A MUSLIMJEWISH Discussion on the I$raeli-Palestinian Conflict EXCLUSIVE Interview with Dave Smith

Salam Alaikum peace Guess what I just had a chance to interview a very well known comedian. Before I start tonight. I just wanted to read a brief statement that I prepared. I denounce anti semitism in all its forms.

Can you buy yourself some time? Early in my career, I learned that there are two words in the English language that you should never say together and see what's in those words are the antiques. No, no, no, no, I'm not talking about Dave Chappelle. You're Muslim? I am. When did you become Muslim? 70. If you're like me, you've been watching the deen show. For now almost 20 years I love preserve our men Eddie and continue his work he is Allah has opened for him a new door. We went from

the deen show to the deen Center, which is going to be in Florida. And I've been rooting for this project. I support it. I urge you to support it too. We know this brother in his work. He's got a track record that speaks for itself. This center is going to be successful in sha Allah, as successful as the show is and all his other double works. Go to the website support it. And we look forward to seeing more good news coming out of there.

Or by some use, you have absolutely no sympathy for the Palestinian killing, even though the invitation is there for them. Come Come brothers. Let's sit Let's talk now I'm talking about Jewish and I'm Jewish comedian Dave Smith. World has had 1009 elevens day Smith went through early in his life believing all the mainstream propaganda talking points. But as a Jewish man, he really wished that they were true. And I'm Jewish, but now he's so passionate about what's happening in Palestine.

He's had so many different debates. He's even helped his good friend Joe Rogan, like they've destroyed so much. You've seen the footage, the recent footage, crazy mosques, it's not bombing mosques understand the situation in Palestine much, much better and clearer. And I'm Jewish. So like I grew up very much just only hearing the Israeli side of the story. Hope you guys enjoy because this is my interview with the Jewish comedian political commentator, Dave Smith

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faith of Islam show Welcome to the deen show. The dean show.

Reason please welcome to the D show. And we got a special episode here with a special guest, Dave Smith. Not only is he a comedian, political commentator, but he's a man of reason, and whose humanity is alive. And well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And I'm very happy to be talking with you. I want to thank you, thank you, I want to start off and commend you for having your humanity on, you know, and in this sad state that we see the world where we just have a modern

day genocide happening. And I was really impressed. I was watching how I got turned on to I was watching Joe Rogan, it's basically you can still get this in a Ben Shapiro video, you know, millions of people watch, but it really well, their story is just kind of like the Jews came here. And we just said, Hey, we want to be independent. And then in response to that the all the Arab nations attacked us, and then we just keep offering you peace. And they just keep saying no, and they just

want you know, we just want to live in peace, and they just want to kill Jews. And that's the story. And there's nothing else that you need to know, that's relevant here. But that's just so not true. And just really into the way you are presenting the history and you're going into remembered episodes. Oh, sure. Yeah, of course. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I don't I mean, I think it doesn't take too much to get there. You know, it's, I think that if people are being objective,

basically, if you if you value, human life, if you think all life is precious, I think you're going to end up coming to the conclusion that what's going on here is just wrong. Let me ask you this. Have you ever sat like this? Like, you're sitting you're Jewish? I'm Muslim, have you ever sat with a Muslim like this? I don't.

I don't think so. Are you scared?

I think you know, I grew up in New York City. There. Every there's everything there. You know, and we, but like every the art corner store was run by by Muslims. And they were all like, kind of, we were all very friendly and all kinds of loved each other, like, their kids played basketball with us and stuff. And so it was never been I don't think I've ever like sat down and had a conversation about the state of Israel and Palestine with with a Muslim. I do. I'll tell you this. I don't know

why this just sticks out in my mind. But so anyways, were these guys who worked at the bodega

down the street from me where I lived, and I knew them and I knew their kids, I'd know them for years. And we used to always kind of like bust each

other shops that was like the spirit of things in the 80s and 90s in New York City, but it was always with love. And I remember one day, I don't know how the topic came up, but something about Israel came up. And I was like 10 years old, or something like that. And I remember I said, the guy, the kid who was like, maybe 1516, he said something about Israel. And I said back to him, and I go, I go, What is Israel ever done to anybody? Because I've never heard. I didn't know anything about

the history. I just heard what you hear as an American Jewish kid growing up, and I went what Israel ever done to anybody. And he just looks at his father. And he goes, you see what they learn over here? You see, and his father was like, okay, okay, because he just didn't want any problems. Like we listen, we're running a business here. I'm not trying to like start up a huge fight. But I remember just having this moment where I saw that, you know, and I was like, What? What is he like

thinking that I like don't know. This, by the way, did not inspire anything. I didn't like go and start reading about it. I was a 10 year old kid, I went and played basketball. But years later, when I started learning the history of it, I do remember thinking back to that moment, and being like, oh, what must that be like, from his perspective? To have someone over here in America, just be totally ignorant of the situation and just assume But Israel? Israel's the good guys, right? And

then he has to bite his tongue, because his dad's like, okay, don't cause any problems for our business right now. But yeah, anyway, years later, I did some reading and I found out that there's actually quite a lot but they've done it reminded me when you're talking about okay, New York, you with the Muslims, you know, a grocery store. They're a part of the community there and people are getting along distended what it reminded me of a rabbi, Rabbi Weiss, and Shapiro and others who

would kind of go into the history and they would narrate the same thing that at one point in time, believe it or not, in Jerusalem, you had Muslims, Christians, and Jews, and particularly Jews and Muslims who were there together, and they were living in a relative peace, they were watching each other's kids, and everything was good, until Zionism came about Jews flourished as distinctly religious Jewish communities. And they weren't massacred. On the contrary, they went to these Arab

Muslim lands, to escape persecution, from the Crusades, from the Inquisition, and from many other trials and tribulations and the end, even World War Two, the Arab and Muslim lands, opened their hearts open the lines, and provided a safe haven and a gracious hospitality for the Jewish people will respected and even the Muslim religion requires of that of the the Muslim people to to provide protection and hospitality and they did carry that out. That's clear. Nobody could refute this. Yes.

Well, I mean, if you if you read the, the early Zionist writing, a lot of that actually comes across there. Obviously, they they picked Palestine because of their, you know, connection to the Torah and stuff like that religious reasons, but a lot of they don't, they don't mention Arabs that much in the early Zionist writings. And when they do, they mentioned them on kind of friendly terms. And there, there's this tremendous

ignorance or naivete about them. Because these guys had never been to Palestine. These were all Eastern European Jews who were talking about what's in their book, but they had never actually been there. And they didn't know these people. And so there were these assumptions that were very silly at, you know, like, well, the Arabs could just maybe move there. There's so many Arabs there, they could go to all these other Arab states, but that'd be you know, it's as ridiculous as being like,

well, a Dutch person could just go to England. I mean, they're all white, right? Like, who cares? Or they're all They're all European or whatever, which is, you know, obviously silly. There's many differences between those cultures. But the point is, that one of the reasons why they like this is because they relatively speaking, the the Turks, the Ottoman Empire, the Arab world had been pretty cool. To the Jews, they didn't face nearly the persecution that they faced in Europe. And that's

that's who the early Zionists are writing in response to is the pilgrims in in Eastern Europe. And so yeah, that's right. There's there had been Jewish people living in Palestine and relative harmony. I'm not saying like, nothing violent ever happened, but relatively speaking. Yeah, that's right. And, you know, as we were just talking about before we started recording, there is this narrative now that gets created that this is the Jews verse, the Muslims, and that's just not true.

