Atheism, Liberalism & Islam

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Hamza Tzortzis

Channel: Hamza Tzortzis

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Episode Transcript

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And then hamdulillah and we want to stay and we want to start from

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fusina Let me say that that Medina

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fell into a mosquito mosquito net

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Why should Mohammed Abu

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Bakar shalom on budget if you submitted

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your team when

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we

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were going over sued on a competitor. With that being said, I am honored and and I'm very delighted to have our one of the most dearest brothers to my brother zoetis he's with us today is the the president or the CEO of IRA I'm a big fan of him even though he does not know me but for people you know, we're trying to

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we're trying to be with Allah with the with those who who inshallah Allah subhanaw taala pleases with them. And you know, this is part of the Brotherhood amazing. We love each other even though we don't know each other. But this

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is just a quick correction. I'm not the CEO anymore, I left in January.

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God I know connected to the brothers Mashallah to continue to refer her.

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But but but we still love you regardless.

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So today, we're gonna be talking about a very, I would say, very interesting subject that is

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dedicated to our youth and pretty much everybody who is living in the 21st century, as far as like the doubts that exists around Islam. And here we're going to be talking about atheism, liberalism and Islam dealing with pseudo intellectual challenges, but

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with that being said, inshallah, we're going to be going through inshallah, just a quick commercial and then after that, we will give the floor to this brother.

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So like I said, Brother Hunter, coming here, and shall we know, this should not be our first session inshallah with you, we're trying to help Have you more often, but the lifestyle and the future. So with that being said, Brother hands, as you know, people are having an doubts about in a distinction, because now a lot of this is between us and other other faiths are now the new the new trends of liberalism and atheism, and people sometime having a rough time trying, I mean, and you know, especially the youth are being attracted to these isms, and they're not really sure what they're getting themselves into, and I think, with this topic, and we want to make sure that you

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kind of find a distinction between all of them and and see why Islam is Islam and why Islam is the perfect religion of Allah subhana wa Tada. So I'll give you

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Oh, right. Okay.

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So,

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I mean, well, I think the best way to start is I'll mention a few points and after we could basically have a conversation inshallah. So,

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Rahim, Al hamdu, lillah, WA Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah. So there's a few things that we can unpack here, obviously, in a few minutes, it's not going to be easy to unpack everything to the degree where it is very detailed. But the whole point of this introduction is to get you thinking gate asking questions and starting the conversation.

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The first thing I want to say first and foremost is we have to understand that the human being is not a robot. The human being is not a computer whereby you type in an algorithm, or some kind of code. And you're going to have a belief or a behavior, human being simply do not work that way. And unfortunately, we're in the dour when we're talking to you about Islam, sometimes we treat human being like a robot, we treat human beings like a computer, when we think we could give them some kind of algorithmic truth. And that behavior is going to change automatically. And we fall for what I call an epistemological trap, we fall for a trap, which is we think we should always prove things

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in an abstract rational way. Don't get me wrong, we have amazing proofs and evidence for our tradition. However, when you're engaging with the human being, you have to engage with the human being not with an AI machine or a computer. And, and sometimes the assumption or the subconscious assumption is when we're dealing with human beings, we just give them these abstract proofs. And this is why when you genuinely speaking, look at the son of the Prophet salallahu it who is seldom the DAO is individualized meaning Yes, there are broad categories of people but when you're engaging with individuals, you have to understand their context. This is why people became Muslim for so many

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different reasons because they are different persons.

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analogy trades, different attributes and so on and so forth. So the reason I'm mentioning this is because we have to appreciate in the context of any type of dow even if it's atheism or liberalism or Christianity is that a human being must be understood as the human being. And the best way to understand this is by understanding what Allah tells us about the human being, no our own

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pseudo intellectual notions of what it means to be human. So Allah talks about and the Sunnah and our classical tradition, they speak about that we have a rule, we have a soul, we have an opcode, we have an intellect, we have a verb, and the alcohol is a function of the color. According to Mr lemma, we have a knifes a psychological disposition and ego, we have a fitrah. Okay, and this fitrah

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is very important for the in the context of the Dow. Why? Because the fitrah according to the two main classical opinions, either has knowledge within it very basic knowledge, call it primary knowledge that aligns with your worship that He exists, or the fitrah is that it's like a vehicle and it drives you towards the truth, okay. But based on the Hadith in Sahih, Muslim the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said that every child is born in a state of fitrah. But then his parents change him. That's the paraphrasing of the Hadith. So you could basically make a metaphor and say that it's as if the fitrah is clouded. Right, the fitter becomes clouded. And people can't see the

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truth. That's what's that's already within them. If you follow that opinion of the fitrah. If you follow the other opinion, where it's like a vehicle, the windscreen is clouded and the fitrah can direct you towards the truth because it's a clouded Winston windscreen. So in the context of dour, there are different ways to uncover the fitrah. To facilitate the truth. It's not always rational arguments, it's not always just good behavior, it could be a combination, it could be getting them to think it could be giving them access to direct revelation, and so on and so forth. And we have to be intellectually and spiritually mature when we're dealing with our brothers and sisters in

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humanity. Because we have to know that our metaphysic our understanding of what it means to be human is that they have this fitrah but it's, it's clouded. So our job as duat is to uncover the fitrah to facilitate the truth. Now, the question is, how do we uncover the fitrah? Hmm, that's the big question. And you won't get an answer unless you start doing dour, you won't get an answer, because it's all about experience, you have to appreciate the individual for the individual is. So for some people, if you're sensitive to their context, they just might need rational arguments. Other people, they need a hug other people they want to hit on other people, they want to learn about the

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teachings of the Prophet sallallahu, ala, who are some other people, they want to know how we worship, other people, it's a combination of all of these things. So the point here is, we have to be very mature and understand this, this is the number one point.

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So in the context of atheism, we have to appreciate that every atheist sometime is different. They may have the same question. But the reason for the question could be different. So for some they weren't a rational answer. For others. It could be a veil that is hiding some other issue could be a psychological psychodynamic issue, emotional issues spiritual issue. We don't know.

