MUSLIMS CAN’T BUY REAL ESTATE Reaction to Sneak & Myron Wisdom of Prohibition of Riba(interest)
Channel: The Deen Show
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Muslims can't buy real estate.
He's being super strict because because of usury other Muslims can.
You can buy real estate but time Muslim and I tried to stay away from Riba. How much they'll try to give up pork fun. Alcohol said no moderate drinking isn't good for your health quit. We just have to accept the fact that like alcohol is not in your best interest as a man, and it's gonna set you up for failure is it the more you drink, the higher your risk of early death. Waste of time though, it really is a waste of time. A very good friend of mine, brother Eddie from the deen show, who I've known for a number of years from the very beginning when he started I was among his early guests and mashallah our brother Eddie has been very active in promoting Dawa spreading the message of Islam
and he has now taken everything to the next level. Edie has now after a number of years on the deen show taken the Dow up efforts to the next level, which is that of establishing a Dow a center for the USA. He is about to launch it in its fullness, but it has already started in Florida and he needs your support. This is an effort which began already some months back and they need your support for spreading the message of Islam in the USA. So my brothers and sisters reach out to support him. We need your support. Now.
Bismillah Alhamdulillah As Salam aleikum, greetings of Peace Now when new Muslims enter into Islam, sometimes they get hit with a shock. Oh my God, I don't claim to be a great Muslim because
how to give up porque fun alcohol, women gambling
knew about everything. I can't even invest my money. I gotta give up pork. Alcohol fornication gambling at a bar interest seems like everything. But shaytaan only makes it appear that way. This is far from reality. I say that these are even more proofs for the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him the Quran and Islam and we'll be getting into all of this with my next guests and expert on the topic that we'll be discussing.
Cholan is a director of the Australian Centre for Islamic finance and the CEO at Olive investments. Amir is also an adviser to a number of institutions that provide Islamic finance Omer was a consultant lecturer and board member for the master of Islamic banking and financial course at Latrobe University. He's also produced a very well known video called the wisdom behind prohibition of riba interests, a case study G, F, C. But before we bring him out, let's see what one of the most influential Muslims that people respect today who doesn't compromise or shy away from speaking the truth even on this matter, that we'll be discussing and Who's that? That's our brother, hubby guy
Muslim and I try to stay away from rebar and rebar one of the biggest sin Allah mentioned in Quran and people underestimate this rebar can kill not couple people, they kill all like cities countless. I know a lot of people like big businessmen
like when they realize what is this riba like and they have, like big contracts they offer like big banks, they want to invest and when they understand this is riba they say no. They say no, no, only 1% No, half percent No. Same thing. half percent or 50%. No is no revised Riba, salam alaikum salaam aleikum wa salam, how are you? My brother Hamdulillah? Doing very well. What about you? hamdulillahi rabbil? aalameen. Good, good, good. It's good. And I'm very elated and happy that we have you on the program to to discuss this very important topic that will tie into many of the other things. Because obviously, Islam is not just a bunch of do's and don'ts and Shakedown makes it appear that way.
Obviously, when people establish a relationship with their Creator and based on pure monotheism, towhee, now they know the purpose of life, then there are harmful things out there. So it's a blessing that our Creator is telling us these things. So we're not fumbling in the dark and you're an expert in this area that we'll be discussing. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, thank you very much for your very kind invitation. I really enjoy your program and what you're doing and being a fellow from Bosnia. I enjoyed that. enjoy that aspect as well.
Look, I've been always interested in sort of trying to figure out how things work, how things get done in society, and whether it's through building something
bingo helping somebody. So I was always interested in different kinds of things. And I get that translates in various fields. And finance is one of those areas that touches upon all all different areas of life. So I like to study I like to read, I
like to understand things. And so yeah, that's, that's, I guess how I see myself just a student of continually learning something new every day. There's this video that a lot of people have shared, it's the wisdom behind prohibition, riba interest, and you spoke on this topic, and a lot of people they recommend this video that you've made, what made you so you've you what made you go down this route that you got, specifically, there's so many branches of Islam, that you took an interest to get deeper into this, everybody's one of the things that when I was locally studying
fic, or jurisprudence, Islamic jurisprudence here at my local masjid, from my local chef, and I would study this topic, and amongst many, many other topics. And when this topic came, I was just fascinated with the rules. It was very surgical, very interesting, I couldn't wrap my head around how does something like which is such a seemingly simple thing can be such a devastating major sin and caused so much grievances not just in our religion, but in other religions, in our philosophical movements, in the history of mankind. So that just boggled my mind, and I started going through that. And the more I dig into that I just got more and more amazed. And, you know, two decades I've
been reading this subject, and this still is one of the single most amazing things that you I keep discovering new things about.
This is going to be a very exciting episode. And like I said, earlier, I said this for me and for many, this is not something that would bring people away, I would say this is more of a pro, even a pro we have tons of proof authenticity of that Islam. The signs in the Quran is preservation, the prophecies, the miracles, a problem is, there's so many evidences that Islam is deed, a way of life not created by man or mankind, but from the Creator of mankind. And it was sent down and we have it in its original the Quran and evidence is just, you know, overwhelming. And I say all of these things are more evidences, because the Prophet Mohammed wants to bring people to his religion to his
to Islam. You can look contrast that with Paul, for example, who's just saying, you know, the, you know, the circumcision is the heart the law is, you know, been abrogated and it's so much easier just to cancel out all these rules and regulations right? But why is Mohammed is going to be making it harder now. Prohibition, prohibition of alcohol, pork and all these things, then when we look deeper into it, we see they cause havoc in society, or it's harmful for us. And this is what will be hope people will see also this is another proof of the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad, what do you think? I think absolutely, this is just our lack of imagination to see how big of an evidence is
this is a major piece, it just that we cannot imagine or we don't see or we don't recognize. And in today's age of AI automated thinking, we all adopted one single view on how economics should be run how things should be and and we don't realize really what is happening so more you go into this visit them you start realizing oh my god, this is like this is such a such a major piece. Why is nobody talking about these things? So it's absolutely agree with you. We're gonna make this more interesting. There was a new Muslim by the name of I don't know if you heard of this. This brother of ours now there's, there's two of them. There's Myron. He's a Muslim, but he's not he says, Look,
you know, I don't want to he's not really a practicing Muslim, you want the best for him. We hope this can also be another sign for him. Then there's another brother named Nico. He's a new Muslim. So they touch upon this topic that you're an expert and so we'll get your reaction to it. And we'll go from there. Most of us can't buy real estate
he's being super strict because because of usury other Muslims can
still you can buy real estate but he's saying you can't take a loan on it because you pay interest with loans but that's like some of the basics of real estate it's the exactly you have to take a loan unless he's basically telling you you gotta buy houses cash because that way you don't have interest
but it's very difficult to buy houses cash and it's not intelligent.