That doesn't represent in I mean, I'm not saying there aren't any Jews who hate Muslims, or there aren't any Muslims who hate Jews, but there's so many on both sides who don't don't have that attitude at all. And I think that's important for people to understand. And that's why you know, I was being facetious when I just made your comedian so that I can joke with you Are you scared but they're trying to have people now that were fearing each other now, for Jews, Muslims if you're a

Jew Jews fear most

slums and to have this division now when you had at one point, I mean, and that's why I think these conversations are important. You know, like you said, you never actually sat and talk with a Muslim, you know, to talk to understand each other to reason to go ahead and, and bring the human element to it. Because now what we're seeing in Palestine, they're trying to make the Palestinian like their animals now, right. We talked a little bit about that. But what did it for you? What did it for you

that you actually and I heard you say I'm Jewish. And I wish the Israelis were right. So it's not easy for you? It would make life easier for me like with family members and stuff like that. Yeah, sure. Let's get this across the board as a Muslim, this is not if this was happening to Jews. I don't know if you've ever been to Harvard? No. Okay. If you want Harvard in Law Section, there's a verse of the Quran that says, talking about justice. So we're taught to be just even if against our

own family members, our own selves, our own community, justice is a key principle in Islam. So if we're seeing an injustice happening to no matter who it is, we're supposed to stand up against that injustice, right. Just to make that point clear. Right? Well, okay, so for me, I got really interested in, in politics in 2007 2008, when Ron Paul was running for president, and the centerpiece of Ron Paul's campaign. And what really made him famous was this moment, this famous

moment he had with Rudy Giuliani, where they were arguing at one of the debates. And what Ron Paul was arguing was that the George W. Bush narrative, which was the dominant narrative, right after 911, was that they hate us for our freedom. And that's why you have this issue with radical Muslim terrorists who want to come over here and kill us because we're afraid and and look it like if that's true. But like, like, if there is this group that wants to kill you just because you're free?

Well, then what's the answer? I mean, there's no other answer other than we better kill them before they come kill us. And so at least it leads you to turn your brain off and go, Well, there's no other option except war. But what Ron Paul was arguing was that that's just not true. It's not true that people hate us, because we're free, which, you know, for any human being once you stop and think about that doesn't really sound right, anyway. But he goes, No, they hate us, because we've

been over there, and they hate us, because we've been bombing their countries, because we've been propping up brutal dictators, because we have our military bases and their holy land. This is their, this is their beef. And as soon as he said that, it, it was like, Well, that does make a lot more sense than it does me. And then I started just reading about it. And I realized he was completely right. And you could read this, in their own words, that this is what the terrorists were saying,

was the reason for for hating us, you know, Sama, Bin Laden's letter to America, he says, Why do we attack you because you attack us? And that this was, and when you started to understand that there's something I mean, there's something tragic about it all. But there's also something kind of beautiful in the sense that you realize that it's like, oh, this actually really makes us more similar than different. Because really, what was the whole attitude in America after 911? It was

like you came in hit us. And now we're gonna go hit you back. And then you realize you're like, oh, that's the same attitude that they have. And once you kind of realized that there's more that that we have in common, then that separates us, then then, you know, if the if they hate us for our freedom, then there's no other answer, but war. But if we're actually all kind of more similar than different, there's a path toward peace. You go, oh, well, maybe if we stopped doing this to them,

then they wouldn't want to do this back to us. And so there's something beautiful in there. And anyway, in the years following that, I just got totally obsessed with libertarianism and, and the history of war and other stuff to economics and things like that, too. But then I started really

reading about the history of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And it was I'll just say, wildly different than the narrative that I had been presented. Growing up. I remember when you're sitting with Joe Rogan. And then you had mentioned this, and then you went into you said, Okay, this is what the slogan, this is what we're being fed that they also something like, they just want to eradicate the Jews, because I'm Jewish. So like, I grew up very much, just only hearing the Israeli side of

the story. And it's basically you can still get this in a Ben Shapiro video, you know, millions of people watch, but it really well, their story is just kind of like the Jews came here. And we just said, Hey, we want to be independent. And then in response to that, the all the Arab nations attacked us, and then we just keep offering you peace. And they just keep saying no, and they just want you know, we just want to live in peace, and they just want to kill Jews. And that's the story.

And there's nothing else that you need to know that's relevant here. But that's just so not true. What were you saying as well, and then you went into the then you you informed Joe, actually what was going on? You were very well versed in the history and everything. Well, I've read a ton about it. I think I've read all the

Ask people and some have and some bad people on it. But there's, there's always the slogans, the Israeli slogans, you know, it was a people without land for a land without peace. That's one of the that's one of the slogans that like as if there were no people living there or something which is just I it's

it's a an objective claim that can be tested and you can prove that there were in fact people there, it's just factually false. And they also say, you know, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. There's no partner for peace. But the more you examine it, just none of that's actually right. It's not true. And then there's very strong historical evidence that in fact, there were many times where they had a partner for peace, that they that also that they have never the Palestinians

have never really been given an opportunity. Exactly. But this the story, basically, the way it's presented in the West, and this is changing dramatically. Now, of course, because their shows like this and their shows like mine, yes. Well, there's not like a monopoly of the control of information the way there always was. But the story would basically be, they go, Well, look. So you had some Jews, and some Arabs all living in this strip of land, and the Jews wanted to have their own state,

and they declared independence, and then all of the surrounding Arab countries attacked them. And now the Jews just want to live in peace. But they get these rockets fired at them all the time. And so don't they have a right to defend themselves? That's essentially, I'm not really caricaturing it. That's essentially what gets told to Americans, or what has been told to them for many, many decades. And sure, if that were the story, then it totally makes sense to just blindly support

Israel, because like, yeah, they have a right to exist and ever. But again, it's just that is a funhouse mirror version of what really happened. It goes back to where we started earlier, where you're talking about, okay, that same statement, I was for the Iraq War, talking about that. They just hate us because of our, our freedoms and our way of life. You said something really powerful, I shared it, and people are like, man, you gotta get this guy on the show. You said something about?

