Live Q&A on MA-LLM Islamic Law at SOAS, with , Prof. Mashood Baderin & Mufti Afnan

Fatima Barkatulla


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Okay, this smilla hamdu Lillah wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah dear brothers and sisters salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. I hope you can all hear me fine.

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This is your sister Fatima Baraka Tila. And this live session is a live session that actually quite a lot of brothers and sisters asked me to do.

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And that's because they've been asking me questions about studying an MA masters or an LLM at TSO s, which is the School of Oriental and African Studies, which is part of the University of London

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in Islamic law, and so many brothers and sisters kept asking me questions about it, and, you know, comparing it to Islamic Studies, for example, whether it's the right thing for them, etc, etc, that I thought it would be really useful to do a video where I answered all those questions in one go. And if you have any questions, please also do post them.

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In sha Allah, I'll introduce you to myself, and my own background in terms of Islamic Studies, and in terms of studying so as and then hopefully, two guests will be joining me this evening. One of them is hopefully Mufti of none of none from Pakistan, who he's actually a, he was a student, and so as this year as well, oops, my camera is about to collapse.

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So just give me one moment, please.

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So I hope you can see me there. No, sorry, I had a bit of a technical issue with my camera. This is my first time doing a live stream. So do bear with me. So I have the villa. As I said, this session is going to be all about the MA stroke, LLM that's so as University of London, and I think with the f9 is here. So controller, I'll just bring him in, and then we can start discussing the course just going through some elements of the course so that if you're somebody who might be considering doing the course then inshallah you can

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make a more informed decision, I guess. Right. So just one moment.

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So I'm Woody.

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Can you hear me

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Hello, how are you?

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I'm fine.

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Fine, fun. I was just introducing our brothers and sisters to the reason why I was having this session today. And the reason for me is that a lot of brothers and sisters keep asking me about studying Islamic law at so ass, and

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especially brothers and sisters who are from

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an alumier black background right people whose

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Study, like classical Islamic Studies, sometimes they have a lot of questions like, Is it really going to be beneficial for me to study something like this?

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So what I feel is both of us could inshallah introduce people to, to the course and let them know from, I guess from our different perspectives, how we found it, what the benefits we found were.

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So I'm just gonna go first, if that's okay, I'm just going to tell everybody that. So I've been doing the course part time.

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So you do have the option of doing it. over one year, two years or three years.

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I've been doing it over three years, I took the maximum time so that I could balance it with my family life, I guess, and other projects.

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And before that, I had I had studied in Egypt, I've completed my GCSEs. And a levels, as usual, studied in Egypt, and then completed an Ireland mere degree here in the UK at Bryan college. And another Alinea set certification with Sheikh Mohammed Akram nadwi.

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And, you know, whenever there was shoe coming into town, or whenever I could go and visit them, I would go and study with them. So I guess in that sense,

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I didn't have a official degree from a university or like a traditional

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degree from a Western University. But Alhamdulillah I applied to so I got a place

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in the masters and that's becoming quite normal nowadays, you know, as long as you have studied at a reputable institution, and it's to degree level,

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if you're a mature student, and I think even if you don't have that background, they will consider you, you know, they will consider you because they understand that you know, as a mature student, you will have all the capabilities and experiences and they take all of that into account.

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So I'm going to ask you multiethnic, like, what was your study background before you came to? So as and

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what mode of study did you decide to do?

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First of all, thank you for taking the initiative man inviting me as well. So very good opportunity, not for now, just for for future students, anyone who else

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interested in this course? Very good. Mashallah. Secondly, my background. I graduated from Armenia in 2005, from Durham Karachi. My study seven years were from German to Russia, where I am teaching for the last 14 years in my hustles in terms of t and then within 14 years in different fields, also, Hadith

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and Islamic finance in Islamic law. So I did my law degree, I graduated and 2015. And that was from Karachi. So good, credible institution, SM law college, and then I did a postgraduate law from University of London distance learning. And that was in human rights law.

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And then some workshops and courses in Germany and in Geneva, international human rights Academy would help a lot of what I was doing, actually, apart from the traditional classical Islamic law, I was merging it with

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modern law and specifically human rights law.

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Well, I was advised to do a Western degree long ago by Dr. Mahmoud huazi. And then a rigorous academic and

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he was the Dean of Islamic University Islam, but back then is is not with us now. mela bless him. So this was the best course which suited me in or in a reputable

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western country. I think this is the only one in UK who's offering long slow employment. Do you know any other institution who's offering this course

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in UK? So yeah, so you know,

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he said we encourage you to study Why do you think he encouraged you to do this? You know, to go into like my Western institution, I guess and

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you know, study at this level what what did you think he

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encouraged encourage you to do that?

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Very nice question. I asked him this. And that's back. I think in 2008. When I graduated, I went to many all of mine.

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them. So he told me Look,

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the dominance of knowledge is with the West. And you and me cannot change it right now. The only way we could make a difference is that joining the band and then finding a middle way. So

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you should have a Western degree, you could you will have a global presence and agreeable acceptability. And then you could make your voice heard what you think, even if it's classical Islamic knowledge, or pure traditional?

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Well, that's interesting because I was encouraged. I was encouraged to do this class by my dad by my father, Mufti barkatullah. Yeah. And

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when I was trying to decide whether I should do Islamic Studies, or Islamic law, one of the things that you've got to realize brothers and sisters is that they're completely different, right? Because Islamic law is basically from the law department. Okay, so as and Islamic Studies is more of the, I think it's called the near and Middle East department. Right? And I would say it's more of a

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it's not a law, subject, right? It's more like Orientalism would have been back in the day.

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That's one thing. My dad, the reason why my dad encouraged me to do Islamic law as opposed to Islamic Studies. He said to me, look, Fatima for the last years, what you've been studying in terms of Islam, and you know, ferric, and Hadeeth, and all of the subjects that you study in atomia.

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In a way, they are a historical look at Islamic law, you know, in many ways, they're a historical look at Islamic law, you're, you're basically looking into the past, right, to see what the Great Grandma said, what they laid down in the mother, for example, etc, etc. But now, when it comes to how Islamic law is being applied in the real world today, right?

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He said that this will give you a really good insight into like, I guess, how Islamic or Muslim majority countries function, how Islamic law is actually interacting in real life in those Muslim countries and internationally. Right.

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And I don't think I really appreciated that when I started, because when I started, I kept treating Islamic law as if I'm studying.

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Fit. Right. Yeah. Right. And

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I think that's why I would sometimes have arguments with the teachers, you know, because some of the statements they would make, um, I found them like, a bit surprising, or shocking, or even annoying.

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But then I realized that no, when they when they're talking about Islamic law, and this entire course, is really looking at it in a very legalistic way, you know,

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not in a spiritual way at all, not in any in the way that we consider Sharia, right? Like, when we think of Sharia, we think of a much more holistic thing, don't we?

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In fact, we think of Islam as a whole when we think of Sharia. But here, we're looking at how

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the Sharia is interacting with real legal systems, and what role it has to play in real legal systems in the world today. So that's basically how I,

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you know, entered into this class, I wanted to ask you,

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like, what was more questions for you?

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Which modules did you take? And can you give us like a little, I guess, snapshot of what you how you felt about those modules?

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Oh, actually, before you do that, I think I should make clear to everybody so I'm going to add something

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to the screen so that people can see clearly and easily

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what we're talking about here.

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Okay, can I

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hope everyone can see that. So this is basically the so as

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his MA in Islamic law page,

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on the CE o 's website, and I want I want to make clear to everybody that we're not officially from so as you know, when

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No, we're not here in an official capacity, like advertising. So as or even speaking for the University at all, you know, this is literally, us just talking about this course from our perspective, our experience, so that brothers and sisters who are considering it, especially practicing brothers and sisters, I think you know, who might have lots of questions like

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all brothers and sisters from alumier backgrounds, they could they can get an insight into how how we experienced it, right. So, as you can see, this is the page and here

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so Ma and Islamic law.

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There's an overview here, okay.

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The entry requirements, you can see

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it's quite straightforward, right. And this is the, the main convener, Professor Massoud bloodrayne. And hopefully, Professor Massoud Butler is going to join us tonight for a little while, if you look here at the structure.

