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this villa Alhamdulillah, Salaam Alaikum. Peace be with you. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the deen show. We have a very exciting show with you with my next guest, Dr. Lawrence Brown.
We're gonna be talking about a subject that sometimes is kind of heavy for a lot of people. A lot of people might get a little bit uncomfortable talking about religion, talking about something that's very important. What's the purpose of life? Why are you here in this world? Where are you going when you die? Death is a scary reality, but it's a reality. But you got a lot of weird things attributed to religion. But when you dig a little deep, you see that it has nothing to do with God. People
attributing so many different superstitions by this fairy dust and you float in the air by this and you'd be safe. All of these things. You see the preachers and teachers out there propagating. And you know what, people are just sick of it. They're sick of being ripped off. They're sick of all the different things that now you know what? It just doesn't make sense, but we're gonna again try to make sense of it all. Here on the D show when we come back with Dr. Lawrence Brown. We'll be right back.
This is the
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Salaam Alaikum Peace be with you. Welcome.
Dr. Lawrence brown back on the deen show. How are you feeling? Pretty good. Thank you finding the time people can go to the deen show.com you have your conversion story and other great shows that we've done with you you have a PhD in religious studies you have a DD Dr. divinity you were trying very hard to be a Christian you used to be an atheist. Now you're one who've chosen consciously to surrender and submit to the One God that's a Muslim defining these words I feel are very important. Now you heard me open the topic. Religion is very heavy people don't want to talk about it. You know what many things have been attributed to the religion. You know, people I mentioned fairy dust.
People are selling these statues, icons, you know, these amulets and making money. It's become a big business preachers and teachers doing cartwheels. It's a big show Showtime, you know, a business. And you know, what is corruption? And people are exploiting people, and people are fed up. They're sick of it. But do we blame God? Or do we blame the people? Truth be mixed with false that people are fed up? What do you got to say about this? Dr. Brown?
I guess to begin with, I would back up because you said people are sick of talking about religion. One thing I have to say is no, actually people are not sick of talking about religion, people are very happy to talk about religion, as long as you agree with them, as long as they're talking about, you know, their brand religion. But but actually there, there are a lot of people who don't like to even be approached on the subject, they've become so sensitive, they sort of withdrawn into a bit of a cocoon. And
I think I think those sensitivities to a certain degree are understandable. For the reasons you just mentioned, you know, people are tired of being woken up on on Sunday morning by somebody knocking on their door saying, you know, can you know, can we talk to you about the Bible. They're tired of being approached in different ways.
They, you know, they, they, they see or have seen with their own eyes how religion has been manipulated, how charlatans have used religion to to misguide others to charlatans charlatans whose work What do you mean by charlatans? charlatans basically confidence men conman you know Hahnemann yeah basic basically people who are using religion as a tool by which to accomplish their worldly ends. They, they act like they're all pious and righteous while they're building a you know, $5 million mansion on the donations of their, of their followers. And they, you know, they're basically
they're basically ripping people off, as you said, ripping people off in the name of God.
Now, you heard me mentioned fairy dust. And you heard me mentioned and you just talked about it.
manipulation, stealing people's money telling them okay, no, if you and you see a lot of this late night, you'll stay up one night, and you come home and you feel something's missing, you might have just come from the nightclub, you might have just come from a breakup and you sit home. And now there's no one around, you got some peace of mind, and you reflect. And because it's a rat race of life, now you turn on the TV, and there's someone trying to exploit you. They're saying, you buy this dust, we put it in an envelope, and we'll send it over to you for for 999. And all your prayers will be answered. And now they attribute this to religion. And they attribute this to God, the
superstitions and all these other
ideas and gimmicks, and people just get fed up. What are your thoughts on you know, what, what can we say? I mean, we all know, we all know about this, the there are a lot of
there are a lot of, you know, so called holy things in, that are promoted in different religions, whether it's whether it's holy water, or whether it's an action, such as faith healing, or whether it is something being sold as a sacred amulet or something that will bring you good luck or just selling prayers, basically selling prayers. Yes. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I think whether we can just understand that, looking from a historical point of view,
everybody out there knows that there have been times in history when religion has been used to justify wars, to justify persecution, to justify genocide, to justify all kinds of different
atrocities, right, in the name of God. And, and yet, deep down, we know that these are not godly things, these these things that were done, in God's name, were not godly things. Now, you might find some people saying, Well, yeah, the the medieval Inquisition, the Spanish Inquisition, that was a righteous thing to do, because they have that mind point that is in support of their religious views. But I think the vast majority of people would agree that no, wasn't. I mean, it wasn't. I mean, torturing and killing people.
Just because you were intolerant of their beliefs. Is that something that we see in the example of Jesus Christ? Is that something that we see in the example of Moses, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, it's not something that we see in the example of any of the prophets. So how dare somebody come up with that? And say that they're doing it in the name of God.
