Out Of Context – Part 2

Omar Suleiman


Channel: Omar Suleiman


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Episode Notes

The Medina Charter of Coexistence – Omar Suleiman

In Part 2 of the interview with Dallas-based Pastor Mike Baughman, Imam Omar Suleiman tears down some of the most popular misconceptions about Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Is the Quran inherently violent? Does the Quran contradict itself? Does Islam advocate Holy Wars through jihad? Is Islam anti-Semitic?

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Why don't we take a little time to actually tackle some of these perceptions? Right, right and go into some specifics of what it is that sometimes we hear about in mainstream media from politicians or pundits or other folks or just perceptions that that honest, good people have?

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who haven't who haven't heard counter perspectives, right. So there's definitely this this sensibility that sometimes toss around in American culture, that that Islam is a violent religion, yes. Or that Muhammad himself was particularly violent, right? And so what's your response to that? If someone were asking in the Walmart parking lot,

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I bring them to a studio and sit them down and

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know what I would say to a person number one, statistically, that's not true. So that's factually an incorrect statement. So there's actually a recent article that came out which took the verses of violence from the Quran, the Old Testament, the New Testament, so the New Testament and and, and the Quran. I think the Quran is 2.2%, they actually statistically put it out 2.8% in the New Testament, and then 5.3% in the Old Testament, so the Quran is not particularly more violent as a scripture, right?

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But any verse taken out of context, we know that the Old Testament has a context, right? So you're talking about a lot of the Hebrew prophets, you know, King Saul, and Joshua, and even Moses, and so on, so forth. So there's obviously a lot of military context to it when you're talking about some of the old prophets that come up in the Old Testament in the stories. Obviously, the New Testament was written in a context, right? So it was it's a different feel altogether.

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The Quran does not is not particularly more violent, and in fact, as a social experiment, so I was actually invited once to the University of Florida, okay. And if you remember, burn the Quran guy. Yeah. Terry Jones, who had the really cool mustache, right?

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So he protested, he and his group protested my being at the University of Florida. And what I did was, I took a group of Bible verses, but I took them out of context. And I read them and I, and I said that they were verses of the Quran. And people were horrified. But then I said, by the way, these are verses of the Bible. So you guys know, and you know this as a pastor, right? That if we were to just start opening up the Old Testament, the New Testament, Jesus peace, be upon him, his speeches, at Temple, mountain, Jerusalem, and so on, so forth, you're gonna have some serious issues if you don't provide context, if that's what's done to us all the time. And so,

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and there has actually been social experiments on YouTube where people go, and, you know, they took a copy of the ground, but covered it with a copy, or they took a copy of the Bible, but put a cover on it right, and had people read it in the street. And so the Quran is not a more violent scripture, factually speaking, and neither was Mohammed a more violent prophets, right than others that came before him. But to the contrary, his biography is to the opposite of that it actually shows a man that that desired peace that desired a stable situation a secure situation. And it's it's quite telling that the only way to portray Islam as more violence or the Prophet Mohammed as more violent

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peace be upon him is by taking verses out of context by taking some of these erroneous narrations that aren't sure authentic, and then saying this is Islam. Sure. And this is I mean, and that's the work of

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extremists of any

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of any faith tradition. Absolutely. And until we can certainly see that as as a reality.

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Now, one of the terms that gets thrown around a lot and talking about kind of the violence inherent in Islam, is the term jihad. And, and I'm curious, can you explain a little bit more about what that means? And how it applies to just say, you know, Islam in the 21st century? Sure. So the word Jihad and this is really important to point out just off the bat, it does not mean holy war, there's actually no such thing as holy war in Islam. The word Jihad means to strive, it means to struggle. And when you look at the the life of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, we know that the Quran was revealed over 23 years over a span of 23 years. So his prophethood was between the age of 40 to

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63, according to Muslims. So the way that you can automatically dispel any notion that jihad is inherently militaristic or inherently violent is that in Mecca, the early years of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him his life where they were living under persecution. There were various references to jihad in the Quran. So in the Koran, for example, there's a verse, woman had to fit into my yuja enough, see, that whoever strives he strives for himself. This is in Mecca.

