Betraying Islam Humza Yousaf, Takfir & the LGBTQ+ Agenda

Hamza Tzortzis


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The first minister of the UK has claimed he is practicing Muslim, and the upcoming political climate is a need for fair treatment for transgender individuals. The discussion on the depiction of Islam in modernity and the lack of acceptance of gay conversion is underway, with some suggesting that men and women will be accessing spaces where they are going out. The speakers emphasize the importance of protecting privacy and protecting one's own finances, while avoiding negative language when discussing policies and protecting privacy. They briefly touch on the topic of hate and the importance of protecting privacy.

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Sorry can brothers and sisters I pray your vote inshallah Tyler This is a special video discussion on idea by the Hamza sources channel. I know this is maybe a new face a new name my name is Hussein and the deputy editor of the British Muslim news website five pillars, also the hospital Blood Brothers podcast. I've been invited by our dear brother, my friend, my companion, my counselor, Hamza resources to have this discussion today about a topic which has been doing the rounds in fact, from in the West in the UK, especially and even in North America. And that is the appointment of the First Minister of Scotland Hamza Yusuf, not Hamza Yusuf Sheikh Hamza Yusuf zaytuna College, as one

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Pakistani media outlet got it wrong. This is Hamza Yusuf, the British Pakistani politician that's been newly appointed as the first minister and leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party. With me today I have the man who owns his channel, Hamza, Slotnick. Why? Because there are loads of luckily, how did you feel that I'm hosting? It's new, it's much better because I was gonna start off but you have an amazing skill of getting the best out of me, or at least getting an authentic natural

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version of me. Let's go straight in. Yes, please. Right. And I want to set the background for your viewers and listeners because I know you have many that from outside the UPS. So Scotland, the Scottish First Minister, former Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon stepped down. So there was a leadership race for the SNP. In that leadership race, there was an individual Hamza Yusuf, a longtime member of the SNP, someone who is very close to Nicola Sturgeon. And basically, the race ended up being between himself and a lady called Kate Forbes. Yes, this leadership race was very uniquely positioned because a lot of it's centered around religion. Yes, Islam and Christianity,

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because Kate Forbes herself was a devout Christian. And Hamza Yusuf has repeatedly claimed that he is a practicing Muslim. So in media interviews, a lot of questions were asked to both candidates about their positions on same sex marriage bill, an old law that has gone through, but what the people wanted to know what their respective positions would have been. Yes, right.

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As well as issues to do with homosexual relationships.

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gay conversion therapy, which we'll get into later on. So obviously, what happened was that Hamza Yusuf won a tight leadership race, he won, and no pun intended.

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And a lot of it hung on, a lot of it hung on these issues. It was it was it was a did make it we can laugh, thumbs up the tube, laughing.

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But we frame it, and we can make we can make a light matter. But we remember that this is something that Allah destroyed a nation of Yeah. 100% 100%. And, and we laugh, and we said this off camera, though, it's actually laughable that we're having this conversation. Yes. But the truth is, there is serious repercussions and implications for the Muslims and especially children in regards to in relation to this conversation that we're having today. So humble use of one of the leadership race, he came, made multiple media appearances. The most prominent one that's doing the rounds was on Sky News. Yes. Where he was asked, Do you would do you believe in same sex marriage? And he said, Yes, I

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do. And I see no difference between two homosexuals getting married, or my own marriage as a heterosexual man.

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Then he was asked by the presenter on Sky News. Do you believe gay sex is a sin?

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He said, No, yes. And then he said that his cabinet or his his his party, or if he gets into power, will not adopt the position that gay sex is a sin, and He cannot change what's in Scripture. So that is the two and a half, three minute clip that's doing the rounds has gone viral.

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And there's been a huge outreach on the Muslim community. There's been more there's been other statements where he said, that I think was with regards to turn transgender people that they should be celebrated. From the point of view, he also I think, talked about that this should be, we should advocate for them. That's the kind of narrative that he was pushing. And this is obviously problematic from an Islamic perspective for sure. I mean, if you want the exact quote, If you want the exact quote, the exact quote was the following.

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Hamza Yusuf told pink news, which is the prominent gay magazine that he will not just defend the rights of LGBTQ people are transgender both absolutely advanced them in a progressively socially justice called Yes. Which means this is at the forefront of his campaign and his political agenda. Now, in light of that, we have to also be fair that they have

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have been some offerings of frameworks by some mache. Some that are close and dear to us. Well, one specifically that's close to dear to us, Asha Haytham have evolved. I mean, someone who, someone who we love someone that we respect someone who we take aspects of our deen from in terms of learning from him. But we should also make it clear that you can love someone. You can learn from someone you can take from someone, and there doesn't seem to be entire Unison in all views, of course. And as human beings, we're fallible and sometimes we can get things wrong, especially on each jihadi political issue. Yes. So I've firstly only relates to the Messiah of the reality understanding the

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benefits and the harms for the Muslim community for Islam by looking at the reality on the ground, because that is not a texture issue. It's an ugly issue. You just have to rationalize it. It's like a form of Islamic utilitarianism. Yeah, you look at the utility you look at, you know, is an increase in the well being or the benefit for the Muslims and Islam. And is there a decrease in the ill being? Yeah, before I hand over to you and as to why, you know, why you felt today's conversations? Well, actually, before you asked that. Some people say, bro, that why this is cringe Why are you discussing the First Minister of Scotland? What significance has this go into? Yes. So

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let's look at some of the policies that Hamza Yusuf has been on record and consistently supported and advocated for and as we speak right now in the month of Ramadan is implementing as we speak, right.

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Hamza Yusuf has voiced consistent support for the right for women to abort, up to birth up to birth.

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So this murder, basically, an eight month fetus, child, baby, nine month up to birth. Yeah, all the links and all the references will be in the description video.

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Support for the gender reform bill. This is a law that will officially recognize transgenders, allowing them access mainly the main issue is allowing them access to spaces for the gentle for the gender, they identify us. Now, you see that JK Rowling and feminist and even lesbians have been outraged. They're like, because you're gonna have men identifying as women, who are physiologically and biologically men with all the all the male organs intact, going to be accessing spaces, where our mothers and our sisters and our wives are going to be an outdoor lover, and women of this society. He's saying he wants to recognize that reform. He wants to implement that reform and it was

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at the forefront of his campaign. Link will be again, in the video, as well as what the bill is. In the description. You'll also find what the law actually is it will include that as well.