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So we need to treat each individual as a particular individual. So when we're dealing with atheists, we have to understand that how do I unplowed, the fifth was to facilitate the truth. Now, obviously, we're not here to go through like the almost infinite number of ways on coding the Fitts law, but one very powerful way is obviously number one, focusing on rational arguments because we live in a rational world. But we should use the arguments of the Quran because the arguments of the Quran are the best arguments. And even to hear that the 14th century theologian may Allah have mentioned him he said there is no contradiction between a sound aka a sound intellect and the book of Allah

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subhanho wa Taala. Even other scholars would refer to the Quran and refer to our tradition concerning rational arguments, such as a hobby, a booster, a man or hobby alexza Lee, the 11th century theologian, and so on and so forth. So, for me when it comes to a rational argument, the best argument in my view, or one of the best arguments is from chapter 52, verses 35 to 36. When Allah subhanho wa Taala says, Did you come from nothing? Did you create yourself? Did you create the heavens on earth? Then lay up? No, indeed, you have no certainty.

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So there's a beautiful structure to this argument, because Allah says, Julio, meaning you who are created that will you created. Now you could apply this not just to the human being, but to anything that was created, anything that is mock look, anything that is more than that came into existence. So you could apply the logical summary of these questions, not only to yourself, not only to the human being, but also to the whole cosmos. So, the idea here is that you could unravel universal logical principles from this argument. For example, say, we affirm that the universe is math, Luke had a beginning, if it had a beginning, we could ask, did it come from nothing? Did it create

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itself? Did it create something else though? was it created by something else that was created? Or was it created by something uncreated? These are the four logical possibility is derived from the Quran? Why, let me remind you, Allah says, Did you come from nothing? So the logical principle here is, did it come from nothing? Then Allah says, you create yourself. So the logical principle here is self creation? Did it did it come into existence by ownself? Then the third one, did you see the human being the created thing create the heavens and the earth, another created thing? So the logical question here is, what was the universe that was created? was it created by something else

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that was created? Ultimately, then Allah says belly up? No, indeed, you have no certainty, which is a way of like mubadala, a rhetorical way in a way to say you have no certainty there is an uncreated creator, okay? And these are the logical explanations. And when we apply it to the universe, we know the universe can come from nothing, because from nothing, nothing comes. And obviously, there's more to unpack there. But that's for the questions. We know it couldn't create itself, because if something created itself, it means they had power to create something before even existed. And it means that something can exist and not exist at the same time, which is a logical impossibility. We

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know it wasn't ultimately created by something else that was created like another universe, because of the absurdity of the infinite regress of causes right. And therefore there must be an uncreated creator. Well, like brothers and sisters, I've used the structure of this argument from the Quran, two professors, major professors, Professor Lawrence Krauss.

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I think I use it with Professor Simon Blackburn, I used it with so many others, and I'm telling you there wasn't there wasn't no defeated, they couldn't defeat ultimately the argument. Obviously, they'll bring some shewhart like, Oh, you know, the quantum vacuum is nothing particles come from this nothing. But that's false. Because we know the quantum vacuum is not nothing that we we understand, because nothing means no potential no prior causal conditions in absence of anything, but the quantum vacuum is a co fluctuating energy. It's a rich structure, it's a physical thing, right. So that a force should have it's a false specious argument false argument. Also, they may say

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things like, for instance,

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you know, how can causality make sense outside of the universe, you know, fine, we know this cause and effect in the universe, but outside of the universe, we have to stay quiet. Well, we have to have Robert some of the, the shoe bohart. Here, they have an assumption here, they assume that because it is an empirical principle that we only understand causality from our direct experience. But actually, it's the other way around, you need an understanding of causal connections before you even understand any experience in the first place, and so on and so forth. So they can bring this these type of shoe bohart. But when we address them, this argument is very solid, and it's

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intuitive. Now, the thing I want to mention about these is, in the end, they have two main functions. The second function is what we've just discussed, is very rational, gives you these logical principles. You the human being, you couldn't come from nothing, you couldn't create yourself, you couldn't create the heavens and the earth. And

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you know that you have no certainty if you reject a law. And you could apply this to the universe couldn't come from nothing, the universe couldn't create itself. It couldn't be created, ultimately, but something else that was created, therefore, there's an uncreated creator, so you could use it for that. However, the primary function is what you call an existential spiritual function, meaning Allah is giving you these questions and by reflecting on these questions in a natural way, is going to awaken you.

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And voila, he brothers and sisters, I was in petard many years ago in a shopping center. I think it was Qatar. And I was speaking to a Chinese businessman who was running his own technology store or something. And I raised these type of questions to him. And he started from an atheist and then ended up saying, You know what, I think it makes sense that there's a creator for my remember, that's what he said, just by asking questions sometimes and obviously unpacking a few of the issues. But these questions are so powerful if people are sincere. So there's two primary factors

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To these ayat, so there's many other things that we can talk about. But you should focus on the Quran, you'll never go wrong. And the Quran has universal philosophical principles that we could apply as an argument. You don't have to say to someone, you have to believe in these verses in order for the argument to work. No, you could universalize them just like what we've just done. So let me just repeat, the universe had a beginning, if you had a beginning, did it come from nothing? Did it create itself? Was it ultimately created by something else created? Or was it created by something uncreated? you unpack these logical possibilities, and the only rational possibility is that it came

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from an uncreated creator, which makes sense to sort of floss, which makes sense of the Hadith, which makes sense of our understanding of Allah subhanho wa Taala. Well, that's one thing I mentioned. Why would it it makes no sense for for the universe to be created by something that is created is

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Yeah. Otherwise Oh, before

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Hamza will answer.