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So I think the thing to point out here is that

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there are 60 credits for the dissertation, right? So the dissertation that you do in Islamic law, will it take 60 credits, and then you can actually be quite flexible, in that you choose, I believe, 60 credits from this list, okay, here of modules. So they're like your core. And then you can choose, I believe, 60, or even just 30 from here.

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And then there are some options here, you can see postgraduate open options. And so every year, there's a list of open options, sometimes from other departments, that you can actually take. So for example, if you did want to take some elements of the near and Middle East,

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classes, so that's from Islamic Studies, for example, you can see this huge list, you know, you could take Arabic, for example, you could take, I don't know, Persian, if you're interested, or Islamic, I did Islamic legal texts in Arabic, for example.

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So in that sense, is quite flexible, right?

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Just wanted to point that out. And so if you do it over one year, you would be doing all of that, you'd be doing all of those modules, as well as your dissertation in one year. If you do it over two years, you can be quite flexible, you could maybe leave your dissertation till the second year, and do some modules in the first year, some in the second, if you did over three years, as I did, you could do all of your modules over the two years, and then just leave the dissertation for the final year, you know, so in that sense, you can make it quite flexible. And you can choose modules that appeal to you. Not necessarily only to do with Islamic law, they can be to do with law in general,

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different aspects, or they can be from another department, depending on which ones are available. So I just wanted to make that clear for everyone.

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So if not, which modules Did you take and what were your thoughts on those modules?

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Yeah, first of all, two channels. You took the Masters in Islamic law, and I took it from LLM. Right?

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Because I had a law degree. So that was from a lawyers perspective. But many models are different. Because a lot of brothers and sisters they asked me like, what's the difference between LLM and Ma? I believe content wise is the same, right? Yeah, there are different optional modules that the difference is that you can take different legal courses. Secondly, it adds to your legal degrees and thirdly, LLM from from from from UK or from an international universities equivalent to an mphil Master's in philosophy. You can go for a PhD or right after. Yeah.

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bromic law, number one, that's mandatory a second human rights in Islamic law, and third, Islamic law and global financial markets. The first two courses Islamic law is clamped on human rights were from Professor massage, whether it

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was from Professor Jonathan around black, and Professor Lin Welchman also joined in to teach two or three modules of family law. I guess.

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What I had the Zune was not what I got. I mean, I was, yeah, it was a very insightful surprise to me what I learned, and a very good experience, really. I mean, I consulted many strong Catholics. They said, well, you allow them, you're 50 you're practicing football for the last 14 years, what have you got to know about this, this and that, and your lawyer. But you know, this course opened new relevance for me. For example, 90, you mentioned the pragmatic approach, law in practice law in action. How's it? And secondly, we, all of us who have coming from the Alinea background, we are setting and apart from the state law and giving what was not done after we have a very idealistic

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approach of doing Sharia that this is ideal. And this this should be ameerul momineen. And there should be a honey found that should be spamming code. And this and that, that doesn't happen is the law is the merger of Western law. The secular codify codified law with Islamic law. And

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another good thing was we studied the history, the fall of the classical Islamic law mode and the rise of fortification, and that there was a rigorous

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opposition from the traditional Ottomans Ottoman time, but then they had to because the wheel goes on and you cannot stop.

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There was adaptability and flexibility of Islamic law towards changing times, which I quite appreciate it. I mean, although Me and you, I think we were the most critical of these

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articles. But at the end of the day, this was a great experience. This was the good things about that.

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I think you were asking, should we recommend this course to alumier graduates are not? I will say, I would only recommend this to Columbia graduate, not anyone else. Because if

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you don't have a good background in classical and traditional film, with the normal or on an order was so nice, also an effect

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into I mean, misguided, really, because there was things there, there are many things which

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which I think I consider it could have been better. For example, we studied a criticism on solar. Okay, the modernist approach that there needs to be a new sort of fair, and we studied those scholars, but we didn't study the real assault on

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who we are criticizing. So how can you criticize a science that has been built a 1200 years without studying this, and that was main thing, because fear is built on sort of

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a Secondly, we study the modernist views in many, many, especially in family law, some of those scholars have no credibility in the mainstream Islamic scholarships. So I, I think there was a slight misbalance in some of those courses, somewhere, I mean, we can agree to disagree.

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Thirdly, the aspect of human rights were very interesting. I will suggest an all the mass studying, especially specializing in film anywhere in the world during the course. So should mandate Riyadh, human rights law, because this is the dominant I think, I think you've cut out I think we all cut out from

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Oh, sorry. Can you hear me now?

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I think I should come again.

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connected. Let me come again, please.

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Okay, brothers and sisters. I think we've lost with the f9 for a little while. There, but I'm just going to continue answering some of the questions that you guys have been sending. Okay, I've gotten off the phone back. Some of the, if you can just repeat some of the points that you were making.

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Yeah, so where did that get out?

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I think you were talking about whether you recommend it to to other students and you said

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you would you would only recommend it to people who've already studied Islam Islamic Studies. Yeah.

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Yeah, that was a point because because

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So, so, yes, sorry for the I don't know why the connection dropped. So, I was saying that I would recommend only to those Muslims, especially those who have already studied with

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classical fear with traditional earlier Ma.

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degree or they have taken a one year two year short course on that.

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For reasons because we are studying here Islamic law, Islamic law, human rights, different approaches towards Islam. There the ultra conservative approaches, the middle rotors and modern approach. Well, sometime I felt like the modernist scholars, I have been given a special privilege, which they don't actually have sometimes. Sorry. Sometimes you felt like

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oh, my God, again.

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You say the modern?

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I'm not clear now.

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Unfortunately, maybe it's maybe the problem is my end? No, but

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Okay, can you hear me now?

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If I continue out, try joining again from another connection. I don't know. What's the problem?

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Yeah, let's do our best in sha Allah.

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came with your plan will, will continue inshallah we'll do our best in sha Allah.

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To continue.

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Yeah, so you were saying about

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people from an Islamic Studies background? Sorry, I missed

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what you were saying.

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I'm really sorry about the connection. I don't know. What was the problem? It could be my end, believe it or not? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So nice. Because Islamic law is, I think, is from the fifth perspective, this is an advanced subject. Okay. You should first know the basics of fifth solar effects, and then how it's being applied in the world now. And because, you know, ideally, none of the countries is following any madhhab strictly, you're all picking and choosing from different mother hips. And also, there's a push from the international human rights law, because

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all of the Islamic countries have signed most of the Islamic human rights treaties, please. Yeah. Yeah. So they're obliged to follow the Islamic law, but many Islamic countries have already signed with reservations that we won't accept these or those articles or which are not inconsistent with Islamic law. So now, there's a it gets quite complex because there are scholars who are very orthodox, there are scholars who are middle loaders, who want to merge, have a pragmatic approach to walk with the world. And yes, Sharia is the same

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Time. And then there are modern scholars who want Sharia to adapt to everything, what the Western world of Western was saying.

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And that's not not so clear that quite gray areas, even I would say, even beyond them, there are secularists, and, you know, liberal, very liberal scholars, or, you know, when we say scholars, we mean, like academics as well, right academics.

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And I agree with you, actually, what I would say is, if you're, if you think this class is going to bring you spirituality, then it's not, you know, it's not, it's not there to make you spiritually aware of Islam and that kind of thing, you know,

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but if you think so. So, even if you haven't studied Islam, like traditionally with scholars, okay. I would say you could do it, as long as you do. alongside it, study Sharia with scholars, I feel like yeah, you know, because there might be some students, some brothers, sisters, who they're at that stage of life where they want to pursue a masters, and they want to do this. So I would say, as long as you're not thinking of this as your source of Islamic knowledge that you're going to practice, you know,

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and instead of that, look at it more as a

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as a study, you know, a study of the real, the reality, the real kind of landscape of Islamic law in the world. I think you could be fine, because I think some You're right, like some people in our class, I felt like some of them had not had any Islamic background.

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And I was a bit worried about them, because

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I think, you know, it doesn't really

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allow you to understand the Islamic worldview, right? Like as a holistic

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worldview. It's very technical in that sounds right? It's very technical, it's very. Um, so if you don't have a background in it, you're not really going to understand the spirituality behind

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any Islamic law. Right. So, yeah, I would agree with that. So if I would say, if people are going to take it, you should definitely either have studied traditionally with scholars with Aloma or you should be doing it alongside, you know, because there are certain things in the class that you might hear that could confuse you, you know, if you don't, if you don't have a good Islamic grounding in your fundamentals, it could be confusing. It could be

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you could get the misunderstanding from it as well, I think. Yeah, I think that might be on the same page, either prior study of Islamic, classical Sharia or you're studying along with, you know, academically talking professionally, this is also not correct. Because masters is Advanced Studies. I mean, if you're new masters feel you should have a prior bachelor's, great knowledge of that field, you know, so there are many students who are doing a master's in Islamic law, and they didn't have any prior knowledge of Islam and Islamic law specifically.

