Yasir Qadhi – What is the Position of Scholars on Insurance Q&A #15

Yasir Qadhi
AI: Summary © The speakers discuss the history and reputation of insurance, including its impact on society and the use of technology to protect oneself from potential harm. They also touch on the concept of interest and the importance of protecting property and private property in the face of natural disasters. The speakers mention various people who have been associated with insurance, including Dr. effort Zarco and Dr. Abdul Wahab, and discuss the history and reputation of insurance, including Subhan Garden's claims about insurance being pathetic and Dr.iroj Koudjo's claims about insurance being pathetic. The European Council has addressed the issue of health insurance and made an exception for certain policies, while the European Council has addressed the issue of working for insurance companies and the potential for job losses due to the environment.
AI: Transcript ©
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Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen wa Salatu was Salam ala Sayidina Muhammad Ali, he was ivh mine I'm about. So since coming here and opening the floor for q&a, one of the most common questions that I've been asked is about the issue of insurance. So I'm going to answer all of these questions in Sharla. Today, and because the topic is so long and detailed, it will be our only question for today. So the topic for today is, what is the position of our scholars with regards to overall the topic of insurance? Whether it is commercial insurance, house insurance, car insurance, life insurance, what is the opinion of scholars about insurance? This will be our topic for today.

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So We answered this question by beginning with the definition what exactly is Insurance insurance. Of course, as we all know, it is a form of risk management where lots of people come together. These are the policyholders, and they pay a company, the insurance company unknown fee to protect them against an unknown event or an uncertain future event. And of course, the concept of insurance was not around in the time of, you know, the prophets are some of the Sahaba, when the Quran was revealed, the people were not doing these types of transactions. In fact, insurance is a relatively modern phenomenon. And it only began in the 17th century, after the Great Fire of London in 1666. If

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you're aware of your history, London was engulfed in flames. And I think a quarter of the city or half the city was was destroyed 10s of 1000s of houses were destroyed. And so the concept came of the people who lost their properties that what if we were somehow protect the value of our property, and have a fee that we can pay to accompany that we can gain back the protection of our house. And this began the concept if you like of house insurance. And in fact, our own funding for the Benjamin Franklin, when he came to America, he actually founded the Philadelphia contribution for the insurance of houses from the loss of fire, that's the name of the company. So if your house is burnt

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in a fire, Benjamin Franklin has a business if you pay him money, then he will do that. The first therefore was house insurance within a few decades. England Of course, at this time is a naval superpower rich merchants are sending their ships overseas, and they don't know what's going to happen to my merchandise will a pirate attack it will some type of you know issue take place and all of my money will be lost. And so these merchants came together. And they over literally coffee discussions at a coffee house in London, the issue or the the notion came about what if we were to pay a fee, so that in case something happens, right, we will then get our money back from that

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merchandise. Hence, in 1774 Lloyd's of London famous company, Lloyds, which is still one of the largest insurance companies in the world, Lloyd's of London began offering what we now call business insurance or merchandise insurance. And around the same time as well, the concept of life insurance also came about, even though obviously, to be technical, all of these prototypes are very different from modern equivalents. But still, the notion is coming house insurance, property insurance, life insurance is all coming in the same timeframe. Interestingly enough, it was only after great crises took place in the western world where the concept of insurance became common. So for example, it was

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after the American Civil War, when so many people died, that, you know, men who were still alive said, you know, we should have a life insurance on ourselves in case we die. And the largest spike in life insurance happened after World War One, believe it or not, when so many hundreds of 1000s of people died. So those that were left alive, will that hey, we might as well get insurance over here. So it's interesting how calamities had an impact on insurance. Now, before I even get to the filthy issue, obviously, the question a lot of us have, how can these insurance companies make a profit anyway, I mean, if you think about it, you're paying, you know, 100 $200, whatever, per month, and

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then when you need them, they're gonna pay you 1020 $30,000 or life insurance, you're paying, you know, 5060, for those of you that, you know, might possibly have it, we'll get his verdict soon. And the goal is to get half a million, right? So how are they going to get in? How are they going to make a profit when you are paying a nominal fee. And the response to this is by pooling together a large amount of people's money and then aggressively investing that money in bonds or in other profitable enterprises and also sometimes giving banks that money so that they can give it an interest. So then the interest companies get an interest. And by calculating for example, if all of

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this crowd were to give to the company, right, how many will actually need at any given time, not all of them small percentage. So the insurance company essentially takes a large amount of pool of cash

