The Video They Dont Want You to Watch
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Channel: Adnan Rashid
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AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers discuss the Israeli government and its views on racist, racist, racist, and terrorist states. They emphasize the importance of listening to criticism outside of Israel and the need for leaders to be open-minded. They also touch on the influence of social media on the Jewish population and the potential for human beings to be woken up by the media. They propose a solution involving putting a Muslim hat on and a Muslim culture, rebuilding laws and creating a one state solution. They emphasize the need for a more flexible approach to laws and a commitment to listening to Jewish and non- Jewish voices.AI Generated Transcript ©
Why did you choose to be a designer?
Well,
I,
did my research and started look at listening
to narratives outside of those that I was
raised from. Okay. And,
the the context for my family history, I'll
I'll just sort of set the standard there
with that, is,
so my great grandpa,
immigrated into British Palestine at the time,
went through,
the war of independence, and then basically my
grandparents,
aunts, uncles, and cousins
all
are Israeli and only have Israeli citizenship. It's
only my mom and my brother who were
born there, thanks to my dad Okay. That
we all have dual citizenship and that's how
I'm British Israeli. Right. Yeah. Right.
So,
so do you,
do you actually support the 2 straight straight
solution? I'm on the I I don't think
it's a realistic approach. Yes.
I
I think,
and this is just my opinion,
from the
from the, inception of Israel as a country,
the fact that it is a Jewish state
that essentially follows
of Jews first above all else
displaces
Palestinians
and their rights to the land as well.
And, I think if Israel,
hypothetically, was to exist at all, it would
have to rewrite a lot of its laws
from the ground up in Knesset and as
well as its social attitudes. Yes. And that
is you basically have to completely rewrite the
country. Yes. And
it's But currently currently, what what is your
opinion? I I have an opinion that Mhmm.
That currently the state
is a racist state.
It's an apartheid state. Mhmm. It's a genocidal
state as we have seen. Mhmm. And it's
also
a terrorist state. This is this is my
opinion. These are very Yeah.
Kind of, some people think it's a very
harsh opinion, but I don't know why when
it comes to Israel, it's harsh. And when
it when we're talking about Russia or ISIS
Yeah. And other entities around the world I
agree. I agree. I agree. Acts of terrorism.
I do think it's very interesting that there
is because I think,
I do think that America and England and
a lot of the west
sees and we might agree with this. This
sees Israel as, like, a a post
for,
like, their opinions and their standpoint and their
influence. One of the last colonial outposts. Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I
do think that
I do think that,
And and that's what you're advocating. You're saying
that give some of the land to the
last colonial outpost. When you say 2 state
solution works or you you you're a proponent
of it, you're actually claiming that we must
It's it's it's real. Regularly. I think that
my friend here is when you are the
good and articulate. Yeah. If you focus with
if you go, we can do this anytime.
But I I won't do it. I'm not
running.
Okay. No problem. No problem. I'm gonna have
the camera straightened back to her because I
think she's Yeah. Yeah. No. This is this
is very interesting because we need more Jewish
voices Yeah. To talk about this. I think
yeah. Because because a lot of people out
there, they think Mhmm. That all the Jews
in the world Yeah. They feel that prejudice.
Yeah. They've got that. I also think that
one of the things I had to overcome,
because remember as a Jewish British Israeli, I
have the Jewish diaspora narrative Yeah. And I
also have the Israeli narrative. Right. And I
also have those social circles
that I need to
well,
to
to even approach,
narratives outside
Right. Is seen as a very strong stigma,
and let alone to have those conversations at
home. Yeah. That's a completely other,
ball of can of worms, You know? And
I do think that's,
one of the hardest things to do because
I do think for, people that are,
pro Israel, but also people that are pro
out,
Palestine,
you can see that a lot of a
lot of the conversations are just within their
own communities. Right. And
people aren't willing to well, not maybe that
they're not willing, but they they have a
stigma of even the idea of approaching and
speaking to people
of the other narrative. Right. And I think
it's really important
to
have an open mind and listen to listen
to
opinions that you may think you disagree with
Yeah. But then come to a realization of
there's a lot of parallels here.
But do you do you think this current,
situation in Gaza has actually changed the minds
of many young
Israelis and,
Jewish Well, okay. So there are a bunch
of,
far there were there was a bunch of
left wing organizations in it so that have
started to gain some traction. Right. We're talking
about the
which is standing together, talking about breaking the
silence. Yeah.
We're also talking about diaspora movements, which are
really starting to grow
outside of Israel in the Jewish circles. But
but people like Abby what's her name? That
journalist?
I'm not sure.
She's called Abby. Does anyone know that journalist's
name? Abby,
She's a she's a she she went
interviewed a lot of Israelis. Mhmm.
Abby
Abby Martin. Abby. Abby Martin. Mhmm. She's a
journalist,
and she has interviewed a lot of Israelis.
And she thinks Mhmm. That Israelis
are all genocidal.
I mean, she's saying there are 1 or
2% maybe, you know, who don't agree with
the government. Mhmm. But majority of the the
overwhelming majority of the Israelis Yeah. They are
speaking a genocidal language.
They want Yeah. The Arabs Mhmm. Or the
Palestinians for that matter to be wiped out.
Yeah. So I think I think that's,
mind if I No. Of course.
Sorry. I think that those that I think
the Israelis that have opinions alongside mine Yeah.
Are definitely a major a minority. Right. Are
definitely a minority. I do also think that
the narrative that you're saying of how they
are frame how they're framing a a denial
of genocide,
and and and a complete lack of acknowledgment
to the suffering of Palestinian civilians. Right. I
also agree. I do think that's precious. Why
is that the case? I mean So there's
censorship.
And also
okay.
