ITV Uncut Interview On Gender Wars and Andrew Tate
Channel: Mohammed Hijab
File Size: 45.97MB
Episode Transcript ©
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So if you can start just give us your full name and kind of your role or self describe role. I know you're a YouTuber, but anything else that adds on to that as well. So my name is Muhammad hijab. And in addition to being a YouTuber, as you've mentioned, I also do like lecturing.
So I do that in our own institute in the UK in London called the Sapiens Institute. And also in various other places. For instance, I'm affiliated to the university in America called Mischka University, which I'm also doing part time lecturing for. So that's what I do.
Great. Thank you for that.
So we'll move on to your platform. You've got I think, over 700,000 YouTube subscribers now, what kind of made you start on YouTube? And the kind of what was the space that you were trying to infiltrate with that?
Well, I mean, I think it was an organic process.
I was speaking to people from all different kinds of walks of life. I've spoken to almost every representative from every world religion. I've spoken to people from all kinds of sexual background and, and these kinds of things. And basically, we have discussions and debates.
Some of which have been with high, you know, notable individuals, notorious individuals, some of which have been with the general public. And to be honest with you, it's picked up traction. And that's all it's been really.
Did you expect to make such an impact with your channel? Yeah, I did, because I knew what kind of thing we had to offer. And when you know what you have to offer, in fact, you know, in terms of
you, for example, the content that we're providing, I knew that it was gonna go far and wide, especially in Muslim communities, because it's cutting edge information, which
what I've tried to at least synthesize between secular knowledge, because I've got a background in like some secular fields. And also religious knowledge, which I've also got a background in academic background. And so I knew that when you put these two things together, that people will benefit from that. And so that's what happened. And we say, Alhamdulillah, which is Praise be to God for that.
Great. And we'll move on, you mentioned that you have some influential figures, and undertake being one of them. You were one of the first that undertake came on your podcast, and you spoke about his conversion to Islam. What was the intention of having him you know, his reputation? You know, he's a notable figure. So what did you want to get from him, when you say, let's give him a platform on your YouTube channel, before I, we arranged it actually, he wasn't a Muslim just yet. And so, you know, when I first decided to have a conversation with him, it was going to be more if you like inquisitive, or even interrogative, based on some of the things that he said in the past, some of
the inconsistencies that I've seen in some of the things, you know, prescriptions and descriptions, or diagnoses and so on, but because he turned Muslim, in our faith, we have a belief that when someone becomes Muslim, their spiritual slate is wiped clean. So it ended up being much more friendly,
much more conciliatory, much more harmonious. And that is because we believe everybody has a chance to amend for their ways, and anyone can have a chance for a second chance.
And so, he clarified, even notwithstanding that he did clarify some of the things that were most problematic
in his output in the past,
whether people will be convinced with that is, as a question, I personally was convinced with that I met him personally, I saw him in private and he seemed to me like an authentic figure. So now that he's become a Muslim person, I do believe that
things will change even more, but that's yet to be seen.
You've touched a bit on that and that forgiveness is a massive part of when you do cover up, you have that slight like wiped clean, clean, clean. Some people might not accept that where as his previous life, he was living a very harangue lifestyle, fast cars with it, being arrogant about that and trying to promote his lifestyle to other people. Does that mean that all of that should be forgotten now? I mean, fast cars are not haram. I mean, although if you use money in terms of like the arrogance of his lifestyle, and yeah, I guess, just showing off his Well, I'm just clarifying the point. I mean, certainly, but I think that look, there are two things you touched upon a good
point, which is that
As your spiritual slate is wiped clean, as for those things which relate to the rights of people, clearly, that's not wiped clean. And that's something, although from God can forgive you for it, the people don't necessarily
need to forgive you for that. And so certainly there's work still to be done. It doesn't mean just because he has become Muslim, that everything that he had gets a job or get out of jail free card. No pun intended. I mean, this is obviously because he's in prison. But the point I'm making is that yeah, I mean, I'm saying that
he should, certainly, if there's anything that he's done in the past, or continues to have we as Muslim people, like for example, as you mentioned, casinos or,
and all those things that should be gotten away that should be gotten rid of. But having said that, I haven't spoken to him, it seems like he's in the process of doing that, if not, has done that already. Especially with, for example, the webcam. Business, I've spoken to him and his team, and they've told me that that's a thing of the past. So as I said, Islam is a religion, which attempts to rectify the human condition. And so since he is new to it, I think it's only fair as the Muslim community that will give him time to make these appropriate changes. And I think that's what he's doing.
