The Father & Son Podcast Ep. 2 The Rise of the Ottomans

currently is called father and son are working and we have a father and son podcast. Yeah.

We might have to end up sticking with that. Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm Ali kumara mucha Lucha Baraka Two Brothers and Sisters in Islam. Welcome back to

father and son podcast. We haven't yet decided to name. Okay, that is the situation that we are currently in. We haven't decided a name for this podcast. Okay, now I just want to put clarification out on this podcast.

This is not my podcast, which is called them as lists on my channel. Okay, a lot of people are getting that confused, you can watch that as well. And this is a podcast that will be on my father's channel. And it's a father and son podcast. So you'll see me on every episode here Charlo to Isla. Sure you're very grateful for that.

Right.

Okay, so, beginning let's let's start off this podcast by discussing your recent trip to Turkey, you recently went to Turkey.

And you were a tour guide. If I can call it like a history guide on the trip. How did you find? How did you find that trip? I think is your first time doing that in Turkey. Right? Yeah, this was a lot of money, Rahim. Absolutely. That was an amazing experience. I went with a group of people from the UK. And I was there as a history guide. In other words, explaining the history of the Ottomans as we went along, on the trip. So we went from place to place city to city explaining the history of Ottoman monuments, tombs, salons and the graves and possibly pre Ottoman history as well at the same time, because we came across a lot of Roman Byzantine history as well. Yeah, so it was a fascinating

trip. So inshallah we, we will be doing more of these tours in the future, okay, to Turkey, to Spain, to Morocco, possibly. And we will be teaching history

on the ground, as they say, you know, reading history is one thing, but actually looking at history, experiencing it in person, touching it, feeling it, internalizing it in that way is absolutely a different experience a completely different experience. Right. Yeah. That's why it was a fascinating experience for myself as well, even though I had read about this history, multiple times, but being there in person to explain the history at the the very monuments. And, you know, at the tombs of these great Sultans, explaining the history and shedding light upon the deeds, it was a very different experience. It was a very, very spiritually uplifting experience. So 100 Alive was a very

interesting journey, I think is interesting, because currently, we have the, the process of the Turkish Turkish elections going on, right. So you have all gone on one on one side. And then you have this other guy on the other side,

I think comes across as

a secularist. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people are making this. This distinction between the two candidates, two major candidates are Legon represents the Islamist or the Islamic

element. And the other person who was in opposition to argon represents the Canalis secularists people who represent secularism or more kind of leaning towards secularism kind of people. I think, what's quite strange about Turkey, the situation in Turkey is that when you go there,

even though many of the people unfortunately you do find many people

come across as quite irreligious. Yeah, I do think that's a fair statement to make.

You do find religious people, of course, I'm not saying that there's no religious people in taking you to find these people. But for the most part, like when I went to Istanbul, you know, when we went like, some months back, I found that the, the Turkish people, if I was to generalize them, I would make a generalization. Most of them don't come across as religious, very religious people. Yeah, depends where you are. Yeah, there are certainly and we went to see city I think in the tourist areas, maybe that's why. But the thing the point that I wanted to make is, even though that sentiment may come across some people maybe some of the people listening at home, they've felt

exactly the same way.

Ice still feel like this is unavoidable history in Istanbul that kind of divides the two groups and it slaps you in the in your

As wherever you turn your right to like the buildings, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I have Sofia, when you go, it's like, it's unavoidable for Turkish people, it's unavoidable

for them to like to see that. All of this contrast, you're talking about a contrast what I mean is like, even for people who want to bring the secularists idea and the ideology in play and stuff like that, and they want to kind of try and erase Islam from the picture, or like, you know, try and attempt to subdue it.