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Yeah, one thing I just want to point out before we allow Professor Massoud on, I can see that he's here.

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I just want to point out to people that if you don't have a if you don't have a background in law, okay, the good thing about the

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classes, I hope you can see the screen, that there's actually a course that you end up you do before. So for example, myself I did, I'm doing the MA, which means that I don't have a previous law degree or I don't, I'm not a qualified lawyer. Whereas Mufti f9, for example is, so he did the LLM. For me doing the MA. We did like this two week course, which is called preliminary law, legal reasoning and legal methods, which was really good. I must say it was a very good introduction to

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the legal system, international law, and all of the kind of basic things that you need to kind of get before you start any kind of course on law, so I actually really appreciated that preliminary course. I'm going to

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let professor in in sha Allah, if I can't figure out how to do it.

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Salaam Alaikum. Professor Massoud

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Today we're going to learn your workout. Can you hear me? Yes, we can.

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Nice. Nice. Nice to see you, Professor, thank you so much for inviting me.

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We, we made it, we made it clear to everybody who's on this live stream. And like people who might watch it later, that when we like myself and mostly offline, we're not officially from class or anything like that, you know, we're just discussing this course. Because a lot of brothers and sisters, they contacted us and, you know, sometimes they ask us, like, should I take Islamic law? Should I take Islamic studies?

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You know, which, which is the better option for me. They ask questions like,

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is studying Islamic law, so is going to confuse me, right? Is it going to be very orientalist in its approach, for example, you know, I'm just sharing with you the types of questions that we get. And so we thought, you know, let's, let's in a really balanced and fair way, just give people our experience and our take. So, Professor, we're really pleased that you're here with us. And we'd love for you to

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introduce yourself, first of all, and just like give everybody a bit of a idea of your own background, because I believe that apart from being a very accomplished academic, and you know, having so many Mashallah books that you've authored, etc. I think even before that, you

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you did have a classical Islamic Studies background, right? Yep. That's right. I mean, thank you very much. I mean, I do

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explain to students, but it's usually very good for students to appreciate the background of the lecture. So professors, so normally I do, I mean, tell students this, the first Plus, I mean, honestly, myself, and as all Muslims, my Islamic education started with, you know,

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less learning the Quran, and other Islamic sciences, traditionally, from the mosque on the floor or from the additional schools, then, I mean, I was doing my Western education along that. But after that, I did also, I mean, after my secondary school, I did also and what is normally called the Islamia, that isn't in the Islamic schools, the formal Islamic school that I attended in Nigeria, is called doubt doubt in Islamic world.

00:37:44--> 00:38:00

I mean, it's purely, I mean, an Islamic school where, I mean, you learn about Islam, you learn about all the sciences. I mean, Sierra, I mean, all those sciences. And it's, it's, I mean, been in Nigeria, it's classically,

00:38:01--> 00:38:28

we concentrated on the Maliki school. And I mean, we did learn other aspects as well. Then when I feel it from my knees only I then went to do Arabic and Islamic Studies in the university, one of the universities in the north in Nigeria, purely Islamic Studies. And after that, I then also went to another university in northern Nigeria, to do a double major in

00:38:30--> 00:39:00

common law, because Nigeria is a pluralist legal system in common law and Sharia, which is I mean, and after that, I qualified as a lawyer, I went to the law school qualified as a lawyer in Nigeria. And then I came to the UK in the 1990s, to be a master's in public international law at the University of Nottingham. And I then went on to do my PhD in comparative law rights, Islamic law and international human rights law

00:39:01--> 00:39:08

to Nottingham. And I mean, since then, I have been teaching I taught in Nottingham I taught in

00:39:10--> 00:39:19

University of the West of England, Southampton University of Brunel, before I came to swats in 2007. So I've been teaching for about 14 years now.

00:39:21--> 00:39:54

Yes, so Professor bodhran is the convener of the Islamic law, ma and LLM. And I believe you teach the Islamic law class and the human rights and Islamic law class, correct? Yes. That's good. Yeah. And so professor, like for people from a law background? What would you say? You hope they will get from from this class? And what would you say people from a non law background would get from this class?

00:39:55--> 00:40:00

Well, I mean, it's not it depends on what one wants to do.

00:40:00--> 00:40:08

Islamic law is very relevant. I mean, these days, both domestically and internationally, if a person has a law background, I mean,

00:40:09--> 00:40:11

the way we teach Islamic law in the law school,

00:40:13--> 00:40:40

also, perhaps I mean, because law is law, and Islamic law is applied, we have civil law, we have Islamic law. I mean, we have common law, a lot of the time, you'll find it, you'll remember in the class, I do try as much as possible to sort of do comparatives with the common law system on many issues. So if a person has a law background, perhaps I mean, that will be easier for them to I mean,

00:40:41--> 00:41:13

relate to when we give examples, because they see my perspective, I used to say in class, there are so many similarities. You know, a lot of the time we tend to see that, well, it's not close, very different from common law. And from there are many similarities, as I do say, and many of the principles they talk about, for example, many of the principles of color in class, they were to say, principle of necessity, for example, the ruler, you know, I mean, equity, for example, and so on and so forth. So you'll be able to know somebody who does not have a law background, we do have

00:41:16--> 00:42:00

What do you call it? precessional. For those who do not have a law background, who want to do this course, I mean, because we do it with teaches us law. It's not the Islamic law course, at Suez. It's not a doctrinal course, it is not to teach about religion. It's I mean, it's, it's not a teaching about religion, although Islamic law is based on religious norms. But you want to look at it from a jurisprudential point of view. So we critique it, I mean, we look and engage with it. I mean, we try as much as possible. I mean, to see the differences, when the juries default on a particular view, what were they thinking? I mean, what was in there, we try to poke into that to see what they were

00:42:00--> 00:42:02

thinking, what they read,

00:42:03--> 00:42:05

and things. I mean, so

00:42:06--> 00:42:19

I think if a person wants to practice, for example, if they want to, because even in the UK Today, many of the law firms in the city, they want people who are qualified to understand Islamic law to be part of it.

00:42:20--> 00:42:52

Oh, yes. Many of them, many of them writers a lot of the time asking whether I mean, asking if students will be interested. Now, for example, Islamic law, finance, for example, is very popular. Now. Family Law, there are so many, I mean, elements of Family Law, people, I mean, contact law firms, and they want people who are experienced in Islamic law. I mean, sometimes we have people only come to be Islamic law associates, students, they just take one not only Islamic law course, we have lawyers in town, who come to now for a person who is not a lawyer,

00:42:54--> 00:43:00

a person who is not a lawyer who just wants I mean to learn doctrine, they might feel a little bit challenged, they might be shocked, actually

00:43:02--> 00:43:27

mean in the clouds. Because I mean, a lot of the I mean, I do say if you remember vividly, that I mean, the jurist and everyone will tend to I mean, the presumption is that the jurist must do their jurisprudence, on the line by taqwa, you know, by God consciousness. You know, but the truth is, the jurist I mean, a human as well,

00:43:29--> 00:44:12

too. And only God can judge a person's taqwa. So it's not a doctrine, doctrinal class, whereby we say, Well, God has spoken, you cannot interrogate this, you can? No, we just want to see if law affects our lives. That's just the truth. It restricts us from doing certain things. And if Lord restricted from doing certain things, we want to know why why does it restrict us from doing those things? You know, so that's the nature. I mean, and I am able to say this, because I did Islamic Studies before I came into the Islamic law. So I know the difference between the two now in Islamic Studies and Islamic Studies class, do want to ask too many questions. I mean, you don't want to, I

00:44:12--> 00:44:22

mean, send me you know, I find that we're going to spoken. You mean, you mean, classical, classical Islamic studies? Not, not, not, not Islamic studies that so ask, right. You mean? Well, I mean,