Um, given that you on untape, which I would say have now well, he now has very young Muslim, predominantly male following, does that not concern you? The Taita fact that has had on the wider community outside of the Muslim community, maybe in schools and things, people educating on how misogyny is not to be glamorized, and people shouldn't talk about women in that way? Are you worried about the association now that he has converted to Islam, that people will try to draw a narrative out of that?
What was the first thing you mentioned about Muslim male followers?
Like I would say that he now has gained quite a few because of his conversion to Islam and yours Your following is, you would say like quite predominantly young Muslim guys. Yeah. There's most of you have similar followings similar power and influence within that, do you worry that the tape effect will carry on and your followers will see that and think, oh, okay, so he's kind of Tate's, he's supporting him in some way, by having him on his platform. It must be mean, that's a, an all of his past views. Could be okay, because they might not have heard the context that you're speaking up, now. I've met him in person, etc, etc.
You've touched upon many different points. I mean, depending on my personal following, depending on what platform we're talking about, like, because I've got access to my own demographics. There are some platforms, which I've got almost uneven. I've got 6040 split, for example. So I don't know if his is predominant in that sense of some majority. But it's, it's not as much as people maybe think it is from the one from the one side. And I think you'll be surprised to know that a lot of females actually follow and rotate, as well. And once again,
don't think it's as this you know, disproportionate as many people think, or asymmetrical as people think it is.
In regards to your comments about misogyny, I don't know what the definition of misogyny that we're employing here is obviously the dictionary definition of misogyny is the hatred of women, but that takes different forms, depending on what ideological kind of background you're coming from. If someone comes from a feminist perspective, once again, misogyny will have a different flavor. Even within feminism, there's discussion, second wave, third wave, in particular queer theory, LGBTQ theory. And so what is a woman in fact is a question because then second wave feminists like Germaine Greer and others would differ, for example, with third wave feminists on who the subject of
misogyny even is in the first place. So, these are important things to unpack before we because, you know, these are terms that require kind of a treatment before before something is, you know, labels put on them. That's the first thing I would say. The second thing is in regards to his effect, i think that his effect was preceded in part or in full by a feeling in this country in particular in the United Kingdom
by men and women, but also men, that feminism itself has gone too far. And there has been a study that has recently fresh freshly been carried and
I think it was by Ipsos, in fact it was by Ipsos which says that 51% of Gen Z 53% of Gen Z and 51% of millennials. Males think that feminism is now discriminating against men think that feminism has gone too far. For example.
This is a study that is
not of the Muslim community or the Jewish community to any other specific, even 41% of females in that study, which was conducted in the university, given King's College London, said the same thing. This is actually quite astonishing, considering the fact that we're talking about Andrew Tate, because Andrew Tay and his likes or the red pill movement, or whatever it is, could be set to be somewhat of a corrective to what many in this country see, has gone wrong, not just in this country, but throughout the western world, and maybe even throughout the world, at large, which is that feminism is now starting to discriminate against men, according to the studies that I've cited. So
Andrew T is is not the cause, I would say it's very difficult to make the case that Andrew T is the cause of this entire phenomena. Some some studies would have to be produced in order for us to make such a wild claim. Instead, I would say that this phenomenon has been kind of festering bubbling in the background for many years, ever since the 80s and 90s. And Andrew Tate represents what many people already think about the state of gender relations in the western world today.
That was based on a study and you can appreciate that not everyone thinks in that way. And I would say maybe a lot of people might disagree to those people who are then maybe directly affected by misogyny and by these sayings. Do we still think that everyone should think in that way? And why are you promoting that way of thinking by suggesting that it doesn't exist?
As the you mentioned, there's studies and people that support that idea that feminism doesn't exist, you have something that you spoke about on your channel and Tate, I would say, kind of, as you said, but kind of that would sit under the red pill ideology. Those views being out there to public's like two
huge follower accounts, putting them on platforms where young people are watching more than they will go down to that local imam or have these conversations. Is that then just like putting that view on them?
Well, first of all, I mean, you said that feminism, many people say feminism doesn't exist. I was not saying that the study said that. The study stated that feminine feminism has gone too far. And that now is starting to discriminate against men is what Gen Z. And it was a study that was done recently. This isn't last week it was published.
