. Whereas you have you you there is a

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possibility of you creating another system all together, which I fully agree with you i know that's very forward thinking. But we have to have people who who think like this in the oma

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you know, most definitely, I think when it comes to change, especially in in these topics, we are not speaking about beta, we are not speaking about innovation in religion, where somebody is coming with a new act of worship, no is thinking about change technology that helps people we shouldn't always be, you know, stuck to what we grew up with, this is wrong, this no study it, you may be able to use it in some way or another, you may be able to benefit somebody else. So you should always be open to new ideas that would improve the lifestyle of others. We're not saying things which are Haram. And we're not saying innovation in the religion, we are talking about something which is

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noble and permissible. So for example, if it comes tomorrow to making solar cars, and where you don't really need fuel, and that and it will help people etc, etc. You have knowledge in that? Well, by all means, go and try and do it. You're helping people you're helping humanity as a whole.

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You know, someone asked a question about mortgage, and they were saying like, Is it better for them to stay in mortgage in debt for 30 years, or it's better for them to keep paying rent until they can afford to save that amount of money to pay for a house. But I think with questions like these, like we've always said to refer to your local scholars, because they are more, you know, aware of your situation, what's going on your particular current living situation in that area, etc. So Allah knows best, we would rather leave these questions to be posed to local scholars who have more knowledge of the current and the actual situation on the ground.

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Most definitely, because you would find that some scholars from a certain place in the world, they may see differently as others as as other scholars from another place in the world, everybody knows their situation. And it is better for us here because we don't know what's going on, instead of saying hello, and how long you should remember that when you are giving a ruling life. As the scholars mentioned, it's as though you signing off to say, this is most definitely what Allah wants you to do. And we are in no position to do that, especially with such a, with the world being so diverse, and people's living situations differing from place to place, time to time, at the same

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breath, I want to mention that a lot of times when this question comes up, it's because you've got a job and then every time when your pay comes into the bank, then they take a little bit for the mortgage, etc. Maybe another way you can look at it is try and have something on the side, you know, someone might say I'm working 1012 hours a day, we'll take out another hour, two hours, with the correct intention, maybe buy and sell something on the side, you know, have your own little side hustle, as they call it, and you can try and whether it's own your house, or pay a few other debts. A lot of people have done this. Don't think it's impossible. And yes, we wish you all the best.

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also share if you have a business and your customers are paying with credit cards, does the money become harder? Because with credit cards, they pay interest? That's you receiving money right? I don't I don't think that that affects you in any way. So if someone if if their money was Haram, but they came and gave it to you, it was haram because of interest. They came and gave it to you that doesn't affect your business, because it's hard for you to take time for them to have engaged in that.

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That's assuming that this situation is one way the person who's paying is paying with something somehow on earned income.

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Yes, I think you put it rightly the some harm and income so we're not speaking about somebody who's gone and stolen money, etc. We're speaking about somebody maybe they've got interest. The money itself is not deti or in

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is not impure, it is heroin for this person to use, because he got it in a wrong way. But if he comes to your place or your shop, and he pays for that money, you're just receiving it and you taking it. Another important must elect to mention here is that sometimes, in fact, most of the times where people live is the bank accounts you open, a lot of times they will give you interest, they, a lot of times, they will give you interest for keeping your money, they some people take that money and they destroy it, they say it's impure, they throw it away, they burn it, that would actually,

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that wouldn't actually be the best way of doing it, of doing things. The best way of doing things in that situation, you take that to heart on money that somebody gave you, you're not talking about your business, let's say you have a bank account, and they give you interest on the money you put in, take that money, dispose of it, give it dispose of it in the correct way by giving it to somebody in need, or doing some sort of good work without you benefiting from it, because it's interest, you're not allowed to benefit from it. However the money is there. So give it to a poor person, somebody who's going to use it. She has not confirmed that. For me, I may be wrong in this.

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But when a person has earned her money for a long time,

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and they pass on, then the inheritors, it becomes halal for them. But it was haram for this person in his lifetime. So for example, a person has earned money from interest they gave loans that they got interest back, and they now passed away their estate, half of it to three quarters of it might be based on interest, whatever the percentage, so other children then allowed you to take that money or should they dispose of it?