00:44:25--> 00:44:28

depends on you. I mean, who is teaching it? I mean, so as

00:44:29--> 00:44:31

you see, as you rightly said,

00:44:32--> 00:44:59

we look at everything from a critical point of I'm academics do not anyway, Academy at the end of the day, is an academic institution. I do tell my even PhD students. Look, I do tell my students because a lot of the time when you see it's not about challenging anybody's faith, but at the end of the day, by doing that actually can strengthen your faith, but this is my own. Yes, because I mean, by my own training, I think I mean, it made me Make me a lot more conscious and in relation to

00:45:00--> 00:45:39

Here, actually, this rule, you know, can be also rationalized and it strengthens my I have had PhD students, I have students who have come, the PA students on the law called the who have come to really, when we are talking about each year, for example, and we blow it up and things like that. One lady came to tell me that Well, I mean, Hamada is really wanting her at home, because he's beginning to argue with the mother. Now, she's been warned that she should not she should be aware of her faith. Now, I used to tell you that that look interrogating these things cannot I mean, except your faith is weak. It cannot affect your faith. That's just the truth. I mean, that's my own

00:45:39--> 00:45:49

perception. It cannot I don't think it can affect your faith. It just raises questions about certain things, and then you try to look into them. And

00:45:50--> 00:46:22

perhaps I mean, there are some that can be justified rationally. There are some that may not. And then yes, I mean, every every leader has his dogma. Even Western law has certain dogmas certain rules, we sometimes may not make sense. I mean, this gives the rule. I mean, and you follow you follow it, for example, in land law. I mean, we're talking about it the other day in western law, there are certain rules. That's, I mean, people are arguing that should be removed, because they don't make sense any longer. Because I mean, that's law. In its in its in the way it operates.

00:46:23--> 00:47:07

Yeah, thank you. Just Thank you, professor for that, for inviting me. You're the whole scan, I can ask questions, Professor of cool. Yes, please. Professor, that's also practical question. I mean, you talked about people who have a law background, not. What about the people who are all women who are minorities, I mean, they're practicing fatwa institution. And we know the difference between fatwa is not non binding a personal opinion and a legal opinion is Muslim. It's binding. So what benefit Can I move to practice some of the hat from studying Islamic law, especially Islamic law? It at sauce? Yes. I mean, especially, I mean, you, you are in a better position to be able to answer

00:47:07--> 00:47:40

that. I mean, from lns point of view, from this perspective, MFT can really benefit because you see, if ta itself, one important aspect of it is I mean, one has to take into consideration the circumstances, you know, relation to given the fatwa. And sometimes it's very, very good to really Rob minds. Whereby, I mean, this year, we have people joining us from different parts of the world. You know, for example, on issues which a person might be thinking of, maybe one is confronted with a question when Pakistan are confronted with,

00:47:42--> 00:48:09

with a question which you need to give fatwa on. Now joining the class here in London, I mean, you could receive some perspective that might be completely from Pakistan, which you might consider nuku use actually that to buttress your foot to adapt, for example, if it were to be in London, based on this circumstances, my thought might have been different. Yeah, you know, so, I mean, it gives room to be able to see the different perspectives, by which I mean,

00:48:11--> 00:48:51

one uses circumstances in order to influence one spot to so movies can really benefit from Voodoo. For example, you know, in the first time, we cover the application of Islamic law of Islamic law in practice, I will do cover al Qaeda weightlifter and although simulation to so you are in the best position to be able to not because I knew I moved it, and I mean, perhaps I mean, and that will help us as well to know I mean, that type of benefit if you could say a few things about me perhaps maybe what benefit Did you see or pass maybe it didn't really help in relation to your responsibilities as a movie?

00:48:52--> 00:49:42

Yeah, Professor I told many things in the beginning before where you came at this specific thing I would just agree 100% with you that you know, the fatwa is adaptable to earth and Laura and changing times so how would you know the changing times and different perspectives? For example, there are many thing we think that these are Katya rabbit. Yes, I mean, the 100%. But actually, there's not an agreement on that many parts of stomach world like in Nigeria and Morocco in Malaysia, the practice is different. So you know that this masala is not Qatari, this is macduffie. This is much that fee, and there's mudgil for a different opinion. So I'm really quite, I mean, the approach with this

00:49:42--> 00:49:49

course was it made me quite flexible and adaptable and a new global perspective, I would say. Yeah, definitely.

00:49:50--> 00:49:59

Yeah, I think for me, it made me It stopped me from being naive, I think because, as I was mentioning to prefer to mafia

00:50:00--> 00:50:51

And that, you know, when you study in a confessional institution, and you study Islam classically, in a way, you're studying Islamic laws, history, right? You know, you're not really aware of how it's playing out in the world today. Right. And so I think it really gave us a crash course I think in like, in the way law works and Islamic law in particular in the world. And I think, especially with human rights and Islamic law, that was very eye opening, because, as we mentioned earlier, so many Muslim countries have signed up to human rights treaties, and in many ways Muslims benefit from those treaties, right. So I think, and for me, I think the

00:50:52--> 00:51:13

legal theory aspect was very eye opening as well. Just being able to study and see what the different approaches are that scholars are grappling with, you know, because at the end of the day, these are real problems that they're having to grapple with and find solutions for, you know, in, in our times, and I think,

00:51:14--> 00:51:25

if you don't, if you're not aware of the various issues and the the way the system works, I think you can have a very black and white kind of approach. Right.

00:51:27--> 00:52:03

That's right. I think that's what's important. And I think I mean, unless we I mean, Islamic legal theory aspect of it is usually very, very interesting. Sometimes people other background at all, from the beginning, they find it challenging. It's very abstract, but then gradually, they build on into it. And I'm happy for you saying this. I mean, it reflected actually, um, if you remember vividly, I mean, you wrote a very, I mean, excellent essay, in that I mean, perspective, which I believe I mean, I mean, I really challenge you to really, yeah. And then I mean,

00:52:05--> 00:52:07

I mean, you didn't move you from

00:52:08--> 00:52:14

you understand of the classified cup as button perspective. That's what pushed you to really, I mean,

00:52:16--> 00:52:53

yes. Which was really very, very good. You know, and it's in the world, the reality, the world in which we live in. And movie have not also did mention that, that, you know, he, as he said that he and that's the world in which we live in, in relation to the fact that the way law works, you know, we just have to reflect. And because if Islam, Islamic law, particularly, must be the law that applies for all times, then we have to be able to think about it in a way that resolves the contemporary challenges that faces souls. I mean, and that's what we try to do, sometimes.

00:52:54--> 00:52:57

Get it fully, right. But sometimes, I mean, we do.

00:52:58--> 00:53:07

I want to show show brothers and sisters, this is Professor Massoud book, oh, it's, I've got a copy of it. So this is one of his books is

00:53:08--> 00:53:15

actually if you get a copy of this book from Amazon, Islamic law, a very short introduction, it's like Oxford University Press.

00:53:16--> 00:53:46

This kind of gives you a really good overview of what we're going to cover in Islamic law class, right, like, including the Human Rights class and, and finance as well. So yeah, I think if you really want like a good overview, if you get a copy of this book, you'll basically understand the content of the but professor, is there anything that you want students to know, like, for the for the year coming? Like is, have there been any changes? I noticed that

00:53:48--> 00:53:59

Islamic law in global financial markets wasn't mentioned on the website is, is it not? Yeah, we, I mean, it's not very sure whether I was going to run it. I mean, because sometimes, you know,

00:54:00--> 00:54:08

lecturer, sometimes I'm on sabbatical. And sometimes, when, by the end of the talk to me to become very clear, which models

00:54:09--> 00:54:13

much as you rightly mentioned, I mean, the

00:54:14--> 00:54:59

the LLM both the LLM and ma requested us to do a total of 180 credits. Yes, 180 credits, that means one Grant 20 credits of thought models, and then 60 credits for the dissertation. Now, we have I mean, five main Islamic law models when they are running, that is the main Islamic law. Then we have human rights and Islamic law. Then we have Islamic law and global financial markets. As you mentioned, we have what you call the last minute, gender law and society in the Middle East and North Africa. So all this relates to element different elements of Islamic law. Now, these are what they are they all these are in the a list.

00:55:00--> 00:55:20

Students who wants to do either ma or LLM in Islamic law must do at least two of those that is, I mean 60 credits, you know, coming to from those and then the remaining 60 credits, go take them from, we have open modules, you can actually even take courses from the Islamic Studies Department lacquer and like are these

00:55:21--> 00:55:32

to make them up, and then you write a density. So, you have to do for full models, you know, for for model truck models, that is starting each model full models are 30 credits.

