Channel: Ahmed Deedat
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It was at the end of the great historical debate in the Royal Albert Hall, London on the seventh of July 1985. Between Professor Floyd E. Clarke of the United States of America, and Mr. Ahmed deedat of South Africa, the Dr. Suresh confronted Mr. deedat for the first time, during the question and answer session at the aforementioned meeting on the subject was Christ crucified.
This liberated Palestinian, now a citizen of the United States, well spoken and immaculately dressed, was easily mistaken for a Pakistani. No, listen to his well articulated English and still more eloquent Arabic at question time. And Mr. de dez replies, I would like to see that I'm grateful for this opportunity. And my questions are actually two number one. If the Quran is indeed from God, does it predict itself in as much as it says, Okay.
Therefore, Jesus was born, he died and he rose again. The second question is, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the rules, the rules of the game is to ask one question and get the back so that other people don't have a chance. Thank you. Now the question is directed to Mr. Mr. Lee, that's
the verse in question is for Salaam aleja yo ma v. y Yamamoto vayama Bahia, which translated means so PCs on me, the day that I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised to life again, that day that I die, it is not that I died, is not died is in the future.
Mr. de das did not know during his lecture tour of Britain that he was being followed. Subsequently, at the end of one of his lectures in the city hall of Birmingham during question time, which is one of the regular features at every lecture of Mr. deedat, Dr. Suresh came forward to challenge Mr. de edad, to a public debate.
Fortunately, in this advanced electronic age, we were able to capture Dr. Suresh on video to reproduce for you this historical record.
I greet you
and forcefully. But I want to challenge you anywhere in the world to meet me and debate any topic.
Because you have given these people whom I respect as knowledgeable people, misinformation.
And as I take great pride in saying that our thing perfect is a great man. But my question is following the chairman suggestion, would you be willing?
This is the question.
If you will just identify yourself as to who you are,
is one of 10 million
as their faith, and we're proud to say that a slap is a reality, a branch of the Christian faith and insect
life. Thank you very much.
I still haven't been the Navy doesn't matter. Because I mean, it
sounds more Pakistani, give me a nice hardcover, rather than a nice, I accept your challenge.
And I'm giving you a blank check to hire the number four.
On the subject, you can choose, I give them to you, we have already discussed the presentation. And we don't want to go to the same thing again and again. You can choose a subject like is Jesus God? Is Jesus God because I'm a Christian? I don't know whether you are one of those that the Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate.
Is Jesus God? Or is the Bible God? Or the truth of our Trinity? Or Jesus man, myth of God. So being recorded, I think we can get a taste of that. As it is Jesus broad power is the Bible God's word. The truth of our Trinity on Jesus made me
more of them than you do who put the ball for four or five days consecutive?
It is you my brother to challenge me. You see, I paid for the number for
an American. He was a gentleman.
He was gentlemen enough to have a dialogue with me for that because I suggested to him, I paid for the hall, I advertised.
Thank you very much that that if I can have that in writing for you.
Before you go away from the whole, I would like to set this in writing from you your name, address and who you are. And then I think you date you don't give me a date any issue in September, in September or after we have to go out the window September was delivered. So you hide apart and you tell me
note that during Mr. D dance acceptance of the Christians challenge Mr. D dad had mistaken Dr. Suresh for a Pakistani. During the interchange of words in Birmingham, no connection was established between the Challenger and the question of the Royal Albert Hall. Had it not been for the gift of this electronic wizard, the video, all the historical exchanges would have been lost to posterity. And without this audio visual recording, we would never have been sure that the question of the Royal Albert Hall on the seventh of July and the challenger on the 15th of July, were one on the same person
while still in the UK in July 1985. The topic for the debate that is is Jesus God and the format and the tentative date were finalized between Dr. Suresh and Mr. deedat. But in a letter dated the 14th of August 1985, Dr. Suresh changed the subject, and also invented a new format.
I quote, point three, the topic is, is Christ indeed the Son of God?
point for part three. first speaker, Mr. Othman deedat 50 minutes. point four seconds speaker, Mr. Ennis, Suresh, 50 minutes. point five. Second rebuttal. Mr. De dex. 10 minutes. point six second rebuttal, Dr. Suresh, 10 minutes. point seven final remarks, Mr. deedat, five minutes.
point eight final remarks. Dr. Suresh, five minutes.
On the first of September, Mr. De Dan took Dr. Suresh to task for going back on his word.
And I quote, I hope you received my telegram of even deed, I regret very much you're changing the subject from is Jesus God, to an insipid topic like is Christ indeed the Son of God? topic, we debated this subject while both of us were in the UK, and we'd settled for is Jesus God, a hard hitting succinct, potent and dynamic topic, in contrast with your is Christ indeed the Son of God. Why don't you believe that Jesus is God? If you don't, then we will change the subject that you had agreed? Are you getting cold feet?
You know that your format is patently unjust, why not leave the format as agreed, in other words that the first speaker, whoever he is speak for 15 minutes, and the second speaker for 60 minutes, followed by the first speaker, who will have the final 10 minutes, same as between me and Dr. Clark.
to appear Justin fair, the chairman will toss a coin in front of the audience. You were absolutely tickled by this suggestion of mine on the phone. Have you forgotten this also?
On the 18th of September 1985, Dr. Suresh finally agreed to the original subject to be debated, but he leaves the format in the air as late as November the 15th. And unjust format is still being stubbornly muted by Dr. Suresh. And again, I quote
50 minutes first speaker 15 minutes second speaker, eight minutes rebuttals. first speaker, eight minutes rebuttals second speaker.
up to 15 minutes before the start of the great debate. The format was still unsettled, Mr. deedat and willingly agreed to the unjust format of Dr. Suresh leaving everything to our
And the tossing of the coin, Dr. Suresh lost the toss and the outcome of the debate, we leave to you, the intelligent viewer to decide.
We have a notice
between one and 2000 people were unable to get in here tonight.
And therefore, they were reluctantly turned away by the police on the instruction of the authorities here because there was no room. In a debate of this nature.
It's important that we understand the character of the meeting that we've come to.
I believe this is a historic occasion
where those who come from a Christian perspective can listen to those who come from an Islamic perspective and vice versa.
And I speak as chairman of this meeting.
I am a committed Christian. My name is Clive Carver, and I'm general secretary of the Evangelical Alliance. For the purpose of this meeting, I will remain totally impartial.
And will seek to act in true British fashion as a neutral
will endeavor to do so for the next two and a half hours. I'd rather welcome you on behalf of both our participants, who are thrilled that this world is so full tonight, it's good that you've taken the time to come to this important occasion.
You may be wondering when you yourselves will have an opportunity in participating in this debate. And after our two main speakers have delivered their initial address, there will be an opportunity for you to write down any question that you may wish to have answered on a piece of paper. And then the students will collect it. And we'll bring it down here in order that it may be drawn in partially, from a bin containing all the questions that we received. And with whatever time we have left. such questions as can be answered, will be answered.
There are certain rules governing this debate. We would like to request that there be no cheering.
There'll be no overt partisan activities, no waving of banners or anything similar.
And no chanting.
That is because we believe this is an opportunity to learn and to hear
no justice shirt for our respective position.
After the main speaker has spoken, you may greet his contribution from both sides with polite applause, which will not be extended. And we would ask you to observe that and we would ask that those from both perspectives. applaud both speakers. We are grateful to them for getting that time and the energies and coming to share in this important debate.
That is one of the things that needs to be stated very firmly.
Once you are in your seats, we request that you do not leave your seats unless it is absolutely essential.
We would ask that you do not move up the aisles. And we would ask that in no way Do you ever attempt to break through the extensive security code to come onto the platform that would not be an order or fitting as part of this debate. And we would ask you just to observe those few limitations.
What I would like to do at this point in time is to introduce our two speakers to you. So I've said already we're thrilled that they're here for this vital debate. And I'm going to ask Mr. Ultimate Thompson, if he would just briefly introduce Mr. deedat. To us all. Thank you.
Good evening, Miss Miller.
Mr. Maddox is probably well known to many of you already. He's been in England several times before and was here at the Albert Hall in July and last summer. In another similar debate to this. He's the director of the Islamic Propagation center in Durban in South Africa.
And he's a man who has studied both the Quran and the Bible for a considerable length of time.
Obviously, as a Muslim, he accepts the Quran as the final revelation from God to man to the last the prophets, and much of his perspective is based on what is in the Quran.
He is also interested in the Bible though, which although it does not contain the original gospel of Jesus in the original Mac is nevertheless still an interesting document
We should just draw your attention to one of the verses of Quran
which says, and the science is addressed primarily to the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah on him,
but also to all Muslims. And it says, If anyone disputes with you,
after the knowledge which has come to you, this is the knowledge in the Quran.
Then say to them,
bring your sons and your women folk and yourselves and ourselves together.
And let us pray to Allah, let us pray to God.
May the curse of Gods be on us if we are lying.
So on behalf of Mr. de Deus, and of all the Muslims, I would just like to say that as far as the knowledge which he referred to from the Quran, may the curse of a lie Be honest if it is not true. Okay.
We're pleased to also have on the platform the Reverend Fred Masami from Jacksonville, Florida. He is a missionary at large and he's come as Mr. Shaw, Russia's companion tonight,
a word or two of introduction to an issue rush. And he says a Palestinian became a refugee in 1948. in Jordan, he went to the USA and studied in Mississippi, where he received the degrees of Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of divinity. He is married with four children, three boys and a girl, and has worked as a Christian evangelist since 1966. He lives in Mobile, Alabama, and possesses a further degree in the doctorate of ministries. And a nice is warmly welcome here tonight as well, having made the trip across the Atlantic.
Before we toss the coin, this is the moment where we introduce the threats
should anybody get really carried away, they will be carried away.
This will not be done by either a Christian or a Muslim, it will be done by both.
Because we are thrilled that the stewarding of this event is a cooperative venture as well. And so please would you observe the regulations do not
exceed what we have said, Do not attempt to come to the platform in any form. Please restrain yourselves, you may well hear things tonight, that will be offensive to you. From whichever position you might come.
That without being taken too far is in the nature of the debate.
We would urge you to accept that and recognize that the best testimony you can give. For whichever position of faith you take will be seen in conduct not in words. And however much you may wish to make a point in words. The attitude and conduct that we all have towards each other tonight will show far more of our faith than any words we might use. So let us act in courtesy
and in gentle cooperation together tonight.
That's going to be the spirit of this debate. That's the way we're going to handle it. And if there is any need for any interjection, then I will come to this microphone. And we'll make an interjection.
