Social Justice Episode 23 – Why is Riba Haram?

Omar Suleiman


Channel: Omar Suleiman


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Hadith #23: Why is Riba Haram? | 40 Hadiths on Social Justice

A thorough look at the harms of usury to society and why it’s so strongly prohibited in Islam.

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learn a lot I mean when October 2016, almost Hollywood cinema vertical arm Dakota silica Mohammedan Salalah heininger soleimani only he was so happy he was selling for Suman kathira. So we're moving on now, in a topic that's very much so connected to last week. What was last week's topic?

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greed. Sure. Okay. So last week, we talked about greed. And we mentioned greed, sort of as the, you know, if you're starting to peel the layers of social injustice,

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most of what we see of social injustice, in some way or the other is connected to greed, and draws from the fountain of greed. And so we talked about greed, and that had a very spiritual element to it. Now we come back to the outwardly, okay, and the outwardly of greed is greatly manifested in a river in this concept of usury in this practice of usury, and interest. And I'm going to start off with the Hadith. And to be very honest with you, there are numerous Hadees and there are numerous ayat but for the sake of keeping ourselves on track, and maintaining a hadith to start off every discussion, the Hadith that we'll start off with his narrative by sitting on the outside and he said

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that I heard the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam say, In hedgetrimmer there so this was the farewell pilgrimage of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. These are his last words, his last address to the oma and the prophets, Allah Allah Allah, Allah, Allah in Kula ribbon, min ribbon, La Jolla Timo do not come through Somali come he said soleimani salam that verily all of the usury all claims to usury. Everything that had to do with interest in usury

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is forbidden for you. Now, it's all vanished. Now it's all been abolished. And he said, that you have,

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you still have lecan roselawn widecombe, which means you still have your capital gains, you still have your capital son's sums, but the rubber part, the interest has been abolished. So any interest that was due on a loan has now been abolished, anything that has to do with Riba has now been abolished, usury has now been abolished. And then he says, lovely moon or whatever, to the moon, do not wrong and do not be wrong, do not wrong and do not be wronged. And it continues this hadith continues, obviously with some of the other messages of the messenger sallallahu wasallam, in that farewell pilgrimage, and the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. Asking a lot on the left, have I conveyed

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the message. And he asked that three times to the people and then he says, a lot of money Beloved, a llama fish head or a lot. I've conveyed the message as you commanded me to do so a lot bear witness that I have conveyed that message that you've commanded me to convey. So, this farewell address of the prophets lie Selim, he's giving many of the ethical guidelines that are necessary to function as a community. The very first ethical guideline he gave was the abolishment of racism in this farewell pilgrimage, that there is no superiority of an Arab over a non Arab or a non Arab over an Arab or a white man over a black men or black over white, all of them are equal in the sight of Allah subhanaw

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taala. So he's giving these ethical guidelines. This is the one that has to deal with finances, the abolishment of usury, the complete abolishment of Riba. Now let's break this down. This topic is a topic that has great relevance to our lives for many reasons. Number one, it's very hard for people to understand why there's such a strict prohibition on usury when we live in a financial system that functions on usury. And in fact, the global financial system pretty much functions on a river. There's also this idea that Muslims are exclusive in their prohibition of river because of the normalcy of labor and other societies, the normalcy of usury and other societies. So what's the big

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deal? The other thing is that for a lot of Muslims, the prohibition on Riba seems like a harm rather than a benefit. Right? So what you know, I can't do this, I can't do that. I can't do this. So you mean, I can't buy this, you mean, I can't get into this contract. So the prohibition of Riba is meant to free and liberate. But to many people, it feels like it's restrictive. It feels like it's holding me back and not allowing me to function within my full potential as a business, or within my full capacity as an individual in a society that functions on labor functions on the system of usury. And then there's this question that comes usually like why, why is Islam so strict about

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this? Like, what's the big deal? And then why is it strict on the person who gives? I understand that