Well, they've had 1009 elevens, Muslim world has had 1009 elevens. And if you sit here and go, Look, just imagine, try to imagine the really genuine here, okay, because we're gonna see it, we're so much better than the Islamic world and imagine, not one 911. But 1009 elevens happened here? What would that look like? And then let's say after 1009, elevens happened here, let's say whoever around in it, and then ran invades, and they overthrow our government, and they prop up their own

government. And now they rule us. What do you think the like, the toughest right wing militia members in America would be doing? They'd be throwing Molotov cocktails through their government building, they'd be running up suicide bombing themselves. And I bet they'd yell something about Jesus before they did it too, because they probably start clinging to their religion. So I'm just saying that, like, if we're unwilling in this in this debate in this divide, to try make a real

effort to put ourselves in their shoes, and go, what would we do in that situation? Something like that. Yeah, remember? Yeah, well, that's right. Exactly. Well,

you know, Laura Loomer. It was in the debate with her. Yeah. And she was saying something about, you know, how, you know, because it's easy to look, especially from a Western perspective, it's easy to look at any of the most radical elements of Islam and say, Well, look, look how horrible this is. Right? And I was just making the point that I was like, Well, look, look how much America lost their minds after 911. We got hit with a 911. And we just launched these catastrophic wars, that, again,

not even against the people who did 911 against the Taliban, who was I mean, the Taliban was as guilty as a landlord who rents an apartment to somebody who killed someone, you know what I mean? Like, you don't go after the landlord for that. And I don't know, I just rented this guy in apartment, what did you know, and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with with 911. And not to mention, neither did Moammar Qaddafi, or Bashar Al Assad, or, you know, the Houthis in Yemen, or any

of the people who we've, you know, conducted military campaigns against in since then. And we lost our mind like that after one 911. So, you know, I'm just saying if you just look at it in terms of like numbers of people, like a few 1000 people got killed, but what, what would any imagine 1009 elevens happened and how, you know, just how much that would throw this country into chaos and all of that. So all I'm saying is like, if you're going to look down with judgment against any of these,

these countries will consider what's been done to them. I think that's reasonable to say, okay, like, yes, if that had been done to us, we would also have some problems going around. And but, and of course, what would happen in that environment is the most radical voices and

up being elevated, and that two people rally around in the same way that Americans rallied around George W. Bush, who was saying, we're gonna go get all you guys, because when you're hit and you're vulnerable, and you're scared, you look for a protector. So whoever the strongest guy around you is, and quite oftentimes that's not the person advocating peace, that's the person advocating aggression. And then to see you be a voice of reason, and to see you even at that time, why do you

think it is most people, they're not just using their critical thinking skills, and you know, looking, and just swallowing the narrative, you know, and not and right now, we the slogan was, for a long time, you know, you had this evil event that happened, the Holocaust, something that was evil that was, and then after that, it was like, never again, and this was supposed to be something that's across the board. We don't want to see that tiny group of people. But we're seeing it in 4k.

So that's so never again, it was like, Okay, well, how does that now, when you're talking to, let's say, colleagues, friends, you know, your people reactions to some of the things that you're saying, How has been the feedback? It's, you know, it's been a mixed bag. I mean, it's obviously it's a very hotly, you know, emotional issue. And I think that the, I've certainly had some people who were very upset with me for taking this position, I don't really care about that. The personal stuff like

family members and stuff like that, that's been more, you know, difficult. But then I've also had a tremendous response of people who really appreciate that I didn't kind of buckle on my principles in this situation, just because it's such an emotional one. Because the truth is like, these are my principles across the board. I mean, even when, whatever the situation might be, if any, government was like, as you said before, if any government was doing this to any other group of people, I would

condemn that. And when there have been like, I'm a libertarian, by by definition, I believe all governments are criminal organizations. And there have been plenty of Muslim governments that have done awful things. I've been highly, highly critical of what the Saudis have done to the people of Yemen over the last eight or nine years. I mean, it's just absolutely inexcusable. And now, of course, the US was backing that war as well. But I think that

my you know, I'm, as a man, as a father, I think that my, my job has to be to tell the truth, tell the truth, as I see it, and that let the chips fall where they may, I kind of decided a long time ago, that's what I'm going to do. And so I try to do that in this situation as well. And it's not that I'm not sitting here and saying that, like, there's more radical positions than what I take on this. I'm certainly not sitting here and saying that no Arab has ever done anything wrong. And in

this long conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, that there's never been anything wrong done on the other side, and I, I absolutely, condemn any, like any aggression towards civilians, I do not think is legitimate, even if you're being occupied, even if you're being dominated, I think it is, it is not justified to kill or to hurt innocent civilians. I now I can also understand that I can say that with the benefit of sitting 1000s of miles away, and not being in that situation. But

you know, I have I have two little kids. And if somebody ever hurt one of my little kids, I'm, I could see how I might get to a place where I'm ready to go hurt your kid to get back at you. I'm not saying that's justified. It's not, but you can also understand it. I also think, just for strategic reasons, I think that the Palestinians embrace of terrorism in many different stages of this conflict has been a strategic failure. I think that

terrorism has been embraced in many terrorism as a response to occupation has been embraced in many parts of the world before and also by the way for people to know the history by Zionists in in Israel right before the creation of Israel, the Zionist, we're committing acts of terrorism groups

are gone and Hygiena was the biggest one. And then there's the other a couple others are Stern, they're actually state

United States terror.

Are they? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they were they were openly talking about how they embrace terrorism as a tactic. And this did help to drive the British out. The I think the main strategic error and I'm not talking morality here, I'm just saying the strategic error is that the the use of terrorism to drive out the French or the British, like a colonial power is different than dealing with settler colonialism where these people are not going back anywhere. The whole mission is to make this there

her home country. And so I think that backfired. I also think there were her there were atrocities committed by Palestinians. But if you look at the history of the situation as a whole, what you can't get away from is that the story here is that a group of Europeans decided they wanted to create a state in the land where there were already occupants who had been living there for 1000s of years. And they came in, and they essentially, from the beginning, started kicking them out. And a

lot of people on the Zionist side, they'll try to kind of spin this thing where it's like, well, before 1947, the Jews were buying the land. And when you live in, say, like a capitalist society, like we live in, when you say, buying the land, that what you immediately think of is like, oh, that's peaceful. You know, I bought my house from the last person who owned by house. And that means we both agreed on a price and he moved his stuff out, and I move my stuff in. And now it's

legitimately my house. But that's not the history. And because it wasn't a capitalist system, it was much closer to like a feudalist system under the Ottoman Empire. And the way it worked was basically the Ottomans just claimed ownership of the entire thing. And then they would basically bribe tribal leaders by giving them plots of land. Now, on these plots of land, there were people who had built homes and who had built farms, and were living there. And some, you know, maybe someone from Beirut,

would come in and say, Hey, I got this piece of paper, this is my plot of land. And the local Palestinian would say, Well, what do you mean, I built a house, I'd been living here, and they'd say, Well, I own it, and you better give me 10% of what you make every year, if you want to live here. So they basically kind of, you know, bully them into robbing a little bit of money from them. But when the Jewish fund came out, and they said, because they had big international financing,

backing them, and they said, Hey, listen, if you're a Jew, anywhere, we will pay your way and buy you land if you go join this project and move to Palestine. So they would pay them. And then but the condition was, you cannot have an Arab on that land, they can't even work the land. And so now rather than someone from Lebanon, or coming over and make this condition, this was the Jewish fund, the international fund that would pay for your your way, but you could not have an Arab on the land.

