IntaLIVE #43 Business & Entrepreneurship

Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah robotiq. At this low manga Rahim al hamdu. lillahi Rabbil alameen sallallahu wasallam Ababa Island, Amina Muhammad, wa ala alihi wa sahbihi, as you may live in Illa. Today, we'll be speaking about an interesting topic. And that is with regards to business and entrepreneurship, the even Illa. What's important to mention is that a lot of the Sahaba of the Allahu anhu were business people. And they had their own incomes. And they were people who worked hard. So not only did they have the deen side, to eat the religious side to ETS, they were the best of creation. But also when it came to the dunya. They also worked hard, a lot of them. They were

those who chose after they had, you know, fulfilled whatever they needed. They were not a burden on anybody else. And they had chose chosen to live minimalistic lifestyles, or not really go out to earn. And they were those who went out to earn and they became some of the wealthiest of me.

Salam Alikum walaikum salam alaikum to live abarca how are you chef? And hamdulillah? How are you? I hope you well Alhamdulillah well, and in good spirits, we hope the viewers are well as well. And we hope everybody's well. inshallah, today we'll be speaking about an interesting topic. We've touched on it many times and with a just a short and brief introduction, and then we want to get straight into the actual doing ama know how often to Sharla basically, when it comes to business, entrepreneurship, etc. When we look at the lives of the Sahaba of the loved one, a lot of them were businessmen. Yes, they were the best of people when it came to the deen. But also when it came to

the dunya The difference was they their lives and the goal was not this world or wealth, rather, it was to use it to do good deeds and attain that. And just one example that always stands out for me is my family, a loved one who was promised a Jeanette on several occasions, but two of these occasions will because of his wealth, both and so

on one instance the messenger sallallahu alayhi wasallam said whoever buys the well of Roma, and gives it to the people basically at the time when the Muslims came to Medina. They didn't have water and the person who owned the well didn't want to give it for free and he made it very difficult. So the messenger sallallahu alayhi. wasallam says, whoever buys this well, then he will get Jana. So imagine your whole life. We are all living even Ulla we're all trying to get to Jenna imagine the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam stands up and he says, Whoever does this good deed will get gentlemen immediately. Everybody wants to do it, but not everybody can do it because this needed not

only somebody to to have a man and belief but they also needed wealth. So if man Fabiola instance was somebody who had wealth and he was able to buy the well, another thing when it comes to the army of Ursula, the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam again says as the hell Buhari that whoever prepares this ami, you will be given Jana, again we hear about Jana, everybody wants to get Jenna but along with a man with my along with a man what was also required was a person to have wealth and with my my family or loved ones who had this wealth.

Yes, absolutely. You know, we find Islam promotes a balance between the dunya and akhira. So, of course, your primary goal and you know, focus should be the earth healer, but we find even in the dua for su masasa lab, we would say urbinati, Macedonia Hassan Warfield siracha center working out of enough so, you know, if we take that into proportion that you could literally see that two parts of it is to do with the, with the earth here, and one part has to do with the dunia so I'm not saying that that's the proportion that you should divide your life into but the ease Well, I tend said no see that come in at dunya Don't forget you portion from the dunya so survive live trade do

something for yourself building this dunya as well as and especially as you coin it, you know, for the earth era, you use this dunya for the last year, and that's something that is a powerful tool that can be utilized in order to achieve and attain goodness Sheehan I think this topic it means a lot to the both of us and if somebody had to ask us a lot of people would look at us and they would think okay, strange. Why are they talking a lot about business or not about wealth, etc. For me, I think if you look at wanting to do things in life, we're not saying you have to have wealth but

Well helps a lot. And in certain instances, you need wealth to do certain things. So you can't go begging when you can't sustain certain things without wealth. That's why if you look at some of the decisions, the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam made, yes, there was obviously it was for Allah subhanho wa Taala, there was a community benefit. But there was also an economic benefit. I give you a few examples, one of them being when it came to them, or Aha, peering between the mohajir own and unsought people from Makkah, so many people have come, they've come into a foreign land, they've got nothing the messenger, sallAllahu, Alayhi, wasallam, pays them with people. Yes, it was good that

somebody had another brother, they could live together, you know, they could help one another. Also, when it came to the wealth, they shared in the wealth, and if you think of it economically, if you bring people who have nothing to a certain place, and they not doing anything, obviously, they going to be need, they're going to be suffering. So economically, this helped them when it came to, you know, ending Yes, they will also help in the fields and they will do certain things. Also, when it comes to the Sahaba Viola on the hola Abubakar do remember the lover and Who is the man, Allah? Hi, I'm Jamie. And we find a lot of decisions were also economic decisions that were made when the

Islamic empire spread. So remember the Allahu anhu, he made the de one where he collected the names of everybody. So when they used to give them wealth, etc, he knew who was given what and how much were they given. And this was, according to their level, what's this, this is to do with wealth, this is to do with economics, so to say,

yes, you know, also masala would make this

a lot mccreaney Bihari can call me, you know, suffice me with the handle.