That, how can you do that in a place like Istanbul? Like, we're in a place like Turkey, where the Islamic history is so rich? Yeah, it's very difficult to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Absolutely. I mean, look, Turkey is a very unique case. If you go back to Spain, for example, okay. Even the Catholics, as hostile as they were, when these Catholic Monarchs in 1492, when they took the last stronghold of the Muslims, called Granada. From the Muslims. They went on,

how can I put it a cultural genocide? Okay, they committed a cultural genocide, they started to completely remove any traces of Islam, from not only Grenada, that was taken recently, but even other lands where Muslims existed in large numbers, like Seville

and Valencia, also, okay, so large Muslim populations are there. And these Catholic Monarchs carried out a systematic genocide, not only a physical genocide, but a cultural genocide. Yeah, they burned millions of books, they destroyed many monuments. They simply could not erase the history of Islam from Spain, because there was so much there. And this your point stands. Yeah, but we didn't have a situation like that in Turkey. In Turkey. What we had was a break from the tradition, let's say, I mean, the traditional history of Turkey is very rich. It started with the Ottomans, the rise of the Ottomans, we will discuss that very quickly, briefly, so that our viewers can actually appreciate

what we're dealing with. Right. Turkey became

Turkey, due to the Ottoman

contribution. Historically speaking, right? Of course, we talk about the landmass of Turkey. What is Turkey today? Yeah, Turkey is a huge country. And majority of the landmass or let's say, geographically speaking, what we call Turkey, today's predominantly Anatolia is also called Asia Minor, because it's like a mini continent is a huge territory. Yeah. And guess what Musa? This was Roman territory. Yes. As late as

the 11th century. So 71 was the year when the Romans are defeated in a battle called the Battle of man's secret, man secret, okay. And the Seljuks they defeated the Romans. So turn up our salon was the psijic ruler at the time, yes. And he had captured the Roman emperor in battle.

Well, this was the second time in Roman history when the emperor was caught, was captured on the battlefield. So what happened to him last? So he was humiliated There are reports that Sultan alpins salon actually humiliated him right and there are other reports that type of humiliation for example he he made him basically become a footstool something like that. Okay from from if I'm not mistaken in this I read about it a long time ago right? Yeah, okay. And we see similar situation with sharper you know, this is the third century CE and the Roman Emperor valerian is that the one who, who was caught the first time in battle, only captured was he forced to drink gold or something. No, no,

that was the last Ambassade qlf Oh my word. Okay. The Mongols were stuffing coins in his mouth. Oh my god and telling him I mean, the legend goes, this is how this has been reported, but we don't know how true that is because there are different reports of him being killed or the method used to kill him. The last Ambassade qlf almost asked him in 1258 when the Mongols took the city of Baghdad and it devastated the city completely wiped it out. Okay. There are reports that when they found the killing of the last Ambassade Calif, almost ducks in Billa.

There are reports that they basically found him with his treasure. And all they locked him up with this treasure and taught told him to eat this. What you did not spend to defeat us yesterday.

Right. There are other reports that he was rolled in a carpet and kicked to death, a Mongol way of killing the elite, basically, right, though. That's a different topic. Yeah. So we're going back to massacre, the battle, a massacre took place in 1071. When the Roman emperor was actually his name was Romanus. Okay, okay, he was caught on the battlefield and humiliated. This was the second time in Roman history when this happened. As a result of this battle, the Romans completely lost control eventually, completely lost control of

this territory called Anatolia, okay, which was Roman territory. And we when we're talking about Romans, we're talking about the Christian Byzantine Rome. This is a very interesting point which I came across one of our guides who was with us brother Tarik, who was on this trip. And he mentioned something very interesting. He said, this term Roman has been removed from history systematically when it comes to Eastern Roman Empire. Yeah, because for some reason, Europeans don't want to accept that the Romans were defeated by the Muslims. Yes. Okay. Even the Romans were defeated many times by the Muslims earlier. But this was such a devastating defeat that it it eventually resulted in the

taking of the city of Constantinople itself. The capital of the Roman Eastern, Eastern Roman Empire. Okay. Yeah. So the term Roman was replaced by the term Byzantines. I don't know which book I was reading. But they were mentioning that the Byzantines didn't see themselves as Byzantines, right. They actually saw Romans, they always pride in calling themselves the Romans. Yes, it's just like the Mughals. Today. The Mughals basically never, to my knowledge, call themselves moguls

until the 19th century, or would they call it was in the 19th century when the Mughal started to refer to themselves as moguls because the British had used this term convenient conveniently to describe the models. The moguls called themselves or refer to themselves as the team leads

to a movie in the house of Timor. See more the famous conqueror from Central Asia and the Mughals were descendants was related to the to the Mongols. Yeah, indirectly. Yeah, he had he had some linked to the Mongol. Yes. So so the Battle of Manduca decided as to what will happen to this territory in subsequent decades. And one was that again, 10 710 71 Yeah, this is when Turkic people started to move from Central Asia, in to this new territory conquered by the Seljuk Seljuks themselves were Turkic, or they were from the Turkic stock from Central Asia. They were originally from Central Asia. So they started to move into

this territory, new territory. And then

the Seljuks remained in power for nearly you can say 200 years, if not exactly 200 years, or nearly 200. In the year 1248, or 1244. A battle took place between the Seljuks and the Mongols. The Mongols came in invading this territory, and they defeated the Seljuks in a battle. Okay.