So now it's not just some, because they wanted to create a Jewish homeland and they want they knew from the very beginning that transfer, as they call it would be an essential part of this project. It's not like the common slogan. That's the only democracy. Well, yeah, I mean, if you overlook, you know, if you overlook a whole lot of other elements, then you could kind of call it a democracy, like if you just look in here, but don't zoom out here. You could say it's a democracy. But But

anyway, so So now, it's not just some guy from Lebanon coming over and saying, Hey, I claim my own this, even though it's totally illegitimate by any like modern, Western capitalist standpoint, it's not legitimate ownership of land, but he says, Hey, you gotta give me 10%. I mean, that's one thing that you get shaken down for 10%. But now, it's a Zionist settler, saying, Hey, I own this land. Get out. You know, this, this house that you built, or your grandfather built? That's mine. Now, I'm

kicking you out of it. You can't even work the land here anymore. I won't even give you a job on this morning. What example if you flipped out for us here, Americans living if someone came over, and was like, doing the same exact thing and said, the British Empire gave me this piece of paper that says, I own your house, you got the British Empire doesn't even exist anymore. Because this is after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. This was happening. It was an old piece of paper from the

Ottoman Empire, they had collapsed this post World War One, they've collapsed already. So so that's how that that's when they refer to oh, they were just buying land. So you can see clearly anyone, if you would anything like in the tradition of Western liberalism, classical liberalism or libertarianism, like if you read John Locke, this is not the people who homesteaded the land are the rightful owners of it, not the people who had some piece of paper from some colonial empire that's

dead. That made no sense. But so this started building up a lot of tension. And there's just a lot of there was conflict back and forth. But again, zooming out, what happened is, a group of Europeans decided they wanted to set up a state in an area where that was already inhabited. And that first through this buying land process started moving them out. And then of course,

fast forward to 47. The United Nations a group of European powers, no one within 1000s of miles of I forget the exact numbers, but it's not like all the closest members who were like anywhere near Palestine all voted against the partition recommendation. The Europeans decided that since what happened to the these people in Europe was so bad that they should get the majority of this land that had already been inhabited. And then when this went when creating the State of Israel came into

existence, because I know there's a lot of people like I just heard Benny Morris the other day and he's our

During like, yes, there was talk of transfer, but it wasn't necessarily inherent. And if the Arabs had taken the partition recommendation, then maybe there wouldn't have been this transfer. But all of that is irrelevant. That's what would have maybe happened, none of us know what would have happened if things had been done differently. But what did happen was that in the ballpark of 750,000,

Arabs, were either forcefully kicked out or fled and weren't allowed back. So they were in effect at ethnically cleansed out of this area. And basically, I've been refugees ever since. And then in 1967, Israel took obviously control of the West Bank and Gaza. And they've had it the whole time. And you can get lost in the minutiae of every little thing. And you go through the first anti fraud or the second anti fraud or any of this, but the bottom line is that these people have lived under

totalitarianism since 1967. And that is unacceptable. And you can spin anything. I mean, you get into many of these things, and you'll see things being spun. But if you look at human rights organizations, even Jews who like you, yourself, you have your humanity on tour, I have you seen the film Ventura? I have not? Yeah. You have the historian that you mentioned earlier, what was poppin, on Poppy and others academics? It was a Jewish historian with the Torah film, actually, he was a

film writer, or academic. And he came out and he collected all of these reports of what was happening in these in this town, no, just one town over the many. And these atrocities that were that were happening. And then they went after him. So what really gets, you know, people to think is why would you have people like yourself, you're Jewish, Jewish historians, active people on the ground there who just are seeing the injustice, you know, it's part of our nature to to be against

injustice is and they're coming out. Look, I used to be a Zionist, as you mentioned, I'm a Holocaust survivor. Zionism was very important for me as a salvation of the Jewish people.

Until I found out that the state was founded, based on the extra patient, the explosion and multiple massacres of the local population. And that's not historically controversial, you know, and then you have these human rights organization is the international human rights organization is in Israel calling an apartheid state that it is the UN saying that is occupied? Well, I mean, do you spend that stuff? Well, it's very, you know, because there's one more. There's one more you mentioned,

when you were talking that I was really disappointed because I was kind of I was telling you before I was planning to have RFK on the program. We have been speaking back then when he had the Instagram, Instagram still. And then to hear him talking to you deeply disappointed, and frankly, kind of dumbfounded by your position on Israel's war in Gaza. And when there was many points, solid points, things that you were bringing up one of them was you he brought up the meeting at the was a

Camp David, and then you just shut that down so beautifully. You talked about there was a book by a Schweizer Swisher swiftly Clayton to switch to football camp. Read Clayton switchers book, The Truth About Camp David, this guy went around and spent three years interviewing everyone, everyone who was a part of those negotiations. And the official story that Arafat just walked away and he had such a good offer, but he wouldn't take it is not true. And all of the players involved admit this. And

then the actual this just blew my mind. You quoted Israeli prime minister who said I wouldn't even take that deal. Lomo bene me. The Israeli Foreign Minister during the negotiation said, if I was a Palestinian, I never would have taken the deal. We were offering them well, it was the it was Shlomo benami the foreign minister, and he was a foreign minister during the camp, David negotiations, where he's acting, that's one of those things that they bring up. So they're always there against

peace. They don't want peace. They just want to eradicate the Jews.

And look, this is this is true from like the all throughout Israeli history is that there's examples over and over and over again, of the top level, Israeli officials admitting it and admitting not just that, there's this great I learned this from Darrell Cooper has a an amazing podcast series. It's a real time investment. It's somebody recommended a gentleman Yes, it's like I think it's like between 26 to 30 hours. It's basically a book on tape. But he is just so brilliant and just know so

much about the history called it's called Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem. People can go and listen to this for free. Yes, yes, it's free. It's a martyr made podcast is the name of the podcast. It's really just so well done. And I'll tell you something about it. What's really amazing about it, too, is that he's really

ought he's really not taking sides. He's really telling you the story. And he's also saying, like, hey, look, put yourself in their position, put yourself in the position of someone who was the victim of pogroms and the victims of the Holocaust and all of this and there and you may get to a certain point where maybe you're just sick and tired of being the victim. And let's not worry about okay, yeah, this may not exactly be right. But what we're gonna get killed if we don't do this, and

then put yourself in the position of people who are living in this landing, then get this. And he just goes through the history, but there's lots of little nuggets that were very interesting from it. Things I didn't know even though I had read a lot about this, but so there's this one.

Example In So in 1956, Moshe Dayan, who, famously, he is known for being he was the defense minister during the 1967 War, but this is before a few years before that. This is in 56. And there was a there was an Israeli lieutenant who got killed by a couple Arabs right outside of Gaza. And Moshe, Moshe Dayan gave his eulogy at his funeral. And he's saying this from a pro Israel perspective, he's not like a pro Palestinian by any sense of the word. But he says, in this eulogy, he says, To the

effect, it's this is pretty close to the quote, egos, let us not judge the Arabs who, who killed this lieutenant, because how could we blame them? We drove them from their land, and now they're sitting in refugee camps watching us build a land on what was previously their land. Of course, they're gonna hate us. We'd hate him to if they had done that to us. And he goes on to justify it. He's like, but you know, this is correct. And so we must create the State of Israel, if that's what

it costs, what it costs. But he admits right there, they don't hate us for our freedom. They hate us because we drove them off their land.