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Well, Edina, jaha do phenol and Deanna homeschool and and that those who strive and our path we will guide him to our paths. So the concept of a personal struggle against one's own desires, the lower self, and so on so forth. That was the original context of jihad. And then as far as struggling against persecution, it's very interesting because

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essentially what the Muslims did in Mecca as they lived under persecution, their their public displays of faith were nonviolent protests. So when they would go out there, and they would read the Koran publicly, they'd get beaten for it. And so Allah says, In the Quran, it says, hidden behind Jihad and Kabira. That's a strive against them with the poor and with a great jihad. So they would go out and they would read the Koran pray in front of the cabin Mecca, and they would be assaulted for that. So the the original mentions of jihad were not violence. Right? Now, there is a military aspect of jihad, which is to struggle against oppression, to struggle against injustice, to struggle

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against those who try to fight you, and so on so forth. But it's not. jihad is not inherently that so there's an aspect of jihad, certainly that's militaristic, that's to fight to defend, and so on, so forth. But the original definition of jihad or the original context of it was indeed a spiritual struggle against one's own self.

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So another thing from the the Quran that that I've heard brought up in a couple different circles is something that seems sometimes contradictory, right? So there are parts of the Quran that say things like, there's no compulsion in religion, right? Which, which seems to be very, you know, kind of accepting and encouraging people to, to develop their own path, or, you know, in my own tradition, there's a line to pursue your own salvation with fear and trembling. You know, that kind of notion. But there are other verses that seem to indicate that people should be should be fought until they believe that they might endure persecution until they come to that place of belief. And so how do

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you how do you balance those, those two voices that are there? So as I mentioned, I think this is really important for any serious student of Islam and the poor and to really understand we have detailed sources and detailed context as to when verses were revealed. So we know exactly when each surah each chapter of the Quran was revealed over 23 years. Now, the the argument of someone who's anti Islam would be that,

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that Muhammad peace be upon him just threw in the verses when he found them convenient, because obviously, if you don't believe that it's a divine religion. The Mohammed is the author of the Quran to Muslims, Allah is the God himself as the author of the Quran. The way that we studied is we look over these 23 years. So we find that between the age of 40 and 63,

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you have various examples, you have the first period, the first phase, which are which are Muslims living under persecution, so a minority being persecuted by a hostile hostile majority. Yeah, then you have some Muslims that fled that persecution, and they went to Abyssinia to a Christian land because the Muslims allied themselves with the Christians, and a Christian negus, who was the the ruler of Amazonia adjust Christian King took in those Muslims that fled. So you had a minority living with a friendly majority. So they were able to practice their faith without being persecuted. Then you have Medina, where the Prophet peace be upon him, flees from Mecca, 13 years later, with a

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group of his followers literally run for their lives, and they're accepted in Medina, as, as the ruling class. So overnight, he goes from fugitive to Governor. Yeah, and now you have a ruling, you know, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them as a ruler of a city, and as an authority. So you have a minority or a majority of the Muslims in Medina, but they do have a hostile minority minority, they do have some that weren't accepting of their new role. And then you have absolute domination, the last period of the life of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him where he's practically the king of Arabia, right? So you have all these different contexts, which are very different political

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contexts. So the so the number one, the Quran was quite consistent, and being peaceful, and throughout these contexts, and if you read these verses, and you take in consideration when, when they were revealed in accordance with the political situation of the Muslims, they don't become that bad at all. So you study that and, and then you realize that again, the the original connotations of jihad, the original candidate connotations of a struggle of striving,

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you know, came when they were living under persecution, and it did not manifest itself into them becoming an insurgent group or, you know, attacking people right and left so that they could get themselves out of that situation. So when you study in that way, here's what you find in Mecca. The verse that was

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revealed as a response to the frustration of many of the Muslims to not take up arms because they're getting persecuted for years and years, and they're like, Are we going to respond? Is this ever going to get any better? We're getting whipped here, we're getting cold dumped on our backs, you know, we're being killed, are we going to respond to this? So God reveals a verse that says it's for our ability here, I said, respond to that which is evil with that which is better. And you will find that your enemies will become your closest friends. And after that, one of the greatest companions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him becomes Muslim, and that's all marble hop. So that was

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the first time they were able to publicly proclaim their faith. Right. So that came in Mecca. When they moved to Medina, the first verse that's revealed now as the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is are one of the first verses as he's now in charge of a city is there's no compulsion in religion. So there is no compulsion religion was actually revealed in Medina when he's in charge of a city to show that there's religious tolerance for the different groups that are living there and practicing their religion. And we even find that when he was attacked, when he was insulted when people you know, slandered him and said things about his marriage and so on, so forth. There's a verse that's