So
so at at home, we've got the Israeli
news going on, like, pretty often, n twelve
and everything. Like But how can you brainwash?
How can you brainwash an entire population?
I mean, I'm Israelis are very educated people.
You get born and raised in it. And
Right. And you have there is there is
generational trauma that gets exasperated as part of
the narrative as part of this space. The
holocaust and and The holocaust. Yeah. And any
any form of any form of attack that
the West Bank or or Gaza has done
and as retaliation
to what the Right. Knesset has been doing.
It's it's always from the perspective of
secondary.
And that's because,
when you look at the if you ever
look at Israeli news, you'll notice that,
currently,
post October 7th,
the narrative is focused on the hostages and
only the hostages.
No mention of
the effect of,
Palestinian citizens
who,
have no active
involvement
with their governments or even,
the policies or Yes. Or or, like, you
know, may maybe, like, their maybe their cousin
was involved and then all of a sudden,
like, they're now part they're deemed by the
IDF as part of this network and everything.
Yeah.
It is a really
it is a very racist approach. Approach. If
you ask me, it's my opinion.
And I do think that,
this is really stemming to from the foundation
of the country itself.
The foundation of its country
with it being
Jews
having this homeland according to our ethno religious
roots Yes. Above all else.
And no matter what, we must protect it
with generational trauma feeding into that instinct
has led to this really extreme response and
this narrative which is that spread through what?
3 generations now? Yeah. 3 generations of people
being born into this narrative. Yeah. And born
into and also where
going into the IDF is mandatory. It's,
you've got forced concern not forced mandatory decision.
When you're there Yes. Doing the training, you're
Yes. And and what's really upsetting nationalist. But
then also,
coincidentally, that's also how the breaking the silence
movement came out. Because, people that grew up
into the system and then all of a
sudden were stationed in the West Bank Bank
or stationed in the Gaza border. And they
see for themselves the narrative which is not
presented to Israeli civilians on a day to
day basis. Right. It is completely ignored. Yeah.
They are not aware
of what is really the real violence and
the real catastrophe of a lot of innocent
people there that's going on.
And it's But I think things are changing
now because social media
has enabled many Israeli youngsters
to see the other side, albeit in a
in a in a very limited capacity. Mhmm.
But many young young is because they're the
future. Yes. Okay. Netanyahu is not
yet nothing has been dying Agree. Yeah. Sooner
or later. Okay. Sooner or later. And and
better sooner than later. I hope that, you
know Yeah.
A genocidal maniac like that, god takes him
as soon as possible.
Okay. Yeah. So yeah. I I This lady
is actually, you know
So yeah. Maybe
A little closer. I don't know. So,
yeah. The the
can you guys, can you move back? Can
you move back? I'm having trouble. Sorry. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Let's go there. Do you need
a hand with it? Sorry.
Okay.
Sorry.
Overestimate the power of absolute products.
Now she realized
that she was actually doing something. Yeah. I
I prefer this background. Okay. Oh, yeah. We've
got some nice green. Yeah. So so
I I believe that it will happen eventually.
Humanity will prevail. Justice will prevail. Look. Yes.
Look. There is a lot of misunderstanding even
within the Israeli,
the the the fighting protective instinct of, like
Yeah. They because in in their minds, they
there is a really strong idea that it's
Israel or we don't exist. Exactly. And This
is the propaganda. It's that fear. That's yeah.
Yeah. It's it's it's it's a deliberately instilled
fear Mhmm. That serves the purpose of the
idea or the Israeli ruling establishment. Yeah. And
it's it's a false narrative. Mhmm. This is
what I have been dealing with personally because,
I'm a historian. Mhmm. And I've I've been
talking about how the Jewish people Mhmm. Flourished
for over a 1000 years within the domain
of Islam. Mhmm. Yes. And the Jewish people
were heavily persecuted
in Western Europe. Mhmm. Okay. I don't know
how much of history how much of history
you know. I mean, all the pogroms and
Oh, yes.
So, I my family's Ashkenazi.
Okay. And,
the my great grandpa that came into British
Palestine Right. He was, he and his wife
ended up being the only survivors of his
family. Every every Ashkenazi Jew has a story
like this. Yeah. But Ashkenazi were always a
minority, historically speaking. Yeah. It it it were
the Sephardic Jews who were the majority. I
know there there is this conflict between the
the
Ashkenazi and Sephardic. Jew jury and, Ashkenazi Jewry.
Yeah. But for over a 1000 years, people
like Jacob Lesnar, he's a Jewish historian from
the US. He has he's talked about it
that,
for over a 1000 years, nearly a 1000
years,
the Sephardic Jews were the majority.
Okay?
Because they were living in the Muslim domains.
Mhmm. That's why they were called the Sephardic.
The Sephard was basically Oh,
America. Yeah. Turkey. And then, North Africa. Yeah.
1st, these are the first those who did
escape. Mhmm. Those who did survive. Mhmm. So
for over a 1000 years, years, the overwhelming
majority of the Jewish people were living
in the Muslim lands. The the oldest,
Jewish population in the world was in Iraq.
Mhmm. At one point, half the population of
Baghdad Mhmm. Okay, was out of 200 1,000
Mhmm. 80,000 are Jewish people. Yeah. This is
according to the testimony of this lady who
who
who who visited Baghdad,
in the early 20th century. I forgot her
name. She was an archaeologist, and she was
very active with Lawrence of Arabia as well.
Mhmm. She was one of the political agents,
and she advised king the first king Faisal
of Iraq.
The okay. Long long history, long story. She
actually describes
Baghdad as,
to some extent, a Jewish city. Mhmm. Yeah.
You you had 80,000
Yeah.