A hood, Barak, former Israeli prime minister said, if I was a young Palestinian, I would be a terrorist, too, I would join one of these terrorists, who's saying that it was Ehud Barak, former prime minister or prime minister before Benjamin Netanyahu. And so there's countless examples of stuff like this. And so that's the point I was wanting to Shlomo Ben to me said, I wouldn't have taken this deal if I was Palestinians, either. That's such a bad deal. But then it gets spun, like,

oh, we offered them everything. And they just wouldn't take it. And so look, it's it's the at the end of Darryl Cooper's podcast, the conclusion that he comes to, which I know people will laugh off or dismiss me Don't laugh at. But dismiss is like naive. But he was just making the point that look, these two people, the Jewish people, and the Palestinian people, they have a deeply interwoven history at this point, you know, and there's just kind of no getting away from that. And there,

whatever the solution to this problem, like a peaceful solution, is, it's never going to be perfect. It's not going to be what everybody wants, but it to just start with at least in admission, that look, this happened. And it was wrong. It is actually a very powerful thing. And that there is at least some type of reconciliation of acknowledging that this did happen. It was wrong. Okay, we have to move forward from here in the same sense, you know, a lot of people will say to me, when I start

talking like this, they'll go, they'll go, oh, so Dave, are you saying we should give the land back to the Native Americans in America? And it's like, well, no, that's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying it was wrong, what was done to them. And we can acknowledge that, and for any native Americans who are still around, they should have their rights protected, they should not live under totalitarianism. And I do not take the position as I'm sure some people do. And I understand where

there would be some Arabs who would take this position that basically all of it should be returned to the Palestinians. And that, you know, from the river to the sea ought to all be Palestine. Of course, there are Zionists who take the position that from the river to the sea on Albie Israel, I'm not taking that position. I'm saying that, look, we're generations later at this point. And as history is, is riddled with injustices, and you can't go back and undo every single one of them. But

you can at least some point say, Look, this occupation has to end this war in Gaza right now has to end the idea that you your has to be some type of compromise, where you recognize that it's like, okay, I don't think Israel's going anywhere. Although, you know, if they keep pushing it like this, maybe they actually might put themselves in jeopardy, because they are turning international opinion against them so rapidly at this point. But I think there is I don't believe that it's impossible for

there to be a peaceful solution to this. And I think that actually, there were lots of opportunities in the past where that really could have happened. I saw you very frustrated. I was also watching you talk with

debate with with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. I was I was someone who admired some of his previous work and to see him someone

Who's environmentalists to see someone who's kind of

he had that humanity that was on with many other issues but with this now to even use his voice to say ceasefire stop yeah he's asking you you know some questions that

I would just saw surprised I was shocked that he was trying to also equate the Palestinians the Jews there the Zionist there with an indigenous people like the Native Americans it's unbelievable. Oh my god, it's just it's just painful to watch and trying to equate Hamas to the Nazis as if there's any real comparison to that, you know, I I said to him, but what uh, you know, the Nazis controlled almost all of Europe and Hamas doesn't even control Gaza. How do you even make this comparison? And,

and then he opened up and he said, pretty much that

summarizing what he said, it's pretty much he said, The ideology, but he's pretty much saying this is Islam for Jews, pretty much. It's an ideology driven conflict that's not territorial and has no negotiating position. And then he made it he left the impression that it was just they want to kill all Jews, that his committed the genocide of all Jews, not only in Israel, but all over the world. And I want to just put this to rest. This is something as a Muslim. We talked about the history

there, that they were. And we have orthodox rabbis and others, you know, historians who documented that Palestinian groups leaders military group saying, we have nothing against Jews, we tolerate Jews, we live with us 1000s of years together, the 300,000 people left Spain, why did they leave to China, Japan, Australia, now, the left to Turkey, the left to Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Albania, the Second World War, was a small Muslim country. And they had few 1000 Jews, the German Nazi

Germany has occupied Albania. But non single Jew was killed in Albania in a way that Muslims have worked hard in the Jews. They were hiding in the mosques, in basements, in in all types of places, and they saved all these 5000 Jews in Albania. We're going to live together as the same as it was everywhere as the same as Jews lived in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, in Iran till now peacefully with harmony without any problems in Jerusalem was somewhat a place of peace. Okay, you might have

isolated incidents, I'm sure any other but I don't know if you know the story of Ahmad, the second Caliph of Islam.

When the Jews were, it's a very interesting story. It's documented that when the Jews were forbidden from being in Jerusalem, and he conquered, you know, this is before Salah Do you and he conquered this area.

So Fronius was the person that was the person in charge from the Christian side. And then he said, where the Jews at? And he said, we drove them out. And he ended up

repopulating, bringing in 70 or someone 80s families and he repopulated the community of the Jews. He says, Where's the Hallett? And the guy on the cattle goes like this, he nods his head at the guy leading the camel. So it's the funniest turns to the guy leading chemicals. Where's the Hallett and the guy leading camel says, I'm the hairless. And so funniest goes, dude, you're dressed in rags.

The guy's pants were hit or mended multiple times, his shirt was mended multiple times. And he was done on Halloween. And so funniest goes, you've just conquered Iraq and Syria, and all of Palestine minus Jerusalem. How is it you're so poor? And health goes, Well, why would I collect wealth? We're not doing this war because I'm trying to plunder anything.

I'm a humble man with humble needs. I just need a good meal. And then it's the funniest goes, were you riding the camel? And oh my god. That's my servant on the camel. We take turns so that neither one of us gets exhausted

at this point, so for instance, like Oh, what, who just conquered us? And then somebody goes, Oh, but you're gonna like seize property in the city. And the Caliph goes, no, no, we're not going to take anybody's property. We're going to leave the city exactly like it is. The only thing I want to do is eject the Roman politicians

with whatever they can carry.

And so finance because there's nothing to negotiate. Yeah, we surrender the city this instant.

I don't understand actually.

At that point, the Caliph says, I want to see the Temple Mount.

That's

for his cause, why?

And how it goes because it's Holi its Holi everybody is holy, the Christians, it's holy to Jews, it's holy to Muslims. And so funny is because now we haven't been treating it as holy that anybody.

And oh my god, what do you mean? And so Stefania says. So after we tore down the Second Temple of Solomon, when we conquered Palestine,

and returned the temple mount into a garbage jump, to punish the Jews.

It's the Halak goes, What do you mean? And so far this goes, yeah, we've been there's like 500 years of refuse on that thing. It's just the garbage dump.

And you'll show me they walk up to the Temple Mount, in the hell of can't believe what he's looking at. He falls on his knees, and he begins clearing the garbage by His hands. His army sees their leader on his knees clearing garbage and they run up and they start clearing the garbage themselves.

And they clear the garbage off the Temple Mount.

how life goes, Okay?