And it was actually made into kind of newspaper articles you can see in the Telegraph, for example, had an article on it. So that's one thing. The other thing is, I will say the reason why it's important to define what we exactly what we mean by misogyny is because for example, conservative Muslims, Jewish people,
for example, Christian people, some conservative Christians, with some difference, of course, and within those religions, there's differences as well. They will consider, for example, a differentiation, when it comes to gender roles, that the man has certain roles that the woman doesn't, that there are some things that a man should do or the responsibilities that woman shouldn't have. And to to modern day feminist proponents that could be considered to be a form of discrimination. So when you mentioned the Imam, the thing is, according to many of the feminist readings that I've read, I've written a book on feminism called fifth wave feminism
that I've read on an academic level, I believe that if people were to be exposed to the biblical verses, for example, in Leviticus chapter 21, where it's talking about what what the punishment should be, in fact, the Bible talks about the death penalty being imposed on someone who's who's done a sexual relations, or even the Quran doesn't mention the death penalty here. But it does mention the immorality of the sexual act itself. In chapter seven, verse 81, for example, and these are things that if someone were to go to their local rabbi or local priest, or their local Imam, that they would, for example, on these issues, on the LGBTQ issues or on the on the gender rights
issues, or roles and responsibilities, may offer a response, not too dissimilar from that, which Andrew Tate himself would bring forth. And I would even take it one step further and say that you'll be surprised at the amount of Muslim women, for example, who believe in these things. I mean, for example, there was, I think it was called the, the ICM, and this was in 2016. In fact, the ICM conducted a survey on Muslim people on for example, homosexuality. And you'll be surprised because Andrew Tay, I've looked at his scoured his record have not seen anything about homosexuality in particular, where he's going as far as Muslim people have gone, actually, men and women, the only
13% of Muslim people in this country believe that homosexuality should even be legal men.
and women. So the point is these are anti normative views. And these anti normative views, whether Andrew tea is there or not, would have been there already. The question is, are we as a Muslim people as Jewish people or Christian people, others? Are we allowed to have those views? If we express those views? Would we be now, you know, censored? Would we be punished is there should there be a punishment for having that view, because if the suggestion is that there should be a punishment for that, then I would suggest that pluralism, multiculturalism and even liberalism itself has failed because the idea of pluralism is that you have these individuals and society and groups that
have equal ability to express themselves. And if you want to put the liberal harm principle on it, so long as they don't harm anybody else. So me believing for example, that a man or a woman should have equality of valuable not identic ality and roles me believing in this is something which my faith tells me a majority of Muslim people to believe in that majority of Jewish people, Orthodox Jewish, for example, believe in something like that.
And and so the question is, Can I Can I now have this belief really? Or must I be censored must sign now? And that's really where the question is today. Because woke woke ideology and the left have taken this too far, and privileged the set the rights of some people over the rights of others. And I think that's where the, that's where the discussion really is.
And in terms of that, like people having different opinions, you'd see normative people having a different alternative view on things.
The algorithm will favor people who have those controversial views. So you will get more likes, you will get more viewership, because people are interested in what they're saying that do you think that people are being questioned enough on? Like? Are they being questioned enough on their views? For example, your podcast was taped, you went through a lot of things. But we we didn't know you'd have mentioned, though, that you had a chat, like away from the podcast, on on those haram things that he was doing, and whether He is repenting those and whether he will make those changes? Is that something you see in his future now that he has converted and maybe had a bit more education around?
Yeah, I think it's I hope so. I mean, these are things that the future is something I can't really speculate on. But I think that the the question I tried to pose to you is as follows is that now we have these different groups in the United Kingdom, right? You have homosexuals, LGBTQ Society of Muslims, you have
Christians you have and there's an overlap between these groups. It's not like this is only one or the other, there's clearly an overlap between those groups as well.