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Guys, make sure you buy this book. Okay. This is like,

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yeah, so this is the

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you have the you have the old version, that now we have a free downloadable online course. So if they go to, if they go to Sapiens institute.org forward slash books. What they do is they could download it for free. And it's an it's a, it's a newly revised edition and it's been improved other contentions and the typos have been fixed inshallah, so, you could download it from Sapiens Institute, forward slash books, actually, I'll send it to you here on the on the chat, please, you

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can get it for free inshallah. And it's an updated version. Okay, good. So

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what was your question? Again, as I said, What what what do we have to say that the universe was created by something that is created versus something that is uncreated? Good, very good question. So Bismillah, we are not denying that there could possibly be something outside the universe that was used as a cause for the universe to come into existence. We're not really arguing that we can appreciate say there are other causes as well. All we're saying ultimately, the the day to the thing that caused everything has to be uncreated. And let me explain why. It's because of the concept of the absurdity of the infinite regress of causes no events, but causes. And this is something that

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there is an edge on, there is even taymiyah argued this, Allah ghazali argued this, obviously, there's a difference of views concerning infinite regress of events. But that's a different discussion in our theology. We don't have to unpack it here. But with regards to you, you know, basic understanding of arcaded how we a basic understanding of mainstream creed, and infinite regress of causes is a logical impossibility. Let me explain why. So the first thing I would say is this, okay, imagine the universe was created by a universe prior to it. So we asked the question, Well, what about that universe? How did that come into existence? It was created by another

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universe. Okay. What about that universe? How did it come into existence? Because it had a beginning to?

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Well, it was created by another universe. Now, if you go on forever, you will never have our universe today, you will never have our Universe Today. For this for our universe to come into existence. There had to be a forever chain of causes. But when something is going on forever, it never ends. Therefore, our universe will never come into existence. Let me give you an easier example. Imagine I go to

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i, okay, imagine I go to London, and I go on the bus. Hopefully you guys know what a bus is. Right? in America. It's, it's like a coat. Yeah. Do you notice?

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You know, even what school buses? So imagine I go to the school bus and I have to pay the bus driver. I have to pay him $5. Okay. Now, I don't have much change. I have $100 bill. So I give him $100. And then he says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's that's a big, that's $100 I have to give you $95 change. So he says because I have to give you a lot of change. I have to pick up the phone and call my boss to give me permission. So he calls his boss. His boss picks up, then his boss says you know what? I can't answer that question. It's above my paygrade I have to ask my boss. So his boss

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also says the same answer. I have to ask my boss. Now if that went on forever, would I ever get my change? I will never get my change. So this is why.

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Yeah, so

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this is why you can't have an infinite regress of causes which is very different. For example, it's good that you mentioned gender.

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Because we believe generalize forever, we believe the aka is forever for sure. But that's not an infinite regress. That is something that Allah something that Allah is continuing. Because in any point, when you look at the the Quran and the Sunnah, at any point in Jannah, if you press pause, you can say, I've been here for a billion years, then you can wait another time, then you could say, I've been here for 2 billion years, there is never going to be a moment in Jannah, when you're going to say I have been here for an infinite number of years. Why? Because it's always continuing, it's always adding to the time. So it's a different concept. And the concept of infinite regress of

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causes is very different to the concept of infinity in terms of time. So the two separate ideas anyway, because what we're saying here is if this universe for it to come into existence, if it came into existence, because of the causal power of something before it, but that thing before it had to get its causal power by something else before if it goes on forever, nothing would have causal power, and we wouldn't have the Universe Today. So you know, Dr. Jafar, Idris, he makes this point that if that were the case, we wouldn't have any existence at all, it would be just non existence. So that's, that's how you answer the question why you can't have an infinite regress of causes from

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that perspective.

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There's no law. So

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this closer, must have

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settled of characteristics that makes them to be a coozer different than another creation, like for instance, and

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yeah, but for instance, this cause that cannot be part of his creation has to be

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powerful.

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If you can also look, you know, elaborate on that.

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Sure. So, you know, the first thing we want to understand is, well, we know this, this cause is eternal, okay. Because he's uncreated. And we want to affirm that through our argument. And therefore we say, Well, if the if he if if the cause created the entire universe, then it's not of the Universe by greater reason. Let me explain if I made a table, if I'm a carpenter, and I made a table, I don't become the table. The table is distinct and just just joined from me. Likewise, we affirm what Allah says in the Quran LASIK immensely he shade there's nothing like Allah subhanho wa Taala. In actual fact,

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that's the wrong translation. There is nothing like his example. LASIK, committed cliche. Yeah. So it's like a rhetorical ploy to say, no, we're not saying there's nothing like there's nothing like something that you could think that is something like Allah. So it's affirming pure transcendence, right.

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And as even taymiyah said, creation is distinct and destroying from the creator from that perspective. So he's transcendent. It affirms what the thing, then we're also affirming that he or when Allah says, and many verses in the Quran that Allah has power over all things, Allah is powerful, that is a think about irrationally, the universe, and whether whatever is within it has potential has potential power. For example, you take one of the atoms in the universe, and you split the atom, then it releases a hell of a lot of energy. You see any power all around you from the stars, from the movement and all of this stuff? Where did that power come from? Right, and Allah

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subhanho wa Taala created the universe, the entire cosmos, right? With masses of stars and so much energy and all of that stuff, it follows that the one who created the universe is powerful. Also, it follows that the one who created the universe is knowing has knowledge, why? Because we see patterns in the universe, we have a mathematical structure to the cosmos, we have physical laws. Now that implies a law giver or some type of intelligence which implies knowledge, right? So you have transcendent, eternal, knowing powerful

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also, this cause must have a will, must have an erotica, right must have a will, because he because if he is eternal, because he's uncreated, and he brought into existence, the universe that had a beginning in time, he must have chose the universe to come into existence, because why did it come into existence at this time and another time, there must be a choice to make a distinction between two different times that it came into existence and a choice indicates a will, which means that it has eroded and so on so forth. So and this is very important to understand. However, we need to be very clear. We can't rationalize all of our last names and attributes because

