Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig

Mohammed Hijab


Channel: Mohammed Hijab

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Sit on Welcome brothers and sisters and friends welcome to a nother live stream. This one is going to be a very, very interesting one today I'm being joined by my brother Hamza Slava kimbro

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how you Alhamdulillah? Well, I cannot complain,

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ever grateful to Allah subhanho wa Taala yourself, I'm gonna have a very, very good and very excited as well. But this is going to be a very important live stream. And the reason is well, because,

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you know, throughout history, Christian missionaries have made a objective and goal of the lives of misrepresent Islam, through through poor translations of the Quran, you know, misrepresenting sound concepts and ideas about the deen. And now we find individuals even today in the 21st century, respected individuals, professors who are again, misrepresenting some core fundamentals of Islam just to paint that negative perception. Now, in particular, what we're going to be discussing today is a clip by Dr. William Lane, Craig, which has been circulating again, you might use one that she told me is quite an old clip that was there a few years ago, but it's been recycling again, where he

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speaks about Allah. And he speaks about the love of Allah mentioned in the Quran and compares it to the love of God in Christianity. Now, we're going to go through the whole clip, and we're going to break it down in a second, and we're going to get your thoughts on it and highlight why Craig's view is incorrect. It's either that he hasn't read the Quran, who understood it properly, or it's he's it's that he's deliberately misrepresenting whichever of the two it is, we're not going to make that we're not going to make that judgment, but we're going to put the facts on the table for people to see for themselves, inshallah. But before we do that, thumbs up, why don't you give us a summary,

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bro, of what we're going to be discussing? Yeah, before I do that, I would like to basically say that, you know, we have to have some form of intellectual humility and gratitude as well, at the same time because Dr. William Craig has been responsible for reviving powerful Islamic philosophical arguments for the existence of God. And I personally have benefited a lot from his work. And he is referenced in my book, the divine reality. And for that, we should show some form of intellectual humility, and also, gratitude.

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Notwithstanding, it's very important to highlight very carefully that I remember Dr. William named Craig mentioning the concept of God in Islam, and Christianity, I think 12 years ago, and it struck me, and I've always wanted to respond in some way. And Alhamdulillah, you gave me this opportunity, and May Allah bless you. And we can do this together.

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And the first thing I like to say is Dr. William Lane Craig has obviously not studied the Islamic intellectual spiritual tradition properly. He hasn't gone into the Tafseer, the exegetical works of the verses that he is referring to. He, in my view, hasn't studied the normative classical, Creed's, and the commentaries associated with them concerning the conception of the Divine reality in Islam. And this is problematic because he's been willing to be very nuanced and philosophical when it comes to philosophical ideas, existential ideas, theory or philosophical ideas. But when it comes to the divine in the Islamic tradition,

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he basically regurgitates a form of narrative that echoes someone who's been on Google and does some basic searches. And this has to change. And hopefully, by the end of this video, it would evoke something within him to engage positively with the Islamic intellectual spiritual tradition, and hopefully engage with us in order for us to have a discussion on this topic. So the thing I really want to say is this. There is an argument against Dr. Craig's argument. And it's based on three premises, two premises and a conclusion. Number one, for God to be maximally loving.

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He has to be maximally forgiving.

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Number two, the biblical God is not maximally forgiving. Three, therefore, the biblical God is not maximally loving. And we're going to unpack this. I think the first premise doesn't have to be discussed because if somebody is maximally loving, they have to be maximally forgiving. repeat those three again, just so everyone's on. Yeah. So premise number one for

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Got to be maximally loving.

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It entails, well he has to be maximally forgiving. And this is not a controversial premise because forgiveness is the language of love.

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Number two, and this is the controversial premise. The biblical God, according to William Lane Craig is not maximally forgiving. Number three, therefore the biblical God is not maximally loving now why why is the biblical God not maximally loving, so, not maximally forgiving, and therefore he's not maximally loving. It's very simple. Number one. God's love according to a biblical narrative is rooted in suffering. God's love in a biblical narrative is rooted in forgiving humanity outside of the relation for the human being in the divine. And it's based on an event that supposedly had to happen. And not only that is based on you accepting the event actually happened. It's not rooted in

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your relation to the divine your heart being sincere in asking forgiveness to the divine construct, construct, Contrastingly, the Islamic conception is based on maximal forgiveness, because we just take the human heart to repent to the divine. And this is why in the Christian tradition because of john 316, because of the sacrifice and atonement, what the biblical narrative is saying, it's saying that human sin limits God's mercy.