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cash from lots of people and aggressively makes a guaranteed profit on that in giving bonds and interest in what not. And then it has its complex calculations that what percentage is going to ask the money is going to be a minimal percent or a lesser percent. And so overall, they will make a profit. And the fact of the matter is, insurance companies regularly make large profits. Generally speaking, in the modern world, insurance companies are a profitable business, and they make profits, you know, regularly. And therefore, one can say simplistically that insurance companies make a profit from two sources. Number one, the premiums collected from lots of people, which they

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calculate will be more than the amounts they pay back to some people, right. And then number two, they take all of this wealth and they aggressively put it in stocks or bonds, a lot of times because they need guaranteed they cannot usually invested in in areas that there might be a loss, and so they aggressively invest in guaranteed profit. And so this will also give them back their profit. Now, obviously, the goal of every insurance company is to make a profit. And that is not problematic per se, every company, you know, its goal is to make profit. And the insurance companies have an army of statistical tons of mathematics experts of sociologists, who calculate complex equations of

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trends of human society, like what percentage will actually need health insurance based upon that they will calculate their premiums. So there's nothing wrong with the goal of making a profit, every company wants to make a profit. However, the issue that comes is that insurance companies are different from other businesses, in that there is no tangible item being sold. There's no actual service that they are giving. So they are a different type of business than the one that most people are accustomed to dealing with. When you go buy a car, you're purchasing something, you buy food, you're purchasing something, or you buy a service, right? Even you can buy a service, no problem,

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you're buying something that is tangible, somebody comes in or you buy a software or somebody comes in cleans your house, you're buying something that is tangible, you can measure it. The problem comes of course, insurance is not something that is tangible. Rather, it is paying money to guarantee the return of money in an unlikely event of an accident or misfortune. Or if it's life insurance in the likely and inevitable event of death whenever it happens, what you want to still delay as much as possible. And the insurance company also wants you to delay because they don't want you to die immediately. They want you to live a long life to get your premiums as well. So this is a

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brief history of insurance and what insurance is, and therefore obviously insurance is a modern issue, you're not going to find statements of the classical scholars Ibn Taymiyyah did not write about insurance. It didn't exist in his time. However, interestingly enough, by the way, one of the greatest scholars of the Maliki Murtha by the name of ash hub, who wrote el mundo Juana, and he is one of the main founders of the Maliki method after Imam Malik. In his famous book, he died 204 Hijra. So very early scholar. He's giving examples of false transactions. And a modern researcher has come across a paragraph in his book in which essentially he describes interest. It's a

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theoretical he goes, What if this what if that, and he says, for example, and this is from his book went up, that it is not allowed for a person, as you will know, to say to another, I will give you this much money to protect my merchandise to such and such a time? Because I'm going to use technical terms, just memorize them, we're going to come back to them, because there is a horror, and kaymar These are technical terms, I'm going to come back to it because there is horror, and kaymar in these contracts. Because the one who paid the money, the one who was paid the money, excuse me, the one who was paid the money. If he knew that the merchandise would perish. If he knew

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the merchandise would be destroyed, he would not be content with a small amount of money. In fact, he wouldn't be even willing double or triple this amount. And the one who's paying the money. If he knew that his merchandise would be safe, he wouldn't pay anything. Right? So he is saying that there is an amount of water and kaymar and he goes it's well known this contract cannot be valid. Now this is actually very accurately hypothetically describing interest. And an ash hub is of the era of the great Imams use even before Imam Al Bukhari he's 206 Hijra. Now, even though this is a theoretical one, this overall attitude of our modern scholars has been to problematize and generally prohibit

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the concept of interest as it currently exists. Now, there is a concept

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called to count food and HDMI. There's a concept called takaful HDMI, which is a mutually you know, pooled resources of interest, which some scholars have said is an alternative in today's lecture, I will not even talk about it for one simple reason, it doesn't exist right now, it is a hypothetical alternative. And our scholars say people should do this. And the example is if 100 people came together, all of them are paying to a big pot. And if somebody needs the money from that pot, then he will get the money that is in that pot, then he will, you know, continue to give back until somebody else gives. So they say this is a type of mutual, you know, interest a car footage Temari,