Jewish people living in Baghdad out of 200,000
population, which is which is phenomenal. So many
case studies are like this as well. It's
same with the Romani Jews in Greece. Yeah.
In,
one of, one of the coastal cities, one
of the port cities.
It was essentially
Jewish people that created so it was through
textiles
and just, local business. They flourished the city.
Almost everything. Yeah. Everything that was profitable, the
Jewish people are flourishing during the Ottoman,
period in Ottoman territories. Mhmm. And there was
a really there was a very strong history
of coexistence
as well. The the
there are Jewish scholars who claim
that from the year 12 sorry. 900 to
12 100, 300 years, this was the golden
age of the house of Israel under the
domain of Islam. And this was predominantly in
Islamic Spain, in Al Andalus Mhmm. Where we
had prime ministers, generals, scholars, poets, philosophers, you
name it. Mhmm. Rambam,
famous Maimonides
Okay. Was born in Cordoba. Oh, okay. And
he died in Egypt, in Egypt. He was
the private physician to the sultan himself. Mhmm.
Okay. This is the history that's not told
by the state. The Israel why would they?
Why would they? No. Yeah. To to the
Israeli people. If the Israeli people were to
realize
that we have no threat
coming from the Arabs or the Muslims in
general Yeah. Because we have we have a
history of 1000 years. It's so vast. It's
so huge. It's so rich. It's unbelievable. I
know. But the Israeli propaganda
and doing injustice to the people of Israel
as well. Using them for their Yeah. I
think what can be very interesting as well
is how,
you know how post,
the a lot of Mizrahi Jews
when,
Israel was founded,
call it Nakba, call it
War of Independence, whatever you wanna call it.
Yeah.
They didn't want the state to exist.
And when it when it was founded under
an incredibly bloody pretense Right. And
extremely violent and, like, absolutely disastrous of, like,
the outcomes of it. Right. The,
there was a lot of,
there was a lot of,
whiplash there was a really strong whiplash effect
to the Jewish citizens
in in these neighboring territories.
And this ended up feeding In the Arab
in the Arab territory. Yeah. Absolutely. And this
is why feeding into the territories where you've
got like Operation Magic Carpet and and and
so forth where they're basically
mass. No. There there there is this theory
that some of the the Zionists were deliberately
Mhmm. Carrying out
acts of violence Mhmm. In, some of these
Muslim territories for the for the Jewish people
to feel threatened Mhmm. Enough for them to
move to Israel Yeah. Because they So a
lot of Yemenis and Iraqis Mhmm. And Moroccan
Jews Mhmm. And Tunisians and Libyans Mhmm. They
ended up in
in what came to be known as the
state of Israel. Yeah. And and they are
die hard for Israel because their their
their their within their life of experience or
their grandparents' lifetime of experience
was of absolute violence of their, of their
original homelands. Well,
their native homelands, maybe not. Do do you
feel there's enough
there is enough
Jewish element
that's
influential
enough to make a difference
currently today in the world? This is something
that I'm really hopeful for. And I think
as as, as a younger generation there
are
there are 2 places where this where convincing
needs to be done. Convincing needs to be
done in the Jewish diaspora Yes. And convincing
needs to be done to Israeli citizens. How
do we do that? So I think What
do you propose? I think the easiest place
to start, and we're seeing that now, then
struck
back on. The narrative that a lot then
struck back on,
the narrative that a lot of,
diaspora Jews are starting to wake up to
is that there is a really strong and
heavily biased narrative that has been placed on
us, essentially, since birth in these circles. Yes.
And we need to
look further out and see that mistreatment
is not it's absolutely not the not the
answer and not what we're looking for. And
with the movements like, if not now, when,
and,
There are no mics on her.
And she's the one who's talking.
Wait. How many have you got now? I
don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
It's it's,
as they say, you know, it's it's Yeah.
No. It's, it's free for all. Yeah. Fair
game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. I think
what I would what I would like to
say is, I'd like I'd like to say,
like, as someone who is
more diasporan than I am Israeli,
having grown up in Britain, but with that
culture Yeah.
It's definitely gonna be easier to start in
the diaspora. Absolutely.
And once we because we have easier access
to the narrative that Israel outside of what
Israel is giving. Yeah. And I think
by
going to these movements and going to these
protests and having our voices be heard in
these circles and having the general public be
aware that there are Jewish people and there
are Israelis with these opinions
that understand
the origins of what the country came from
and what the country is currently doing and
the injustices is Yeah. Of
that, I think that we can start
to have civilized
conversations
Yeah. With people on both sides. You know,
it was it was it was very
refreshing and encouraging to see
so many Jewish people Mhmm. In New York
in particular to come out Mhmm. And condemn
what Israel is doing. Absolutely. And, them saying
not in our name. Don't use our name.
Don't claim this is a Jewish state. It's
like ISIS. Mhmm. ISIS claiming that we represent
Islam and Muslims. Mhmm. And they were like
a little tiny extremist minority Mhmm.
That was committing these acts of violence and
terrorism. That also helped fulfill a western narrative
as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You see,
so narratives are very important, and they have
to
be made
available to the masses. Mhmm. This is why
as a historian, I what I do is
I talk more about peaceful
coexistence between the Jewish people and the Muslims
in general,
because that helps people understand that there is
no historic
vendetta. Mhmm. There's no historic enmity. Mhmm. There's
no historic,
how can I put it,
desire Yeah? For that matter Yeah. To brutalize
the Jewish people Oh, yeah. And take away
their right of being, being
or living Yeah. For that matter.
This propaganda, the evil propaganda, the Zionist state
has been for a long time Mhmm. To
the extent that there are academics
Mhmm. Zionist academics, scholars Mhmm. Who have spent
their lifetimes
simply to study history
and create a new narrative, the clash of
civilizations, for example. Mhmm. So what are what
a lot a lot of the Zionists have
been doing, they've been claiming this Judeo
Judeo
Judeo Judeo Christian heritage. Mhmm. Okay?