You think like Muhammad hijab and like all the like is most intuitive gonna get mad at me if I like buy real estate? They might I wouldn't even disclose it. I don't drink Come on.
I mean, the thing is like that's just not even though I understand that.
Like everything in America is built on interest everything bill because for obvious reasons, but any Western country is going to be dependent upon interest. If you have a mortgage that's interest, bro, like, what do you would do you live in a house? You probably have a mortgage on that house, you're paying interest. So that's all right.
Um You have your bet your money in a bank account the bank is lending your money out on interest
this is yo
there's no way to avoid usury in the West there's no way What about everything is based on interest that's how that's how that's how lending in general makes money so that you if you want to borrow money credit cards interest
Yeah, we're gonna have credit cards. See that depends on how religious you want to go so but I can go down to some requirements that are on top of credit cards because I have multiple I guess maybe if you're like super religious again, they can interpret it as that because credit cards charge you interest if you don't pay in full chat respectfully like if you're gonna go criticize me for that.
So I don't claim to be a great Muslim because
how much I have to give up pork fun. Alcohol, women. Gay gambling.
knew about everything. I can't even invest my money. Yet no, not n n n n n n n n n n n n n. You can invest but you can't invest it into things that involve usury. But any real investment typically deals with interest. Unfortunately, that's just how it is. They're saying credit cards overall.
Yeah, okay. I'm gonna ask you because mine about that, but okay, no, cloud, Alex. Okay. It's better to sneak on mine. What's a good advice to leave alcohol, bro, just quit. You have to quit, bro. Like you just have to go cold turkey and you gotta quit. We just have to accept the fact that like alcohol is not in your best interest as a man and it's going to set you up for failure. Alcohol the only people that can get away with being alcoholics all day are women bro. Sorry, great way to become a Muslim. And if you start drinking alcohol you're gonna go to hell if you're a Christian you can drink all day how beneficial man alcohol is for losers anyway it is. Well it's fun sometimes.
No, no having fun though. I get it I get it. It is fun. But it bro it's it's a waste of time though. It really is a waste of time.
It's tough, man. It's it's been Wallahi it's been three months in a week. Now since I had a sip of alcohol on every good. My life on my I don't want to. I feel better. It's so much more. There's a lot to unpack here. Where do you want to start?
Well, it's not surprising, by the way, I have a son. And I've been I'm involved here in the local Islamic college with young people, for the last almost decade been working there.
Canceling young people in terms of the career development, that's one of the other things that I've been doing on the side,
in my community here, and I came across most of these people. So I'm familiar with these sneakers and rotate these kinds of individuals. And a lot of years young, including my own son, actually, my son got me. First time I heard about the end of the day, it was on your podcast, we were driving and he says do you want to listen to this interview with this guy. So we listen to all of your podcast there. So I'm familiar with this kind of. And then it's not surprising. This is how most of the people will think that.
You know, if I can't do it this way, then it's impossible to get something done. I can't be wealthy, I can't be happy. I can't enjoy my life. If you close the interest, or gambling or drinking alcohol, how can I have fun? So this is and you know, what is interesting? When you observe this again, just coming from the young people perspective when they talk about matrix right. And the programming. This is exactly it. Wow, that's it. We've been programmed. Good point. That's a solid point.
And so him saying that you can't get rich unless you take a loan. How do people make money? How do people buy property? In fact, opposite is true. How did Elon Musk become the richest person in the world, it's not true that it's actually a completely opposite way. He invented something, people invested through equity. And this is even today the fastest way that people make money. So you look at the major funds in Silicon Valley Sequoia fund and all of these other things, what they do, they invest equity, they invest on the partnership basis. And they know some businesses will fail, some will be moderate success, but then they will be among 1020 businesses, one or two businesses that
will do 10 times 100 times more. And so this is how we achieved today progress. It's it's people who risk the money. It's not true that startups are not financed through debt.
So even today, majority of the Progress majority of the wealth creation is done through equity financing. And so riba or interest come later on when you have a big business that is already established, already has equity buildings, and they can suck that wealth out of it, then they start giving it alone. So usually, this is now at the more mature stage.
And so So yeah, so that's, I guess I would lie
because how do you see when you hear those, those kinds of thoughts, as well, I like what you said, this is speaking the language of the vernacular, now of the youth coming up and this whole thing with the matrix, I would say the satanic force or whatever you want to go ahead and define it as but we understand this programming. I like what you said, this is very powerful, because they also themselves are talking about these matrix and this programming is happening. So you just hit it on the head, a light bulb should go off for them. This is just a programming your, that you can't have, you can't have fun now without alcohol, without gambling with all these things that are just, it's
built on a premise now of things, your life has been surrounded by these things. And these are just a few things that are prohibited. And now it just crumbles apart. Because one by one, if you look at what these things entail, at the end result of alcohol, alcoholism, and all the deaths and murders and everything, and I think about alcohol share, and I think about the study that they had before, and now you have even conservative and conservative Christians who are giving up Candace Owens. I don't know if you heard of her, I quit drinking cold turkey. And I did not quit drinking because I have a problem. People are tremendous hypocrites, as I mentioned earlier that there's the
conservatives that say that we should definitely ban and make sure that drugs remain illegal, but they partake in alcohol. And yeah, some other podcasters they're coming out. These are women saying we don't want to drink anymore. The studies that they used to have an alcohol that it was like one one glass of wine a day. These studies they talk about were actually done by the alcohol industry. Now there's new studies that no amount of alcohol is good for you. Subhanallah said no moderate drinking isn't good for your health. Despite a long held belief that moderate amounts of alcohol are good for you. A sweeping new analysis finds that the more you drink, the higher your risk of early
death is one of the largest studies to debunk the widely held belief that moderate drinking of wine or alcoholic beverages is good for you. Last year, researchers in Britain examined genetic and medical data of nearly 400,000 people and concluded that even low alcohol intake was associated with increased risk of disease. A new study which appears Friday in JAMA Network open also found that drinking relatively low levels of alcohol 25 grams a day for women less than one ounce and 45 grams, about one and a half ounces per day for men actually increased the risk of death. So why are we and then go ahead? What are you gonna say?
