Interview

Got you went complaining to your parents, you should, actually all these sort of issues why? Because we don't have a central authority that is radiating everybody the same values. And this is the real challenge that the Muslim community need to encounter. And sometimes I say to myself, the one who should be replacing and also sell them today as an authority should be the ruler ma should be the imams in the messages should be, the teachers should be the coaches, that personal trainers, we should create this kind of an awareness and I know it would not replace, as if it were the prophets are selling but at least it will make more trade this kind of multiplicity of different authorities,

and on the long run, it will create that kind of an awareness. Absolutely, absolutely. Zakka another issue within society and I'm sure there's been probably sayings and incidents with the Prophets Allah has advised us on balance. And we are so overwhelmed and taken over by school and extramural activities and having to fit into society and even the madressa is not the anymore as what it used to be back in our day we go in every afternoon, after school to my dresser and it has become non existent in a way so that balance of not seeing your your parents often we used to have a ritual of going to a you know, Granny and grandpa once a week or over weekends. But but the children are so

overwhelmed with homework and projects and then there's extramural What did the Prophet SAW Selim advise us and I know there's always always a there was always advice on on moderation, but yeah, in his life, what was his advice on you know, balance and time and responsibilities, what is the what was important?

This is this is again, very fascinating question and because it is extremely difficult even we as adults, we actually struggle with what we today talk about as time management and again, as we see books on emotional intelligence, or animal books on also time management. One of the Hadith on Shama elected me the, the one of the books that talks about the characteristics of the Prophet SAW center, it is said that Al Azhar, Selim used to divide his day into three parts, one part he gives it to Allah subhanaw taala, in terms of dua, ibadah, and isolation and meditation etc. And then the second part, he would give it to his family, including his children, his wives, etc. And then the third

part, it would be for himself for himself, meaning for serving the people meeting with the Companions, etc. So,

also selling here is given us one of the much needed skill, and that is time management. I think the essence of time management is discipline and commitment to it. Sometimes, we are aware of something we are aware that we need to wake up early in the morning, but only to go to school. But if it's a weekend, we oversleep, we are aware that we need to go to the gym, only because before marriage, we go to the gym, but after the marriage, we grow a belly. My point is I'm sorry to maybe this is not an appropriate but my point is that whenever we believe in a particular value, we need to stick to it or also sell them that was his schedule, whether he was in his 40s or 50s, or 60s. So that's

number one.

Number two, regarding the the the responsibilities, I agree with you, today we are we live in a very over ambitious age, we want to become wealthy, we want our children to become smart, we want them to wake up come half of Quran. But at the end of the day, we are overwhelming. It's actually straining our very human relations together and it's coming at the expense of other things. What's the point of someone becomes a medical doctor, but the expense of not seeing his grandmother for multiple months. My point is that we need to maintain and strike a balance between yes, we want to be successful, we want to be wealthy. But at the end of the day, we have to also focus on things that

do not bring us money necessarily but brings us emotional credit with our families such as love, care, sacrifice, empathy, caring for one's elders.

It doesn't our relations do not have to necessarily always be transactional. Like, you know, how much am I given? How much am I receiving? Now you asked me about parenting and what does what did the resource in London, inspired by the action of Rosa Salem with the children, you have a lot of scholars that have written in the past about parenting and a prominent scholar that you usually do not quote in quote in this in this parenting. Usually it's Imam Hassan Mohamed El Rosario, we usually quote him in Harlem teen Sophie's the soul, etc. But believe it or not, he actually wrote a book about parenting. And one of the things that he says, where he talks about the need to give

children a break, and allow children that they after they come from the madrasa

They need to be given time to simply play, do nothing but playing. He says, because if we don't, we are creating dumb children, we are creating children that are not smart, because he believes that playing gives us this time to process what we've learned. And it gives our mental. And even today, in the books of creativity, they say that the more sometimes you think of a problem, the more you don't find the solution. But if you go and take a shower, or go and jog, or just go and meet a meditate, it is here, that you will find the solution. It's like this, this person who had who invented the law of floating, what was his name? When did he How did he come up with this law while

he was having fulfilled the water in the value. And then he said, I found it and found the you know, Eureka, I found it or whatever. So today, people come up with all these kinds of ideas. Sometimes I personally, I come I, I'm just driving my car, I see something that has nothing to do with the problem I was thinking about, and then come up with creative solution. My point is that we do not have to always impose on the children and make them victims of our ambition, we get to be children only once, I will only be 13. For one year after that I will be 14, please. Because if you deny me that now, you will see sometimes that it fires back, people grow up to be depressed, or people take