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You know, the strictness on the on the one who takes and institutions, financial institutions in the banking system? But why the one who has to take a loan? Why is Islam so strict and harsh when it comes to Liberty? So these are some questions that usually come up. And we're also very reactive, we're not proactive. We don't look at the prohibition of Riba as a means of bringing about goodness in our society, a healthier financial system. Rather, we look at the prohibition of Riba as something that's holding us back. So how is it that this is meant to benefit society? First and foremost, what connection does this have to greed? What does it have to show on the individual level

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the importance in Islam of living within your means? Okay, that's a big part of our religion, living within your means. A lot of people because of the availability of credit lines, and the ability to get into contracts that will hold you down for decades, and you are projecting

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on the future that you're going to be able to pay your monthly note. Why? Because you're able to do it today. So you don't ever imagine yourself being in a situation where you default, where you're not able to pay off your car note, you're not able to pay off your mortgage, whatever it may be. And then something happens to your health, something happens to your job. And you end up in a written a disastrous situation, where you're unable to pay your note and you're being evicted, you're losing your car, or the debt just keeps on piling on you the late fees or whatever it may be, and you're just getting, you know, swarmed by the phone calls and whatever it may be. Right. So living within

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your means is an Islamic concept on an individual level. And the average American, by the way, hovers around $5,000 in credit card debt. So everyone, usually we're you know, we're talking about the goals in Islam of not being in debt. But it's actually something and seek refuge in a law firm, we try not to be in a state of debt. So almost every American hovers in some state of credit card debt, okay. On a societal level, most powerful is in the poor, and it's actually not connected to the bar per se, was connected to how we view money. And let me let me offer this disqualifier. I'm not a Marxist, we're not talking. Again, we have unique paradigms, unique paradigms in our

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tradition. So sometimes it might sound a little too socialist. Sometimes it might sound capitalists are very rare. But try not to associate it with a secular ideology. These are our unique paradigms. Allah says in Surah Al Heschel, he says, a lie akun kainai akuna do that and bane of any income. So that money and I'll read the translation, it's the seventh sort of hashtag, which is the 59th surah Allah says, so that it will not become a perpetual distribution solely amongst the rich from amongst you, so that your money will not become perpetual distribution solely amongst the rich amongst you, okay, that money is not meant to belong to a small group of elite individuals, to the detriment of

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everybody else. And there is a you know, this idea of distribution of making sure that money comes from the alchemy out that money is distributed amongst the poor as well.

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is important and it's an equity that Allah subhanaw taala highlights. So the prophets lie Selim outlawed, profiting in the worldly sense from loans by saying that profit is contingent upon liability. He said some a lot honey was sometimes I can look at, he said, Salalah I assume that profit is contingent upon liability, meaning the possibility of loss, the possibility of loss, there has to be something in it. So there's no concept in Islam of making money off of your money solely off of your money because that just leads to perpetual distribution amongst the rich the rich get richer, the poor get more buried in their debts. So the poor get get poor, the rich get richer and

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Allah subhana wa tada says, it's one of the mocassins one of the goals of the way we treat money in Islam, that, that does not happen. Okay. I lost friends I also mentioned just it's really interesting back to how we live within our individual means. It's really interesting that right after the verse of Riba right after the verses of usury law says, Now you Kelly, for La nevsun illa. Allah does not burden a soul beyond that scope. Allah does not burden a soul beyond its scope. That has many connotations, the first of them is obviously,

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you know, having the responsibility to your religious obligations, that Allah does not burden us with our religious obligations more than what we can bear, that Islam is reasonable that our obligations are within our capacity. When they are not for some reason, then there's a relaxation of the obligation or the prohibition, whatever it may be. But if you think about that in a deeper sense, as well, that Allah subhana wa tada

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not put us in circumstances that we cannot there and we incur upon ourselves burdens by faulty expectations or faulty practices. So why does a person feel compelled to keep on jumping into Riba we transactions and two interest bearing transactions and finding a convenient fatwah okay to do so you are incurring hardship upon yourself. Now when it comes to this,

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and I want to say this, I have lectures online that are a lot more detailed about what it is and what it was not in the categorizations. And I'm not going to do that in this lecture because I want to approach it from the social justice perspective. So just search my name and search a little bit and there are other scholars that have lectures on that as well that go through the different categorizations and go through what are interest bearing transactions and things of that sort. I want to focus on it, in the spirit of what we have been talking about. When it comes to the sin of Riba. the sin of Riba it is by far the most underestimated of the seven destructive Sins of the

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mobile pot.