In a few moments, both our speakers are going to speak to us they will speak for 15 minutes each. I will gently touch them on the elbow when they have two minutes left, two minutes left. If they don't finish on time, I will stand up and place a brotherly arm around their shoulder and encourage them to sit down but I'm sure that won't be necessary. We're going to be very democratic about this. We're going to spend a coin to see who goes first can ask Mr. Thompson if he'll spend the coin. He has one in his hand, going to ask a nice shirt or she'll call in the air and we'll see what happens.
And this is called heads which will give him the choice of he is correct him who goes first. If it is tails, Mr. Jinnah will have the choice of who goes first. Its tails. Mr. Did you had the choice?
Mr. Suresh goes first. Thank you very much.
Come join me on this. Make sure I'm not sorry what even bellary I greet you tonight in the name of Jesus then as the man
from my hometown,
in the city of Nazareth, we are taught, never go see a friend empty handed. Tonight, I take great pleasure in presenting my friend whom I'm meeting personally for the first time, mystery that with the present.
I also like to present our chairman of the deacons a special present. And this is the key to our city of Mobile, Alabama, which is presented to people who contribute much not only to our great city, but to others as well.
And to all the colleagues of my friend, Mr. Lee, that I have a special Bible marker from the holy city of Jerusalem, with a picture of the Dome of the Rock and other sites
all received one.
I believe that many of you have been sitting here for a while some have traveled a long distance, it is time for you to rise for a few moments, would you please stand up with me everyone. And as you stand,
I like to share with you a practice that I do. I read my Bible in my native language of Arabic on my knees, and I read it standing in public as a symbol of respect and reverence. For those of you who brought your Bible like Mr. Dilip suggested in his announcements and advertisement, you may wish to turn to Hebrews chapter one, please. Hebrews chapter one, we read only the first eight verses,
God, who at various times, and in different ways spelke in time passed to the fathers, by the prophets, as in these last days, spoken to us by His Son, whom he has appointed air of all things, through him also he made the worlds will be the brightness of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself, purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels as he has inherited, obtained, more excellent name than they, for two which of the angels Did he ever say, You are my son, today I have begotten you. I will be to Him a father, and he shall be
to me a son. But when he again brings the firstborn into the world, he says, Let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels, he says, Who makes his angel spirits and his ministers flame of fire, but to the sun, he says, Your throne, oh, God is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is a scepter of your kingdom. Thank you and be seated please.
Very street English governor of ancient Palestine. Pontius Pilate stood on a balcony overlooking a crowd gathered in the courtyard at the Antonia Fortress in Jerusalem where I lived before I moved away. He asked the restless crowd, a very serious question. What
shall I do with Jesus, who is called the Christ?
Tonight 19 152 years right?
And ever since that historic event, the eternal destiny of every human soul depends on how he answers this question. The answer of the crowd on that early morning in Jerusalem was crucify him
the reason which they gave to Pilate, according to our law, he died because he made himself the Son of God,
dreading a serious uprising,
faced by the jealous religious leaders, and seeking to please the demanding crowd. The governor succumbed in
byte of his forthright declaration three times, I find no fault in him. six centuries later.
The Quran also calls him zakian, faultless, sinless. I asked you tonight, why Jesus of Nazareth a liar,
a lunatic, or Lord as he claimed he was
creation, conscience and history substantiates the existence of God. religions are men's effort, serious effort at finding God. So say that philosophers, theologians, historians,
but wait a moment, I want to ask you a question.
Is God really lost for us to look for him and find him? Is it not we who are lost and therefore he comes to seek us? That is why
he through Christ, come looking for you and me, once again, to impress your intelligent minds.
I read from the Bible, Second Corinthians four, verse three and four. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe less the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God should shine on them.
When I came in Canada in Girona Maktoum, and finally home octoman, Phil Halle Keane, and Levine Fie him, Ella had her armor at hand, meaning Allah, Allah home in Iraq, Injeel mesh, the mesh Allahu wa surah Allah.
The Bible is the most extraordinary book in the world. The Divine library is made up 66 books, written over a period of 1500 years by over 40 writers, some were kings, some were poor, some are rich, some are old, some are young, summer shepherds, some were fishermen. Yet it shows itself as the inspired, inerrant Word of God, because the author is one, the Holy Spirit of the Living God. I read you from Second Peter, chapter one, verse 20, and 21. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation for prophecy Naira came by the will of man but holy men of God.
as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, alanine had
an akula nobuaki tab, laser settlement of Syrian costs landerholm tech tunable watan for the Mashiach insan Bertha can Nana own said, una sala, could you soon muscle clean men are row.
We know that the Bible is inspired because of the fulfilment of prophecies uttered centuries before the events ever took place. It has influenced the uplifting of human society whenever it has been believed and practiced. Furthermore, the Bible's accuracy has been challenged, but never proven. Its accuracy has been substantiated by historical documents, archaeological finds and ancient manuscripts. Right now there are over 25,000 copies of the Scripture available, some of them at the Great British Museum for you to check out the accuracy of the Word of God. For instance, Codex alexandrinus, dates back to 350 at Codex vaticanus to 325 at the Dead Sea Scrolls, which cover the
entire Old Testament go back to 2250 years ago. Some of you are well informed about the fantastic discoveries of you get of 30 years ago in Syria, and of 10 years ago in the great city of Ebola in which our entire civilization has been on Earth. Both have increased our faith in biblical authority and divine inspiration. Jesus our Lord himself, who never thought that I said, heaven and earth shall pass away but my word shall stand forever as Santa or thessalon Well, I can tell me lie as you listen to the warning at the end of the Bible, in Revelation 22
18 through 19. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the book of life.
The God, which the Bible reveals to us, is one God.
My dear brothers, sisters, precious friends, there is only one God,
one God, yet unfathomable as it is to our limited mentality, mysterious as it is our understanding this one through God, despite every unbelievers, rejection, atheist, agnostic and whatever, presents himself as a Triune God, it is not my discovery. No, it is his own revelation of himself in nature, the Bible and other ways. Let me emphasize that I humbly tonight seek to understand this mystery, as much as you do, and confess to both of our limitations. Nevertheless, let us please look at examples from nature, in which God provides some evidence of the Trinity. We have the elements, how many
three solids, gases, liquids, all matter comes from those three, the air we breathe,
is also three atoms, one oxygen, one hydrogen, one nitrogen, but it is there. Water is normally liquid, but frozen, it becomes ice, and ball becomes gas or Steam, the same substance, yet three forms. Look at the Sun 93 million miles away. It's warm. It's like, it's heat comes to us. It is one sun. Time is divided into Past, Present future man himself, his spirits, mind and body. Even the family is made up of father, mother and children.
From the very first verses in the Bible, the Trinity is revealed for anyone to see. If you have your Bible you may wish to look at that.
We discover In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Here is God, the Creator, the Heavenly Father. In verse two, we discovered God, the Spirit, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water. When we are told in verse three, then God said, Let there be light. Here in plain language, in the spoken word of God, is the spoken word of God, the speech of God, if you please the Word of God, centuries later, we hear the echo of this very truth. In the Gospel of john, where we are told in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was gone.
We'll bet he can and kalama was Kelly McKenna and the law. What can I tell him Allah, the word as a person becomes obvious in verse two where we are told he Yes, the word he, he was, in the beginning with God have that kind of a bet in the law. Once again, we marvel at the revelation of the Trinity in the same first chapter of Genesis, when God said, Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, verse 26, are you to tell me please, was God discussing the making of the crown of his creation with himself? In other words, was he talking to himself? Or was he talking to someone else within this mighty Trinity we call God. Indeed, lava two persons within the Trinity. Notice the
Scripture, our image, our likeness, let us free clear cut pronouns. Moving to verse 27, we are astonished again, saw God created man in his own image, in the image of God, He created him, male and female, he created them the mysteries unveiled, as we see three pronouns, but not the poor as the above. They are now singular. Yes, one got no data. Yet three persons, a black
I said Trinity. In Genesis 322, this truth is brought up again.
Then the Lord said, Behold, the man has become like one of us to know good and evil. In the book of beginnings, Chapter 11, verse seven, we are informed of this mystery once again, when men were building the Tower of Babel, come, God says, Let us go down and they're confused their language. Once again, I asked you was God talking to himself? If so, why does he say,
Come? Let me go down? In the awesome vision of Isaiah, in the awesome vision of Isaiah, in chapter six, where the angels proclamation and verse three, holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory, diligent listeners, can you explain to me why holy is repeated three times one or two, or four or more?
Is God the spirit, the word are getting clearer to you? additionally, in verse eight, makes the Trinity ever more clear. Also, I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? Did you catch it? I sin. Go for us. The US is the eye The eye is that many of you know Arabic.
Although Arabic, some of us say is my mother's tongue at face my tongue, my mother still has her tongue. I've got my tongue. But listen to this.
Our verbs like an older cinematic languages present a different concept. In dealing with grammar.
We have the Old Testament in Hebrew, much like Arabic, we have a singular verb, a dual verb, and then three or more. Take for instance, our word again. That's the singular means he ate akella. That stew, ate a Caillou that's three who ate. Therefore, in all the Semitic languages, the verb frequently identifies the number of persons involved in the action. You in English can refer to one two or a million, but not so in Arabic, or Hebrew. Even the word Elohim is a plural word, which is the name of God in Hebrew. Haven't a Shama
in Genesis one one, we read the word Shama, which is a ruler, meaning heavens, never occurred to you why God revealed himself in this manner. I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
In the book of Numbers, chapter six, verse 24, and 26. The instructions are given for the aaronic blessing. Why is it a Trinitarian blessing if God is only one, The Lord bless you and keep you, the Lord make his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you, the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
From the Christmas story, according to Dr. Luke, chapter two, verse 13, we recognize the one Triune God again, glory to God and the highest Ranger sin, He is in the highest, and on earth peace. Everybody sing about that, at this time around the world. According to Isaiah 961 of the titles of Jesus is Prince of Peace. The angels were announcing the embodiment of peace in Bethlehem. Thirdly, we see the spirit of joy, goodwill towards men. The Trinity is depicted powerfully during the baptism of Jesus, and immediately coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens potting and the Spirit descending upon him like a dog, then a voice came from heaven. You are my beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased.