And this battle basically weaken the Seljuk center

Seljuks ruling all of this territory from cornea Yeah, okay. cornea was the capital. Okay? Where

Jalaluddin Rumi Marana gelato. The roomies buried. Okay, okay. So, cornea was the capital of the Seljuks. The Seljuks lost the power. As a result of this weakening of power many Turkic principalities who paid homage to the Seljuks as the overlords or rulers above them, they started to declare independence. Okay. And they came to be known as basics. Oh, yes, basics. basics are basically small, Turkic or Turkish principalities ruled by Turks who came originally from Central Asia. Okay, so there were many basics throughout Asia Minor, or what we call today as Anatolia, the landmass of Turkey. Okay. One of those basics in the north western part of Anatolia was the Osmanli.

Basic, okay, the Ottoman In other words, the Ottoman basic, it was a small principality in the northwestern part of Anatolia, and this was kind of a buffer zone between the Romans The Byzantines and the rest of the Turkic Bailey.

Thanks. Okay, so these people because they were ruling these Marsh lands on the border land between the Romans and the Turkish principalities, they started to fight the Romans. And they started to take territory from the Romans. And that gave them a lot of confidence, a lot of credibility. They became the Mujahideen. They became the champions of Islam, in particular, Sunni Islam. So that gave them a lot of credibility. And these are the basics. These, these are the Ottomans that I'm talking about the Ottomans, the children of man so taunt with man himself. Yes. And his children, his descendants, they became more and more influential and powerful. And they go back to the cause of

the wars with the Romans, the Byzantines were far more superior militarily than these Turkic bailiwick's. Okay. Okay. So, so this is how Ottomans came about. Okay, so when we talk about Turkey today, Turkey didn't come from a vacuum. Okay. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of background work, which Muslims did for nearly 1000 years. Yeah. So as you said, this, this can't be just wiped out in 111 stroke. Okay. Like most of our Kemal Ataturk, when he came to power in the early 20th century, he tried to remove a lot of these things. Okay. He he changed the Athan, he changed the alphabets. Okay. And he also changed many things, he changed the dress code, tried to change the

culture, a lot of things. What is the actual position on him?

That's a very good question. What source dependencies is is viewed as a Muslim. Many people using his writings and his views the doubt his Islam because Islam completely and there are others who insist that he was a Muslim, but he was trying to modernize the Muslims of Turkey. Okay, so there are different views on him. Okay, uh, but looking at his profile. Okay. I don't think he cared much about Islam. I mean, that's my personal opinion, people can Is that is that a controversial thing to say? In Turkey and maybe controversial? Oh, was it controversial? In Turkey is it's really in Turkey is is constitutionally protected, you cannot insult Mustafa Kemal Ataturk Okay, he's literally

called the Ataturk. His name was most of our command is called Ataturk, which literally means the father of Turks of the Turks, the father of the Turks, right. So he's the founding father of modern Turkish state, right. So that's why constitutionally his legacy and his prestige and his his name is protected. Okay, yeah. So it is not constitutionally feasible to insult him or criticize him or even highlight his, his controversies. Okay. Okay. So so that's why all the guns battle is not only against corruption.

It's also against

people who, who are very adamant in keeping the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk alive and they want to remain secular, they want to have as little Islam as possible, socially speaking, in Turkey. So Erdogan is trying to you know, revive some sort of Islamic legacy is trying to bring back appreciation for Ottomans. He has done a lot of things. He has opened up monuments, he even made higher Sofia

or reinitiated it as a mosque as a masjid, which it was after before 1930s When most of our Comala toward merit in into a museum. Yeah, right. So you did a lot of these things. So auto ministry is absolutely fascinating. I mean, I don't know why we're discussing politics, Turkish politics, but I mean, I wanted to bring the current events of perspective to it as well. Yeah. Yeah. But I was completely blown away by by the photons and the history and you know, when you are on the ground, looking at

the soul bands and the sacrifices and, and looking at what they had created for Muslims, they did a great service to Islam and Muslims. Did you leave Istanbul when you when?