I want to meet some of the Jews living in Jerusalem. And so funny because there are no Jews in Jerusalem.

And the half goes, What do you mean, there's no Jews in Jerusalem, the city is holy to the Jews. How can there be no Jews? And he says, well, as Christians, we pretty much murder them every chance we get we really hate Jews. In fact, in the war we just did against the Persians, the Jews sided with the Persians. And so we murdered 20,000 Jews in Jerusalem, and completely purge the city of its remaining Jewish population.

And Omar America, Tom goes, No, this is wrong, you can't do this.

And so he turns to a convert to Islam, a Jewish convert Islam, and he says, I need you to find me at Jewish families that were willing to volunteer to move to Jerusalem so we can reestablish the Jewish presence in the city.

And that's how the Muslims conquered Jerusalem.

And that's the stuff that's left out of your history books. So my question is, if Muslims hated Jews, and if it was a part of the ideology, one during the Holocaust, where did the Jews flee? Where did they flee? If you have places in Albania and Bosnia where my family's from to this day, you have Jews in Turkey and places it wasn't in? Was it in Algeria, where they protected the Jews? And

when the Nazis were trying to get him in moss, yeah, you know, forging documents. So from that, if it was a part of the ideology of Islam, to hate Jews, why would they, when the Nazis are coming, knocking on the door saying, give up the Jews, they're actually like to protect the White doesn't make any sense. So it's clearly not inherent in the religion. Right, I would challenge you know, someone like and it's not, you know, this other person that you debated. She also has to hate to be

set up to be a devout Muslim, you have to hate Jews. So these are the kinds of things and then people actually they hear this, and then they're just like, is that true? Is that for real? And then you start developing this fear. That's why I asked you to be you scared.

So but when you really know history, when you read when you study, this is something that also when you look at, you know, Muslim is allowed to marry and you Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. This is basic stuff. Right? Prophet Mohammed, he had two Jewish wives.

I didn't know that, you know. And so the point is, if you're allowed to marry a Jewish woman, yeah. And you're supposed to hate her at the same time that marriage is not going to work. Well. It's kosher food you're allowed to eat. Would you have halal meat, if it's kosher food we're allowed to eat? Jews can actually pray in a mosque, they cannot pray in a church. And if you do that, so these are just basic points that people knew these the other the most honored woman in Islam is a Jewish

woman, you know, her net what her name is, Mary. Right, right. Right. Okay. Yeah, the whole chapter named after in the Quran. So this is nonsensical. Yes. We hated injustice. Yes, there was people, there was groups who did treachery, that's different story, we can talk about that. But in a general context, this is anti Islam to be anti Jewish. That's very interesting. And you know, I think that it's kind of like it's very similar to the the narrative after 911 that they hate us for our

freedom. And so if that's true, then you have to throw your hands up in the air and there's no nothing you can do to solve that. And in a similar sense, if it were inherent to Islam to hate Jews, well then no

I mean, we can't really solve that problem. And so it's nice to, it's actually very helpful to learn that that's not the case. And I remember, you know, like, I want to, I want to I want to show a $10,000 or more challenge to that lady, that lady or anyone else, because she said, it's all over the Quran more than in camphor.

There's some money on the table, if you can go and find it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't think you're gonna get a response from that. But it's good. It's a good offer to put out there. I mean, I remember one of the things that I read about was

after 911 went after I got into Ron Paul, and all this stuff in, you know, is that they hate us for our freedom thing. And I thought it was very interesting that when, after World War One, when the US formed the king crane commission, and they went into the Middle East. And they were doing like, mass surveys. And they were trying to figure out who Syria wanted to rule them under a League of Nations mandate. And they overwhelmingly went for the United States of America, because they liked America.

They didn't like the British and the French because they had been colonizing them. But America was like the city on a hill and they owe their about freedom, we would like them. And so it was like, oh, no, they didn't hate us for our freedom. They actually loved us. Have you watched whatever they thought we were for a documentary called Dirty Wars? Yes. Yeah. Jeremy Scahill. Yeah, okay. You've seen that documents, you got people not having wedding, they're hanging out in their farms or cave.

Wherever in Afghanistan next, you know, you got a drone from 10,000 miles up blowing up your family blowing up the wedding, you're gonna create some enemies? Yes, exactly. That's right. And anybody would respond in that way. And look, think of the the amount of anti Muslim feelings that arose in America after 911. You know, this is it's a, it's not justified, it's not fair to blame all Muslims for what a group of Muslims did. However, it is also a very predictable, human predictable human

outcome, that if you're attacked by a group of people, the level of resentment against that group of people is going to rise. And so this is also what I've been saying, from the very beginning, I was like, Look, if you're actually concerned about anti semitism, if you're concerned about people hating Jews, well, then what Netanyahu is doing is the worst thing you could possibly do, because this is guaranteed to make more people hate Jewish people, you know, like just, and I'm not again,

I'm not saying that's justified. But like, if you live in a neighborhood, and a bunch of black people come in and start beating people up, is the level of prejudice against black people going to go up or down, it's going to go up, because that's the way human beings are, unfortunately. And so if you actually wanted to create a world with less less Jew hatred, then you'd be completely against the way they've been conducting this war in Gaza. And then, of course, the other thing, and this has

been true for the history of Zionism is that they kind of have this weird symbiotic relationship with hatred of Jewish people. And in fact, they kind of like it and kind of benefit from it. And they because look, so even at the beginning of the rise of the Nazis, there were many of the Zionists at the time, who were kind of pleased with that. Because what it was they were telling, they were telling all the Jews to leave Europe. And that's the same thing. The Zionists were telling

them like, yeah, leave Europe and come here. That's the more inhospitable it is in Europe, the more people might want to come here and help us with our project here. And of course, this is part of the reason why Netanyahu has explicitly stated that he's, he's supporting Hamas for many years, because having a group that you can point to as terrorists, that allows him to say, I have no partner for peace, that allows him to continue the occupation and continue the blockade. Right. And so there's

this weird dynamic where it does seem like oftentimes, these people kind of benefit from each other, and who suffers for it, for the most part of the Palestinian people, and, and, to a lesser extent, the people of Israel to because they get caught in the middle of, you know, acts of terrorism and military campaigns and all this stuff, speaking about 911. And you reminded me, I just saw this, clip this program with a friend of yours. That was up not too long ago. And we were talking about

these wars and what was happening, and I'm gonna get your reaction to this as a bank, really, for these wars. Because Americans don't know anything we know very, after 911 I think about it. Now, the propaganda to make me afraid of Muslims. I can't even imagine being a Muslim growing up after 911 America because I know how I felt about them. And I was as young as 11 years old, but that beating every day in our head that every Muslim was a terrorist was the idea that you got, I make jokes

about it, but like, you don't say like I had to shave my face to go to airports. My mom would make me shave my face, like at school, like I was so young. I had a mustache and like the fourth grade, and my mom made me near him, because she was like, you gotta like because it was really, really bad. Because whatever you're like a household to say the kids have no filter. So they would just say whatever they want it to me. But at a young age, I realized that I myself as a Middle Eastern was

racist. I was like, oh, it's not us. It's them. And so I will point my finger out of fear, but no, no, they did it but then I want to arm

I went to Saudi Arabia. And I don't think I've ever been to a country that was more hospitable to me. The love that I got the respect that I got, I literally sat back and I hold myself out to dry on a podcast. I was brainwashed. I was shows good. How do you bring her? Yeah, same. And so first I want to say just like, to all Muslims, were not during that time in America, I am sorry, on behalf of America, the way that you were treated, it is so unnatural when I go back and I re examine that

propaganda that brainwashing that took place in the classroom to make me scared, and I didn't know what a Muslim was, I remember going to the airport, and someone was a Hindu. And I was scared that like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna take this off the table. I thought that was a Muslim, right? There was no education or anything. And the reason for that, you know, He who controls the textbooks controls the entire country, in my view, right? It was because everything that we did responding to 911

should be assessed as whether or not there were crimes against humanity. We bombed a million Iraqi civilians, we killed a million is like what we're doing.