But it's it's never been like that.
Amazingly, there was no Judeo Christian heritage. It
doesn't exist. You know why? Because the Jewio
the the the the Judeo element was always
persecuted in the west. Yeah. There was never
a time in in western history when the
Jewish people lived
in peace.
And I'm saying all the way up to
the 20th century. Mhmm. Okay. Even as late
as I mean, we have the holocaust in
Germany to talk about. Okay? And this is
not the first time when the Jewish people
were brutalized.
The history goes back a long
time, a long way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The
no. No. No. I mean, just to expand
on that, the reason the diaspora is to
the extent of it of what it is
today Yeah. Where you've got,
Mizrahi,
Betty Sla'el,
Ashkenazi,
Safadi, like, you name it. Yeah.
Essentially, it's spreading
to every continent in the world was a
result of continuous
displacement and and,
and removal. Absolutely. Wait. I mean, that that
wasn't the case in the Muslim world.
That is definitely the case in in the
in the Christian world. In Christendom,
the Jewish people had to move from time
to time, from place to place because they
were being banished. Yeah. To the whims of
whichever the monarchy was thinking at that time.
That's actually King Edward the first, the famous
Edward the Longshank, was buried,
in Westminster West Westminster Abbey.
The king of William I'm sorry. Not William.
What was his name?
The freedom fighter, the Scottish
William Wallace.
William Wallace. William Wallace. Yeah. Exactly. William Wallace.
Okay. You know, there's this famous movie, Braveheart.
One of my favorites. Yeah. One of my
favorites. So I all the first time it
came out, you know, I really loved the
story, but it's still a lot of fantasy
there. Right? That king,
Edward the first, was
responsible
for banishing
thousands of Jews. Mhmm. English jury was completely
wiped out. They were completely
they had to leave England. Mhmm. Okay. And
it was only later when the Jewish people
came back to Britain. Mhmm. Okay. So when
the Zionist
and they,
their dogs, if you like, sorry, to use
a very brutal term. Right? When they like
to put out this narrative that there is
a Judeo Christian coalition
that is dealing with this Islamic threat in
the world, Islamic extremism, Islamic fundamentalism,
Islamic terrorism.
This is all a lie. It's all a
lie. You're painting a civilization
deliberately, and it's a it's a bunch of
it's a bunch of extremists. Mhmm. These Zionists
who are a very small
minority within the Jewish people. Unfortunately, they have
somehow managed to get a lot of Jewish
people to their side. Well, it's it's very
unfortunate. You know, it's it's very interesting actually
because,
you know, it has someone who grew up
in these circles.
I I've seen both within Israel and within
the diaspora Yeah.
There has been a melding of
the Jewish state and Judaism.
Right. And it has gotten to the point
where
to be Jewish is to also support Israel.
Right. And that's the narrative that has been
created.
Absolutely. I think one of the
one of the,
one of the most difficult things I had
coming into coming down this journey of, like,
researching,
my country's history and coming to terms of
what's happened and everything,
was, first of all, just
giving the other side a chance to speak
for me to listen. Yes. And secondly, also
to understand that there is a difference
between my ethno religion
and the Jewish state. Right. And
one is not dependent
on the other existing. Yes. And And that's
never the case even in Islam Mhmm. As
Muslims. Yeah. We don't say that a particular
state represents the religion of Islam. That would
be a mistake. That would be a disaster.
You know why? Because let's say that state
decides to do something crazy like what the
Israelis are doing today to the to the
people of Palestine. Right?
Now that brings
bad light on the religion. Mhmm. Okay.
This is why
throughout our history, 1,400
years
of Islamic history, we have never claimed
that a particular
state definitely
Mhmm. Represents
Islam. Okay?
Or or or I must rephrase it. There
was never a state in our history that
completely fully
followed the rules of Islam to the I
mean, we can say the earliest period was
the best. Mhmm. Okay. When the early Islamic
expansion was taking place. But we had later
dynasties
as great as they were, as magnificent as
their legacy is Mhmm. As,
you know,
as tolerant as they had been Mhmm. To
the Jews and the Christians and others. Mhmm.
And, of course, there were periods of, disturbance
Okay. We don't say they they they actually
represent Islam.
Okay. Apart from the very early period, the
the prophet Mhmm. And his earliest companions and
caliphs Mhmm. We believe they were the best
people to walk the planet. They did their
best to to do to to as much
as they could. Even the prophet himself
was very
fair with the Jewish people. Mhmm. People a
a lot of the times,
people talk about one particular incident. I've I've
unfortunately, I've yet to read the Quran. I
have a copy at home. I've just You
must read. Read. You must read our you
must read the Quran to start with and,
read the life of prophet Mohammed. And another
thing I would like you to to to
read is
how the Jewish people actually Mhmm. Lived with
the Muslim civilization for over a 1000 years.
Yeah. That's a very It's a narrative that's
not talked about.
It is a completely lost narrative. It's only
known to academics and even those academics who
specialize in it. If you go to any
standard historian who
studies history, let's say, of Europe or the
Islamic world, they wouldn't be necessarily aware of
this particular side of the Islamic history. Okay?
Or the Jewish history, let's say. Okay? There
are experts
who have studied it. Unfortunately, most of them
are Jewish Mhmm. And many of them are
Zionist.
Okay? And and I'm not saying
only Jewish people
are responsible for this. I'm saying Muslims
also need to study that history Mhmm. Which
I have done to some extent, and we
need to put this narrative out because a
lot of people don't understand this. People think
Jews and Muslims
are basically
2 words apart, and they don't Yeah. They
don't want to be with each other. They
don't want to live with each other. This
is this is the Zionist state of Israel.
No. This is the narrative they created,
and they're pumping it quite successfully.
There are people, journalists, politicians who are pumping
that politician. Yes. I also think it's just
ridiculous as well because, like, we're all following
an Abrahamic religion. Absolutely. Yes. And we're we
all have We claim the same origin. We
claim, yeah, we claim the same origin. Yes.
I know. We know the differences, how the
Jewish people practice and believe in the religion,
how how the Christians went their way and
the Muslims.
Yeah. I mean, that would be interesting. I
have a perspective on this. That's a very
good question.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I forgot your name. Tony.
Sorry.
I named the best way forward for the
Tony is asking this question. Okay. Yeah. Tony
is asking this question that what is the
way forward? What is the solution? Now we
know the history somewhat Mhmm. And we know
the narrative of the the Zionist state of
Israel, and we know how some Jewish people
feel about the state of Israel. Mhmm.
What is the way forward? Mhmm. Would you
want to say first, or shall I say
first?
Please go first. I I think I think
the way forward
is to,
first of all,
not have the Zionist
to be part of the discussion.
Number 1, because there is no peace with
the Zionist.
They will never want peace. They will never
promote peace. It's like having ISIS
on a
table
discussing peace with them.
You're not gonna have that.
You're not gonna have peace with a bunch
of nutters
who have committed a genocide. Would you discuss
peace with Nazis?
Simple question.
After they committed the holocaust,
okay, it's like me coming to the people,
to the world, staying to the saying to
the UN or global leadership, sit with the
Nazis
and discuss peace and give a piece of
Germany to them. No. I would never propose.
So the world has to wake up. The
first step in the right direction is the
world has to realize that Zion is Zionism
is poison.
It's an extremist
ideology. It is inherently racist.
It is unfair, unjust,
and it has to be confronted head on.
Unfortunately, it's very powerful.
It's very influential.
It has many politics politicians in its pockets
as we have seen recently,
how all these presidents and prime ministers have
been making these
amazingly, shockingly,
shocking
statements. Like, you know, they have no
no no I mean, of course, they are
condemning
some of the actions of the state of
Israel. For example, the British personnel who were
killed recently. Mhmm. As the World Catchment. The
the the the aid workers Yeah. Who were
killed. Okay. 20,000
children have died to date. Okay? Many more
1,000 have been permanently disabled.
Okay? This is a genocide. This is an
absolute genocide,
And the world feels very powerless
somehow to express
their,
their disgust on this. So we have to
step in the right direction would be to
take control
of the territory,
remove the Zionist from the picture, and then
sit with the Jewish leadership of the world,
legitimate Jewish leadership,
and the Muslims,
primarily the Palestinians, the legitimate Palestinian
relationship, whoever the whoever you may think they
are, whoever you may think they are. You
don't like Hamas? No problem.
You don't like Hamas? Don't sit with them.
But bring the Palestinian leadership Mhmm. Legitimate Palestinian
leadership that represents the Palestinian people. Sit with
them, bring the Jewish people on the table,
and find a solution. Yeah. And the solution,
if you want to apply democracy sorry? Are
you saying that leadership is the legitimate leadership
is the
No. I'm not I'm I didn't say that.
I'm I'm we don't know. We'll have to
find. We'll have to find out. Okay. So
if if the world wants peace in the
Middle East
and we are serious about it Mhmm. Netanyahu
has to be sent to Hague.
He has to he has to go to
The Hague. He has to be put on
trial just like Saddam Hussein was
pulled out
of the the of the hole literally. You
know? You saw the the footage. Yeah. Saddam
Hussein was actually pulled out, dragged out of
the hole, and he was put on trial.
Okay. Milosevic and all those guys, we managed
to, you know, put them on trial for
war crimes. Here we have a war crime
in front of our eyes Mhmm. Right under
our noses. Right? We saw
a huge
number of children completely decimated. These are human
these are human beings.
If I I mean, I always talk about
this. If I took a cat if I
took a cat today, right now in front
of all these cameras, and I
twisted the neck of that cat, this lady
this lady standing
next to me, this very respectful, beautiful Jew
Jewish lady, she would attack me. 1st, she
would say, what the hell are you doing?
This is absolutely mad. This is crazy. Why
would you do something like that? Right? It
would be a verbal attack. I mean, look.
I mean, if you if you if you
if you if you intervene physically, I would
fully understand why you did that because you're
doing the right thing.
But we have 20,000
children
buried alive.
Right?
So something has to be done. So that's
my solution. And I I mean, if you
if I speak with the Muslim hat on,
and Muslim hats come in many different colors
and styles. Yeah? Put anyone you like, any
hat, any any type you like on my
head. The Afghan Pakal or the the long
whatever hat. Right? If I put my Muslim
hat on, I believe the solution is Islam,
ruling as a political entity. Because,
for example, I I'll I'll I'll qualify. I'll
qualify. Okay?
If if if Muslims are allowed to rule
this territory, because Muslims are the only people,
historically speaking, who brought the 3 faiths together
in harmony.
From the time Muslims took Jerusalem or the
land of Palestine,
this is the first time when the Jews,
Christians, and Muslims lived together, historically speaking. Who
says so?
People like Karen Armstrong. Okay. Karen Armstrong has
written a history of Jerusalem. Right? Mhmm. In
in that book, she states and I think
page 242,
she states, if I'm not mistaken, 240 or
242. He states that
Muslims came with a system
that brought for the first time 3 Abrahamic
faiths
under one domain in one piece of land
together,
for the first time. Mhmm. That's what she
said. I'm paraphrasing her words. Right? So Oh,
yeah. Yeah. You can. You can. So we're
gonna come to her first. Yeah. Am I
right saying your summary is that you're the
Muslim state?
