What we can learn from Kanye West & Kim Kardashian Divorce
The Deen Show – Kanye West Prays against TIKTOK
AI: Summary ©
The speakers emphasize the importance of avoiding custody and finding a partner who is a good person for their children. They stress the need for privacy and finding a partner who is a good person for their children. The negative impact of marriage and the uncertainty surrounding the pandemic on society is also discussed. The conversation is not focused on sex and workplace policies, but rather on the potential impact of the coronavirus on the economy and the uncertainty surrounding the pandemic on society.AI: Transcript ©
God, just it's this is out of my hands. It's up to you. This whole conversation of custody, this whole narrative gaslighting at this point it's going too far God,
please, there was a psychiatrist involved, who was essentially brainwashing the child. Hey everybody, I just got off the phone with Kim. I told her to stop antagonizing me with this tick tock thing. I said it's never again. I am her father too. I mean, that's what Instagram is doing. Right? That's what most of social media is doing is selling you this lifestyle, which is just not true. Making their career on Instagram. You know, putting his wife out there with the fish lips. He's like, sound like another 341 days. That's how we used to talk because that was how long it was since he's he didn't see his kid. I'm speechless. I mean, this wow Subhan Allah
Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salam aleikum Green's a peace How're you guys doing? Welcome to the deen show me your host and my next guest attorney navaid Hussain. He specializes in many areas of law but his primary area of practice is family law. He has handled a wide range of complex divorce litigations, including multi million dollar marital estates, contentious custody battles, and issues related to international law and child abduction. He routinely routinely assist clients in child support child custody, father's rights and other related issues. He often uses his background in business estate planning and asset protection to approach divorce litigation from an unique and
creative perspective. And that's my guest here with me how you doing brother Salt Lake go, I was doing well. I'm glad. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for accepting the invitation to be with us here. Of course, of course, of course. Now, I want to get into this video because I think what better way than to take a living example of unfortunately, the people I'm going to show you now or the person will show you now May God Almighty Allah guide us all. And we have a love for all of humanity. But you have two individuals now who they're in the public eye, they put their life out there for the world. So people can you know, have a look into their lives. And now at one time, it
was good. Now it's bad, and they're actually going through what we're going to be talking about. So I'm gonna go ahead and show you this clip. And we'll jump in to the topic. How's that? Let's do it. Hey, everybody, I just got off the phone when Kim I told her to stop antagonizing me with this tic tock thing. I said it's never again. I am her father. I know you don't respect fathers and the idea of family and media tries to promote something. I said I'm not allowing my daughter
to be used by tick tock to be used by Disney.
I have a say so and then when people say oh, they're going to use this for you in a court I don't even I didn't have a say so on whether nothing with the Sierra Canyon. Most men do not there's no such thing as 5050 custody with with in society today. That's how that's how even it always leans towards the mom.
But right now, and I'm happy that you guys got to see just a small piece of what I dealt with. Alright, so kinda we got your Muslim attorney here, hopefully give us some good advice. So we had a few issues here and inshallah God willing, we can derive some absolutely. The one thing he started talking about was tick tock. So now I guess they're getting a divorce. And the father doesn't want his daughter, I guess being exposed to Tik Tok being put out there for tic tock and the other issue or he gets in there. He talks. We'll get into the I guess let's get into the first one. Yeah, the TIC tock issue. I mean, that's the thing, right is when you have a court deciding what's in the best
interest of the child, it's such a vague term. And it's very hard for anyone to even define what it is. So it could be that one husband in this scenario, believes that this video or this act, or whatever she's doing online is not appropriate. It's not in the best interest of the child, but the wife can disagree. And because of that disagreement, now you're leaving somebody who doesn't understand your values or your culture, deciding that for you, right. And so, at this point, he might not even have much recourse in the court system to stop the daughter from being on Tik Tok, especially if it's nothing illegal about it, or, you know, you can't really necessarily object to
morality, unfortunately, in the court system, because we've kind of
divided the two. There's no more morality in the court system, you know, so it's not I don't even think it'd be an argument for him to really bring that up. Wow, that's pretty deep. I mean, so now, okay, once the family is united, yeah, that's one of the benefits now the two can come in. They can go ahead and you know, work together to raise the child right. But at once now, things split up
And sometimes one is more concerned about getting maybe revenge some type of you know you what kind of things you deal with now and then it's like they blinded to actually what's in the benefit of the children 100%. And it what's different about our community, the Muslim community in general is that for some reason, as soon as a fight happens, we run to the divorce attorney, rather than trying to work it out, rather than filing the Quran and the Sunnah, in terms of how we're supposed to deal with it, you know, stay apart, appoint a representative from each side, talk and negotiate, get something done, but no, right away, our community jumps to the lawyers, and all of that emotion is
being carried forward in that litigation. And so you see people going crazy at the beginning, where they spend so much money to try to stop the other side from seeing the child. And the other thing I would say is that you're correct. As soon as we give up control from our family, or from our community, and we leave it up to the court system. Forget about it. Right? There's your just one out of 100 cases in family law right now. And they don't care about the morality, they don't necessarily care about anything except getting the case done. It's interesting now, I mean, obviously, it's unfortunate again, I mean, may God Almighty Allah guide them, you know, to the truth and to live a
morally upright life. And you see, now they have all the money, the Kim Kardashians, the Kanye West. Yeah. But you can't get rid of the pain now that the person is going through the drama. Yeah, the trauma, it's like, especially on the children. And that's the thing for us, our kids are our biggest assets. Right? And for us to be able to pass on what we have to the next generation is huge. But if we are now creating drama and trauma, where now These children have no connection with their parents, they've been interviewed by 10 different people from the court system. How do you think they're going to be when they grow up? Do you think they're going to be successful? Do you think
they're going to stay on the dean? Of course not. We have to have foresight in you know, really, I don't think we're going to stop divorce. But we have to do it, according to the center. Towards the end, he was saying something about in his experience. Now he's seeing that the court is more in favor towards his wife. Now is this kind of, and we've heard, we hear this a lot. Now we're going to family attorney and like how was it set up and some men say like, it's set up for a man to fail. So there is a bias I believe in when it comes to custody to favor the women, right. And the system that we're using is a system there's no presumption of 5050 in Illinois, especially, meaning you don't
start the case with Okay, now we're going to start 5051 Party has to prove why you should get less or more. No, you start with zero. And usually what the status quo is, is that the mom or the wife or whoever who's staying home with the children, or who quote unquote, spends more time with the children will end up keeping the status quo and having more time. So it becomes an uphill battle for the, you know, spouse or the husband in this scenario. So I think there is an inequity, and I don't know what the solution is Islam has a solution. But yeah, I don't think the court system is doing any favors to our children. So what would you tell him now? Like, what would you he's trying to get
his daughter to go to, to religious service? You know, he's trying to like, and it's kind of it's kind of ironic, isn't it?
Now, and let's go let's go back. I mean, you're also obviously a family attorney, but you someone who looked tries I mean, obviously like us any Muslim lived by the Crown in the sun now of course, yeah. So how important is it that you really got to be on marrying? You know, let me frame this right. Yeah. You know, if somebody is so people can for a lot of Not Yet Muslims out there.
They can understand with some simple examples. Let's start off with if you're a conservative Republican, you probably want to watch if you're going to marry sale said some liberal democrat, you know, sure. What other example let's say you're a very, extremely vegan, sir. And now you're going to marry a meat eater, right? God got meat Aldo in the fridge, and what else can I give you? Let's say you're somebody who is really recovering alcoholic gambler. You don't want to go to the nightclubs anymore, but you're trying to you're probably going to marry someone who's loves drinking and partying, it's probably not going to work. So how about when it comes to now Dean, you know,
when you when you marrying someone really who is on the same wavelength as you, who's someone who loves you, their Creator, someone who loves to live a morally upright life because we hear horror stories with someone who's just, you know, infatuated with the looks of a person, then they get married, and then the kids get involved. And then it's like, all the all the love and all that other stuff wears off and they come to see you. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing, right, is that we look at divorce as a problem, but I think it's really a symptom, right? I think the problem really is how we're choosing to get married these days. The way we're choosing to get married,
unfortunately, is based off of pictures off of profiles. We don't know these this person's back
Round the family they came from. We don't know any of that information. But we'll go ahead and invest our whole entire life into this person and continue on. So again, we have so much benefit in our tradition on how to make these relationships strong. Because it's not like you said, it's not about the love, necessarily. Yes, love comes. But it's more about the values the practical union of these two individuals, can you raise a family? Can you make sure that your kids follow the Dean generation after generation? So we have to start from back here at the marriage in order to avoid things like this? You know, do you find yourself almost kind of like even being a marriage
therapist? Sometimes? Yes, yes, I do. You know, and sometimes, I like that, because that's more of a holistic approach. You're not just you know, someone coming in. And now like, you know, I want to divorce and then they're just looking how much money they can suck you dry from SubhanAllah. And that's the problem, right, is that you see so many lawyers who they all they smell is money. And it's not about fixing the marriage, it's not about doing it the right way. Or getting to the end solution. It's about know how much money can I get out of this case. And so when you come to my office, the problem is, is that you've kind of decided you wanted a divorce, right? And so of
course, you're going to have the questions about counseling and things like that. But I think more so where I want to be different is explaining the divorce process and what's likely going to happen. Look, at the end of the day, you're going to have to live with this person for the next 18 years. You have to raise this kid, you don't want to keep them on the dean. Look overnights might be okay, let's not deprive dad of time, let's make sure dads in their life, let's make sure that moms in the life like I think that's what more lawyers need to do for their divorce clients, rather than feeling the rage needed to calm them down and show them the future. You'll see these are the people with the
most followers. These are the people that all eyes are on. But now when you see their lives just crumbling in front of you, but the Dean Islam has all the solutions right now. And then look at this nightmare of a situation I want you to imagine this now. Upon their father's requests shouldn't be allowed to come to Sunday service. At this point, it's going too far, God.
Please, the boyfriend, text me antagonizing me bragging about being in bed with my wife. I thought I thought it publicly for a year and a half has been I've been dragged and how she not my wife, she don't have the last name. And now he texted me talking to bragging about how he's in bed with my wife. And I'm like, well, who's watching my children? If he's texting me bragging about being in bed with my wife. And and I thought this wasn't my wife no more legally since I got the you know, I got the lawyer to finally finish the divorce because every time I finished the show the free Hoover's show, the next day she dropped in last night, every time I do some positive and some negative.
That's cool. You tell me what are you doing the situation now? I mean, if someone's Do you have you been through of the Muslim community? So 100%? Come on 100% kidding me? I've seen him. I've seen him worse than this. This is I mean, this is I mean, it's weird to listen to this guy, like talk about his life online, like come in newer to this, like, just heard all these years? Absolutely, totally. It said nothing shocking anymore. Nothing at all. I mean, subhanAllah I? Look, every community has problems, Muslims have problems, too. The thing is that, you know, if this guy had the solutions, or if we had the solutions, we would have a better result. I mean, what do you tell this guy, I mean,
subhanAllah, you know, become Muslim, number one. But number two is, a lot of this is going to be something you just got to deal with, right? Because the system is not there. To help you, community society, no one's there to help you, you almost have to kind of internalize it, and get the therapy to get through this things. And again, if we rely on the system to solve our problems, or the court system to solve our problems, we're going to be lost and destroyed. We need to have our own dispute resolution centers and you know, institutions built so that we can apply our own tradition in our own values in our cases. So for him, I mean, I think the only thing is to
see if you could get rid of that animosity in your heart and think about the children and pray that the other person loses that animosity in their heart but I don't know. Let's say you're a Muslim one of submitted to the will of God, you're trying to, you know, be a good human being you're trying to live by the Quran sunnah. Okay, well let me back that up. I mean, you weren't in the beginning right? You made some mistakes but now you are but then you maybe you married someone like earlier I made the frame that you married someone that is of a different religion faith or no faith whatever the case Yeah, and now you're turning back around. And now you find yourself in a really sticky
situation right now you're seeing like she don't want to change towards a better she still has friends who want to go to the nightclubs. You don't want a wife like this with drinking, partying, right being
you know, out there like just for the world. You you you want to care for her nourish her.
You love you love her but she's more concerned with for or the opposite way around. Maybe it's the man of course. Maybe it's the man, maybe he's a scumbag right now, either way, so. So now what happens here like in a situation? What can you do in this situation where now you're trying to get them to go to the masjid? You follow me? Yeah. And they're holding them back. Yeah. Is it go back to what you said earlier, you're out of luck that you're there's nothing like he wants to get them to Sunday service. You want to get your child to the masjid? Yeah, but now they're in spite of you. They're trying to, you know, not cooperate. And so I mean, there's arguments you can make in court,
right? There's, there's things that you can show in court as to why this is perhaps the habit of the child, perhaps this is what's best for the child. This is what is providing them connections in the community, they get certain resources and a leg up in society by being part of these organizations, religious organizations. So I mean, there is something, you know, if you're asking from a legal perspective, there's something you can do. Yes. I mean, there's arguments to be made. Right.
But at the same time, from a practical level, right, and I'm going to kind of answer it in two ways is one before the divorce, right? I don't want to say that divorce is 100%. Bad all the time. Right, it might be warranted in certain situations, but as long as if it is warranted to do it in the proper manner, so it's not impacting your children. But secondarily,
you know, this is kind of more of a religious point, I guess, is that we can change people's hearts, you know, yes, maybe we made a mistake, maybe we didn't look at the values. But now it's done, right. And maybe God puts you through this test, to teach you something else to bring you somewhere forward or to show you the light in some other way.
But what I would say is, you know, find your purpose, because your purpose is not marriage, your purpose is not having children. Your purpose is something beyond that. And I think if we can kind of rip ourselves up and kind of zoom out instead of diving into the drama and posting it all this online. I think that's where you find that tranquility. You also talk about where you're seeing that marriage is almost becoming a thing of the past. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, yeah. So I was just thinking the other day, like, you know, I'm a divorce attorney, I didn't plan to be one. But when I'm in the business of marriage, I want to make sure marriages are strong from a dean
perspective as a brother perspective, but I really see like the marriage rates are declining. But for us as Muslims is such a strong institution, but the waves of the external society is really weathering away on our concept of marriage, because we are adopting a non Islamic version of marriage, a romantic marriage, a marriage where it's all about flowers, and you know, daffodils, right? But that's not what Islam is about. Islam says that half of your deen is how you treat your family. And so if you want to see if you're a good person or not, see how you treat your family, see how your wife thinks of you see how your husband thinks of you. And so But now, when we have an
individualistic society that doesn't care about that type of thing, marriage is not going to work in that. We also have so many problems with this within our community, about shifting away from community and shifting towards, let's say online are shifting towards other things, which is leaving a gap in how we find our spouses. Unfortunately, we have to go on Tinder and Minda and these other places to find our spouses, but you don't have the value. So unfortunately, I mean, the the data shows it,
it's on the decline. And I hope we as Muslims wake up to it and, you know, kind of inculcate this into our children, but you get married to raise children to carry on this beautiful knowledge and tradition that we have.
What is it when you when you usually see people? So it's one or the other? There? Are they do couples both come in? Sometimes they both come in to see you or is it that? Is that where they have to? One has to choose you and one has to have their own attorney? Yeah, yeah. Can you ever do it? Where? Where it's because in the dean, it should be you come like Allah want to talk about coming peace you leave in peace? Yeah. And why is it where you come in peace, but you end in war? SubhanAllah. That's such a good case. And that's the thing that's I was getting it right is that we jump to the lawyers. And that's the problem. As a lawyer, I can only represent one side. Yes, we can
do mediation, we can try to do mediation. But a lot of times what happens is that if you do mediation with one lawyer, mediation doesn't work out. Now that lawyer can't represent either of you. Okay, so the legal system is forced to kind of pit each other against each other. But if you went to arbitration, or you went to the mom, or you went to the elders in the community, or somebody else that you trust and try to resolve your issues there, that's where you can actually end in peace. You're not it's very difficult to end in peace in a lawyer's office. You know, so that'd be my first thing. Don't jump to the lawyer's office necessarily. I mean, look at this. I mean, I want
you know, people to really let this sink in, you have imagine like someone wants to sell their stock and they're telling you to go away from their stock. I mean, this is really this is what a Muslim
about a guy conscious who really is more concerned with the next life than this, and you're giving, you know, beautiful advice, you know, stay away from the lawyer seriously.
I mean, this is really beautiful I had,
you know, you talk to different people, and it's really tragic to see and may God Almighty Allah protect us and protect those who are going through all of this and let this really sink in. There was a case of and there's a lot of these cases are you seeing this is actually from a marriage counselor, and an imam himself who went through the whole system. And it felt like possibly he went through this so he can see what's in the system. And he saw how a lot of this corruption that's happening. And he's now the opinion that you shouldn't even get married. That's like something you should really consider even going through.
The you should just do the niqab. You should just avoid all of this because at the end, it will just you'd be going through the wringer. It's no it was a trial to trial. He was traumatizing for him, you know? Absolutely. So I mean, I've talked about this before. And I think that it's something that I've entertained in my mind, right? What are the pros and cons of getting a Nikka and not having the state involved in all of that. And I think that what it came down to and kind of the conclusion I reached was that, okay, maybe do get married under the legal system, because what happens a lot of times is that perhaps our sisters, the most vulnerable in our society, individuals who are newly
Muslims, I've seen this a lot where sisters or you know, they they believe in the perhaps the western concept of marriage, they get married. A few years later, they get divorced, and they realize that, okay, I'm not protected under the legal system. Okay, for her that's really bad. On the other hand, you have divorces where you go to the legal system, and now the guy has to pay maintenance for 20 years and half his property is gone. So there's extremes on both sides, I think the middle ground would honestly be to, to get a prenuptial agreement. I think that Islam has certain terms that a marriage is supposed to abide by. And we have the freedom in this country, to
enter into those contracts and make our marriage and our divorce, divorce, especially in accordance to Islam. So I would caution against maybe. And again, I'm a lawyer, right. So I have to be careful in the type of things I say. But I would maybe caution about just getting a Nicca unless you truly understand the impact of it. And I think maybe the safer route and what I think our community should rise to is making Prenuptial agreements common. That's the I think that's the are we waiting on more of a trend in that now. Only recently, only recently, I think there's gonna be a lot of scholars, a lot of academics, a lot of people in our communities gonna watch this or should watch this. pass
this along. And this is a great starting point for many people who haven't even considered this because someone who's Have you seen this documentary? I think it should be just standard watching for anyone who who's considering divorce, or wants to go ahead and get more enlightened on what we're talking about divorce court. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that.
We have serious problems in our family law court system. This is a business, the more you charge, the more people are willing to pay. I said to the litigants, I want you to know if the two hours we will expend more than most people in this courthouse make in a year.
Your home your your valuables are all going to be sold the pay the lawyers and people like me, even though I was acquitted, he still made a decision to take my son away from me. His birthday was last week and I didn't get to see him. But you have is a tinderbox and the lawyers are throwing gasoline on that fire. But system is designed to create conflict. $50 billion dollar is crazy. And it's all the lawyers. It's the lawyers getting rich. Your college funds, your your retirement, that house you saved up for you're paying for the lawyers college, you're not paying for your own, and you're taking it from the kids. Yeah, subhanAllah isn't that ultimately what's happening? That's what's
happening. That's what's happening? Yeah, you're leaving a family solute solution and intimate solution to a corporation to a court system that you're just a number for? Yeah. Do you see this because a lot of times, any mom or she has good intention. He says like, look, it's out of my league. I tried just any pushes it over here. You know, instead of like, you know, having more involvement, he actually directs them to this system, not knowing what's how corrupt the system is. Now see that? I do see that happening. And I think it's our community's fault. We have a little gap right now. Right? We have the moms, you have the therapist, and then you have the lawyers. But
there's a big gap over here. And that needs to be as I was saying arbitration centers our own dispute resolution. So if Imams could refer them to these places instead of the lawyers, that might be one way to save money and have our principles control. They have that set up a lot of times in the UK. I see. Yeah. So UK has it the Jewish community has the Jewish community has it? Oh, my God. Yeah. Already. states here in the states in New York. They're all over the place. There. We have we could do it. We could do it. But I'm surprised it's not being done.
insha Allah make dua for me, I That's my goal. Inshallah, that's my goal that I want to establish a arbitration center or mediation center, where we can combine lawyers, scholars, most of these psychiatrist experts in that particular field to help us resolve issues and disputes in our own community. So make the Inshallah, that that actually happens, inshallah this shall be a catalyst for that. I hope. So. This is very, very well needed. Tell us now you also talk about the difference between when you go on you see a lavish office, you know, the 567 $900 attorney. Yeah, not much difference from No, not at all $300. Attorney? I don't think so. Not at all. No, I think what what
is important is experience and reputation, right?
Having a big office, or having charging a lot of money doesn't mean you have those things. Right, your lawyer should know, at least know, five of the judges in each county that you want them to represent. They should have at least some familiarity with that judge, they should have a reputation amongst other lawyers to know to resolve cases rather than just being a pit bull. And so what ends up happening is that you think you're bringing the big guns, but all you're doing is you're taking that money, like we said before, and giving it to these lawyers who are not going to have anything better, or give you anything of more value than your average three $400. Attorney. That's my
opinion. Yeah. It's solid. I mean, I think this is if somebody is experienced, right. They know the law. Yeah. A lot of it's just it seems like his show. I think so too. I think so too, it's a lot of show. And that's the thing is that you're creating a mill, because what you do is that you bring in the cases, you have a bunch of paralegals in the back who are doing all the work. And you know, you're pushing it along without your own values, your own advice actually coming to the client, you basically are a Yes, man, to your client. And for that client, it's all based on emotions. As a lawyer, you're supposed to be their logic, you're supposed to tell them to think in black and white
rather than thinking in revenge. But if you're those big lawyers, that's usually what you thrive on. Is that animosity. You mentioned the word revenge? Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about that. What have you seen what and you can spot it, you can spot where it's like, this is more emotional. This is not, according to the dean like 100%. Like think more logically, you know, talk about some Yeah. And so what I was saying before, too, right, is that as soon as the problem hits, we go to lawyers, and it's, it's usually revenge. That's what's motivating it is, how could you do this to me? Right? How could you do this to my family? And here's another thing, and it's sometimes it's not even the
two individuals, it's their families, who are throwing more stuff at the other side, saying you've Dishonored our family. And so it's these extraneous people who are putting more fuel in the fire fuel in the fire, just like the documentary, The lawyers admit that it's already a tinderbox. And they're putting just fired fire. They're adding, yeah, yeah. Why did they win? Another thing is documentary to talk about they have you fill out, you know, paperwork, to show how much at the end, you're worth. Yeah. What is this about? So they can at the end, suck you dry? That's where that's, that's what this documentary alludes to. Yeah. So basically, every case, if you're going to fight
about money, the first thing you have to do is called the financial disclosure. In Illinois, it's a nine page document, where you literally write every source of income, how much taxes you pay payroll taxes, what are your current balances on your accounts, what are you how much you spend on clothes, food, you break it all down, and you have to attach your bank statements, your tax returns and your pay stubs. That's like, standard. So you disclose it, both sides disclose it, but that's not it. If you want to go deeper, you can go deeper and say, You know what, I don't really trust what's happening in these financial disclosures. You can go three years back five years back and get every
bank statement, you can get experts hire to evaluate to see if they spent money. So yeah, finances, and children are the two major things in any divorce. So that's really what the case is concentrating on. One thing the mom told me who was himself going through this firsthand, he was sharing with us he was saying that one thing is the technique that they do the attorneys is that once you're with them now, and we're not again, we're not talking about extreme situation where someone's doing a right hook, uppercut, you know, no, we're not talking about that. We're talking about now that there is obviously some tension and just erupted. And now let's say the husband or
wife somewhat, they're trying to get back. They're trying to work it out. But now if they get with an attorney, the attorney says, Look, no speaking to the person, they got to come through me. So they closed that door. And there's no more talking. Yeah, what's going on there? So sometimes, it can go both ways. Yes. I have seen lawyers who say look, all community communication should go through me you hired me for a reason for the communication aspect. I'm going to be your logic. I'm going to be your filter. Sometimes that works. I'm of the opinion that the communication especially if there's kids, that keep the communication
Open between you and your ex spouse, because you're going to have to deal with each other forever. So yeah, I would be a little cautious for lawyers telling you not to do that. At the same time, there are instances where men or women use it as an excuse to say my lawyers telling me I can't communicate with you, when really, they feel low self esteem, they might not feel powered, empowered in the relationship. So they kind of use the attorney to speak on their behalf. So it can go both ways.
Going back, what are some of the before we even get to this? Like, what are this now? I mean, as a practicing Muslim, the signs that you see before they've been because these, like you said, these are the symptoms of something great, it's at the end, you know, but you can prevent a lot of these things. And you, I'm sure you have,
you know, foresight, like if they would have done this or this they could have prevented it, you know, a lot of things go back to just following the Dean properly. 100%. So what are the some of the things that advice you can give? You know, if we back it up,
to prevent someone from coming having to come see an attorney? Yeah, that's a good question. So first of all, look, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam told us there's four things you're going to look for in a spouse, right? You're gonna look for wealth, lineage, beauty, but the most important thing is their Deen. And we kind of we kind of just look at that in a very superficial manner. Okay, they have a beer, they wear this, they wear this, they do that. You don't really know if they pray, you don't know what kind of things are happening in their family. And so I think that the that the first thing is to understand the other party's values, forget about the appearances
Forget about all that and learn about them. I think second is to do premarital counseling. And that's just like there's a stigma against counseling in general therapy in general. We need to remove that and especially for premarital counseling, I would tell every mom not to do a Nicca until you do premarital counseling. Khalil said there's so many of them that do a four session premarital counseling, they learn about each one of you individually, you take a personality test, you talk about your past, you talk about your parents relationship, because these traumas, the way that you view the world is going to have a very big impact on your marriage. The other thing I would say is,
don't be so allergic to the advice of our parents, right? They have wisdom, they've seen life. They're looking 70 years behind and giving you advice. So don't discount it entirely. Right? So there is a lot of wisdom when our parents tell us to look at this, look at the family look at, you know, X, Y, and Z. And so don't just throw it all out and not take any advice from those who are around you. That's deep, you know, because if you have, you know,
to young people, and then you're going and getting advice from just anybody, let's see a friend who's not even married. Crazy, right? But your parents over here, they've been through the wringer like and they survive, they got some good, why are you just gonna exclude that? So sorry, this, this is very important. Going back to this. And I just again, I want to frame it. Because a lot of times people there's just so many sensitivities, and roadblocks to when you want to give advice. Everyone's like, don't judge me don't be judging every day, you know, judging someone if they're doing some good, or a lot of times, you know, people judged on other other aspects. You know, from
what we see what's apparent, but only God Almighty Allah obviously can judge you know, the hearts but so if we look at this example, from people who put their lives out there, if you were to give, let's say, Kanye, who seems like he's a religious person, so we'll translate it from here to now you if you are young man looking to get married and you're just looking about looks? What do you expect? I mean, he Kanye, he married someone who just known for putting themselves out there, right? Yeah. What do you what did you expect? I mean, I think this is all a show anyways, but that's a different story. Yeah. So what do you expect now? If you now let's take that and take it to the Muslims life?
I mean, young man, he's looking to get married, but he just focused on the looks. Yeah, or the woman? Same thing. It goes both ways. She's just like, Oh, that's my prince charming? And then how much does those Hollywood images affect the woman? In fact, the man, the fairytale marriages? Absolutely. I mean, that's what Instagram is doing. Right? That's what most of social media is doing is is selling you this lifestyle, which is just not true. This whole romantic aspect of marriage is very new. It's only 50 100 years, right? Most of marriage was a practical survival, human need that society, you know, put forward. So I think for us to for the young guys out there who are looking
for women, other women who are looking for guys like you got to get deeper, right deeper, not only when you're looking at marriage, but deeper in your own life. Right. Like, ask yourself, why do you practice Islam? Do you believe? What is your purpose like? I think unless it kind of backing up a little bit when we look at different worldviews a lot of times
We look at it from a lower level, but we have to zoom out. So like there's ontology anthropology, there's different ways that you can kind of look at a world system and critique it. What we're doing with this marriage aspect, or when we're telling a guy, Hey, don't look at only looks, the problem is that for the last 1520 years, that's all that's been touted to him and taught to him is that it's what the way that things look how you're perceived in society, that's what matters. So there's almost like this.
And brainwashing that we have to do. And I think it really takes us to have fraternities almost for men, to show them what character means to show them what it means to be masculine and to be a man. And I think that these things that we had in the past would help men understand what it means to be a man, and what to look for in wives. So I don't know if I can give just one bit of advice, but I think we need to kind of a training system for our men to become men. Hmm, this is so important. And there's, there's another thing I want to touch upon, it could be sensitive, but it's very important that we, you know, discuss these things, and hopefully, so they don't end up again, and because the
end result is over here coming to see you, right, or an attorney in a flashy office, and just wasting all the money at the end of the day. So now some scholars have told me, Eddie, this is something we're seeing and you know, you can show I'll be brave enough to talk about this. And this is out of love for our brothers who might have fallen into it. Sisters, what's your Have you seen the complaints of this? Sometimes you'll see, you know, and John Alia. Yeah, you know, we've had a lot of the men, they'd have their trophy girlfriends, right. And they flaunt them all around, but you know, as Muslim, and we have a leader, you know, even just protective, loving jealousy. So now,
they, the scholars are saying they're seeing this as a catastrophe about to happen where a lot of the brothers now they're taking their their wives and putting them out there for the world to see in a way. And this is not just them, just taking one picture together, they're making their career on Instagram or on Facebook, and, you know, putting his wife out there with the fish lips, and you know, just her with all the makeup and just like putting her out for the world to see. You know what I mean? Or the wife has? Yeah, so what have you have you seen this at the end result, this divorce link back to something like this, where it fell apart? because of things like this social back to
social media? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen the slippery slope of social media, slippery slope, right, of social media, of putting yourself out there. I mean, I can't imagine anybody ever thinking that I want the world to see my wife, and maybe that same guy, 510 years before, didn't think that right? But that's how shaitaan gets you it's step by step, right? And I think there might be some, you know, may God protect us all, like maybe some deficiency or some hole in your heart that you feel like by getting the likes, right, because nothing else is getting you the likes by exposing your, your family, your wives, you're the mother of your children, that you that that's how you want
likes, I think that should be an introspective place in your life to see why do I need to do that? You know, who are your children going to look up to? I mean, so how your mate is like a sad reality but and then the someone else's, what's it to you, but then the person says look, because now it trickles down. Now, instead of being a good influence, now, hold on. My family wants to do the same thing. You're doing it and now we want to do it now you're setting bad trends. And it reminds you the Hadith of the Prophet saw some said the one who sets a good trend, you know, a good sinner, revise something good, does something good will have the reward of it. But the one who said some bad
friend will have the consequences of that, you know, that's absolutely, yeah. So this is very, very deep. A lot of these things it kind of has, we've kind of get been in colocated into the culture. Yeah. And we're not seeing things from the Dean. Exactly. We just got to step out of it. We just got to step out of it, you know, maybe take the month of Ramadan or take some you know, sorry, I cutting you off. But yeah, take Ramadan, for example, as a opportunity to dis associate yourself in disattached from this virtual world, concentrate on your family, concentrate on your kids, that relationship between husband and wife really, that's the most important thing that we have is our
family and our spouses, our parents, and the whole world is just a distraction from that in my in my belief, and that's why I'm so passionate about this area. I've never wanted to be a divorce attorney, but I can see now that Allah is opening the doors where by understanding how the community is going through divorce, then I can inshallah talk about marriage, and
this use this opportunity, inshallah. This is great advice. Ramadan, right around the corner. Yeah. Now's that time. You know that spiritual bootcamp. Yeah, exactly. What else can you share with us before we work before we conclude, and are there are there any stories that really stood out that really pain the heart, you know, incidences that you can recall, you know, things that people can connect with, and they can go ahead and now, you know, use that example?
to have a real thing that they can touch feel, and that can impact their lives. Sure, better from some kind of short story that you you've been through and some kind of tragic divorce or what? Sure. So before the story, this one thing, you know, I want people to understand about marriage. Yeah, is when you go to that courthouse and you're getting that license, what does that actually mean? Honestly, they should make you sign a waiver. Because there's a lot of things that you're signing, when you're signing that license, even though they're not disclosing it to you, from the date you get married. Whatever assets you earn, the businesses, the savings account, whatever retirement
account, everything you accumulate, is going to be put into one pot and divided whether you earned it, the other person earned it, it doesn't matter, you are considered one human being one individual, according to Western marriage laws. And so the implications that come with that are huge. And so that'd be one thing that I'd like the Muslim community to understand. And anybody to understand, really, is what are you actually signing up for when you get married?
from a story perspective?
Man, I mean, I don't even know where to start. I have cases where kids are locked in the basement, I've had cases where people are putting cocaine in the kid shoes, so that they get caught at the airport. I've seen cases where Muslims already, they're all Muslims, man, they're all Muslims. They're all Muslims. I mean, I've I've had, I mean, this is very explicit. But I mean, kind of going off of your Instagram people where people are putting
their lives on blast. So much. So that our, we've gotten into like perversions almost, where people are exposing their spouses. And that's leading to divorces, you know,
just these crazy things. I mean, from a story perspective, the craziest one I can think of, I mean, there's so many crazy ones, but one that really sticks with me is
a guy, his kid's name is the same as my kid's name. But his spouse told the DCFS that he stuck something up his child's behind, okay.
And reported to DCFS emergency motion, couldn't see his kids. She filed another DCFS, another DCFS. This guy hadn't seen his kid. And it's funny, every time I talked to him, he's like, summer camp, other 341 days. That's how we used to talk, because that was how long it was, since he he didn't see his kid.
There was a psychiatrist involved, who was essentially brainwashing the child to make him believe that the Father is dangerous. So he came to a supervised visit with a shield and a sword to protect himself from his father. Like that was the spewing that they were doing in this kid's brain to make them against the father, after 3040 $50,000 finally got a psychiatrist report to show what's actually going on. And he saw his kid after a whole year. And that's just one out of a dozen cases that I have where parents haven't seen their kids.
Allah protect us.
I'm speaking I mean, this while Subhan Allah based on a lie. Oh, yeah, this is all started off for a lie. Yeah. And that lie was what motivated from what hate revenge was everything. And that's the thing in our system, like in the criminal world, you can't go to jail unless you're proven beyond a reasonable doubt, or you can't be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works in family law, and family law, you make the allegation, usually what's going to happen is that the judge is going to freeze everything, okay? You can't see the kid until we figure out what the truth is. It's almost like guilty until proven innocent in the family law system. Whereas it's the
opposite everywhere else, whoever does this, if you be a man, via be a woman, I mean, this is evil. This just hearing that this is sick, right? This is evil, and you think you can get away with it in this life. But that's why there's the Day of Judgment. And that's why there's there exactly, you know, consequences to your actions. So, you know, when people again, this could be a man or woman doing whoever's doing this evil, you know, they have to really think and reflect and this is just I just hearing this, I don't want away from their child for this long. And to put them I can imagine the kind of
emotional psychological trauma is like a torture, you go through this. And then to have someone else coming in, and it reminded me of that documentary, The divorce court, where they had this sick individual who's like, into bondage and all this other crazy, like, you know, stuff and he's actually the person dictating, he's the therapist that came in and he's telling the father, you know, the mother, he's telling them like, okay, dictating how they're supposed to be if they're fit parents. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Why are we having people who don't share our values, decide what happens to our kids, it said, and you and you, you open yourself up or the mom or the
shame when you
Send them. Yep, over here. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Wow, um, let me touch upon this. You know, one thing I was thinking about you have, and that goes back to the dean being perfect His way of life from the Creator Islam. You know, if you're indulging in dating, and you're kind of like setting yourself up for divorce at the end of the day, like, because what is it? It's like test driving, it's like, okay, you know, you go from one person, because that's often the complaint, you know, like, why? How are we going to get to know each other? How are we going to this than the other, but what happens, you feel like you're training yourself, because every time you date, someone what
happens like, as soon as things don't go, well, you're you cut out, you know, you go to the next person, and then you get excited, and you're dating, and the next what happens, you know, things get bad hits, you know, hits the fan, and you're out. And you've done this for so many years. And now you get married. And you're really excited because you thought you found the right person, but it's not. And then there comes the conditioning with Hollywood and all the other stuff, Bollywood. And now you've already conditioned yourself by dating, to divorce. Exactly. Because you haven't built those necessarily qualities, to be a good husband or to be a good wife, if you're just dating.
Because what you need to be a good spouse is patience. You need foresight, you need generosity, you need these different things that dating is not going to teach you right only Islam, something that, you know, can give you morals is going to teach you that but you're right, we don't have the tools prepped, ready to go for marriage, because we're lost in this society. We're gonna have to do this again. This is a very important topic. It's a it's one of my guests before said, this is a tsunami that's coming and we need the academics, you know, groupthink, you know, we need people of knowledge to come together and, you know, really talk to people like yourselves who are in the field who know
what's going on underground to get in touch with you. And so we can hopefully try to change the tide, you know, do some because you know, if the families destroyed societies destroying rizoma, then Exactly, yeah, exactly. So where can people if they want to get in touch with you. And
so, Faruqi, Hussein calm is our website if you if you Google Muslim lawyer, Muslim divorce lawyer, Chicago, we should come up. But look, anytime anybody has questions about Islam and how it relates to divorce or any scholars out there who are interested in this area. I would love to collaborate and come up with a solution because like you said, it's a tsunami, it can wipe away. You know, we worry about climate change. We worry about all these things. But what's bigger is our family. The story you just share with me, I'm still like, I don't Hannah, this is like took the energy out.
And you how do you sleep asleep at night and hearing? And this is just one? Yeah, this one? And this one? Has this left you with almost like a list that the PTSD? No, I mean, you definitely have to separate right, you have to separate and really go back to what is our purpose, right. And you know, if I can concentrate on my family, my community, and kind of take that energy and pour it into here. I think that's my way of coping with it. But it is sad man it is it is deep to see people that you see walking around in the masjid. And again, we're not perfect, I'm not perfect, you're not perfect, but it gives you a opening to what the human condition really is, and that the Muslims are not, you
know, they're not blind to it, and they're being impacted by it. Subhan Allah, do you ever come to a point where you're just like, you know, obviously, you have certain standards, you have to go by and everything is there. And there's limitation or restraints. I'm sure because a lot, but sometimes you when you hear stuff like this, when you're going through it your client, and you're just like, you know, it just you want to approach the other person's be like, how Don't you feel like you're Muslim? Right? Yeah. How where's your mind? Does it ever come to that? I mean, sometimes so like, it depends. Sometimes it depends why the client wants you. Right? I'm guessing that if you hire me, I
mean, maybe you trust maybe you've heard something, but I'm hoping because I'm Muslim. Yeah. Right. And maybe you're open to what other knowledge or experience I have, not only through divorce, but from the Islamic tradition as well to help in that process.
But besides that, I mean,
as well.
Thank you spend some time with us, of course. Exactly. Thank you so much for having me. It's an important topic. I'm glad you're hitting it. And may Allah accept you and increase you and you've had such a big impact on me and the Chicagoland and all of America stuff. I mean the Milan got on my luck. I mean, I mean thank you, of course. And thank you guys for tuning in. Very important topic. Go ahead and leave your thoughts in the comments below. If you've gone through something like this you know your experiences
and if you feel this is something that should be talked about more share it with your local mom your share other people's out there so they can get more of a personal
Have you been also like this mom that I mentioned who's actually going through the system, and you have something that you want to share? Share it with us and we'll see you next time here again on the Dean show, subscribe if you haven't already. We'll see you next time. God will inshallah and if you cannot leave without giving you a gift, if you're not yet Muslim, and you tune in and see what these Muslims are talking about, and you'd like a free copy of the Quran, go and visit the deen show.com. We'll take care of the postage and everything and get it delivered to you. And if you still have some questions about Islam, call us at 1-800-662-4752 We'll see you next time. Until
then, Peace be with you. Uh, Salam aleikum. And if you like this episode of the deen show, like this video, share this video far and wide and support us on our Patreon page so we can continue this work. Thank you for tuning in. Peace be with you a Salaam Alaikum
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