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These come from the keytab in the sun. So when Allah says he is a Latif, he is the sutra in his kindness. When Allah says he is Albar, he is the source of all goodness. When Allah says he is a man, he is oh Rahim. He is the intensity merciful, he is the specially merciful. When Allah says Allah will dude, he is the loving. When Allah says all of his names and attributes in the keytab in the center, we affirm them, because they've come from sources of Revelation. But at the same time, you can reflect on the cosmos to a degree to come to the conclusion of these type of attributes, because they are rational in nature, if you use a sound up and as even pay on the student have even

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taymiyah he said, Look, you know, you could look into the cosmos and read and reflect the laws, names and attributes from that perspective. But there is a limitation because their mind is limited to understand Allah subhanho wa Taala because Allah is transcendent, and he is a maximally perfect because when we think about Allah, his names and attributes, we believe that they are transcendent, and they are maximally perfect to the highest degree possible. And, you know, when we think about things like ullas knowledge, or less knowledge is beyond anything we can imagine, right? Because we have the pixel, Allah has the picture, and we can't even access that picture, if you like. Yeah. So

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we have to understand the role of the bind here as well, by inserting things like we could affirm his existence, we could affirm his power and that his knowing these are easy things to understand. And what's very interesting, always stick to sort of a class from that perspective, because there is a very fundamental kind of understanding of Allah subhanho wa Taala. So what does the law say? Who, who Allahu Ahad say Allah, Allah, Allah the day to Allah is uniquely one, okay? So as you already have affirming transcendence, because I had is not like saying Whitehead, lots of things could be Whitehead, but I had is uniquely one that Allah says, Allah summit, Allah is the self subsisting,

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the independent, the indivisibly one, if you understand the, the terminology in the Quran here, then Allah says, the ultimate lemmya lead Well, I'm youlet And Allah does not give birth, no, no, no, no was he born, and there is nothing like him, so affirming the transcendence. And within that, this is like a very kind of beautiful way of keeping within the boundaries of understanding what you can and cannot say, to a certain degree. Because for example, what sort of a clause do it affirms that there is a duty, and when you affirm there is a duty, then you know, the duty is eternal, then you know, it's knowing and you know, it has to be powerful. And you affirm that he is uniquely one is

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independent, indivisibly one, you know, he didn't have a beginning, he's never gonna have an end. He's eternal, he wasn't born, he doesn't give birth. And there is nothing that I can tell him he has transcended. And what the beautiful thing here is, when we rationalize, we use our sound. And we use the arguments of the crann, to come to the conclusion Allah exists. It's in line with sort of a class and sort of classes spiritual, rational and make sense to people. And that is a good criteria in order to, like, you know, a firm that existence in the nature of a lot of panelboards. Allah using your stick to what sort of class of firms I think that's a good criteria. It's not 100%. But

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that's a good place to start. However, and we need to mention this doctor, yeah, please, I don't like using arguments just to prove there is a creator, I don't do this anymore. I try not to even when I teach this, I always end. Let's now link it to why Allah is worthy of worship. Beautiful, because the primary function of the Quran, if you like, is to announce a lot to humanity. To say that Allah is worthy of worship. Because it says about the Quran, if you ask them who created the heavens and the earth, they will say, Allah, their main problem is that they didn't understand Allah. They didn't affirm his true nature. And they didn't actually manifest the fact that he is the

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only day to worthy of worship because they associate partners with a loss of time. So what I like doing is once you can affirm as an uncreated creator, don't miss the opportunity to go straight to the important purpose in life, which the prime says, is to worship Allah. So how do we do this? Using this argument? It's very easy and hamdulillah once you get them to conclude as an uncreated creator than you asked the question, so therefore, who created you?

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And if he created you, then he's given you something that is priceless,

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that you don't earn on or deserve. And that's every conscious moment of your existence. Because it's priceless because if I said to you had 10 minutes left to live, and in order to get another 10 days, you have to give me all of your wealth. You will give me all of your wealth. It's priceless.

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We don't earn or deserve it, we can't even create a fly.

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And what can we do to deserve this priceless gift? And yet is given to you freely at every moment of your existence? And if that's the case, how should it make you feel grateful. And gratitude is a key to worship. If you look at sort of Al Fatiha, which is on keytab, which is the mother of the Quran, and the mother of the Quran is a story of tawheed.

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Allah says in on keytab in Surah, Al Fatiha in the first line, Al hamdu, lillahi, rabbil, alameen, all perfect, gratitude, all perfect Praise and Gratitude belongs to Allah subhanho wa Taala, the Lord of everything that exists, and gratitude, ultimate gratitude is the key to worship. So that's how it link it to worship, linking it to gratitude, because you have a creator who created you, and he's given you something that you don't earn or deserve. And it's priceless. Yeah, it's freely given to you. And this is why should act doesn't make any sense. Because if I gave you $100, every day, after a year, I come to see you, you should think the one who gave you the $100. But what should it

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does is they think the dollars themselves, right? So this is why it's very, very important to always link our argumentation or positions to the main purpose in life as best as possible. Obviously, when you're addressing some schubach, you can't do that, by as a general rule, always bring it back to why Allah is worthy of gratitude, while others worthy of our love, and so on and so forth, and our obedience as well. Because if you think about the idea of worshipping Islam,

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worship is entails that you know, Allah, that you love Allah, that you obey Allah and you direct all acts of worship, the internal acts of worship, and the external acts of worship to Allah alone. And you know, it's very beautiful here Dr. of some time. And I mentioned this in the beginning, we don't have to have a rational argument, you could give them an existential argument, meaning, what does it mean to be me? What does it mean to exist? Because I want everyone to reflect on chapter 39, verse 29, wildly beautiful, honestly. What does Allah tell us in chapter 39, verse 29, let me paraphrase for you. Allah says, consider the situation of two people. One man is a slave to many masters, and

00:32:27--> 00:32:33

they're all arguing, and another man, he's a slave to one master, whose condition his best

00:32:35--> 00:32:54

allies almost trying to say to us. If you don't worship Allah, your true Lord, Your true master, the one has more than one that has more affection for you than your own mother, you're going to be worshiping something else. Because the default position for the human being is to worship something, even if you reject Allah subhana wa Taala.