No. With the Muslim With the Muslim. With
with yeah. Yeah. If why do I say
that? When the Christians are ruling Palestine,
they banish the Jewish people on pain of
death.
The Jewish people were
removed from Palestine
by emperor Hadrian
when the the revolt of Bar Kokhba
happened in 132 CE. Right. The first time
the Jewish people were sent into diaspora,
into exile Mhmm. In the world was by
the Romans. Mhmm. Emperor Hadrian in 132 CE,
when the revolt was crushed brutally by the
Romans, the city was leveled,
raised to the ground, and renamed Elia after
the emperor emperors and he was Elias Hadrianus.
No. I'm not.
The the term Islamic State has become tarnished
because of ISIS, unfortunately.
So so when people use this loaded term,
they actually Yeah. What comes to mind is
like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me finish.
I'm gonna I'm gonna come. I'm I'm finishing
right now. So so when the Jewish people,
got their power I mean, technically, if if
Israel is a Jewish state, which I believe
it's not, I believe it's not.
Look at what Muslims did with Islam. For
over a 1000 years, they ruled this territory.
Different dynasties, by the way. Different dynasties starting
from the caliphate, the earliest caliphate, the Abbasids,
the Umayyads,
the Abbasids, and then the Ottomans. Right? And
the Memeluks.
All of these dynasties ruled the land of
Palestine, and Jewish people were some of the
most prosperous people in this land. For all
that time, we had rabbinical courts.
We had Jewish merchants, physicians, philosophers, thinkers,
right, living.
It it was only during the time of
the crusade when all of this peace was
disrupted. The crusaders came in, massacred the Jewish
people, massacred the Armenian Christians and the Muslims.
So so my my my claim is one
of the solutions is
sorry. Sorry, Tony. You're you're you're story. You
you started me. I can't dispute any of
your history. Yeah. So my immediate concern would
be
no matter what the previous generations have come,
the
Yes. Calling So the world needs to get
involved. To what extent what's the best way
for us that they can coexist now?
The history you're telling As as I said,
the global international community, the Arabs and the
western world, they need to they need to
wake up and smell
the the coffee,
and they need to realize if they don't
stop this, it's not going to stop.
There will be more genocides. There will be
more wars. There will be more killing. The
cycle of violence is coming. The cycle may
spread.
Yes. Yeah. So what what are you sure?
What is this? Okay. Yes. No. My solution,
I I put forward. Right?
Thank you for Yeah. Thank you for saying
that. Yeah. Okay. So,
I think that
with the experiences that I have, and I'm
only 1 generation
of
3 and plus,
in the establishments and
problem where, there is such a strong narrative
on in the in the lands of,
seeing Palestinians as an enemy
and seeing as if we don't hit them,
they will hit us. They will eradicate
us. That
that creates that fear. That creates the
the fear based response that they have.
One of the most difficult things that would
need to be done is just to sort
of
start to work towards changing that narrative in
that in the country. And to start seeing
that for those citizens
that
it's not a it's not us or them.
It's about coexistence.
Yes. It's about coexistence because
for a lot of Israelis
that,
were born and raised on that land, that
is the only citizenship and the only identity
and the only land they know. Yeah. And
a lot Albeit imposed and cooperated. Yeah. Absolutely.
But
these these people also don't have well, my
my people
don't have control over previous generations' actions. Yes.
They were just born and raised in a
country that had a certain narrative and a
certain amount of censorship set upon them. Absolutely.
And This current generation cannot be blamed for
the the crimes of the yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. We yeah. We cannot blame Tony for
all the crimes the British Empire commissioned around
the world. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Continue. Yeah.
So I think I think sort of, extending
on that,
a sort of re reacknowledgment
of history and a re,
a and a fresh approach to the to
their to the education and understanding
of Israel's history and an acknowledgment
of the Palestinian narrative
that isn't mentioned
in,
in in the education system. That's one of
the first things to sort of talk about.
The second sort of approach would be, like,
I mean,
in an in an idealistic
in an idealistic way for to my in
my opinion,
I would talk about
if
if
Israel was to have any form of, like,
introspection
and to, like, self reflect and to understand,
like, the amount of change that needs to
be done.
An unimaginable amount of rules would need to
be rewritten from the ground up, essentially,
because there are so many rules that are
in place that put Jewish people first,
Jewish rights
first, Palestinian rights second. Mhmm.
That goes in both of those directions. That
is just as you said, you know, that
is a racist standpoint, and that is,
an unjust and unmoral
standpoint. So those would have to be rewritten
as well.
And if we go super ideal,
in my opinion
Like I did as well. Yeah. If we
if we go super ideal,
I think the,
I think I do I also agree that
it should be a one state.
I don't think a Jewish state is the
answer.
I'm not sure if a Palestinian
if an is,
Islamic state
is the answer. But I I'm not even
I'm not even
proposing that. Yeah. Not that title at least.
No. Not that title. Fine. And and and
and I'll apologize for my wording on that.
It could be it could be Ottomans 2.
Yeah? Yeah. Ottomans part 2 or something like
that. I mean, it could be anyone.
As long as as long as the point
I think we both agree Yeah. That as
long as
the Jews and the Muslims
and the Christians Mhmm.
And the Israelis and the Bedouins. Yeah. Absolutely.
Anyone. Anyone. Anyone. All human beings Yeah. Can
live in harmony Mhmm. Peacefully, and there is
law and order Mhmm. And law applies to
all Yeah. Equally. Yeah. Okay. As long as
that can be achieved, they're happy. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So
that is the man you're gonna do is
be in time. I will do it.
The problem is not all not all Jewish
people are religious.