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So from this point of view, William Lane Craig, I think he's basically being a little bit of a sophist here. Because if you really understand the Christian doctrine, then you have to admit that God is not maximally forgiving. If he's not if he's not maximally forgiving, then how can you be maximally loving, because to be maximally loving, and tells maximal forgiveness as well. So that's the summary of what we're going to be talking about was going to be talking about the fact that actually, have you not read that Allah says about himself that he is a good dude, he is a very loving that's one of his names, which comes from the Arabic Arabic word would which means the loving

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that is giving, he is excessively loving, His love is so pure, and so maximal, that is even greater than any form of love. You can imagine, in a worldly sense, even a mother's love because a mother she needs to love God doesn't need anything yet he loves, you might know how pure and maximal His love is. So I've you not read that God is loving, have you not read the allies, man, and which means the merciful. Now interestingly, from a linguistic point of view, Rama indicates a very intense, loving mercy, a boiling over type of mercy and immediate mercy and mercy that so powerful that no one can stop. And Allah says that his mercy encompasses everything, the sooner the evil do. The

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believer, the non believer, Allah has intense mercy and mercy in the English language is a synonym for love encompasses everything. So why you misrepresenting the Islamic tradition? Because there are different levels of love in the Islamic tradition, different levels of mercy you have, right Ma, you have a Rahim, you have muette de, you have all of these different levels, and they have specific understandings. Anyone who studied the Islamic tradition would have known this right? So you can't say God's God is not his his mercy is not universal. His mercy is what would he What did he say impartial and his mercy is

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conditional. That's not true. Because Allah says his intense Mercy is impossible, because this for everybody is universal encompasses everything. And it's also unconditional. Allah is merciful to you, even if you disobey Him. And as I said, mercy is a cinnamon synonym for love in the Islamic tradition. So this is the kind of summary of the things that we want to talk about. He actually overlooks this, you know, he's just referring to, well, let's just speaking about Okay, he loves so and so he doesn't love so and so the Quran and he completely neglects the aspect of mercy and our mercy and tells love it's a part of love, like you said, and and what we're gonna see as we discuss

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this, bro is that beautiful balance between the love and mercy of Allah, which works in such a magnificent and perfect way, from the perspective of what this life is all about. We're going to see this too, and it's, and if anything, we're going to see how the conception of love and mercy of a lie in Islam in it being in line with the objective of law created reality for is perfect. It is completely coherent on the one thing I mentioned. Isn't it very interesting that you know, is it is it maximal?

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To create human beings with inherent sin, whereas human beings in Islamic tradition, they're created with inherent goodness based on the fitrah. I mean, CASE CLOSED, that's like a philosophical Mic drop right there. Your conception of divine has already put a distance between humanity and the divine because of sin because the wages of sin is death, right? God is a holy country, the the Christian tradition. That's why you need an external type of sacrifice. This is not the Islamic tradition. You don't need that. You are you born into goodness, not into inherent evil, inherent sin. So, from this point of view, just on that perspective, what is more loving, like God is making

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it harder for everybody else, according to the biblical narrative, that not only you're going to be created, you're going to be created distant from me. Inherently you're going to have sin, which distance which distance the human being from the divine, but Allah He creates a human being in goodness, which we call the innate disposition that is based on proton knowledge that has proton knowledge within it, which is God is reality is worthy of worship, and we have a basic level of goodness. Let's proceed. Rob, before I proceed, let me clarify something to the audience. Some people have had an objection with me titling the video Hamza Dorsey's versus William Lane, Craig.

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Now, I didn't say it was a debate. Obviously, I wanted to make the title a bit spicy, just so we can get the interest and inshallah this will lead to a proper discussion, a face to face discussion between maybe Hamza and William Dr. William Lane Craig, after this goes live in Sharla. So yeah, so to clarify that I never said it was a debate, I did clarify on the community section of the page that this is a discussion, it's a response to the reaction video. So apologies to anyone that took the wrong end of the stick with in regards to the title, but now inshallah, let's continue. Let's play the clip, bro. You told me what to stop, and then we'll analyze each section as we go through.

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Sure. Sure.

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I think the question is better reworded by saying is the concept of God and Islam, the same as the concept of God and Christianity? Do we have the same understanding of God? And there I argue that they are worlds apart, that the concept of God and Islam and Christianity is very, very different. And one of the principal ways in which they are different is that the Muslim concept of God, I believe, is morally defective. It is a morally defective vision of who God is, as the greatest conceivable being a morally perfect being. God must be all loving.