Not only at the birth of Jesus and the beginning of his public ministry, but also towards the end. The Trinity is clearly demonstrated on Mount Tabor, a short distance from my hometown of Nazareth. At the Transfiguration, God's Spirit is seen as a cloud. And God the Father proclaims, This is my beloved
Son in whom I am well pleased hearing him have an email Habib lsvt, loud smile. Now I ask you to explain to me, dear friends,
that frequency of the finger free if it did not point to the Trinity in these incidents, the Lord Jesus performed three miracles of catching fish in gallery. He raised three people from the dead, a girl, a youth and an adult to show his love for all ages. Three times Peter denied his Lord. Later three times Peter declared his love for his Lord. Three disciples were witnesses of his transfiguration, three years he ministered in our world, he was one of three crucified on that date, one because of sin, one in sin and he for sin, then heroes on the third day,
can you deny God's proclamation? Are you telling me that the Almighty is misleading us? Or worse, still lying? let God be God. And don't tell him what he can or cannot say, Be or do. He is as himself, who never told a lie, or sin, concluded his redemptive ministry, in this crystal clear declaration found in Matthew 2818, through 20. All authority is given to me in heaven and on earth, what prophet dare say that, go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age. Millions of Christians
call this the Great Commission.
Many began their worship services with in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Now, the question before us, ah, Jesus God, let me emphasize that if Jesus was born in the same manner, like you and like, I am not supernaturally from aversion, lived only like ordinary men died like we all do, and did not rise and go to heaven, then we have no case for the jury whatsoever. He would be thrown out tonight as an imposter. But the real question tonight is this was God, Jesus. If we accept the fact that God is almighty, and can do anything, our dilemma becomes apparent. On one hand, we claim God can become anybody because he is not limited in power. Yet on the other hand, we imply he is not all powerful.
When we deny him that prerogative to become a man, I submit to you, dear friends, that man can never become God. This is blasphemy. But God can become men. And his name is Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, King of kings and Lord of lords. Dr. Stanley Jones, called apostle to India, explained the types of religions in the world. The first he said, was the word made word, God revealing himself primarily in a holy book. The second type is the word made law. God is used as primarily found in a set of rules. The third is the Word made flesh. If humans were libraries, the best way to communicate with them would be through a book.
If humans were constitutions, and bylaws, they would respond best to a set of laws. Because we are humans, God chose to make the word flesh as we need, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory as the glory of the only begotten Son of God, while Kelly massages on wahala banana
mamdouh an Amazon wahaca. For those of you who know the story of Abraham, let me refresh your memory tonight. God came to Abraham as a man 1500 years before God came into Bethlehem as a babe. Let us look at Genesis 18 please
Then the Lord appeared to him by that oak trees of memory as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. Listen carefully. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him. They just materialized. And when he saw them, he ran from the 10 door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground and said, My Lord, if I have found grace in your sight, do not pass on by your seventh, we read in verse 13. And the Lord said to Abraham, why did share a laugh, saying Shall I should libera child, since I am old, is anything too hard for the Lord? at that point of time, I will return to you according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. later on.
as Abraham intercedes for Sodom and Gomorrah, we notice that he's speaking to him as one of the men to the Lord. Look at verse 22. And following, then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. And Abraham came near and said, should you also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were 50 righteous within the city, would you also destroy the place I'm not spirit for the 50 righteous that we're in it? For, be it from you, you to do such a thing as this to slay the righteous with the wicked show that the righteous should be, as the wicked, Far be it from you shall not that judge of all the earth do right? The last verse
in Genesis 18, tells of this human appearance of the Great God of the universe. So the Lord went his way, as soon as he had finished speaking with Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place. Pray, tell me, dear friend,
if God Almighty did not choose to limit himself to time and place, space and face, then how could he ever walk away from the presence of Abraham?
It states, so the Lord went his way. What shall we say of Melchizedek? Who was indeed another appearance of Jesus, for this Melchizedek Hebrews seven verse one, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who made Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings,
and blessed him, to also Abraham gave a 10th overall, first being translated king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, meaning king of peace, without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like the Son of God remains a priest continually. Adam was a created being from the dust of the earth, and we are dust to, but Jesus was born by the Spirit of God.
they are friends, in his book, What is his name? takes great pains to prove that one great characteristic of a true God is He who does not eat at night?
who are you?
And who are our primitive tribesmen to tell God what he can or cannot do? Say Obi hare, in Genesis 18, we are told of three heavenly visitors, the leader addressed by Abraham as Lord, and He stood by them as they ate. Jesus centuries later, that same friend and more of Abraham ate with his disciples before and after the resurrection, because he chose to do so because he is God. Maybe you problem, my dear sir,
is although you emphatically announced 40 times a day, God is greater Allahu Akbar, he is not big enough to perform the smashing fantastic miracles.
How? I say How long are you going to keep God distance from us, this interested in us, dictatorial toward us, we who are made in His own image, than men appear to Abraham, but to lift to add saddam and one man stayed at rest as the Lord. May I sincerely, systematically and strongly present you with some of the basic characteristics of God and let you discover for yourself that in all of these, Jesus does
Clearly reveal himself to be indeed what we expect God to be. God is omnipresent, present everywhere in the past, Jesus existed. And now Father, glorify me together with yourself with the glory, which I had with you before the world was john 17. Five, while en machiney, anti Arab and Attica, Bill managed Allah, the Kennedy indika. cobbler Coney Island, that mystery that tried to explain that way, and therefore contradicts himself and his own words in Birmingham. In July, when he told the audience, I believe every word of Jesus that is written in the gospels, again, in John's Gospel 856 to 58, we read your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews
said to him, you're not yet 50 years old? And have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am,
why I am. If you read Exodus, chapter three, verse 13, following you will understand why.
When Moses said to God, indeed, when I come to the children of Israel, and say to them, the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And they say to me, what's his name?
What shall I say to them?
And God said to Moses, I am who I am. And he said to him, thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I am has sent me to you, whatever prophecy of Micah five two, which tells a Bethlehem as the birthplace of the bone, King, the Messiah, then concludes, who is going forth, have been from a world from the days of eternity? Is this a description of a mere man, or indeed, of God who can descended to be a man?
I quote from John's Gospel 1724, concerning his existence when the world began, for you loved me, before the foundation of the world. It's take notes. Now, the most familiar passage in john 1123, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh. Now in the future, I like to say to you,
to confirm this truth. Listen to the wisdom of Solomon, in Proverbs 30, verse four, listen, who has ascended to heaven, or descendant who has gathered a wind in his face? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name? And what is his son's name? If you know?
Where is the answer? Or what is the answer? Jesus, our Lord 10 centuries later, gave us the answer in john 313. No one has ascended to heaven, but he who came down from heaven, that is the son of man who is in heaven. The Bible states that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today forever, a title reserved only to God.
In the last book of the Bible, we are mystified at the revelation in 118. I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the beginning and the end, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty, first 17 and 18, that same chapter, and when I saw him, john says, I fell at his feet as dead. But he laid his right hand on me saying to me, do not be afraid. I am the first and the last. I am He who lives and was dead, and behold, I'm alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death. Do these incredible pronouncements, prophecies and proclamations sound like this supernaturally born Jesus is just a man or truly incarnate deity. God is omniscient, all knowing. A great number of my learned listeners tonight. know the story of the seven eight and woman found in john four. Why was
she convinced he was what he told her the Messiah.
He said to her you want this living water bothering her husband. She said, I don't have a husband. He looks straight in the eye and said You spoke the truth.
You had five and the one you have now is not your husband. She said
she was terrified, ran back to town. And what did she say? Come see a man who told me things that I have ever done, could this be the Christ? And they found he was the president. Some of you may remember the story of Philip. Philip found Nathaniel and said to him, we have found him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus, so Nathaniel, coming toward him and said to him, behold, an Israelite, indeed, in whom is no guile. And Daniel said to him, how do you know me? Jesus answered and said to him, before Philip, called you when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. Nathaniel answered and said to him, Rabbi, You are the Son of God, you are the king of Israel. Only God knows the unknown. How did Jesus see Nathaniel, when no one else, but God saw him the future. Jesus predicted his betrayal, his crucifixion, his death, his resurrection in such minute details that even the disciples themselves overwhelmed could not for a while, believe him. He also predicted Peters denial three times, his
most faithful follower, he accurately described the destruction of Jerusalem, which took place 37 years later. And in addition to that, he told of the end of the world, and the conditions leading up to it which we are right now tonight in London all over the world are experiencing, even in what we call the Lord's Supper, Jesus predicted his death for sinners, resurrection, and second.
Can anyone in clear conscience intellectual honesty, and in the pursuit of fairness say after these clear proves that Jesus was anything but God in flesh?
Even the Koran testifies that Jesus is the only person who knows the hour of judgment. Matthew's Gospel we are told that the Wiseman of the east came to Bethlehem is he God is to be worshipped. Listen to this. When they came, they asked, Where is he who is born key strange that they call the child King, instead of the proper title, Prince. At any rate, we discovered in verse 11, of Matthew two, they saw the young child with marry his mother, and fell down and worshiped him not marry. My encourage you, my dear friend, to recognize that wise men still worship Him. The three gifts gold representing him as King, frankincense, represent Him as God. myrrh, represent him as dying for our
Savior. Even demons recognized and worship Jesus, Mark five, six and seven tells us of the story. But when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him, and he cried out with our voice and said, What have I to do with you Son of the Most High God?
In Luke 2041, we see several facts among them that worship of Jesus, even by his enemies, Jesus is speaking. And he said to them, how can they say that that Christ is David son? Now David himself said, in the book of Psalms, the Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool. David therefore, calls him Lord, how is he then his son?
According to the ninth chapter of john, Jesus healed a young man born blind.
Then we read in verse 35, through 38, exciting another story. Jesus heard that they had cast him out. And when he had found him, he said to him, Do you believe in the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I may believe in Him? And Jesus said to him, you have both seen him, and it is he who is talking to you. Then he said, Lord, I believe, and he worshiped him. Let me present your inquisitive minds and seeking hearts with a glimpse of who Jesus is, according to Colossians chapter one, verse 13, and following, he has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in who we have read
Tension through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created, that are in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him, and He is before all things. And in him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, that first born from the dead, that in all things he may have the preeminence. God is also omnipotent, all powerful.