00:32:55--> 00:33:37

In the Quran, Have you not seen the one who takes his own? How are his own desires his Lord, right? They take their rabbis and monks as their loads, and so on and so forth. As Martin lings, he wrote something very, very, very amazing. It was a beautiful one, a few sentences, he said, Man cannot not worship. Everyone's in a state of worship, even if you reject a lot. Why? Because you remember, worship is universalize. This principle, if there's something that you want to know the most at one point in your life, there is something that you love the most at one point in your life. There's something that you obey or refer to the most at one point in your life. There's something that you

00:33:37--> 00:34:16

express acts of worship, like gratitude towards at one point in your life, that's your object of worship. And for some people, it's the ego. For some people, it's an ideology for some people is white supremacism. For some people, it's an object for some people is this and the other. For some people. It's the universe itself. The whole universe is like one idol for people, right? So from this perspective, you're in a state of worship and crime came down to show you who is worthy of that worship. And once you've read the Quran, you'll understand who's worthy of worship straightaway. So that's another very powerful central argument to get people thinking, well, if he's right from that

00:34:16--> 00:34:38

perspective, I'm worshiping something I should worship them on that is really worthy of worship. And he reminds me of the poetry of the the Pakistani poet. cabal, he said, this one such de this one frustration, that you find so difficult, frees you from 1000 frustrations.

00:34:39--> 00:34:41

Yeah, beautiful. Most of

00:34:45--> 00:35:00

that came to her. Because thing is me It truly if if someone does not worship Allah subhanho wa Taala did eventually, whether they like it or not, they're worshiping something else. And as Allah, Allah said, Monica ala, Ha, Ha Have you

00:35:00--> 00:35:37

See the person who is taking this on knifes his own, his own his own ego as its own Lord. And unless this is the distinction between us, and you know, you know, and the IRS and possibly even the liberals are never gonna show that we're gonna get into that. The issue here is that, even though they claim they're not worshiping anything, but in reality, they're worshiping something, it could be watching an ideology, like you mentioned, or they could be watching the style, or their worship, or they're worshipping, you know, possibly some set of laws that they're not aware of. And so this is this is extremely important, because at the end of the day, people, but you know, I'm sure he's

00:35:37--> 00:35:48

gonna be talking about this, the issue of liberalism, you know, the people, yes, they even though they claim that worshipping Allah subhanho, wa Taala. But at the end of the day, they're worshiping something else, you know,

00:35:50--> 00:35:51

they are submitting to something else.

00:35:53--> 00:36:02

And the question here that we want to ask, as all of the audience, and maybe this gift given and ammunition or use is the fact that,

00:36:04--> 00:36:19

you know, that at least you're submitting yourself to the most powerful one. Yes, that is worthy of worship, as the panel is the most. So I just wanted to come on, because this is really well, though, of course, look, a lot

00:36:20--> 00:36:23

of times I go on and on you have to you have.

00:36:27--> 00:37:05

So how does it distinguish us? Yeah, Hamza from like, from other people like, because this is this is really important when it comes to, you know, contemporary ideologies of atheism. And, and, and, and that was, you know, you know, quote, unquote, you know, liberalism, how does that make a difference? Yeah, so obviously make a different from the atheist, because we affirm that there is a Creator of the heavens and the earth is uncreated is the most rational conclusion and that we worship Him because we know He's worthy of worship. So that's a massive distinction. And the distinction with the liberals is a little bit more subtle, because when you look at liberalism,

00:37:05--> 00:37:39

really, I like to define it as the worship of the self. That's what it is really. I mean, you could write books in it and try to be academic. But what law Hey, you reduce it, you boil it down, you reduce it to one thing, the idea that you mentioned that they take the hell out of the ILA as the load. Now, I know this sounds rhetorical, but let me explain what I mean by this. See, liberalism is a disputatious set of doctrines. But if you reduce liberalism to its premise, its philosophical premise. Really, what you find is something called individualism. Okay.

00:37:40--> 00:37:58

So this is a firm by many like Professor Charles Taylor, Professor, Marilyn Friedman, I believe paret professors on chavi, as well, they had this kind of understanding that liberalism is based on the individual, what is individualism? It's also known as atomism in political philosophy as well. So individualism is,

00:38:00--> 00:38:43

as in the words of the feminist philosopher Marilyn Friedman is quite striking down quoting a feminist philosopher, but you made a good point. She said that individualism is seeing the individuals an abstract entity divorced from social obligations and attachments. So they abstract an atomized individual away from society. That's number one. Number two, they give the individual primacy. So they they make the individual sovereign. Yeah. So that's why when you hear words like freedom and equality, sometimes Muslims just lap it up. Like, yeah, we wouldn't be free and happy quality. We don't disagree with these notions, but we disagree with the liberalized version of these

00:38:43--> 00:39:24

notions. Right? Because what does freedom mean? Take freedom as an example, I want to be free. Okay, what does freedom mean? Now hamdulillah. For my for my MA in philosophy, I did a, a module on the idea of freedom. Okay, I have a distinction from my paper on discussing what freedom is. And, you know, freedom essentially, is the absence of coercion. Now, when you look at many thought experiments, the absence of coercion really means that your rights are being violated. That's what it means freedom, if you boil it down, is the non violation of rights. So then they raise a question, hold on a second.

00:39:26--> 00:39:28

What conception of rights?

00:39:29--> 00:39:36

Whose conception of rights? Because there are different countries, you have the libertarian view, you have the socialists, you have different conception of rights.

00:39:38--> 00:39:59

This is really an enlightenment. I'm amazed of how you define individualism. So I'm really like curious now like, how would they justify a form of government? How would they justify a government pause? How do they justify having like, you know, you know, not stopping at the red lights.

00:40:00--> 00:40:14

Well, this this woman because, you know individuals have have the, how have the sovereignty over everything like? Yes, like at the end of the day, it's really destructive. I'm just wondering, oh, how do they justify these things? Good.