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And this is exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that God loves sinners, is love is impartial. It is universal. It is unconditional. And this is a world of difference from the God of the Quran. According to the Quran, God does not love sinners. He does not love unbelievers. He is an enemy to unbelievers. God in the Quran only loves those who first love him. Okay, stop here.

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Okay. Yeah. So, as we said, you know, he he basically misrepresents a lot in the Islamic tradition, God in the Islamic tradition, where he's basically saying that God doesn't love sinners. He doesn't love those who, you know, disobey Him the wrongdoers. Now we have to understand what does he mean by love here? Because as we said, mercy is also a synonym for love. So does God have mercy for the disbelievers? Absolutely. We mentioned this in the beginning. Allah says his mercy encompasses everything. Does God have mercy for wrongdoers? Absolutely. Now, but I also want to challenge his conception of love. What type of love are you now talking about? Because there are different types

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of love. The Islamic tradition is very nuanced, right? We have many names, meanings, words for love, and they have a particular reality. Now, you know, it's easy to use the English language say love, but what do you actually mean? So I would I would actually ask him that question, because I want you to think about this book. And I wrote this down on my phone and unlock the phone. Now, is it maximal love to love everything the same? That's the big question. Yes. And this is the problem, because it is not maximally loving to love everything the same. Can I love goodness, the same way as I love badness, evil. In actual fact, would it be loving for me to love evil?

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I mean, let's think of it right. So think about this. perfect love is to love goodness to love

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Mercy to love kindness to love connecting with one's creator to love peace.

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And it follows that if you love something, you have to hate its opposite.

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Which means you have to hate evil. You have to hate the opposition to love. You have to have to hate malevolence, you have to hate polytheism you have to hit chaos and destruction. Are you saying it's perfect, maximal love? To love that? Which is a barrier to love? I mean, this doesn't make sense. Because if you love everything, then you really don't love anything at all.

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Yeah, you you actually summarize the bad summarizing?

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Yes, the second point is on terms like God doesn't love the sinner. Well, what does that really mean? Does it mean God doesn't love the human being? What makes a human being the intrinsic value of the human being? Absolutely not. What does the law say about the human being? He has a rule, he has a soul, he has a fifth law. And in that filter, there is goodness, the innate disposition has goodness, does good hate that? No. Let me tell you what God doesn't like God doesn't like the way the human being has identity identified themselves by virtue of their state of being I know, this is a bit philosophical, but you have to understand this. So good isn't like how we've identified

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ourselves by virtue of our state of being meaning, how we relate to ourselves, how we relate to others, and how we relate to the Creator. So if my relation to myself and my relation to others, and my relation to the Creator, is not good, is evil. Why would God like that? That's not an expression of maximum maximum perfection. And even though God would not love that, he still has another type of love, if you like, which is he still has mercy for the one who relates to himself relates to others and relates to the divine in an evil way. So this is a new it's discussion. And we didn't mean Creek, unfortunately, did not give Islam Jew justice, especially since you know, he's grateful for

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the likes of Allah ghazali, the 11th century theologian and what baffles me Habibi, yeah, Rudy. Ryan, what baffles me, Allah ghazali himself, he wrote his, his Compendium, sorry, his revival of the religious sciences, in the 36 volume. What does he write about? He writes about muhabba, love, intimacy, contentment with Allah subhanho wa Taala. And that book, he talks about, he affirms allez vous, dude, he is loving and he loves and they can be a loving relationship between creation and the Creator. That's his own teacher, William Lane, creeks teacher, Allah ghazali wrote about this, you didn't have to go too far to understand that Allah is Allah will do the loving. And he says that

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he's messy encompasses everything. So from that point of view, I would even say that the way his understanding God's love is not maximally perfect. Is he absolutely bro and just let me just, I guess, paint that in a slightly different way. So we can really get the point across to people. It's like, what's what we're saying is from this timing perspective, Allah subhanaw taala is maximally perfect love is in line with his names and attributes number one, and number two, it's in line with the objective that he's created this world for. Allah tells us, for example, in sort of Surah mulk, that he created life and death to test which of us is best in deeds. Therefore, God has created us

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in this world, he's made us agents with freewill, and he wants us to do good and stay away from evil. Now, if God has created us for that reason, then why would this very same God who were claiming is maximally perfectly maximally loving, at the same time, express his love to creation in a way which undermines that whole project? Because he loves if he loves the sinner, or the Hitler as much as he loves the Mother Teresa or the saint? where the where is the objective? Where is the where is the motivation for the the saint to continue to be good and to continue on that path? And where is the motivation broke for the sinner and the Hitler to leave the sin and to become good?

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Right? And

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I really believe from what Allah says he does not love the disbeliever for example, in the third chapter of the Quran, verse 32, where he says he does not like love the display, but this in a way is acts as a motivation for the disbeliever to leave that state like you mentioned, and adopt a state of absolutely right and notice that it also means that it doesn't mean though that Allah doesn't have another intense mercy for the display. Of course Allah has intense mercy for the disbeliever because we said there's many grades of mercy and loving the Islamic tradition is very newest. But bro you you've opened a massive can of worms philosophical grounds, which is amazing,

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not for us for the Dr. Craig conception of theology.

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Moral duties don't make sense anymore. Yes. Because why is that that pressing ought that we ought to do something

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If Allah loves the sinner, everybody in that way, then you know in the Christian tradition, I'm fine. I go kill 1000 people, right? And I just believe that Jesus sacrifices his life for me No problem, then I'm okay. As you said yesterday, it's a form of you told me religious nihilism

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religious nihilism, kneel ism. Yeah. Which is absolutely really, really, really powerful. So, yeah, we're also also brought, you know, when I and this is another one people to think of it when Allah says he does not love the disbeliever. This is a love, love being expressed to the disbeliever in a way, because it's his loving mercy, which makes the disbeliever think, Oh my God, my God does not love me, it hits him deep inside his fitrah. And this will encourage him to rectifies it. That's a very good point, if you could articulate this way as well. So see it, say disbelieve is someone who doesn't who rejects the truth is listening to this. So Allah has intense mercy for you. But you

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won't have a the relationship of special love with him, unless you accept the truth. And you accept the fact that he's the only data where they worship and that was the final prophet, that should be motivating, because it's not. It's not from that point of view that you are discarded intrinsically as a human being, but the way you've identified yourself and how you relate to yourself, and others, and Allah is something that is not loved at all. And if you want to be in a state of being that is love, and you enter to that loving relationship with Allah, then you have to do X, Y and Z. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I think we should just going back on the point that if you love

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everything the same you don't love anything at all. Yeah, you've undermined the whole human project from that perspective and and that in itself would be a sign that will you in a way you be claiming that the maximally perfect being is not maximally perfect? Yeah, that was the way he expressed his love to creation Yeah, because yeah maximum perfect being doesn't love everything the same? Yeah. And and yes, it does a maximum perfect being Have mercy for everything. Absolutely. Just like Allah says, he has mercy for everything the sinner that he will do the believer. But does Allah have that special love for everything the same? Of course not. Because if that's the case, you don't really

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love anything at all. Because as we mentioned, maximal perfect love means that you love goodness, and therefore you should hate the opposite of that, which is evil. Yeah. So from that point of view, I think his assumption is false. Maybe I'll continue to continue on Charlotte, let me play music.

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But his love rises no higher than the sort of love that Jesus said tax collectors and sinners exhibit. They love those who love them. And that's the kind of love that the God of the Quran exhibits. So the kurama assures us of God

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fearing and the this we have to hold him we have to just say no here this this is this is almost the cheeky How can you say the God of Islam His love is like the love of the tax collector, they're a sinner. What we've said already undermines our because God's mercy and mercy is a synonym, synonym of love is intense bases for everything that center that you will do and the good one, but I want to mention something here. In actual fact, he is a victim of his own criticism. Why? Because remember, maximal love and total maximal forgiveness, good in the biblical tradition is not maximally forgiving His forgiveness. In other words, the way he expresses his love is worse than any type of

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human forgiveness, bro, if I did you wrong. And you said to me, I would only forgive you if someone's son is sacrificed. And you have to believe that event happened. Yeah. And by you accepting that event, I will forgive you. Is that forgiveness? Well, that's not that's not adequate for limited human beings. How can you play that to the Creator of the heavens? Thank you very much. This is what you call a mic drop philosophically. mic is a pen, but you get my point. Yeah. I think what Craig has done here is philosophically theologically spiritually unacceptable. Yeah. It's It's It's bordering literally a joke. And it's unfortunate that you and this is one of the things that really

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shocked me, bro, was someone of his caliber, wood, wood, wood, wood, make such statements publicly. Not doing his research, you know that and you see this over and over again. And that's what's shocking. But anyway, let's finish off what he's saying. Let me play the rest of the clip for you.

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guys love for the God fearing and the good doers, but he has no love for sinners and unbelievers. The Quran says that God does not love the very people that

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JOHN 316 says God loves so much that he said his only Son to die for them while we were yet enemies Christ died for us. So this will be something.

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Yep. Okay, so john 316, that God loves us so much that He basically sacrifices on your song for us right? Now, there's another dimension to this, which doesn't directly relate to what we're talking about. But it's still very significant important because it it, you know, john 316 is supposed to be this amazing thing and that, you know, the Christians have a monopoly on a loving relationship with the divine. I am sorry, this is not the case at all. JOHN 316, actually shows that there is no maximum forgiveness and maximal love in the biblical tradition with regards to the conception of the Divine. Why am I saying this? Because if, if God sacrifice his son for human sin, that isn't me not

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believing in Christianity, as in me being a Muslim. Isn't that a sin? So by virtue of that, I should be okay. Right? Yep. Jesus didn't Jesus sacrifice. It wasn't a sacrifice for me as well. Yeah, me being a Muslim, is that sinful, according to the Christian tradition, mainstream biblical Christianity with say, a Ron Hamza, you know, you guys are sinners. Because when you have inherent sin, and you don't follow Jesus, you follow Islam, which too many Christians would say, it's not the truth.

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And that's fine. But then I would say, well, didn't Jesus die and get sacrificed for me for this thing? If they say yes, then do I have to accept Jesus? They will say, No, no, no, no, because it's a gift, you have to accept the gift, you have to accept they actually happened. But for me, doesn't that really devalue the intrinsic nature of the sacrifice?

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Craig's original point Gods must be just across the board equal and the same at all times. Yeah, that should apply to us. Or

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it should, it should apply to the manifestation of His love, which is a sacrifice, if the manifestation of His love, which is the sacrifice doesn't have intrinsic value, because it's also contingent on me accepting, which is a historical event, which is based on a text that is historically inaccurate, has textual integrity problems, X, Y, and Z, then how is a maximum of love? And, and and how does that make the event so special? When now, not only must the event happen, but I have to acknowledge the event and accept the event at the same time.

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So I would say that in some way, obviously needs more theological and philosophical unpacking. But in some way, it really diminishes what you're saying about john 316. And in actual fact, let's go back to the whole forgiveness, maximal love and tolls maximal forgiveness. Well, how is this maximally forgiving? He is, Well, firstly, he's not even maximally just right, because he is blaming someone else. He's blaming someone that doesn't deserve the blame. And he's torturing and he's sacrificing someone that didn't that doesn't deserve this, the the torturing and the sacrifice. So how is that maximal forgiveness and maximal justice? The other thing is, it's not maximal

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forgiveness, because the forgiveness of me as a human being is contingent on an event outside of my relation to the divine, and is contingent on me accepting it.

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But with regards to the Islamic tradition, maximal forgiveness is manifested itself. Why? Because it just requires me and my heart to do Toba. It's the far to turn back to God to ask for his forgiveness. I don't need a sacrifice outside of me.

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Because the wages of sin is death. Sin is so bad that, you know, you have to have some kind of blood sacrifice. Yeah. Which really the biblical tradition is saying that God that human sin limits God's mercy. And that's a national Islamic tradition. So which is more loving and forgiving? God, God, which one? Well, why and this is why Muslims should talk about this morn we don't unfortunately, because we have a very deep, loving type of tradition, and it's manifested in our history. I want to read something to you. Just very quickly. Yeah. And it's actually a historical narrative is based on a Jewish poet, right? A Jewish poet. You know, our Jewish cousins. Yeah, let me tell one of my

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Jewish cousins what he said

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to the sisters while Hamza is bringing it up.

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So if you have any questions, please hold off I'll tell you guys we're gonna do questions at the end inshallah. So just repost them if you post them already and we'll address them inshallah Make sure to share this on your social medias on your lives wherever you wherever you can share this to other people get access to this to inshallah, God, I'm sorry. So in the Christian tradition, the Holy Spirit is supposed to be working right in, you know, in the in

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The present tense and throughout history, but every time the Christians have always been empowered, especially the medieval Catholic Church, it's not being very loving at all. I mean,

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we don't have to talk about when Christianity was in power, what happened here? Look what happened in in Spain. We know what happened in Spain, what was it called? It was called the

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forgotten the name for the Inquisition, right? Killing the Jews and the Muslims, right, and the Jews had to go to instable in Turkey. And there were Jewish rabbi, he says, Come to the land of the Turks. Rich are the fruits of the earth, we live in freedom and peace, right kind of thing. So every time you know, the Christian tradition, or the church or the Holy Spirit has been manifesting itself, but it's a key right throughout the ages, it has been bloodshed and killing of minorities and stuff, what's going on here. And it's interesting that a famous Jewish shade sage and poet Abraham Ibn Ezra, he wrote the following when he was living, I believe, under the Islamic influence

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Islamic authority, he said, the Muslims sing of love and passion, the Christians of war and revenge, the Greeks of wisdom and devices, the Indians have parables and riddles, and the Israelites, songs and praises to the Lord of the hosts. So you know, poetry is like a mirror of what's happening from a historical perspective. And the other thing I want to say is, we had our kind of saintly figures or pious predecessors or pious masters, especially in the early three generations, the love of God, loving God was an act of worship, right, because it worshiping Allah means what to know Him, to love him to obey Him, and to direct and single out all acts of worship to God alone. And there was a

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famous scholar, if you like, it was a woman, a chef, her, her name is robbia l at the Ouija, she wrote a beautiful poem. And she wrote it about the love of life very moving, she said, two ways, I love the selfish Li. And next, as worthy is of the two selfish love that I do not save think on the with every thought, to spirits love, without just raise to veil to my adoring gaze, not mine, the praise in that or this line is the praise in both iOS. It's a really powerful.

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And it's throughout our tradition, we've had scholarly people, pious people, especially the early three generations, talking about the love of the Divine, talking about all of these amazing things. So it's very important to understand that the idea of God's love and us loving God has manifested itself throughout history throughout our poetry throughout our literature. I mentioned Al ghazali, when he talks about divine love. What about the student of the being Tamia? Even when he basically wrote you know, his quote, The heart surgeon, and I'm not talking about medical, we're talking about spiritual heart, he talks about the love of Allah. Right and being close to Allah and loving him.

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You know, it's an aspect of the key aspect of worship to have a floss which means sincerity to do the act of worship for Allah alone. And one aspect of the classes do to do because he's worthy of a to do it because you love it. Right. So love it permeates our tradition, you know, tradition. So, it is unfortunate that you know, people as popular, you know, they they should have an epistemic duty, yes, and intellectual duty to at least allow the tradition to speak for itself from that point. Yeah. And honestly, like when you think about the, just the mercy of Allah, even to the sinner, the one that's done all this evil and wrong, bro. Allah loving mercy encompasses them, Allah reminds

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them, Allah calls them back, Allah encourages them by telling them that he does not love them. You know, Allah encourages them by telling them who he does love. Allah gives him time on this earth bro. He doesn't just tell them or take the life immediately as soon as they commit a sin or do something. And interestingly, that is a manifestation of intense mercy. Yeah. And as I said, mercy is a synonym for love in the English language. So Allah has a tense mercy for you, that he would say to you, your state of being how you relate to yourself, others and how you relate to God is something that he does not love. So what would make you think I need to stay change my state of

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being? Yes.

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And all of this, look how beautifully it's in line with the objective of this existence as well. The Allies know creating a situation now by some sort of sacrifice, which which brings into question His justice, you know, brings into question his, his forgiveness. It all just pans out in such a beautiful and coherent way based on you know, just thinking, absolutely. Let's Let's finish Let's finish off. If he's not finished already. He's pretty much finished. But let's finish off for you Is this what you saying?

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The God

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and the God of the Bible, the Heavenly Father revealed by Jesus

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Love, loves,

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wants him to come to Him His love is universal

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and unconditional love. But the God of the Quran, His love is partial, it is selected and

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only those who

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will receive it. So this is a vastly different conception of God. So I would agree with those who say that the God of Muhammad is not the God of

00:35:40--> 00:35:42

Okay, so

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yep, yeah, well, we've already dealt with those points. Just to go back to the point when he says the God of Islam His love is partial selective and and, again, that's not true. God's intense mercy and remember, mercy is a symbol of love in the English language. God's mercy is impartial is for everybody, sinner, and believe or disbelieve a good dog etc. is not selected for Hamza Can you just repeat what Craig said, because I don't think the guys could hear the last year. So basically what he said he said God in Islam, His love is partial selective and has to be earned. And I'm saying we've already dealt with that because mercy, Allah being a rock man that intensely merciful. Mercy

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is a synonym for love. And Allah says that his mercy encompasses everything. So it's not partial, is not selective is for everyone and everything. good person, bad person, believe a disbeliever. And it's not earned, because you could reject Him, you could live a life of disobeying him and allies to enveloping you in his intense, powerful, immediate mercy, because that's what a rock man means. And interestingly, the word a rough man shares the same root as the root for the room. Right? And you know, the room holds the baby and the mother, what kind of love that she has for the baby. And this echoes a prophetic tradition with a prophet Mohammed upon him. vp said that, you know, Allah has

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more affection for you than your mother's

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CASE CLOSED, I don't know what Craig is reading? is Craig reading the same tradition? Is he reading the same core? And is he reading the same intellectual spiritual tradition? Has he studied the Islamic theology properly? So why want to see to him is this? Why don't you accept this woman to the invitation is going to be warm, it's going to be a dialogue, it's going to be hopefully arrogant and excessive, it's going to be just two people speaking, or as many people as you want. come online for a live discussion. With Sapiens Institute, let's have a discussion on the concept of God and Islam, and the concept of God in the Islamic in the Christian tradition, it's time that we had a

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conversation about this. It's time that we don't talk past each other. It is time that we articulate our case for the concept of the of God in our traditions, in a warm intellectual, and in a compassionate way, with wisdom. And you know, without talking over each other, we're having a nice, friendly discussion, just like what you had with, you know, a popular YouTube atheist cosmic skeptic. I'm sure we could do that with someone who you know, is of the Abrahamic faiths. Let's have that discussion. It's time that we had discussion on this particular point. And to do it in a way that is edifying because maybe we've said something a little bit wrong today. Maybe we've

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misrepresented the Christian tradition, maybe whatever the case may be, we can actually learn from each other from that point of view, which is very powerful and very interesting. Notwithstanding, there is another approach to dealing with this issue, which brother Adnan Rashid, if you go to Brother machines YouTube channel, he's actually dealt with this in a different way. It was more of a you know, let's see if God is loving because look at the biblical tradition, what it says about killing the unbelievers and all of these things, right. And he uses it, he uses, he uses a textual approach. So if so, is interesting in that approach, please go to Don Ritchie's YouTube channel for

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you to

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learn from that approach as well. That's probably not the particular approach that I'm used to because that's not my learning. I've learned an expert on these things, Mashallah. My thing is more creed, theology, Thiele philosophy, that's what we've addressed it in this way. But I think both approaches are quite complimentary. And what's really interesting, I said to mine, I said to him, you, you went for the jugular, and you spoke about the elephant in the room at the same time.

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But yeah, so so I think this is it. I think we've, we've we've addressed

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Professor William Craig, you know, we thanked him in the beginning for for some aspects of his work. But you know, we had to address it the way that we did and hopefully, you know, this warm interview invitation is open and

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If he wants to his team wants to contact us, we will reach out but if he's team wants to contact us, just go to info at sapience Institute org SAP IE n c e institute.org. And yet

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recently William Dr. William Lane Craig has been quite he's been a bit more vocal in regards to Islam and been talking about Islam a lot more I don't know if it's influenced by David word, whatever the case is. But definitely look if you're gonna

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David Wood was finished while he's finished, but he's still trying to as as per

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as per the language of

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Mashallah, so yeah, it's it's it's an open invitation. You know, the objective, one of the objectives behind doing this live was one, number one, first and foremost, to clarify, you know, how we understand and try to, to the best of our ability do justice to how we understand the love of Allah from the Islamic tradition. And secondly, was to invite Dr. William Lane Craig, for an official debate. It could be online, we know he's done it before with the cosmic skeptic, etc, online. So there shouldn't be any excuses or issues. So definitely, you know, and another thing brothers and sisters is Hamza is about 300. And he was about 350. People watching this live is about

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306. Now, brothers and sisters will lie It's it's, I would say it's a responsibility on every single one of us right now to share this or tweet this to Dr. William Lane Craig, or his team, and and get this out there. So we can have that dialogue, let's make this content. And another at the very least, at least he gets to learn about what Islam says in regards to the love of God. Yes, and one thing, one thing I want to mention is to the Muslims, right, you know, we have to take responsibility as well. We haven't, you know, collectively, especially in the West revived this understanding of worship that includes God's love. It's very important for us to resurrect this

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classical, mainstream Islamic understanding of the divine nature that his elbow dude, he is the loving, and how we relate to that, because what worshiping Allah entails knowing him, but also loving him, and obeying Him. And that includes being humble before him and directing all acts of worship to him alone. We need to establish a loving relationship with Allah subhana wa to Allah. The reason I'm saying that because it would change the way we become in the world and who we are. So I've been so shocked, especially when I became Muslim around 18 years ago that Christians can say that they have a loving relationship with the Lord. Muslims don't have a loving relationship with