Who in the world has power over nature? And the elements? You see, of course, God, then tell me please tell me please, who was Jesus when he still the storm over Galilee? according to Luke 822. And what about his walking over the water? Mark 645. After that, he's going up to heaven, defying gravitation, at the conclusion of His earthly ministry of redemption. according to Acts one, four and following. Elijah was taken up in a chariot, my friends, a chariot of fire, but Jesus went up on his own power, because he could do it. power over life. In Matthew 2180, in following reread,
Jesus had power to any healings. Now in the morning, as he returned to the city, he was hungry, and seeing a fig tree by the road, remember, he was hungry because he was a man he chose to be a man. It was a perfect man a perfect God, and seeing a fig tree by the road, he came to it and found nothing on it, but leaves and said to it, let no fruit grow on you ever again. And immediately, the fig tree withered away.
power over death. The familiar story of raising Lazarus is found in john 11. The body had been in the grave, rotting for days, Jesus called him back to life. Jesus also raised a 12 year old girl, and Mark five, a teenage boy Luke seven, and do not forget what he said. He declared, I am the resurrection and the life.
JOHN 1125 power over Satan and his demons. Luke 826 tells a fantastic encounter of Jesus where the demonic world and they sail to the country of the galleries, which is opposite gallery, when he stepped out on the land. They're making a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes. No did he live in a house, but in the tubes when he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before him, and with a loud voice said what to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God,
power of a sickness, the invitation of Jesus and unparalleled in the history of the world. Come on to me, you are laboring and heavy laden and I will give you rest. He gets cited a blind, healing to the paralytic life to the dead. He healed all manner of system of sickness, Matthew 1215, and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all power to forgive. Let's read the gospel, from which we find the story, both in mark two as well as Matthew nine. You see, they brought this man could not get in the Lord him from the ceiling. Jesus saw him in the first thing he said, Your sins are forgiven.
The people murmured in their hearts. He knew what they were saying your hearts and what did he say to them? We are told who can forgive sins but God alone? That was their fault. And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they reason dust within themselves, he said to them, why do you reason about these things in your hearts, which is easier to say to the paralytic, Your sins are forgiven you or to say, Arise, take up your bed and walk, but that you may know that the Son of God has power on earth to forgive, since he forgave the sinful woman. He forgave that thief on the cross, but never once that he asked forgiveness for himself, never once he prayed to forgive his
tormentors, power to create the prerogative of God is recognized in Jesus when He fed the 5000 according to Luke nine from five loaves and two fishes. On another occasion, he fed the 4000 in market
from few loaves and fishes. First john 520 states profoundly. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we may know him who is true, and we are in Him who is true in his son Jesus Christ, who is the true God and eternal life. My dear friends, we can honestly,
can we honestly? Can we honestly, tonight, or anytime deny that reveal truth that credentials of Jesus of Nazareth are authentic and overwhelming. The prophets of old predicted His coming predictions he faithfully fulfilled in my new details, our Heavenly Father confirmed his relationship to him as his son, his miraculous works affirmed his power. The Holy Spirit clarifies this truth to which the apostles and then you test them and testify powerfully. Let me emphasize that God is in reality Jesus, man, gods have been numerous throughout history. But this is the first and only to god man, Jesus Christ. If we ask a very serious question, why did Christ Jesus come if
he were in your profit, the world did not need more prophets, priests, books, or miracle workers, the God of heaven gives the answer you will call his name Jesus, because he would save His people from their sins, Jesus Christ Himself, came to save you and me from eternal death, in hell to eternal life in heaven. He loves you as I love you. And far more. We like to say to you what he declared, I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Listen to his declaration, for the Son of Man has come to seek and to say that which was lost, since God's word states All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, all of us become the object of God's concern. Jesus come
seeking you and me. And one thing to give you and me eternal life, the full payment for sin is death. Thus he takes that upon himself, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, a secret is revealed. When we hear john the baptist evaluation of Jesus, Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
I so, and they record that this is the Son of God, how you ask, by substitution, he took our place, the first Adam Porter, battle, And last, but now the second Adam fought that battle and won, that tragedy of the cross becomes the triumph of the crucified. Why did the ancient Jews have blood sacrifices? Why even the core end suggests that encourages that because without sharing your blood, there is no remission of sin. Isn't it fantastic? God demands good works as a result of salvation, not to obtain salvation. You don't have to go to a holy city, Jerusalem, Varanasi, Mecca, although they are too small, to contain the majesty of God. ceremonial cleansing can wash the stain, but
never a heart full of sin. God is not impressed with our fastings or prayers. These promotes self righteousness. God loves you and wants to save you and me by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that anyone believing in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Leanna who
Michaela Coleman, Yeoman V, belt tycoon,
Amen. Thank you very much.
We are grateful to Mr. Suresh for his 49 minutes and 15 seconds. Some impeccable timing, you want to take a deep breath for a moment or two. It's a privilege and one that I did not expect to have and one that I'm delighted to have
to welcome to the Royal Albert Hall tonight. And to listen for the next 15 minutes to the initial presentation from Mr. Hoffman do that.
I love, love, love.
Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim.
well acumen Wally mapa
de la salle de Palma. de.
speaker, my dear brothers and sisters,
is Jesus God
can very easily be solved by asking a counter question.
Did Jesus claim to be God?
Did he say I am God? Did he worship Me?
And believe me, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen,
there is not a single an equivocal statement
in any of the 66 books
of the Bible, or the 7373 of the Roman Catholics,
where Jesus is and God, or where he says, wish,
I would have been very happy to hear
Jesus then from the lips of Jesus, this simple, straightforward, explicit statement. I am God, I worship
because I as a Muslim, and we Muslims as a whole. We believe that Jesus Christ was one of the mightiest messengers of God. We believe in his miraculous birth, we believe that he was the Messiah.
And we believe that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and he was born blind in the lepers by God's permission.
This is really the only point of real difference between the Muslim and the Christian is the divinity of Christ. And for that, I say that our brother has not used a single statement from the lips of Jesus, saying, I am God overshadowing why he walked this earth, He never made such a statement.
Of course, they have a chance
of coming back, and perhaps he might be able to point out to me in case he had overlooked it, the nearest he came to that was a quotation from the book of Revelation,
where it is supposed to be the words of Jesus, when He says, I am Alpha and Omega, meaning I'm the first and the last. Not this book of revelation was a dream
was a dream in which John's in the dream he saw a vision in which he saw an image with eyes inside and eyes outside and horns with eyes on it. All this is a man, if he eats too much, he gets that type of experiences.
But while Jesus walked this earth,
we will analyze what he actually said and what he did.
Now the idea of the Holy Trinity
in which the Christian the bulk of Christians, including the Anglican Church, Roman Catholics, Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, almost as a whole.
They believe in this thing called the Holy Trinity. In the Christian Catechism
of the churches, they say, I'm quoting
that the Father is God. The son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. But they are not three Gods but one God.
This is the father is almighty, the son is almighty and the Holy Ghost is almighty, but they are not three Almighty is well known almighty.
If it continues, I'm quoting the Catechism says the father is a person, the son is a person and the Holy Ghost is a person, but they are not 3% but 1%.
I'm asking What language is that? Is that English? It sounds English, but this is not English.
person, Person person, but not 3%. But one person.
So what language is that? What is that person in your language? English people tell me you Americanized English man. Tell me what is a person in your language? If you and your two other brothers are identical triplets,
we can make the difference between the three of you you're all identical.
If one of you commit murder, I'm asking can we hang the other?
You say no. So why not? Your look alike.
So he tells me No, he's a different
One person, what makes him a different person it is his personality.
He's the personality is different is different. And when you say the Christian says in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, I say you have three distinct mental pictures in your mind.
As a father, you don't think of the sun. When you say the sun, you know, think of the Holy Ghost, are you?
Yeah, and these three pictures, you can never superimpose on page one, they'll ever be three in your mind, unless the mind is diseased. You said these three ICS one, the three will ever remain free.
Now, as far as the Muslim is concerned,
believing that any human being any human beings God are waiting with God. It is an act of God.
Whether it's a Hindu idea of a God incarnate
or whether it is a Christian idea of God incarnate God becoming a man, the Holy Quran says, luck for Allah Zenith Hello in Allahumma Subramanian said, Whosoever says that Jesus Christ, the son of Mary's god, they're making coffee is an act of blessing is treason against God. Rockpile and mercy but Christ said you have an Israeli Israel, Allah worship Allah rapira Boone, who is my Lord and your Lord, in whom he Kabila, whoever will associate anyone with ALLAH haka, daramola the agenda and Levin McDonald harappa, Heaven will be forbidden for them.
Not in the fire of hell will be that will in place, mamani Solomon in Milan, and for the longest that we know went to hell.
And Jesus Christ.
He is speaking about the Father in heaven.
He's your father and my father. Again and again. In the Gospel of St. Matthews, you can start taking stuff from chapter one, verse one, you will come across this phrase, your father, die, Father, your father, die Father 13 times before the first time he says My father is an amazing situation.
The 13 times the man is telling you that God Almighty He is the father, everybody, metaphorically, He is the Creator sustainer evolver cherisher of everybody. He is the father of everybody, but physically, he does not be gay.
because music is an animal act.
It belongs to the lower animal functions of sex. And we will not attribute such a quality to God, that God be God a son.
Though the Christians keep on repeating the words, Son of God, Son of God, Son of God says What about Adam? How many sons as they got
the bulk of Christian then we'll tell you one.
I said, you know, reading your Bible, you don't read your Bible properly.
You know, God has got sons by the tongue in the Bible,
by the tongue turns the old Museum of wainting tongues. Genesis chapter six, verse three, it says in the sons of God for the daughters of men, that they were gay, and they took them to wipe all that they chose. And when the sons of God came in into the daughters of men in Basildon to them, they became great men of all old men of renown. In the book of Exodus, God says, His right is my son, even my firstborn in the book of Jeremiah says, He flame is my son, even my first one. In the New Testament, we are told as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. every Tom, Dick and Harry, if you follow the will and plan of God, you are a godly person in the language of the
Jews. In the idiom of the Jews, he says, Son of God, meaning a righteous person.
Jesus is not like that is the button, not me?
Some asking, please explain to me, I'm asking the English speaking people. Please explain to me, what are you trying to emphasize? When you tell me he's gotten not made? What are you really trying to tell me?
And believe me, no Christian in 40 years has been able to open his mouth to tell me what it means. It had to be an American
show. It had to be an American. He said, it means sired by God.
No, no, you asked me what it means. I'm telling you what it means not if I believe that God fired a son.
So this is Jesus Christ either. Now, this to the Muslim is a blasphemy to say that Jesus is God.
But there is another blasphemy from the Christian point of view.
You see the Christian, the Orthodox Christians, the the Anglican Christians, the Methodists, and all the Roman Catholics, they all believe in the Holy Trinity. And they say that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.
You'll never hear the word is in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, you'll never hear in the name of the Holy Ghost and the Son and the father never will never hear in the name of the Son, and the Holy Ghost and the father. It must ever be
in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, he is always the second person of the Trinity.