Now, what I'm saying is, I personally believe what's happening in mainstream media, because you talk about the algorithm. Now, social media are people like myself, you know, who don't have the financial backing, or only have a camera to my disposal, and you know, people do to click subscribe, and like and stuff like that, you know, social media is one of the only ways that, for example, Muslim people and others can get a voice, you know, to the mainstream public. But the mainstream media is propagating an entirely different type of discourse, which I believe is exclusionary, to conservative Jewish conservative Muslims, you want to call them out orthodox Muslims and so on. And
so the question is,
Can we can we be allowed to say what we want without reprisal or without being called these names, which will have an impact on our lives and livelihoods, which will have an impact on our job, you know, prospects and employability, or lack thereof, I think we're finding that there's now draconian or coercive methods, sometimes it can be even worse than this, which have stopped people from having that liberty. And this is where the problem is. The power doesn't lie with us the power lies with the hegemonic colonial power, which happens to be the United States of America and its extensions
and Western Europe
who are propagating an entirely different message and the message is
basically left wing for the most part and you know, and if you don't conform to that you're attacked. So I don't know if it's because the thing is we're talking about Andrew tape for example, but we haven't even outlined exactly what views that we disagree with here. Like it was all about misogyny we said it depends on how you define misogyny But what exactly are the views that he holds? So it can be a bit of a haram things Okay, fine. We agree those hot on the webcam and all that kind of the those things fine for the sake of argument, but apart from that his social views, what exactly do you find most troublesome about his views? For example? It's not for me personally to
speak on other journalists, but read but reportedly, he thinks that men are the
The old Old
English was my second language.
Basically, that men are higher than women. I'm trying to English. Welsh, for some of those who don't know, the actual words are higher or have have more respect should get more respect or more power with a woman. I think he's made a claim that men or women, I'm pretty sure, I mean, I did clarify that one with him. And he, he did say that he didn't mean it in those terms. So putting that one to the side as well, you can see, yeah, it's provocative language, which is, which is why I asked him about it on my podcast where so he clarified that one. So let's, for the sake of argument, say that, because he's been asked about that multiple times. And he said that I don't mean it like that. So
that's one thing, what else are we talking about here? Now he's talking about higher what men are higher than women and what regarding what and physical strength for example, or in what sense, this is just what he is thought to have done, because of the way that he has spoken about women.
The way that he speaks about women has been reported as speaking down to women, not respecting women, and that you know, people have been directly affected are going to have sort of been been discriminated against because of their gender, because of the effect that he has had on I get what you're saying. But
with respect to you, you're doing a good job. By the way, I don't want to put you on the spot. I mean, I'm just what I'm saying is with respect to you, you still haven't really given me like a, a strong enough quotation of what he has said that, really, you know, you disagree with all that is disagreeable in the first place, let's say like, you say that men is higher than women. I don't know if I come across that exact quote. But let's say for the sake of argument, he says something like that, it would need to be contextualized. Does he mean it, for example, in sense of finances, that men have more money than women more generally speaking, or that they have more physical strength,
we'd need to look at what he said. But what I'm saying is that a lot of what he says the majority of the world agrees with. I mean, this is what I'm saying, for example, in terms of without context. Yeah, I'm not. But what I'm saying is like, for example, on the issue of traditional families and stuff, go to Africa, or go to Asia, or go to and ask them what they think the family should look like. And, in fact, get a quotation of Andrew Tay, word for word about his views on family, and the average feminist view on family or second with feminist and present both transcripts to the average Nigerian, and see what he has to say, you know, the reason why Undertaker is picking up traction, is
because he is just going, he's going with the tide.
In the sense that he is he is saying what the majority of the world is saying, but the West has has forgotten that that is really why he's become so popular. But this is not
new stuff. What he's saying he's talking about women being for example, Homemakers or mothers of children or something like that. You know, I mean, people will find that offensive. People find this offensive. Nowadays, Zahra, if I were to say to you, for examples are like, I personally believe that, you know, you should be at home and you know, you should be married to somebody and, you know, cut out. I was saying that if I were to say to you, I think the best role for you is in the house raising children and so on. To what extent do you find that offensive? If I said the best role? I can't comment, because I
know, I get what I'm saying. But you see the point, we would agree that many women will find that if I went to ITV Studios, right? And I the women that are their career feminists, and I said, Listen, I think I want to make a speech and this and that. And I said, Look, I personally believe that the best thing for women here in this thing is that they stay at home and raise their children,
you know, and look after them, because this career is not going to give them the kind of happiness that they think is going to give them Do you not feel like Pete in an average place, maybe an ITV Studios or something like that, that would be seen as offensive to many women. In this country, I feel like in the same way that you say that a lot of people would agree with the the alternative view, there'll be a different response across the board. Because not everyone has the same view. And I appreciate that. I'm saying that if you go to Nigeria,
I felt that again, it's yeah, what I'm saying is if you go to the Orthodox Jewish community, and I make the statement in a synagogue, I'm pretty sure I'd get a response rate, which would be completely different from ITV Studios. So what I'm saying is, it's all contextual. It's so he represents it. Some of these traditional views are actually the majority of you in the world, I would say.