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Hamza Yusuf has said more than 25 times so he said it I have said more than 25 times that I believe in sex, same sex marriage, and doesn't see any difference between his own Islamic Nikka and that have two gays or lesbians marrying one another.

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He has said that he will ban gay conversion therapy. Now this is huge. This is huge. So gay couples are conversion therapy is when someone identifies as a homosexual, gay or lesbian. And that they would they would undergo some level of therapy for them to reconsider, realign, or convert or revert back to heterosexuality. Yes. So what that means brothers and sisters and friends is that if there is a Muslim

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who identifies for whatever reasons, they become become attracted to the same gender. They cannot undergo any faith based therapy to bring them back into what we would regard as the only possible way that you can have relationships in Islam. Yes,

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they will ban that it will be a criminal offence to give therapy to a Muslim or a Christian anyone to bring them back into heterosexuality. He said he will ban this.

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He has recommitted and reaffirmed his commitment to the teaching of LGBTQ education, and it should be noted that England followed Scotland when it came to RSC to aid Scotland was at the forefront of piracy. And he renewed his intention to teaching pro LGBTQ education in primary schools to children as young as five.

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And just recently, Hamza Yusuf appointed to lesbians, one queer one lesbian in two key senior ministerial roles, the Minister of Education and the Minister of equalities.

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Jenny Griff and I will get the other name just bear with me. I'll get the other name it's important that we have names and we keep these conversations fact basis possible.

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medic. So Mr. Article service Minister of equalities, and Jennifer good riff is the Minister of Education. So I'm the quickly those two departments

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like, tell the people that those are the two main departments, I would have dealings with Muslims. So this is why it's actually extremely significant. People think this is this is an unwieldy discussion, but it's not because you have to look at the trajectory of the ideological trends that are continuing in modern discourse, right? So you have this kind of neoliberal postmodern discourse, which is advocating really the destruction of more unnecessary hierarchies, the destruction of objectivity, right, the destruction of what it means to be a male and a female, a man and a woman, the destruction of essentially religious morals, Islamic morals, the destruction of the family,

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because generally speaking, postmodern discuss what it tries to do, it says, Look, you know, everything has assumptions, and they have this kind of

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excessive skepticism about everything, right? And that's why this whole we don't want to get into the postmodern modernism as a philosophy because it's actually very even difficult to define. But generally speaking, the point is these ideas

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have been pushed and the continuingly being pushed not only on a political level, but all the way down to the grassroots level educational level in our schools. Yeah. So when people say this is actually symbolically good for us that Hamza Yusuf is now you know, Muslim and he is the First Minister of Scotland, which essentially is like a state leader it is, then this should be celebrated. Wallahi Allah is my witness, that statement itself can only come from someone who is absolutely ignorant about the realities on the ground, Wallah, he, I say that again, give me like, give me the ceilings have been broken? No, because, you know, like, there was a famous scholar,

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preacher that we know of, and we respect and in, you know, for a lot of good work that he has done. He was like, Look, you know, the colonizers will be like rolling in their graves or whatever the case may be. And I was thinking to myself, that's such a naive statement, because the colonizers have actually 100 They've said, Okay, keep your color, we can't change your color, but you know, what we'll do, we'll colonize your mind. And obviously now we have an ideological colonization, which is like liberalism and secularism really. And you know, in Liberal secular discourse, bro, minorities are not practically and functionally tolerated in political discourse, unless they are

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subjugated minority. And they have been liberalized and secularized entirely assimilated. Yeah. And you know what symbol you know what this cries out, bro. This is saying to the Muslim community, the only way that you're going to have acceptance politically, the only way that you can have political authority in our country, the United Kingdom or Scotland, Wales, England, is if you reject core aspects of Islam. What kind of insane, insane reasoning is that? How can you celebrate such a thing? You're basically celebrating the denial of divine commands, you're celebrating, basically the denial of the commands of Allah subhana wa Tada. You're celebrating key aspects of the deen bro a key

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aspect of Tao heed the Oneness of Allah affirming that unicity of Allah subhanho wa Taala is obedience 100% What does it mean to be a Muslim? To be a Muslim? Like, jihad is struggle a Mujahid is someone who struggles that's their way of being a Muslim is someone who is in a state of submission to Allah. Yeah, they're promoting the antithesis of what it means to be a Muslim.

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Now, what's very interesting is, and we could discuss more about this later, but so this has happened and then there's been a reaction of the Muslim community there is something that we didn't see. Another point that we do need to address is that there's been I'm we're gonna get to exactly where we need to because we are trying to follow a chronological order of events last week, right. And one of the arguments have been presented that do not judge Muslim politicians or scholars. Yes. Now my issue with this is that whilst there may be some truth to this, it's it makes it difficult when he Hamza Yusuf and others, but to my Hamza Yusuf er has come and said, I am a practicing

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Muslim. Yes, I will be fasting in Ramadan. Yes, soon as he becomes the First Minister. He moves into Butte house he posts a picture of him praying. Hunter tell me he made it a religious debate. Thank you. He made it religious look identity. There are many Muslim politicians. I don't bat an eyelid. I don't care get on with your life even and do my thing. But you made it a religious thing. So what you're saying to the world to the world, you're saying you can fast you can fast you can pray you could worship Allah in terms of these

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aspects of worship and you can believe that homosexual marriage homosexual intercourse is halal abortion up to a notion of murder in our tradition, we believe in divine commands.

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Abortion at nine months is murder that you cannot give down a car to someone to bring them back into this is, this is all, it doesn't take these policies, it doesn't take a genius to say this is all Kufri discourse is all covered. It is. It is a rejection of Allah subhanho wa Taala of the divine command. And what's very important is this. He in this way, don't get about people who think they're trying to rationalize this and say, oh, you know, be mature and righteous about this. Don't excuse your intellectual spiritual cowardice.