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Xena is very obvious adultery and murder and you know stealing and you think about these types of sins and you think horrible, okay, but the Prophet slice Allah mentions that one did have a penny of interest is more grievous in the sight of Allah subhanaw taala, than adultery with a family member than incest.

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So if someone sees that someone's engaging a robot or someone's engaged, no big deal, but the way we son Zina, or adultery or murder or the other or alcohol, these other prohibitions, right, there's a problem here. And we have to ask ourselves, why are some sins normalized to us and others not? And don't claim that it's a snob? Why are some sins more disgusting to us and important to us than not? Why would why would Reba be worse than Xena? Why would river be worse than adultery, and amendment Above all, we are human less on a societal level. He said, when the economy collapses when the poor become poorer, and the rich become richer. It's amazing insight. By the way, he said, the rich

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become more prone to Zina and alcohol and corruption and less and the poor become more likely to dwell in their sorrow in those very same sense. not interesting, the rich, indulgent morpha heisha the poor indulgent warfare factories are the shameless sins, the rich because of access the poor because of sorrow and depression. So they're likely to find their, you know, their escape, you know, in that brown paper bag, the cheap alcohol in the brown paper bag, right, whereas the rich are likely to find their joy in, you know, an expensive bottle of vodka. But he said that the collapse of or the inequity that rubber causes forces people into those directions anyway. So somehow he I

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thought that was a very powerful way to address this, that it pushes people in the direction of all of those sins. He also said, because people don't take it about are some of the scars mentioned, they don't take it seriously. They don't take it as seriously as we just mentioned, which is very obvious to us. And also the scholars mentioned because the Rebbe

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in or hurts and harms at a much greater scope than the other sense. So liberal causes more societal harm than those other sins that are likely to really just shame a person's self, you're contributing to a system that continues to impoverish and continues to lead people to a very, to a very bad place. The last printout also mentions if you look towards the end of the sequence, if you look at the end of the second chapter of the order, and there's a verse of charity, a verse of Riba, a verse of charity, a verse of liberty, a verse of charity, a verse of Riba.

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So Allah is drawing a contrast between people who spend in charity and people who deplete others for the practice of usury. It's interesting. So I mentioned alladhina Yoon, Fiona Amano, Sylvan milania those who spend from their money in you know, in private and in public day and night lahoma Jerome and Robbie him, they have their reward with a lot. They're not seeking a reward in this world. They have the reward with a loss of hundreds out of the whole family home, they're not going to be afraid they're not going to grieve in the hereafter. Right? So Allah is praising these people. The next verse is the verse about Riba as a verse about people that engage in usery. Why is that? Why is that

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society? If people do what they're supposed to do with their charity,

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then those who would typically have to resort to taking or I'm sorry, paying interest don't have to do so.

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If the system is functioning properly, where a person that cannot afford education,

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has people that are spending on them anyway.

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Okay, where the system is

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Built in a way to take care of those who would typically need to resort to an unfavorable contract,

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then you don't have to resort to River. So las panatela is talking about it from a societal perspective, this is what happens. You also have on the individual level when people embrace that they that you know that when people have money, they view it as a burden.

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This is a test from Allah subhanaw taala. What do I need to do with this money, so the gift from the money rather than the greedy person who we talked about last week, who just keeps trying to grow their portfolio, the person who gets and who feels that sense of of, of debt to a lump, we'll spend day and night privately and publicly. And so the burden on the burden is on the rich to give not on the poor to squirm

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right and that's really what we see to the burden is on the rich to give they're the ones that are afraid they're the ones that are out there trying to look for the poor to give to that society was created with the prophets lie Selim his message it happened it lasted for dynasties, right? I mean, it lost that was a situation that that did come about in certain Muslim societies, the rich feel the burden, not the poor, and that's something that Allah subhanho Tana creates through this and then in the last verses of Al Baqarah you know, you have a few verses so I'll talk about I'll come back to this one towards the end inshallah Allah denio coluna ribba nyako monaka electromyogr comilla data