So the point is, is it's difficult to when someone says misogyny and stuff like that we really need to know what they're talking about here. Because if they mean that they want to impose their feministic worldview, which is that men have exactly the same rules and like in Gozi says in the feminist manifesto, she says that the exact same rights
exact same responsibilities. And she gave one example, one exception. She says breastfeeding is the exception because it's operationally impossible for a man to breastfeed. I mean, most of the world doesn't agree with this thing. And so if he says something like that, and if Yeah, yeah, sorry, just in the term of like context of misogyny being different for other people, what would you say then, if there's, you know, a follower of che, who might not have like, be as well versed as what misogyny means in different aspects, someone who just follows tape because they like the persona that it gives out there has no interest in a learning about what misogyny is or hasn't just given it the
time of day to learn about what that is, and still kind of mimics his behavior or his views. When would you stand on that? Is it just that they need to give us a theatrical performance, I would stand on it in the same way as I would see any other theatrical performance is an entertainer, at the end of the day, he's got us speaking about me about him. So this clearly like, you know, whatever he's done, to some extent has worked, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
And so the point is, is that is there to kind of catch people's attention. Most Imams on many of the same issues, would have a view, maybe many rabbis would have a view, many priests would have a view, similar if not identical to Tate's when it comes to the nuclear family, when it comes to gender roles. When it comes to so many of these diagnoses, they would have the same view, they don't have the same charisma as him. They don't have the same way of articulating themselves as he does. And as such, obviously he's gonna get more traction. He's made. What's mainstream in the world, more mainstream in the West? That's all he's done. He said the same things as you would hit a Nigerian
man. I don't know. I keep bringing Nigeria. The guys are Moroccan man. I think you're from Morocco, originally, something like that. Right? So a Moroccan man sitting drinking his tea, he'd say the same things on some of the issues relating to fish. And if a feminist were to see that Moroccan man or that Nigerian man, you know, or our forefathers were living in North Africa, they would say this guy is misogynist. So So when this label is overused, it has no meaning anymore. And so, undertake, we need to know Okay, some of the stuff is questionable, and I agree. But some of the stuff that really people have a problem with, quite frankly, are the same things that the majority of the world
believes in. And so the controversy is only within our shores, and within the Western world. It shouldn't be. We shouldn't really necessarily think that, that you know, this is something Unruh unremarkable. He's coming to something remarkable. This is completely unremarkable. Some of the toughest things traditional family in this kind of crisis of masculinity. So much so that, as I've mentioned, if so says that the majority of British people think feminism is going to find discriminating against men, Gen Z and millennials. So I don't necessarily think that he's,
a lot of the
times, I'm just going to go on to the next question, if that's okay with you, if and also, just to mention, if this does timeout, I'll just send an actual link so we can carry on the conversation because I don't want to miss anything out. But you mentioned their labels. And from a lot of things that I've read about you and you might not be too happy about it, but you're probably your name will probably crop up with the terms are great, bro, red pill and, and things like that. What is your interpretation of what those things mean? And why do you think that people are associating you with those?
I know, there was one particular article that was written and the person that was consulted was an individual who I excommunicated from the religion of Islam, because of his Aboriginal view, so he had a personal vendetta against me. And he was consulted. And all this is on the public record, and he made these labels.
So I don't, I don't think is that prominent or widespread labels? And not least because obviously, I've actually done videos against Red Pill ideology, itself. And I've, I've called it very strong language, I think it was abominable. I use the word abominable, Apple abhorrent, or something like that. And the reason why I think that the red pill ideology is abominable, or abhorrent is because of its decadence, because of the things that it calls for. There isn't a strong objectification of women, for example, which we don't agree with. The kind of language that is recommended in red pill manuals and books and so on, for us to use, for example, as men with women is not even language that
majority of the same men would use are allowed to be used for their daughters or their mothers.