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revealed later on in Medina, which is what I told her carefully, you know, when when a Filipino which means don't follow, don't respond to the, to the disbelievers and hypocrites and ignore their insults whatsoever can Allah and trust your Lord? So the consistency that we find once we study the poor and chronologically dispels a lot in and of itself,

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but there is this movement or at least a perception of a movement there that, you know, as, as Mohammed comes into power? Right? Right, that then there is maybe greater room of and whether it was for political situations of the day or not that that there was more, I guess, openness to violence and violent acts taking place. And

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there's this quote from Colonel Allen West where he said, you know, something happened to Muhammad, in Medina, right. There's this transition. And so now we live in a world where there certainly are Muslim nations were there. And so should that then

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make folks nervous? There are nations where Muslims are in power, and that maybe there's this acceptable change at that point? Or is that a misreading? How do we so that's the first thing again, so chronic, Pope Benedict actually got into a lot of trouble with the Muslim world, you know, when he quoted a medieval text, okay, in which it was suggested that the verse note there's no compulsion in religion. That verse was revealed in Mecca, when when they were living under persecution, so I was like, leave us alone, guys, there's no compulsion, let everyone practice their religion. Then when he came to Medina, then it was like, kill them wherever you find them. Right. But again,

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historically, that's not true, because the largest chapter of the Quran, which is sort of bacala, the chapter of the cow which talks about the story of Moses, peace be upon them, and the calf that was revealed in Medina, so it's after Mohammed was in a situation of authority. And so he actually one of the first things he did in Medina was he established what's known as the Medina charter. And the Medina charter, according to many historians, is the first constitution in the world, the first example of a state constitution in the world, where he, you know, he establishes the rights of the Jewish population that's living in Medina, they, they have mutual benefits, so they will defend

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because now he's acting as a prophet and as a statesman. Yeah, they will defend the borders of the city. So if if they are attacked, if the Jewish population is attacked, then the Muslims have to come to their defense, if the Muslim population is attacked, the Jewish population has to come to their defense. The Jews were exempted from participating in the Muslims religious wars. So if there was a religious war, they were exempted. So it's a very nuanced charter, but a very accepting and tolerant one. And that was primarily the other religious group that existed in Medina at the time was a Jewish population. So there weren't Christians, many Christians at that time at all. in

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Medina, just a few here, here and there. So religious tolerance actually came with his authority, with his power. I think it's worth taking, like a moment and owning the reality that

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understanding religion is complicated.

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It's not It's not easy. I mean, like, you know, when you start going into all the layers of history and things like that, it's challenging to really get a grasp of what a faith intends and and how it should best be lived out. And I certainly encountered that in in the church as well. And you know, the ways that Christians wrote before anybody was empowered before when Constantine the Emperor, you know, converts is very different to Christianity post Constantine. So so I do get a sense for that. I think for the moment owning for you never

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whoever's watching and for the audience Hear that?

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These things are complicated. Absolutely. And and I think one of the things that makes us all difficult is that it's very easy for a politician to give a 10 word answer. Yeah. That is somehow appealing to, you know, a large group of people because they look at Saudi Arabia. Right, right. Right. Just throw a statement like that. And, and then, yeah, I've heard a thing or two about Saudi Arabia, you know, people, people can easily latch on to that. And I know what the largest Muslim country in the world is. Indonesia, Indonesia, and they've had it's not an Arab country. They had a female president before we had a female president, are we I'm not I'm not gonna say anything about

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the current current election cycle. I'm not gonna make a statement about who I'm supporting.

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But as soon as you get endorsed anybody, yeah. So so you know, it's a very moderate country. It's a very open country. So unfortunately, what ends up happening is that people will say, Well, look at Saudi Arabia, look at Afghanistan. So in Saudi Arabia, women can't drive there is nothing in Islam that says that women can drive right and so well, that we can there was a lot about the cars in the Quran. Yeah, not not really, you know, they.

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But But the idea of, hey, they used to ride camels, you know, it's the same.