If anybody in Christian them,
says that Jesus is the Father, it is a heresy in the Christian church.
From the Muslim point of view, attributing divinity to any created thing is perfect. But from the Christian point of view,
from the church's point of view, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran and all, if anybody says has the temerity to say that Jesus is the Father,
it is an ancient heresy, which was condemned an extra extra faith
by the Roman Catholic Church over 1000 years ago, they got rid of it. Will you say, and our brother shrewish, my brother shows, I don't know why he hid the fact that he actually believes that Jesus is the Father, in his book,
The liberated Christian,
in case he has forgotten it might not have heard it alone. I brought it along with me, the liberated Christian
liberated Palestine, I beg your pardon. With the Star of David in the background. I don't know who liberated from the Jews are liberated from what liberated Christian. He says, I'm quoting from page 80.
The most loving Heavenly Father,
I thank you, for the miracles you have done in my life.
The greatest miracle miracle of all was that you will love me enough to die for me who the father died for him.
And this is in church history.
As master of divinity, brother Satoshi will be able to confirm is an ancient heresy, which is called peppering pessimism or Manichaean ism, or civilian ism. You don't have to worry about these two yard long terms. But this is in church history. It had been extirpated, some 1000 years ago, but he is the father. But Jesus contradicts this statement. He says, Call no man your father on Earth.
For there is only one who is your father, which art in heaven. Matthew, chapter 23, verse nine.
Jesus is a man walking this, which Peter testifies in the book of Acts, chapter two, verse 22. He says, He men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man, a fruit of boredom, Are you a man by miracles and wonders in science, which God did by him? He didn't do it. God did by him. He was using Jesus, God Almighty was using Jesus, which God did by him in the midst of you, which you yourself also know. So he is not the father.
He says to the Jews,
they have neither heard his voice, the voice of God, at anytime
you have not heard the voice of God anytime, nor seen his shape or form.
At any time, the Jews were seeing Jesus and they're listening to him. They didn't hearken to the message. But they were listening to him. They were not deaf, or the Jews. They were reacting to his message. They were listening. They were hearing and they were seeing and they wanted to stone him and he's to get out of the way is to run away he's to hide. They were seeing his form. And this is to disappear, not into thin air, but hiding away running away according to the Bible.
So he could not be the father, and he could not be that God.
The Bible uses test
what what God is not
what God is not like in Islamic
The Quran also we are given what God is not lay second is the shape, that God is not like anything you can think or imagine anything you think or imagine is not him.
We are given some 99 attributes of God that is kind is merciful, his just his holy and on and on 99 but there are certain things that he is not this is not that is not that
the Bible also gives us what God is not.
It says in the book of Job, chapter 25, verse four to six said How then can men be justified with God? How can you compare any human being with God?
How can he be clean, that is born of a woman?
Anyone that is born of a woman
is not good enough to be compared with God? Anyone? Whether it's a Moses or Jesus or Muhammad, Rama or Krishna, Buddha, anyone that a woman can is for nine months can never be your god that says, The Bible says,
when you when the moon is not bright, and the stars are impure, in your sight, in the sight of God, what is
what is it nothing?
How much less is man?
You see, the Christians are thinking that look, Jesus is born for women, no doubt, but he was born miraculous which we agree. So that makes him something supernatural because he was born miraculously.
So God Almighty in this book, The Christian Bible
he says how much less is man?
If the sun and the moon and the stars are nothing in sight what is mad you and I What are you what are we? How much less is man who is but a magnet?
You know it's a magnet. You people living in concrete jungles. You don't know what mega is? You know magnet.
I won't decide. You better look at the dictionary Oxford dictionary.
mega those wombs, you know that
goes on when you're human done. maggots. You and I according to this book of God, you are nothing more than a maggot.
And the Son of man who Jesus Christ.
explicit statement in case you have some thing at the back of your mind that Jesus is an exception. Word Almighty goes out of his way to tell you look, this Jesus of mine is no exception.
And the Son of man asked any Christian who is the Son of Man, at three times in the New Testament, Jesus Christ is described as the Son of Man, the Son of Man, Son of Man is the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests but the Son of Man hasn't got a place to rest his head and the Son of Man, as a sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the earth, social the Son of Man at three times 13 times his address as the Son of God 13 times, but 83 times 17 times, son of man, son of man, son of man and ask any Christian missionary who is the Son of Man is that Jesus
is the Son of man who is in your womb. womb.
We are maggots.
It was degree than a womb.
In other words, don't make a mistake. Anyone that is born of a woman in the Bible tells us in the Gospel of St. Luke chapter two, verse 21. When he was eight days old, he was circumcised.
God getting circumcised.
Please, please, we must heed the advice given at the beginning that there should be no clapping for this at the end of the talk. If you're given applause accepted for both parties, please.
When he was eight days old, he was circumcised and named Jesus by the angel when he was in his mother's womb.
Who was in his mother's womb, Jesus.
How did we come up from there? like you and me? Who God? I'm asking if you are a nurse, you can imagine any situation. If you were a nurse 2000 years ago in this table helping Mary when she's delivering the child. Can you for one moment think that that helpless little creature with all the food and the muck, your God, your Jehovah, your Allah,
the human mind, it returns the idea that this puny little creature which made his mother impure for 40 days.
That's what the Bible says she had to be purified out of 40 days what made her impure the birth of a holy God making her impure is a human child. like you and me. It made me
In beautiful 40 days,
she carried him for nine months.
The Anglicans in England today, they are a little more reasonable than the evangelist. There was a shock survey of Anglican bishops
in June last year, yeah, in the UK. And more than half of England's bishops say, Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was born. No more. You don't have to believe
if your salvation and mine dependent upon that,
because your salvation if you are a Christian, the Christian believes that Jesus must die as a god.
Because one man can carry the sins of the world. If he died on the cross, we say they didn't kill him, and they didn't crucify me prove the point. In July here, we will not go into that. But the Christian must believe that Jesus must die as a God and not as a man.
Because one man can carry the sins of the world.
So God died. You're asking, you believe that God died. You say he's eternally mortal.
And he died. So once he dies, what happens? His creation, you know, the power power, where it's coming from this power that's coming into this hole here. The substation with the hip station, if they switch it up there, what can you do with all your switches?
In your in darkness, if God Almighty if his life is extinguished?
Who runs his universe? Who kept it going? For three days and three nights he was away in the tomb as the Christian the dead for three days and three nights for three days and three nights? Who was controlling the universe? Who?
I say, Jesus Christ never claimed at any time, I am God, or worshipping. On the contrary, he said,
My father is greater than
he said, My father is greater than all. john chapter 20, verse 29. He said, I can have my own self do nothing.
JOHN, chapter five, verse 30, he said, I can do nothing. God can do everything, anything
a brother shadow saying that God can become a man.
He can do anything. I say, No, he can't do anything.
Am I limiting? God says no.
I am telling you to challenge people to prove to me that God Almighty, He can create another board. He is uncreated. He can create another creator. He is eternal. From the beginning, which has new beginning, now he can create another equal to him.
As soon as he creates somebody he's created.
That means he can create an uncreated
This is common sense. He can create another god.
Can you make another father?
there'll be two fathers, then you can make a dozen fathers country. So my Hindu cousins are more consistent. They believe in millions of God, anything's God. Everything is God, he's more consistent is more reasonable. Why are you so unreasonable? You only make one exception? Why shouldn't we have more Gods more sons? Physical sons?
No, he says, ha. And further. He can't throw me out of his kingdom.
This God Almighty.
Can you throw you out of his kingdom out of his dominion? Is there a place outside his dominion where he can throw you out? Can he
imagine him throwing you out. throw you out. He can obliterate you. Yes, he can finish you up. Yes. But he can throw you out of his dominion out of his ruling.
Now that doesn't mean he's Limited is how powerful he is. His dominion extends of the heavens and the earth, everywhere, whatever you can imagine and beyond. So we can throw you
see God Almighty does, he can do anything. But what he does are godly things. God must do godly things. He doesn't do monkey tricks.
Look, I don't expect brother to do monkey tricks. Nobody expect me to do monkey tricks here.
A man can so many 1000 miles away from Africa. Another brother can so many 1000 miles from America to do monkey tricks. What do you expect us to do? Because somebody told you that you know deedat and the shadow show in
the dance in front of the state. Would you believe it?
People believe you see, we don't expect these people, this godly people to come along and do you know, jiving here.
God Almighty, He does godly things. He doesn't ungodly things.
He says further Jesus.
He said, I with the finger of God cast out devils. Luke chapter 11, verse 20, he says, I cast out devils by the Spirit of God. Matthew, chapter 12, verse 28, he says, the power, the power we're talking about, he had power to do this and he had power to forgive sin.
asked him, he says, All power is given unto me is not mine, is given to me by who by the Father in heaven, God Almighty gave him the power, a General Power of Attorney, what do you want? I gave it to you. And he gave him the power to heal the blind the lepers and quicken the dead and kill those 2000 pigs according to the Bible, and bring up the fig tree from his very roots. And still in the storm. Where did he get the power from?
So glory to God and somebody rightly remarked in the New Testament, when he performed the miracle, he said, glory to God for giving such powers and to men. This is it. Glory goes to God for giving such powers and to men, not to the man to God.
Jesus says, My brother says in the Quran, he said that he knew he knows the time of the coming of the hour of judgment. I think he has misread the Quran. The Quran is here, you can check it up. I would like to see when he says he knows about says he knows. The Bible contradicts that. The Holy Bible, it says,
But of that day, and that hour, no, what no man?
No, not the angels, not neither the son, but the Father in heaven. In other words, my knowledge, I'm not like God, in my power. I'm not like
Mark, chapter 13, verse 32.
The big question remains, where does he say I am God? Or where he says worship Me? Or where does he say that? I am God Almighty, are one in the same thing.
Is there a single Christian who can give me a verse that me and God Almighty are one in the same thing?
Is there a Christian in this vast audience? Who can give me
What does it say? JOHN 14, what does he says that I am?
Right. JOHN? No, I the reference is incorrect. No, the reference is not 14. Six, the reference is the condition is right.
I and my Father our
the quotation is correct. But it is john chapter 10. Verse 30.
Please the Silence please.
The reference is john chapter 10, verse 30. Now, you know, if I ask,
you will have the chance to ask questions, my dear brothers.
Please sit down.
Would you please sit down? I'm sorry. We're gonna take questions later. We're not having interruptions. Now. Please, would you sit down there? Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr.