00:40:15--> 00:40:43

Let, let me give you a an example that we could juxtapose with Islam. Yeah. So for example, when you give primacy to the individual, when you give the individual rights, you will see it from an individualistic perspective if you adopt liberalism. So that's why even when you look at the UN Charter of human rights, with all due respect, we've universalize this like is why it's not why you look at the history who developed these things. And the person who developed it was a hobbyist. He was a hobbyist type him up.

00:40:46--> 00:40:51

I mean, I mean, what can we say we have to say a spade, a spade is a spade.

00:40:52--> 00:40:53

We're not.

00:40:54--> 00:41:35

We're not denying the notion of who cook on a bed. Of course, our tradition preserves the dignity of people. You know what peace loving harmony would preserve the lineage of people their mind, we have these mahshid we have these higher moral objectives of Islam and we take care of individuals or individuals, no problem. However, you have to see this that your philosophical understanding your lens is going to shape the way you see morality, the way you see equality, the way you see freedom and the way you see these values. So let me give an example with law. Generally speaking, in a liberal society, they're like, when someone for example,

00:41:36--> 00:41:38

steals, they steal money,

00:41:39--> 00:41:48

they're gonna have a punishment, depending on how much they stole depending on the context, of course, but say the punishment is going to be three months in prison, right?

00:41:50--> 00:42:29

Now, the reason they give them three months because as they have individualized, the person and individualize the act, okay, because of this premise of individualism. So they're saying, we have to give primacy to the individual. So his freedom comes first. His the person comes first, his well being comes first. social connections are secondary, if they exist at all. So let's say what kind of good punishment is going to be three months is enough. Now, juxtapose this with the Islamic perspective, they will be like, Oh, my God, you guys are barbaric. Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's let's calm down for one moment.

00:42:30--> 00:43:10

We don't see things the way you see things we don't see from an individualist premise. Because we see the human being as part of a social fabric that is interconnected. If you remember the famous Hadith, about the Hoot of Allah subhana wa sallam, two people on the boat. The people in the boat get water to the people at the bottom deck. But one day, they stopped giving water, and I'm paraphrasing the Hadees obviously, and they make a hole in the bottom of the boat and the whole boat sinks. Society sinks from that perspective, this Hadees gives us many lessons. One lesson is that there is a relationship between the individual and society seiten individual in a way that is not in

00:43:10--> 00:43:36

line with the liberal narrative, okay. So when we say someone is stealing, and and they get caught with the very hard conditions in the Islamic law, because as you know, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam basically taught us and suli principle, which is, if you're in doubt, you don't punish anyone is better to release nine utpb than 101 innocent person to be punished. Our concept of

00:43:37--> 00:44:18

of evidence in law is very stringent. Yeah, it's not beyond reasonable doubt. It's like, No, you have to be certain Yeah, when it comes to these, what you would call suitably harsh punishments, but you have to understand it in the context of our understanding of what it means to be an individual because we know the individual and his actions affects society and vice versa. There's a dynamic interplay. Not only that, we don't have a liberal society where we don't promote the common good, because technically, in political philosophy in liberalism, they don't really talk about what is more, what is moral, what is the moral thing to do in society. And that's why many thinkers, they

00:44:18--> 00:44:57

talk about this kind of vacuum of values. And they believe that each individual because he's a sovereign, he has an anchor, he has an intellect, they will discuss with other individuals will be a competition of values. Yeah, we don't have that views. You know, we actually put our flag down some when we say no, these are the good values to follow the cohesive values in society. So when you understand the Islamic social model, the punishment system, the stringent rules, and the criteria to actually enact the punishment is so on and so forth. And you understand our philosophy and what it means to be an individual in society. We don't abstract him or individualize him. We know that there

00:44:57--> 00:44:59

are repercussions X, Y, and Z.

00:45:00--> 00:45:03

Then you, you see that the paradigm is totally different.

00:45:04--> 00:45:17

But obviously I've just paraphrased here, and it requires a lot of unpacking. But the reason I wanted to give this an example is sometimes Muslims and unfortunate, especially in North America, we have fallen for the trap of liberalism.

00:45:19--> 00:46:00

We have really fallen for this trap, which I am quite scared that maybe in the next decade or so, Islam is going to be fundamentally distorted from an ethical or maybe even creedal perspective. Yeah, because we haven't understood that there is a premise that liberalism holds that goes against the Islamic perspective, not only that, it goes against truth, because to believe that the human being is atomized and individualized in this way is not in line with reality. Think about how the human being is born, the human being is born, and is dependent on a social structure in a society and other people in order for it to grow and develop. You're not an individual you wasn't catapulted

00:46:00--> 00:46:41

from your mother's womb with a briefcase in a tie in a bank balance. Now the below do you think you are? This is arrogance? Yeah. Not only that, when you study developmental psychology, I think they've moved away from the Piaget theory of the individual is construct meaning that the baby learns, individually, no. babies learn and they develop with social interactions, right? And so on and so forth. So even the fundamental premise is totally absurd. It isn't, doesn't make sense in reality. And we see this in many liberal societies. And by the way, look, there's no, I don't think there's such thing as a pure liberal society, because they have to mix different things in there in

00:46:41--> 00:47:16

order for society to function, because they realize that if you were just to be a pure liberal society, it would be social fragmentation and decay. That was happening in many countries anyway. So but the point I wanted to raise here is that individualism focus on the self and gives us self primacy, and makes us self sovereign. And, you know, you come first society comes second, from that perspective. And what does that create? That basically creates a different moral worldview? Because you see it through the prism of individualism. And not only that,

00:47:18--> 00:47:55

over time, if if this becomes influential, even on a popular level, it creates people who start to worship themselves. who worship the house. Ah, oh, it's my freedom. I want to do it. Right. Yeah. is is is is my right, yeah, I can do this, you know, I'm gonna do whatever I want, you know, these type of attitudes. Yeah. And, and, unfortunately, some of our Muslim youth because they've been brought up in this kind of philosophically liberalism, philosophical liberalism, you know, they may not call it that, but it's it permeates society, and they can't unravel some of these notions.