00:55:33--> 00:55:46

Or you could do if you take 15 credit models, then you are doing more than four. So, then after that you do a dissertation of 60 credits, so, it depends on a person's interest. But normally, if you want to do

00:55:48--> 00:56:30

a program LLM in Islamic law, I mean Islamic law, you have to do the Islamic law module, which we are talking about now. And then you can do other models to meet up your required candidates. Thank you, professor. And, Professor, is there any advice that you you could give to like? What kind of mindset would you like students to come to this class with, especially, if they are from a practicing Muslim background? I'm mentioning this because you might have noticed that even some of us when we initially in the class, you know, some of the ideas, some of the kind of, you know, because if you're from a confessional Islamic Studies background, you've been to an Islamic

00:56:30--> 00:56:44

institution, then you're not really encouraged to question much, you know, like, in a way you're absorbing, right, you're absorbing, you're taking in and you're, you might be aware of some differences of opinion. But

00:56:45--> 00:56:59

obviously, you're not interrogating, like, you know, aspects of Islamic law in the in the same kind of way. So sometimes, it can be a little bit of a surprise, I would say to students, right, like, if they're not used to that.

00:57:00--> 00:57:15

So do you have any, because you told us that you yourself? You know, initially, it was kind of maybe it might have been a bit challenging even for you, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. I agree. Totally. I mean, I agree totally that I mean,

00:57:16--> 00:57:22

even myself, when I went into the university, I mean, it was really

00:57:23--> 00:57:38

challenging, because you feel you find yourself, if you're not very careful, being very defensive. Yes, to many of the issues that are in. And so what I will, what I normally address pool is I mean, there's no harm

00:57:39--> 00:57:42

in feeling that way. But gradually, I mean,

00:57:43--> 00:57:45

once you have an open mind,

00:57:46--> 00:58:16

it's not about challenges once faith, once you have an open mind. And I mean, as time goes on, one will be able to it one thing that it teaches is, you know, it sort of teaches you to really create a balance in relation to perhaps, because many of the math materials that we read, and I mean, multi, if none raised one of those ones relation to the fact that maybe we use too many orientalist materials. And

00:58:18--> 00:58:21

I feel that

00:58:22--> 00:58:25

I don't see much harmonic in the sense that,

00:58:26--> 00:58:57

you know, many of the questions that they raise, I feel like they are valid questions. Yeah. Which perhaps, I mean, we need to respond to which Muslims, there are questions that I mean, normally, a Muslim may not raise a Muslim, classical person with a classical Islamic law background may not raise that. I mean, they take it for granted, that look, last spoken or spoken. I mean, so I mean, you can question this. And, you know,

00:58:58--> 00:59:18

but then, when those questions are raised by orientalist in their writings, it gives us opportunity to reflect over them, because these are things that we meet in the real world. Yeah, you know, I mean, people will challenge you will ask you, and if you have not dealt with, it makes you actually feel at home, and it gives you confidence,

00:59:19--> 00:59:57

to be able to then relate to you are not shocked. So for example, when you are starting to interacted with such material, if maybe you go to a winter conference, or maybe you are in a meeting, or you're confronted with it, you know, you're not very careful, you'll be taken off guard. Sometimes you can become very annoyed feeling that, well, you know, your religion has been challenged and things like that. So I think it's part of the training in the type of world in which we live, especially those of us who live in the West. You know, it's important that I mean, perhaps one gets used to that. So I will tell students who will be on it. I mean, they might be challenging,

00:59:57--> 01:00:00

but over time, they will be able to see

01:00:00--> 01:00:09

That? Well, it's for the good. And I mean, it teaches you to be able to deal with such questions when you meet them in real life.

01:00:10--> 01:00:29

Thank you, professor. I'm just looking at if anyone has any questions, they can just quickly type them in the chat. I've got one question here from one of our viewers that are seeking asylum on acorn, what happens on the America? Can you please touch on the areas of work you feel this qualification may lead to?

01:00:31--> 01:01:08

So a person with a ma or LLM in Islamic law, for example? How could that maybe benefit them in lines of work, I guess. Now, for example, if you're a lawyer, and you have an LLM in Islamic law, it opens I mean, it's an additional, it's an it's an, it's a double whammy for you. I mean, for example, in the UK, I, you know, I mentioned in class these days, because I've stopped really doing them, in the sense that I mean, it's it comes nearly all the time, and particularly in the UK, and in the West, generally, you find out that in the UK, for example, a lot of the time cases come to court whereby

01:01:10--> 01:01:54

issues admins of Islamic law and less need for experts opinion, I showed you some example of those I mean, when we're doing because, all the time, all the time, you find people I'm saying that Muslims who are from Somalia, I mean, poor people's, I mean, issues of marriages are diverse. So they want and it's good money, you know, and such, if you are a lawyer, you can be able to if you have studied stomache law, it's part of it. Now people there are many Muslims. In the UK, for example. I mean, in my own community, I help in that regard. Because I'm the resident, I'm also the resident Islamic, I'm in consult on the Muslim session of Nigeria Moscato control, as well as

01:01:55--> 01:02:01

many, many Muslims. I mean, even though they've lived in the West, you find and towards the end of their life,

01:02:02--> 01:02:17

they know they live in the UK, but these questions about their, about their estate, their wills, they want their wills, done in a way that satisfies Islamic law, and also that satisfies, you know, the UK law.

01:02:19--> 01:02:35

Whereby, you know, so if you are knowledgeable, then Islamic law and you are a lawyer, I mean, it helps you for you to be able to help in doing that you, you write the will in a way that conforms with both, and it will be applicable. I mean, in the UK, now for Islamic Studies.

01:02:36--> 01:02:43

Now, I mean, it depends, for Islamic Studies. People who

01:02:45--> 01:03:14

teach love, I generally do an MA and Islamic law, and you're not a lawyer. I mean, it increases your knowledge, people who teach, you can also do expert views in relation to the fact that you are qualified. I mean, you've done Islamic law. And perhaps, I mean, if one wants to actually also qualify as a lawyer after taking it, I know that for it to be applied as law, particularly in the UK. I mean, very soon, the next few years, also

01:03:15--> 01:03:58

an LLB degree will no longer be required for you to be a lawyer. You know, they are trying to remove that off. I mean, yes, take the bar exam. So these are solicitors exams, as long as you pass them, you become a solicitor, you know, and Islamic law can also be very, very useful in that industry. So there are various means by which one could use teaching one, then I'm in practicing law two, then three, you know, many, in IBC, you know, I have been I've had a hard time spell when the United Nations many international organizations want people who have expertise in Islamic law, as I say Islamic law become really very relevant not only domestically, but internationally. I mean,

01:03:58--> 01:04:17

unfortunately, you find out that I mean, many of the bad things that are happening in the world was humanitarian issues that need to be resolved. You find many of them in Muslim majority countries and the EU and international system, I've been able to see that where they need people who are actually qualified in order to use an insider's perspective in order to resolve those issues. So Islamic

01:04:18--> 01:04:25

Islamic law becomes really very handy. So if you want to I mean, it's, it's it's a very good area,

01:04:26--> 01:04:43

within the international organizations, system, international finance, for example, Islamic Finance, for example, is really very hot now everywhere. So there are a variety of areas by which both ma or LLM, one hopes to be able to

01:04:45--> 01:04:51

to equalize the knowledge and I guess also people could go even higher into doing a PhD,

01:04:52--> 01:04:59

professorial lecturing, etc. Right. There's one more question professor is there an option to study is

01:05:00--> 01:05:38

Islamic law at undergraduate level at so as somebody is asking, yes. Now, for example, many universities are doing it now. But I mean, traditionally, Islam you saw as used to be the only university that taught Islamic law in the UK in the 1940s. I because I mean, it's the only now up to today it is the only university within the University of London system is going to college within the west of London system. That is it. So people do come. So we do it at undergraduate and postgraduate level. So people, it's a very popular optional undergraduate course. So us people from

01:05:39--> 01:05:44

people from the University of London colleges, I mean, so it's available also for undergraduates.