A way that keeps me away from the harm which is meaning it's enough for me such that it's, I don't need to engage in hell on what other needs to be fugly come and see work. And, you know, empower me or make me independent with your favor from those who are besides you, anyone besides you. So, in and of itself, if you look at the dura, one part of it would be economic and financial independence where you earn that independence and you've got it such that nobody can tell you, this is what you're going to do. This is how you're going to live your life, this is where you're going to be at such and such a time, and this is where you're not going to be. So that's one part of I think, the

drive for a lot of people to try and earn the financial independence where they want their freedom, so to speak, they want to be able to decide for themselves, how to allocate and apportion the time, etc. And I found this very interesting because,

you know, based on personal experiences, etc, as well. You find yourself in situations where you're employed, and it's very different to when you're an employee, yeah, you will now a lot more free, so to speak, to now decide and decide, you know, apportion things, put things in place, and mechanism systems such that your time is freed up for other, you know, useful and beneficial projects, etc.

chickened out after speaking a little bit about how this is actually encouraged in Islam, as long as somebody is not doing something Haram, something permissible, and with the correct intention, it can become good deed, we move on to the topic of living in the world we live in today, with those who follow for example, some of the economic difficulties for example, 2018, a lot of countries currently with the pandemic, etc. We find a lot of people who have been put off work a lot of people who may have had savings or retirement that as they worked in their job, they had given so much money, but now this money is they unable to return it to them later on. And I think it's something

important to speak about because it affects everybody, somehow or another. If you're watching this, you probably own your own business, or you work in somebody's business, or you will eventually get to that stage. It's one of the two. And I think this teaches us the importance, especially in the world we living in today. Yes, it's not it's not easy. It does have it does require a lot of work and it does require dedication, but it teaches us that we should have as the term it more than one stream of income imagine you on a job and it's everything is going well. And all of a sudden you need to be laid off all of a sudden you you know they tell you your services are no longer required.

Sometimes in the world we live in not only when it comes to wealth, but things in general when things are going

Well, we never ever think about the rainy day, or we never ever think about when things are not going to do well. And the sooner Allah subhanho wa Taala, he has decreed that nothing just goes, you know, well, for everybody, it's a two he wishes, but there has to be that up and down. So I think that's a very important topic to speak about that, yes, you may have a good job, you may have good wealth, okay, let's say you you earning, don't just blow your money or waste your money, think about putting your money somewhere where it can give you more money, because there may come a time where you need that money.

You know, the system is designed such that we go to universities in order to learn crafts, and jobs that fit into another person's dream, most of the or a lot, I won't say most, but a lot of the

degrees that are out there to do with business to do with, you know, management of business, etc. It's to put you into a slot of another person's dream that will help him build his dream. And that leaves that person with absolutely no idea as to what he's going to do when he's retired or laid off. So what they do they realize that this is a problem. So what did they do at some point, they made something called a pension. So now you contribute towards your pension. Right? Now, we've seen these pension schemes, which in and of themselves, has nothing to do with the person but is actually benefiting,

is actually benefiting the people who are controlling these schemes, because a lot of money is being poured, and they know into that pot, and there's a very small hole, that is literally, you know, this, this a few pennies leaking out of, so they have time to grow that wealth, benefit from it, enjoy it. And unfortunately, at times, even you serve it entirely. Now, this is not speaking for all systems, and all pension systems. But I've seen a lot of these are really a serious problem. For example, I'll give you a simple example those who have been contributing

in some countries of the world, they've been contributing, contributing for their entire lives.

The currency that they gave in 1970, or 1980, is was worth something, it was worth a tremendous value. And the proof of that is they bought the houses for 20,000 $30,000. Today, that same house is worth $300,000 $400,000. So yes, they may have been a growing of the economy entirely, etc. But at the same time, there was a huge devaluing of the currency altogether. So they instead of the contributions being grown, so to speak, it was actually devalued. So if that person now My point is that if that person had to take exactly what you were saying, take that money, invest it in something that would, you know, provided a small stream of income, that would have probably grown

much bigger in that 30 years, then the pension ever would have. So So I think we can encourage people, you know, of course, where people have to pay the taxes, it goes towards pensions, we're not discouraging them from paying that which is obligated by the law. But in addition to this, think out of the box, save some away for a rainy day and put it into some investment that will provide you with a small income and then diversify, you know, not only one, but several different streams of income, like you said, so if one stops, you've still got another one. They

know something interesting, I was speaking to one of the family members, and he was saying last year, we were sitting and talking and he said that, you know, I laugh at people who tell me that I'm investing money here, and I'm getting, I'm getting 5% or 7%, or 10%, when he was doing the maths with me. And he says that if you're going to buying and selling, buy from outside, import your goods, you can get 3050 100% even more at times. And this is by no means a far, far shot, or a long shot. So I think that's important. So basically, if you are somebody who is in a job with you, comfortable, you'd like it. We're not saying leave your job. We're not saying do something

irrational. What we saying is that there may come a day where your services are not needed. There may come a day where the whole currency changes. And as we know, the current economic system we have as you know, in fact, there's madhhab, so even Hana, female have Maliki method etc. In economics, this matters was this school. So to say you've got Austrian economics, you've got Keynesian economics people who follow john Maynard Keynes, etc.