So I think that it's it's a reactionary movement, but at the same time, it does carry a lot of truth. And in my opinion, way more truth than religion can call it a religion but and my political ideology like feminism, in terms of its scientific backing, its you know, statistical backing and so on. Having said that, I do think it has some view
very negative elements. Once again,
I mentioned the decadence I mentioned, some of the things that go against our vision of
a vision of a moral society, for instance, its idea of, they say, you can let your wife go and you know, have an open relationship with her, or stuff like that. And this idea, this obsession with body counts, sorry to say about body count cycles, and how many women a man sleeps with? These are things, you know, most, I would say, clearly, is that we believe in, we do everything for the sake of God, you know, we believe that God is all knowing or hearing, or wise, and the reasons why we act in a certain way with our wives or with our daughters or with anything else, is because we believe that God has instructed us to do that red pill doesn't have this religious impetus or component at
all. So there are so many aspects of red pill ideology, which contradicts Islam contradict
what it means to be a good person and the religion of Islam. And, and therefore, we are opposed to those aspects as well.
As people labeling me as these things, after I've mentioned all that in clear cut fashion, I think is a good example of how the narrative is attempting, or people are trying to malign the narrative in their favor, really.
You do not identify with any of those labels I want, like accurate, bro is kind of a it's quite a modern word now that I haven't really seen around what, what's your interpretation of what that means? And kind of why do you think you're now seen as well.
As I mentioned, I think it's only been mentioned by like one obscure figure who has a personal vendetta with me on a CNN article that was published and he was consulted this particular individual,
I excommunicated from the religion of Islam, because on the basis of him allegorized thing, stories of the Quran and saying that these are not actually things that happened. So I said that for me, such a person is not a Muslim,
I'm allowed to have that apron opinion. And I do. So he proceeded to, you know, smear with me with these names, and that's fine. I can sit him in disbelief, he considers me a right wing, I think I would rather take the right wing label than the disbelieve a label anyway. But having said that, I mean, there are many aspects of Islam. And I've made another video as a short sexually one minute video, is Islam right wing or left wing. And what I said in that shorts is that it's neither and we shouldn't think of Islam in those terms. For example, part of right wing ideology.
As you may know, as immigration policies, many people are very much opposed to immigration in right wing circles. Whereas Islam is essentially a cosmopolitan religion. It's actually the most multicultural nation on the face of the planet. And so we don't have the same citizen centered approach.
National nationalistic approach has many people on the right half, for instance, and on the left wing of was socially, we're very far away from those things that, you know, I've mentioned in this interview, relating to gender roles, and homosexuality and so on.
And so Islam is neither in left or right wing. And I believe that asking the question of whether Islam is left or right wing itself, has colonial undertones, almost as if all morality should be within the scope of left and right wing constructions, you know, put forward by the white man. I personally believe that such constructions only applicable to a very, you know, select type of social reasoning that is employed in the political discourses in the West shouldn't be generalized to you're either right wing or left wing or centrist. I'm neither of those things or any of those things. And I don't think Islamism, either.
We'll move on just I think we've got about three minutes, I'll skip to the end. And it's basically where do you see you and take this relationship? Now in terms of,
for example, if he came out and was
able to do like, like, podcasts and things like that, again? Would you be welcoming with him with open arms? Or is that dependent on how he has chosen to live his life at that point? I support Andrew Tay and as much as he supports Islam,
or, and I would say the same thing about any human being on the face of the earth. I support that person as much as they support Islam or they believe in it, or they support it or they don't discriminate against it. And so if he continues with the religion of Islam, he will find me as one of his supporters. The Quran actually mentioned this explicitly. With me, no, no one want me that, but Oh,
About that the believers believing men and women, actually, men and women explicitly men and women, both of them are allies of one another. And so we have a relationship with Ally ship, we have an ally ship with anybody who decides to enter the religion of Islam or support it. So my relationship with Andrew at so much as he is a member of my community, is one of support just as much as had I been a member of the LGBTQ society, or community. And
Andrew Tate sorry to say had become a homosexual, I am sure that he would not be discriminated against as a homosexual, by the LGBTQ community that they would welcome him with open arms. And they may even decide to forgive him for his, if you like, prior sins, according to their worldview. So I don't I don't see that this is an issue, because there are multiple subcultures in the United Kingdom. And there are multiple ways of being communities. And all of them have their hierarchy causation or prioritization in favor of their own belief system, first and foremost, and their community. In addition to that, so to answer your question directly, I would support Andrew Tay and
as much as he supports the religion of Islam, and that would mean in any way possible, legal PR perspective or anything else. And I would do the same thing with any human being man or woman or child on the face of the earth.