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Yeah, but the idea that we should be held accountable for, for every country that that portrays itself to be a Muslim country. Right. And that is the representation of what what Muhammad peace be upon him what his governorship look like, 1400 years ago, that's just ridiculous. Yeah. Iran claims to be an Islamic Republic as well. So why don't Saudi Arabia and Iran, if that's the case, if they're both Islamic, Republic's and so on, so forth, so everyone, you know, it, there are interpretations, they are obviously rigid, and there are things there that some things that that would be in accordance with the Koran and with the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed, some that

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wouldn't. But that's certainly not the representation, there is no modern day representation of what the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him what his his state would have looked like what had been to look like 1400 years ago,

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simply because I've heard a couple of things about this. And it seems to come up. One more thing on kind of the the question of Medina and things is founded there. You know, I have heard people make reference to

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Muhammad authorizing, you know, the slaughter or killing a great number of Jews in the city of Medina, 700 or more. And

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so, and that probably plays into some perceptions that influence debates around Israel and Palestine and a lot of other questions. And so I'm curious if you can offer any more insight into into that there's a perception that Islam is an inherently anti semitic religion, right? It's inherently anti Jewish that Muslims and Jews have been at war, since since Islam came about, but actually, historically speaking, Muslims and Jews have not had bad relations as to religious groups. In fact, we find under Ottoman rule, we find it when when Omar went to Jerusalem when Palestine, or Jerusalem came under particularly Jerusalem came under Muslim rule that the Jewish population was able to

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worship freely and so on, so forth. And so the perception that Muslims and Jews have always been at war is actually not true at all. Even with the crusades, the story you know, the history of the crusades, right. I mean, Muslims and Jews actually came together in that time, the Spanish Inquisition and so on, so forth. So many times it was it was actually Christians versus Muslims and Jews, right.

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That's happened.

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But so politics is one thing, right? So when you look at the time of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. There's this perception which you just referenced. Did he just kill all the Jews off? Absolutely not. There's one incident

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that took place, which was the

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Benny hora, which was what's known as the tribe of any called Eva, right where one tribe one Jewish tribe,

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was accused of committing treason, because Muslims were surrounded from outside.

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by outside forces, the Meccans gathered a bunch of forces, they descended upon Medina. And in Medina, they built a trench to protect themselves. So this one tribe at that time, there was a lot of there were a lot of tribes that were sort of making their alliances. So one tribe cooperated with the Meccans, to attack from inside. And so they were dealt with, by the law, the law of Deuteronomy, actually so which was that the men would be killed and the women and the children would be taken as prisoners as captives. That was that judgment was actually made by an arbitrator that was chosen by the name of psilocybin while he was an ally to that Jewish tribe and so

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They were they were told to choose their arbitrator and they chose that arbitrator, he made the judgment and that took place. Now regardless, now, this incident goes many ways, there are many different things that are derived from this incident by people, it depends how you want to spin it, you could spin it. If you're anti semitic, you could spin it and say those, you know, the Jews always betrayed the Muslims. And you'll hear that sort of rhetoric, certainly in inflammatory rhetoric, that it's always the Jews betraying the Muslims, and they could never be trusted, and so on so forth. You hear it on the other side that Mohammed went after the Jews, and killed all the

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Jews and so on, so forth. But there's a great problem with that narrative that, at the very least, we could agree upon. Now, as a Muslim, as someone who studied the biography of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them and everything that went into that incident. Obviously, I have a perspective on it sure, right, that that that particular tribe of any quarter either did indeed commit treason, and they were dealt with in accordance with Jewish law. Okay. But even if you don't believe that, even if you believe that there is more to it, and even if you believe that there is another side to it, and so on, so forth, to portray that as the norm of Muslim Jewish Relations at the time of Muhammad

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is very disingenuous, because Jews did continue to live in Medina. And they did continue to have relationships with the Muslims. And there it wasn't always tense. In fact, we find that the neighbor of Muhammad, peace be upon him was actually a Jewish family. And when the boy became sick, when the young boy became sick, he wouldn't he visited that boy, there's a very one of my favorite narrations where he was sitting in. And a young Jewish man brought him a glass of water. And he said to him, may God beautify your face, Hassan Allahu wa, Chuck, may God beautify your face. And when he said that to him, now on us, who's the narrator of this incidence, you know, who was personally watching

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this whole thing take place, he said that that young man, never he never had a gray hair, after the prophet may draw out for him, or supplicated. For him, he made a prayer for him. So there are positive incidents there. In fact, even when the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him passed away, he had dealings with the Jewish population in Medina. So he had debts, he had loans, and so on, so forth. And he purposely tried to maintain a relationship with the Jews of Medina to keep that to keep that going, whether it was business or debts, or so on, so forth. You also had some rabbis that accepted Islam, prominent rabbis that accepted Islam. And so you had some that accepted Islam, some

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that didn't accept Islam, some that had good relationships with the Muslim some that had a very bad relationship, obviously, but to portray to take one incident, where a tribe was was killed.