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Don't vais your intellectual spiritual cowardice and call it righteousness and being mature with all due respect. That's not maturity, that is naivety. And that's being a coward, you should, you should just frankly, close your mouth. Because he's going to be used as the poster boy, as a poster boy, for the LGBTQ plus advocacy for all of these things are entering our homes and our schools bro. They're trying to destroy Muslim families destroy what it means to be Muslim, destroy the necessary more hierarchies in our, in our tradition in our societies, is going to actually facilitate the removal of children away from their Muslim parents is going to confuse listen, I'm going to be

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honest, we don't want to become like Canada in America. Okay, it's not that bad. But there are trends and I've been there many times, you will see a huge IV with the rainbow flag.

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We're not going to have this We're Not over my dead body. We have our dead body and by the way, and let me tell you why. And we're not saying this from the point of view that we're going to be aggressive. No, I've made this very clear. As Allah says in surah, Montana, verse eight, that if you don't fight us for your religion, you know fighting, you don't express from your home, then we have to be just unkind to you. And the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was a mercy to mankind. So whether you're homosexual or polytheist or Christian, we have we have see there's a difference in the sum of love of someone and love for someone 100 Yeah, I can I can not like your way of being

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because you reject the divine but I can love for you I want good for you. I want Islam for you want guidance for you? I want to well being free. So I don't want people to think now because we will do this. Oh, because you disagree with us. That means you want us to be you know harmed? No, no, that's a ridiculous image or discourse. So he's going to be as the poster boy, I would not I will. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, bro. Anyone who's come out and actually has celebrated Hamza Yusuf in this way. With all due respect, I believe you need to do Toba. What about you have to ask Allah for forgiveness? Because all I'll ask Allah for forgiveness for not researching the topic

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properly because you don't know what's happening on the ground. I'm not trying to be arrogant here. But we have for example, says Institute Lighthouse mentoring, mentoring ope of 1000s of people, hundreds of people. I think in the past few years, over 1150 people. These people come to us we know what's happening on the ground with regards to LGBTQ plus advocacy, gender fluidity, gender dysphoria, doubts with regards to the postmodern modern discourse doubt with regards to them being engulfed by neoliberal ideas and secularism were dealing with this on the ground and I'm telling you, these ideologies alien Kufri ideologies are tsunamis are trying to engulf the hearts and minds

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of Muslims and notice that they can naive This is a very nation state naive perspective right? Not just that this is all around the world I was in Pakistan bro. At the elite universities this discourse is being pushed is trying to destroy the future leaders of Muslim nations it's happening everywhere. And now you celebrate what a myopic vision honestly, well I am passionate about this broken eyes because these days if but I have some critical thinking have some empirical assessment you just sit there in your ivory towers you know I'm gonna share who I am this and speaking at people not not actually come and let me tell you why this is ridiculous. This is not even a Quran

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and Sunnah debate actually have you listened to me if you use that because the line the arrow of the discourse is actually something with regards to masala there are three types of masala, the type of masala that they're talking about is the muscle have Masana which is the understanding the benefits of the Muslims, or the strategic benefits for the Muslims and Islam, understanding the reality and using ugly your alcohol. So with all due respect, you may think you're a scholar or a learned person. But if you don't know the reality on the ground, or you don't have the critical thinking abilities or the political nuances or the understanding of ideological trends of what's happening

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with ordered due respect, you should just keep quiet because whatever you're going to say is going to be on your neck on the day of judgment and I fear

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for you, and obviously, you know, I don't want you to be, you know, hot and spiritually harmed I want I want the best for you. And I think you're better than me anyway. But I'm telling you, I'm saying this because I really they need to do Tober. And you know, how you mentioned, sapiens has been dealing with, you know, loads of people who have, you know, that you've mentored and that conveyed that this is an issue the same five pillars as covered dozens, if not hundreds of stories about how it's affecting Muslim students at schools just just in the life. I want you to talk about this, but let's talk about adding Addington Khadem II we're gonna come in, we're dealing with

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stories week in week out where the LGBTQ agenda has been forced upon us from our children in schools that were advocates are coming in from organizations like Stonewall, telling them it's okay to be gay or Muslim. It's okay to have gay sex, it's okay to identify as X, Y and Zed. And this will only increase under the type of issue that you Hamza Yusuf is introducing via his policies now. But what isn't that bro? Because this is part of an ideological agenda that they're pushing sir. And they're pushing a particular worldview. And a practical manifestation of that is what you've just mentioned. And we could go into details about some of the case studies. Yeah. But it's wide enough from the

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point of view that the pushing an idea of what is truth? What is morality, the pushing idea? And what is objectivity? Is there such a thing as objectivity, the pushing these kind of ideals, and that's going to have far more disastrous implications for for Muslims, because you're going to have Muslims thinking that Islam is not true, most a gateway to apostasy. Of course, we know this, because we have Lighthouse mentioned, we do the prostate on a regular basis bit Hunter, we got very good success stories, but then making our job very hard now, because I don't know they have a post colonial complex or, you know, they want this, they want a brown person in power. This is all naive.

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This is shallow, well lays an inverted complex. It's an inverted complex, there is nothing more.

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Actually, let me ask you a question, bro. God, is there any evidence of this strategy of some Muslim thinkers and scholars to have actually even worked? Boys barely work in the Muslim majority world? Sadly, we're in the West. No. So I think Einstein said something like, Insanity is doing the same thing. different results? Yeah. We've had 17 Muslim MPs in 2019. During the relationship, a sex education bill, not a single one voted against it. The vast majority voted for it. And I think five out of 17 abstained.

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17 Muslim MPs, not one voted against it feeling alone. The final was the muffler. I don't know, bro. So in the backdrop of all of this came along our brother Muhammad hijab, no. Yes, my blessing, I mean, and he made a video

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excommunicating the country on Hamza Yusuf, quite unequivocally yes, in a very colorful way that he does, again, no pun intended in reference to colors. And then what happened was that the conversation then became

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not about Hamza Yusuf, on the online discourse, even when we had our brothers from across the pond in North America that we're now weighing in on the debate, I had private messages from, like, I'm not gonna mention names because it's an Amana saying, disassociate yourself from hijab?