So that's great. I know that we've touched a bit on there, that you it doesn't matter who undertake was, if that was an LGBT person or a woman, that they would again, be welcomed with open arms on your channel. But do you think that is a is a general view? So for example, if tight was a woman had done there had lived the exact same lifestyle as he was and had then converted to Islam? Do you think that he would have been welcomed in the same way? Yeah, well, people like Sinead O'Connor, who had lived decadent lifestyles, from our perspective, who was not only welcomed into Islam, and the communities,
conservative communities, male dominated ones, but they were actually even added into the list of most influential Muslims on the earth. Like, for example, Sinead O'Connor, from what I've seen, she's in the list of 500 most influential Muslims. And so the answer in short is absolutely, and there is precedent for that. In terms of my own discussions, as I mentioned, the very beginning of this interview, that, actually I have had discussions with feminists, and I've had discussions with people who identify as transgender and Muslim at the same time, which was actually very controversial in my community when I did this. But my mantra is that I will speak to anybody, I
don't mind who it is. And that is because the religion of Islam, or the message of Islam should be one that we could promote or convey to anybody, whoever they are, from whatever background. So this allegation that may have been trying to put forward that well, this he's getting some kind of preferential treatment is not only far away from the truth, it's actually a historical when you look at the recent contemporary conversions to Islam, people becoming Muslim men and women. So yes, the answer is yes. If it was a woman, if it was someone who is transgender, if it was, anybody,
whatever sexual orientation they may have, or whatever, they are most welcome to speak to us in a discussion format, in an non interrogative way, just like me and you are having a discussion now. And if they become Muslim, then yes, the same rule applies to them as well.
Oh, well, I would say take it comes out of jail, given that that happens, and decides to revert back to some of the Haram things that he was doing, and living in like a non Islamic lifestyle.
What, what would be your take on that that?
Well, I mean, we believe that something is done publicly, it must be refuted publicly. And so I would say that, at that point, after he has been given if you like a probationary period, that the Muslim community would need to clarify that these things are not something which Islam actually allows. Whether or not Andrew Tate does it or anybody else, if Muhammad hijab does it if my friends do it, if something is done publicly and must be corrected publicly, and so this is the general but with a new Muslims, we have more of a compassionate approach.
And we have we give people time to make the changes in their life.
So you wouldn't speak out on that, given a certain amount of time has passed? Yeah, I would.
I may, depending on the severity of the sin, obviously, like we're talking about, if something is said, which, for example contradicts the teachings of Islam that needs to be corrected. If something is done, which is one of the major sins and is done publicly, then that needs to be corrected publicly. This is the general rules, honourable model for Nana Mancha. So I would be happy to correct those things. But after a process has been had, and I've got direct communication with Andrew Tate, many of the things that he's accused of, I speak to him on WhatsApp or not anymore, for now. But you know, and I asked him, what he intended by this and that, and the point is, is simply
that I think that we need to give the man time to make the changes, and maybe he comes out of prison. With a change man, he may have a completely different parlance, he may, he may have a different way of thinking, because Islam would change him, if you followed it properly, it would change it would have to change in Islam would change a lot of his behaviors, a lot of his even attitudes and beliefs. There are even some beliefs that he carries now, which are not Islamic in the strictest sense. And obviously, that needs time for him to realize that
he needs to align himself with Islamic teachings
on to take followers who might be thinking about converting to Islam to follow tapes, and in his on his basically like life path and life journey. Do you think that what for what do you think that will happen? Do you think there'll be an effect of people who are non Islamic joining Islam?
And then do you think that their intentions will be correct? Or are they doing it just because they want to be like Tate? I can't judge someone's intention. But it's already happening to people coming into Islam because of him. I've seen it happen. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's happening where you are, but it's certainly happening where we are. And a lot of them come and they become very, very religious. And that's why I say I believe that's a force of good in the sense that he's a force of good in that sense. If they follow the Islamic teachings, they will realize where Andrew T himself is following the Islamic teachings and when he's not.
So Islam as a religion, which is not about following personalities, except for the personality of the Prophet Muhammad and the rest of the prophets. So that's the we believe in that the ultimate guides for humanity are the prophets, the figures, the protagonist in the Quran.