00:47:56--> 00:48:36

And this is why I wanted to talk about freedom in the beginning, because even the notion of understanding freedom, you could understand it from a liberal perspective, any other perspective, it's not like, everyone, no, it's not like there is a universal understanding what freedom actually is, they've made that universal because the dominant ideology in play, but at the end of the day, freedom is the absence of coercion in the absence of coercion is the non violation of rights. So the question here now is, what type of rights a libertarian type of rights socialist type of rights, Islamic type or right, who has the right to draw the line in a way, so from the Islamic perspective,

00:48:36--> 00:49:05

we believe Allah subhanho, wa Taala is above is the source of all goodness, Allah is Allah, Allah is Al Hakim, he is the knowing us the wise, when he commands something, it's in line with who he is. It's all good. It's all wise. And it's very good for us, right? And this is why when Allah says, These are the rights for human beings, violating those rights would be a violation of your liberty, for sure. But don't tell me a violation of rights that Allah hasn't given you,

00:49:06--> 00:49:44

is a violation of your liberty because those rights are not rights because they haven't come from a law they've come from a liberal paradigm. And but to unravel, all of this is sometimes very difficult in the public discourse, and we have to be brave and mature. And we also have to teach the liberal something just because we disagree with your fundamental philosophical premise. It doesn't mean we hate it doesn't mean that we want to like you know, harm anyone know Islam teaches us to have him to have forbearance to have the right Ma. Allah says in the Quran, good and evil are not the same. repelled by that which is better. If there's hatred between any two people who tend to

00:49:44--> 00:49:59

intimate friendship, you know, we have sublime values we don't want to we don't want to harm anyone. There is no harming and no reciprocating of harm. This is a hadith of prophetic tradition is a legal principle as well in Islamic tradition, no harm you know, reciprocate harm.

00:50:00--> 00:50:20

So, and this is very, very important point to make sure because when people disagree with the mainstream ideology, you have the ideologue saying, oh, you're a person of Hey, you don't like freedom. You don't like rights? No, no, no, no, we've never said that today. Oh, you want us to have a virtual intellectual discussion on the Nazi?

00:50:21--> 00:50:23

On that note, my thing is, like you mentioned,

00:50:25--> 00:50:27

following individualistic

00:50:28--> 00:51:00

ideologies, and it's usually usually it's comes through or laws. Truth usually comes through trial and error. Like, for instance, like the example that you just mentioned, you know, somebody stole something, well, let's put it to them for three months. Oh, you know, what I object, let's make it five months. And they keep, you know, trial and error until they eventually settle down to made possible with a divine, Allah subhanaw taala? How have preordained you know, since the beginning. So I think a lot of people are not seeing the consequences

00:51:02--> 00:51:29

of adopting individualism or liberalism, if you could lead shipment, because thing is, you know, and I'm sure I'm sure you mentioned that in many of your doctors, you know, like, you know, fine, okay, we disagree with them, the way they think, but how much how much this affects the society, you know, because people know about, you know, they're committing suicide, you know, children are being abandoned, the

00:51:31--> 00:51:46

families are being destroyed. There's no connection between the family. So if you could kind of come under, because I want to, I want our viewers, especially the Muslims, or even the non Muslim, understand, okay, you know, this is a package. If you, if you take it, you have to take the whole thing, and

00:51:49--> 00:52:24

that's a very good point check. So, the first thing we could address is how it links to atheism, according to research. And this is a British context, but I think it can apply to the Western context, in general, is that really atheism or being non religious? Wasn't because they had a philosophical argument against God, they didn't really I mean, the arguments are weak. It's like a spider's web because it's brushed away. It's because of the rise of liberalism. Actually, there is a correlation according to some academics between the rise of liberalism, and

00:52:25--> 00:52:49

at atheism, or in this context, being non religious, because the new new atheists who think they have an argument are always on their minority like 5% in Britain, right? Although they Some argue there's around 50% of non religious people, but the new atheist with the ideological stance, very small, but the irreligious people that are religious, because liberalism has replaced religion.

00:52:50--> 00:53:28

So the first thing is liberalism has replaced religion, and therefore you're going to, you're entering in a society that's going to be a society full of people that don't have any true meaningful purpose in their life. Because like, what is this all for? You know, if if we adopt just by virtue of the Western context, we adopt philosophical naturalism, everything is as physical processes, then what ultimate value do we have? What kind of what ultimate purpose do we have? If everything is blind code, non conscious physical processes, nothing's directing these physical things in any way. And these things are not aware of themselves. They're cold and unconscious, then

00:53:28--> 00:53:46

how can we even justify the notion of human rights, even if it's just electrons whizzing around? Even Jeremy Bentham, the British philosopher, I believe he said, believing in human rights, according to this view is nonsense on stilts. Yeah. So that's one effect in terms of the way we see ourselves and others, right.

00:53:48--> 00:54:29

And that could lead to a naturalistic need to nihilism, and nihilism is problematic because it says, everything is meaningless, and I don't care. And nothing has any kind of value. And there is no right and wrong. And and exactly, if you leave people to themselves, this is exactly what's going to happen, right? So it can lead to to nihilism. And some argue that atheism necessarily leads to nihilism. And unfortunately, seeing a lot of our youth Muslim and non Muslim catapulting themselves into this new holistic understanding of the world that there is no meaning is meaningless. There's no right and wrong, right. And even there is no truth. It's like a Post truth type of culture from

00:54:29--> 00:55:00

that perspective. So that's a very, very dangerous and damaging thing for our society. Also, if you individualize the human being that, you know, they they take themselves on suffering to that degree, and there is no other kind of social obligations and attachments. Then, what about marriage? What about preserving the family structure? What about these things, and we see over time and it's affected everybody, even Muslims. Adultery is almost

00:55:00--> 00:55:38

I don't know if it's on the rise, but it's huge. There was many years ago, I saw some statistic. I don't know if it's true or not, but you guys could check out for yourselves 70% of people have infidelity. For example. Why is that the case? Well, because one can argue most thing is only because of liberalism. But there is a correlation here, that if you create a society that is all about me, and I'm and I'm suffering, I could do whatever I want and forget, forget obligations and attachments to society, then you're going to stop us taking your How are your desires, as your driving force, right? So this can lead to social

00:55:40--> 00:55:58

fragmentation. Now, what's interesting, there was a children's society report in England, in the UK, I think was published in 2004. I believe I'm not too sure, but it was a few years ago. They said there's an increased social fragmentation and decay in American and British

00:55:59--> 00:56:06

families, I think, especially British families. And you know what they blamed, they blamed excessive individualism.