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Like with all due respect, you've had public taggings as above? Yeah, but I don't get involved in those squabbles. Because it's this drama. Yeah. And I'm very kind of was it obscure, I don't really mention names, I just give principles like my recent tweet. The thing is, if I use the same narrative or logic that they're trying to get me to disassociate with with, with hijab, then I should basically have found all these people under the bus for aligning themselves with, you know, the LGBTQ plus advocates. With all due respect, the door swings both ways, but I don't want to get into that debate. He jumps he jumps to clear what are your thoughts on you, as someone who's worked

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with him? You see, you're on the same obviously, this is not a sapience. It's not it's not but but and, and also, but you're receiving phone calls and tags on Twitter because of the association. Okay, so I'm going to mention this very clearly. Number one, I want to stay in my lane. I do not know the fact of tech five. So I'm not going to get involved in this. I'm not going to say this is right or this is wrong. But I do know one thing, there is scholarly backing for hijabs video. I'm not saying I agree his with his tone and the way he did it. But I'm saying I'm not going to condemn my brother, because he has scaly backing by scholars that we love and respect and authority and

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Maliki Hanafy.

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And there may be many others. So I'm gonna leave it for hijab if he wants to mention names, but the point is, I know for sure the scholarly backing. So with all due respect, you can't throw the scholar card now who's your scholars and have backing? This is this ridiculous decline to say something's important and related

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Dr. Shadi al Masri,

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from the funders from the States, he said, because there was a whole conversation about jobs, scholarly and 50 credentials and due to potential

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we'll get to that but just on this issue of laity and people of knowledge and a call the issue interfaith I just want to cite what some scholars have said. Yes. regards to this specifically. Dr. Shadi al Masri said, the court the judge is only needed to apply the punishment not to determine the ruling. So if I see a Muslim bowing to an idol or saying Jesus is God, notice Alma mercy He said, If I see a Muslim bowing to an idol knows who Jesus is God are saying alcohol is halal. We can't make any conclusions. ludicrous.

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Dr. Abdullah Ali said Islam means submission to God's will. The easiest way to undermine your faith is to insist that defying God's commands is reason for celebration. We take no pride in sin. Any Muslim who celebrates sodomy tribot ism, and any other sin is acceptable behavior is an apostate. Good. So I like the chef, Dr. Muhammad Ali, Abdullah Ali's approach because he doesn't mention names. Yes. So he gives a principle. So if you do x, then the implications are why and if the hat fits, wear it. So that would be my approach based on the kind of maybe what I would consider to be more in line with wisdom, however, coming back to hijab, can we just finish the riff? Oh, sorry. I

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didn't know there was more. There's more so Dr. abdali, he elaborate he goes, other than that the common Muslim is well within his or her right to consider someone to have gone beyond the pale of Islam. When that Muslim makes the indisputably haram Hala and vice versa, because the knowledge of such things are known by all Muslims to be what defines us.

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Dr. Yasser Nadeem allegedly said if a Muslim believes that homosexuality is Islamically, okay, he leaves Islam, whether he's an Imam, or a politician, calling an act haram, an act Halal is disbelief. Yes.

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Yeah, so I'm not going to I'm fully supporting of hijab with regards to his that, you know, if he decides to go on his channel and express a view that he feels very strongly that has scholarly backing, then I'm not going to dismiss that at all.

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And he's also aware of the political ramifications as well. And he knows that just because on the tech field, it doesn't mean now that it should be given people justification to harm anyone physically or murderous on Absolutely. And he is going to come out with that in today over the next few days actually making that very clear, because will lie I'm so shocked someone has even called he Jabba takfiri Do you know what that means as a slanderous claim that can be used by authorities to destroy his life, his validate people do that have some have some thinking? He's not attack theory in any shape, or form. In actual fact, I'll give you a personal story. Someone a few years ago, did

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something public and I was like, This is my read mine. And I don't go public. And I was going to either go public or say something. He just calmed me down. He just gave me the hikma. He just said, look, look at the bigger picture and stuff like that. Right? So and when you look at his channel, he is not takfiri attune to any shape or form. In actual fact, he debate these people. He has debated against the ISIS narrative. He's debated against the kind of what you will call that and I like using this term, but what people call us the monthlies and so on and so forth. So this is a slanderous claim the thing and to say that he has no understanding of fic I know he maybe didn't

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want me to do this, or maybe he he's not entirely happy that the whole list of his scholars is going to come out. But these are his scholars, bro. Firstly, he has 10 teachers from Uppsala University.

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Also, he started with Chef a Martian Chitti from Mauritania for four years. Chef Ahmed Ghazali, in humbly FIP for two years, Professor Abdul Hakim Abdullah Trudy,

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I think that was Islamic law humbly. Professor Iman she had and also chef Ahmed McKelvey and Dr. Akram nadwi. And also Sheikh Abdullah JD. And also, I think he's been he's been huge. And he said that he said this publicly recently, he's also been stunning, which I hate them. Right. So with all due respect, you know, we can't say, hijab is not learned. That's a really silly thing to say. He's grounded, and he's continuing continuing his his intellectual spiritual development, and the trajectory is very, very positive. So I, you know, I want you to

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note that I think he requires defending, but I wanted to mention that clearly. I don't know the flip of that fear. So I'm going to be silent on the topic. However, I know in general, if someone asserts many times that homosexuality is not a sin, that same sex marriage is not a sin.

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In the homosexual intercourse is not a sin. And someone who basically says that, you know, you can abort a nine month Euro child for any reason, which is murder and they say that's not a sin. And then all the things that you mentioned, if someone does that, then that is apostasy. Because there's believe I know, I'm not saying an ame. I'm saying if someone now what does that allow that allows the caveat of A will have a basically to, you know, understand maybe in some cases, there is a context that they may be excused, but I'm not going to understand this. And with all due respect, I cannot see or imagined in any,

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any of the kind of, you know, metaphysical realms, whatever you want to call it, Fathom any justification for that for those utterances as in any way by standing the possibility that they could be a case. So that's why I'm not mentioning particular names, but if someone in you know as a principle mentions all of these things, then this is covered in actual fact, not to understand is covered could be very dangerous on you, like what do you know about it's not right? What's your what's your reason that he could, because some activists from certain persuasions have said that he could may well be lying, it can be doing Boqueria. For greater to achieve a greater objective and a

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greater goal, whether it is naivety, this is this is my this is actually in fact, it's probably more embarrassing. I tell you what's more embarrassing, because you're in the system. Right? And this is a form of gradualism anyway, right?