It's important to read and just have a brief idea about this. And basically, they believe a lot in way this, the economy should be stimulated by a central authority. And as we know that, in and of itself, yes, there's been benefits, but it leads to the devaluing of money. So you might have $100 today, but after a year, or 10 years, today, you might be able to buy 10 loaves of bread, after three years, you might only be able to buy five, it's the same number. So that's also important to remember. So for those in a job, we're not saying leave your job, we're saying stop thinking of what may happen, people in 2008 will thought nothing would happen. They lost everything, they lost their

jobs, and in turn, because they were on credit, they lost their houses, their cars, etc. Also something similar. We living in currently, with the global pandemic, people are scared to spend and the money they call it the Velocity of Money, money is not moving from people's hands, from my hand to your hand to everybody else's hand, for example, fast enough. So this stimulus, the money that's been printed, yes, it's been printed, or they send you your paycheck, etc. However, later on, you would find that, as happens all the time, throughout history, inflation eventually takes over. Because now, you know, I didn't I always heard about inflation and how when the prices go up,

because there's a lot of money chasing a few goods. And if you think about it, and you look into it, you would find that, yes, that's common sense. It makes sense. Because let's say I've got this phone here, this is we've got 10 phones, and somebody is paying the minutes, the price, or the minute you have money, and everybody else has money, I don't have enough to carry on producing more phones. So what do I do, I raise the price to hold on to my stock. So more and more and more money, the prices carry on going up. So it's important to mention these few things as Muslims before anything else and as human beings.

Yes. Also sitting on liquidity, like you mentioned, you know, the value is established that the value of currency keeps going down, okay. So if we know that it's going down, then to hold on to cash would be a mistake. And today, it's not even cash it in your bank account, it's an amount which is just a figure to hold on to that would be a mistake because especially over the long term, because you're just devaluing left for nothing for no reason, letting it devalue. So rather than that, invest in Golden silver, invest in some business idea, let it you know, grow even though that may be a small percentage over the cumulative, you know, the cumulative effect over the X number of

years would be excellent, you'd rather be sitting with product in sitting with cash flow, or liquidity. As over the long term, I mean, cash will lose its value generally. And also when it comes to at least if you don't lose money, you want to have the same value. So it's important to mention that again, when we look at the world we live in today if we go into a bit more the doing part of it there's a lot of people following Mashallah, you will find that let's say you want to do something, you've got the internet, you've got a tool where you can reach so many people in the world, you can run an online business, you can be an influencer, as long as it's Halla, you can be whatever it has

to be, there's so much opportunity out there. Sometimes just sharing what you are passionate about, you can eventually build a business of that, I think, for people following especially if you're young, you know what, try it out without saying do anything haram or anything silly. You're saying you already on social media, you will have to go to some time or another to get some wealth, especially if you're younger, and you're able to understand how social media works, how example influencer marketing works, works, etc, etc, etc. try your luck, you know, you you might just be onto something and it will help you in the long term even in a you know, there's no harm in in

trying, you would regret if you didn't try when you had the opportunity then later on, you might get dizzy.

Yes, well I and as it is people are spending so much time on the phones on social media, they will building the fellowship, you know, etc. So if you're doing it, you're passionate about it. Why not use that platform to grow financially to grow in some way? It would be it would be lovely, you know, to be doing something productive on your phone.

You know, many times you find scholars telling people that don't don't engage too much on social media because it's detrimental for you. But then what alternative Have you given them so this alternative is brilliant, which is to say, carry on, you know, build what you're doing, as long as it's hollered.

But make it productive such that you're not wasting time for no reason, you've got something of value at the end of the day, your time invested was worth it. So I really like that idea and encouragement from you, you know, to the youth especially, you know, there's there's so much value on the internet, there's so many good things, good articles, good tweets, I found for me, my favorite app, I think, is Twitter. So much. I was telling somebody the other day I said that, eventually what they should do in university thesis, etc. I said, a lot of new knowledge is on Twitter, it's not in any books, you will eventually have to code some of these tweets, I think,

because you can't wait for that 10 years later, it might get into a book and you know, the academic way of doing things, yes, it may have its benefits, but it also has its flaws, and its problems. And I think it's important for us to make use of the resources we have, I'll tell you a personal experience of myself.

I told you in the last about three or four years, three years, roughly, I changed my whole environment, I feel like I went on talking about my online environment, I went from a place of where people would do it was a place of scarcity. People were not giving so to say people were not feeling that you know what somebody else can do? Well, with my advice, without me losing anything. So many times, we don't want to tell other people that you know what you can do this, oh, this is a good idea. Because we feel that it will be harmful for us. So we will lose. And you know, I changed my environment, I followed different people. And I found that from that my mind and my thinking started

changing, there's so much benefit out there, you know, you can take benefit. And then you also get to doing what you need to do.

You know, what would you say would be simple ideas for people to engage in?

You know, perhaps we can be a bit more specifically a way they can engage in these ideas simply online, start an online, you know, trading app, for example, get into trading, or what what kind of ideas would they be able to be able to engage in, in order to pull themselves into it to learn from the whole process, etc. As a start?