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harbottle shape on minimus was inside gives this example of the person or says that the one who consumes Riba, the one who consumes usury will not stand on the Day of Judgment except like the standing of a person being beaten by his devil leading him to insanity. Then the next verse mentions

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that are four verses later rather Lost Planet Allah mentions further than will be heard of him in Allah He will surely that if you don't give this up, then be ready prepared for a battle with Alon His Messenger Salah Larissa, this is what happened to the 11. Who said, he said on the Day of Judgment, the only one that would stand in this state, being beaten literally to a point of insanity every time he stands up, as this person, he said, not even the disbeliever would be treated this way, or anyone treated this way. This is a person who deals and rebut, standing up and being beaten into insanity. And then after he's been he's been beaten into insanity. He's told take your weapons

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and prepare for war with your Lord and with the messenger of a loss of license. Can you imagine that state being told, the war now starts between you and Allah and the messenger, sallAllahu wasallam a loss? Allah protect us from being in that state. So there's the individual then there is again, em hafele la horiba yoruba socket, Allah destroys Riba and Allah subhana wa, tada increases charity, a system can survive without river, a system cannot survive with river,

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the global economic collapses, look at what the cause is because we're constantly building upon this bubble, and then eventually the bubble pops. Right? Because it's imaginary money. It's not really there. So a system that is laced with rebar is a system that's meant to fail over and over and over again, it's a system that is that that will lead to bitterness, and that will lead to poverty. And that leads to great economic disparity and all types of things. And last time, tensions yam hakalau River was planted destroys rubber while you're in the southern part. So then how do we view loans them?

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How does Islam view loans as a whole? how, you know, what's the point of giving a loan then? Or how does the whole system of loans work if we don't believe in interest? Well, first and foremost, loans in Islam do not come under business transactions, they come under charity.

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So the way Islam conceived of loans, how Islam viewed the concept of God was not a means of making money, but a means of charity for the one that could not permanently release money. So if you can't give away your money, then at least London's the concept of coddle and there is a very beautiful saying from the love No model, the Allahu taala and

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where he said that there are three types of loans. He said, there's a loan which you lend by which you desire, the pleasure of Allah subhanaw taala. And so you gain the pleasure of Allah. There's a loan that you don't have Santa, right? You give a loan, desiring the pleasure of Allah subhanaw taala. And so you gain the pleasure of Allah. And he said, then there is a loan that you lend, desiring the pleasure of your companion and you gain the pleasure of your companion.

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Yes, people will like you if you loan the money.

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Okay? People that don't like your personality will suddenly find you tolerable, and you'll be their best friend because they know that you'll always bail them out. So you give

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Money for the pleasure of your companion and you find the pleasure of your companion. Then he said, The third type of loan is a loan by which you take that which is impure by that which is pure. And he said, that is usury. That is the river. So the entire spirit of trying to benefit financially from the money that you give to someone else, the loan that you give is a foreign concept and it's not in and of itself. It's deliberate. And, you know, there's there's, there's an incident that took place in Rahmani r Rahim Allah, where he landed someone money. And the men hadn't paid him back for some time. And he was, you know, he was he was on a journey. So he took a break, and he was basking

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in the shade of that man's tree, the tree was coming over the fence. And so he was basking in the state of that tree, then he realized he loaned that man money. And he feared that that was about because I was extra upon the money that he loaned the man

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that mean, basking in the shade of his tree might be extra, it might be a benefit that I attained through that loan. So anything that I would benefit through that loan is not in the spirit of a snap. Now, it's very difficult when you think about now because loans entirely function within the spectrum of benefit and financial, it is a business. The lending business is a business. So it's a different subject altogether. Now, you might think to yourself, what is Islam? Like, exclusive in this? Why is Islam so unique in this? Why does Islam see labor, so evil? Guess what, all the Abrahamic faiths at one time, so I did that as a great evil in Judaism, and Ezekiel 2224. It says,