00:31:30--> 00:32:07

You remember when when a lot of the Muslim thinkers or scholars, they, some of them, they talk about gradualism, and they say, you know, we gradually get influenced in a secular liberal society. It's a very naive discourse, because the door swings both ways. There's also gradualism, the other way. There's gradualism, where they're trying to now make you more secular, more liberal. And what has actually happened, by the way, have we become more secular, more liberal? In many cases? Yes. Especially maybe not the community. But from the structural point of view, from a policy point of view, I'm a representation from a representation point of view. So please, this is this is extremely

00:32:07--> 00:32:21

naive. I, like people need to study critical thinking. Also, we need to make a distinction about graduates as a strategy for Islamic revival in the Muslim majority. Well, yes. And the strategy has most of minorities in the West, yes, yeah. There doesn't need to make that distinction.

00:32:22--> 00:32:41

What's your thoughts on those that have made this that on the one hand, they've said look at his policies, and not his personality, but the overwhelming defense of Hamza Yusuf by the likes of shareholders, one from Scotland from a syllabus and armor from a syllabus and these guys from Scotland

00:32:43--> 00:32:47

it's been very little to no talk about his policies, and everything about how much of a nice guy is how sincere

00:32:48--> 00:32:54

and you know, even Shaq was one without mentioning hijab, you know, refer to him as someone who's illiterate. Yeah.

00:32:55--> 00:33:07

That's not mature. That's not righteous. And I also believe that I am finding that the defense of Hamza Yusuf has been around his personality, and not his policies. But on the one hand, we're told not to judge politicians

00:33:09--> 00:33:16

as a public figure, and our public figures overlay and if you do this, we'll have to fight and we've made this agreement amongst each other because we're close like that.

00:33:17--> 00:33:55

I could always be nice to you, but if you ever see me bro, Allah, he goes away from mainstream Islam. I want you to kick my back, because that's not good. And that's the thing. So this actually Davao he's a nice guy. We're talking about huge political implications that filter down all the way to the Muslim community to destroy Islam and people's identity society by law. Yeah, of course. Because Kate for stuck by her guns. She did. She was she was brave. Yeah, case. Yeah, it is. She was like she had integrity. Kate full of stuck by her guns. She said, I would not support same sex marriage, but I will not ban gay conversion therapy. I cannot fathom a relationship outside of

00:33:55--> 00:34:37

wedlock Spanish, she said this. Yeah. So so the point here is, if they say this is more embarrassing, because they're saying that is that Islam doesn't build within you the character for you to be intellectually spiritually brave enough to talk about your values, and to convince others? What kind of erroneously this is a this is a slap in the face of the prophetic way. Because was the Prophet sallallahu it was on like this, bro. costra you're not gonna, you know, I mean, it's this, this kind of post colonial political discourse that's floated in the kind of Islamic ethics. And the Islamic discourse is really, for me a sign of postcolonial trauma, and in refer to complex and

00:34:37--> 00:34:59

frankly, they're not having intellectual spiritual bravery. You know, you need to, if you're going to be in this work, then you need to be able to speak the truth. That's what Allah wants for me. Yeah. So this whole graduate ism thing is not working, and it's there to destroy decency. And by the way, I'm saying this not only because we want to preserve Islam and the Muslim community, I want good for my citizens.

00:35:00--> 00:35:40

And then I would say the silent majority or a majority people of people in this country bro agree with us 100% They want traditional values, there is a kind of finish don't want to lose their jobs. Yet that's the point I want to lose their job. This Fitri this innate ethics that Allah has placed within us these kind of objective moral values that we we have an affinity towards that we want good for all people. And we're saying this neoliberal, postmodern discourse is actually going to destroy us is happening now. Give me some case studies. So we had very recently on Addington Academy, a school in Birmingham, where a pro LGBTQ advocate came to present his slides and presentation and

00:35:40--> 00:35:47

told children 11 to 12 year olds, that's absolutely okay to be gay and Muslim. And there is nothing that opposes it in the Quran.

00:35:48--> 00:36:25

ardington Academy, what about what about situations where you've had because you're in touch with other brothers who do this type of work situations where you have like, you know, two sisters and a family, they just decided to be non binary, binary or lesbian or whatever the case may be idea about the use of patelco and you know, mashallah, mela blessing. I mean, and the work that he's doing, I SRE Islamic, he's at the frontline of, you know, advocacy and dealing with real life cases. And he said, first and foremost, I can't deal with all the cases. So his work needs to be supported. Number two, what he's finding increasingly, is our children are coming home, and identifying as bisexual by

00:36:25--> 00:37:00

identifying as lesbian. And he's saying, Look, besides the fact that there could be other family related issues, whether it is you know, a lack of love or relationship between the father and the daughter, wherever it may be, especially stuff that's very common among South Asians. Yes, yes. Because what was meant was, was exacerbating the issue. So they're going to schools, where teachers would traditionally guide them and have an open communication with parents that are keeping a lot of this stuff secret and not informing parents, right. They're playing on the vulnerability and in the impressionability of young children, especially our daughters, even even recently, the I think was

00:37:00--> 00:37:37

the guardian of the independent. Or the telegraph, one of the newspapers, they said there was an explosion of young people having a sense of either gender dysphoria, or, you know, wanting to change the identity. And that's going to be inevitable at that age, bro, because people feel confused when they go through puberty. So this for me, I believe this is child abuse. Absolutely. Child abuse. Have you just just turned on Irvington Academy, Buffalo says you're going to find if you're going to find prison, you just search LGBTQ all our stories on the schools that way, and we can't even tell the stories, because we don't have the resources Wallahi every week, we're dealing with at least 10

00:37:37--> 00:38:16

stories a week, if not five to 10 stories a week or where LGBTQ advocates are coming to predominate. We'll have all the case studies in it. Yes. The thing is, is about it's it's about the ideological environment as well. So the neoliberalism, post modernism, not only this affecting Muslim families, in terms of you know, gender dysphoria, gender fluidity, but it's also now affecting people's understanding of Islam, articulation of someone, even if they believe in it or not. And we face we, we have an organization that is designed to take x Muslims back on a journey to reconnect themselves with Allah subhanho wa taala. And it's because of these ideologies that are being pushed by Hamza