Did we sorry, did you leave Istanbul? Or you stayed in Istanbul? No, no, we stayed in Istanbul a couple of nights. And as in as in did you go outside of it? Uh, yeah, we did. We started with Iznik. Okay, classical Nicaea is Nick is where the art comes from. Right. Which art? You know, the famous? Yeah. Oh, no, I don't know about the Turkey shot. But, you know, like the mosaic? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's it's mainly I think it comes from is enrollment. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's mainly Eastern Roman. You know, like the flowers you know, the, you know, the flowers on the Ottoman plates and stuff like no, that's different. You're talking about tiles and stuff like that. Yeah, I think

that comes from time blue. Okay, I don't know about that. I think this isn't okay. So now is Nick was basically a

Nicaea the city of Nicaea where the famous Council of Nicaea took place I made a video about

this church. Okay. Yeah. Is Nick is the place of this this art tilework? Yeah.

So, isn't it was the city of Nicaea? already? Okay, that's where the Council of Nicaea the famous Council of Nicaea took place in the year 325 CE and I actually visited the place I uploaded a video on my channel. Okay. There is a church in Iznik, which is, which was built in the fourth century, when Emperor Constantine was around. And it is claimed Some people believe that that is the church where the Council of Nicaea took place. Others believe that a recently discovered site,

which is underwater, currently on in the lake, because Iznik, the city of Nicaea was on a lake while somehow Okay, okay, so this new newly discovered site was seen from from above, there's an aerial view, you can actually see the foundations of a religious building, and it looks like a church. So a lot of recent scholars believe that that was the spot where the Council of Nicaea actually took place. Okay. Okay, because sources assert that the Council of Nicaea

went on for a very long time. Of course, the conclusions were drawn on a particular day, but the bishops had gathered for nearly a month discussing points of theology. Right. And it is possible that these discussions took place in different places, but there is a part of the council or discussion that took place in Constantine's Palace, okay. In the city of Nicaea or Iznik. In Turkey, right. So there are two candidates of this particular council with the council might have taken place. One was where I actually showed a church it still exists the church still standing, but it's a masjid now.

made into a masjid. And Murad

took the city from the Romans. Do you think the Ottomans were aware of the history? I don't think so. Really? I don't think so. I don't think the Ottomans are actually aware of the history of the Council of Nicaea. I don't think so. Okay. Even most Christians at that time wouldn't be aware of that history, maybe bishops, these Roman clergy. And when we say Roman, we mean, the reason why a lot of people a lot of scholars use the term Byzantine is to basically denote the Christian element also, right. Byzantine, the Eastern Roman Empire was also called the Byzantine Empire, because they became Christian after Constantine, the subsequent emperors were Christian. What version of

Christianity did the follow is another very interesting question because not every single one of them was a Trinitarian Trinitarian. Like Constantius, the son of Constantine who succeeded him was a Unitarian, Christian, Unitarian, in inverted commas, or some sort of Aryan, okay. He had some Aryan tendencies. He wasn't a unit Trinitarian in the strict sense of the word. And then Valens was the Emperor, who was a Unitarian, then came theodosis, who basically rubber stamped the doctrine of the Trinity in the Council of Constantinople in three at once II, because it was to console the problem is a lot of people don't appreciate and understand how important these places are for Christian

history. Some of these places, some of these cities taken by the Ottomans from the Romans are basically as important as Makkah and Medina is for Muslims. And these monuments are in Muslim hands today. And they've survived. So when people talk about Muslims, destroying churches, Muslim Muslims, destroying religious buildings and all that, it's all it's all a lie. You go to Turkey. You see the oldest churches in the world are still standing today. It's another thing that they are masjid, they have been made into mosques, because these territories were taken by force by the Muslims. And it was a very well understood common tradition among

forces or civilizations fighting each other that if our territory is taken by force, everything within the territory belongs to the Congress. Okay. So they went by this law, and that time, yeah, okay. So if the Romans were to take a city, everything's in the city would belong to the Romans and if the Ottomans were to take a city by force, having fought