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and it's hypothetical, it doesn't actually exist in the western world for sure. Some countries like Malaysia and others are attempting to do something of this nature, where they have an alternative to interest or sorry, alternative to, to insurance, but it doesn't exist in the western world at all. So I'm talking about practical interest as insurance that exists over here. So the overall philosophy of pretty much most of the scholars of Islam, from the time of the 1700s, when interest came out up until our times is that, conceptually speaking, the contract of interest is not a valid contract in accordance with the principles of Islamic law. And they gave four primary reasons why

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this is the case, they have more than four for our lecture. We'll do number four. Number one, Colorado, we already came across the word a lot. All right, number one horror, and we're going to come to this number two, they said, there is an element of interest that is clear. Number three, PMR, which is gambling. Okay, number three, gambling. And number four, they said, some of them said that having insurance goes against Tawakkol and belief in other and they have other issues as well. And my brief talk today will mention only these four. Now, in my humble opinion. The first two are the clear cut issues that make interest from an Islamic paradigm, something that is very

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problematic, and that is horror and interest, the issue of Qmr or gambling, it is valid but not as strong as the first two. And the fourth issue that it goes against Eman and Qadr. In my humble opinion, it should not be on this list at all. Because why is this the case? Imagine powder is one thing and using reasonable precautions is another thing. If insurance were halal, then it would be something we should do to protect ourselves from a misfortune or calamity, just like we install fire detectors, just like we wear armor if we're going into battle, just like our Prophet system said tie your camel and then put your trust in Allah. So the issue of bringing in a man Bill Kadar when it

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comes to interest is not a valid way to refute the concept of interest because anything that is halal can be used to protect yourself against a misfortune. And in fact, that is a part of other it is a part of khadar to use our natural resources to protect ourselves against a calamity, right? Therefore, this whole issue of saying that interest goes against Iman, in other in my humble opinion, it is an incorrect point to bring in who should not be brought in in the first place when it comes to issue of of insurance. It should only be the first three and that is number one horror, which is the biggest number two interest and number three gambling, gambling Jaya, now we get to

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what is a horror? What is horror? And horror is such an important concept and we're going to spend a few minutes on it because, as Mr. Manoli said that the concept of horror and the prohibition of horror is one of the foundational premises of Islamic economics is one of the big chapters of Islamic economics, the prohibition of horror, what is haram? And where do we get this prohibition from Hadith in Sahih, Muslim, Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam forbade they will have saw while they are all horror, the transactions of stones and the transactions of horror. What is the transaction of stones burial hustle, they all have saw was a

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transaction in Jaya Helia

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in which a person would have merchandise all in front of him, right the buyer sorry, the seller would have all of his merchandise, and he would go to the purchaser and the purchaser would say here's basically 100 dinars and I will purchase anything my rock falls on. I'm going to throw the rock and whatever pile it falls on, right, it will be my pile. Now obviously the piles are not going to be the same. One will be wheat, one will be grain one will be butter, whatever and the person

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Throwing and trying to get something over there. So this is obviously a type of unknown or uncertainty. Another version of Beirut house law is that I will purchase your land as far as my rock can go. So as far as my rock can grow, go, that's how much I will purchase your land. But you see, the strong throw will throw much more and the weak throw throw much less. And so, this is an uncertainty and therefore, to clarify, what is the base of the transaction of the stone, the Prophet sallallahu Sallam also said what they are a horror and horror means uncertainty a lot are means unknown. Any transaction in which you do not know what you are getting, it is an unknown what you

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are getting, this transaction is forbidden by the unanimous consensus of all the middlemen scholars of Islam, you cannot purchase an unknown the contract has to be known what are you buying for how much money when is the payment going to occur, it must be everything clear cut, if there is an element of extreme uncertainty, then the contract becomes null and void for example, if somebody says in this box there is something but I'm not going to tell you what it is and I'll sell it to you for $100 This contract is null and void bottle according to all of the scholars of Islam you cannot purchase an unknown or of a person again pulls out a lottery type of stuff this is the standard

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lottery if you purchase a ticket of you know $10 One of the people will get it that's the bid or the house saw as basically you're throwing the lottery one of the people will get it and the others will not get it now by the way footnote here what is forbidden is the essence of the contract being unknown. As for small details being unknown this is obviously understood when you purchase a car you know the overall state of the car you know the model you know the you know the state is a good Now obviously, if somebody finds a small scratch underneath the seat or something you can say oh I didn't know about this, you know, this is a horror that is your seal they call it negligible amount

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of horror. Okay, you purchase a house you see the overall quality of the house right now if there is you know, one socket of the you know, electric socket broken, you're not gonna say Oh, you have Miss Miss characterize the house. It's a small amount, right? So this is something that is called alohar. Or ESC a negligible amount of, of uncertainty, right, a small amount of uncertainty is overlooked. Now, by the way, I've given two examples that are very clear cut, you understand in the middle, there are gray areas, right? And this is not the talk to get into it. But just to whet your appetite. One of the controversies of modern times in which famous scholars are on both sides is all

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you can eat buffets.