You know, to be very honest, I'm not into trading, and I'm not bringing anybody down who's into trading. But if you live, if you read the statistics, let's say after it's halala, whatever's halaal, etc, you would find that, generally, most people lose money, and they don't make money. And you must remember that there's two types of businesses, this or we could say business is of two types. When you want to make money this that way, you put your money, and then you hoping, so this, you waiting for the market to change or you're waiting for something to go up. It's completely not in your hands, whether it goes up with it goes down, you've got no say in it, then there's another

type of business way. Yes, it's more in your hands after the permission of Allah subhanho wa Taala. That's more buying and selling, that's more way you can give something of value. Remember, if you just trading and that, again, I'm not bringing anybody down. But if you have some money, I wouldn't. Personally I may be wrong, feel free to disagree with me. But I wouldn't really advise you to put your money into stocks or try to trade I don't know forex, even if you found a halal version of it. And there's a lot of, you know, detail into it, where if you're below 100,000, are you really trading forex? Or are you trading? Are you just getting exposure to price etc, let's say after all

that detail, and let's say it's halaal, you found a Hello alternative, you're not really going to make money. Think about it, if you trading US dollars and pounds, and it's moving only a few cents every day, and you're not trading on leverage, and you've got your $100 or $200. And after fees, etc. I don't think you're going to be making a lot of money. But if you come now, to

a business, this is one of the easiest times to start your own thing. We're not saying we're not telling everybody to leave what you're doing. Try something on the side. Again, now we can come to this business. There's two types of it. Somebody who's selling physical products. If you're an individual, let's say you're a student, you somebody in college, you don't really have time. Yes, you may find a good deal in your wholesaler you might find something from China you want to sell etc, etc. But remember, you've still got to put capital down unless you drop shipping. And then you've still got to worry about your fulfillment. So, for example, if you speak to China now people

in China they will tell you those who had websites and were shipping out of China because of the current pandemic, shipments are delayed for 3060 even 90 days, so a lot of people

lost a lot of money or a lot of people went out of business. The second best alternative, I think, especially if you don't have much time, is to think of selling digital products, online products that could be your ebook, or your course, and then going into consulting. Now the interesting thing I'll tell you, and for those who, you know, sorry to digress, but I think if you really want to have a good idea of business, online, online businesses, you should read the secrets series, it's by a guy called Russell Brunson. And he speaks about the.com secrets way, oh, you're in the internet part of it, how to get yourself how to do the actual building blocks. And the expert secrets is yourself

putting yourself as a speaker was the authority figure in the Traffic Secrets, which came on recently is how to get people into the one of the things he mentions is that when they used to sell before, so if I'm talking a lot, but no, is when when, when they used to sell before, right? They would sell products, let's say you've got this phone is $10. For example, after you paying for an advert you're getting somebody in. And let's say you sell it for $10. And your advertising cost was $5. So you're making five, right? But the advertising cost can go up as anybody who uses Google and Instagram or any social media knows that the algorithm changes, what was allowed today won't be

allowed tomorrow, etc. So you are at the mercy of these platforms, you're at the mercy of these platforms. So what he eventually says that what we learnt is if you want to have a good online business, and as any business in general, you must have a value ladder, a value ladder, I'm speaking in a lot of detail. But for those who are able to follow, you can follow on for those who can reference they can reference and you will find a lot of people do this. So you selling something, you get somebody in the door to your product. And they selling you selling this phone for $10. After that, it doesn't stop there. They say a buyer is a buyer is a buyer, which means if somebody buys

from you, once they more likely to carry on buying and buying and buying from you the only reason they stopped buying or they only stopped buying for two reasons if you insult them, or if you stop selling them. That's why if you look at things, somebody who's selling $100 product, there'll be people who buy somebody who's selling a million dollar product, there'll be people who buy not as many. So then they have a concept called a funnel, so to say. And this funnel, you will find that if I tell you this, then you would notice a lot of people who you following now, they will tell you, for example, like we giving you this free ebook, come and sign up, we're giving you this thing for

free, come and get it basically what they doing, they know that you currently belong on Instagram or Facebook, they don't have direct access to you, they want to get your direct email or direct phone number, so they can get to you directly. Right. So they will give you this thing of value in exchange for your email address. They've got a customer, they eventually will sell you slowly, slowly, slowly and you find an email sequence that you find they'll send you an email every day, or they'll have this and this and this. As long as it's something good as long as it's something of benefit, as long as you're not doing something to harm. You know what go for it as long as In fact,

if you providing a service to people go for it. Another thing is that roughly that they say the average, the average of one email is $1. So if you have an email list, for example of 100,000 people or 1000 people that started with the right audience, inshallah you will be making for every email you send $1,000, which is very interesting. I mean, you know, when I when I got into this about three years ago, and I read this, not only did I find the business side, interesting, especially the EAC, selling digital products, I also found the fact that a Dahlia, somebody who is calling to our last panel, which I think there's a lot we can learn from advertising, direct direct response

marketing, how to tell a story. You know, in the same book, he mentions how films are designed. And they say there's usually about seven steps to them. A film or story usually it first starts with the character, so you get to know him a little bit, who he is, where he's from, etc, etc. This character has a dream. And then on the stream, he encounters conflict, and then they take you through the whole journey. He says if you look at any story of any firm, you would find that that's how it's written. And that's how people

get you into the story. So, you know, after you finish this live go to some of the people you follow people who are selling things people who are telling you take this for free, etc, you will find Yes, you will not knowing that this is this is marketing. And if they're doing something that is okay, that's fine. But you wouldn't know that they are trying to get you from point A to point B and eventually sell to you. I give you another example. So there's some guy on YouTube, if you carry on watching, you'd find that he'll say that, okay, get this for free. I don't want to say exactly, because you probably know who he is. They say get this book for free, and you learn so many words.