Then after that, you've got the companions of the prophet, and so on, but certainly the prophets. And so we believe that if someone follows Islam, they should be trying to imitate the prophets. I mean, if you consider all of the metrics that Andrew Tate has
achieved, I mean,
the Prophet Muhammad, we would say, has achieved no less than a million times more than than him, whether it be an influence. And we were talking about Prophet Muhammad now 1400 years, whether it be in demographic influence, whether we talk we're talking about military prowess and ability, whether we're talking about managing relationships, who he is managed nine relationships, at one time, he was in a very hot kind of polygamous marriage with women that he took on took on not to use an abused, but we would say, he took them on, for strategic reasons, as a caretaker, as a as a helper of society. And so we believe that the Prophet Muhammad is, is the ultimate role model for those
individuals who want to follow Andrew Tate, therefore,
from the Muslim community. And I would actually say that this is the wrong kind of move. Instead, one should be following the Prophet Muhammad,
who Andrew Tate himself is now trying to follow. I mean, why would you follow someone who is following someone else? For his guidance? Why not just follow the ultimate source of the guidance, or let's just say the ultimate source of the ultimate role model, which is the Prophet Muhammad, who Andrew Tate himself recognizes, is a great person than He is in every respect. So I would say no, you should follow the Prophet Muhammad.
But you can't deny the power of influence like it, it just gets people like everyone's talking about them. Everyone wants to watch them, they are seen as kind of these icons within like modern society, is that then wrong and that you would I cannot use people as role models as people who are people who aren't profits. Is that healthy? Is that a healthy thing to think of someone as a role model? We have a saying from one of the companions of the Prophet which says that if you want to follow
Someone His name is Edna Misawa. He said, If you want to follow someone, follow someone who has died, because the living one has not yet passed the tribulations of life. The point is, if I would always advise someone who's completed the test and done everything is a better person to follow than someone who's still being tested. We don't know what Andrew T is going to do in the next five years, he might apostate from the religion of Islam, he may become a feminist, he moved from putting in anything can happen. So all I'm saying is following such a person would, would bring about a series of problems.
And so instead, we will say to Muslim people, in particular, to follow the Prophet Muhammad men and women and when and women as well actually to follow the Prophet Muhammad. So yes, it does bring about problems when you follow anyone who's living from our perspective. But then again, we will say Andrew Tate
is an individual who is manifesting a series of attributes which men have been deprived of seeing in and having role model to them. gluttonous courageousness, are great articulation, he embodies a lot of what is could be seen classically as like, you know, the intellectual warrior type, intellectual, because he's clever in some aspects, and he can play chess and these kinds of things. But at the same time, we can put up a good fight. And that in many ways, that's what a man wants to be. He wants to be an intellectual warrior. And so from those angles, looking at Andrew to anybody else who has these set of characteristics for inspiration, I don't think is an unhealthy thing for people to
do, so long as they're able to save that out from all the things which are more problematic in his personality.
And how does the close now how important is it that we separate losing opinions of people will be that things that they called their core beliefs as, as human beings? Two
words, Grant Islam as it as its in its fully full form? Is it wrong to be drawing narratives? I like that, if someone is misogynistic, they're trying to justify that with words of the Koran.
But as I mentioned before, misogyny itself is a buzzword that requires definition, so. Okay, so, okay, and maybe not misogyny, but anything?
Any problematic views? Yeah. That's an interpretation, right? Yeah. I mean, some problematic is for different people. We're living in an age, where in the post, post Enlightenment period, in the Western world, we have a phenomenon where people now are influenced by Red Pill ideology, they are beautiful. They are influenced by feminism, liberalism, and so many other things. And they don't want to admit their influence of these things, but they certainly are influenced men, women, and children, okay. And when they are, for example, subscription, they are subscribers, they say to religious faith group like Islam, Muslim people, sometimes you can't have the phenomena of trying to
superimpose what is referred to in hermeneutics, as I said, Jesus, to put words into the Quran to try and find things from the Quran in order to try to justify their positions. This is problematic, we would say, it's a hermeneutical problem. And so, to answer your question directly, yes, I think it is a thing phenomena that's happening, people try and justify their positions, by quoting verses of the Quran cherry picking them and leaving other things out.
And that does happen in the field of gender as well. Men and women do it. And people that are influenced by feminism or red pill or whatever other ideology, do it as well. What we must do if we're true Muslims, is go to the Quran and the holy texts, and let it speak for itself. Try not to be influenced by anything else. Try and genuinely let it speak for itself and not try and have
basically, you know, an entitlement schema that allows us to take that which benefits us and leave off that which doesn't.
That conduct all my questions. Thank you for answering. So honestly, you're welcome.