They were in everything in the city would belong belong to them. So that's why a lot of these old buildings, churches were made into mosques. And for that reason, they're survived because they were. They were they were preserved, they were maintained, and they were renovated. So this church, this old fourth century church, or originally built in the fourth century, this church still stands to this day in the city of Iznik. And it's one of those candidates for the Council of Nicaea. It is highly possible that these 318

bishops sat in that particular vicinity and discussed points of theology. That's why I provocative provocatively titled, the video, the Masjid where Jesus became God. So it was in the Council of Nicaea when it was determined that Jesus is God, just as God the Father, yeah. On par with him. Okay. equal to God, the Father, and other person in the Trinity. So God, true God or TRUE GOD with capital G, basically. So Jesus was declared to be God, with capital G. In this council, the Council of Nicaea. You know, a lot of people might be wondering, what do you mean when you say capital G and small g? What does that mean?

Small G biblically speaking, other people who are called Gods, okay, the Israelites, that meant people of God, okay, divine people. Okay, God with lowercase g in the ancient world meant people of God are godly people. Okay, so for example, the book of Psalms, chapter 82, verse six, okay. It is stated, and this is the Bible, I'm quoting the Bible, that Israelites are gods. Okay, with lowercase g, that means they are they are godly people. Right? Or there is another example in the book of Exodus chapter seven, verse one, where Moses is told that I have made you a god to Pharaoh. Yeah. Okay. Like a guide to Pharaoh. God with lowercase g. But when you write God with capital G, that

means God the Creator. Yes. Yes. God. The the rub this? God, the supreme

deity. Yes. So Jesus became God with capital G.

Okay, in the, in the Council of Nicaea basically decided, yeah, so one of the straw one of the most, how can I put it? What are the most

sacred points of theology for Christians today was determined in Turkey, in the city of Iznik, classically called Nicaea. In that very church, or maybe the other church under water. Okay. But it was done in the city of Nicaea. That was taken by the Ottomans in the 14th century, to be precise, 1326 Pencil bound Murad, the first took that city from the Romans. And that was a huge blow to the Romans. It's like losing our courts.

Okay, because that's a very sacred place for the Christians. Nicaea. Right, Nicaea. Then, these churches were built in the city of Constantinople, where the second council took place, the Council of Constantinople, that council took place in a church called a church of Saint Irene, which is basically part of the Topkapi Palace today.

And it was used by the Ottomans to store the weapons, not knowing the significance. I don't think the Ottomans knew that this is one of the most important churches in Christian history, the Church of St. Ives possible they knew, but they didn't care.

I don't think so. I don't think Ottomans were aware of that history. Or even if I don't know, I don't think they were interested in that history. Yeah, to begin with, because they were more focused on expanding the territory, taking all this land. And you know, I really want to talk about the the achievements Ottomans took Islam militarily speaking into Europe. Okay. They were facing crusades, crusaders, European Western European crusaders fought them. Crusaders came from France and Britain to fight the Ottomans. Can you believe it? In the Balkans? Wow. Right. So there were many famous battles that took place between Ottomans of fans and in fact one of the Ottomans Athan

was killed on battle on the battlefield. After having won the battle in 1389. The battle of Kosovo. Sultan Murad was assassinated soon after the battle. So this Sultan was basically Sultan Murad, the first killed on Battle killed right after the battle after the Battle of Kosovo, fought in 1389 was a very important battle that took place between the Ottomans and the Serbians. So Serbia basically became Ottoman territory much of Serbia, okay, after this battle, okay, so before that, so turn off man allows you with man, who was the son of a toggle? By the way, these are toggle series is mostly fictional. Okay. A lot of people don't know this. Okay. The thing it truly represents the beginning

of the Ottoman Empire. I don't think that is the case.

Actually, I know that's not the case because we don't we don't know anything about a chakra. Very, very little. Very little is known about a thorough, in fact, the only physical evidence we have of Ertugrul Gazi is a coin

attributed to osmangazi. His son, which, basically in the States, the name of man, Bin, Sultan of man, the son of a talker, that's the only physical mention we have. That's why I don't know. That's why I don't really watch these series. But it's good to know those people who watch them for a cultural understanding of the period, or maybe historic outline of main events, then, it's not a problem. But there's gonna be a lot of stuff in there where you might start to think this is actual history when it's not No, it's not history. The series is not his dress. This thing is fiction. Historic fiction, I would say, is fiction based in history.