Absolutely. And that's that's why you even see, you know, I was watching again, somebody sent me the clip, Andrew Tate was talking about how, you know, he smokes the cigarettes and this is a great it keeps him alert and something else. You know, we know tobacco again. This is This is music to the ears when they hear these kinds of things. And that's why in Quran we see that the question is posed, they asked you about gambling and alcohol, these kinds of things. And you know, they might be some benefit for for this, but the overwhelming effect of these things is very negative. And on the point that they were mostly shocked was the issue of interest. But in reality if we know our
history, or we know our present, we shouldn't be shocked. I tell you one interesting thing I recently heard it was a podcast. It was not actually podcast, it was an episode recorded by Patrick bed David's PBD with two crime bosses. It was a series called United States something about a crime in the United States. I forgot the exact title. So here is
two for the first time under bosses one of them is like a Michael from Godfather type of figure Another one was semi bold Burdwan or something.
That's right. So so so PPD asks him at the end after you know entire podcast talking about his dedication to casa nostra eliminating people running all kinds of records, manipulating society, you're engaging in all kinds of things. During that time. He asked him, after you now finish the jail and everything if you are a young man.
If you were now engaging in a business, what business would you be engaged in? And his response was, I will do shy looking, shy, shy, arcing shy looking. Now what does that mean? The Shylock is a character for Shakespeare play, called The Merchant of Venice.
And Merchant of Venice talks about, you know, Shakespeare time Europe 1617 century when interest was prohibited in Europe, and so Christians also church would excommunicate people for engaging in interest. But what the Christians used to do, they will bring Jews who they will then deal interest so for Jews, it was there made it between them, it's not allowed but to the Christians they will do it. And so this created very
The bad blood between Jews and Christians of the Europe. So Shakespeare is describing this moment in time when Jews and Christians sort of have this interesting relationship where they need money, Christians, but they hiding it from church, but then they also hate Jews, which is why some of the people talk about Shakespeare being anti semitic, but he was not talking about religion specifically, but more about this guy named Shylock in in this book, who basically gives the loan to the Christian who needs to marry beautiful, wealthy girl, but he doesn't have the money. So now to marry her, he signs up to the contract where he will give a pound of flesh. Okay? And this is where
our reference in the culture come when somebody wants to kill you basically, or extract from you, makes you like an object that extract pound of flesh. So it's come from that book. And so eventually, I don't want to spoil people the book, he can't repay the money. So he they go to the judge and Shylock, who is the money lender, he's demanding pound of flesh. And so
it is very interesting that this criminal who is on top of the criminal, boss, criminal boss, out of all the businesses that they could do money laundering, tax evasion, oils, everything they've done, he picks this particular industry, that he would focus on Shark loans, money lending, and shy looking. So one has to think about why What is it with this profession that attracts these kinds of people? Why is it that you know, you have people in the past historians, they used to say, there are only two ways to conquer a country. One is through a sword. Another one is through debt. And so for anybody who wants to be awakened away from this simulation matrix, what they want, they don't want
to be NPCs, or however they call themselves, they want to be people who critically autonomously think for themselves, they need to ask themselves, why did I buy into this when everybody else with all of these experience, they actually love these things? It can't be good for both if these people are saying this will be a great way to make money to conquer the countries and so on. And I'm swallowing that. I mean,
person who is awake should ask, What am I not seeing here? Wow, this is deep. Okay, this is really deep, you're going into, wow, this is at the time, this was prohibited in Europe. It's actually prohibited in the Bible. So you had the hood, who made it, it was prohibited. But this is the changing of the text that they made it now that they can they can give to each other. But they couldn't do it to each other. But they can do it to the Christians and others. Charge them interest. Is that what you? That's right. Wow, this is That's right. So if you I was actually just the other day reading Talmud, which is like the Tafseer. And I was going through they're like what we have in
every books of Hadith, we have a book of business transaction. So they also have in the, in the Bible, of course, everybody is prohibited, which is what we call interest usury. So I was just for one presentation I have going through the book of Talmud, and just to see exactly, you know, like, what is it that they're saying, as I was reading their accounts of the rabbi's. It's 100% exactly what they are saving. In fact, the word for Reba they they use in their language is Ribbit, ribbit,
ribbit. That's what it's called. That's what it's called. Ribbit, ribbit.
Ribbit, ribbit, ribbit. Ribbit attract. They said, he beats Pinterest. It's come from the same, it's come from the same root means increase increase. So what increase we talking about increase that is not legitimate. And the way that they describe the loans versus equity loans,
who is involved, as if you are reading Islamic text, the guarantor, the witness, it's allowed in this case, the example they put and they say that this is a deadly sin.
And I put down this information, the chat GPT I said, let me ask Chad GPT based on this, how come they allow to themselves? So I had a chat with the GP 10s I see how based on these, do you figure it out? Like what you know, these references? Like where is it? So we had a discussion and said, you know, you have to reinterpret this deadly sin in the Torah in you know, like in the Bible as such in such an essay, okay, what is the evidence to say it's allowed between them because it's related to deadly sin? At the end Judge gptc Well, you know, it's just interpretation.
And so and so it's very interesting when you when I then listen to the rabbi's who are I listen some of their talks about how they explain. It's amazing. It's just like you're listening Islamic scholars talking about this issue, so the law exactly the same. Then I went to ask
Uh, you know, like, go through the Christian sort of relationship with riba. And you have a example in the Bible where Jesus peace be upon him, enters the temple and see people engaging in interest transaction in the church, in the temple, and he throws them out. And he said to them, you have made this temple the den of thieves. So he's he threw the money changing tables. And this is the time where Christian pilgrims used to visit holy land. And they would pay taxes to the church in the silver shackles, but because their money was in pagan symbols, they would exchange a silver coin for another silver coin without these, and then they would in this process, charge them a lot of a lot
of money in return. So he linked this to the injustice to something that is thief's would do. So it's just very interesting when when you look at all of these references, you know, you can go as much as you want in the history. This was always seen as most unnatural way of making money. And it goes back to what you're saying. So we've been programmed now, to do it the wrong way doesn't mean it's the right way. And we should be honored. And we're blessed truly, that we have a way of life Islam that doesn't compromise to these things doesn't compromise to the alphabet movement. It doesn't compromise now to go ahead and win people in that now you're at the houses of worship the
churches, and you got the bands, and it's like a concert and whatnot and doing anything, you know, to go ahead and bring people in No, these rules are there. They're set. There's few, but the font, there's far more things that are allowed. And the things when someone looks into the alcohol gambling destroying homes destroying site, it is about now at the small level and the big low enslaving someone. And you gave a great example Sammy the bull for people that don't know, this is the right hand hitman to the New York crime boss, John Gotti. And you're saying that in his interview with Patrick and David, that he was talking about this is what he would be into now this
is this is it right here. So people can understand this, then if you go and it's evil, like if you would go and say, I need 10,000 You're vulnerable, you're weak, you need some money. And then Sammy, the Bull gives you 10,000. And you got to usually you got it's like almost double, you got to give back, right? And if you don't give that back now, what happens, you end up breaking your legs and your arm and then you can end up in the grave. Right. But in this in this case, we saw what was happening to people, you know, they were maybe almost close to paying off. But they wanted their pound of flesh, the bankers now the mafia guys got into the suits now. And now they're the bankers.
And now what the what was happening to the society what was happening even in the collapse, you know, when when all the the homes are being foreclosed, people are going they didn't care about the people and what was happening with the family doesn't matter what it was getting thrown out in the streets. And Islam prevents this because it has true justice. What are your thoughts on that?
Yes, that's, that's one of the most deepest programming today because everybody accepts that as it is. And it's not for no reason that the mafia boss, this is the very simple way to make money, you don't really need to do anything. It's a very lazy mentality. And it affects everything that we are doing, in fact, as a result of this borrowing, because what is the interest is when you give somebody money on interest, money gives birth. So I forgive one person $100 5%, and then he gives to another person at 6%. And then and on and on and on. Money keeps giving the birth. And so if you look at current economy, for example,
let's say everything that we produce on planet Earth is let's say $50 trillion.
Now, the amount of debt amount of interest among this financial economy is maybe 20 times that.
Now, think about all of that assets, financial assets, which are just the debt, money giving birth, they need to return some profit for their investors. Where is the profit gonna come from? When the earth is just 5% Even if we give entire earth to them, is just for one year? Where is the next? So what that incentivizes creation is even more artificial products. And therefore, when you run a normal business, now you are running against people who make money in this synthetic way. And you can't make a real products to compete with synthetic product with the fake products. How do you get these type of returns? For example, in Australia, we have one of the banks, it's 25 million people
live in Australia, in the worst of times, they say inflation was post COVID. That is rising. When everybody's tightening their belt they had this year one of the four banks had $10 billion profit from 25 millions of Australians it's it's a record
that that we are seeing. And so one has to ask themselves,
the way this currently is happening around us, or even one simple scenario, how currently if we just observe on the higher level, how we bought and how deeply we bought in this, we have now measured inflation, that result of the COVID. And the breakdown of economy supply line would be called, where things are more difficult to make more expensive to make. And so this inflation is going in America and us everywhere, right. And so if you look at the average person, they are now having the home loan where they're paying 20% 25% of their salary to the bank. So what we have collectively as a world bought into is the way to manage this inflation, to make things a little bit cheaper, is to
increase interest rates. So every central bank in the world now is increasing interest rates. Now, this comes at a time when you have massive debt. As a result of us not working during the COVID. Everyone was borrowing. Governments were borrowing and printing money. So it's like you give to your son credit card, he's not working. And so he increased the debt. So then you go and you ask him, Okay, are you gonna get a job? He says, No, I'm gonna keep increasing debt. And I'm going to increase the interest rates on the debt as well. So in our wisdom, we now are saying I bought the house like in Australia, last 12 months, we had 12 increases of interest rates by central bank. So
the average teacher who is on 100k, salary 25%, goes to the bank in this one year, another 10% goes to the bank. So think of this what's happening, you have purchased the home through the bank last year, and the sale is concluded, but the bank come and say, You know what you should be maybe giving me more money. Imagine if you went to the supermarket, and you bought the milk for $2. And one year later, they say, you know, that milk you bought for $2, we would like another dollar that you give us. This is exactly what is happening with a bank. And entire system. I was watching head of one of the I think Nigeria, there was a lady. I think she was a Muslim. She was the finance minister at the
panel of IMF. And they were asking her, how do you fight inflation and current situation problems in your country? And basically, she said, we're going to refinance our debt. And then IMF said, Well, that's, that's exactly how you should do it. Everybody's bought in. So so if you are not thinking like this, the only one head of state in Turkey or President had the answer, you know, maybe we should do opposite. Everybody attacked him. He doesn't know what he's doing. He is not conventional. And the whole world started collapsing around him. So again, it's a very interesting how, from the criminals, to these other organizations, they seem to value this way of doing business and running
economy in this way. I remember back in the day, because also, you know, being and doing some real estate and whatnot. And when I first started practicing Islam, and most people just go through the motions, and they're not really they just see the bill, okay, I'm getting his loan. And when you get the payment, let's say your payment is like 3000 a month, people don't understand like, isn't that robbing you? You're paying actually, what is it the majority of going towards, for how many years just towards the interest of your payment is like 3000 a month, you're paying like, 26 $2,700 is just going towards the interest, almost the majority and then that's for like, that's for how many
years just that alone, it's like people really, they're just, you know, bought into this and they're not even thinking, you know, so we're trying to get people to not to talk about many of the exploitation of the the urban areas, you gave the great example of, you know, with a child, you know, a young man, or the urban areas where they put these places out and they're given this money away and they enslave the people. So Allah don't want you to be a slave to creation but a slave to the Creator. That's when you get true freedom. I want to show you this next clip because I want people to see because now we're seeing things from a the speck on the painting. Allah is trying to
sees the whole picture. So we have to have trust in our Creator. And something that hits home is his next video here. I'm pretty sure you've probably seen it. And this really comes brings things to light. How at a bigger scale, not just people get enslaved but whole institution countries get enslaved. Let's take a look at this and have you react to it.
This is what we were saying before. We economic hitmen really have been the ones responsible for creating this first truly global empire and we work many different ways
But perhaps the most common is that we will identify a country that has resources our corporations covet, like oil, and then arrange a huge loan to that country from the World Bank or one of its sister organizations, but the money never actually goes to the country. Instead, it goes to our big corporations to build infrastructure projects in that country, power plants, industrial parks, ports, things that benefit a few rich people in that country, in addition to our corporations, but really don't have the majority of the people at all. However, those people the whole country is left holding a huge debt. And such a big debt, they can't repay it. And that's part of the plan. They
can't repay it. And so at some point, we economic hitmen go back to them and say, Listen, you lost a lot of money, can't pay your debt. So sell your oil, real cheap, or oil companies allow us to build a military base in your country or send troops and supportive hours to someplace in the world like Iraq or vote with us on the next few and vote to have their electric utility company privatized and their water and sewage system privatized and sold to US corporations or other multinational corporations. So that was a whole mushrooming thing. And it's so typical of the way the IMF and the World Bank work this poor country in debt. It's such a big debt can't pay it. And then you offer to
refinance that debt and pay even more interest. And you demand this quid pro quo, would you call it conditionality or good governance, which means basically, that they've got to sell off their resources, including many of their social services, their utility companies, their school systems, sometimes their their their penal systems, their insurance systems, to foreign corporations. So it's, it's a double, triple, quadruple whammy.
This was a short clip from the economic hitman. Have you seen this?
I added the book actually couple of few of his books. Yeah. So does this hit home to what we're talking about? Now? If you look at it a bigger scale countries, nations are being enslaved by this rebuffed by this interest?
Absolutely, absolutely. Actually, just the last week, I put a tweet that organda Voted the specific law against LGBT. And the first thing World Bank did was that they tweeted back that as a result of this law, they will not anymore issue the finances for the country. And IMF also said they will reconsider our involvement. And so it's very interesting that I was looking at the World Bank, the mission seems to be fight poverty, you know, but they are here, using that money mechanism
to to push certain agenda. And we are talking about a countries that for decades have been receiving these loans. They have let's look look at the African countries.
They have some of the largest natural resources in the world, potential for the enormous wealth. And all of this money, you would think by now the dead infrastructure, they experts would be making everybody's life rich. And isn't it interesting that this guy who used to be what they call economic hitman, where he described exactly how they were robbing the countries, is using this example of debt as a weapon to make countries weaker and make themselves richer. So how is it that these guys look at this as a weapon that they use to destroy countries and make them weaker. And yet, we somehow think that this is the tool to make us Richard like just just doesn't make sense. Now, this
is not to say that I don't want people to get the wrong idea. We as Muslims, we want to own homes and businesses. And there are ways where you can finance
through organization, financial institutions, Islamic way if you don't have finances, to buy home, and so on. But what we are talking about is more like a system of incentives that allow for massive exploitation, something that focused our energy in the wrong direction. So we are talking about here incentivizing certain behavior, that open door for exploitation. And this is what happens on smaller level and also on the on the larger level. We'll get into some solutions that you just mentioned, let's get into another clip of the part of the conversation between our brothers, Myron and snicko. That's how you avoid paying taxes my way that's all legal. Yes, I can like avoid taxes. Yes. And
this is now going back through all saying so let's say you buy a house $100,000 Cash, right. Yeah, you get that tax benefit on that one house on $100,000 cash. Yeah, but what would make more sense if you took that $100,000 cash that you have and bought four houses and put 25k down on each and now you're able to write off 400 Though
As long as worth of taxes, but you only spent 100k. That is why buying houses cash is stupid. It's better buy the house the Haram way. Unfortunately, yes with banks.
Okay, because you're able to, you're able to leverage the banks to get better tax breaks, okay? Because you're buying for houses for 400k worth 400k versus buying one house for 100k.
And you're getting and you're getting cash flow from those four houses. Now, people might say, Well, if you buy the house cash, you don't have a mortgage, you get more cash flow, because you don't have to pay the mortgage. That's true. But when it comes to tax benefits, and the appreciation that you're going to enjoy from those four houses, you actually make more money by saving more money by buying the four houses.
sneakily like, it's logical. It seems like it's making sense. And some of these things might make some sense. But Dean comes in, people say religion is holding me back. Now, how am I going to, you know, how would you respond to what the argument that our brother Myron is making?
Look, this is interesting point. One, one thing to note here is that this issue of interest is being embedded in the system. And you do get tax exemption, tax breaks and some benefits.
This is, this actually, is a whole different conversation, this idea of preferring debt or equity started long time ago, actually, after the Second World War, when much of the world was destroyed. And a lot of countries they didn't want, you know, one of one few countries that was still with the money and resources to buy everything in every country. And so,
you know, America could have went to Europe or any other country and bought by everything, so, so they made equity bit more harder, versus debt, when you are investing. And so these kinds of laws, taxation reflects this reality. And, and so our code does allow you dealt with these kinds of,
I think, this way of thinking, it's a very interesting way of thinking first, and not just the way that they think. And this is what riba mentality does to the people, everybody these days is talking about some way of making passive income, making money by doing nothing. So what you will notice in all of these financial advices, they read a book poor dad, Rich Dad, by Robert, you know, or somebody else, this is a cut and paste from these kinds of books. But most of these advices revolve about you doing nothing productive.
Okay, you're not providing any benefit. You're not doing anything. You're not building the houses, you don't think you have to be engineer, how to create new technology, how to create new medicine, how to improve somebody's like, No, you just thinking how can I make more money without doing anything? Now if you can do that, Holloway, that sort of problem. But yeah, that that sort of mentality where we are squeezing maximum profit, and we are not thinking about our starting point is not? How do I solve some problem? How do I benefit somebody? And so this is what brings us in all kinds of problems. Now, these things, let's say, if we're not talking, if we're just talking about
from economic side, can this what he's describing you buy for houses, you're making repayments can that work, it could work for somebody, some situation, and this how a lot of people make money. But it's very important, I know people for whom this didn't work. Because once you lose the tenant in one house, and you can't repay what happens to that cash flow, you don't have a cash flow, you're already stretched. If you want to replace it, you need to wait. So there is a lot of things that can go wrong when people start stretching themselves. So more often than not this also result in wealth destruction. I know a lot of people, a lot of businesses, they stretch themselves, they holding all
of these four or five different things. But somebody needs to pay these things. If something doesn't go there is also dominance. So it's very risky. Now again, going back to the you know, how, how
to create wealth, the best way to create wealth is by producing something of value satisfying somebody's mind that makes sense. And this could be part of mix if you have Halal finance, where you buy a house for investment, but it's very important to notice that sort of attitude how we make money, that risk appetite that aggressiveness that can often result in harm so it's not a clear cut issue. It's not as simple as as they make it to be. So a lot of young people, they might listen to this and they say oh did this so easy, just make that make a lot of these purchases. And this would sometimes create a lot of problem down the lane these kinds of risky loans and in Australia for
example, we have a law against these kinds of behavior where if you cannot afford to buy
I homes you cannot make repayment you don't have a cash flow to support your repayments, you cannot take loans, even in conventional. So it's important to be sort of balanced and responsible. And also make sure that what you do is not going into the haram for the sake of just making more money in the risky way. There was a statement that our brother, my roommate, he said, That's why buying houses cash is stupid. And then snickle replace it the Haram way. To me, I was thinking, you know, and then somewhere in that conversation, they mentioned, snicko ask them, Is this legal? And it's interesting, people will look at what's legal in the material world that we live live in, but then
they take as a joke, what's illegal with Allah, you know, the creator of creation? They take this very, very softly, you know, they don't really take their severe consequences of Riba. Why is Allah actually saying you're waging a war? Can you talk about that this is a war, well, this, this, this also what is legal is a result of human experience, human when we regulate things in our society, we try to prevent disasters, you will remember the global financial crisis, exactly it was caused, because the loans were given to people who couldn't afford them. And so, so this worked for a time being, but when these people
couldn't repay those loans, the domino effect started affecting everybody. So you are creating like a financial cancer by doing things that that that starts then risking entire organ to be affected and poisoned by doing these kinds of things. So so, you know, even even a matter of home, it's another big discussion, but, you know, I advise people you know, especially for your own homes, you know, pay off your home, that's a very important piece. It's a lifestyle decisions. And, and then you know, you you extend yourself how much so that it doesn't cause you just to be constantly worried, because also this type of lifestyle, create almost gambling, gamblers lifestyle, they're
always on edge, they're always looking to market what's happening, because at any moment, these dominoes around them, they stretch them so they can start falling. So you see them dead, they don't have time for anything, they're not sleeping, they're just constantly alert, they're constantly annoyed. And so so it's not really it's almost like a gamble you're gambling with so many pieces it's a not a lifestyle for a Muslim, that's the that's really deep constantly worrying always on the edge. It's like a house of cards, that only times things can collapse and then boom all of this you know that you've set up it's you're living on the edge just keep stretching, stretching things out.
And I reminds me of the statement authentic a different lesson fundamentally said to mankind Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him. He said, Live debt free live a free man, you know. So it's a big difference. When you're debt free, rather than on the edge you got all of this money that you owe.
Scholars used to say about that, that it's a humiliation in the day and voting in the night. And this is for Halloween that say it again, a humiliation during that they used to say that that hull that knot with rebar is humiliation during the day and the worry in the night.
And the process I'm talked about that as a prison, something that imprisons you Wow. So for sure this affects your mindset. In fact, if you now look at the majority of divorces problem in issues, Allah talking about interest is a waging war. If you think about majority of the problem is the result of financial difficulties, financial problems. And so personally, psychologically number of people who are affected
just yesterday, yes, the money problems are everywhere around us, you know, and it's all fine and cozy when things are going great. But you know, when things start collapsing, everybody started getting affected in fact, just for your information yesterday I I've been talking in the Bosnian page, about one pyramid scheme that recently collapsed and I've been talking about it in Bosnia in for a couple of months and and people were contacting me now who were investing and the lady was just this morning saying that I got my close friends and people to invest with me now I lost money now I'm my mental health is going I'm anxious. I have anxiety, I can't show my face to the people.
So when these financial troubles hit, then you see the reality and that's why people are on the edge because they build around themselves all of these structures that that keeps them on the edge they there is no Sakina there is no peace there is no tranquility, they can't focus on anything. And the best way to imprison somebody like that is exact
through that state of mind, people are not thinking this is very this is a episode that you guys got to share, get out there because so many people, their marriage are being destroyed, you mentioned, their lives are upside down, they're not connecting it to the war being waged with their Creator. And now they can't have peace within themselves peace within their home. There's no Bucha though Sakina what you said that tranquility and stress kills, stress literally kills so many people, they're on the edge of stressed out, and they all that money they're making, they cannot buy, as I say, you can't buy a six pack of peace, peace comes into liquidity, contentment from obeying your
Creator, not disobeying your Creator. What were you gonna say?
You know, I know, I know, people who are, every time you go out of the balance of something that is normal, you stretch, you push yourself, whether it's you work too much time, you know, or you you take on debt that you can't handle. And so what starts happening is, you know, your child, your son come to you, you don't see your son, you see numbers that's in your mind, you can't relax, you can't do anything. And so and so this is very, very poor, very, very big problem today. There's a hadith I'm paraphrasing talking about, at the end of the day, a person will go through all these troubles and they'll jump through all these haram loops and everything and whatnot, just to get the risk.
What's written for them? Just it's already written how much you're going to go ahead and amass Is this correct share. And then that's the Haram way or the halal way. And at the end, you lose this life, you die. And now you're standing in front of your maker, your Creator, and you only got what's written for you but at the end, the other person sacrificed and did it the hell out of the permissive permissible. Well, you got paradise this party ends in this life, but you guys, you see the Face of your Lord and forever ever, you don't have to go ahead and worry about nd because you're in bliss now in Jana, why are you going to sacrifice this temporary life that can end at any time?
And you lose? What's eternal forever? And Jana? Just doesn't make any sense. What were you saying?
Yes, absolutely, in in reality, this comes down to the definition of what is wealth because all of these clips are talking about wealth generation and things like that. So the wealth, wealth that you you know, today capitalism perfected this aspect of extracting our all time for for that money. And this is something miracle of capitalism that you spend all of your time all of your thinking and free time and mind power for acquiring that wealth. And even if you cannot spend it, I know people who are extremely wealthy they spend whole day looking at the screens in their shop, they don't want to see anybody and often what what starts happening with them, I I say this often to my students is
when they get to this stage where only thing that they are thinking number and focusing just on that I was recently visiting a doctor who retired recently with my wife and and they my wife told me that you know, for the when she was speaking to his his wife, she said, you know, although they have millions in saving and you know, Porsche and several houses in the cars, they say in the morning, they skip a breakfast and only for the lunch they have a little bit of bread with the butter. And I say how's that possible? Is it diet? Is it what you know? No, they are afraid of the poverty. See how can they be afraid they have all of these millions. But then I remember that you know, if you
live live just focusing on debt. That's all you see around yourself. If you are just like you know when you buy a new car,
and you know when my daughter bought a Honda Civic, I never seen Honda Civic in my life before industry. When she bought it, I see it everywhere you know. And so if you live your life just concerned about yourself, then you think everybody's like you and so you are very tight because you think if I get in trouble tomorrow, there is nobody going to help me so I need to be there for myself and so you are afraid even if you have everything. On the other hand if you live a more balanced life and you help out people you live in the community. And then you think you know even if something happens to me that is maybe not good and I lose my money. But you are doing good in the
community, you know, and you see other good people. So you start automatically being relaxed because you think there are other people who will help me out so even though you're living exactly the same, you have completely different outlook because the way you are engaging you are charitable you spending money. And and this is the essence essence here is in your heart. What you feel is enough fulfilled because our grandfather in paradise he had everything, but he still had that anxiety. Now you can't have debt. Here in this world. You will not have 90
90% of this planet wealth in your pocket, but our great father, he had everything, but shaytan comes to him and say, Do you want to be like angels self sufficient, you know, he wants to sell him this insurance policy, this, this, this banking product, you want this credit card, if you have this, if you have this loan, if you have whatever is the is the word he, he's selling him, he says you will be eternally these angels. And so this is a human weakness. So, so our, our purpose really is to recognize don't attach your happiness, your success, your wealth, to these kinds of material things. Do what you can to create material wealth, but don't sacrifice all of your time, you know, but live
a balanced life, try to have time to enjoy this, what you are getting all not to be a slave to the system that is designed around you the matrix that you've been programmed with, like you started in the beginning program, you need to think like this, if you're talking about this programming, conditioned yourself to program yourself the right way, the way your creator wants you program so you can go ahead and get to the real paradise Jana, last clip here and we'll wrap it up Morocco from these guys. They showed us around and they were saying that Islamic banks will make up for it by doing extremely large fees. So it's like, okay, they don't make the money on the interest. But those
are they're gonna charge you a bunch of money to lend you the money. Yes, yes. Which is the same. Just a different.
There's just a they they make back the money on fees, you know, okay, that Okay, so what that what it probably is that, okay, so they give you a fixed fee? Yes. Upfront versus charging you interest? Okay. I guess that's one way around it. But you're probably if you do the math, you'll probably end up paying them more maybe. I mean, you know, I was like, Who knows how much time and another 20 from Antoine salaam brothers, I'm a 20 years I think, are they going to give you a real estate loan?
It might give you an idea alone? What are they going to do? Are they going to really give you 700,000 hours to go buy a home? Definitely not. This is the other thing, you have this Islamic banking. And many of the scholars when they look at this, a lot of them don't qualify as Sharia compliant. What are your thoughts on what they're talking about? This part that Islamic Islamic banking supported.
So this is not a new case. So in Quran, when there is discussion, Allah is saying that people will be on the Day of Judgment, awakened, they will be brought, like intoxicating, like being beaten into insanity. And the reason why they will be on the Day of Judgment like this is because they say, trade this like interest. So, so it's very interesting that this
argument proceed persists. This is this is like that. And this is one of the words that always interests me, like, how is this simple idea? Why is it that people always say that this is same like this? Why is it if I give you $10 And get $11 from you? Why is that interest? Why is that not allowed? But if I'm so if I sell you this for $10, or $11, and I pay 10? And I make same amount of money on this? Why is that permissible? And so the idea here is that we start now, developing the core principle, and everything started with the principle, core principle or differentiation between what is the function of money in the economy? What is the difference?
For the asset, what is the purpose of everything, and so you start building like a DNA cell of the economy, it start from very simple, simple things. But then on top of that, how you build these things, is where the whole differences. So for example, if you look, as our scholars used to say Imam Ghazali used to say that money is the judge of other things, it's there to basically a students of economy today, I would say is to, to be something that price the goods, that is a medium of exchange, help us buy and sell and so on. So it's a judge of other commodities. It's, it's a very old definition, but it's very precise. So it's a judge other commodity. And it's he said that you
can then buy and sell judge, right? You can, it has to be objective, it has to be outside of that economy to perform his job. And so what we have effectively done in this economy is we have made money as any other commodity that is bought and sold. And so this by itself undermines the purpose for which we have money. So that's why in Islam, money you cannot buy in itself. It's not commodity, it's there to facilitate the real economy. So rather than money growing exponentially, and giving birth and so on, we must always engage in real economic activity. So to go back to what they were saying about how Islamic banks will do these kinds of things is that in order for them to extend
financing they need to buy
At home, so they will, Islamic bank will have to buy property and then either sell you or lease you or enter into some kind of a partnership with you.
If and the difference here is that we're conventional bank gives you money to get more money, Islamic bank would have to engage in some kind of a trade where the link between money and money is cut. So, in a sense, what we are saying money must become some sort of an asset.
And then that is sold or leased for a profit. And so from that basic principle, which sounds may be a trivial, we build entire entire system. And, you know, in many other aspects of life, you could think of very basic principle, and then then you can extrapolate to entire system of economy, how we run things, you know, and so on. But the logic of it is basically to say to us, all of these rules in Islam are there to say, don't focus your energy on doing something that is artificial, it's synthetic, doesn't benefit people focus your energy on activities that are directly impacting lives and benefiting people. And so this is a difference between synthetic transactions, transactions that
are designed just to maximize the profit, there is no ethics. And this is why capitalism creates this huge wealth inequality. You know, there is no way this wealth will trickle down, you know, that the capitalism lost entire value system, and it will end up with the same effect that socialism and communism will end up with, which is the concentration of wealth in very few hands, controlling that and squeezing everybody with no value. And so, so only when you have certain values attached, and right way to go about creating wealth, you know, accumulating wealth, protecting wealth, distributing the wealth in the right way. And this is where if you look at holistically Islamic
economic system, it tackles all of these areas, put the system and that's where you see the balance, that's when you see the miracle of it, once you once you take a step back and say, Now I understand why these bits and pieces, just like in society, you say, the small cell of family is then basis of community, then community functions like this, and then you have you know, that society. So in a similar way, you know, it's what you build, if you spoil the beginning step, and you say, Oh, well, you know, the marriage is nothing, you know, it's men can do whatever he wants, and don't worry about, then the total corrupt one stage of the marriage, and then the next of the community and, and
who is who in that hierarchy. So, so this is how we need to think about it, it's again, it's a longer piece to now paint economic entire system, but that's what we just discussed is the basis and the first building block in the entire
framework of how we see economy versus conventional way. This is obviously a little bit of deeper topic. And of course, you know, somebody who's new to Islam, we don't start you know, just overloading them, it's step by step we understand these things and, you know, developing that human being, helping a human being to one have a connection with their Creator in their pure monotheism, you know, preparing themselves, you know, getting not seeking knowledge and growing and in their love for their Creator, knowing who their creator is, and then they're going to have a complete balance in life, then they're going to put their Creator first because they know their Creator, they
love their career, they fear displeasing their Creator, and then their decisions, you know, the way they run through life is not going to be just based on their desires, and the matrix programming like you had talked about. So, any last closing advice for Myron? We have love for these brothers. My right and I don't think he's a practicing Muslim. What advice do you have for him? He openly says it and then snicko Also, he's just a new Muslim about three and a half months. He's happy like, he's happy. He says, like, you know, he can't have fun. He doesn't drink alcohol for three and a half months. I can't invest now. Right, which he obviously can to Holloway. But what advice do you have
for these brothers?
Well, a couple of things. Number one, let me start off by first saying that, you know, there are ways to find that you have Islamic banks that offer financial products or you have financial institutions in most of the countries in the world that people are buying the homes and and you know, they can help you with the investment opportunities. A lot of investment funds here in Australia, we have several finance companies that help people buy for last 30 years, homes that invest money, that screens where to invest money and so on. So there isn't anything that is good, that is permissible that you cannot find some alternative. So Islam is not about excluding you from
participating in a con
But you have to do it in an ethical and right way. So when you investing, for example, money in certain stocks, you need to see, you know, is this stock something that aligns with my values? Like, for example, if I asked a Sneaker do you would you invest in Disney, he would say no way. Now what the programming they are pushing out or so it's a similar way, you need to have a filter for do my values around with align with what I'm investing money in. Right? I'm not just gonna invest in business because they had a good quarter, you know, but I might invest, for example, in whatever they're now investing rumble or Twitter or whatever, you know, like, because they aligned these
kinds of ideas. So that's, that's number one. Number two issue here is what I would say to them is that what we notice from them is that they are speaking their mind very bravely, very openly, they are not afraid to even get this, get something wrong. And I think this is this is a great and very, very refreshing. So even if they get something wrong, even if they say something, I think Muslims should not jump immediately, there should be a discussion, understanding. We are talking here about individuals who are thinking people who want to have evidence and the reason Islam invites
skepticism and curiosity and challenge and let's focus on that aspect. You know, now when somebody say, but they are wrong about this, you know, one day the Prophet sallallahu sallam was having a dream and he came to Abu Bakr.
And he said, You know, I had this dream, and Abu Bakr said, Can I can I interpret? He says, Okay, give it a go. So he said, this is this, this, this and this. So the process and I'm told him, You got some and you miss some, okay? Now, if aboobaker But the Elana
was not 100% in his opinions, and he would miss some and get some how, which one of us will have 100% of everything, we every human will now miss something and get something. So I encourage this very positive discussion, I don't see it as a weakness or something that should people should jump, it's a great they are having great conversation. And I would, I would encourage them, you know, this, this issue of financial, financial, economic economy and economy in general is such a major issue. It's such a major issue is for somebody who wants to be at that level of thinking where I think they want to be at the top, top, top G writers show that they need to understand what's going
on, they need to be much more deeply understanding these mechanics, they need to examine why they think what do you think, where do these principles come from, that they learned and so on. So, so I would definitely encourage the discussions. It's a front fun to see it. And I wish them all the best and I hope Muslims are very supportive and very encouraging. And I think your your, your way of engaging in these discussions is very positive. So that
that's, that's, I think, great to see. Thank you very much again, for being with us here and helping to go deeper into this topic. Hopefully, inshallah God willing people can see things from a different perspective, and help. This helps get them out of the programming out of the matrix.
And just look a lot, Salam.
Alaikum, salam, I'm sure all of you know Eddie from the D show, and I'm sure that you've all heard about the deen center. Now you don't want to miss out on this opportunity. The brother has been around for a long time. When I became Muslim. That was a show that I used to watch. It was one of the shows that I actually was interviewed on. And since then, I've kept in touch with Eddie and we've cooperated and participate in many things together. hamdulillah by the blessing of Allah, now you guys have to do your part. This is for the ummah. There's so many people in this world who need the message of Islam, but the question is not what you're going to do. What are you going to do with
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