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the Lord. And I'm thinking, How on earth can they even say this? And ask because maybe we don't speak about this enough. Because if any Christian I'm talking to my Christian Brothers and citizen humanity now, if you understood who Allah is, that he doesn't require anything external to the way you relate to God in order to God for God to forgive you, right? You don't it doesn't require an external sacrifice doesn't require you to believe that that sacrifice actually even happened just your heart to attend to him. That's all that's required. This is maximal forgiveness. This is maximal love. The way you worship Allah is not through His Son, or through a pope or book. It's

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actually yourself. Salah the five daily prayers comes from the root word to connect. We want to connect directly to the divine. This is a direct loving relationship, a direct loving relationship. Jesus is not the bridge between you and the Father, the so called father, but rather is does your heart and Allah, your heart and Allah, lay your heart gaze to the level of loss of Hannah Rotella it become closer to Allah by following the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam because Allah says in the Quran, if you love Allah, then follow me meaning follow Mohammed Sonam and Allah would love you and forgive your sins. And this is a special type of love. Allah has that intense mercy for

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you. But if you want that special type of love, you want that love, then you need to follow the way to him which is worshiping Allah subhanho wa Taala because

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because you know, worshipping Allah subhanho wa Taala in the kind of Mohammedan way in the way of the son of the process alum is the way to connect to him and that doesn't require anything external doesn't require his son it is you directly to Allah. So why is he who has more of a loving relationship? Right from that point of view, because it's, it's it's all there it's it's you your heart and Allah. So you know, I I want Christians to study this tradition, to understand this tradition to understand who our last panel with Allah is. And maybe you should play a final video because it's very interesting that William Lane Craig was saying that God in the Quran hates so and

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so. But what is actually the Bible say I mean, you become a victim of your own criticism. watch his video guys, and put the volume up. Yeah, give me a second. Let me just

00:44:56--> 00:44:59

Well, basically, yeah, carry on until you get it ready. It's in Proverbs. That

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The God of the Bible actually hates seven people or seven things at least.

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Let me put the nail in his coffin real tight. God hates a liar.

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God hates a liar.

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Proverbs chapter six verse 16 says, These six things don't the Lord hate. Yay, seven are an abomination unto him.

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A problem a lying tongue and hands that shed innocent blood. A heart that devises wicked imaginations that be swift and running to mischief. A false witness that speaketh lies and he that so with discord among brethren.

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In the short list of seven things that God hates to amongst them are lying.

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Okay, that's that that pretty much summarizes it, bro, I think that's another interesting point spawn, you know, we're gonna be left at the end because it wasn't necessary. But if we think about it, you know, maybe it wasn't, it wasn't but you know, you have to understand that sometimes you need to be coherent and consistent. You can't be a victim of your own criticism. So the same criticism to the biblical god my friend right hates God hates someone who's whose God hates the liar, right? The person who does force witnesses something so

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you square the circle, Dr. William Craig, please, Craig needs to be careful. You're gonna say I'm gonna say you know, you're very careful. You're not lying, especially about this type of traditional we're not saying he is. But he has to at least do his research when he's speaking about Islam and the love of God in Islam. That being said brothers and sisters, two things two calls to action number one, share this with William Lane Craig get this out to him so we can make the actual debate happen between Hamza and Craig. Dr. Craig and secondly, pro you'll be shocked last thing you know when I was going through doing a bit of research yesterday on Google so many Christian missionaries

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are taking willingly and Craig's argument this argument about the love of Allah being not perfectly cetera and Islam or deficient and writing blog posts and all of these essays and all of these things online so many of them say narrative. brothers sisters, make sure you push this video this is the starting point of getting the correct narrative out the inshallah push this video was brother anon Rashid's video that he's done on his channel, which was also really takes a different perspective. And yeah, that's it, anything comes up. Last thing you want to say before we wrap up? Well, I wouldn't want to have a debate with Craig I want to have a conversation with him. I think that's

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very important. And hopefully in the future we're going to be writing about this topic in specific response to Dr. Craig's perspective on the concept of God in the Christian tradition Islamic tradition, and you know, anything we've said that is wrong. Anything that we said that is inaccurate has come from our egos has come from shaytaan anything that is good has come from Allah will dude the loving Lord or right man the intensity merciful Lord, r Rahim, the specially merciful Lord, and everyone needs to remember that may Allah bless every single one of you. Allah guide every single one of you may already be showered and enveloped in God's intense mercy and His boundless love. This

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is the Islamic tradition. Cinema yT karatu La Habra cat color hair Salaam Alaikum warahmatullah