So a lot of man was his son, and very little is known about him as well. Okay, history writing about the Ottomans starts to take place. When Sultan Murad the son of Sultan northmen Sultan or Hans or not Murad, Sultan, or Han, the son of Sultan of man, came comes to power and starts to take more and more territory. After Sultan or Han come Sultan Murad Murad, the first who died soon after the Battle of Kosovo. Do you remember how he was killed? Like how he was there are there are different there are different reports about his assassination.

Christian sources claim that

it was one of the Serbian Serbian prisoners who pretended to surrender.

Okay, and when he was brought close to the Sultan or when he came when he came close to the Sultan, he stabbed him in the neck and in the stomach. Okay. Then the Muslim sources highlight that he was killed soon after the battle. Okay. And he was killed by one of the assassins. Okay, doesn't that Muslim sources don't clarify was European, European celebrated this all the way all the way to England? Yeah, even in Britain, celebrations took place when this news reached that the Ottoman Sultan has been assassinated after the Battle of Kosovo. And many people claimed that this was a victory because the sultan was killed, but his son by using the Thunderbolt also known as Bazi, why

is it yeldham? Y'all drum actually means that Thunderbolt. He was given this title this name because of the speed. So when Sultan Murad, the first son by his EGL drum took to power he completely devastated and overwhelmed the servers and it took a lot more territory in Serbia, they became a very worthy

successor. In fact, he besieged Constantinople for nearly eight years. Wow, for nearly eight years, when they move from Central Asia decided to invade the Ottoman territory. So Timor basically rescued the city of Constantinople. I believe the city of Constantinople would have been taken by Sultan by his eat 50 years earlier 50 years earlier, if Timor did not intervene, so Timor or Tamerlane Timor, the lame, or Temo lunk, as he's called in Persian, he was another gangers con, to simplify things. His basically, you know, idea was that I want to revive the legacy of Genghis Khan. I want to take as much territory if not more, as the Ganga ISKCON. So Timor was trying to imitate his hero, Genghis

Khan, right. So he went conquering. All over the place, he conquered all those lands.

that were taken by the Mongols Right? Or reconquered let's say he even went as far as India, it devastated the city of Delhi in 1398 Then he went to Damascus Okay, he met him the whole Dune, the famous scholar Imran Khan. So was he was he

you cannot because the Mongols for example, like when, you know quietism Shah Muhammad holism Charles time when when he was dealing with the Mongols and stuff, they were quite immoral. And

the saurian normals. Yeah, they were even a fear speaks about this. The Mongols were very brutal. He speaks about how immoral they were meaning like they would they would agree to a peace treaty, and then go against the peace treaty. You know, for example, they would say to the people of the sea, you're all good, no problem, surrender, surrender, and then people would surrender and then they would massacre them. Right. So what's the mood like that? Yeah, the mood was, he was like, Tim mood would actually make a point of punishing people. Okay, making an example out of them if they resisted. Now, the only exception he made was the city of Damascus because the city of Damascus was

very, very bravely defended. So when he took the city of Damascus he excused all the people because he admired the brilliance in defending the city and even even condone came to plead with him, you know, please leave the city alone.

So that was a historic meeting. My name Timo decided to attack Anatolia okay. And Ottomans by this time when Sultan by using gel drum is in power had taken a lot more land in Anatolia when Sorry to interrupt this is 1402. Okay, to be precise, this is the year 1402. So this is well before Constantinople in the

summertime Hamad Al Fatah, yeah, one of the grandsons of nearly 100 years before the over 100 years. Sultan Mohammed Al Fatah was the great grandson of Sudan by us children. So he would take the city 50 years later, was it Oh yeah, 14 1414 Salt, still banned by using gel drum was besieging the city of Constantinople when Timo attacked him from behind him.