Not all Jewish people actually follow
the rabbinical version of Judaism.
Likewise, not all Palestinians
are religious. If you look at the the
Fatah
leadership. And not all Palestinians are Muslim. Muslim.
Yeah. We've got Christian Palestinians as well. Yeah.
We have Christian Palestinians. We have Muslim Palestinians.
We have atheist Palestinians. Mhmm. Right?
So
so there has to be a solution Yeah.
That accommodates for I mean
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
They don't. Any
I don't see the nasty that's Yeah. Yeah.
Unfortunately
I think I think,
so going down this,
rabbit hole of super idealistic,
I I think
a secular one state
where
the from the laws of the ground up
that states
that,
the Israelis that exist,
are allowed
to,
especially if they already have a single Why
does it have to be secular? I mean,
if it's about if it's about the Middle
East I I would I would like to
finish my Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Sorry. Go ahead. Because because I don't wanna
be cut halfway on it. I'll come back
on it. Thank you. Yeah.
I would so I do think that in
this in a in a one state secular
state,
that has,
made sure that the narrative is
having the the entire viewpoint presented of its
history and
historical
wars
and
mistakes that were made.
That it should also from the foundation up
say that both Palestinians have an absolute right
to return and freedom to roam and freedom
to,
take, take land that was theirs and,
you know, reestablish themselves
there. But also Israelis that currently presently exist
there
with considering that
they they, you know, from as as my
example, like, down to my great my grandparents
being around, and that's the only the the
only identity they have. They they also,
in my opinion, have a right to remain
as well. But it it's about an approach
of coexistence and equality. Yes. Equal treatment.
Equal Agreed. Yes. Equal approach. Yes. I mean,
it's just
and,
you know, I I don't know
I I don't have an answer for how
to get to that point, but I just
agree. I think that there a reeducation
needs to be done and a rewriting of
so many laws
needs to be done. Absolutely. And I think
we we pretty much agree. Mhmm. And isn't
that amazing that a Jewish lady and a
Muslim man are agreeing Mhmm. On these many
of these principles. We
may disagree on the model. Mhmm. She may
propose a secular model Mhmm. Which I think
is impractical.
Okay?
I may propose an Islamic model
because
I have reasons to propose that model, and
she has reasons to propose her model. Right?
But we both agree
that
we need a model
that brings
different faiths Mhmm. Different people together Mhmm. Another
issue that is being neglected and ignored. There
is a lot of trauma.
And there's another issue that is being neglected
and ignored. There is a lot of trauma
that will have to be dealt with. Absolutely.
There is there is PTSD.
That's a big can of worms. Yeah. 100
100%. Yeah. 100%. I I think one of
the
So she's, yeah, let she was making a
point that you can
Yeah. You can. What is the Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
You just came right now. We have discussed
it extensively for the watch the video. Inshallah,
it's gonna come out soon. They're it's gonna
be on Yeah. I don't know many channels.
But anyway yeah. But we have discussed it.
Question. Just my question. Yeah. What is the
solution between them? What do you need to
do, Palestinian and and Israel
in that country? We we have discussed it
in detail just now. We discussed it in
in the last 15, 20 minutes. I think
we discussed it. Yeah. Yeah.
I've I think I've lost the point there.
Where where where were we? Okay.
Yes. We we both agree
that
Yeah. I spoke about history,
how historically
under under the Muslims
Yeah. The Jews and the Christians were living
together in Palestine for a very long time.
Okay? Okay. That's my solution. I'm saying if
we don't have another model that works, we
can go back to that model. How we
would how we will do it, details can
be discussed by people relevant people. Mhmm. But
like God gave to Israel, to Jesus, to
everything, to Cyprus. So we just I call
the the original model to me is the
model of my prophet and what what he
left behind in his teachings. And when we
did apply those teachings,
why did the Jews pee why did the
Jewish people survive
for over a 1000 years under the Muslim
domain? The Jewish people the Jewish people were
the most vulnerable people as a community in
the world.
There are many reasons for that
because of possibly indulging in usually.
Okay? A lot of Jewish, people were indulging
in rebah, what we call rebah usually. Okay?
And they were hated for that throughout European
territories. One of the reasons why Jewish people
were hunted repeatedly and hated by the masses
was because of interest, because of usury. Right?
And that's why the kings had to protect.
Yeah. I think I think when it comes
to,
historical displacements
Yeah. It's kind of ends up in a
way being a bit of a self fulfilling
prophecy with, in Judaism
where when Jewish people get displaced and then
moved to a new a new land,
they establish themselves, but they also ostracized themselves
from the wider majority. Get to a Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And they they just sort of,
you know, it's sticking to themselves
from probably
even at that point to some generational trauma.
But then,
the
the,
native residents
that are aware that the Jewish people have
moved in and have started
to work in the local economy and certain
businesses,
that at at norm I would I would
assume that initially it's a neutral standpoint
to this,
group of immigrants coming in. And then typically
when things started going wrong historically in one
way or another,
it was an easy finger to point to.
And,
you know, Ashkenazi
Jews were these strange immigrants
Mhmm. Back in back in the back in
this era. It's just gotten to the point
where whether,
Ashkenazi,
Mizrahi, whatever, we've just assimilated
into these local cultures
to the point that I'm white, you know,
that I I look like this. Yeah. And,
you know, and that's just Yeah. And, you
know, I have my privilege
Ashkenazis do actually come from Eastern Europe Yeah.
European territories.
So that that's that's another issue. That's something
within the Jewish people themselves.
And
these
great to be back. You make a do
as well with the scripture. Yeah.
But that the problem is because not all
Jewish people are following their religion. And just
like not all Palestinians are religious. Okay? I
think Yeah. I think the religion is
does create a really good moral standpoint to
build up from, but it's also really important
to write laws.