01:05:46--> 01:06:13

And do they definitely, do they have to be part of the degree a degree or Can people come in and just do a module? Like, yeah, yes, they can think you can do a model, we call them sex, you don't call them associate students. If you look on the class website, there is I mean, passive not only for Islamic law, any of the models that we teach. So if you just want to do that single module, they charge you for just a single module. And you get to pay for it after you get a

01:06:15--> 01:06:15


01:06:16--> 01:06:27

I just want to thank you. Thank you, Zack l'affaire for coming and joining us. And there was one more question I had in my head that was quite important that people had been asking me.

01:06:29--> 01:06:40

Yeah, is it going to be on site this year? Do you have any idea if it's gonna be online or on site? Well, at least we know that, for the first time, we'll still be online.

01:06:42--> 01:06:44

So fast online. So

01:06:45--> 01:07:21

national students, international students who can't travel, for example, they could still enroll, right? That's right. Yeah. They could take it. Definitely they will. Yeah. And I mean, with the experience that we've had, actually, and the discussion is ongoing. And if you look at all our lecture rooms now, and lots of resources are being put in, by the time even when COVID, lockdown disappears, we'll be doing what is called blended teaching whereby I mean, teaching in class and people who are not who are international not able to come to London will also be joining us, I mean, through online.

01:07:24--> 01:07:25

Hmm, that sounds very good.

01:07:26--> 01:07:42

Thank you, professor, we're going to continue with our program to argue so much. Thank you very much for really giving me this opportunity to have this Thank you. Can I can I just say to you, professor that I actually have learned so much from you. And

01:07:44--> 01:08:19

and I actually learned, I think apart from law, and apart from Islamic law, I think I learned to write very, a lot better, you know, from through this course. And to be able to as a Muslim, I think, and as an academic, articulate my myself in an effective way in a more effective way, because I read a lot of your stuff. And that that did really help me. So I just want to thank you so much for compliments. I'm really thrilled about that fact. Well, let me ask let me seek something from you. And essentially read the

01:08:20--> 01:08:27

the short introduction on Islamic law, my shutter company slamming law, if you could go on

01:08:29--> 01:08:34

Amazon to leave a review on it. I have already have you Oh, sorry about that.

01:08:36--> 01:08:49

I didn't. I think I was one of the first people to buy it. And I okay, actually, I actually bought three copies. And I sent one to move the offline as a gift and somebody else. So

01:08:50--> 01:08:56

very, very, very popular. It has, I mean, gone into more than two reprints already, you know,

01:08:58--> 01:09:19

it leaves in very, very fast. And actually, if you look on Amazon, now they've cut the price down completely, because I mean, it's really selling like, hot when I had to interrogate them when the price went down. I thought I mean, is it nonetheless I know, they said, I mean, actually, it is selling really, really fast. This is why they could bring the price down in order for you know, okay. It's really

01:09:21--> 01:09:43

that's good. That's good, I think because it's written in such a, in such a balanced way I feel and yeah, I it's amazing, actually how you managed to fit everything in to such a small data set. And it's really, I mean, I much hamdulillah that at the end of the day, we're able to do it. So thank you so much for your time.

01:09:44--> 01:09:47

Salaam Alaikum. Hopefully I'll see you next year.

01:09:52--> 01:09:56

Okay, so that was Professor Massoud button.

01:09:57--> 01:10:00

As you can tell he's he's a

01:10:00--> 01:10:51

Really nice guy, Mashallah, he's a very nice professor. He comes from an Islamic Studies background, as we said, himself in Nigeria, he also worked for the UN. So he's very, he's an expert really in human rights and Islamic law. And this was his book that we mentioned. Okay, Islamic law, a very short introduction. So if you want to know the contents of this class, that's pretty much the best way to know the contents. If you go, if you get his book, you'll it's literally each of the chapters is everything that we studied during the Islamic law, ma class. So I'm just going to go back to my questions that people have sent me and continue answering them, I think mostly offline is gone. Now.

01:10:51--> 01:11:03

If he wants to come back, he can. But I know that in Pakistan is very, very late at the moment. So thank thank you to him does Aquila horn off the off man for participating?

01:11:04--> 01:11:05


01:11:07--> 01:11:41

yeah, so we said, it's not a doctrinal class, it's not a class where you're going to learn about Islam as a spiritual subjects as a religion, you're going to learn about all the various aspects of Islamic law, and how they interact in the real world, how Muslim countries, for example, are applying them. If you do, for example, Islamic law in global financial markets, which is basically Islamic Finance, about Islamic Finance, it will be it will really give you an introduction to how the Islamic legal system was disrupted.

01:11:42--> 01:11:49

You know, so after the halifa, and you know, what happened in the Ottoman Empire, how

01:11:50--> 01:11:54

the Islamic legal system kind of fell apart, basically, and

01:11:55--> 01:12:19

slowly but surely, but then also how countries are now reintroducing Islamic law, that's been a very eye opening aspect, I think of this course, you know, how Muslim countries are reintroducing Islamic law, and especially when it comes to finance, because that's a very, that's probably one of the areas in which Islamic law is seeing

01:12:21--> 01:12:23

a huge amount of interest and growth, right.

01:12:25--> 01:13:10

Human Rights in Islamic law, that's a very interesting subject, because you get to see all of the treaties that Muslim countries themselves have created. So you know, that Oh, I see. If you're interested, for example, in Palestinian rights, I think that'd be really interesting for you know, to study human rights and Islamic law. And to see how which countries have signed up to which treaties and you know, what the implications of that is, right? Because sometimes I think it's not very clear to us how the UN works, how human rights, treaties and regimes work, right? If you study it, you become much more aware. And you also get an appreciation for how what Islam says, about

01:13:10--> 01:13:43

freedom of speech, for example, it's not as black and white is sometimes it's presented to us, you know, I think that's one of the things I gained from this class that a lot of the subjects that you know, sometimes you see Islamophobic people or media attacking muslims for. Sometimes we as Muslims, I'm not defending it in the right way. Because we ourselves are not very clued up about what Islamic law actually says about those issues. Right. So like, for example, when it comes to freedom of speech,

01:13:45--> 01:13:54

I've seen so many debates that brothers have done online, that really, I would say missed the mark, because they it's obvious that they themselves don't really know,

01:13:56--> 01:14:07

what has been said and what has been discussed by classical scholars as well as academics, Muslim academics, on that subject. Right. So and also, again, women's rights.

01:14:08--> 01:14:22

One of the things I noticed is that when it comes to women's rights, unfortunate, unfortunately, in western academia, it's completely saturated with feminist voices right. Now,

01:14:24--> 01:14:33

that can be quite upsetting for a Muslim, right? When you enter that, and you hear the types of things that are said, right. So for example, in one of the classes, one of the professors said, you know,

01:14:35--> 01:14:59

according to this academic, you know, Muslim scholars throughout history, or the early Muslim scholars saw women as a sexual object, right? That's really upsetting to hear because it's not true. Okay? It's not true. Now, we can either get upset about stuff like that, or we can understand that actually, certain academics have written about these things. Maybe

01:15:00--> 01:15:33

engage with it. And unfortunately, they end up being the voices for that subject and that topic. If we, for example, as Muslims were to enter that field, and contribute to that field, if we were to engage, and to learn to write excellently and, you know, engage academically and get things published, we could add nuance to that, right, we could add a counter view. And I don't feel that's really being done, you know, in our times. So, Other questions?

01:15:34--> 01:16:06

Should I do Islamic studies or Islamic law, I think we've kind of answered that, if you want, you know, Islamic Studies, if you look at all the modules, on the website, you'll see slightly different modules more kind of engaged with textual study, I would say like, Koran, Hadith, and stuff like that Islamic law is from the law department, which means that it's very much about law, how it works in the world today. And there is a historical element. So we do study, you know, elements of a pseudo faith, and

01:16:08--> 01:16:18

the historical Islamic law, right, and its formation and all of that. But the bulk of the class is about Islamic law today, and how it's interacting in different

01:16:19--> 01:16:23

working in different Muslim polities right around the world.

01:16:28--> 01:17:07

But also, you can, as I said, it's quite flexible. So you could potentially take, say, one module from the near and Middle East department, you know, there's also the so you could take had the Quran, or, you know, one of those types of subjects, if you if you wanted, along with Islamic law, as long as you fulfill the core requirements, you know, there is some flexibility. And also, you can sit in on some on like one module, I think every year that you don't take it as an exam, you're not taking it officially, but you're just able to go to the lectures and benefit from that class. So for example, I did.

01:17:10--> 01:17:34

I forgotten what it's called. Now, I think it's called Islamic law in South Asia, Islam in South Asia. So got an introduction to how Islam came to South Asia. And you know, the history behind that. So, but I didn't set that as an official module for which I did an exam or an essay, I just attended the lectures in order to kind of benefit from that.

01:17:36--> 01:17:51

So it's really up to you. I mean, I found Islamic law to be a more challenging subject, then Islamic Studies, Islamic Studies. For me, it was more like more of the same in the sense that if you've

01:17:52--> 01:18:07

studied, you know, anatomy a degree, if you've been studying Arabic, you've been studying Quran and Hadith. And Islamic texts, there's a lot of translation work, for example, in Islamic Studies, there's it in some ways, it's more of the same, you know,

01:18:09--> 01:18:37

whereas Islamic law was, think outside the box, get a completely new perspective on how Islamic law is working in the world today. So for me, it was much more, it was more challenging, because it's a law subject, you literally have to get to grips with legal language, you know, legal research and stuff like that. So if you're, if you're keen on that, then I would encourage you to take Islamic law rather than Islamic Studies.

01:18:41--> 01:18:49

Other questions? How has it benefited you? Okay, for me, personally, as I mentioned, to Professor butter, and

01:18:51--> 01:19:08

I don't think doing a degree is all about the subject that you're studying. It's actually about learning to express yourself and articulate yourself. Well, in writing, I think that's one of the key things that you learn from academia, if you do it properly. Right.

01:19:09--> 01:19:27

And that's one of the things that I feel that I've really benefited from this class with. So, I would say my academic writing has improved, probably tenfold. Right? Because not just because of, of, you know,

01:19:29--> 01:20:00

sorry, not just because of having to write essays. But also because when I wrote an essay, I would get feedback from scholars from from the academics and I would improve it, right. Plus it. It's like a amazing opportunity to read. You basically, I think I've read more than I've read for like the last 10 years, right? In the last year and or two. I've read more than I read in the last 10 years. Why because you have to read that you have

01:20:00--> 01:20:51

To do a certain number of readings every week, so it's challenging, but you learn to read, you learn to read fast, you learn to, you can actually feel your brain kind of adjusting and adapting and being able to absorb much more than you would have before. Right. And that kind of practice, right? Also, there are workshops that you can attend. And that's what I really benefited from. So when I first started the class, I started I went to workshops. And the workshops would give you insights into, for example, how to write an excellent postgraduate essay, how to write your dissertation, how to get critical in your writing, you know, develop critical writing skills.

01:20:53--> 01:21:12

Also, there are certain software's you can get to know about that help you with footnotes, and bibliographies, and all of that kind of stuff, right? So I think you get out of it as much as you really want. If you're the sort of student who's just going to come to class, attend minimally, and then just go home,

01:21:14--> 01:21:27

you might not get so much out of it. Right? But if you're the sort of student who's willing to speak up in class, who's willing to question things, you know, because it's a safe space for you to ask whatever you want to challenge, even the professor's right.

01:21:28--> 01:21:37

And if you're the sort of student who after you write an essay, you, you follow it up, you you know, consult with your professors and say, can you please

01:21:38--> 01:21:41

tell me where I went wrong? How I could improve this.

01:21:43--> 01:21:56

And really engage and seek to improve your work, you know, you're going to really, really see, see yourself become a force to be reckoned with in terms of becoming articular.

01:21:57--> 01:21:58


01:21:59--> 01:22:01

what else did I want to say?

01:22:04--> 01:22:06

Those are the questions that people had sent me.

01:22:15--> 01:22:20

Another aspect is, you actually get a real appreciation for,

01:22:21--> 01:22:59

yeah, you get an appreciation for liberal views, you get an appreciation for even quite dodgy views, you know, but as Muslims, I feel like you have to engage with those views, right? If you don't want to, if you don't like that kind of thing, then this class isn't for you, you know, but if you are willing to engage, you are willing to listen to some of the very liberal views that are out there about Islamic law, people who, you know, in the past have tried, sometimes sincerely, right. But maybe taking the wrong approach. From our perspective, you know,

01:23:00--> 01:23:44

still, there's so much to benefit from that, because you at least get to appreciate what the different views were, and why they had those views. Right. So you don't you end up having a much kind of, I would say, nuanced and richer understanding of how, actually Muslim scholars had to grapple with quite difficult circumstances, you know, can you imagine like, after, like, all these countries, were divided into nation states, and then, you know, their legal systems were colonized. And English law was sometimes brought in. And then some elements of Islamic law brought brought in French legal codes were brought in, you know, this is the reality of the Muslim world at the moment.

01:23:44--> 01:24:11

And I think this course really was eye opening in that regard, you know, so it made you realize, Oh, so that's how the Saudi legal system is. That's how the Egyptian legal system is. These are the kinds of great voices from the past who tried to influence that. And, you know, who are the modern scholars? So for example, one of my essays this year was about useful use of God. Right, Yusuf al qaradawi. And his,

01:24:12--> 01:24:14

his legal theory.

01:24:15--> 01:24:15


01:24:17--> 01:24:25

that was, it was it was really eye opening. I absolutely loved writing that essay, and I loved researching it as well. And

01:24:26--> 01:24:40

you know, the, the actually one of the best writers on use of use of alcohol with Islamic legal theory, is an Israeli academic. He's actually written an amazing book on use.

01:24:42--> 01:24:50

But, yeah, so I think those are really all of the questions that people have been asking me, let me see if there are any other

01:24:51--> 01:24:52


01:25:07--> 01:25:14

Yeah, the course is available online, like if you if you register, and you pay the fees,

01:25:15--> 01:25:30

you can access it online. And you know, if I can, I will show you what it looks like. Just give me a moment, I'm actually going to give you a sneak peek into what the

01:25:31--> 01:25:33

background is like, too.

01:25:34--> 01:25:38

So this is like, I'm logging into my area of the so ass

01:25:39--> 01:25:42

kind of space. Okay, let me just show you.

01:25:53--> 01:25:54

I'm gonna share my screen with you.

01:25:56--> 01:25:57

And you shall see.

01:25:59--> 01:26:02

This is Moodle. Right? So Moodle is basically like,

01:26:04--> 01:26:05

woman that can you see?

01:26:06--> 01:26:08

Let me just see if you can see.

01:26:09--> 01:26:27

Yep, you can see, okay. So this is basically the space that you have as a student where you can where all your subjects are. So for me, for example, you can see I've got here, these are the modules that I studied human rights and Islamic law,

01:26:28--> 01:26:39

international protection of human rights, Islam in South Asia, Islamic law. So if you go to one of them, you can see for example, you will have

01:26:40--> 01:26:48

these are like student discussions that go on. And all of your lecture notes, seminar sheets are posted here every single week,

01:26:50--> 01:26:52

any kind of information that you need your exams.

01:26:54--> 01:27:16

And then the lectures because, you know, after COVID, they went online, we've been having lectures like this, basically, which is you come to this page, and you click on so this was week one, for example, the night the nature of Islamic law, you'd go to this link, and then you could attend the class online.

01:27:18--> 01:27:44

The year before that it was on site. So I got to experience both in that sense. And Professor Bertrand just said that you'd probably the first time is probably only going to be online this this year. And then it will probably go back to being on site. So just to show you this was turn one last year, the nature of Islamic law. So these are like the readings, all the stuff you have to read

01:27:46--> 01:27:47

for that class,

01:27:48--> 01:27:55

at least most of it should try to read. And then topic two was a revelation as legislation law in the Quran.

01:27:57--> 01:28:03

Topic three was the jurists and the law that early days, so you get like a historic overview as well.

01:28:05--> 01:28:08

And then text and reasoning classical theories of the law.

01:28:10--> 01:28:16

So you can see you have readings from, you know, Western Islam assists, as well as,

01:28:17--> 01:28:18

you know,

01:28:21--> 01:28:25

kind of readings about what traditional scholars said

01:28:28--> 01:28:37

fatwas and con one, post classical law and legal systems and now it's bringing it back to the modern days, right to modern times.

01:28:38--> 01:28:42

Then we had pre modern developments and early codification.

01:28:44--> 01:28:50

So you know, how things started to change, and how, you know, the Majola, which is basically

01:28:52--> 01:29:11

the I think it was the first codification of Islamic law codification means, like, making Islamic law into black and white law, rather than phip. Right. So making it as a statement statements of law, which the Ottoman started to do

01:29:13--> 01:29:15

understand understanding what effect that had.