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If thou lend money to any of my people, even to the poor with thee, thou shall not be to him as a creditor, neither shall ye lay upon him interest. And if thy brother be poor, and his means fail with him, take no interest of him or increased but fear your Lord, that your brother may live with you. Thou shall not give him the money upon interest, nor take from him any increase that's in Leviticus, another verse, Deuteronomy, Thou shall not lend upon interest to your brother interest of money, interest of anything that is lent upon interest on to a foreigner is where the loophole is on to a foreigner, thou may thou may lend upon interest, but on to the brother, Thou shall not lend

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upon interest, that the Lord, your God may bless you in all that, that he puts in your hand. So what does that show you the prohibition, in Deuteronomy basically says that this applies not to the Gentiles, but only within the community of the Israelites. So that's how it was justified the first loophole, that interest was looked at, not as something that could be done amongst the community of Israelites, but it could only be dealt with the foreigner. Now, what does that mean that even within that conception, the spirit of brotherhood is supposed to be in your transactions, but of course, in that situation, it's amongst the community of Israelites. And, you know, some of the older scholars,

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the old scholars of the Old Testament, they,

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they reasoned with this and they said that, well, you know, look, this doesn't mean only that you can do Riba with the Gentiles. This just means that especially not within there's a stress within. And some of them said no, it's amongst amongst the Israelites, there is no use of Riba. It's a violation. But at the same time,

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you know, if you're going to deal with a foreigner or someone outside of the community, then you can deal with Reba. Also, in the Old Testament, or in the I'm sorry, in the Talmud, it says that it is not only tell me if this sounds familiar.

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It is not only the creditor who takes interest who is violating the prohibition, but also the debtor who agrees to pay interest, the guarantee who guarantees the debt that bears interest, the witnesses who attest to the creation of an interest bearing debt, and even the scribe who writes out the deed.

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What does that sound like?

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a hadith that we're about to come to, by the way.

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Okay. So, yes, in Judaism, it was prohibited, but it was prohibited amongst the community of Israelites. Christianity took a stricter approach to interest and in the Catholic Church, it was prohibited Riba was prohibited until the year 1832. Why did the Catholics buckle? Why did the church buckle and finally allow for the use of what used to be one of the greatest abominations in Christendom, so it was a major sin for Christians as well.

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In the and this is a longer discussion but during the Protestant Reformation, they go back to the Protestant Reformation in the 1600s. JOHN Calvin was the first to propose a reinterpretation of the verses of labor. When the Protestant Reformation opened that door, the church felt pressure. So eventually the church buckled

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And remove the prohibition on reverse. So it's not like the Muslims are alone in this.

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Alright, this is something that exists within Judaism to an extent and it exists within Christianity as well. Now, at the same time you read about the old philosophers and I don't want to take too much time on this, but the idea of making money off of money was looked at as unethical.

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It was looked at as unjust. So Martin Luther said, you cannot make money just with money. Aristotle said, the most hated source and with the greatest reason is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself and not from the natural object of it, for money was intended to be used in exchange, but not to increase at interest. And he said, and this term interest took us which means the birth of money for money is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parents.

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Wherefore of all modes of getting wealth, this is the most unnatural of them all. So even old philosophy, you know, when we think about the philosophers, they looked at Riba as a lowly transaction, you think about where we are now where everything functions off of river. And you think about where we've come from, both from the Abrahamic heritage, as well as secular heritage of philosophy, usury was looked down upon because of what it creates, which is essentially economic slavery.

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The end of the day creates economic slavery. People get buried in debt and it becomes a tool for the elite to further impoverish the poor. One thing that I love about the profits license farewell speech, when he abolished deliver the first Riba he abolished and he said it, does anyone know of who

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abus is uncle.

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So the first the only person he named was his uncle. His uncle was a rich man and lastly a lot of time and he was a rich man. There's a story to that. The prophets lie Selim told him in the Battle of bed that when he was a captive, made, that a lost parents I will bless his wealth if he was being honest about what he was ransoming himself with.