00:38:16--> 00:38:37

Yusuf, politically and by others, that is actually in order to respect a war against the Muslim community in a warm and intellectual war against Islam. I'm thinking to myself, how can you celebrate that? How can you celebrate that? And if people don't look, because I don't want to come across? As you know, I know this. I'm on the ground. Well, like we are on the ground. Yes, we are. But I don't want to come across as arrogant and wanting to

00:38:38--> 00:39:11

say this to everybody. If you're a scholar or a thinker, an advocate for this type of narrative, the narrative that I'm not, I'm not agreeing with, you have a discussion with me? No problem. I'm willing to have a warm frank discussion with you to show you what's happening to make you understand these ideological trends and convince us that we've got it wrong. Yeah. So it's, this is not me talking at you. And this is also an opportunity for you to reach out to me I'm quite approachable, I hope and then we can have a discussion if you're in doubt about anything thus far. So

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because it counts cause you've mentioned positive note as well, of course, you know, even though they were attacking and targeting our children and children generally Subhanallah the protest has been from the Muslim kids. So what I will say to those dots and those activists and those mashallah who have either turned a blind eye dismissing downplaying ignoring, how do you feel when we've got little children, saying that the Quran opposes this? This is against my religion. I will not accept this children's sticking it on the teacher said we're not going to accept this. We've seen this in Birmingham. We've seen this in East London. Now Allah bless our children. I mean, I mean, may Allah

00:39:48--> 00:39:59

bless him, and maybe maybe we could close on this. I want to mention this and then you could do some closing remarks as well on the team. What do you think we there's other things, we have a few things. We could talk about what sort of metrics

00:40:00--> 00:40:43

connected to the children. Yeah. And I want to reach out to the children here, and to the parents, when they talk to us about these things like LGBTQ plus advocacy, and it's fine to have, you know, you know, to be transgender or homosexual sex is fine, and it's, and so on and so forth. They are coming across as if their moral worldview is universal, and is absolute. You need to understand my dear brothers and sisters that every articulation postulation worldview has his own philosophical and moral assumptions. Everyone, some assumptions can be grounded in reason. And some assumptions are coherent. Some assumptions are irrational, and they're incoherent. I want you to understand that

00:40:43--> 00:41:23

don't allow them to force this down your throats, engage in intellectual debate with mercy and with wisdom, so you're not being aggressive and say to them, you have certain assumptions that you need to prove, you need to prove them to be true in order for me to accept your position, because the assumptions that they have is this there's at least three number one, that we own our own bodies. Number two, that they adopt a normative ethical position of utilitarianism, basically, the maximum number of happiness for the maximum number of people or and they adopt a liberal worldview, which is not really an ethical theories about rights, that is your individual right? These things can be

00:41:23--> 00:41:58

challenged. Firstly, number one, we don't believe that we own our bodies who owns us. We'll say Baba who owns us. Allah subhanho wa Taala This is the Ruby of Allah Subhana Allah and Allah on the body so Allah has ever directed us what to do with our bodies. Number two, are we utilitarian? No, we're divine command theorists. What is good is what Allah tells us, mostly most utilitarian for the kids yeah, explained over utilitarianism is the greatest number of happiness for the greatest number of people. That's not and they do by using just their own rationality, and they ignore the archaea, Muslims, those who believe in Allah commands we believe Allah's commands is good for happiness

00:41:58--> 00:42:31

anyway, because they have a certain definition of happiness as well but there's more to unpack but that's the first thing we believe what Allah tells us because Allah is above is a source of goodness is our man the Most Merciful is Al Aleem, the annoying is Al Hakim, the all wise and his commands are in line with his names and attributes. So his commands are going to be loving wise, good and the best for us. The other point is should the liberal point is your individual right? No. We believe in rights we in our tradition, we have something called hook ality bad, no problem, the rights of the servants the rights of the individuals, but we say this, who has the right to give you your rights,

00:42:31--> 00:42:32

who decides?

00:42:33--> 00:43:09

So you challenge them so you see this. So it's something different, we say it's not your mind that does it. But it's Allah that decides Yes, we can also use our aka our rational faculties to find out what actually those commands are, and all the other nuances for sure, we don't throw the intellect, you know, out of the window, but essentially is Allah decides not the human. So as you can see, Islam fundamentally disagrees from a Tao Hadith perspective and a Quranic perspective, the false assumptions of this narrative. So what you need to say to them is this, I don't agree with your assumptions. So they may say this, okay, well, don't force this on us. But we're not forcing on

00:43:09--> 00:43:45

you're not, you're forcing on us. And if you agree, have assumptions, don't force it down our throats. And then what we should say to them is prove your assumptions, and they may say to us, will prove your assumptions. Okay, this is a dour discussion. That's exactly what we want to do. Then we talked about who Allah is why he exists, the Quran why the Quran is from Allah. And the Prophet saw someone why the prophet is the final prophet. And so it changes the debate from this kind of social political activism to one of calling to Allah according to tel heat. So that's a brief summary of how you can deconstruct this narrative. And if any LGBTQ plus advocates are watching this, I don't

00:43:45--> 00:44:23

mind having a public debate and discussion on the philosophical and moral foundations of these things. Because you are not allowed to have some epistemic humility. You're not allowed to start spreading this as if it's absolute as if it's come from the heavens and shoving it down our throats. And you ignore even the the empirical real life scenarios that you're actually destroying people and you know it. You're not allowed to do this have some epistemic humility, have an intellectual discussion? Yes, it'll be kind. We'll be passionate, be kind. And it won't be aggressive. But at least have that discussion, don't assume. And so who's the real bigot who's the real bigot they are

00:44:23--> 00:44:52

who is the real bigger the biggest Stonewall Stonewall as the key leading advocate for LGBT education in this country, you know that what you're doing is you're proselytizing your way of life on children. And then you try and make these, you know, strawman arguments. Oh, well, you know, Islam is taught in Irie, Islam is to an RV from a morally neutral point of view. No teacher stands in an RV class and says Guess what, you should become Muslim. No. Whereas you are telling our children that they can become gay or Muslim or

00:44:54--> 00:44:59

non Muslim parent was saying this goes against the Education Act, because the Education Act is that you have to have neutrality

00:45:00--> 00:45:29

But what they're doing, they're pushing this and you can't be like, I'm just looking at one story here, right? Yeah, well, I can't Qureshi, a well known activist who identifies as gay or Muslim, someone who's actually a charlatan, and shouldn't be taken seriously, but he's doing the rounds up and down the country. He's an individual basically, that there is no such thing as being punished or sinful for homosexual acts and Quran in the Quran. He's going Homosexuality is NOT SIN. He was absolutely because people will not assume or punished for their criminal activity, nothing to do with sodomy, nothing to do with,

00:45:30--> 00:45:43

you know, anal penetration between men or any of that stuff. So anyway, just a story. 50 students 50 students in WoodGreen Academy were put into isolation and discipline because they stood up to this guy.