Yes. It's also it's also really important to
write laws. Laws. And who it is though.
I I also
No. No. I think there's 2 separates. There
is a moral and religious law. There's a
moral and religious law, and then there is
the rest separation?
The separation, I think, is what can hold
in in a court of law.
The separation is, I think, what can halt
in what can hold Even in a court
of law. Even the term court of law
can be relative because, because the Jewish the
Jewish people could have their own courts, Bethdins.
Mhmm. Okay. The the Muslims have their,
the court of the Qali, the Muslim judge.
Okay. So, I mean, if you're in a
secular country, then the laws are secular laws,
and you're in a secular court. But even
secular countries,
I mean, the idea of what morals are,
in my opinion,
they stem from religion. Religion Well, to to
to an extent. Yes. They they what the
moral moral standpoints and ethical and and questions
of of what is ethical and what is
moral,
religion just as just as a question in
in context just sort of brings
brought to the table for early civilization
what is okay for a just society.
And The the problem with secular societies is
that the laws keep changing Mhmm.
By the
the changes of the society.
Okay? So people Is that necessarily a bad
thing?
It could be sometimes. Because sometimes you'll make
laws that don't necessarily,
represent represent the the interest of the people,
the masses. Okay. For example, I'll give you
an example.
This,
this issue of
males ending ending up in female toilets
Okay. Okay. I mean, there are many there
there are okay. Okay. I I I agree.
I agree. It's gonna open another another discussion.
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. But I'm
saying, look. Look. When when people change, societies
change. Mhmm. Okay. Sometimes
societies come to agree on things that are
immoral. Mhmm. Okay. The Germans
predominantly were fully behind Hitler. Mhmm. When Hitler
was doing what he was doing to the
Jewish people. Mhmm. The he had the sympathy
of the the majority of the German people.
Not all Germans. Of course, I know that.
Okay? Just like today, Abby Martin is claiming
that the Israeli people Mhmm. Are predominantly
the overwhelming majority is behind
the
state and the actions of the state. Now
if they start making the the reason why
the Israeli state is getting away with these
racist
apartheid laws is is because they have managed
to convince the majority of the the Israelis
Mhmm. As to the correctness of these laws.
Yeah. I mean, the fact that they is
the problem with secular model. Okay. This is
what my issue is. Mhmm. When you have
religious texts,
okay,
their morality is determined.
Mhmm. It's it's it's all all already established.
You cannot make something
immoral
stated in the scripture,
and make it moral. It's not gonna happen.
Right? Because pens have been listed pay lifted
papers are dry. So you cannot change divine
law or God's law. But with secular system
Mhmm. With a with a secular solution, that
threat will always remain. If you manage to
convince the masses Mhmm. On on on a
disaster, on a catastrophe Yeah. Or on a
racist law Mhmm. Like what happened in the
American South Mhmm. Okay? With the with the
with the with the with the Afro Americans
Mhmm. And all the lynchings and all the
the so called emancipation and post emancipation Mhmm.
This is yeah. I mean, I I from
politics to end. I'm not saying you should.
I'm just saying you have to be
Right. Okay. Okay. Well, I Basically, I tell
Karl Bertram, politically, this is fantastic. Are you
ever observing?
Yeah. I'm He had on his own to
blame him.
What kind of state Yeah. Yeah. I think
we
thank you. Thank you. I think we're digressing.
Yes. Oh, yeah. So I think we have
pretty much expressed our views. Yep. And we
agree in a lot of things. I'm very
happy. Mhmm. Sorry. What's your name? Tal. Tal.
Yeah. Very happy to take talk to Tal
anytime in the future. You if you come
to the park, we'll continue discussing. We need
more people like you. Yeah. We need more
voices, Jewish voices. The voice is growing. The
voice is growing. I want I want people
to be aware Yeah. That
the diaspora voice is very much growing and
even in Israel even in Israel,
the voice is growing.
The minority
is
coming out and people are starting to talk
and people are starting to listen.
So make sure you you listen you let
us listen as well, please. Absolutely. And this
is why we're doing this exercise. The reason
why we're having this conversation
is gonna get out to potentially 100 of
thousands of people. Mhmm. Okay? And Yeah. And
I hope people can hear these voices. Mhmm.
You're a Jewish lady. I'm a Muslim
man. Mhmm. We have we've had a very
friendly conversation. Mhmm. We agree on a lot
of things. So this perception out there that
there is conflict, this enmity, this is a
lie. Mhmm. This is not true. She's an
educated lady. I am still trying to learn
somewhat. Okay? So we we have a long
way to go, and we can bring back
that coexistence,
that that feeling of compassion Mhmm. And generosity
and justice towards each other Mhmm. That once
existed among us. And we really have to
look to the future. We have to plan
for the future Mhmm. And and talk more,
represent our views more. And we want more
Jewish voices. We want more Jewish voices to
come forward
and start
speaking the right thing, start saying the right
thing. And there are many as as as,
Tal pointed out. And we saw lately,
on the news as well that many people
Mhmm. Are being, being being heard and they're
coming out. Mhmm. I'm very glad to see
that. Especially the the American Mhmm. Jewish community
that came out in New York. They made
us proud. Mhmm.
Jewish community that came out in New York,
they made us proud. Mhmm. Okay. And we
hope this can continue. Mhmm. And eventually, there
will be a day when we will see
peace again in the Middle East. Inshallah.
On that note, thank you so much. Thank
you so much. Thank you. My pleasure. I
cannot I cannot Yeah. Okay. Islamic, I'm not
allowed to have physical contact. I apologize. I
wasn't aware, but thank you very much. But
but thank you so much. Thank you very
you.
you.