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All you can eat buffets.

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So don't go to

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Imam sub does not want me to go there. I mean, you don't want me to go to the buffets or you don't want me to go to the example of who goes to the buffets.

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If there is an all you can eat buffet of halwa Puri

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and a group of Imams mashallah goes

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versus a group of people on the Keto carb diet goes, they're gonna pay the same amount, right? But mashallah Imams have Baraka when it comes to Alba booty.

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And the Keto guys will eat nothing. And this is a Jokes aside, is this horror that is extreme, or is this a lot of that is

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Kali, or you see,

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most of the rules of our time say that this is overlooked a lot. Because the restaurant owners have fat calculated and figured out an average amount. And on average, a person eats, you know, a certain amount and whatnot. But some of my teachers were stricter, and they said no, this is not harder to see, because it is known that a person might eat four or five times the amount of another person. And so he would say it is not allowed to go to one of my famous teachers who says not allowed to go to this because this is harder. So my point is I give you two examples that are clear cut uncertainty what is inside the box, and it's a closed and shut and padlock I'm not going to tell you

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what's inside though. And by the way, this is done in America. When the storages right when the storages are locked up right for and then the contract expires. So the person says unknown, I don't know what it is. I'll sell it to whatever's inside for $100 This is on it is not allowed for any Muslim to get involved in this because this is exactly where I saw you throw a stone at random you don't know what's going to happen. This exactly beer has was not allowed. This is horror that is far harsher. That is a lot and a lot harder. You see it I gave the example. Anything you buy you do not examine it to the Malecki

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To the level you don't examine, you are gonna have an idea. You buy a pound of grapes, you do not examine every single grape, you understand overall the quality is whatever XYZ quality and you purchase accordingly. Obviously, in the middle there are there are middle examples, which we're going to neglect for our for our talk today. Now, in the insurance transaction, what are you getting back? For what you pay? Do you know, this is why the entire transaction really is a type of extreme audit. And this is well known. And that's why the vast majority of scholars, like 99% of the scholars, when they talk about insurance, they say, the number one issue insurance technically

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cannot be allowed as

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you are paying the premiums every single month, and it is possible for 1520 30 years, you never need anything. And it is possible the next month, something happens and the insurance company pays you half a million a million dollars, right? And this if this isn't 100, what is so the Shediac does not allow horror. And insurance is an example of clear cut a lot of and I give you two examples of this, that you can pay for many, many years, and you get nothing. And even the second month, once you insure May Allah protect all of us, if somebody shows their house, the next one, something happens, the insurance company is going to pay and the guy only paid $50 or $100. And the insurance company

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has to pay whatever half a million wouldn't might be. So this is the number one reason and this is, in my humble opinion very clear. There's no going around this. Number two, they said what is number two why interest insurance is not allowed. Number two, they said interest interest. And the issue of riba being inherent in insurance is something that is also self evident. The the issue of interest being a part of insurance is self evident. Why? Because all of you should know this. When it comes to

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buying and selling currencies and money, the Sharia has a whole different set of laws than when it comes to buying and selling merchandise and goods. Okay, when it comes to exchanging money, if it is the same currency, it must be the same amount and spot trade on the time. If I give you $10, you're allowed to give me if I give you a $10 bill, you're allowed to give me single one dollars, no problem, right. And it generally must be done on the spot. Or if it is differed, we know it will be exact, I can give you $10 today say Oh, I have to change at home, and it will be 1111 I'm gonna give you you cannot charge me $11 or $9 for giving you a $10 bill, right. So generally speaking, two

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conditions must be met if is the same currency, and that is spot trade. Spot trade doesn't mean I collect the 10 right then and there it means we know you will give me 10 In single and the same amount. If it is a different currency, then the only conditioners you know the amount sport trade. But it doesn't have to be the same amount. So I have British pounds, you're not going to give me 50 pounds for $50, you will give a different amount. But when I hand you when the transaction happens, I know how much I'm going to get back. Right? So this is spot trade. Now when it comes to insurance, is it the same currency or different currency? Actually doesn't really matter, too because the point

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is, it is the same but doesn't really matter. Because when I give you the money, what am I going to get back money? Do I know how much money? No. And this is the essence of interest. This is the essence of interest exchanging money

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at different rates, or unknown rates of a different currency. This is the essence of interest. I cannot give you 5050 5050 Then something happens Oh, give me a million. Give me half a million. I am purchasing money for money. Right? And this is the second reason why our scholars say that insurance. Conceptually speaking, conceptually speaking, goes against the laws of the Sharia. And technically, for those who are advanced students, both types of riba are common in an insurance clause because there's Reba al fadul Reba nscf Reba Alfonso means that the quantities of the same currency have to be the same ribbon nnessee A main spot means at the same time, in an insurance

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contract, neither condition is met. There's two types of riba by the way in Islam, but even further Urbanus here, maybe at a later time we'll have this more advanced class, but for those who know their fifth understand that insurance is guilty of both types of Reba, Reba have different amount and riba of time because you're not getting it at the same time. Okay, so there's ribbon fall and Riba and Nasir, so as I said, there's four primary reasons the fourth one will neglect the first two we have done and that is there is haram and there is Riba the third one kaymar gambling, and I say there is an element to this at the same time if this were the

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only issue. It's not the strongest and so an argument can be made against because you can make an argument that investing in stocks is a type of gambling, meaning you don't know the result. And in and of itself, generally speaking stocks are hella I haven't answered that question and maybe one later time we will answer this question What makes the stock harder to invest in, but my humble opinion, and Allah knows best, the issue of Kmart or gambling is not the strongest point to negate the validity of insurance. It is one point we can add to the list. But the first two are open shut as they say. And that is horror and Riba. And this is something that even the most basic student who

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begins to study Islamic economics can understand. Now, the issue of gambling, as I said, you understand that you put a small amount and your goal is to get a large amount back, right? So you just like when you buy a $10 lottery ticket, and your goal is you win the lottery. And so they say this disclaimer, and I say, Okay, I see where you're coming from. But don't we all do the same for stocks? I mean, don't we all wish we had invested in Yahoo back in 1999. For those of you that are talking about right, if we only had $10,000 Back then then we wouldn't have to be employed and Colossae. So that's also a type of but so that's not haram. So therefore, I say with my utmost

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respect, pay mod is not the main issue that we can use single handedly, by the way, these four are the main then there's 567, that other that other people do. And in my humble opinion, the first two are enough to be said now, the fatwa that conceptually speaking, insurance is haram is the standard fatwa given by the vast majority of scholars. And the first item to ever that we know of to ever issue a fatwa about interest was one of the greatest aroma of the Hanafi madhhab had been Aberdeen and Hanafi, who died in 1784. And who wrote the famous book, rather Modar, which is a very famous standard Hanafy textbook, and he died 1784 So it's very interesting. Subhanallah wild in wild

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insurance is just coming out in England, and even Aberdeen was where you should know where he lived. Where did he live Damascus? And he's in Damascus. And he Subhanallah I don't know how actually really would be interested in how did he know about what is interest or what not, but he wrote a detailed fatwa that went over the contract of insurance. And he laid the skeletal foundations for all of these later odema in 1784, Subhan Allah that he wrote this and pretty much after him, it simply became the standard and everybody's looking at it even if insurance is evolving, but the same issue of the MA I mean, sorry of horror and riba exist and that is why I do not know of any Council

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of filk scholars in the globe and there are over a dozen of such councils. I do not know of any such council that has said the concept of interest is halal. And I can quote you the Council of Senior Scholars of Saudi Arabia, the Kuwaiti Council, the scholars, the other Council of Scholars, you have the Roberta multifocal Islami in the Roberta, you have the the Council of Scholars of Islamic finance and Mutambara it may be left the solid Islamic there is a large scholarly body of financial experts, the largest such one in the world. And they have semi regular meetings and they issue for to us. These are the most knowledgeable specialists in Islamic finance in the world. And they come

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together once in a while, and they issue fatwas. And essentially all of these councils that are well known and famous have said, the concept of insurance, conceptually, it is not a law, that is as it exists today. Again, remember, there's an alternative, which is doesn't exist in the modern world. And they say this is maybe headed but that doesn't exist in the model. Now. Did anybody disagree? Yes, as usual, it's not it's not 100%. We have

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a handful of names that in the realm of modern Islamic law, are known to be how should we put this to have views that are atypical, their knowledge is respected, the reputation is established, everybody admires them, but they're known to be a typical in their photos. And some of these people have been at the forefront. In fact, they're the only ones that have been allowing

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insurance as a concept, and perhaps the most famous amongst them is Dr. Mustapha Zarco. And also Dr. Abdul Wahab, Calif these are two global ulama who were world famous in the 70s 80s 90s. They both passed away in the 90s or early two early 90s. I think yeah, but these were like you know, they were on the same panels, a show called Bowie and others the dose to that level, and everybody admired and respected them, they have established a reputation and they have fatawa that are known to be

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outside of what is called, you know the the norm and that doesn't make it wrong. By the way, if you listen to my last lecture as well, it doesn't make you wrong. I'm just saying, these are people that are typically outside the box and Dr. Mustafa Zarca was one of the first to write to treaties about insurance being permissible. And this became like the standard for later scholars who wanted to make it permissible. And he argues that there is no harm we said number one is haram. He goes, there is no huddle. Why? He says, because the companies are doing doing their due diligence, and making sure that the risk is overall assessed and minimized. And they said As for this claim, that there is no

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tangible benefit. No, there is tangible benefit. There is recognizable benefits, you get something tangible from insurance, what do you get from insurance guys?

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Very good. Michelle hit the nail on the head, you get peace of mind. This was most of us doctors point. When you have insurance, you get peace of mind. That is something tangible, it's something that is you can know it. I mean, tangible means you know, it's there is something that is that is there. And he gave the example of a security guard.

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Secure security guard, we have our security guard here, right? We have or maybe if there's a caravan, you hire a security convoy for the caravan. You know, when the banks have? I don't know if they still have it? Or is there something in the movies? Do they still deliver money to the banks? I don't know. But if they deliver money to the banks, those those armored cars always have security. Okay, you're paying the security guard and amount of money. Do you know how much work you will need to do? Is there going to be a robbery that he has to protect from or not? Do you know that? No, if there is no robbery, if nothing happens, that's what we hope for hamdulillah our security guard just

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walks and enjoys and Masha Allah says salaam to all of us, right? May Allah protect all of us and all of the Muslims. But if something were to happen, right, what responsibility we will be on the security guard is much more than for the rest of the year. And he's not going to get an extra pay raise for that. Is it? It's an unknown? And Dr. Mustapha? Because this is the same as as what? Insurance? Right, and he has other, you know, issues as well. Now.

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Other other you know, other scholars said that? Well, no, the horror is in the individual transaction one on one, you're looking at the company, and you're saying there's no huddle, but individually one on one, there is and then you know, other points as well that they responded to this now. Therefore, that having been said, before we move on to the next half, that was half of my response. So we have summarized now what is insurance, the history of insurance, the fact that Muslims, generally speaking have prohibited and the reasons of their prohibition. And the fact of the matter is, statistically speaking, you can count the people who have said insurance as a concept

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is halal. On the fingers of one hand, the big names that have said insurance is halal. You can count on the fingers of one hand, everybody else in the Ummah from all the different, you know, groups of fit of Islam and even the mainstream theological groups within Sunni Islam. They've all looked at this, and they've said that the concept of insurance goes against goes against the Sharia. That having been said, we now move on to the more pertinent issue. See here is where many good Muslims may Allah increase them in their goodness and their Eman. They fall into an error. And they don't understand that the Sharia Yes, abstract why something might be forbidden or haram. But at times the

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application in a particular context becomes permissible because of the context. This is something that every alum worth his salt knows this is something well known. Fear is not something that is purely abstract and theoretical.

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And the average, loving, caring, zealous Muslim doesn't understand this. And the average Muslim wants to know the abstract and then thinks holla that is it. And when somebody comes along and says, Well, yes, that is the abstract, but in this situation, perhaps it is permissible. Sometimes our Muslim feels Oh, the scholar has betrayed the Sharia. He doesn't know anything, because I know that to be haram. Ironically, pretty much everyone says insurance is haram. And pretty much everyone says, in some cases it becomes permissible because of the context. Do you understand and there is no denial? There's no contradiction. There's no contradiction, because this is what fic really is. This

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is the reality of fic. To take the theoretical abstract is easy even the beginning student or undergraduate in Shediac can do but to then apply. This is the difference between a medical student and a doctor of

00:35:00 --> 00:35:41

30 years, right? The medical student reads the textbook and doesn't understand, hey, the case in front of me has a slight change. The textbook says it, I must do it. Whereas the Doctor of 30 years knows Hold on a sec. That's the general rule. But the case in front of me because of my extreme because of this, and that it is an exceptional scenario, right. And this is where a lot of times end we find the tension happening between the neophytes and the new younger students who have knowledge versus those that are well respected. And that's why the same councils that said insurance is out on without exception in every fatwa, they then come back and they say, however, in such in such

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circumstances, it might be permissible for those people. You see that you see the point here, right. And so we now get back to applying this theoretical to applying the abstract to, to what, to the reality to the real situation. And

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this is where we say that pretty much all the fifth counsels that look at the situation of Muslims in minority lands, they all give concessions in some scenarios for those minority Muslims. You see, there is no contradiction here at all. And that's what I need to impress upon you. And there are specific fifth counselors that are based in the West. And there are filled counselors in the east that are aware of what is happening in the West. And that is why when you look at their fatawa, which I have looked at all of them say theoretically, conceptually, insurance is not allowed. However, in certain circumstances, it becomes permissible because of the overriding need because of

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the necessity because of the hardships that would be faced otherwise. And so for example, I'm Gia which is the American Muslim jurists Association, which is based here in America, or the European Council for fatwa, which I love. I'm Jen, I love our field council that I'm a part of, but the filk field Council of Europe frankly speaking, it scholars are of a more global nature and more well known. Great. Jokes aside, I sit on the fifth Council in North America, Chef Calabar. We used to sit on the fifth Council of Europe, there's a world of a difference. Okay. There is no comparison with my utmost respect to all of us here. The fifth Council of Europe is the senior most counsel in my

00:37:27 --> 00:38:00

humble opinion that deals with Western affairs, because the caliber of people who sit on it are at a totally different global level. That's because there are more Muslims in Europe, by the way, and that's because they've been in Europe longer, we are still new in America. And things are different. For us, our quantity is less, we've only been here in large numbers since the 80s. Whereas in Europe, they've been since post World War Two. So things are different, the concentration is higher. So we are giving excuses for ourselves. But I am telling you as somebody who sits on the fifth Council of North America, I personally respect the European Council immensely because of the caliber

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of people on it. And actually there was in England two days ago and I met with the president of the Council to discuss certain issues of filk as well. So the point being the European Council of the European Council of fatwa and research has given a detailed fatwa about insurance and they concluded conceptually, insurance is not allowed. And then in its ruling, which if you want to look up and I encourage you to do your own research, ruling number 25 slash seven dash six, it ruled that according to the vast majority of scholars of Islam, insurance is not in accordance with the principles of Islamic law. But in light of the goals of the Sharia, and the situation of Muslims in

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Europe, then there are situations where it would be permissible to take insurance. And the fatwa mentions three things in particular, as examples not as a comprehensive list. As examples were the European Council, which at the time had shall use of Aqaba, we as its head and a galaxy of Rhoda Ma, if you know their names Faisal molvi. And Abdullah Zhu there and al Qaeda die and so many of the greater odema that are some of them are still alive, some of them had passed away, because this photo was given around 1718 years ago. So it's relatively recent, but still Yanni two decades ago, they said in three circumstances definitely should be allowed. Number one, they said, ensuring

00:39:25 --> 00:40:00

property insurance for the massages and Islamic schools. Because the loss is too great to replicate, having insurance against these structures that are the bastions of Islam. May Allah protect all of our massage at what would we do if some crazy guy comes and does something? How are we going to the loss that would happen? It is simply too much realistically for a community to cope with. Given that Balraj then the European European Council said to take insurance to protect the structure

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This is something that is permissible. Number two, they said

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ensuring one's private properties or cars or businesses from natural disasters like fires or earthquakes. Number three, they said health insurance where the cost is prohibitive to take reasonable health measures. I think this was a dig in America actually because you're a mashallah has all social health care's you know, that's a joke. But anyway, the fact was clear, where health insurance is prohibitively expensive, which is essentially America number one on the list, then health insurance becomes a need and a necessity, and it becomes permissible to take. And if in, they concluded, and they said, As for life insurance, the committee has paused discussion because of its

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controversy. And they will look at it in a later fatwa, which they did, and I'm going to come back to Okay, and

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in another font to the images, the same European Council photo number 30 Dash 230 slash two dash eight, they said that, so they discussed life insurance in that photo, they said that life insurance was not allowed. And this is the position of the vast majority of the council's and they did not make an exception for western lands. So, the European Council convened 1718 years ago, discussed insurance and allowed specific insurance for Western people. And they said Life Insurance problematic let's discuss it a few years. They did discuss it a few years later. And they issued a fatwa that life insurance doesn't meet the criteria for hardship for doTERRA. And so they did not

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allow it, but they made an exception. And they said, Only if the company offers it without you signing on. So it's something that you're not paying for, or, or you're not opting into it or you're not, it's not something that you are, you know, directly getting separately, it's coming from the company, in this case, you are not getting it as a third party entity, or they said, if there is a type of insurance policy that the government does, which is totally separate, when the government gets involved, right, then it's really not the interest that we understand. It's the type of taxation. So they gave an exception, you know, social security, whatever, that doesn't come under

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this as all. So therefore, to conclude this issue, and then have one issue that and we're done, to conclude this issue, it is very clear, and Allah knows best that theoretically speaking, the concept of insurance has major problems. And it goes against a number of fundamental tenets of the goals of Islamic Sharia Islamic finance. Nonetheless, in circumstances where life becomes unreasonably difficult, where it is not possible to live a regular life, or where the government forces you to get insurance. And Amgen also has a fatwa about car insurance and health insurance in America. And I'm just based here in America, and the third counselor as well in that I'm about as a fatwa. All of

00:43:03 --> 00:43:43

these counselors have said that car insurance is something that is mandatory, and you cannot live in this land without a car. So you are allowed to get it. But I'm just says you should get the minimal amount possible. This is just factual. And health insurance is prohibitively expensive health in this country. And so it is not possible for an average person to live in this land, you know, without having health insurance. And so they said it is it is something that is permissible to get. And the fat will also says By the way, which I found interesting, I'm just far too I also said that the Muslims should also push for social reform to get they didn't say Obama care, but essentially,

00:43:43 --> 00:44:20

get it something that is halal. Because once the government takes charge, then it's clearly Hello, right? When everybody the government is allowed to give you anything at once from your taxes, right? So the building roads schools are free. And if the health is free, then there's no issue. And frankly, speaking from an Islamic standpoint is much better, as well. So if you want to become of that party simply because of this issue that we have. I'm just what would that suggest and we don't quote me on that. Okay. final issue that is related to this insurance. Obviously, the question comes about working in insurance companies working in insurance companies, and the European Council and

00:44:20 --> 00:44:59

Amager have looked into this issue and they've come to very similar conclusions. Essentially it is the same conclusion. And the European Council in 2008 10 years ago released a fatwa. That said, the base ruling or the default is that it is not allowed to work in commercial insurance companies. However, exceptional circumstances can be granted and they gave some examples primarily if a person is not able to find a job. So rather than remain homeless or without a job, this is a note or a but they said an amateur said the same thing. If a person is not able to find the job, and that's the only job they have

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They cannot

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accept it a status quo. And they have to actively work to find employment in another field and not like this employment, not be happy with it, and know that this is a temporary situation until Allah subhanaw taala finds a way out for them until they find an alternative source. They're allowed to work in this in this environment. And that is because again, we're talking about something that the entire industry is haram. If the entire industry is haram, Muslims cannot be employed by that industry. We cannot be employed by Budweiser can we? We cannot be employed doesn't matter if you're an accountant for Budweiser, we cannot be employed by generally speaking directly by a bank. Because

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we don't believe in that enterprise of banking. Similarly, insurance, the entire enterprise is based upon this. So the fact we're from these councils is that should be avoided. Now, last point here, and then I'm done. And I know there's a gazillion questions because each one has specific scenarios, inshallah we'll try to answer them as I walk up, but I can't open the floor now or else we will never finish tonight. The last question that I'm disappointed I'm done. There is an exception, though, for working for insurance or banks. And that is, if you are working for a third party company, and you are a consultant and and your third party company assigns you to these industries

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for a period of time

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and you're not able to get out of it. Sometimes you're able to choose your job, then you should choose it if you're not able to get out of it. In this case, your employer is halal. And your job and expertise is halal. Your employer has contract to do to something that theoretically is haram and it's not good. But the fatwa has come that Okay, in this case, you can't really pick and choose every single thing. So because your employer and you is a halal contract, if they put you to an insurance company for six months or whatnot, if you can avoid it fine. If not, then you are forgiven because your employer is not the insurance agency. It is the third party and with that inshallah we

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come to the conclusion of today's fatwa. And we'll come back in sha Allah to Allah. For our next session, Zack maloca, Santa Monica to La Habra, cattle

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