time to mature because they are fulfilling their lost and stolen childhood from them. If you talked about moderation, I'm saying other than moderation, justice, let's understand the needs of each each age group and give it now I'm not saying that they neglect their homework. I'm not saying that you neglect them. But we need to do it in a way that is subtle, that is balanced, that is moderate, and recognize that they have other needs just than to learn the Quran or make the multiplication or math equation. Absolutely. So from that there's come so many questions, but now I have to quickly kind of stick to the schedule. Because we have some listeners and our production team that has put together

some questions I'm gonna hold on to that just a little bit because you that has brought up the you know, the question around playing teacher child, at a certain age when they're meant to be playing, you know, then a certain age you teach them and then you know, if they're your friend, so inshallah we'll move on to that a little bit later on, but to bring up the fact of grandparents, how the Prophet SAW Selim was a doting grandfather, and maybe some examples of how our grandfathers, our grandparents, rather, today can emulate that.

So to make a context for that, and also Selim was a grandfather for seven, seven grand daughters and grandsons on sons and daughters, girls and boys, for four boys and three guns. How did you use to deal with them? Actually, again, I mentioned this in my courses, there is a fascinating book that scald? How did he deal with them? Specifically talking about a resource element? How did he deal with various sectors of society? And there is an entire chapter about also celebrate the grandfather, and how did he deal with his granddaughters and grandsons, and he gives you this, the author gives you these kinds of sub titles. So one of the titles is that he used to joke with, he

used to laugh with them, he used to carry them, he used to carry them for long periods, so much so that them at that time not wearing nappies used to urinate on his legs. And he would say, Nothing is the matter, no problem. He would, he would ask the mother who would be usually his daughter, daughter of the Prophet to take the boy and he will ask for water and he will clean the urine and that's it. End of story. He will allow them even to go to the mosque something that unfortunately today, some mosques in the same way that they ban women they banned children. So it reminds me of these segregation. Or, you know, the, during the 50s and the 60s, in America, no, no Jews, no

blacks, no dogs. Sometimes you have mosques here, no children, no women. But so also Selim used to allow the children to and think about it. If a child is not wearing a nappy, nappy and he urinates on the luck of the prophet could it be a possibility that this same child who's not wearing a nappy because it was not available in society could have been urinated in the mosque, but that did not prevent the following. They also said they would not say children you really prevent them from no they would come they would come and sometimes climb on the back of the Prophet SAW Selim. Once the Prophet SAW Selim is prostrating and the Prophet SAW Selim would prolong his prayers deliberately

until Omarama, one of his granddaughters had had enough of enjoyment you spoke, we spoke a while ago about the importance of play. Now please square this for me. He is praying and he's leading the prayer in congregation and as we have scheduled in this radio program he had also

scheduled to finish the prayer before time. Yet, the prayer is prolonged not for a reason to do with the companions or a brother or Allah or the prophet, but to do with the concerns of a child that has not had enough climbing the back of the Prophet. And after the prayers, the companions are asking jasola Why did you prostrate for so long? And then he would say, my granddaughter, Mama is having fun, right? Should I actually interrupt her? I had to wait until she finishes. And then I said Allahu Akbar, and I ended the prayer. So he used to take them to the masjid. He used to carry them or you and he used to advise them also, this is the important role of a grandparent sometimes we

think of a grandfather is the one who's spoiling the kids just bringing them candies etc. And attention happens between the son Mike my father, why are you bringing candies he has just brushed his teeth. And that's why in the books of parenting, they say let the grand parents spoil your their grandson, this is their role in life, because they are now grown older softhearted etcetera, etcetera. So, but also SLM would also advise and also give instruction so one day, and Hassan one of his grand sons ate a date that fell. And in fact, and we are not going to speak here about fit, but this is something to be mentioned alongside this example, and in bait are not allowed to eat from

the sadaqa. On his bait for the people of the household are not allowed to eat from Masada and also sell it is not no one is allowed to inherit a resource to have inheritance going on. So Selim died his money was distributed to the poor, even his wives did not inherit or his children did not inherit. So he said to Alison, come in enough seats dirty dirty dirty. So even though an hasn't could not yet understand puram and Khaled also spent the Salem spoke to him as a grandfather the language that babies can understand by saying don't eat this of course he did not tell him sadhaka and we are earning bait but of course he looked to the elders and said, We are in bait are not

allowed to eat dates because that date that fell was from Masada. So there is a lot that could be said about the role of grandfathers and also Selim is a role modeling that absolutely speaking to the children in their own language as well. We need to take a short break when we continue our last few minutes last segment with Dr. Sham getting some of the gems of the life of the prophet saw Selim back in a moment

I hope this has all been recorded

in years, and sometimes I will do an interview and then realize it has not been recorded. Oh, that's the worst we've done recordings in a studio and then it's saved on a laptop and a computer we next week something crashed

Yeah, hello

chef Abram was he wasn't happy.

Just continue

Okay, so something that's not in yet that if we have enough time to bring up is the very common saying with the promise loss and I'm said you know, the first few years play with a child these few years teach the child and then these few years be the child strain. I would just like Dr. Sham to comment on that. Fine if we have enough

because that's the only additional that I have.

If we have get through this

Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah very good day to you. This is voc 91.3 FM I'm Howard Solomon broadcasting live out in the borlange on the worldwide web, please do tune in on voc fm.co dot CIT a click on Listen Live and you can use wherever you are. Also note to to the producers as well you may contact them during office hours. And just check with him which link you can follow. And I think it's I o.fm for any of the shows that you have missed including this one. And you can download it and listen to it anytime you wish. You have it saved already. So we will continue our conversation with Dr. He Schaum already and hails from Kuwait has this very long CV but we're not going to

delegate into that we have so much important issues to chatterbot and beautifully. Dr. spoke about grandparents, grandparents, grandparents and the role in the children's lives and also elders how we need to respect and honor them as well.

Not the academics and nonagon so Insha Allah, may we take advantage of that time. So often we use superheroes and the modern sort of relevance of what's happening today to our children, these cartoon characters, how can we make Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam relevant and this habits relevant in our lives for our children every day, whether it be a bedtime story, whether it be a story of the Quran, just elaborate on adaptation is the highlight this is this has been one of my major difficulties and challenges. I cannot compete today as a speaker talking about the Sierra, I cannot compete with Hollywood, I can't compete with the movies that we are being bombarded with on a day to

day basis. Animations, you know, on a radio, I can't mention certain animations, otherwise, I'll be accused of making, you know, I myself when I take my children to animation movies, and I don't want to mention names here. I am thrilled by the it's amazing. You know, there is a verse in the Quran that says they know everything that is related to this dunya but they are so negligent and ignorant of the day of Alaska. I really, you know, Bill, have great faith in this verse, particularly when I watch animation. Why am I saying this? Because they are doing everything with focus concentration on perfection. In one of the animation that that I saw two weeks ago, they say that one scene took the

producer and the actors and the voice makers, maybe three, four months to do this scene. You see it in one minute. But it is that one minute that carries all the subliminal messages and your daughter goes back home, not remembering the entire movie. But remembering that specific minute you come and compare this to our animation, Islam Islamic animation. So slow the voices even sometimes they bring the voice of a girl the voice of a woman because they don't have enough girls, or the voice of a woman is a young girl because the voice of a woman is haram, all these issues that are creating an impediment. And then here I am a father coming and saying to my children. We can't go and watch this

movie because I'm going to sit down tell you now the story from the Sierra, how can I compete? And with all these movies, there has to be girlfriend, boyfriend dating, kissing, love, etcetera, etcetera. So it's a very difficult question. But one of the things that I do is to try to be equally as much as I can as animated as I can. Even with my students, even the courses that I did here in Cape Town, Johannesburg, as much as I can, visual, for example, it was extremely difficult to use PowerPoints, like in TED talks, and I'm sorry, he had to mention, you know, TED talk, but to you, how am I going to use PowerPoints to do with also sell, I want to talk about also selling in his 20s

and 30s. Okay, so how can I do PowerPoints about the Sierra or about Muhammad sossalamander I met with Mustafa Mustafa Todd is the director of the message and Omar Moscow. And of course, he passed away a few years ago, and I met him in London when I was a journalist and working for the BBC World Service at that time. And I said, Mr. Mustapha, how did you make the message and in you know, what sort of problems and issues and he said it was extremely difficult, and I said, there is also you know, you brought onto the queen. The queen is now instead of a famous Italian actor, should you didn't you fear that people will connect Hamza to Antony queen, it said he shall I'm listen, I

looked for many, many actors that could play the role of Hamza even in the Arab world with dark skinned whatever, speak Arabic, but Anthony queen, you know, regardless of not being a non Muslim, he had the charisma he had the aura And subhanAllah a lot of Muslims today know as Sierra love Hamza, because of Anthony queen. The point is that sometimes we need to use the tools that have been fortunately or unfortunately founded and innovated by the non Muslims. So in my PowerPoint, and maybe there is a tip here for teachers. When you teach the Syrah don't necessarily

be refrained or embarrassed from using images you will be if you think about the Sierra as personalities, but if you think about the Sierra as concepts, ideas, emotions, then you can reduce it to an image that reflects that concept or so for example, I'll give you an example. Very simple example. Give me i May I give an example? Yes, sure. Go ahead. Okay. So there is one incident in which aerosol Salamone, he was at the age of 34 encountered a fraud

For the people of Makkah, were building the cabin and came to a stumbling block as to which tribe will position the Blackstone in its position in the cabin. And for five days, they are arguing, and we're about to enter into a civil war, because they could not come to a solution. And in the process, they came up with this idea or solution that the first person who will approach them as they are sitting, they will use him as an arbitrator and see what he thinks. Here you have an issue or a problem where they need someone to think outside the box. And they encounter also Selim who was only 30, for not yet a prophet, and he comes up with this creative solution, he brings a cloth, and

he says, put the black stone in the middle of the cloth. Each tribe now brings forward the representative, each representative from that each tribe takes part of the cloth, and we raised the cloth together, as if all the tribes raised the black stone, and I'll take the Black Scholes tone, which was a meter above the ground, and position it in its place. So here you hear the story. When you go to Google, and Google the story, you find it all over the place, click on images, and you will find some non Muslim drawings, literally, of Muhammad SAW Sal in the middle, and all the people of college, and I cannot use this picture. But then I say to myself, why are you telling this story,

I am telling the story, to encourage the Muslims to be creative to think outside the box, and to provide society with services, even if that society was non Muslim. Ah, so here, it's about creativity. And here, then you have a bingo, you go to Google, you write creativity, you go to images, and you have all sorts of wonderful images, you pick up one, and you put it as your visual, and then you narrate the story. If we can do something like this, now, this is just a picture. But maybe you have someone like yourself, who's more acquainted with technology can use a video clip, can use musical impact can create this sort of a sound effect, geared towards creativity, and you

tell the story in your own animated, powerful

way, but backed up with colors, images, and sounds, maybe just maybe, and you're sincere and genuine and passionate and charismatic, just maybe children will be impacted now from my experience, when children find you genuine, and so eager to share a story with them. And of course, they see that you are a role model, not just telling them a story. And half an hour after that you slap them smack them in the house or your swear at your wife in front of them when they see a role model, it really has a great impact on them.

And I can definitely vouch as Dr. does hold some awards in 2013 for the innovative lecture, as well as in 2012. The faculty memberships are definitely getting the word out there. Mashallah. So with regards to our extended family, we know that they are they they need to be relevant within our lives. How do they play a role when it comes to raising children, and how rather did they play a role when it comes to raising children at the time of the prophets, Allah Allah. So today, the concept of extended family, extended family and I studied anthropology and sociology as extended family means, technically speaking, and historically means three generations living in a single

house. And that usually was the norm. 100 300 years ago, when you had an agrarian society, where every member of the family was needed. And the more children we have in our household, the better because they mean they will go cultivate the farm, collect the crops, and then we can take and sell in the market. But after the Industrial Revolution, of course, men had to migrate to the city live in little small flats. And of course, get married to a girl that he met in a factory or in the neighborhood. And you ended up having the phenomena of a new killer family, which is usually made up of one or two generations of code spouse, the spouse, the man and the wife, and a couple preferably

no more than a couple or maximum three children, because floods back then were were small.

And of course, with that transformation, eroded the values of the extended family. And now we have a challenge. We have a challenge. So where is the extended family? I think, and this is something I did again, I'm not flattering here, the people of the Muslims in South Africa. I have met people now who have what we call family businesses now all over the world, including in Kuwait, and in the Arab we have family businesses, but I've seen it here more visible. I have family I've seen family businesses, where you have the entire family holding a business now one of the things that divides members of the family is money, too.

and interests and life and duniya, et cetera, et cetera. But you will see these families so much united, so much wealthy, that not only do they prosper in their business, but they make schools, they build mosques.

You know, excuse me, I'm sorry to, but there is, you know, we visited the Cordoba Academy, for example, a fascinating place where the entire family lives in the academy. But they also have built residential areas, rental areas, they have built a mosque, they have built an academy. So you have this golden rule model of what families can do if united together. So my main message is that extended family is so crucial. Now in my book, entitled Mohamed Salah and how he can make you extra ordering there is an entire chapter about the extended family and the role that extended family played at the life of Rossella. When a child, so his mother dies at six, and then he is taken care

of by his grandfather, his grandfather dies when Mohamed Salah was at eight. His uncle then takes care of him from the age of eight until 25. And then I make the argument that every member of that extended family instilled environments also lend the child, the teenager, the adult at a particular value that really contributed to the development and the nurturing of his character. For example, he learns love and care, and kisses and hugging from his mother Amina. He learned leadership skills, and how to communicate with different tribes and adults from his grandfather Hashem, because Hashem was the caretaker of Makkah. And every year when there was pilgrimage, he used to be responsible for

providing the water for free for all the pilgrims. And you have to, you have to imagine how much water and we are talking about sometimes scarcity of water here in South Africa, how he would queue the people in one queue, how we manage resources, who was watching all this, and eight, nine years, seven years old, Mohammed, seeing how his Hashem also presumably would have told him, Oh, my grandson, you were born in this year, called the year of the elephant. I saw this year when Abraham came all the way from a be senior. And he was about to destroy a cabinet. And then he learns trade and merchant and traveling and he goes to Syria from his uncle, what's my point? My point is that,

unfortunately, children today have a very limited experience, because much of the experience they get are purely from their parents only, and the other they get from the social media, and from school and from the teacher. But where is the role of the extended family in actually filling up that gap, which was given to ourselves? Where is the role of the grandfather? Where can we have today an adult saying, I'm grateful for my father, for so and so grateful for my mother for so and so. But for that particular skill? I'm grateful for my uncle, I'm grateful for my art. Now. And in the book, I say, what about if the extended family is not anymore living in the same house, what if

they are in the same neighborhood or what if they are in a different city or today economic conditions different country, I say.

I say that today, new killer families should utilize the advancements in social media, we have WhatsApp, we have video conferencing, we have all these kinds of things. So you can contact your grandfather, even if he is in India, or in Malaysia or in straight Australia, make it a point. And then you mentioned something earlier, you said grandparents, they are here for a particular time, and after that they are gone. But even then, we can reignite the memories of the deceased by having an album. And why not a photo album. Why not make a family tree inside the house of album of photos. This is your grandfather, this is your grandma and make like a family tree. And every time bring it

once a week even bring the family together and narrate a story about each photo or a single photo and come up with particular skills that this person was famous for. Your grandfather was famous for being generous. Your grandmother was famous for cooking this beautiful dish, which would take hours and hours and we would consume it in two minutes. But nonetheless, he was patient. And don't just tell the story. Ha ha we love and go to bed. No. What does the story tell us? It tells us about the importance of patience and discipline and commitment. And here you have an example whereby the ground

Whether that is virtual and that he has never seen except in a photo, become a living role model for that parent does that Dr. Sham our time is literally up, I've got 30 seconds left, but I quickly went to squeezing their beautiful gems that we have to appreciate. Often and we are the brother sauce and I'm saying at this stage is for playing this stage is for teaching this stage is to be your child's friend in about 60 seconds, just elaborate on that. So in my book children around the Prophet which just come out, I speak about treating children as if you're building a particular building and every time you're adding a block. So the first block has to meet the block of emotional

block, love rapport, emotional credit, this is where you allow them to play, mess around, etc, etc. And then the second block, you come and nurture them, teach them advise them, give them feedback and the field, you discover their talent and you empower them, and you let them go, hoping that they will be better citizens even possible better than you have been.

Just going ahead, Dr. Hisham I already we appreciate your time in South Africa. We hope you do come and visit us soon. Have a safe safe travel and all this big picture cran and salami travel home. Thank you so much since the Hawa has been a wonderful interview and salaam to all the listeners in South Africa. Welcome salaam that was done