Silence please. I am, I am reading from my head. And my brother Sharon just confirmed it that it is john chapter 10, verse 30.
Now the context, you see in 14 years, for 40 years, I have been talking to people.
And when this VS code and that Jesus said, I and My Father are One,
the verses there in the Bible, you can't contradict that. I'm asking what is the context?
And believe me, in 40 years, I have not come across a single learned man of Christian than a single man in 40 years. Who could give me the context. Yeah, you can open the book. Yes, by opening the book, but no man in my life. 40 years now, no Christian with the name could give me the context.
You have to open the book. without opening the book, you'll never be able to do the context. Now. Let me give you the context.
The context is worth studying proverbs 23
it says Jesus walked in Solomon's porch in the temple of Jerusalem. Then came the Jews around about him means they surrounded him and said, How long does that make us to doubt? If that be the case tell us plainly that religion that is talking ambiguously is not putting for this claim clear enough. That's a charged a false charge. Because we know he didn't speak ambiguously he put for this claim that he is the Christ. He's the Messiah. But the Jews want to pick up a fight. They didn't like his preaching. him calling them new generation of vipers, you invited supporters, You wicked and adulterous generation, you fools, you snakes. Would you like to hear people addressing you like
that? And the Jews were not a people to forget in a hurry.
So they find the man alone, they surround him brandishing finger in his face. Tell us, why don't you tell us they want to pick up a fight with him so they can make work themselves into a frenzy and give him a good bashing. Get their own back. So Jesus says, I told you and you believe not the work that I do in my father's name, they be witness of me, my sheep, hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me, and are you into them eternal life. And they shall never perish, said my father, which gave me is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand.
Today was 29, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand was 30. I and My Father are one in this to see that once the man has accepted fate he remains in faith is the teacher sees to see to that as well as God Almighty sees to that in purpose, we are one.
But the Jews were looking for trouble. And if you're looking for trouble if you don't have to go very far, you get it around the corner.
So they picked up stones again to stone him.
So Jesus says many good works I showed you from my father for which of those works with the stone me. So they say for a good work. restante not bad for blasphemy. Because that Darwinian man makers that serve a God, you are a man you claiming to be God.
There's another false charge. First false charge was that he was talking ambiguously. Now another false charge that you're claiming to be God
that the Jews alleged the Christian agree with the Jews. They said he did make such a claim, but he was entitled to it.
Let us hear what Jesus says.
The juicy he blushing the Christians say he did but it is no blasphemy because he was entitled to what does Jesus say? He says, Is it not written in your law? Was 31? Is it 32? Is it not written in your law? noggins the Torah, I said, We are God's you am God. If he God Almighty call them gods, and to whom the Word of God came mean the prophets are called gods in our language, man.
The prophets, God Almighty speaks to Moses, and it says, Behold, I have made you a god to Pharaoh, and around that brother shall be that Prophet. In the book of Psalms 82nd. Sam, we're six is, ye are gods and all of you are the children of the Most High. That's the genius of the Jewish language. That when a person is called God is not God. Like in two Corinthians four, four, the Bible says, and the devil is the god of this world is a God, the devil shaitan. No, this is your name. It just means he's in control. So you say is God, Moses is God to Pharaoh, and you Jews are called gods. That is the genius of the Jewish language.
You can see confer divinity on that said, is it noted in your law? I said, Yeah, God's if he called them gods, and the scripture cannot be broken means you can contradict me. See of him, the father of sanctified and sent him to the world that are blasphemous, because I said, I'm the son of God, which is nothing man. God has got sons by the cannons in our community in our language. Why are you trying to find fault with me when I'm only saying I'm the son of God?
when others are called gods.
statement, brother shall receive a two from my book, What is his name? I took the trouble to give him all my books. All the ammunition I have, I sent it to him he asked for it. I sent everything all that I have written, everything. All the facts are given in black and white and now you can work from this
is easier to answer once you have it in black and white before you know my arguments beforehand. I was not afraid, because I know none of these arguments can really be intellectually can be contradicted.
God Almighty says in the Quran now another test is given some almasi hope no Mariama ihlara Zhu mu certainly Messiah, Jesus son of Mary is no more than an apostle. God Allah Rasul. Many were the messengers that passed away before him
who's in the car, and his mother was a virtuous woman, a saintly woman,
Tana kulani, Tom and the boat at food.
So, what's exceptional about that? We only don't know. This is in reference to the idea that there are gods are supernatural, the Roman Catholic called Mary the mother of God.
Mary is the mother of God, Jesus is the Son of God. And as God as our brother shows, as well as many Christians believe that He is God in human form, he is God incarnate. So if they are such godly people and they
so is their food, that means they are a call of nature.
If you eat, you must look for the pilot sooner or later Oh, look for the bush rocks, it can be helped.
God Almighty doesn't tell you in those words, but listen to what he says
telefonu, by Ginola Himalaya to see how we make our science clear to you that they both add food,
the implications of eating food in Zoo see how we make our sense clear to you soon. Have another look.
Look, have another look. How they have deviated from the path
going away from the two part, attributing the garden animal nature that he's like a man we are made in His image. What image this image, this is the monkey image.
We are all glorified monkeys. Some look like chimpanzees, some like baboon, some like some gorillas, all of us. We are all glorified monkeys. Is that the image God is talking about?
And the Christian says yes. Christian says yes. I said God said in the book of Genesis, quoted by Dr. Suresh, he said, and God said, Let there be light.
I said Did he say that with his mouth? He said yes.
Did he utter the words? He said yes. So what is better now? Is it Yes. So if he's got a mouth, you must have teeth as well.
Can you imagine a toothless God? God
says no he must have teeth.
Then as it is,
then he must have a larynx in the lungs mysterious then he's gonna top top top, Sun Moon stars,
creation is talking talking talking talking his mouth goes dry. So he must need liquid to lubricate. If this type of mouth he has, he must need some lubrication.
So once that lubrication goes in, there must be an outlet as well. Now.
Can you imagine what are you bringing God down to an anthro form of a conception God is like a man. Then talking about fluval God said, it says Elohim in the first chapter of Genesis chapter was three Elohim in Hebrew Elohim, the god
I said you know Elohim is a plural Yes.
My adipogenesis Yes, plural. There are two types of plurals in Hebrew and Arabic, you confirm and you will as well. Singular plural and
singular, dual and plural Yes, Arabic as well as Hebrew. But in, in every Bible, there are 100 different versions. The word is Elohim. Gods.
I haven't seen a single Bible yet, which is God's said, Let there be light. It should be God's not God. Elohim says what is his aim?
As the Jew as the error, but if it doesn't suit us, we ignore in is a plural of respect. In Hebrew. In Arabic, we have two types of rules same like Hebrew, Allah says in the Quran, in non masala vichara or in non hula Hafiz. It is we who have sent down the revelation and it is for us to protect it as any Muslim that most simplest of us how many gods are there. He says one, then who is is as Who is this week,
new era in 1400 years has pointed a finger at the Muslim
telling them that you are worshipping more than one God. When the Quran says poo Allahu Ahad says Allah The one and only then no Arab questions the Muslim to say, Look who is this? Who is this?
Why don't you ask us? Why don't you ask a brother? Who is is we who are this is boonchu No. You speak Arabic, Arabic is your language you know we have two types of plurals, plural numbers.
1400 years new added his question as I would like Dr. Shoulders to question me to say, look, there are supposed to be more than one word in the Quran.
I like to hear that from me. I said these are two types of
fluid of the spec pool of numbers. This is Hebrew, this is Arabic.
So Jesus at
Jesus asked his mother,
and the Bible says, The Son of Man came Son of man again, son of man, Jesus came eating and drinking. And they say, behold, a man gluttonous in a window.
This Jesus words of Jesus, that this is what the people are saying that you are a gluttonous eater. And a wine bibber Matthew chapter 11, verse 19, and Luke chapter seven, verse 34.
What then makes him God, His birth, he was born without a human father, so he must have a father. So his father is God.
The Quran answers that, really simply in a masala Isa, in the law, e commerce Allah, Adama the similitude of the example of Jesus in the sight of God is like that of Adam halaqa, human to Robin, He created him from dust, so mattala Allah who can fire me said Be and he was. So if Jesus is God, and the veritable Son of God, because he had no earthly father, then Adam has a greater God, because he had no father, no mother.
simple, basic, common sense. Do you stand stand to reason? If Jesus had no father that makes him God? Then Adam is a greater God, no father, no mother. But ah, you said, you see, Adam was created from the past. And Jesus was born a virgin.
Hmm. So my brother, he already quoted Melchizedek Yes, Melchizedek, the high priests of Solomon.
Hebrews chapter seven, verses one and three.
It says, For this major city, in the Bible, in your Bible, open it. Hebrews chapter seven, verse one and three,
for this Melchizedek king of salam, salam, Islam salam, please have the most high God, please, without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days nor end of life.
Who is that is not the only one who is without beginning. Without father and mother is God whose lives eternally is gone. But he was a high priest, and Abraham was giving tights, taxes, taxes, religious taxes, he was giving to this man.
No father, no mother, Jesus had a mother no father, so magic is greater than him.
Jesus had a beginning in the stable, and he had an apparent in
this man new beginning new in who is greater who is Greater Manchester. So why don't you worship him? He's deserves to be worshipped as God Almighty if at all. This high priest of Salah Salah?
No, I stand to reason.
This man Jesus, he cries to God
supposed to be on the cross. Matthew chapter 27 was 46. He says La la la sebata. Which means My God, my God, why has the forsaken? Who is he crying to himself, putting up an act, dramatizing himself that he's dying nicely, oh my God, my God while you let me down. He is gone. How can he let himself down?
And again in Mark chapter 15, verse 34, saying,
Who is he crying to? He's crying to Allah. Li Li, Allah, Allah. Look, I'm asking the Jehovah's Witnesses. They have the among the Christians. You know, they go and harass people. jawas witnesses. I'm asking them when Jesus said li li lava Sebastiani. I'm asking, does this sound to you like Jehovah, Jehovah Allah savani
he says no. He says no. So listen again, Elijah.
Laila Sabatini Does that sound like a bad
father in Hebrew? No, listen Allah Allah Allah Masha botany in Hebrew, Allah, Allah Allah Mata written in Arabic, some similar he is there in the book of Revelation chapter 19. You read about john the disciples his vision and in the vision here the angels in heaven singing Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah. And when the Christian goes into ecstasy in my country they shall
ask you what is Allah?
Know what is alegria Jah is evocative, an exclamation in Arabic and Hebrew.