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50 kids, but two months later, an investigation found an independent investigation found the Hong Kong Qureshi went overboard in his presentation, had these kids not stood up, then they would have done an investigation to find that this guy did actually transgress his remit, he stood there, and he's telling children, and this is gonna be happening across the country brothers and sisters, enabled by law by the policies that Hamza Yusuf is pushing. And that's just one aspect of the law, we haven't even got into abortion. We haven't gotten into gay conversion therapy. We haven't got into the many other policies that he's advocate, we haven't got to the fact that he's just appointed

00:46:25--> 00:47:03

a lesbian and a queer in two key ministerial positions by going to have the most direct correlation impact and effect on Muslims and Christians and Jews. So this is not a joke. You know, people talk about look up policies of the person to we've kept this conversation entirely to do with policies, whether he's a nice Muslim and he loves his community wants to do good he stands for Palestine, all that stuff. I there was one scholar who actually or a few, I don't know, maybe one or two actually promoted that video, or they said it was a good video, if I haven't watched the video, but if you what you're saying is true. And they just focus on the guy's personality. This is the most

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irrational, immature take on the matter. It's not even taking what is happening on the ground seriously, or the ideological trends that's affecting the Muslim community and humanity at large. We've got three is naive Weaver three issues we need to quickly address before we wrap up today's conversations, and that is the issue of align with the left, right, or what's broadly speaking as the liberal left right now we've seen in the US how that's panning out for the Muslims there. Yes. We've seen in the UK in a different socio sociological context where Labour has always been the party of the ethnic minorities, right? Because conservatives have always traditionally been seen as

00:47:43--> 00:48:11

the racist right wing party, right? Even though we've got Rishi Sunak we've got Serena Braverman, we've lost a Priti Patel. So label was always traditionally the party for the Muslims, the party for the ethnic minority, even though as Tony Blair, who waged a war in Iraq and killed a million Muslims, what is the issue with allied with the left as a banking strategy for preserving Muslim Rights? It's it's short term, and it's naive. So what do you do then? What should the Muslims just give our bro

00:48:12--> 00:48:55

that's the activism of the Muslims is to give Dawa is to see what Islam says sometimes if it happens to agree with a leftist left position. So be it if it happens to agree with the right position. So be it if it happens to agree with the centrist position. So be it the point is allow Assad to shape the discourse. And that is the activism of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So I think the easiest the best thing to do is to be brave, be close to Allah, have good spirituality. Be close to Allah, learn your deen and go out in the world and allow some to speak for itself. And I believe bro, if you allow some speak for itself in the short, medium and long term, we're going to be

00:48:55--> 00:49:35

successful. We're going to be successful because Allah makes it clear in the Quran itself. Those who are successful while welcoming Amma Tania de Luna Illa Haley Wyatt Morona William Adolphe bayonet Weyant Helena and in mon Karbala. EcoSan Wilma Flintstone let the rise amongst a group of people that will call to the care even case it says like the whole of Islam comparatively and related topics. they command the good to forbid the evil and they are the ones who will attain success. And in Surah limahl, Allah PCEye again, raised amongst the best nation from mankind, why have yet to enjoin good and forbid evil? And we say we believe in Allah. Yes. Now don't get me wrong. We don't

00:49:35--> 00:50:00

want to come across as like oh naive because we do understand that in certain contexts, there is the door opening to allow for an Islamic form of utilitarianism, meaning the muscle of Masada, but the muscle home so that's the next lesson. Yeah. So the Musleh. Masada has to be in line with the divine command and the divine principles. Yeah, not Oh, you know, I want to get powerful power sake. I mentioned those two yesterday. See

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King Powell was instrumental is not an end as a means is a means to work to make allies with the highest, to establish Islam to end in some context to increase the benefits for Islam and Muslims and to decrease the harms. But the way some of these brothers going on they're treating power bro, as an end is like the worshiping and glorifying power.

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With all due respect, I'd rather not be in that situation and to stick to my religion, to stick to what Allah has told me and not to deviate from the Divine commands and reject the divine commands. What's your thoughts on the message that I showed you from a very senior head activist from a particular movement? Who actually said that, you know, Hamza Yusuf, you know, he did his best to do something good in that Sky News interview, because ultimately, he's going to achieve something that none of us can

00:50:49--> 00:51:27

achieve. Okay, so So here's the two things number one, you know, which missed him took him Yeah, so So number one, look me. Yeah, so number one, he he definitely could have a ticket himself much better, because you had Christians who actually stuck to the on morals? Yeah. So he was basically saying is, I'm a coward or I don't have a ticket myself with all due respect. The other thing is, he's achieved something. What? Okay, wait, hold on a second, from what I understood in Islam. Our concepts of success is from the Quran and the Sunnah, right? And Allah says that the greatest triumph is entering Jannah. And yet, and that we have a good life, which is in line with Islamic

00:51:27--> 00:52:11

principles, right? So how is it successful, just because you're brown to be in a position of political power. And for you now to push policies that go against Allah go against what the messenger said, Sal, Allahu Allahu wa salam. And I'm going to be responsible for apostasy and responsible for dismantling necessary more hierarchies, and actually dismantling what it means to be a Muslim and destroying Western families. If you think that's an achievement, then with all due respect, you need to go you need to stay at home, and you do some serious, Toba, you need to repent to Allah? Because that's a serious issue, bro. How is that an achievement? And this is the problem

00:52:11--> 00:52:15

with a lot of the thinkers or brothers or whoever they are. They have that kind of

00:52:16--> 00:52:34

their notions of the world. And politics is not grounded in Western political theory. And it's even more grounded in Islamic discourse is like a false cocktail of both. And they don't really understand what's really going on in terms of ideological trends into the power structures, and so on and so forth. So

00:52:36--> 00:52:56

I think I've said enough on that one yesterday. I mean, and what advice would you give, because we have to speak about the kind of muscle, muscle and muscle and that kind of, what would you how do we deal with how do we manage because it happens all the time, election time, when it comes to voting? These arguments always pop up. We're on groups with these conversations.