You just said there's lots of destruction and they never found them. But in the process, they killed a million Iraqi civilians. Right. And we It made us think it's okay to just keep bombing Muslims. That was the purpose to me of that educational propaganda and brainwashing is that we feel nothing for Muslims. If they don't, it's been really great. On, on all this stuff, I'm very impressed with Candace is very smart, and really courageous and willing to take positions that are going to that

are not going to make her life easier. But yeah, I think he's also the person like you have personal reason now. Yeah. Yeah, I think so humanity is on she was also calling, you know, she quoted under the Bible, Blessed are the peacemakers, and, you know, to see what's happening to genocide, and now she's speaking out, but then to get attacked from one side. Yeah, well, there's kind of no way to not get attacked from from one side or the other in this. But again, as I was kind of saying before,

that it's like, this is the way, you know, the way these things always work. This is true with every government and with every gang. And whatever it is that there are the who suffers, or the innocent people. And then you have very obviously, look, there is real corruption in Gaza to there's corruption with Hamas getting this money from through Qatar and not using it for for, you know what I mean, like the people and instead, some of them are a bunch of them go got to Qatar, and they're

living rich, they are down and stuff like that. That's very corrupt, as well. There's corruption. There's all types of corruption in the Israeli government. I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu is largely motivated by the fact that he might end up in prison if this war doesn't continue. I mean, there were protests about hundreds of 1000s in the streets and Israel right before this. So you see this dynamic where it like kind of gave him a lifeline, you know, which is like, so sickening, because

now like, for your own political purposes, you must, you know, engage in this mass slaughter campaign. But the bottom line is that things, one of the things that's kind of been exposed during this latest war in Gaza, is the new landscape that we live in now. And how this is not the same scenario, it was in the 80s, or 90s, or something like that, that there's all these independent shows. And the amount of graphic footage out of this conflict is unlike anything I've ever seen. I

mean, even in the in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, we got some footage out of it, but it would mostly be like, like aerial footage and seeing like a strike come in, and you're kind of removed from the, but I mean, the amount of like,

I mean, babies dying under rubble, people are seeing this every day. And I at least maybe there's some some hope that this just won't be able to continue. Obviously, it's been able to continue up to this point. But let me ask you this. Just a few more quick couple more questions. Let me ask you this. Just couple more few more quick, more questions I wanted to ask you I was supposed to have I did a short program. The first one I did with Max Blumenthal. He's a award winning, independent

journalist. She's written for the New York Times, Los Angeles Times and now he's with the grey zone. And I had him listen to Chris Cuomo. You've heard of Chris Cuomo. And Chris Cuomo was talking about this film that they had seen not to film this presentation by the Israeli government, to certain reporters. And then he came out and he did a report talking about charred bodies and sent me other really gruesome, disgusting things. And I am not a card carrying member of Hamas. I like I like

hummus. I love love hummus. I love hummus. But look, I'm not somebody who was really familiar with many of the groups and that and, but obviously you see the injustice and you speaking at a tide of truth, that's what you're trying to do. My point here is,

so Max Blumenthal when we showed this, he called out Chris como because Max had done a lot of reporting on this and talking about the Hannibal directive. He was talking about many of the Israeli newspapers who are also reporting on things that were contradicting the official story. And it was like, hold on. I mean, it's like okay, so then, Chris contacted me. He reached out to us and he wanted to come on the program

and have a discussion with him.

Max, we were going back and forth. And then I finally had we set up a date he ended up postponing it and then finally he said that he can't go on any of the podcasts because some deal he's having. But me and Max came back on. Anyways, my point here is that you have a lot of this atrocity propaganda if it's proven no doubt about it. I'd be the first person to condemn any great but don't say specific words you know, the cutting, you know, like horrific evil disgusting things that get people

to emotional crazy level like we have to go attack these animals who are doing this. But then you had Chris Cuomo, who actually had used some use of bus him on the program, and use of Boston comes on let's talk about October 27. Is

stairs is that it's terrible. Antony Blinken went on in front of Congress and he testified about an incident. A family of four the young boy and girl six and eight years old and their parents around the breakfast table. The father is gouged out in front of his kids. The mother's breast cut off the girl's foot amputated the boys fingers cut off before they were executed. And then their executioner sat down and had a meal. That is a direct testimony from Zeca and had Julian it day killed her

husband. First they took his eyes out. I saw the body by myself. They cut the breast of the woman that cut the leg of girl to regroup from Israel that they have actually been exposed that all of the stuff that they said has been lies. They have collected more than $50 million of donation came and he has safty latinity Nakane believes us our volunteers when they came into the homes and they saw the children beheaded if they were not this raping women, they would have continued to because of

these unverified lines. And this has been reported by the Israeli media or it's Shannon 30 In time of Israel Schelotto Satyajit manana don't quote me, Tom. And I'm assuming

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cultural visa must be sure.

As a viewer who is man she was a pursuit loca pregnant women can open Gonzalo kala

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You've seen burn burn. But in the same time in Israel, people talk about the Hannibal direct where the Israelis went in and indiscriminately. They shot Hellfire missiles from a pack. They shot shells from tanks. There is an Israeli survivor and MCs mean poor actually came on the podcast. And she talked about being in a house with 14 other hostages and 40 tariffs. And since everybody was alive, and then the Israelis started to shooting all the 14 the tariffs and 12 out of the 14 hostages were

killed. That's an 85% kill rate. And he's given also much of these facts. And he's showing that these relief organizations who are reporting all of these things, they were actually like the 40 beheaded babies and all this stuff. These were debunked. So they were coming out these relief organizations making these claims which later the Israeli reporters and people on the ground they said these are not true. They're lies. But they made $50 million dollars in the process. Yeah. So

people are still Piers Morgan and others Crisco. They're still repeating the line. What are your comments on that? Well, yeah, I mean, I think I looked into this. Yes, yes. I've read a bit of Max's reporting on this. And I do think that it does. Look, it's very clear that there were exaggerations. There were claims that just were not actually true. It also seems kind of unnecessary, because there were horrific things that happened on October 7. And so it doesn't seem like why you have to do

anything. Anything that's it's something that, you know, innocent people we condemn, yes, of course. Now, of course, there were also attacks on military

outlets, and that's a little bit of a different situation. That's not the same thing as attacking innocent civilians, you know, attacking a military that is keeping your people under blockade and, you know, continually bombing. That's that's a different. That's at least a different moral question. But there was no, there is no question that Hamas did kill innocent civilians on October 7, there is a question of what percentage of them were killed in crossfire with the IDF? That's

there's a question of what how much the IDF did there. And there should be a much more thorough investigation. point there. Yeah. Investigate everybody. Yes. Well, you want to know you want to get to the truth.