00:56:08--> 00:56:49

The children society report, divorce, families not being together too much. And they blamed excessive individualism. And you could even see this with a basic contrast between west and east. In the West, this individualistic type of culture in the east is a little bit more communitarian. So even when when I went to Japan, for example, the way they define themselves, is by service to the family or to the community. It's more communitarian. But in the West January, I know these are generalities, but generally speaking, they define themselves, not by service to something outside of yourself, but how you satisfy yourself because you are sovereign.

00:56:50--> 00:57:10

Now, one would argue there's pros and cons on both sides. And the beautiful thing about Islam is the beautiful balance, right, and you understand the human being as the human being is. But this understanding of the effects of individualism, you could see it just by traveling the world, because there are some societies that are still very communitarian. Meaning that they don't just define the human being,

00:57:11--> 00:57:48

by you know, as this kind of suffering thing, that it takes primacy, but what's important is that you identify yourself by your social obligations and attachments as well. And you can see this in the east, in many countries, even Japan, they have it, obviously, that's, that's changing as well. But there are other countries that have it too. And that's where you have a lot of people traveling from the west, and they go to like, the Middle East sometimes. And don't get me wrong. I'm not glorifying the Middle East, it's got its own problems as well. Right. But you know, that like, wow, you know, sense of family, you know, sense of family, with their ex pats, non Muslim, I believe they

00:57:48--> 00:58:20

go to Turkey, like, we love it here, because this kind of communitarian philosophy and understanding is still part of the culture, you know, I think there was an American parent, no American teacher, she went to Egypt to teach, she's like, Oh, my God, I can hug the children, I could really express love, and really, you know, because they don't have these kind of crazy thing that's going on in the West, sometimes from that perspective. So, you know, there are many effects as many effects and one would argue is because, as well of, you know, an individualistic philosophy.

00:58:22--> 00:58:30

And it leads to social fragmentation and decay. I'm not saying it's the only reason but it's definitely a contributing factor.

00:58:32--> 00:58:46

It was, it's been a few years now. But I collected a whole bunch of statistics in liberal societies concerning the effects of individualism, many effective things like marriage, family, morality, and all of these things. So,

00:58:47--> 00:59:26

you know, individualism is a poison from that perspective, and we need to rebalance the human being. And you know, when you look into Islam, when you look into the Islamic tradition, there's a beautiful balance between the individual society, society and individual. And and the reason is beautiful, because it's come from the beautiful Allah subhanho wa Taala. You know, it's come from the one who knows everything who knows us better than we know, our own selves. And what we need to do is really be humble and not, you know, be arrogant because individualism does create a bit of arrogance as well. And that's why, you know, atheists who have this liberal mindset, sometimes

00:59:26--> 00:59:37

they're not atheist, because they have an argument. They don't have an argument. They just don't want a monster in their life. Because if you were to ask them, you know, if God did exist, would you worship him like no,

00:59:38--> 00:59:58

you know, as the late Christopher Hitchens, what did he say? He said, he said, I'm not an atheist. I'm an anti theist, because if he existed, I would still reject Him because you'd be like living under dictatorship like North Korea, and that says a lot about himself that he wants to be suffering. He wants to be master by law teaches you allies, your master

01:00:00--> 01:00:42

And you've been your own monster, you don't even know what's good for you. You don't even know what's good for you, right? A lot. Oh, he's a rock man. He's a dude. He is the master for the loving, he has more affection for you than your own mother. In actual fact, even think about the concept of Allah's love. You know, you think a mother's love is one of the greatest loves in this world. Allah love transcends that. And it's more perfect than that. Because when a mother loves, she needs to love it completes her. But Allah does not require completion. Allah is Allah and he is awesome. And he is independent, he's free, yet he loves. So imagine how pure His love is upon Allah.

01:00:43--> 01:00:44

So Allah,

01:00:46--> 01:00:47

Allah, Allah, Allah

01:00:50--> 01:01:23

does Allah subhanaw taala know who he has created. And he's in the end, he knows us more than we know ourselves. And the problem of CNN, again, and I'm just reiterating here is that many of us, we think that we know what's good for ourselves, but the majority of us we just don't, you know, and I like to give this example, it's actually happened to me, you know, one time I had my car had a problem with it, I took it to 10 mechanics for them to fix it, and they weren't able to fix it. At the end of the day, I took it to the dealer, and they fixed it in five minutes. Why? Because

01:01:25--> 01:01:27

they know what's inside, you know?

01:01:28--> 01:01:54

He could he could, he could try 10 isms. And if one of them is going to point you to a different direction, are you going to be lost. But the issue here the f1 my or for our for our brothers and sisters, for the rest of humanity. You know, the issue here is the following. We are living here for a limited period of time. We're only here for 70 or 80 years by Max and with Corona God knows.

01:01:56--> 01:02:20

So this unit is that is that we don't have all the time in the world for us to experience you know, if you find a truth followed analysis on a data guide all of us and i think i think i don't want to I want to talk with brother Hamza for hours we have the chance to but I know he's busy. And I wanted to invite myself over again, most of that data. But then I I really really

01:02:21--> 01:02:30

appreciate the fact that he came to came to us and he shared with his beautiful Luxor with us. Like Alicia again and Alex had that except from you. And again,

01:02:32--> 01:02:47

at the end of this be proud of who you are. Allah subhanho wa Taala You are a servant, the feminine you're not a sentiment of anything else. And that's in itself the biggest number in the world. They're gonna love him some 100 100 Mr. photocurable Nicholas in equals 11 envelopes on how to draw some capital letters