After you sign up, your email is not taken. And immediately straight after on the next page, it tells you and you can buy the next book for $4 or $5. So think about it, how did he get you a bit, he offered you something for free, something you thought was valuable. 100 people who come in eventually, one or two or three will buy after they buy given goes, you know, they take you through the value ladder, cutting a long story short, I've spoken a lot. My advice to anybody who's young, anybody who's got no money, especially, you've got no money, stop thinking of selling digital products, there's no shipping involved, just don't cheap, the people that so there's no

there's no shipping involved, and you will do the work once you will do the work once and inshallah you know you can try it out. A lot of people asking about these books, I'll just get them one minute he can carry on.

Yes, Mashallah. Those who is just going to get us the books Hamdulillah, he gave us some brilliant insight. And I read these books, I read them, the older books, these are the newer books, but basically this one he speaks about. He speaks about setting up your page and the funnel and explains everything what it is, this one even speaks about you as a person, your personality, your character, etc. And this one speaks about getting traffic, they call it traffic, getting customers, etc. And the fourth book is just like a workbook, this just came out recently, or just now. And I have read the ebooks but I also thought I will get these you know, some of these books, the references made in

them another thing as Muslims, sometimes when we show you these books, or whatever they may be things that you don't agree with, you've got to be mature, there'll be a lot of things in your life that you will not agree with, you know, what you live what's against your deen or against principles and you try your best.

You know, a lot of people like to learn from trial and error. So they don't want to actually go in and study and research before they get into something they've seen halaal disease, okay. And they, they move into it and see the mistakes that they make, and they learn from trial and error. Now, with this, you know, I just like to give them a small piece of advice, which is invest low, start small, don't try to go too big, one time, because when you invest small, you lose small. So in order to learn you're going in the not to make a huge profit immediately if you do Alhamdulillah. But if you don't, then at least you've lost a very small amount and you've taken away a valuable lesson. A

lot of people I find especially like I like what you said about markets and shares and trading forex, etc. They have no idea what they're doing. They don't know it. And I'll be I'll be honest with you, like, for example, when it comes to trading forex, I don't know how to do it online. I don't know how to go about it, I can do it physically on a cash basis. Yes, but I don't know how to do it online. Now, if I go on onto these platforms and start to trade forex without having any idea as to how to do it, or to trade a shares, for example, I will do it very, very with a very small capital injection. Why? Because I know that a lose small and most likely I will lose 99% of the

time, people who have no idea what they're doing, end up losing, they just and to me to be honest with you, some of these people I think are just gambling at the end of the day, they buy something hoping that it will go up not even really realizing the true market value, what it can be what it should be where they are investing at which point whether they should be investing in stocks that will pay them dividends, dividends, or it's a stock that you know they should buy and sell later on. They have absolutely no idea and then they go into it and unfortunately they lose a lot of money and they're sitting with their hands, you know the faces in their hands. They don't know

regretting at the end of the day. So I love what you said about markets. Yes. You know, my father always tells me he says that I will never give my money to anybody else. Because I feel like I am the best person to invest my own money and use my own money. So why are you giving somebody else who you don't know what they can do and what they've got no real incentive, a lot of the times to hold it. Another thing is what you mentioned is something interesting where people don't know when this goes up, and that goes down, and they just throwing money. And it just now a few weeks ago, one of the big companies, they were completely bankrupt, they filed for bankruptcy hurts, and the share

price went up. And that's why if you read on Twitter, and you read in the news and read about Robin Hood, etc, that platform, you know, I read about how one of the youngsters now a few days ago, he he took a contract in leverage we had he had leverage this position, basically, let's say you've only got $100. So that platform will allow you and they'll tell you that

we'll make this $100 times 100. So it's like $10,000, you can get to $1,000 million dollars. If you profit good. We shamed the spoils. But if you lose, you lose all the money, you must pay us. So there must have been a glitch or something. And he thought he had lost on the trade. And he thought that he was in debt $700,000. And he then committed suicide, not realizing that after everything was done, and that glitch was fixed, he was actually in profit $16,000. shoe.

My last advice.

My advice to anybody who's wants to get into business wants to get into even business. Only take how much you can chew how much you can handle how much you can cover, don't get into debt, as we mentioned now with with online with Instagram, and that you can make a digital product without try and going to get money from everybody else. You know, my father always tells us again, he says that, you know, if you're doing a deal, especially with more than one party to that which you can cover, he said, Yeah, do a bit less. But don't be one now you owe this one money, and that one money and this one money and you can't pay, always be able to cover your position, don't take more than you

can cover or chew.