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Whether you believe it was treason or not,

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and to portray that, as the normative relationship between Muhammad and the Jews, is actually not true at all. And then obviously, Islamic history that which follows afterwards. You know, many Jewish historians would would say that, under Muslim rule, especially under Ottoman rule, that that the Jewish population was able to thrive and able to practice and so on, so forth. So Muslims and Jews have not always been at war. Now, obviously, in our time, the Palestine Israel skews everything, right, we tend to view history now through that lens as if this has always been going on. You know, and that's, that's less than 100 years old, that conflict is less than 100 years old.

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That's a very recent conflict between Muslims and Jews, right. So we should not look at history through that lens.

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Let's talk about some other things that are,

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you know, certainly come up and have come up in recent history of places of conflict.

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One of the things that that we've seen is violence on the part of extremists in response to depictions of the Prophet Mohammed, in regards to you know, I'm thinking about the attacks that took place in Paris following the publications in Charlie Hebdo. And then even more recently, here in Garland, which is not far from where we are in Dallas right now.

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violent attack that took place in response to a situation where Prophet Muhammad was displayed. And

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so where, where does that come from? Where does this

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those violent responses? Yeah, where do they come from? Is that is that something that you feel compelled by what? What's your take? And in the midst of that, sure, I mean, look when these things happen, so particularly first and foremost, just to clarify something here that

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here in garland for example, there are 250,000 Muslims about a quarter million Muslims that live in the greater Dallas area, not a single Muslim took it upon themselves to respond in any way to Pamela Geller as hate speech and to the to the Oregon it is a hate group. they've actually been classed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. they they they literally are a traveling circus where they go around in different cities and try to provoke the community to get some

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Some sort of response out of them, because that's what they that's what they feed on. They feed on the negative attention and on the responses and so on and so forth. So as a Muslim community here in Dallas, we chose to ignore it altogether. We weren't going to protest, we weren't going to respond. They sent protesters to the mosques, to harass the worshippers at the mosques that actually yell things at the congregants during the Friday prayers about Muhammad peace be upon just terrible things, trying to get a response trying to get some sort of reaction. We ignore them altogether. It took two guys driving down from Phoenix. Right. And if you think about that, you have a group of

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people that travel around literally like a circus, alright, and hold these events. And they're not from garlin, and you had these two guys that drove down from Phoenix, right to shoot up that event who were thankfully killed before they could inflict any damage when they were killed. You know, what they did inside? They, they clapped, and they started to sing patriotic songs. They were happy they got a response, they were pleased to get a response because that's exactly what they feed off of. She immediately started tweeting out Pamela go started tweeting out, the war has started, the war has begun, right? This is exactly what they wanted. And it was funny because the garland mayor

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was upset because they had to provide hotel rooms for all these people, because none of them were from were from, you know, from here. So this is this all took place outside. So it's it's it's very wrong to portray the response of a few people as the response of the Muslim community as a whole right?

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Do we get offended when the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them is portrayed in a certain way? Absolutely. It's offensive to us. It's just as offensive as if Jesus peace be upon him was portrayed in a very, in a negative way to a Christian or someone who loves Jesus peace be upon them. So it's very offensive. And we we prohibit as Muslims, it's prohibited in our religion to portray the profits as a whole. Okay, so any profits? Actually, we the portrayal of profits is something that's strictly forbidden in Islam.