But so, so although there may be some people who defend it, because because it fits their ideology, I think the vast majority of people agree that it was. It was a it was a crime. It was a sickness, it was genocide. And it doesn't matter whether we're talking about the, you know, the Inquisition, it doesn't matter if we're talking about different religious wars. If we're talking about colonialism, if we're talking about slavery, I mean, slavery was was founded upon a religious principle, the curse of ham. Okay, the concept, the concept that one of the sons of,
of Noah was cursed.
And in in being cursed, his people became people of color and became cursed to servitude. And on this on this basis, you know, on this on this basis, Christians justified the parasitic slavery that developed in the history of England and America they justified come out colonialism, were they con alized? Excuse me, were they? Were they colonial? alized different countries were the natives were darker skin than them on the basis of the curse of ham.
Tell us, Dr. Brown. Now, how should people approach this subject with your experience, even though someone might have left their child with what they presumed to be a righteous individual, another child is molested. You have an individual who took their whole life savings and they invested into this fairy fairy tale dust. And now you know what, they're really distraught. They don't know how to approach it the matter because they've been let down. Should they give up even though you have all these crazy things out there being attributed to the religion of the Creator of the heavens and earth?
That's, you know, that's really the crux of the matter. And the fact is, of course, they shouldn't give up. But I think what you see that a lot of people do do is they kind of retract into their own private beliefs. A lot of people have enough experience getting sort of, you know,
hurt either physically or emotionally. Okay, the number the number of people who were actually physically abused
by a man of religion are fairly few. But the number of people who have been emotionally abused who have found that in the end, the religion did not give them what they needed. I
found that over time, they they gave away a lot of their money, they gave away a lot of their effort, a lot of their, you know, a lot of their time and they took a great deal from their life. But in the end, they didn't get what they expected from the religion, they ended up feeling used feeling deceived. That number is fairly large. Let's take a break there. We're going to continue on with Dr. Lawrence brown here on a dean show, I just want to say very simple message. He is the main Dean, one of the beautiful things about our religion of Islam is the emphasis on direct ritual and prayer to God directly. There is no intermediary, the lights will go on after the party, and the
party will end. It's very simple and very clear. There are no superstitious rituals, no strange incantations Time's running out, we might not make it till tomorrow. And this is something that we need to think about.
Back here on the deen show with Dr. Lawrence Brown, it's always exciting to have you here in the studio. And we're talking about religion. Now, before we continue on, you know, people tuned in are not yet Muslim neighbors and brothers in humanity, they tuned into the de show because they want to see what these Muslims are all about. So we know in Islam, there aren't any strange incantations no superstitions, we don't sell fairy dust, we don't want to people's money. We just want people to really reflect what's the purpose of life? Why are you Why have you been created, and use the logic and reasoning that God gave you and ask God directly direct dial up for guidance. It's very simple.
God's not a man or a woman. He didn't walk the earth, you couldn't take his picture. He didn't have a zip code. He's the one who created all things. But he's not what he created. It's very simple. It's very rational. So now tell us, in your experiences with these people who again, they are what you said, emotionally distraught. What advice do you have for them? How can they get past this and look past this to continue their quest for the purpose of life? And why they're here on this earth? Right? Well, you know, here's what I think happens. A lot of people, they become so disappointed in religious institutions, they become so disillusioned, that they basically retract into their own
private beliefs. They go back to just saying, well, I believe in God, I believe in being a good person, I believe in the golden rule. And that's enough for me.
I tried this, it didn't work for me, I tried that. That didn't work for me also. And then I tried everything in between or what, whatever this person has tried in their life, it didn't work out for them. So they retract into their own personal beliefs, and that suffices for them. However,
many people, when they you know, when they are exposed to a religion that does not ask for their money, okay? It does not try to play tricks upon them. And it does explain what they have experienced up to this point. It does explain the disappointment, disappointment. Why were you disappointed because of this? Why are there people misusing religion because of that? You know, how does misguidance fit into all of this, it has a role, okay, there is a there's a reason why misguidance is there, etc, etc, when, when you can make sense of this, and show how the core beliefs. Now the core belief, being belief in God, belief that God had sent messengers over time
sent revelation over time, but that at the same time with each stage in Revelation, mankind corrupted it. And it's the corrupted
revelation that that remains in our hands in the Old Testament, in the New Testament, and so on. So that you can you can read this books and and the books of the Bible will not be completely satisfying, because you will find within them
jarring passages passages that are contradictory or that teach
things opposite to what we know to be the fiscal reality.
If you can explain all this, explain how all of this happened and how it leads to the conclusion of the chain of Revelation, how it leads to a revelation that completes God's revelation to mankind and that does not have does not have these
disappointing fallacies. Then Then people
Oftentimes they will find this very refreshing. Before we get to that part that I really want you to elaborate on, tell us. Now, for the person who says, You know what?
I do believe in God. I'm a good person, I just don't believe in follow following any organized religion. You hear a lot of people saying this. Sure. How do you answer this? You know, it's like living in a society, saying, Yeah,
I believe in America. And I believe that there are policemen out there. I just don't believe in following the laws. Well, you can't do that.
Our Lord is fair, and just
the injustices of this life will be corrected in the afterlife. In the afterlife, we are all going to stand for judgment. Right. Now.
As I said, Our Lord is fair. And just to establish justice, you need a few things, you need a judge. Right? Yeah, you need a court. You need witnesses, and you need a book of laws, right?
The court is going to be the day of judgment, the judge is going to be God, the witnesses are going to be the elements of creation that have witnessed everything that we have done, whether it is the angels that are observing us, or other people, or even we will witness against ourselves. Okay. But in the end, the book of laws is what it's the book of Revelation. Now, that is what we're going to be judged based upon. If you accepted it, if you didn't accept it,
if you did accept it, how well did you adhere to it? and so on. Okay, so you can you can go ahead, I mean, it's fully within your, your rights, to say, it's enough for me to believe to believe in God. And just to be in, you know, just to follow in the line of my personal beliefs. You can you can choose that religion if you want to.
But the question is not whether we choose that religion, but whether God chose that religion for us.
If you believe in God is one God, you have to believe that there is only one religion of truth. One, if there's one, Dodd, he's not going to write two laws. Not all rooms don't lead to Rome.
You know, I mean, it's just I mean, it's just pretty obvious, right? I mean, you never open up a box in which you've just bought a TV and find two different instruction manuals, right? Yes. I mean, you never get pulled over for a ticket by a policeman? And he says, well, let's, you know, which law Do you want to follow here? The one that says speed limit? 55. The other one that says speed limit? is one law. It's always one. Yes. Okay. There's always one law. Our creator is the Creator of the heavens and the earth. Right. And he has written one, as he is one, he has written one law for mankind. Now, that law may have changed over time. I mean, before Moses, people could have eaten
pigs, and after Moses, the law came down not to eat pigs. In the time of lot, incest might have been permissible afterwards, it was forbidden. You know, I mean, there there there are issues like this, which are touchy, but you can understand how they changed over time. Okay, but but the bottom line is in the same in the same way that the laws in our society evolve. When I was child, the speed limit was not 55. It was a lot higher. I can't remember but I think it was even 75 in some states, yes. Okay. So laws change with time. And in the same way, God adjusted the laws according to the capacity of mankind and the needs of mankind and the needs for to hold the society together. But the
bottom line is not whether whether you like the laws but rather whether God constructed those laws, and whether you are following what he has bitten mankind. We know death is a reality. People don't like talking about it. Some people might tune off right now. But you know, they love I'm sure what you're having to say. So they're going to God willing, continue to tune until we finish this show. But why is it so so important to discuss these matters and to have earnest desire to want to know the truth rather than just continuing to work from Friday to Friday, from paycheck to paycheck from nightclub to nightclub? living that life and then you hit the grave and it's too late? Yeah, saying
I'll figure it out, then. Is it too late to figure it out then or you need to figure it out? Now, when you die? It's over when you die, your book of deeds closes. That's it. And what you have put forward to the afterlife is what you have put forward in this life. I remember one guy just telling me well if I get to the day of
Judgment enough, I find out that I was wrong. I'll just look God in the eye and say, I'm sorry. Well,
you know, if it is acceptable for mankind to apologize in the Hereafter, if that is sufficient for salvation,
what's the purpose of hell? What is hell? Therefore? I mean, it doesn't matter if if you're talking about Hitler, or Stalin, or anybody who is perpetuated do the greatest atrocities in the history of mankind. They're all going to say, I'm sorry.
But the question is whether that's going to be accepted. Okay, and, and what we're what we're told, by God Himself, what we're told by, by revelation is that no, we are going to be judged based upon our faith, and upon our deeds. And that book comes to a close when we die, it's finished. That's got your shot right now. This is a sign itself. You're while you're watching, listen, is it making sense? We're not talking mumbo jumbo, we're talking about thing that it just makes good old common sense. Think of this life is a test. Yes. And at the conclusion of the test, the test book closes. You can't go up to the teacher after the test, period, pet test period, and say, you know, I'm
sorry. But I need to change something inside that test booklet. No, it's done. You had your time to study and that book, that test booklet is the period of our lives and when it closes, the test is over.
based upon what you did in that test, you're going to earn your grade and your grade is going to land you at whatever appropriate level of Paradise or at whatever appropriate level of Hellfire May God protect us from the Hellfire We'll be right back with more here on the dean show.
Me Why are you becoming Muslim? None I give a very frivolous on should I say I want to be on the side of the angels.
Of God Jesus. Number one rap artists in the world he sold over 60 million records was the millions the million. He was a young guy where basically everything that somebody you would think that life is all about he had everything you can imagine.
I'm not afraid to stand alone.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I am not afraid to stand.
Back here on the deen show with Dr. Lawrence Brown. And we're continuing on a very, very important topic. And people can tune in every week. This is what we love talking about. And it makes good old common sense. Some people now they just have a hard time letting go. They know that this Trinity doesn't make sense. They know that worshipping an idol doesn't make sense something in their very nature, their inclination, something deep down in their very souls. They know it doesn't make sense what these Muslims are saying that there's only one God you don't divide them like a pie. You give all acts of worship to the One God who is unseen. He's not a man or woman, but he's the creator of
man and women. That's the god we're talking the same guy that Jesus Moses and all the messengers of God, they worship this God, we worship that one God, no intermediaries, no one between us and him. But they cannot let go of what their forefathers did. My great, great grandfather, he passed it down to us, and they just have a hard time letting go even though they know that's not the truth. What advice do you give for them? Let go.
No, look, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people learn about Islam as the last religion they have learned about. And yet when they do learn about it, they say, Whoa, wait a minute. I mean, here's a religion that is teaching that God is one that all of the prophets, including Jesus Christ were men and prophets, that they bore revelation to mankind, but that that revelation became corrupted. Right, and is the different avenues of corruption that have led to the way that religion is manipulated in this day. Okay. But at the same time, there was a seed of truth in all revelation. And the truth was, what I have just said, the oneness of God, the the laws that he is conveying to
mankind, and that for us to achieve salvation, we have to follow those laws. But as you said, many people are afraid to let go of what they're holding on to because they fear that by letting go of it,
they will be left
Without a backup, so to speak, they won't know where to go next, kind of like a backup parachute. When you jump out of a plane, yeah. Now Okay, this was like the story that I we were talking about actually earlier today.
And just for for the viewers This story was about a an acquaintance of mine, who was on a parachute jump. He had he had a monitor by which he could hear the jumpmaster because, you know, it's very noisy. So you have to have an ear monitor. When he jumped
and popped his parachute. He didn't feel that jolt that you expect, right? Yes, yes. And at the same time that he looked up, he looked up to see that his parachute was spiraling, right? It did not open. And at the same time you hear the jump, he heard the jumpmaster, saying, Oh, my God, he's dead. He's dead. He's dead, because he's plummeting towards the earth and his parachute didn't, didn't open. And he said that, at that moment, you know that the right thing to do is to pop your directions and release that parachute and then open your backup. He said that at that moment, that was the hardest thing to do. Because Because you're just you're just hoping and praying, it opens,
it opens, it opens and you know that if you let it go, if you let that parachute go, and your backup doesn't work, then that's it for you. But he said that he summon the strength he let go the the parachute he parked, popped his backup it opened and his life to talk about it today. But the thing he said about that is that there have been a lot of people found dead on the ground without deploying their backup. And they went to the ground, hoping and praying, open, open, open, open, open and all the way to the ground until they hit. And that's that's how a lot of people are with religion. They're not willing to let go of something they know is not working for them. They know
it's not working for them. But they keep hoping that somehow it will come through for them until
the end, then it's too late. Forget about it, that it's too late. Now people want to get a hold of you. They like you, you are an atheist, you're trying hard to be a Christian. And now they can relate to you. They want to talk to you about atheism, they want to talk to you about some of your books, you got a few seconds, please tell them how they can reach you. Please visit my website level truth.com or eighth scroll.com these these are both these both websites relating to my books, my articles, my works, how I came to Islam. And as I said you'll find a lot of my writings there, click on the Contact Us button and it will come to me directly. Thank you very much, my God Almighty, the
creator Allah reward you for being with us. Thank you. Thank you.
And thank you for tuning in to another episode of the deen show. Come back every week, we're here Same time, same channel, and just let it go. If it doesn't make sense, let it go move on to what makes sense. We're not going to force this beautiful way of life on you. But just reflect if this made sense that you worship none other but the one God, the Creator of all that exists.
If you can dig that you can definitely dig the rest of Islam which simply means to acquire peace by submitting to the owner peace. The one god we'll see you next time here in the de show until then, peace be unto you. You have to pray as if everything depends on a lot and it does. But you must work.
Everything depends on you. And
that's my point. You see what I'm saying? And I don't like that. I don't like us sitting here. What are you waiting for? What are you waiting for right now? What are you waiting for all these people that come to Islam? What are you waiting for? What are we waiting for right now when they're gonna come they're gonna come along and bring these people lots of fun and put in our hands the ability to do it now. Do your job.