Yes, that's invaluable. That's brilliant advice. Because, you know, I've been in situations where you take money from someone in order to give someone else and this guy doesn't come through, you shouldn't have spent that money or you shouldn't have used it, you should have it with you in order to go and give back the money. Or say perhaps you put in two people together, and you try and make some money in between is this happens a lot of the time. So you cover that guy's position with your money, you should be able to do it such that you can cover the deal just in case it goes sour. So you've now taken on that risk. So if you don't have the money, you can become like indebted in no

time, beyond your capacity. You you've gone way out of your your your comfort zone, it becomes very, very difficult for you to now cover that transaction. So I I fully understand what what what is meant by this, you know,

I've seen many people doing it the other way, and then making mistakes and going wrong. Just recently, I was speaking to someone. And he's just you know what they call wheelers and dealers in Zimbabwe, right? It's just a Wheeler Dealer. And he just disappeared from the streets completely. Nobody knows where he is what's happened. And then later on, I found out that he owes people money. So he's gone AWOL, literally, he had to disappear because of the money that he owed. He seemed to be a trustworthy person. But it's possible that you know, a deal went sour, and he lost the money. He never really stole it so to say, and he had no response. So he disappeared completely. So this rings

true with me when you when you speak about this. You know what's also possible the you know this in business, whoever knows these good times, and there's bad times. And a lot of times people forecast according to the good time. So again, taking this phone, it's saying the good times, we can sell it for $10. And I buy 100 pieces with borrowed money.

I'm basing my forecast that I'm going to make so much profit on the fact that I'm selling this phone at $10. Later on, you may not know that with 10 of your phones, there may be problems with it. There may be somebody else who comes and flood the markets and prices go down to $5 where you're no longer profitable and you're not no longer able to sell and no longer able to cover your position. So a lot of the times we have

Find that

what, a lot of times what happens is, when people lose money, sometimes they completely dishonest, right? Other times they've only forecasted in the good, we only going to sell this for this much not knowing that the market changes or the whole business cycle changes a few months later, one year later. So that's also important to mention. As well, like someone's mentioning borrowing to start a business, they've mentioned from a bank, we don't want to let's take out that part of from a bank in order to make it to be on the safe side islamically would it be advisable to borrow to start a business?

Look, you know, your situation best you know, who you borrowing from a times your parents, they may be well off, and they may give you money.

Just you know, they'll say they boring to you, but they actually encouraging you to do something with it. And if you lost a bit, they won't mind. So that depends. But as we mentioned before you living in a time where you don't need money to start a business you need to put time and effort in. I was listening to somebody out there, I don't really want to mention his name. But

only because he doesn't have the cleanest of language. But he speaks about, you know, when you start an Instagram, and you want to grow, basically you want to sell products and that on Instagram, he talks about the

one $1.80 strategy. Basically, he says go you have a target market, let's say you're selling phones, go to the top hashtags, look at the top pictures, start putting your two cents in the comments, leave things so people will eventually look at you they'll find you get exposure, it takes time. It takes effort, it takes being rejected hundreds and 1000s of times. But what my point is that you can do it without borrowing money. Try your best not to borrow money. Yes, we're not saying it's completely not allowed. The messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam passed away and his demeanor, his armor, so too. So his, his armor was as collateral with was left as collateral with a Jewish man

because of some of the food he has taken from him. So I think it's important to mention try your best, especially the world we live in today, getting into debt, and people, you know, I was reading that what happens if everybody pays their credit card debt off, the system is designed such that if everybody pays their debt off, that spells total disaster they need to make you carry on going to debt further and further and further and further. So the system carries on. So they will tell you, okay, you know what you owe us 100,000 people tell you, you lost 100,000, you can't pay, Okay, you know what you do, we will give you so long, but pay us more or give us equity in your business. So

give us this, this this and especially if you can pay off, it becomes very hard. Yes. The other thing is that if you're borrowing, it should be in a, in an idea to do with an idea that is extremely viable, and you 99% sure that this is going to work. Because if you don't and you lose, and you have no way to pay that back, it becomes very, very difficult for you, you you suffer anxiety, you can suffer stress, you can go through problems, difficulties solely based on something that you never needed in your life, it was something over and beyond necessity, because you know, starting a business is not necessity, you can have a job and start a business in in,

you know, in conjunction with that job where you have a normal income that is coming in. And at the same time you started some business idea that is working, it's slowly growing, like you said, you need very, very little capital or no capital at all, to start to start a business today. So I think if you want to borrow Then be sure of the idea that you're doing. You know, it works. You've either tried it and tested it, it works. It's a system now all you require is the finance injection. And another way to do it would be to look for a person who has the capital, but doesn't have the time or the know how in business and you can ask them that look, I'm going to put my time in you put the

capital in let's have a partnership. But again, partnership comes with its own issues and problems. So you've got to be careful as to how you structure you your deals, how you go into business what you do. So kind of like something very, very, very interesting. Yes, I

Two things I can add to that. The first is, there's an interesting book called the Lean Startup basically by idea is that, yes, you've got an idea, test it out with an MVP or minimum viable product. So you find somebody wants to open a shop, for example, they then spend so much money on the declaration and the chair on the desk. And this, this, this, this, this on all extras, they haven't even tested by idea they already so much in debt, or they already have lost so much money. If you're able to test your idea, take it on the smallest scale possible tested idea works. look further. That's what all these big companies do, regardless of halaal. And how about the idea is

that we will make a minimum viable product that doesn't have all the extras of everything, extract something small, something that works, the bare bones office idea is good, then they go and ask for funding. So to say these companies who've been who've made it without funding, another important thing I could add or mention is that we spoke about learning from experience. Yes, you obviously should learn from experience in doing. But you must also benefit from those who have passed you in the same field, because that shaves a lot of time off your learning curve. So learning from this one, having made this mistake, this mistake, this mistake, if you're going to get to the answer five

years later, 10 years later was similar answer. start learning from them with knowing things, you know, hanging around with them, asking them questions, it might be online, you know, you the access we've got today, especially on a platform like Twitter, you would find that you've got access to some of the best minds, you message them, they reply to you, it's something amazing, something that I find that, you know, what we should make use of this guest is the I think there's people of different levels. So there's those who are, you know, sad and in a difficult place, and we make, ask Allah to help them. And you get to a place where, okay, you you consuming nice content. So you come

to social media to make you smile, and then, you know, to have a better day to see a few good photos to catch up with people. And then there's another level of people who are builders, people who are using these platforms to come with to, you know, see a new idea into reality. And I found that being in a community of Buddhists, you learn a lot.

Yes, you know,

something interesting is, I as much as there is a scope, this vast scope online, I actually prefer to do things physically. Why because, you know, you see, there's a joy that comes out of building something from scratch. And then seeing it now slowly begins, the wheels begin to turn. And now you reach a point where you no longer have to fuel it, it's fueling itself, and it grows. And it's actual physical, you know, products that you're dealing with, it's either buying and selling, or it's manufacturing, there's a beauty to then going out advertising and finding physical people walking into your door, there's something amazing, but at the same time, I understand the value of

the online presence. So you've got to have an online presence, and build that as much as possible. And I think there's a dangerous point in business where people have now built something of value, it's now paying you something it's the you know, the wheels are turning, and you reach a point where you become complacent, where you think that now I'm good, I'm set and that's very dangerous because now you've stopped developing, you've stopped growing, so to speak, you think that you're comfortable, any business that is viable, and it's you know, it continues in the long term is one that innovates and continues to change with the times so you should know the product that you're

selling what's coming next in the market, you should be you know, so to speak, I learned this from from your dad, you should be the leader in the market, you should know that like the future of the goods in your in your field, what you're going to be what's going to be sold in the future, you should be knowing all of this. And perhaps your market is not yet there but you should be the leader you should introduce it started innovate change. The minute you feel complacent or you feel comfortable where you are that I'm I'm okay. Now, I don't need to develop and grow from here, your business is actually at risk of completely imploding or, you know, losing total value altogether.

You know, speaking about online and offline, I thought about it deeply and I realized, if you're online, you or if you want to grow big, you will need that offline. And if you're offline, you will also need to get online

As you get bigger, they both complement one another. Another thing is yes, it's hard work when it comes to your business, what you might see people's, you know, fast cars, and especially those on YouTube, etc. And what you would find is that a lot of the times in the business, you don't know what goes on behind the scenes. So some of wouldn't say the down points, but some of the things you should be prepared for. If you have a job, for example, from nine to five and finished your home, your business now lives with you, literally, so to speak, it's 24. Seven, I think you can also relate to that anything goes wrong, usually, especially when you're starting off, you've got no

system in place, you are the first line of defense, so to speak, this, you need to be on the phone, you need to be doing this, this person thinks there's a lot more stress involved. So to say,

Yes, well, there's a lot more stress initially. But as time you know goes, you will find yourself able to employ others in certain positions, put them and offload that stress onto them, so to speak, offload that portion of work on to them. And that way you're able to grow. I'm against this idea of remaining a person who is extremely vital to the functionality of your business in the long term. Yes, you must be there, you must be overseeing things. But the more you have, the more you earn from this business, the more your money should work for you, rather than you working for your money. Because ultimately, if you keep working for your money, I know a man. And I've mentioned this

before, I think I know a man who's now been in a shop for 10 years, he started behind this shop counter dealing with customers one on one eye taking money and giving them receipts. And he's still behind the shop counter today. But it's 10 years later, and he's earned millions of dollars out of this business. He's grown phenomenally. My point is why are you doing that? Why are you still working for your money, you can easily employed people who will work for your money and put strict measures in place such that you minimize drift and you know, pilferage, etc, you just minimize it and reach that point as it is they are going to be stealing whether you there or not, you know, in

certain places, they don't care whether you will be watching them or you're not, you're going to be stealing. So you've got to minimize that theft. And try and employ people who can do that job. How hard is it to have a cashier at collecting your money and doing your your accounts at the end of the day by yourself. And then at some point you employ someone to do the catching up for you as well. And then you you look after them, you know, you make sure that you you look after them so they don't steal from you. So in order to grow, I think you've got to delegate that's the that's the word to be used as your business grows, delegate and then work on other ideas growing your business, that

particular business or growing another business. So as an individual, you grow as a whole, you know, not only

you you don't keep investing your time in the same small menial jobs that you started by doing at a time when you were required to do those, those jobs. Can I mentioned with and I think yes, if you want to grow, you need to decentralize power, so to speak. Yes, there's some people who just love

the work going to work what we may see as difficult that that what keeps that's what keeps them going everyday. They just love being there. So that would be a bit different. But yes, if you want to grow the small decisions, you've got to give it to somebody else to make somebody speaking about wealth being a test. Everything in your life is a test. Everything that you have a decision in is a test. That's why one of the pious predecessors he says that, when pondering over the story of Suleiman alayhis, salam, we had everything. Allah praises him and says, My lab and when pondering over the story of a new binary Salaam was tested with the most difficult of tests Allah subhana wa

Taala says me and my lab praising them both, and he says, I'm from the, I prefer to have alfia and goodness, then to go through difficulties, you will go through difficulty in life to a certain degree, wealth is a test but at the same time poverty is also a test, you having money or you having a business is a test and not having it is also part of the trial. So everything is as we mentioned before your knee is important and using your wealth as a means to attain janma

Yes, yes. Well, I you know, you have people this ideology, or should I say stigma that's attached to being wealthy or having money or

Pursuing money. And I don't think that in and of itself, it's a bad thing. If like you mentioned, the goal is the afternoon, and ultimately even pursuing wealth in order to make yourself comfortable, you've got to live you got to survive. So you want to live in comfort. Some people want to live in luxury. That's okay. So long as it's not distracting them from the primary purpose of life, which is the worship of Allah subhanho wa Taala. And returning back to Allah subhanho wa Taala, building for the RTR. If people understand this, then there's nothing wrong. Like you mentioned, some of us have a war, the best of creation after the MBA or a massage was they had Well,

this Nabeel Allah subhanho wa Taala. That you mentioned, he had, well, he was wealthy, and he was, I mean, he was powerful, so to speak. But that didn't distract him from his primary purpose, which is worshiping Allah some kind of water. I think on the same topic, it's important to mention that people are prices. And a lifestyle differs from place to place from country to country, what we may term as an expensive meal gear, for example, would be counted as cheap in Zimbabwe, because they, they are dealing with dollars, for example, if you had to work it out. So sometimes if you see somebody who may be driving, very good car, or they may have, let's say, you're going for

restaurant, for example. And let's say there's somebody who is posting whatever online, some people have different, extreme, so to say, some will tell you that, oh, how are you posting this, when there's so many people who are dying? And how can you eat a meal worth $10? Well, how do you know in that place, the cheapest meal, maybe $50, I once read that a certain place in Europe, the cheapest shirts are starting at $50. Whereas here or elsewhere, in the third world, you might find it at $3. So you've got to put that don't judge somebody else because of something apparent You see, or the car they drive or the way they dress, you know, it's the judgment is with Allah, leave Allah to

judge you don't judge your job as a Muslim is to have good thoughts of them, and carry on this some people. That's why it's also mentioned by a lot of the ruler. Yes, there is arrogance when it comes to wealth. But there is also a fake form of zorgt and minimalism, where people try to show that you know what, they close a tattoo and they don't have the best of things, and they don't dress in the best of way. And it's all a show. We're not saying everybody who does it, but it's on both sides of the spectrum. So don't beat one side only and think that Oh, only this other point I wanted to mention is that you can gauge every body according to one situation or circumstance that you may be

very passionate about that's going on in the world. You can blame this one who might have a business and who may go on holiday and say that how can you go on holiday when somebody else doesn't have food? somewhere else in the world? Yes, we feel it. Yes, it's, we try our best to help where we can but a lot of the times what we don't realize and that's one thing I didn't realize is that a lot of business people you see Mashallah, we have good thoughts often and they help a lot of people, they help a lot of people and you know, you might look at somebody who may not be or seem religious at all in their dress, or even in some of their dealings, they may be doubtful things. I found a lot of

them to help a lot of people.

Yes, Allah is sometimes the the driving force behind the goodness that we are engaged in you know, and we don't even realize it. Sometimes it is the mosque that you returned or madrasa that you go to. And the funding comes from a person who you've been criticizing all your life for and and we don't even know that this is the man that's been really the driving force behind the goodness that is there. So So panel i think is absolutely nothing wrong with having wealth or or pursuing wealth so long as we you know, tie it to that condition of never forgetting the era. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Is somebody saying about employers and employees definitely we agree with

you there that how can somebody go on the employer goes on holiday and they haven't even paid the employees? Yes, that's a problem. But that problem is tells me I've got a hard 25 seconds left I think we've gone for an hour today. Yes that is a problem but it doesn't make the whole all of them wrong. So to say Should I shala think we carry on maybe this conversation another day it will cut off in 10 seconds Rebecca love

Zola Allah here and it was lovely chatting to you. We speak to you next week inshallah. inshallah, inshallah. Maybe we carry on the same topic.