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I don't know. Well, all I can say is that let's say a person is in the home, the father is getting money and he's supporting the children. Let's say he's getting it through interest. for him. It's haram for the children, they it's helpful for them because they haven't done anything wrong. Adding to your question, let's say the person left an estate and is full of interest, etc, etc. Let's say these inheritors took it on, and they inherited it. We would say here that Firstly, if you in any of these agreements, where there's interest, etc, try to you know, put it to a stop. Sometimes if people are multimillionaires, billionaires, it may be difficult to stop it immediately. But slowly,

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slowly, you must try and make that effort how best possible. So yes, as for the the wealth inherited, I think you are correct on that, but we will recheck it.

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Also, we need to remind the the viewers and everyone out there listening that

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when you take a debt and write it down, Allah subhanho wa Taala says, Yeah, you are living, either today into the dining room or segment to go. When you take a debt to a specific time, then write it down. It's very, very important to write down because at times, you know, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts family, you feel like oh, this is family, it doesn't matter. I don't need to write it down. He knows that I owe him X amount. There is no big deal. But in that case, I think it's more important to write down because just in case something goes wrong, you've got family as well. That's their relationship. So you've got to be careful. It's very easy for any of us. Get, you know, that's

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a very, very important point. You mentioned that. And sometimes people feel you know, they feel offended if you want to write something down. And I think one of the best ways I found to actually get this writing done without offending a person basically you say if they are Muslim, you say you know what, Allah ordered me to do this. And he he promised a reward basically in Nevada is anything that Allah loves, so we will be rewarded, I want to reward and I also want to reward for you. So let's write it down for the Baraka if it's a non Muslim, you can tell them that this is what my religion teaches. It's not only for that I can to protect my rights it's also to protect your rights

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What if the children have knowledge that the father's earnings or harm so they know that the Father is any harm? He's a loan shark or he's doing something he's earning from a hammer means what what do they do? You know, can they eat from his wealth? What's the story? I think you'd have to look into this into more detail what are we talking about? Are we talking about somebody who is dealing in drugs doing something illegal, then this is I think something different altogether we you don't keep quiet and carry on eating somebody is doing something completely wrong. Maybe they trading in body parts or organs etc and selling and buying on a certain market. here we can say that just you know,

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keep quiet and carry on eating. So I think is more detailed, more specific.

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I think we were referring to interest

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and not money that was stolen or usurped from somebody else property that was taken unjustly. We were not talking about that. I think those will have their own rulings.

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Surely, Brahim?

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My internet is getting bad again. Shall we call it today? No. Yes, I think there's one more thing to mention is that some people they want to make tau but there comes a time in a person's life where he wants to make Toba. So you've earned your wealth through how long? Let's say your whole empire is built on how I'm interest and wrong deals, etc, etc, etc. Now there's a time you come and you want to make Toba? Must you give all your wealth up? Or is there a way Is there another way of doing it? Here we will say make Toba ask Allah Subhana Allah to forgive you and you keep your wealth also, and that is the most not only most correct opinion will Lackawanna but also the most practical. You

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know, you cannot

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throw a person far away from Toba and tell him you've earned $10 million with interest or how long now you must give it away in order for your Toba to be accepted. No, we hear we would say make Toba Allah Subhana Allah will forgive you is off for him and try to use your wealth for good deeds. But we don't want to, you know discourage him from making tilbyr

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CFCs I think that's a big point where a lot of people feel like if I make Toba I'm gonna have to give up all my money, and why should I do this etc. So it's actually something that makes them keep away from that tober It keeps them away from it and they feel like they distant from Allah subhanho wa Taala. And they have no chance at all, whatsoever.

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I think, a topic that we should leave for another day but very important related to one of the questions asked how do we have Baraka in our wealth? I think that's a good topic to speak about and what do you think inshallah we speak about it one of these days

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in Shell absolutely, absolutely, Chef, Jessica Lafave it's been lovely chatting with you, and inshallah, let me logo and with me like Tada. We meet on the day after tomorrow, which should be Sunday,

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even in the desert of Iran, and we thank everybody for following. At the same time, if you've got topics that you want us to discuss, while you've got

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I think somebody is already speaking about perspective on stocks, etc. inshallah we'll leave that for another day is a lot of detail involved. And any other questions, any topics you'd like us to discuss? Please feel free to mention your suggestions, and we'll try and look into them as best as possible. Remember, it's a discussion and we are giving guidelines. We are not giving specific rulings to specific people for that we encourage you to go to your local scholar shaper him I think that's about it. For me case, salaam aleikum. barakallahu li kumarakom salam, O Allah, Allah cat