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And the last panel which Adam mentioned in the Quran, as well. So Ibis became really rich after that he was blessed in his transactions. So you have a lot of money and a lot of interest bearing transactions. The prophets lie Selim said and hydrated were there in the farewell hedge. He said, The first Remember, the first user I am abolishing is the river of my family that above us

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annaleigh like, this is not the elite, putting down the poor? I'm starting with myself no exceptions for the family of Russell alaris. I'm the only person he named was a boss, he could have said, Hey, the Rebbe that you already agree to, and then we'll abolish it. The first he said from now the only thing that remains is the capital gains is the is what amount was given itself. Note about it's all gone as of right now. And he started with his family. And he his thought was, linguistically the word ribeye means increase. The words a cow also means increased but the words that count means increase with purification, and the Prophet slice that I mentioned, and Hadith from when Masuda de

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la notes, an authentic hadith, he said, there is no person who deals in Libya, meaning to increase their wealth, except that he will end up with Kyla with a little bit of wealth, meaning Allah subhanaw taala will actually deplete his wealth as a result of his increasing in that well, now did the prophets lie Selim understand that there would come a time where labor spreads, of course, all major sins spread and all of these things take over. And he mentioned some of lahardee with some that there would come a time that even a person who does not consume Riba, some of its vapor or its dust will reach the Hobart it will touch him somehow, even if you try to stay away from it, somehow,

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you're going to be engaged in it. If you have a bank account, you're engaged in it, even if you don't, you know, even if you don't want to, but your engagement, you have a credit card, you're engaged in it to some capacity, you're always somehow going to be touched by that system. However, it becomes a point that we don't knowingly engage ourselves and live that in any way. So a few things to look at, in this regard. And I know I'm running out of time somehow. So I'm actually skipping a lot of notes. Again, if you go online and search my name within about you'll find some more detailed lectures on it. There's also a great book by Mufti Taqi earnest money is a very good

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primer on Islamic Finance and he kind of goes through the categorizations of Riba and what they are. So the prophets lie Selim he cursed. He said that a lot curses.

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The one who consumes the river, the one who gives it, the one who witnesses over it, and the one who writes down the transaction. Well, homefield wasn't the seller. And they are all equal in the sin.

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Okay, sounds very familiar, right? It's, it's in congruence with what we

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I've already

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you know spoken about it's an agreement what we've already spoken about, right? So the one who consumes it, the one who gives it, the one who witnesses it, and the one who writes it down. All of them are sinful in that capacity, and all of them are equal in the sight of Allah subhanaw taala. And this takes away this idea because people have you know, people downplay, people downplay more than more so than taking it over people downplay penguin above.

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All right, paying ribbon, there are very few Muslims who would be shameful enough to actually take it over.

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Right? But to pay it, because you're forced in a situation where you know, the shamelessness of taking it is one thing, but to pay it, well, I've got this, well, I've got this, well, I've got this, okay. So the profit slice, and I'm assuming they are all equal in sin, even those that are affected by mutual consent. Why? Because Allah subhanho wa Taala demands of us that we see beyond short sighted, short sighted needs. But we look at the long term.

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We don't just want to become products of our society and simply survive, we want to better our society so that it can collectively thrive. So it's got to get better as a whole. So when people say, Well, you know, if you look at the federalism, the 1990s, about buying a house on a conventional mortgage,

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it's a necessity. Don't house how much of a necessity isn't and keep pushing, pushing, pushing scholars overseas to give you the facts? Well, first, the photo was that, look, if you got like six, seven kids and no one's leasing to at a decent price, yes, it's a necessity for you, then it became well to necessity to own one house.

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All right, it's a necessity.

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What happens is that we do not make an effort than to create real Islamic alternatives, if everyone just gives into the

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will say, I found an excuse, and they give into it as Muslims, we are tasked not just with finding a way out for ourselves, but with actually trying to create alternatives. And somehow, what are you finding now, the creation of more Islamic alternatives? Yes. How Islamic they are is certainly debatable. And I'm not going to give you a fatwa as to which companies are Islamic, and which are not. You do your research, and you figure it out and shut a lot.

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But the point is that, look, there has been significant development in the last decade. You know why that development is there, because there's some people that still insisted, even with the presence of those fatwas, not to buy houses on conventional mortgages. So if it's not perfect, you know, what, it's not perfect, but some people insist. And it's good that that insistence exists. Because when there is demand, there will be supply. Okay, it's simple economics, if Muslims demand it, people will cater to that eventually. So even have like HSBC and other banks trying to come up with halau alternatives, how halaal not so much, not yet. So other people will get there. But the point

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is, is that as Muslims, it is upon us not to simply give in a continuous charity. All right, Mashallah. I mean, that's student loans, are some people certainly in a position where they're going to have to resort to it. He didn't pay me for that, by the way. All right. free advertising on Facebook Live.