01:29:16--> 01:29:59

And then modern legal theories and legislation. Quite interesting. You learn about the modernists and what they tried to do. You learn about liberal approaches to Islamic law and also classical approaches. What I did actually, in this section when I studied this was, I created my own categorization mess. Another thing you can do, right, as an academic, you don't have to go by the categorizations that previous academics have put right? So if they've said like traditional scholars, and then they've had they have modernist liberals, blah, blah, blah, actually created my own typology. So my typology was conservative orthodoxy, and pragmatist.

01:30:00--> 01:30:04

Orthodoxy and then liberals and then secularists. Right? So

01:30:06--> 01:30:14

you know, if you're a creative person, you can actually bring your own kind of thoughts into it your own ideas

01:30:15--> 01:30:16

and your own insights,

01:30:17--> 01:30:21

state Sharia and society, contemporary issues.

01:30:26--> 01:30:29

And then Islamic criminal law and punishments.

01:30:30--> 01:30:33

That's very interesting. courts and procedure.

01:30:35--> 01:30:36

Islamic family law,

01:30:39--> 01:30:40

the marriage contract,

01:30:43--> 01:30:46

age of marriage, marriage equality option of puberty.

01:30:48--> 01:30:54

The dour, right. It's all very interesting, like things that are quite relevant to our times as well.

01:30:56--> 01:31:13

incidents of marriage maintenance. So these are so we also studied some some cases, right cases that have been brought to different courts, either in Muslim countries or even here in the UK, where people, you know, invoked Islamic law, or referred to Islamic law for certain things.

01:31:17--> 01:31:22

So here are some cases regarding polygyny and marriage stipulations.

01:31:24--> 01:31:28

Invalid irregular marriages and their effects, tala

01:31:31--> 01:31:34

Hola, hello, and judicial desk the solution first

01:31:35--> 01:31:51

child custody and guardianship of children. Yeah, so that's, I've just given you a secret Sneak Peek, wouldn't normally get to see this. Right, because it's like my private space in the

01:31:53--> 01:31:56

in my SOS Moodle thing, as they call it.

01:31:58--> 01:32:00

Let me see if there are any other questions.

01:32:04--> 01:32:09

How do you feel having studied this course? Where do you feel this can bring bring benefit?

01:32:11--> 01:32:20

Well, you know, I think we all have our own personal I guess, goals and aims. For me, I wanted to be able to write academically,

01:32:21--> 01:32:25

and to be able to write academic books as well, in the future.

01:32:26--> 01:32:38

So and engage academically actually, a few years back, I was invited to a debate or discussion with Amina will dude, right? who's like, you know, an academic from America who,

01:32:39--> 01:32:48

who's written books about, you know, women in the Quran, and I'm from quite a, I would say, feminist and liberal approach.

01:32:49--> 01:32:51

And at that time, I remember

01:32:53--> 01:33:28

really, like, not really feeling very confident, to take part in that discussion. Not because I didn't know what the kind of Islamic answers are to certain questions, but because I wasn't familiar with the academic setting, right. And so I really felt that since a lot of Allah keeps, keeps getting me invited to, you know, speak to academics, I should enter academia, and I should also be able to engage and, you know, I actually have always wanted to do a PhD and, you know, do further study anyway. So

01:33:30--> 01:33:57

I think for me, it's benefited me in that it's made me a much better writer, it's made me able to engage with all the different issues and arguments, I think, that are there. It's improved my vocabulary, even though I'm a native English speaker, you know, just having to read so much. And having to articulate yourself well, means you end up learning so much and, you know, learning words that you wouldn't

01:33:58--> 01:34:18

usually use in everyday life. So I think it's helped me to be more articulate, and to write better, and I hope that I can get some of my work published in journals, and make a contribution to academia. Right. So those are some of the ways I think it's benefited me

01:34:19--> 01:34:22

personally, so far,

01:34:24--> 01:34:29

where can we take courses to write master's thesis?

01:34:32--> 01:34:59

So I think somebody is asking, like, how can you get, like learn how to write a master's thesis, etc. Well, you know, what, if you sign up to a university like so as you do get access to a lot of extra courses and workshops and things where you could attend and learn some of these things, but at the end of the day, you know, you actually have to do the writing. You have to actually practice you have to

01:35:00--> 01:35:02

Do it. And that's where you really do the learning.

01:35:03--> 01:35:49

But also there are guidebooks you can get, that really help you to write Master's theses. And I guess throughout the year, because you're writing so much, and you're writing essays, so typically, for example, for Islamic law, you write a 4000 word essay. And then you have the exam. And sometimes the exam can be an essay, depending on, you know, what the setup is, if there's a pandemic going on, or whatever, you know, that can change. But when you're writing, like 4000, word essays, three or four or five times, you become good at writing, right? Like you, you have the opportunity to practice and really engage. And as I said, I actually learnt a lot from Professor butterbeans own

01:35:49--> 01:36:02

writing, because he is a practicing Muslim. And, you know, even though he has to engage with quite with different areas of Islamic law, and quite liberal ideas, actually,

01:36:04--> 01:36:12

I've always found personally, him to be quite true to, to, you know, orthodox ideals,

01:36:13--> 01:36:39

perhaps maybe, you know, more of a pragmatic approach, right, rather than conservative. But, you know, I don't see him as somebody who, for example, you know, believes in secularism, for example, you know, as there are other Muslim academics who do. So I actually found reading his work and seeing how he engages with different

01:36:41--> 01:37:26

views, even views that he doesn't necessarily agree with, I found that really useful, because it kind of trains you and makes you able to do the same. And one of the one of the questions I did get was, like, you know, what's the point of studying a degree and Western University? Like, you know, they're not going to teach you about your deen? Right? Well, the point is that you're not here to learn about the deen, right, the point of this, these types of courses is not to learn your religion, in order to practice it. I think the point is to become aware of the different discussions that are taking place in the academic space regarding various aspects of Islamic law, and to be able

01:37:26--> 01:37:35

to engage with them and become conversant with academia right, and be able to be part of that discussion.

01:37:37--> 01:37:50

I don't think there's anything more amazing than going to a library and digging up books from, you know, scholars of the past popsicle and academic scholars,

01:37:51--> 01:38:17

and just dipping into them and realizing that, you know, this is the Treasury that is there, you know, the treasure that is there, in those libraries waiting for us to kind of read it, absorb it, the effort that was put into those books and writing those books and engaging in those issues. You know, we've got to benefit from that. And we've got to be able to engage with that. So I think,

01:38:19--> 01:38:31

yep, I hope I've kind of given you all a good overview, and I'm going to end the session now if there are no other questions so desirable out here. And thank you so much for joining me.

01:38:32--> 01:38:36

I really hope that you benefited from

01:38:37--> 01:39:17

hearing from of the afternoon and Professor Massoud brother in and myself, we're not I wasn't here to advertise the Islamic law class at so as I was here to give you an insight into it, I guess, if you are considering it, and to tell you that Yeah, you know, there are a lot of things you can benefit from this class with. And as Professor Vedran highlighted there are things that sometimes as a Muslim might challenge your thinking that you might not like as well, right there were an Mufti a fan also highlighted that myself and him you know, we sometimes in class would,

01:39:19--> 01:39:32

would push back against certain ideas, right, that were being put forward by certain academics. Um, but if you have a strong grounding in your DNA, and if you have,

01:39:33--> 01:39:59

if you can study with scholars, you know, with classical scholars, alongside your studies or before you come to this class, then inshallah it should not be something that kind of affects you in a negative way. It should be something that, you know, matures you in a way and allows you to kind of engage, to become comfort conversant with the issues involved, and to become really aware

01:40:00--> 01:40:05

Have you know what discussions are taking place? So

01:40:07--> 01:40:20

with that, I'm going to leave you and bid you farewell. She's gonna love her and this video should be available afterwards in sha Allah. So if you know anyone who needed to hear this, please do share it with them.

01:40:21--> 01:40:22

And hopefully I'll see you

01:40:23--> 01:40:28

on the podcast or on my own podcast on Muslim Central

01:40:30--> 01:40:46

at a future date, just like Malala Herron salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. subhanak. Allah homo behind the shadow Allah Illa. Illa. anta stone Furukawa to be like wa salam alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh