How To Become A Strong Muslim Leader
Channel: Tom Facchine
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The Welcome back to Keene Institute's live stream every Thursday night at 9pm. Eastern time.
Let us know, hit us up very, very important exciting guests to discuss with us some very important things.
As has been the case for the past several weeks, we're still thinking and praying
feeling for us the ground and has resumed temporary ceasefire or pause whatever you want to call it was allowed to expire. And we've been flooded with more and more horrific images and videos.
Some of the individuals that many of us have
to know personally in love have been referred to was was one of them, along with many others. So we've got today's gonna be a little bit different. Normally, I take the first segment of the program to interact a bit, though, of course, welcome everybody, buddy.
From everywhere across the world, we have Michelle Lawson, we
what we're going we have such a specialist tonight that we want to maximize our time with him. So we're going to
right away, and we have a very, very important topic to talk about, which is about the leadership that is
required from us. The characteristics develop, how are we going to basically chart our way forward a lot of time we pay attention to the systems, but we neglect the individual tool. And if we see I think, and the doctor, Dr. todich, who was our guest, our doctor thought it this way, then we'll give more information, of course, and about this point. But if you think about the spirit of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,
that one thing that he was was a builder, of people, and someone could argue was spent in Mecca was a period where the prophet it said that was building people was what's helping to construct and constitute the qualities and develop and cultivate the qualities within people that they would need for the way forward. So as we think about our role and everything, and where we go forward from here, how do we sort of
chart a path and help our brothers and sisters Stein and beyond? We can't neglect the personal qualities that we need, the the fact that every movement needs leadership, and what's that leadership going to look like? And how is it going to play out? So without further ado, let's welcome our guests onto the program. We have Dr. Vivek Soi, then, and a very illustrious career, very, very well known throughout the world. He's the CEO and owner of golf innovation group in Kuwait. Previously, he was the general manager of a receta satellite television, that's one of the top television channels in the Middle East. He's got his PhD from the University of Oklahoma, he
spent 20 years living in the United States. And he's been recognized as one of the most popular Islamic speakers in the Arab world. He was one of the 500 most influential Muslim as of 2022. He's authored over 100 books on Islam and history. His focus is in the Sierra, as well as leadership and strategic management. Part of that has resulted in training over 100,000 students in management and leadership. And he's established five schools in five American and Canadian schools on social media. He's got a presence of over 18 million followers on Facebook and Twitter. And we don't say that because because the truth is just by popularity, but just to demonstrate that, that Dr. Todrick is
somebody whose work has received wide recognition from a great amount of people and we sure appreciate his presence with us tonight. So we'll bring him on and welcome to the program Dr. todich.
Up he's still backstage, we're going to just take a minute to get things sorted out here. He's calling in from Kuwait so sometimes when we have here we go.
Yeah, doctor, so much. I'm sorry that you started your program late, but we just played video here. So the couple
to cover let me know.
So we have very, very important I've been reflecting the past few weeks because I've gone to the some demonstrations. I went to the National march on Washington DC, which was the some estimates said it was attended by over 300,000 people. I've gone to local marches in the various cities sort of in my locality that were smaller. Some of them were organized by masajid. Some of them
And we're not some of them were organized by secular groups. So one of the things that I wanted to talk and have you speak to today was the sort of divide between secular and religious activism. And then maybe we'll talk about leadership within sort of social movements and how to really create an impactful change something that I know, especially our young people, will benefit from greatly. So the first topic talking about secular activism versus religious activism. There's a sense, in America, I'll speak from my own experience, I'm not really sure about how things are overseas. But there's a sense that if you want to be active, to speak up for the Palestinian issue, that you
almost have to play into secular politics, or that the secular organizations are doing much, much more than religious organizations and masajid. I wanted to so therefore, the thing is that young people are then pulled into more secular spaces, and they feel often that they have to leave their Islamic identity behind them. I wanted to ask you to speak to this, why do you think are the reasons behind this sort of situation. But again, thank you for inviting me. And it's an honor and pleasure to be with your audience.
Our hearts and minds have been occupied with the situation in Palestine, I have been very active and this and,
of course, as you know, in our countries,
because of the political situation here, the freedom of speech is not as much as you have in the United States. And that caused me a lot of trouble. But again, this is part of activism is that you take the challenge, and you receive the pressure and you
overcome the pressures and continue.
The situation of activism and the Middle East here is probably the opposite of what you're mentioning there. We don't almost see any secular movement
that is active anymore. It's only Islamist, that are really active. rarely, rarely, we have heard about any secular organization that has any influence, and in any issue almost. So it is not a matter of
that secular is better or more active or
they work harder. I don't think that is the situation as much as who is behind it. And how do they do it? Now to do to answer your question. Let me let me switch a little bit. And from that we will understand, what is the difference between Islamic leadership and leadership in general? What is the difference? And when I asked my students this question, many of them they will say it says the same thing, at the end of the day is leadership. No, it's not.
To understand this, we have to understand what is Islam in very in a general sense, Islam is three things.
The there is the faith. There is the ethics. And there are the laws.
These three things comprise Islam. And if we want to call anything Islamic, then it has to abide by these three things. So that's a difference between Schneider leadership and leadership. So and then in leadership, their goal is not Allah subhanaw taala is so the faith is not there. So that is a major difference that Nia is what changes everything. And the Prophet SAW Selim said in the Malama, Nia, it is only counted by what is your intention behind it. So that is a major difference. The other major differences, epics, we have certain ethics that the prophets Allah said, and the Quran have set for us, and we have to abide by them. So if you to be an Islamic leader, or an ethical or
Islamic activist, then you have to abide by the ethics of Islam. And the third thing is the Islamic laws. And there are not many here.
By the way, we have it has been counted that laws in Islam, our laws in the Quran comprise only 3% of the Quran. But there are laws that we have to abide by, for example,
if we have a meeting for activism, you cannot serve up vote. So that's just a simple example. So if you abide by these three, then you are an Islamic leader. Now, leadership itself isn't as there is no difference. So this goes the same way with activism. But the tools and the
methods of activism both ways, whether it's Islamic activism, or secular, this the same. And I have worked with
political organizations when I was in Washington, DC, I worked in politics for two years there. And they worked with, with the White House and the Congress, etc. So, but the difference between us is not the tools or not the methods, it is it is the
application of these three things in everything that we do. So this is how I see the difference. As a matter of fact,
because of these three things, we can do activism in a better way, and in a more consistent way. And
our personal gains are not there, many people will use activism, to take a share of whatever they collect, for example of donations for themselves. We don't do that in Islamic activism. So, again, I think also, at the same time, as you mentioned, that
if secular activism is more effective than Islamic activism, then you should only need to do is learned methods and the tools that they use they're using, and that case, you will you'll overcome and exceed what they do.
I say thank you very much. So I'm really glad that you mentioned the split between maybe North American activism and activism in the Arab world, those of us who are engaged heavily with the Palestinian cause, and who are bilingual and engage in consume media from both notice a very large divide. The chants in English are very different from the chants in Arabic. The language that's employed often in protests and demonstrations, in, in the western world in English are very different from the types of things you have more prayers, you have more mention of a law, you have, you know, much more religious language, and it seems like religious commitment from people who are
championing the Palestinian cause in the Arab world and beyond. There's a perception. There's a perception that within the youth in America and North America that are passionate about the Palestinian cause, that the traditional Islamic way, is not really getting it done. Now, you mentioned about techniques like okay, well, if there's something that the secular activists are doing, that the religious or traditional ones aren't, then that should be a pretty straightforward,
pretty straightforward solution is just sort of educate yourself about the tactics and then apply them. But are there any other reasons why maybe religious activism or Islamic activism might be perceived as inadequate that is sort of driving maybe some of the youth to being frustrated? Definitely.
Before I go into that,
there has been a survey by Gallup, in the Arab world, and in general, in the masses, religion, religion is really part of our daily life. And,
for example, in Kuwait,
those who the simple question was asked, Do you consider yourself religious? And in Kuwait, for example, the answer was 84% said yes.
In other countries, it reached 99%.
So, so we don't see this divide. I mean, when when we go into demonstrations, protests, and we have our slogans, etc. And we don't we don't think the same way that the Muslim youth in the West do, because shouting in the name of Allah and for the cause of Allah and jihad, and the shahada, etc, is just normal for us. I think this is
this is something that your youth has to take into account, because sometimes the laws would not allow it. For example, for us to say from the river to the sea, is something that is very normal. And we have no question about it. That is,
when we when we shouted, You will not be just because that is that is the normal way that we think and see it. And the West, you might be best suited for that, for example. So I think your youth are very smart. And I have trained
a lot of young generation from America, Canada, Australia, and the West. And I see I see a huge difference, frankly, between our youth and the Muslim youth from the West.
Let me say something about this. After training, so many people will Mahaffey the best or the youth that come from the west.
They know the tools, better the techniques, the laws, they know, management much better. So, they have taken the best of two worlds and put them together. And that brings them into a higher level of commitment and achievement. So, but at the same time, you are, you are governed by certain laws that we are not governed by, and they should be, they should be careful about it. And,
for example, I have been into trouble even here, because I was not careful about just certain words.
So, my advice is be careful, because continuity is much more important than shouting one slogan. And views as we mentioned the techniques of the West to do activism.
For example, let's, let's give an example here of, say, the Red Crescent, compared to the Red Cross.
Okay, so we have the Red Crescent here in Kuwait in many Muslim countries, and they are in charge of the official donations of Kuwait, to transfer them to firstly,
I have been when I was in the West, I was, I established several organizations, and one of them is charity, and the relief organization and I worked with Red Cross. They're taking techniques are amazing, really amazing. And we I learned a lot from them. And I would advise strongly that
we continue to let especially the brothers and sisters in the West, learn from these people. I mean, the Red Cross is able to mobilize 30,000 volunteers within 24 hours.
We don't know how to do that. So these are techniques and methods, and using management and leadership. So to channel it to our cause. So you have a big advantage. I don't see, I see that we are in the disadvantage, not you.
Right. So, Michelle? Yeah, no, I've watched several of your interviews, mashallah, at this point, and I do appreciate that point. It's also my observation. I think that, you know, there's some interesting, one of the things that I notice about the youth and the young generation, those that are younger than me, at least, is that they're they don't have sort of the post 911 mentality of trying to hide away their Islamic identity. I've actually heard several of them complain that if they step into a space of other, say, non Muslims, people who are protesting for the Palestinian cause, they'll actually speak out and complain, if they feel like their Islamic identity is being
erased. Why did you invite us for a protest, I've heard this, for example. And it's we have to pray it over. And you didn't schedule into the, into the, you know, the schedule of the day's events of time to break over. So now we have just people randomly sort of doing it. So I think that's tremendously encouraging that the young people are they want to, they have the, the data, right, they have the the the the techniques from the west when it comes to management and these sorts of things, which, if you go back to Bob, right, and how innovative he was, with his daughter as a Halifa, you see this sort of very, very wise and opportunistic, almost an entrepreneurial attitude
towards what are the techniques and what can we apply and leverage and what can we use, but the foundation of it, as you said, at the very beginning is the Islamic faith is the belief the limits that Allah has set in his law, and that the Islamic ethics, I want to
just quickly, I put it in the Encyclopedia of history, and I have written four books about the philosopher and I went into the details of say it now.
So in American Football Club, is one of the major examples of management in Islam.
Many people don't know this, that Omar did not invent anything almost. He used the management system of the persons
to the surprise of many, that the ministries
We have Amargosa Bob, he divided the country into ministries. And these ministries
are at that time is called the one, these the ones
are all based on promotion management. Not only that all the books of these ministries are written not in Arabic, they were written in Persian. And that continued all the way to the time of the Umayyads until they are rabbis. So we have no problem in using the other people's systems or methods or even language to mobilize our work. So our greatest example, I'm a prophet that did that. So this is my advice, use it, laminate,
transfer it to the Muslim world, we really need it, because I've studied the West deeply. And one of the major things that made the West overcome the world is management. It is it is in every part. If you go to running the Ministry of Health, its management, they go through managing
dedication, this leadership and management. So in every party, you will see it. And unfortunately, the management systems in many of our countries are backwards, now they are improving it but but in the West, it is it is very advanced. So laminate and use it and transfer it to us.
That's wonderful advice. And one last point, I want to get your comment on before transitioning to talking about leadership qualities that our youth need to develop. And that is maybe a bleed over from what you've, you've brought to our attention about the asymmetry between very good management skills and very poor management skills. Now, I don't think it's it's a, it's a secret. And I'm not trying to, to embarrass anybody by saying that sometimes even here in the West, the poorest run institutions are some of the poorest run institutions are, unfortunately are masajid, that they're not managed properly. And they don't have very much capacity, you have somebody who's a religious
leader, who is expected to do the work of maybe three, four or five people and is compensated in a way that you know, he has a very, very humble lifestyle. And then we look at, well, why can't we mobilize people in the way that you're mentioning? Why can't we get a protest of 300,000. And I really studied this this national March that I went to in Washington, DC I looked at who are the nine organizations that ran it, I read through dozens, probably over 100 of the organizations that endorsed it. And I'm thinking to myself, while I was studying how this thing came together with the buses and chartering buses and the you know, the media campaign, why can't we do something similar?
Why can't the Muslims within the religious organizations do something similar? And I couldn't help but reflect on the way in which our masajid are run? And unfortunately, many of the religious organizations that we have,
I'm not sure if it's a comment or a question, but but when it comes to the youth, and then they see, for example, this is what is my concern is that when they youth they go to this March, and they see how well run it is. And it was done all by organizations that have nothing to do with the traditional massage. And then they tried to go to their masajid. And things are very dysfunctional, and they feel disempowered, and they feel like they don't have a voice or they're not able to change things. I'm very afraid that those youth are going to associate those things with Islam itself, and then it will impact their they're going to have a bad experience and it will carry over. Could you
maybe comment on that phenomenon?
Yeah, I know of the amount of time that's happened in Washington DC because my family was there. And they participated in that. So they told me a lot about it. But not only that, I know of some of the organizers and in the mulch
management is a skill that is not born with you. It is a skill that you learn. It is a skill that you learn from people who are experts in that field. You cannot learn it from religious books. It is not there.
Yes, there have been some writings of Islamic scholars about management. But again, this is only the thing is touching the surface of management, not the depth of management. Why are our massages not long? Well, because they have not been trained to be a to run well. How many Muslim Imams
Know how to write a strategic plan, or operational plan or a balanced scorecard or say, for example, a training program for the youth, etc, etc. There are skills that we use, for example, you have meetings, everyone has meetings, but we have methods now in management, that in within one lie I'm not, I'm not exaggerating, within 1/4 of the time, we can achieve four times of the results.
It's not something that I invented. It take, for example, I teach creativity. And I, we encourage our youth and we encourage our audience to be very creative. But that is not enough. You have to teach them how to be creative, and how to be creative, there is a system there are seven steps, you follow them, you become creative. Now, if you don't know the seven steps, you will not be creative. So
of course, there are exceptions exceptions, but that is the exemption. So again, I would advise strongly that our Imams, our leaders have the massages on next generation to learn this. It's available in universities in the West, it's available in training programs, it is available vice versa. Today, that in one example, I'm going to teach an inshallah and January full seminar to the leadership of Islamic workers in Australia. And they will do it in English. So, again,
why don't they do it? Because they don't know? How do we solve that by by teaching them and training them on that. And then especially
now, Hamdulillah, we have many young leaders like yourself, that have to take the torch and undo it.
This is a false beard.
I am 70 now. And it is it is time that we transfer the torch to someone else to carry it. And we can teach you how to do it, we have done it. And Hamdulillah I have stablished in my life 98 organization, I've written 125 books, 60% of them are on management and leadership, and so on. So we can we can teach easily. We know how to do it. And you can learn it also even easier, because we have learned it from the West, and you are living in the West, you can learn directly from the scholars in those.
Sure. No, that's that's fantastic. So one of the things I think that you're emphasized that I want the viewers to make sure that they they register and appreciate is that we have to have a cultural shift even within our own masajid and our own institutions that we can't just abandon them as just Oh, it's a place that you open the key and then you go and you pray and then you go home, that it needs to be a place where these things are taught and the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam he said in Allah kettlebell accent, coalition, right, is that Allah Subhana Allah has decreed excellence in everything that you do. And subhanAllah. If we can't establish excellence in the
masajid we can I
go back to my memories.
The first seminar I ever taught on management was in the masjid in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
And I taught I taught them a full scope
seminar on management. And that was in 1986.
So, so I wasn't, yeah, so it can be done. And it was done in massages. And I would encourage that we again, we we, as you mentioned, massages are not only to pray and get out in the masjid should be an institution that would do the activism in the whole community around it.
Yes, and as one of our commenters mentioned, susu he said that this is why we need to also diversify our careers within the community. Unfortunately, some people are only focused on medicine or engineering, which is great, but we also need people to learn these skills to help our on the masajid run trainings and to have everybody sort of raise raise the bar well, so my advice, no matter what your specialty is, you you should them management, because what everybody do, you you will need management, either for your personal projects, or even if you are a doctor, and one day you have to manage a hospital. Now if you
manage the hospital, then it's 90% management and 10%. Medicine. So learn it early on. So when the time comes that you would need it, your you'll be ready for it.
That's great advice. And frankly, you know, my first degrees in in political theory, my second isn't sure Yeah. And I never learned anything about leadership or management until I came back to the States.
I also had a sheikh, tell me pulled me aside and said, Listen, you really need to pay attention to this, you need to start reading books here some books on leadership and management. And even in your marriage, even with your children, even with, you know, just relationships in general, I, it was something that was not on my radar, but something that I continued to benefit a lot from. So let's, let's pivot to a second line of question. We want to talk about the actual qualities of leadership, especially with the youth many of our youth are listening right now. Maybe they want to do something, they're tired of what's going on in our country supporting them, maybe perhaps our
country in the United States is the most responsible for what's going on in in Gaza Philistine, they want to do something about, they have ideas even, but maybe they lack certain qualities that are needed to lead a movement or just whatever they want to do, what are some of the most important essential qualities that they're going to need to develop? If they want to be a leader, Mikko that we have to answer a question. Are you born a leader? Or are you made into becoming a leader? And that question has been answered in so many different ways? And I prefer this answer, that there are leaders who are born. And one example for that is the Prophet SAW Salem, when he appointed Osama,
to lead the last army before his death Salalah.
Osama at that time, was 17 years and a half.
appointment did not go without objection.
The Army objected to this appointment. And the first one to object was
their loved one. And he said his famous words Amerasia. In Asobi, he appointed a boy to lead us
and that spread that file. And almost all the army started to say the same thing. I mean, what we are going to face that we're the second greatest
power in the whole world, the Romans, and we are led by a boy. So that was a very dangerous appointment. The Prophet SAW Selim was sick at that time. And he that this was did not reach him until three days, just three days before his death. So he made the speech. And in the speech, he said many things in this speech is one of the things that he said were
top and Luna fee Emirati Osama you object to the leadership of Osama for Wallahi in the hula Holly upon Bill Imara. Cannot can Abu Allah, I swear by Allah, that he is born into a leader
like his father was born into a leader. So this is a very direct clear answer, that there are people who are born leaders. I'm Robin, alas, was born into a leader say normal. Tom says about ambling Alas, Lion Barry Larrabee, Abdullah and the MC Allen lamea. Above doula I'm gonna be the last should not walk on this earth
as a follower, God should always be a leader. So, there are people who are born leaders, but the percentage is between one and 2% only. Now, most people are not born into leaders and we can train them to become leaders. So, leadership, either you have it or you can get it.
Now, how do you become a leader if you are not born into a leader? If you are not, then there are several approaches.
And this is I'm talking scientifically speaking here. One of the major approaches is the goes back to your questions of question, what are the qualities of a leader we specify them, we train our young generation on these qualities and then they become leaders. So that is one approach, but that is not the only approach. There is another approach and that is, forget about qualities total.
Laws of Leadership. There are laws of leadership. If you know the laws and
Know how to apply them, then you will come in either.
So for example,
going back to the first approach, what are the qualities? Now this question have been answered almost by all scholars of leadership, and I counted 225 qualities of leadership.
Now, are they all at the same level of importance? And this is another question that was answered by food research, great research done by causes and personnel, and for your audience to read, reference to that it is written in their book, The Leadership Challenge by causes and personnel available. And they have done a research trying to answer your question, what are the qualities of a leader of a leader that people would follow willingly.
And this research Chaffee, the first, the first results were published after 27 years of research.
And they have surveyed more than a million and a half people in all contexts. And they specified five, five major qualities. So, again, there are a lot that you can learn in leadership, there are many, many qualities that you need to be trained on. But
try to master these five. The first one is integrity.
And this is not an Islamic research. And they are they were like this is this is really nice. Integrity, what is it? So they went into the depth of it. And they,
they answer that by saying, being trustworthy, the truth telling
us how they pull me,
has the province of Los Alamos name before even he was given the message. So try to live with integrity. And the integrity is simple, what don't do what you don't work, don't say something and do something else simple. So that is the first thing, be a role model. The second one is have a vision,
have a vision, try to know, for yourself. And for those that you are leading, what do you want to achieve long term not shorter. So that is a major thing that you should look into. The third one is motivation.
A leader should know how to motivate the follows. And this is not simple. It's not just thanking them, and encouraging them, it goes much, much deeper than that.
Motivation is a system, meaning that I would study
those that I would like to motivate. And then I would know that this person is motivated by words, that while this person is only motivated by money, and this one is motivated by giving a chance of leadership and cetera. So we say it in a different way, we say every person has a key. So motivation is knowing which key to use. So that is a third thing that you should know. The fourth, the fourth thing is being competent, being competent, which means that you should then management, you should know how to manage it. So a leader needs to learn management. And finally, the fifth quality that they looked into is
being clever, being smart. And again, it's not the it's not only your IQ, that is part of it. But it's not only your IQ. Being smart is also a system that you can learn and apply. And you know how to use this method at this moment. And I would advise strongly that everyone would learn decision making, decision making, and many people think they know decision making, but this is very superficial. But I would advise that they go into the depths of it. And then there are methods for decision making. We have mini max Maxi, Max Bayes, butterfly, etc. So if you don't know these systems, then he would just do it by judging on your experience, which is good, but not enough.
Knowing these methods will make my mistakes much less There isn't. There is no way that I can 100% secure a good decision, but I can minimize the mistakes
So these are the major five qualities that I would advise that you focus on.
Excellent. Now, you mentioned that these even though this research is done by non Muslims that it pretty much squares with everything in the Islamic tradition and you are somebody who's an expert on the Sierra, can you give us some examples from the Sierra where the Prophet sallallahu Sallam demonstrated these qualities, that that these non Muslim Reacher's researchers are saying, Yes, this is you have to have it to be to be a good leader. This wouldn't be the the new session Yeah.
A big book
in two volumes, 900 pages on just answering this question. And that is the leadership of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. So I call this prophetic leadership. And what I did is that I took the system of leadership, there is a system, how do we do it? Yeah, it's very simple. First of all, we discover leaders, or we discover those who are potential leaders. And there's a full system for that. And then
we educate them
before we train them, so we teach them the behavior of leaders. And then we train them to be leaders, and then we train them on specialties. Like, family on on military, Abdullah, we must hold on
being a religious leader, and so on.
And then we have to do and this through an atmosphere of leadership. Now, every step of these have details. And in every detail area, in every detail, I'm not talking about the major ideas, and every detail, the prophet Salah Salem applied.
so when we sell for example, you're talking about discovering leaders. He did that Allah, allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. Now, of course, for margerine, it was easy, because he spent 13 years with them, before they started any, any Jihad any even building a state, etc. So he was in daily touch with them. And he knows that, but it is for Assad, that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, you can see it very clearly, for example.
One of the tribes of the RSR
they, they had many of the leaders.
And they almost decided on one of the leaders.
Now, in the first meeting, in the first meeting, that the Prophet SAW Selim when I met with them, when they embraced Islam,
he said, man say you do come?
Who is your leader? They said so and so? He said, No.
Let so and so leader, and he chose them to summon among them to lead. Now, this isn't the first meeting. He knows.
We have we have signs. We know. I mean, after training, so many people writing, I wrote nine books just on leadership? Well, yes, we all love him, you know, just half an hour or half an hour work, we would know that this person has it in him or
what what it takes to be edited. Of course, there are people that we would need to spend more time with, but those who have this quality, we can see it very quickly. The professor has set himself now
did he claim them to be leaders? Of course, of course, let me give you a very clear example. You know, see, and also, many of your audience know, that signified the dividend? Well, either they allow, I know, made mistakes, made major mistakes.
And then one of the major mistakes, he killed some Muslims by mistake,
and the other and when that was discovered,
what happened after that many people say that the Prophet Iserlohn took the hand of Omar fallot president and he said, I swear by Allah that I have nothing to do with this mistake of harlot.
But what happened after that
has continued to be a leader continue to be appointed, even with his major mistake.
We have a law now in leadership that if you start punishing your people, if they do mistakes, then you
You will have no one next year.
What you should punish is not the steps, what should you should punish is repeating the same mistake. After you told them that this is a mistake, then that is punishing.
So that is, for example, one of the rules applied to a certain president. Now,
let's take the example of Harley Davidson worried again and take the example of a Buddha Raja Lavon. A Buddha was the first man to embrace Islam.
In the first year of the message, not or the Europe federal, the first year of the message, he was the first man to embrace Islam. He was never appointed in any position.
The Cardinal Walid and unbelieving Alas, they embrace embrace Islam, on the seventh fear of Israel, not the seventh fear of Islam, the seventh fear of withdrawal, which is 20 years after fight, after a Buddha.
Both of them both clearly do normally. And I'm assuming the laws were appointed to lead only four months or five months after their Islam.
Now, let's apply this to Islamic organizations. Take for example, your masjid or any Islamic movement. I always challenge that my friends in the Islamic movement, I say, I'm not enough, you apply some.
Because you have conditions that to be one of our leaders, they must be with us 15 years or whatever. How many among you would be willing to let a young man or woman who is only four months into Islam, and let them be your leader?
The Prophet SAW said and did that. While
he a Buddha Radi Allahu Anhu was very sincere. And he came to the Prophet Salah Salem, and he said, Our Prophet of Allah, you will get appointments to everyone I want to say I want to be to get the reward like them. So give me any appointment. The Prophet SAW, Selim said, No, you are two weeks to be a leader.
So being sincere, and by the way, being knowledgeable, and well, that was very knowledgeable. So it not only says about a Buddha, Buddha, where our
Buddha is that bag full of knowledge.
But at the same time, he was never appointed the leader. So leadership is not being sincere. Leadership is not being knowledgeable, it's not getting a degree.
So these are, for example, some of the things that we we we we judge by that is that is irrelevant to leadership. And we can see it from a management point of view. And we can see it from the prophetic point of view, our approach our our vision of leadership, and how to choose them, how to appoint them, had to switch
and understand it from scientific point of view. And then the standard even from prophetic point of view.
Excellent points and fantastic examples. I'm sure all of our viewers appreciate. Appreciate it a lot. Let's imagine a scenario where we have a young person who's passionate and they want to start a movement, they want to start something and affect change.
How would you advise them? Where do they start? Some people they get overwhelmed at where to start? How would How should they go about starting a movement for change? And then maybe once they're up and running? How do they keep people engaged? That motivation that you talked about? That's a huge question.
Okay, let's switch a little bit.
Let me start with
this is how I teach it.
What is the difference between planning and change?
So looking at both, we would see that we start with studying the present situation, where are we now?
And we have to define our vision. Where do we want to go?
And then we have to set the system and the plan. How do we move from here to there?
So up until now, what I'm describing is planning.
And change has the same elements.
The present the future and the plan. But change has a fourth element that planning doesn't
up, and that is resistance. Whenever you try to apply change, then you should expect resistance. Now, resistance is a science
and this science have been studied deeply. And there are only only 20 methods that any resistance will use, whether you apply it within an Islamic institution or state or even the mafia, it's only the same 20.
So, to really being able to do change, you must master change.
And then you should master the knowledge of resistance. How do they? Or how are they going to approach it? And then we have another science called How do you resist the resistance, and there are 60 laws that are applied there. So again, you see, we have a system of resistance. Now.
There are equations. And again, because of my background, as an engineer, we put engineering into everything. So let me let me help
your audience, the younger generation, who are very motivated and shallow their future leaders, so I'll give you one of the major major equations of change.
To apply change,
there are three things that you should master.
Number one, is, is there enough pain,
there is not enough pain, people will not move, people will not change. So that is why, for example, it is much easier to have change in a poor country than a rich country. Because there's a lot of pain there.
It is much easier to have change in a dictatorship, than having it in a democracy. Because in dictatorships, you have more pain. So what is the level of pain? Now, if there is not enough pain, we can move people to understand that they should see pain. They should embrace pain, the pain is good. I mean, just imagine your body not feeling anything, then you'll be in trouble.
So that is the first thing. The second thing is you should master vision.
is your vision? Where do you want to move? Change is moving people towards a goal? What is that goal?
So if you don't know it, and you don't know how to relate it to others, then they would not move with.
The third thing that many people miss is what we call the first steps.
So for example, if you wanted to change in your masjid, so there is pain that it is not run well, etc. And you have a vision of what you want them to do. So will you be successful? No, until you master the third part. And that is the F and the F here is the first steps. And this is very specific. What are you going to do in the first 18 months.
If you don't master the first 18 months, then change will fail.
So for example, let's take the Arab Spring.
In Egypt, for example, there was a lot of pain.
They moved. And they had a vision by the way, and I've seen it it's written very well written, but they did not master the first steps.
So to me, while I was watching this revolution happening, I knew that it will not succeed because it did not meet the major equation of them. And that is one of nine major equations. So this is my advice. If you if you want to lead change, then you should study the science of change and understand how to take it from concepts into application.
No that's that's excellent advice. very eye opening and I think very new for a lot of people who are watching. Definitely it's motivating me to to get some of your books
some are available on Amazon and others.
So, sometimes one thing that everything you've said has sort of drawn my attention to is that not all actions are as impactful as others. And one thing I think that we struggle with, when it comes to, let's say, activism for Palestine and the Palestinian cause, we've got a lot of pain. Okay, we even have a vision. Okay, maybe this is first steps, maybe it's not, but I feel like the tactics that we use sometimes are the specific actions are more about expression than they are about impact. Sometimes.
Can you talk to us about how to channel the, the energy, right how to channel the pain, and how to, to select from the different actions that you could potentially choose? How to think through which ones are really going to have the most impact and help your cause the most?
the way I would look at anything is do we have a system it is not enough to have the motivation, it is not enough to be sincere,
we do have the system and the system starts with the understanding
what are the what what what do you want to do? I mean, many of our young generation, they know that they they want to do say a demonstration. But that is not the goal.
That is the method. That's the way and the question a very simple question, is this the best method?
Did you study that? Did you even think about it? Is that the best way to achieve it? Maybe Maybe lobbying is much better than doing a demonstration for example,
maybe the better the better way much better way for example, is focus for 20 years on wealth become very rich, and then use this money to move the media and the lobby like the Zionists are doing.
So, why did you choose demonstrations, demonstrations, by the way, are that
the easiest method because they are very short term, they
diffuse the heat in our hours.
And then we go back and we feel that we did something
but what is the impact
in management, there are certain criterias for example, now we teach KPIs, the key performance indicators. And for example, if we go to your masjid or any masjid or any organization, then they would say, Okay, we should our keep KPIs be, we should at least have
weekly activity, one major activity every year, etc. So, they they measured by activities, all of this until now, is performance, it is not effectiveness, it is performance. Now, today in management, we are moving away from KPIs into k e eyes, which is key effectiveness indicators. Yes. So, the question is,
if you did 10, demonstrations,
did that change anything?
Did it impact anything? What is your effectiveness behind it? So, you have to ask yourself a question. What do you want to achieve out of these demonstrations? Do you want to change the vote in the Congress?
Did that happen? If that did not happen, then you impact did not happen?
And sounds so what I see it even in the Islamic world, and I am in the leadership of many of my Muslim movements, what I see is a huge emphasis on what to do. But there is little emphasis on where do we want to go? What do we want to achieve? So we have a lot of activities even with our young generation, we have daily prayers and weekly lessons and maybe one trip per year, etc. So did that change anything?
What, what, what did you want? What do you want to achieve out of it?
So these simple questions how
has to be answered. So this is this is my advice to the young generation, lender lenders. And even if you don't learn it, just just sit down and think about it.
What do you want to achieve? And try to answer this question in a measurable way?
And then do whatever you want to do. But always ask yourself the question, did it achieve my measurable goal,
then this is the impact. So impact is not a mystery. It is something that we can plan for. And we can apply.
Yeah, yeah, one of the things I mean, I really appreciate the systematic way that you're or the way in which you're bringing systematic thinking. That was actually one of the things that attracted me to study and share. Yeah, because, you know, the books that I saw, are there, so systematic. And that's one of the major takeaways I have from everything you shared with us today that our thinking and our action, and our planning has to be more systematic, right, we have to actually think about these things carefully. And determine a course of action that makes sense and realize that there are several available actions, choices, tools at our disposal, and you almost need to unfurl them in a
sequence that's going to actually have the desired effect. Last week, I was at Columbia University. And I was talking to some of the students there, and they had a situation where their university had disbanded some of the student groups who were, you know, outspoken on the Palestinian issue.
And so we were kind of brainstorming, and I was just by chance, trying to encourage them to consider something similar to what you're saying. I was saying, okay, you've had demonstrations up to this point. But what other sort of actions have you considered? Or are you willing to do? Is there? What about a tuition strike? What about organizing the teachers to have a walkout? What about, you know, a teaching and education, just trying to get the brainstorming to think about what are all the different actions that, as you said, are according to our ethics, within the limits of Asana? And now let's look at what are we actually trying to achieve? And which actions actually help serve
serve our goals the best? I think that the whole at least I can speak for North America, I think that the entire pro Palestinian or the Palestinian cause, we really need to have this type of thinking, I think that it really, and we do have a limited amount of time, I think that there is urgency to it, as you said, the first 18 months, the first steps, we're not going to have this type of pain forever, right? It's the type of pain that we've experienced, watching the videos, seeing the children seeing people that we know, our family members, everything that's happening, this is some, this is lightning, that we have to capture into a bottle. And we have to take advantage of the
moment that we have, in the most intelligent way. And so I really, really appreciate one thing that you mentioned, that reminded me
studying frogs, and also
when I started that, it was very clear, very clear that Islam teaches us to be systematic.
And also, especially is the way to build a system. Now, for example, and this is when a small advice to your audience.
Being Shafi humbly cetera, you don't have to be, you don't have to be if you have a system, if you know this system.
But we don't have a system.
Then remember that these modalities were built around the system.
And this system is always applied, you cannot, for example, take the words of the companions as
low giving, and in one condition, and on one situation and another situation, you're refusing. That's, that's not being systematic. The mother had did that. And they applied it. And they result that resulted in this just now if you if you refuse them or die, and don't have a system, then you are very unsystematic. And this is not the way to understand even the laws of Islam. So really, if you can learn it even from also that to be very systematic.
Yeah, that's a brilliant point. And very, very important that, you know, we're not going to tell you which system but you have to have a system
That's because if you don't have a system, if you don't have a system, that's actually when your conflict of interest and your howa right start to play with, well, when am I going to apply this principle? And when am I not going to apply this principle? How do I ensure that I'm not applying it in a self serving way? Right. And that's the whole reason to have a system in the first place. Brilliant point. Is there anything so we've reached, you know, time, I don't see a ton of questions there any sort of closing remarks, remarks or shift that you'd love to leave the audience with today? Yeah, again, I want to thank you, first of all, for this opportunity, and thank your audience
that they are patient with us. But yeah, and again, I would I would really appreciate if the young generation, whatever their specialty is, to learn leadership, to learn management to learn, change management, and these sciences are available in the West. Try to learn the Islamic systematic way of thinking this will give you
an eye opening approach to everything, everything in life and we really need this in the Islamic world.
Thank you so much for the program today. It was an honor and a blessing and may Allah accept from us latika lovey thank you so much for this invitation and continue the good work.
So I think so so alikhan said the Lord.
Okay, there you have it, masha Allah, so a lot of inspiring words from Dr. Todrick suedette. And I think a very clear message, something to take away when it comes to the work that we can do. Sometimes we get, we just run out of ideas. We have a very poor imagination, sometimes four, what can we do to help our own well, what can we do to help Palestine we think about the usual things donating money, you know, sort of raising awareness. Calling congressmen are sort of typical sort of political things. But we forget to build up ourselves. We forget to build ourselves up and give ourselves the skills, strategies and tools that we will need for the long haul, in order to to help
our brothers and sisters in Palestine. And one of those things includes studying management techniques and sort of everything that Dr. todich spoke to elevating us, elevating our levels, elevating ourselves as individuals, collectively, our institutions, our masajid our charity organizations, we should really take the charge that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam gave us to be people of Sn to try to have to not just to have a sense in what we put out our effort for the world but also to construct our institutions and our movements for justice with SN as much as possible. So we hope that everybody benefited I know I certainly did, and we've got a lot of work to
do. So without further ado like to bid everyone farewell for tonight bail accepted from us, and inshallah Tada. We will see you next week. So don't worry come on after he already