But I think it's the independent outside organization to investigate. But look that from my perspective, when I see the almost everybody who takes the pro Israel position on this is implicitly saying

They don't value Palestinian life as much as they value Israeli life. That is the overwhelming claim. It's the only reason for anyone, even if you buy this human shields argument that they're using, which is, you know, not exactly clear that it's founded in objectivity. But even if you buy that, if you go like, well, we just got a bomb. And we know we're gonna end up killing all these kids, but we got to do it to try to get to this one Hamas guy, you would never accept that if the

price was Israeli life, you know what I'm saying? Like you would never accept, like, Oh, I'm gonna kill a whole bunch of innocent Israelis, because we're getting here.

No one would accept, the only way to get there is if you fundamentally don't value Palestinian life as much as you value, Israeli life or American life. And if you just look at if you just say, No, I think all life is all human life. If you just take that position, then it's very easy to just get to the conclusion that like, yes, it doesn't matter which side does it killing innocent civilians is inexcusable? You cannot do that. That's what makes us that's what makes us not savages. That's what

makes us civilized people is that we don't believe that that's okay. And if you just accept that, then first of all, you'll accept that there's no way you can support this war in Gaza. And after that, the additional point to that, and this is kind of the back to what I was saying at the beginning of the Ron Paul point, is that it is not, it is just not true that the goal of this war is to eliminate Hamas, as they say, this war, if you understand anything about history, this war

guarantees Hamas or a Hamas like organization, or some This guarantees more terrorism, short of killing the whole 2 million plus population in Gaza, or ethnically cleansing all of them out of there, there is no way you can do this to a group of people, and they will not want to violently respond to you, you're guaranteeing it for the future. And of course, again, this is human nature. Anybody did this to nobody, there's no group of humans in the history of human existence, who would

accept these conditions and not try to fight back? What do you say as we conclude now for people who are caught in the

in this and they're seeing, you know, the,

the 4k images of the innocent children and whatnot, but they're torn between you know, much of the slogans, the propaganda, the programming,

you went through what you went through a lot of reading a lot of studying, how can a person take a shortcut? What do you advise for somebody to get to the bottom really what's going on? Well, I wouldn't say that. I would doubt Cooper's Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem is that it's very easy to access. It's audio, which a lot of people prefer, like listening to reading. I personally wish he had written it. And

that's, that's it. That's 20 hours. Yes. Yeah, it's 20 plus hours, it's like, I don't have that much time. Anything else you don't have? Well, look, I did on my podcast, I did a brief history of Israel, which is a two part series called part of the problem.

It's yeah, you find on YouTube on iTunes, gas. digital.com is where you can go through all the episodes. And that's just it's a short, it's a briefer version of it. Obviously, if you're giving an 80 year history and a couple hours, it's just, you know, hitting like kind of key points. But I would just say that, which I think the whole spirit of me and you sitting down is, is that you, you should feel free to reject the false paradigm, you should feel free to reject this thing where like,

if I'm either I, if I if I want to be against this more than I have to hate Jewish people, or if I want to be

ugly against this war, then I have to support

Islamic terrorism or something like that. And if you want, you know what I mean? Like all of that is nonsense. You don't have to trap yourself in that binary there. There are people who fall into that binary, but they really are the minority, and people who are saying what you're saying and what I'm saying far outnumber those people that people who are sitting here saying no, I don't have anything against Jewish people. I have something against what the government of Israel is doing to the

Palestinian people. And the people who are saying, No, I do not support Hamas. I don't support anyone who kills innocent people. But I am saying that I do support the innocent people who are living in Palestine and that their life is every bit as precious, you know, like, I'm a dad, I got little kids. I look man, when you see the pictures that you know, they were posting them in New York of the hostages, and they have pictures of babies up there. And I mean, like, I don't know exactly

everything that happened. There hasn't been a full investigation. But you see that the idea that a baby died, it's just like the worst thing in the world. I see my kids in that kid's face. But then I also see my kid

As in the faces of all these Palestinians, and I tried to just try to put yourself in the situation of imagining what that would be like, it's like the worst thing in the world you could think of that someone would ever do that to one of your kids. That's what we should all every human being should be on the side of being against that, and that you would exhaust every every conceivable option before you would ever accept that being done to anybody's kids. What's our slogan? Where do we get

this from a freedom and liberty for all? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's what I like. That's what I'm all about. They want the freedom also to control their own water, their own air, their own,

able to build and to have

not someone coming in soldiers coming into their home sleeping in their beds. Yeah. Things that we would not stand for. I often say we get pissed off someone parks in our driveway. Yeah, yeah. No, that's what takes their fence and maybe, you know, takes two inches from the survey. Right and goes over the property line. Yeah, no, that's right. People ready to come out guns blazing. Yeah, no, that's right. That's right. And look, no, no, no group of people would accept what the Palestinians

have been given since 1967. And there's, you know, we should do more to encourage any peaceful solution to that. Absolutely. And I just want to note from Islamic perspective, anytime doesn't matter in war, anything is very clear. Non combatants are to be non touched. Yes. Familiar with Yes. Yes, that it's very clear, very powerful. verse in the Quran chapter five verse 32, saying killing one innocent human being non combat and innocent human being is as you killed the world saving one

innocent life as you save the world. Yeah, well, that's beautiful. Yes.

Thank you again, thank you. I really appreciate you coming to me I appreciate I'm really glad we had this conversation I want you to look at you have your Muslim friend here if you have anything any questions anything on this and you know, where they bring up like the RFK and what's her name and they tried to bring Islam please if there's anything I can do there, you know, as a friend, look me up. Thank you very much my brother. Thank you brother. We needed the Dean sander to be here we are

blessed and humbled Allah we are here hard at work let's go and take a look what's going on. Where are we at now? We are almost done with a boudoir we are trying to finish the window area for the outside and Hamdulillah we did great achievements so far still much going on. You know we need a lot of work I really can't wait to have it finished working hard to get the educational Dawa center open so we can educate humanity on the most misunderstood way of life out there yet the fastest growing

Islam so do your part and contribute donate right now.

I cannot leave without giving you a gift. If you're not yet Muslim and you're tuning in to see what these Muslims are talking about. And you'd like a free copy of the Quran. Go and visit the deen show.com We'll take care of the postage and everything and get it delivered to you. And if you still have some questions about Islam, call us at 1-800-662-4752 We'll see you next time until then Peace be with you as salaam alaikum