So eastern Anatolia was touching the borders of Central Asia, you can say something more came in attacking his territory. So there was this battle of Ankara. It's called the Battle of Ankara. It is the most devastating battle in the history of the Ottomans. Because the Ottoman Empire almost crumbled. Just Just as it started nearly 100 years ago, it crumbled it almost crumbled because Timor completely devastated the Ottomans. Okay, in this battle, yes. So tan by his it was captured, okay. And he was humiliated. There are reports that he would put him in a cage and paraded him all over the place and humiliated him. There are other reports from the Team Read side that he was treated

respectfully. Again, these are conflicting reports about his treatment, but he eventually died within a year. So Tom Vaizey children died in captivity, right. His sons fought each other for the throne, and then followed more than 10 years of extreme struggle of succession between the sons of Sultan Bhaiji This is why scholars believe that it was a miracle as to how the Ottoman Empire or the Ottoman State survived because the sons having fought each other it was so devastated in stable, unstable unstable because they took different cities in different principalities, each son controlled a major outpost or the Ottoman territory. And they used it and they allied themselves in

the Byzantines, the Romans actually got involved and the Romans are taking full advantage of this divide. And they completely wanted to wipe out the Ottomans, because they felt very threatened. So Tonga is he was on the verge of taking the city of Constantinople when Timor attacked him. So the Romans saw the mood as a savior if the guy's besieging it for eight years. Yeah, imagine so so these sons also done? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So they fought each other. Yeah, they were Solomon Musa Isa Mustafa, Muhammad Allah be the one who came out to be the Sultan, the next town who defeated all his brothers. So he's called Muhammad Shalabi. Okay, so Tara Muhammad the first in

other words, you know, he united the Ottomans and he's reestablished the Ottoman State and then, lo and behold, the Ottoman survived, you know the Ottomans. They did have people of knowledge amongst them. Of course, of course, of course my so. So what do you think these people of knowledge were advising the sons on they will find each other

because I'm not, I do understand that these people do ask the question, how can Muslim leaders sons fight each other brothers fight each other, etc. But I do understand that a lot of the time, we fall into an issue where we look at history from Ireland's we've spoken about this in the last episode actually. So I do understand that, okay, they had their own context, they had their own, you know, they had to do what they had to do, basically, and whatever. But what was the religious advice like, what do you what do you think? Look, it varied from sulphonyl sultanzoy from place to place from period to period. So it wasn't homogeneous, you will not find one,

you know, volume

of fatawa, or religious rulings given by Allah ma during the Ottoman period, because this was 600 years, this period was lost. A lot happened in these 600 years, a lot of things changed. And the Ottoman never agreed with each other fully. Again. So if one set of valamar are giving one fatwa to assault on another set of Allah would come later and possibly challenge it. So do you think some of the Allamah at the time were really were religiously kind of justifying? 100% of person they will Mr. Allah ma, throughout the auto ministry were directly involved in politics, the Ottomans had divided the state into three categories. Okay. For example, as Korea, which was military, then

elmia, which was knowledge, the knowledge wise, the Alama, and the governors and even the disease, they came under elmia. And executive, okay, I don't know what the term was for that. So there was the executive

side of the state, which was the sole pawn in his establishment. So in other words, this will ban the military and the Alama. These are three entities that ruled in collaboration. So Ottoman State, some wondering that the enemy side they probably did feel like it, they probably did have their own. Look, their problems are not like our problem. It's not a fight between two brothers living in the same house. No, yeah, these are princes, who were independent. They had their own militaries. They had their own establishments, they had their own stuff. They had their own territories. They had their own provinces, right. So they are rulers of different territories. Yes, they were very

powerful people. They hardly met with each other. You weren't, like they didn't have a relationship with like we do today. Like we sit with brothers, our blood brothers, our siblings, we talk to them, we build relationships with them, but they weren't like this. And they often came from different mothers, they have different agendas. They have different ambitions and aspirations. So we cannot judge Ottoman princess or moral princess for that matter, or sell your princess for that matter. By a normal standard person's lens. No, they will not normal people. They will not standard, ordinary people. They were living very different lives living very different realities. So this, this is

something you have to understand when people start to judge princes, also bans, let's say, by our own standard today, our moral values, let's say our ethics of the 21st century. This in the study of history is called anachronism. anachronism is basically when you apply a latest standard to judge an earlier age. Okay? Those people lived different realities. Their circumstances are different. They had to face different challenges to us. That's why they think they did things differently. They didn't follow our laws, our ethics, our feelings, our sentiments, they didn't feel like us. They didn't talk like us. They didn't even think like us, right? That they were thinking very