We begin with an explanation.
Xiahe my brother,
or my mother, Allah, Allah.
The Westerner he ends with an exclamation such as up star exclamation mark.
exclamation mark. That's a Western. That's his system, the genius of his language. So Allah
Allahu, Allahu Allah.
worship and praise. Well, he is Allah, Allahu la de la ilaha illa. Who is Allah besides when there is no other God? Allah Malik the king, Allah could use the Holy One As salam, the source of peace and perfection. He is God, not a child born in this table.
What makes him God, I want somebody tell me this, what is his birth? His miracles, his life back to Lazarus at all? Did he know? He says, When before calling Lazarus out? You know, he says, Oh, my father, he looks up towards heaven. This is my father or my father. I know that that has hurt me. And I know that that hears me Always. Always whatever I'm asking, you're giving it to me, you are doing the work. And I know that that hears me always. But because of the people that stood by this superstitious credulous people, they are going to say that I gave life to the dead, they will say that I am God. For that reason. I'm speaking to you loudly. Prior to that he was growling in the
spirit. groaning Jesus wept. groaning what groaning? No, he was pouring out his heart God, my friend Lazarus is dead. Oh my lord, bring him back from the day. And God Almighty associate. Go ahead and ask what you want, and you get it. So now he's gonna call Lazarus out. So is it Oh, my father, I know that that has heard me and I know that that hears me always. But because of the people that stood by I said it loudly audibly, that they may believe that that was sent to me. He says, He that is sent is not greater than the one that sent him.
I can have my own cell, not in the woody here or not mine. But the father that sent me he had given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak, even as the Father has sent me, so I speak. That is not a single unequivocal statement. In any version of the Bible, who Jesus is. And God already says worship. There is not a single explicit statement. And every vocal statement of plain simple statement there isn't. If there is, we Muslims will have no hesitation in accepting. Simply because we know that Jesus Christ as one of the mightiest messengers of God, he would never lie.
The questions being asked either he was a liar, he generally the Christians, he must be a liar or a lunatic or God. Why should you make such propositions? Why cannot demand be a mighty messenger of God? Why should he be a liar or a lunatic? Again and again in Christian literature evangelist they say either is a liar or an imposter is the opposite opposite of liar.
imposter, what is God is the opposite of God. imposter, is the opposite of God lunatic? No, what is the antonym for God? Is that, how can you say this or that this or that? Why can't he be what he claims to be that he is a messenger and as such, follow Him as He is not of me, who does not take his cross and follow me. Take up your cross and follow me. If you follow me, you will get eaten alive. Listen to him, You hearken to him what he says what he teaches.
And that is salvation. If you don't do that, Verily, verily, I say unto you, except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees. You shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. There is no heaven for you, unless you are better than the Jew and you can be better than the Jews by not keeping the laws and the commandments. Listen to him, follow Him, and if you follow Him, you can't help being a Muslim was sort of Darwin and hamdulillahi Rabbil aalameen
Thank you very much, Mr. vitta.
Now what we're going to do at this point in time
is for those.
And I realized what a terrible trial it is a patience just a whole back when you, you really want to get behind one speaker or another. But I do want to thank you for that patience. And for making this debate, a debate and not a confrontation. What we'd like to offer you the chance of doing that is to have your own part in this now it is impossible to offer to five and a half 1000 people the right to participate in a debate by leaving your seat in any form. So what we're going to suggest is this, I'm going to be asking the two speakers in just a moment to speak for a maximum of eight minutes each in rebuttal of each other's position.
We are then
going to take questions. And if there is a question you would like to ask if you could phrase it as courteously as possible. And if you would write your question on a piece of paper, and pass it to your left, until it reaches the aisle. And if you are at the last seat, right next to the aisle, you'll collect the questions that come from your row, hold them in your hand and stewards, when people have had a chance to. To do that, will you walk down the aisle and collect the questions? Then stewards you want to bring those questions down to the rear?
behind me here, right then to the rear,
where you will be met by a box or by someone holding a box who will collect the questions they will then be brought in here and drawn impartially will shuffle them up. And if you're fortunate enough to have your question, then that will be asked.
We're gonna ask you to do that. In just one moment.
We're going to also say this,
please do not try to leave your seat or come forward. If you want to have a quiet wriggle now is your opportunity to do it. In about 15 seconds. I'm going to ask Dr. Shi rush to begin his reply.
So a moment of silence. You can start writing your questions. Please don't leave your seat just post them to your left.
Have a good Wriggle, get rid of any of the cramps or problems that way.
Now may I ask you for silence?
Can we have complete quiet grateful
for your courtesy and for your appreciation and respect of Dr. Shu rush? Can I ask him if he would come and make his reply please to what Mr. Data said thank you
what a delightful buncha and what a joy it is to stand before you and make replies to my friend, Mr. Era
concerning the statement about Jesus saying he was God,
I first call your attention to john 1313. You call me teacher and Lord, and rightly so, for that is what I am.
if the Queen of England walks in here,
she does not have to tell you she is the queen.
Jesus did not have to tell you every time he did something he was God.
When he answered Philip, he said you say show us the Father. It's sufficient. I have been with you so long.
And you don't know.
He who has seen me has seen the Father.
Our brother quoted another verse, which has the same
As to our brothers, remarks about the book of Revelation,
did not the Prophet and the prophets have also dreams?
Did not God reveal himself to them in dreams and visions, he speaks through visions and dreams. And it does not come because your stomach is full or empty. But God chooses to do so. And if he chooses to do so, it is. So
I also like to remind you,
of something else.
As far as the Trinity is concerned, I think the problem with our Muslim friends is that they don't realize we are just as much against the trinity of the days of the Arab worlds coming into historical position, as they are, you see, there was a group of heretics who from paganism came to Christianity. And they thought of Mary as the Queen of Heaven, God married her and Jesus was born. For God's sake, Get this through your mind. Jesus was not the Son of God, as a man who was born through a sexual experience. It is a spiritual title, he came because he loves you.
Be patient to the end place. The Marianas therefore, are just as wrong as others are wrong. Our faith in the Trinity is in God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Doesn't it amaze you that in the 99, excellent names of God in the Quran, not one is love. Not one is father. And we are not given the idea that God is a dictator, and we are to be his slaves. But God is a father, who wants you and me and the whole world to be.
please, would you hold on to clapping? Don't clap, please don't disturb us.
How did Marian conceive of the Holy Spirit? Who is the Holy Spirit, an angel called Gabrielle, let me challenge you 75%, of the wonderful core and in my wonderful language of Arabic is from the Bible. And I would urge you to look into the Bible and find out where the sources are, and the blessing of knowing this God who loves you and me, and much like and trying to go from this point to the other and come up, you come by and you say wait a minute, let me show them the right way. For there is a way that seems right onto men, but their way ends in destruction. So you say I will help them, you try to show them the way you push the nose of this one and the tail of the other, but they
keep going back to their old way. So you say I think the only way is either I become an ENT or they become human. Now bear in mind that they cannot become human because they don't have the power. And suppose you have the power to become an adult. Now tell me when you become an adult? Can you show them the better way? Can you show them a certain booster him the right way? And I answer you by saying Not on your life. Because once you become a man, as a man, you become an ENT and once you become an ENT, you end up being just like the elves. Therefore Jesus, God in human flesh came and he kept the man he is man he ate as a man he slept as a man he was tired as a man but he also used the
title, the Son of Man to identify himself with you and me for you answer this question for me. How in the world are you going to pay for your savings? How in the world are you going to be justified? Our brother courtage job and he misquoted the word. The word says very clearly. How can a man be justified that means made right in the sight of God. And nobody can become right in the sight of God without redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God who said I have come that you may have life. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from everything.
that when the angel announced the Holy One to marry that will be born of you will be called the Son. Listen, of the Most High God. Are you telling me the angel was lying?
The Lord was making a mistake. He loves mystery that he loves you and he
leaves with you tonight and says, come on to me. And I will give you a command to be there and be saved. Because salvation is not for the Muslims or the Jews or the others. It's for all of us. God loves us, he became a son, and our son became man, so we as men can become the sons of God, because He cares. As for the statement, my father, his self imposed limitation caused him to say that, and I like to say to you when he said, I am the Father are One, he demonstrated that show evidence, and remember, Please, God of God, and whether the Anglican bishops agree or not, that God be true and every man a liar, they need to repent of their ways and trust the living word of God and experience
revival across this nation, and stop wickedness, violence and turn away from the ways to follow the Lord. For he must train tail he has put all enemies under his feet, listening to
I invite you
to discover the truth, which is God in Christ wants to reconcile the world unto himself, for a true Muslim will become a true Muslim. And the true Christian can become true Christian, when he accepts the gift of God, Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.
as the wonderful truth of God,
the term he asked, is the word bigger. I conclude with a reminder, when organice para Patras is the term as the Greek, which is the only son of god of this kind. In other words, he is the only one of God to came to demonstrate the love of God and no one else. Thank you for the joy of being with you. And may the love of God bring us to Him, who is eternal, eternal God, and in Christ says come, I will give you rest. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you, ma'am. Mr.
Barr, please. Thank you very much, members to do that. We'll make his reply as well. Thank you. So
beginning with john, Chapter 15, verse 30, as quoted by my brother Sharon,
where Jesus in answering Philip, he says, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, which by
reasoning, the Christian thinks that Jesus is the Father. But if we look at it in its context, again, there are a series of misunderstandings from the very word go, Chapter 14 begins begins with a misunderstanding and the misunderstanding of the disciple continues.
Chapter 14, it says,
Jesus is telling his disciples and whether I go, you know, and the way you know, you know where I'm going, and you know how to get there. So the disciples say, Master, we know not whither thou goest and how can we know the way
they misunderstood? Jesus was speaking about spiritual journey. They are thinking of geographical locations, like then the Newcastle, where Southampton, he's talking about God and going to God. So Jesus says, I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. This was too heavy for them. They couldn't follow what he's talking about. So he says, Lord, show us the fire.
And it suffices for us, it will be enough, just show us God, we want to see God with our bodily eyes and that will be our satisfaction enough. In answer to that Jesus says, Philip, you have been with me for so long, you are a Jew.
As a Jew, you have to know better than that. That new man can see God and live. God is not seen at any time. And you been with me for three years, you still haven't understood my mission. You want to see God with the physical eyes, when you can even look at the sun. If you have seen me, you have seen the Father, meaning if you understood me, you will understand what God is. And this is the language of speaking ever an anon he says, seeing they see not hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. This seeing is not physical seeing, if you understood what I am, you would have understood what God is you wouldn't make such a silly request. He is not claiming to be the father.
I would like to know who has heard this verse.
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these 301 Have you heard that before?
Have you heard that? Do you read this in your Bible? Do you? Yes, yes. No, my brother says he does read it. You know, you don't read it in the Bible is not there. It is there. Yes. And amazing. Yes, yes. Four there are 3am coating, first episode of john chapter five, verse seven, where it says first episode of john chapter five, verse seven, where it says for the three that may record in heaven, the Father, the word meaning Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one
is there in your Bible, sir.
Here is the Holy Bible.
You see, this verse I quoted you now is to be found in the Roman Catholic version of the Bible. It is to be found in the authorized King James Version of the Bible is there, but it has not been thrown out of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. As a fabrication, the verse and the Trinity
it is thrown out, it is thrown out as a fabrication. All modern translations, the Bible, do not have that verse anymore. This is thrown out by not by Muslim scholars, Jewish scholars or Hindu scholars, but 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 cooperating denominations, they found that this was a fabrication and other fabrication that without.
similarly, the essential in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and john,
you find essential twice, that Jesus ascended into heaven, Chapter 16, verse 19, and Jesus was taken up into heaven. Luke, chapter 24, verse 51, and Jesus was taken up into heaven. Only two places in the gospels is the ascension mentioned, my brother Kota from the x. The gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john, the world, the ascension is mentioned only in two places. And those two places also in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, there have also been thrown out as fabrications. Yeah.
Revised Standard Version of the Bible.
The the fact that you know, the word father does not occur in the Holy Quran is made a point of, you know, we are given 99 attributes of God Almighty.
But Father is not one of them.
And Father in Arabic is easier than the word Rob is in Arabic means father.
We read again and again the Quran Rabbil aalameen al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil aalameen rub rub rub, Lord cherisher sustainer evolver rub not Abba.
Why not? Because of this misconception there are millions of people on earth who are taking this thing physically that this Father in heaven, B got a son and be getting is an animal act, it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex. So this word is eschewed is taken out, never used simply because there are people like
my brother son
In the book, he quotes his son Salaam Salaam in the book. And Salam says that, you know, after
he came out of the bath and pulled the plug, and the water went out, he said, Now he knows how rain comes about. Somehow.
He says, You see, even Jesus has a bath in heaven. And when he pulls the plug,
you know, all the water comes on, and we have thunderstorms here. And for that, the young man was given a hug and a kiss.
You see that that concept? carries on, you're having an idea that God Almighty also is there somewhere in the heavens doing something similar. So because of this anthropomorphic concepts which have been conveyed in Islam, all these attributes, where you might have some types of sicknesses creeping in as true such words, these are not befitting the majesty of God, that God rejects his son, or his father in heaven, the loving Father, which goes and kills his own son for the sins of mankind. He can't rectify you your mistakes, you commit sin, and he kills his own son. I'm asking is that love? somebody steals, you know, murders your wife, your child, raise your daughter, and now
you can do nothing. You're utterly helpless. So what you do, you go and kill your own son, and you call that love? Center. This is the wrong concept of justice and ethics. You see, if you have the right concept, your behavior will come right. There was a time in America 60% of the people they spoke against pre made premarital sex.
But since 1975, whether Shoshana in his book, you must buy this book, the liberated Palestinian. This is his walking with a girl on each arm.
And a southern belle ash place a satin Bella Bella means a beautiful woman in white. She rose to her house for a weekend. And he goes with her
to her house for a weekend. This is the
finish for the weekend. And the father of the girl is waiting with a gun when he reaches up to the porch is waiting with a gun and Doctor makes a hasty retreat. I said now since then, when you are portraying things morality like that. What happens is that 61% of the people latest statistics in America, they are now in favor of premarital sex. So as a look,
I'm told that religion is Christianity is not a religion, but it is a relationship.
So without this religion, if you don't listen to Jesus is that whosoever looketh upon a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with the ordinance heart. So my dear brothers, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I know there's a vast subject and we can carry on endlessly. But I respect the chairman's notice that my time has expired. Thank you very much indeed.
Now, we're extremely grateful for your keen interest.
Obviously, we're all starting to participate in this because we have well over 200 questions,
what we're going to do
is we're going to pull them,
to pull them behind me.
Now some of these, again, to be written in a language that I'm going to struggle with. And therefore, when that happens, I'm going to pass them to the experts
to translate and answer their questions. I'm also going to try to make sure that the questions are as evenly balanced as possible.
Now, the first question is, and it's addressed to Mr. deedat? Why did Jesus allow Thomas to kneel at his feet? And say to him, my Lord, and my god answer on these questions? At one minute, I will tap you at two minutes I will be on my feet. Thank you. Where did Thomas? Why did Jesus allow Thomas to say My lord, oh my god. Because Thomas, when Jesus went to that upper room, whether for the very first time, Thomas was not there.
And Jesus has demonstrated His disciples that he were the same person eating food broiled fish and honeycomb. And the disciples testified to Thomas. When he comes along and meet Samson, the master was here, he had food with us. So Thomas's except I put my finger into the print of the nails and put my hand into sight. I will not believe that Jesus is physically he was with us that he was if they told him that he was a spirit, a ghost and spoke, he will, I believe, because people believed in spooks and ghosts those days, far more readily than anything else. So Jesus, when he
comes along the second time to the upper room. Thomas is there. And he tells Thomas reach hidden by hand, which either their finger and Behold my hands and put your hand into my side, and don't be faithless. So Thomas realizes that Doubting Thomas that he was what he was that all the disciples are testifying that the master was there that he's alive. And he's eating proficient honeycomb, and he couldn't believe he wanted to do this. And he wanted to do that. So come on, do it now and see, so he realizes that he was a fool. So he says, Mike, Lord, my God, what he was calling Jesus is God and God, no, this is an explanation which people do when you are caught out as a my god is amiss, oh
my god, how could you quote me a Quran? This verse is not in the Quran. Oh, my God, you I mean, and he says, My God, no, this is a figure of speech and expression.
The next question, the next question is prefaced In the name of Allah? Did Jesus pray? If so, why does an all perfect claim by that's a claim by Christians? The questioner says, Why does an old Perfect guard need to pray? And to who did Jesus pray?
beloved friends, how lovely to be with you. And I'd like to say to our brother, I trust we will have another occasion to share the same platform together. And perhaps I could even suggest a topic, like he suggests is the topic.
The answer to the question.
One of the difficulties apparently some of you are having is your God is too small.
God is big enough to come down to say to you, I love you. Can you understand that much, God is love. And as such, he comes in the form of a man, a perfect man attack, conquering everything, never sinning. And as men representing you, he was praying to the Heavenly Father. Remember, as he was mentioning about while Jesus was on the cross car, he was saying, he really he really was shocked, and I'm sure you recognize he was using the Arabic but Jesus was not speaking Arabic. He was saying simply, oh, my God, my God, why did you forsake me? And when Jesus died, God does not die. His body died. He forever lives. Please remember that. So he was speaking to the Heavenly Father.
I'm afraid there are those supplementaries because I'm giving 300 at the same time. So we are going to continue with the next question.
I'm going to, I'm going to ask for quiet.
I am going to ask for quiet Sir, you will be ejected from this meeting.
If the person to whom the question is addressed does not answer the question, then it is for him a defect and an advantage to his opponent.
Therefore, we will not address ourselves to those kinds of issues. The next question is from Mr. deedat. a quotation I am the Father are one. In the Greek the word one is neuter, denoting one in essence, and one in nature, not just one in purpose. Mr. Grant, would you like to comment?
This one in Greek? Is he in him?
Now, the same word hin is used in john chapter 17. With Jesus and speaking to God Almighty, He says, I am one with you and you with me and the disciples with me, I Indian cow in me We are all one hand, same hand. So now if this one makes one, in that bodily form like a sausage, one becomes like a sausage with God, or Jesus becomes one with God as a sausage because this is one means one. Like Adam and Eve The Bible says that they train shall be one flesh, one sausage, no in purpose, same word in Greek him the same word in Greek hen for the disciples and
Including Thomas and and Judas, all of them. We are one with you I with you, God Almighty and you with me, that one with me and I'm in them. Now that oneness I'm asking what oneness say any increase? Does it mean that they all become a sausage? All the 12 disciples and the traitor Judas, and with God and Jesus become a sausage? No, this one is in purpose and not in body or power or omnipotent, omniscient.
What do you mean by the statement? Jesus is son of God? The questioner wants to say with my full respect, do you mean Jesus is direct Son of God, Son of the God as I am the son of my father? Or do you have another meaning? Would you please explain?
If you will, please remember
that it is a spiritual title.
God never married anybody. God is a Triune God.
And I'd like to urge you to consider that when we say Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim.
We see the Trinity 113 times in the Quran, like the Bible says Bismillah f whenever
we must love one another. We must recognize the truth of God in Christ, reconciling you to himself. Thank you.
Mr. to that.
Could you please explain how God could save the world?
Could you please explain how God could save the world as the New Testament claims? If Jesus was not God coming in the flesh?
Let me first correct. My brother Sharon, about Bismillahi Rahmani Raheem to see Bismillahi Rahmani Raheem means In the name of Allah, most Gracious, Most Merciful, Allah.
Allah who is most Gracious, Most Merciful, and he's got 99 attributes, that is a lie is not 99 Gods is not three in one way it is a Christian formula is in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
How does God save the world? That was the question, how does he say, there is only one way and the way is, believe in God and do good deeds. This is what Jesus says. He said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, most assuredly, I'm telling you, except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, you shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Unless you are better than the Jew. There is no heaven for you. That is the way of simulation.
Now, Mr. D that has concluded that comment on a very positive statement, I'm going to throw that same one open to Mr. Suresh, and allow him to conclude on a similar positive statement, albeit a very brief one. Thank you.
Once again, remind you Jesus never told a lie.
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so much the Son of Man be lifted up,
that anyone believing in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God so loved the world, that he sacrificed His only begotten Son, that anyone believing Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. When Abraham tried to provide his Son, God said, No, I will provide the offering. And we praise God that tonight, we can say for a truth, God, His Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one in three, three in one mystery, neither you nor I can understand it, but we can accept it like if
you're quiet for a moment.
between one in 2000 people were unable to get in here tonight.
And therefore, they were reluctantly turned away by the police on the instruction of the authorities here because there was no room
I felt when I heard about this that it must be impossible for a debate of this kind to be carried out between a Christian and Muslim. I'd like to ask you to thank the speakers.
Thank you and good night.