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So when that happens, what do we do? Well, we educate people, we educate people about what that is. So we have a right just as you have freedom of speech to portray the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them in an ugly way. We have the right to say that your speech is hateful and ugly. That's also part of freedom of speech. And so yes, we will speak out against it. We don't believe that it's right to incite people. Obviously, there are different dynamics in third world countries. And some countries when you insult people, they take to the streets, and they break windows and kill police officers as Muslim countries and non Muslim countries. That's just the way things work over there. Because

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there's no concept of nonviolent protests and things of that sort. There's also a notion overseas in different parts of the world, that government owns media, because that's the way things work over there. So when they see things come out in the media, you know, what the first thing they write is, why didn't Obama stop it? It doesn't work that way over here, right. So this concept of free press doesn't resonate with people overseas, right. And there are a lot of other nuances that are not taken into consideration. So for example, France, the mistreatment of North African immigrants, the racial discrimination that they've faced for years and years and years over there, in France, they

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live in the poorest neighborhoods. So there's already an animosity between the French people and between the Moroccan and Algerian populations, and so on, so forth, all that is just thrown out the window, because hey, look, they killed in the name of Islam, they killed in the name of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and so everything else is lost. And that's such an unfair representation of the community for us to be held to that,

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to literally a few lunatics for the entire response of a quarter million people to be thrown out. I was literally, I remember when the garland shooting happened. I was literally playing football, my kids throwing a football with my kids having fun in the back. We're having a barbecue. I believe it was a Sunday. Right? And, and we're just like, come on, like, we work so hard as a community to completely ignore this lady and not give her any of the attention that you want. Next thing, you know, she was on Fox News, CNN, you know, all these national news outlets. He was literally just, you know, loving the attention that she was getting. So So those attacks in Europe, and it was a

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major setback. Yeah.

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Contrary to the way you understand our response to the VAT, which is offensive. Yeah, and it's not, it's not wise to do something like that, to keep on poking at people's sensitivities and to keep on offending people like that. It's not wise. I mean, no one would take a picture of Martin Luther King Jr. and, you know, do stuff to it, and then take it to the African American community and then poke at them with it. That's a that's an icon. That's a beloved man. Right? So even if it's a religious, whether it's a religious figure or a political figure, that's a beloved person. So why poke at, you know, at people with those sensitivities. And the other side, by the way of that, is that, you know,

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the radical, the radicalizing element of this, they say, Well, this is the response to those who insult the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them.

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You've got the you've got the islamophobes. And you've got the the the crazy extremists and they're both saying the same thing. We're saying, Hey, you know, this is the way it's supposed to be, this is what they're ordered to do. Now, number one, Islam doesn't promote vigilantism. Number two, this was not the response of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them to insults when he himself was insulted.

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He didn't used to do that. That wasn't the way that he would deal with it. There are incidents and they're portrayed as normative. Right. So they're they're incidents that are,

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you know, where people there's a particular poet, for example, that was that was killed cabinet and a chef and you know, the the islamophobe narrative and the extreme narrative is that is that this was a man that insulted the Prophet Mohammed, and so the Prophet peace be upon him had him killed. But at the end of the day, this man was a warmonger. He wasn't it wasn't because of his poetry that he was killed. He was a war monger, he was actively trying to kill innocent people from the Muslim population.

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We find many other incidents where the Prophet peace be upon him was insulted himself in his face, and he did nothing about it. He forgave, he let it go,

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is one of his most famous companions is a man by the name of Abu huraira, the father of the cat, he used to have a kitten so he was known as the father of the cat. And when he became Muslim, in Medina, once again the Prophet peace be upon him is an authority. And he comes in he said, You know, when I converted to Islam, I told my mom and she just started insulting you and cursing you and so on so forth. The Prophet peace be upon him. He didn't say go home and take her out. He prayed for her. And by the time he went home, he found that her heart she had a change of heart and she accepted Islam.

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There's there are many stories there's a story of one time where the Prophet peace be upon him was sleeping under a tree in Medina and a man grabbed his sword and stood on top of unsaid who will protect you from me who's gonna stop me from killing you? And he said, God,

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and the man was so shaken by that he dropped the sword. So he picked up the sword of the Prophet Mohammed picked up the sword, he said, Who's gonna stop me from killing you? And he said, he said, Be generous, you know, don't, don't hurt me and so on so forth. He forgave him he let him go. So if the Prophet peace be upon him, if this was not normative, Islamic law, I'm going to keep using the word normative because you can find incidents and you can misconstrue them and you can you can portray them to be normative Islamic law and the normative response of the Prophet peace be upon him to insults if that's how he responded to insults. Who are we to kill in his name? Because he's been

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insulted. He'd be more offended by that than by the people insulting him.