differently. So these are the things we have to think about. So when we talk about even the Olimar that those Allama are not dealing with situations or Ahmad Ahmad deal with today. Okay, so though they were living a very different reality. And, of course, these rulers often used Allah ma to justify the wars, the invasions because the Ottomans were not only fighting the Romans, but that was no one. None of the Muslim states in Anatolia, in Asia Minor. None of those Turkic basics had a problem with that because the Ottomans were doing the job of Islam. Okay, as far as they were concerned, the Ottomans are fighting jihad against the Romans. Right. But when the Ottomans turned

to other basics, to fight them to subdue them, this is when

this became a problem because all you're attacking now other Muslim Brothers, you're attacking Muslim principalities,

While you're doing so the Alama had to justify the automatic justify that these guys because they're stronger, they are more worthy of ruling. And if anyone's attacking them from behind them, then they are justified in attacking them in retaliation. So these kinds of things did take place. Okay. So Ottoman history is so fascinating. We can be talking, we could be talking for hours upon hours, but I really want everyone to understand. Yeah, okay. I mean, I think I think typically, this has been a taster. We can have more episodes we can have, I think what we should do in the future is we can have some individual episodes on specific parts, maybe. So we could do a whole episode on auto

Mohamed 30. For example, a whole episode on conquest of

the conquering of Constantinople.

And we could do all of that we could do individual episodes. I think this is this is the this is the highlight of this podcast. conversation can go anywhere. Yeah, for sure all. As we explained in the first episode, these are going to be random conversations, on history on current events on anything interesting. For that matter your questions, we want you to ask questions. Why there? Yeah. So is this book a good book? Yeah. Well, swans dream is a very good book is by Caroline Finkel. Does that cover all of it? Pretty much. It's a very good, I would say. It's a very good treatment of Ottoman history. Okay, even that book is brief, as big as it may look, but it's a brief treatment of the

Ottoman history of 600 years. Wow. Okay. Yeah, it's a very good book, I would say it's quite technical at places in from, from a historical perspective.

Well, if you don't know the background, some terminologies, you know, that she assumes the author, Caroline Finkel, she assumed that people would be aware of those basic terminology like Liqua, like, you know, Seljuks, who are the soldiers, oh, for example, people or historic realities or dynasties or names of the Sultan's and things like, okay, so sometimes you you you go do your own research first book, you're reading on the on the Ottomans, that you may, you may be confused at places, right. But it's a very good treatment. Osmond's dream is called us man's dream. And the author is Caroline Finkel. Okay, I think we've gone on for a very long time. We think we should summarize this

I hope you enjoyed our discussion on the Ottomans, that my memory was fresh. I just came back from Turkey having done this history to watch out for more of these tours of Turkey, Ottoman Turkey, and Al Andalus Islamic Spain, and more inshallah Tala keep an eye on our social media accounts. There is another

tour coming from the 24th of July to the 29th of July 2023. This July basically, you are most welcome to join us on this tour of Al Andalus. Spain, I will be the history guide on that tour, inshallah. And you can get some personal history teaching from me while you are there on the tour, we can have conversations like we did in Turkey, and do look look into it. You check out my social media accounts, my YouTube posts, and you will see the poster there for more details Inshallah, to Allah. On that note, we want you to ask questions. And if you have questions, please post them in the comment section. Post them very briefly, don't write long essays because we're not going to be

able to treat them. So keep your questions as brief as possible. Keep them straight to the point whether those questions are history related theology related, current events related, we will try our best to make this podcast as dynamic as possible. And inshallah in the next part podcast, we will announce the name. We have received many recommendations. Thank you so much, everyone. We have been overwhelmed by your your recommendations. And we've been we've been looking at every single one of them. None of them were ignored amazing recommendations, but we haven't yet decided what we are going to call this podcast, but it will be announced soon. Currently, the working name is the father

and son podcast and most of us saying that it may it may it might

as well. We might let's see, let's see what we do. Okay, so currently is the father and son right? So it's a conversation between the father and son on history, current events and other interesting things. Inshallah, Brother and Sisters is a cool little film for listening to this episode do subscribing, shallow to and and keep up to date with all of the content. Salam Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh