Channel: Siraj Wahhaj
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In today's episode of The Amman wire podcast, no matter how many people took Shahada to my hand and hamdulillah to me is still not enough. I want to do more. I'm excited today about Islam as I was 30 years ago, 40 years ago.
So I pray Our last pot of water keep me that way that I die as a Muslim. And as I lived as a Muslim inshallah
that's when I'm okuma. Welcome to the mind wire podcast slim here with my co host, dar Salaam Alaikum. I consider I'm studying how you handle that hamdulillah. And really, it's an honor to welcome our guests mmm Suraj Hodge, as I call him, I'm sorry, while he comes to our home to LA It is my honor you don't understand is my honor to be with you, brothers, you on the field, and you're doing the work and Bella Swan water Bless you. And I am very appreciative of all the good work that you're doing.
Speaking of field work, you know, it's a great way of introduction. And of course, for our listeners, there's really there's no introduction, and I'm Suraj necessary, but I wanted to share a few personal connections with with you. Hmm, so Raj Raj. Actually, I already started before we did the POC as I showed you this picture
of you, myself and my father. I was on a trip abroad it was actually I think on the road to Damascus.
And and you remember that stroke I remember because I remember Hey, you remember you would quiz me like you do remember who was on a trip was right. I'm like, Oh, yeah, yeah, Hakeem Olajuwon. Exactly. Exactly. And I remember even photo bombing like a picture of a Kim Olajuwon on that trip because I didn't get a chance to directly meet him. But I was impressed that you actually remember that that trip. That's,
you know, I know I don't interrupt you, but you can never underestimate the impact of people. And one of the ones is Hakeem Olajuwon. Absolutely. An extraordinary example. When especially now the Muslim youth are looking for, you know, present day heroes, role models, when a large one was in Houston, Texas, and he was on the basketball team the rockets.
If you ever wanted to find him, go to the masjid fudger.
Always there. Whenever is in town, you find them in the masjid in the budget and a real good Muslim. So to see him. You know that that area? He heard that we will there? Actually we will end in line. Jordan Yeah, exactly. How do we get there? And he came, he came to the to the, to the hotel that we had dinner with us. Yeah, so I remember I remember like, you know, seeing him there. And but I wanted to share that that story of the trip because that picture was very special to me. It was it's it's been in my room, like, it's under my room. And people get a picture of like you massage. Your bride, your father and I was like was like was really special to me. And I'll tell you why. Because
no, this is over 20 years ago. And forgive me most Raj for sharing this, but I felt necessary to share this just like my personal connection with you. I think like for a lot of people from my generation, you know, that, you know, you're instrumental in a lot of our own tasks of the deen. And I'll tell you a story of like, actually, one of my first memories, I think my first memory of hearing you, I was probably about nine, nine years old or so like that.
Because I grew up in East Coast. And I was I used to see you at events after that. But my first interaction, I think of hearing you, I was probably at nine years old. And the message that you gave that night was like resonate with me so much. That literally that evening and I was like I didn't really have an understanding of a lot of things with Dean, right. But I remember, you know, you remember, pick a specific dollar that you make, right, right. So that night, I mean, I I was on my knees, you know, before sleeping, and I literally like you know, I prayed I was like all on what you had inspired me that night. I said, Oh Lord, just let me
live in other days so I can get my life right. I mean, that was that was like, you know, you planted that seed for me and and a lot of people my generation Pamela and I would be remiss to not Thank you
publicly for that, you know, I'm not told the story to people but it's something that I feel and that was a journey for me because I kept on seeing you at events and and and and you were our influence you know, they talked about social media influencers now you were like an influencer. And then like then I saw you like about you know, that time when we're in Jordan and and over and over again. And that brings us to sort of what I wanted to like talk about a lot with you today is
Because actually we're interviewing you at a fundraiser, yes. And a fundraiser for Turkey Academy, which is the first IB primary, your school and one thing to share as well on my site. And this is usually the podcast with the email Siraj, and we need to hear him. But just as an Amana, in front of Allah subhanaw taala, I wanted to also share, you know, part of and forgive me for interrupting. And this is a very important point, please come back to it. But just to give you a shift in a small nugget of what I experienced when I first came to the United States, it was back in 99, I, when I first came, I came from Syria, and right off of high school, and I was just learning English and
hamdullah things are fine, or whatever. And then I got to my college in New Jersey, and then all of a sudden, you know, in my second year or third year, you know, I started, you know, getting to know, the MSA is and what the MSA is all about, it was just all foreign to me. And Islam was just part of my background of the mosaic that I lived in my life all along. And Syria has a lot of, you know, different interpretations, what Islam means, but Subhanallah, I want to just to share one thing as well, and I appreciate your patience, is that, you know, people told me, let's go to the MSA zone conference, I'm like, What is this, let's go to it. And then like, I hang out with some of the MSA
folks and we were just like, hanging out, let's go and, you know, let's have a bite, you know, after that, and whatever. And I remember distinctly, you know, getting to understand a new way or a new version of Islam power lie, you know, and, and one of the very lectures and I didn't know who you are, Chef, no, before that, by the way, I didn't, I was just like, this new immigrant faab coming from
then. And that's how I attended. I was fascinated, I didn't know, first of all, by the your name, you know, I was like Suraj Hodge, you know, that was a fascinating name, you know, for a shift. And then, on the other hand, scholarship, now I wanted to, you know, you know, kind of remind myself that in your lecture, which I don't remember most of it, but you mentioned something, first of all, the way that you presented, the way that you spoke was was just very, you know, touching to my heart, I was this dormant Muslim, you know, and, and you said something very simple, you know, you said, You are a Muslim, aren't you get up and do something for Allah, Allah Akbar. That's it, you
know, really, it was just like, as simple as that. But the way that you that came out from your heart, you know, as our Prophet is sort of sit down, you know, and a lot of the RMS say, what comes out of your heart, you know, you know, reaches the heart. So you have Muslim, aren't you like one of the get up and do something for Allah, you know, and it was maybe around that, it was that and a couple of other experiences that pauwela shaped me who I am, that I sprung from this cultural Muslim, that a lot of people you know, unfortunately live in to an active, you know, somebody who is trying to improve himself improved surroundings around him, and improve, you know, you know, as they
say, as the Prophet say, like plant a seed, or good seed. So I want to just do again, on my end, thank you, as well for all that generational, you know, guidance that Allah Subhana Allah has bestowed on you and disseminated through you before Sunday. And before you go on to them, I want to say something in and this is really remarkable about, I've been doing this for a long time. I can't if he asked me how many years I'd probably say 40 years, 45 years, something like that. Um, and, and I'll be honest with you, I've traveled around the world, I've traveled around the country. And
I never understood the impact that we had on people when I never did. About seven years ago, people started telling me,
I'll start talking about I'm talking about the leaders of the Muslims first,
this shake this Imam, and how, you know, they benefited from us years ago, how we affected them. And then seemed like everybody started telling me everywhere I went, United Kingdom. So you know, mm Salas, when you, you came to England, you were the one and in South Africa and so forth and so on. And you know, what, whatever effect that we might have had, Allah hid it from me. And I think Allah hid it from me so that I will never get a big head. I never felt like Do you know who I am? I am the Siraj wahhaj.
I never felt that way. You know, I felt like a regular guy. I felt the Lord had blessed me, and, and hamdulillah in the last few years, I've come to realize, based upon testimony of so many people, the impact that we made and I'm very grateful to Allah
for having done something for him. So I just wanted to tell you that you were talking about field work and and
We're meeting you here again as a fundraiser and you're still you're still doing the work of a fundraiser for, as I said, turbie Academy, which is the first IB primary school and in Islamic school in, in the United States, and it's, you know, they've, they've been able to facilitate us getting a chance to talk to you. So I want to thank them for that. But I got to say, most regimen, we just finished a fundraiser. And I was, I was going back to when I was like, nine years old. Seriously, you know, it's been a while since I got to hear you live. And it's still it's a picture I told you about, yes, you look at a picture now you saw it. I mean, like, I
have aged horribly, but you're
gonna save so and you're still you're really inspiration, you're still keep keep on doing the work. But obviously, you know, we want to talk to you today about
basically how our generation you know, the younger group, not just, you know, the, you know, the, the lay people like ourselves, but also there's their scholars from amongst our age group as well. And I wanted to sort of, like get your impression, first of, you know, being in the community working, being in the trenches for so long. And now, you know, like, 2019
be interesting to hear some of your, your, your feelings or your impressions about some of the shifts that you've seen. We live in some very interesting times. Lemon is this is talk about presently in our country. Um, if you were asked me, I would have told you that, in my opinion, Hillary Clinton would have been a much better president than Donald Trump. You know, it is not even it's not even, you know, this not it's not even debatable, far as I'm concerned.
But I felt that if Hillary Clinton had become president, the Muslim would have gone to sleep. And I think that you know, I am I am a firm believer in what the prophet Alayhi salat wa salam said, ajibade lambro movement. wonderous is the fate of the believers, no matter what happens for him is good. You know, if he has some adversity, he is patient, and as good for him. And for law gives him some, you know, some blessings. he's thankful, and that's good for him. And the thing about Donald Trump is that it is caused Muslims not to go to sleep.
Because here's a man does not really just against Islam, but against a lot of values against people get people of color, immigrants, and things like that. So in a crazy sense, he has brought us together. Muslims now are very active. We have two Muslim sisters in the Congress of the United States of America, Sister rasheeda. Talib out from from Detroit, and says the Ilhan Omar from Minneapolis. I know both of them very beautiful sisters. So you see a lot of Muslims now and being engaged. And that's good. It's a it's a trying time. We have more Muslim schools now. We have we have as you know, we have to fundraise. Just as you mentioned, tonight, in New York City, we have 35
full time Muslim schools. So but the fact of the matter is only 5% of the Muslims go to Muslim schools. So 95% of our children go to non Muslim schools, public schools.
So we live in a time where it's difficult is difficult. We have some some Muslims who are leaving the deen other people like the masjid yesterday they told me in last few days were like seven people took Shahada So on one hand you got you have to you have to doors and every Masjid you have the front door by which people become Muslim Imam Zaid Shakir Sahaja Hodge Hamza Yusuf Abdul Hakim Jackson, I'm talking quick Bilal Philips, all of the sohaib web, all of us came through the front door. But on the other hand, we have a backdoor by which Muslims are leaving the fold of Islam. So the job of the Imams is open wide the front door and close that back door. And this is our This is
Muslims 1/3 of the Muslim Omar live in non Muslim countries. So what do you find them you find in the United States, you find them in Great Britain, you find them in Europe, you find them all over the world. So um, so we are the West. So the question now for me is what are we going to do the Muslims in the West? How will we have an impact on the people of society so, so good things are happening, that at the same time, we know we have these great challenges Muslims live in the full full fold of Islam. You did mention shift now about some of the, you know, political advances, so to speak, that were as a result of this spring into action of some community collectively right after
the last elections. And I wanted to also ask you, you know, in terms of the non police
Recall, you know, or the educational, social, although everything's connected, right. I wanted to ask you more precisely about that spring into action phase have we, in your, you know, assessment
gotten better in doing this because as much as you see very key improvements happening, you know, especially Muslims have been, you know, kind of, you know, they don't spring to action until they're really nudged. That's exactly the point. Yeah, the point of what have you seen in your, you know, experience specially compared to the previous two generations, you know, that we have gotten to do a good job socially, on an educational basis on a maybe an economical basis to kind of look inward, have the suburban Muslims maybe looked a little bit more inward towards their city, Muslims have the, you know, immigrants reached out a little bit more maybe to the African American indigenous
Muslims are here for many, many decades and moleben, I'll just come back return from the United Kingdom. And and all the Muslims in the United Kingdom, marvel at the Muslims United States, because we've reached a level of sophistication that they admittedly don't don't have, for instance,
I was amazed that last year in Birmingham, UK, they had a prayer in a park 140,000 people attended to eat prayer in Birmingham. But the people in England, England tell me that Birmingham is one of the most
divided communities in all of the United Kingdom, although they came together for the aid prayer. So there's a certain level of sophistication that's that that the Muslims in America has has done a better job. For instance, years ago, there's some Muslim scholars who will not even sit in the same table together. Now they're meeting
in New York City, you have any idea how many Muslims in New York City? Would you like to guess?
You know, we'd like to guess. Yeah, just about a year ago, we were getting about 120 150,000. Very good. 1,300,000.
You're not that far. All right. So So you got you guys, you have that. And we have like I'm, I'm the Vice President of the magic shore of New York. Right, very active. One of the most active shores in United States of America. It's a good mixture, African Americans in the president is from Algeria, Vice President African American treasure from Ghana. Another sure a member from Bangladesh. So we have a nice mixture. So we get together. And so a lot of those moms wouldn't sit together in the past, now work together. So it's better, it's better. Socially, Muslims are interacting between the Muslim, the African American Muslims, indigenous Muslims, Muslims, and indigenous Muslims, are the
immigrant Muslims are learning about Black Lives Matter, these conversations that are happening. So it's a tremendous growth. And
to me, things are definitely looking up. How do I know because we've done these sessions and universities all around America. And we see immigrant Muslims say, Oh, now I get it. Now. I understand now. And it's all about communication. It's all about talking to one another. So we have a lot of that going on. It's not just you know, unique to New York City, because New York is all over the country. In my opinion, Allison, some areas are more progressive than others. Some some getting better, but it's happening. So I'm pleased with the, you know, listen, there's always room for improvement. But in general, Muslims are moving in a good space, in my opinion.
That's really refreshing to hear. Because actually, I think a lot of people think like, we always look at the negatives, you know, and we tend to focus on the negative really like, Oh, yeah. Social media, right. Because everything social media, everything is about calling people out now. You know. So, I mean, even among, even among Muslims, Well, unfortunately, it has, you know, I'm not going to say progressively, it has really gotten to a point where, you know, if, no matter how much you do for Islam, maybe decades and decades of work, it could be one instance
in which is and it can be a genuine mistake, you know, I've seen that people write you off. And unfortunately, people online are, you know, not very, you know, you know, people usually say behind the keyboard things that they don't usually say when they're meeting you face to face, and it has gotten to lose a lot of that spiritual depth as well in terms of good counsel or good even good content.
Do you know between us? Yeah, I'm assuming there's some of that, you know this there's some of that but I think that the good outweighs the bad. My opinion Michelle, do you feel that with you know, the advent of like say social media with a lot of even like distance learning a lot of Do you feel that the the masajid have have suffered in any way because there's not needed before there was only one game in town in the sense of made by humans. If you wanted to get your Islam like you there was no other place to go then to go to the masjid and and you know, and meet the Muslims there and being a community but a lot of a lot of the the trend now is a lot of people have some even question
whether they really need to be attending a Masjid. Listen, there's no question that and I think research will back it up the most there are more Muslims outside of the masjid than inside the mastic. That's a given fact. Right. I tried to deal with what's, what's the reality? What's our reality? Can we reach them? wherever you find the Muslims? Where are the Muslims, wherever you find the Muslims, you're going to find some they're trying to do some good. I don't expect everyone to go to my Masjid. I don't expect all Muslim to go to all the messages. But I do expect wherever you go, you're going to find Muslims. You know, in social media, so I'm not I'm I may not be as concerned,
perhaps, as others.
That's just, that's just the reality. Wherever you find the Muslim, let there be someone to help them in sha Allah to preserve the deen chagasic. Tonight, he talked about the Islamic schools.
We have more Islamic schools schools than we ever had before. But again, we have you know, again, we have we have both we have people coming into Islam, some some Muslim going outside of Islam. So we do the best that we can. I think for a lot of us of my generation, we're sort of spoiled in a sense, because we don't recognize a lot of the sacrifices that our previous generation had to had to go through. Especially in the sense of say, like you said, schools, or even for example, like,
like food, for example, like, you know, like a lot of people from our parents generation. And they didn't they didn't have options for like hello meat, or they didn't have all these restaurants that were seen a lot of special a lot of urban areas now and a lot of cities and things like that. Do you feel that there's this there's there's an element of say entitlement or the sort of spoilage amongst,
you know, our generation? And if so, what are ways that we can mitigate it probably is, but you know, probably one of my problems I'm going to be honest with you, is that I don't know what's going on. Unless I'm told, like, for instance, by people like you, and I think it's important for your generation to talk to our generation, to let us know what's going on, we have a mind map, we have what's called straight talk, like once a month, we bring the youth together. And we try to have we try to have some dialogue. But what happens is that sometimes we may not be in touch. So I have one reality, and you have another reality. And I think it's important for you to do this, we need this
kind of conversation, not necessarily in the broadcast, but to talk to from generation to generation, not only not only cross cultural cross generation, and have these kind of dialogues, and then it teaches us the reality, sometimes my secretary, my secretary young, and she told me about some of the things that's going on in the community. And I said, Wow, I didn't know that. So that's why my views one way or very positive, always think about the positive. But there's another world out there that you guys have to help me to learn. The Prophet said Alayhi salat wa salam, he says chromatic gardening, formula dinner, you know, home formula dinner, you know, the best amount
matters, my generation, and then the generation that follows it, and then the generation that follows it. And usually the further away you get by guess it was mentioning, you know, today, grandfathers and great grandfather's practicing Islam. By the time you go to third and fourth generation, there's no there's no, there's no Islam. So, um, so yes, you know, I have the first one in my family to become Muslim. And at Hamdulillah, after that many Muslims, children, grandchildren, but again, the further they get away from my generation, then the more trials they're gonna have, have we been disillusioned with
the principles of what we should hold on, you know, based on this many distractions that we see now with the internet and everything that's going on? Have you seen with the younger generation, some sort of, you know, kind of, you're not looking at the Your eyes are not on the ball, you know, your eyes are somewhere else, you know, so to speak. Again, I realized from this conversation that I have to have some conversations with you all you got to you got to school us what's going on because I think
when I saw on the washington dc there was a group of young Muslims. Wherever I went after the program they get together they say, ma'am, sir, are we going to this restaurant tuberculous nice restaurant and and we will talk lewd have fun. One of those young youngsters named Ali went to the west coast. And he came back and visit me one day and he said he might be about 21 years old. He said, Mom, I hate going to the masjid on Juma. I know, I don't like it. I said, Why? He said, because it's not relevant. They don't, they don't, they don't relate to me. And that, that opened up my eyes. And so we had a conversation. And this is what we need. We need more of that. I'm saying
I'm, I'm expressing it now. Because talking to you, it's like, Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't I didn't know that's that's that's going on. So there has to be this this conversation between us. So I can't begin to solve the problem unless I know what the problem is. Right. So with that in mind, it will say ma'am Suraj in terms of a you are you interact with a lot of, of Muslim scholars and Imams and leaders in in the country, you know, who are aware from, you know, younger, the younger generation or the middle, you know, what are some of the things that you feel that they need to prioritize? Maybe they need to tell me you see that's what i don't i don't get I don't I don't feel
that way. I got it. I got to school these younger I don't feel that way. I'm telling you. I'll be honest with you. I don't feel that way. I don't feel like I have to school them on anything. I think that we can talk to one another more are we he said Lackey, Mala. Do tangible. There's no real wisdom without experience. So yeah, I got years of experience, but they also have something. And I think that us having, you know, together to talk together, talked with the immigrant and the indigenous African American Muslims, Latino Muslim, was one of the greatest the fastest growing Muslims in America are Latino Muslims. So this brother, Mujahid Fletcher, from Houston, Texas,
really is leading the way for the Latino Muslims in America. So there has to be dialogue all the way around. And like Mr. Salas got to get you youngsters you got to teach you got no I don't feel that way at all. I think all of us have to sit together and have some dialogue. And what one thing has as a result of this, my conversation with you? I will I intend to do that now.
To talk to more every occasionally have meetings, town hall meetings, and things like that. So I want to be more educated in what's happening in you know, Sydney can think about it, man from week to week, the week I'm in a different city, a different country. And you know, when is When do I get a chance to really sit down
and see what's going on? Like, we come here tonight, right to tarbiyah Academy fundraiser for Muslim school. But as I told you, what about the 95% of the Muslim children not going to Muslim school? What's going on? How they get along? How are they getting along in the public schools, it's a real issue. So, you know, sold, or, to conclude, there's a lot of work to do, given that you're still going, you know, doing all these machelle all these events and serve as a community, what's kept you grounded? What are your suggestions to Muslims who are you know, on the front lines, you know, getting involved a lot of political social engagement, a lot of these efforts that we're seeing in
the masjid outside the machine and the communities You know, there's a lot of you know, problems with burnout there's a lot of problems with short sightedness, you know, losing you're losing perspective on the long term and long term vision. What are some of your suggestions? You know?
I love Islam. I cannot see myself not not practicing Islam. And if you ask me what a man why you have mean What kept you grounded? How know at this love Islam, I believe in it. And, and I've lived it. You know, I think part of the experience as an African American struggling in this country, more Luther King Jr. said he gets behind in the race must forever remain behind one facet and the man up front. So we running hard. I don't I don't even have time. I don't you know, I pray a lot smarter. I keep that in my heart. Keep focus, keep working. I can tell you this from the moment I became Muslim. I've been working I've been working for Islam. And maybe that that that is that has helped
me. So um,
another thing I study, I study every day, my ideal vacation, honestly, give me some books and give me a corner. My wife will tell you always in the book. I just love I love. I love studying. I love research more than I love talking. I want to talk because I have to do it. They asked me to talk I didn't I didn't say I want to I want to talk you know if you know me when I was young, you will never think I will be a public speaker. I remember
When I was in, we were in junior high school, what were my junior high school. And our English teacher used to make us read in front of the class. And I used to sit in the back of my seat and hide behind the desk, because I don't want to I don't want to read publicly, you know, and, but after I first joined, which is another conversation, 1969, I joined the Nation of Islam, it was then that I really learned to read and then become an a Sunni Muslim, in 1975, and then open up my, my, you know, my heart to reading, learning and studying. I love, love to learn. And so
that has helped me a lot. Angela, I want to thank you in Montserrat, for you know, taking the time out. Listen, my Lord bless you brothers. And what I would love for you don't you probably don't it is continue to get information
and get it to the right people. So that we can make a difference. I've always believed that when people know better, they do better. I know for me, always, when I know better, I do better. And a lot of the Muslims that I know, you know, many of us came to Islam at the same age 17 1819 if you talk to hums and emem zaidan rest of us. It was that year, you know, in college and you know, in high school, we kind of found ourselves and Allah blessed us, you know, the stay stay the course.
I think a lot of Muslims have taken the Islam for granted. I remember I was a Christian. I was seven years old, or Sunday morning, getting ready to go to church and I'm getting dressed. And I told my mother, I was a Baptist.
Christian. I said, though, what? Why have you got to go to church anyway. So what my mother did, she got a strap.
She hit me a couple of times, and said, Now you understand why we got to go to church. I said, Yes, ma'am. But I didn't understand. And she explained to me. So years later, I left the church. I went to the masjid. Our children asked him the question, why we got to go to the masjid. I don't understand why I got to work him on. Why I got to do this. Why I got to go to madrasa wagar go to Muslim school. How come I have to make Salah. They asked the same questions. And I think what happened is that
we took the Islam for granted many, many of them, you know born to Muslim parents.
Again, I had no one to turn to when I became Muslim. So then, now I'm the first generation of Muslims. I love it. Now my children, the Muslims, most of them, you know, but they got to find the way I found. And it because they can't be a Muslim because I'm a Muslim. I asked my children they were young. I said you don't want to you don't want to be Muslim. You You show you want to be Muslim. Yeah, we want to be Muslim. You sure? Yeah. So you don't have the most of you don't want to be no, we want to be Muslim. So it's again, and I appreciate it. I know what I used to be. And many of our children hadn't experienced the dunya
though some of them are now So anyway, I you know, I make dua for you brothers, to get the information out to the people to do your research. So that so that we can make a difference because I always want to make a difference.
No matter how many people took Shahada to my hand and hamdulillah to me still not enough. I want to do more. I'm excited today about Islam as I was 30 years ago 40 years ago
so I pray Allah spawn water keep me that way that I die as a Muslim. And as I lived as a Muslim inshallah does algo Karim's Raj May Allah reward you for your review, bless you and your family for all these tremendous service to the community. And as you said, we hope to see it keep you know, your your energy is something that is still very much part of our community certainly is for me, I know from radar for you as well, I mean, and a handle, you know, we're really honored to be able to have this short conversation with you, and inshallah again, hopefully we'll try to catch you again Sharla before you have a 4am flight, the next
fleshes buzz, I really do appreciate it, appreciate you, and all the work that you do and
help us the Imams, the leaders, the uncles help us to get into the 21st century. If even if you have to drag us in some of us you're gonna have to drag this fall. I mean, this podcast although is it's short, you know. And you mentioned that you want it to be in a better energy but your simplicity in delivering the the principles
They know that the message is very inspiring to us. And we believe in the burqa by the way of having to sit in front of you. And we believe in the burqa that you carry, Mashallah. And we believe in the, you know, Salah, and like Islam is simple, you know, and those who carry it speak to the point, right? And that is to us, you know, something to the listeners, I'm sure, you know, we don't have to speak a lot in terms of the
we don't have to philosophize a lot. We don't necessarily more complicated, right? So we just make it keep it to the point and the fact that you mentioned that after four years, you are as excited about Islam as the first day is something for everybody to reflect upon. And may Allah Allah make us of those who do reflect and act upon it. I mean,
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