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But no, you know,

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there are some people that might find themselves in a situation where a chef will give them a futz with their situation, because that's what they have to do. But some people are going to insist on not taking interest bearing student loans, and not giving in, and we have to create solutions for them collectively as a community, and let that successful alternative model grow in such a way that it becomes a realistic replacement for society as a whole. And that's when you have the global economic collapse. You know, last, you know, in the last decade, you've had all these articles being written in these different places, even from the Vatican, you know, to economists that are talking

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about how an Islamic model makes more sense how Islamic finance can actually better the way that we do business. And it can actually protect us from many of the economic collapses that we see today. There's something really interesting, the former president of nigeria, he said he commented on the debt crisis of Nigeria, he said, all that we had borrowed up to 1985, or 1986, was around $5 billion, and we've paid about $16 billion. Yet, we are still being told that we owe about 28 billion, that 28 billion came about because of the injustice of the foreign creditors and raising their interest rates. And he said, If you ask me what the worst thing in the world is, I will say

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it's compound interest.

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So interest is based on greed, selfishness. Sure.

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It's not in the spirit of brotherhood and empathy. That is

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talks about loans. Interest creates money that's not actually there, syncs people and nations in adverse circumstances,

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and creates an economy that is always meant to fail. But the richest can absorb that hit every single time it collapses.

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So that top two 3% will always be able to absorb the hits, and everybody else has to pay the price. So it's a major contributor to inflation. It's a major contributor to the destruction of nations. It's a major contributor to trauma and depression in terms of, you know, the the mounting debts that it causes on on people. And, you know, it creates a monopoly in society, It rewards the wealthy and it continues to put the poor in worse situations. So this is something that we find, in many ways, I'm going to end with these two things.

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And somehow, I haven't even touched on excessive speculation, the whole contract of insurance and how that leads to a greater injustices. two things. Number one, why does Allah subhanaw taala describe this person yet to have bottle shape on every time he stands up? It's a devil beats him to insanity.

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Some of the scholars they said because he felt like he was so smart to corner people and to take advantage of their needs. So he will be resurrected, stumbling like a madman who's not smart at all.

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That this person that used to sink people and limber, and consume people in debt and liver, essentially corners people, and puts people in a situation where, you know, they are in complete hysteria, they don't know what to do with themselves. And Allah subhanaw taala, in his perfect justice puts them to resemble a situation like that as well. But then there is this hadith. And this is the Hadith that I'll end with. And it's really,

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and I was reflecting on this with, with with

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Chef, musician. Now he's, you know, you know, in a world where you don't seek justice, so much, sometimes perfect justice is beautiful, even when it's horrifying.

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When you read about it in the books of in the Quran, and the Hadith of the Prophet slicin, on the Prophet sly, some described what he saw

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when he saw the punishment in the grave. And he describes a person who is swimming in blood.

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And every time he swims to the shore of that river, there's a man who collects who has stones and he throws a stone into his mouth, and he sinks in way back into the middle, and then that man swims back. And this keeps on happening where stones are being hurled into his mouth, and he continues to remain in this river of blood.

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The scholar has mentioned that this, the red here represents the hub actually represents the gold that he drowned himself in. And every time he wants to climb out, he's driven back into it, just like he did with the people. Every time they thought they were climbing out of their debt, he sunk them back into it.

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So Subhanallah The same thing is now happening to him where he kept sinking people in debts. So that punishment is actually perfect justice, that that person just as the river creditor tormented others within a band sunk them into debt, they too now face a similar situation, a loss of hundreds out to protect us from taking part in an event in any capacity. May Allah subhanaw taala allow us to, to not only purify ourselves of it, but to demonstrate it as the best approach for society as well to purify our financial systems as well. May Allah subhanaw taala protect us even from its dust and never allow us to be in a vulnerable situation where we have to succumb to it along I mean,

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