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I don't think you should use social media for it, especially Twitter, because you're gonna have a good discussion, we need to understand that these areas are, in some cases, unprecedented. Because remember, we had a power if you like, we had authority. Muslims had authority in the land for like over 1000 1000 years. And so from that perspective, we're in a new era, a new phase of time. And yeah, these are going to be natural conversations to have and look, the first thing I would advise is always assume sincerity of your entire interlocutor, your brother, your sister, whoever you're having a discussion with, assume sincerity. Stand in the possibility that you might be wrong.

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And standing the possibility that they may be right, even if you feel very strongly, and also, when you're dealing with them come across and in a way that you're committed to the well being that you love them for the sake of Allah committed to the well being and to their guidance. If you and give up uses argumentation and debate and have Hickman understand the objective is for you to bring them closer to Allah and His messenger. Yeah. to to to obeying Allah and His messenger. So if that's your objective, then you use the correct means to achieve that. So don't don't go into uses argumentation. If you have that way of being, then you'd have more productive conversations is

00:54:16--> 00:54:51

usually is very, it almost becomes like gangs, my gang versus your gang. And I think that's an immature discussion. And we should just be able to sit down and have frank discussions. And at the end when you try and adopt all of the things that I've told you, they still don't agree with you then yeah, you can have your position and be assertive about it. No problem. I don't want to rile you up again. But we have seen that there has been deafening and pindrop silence when Hamza Yusuf was voicing these positions on his policies and stuff. But there was a lot of you know, sleeping lions who are woke was featured made a stockfeed video. Yeah, this is because you look where were

00:54:51--> 00:55:00

they when people did talk fear of magic numbers? No, where were they? Why? Because modular is not a lefty simple, in my view. So this is

00:55:00--> 00:55:37

shows that they have non negotiable ideological baggage. With all due respect. You can't just be a lying against hijab. And then what's worse, he jabs personal opinion about someone and didn't fit on someone which ultimately will affect him on on the day job if you get it wrong role, or what the policies of Hamza Yusuf, which is going to affect not just the generations to know that they may not, I don't want a straw man, they may return to you. But he Jobs got hundreds 1000s or hundreds of 1000s of followers, and he's promoting a takfiri ideology. That's ridiculous. We know his work. Everyone who follows Him knows his work. He's not a takfiri. And he's not an extremist, he's against

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violence is a threat against these things. So even to make that claim is, is a misrepresentation. But yeah, let's close it. Let's close. I mean, my closing remarks would be you know, all the brothers whom you've disagreed with in person online, offline, we love you all for the sake of the month of Ramadan is a month of mercy, forgiveness and victory. Behind the use of appointment as first semester was not a victory for some Muslims. This needs to be made clear. We've been told by people who we respect and love that look at the policies or not the personality, or we've told you LGBTQ education is going to increase to children as young as five, banning conversion therapy. We

00:56:18--> 00:56:29

cannot give Naseeha and educate our own to bring them back into a way of relationships. That is the only way which is understood in the Quran and Sunnah in our religion,

00:56:30--> 00:56:53

given the right for abortion, up to birth, murdering children, eight, nine months, this is crazy. The transgender recognition Bill, I'm asking every father and brother and husband out there, how would you feel if a transgender was given the legal access to where your women folk go get dressed and go get changed? Because that's what's going to happen.

00:56:54--> 00:57:30

The appointment of two lesbian ministers in key ministerial roles are going to have the most direct impact on Muslim, Christian Jewish families and communities. We've been told to look up policies we've only sighted policies. Yeah, we are to we are yet to hear from the other side about which policies that are symbolic to support. Yeah, I agree. What what what are we supposed to support? What ceiling has been shattered? I would rather stay under the ceiling. I don't want to shatter no ceilings it because if it means that we need to compromise and believe in these things, but I don't need to shatter any ceilings.

00:57:31--> 00:58:10

On another issue. He is not the Khalifa. He's not immediate. I mean, that's fine. Why did you have to tell Sky News that you're a practicing Muslim? That's going to be fasting. Why was the first picture you posted when you became the first minister was one of you praying? Why did you do that for it? Okay, okay, are respected Mashallah. And those who have said, you know, he's he's the leader of a secular country, the entire First Minister, SNP leadership, discourse and race was around faith. Kate Forbes, was also a given immediate Inquisition about her views. It was a tight race, but she stuck by her guns. She said, I cannot fathom a relationship and having children outside of

00:58:10--> 00:58:49

marriage. I can never support same sex marriage. I will not ban gay conversion therapy. No law guide. Yeah. I mean, how does that make you feel that a Christian woman stood for our faith and our values more than the Muslim did? Rather, what's happening here is that you all those who have defended him without citing a single policy to celebrate or defend, you are supporting his personality. You are supporting his personality? His his identity politics, this random Pakistani maybe. And this is and this is not right. But no one's questioning that he's not a nice brother. Yeah, I've seen pictures of him with some Musharraf from ISB. And from my syllabus and pictures from

00:58:49--> 00:59:05

many years ago. That's nice. Norman's question. They didn't do hate for his community. We're saying that he is the leader of a country now that's gonna push policies and in the last 72 hours, he's already getting the motions moving. Do you understand this is not a joke.

00:59:07--> 00:59:37

So that's what I had to say well as well I echo that. So hopefully this was a very productive video My dear brothers and sisters t shirt far and wide. And in order for people to benefit and I think it was a good conversation, it was an all that I have an article and all the references to the policies and everything that we mentioned will be in the description video and the description aspect of the video. So please make sure you look on that you click on that you understand it? Because everything that we mentioned was policy related, factual, and nothing was based on hating a personality of course. Exactly. So now when it comes to love summary