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Bismillah Hara Manoj Rahim. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Welcome and thank you all for joining us today for the fourth program of our series for the love of the Prophet so Allahu Allah, He will send them. In this seven part series, we will host conversations with scholars in commemoration of the life of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. For today's session, we are honored to have Hamza Yusuf president of zaytuna College. In this special talk he will discuss the Muslim prophetic tradition using imamoglu CDs famous Hamza, as an example of masterful versification and prosody in celebrating the beloved of God sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, please welcome President
Hamza Yusuf spelar Rahim Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Alhamdulillah. Wa Salatu. Was Salam. O Allah says in our rasulillah early he was a woman Wada
mvat Alhamdulillah. This court of law has handled to honor an anatomy he
lama niramit he, Allen bersedia, and he Daya Well, he Daya tuna Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam the greatest blessing that Allah has bestowed upon us, is a blessing of guidance, understand the purpose by which we were created. And the greatest means to that blessing for us as Muslims is our prophets a lot a cinnamon, so we're in the month that he was born, which is the first spring out of Oh, well, according to our scholars, there's some difference of opinion about which month, which day it was, but the majority believe that it was on the 12th and it's very interesting, the stars were aligned in beautiful men, as I said, or the mansions of sad, sad, sad, the Sara woods, it was
all sad, it was all joy. So today, I inshallah wanted to look at some of the poetry that our great scholars and others have written about the prophet to light a sinner, and also the importance of poetry in our tradition.
The prophets are largely ademas Selim was not a poet. He was accused of being a poet. In fact, the Quran in surah t as seen, says ma alumno shawarma in Valhalla. We did not teach him poetry, nor is poetry appropriate for him.
The scholars say that poetry is actually come out on Friday he sold it said it's it really completes a person's education. With the prophets Li set him though it was not appropriate for him because of the relationship between inspiration and Revelation. So according to Amir, Takada Raj is it in a very interesting book he wrote called him behalf and he points out that poets are often inspired and the things that they say are inspired and it's indicated in the sound Hadith that the Prophet Li said him said, in them in a Chateau de la hikma, verily in poetry is wisdom. And so, sometimes poets are inspired in ways that they don't really even understand their own poetry. In fact, very often,
Socrates stated that poets begin to sound foolish when they attempt to explain the meanings of their verse. When we look at poetry poetry is a very important part of the human experience. In fact, in the Koran, there's an entire chapter named after the poet's which is called Surah assura.
And Allah subhana wa tada only gives names to those things in the Quran,
that are given titles for chapters are due to the extraordinary reality.
So for instance, Benny issawiya, the 17th chapter is Benny Assad because
the Jewish community is an extremely momentous and important community and has been for
a few thousand years and continues to be so so although span with Tiana named an entire surah it's also called sort of the Isar. So it has to and the Assad took place on the 27th of Raja in
the beta mock this which is in Jerusalem. So Allah Subhana Allah says was short out ah we who homophile Woon as for the poets, those who are astray follow them. So it says in the Koran that the people that are astray actually follow poets, Adam, Tara unknown equally widing human having you seen them? How they stray in every VAT Valley? And it's interesting he didn't say The Loon
Yeah, hemo is a very interesting verb because it's related to love also hayam is one of the stages in Arabic of love and he movie if you use the preposition becomes that he's in love with somebody. So they, they in a sense, they're emotional and in fact shipped out in Arabic comes from the the, the word which means
feeling so the poet is somebody who's hypersensitive the shadow is the one who feels which is why shut out which his hair is called. shut out which is related to share the poetry because hair is it's you need us fine tactile sense to actually feel hair. So, and then Allah subhana wa tada says, What Antonia Puna mad if I don't and they say that which they do not do, which is very interesting also, because what is the use of Islam who, who was a really a lyrical poets, somebody who wrote very beautiful lyrics, and is actually in the songwriter Hall of Fame for doing that. One of the reasons that he said he became Muslim was from reading that verse, he realized that he that he was
showing this guidance, and he'd been talking about seeking and on the road to find out and doing these things. And here he was presented with guidance. Was he going to be like those poets that said, what they don't do was very interesting. So but then Allah subhana wa tada makes what's called an Istithmar or an exception in the Koran, Illa Latina and what a middle side he had, he was called a la ha haka here on one tasa Rome embody my lowly Mo, was a Adam, Allah de Navarra, Mo, Mo, condominium caribou. So then it says, save those who believe and do good works and remember a lot much and vindicate themselves after they have been wronged. Those who do wrong will come to know
what a great reverse they will be overturned. So there you have it, about the poet's. There are poets that say what they don't do. So very often they they speak the truth. And that's why so many poets have an impact on people because their words really do have meaning. And there is great wisdom in great poetry. I mean, there's a lot of bad poetry out there, if you can call it poetry. Some people in English it's called doggerel. But
if we look at at the poets, the shore era, in all civilizations, we find poets which is very interesting. So you have Hindu poets, you have Chinese poets, you have Japanese poets, you have native poets, you have the most primitive peoples often have oral traditions of poetry, the ancient Greeks had their poetry. So the Iliad and the Odyssey are foundational works in western civilization, and certainly extraordinary works of poetry. And arguably, you cannot have the civilization of Greece without Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. In fact, Socrates quotes Homer constantly in Plato's dialogue, so
the Arabs were known for their poetry, and they prided themselves on that, in fact, the Arab say that the shadow was there, it was the it was their deewan it was basically their history. They wrote their history through poetry, and a poet if he was born into an Arabian tribe or family. He, he was, it was hailed as a great victory. So you have poets showing up very young, the ability, the natural ability to do poetry, they did not learn prosody, they didn't know they had meter, and they had rhyme, what they call in our old and prosody. They had the the bar and the coffee, so they had the meter. And they had 16 different meters that they worked with, which is far more than we have in the
English language. But they used always the rhyme scheme was with the same
consonant or vowel at the end. So for instance, that the hum Zia, by mama boss ad is because it ends every line ends with a Hamza.
So the the poets in the jannetty period were extraordinary, and they reached their Pinnacle, right before the poron comes down. And this is actually a miracle of the Koran in the same way. And well not in the same I can't compare the two but if you look for instance, at the English language thing, English language reaches its Pinnacle with Shakespearean English. The English have not been able to surpass Shakespeare in in verbal prowess. And Shakespeare is writing right as the King James Bible is being translated. So the King James Bible is in Shakespeare in English. And and and it's a stunning
literary masterpiece really as a translation. So the Quran when it came down, these great Arab poets realized that this was something very different from what they were doing. Even though the jolly Arabs called the prophets Isom apart, they call them a shadow. But they knew it wasn't shared. And and so they didn't know what to make of it, but they knew that it was powerful. And because they rejected it, they attacked him and tried to find other ways of deterring
from him by saying that he had lost his mind on the lottery, but it was senemo hasha that he was a magician that he was casting a spell. And the proposal I sent him said, in the in the minute Banila Souder, there's a type of magic in eloquence. And so that's, that's obviously metaphorical. But people can fall under the spell of a great orator. And we have recent history to show that truth. So the, when the prophesizing came with the poron, a lot of the the poet's they were just overwhelmed by it. And then some of them became Muslim, the most famous one is the B. And the B. In fact, the prophet SAW said about the beat that he the truest thing that a poet ever said, and this actually in
the site, the true thing that repoed ever said was alleged collusion, mahalo lobato that, isn't it that everything other than Allah is is vacuous is empty is is false, that allows is Allah Huck. And when the bead became Muslim, he actually, according to the tradition, he didn't say any poetry after that, except for one line of poetry that he was, he was glad that Allah subhana wa tada Alhamdulillah he prays if Tini as
an actor say to minimalists, Islam, Mr. Bhalla, that I'm grateful to God that my time did not come in my death. Before I had put on the government of Islam, and after that he didn't he didn't say any poetry even though he was a great poet. And in fact I shall Delano, the beloved wife of the prophets, ally Sam, our mother and the daughter of Abubakar of the second Kate of the prophets, Eliza them, had her in his house, and she came in in her teens. She memorized over 2000 lines of poetry from the bead, which is quite extraordinary. That was only one of the many poets that she knew by heart because you grew up in the house of Abu Bakar. And Abu Bakar was actually a rally of
poetry, which means he himself has very little poetry, but he learned and memorized all the poems of the great Arab poets. And so he taught those to his daughter Ayesha, so she was a great rally of poetry. So the prophet SAW Isom his house had definitely had poetry in it. Now there is a hadith in which is motif upon an A, which means that it's agreed upon by imams of Bihari, and Muslim or the law on Hamas. So it's very strong Hadith, where the Prophet Li said him said that the onion Italia jofa Rosalyn, pay ha de highroller homonym Thalia Sherif that a man's inner should be filled with pass that eats away at him is better than he should fill his inward with poetry. That's very strong
Hadeeth. And, in fact, some of the otomo because of that Heidi's avoided poetry. But one of the most extraordinary commentaries on it that I've ever read was by the great Mauritanian scholar would may have, he was one of the great mohideen of the 19th century and early 20th century. And I actually studied with one of his direct students, great Sudanese share, which I read the motto with so I, I got in his chain, through that it's a great blessing to be there. But he has an incredible commentary on that he makes it very clear that the prophets Aysen was not talking about
poetry, in any absolute sense, what he meant was bad poetry. And what he meant was also
where you become so obsessed with poetry that you don't ever learn your deen. And this happens with people where they had they know all these poems, they memorize all these poems. They don't memorize any Koran. And the prophets Allah I sent him said that a person without poron is like a person. It's like a house. It's derelict. It has no nobody residing in it. So poetry is, is something that's very human, and it's done all over the world by many, many people. And the prophets, Isom did listen to poetry. In fact, what may have been mentioned that the Sahaba used to
use to candle yet the Nasha Dona Sherif into solo light ism. They used to recite poetry in his gatherings and they would recite poetry from janelia also, and then, in fact, Mr. Malik said, if people are having a conversation or they're
talking about poetry, and somebody comes in and says Oh, cool law, remember
Allah mo Matic said, the the ER amongst us never did that, like the best people amongst us would never do that, that the Sahaba used to engage in conversations they would talk about jatiya they would entertain themselves with poetry, even at best all day long. We used to say how to die in a shelter, he would teach Quran and tafsir. And then he would say, let's see the, the, the demands of the poets, let's hear some poetry. And we know that the prophet SAW some love the poetry of the salt, one of the great jolly poets, and he wants was riding on when somebody was behind him on the candle and he said, Do you know any poetry? And he said, Yes. And he said, he, you know, like, let's
hear some. So he resigned her line of salt. And then he asked him, he, you know, get let's hear some more. And he kept asking him until the man said, I had recited over 100 lines of poetry. And then the Prophet said enough. So this is a this is our Prophet sighs and he definitely enjoyed poetry. One of the most joyous things that ever happened to me was, when I first read out Hansa, her poetry, I actually wept. Because she was, she had two brothers saw him while he and they both died. And she wrote this really painful poetry about how broken her heart was, and the loss of these noble men. And, and her deewan has all of these poems about
her just this incredibly heartfelt grief. And when I read one of them, I literally just brought me to tears. And then I read later that the pro sigh Sam heard her recite poetry and he cried, so I felt Subhanallah 1400 years between me and the prophesies center. And yet what made him weak made me weep, it just made me so happy, that the same thing that made him weep, made me weep. And the prophets I sit down had a very sensitive heart. So he was he was affected by, by poetry and by words and and, but but again, our Quran is what of us is given now another thing was very extraordinary about the time of the Prophet I'm going to get to inshallah, soon to the Hamza, but one of the most
extraordinary things is that they had what what today is called, like a poetry slam, or a poetry battle, like you have these, these, these poets of spoken word that do these battles with one another. So when when, when Benny That and more Benny to mean came to the prophets, Li Sam, they came outside of his house, and they shouted, and this is revealed in Surah Taha gerat, which is the 49th chapter of the Koran. They shouted.
Oh, Mohammed, Dr. Mohammad Hello, Jelena. Lana, you know, come out, in the Medina, la Zayn, we're in the Manila Shane, like, our our praises good and our blame is bad. And the prophets Allah it is sometimes said from behind the hood, you're out from behind his house, he said that he called law. That's a law that's not you, the one whose praise is good and whose blame is bad, that's a law. And then he said men, meadow, Zan, woman, then Mahesh Shan, whoever God praises is is is is beautiful. And whatever God blames, is low and degraded. So, so then they said that they wanted to have a competition. So the prophets is called habitable space. Another lion who was called huge mass, he
was called Happy, Happy Rasulullah the orator of the prophets lies and he's very interesting. So how to be very proud man and very powerful man. But he the prophets I sent him called him and has sent even with habitudes called the Chateau Dora, Sunita, he was the part of the problem. So Benny to me brought their poets and then the, and then the prophesized him, brought his and brought his orator and his poet and so they, they basically the first they went first, and savage gave a better talk, then their orator and then Hassan Kane, and so their poet who was a club upright but no habits who's mentioned also, he has an unfortunate event at at Derby and he also Anyway, there's some interesting
Heidi's about him but he said, A Tina came a yachtie for NASA for Donna. Either Hall of hoonah and the current Academy. We're in San nasem in Colima, Sharon, what la Sophie are the Hijazi khademi we're in Atlanta la mirada ethically hauraton takuna be niched in, I'll be out of the hat me. So he he basically says, you know, we've come so that everybody knows our father our virtue, and even if they go against us when the virtues are remembered, in our also nasty we're the heads of people. You
every tribe, what a laser that he jesica that him and there's nobody in the hijas like that. They were actually from the niche, but they said there's nobody has like that and like art, right? What Nolan and Melba they nerva was something in janelia. They used to always when they had their battles, they would take NEMA. And then a quarter of it went to whoever was the chief amongst the tribes. And that's what in fact, the province I said, I'm actually when he met to me when he met me, my daddy, who had been a Christian before, he said, he said that you take the metal back, and that's not permitted in your dean. So that was something that generally people did. And so basically that
he's saying we get the metal bat like we're because we're the heads we get it in every battle, whether it's in the niche or into to hammer which is where the profit was so light Islam was from so then when he finished Hassan came and he said, Benny, that Eman left Haru in the farrakhan your Udo about and the decurrent Academy that he's saying like oh tribe of dad and don't boast because you're boasting will end up disparaging you when the the noble qualities are mentioned, have been to my Elena de Haruna, one tomo Lana Holloman benei they are in ohada me What have you lost your minds? You're boasting to us when you are our our wet nurses and our servants. So this was literally like a
poetry battle. And the Prophet permitted it. So this was something that the Arabs did, it's actually very interesting. It's too bad we don't fight like this anymore. Much better way of fighting. But anyway, they admitted the the need to mean they admitted they said how people could have gotten a subpoena your orders better than ours, which shall come of the romesha Arena, and
has sadly been with habitudes a very interesting person he didn't like fighting, which artists and poets very often are those type of people.
But he he defended the province ally Sit down. And there's a very interesting when I will soufiane had written some poetry against the Prophet, also cobbins O'Hair, who was the son of the great poets who had been at Soma. I've been working on translating his placida is amazing pissy about the war between apps and VPN. But anyway, Cobb
Abu sufian had written some what they call he jet, which is, is really poetry that
it's just attack poetry where you're really it's vitriol against somebody. And so when he did that has sent the prophets I sent him said, Why don't you defend me with your tongues to the poet so all the Sahaba that write wrote poetry decided that they would write things but Hassan wrote something where he said hello to Mohammed and well Egypt to an who were in the live feed packages. Oh, there's a hum Zia. So he said, you know, you have attacked our prophets a lot. He said, I'm Muhammad and, and so I'm responding, and Allah will reward me for that. hijo tamahagane Horan baronne hanifa Ameen Allah he she met to hold waterfowl, you have attacked somebody who is pure righteous. A Hanif
inclining towards the truth, the trustworthy of God, and his character is to be Noble. And then he said, a tattoo what is that a hoby coffin? What do you attack him in this invective? And you're not a cook for him? You're not at his stature. For shudra Kamala hated Kuma and Fidel, so your evil will will be
just the good I will ransom with the good from your evil for in Abbey while added to wherever the the earth the Mohammed and minquan we will topple. And then he says a just a stunning line of poetry where he says, surely my father and his father and my honor for his for the honor of Muhammad Sallallahu he said, I'm from you is a defense is very beautiful in Arabic. And when he got old, he lost his eyesight after the prophets lie, some had died. And he went to visit Ayesha and he had been involved in detail if he was one of the people he made tell about but he was one of the people that spread the false rumor about Asia. So he visited our mother is out of the line who and she he took
permission to come in, he came in and she without any hijab because he was blind. And and he she ended up honoring him. A Chroma two is in the rewire. And then when he left, somebody who was with Ayesha said
He didn't he talked about you with to in the hospital if he wasn't he one of the ones that was in that? And she said no. He's the one who said to in Abby, why did do whatever?
The Abdi Mohammed amin como
I want to do this. Again, it's just
so she forgave him because she said that line is enough to forgive any of his wrong deeds. Just to say that about the Prophet So, and then Cobb,
even Zuhair who was really an amazing
poet and he wrote terrible invectives against the prophets Elias and him. And then when the Prophet conquered Mecca, he was terrified that that there would be retaliation. And so he went to his friend, they said, No, no, just go to him. He will never turn away somebody who's repentant. And so Cobb wrote a famous it's called This is his posse that this where the bulk of that comes from and and he wrote a procedure begins bandits who add it's a very interesting procedure that's very famous. And he went in with a veil of face veil he telethon with his turban, because he didn't want the prophesied tend to recognize, and he said, the poem and the prophets is him accepted his Islam.
And it's become a very famous poem. But he
he that that the prophets, Isom gave him his border, which is like a cloak. And it became a tradition. And I'm wearing this because this was actually given to me by the great muhaddith in Mecca when I was in Mecca. Many many years ago.
He gave it to me,
Maliki was one of the sad that in Mecca. And he he gave me the it's called alpha Sherpa. It's like giving them
the board that somebody to encourage them. So the that's what he did with Cobb. Now, the board.
Maui, I did purchase it for immense amount of money, it ends up it's now in the top copii. In not in the top copy, but it's actually in near the top kopien msgid. in Istanbul, you can go see it, it's quite a stunning garment that that's been preserved for all these centuries. So the the powers are,
in the Islamic tradition are people that
are very often literary scholars and we have so many, many great poets. And but amongst them is the great poet
who wrote the the border and the Hamza, which is image of the Naboo Siri. Emmanuel bosetti was from the San Hadji tribe, which is a tribe there's a debate and Mahajan said there from the MSE from the the native peoples of North Africa. Some of the Sun Hagit claim that they're Yemenis. And I think probably if you did the DNA, you'd find that they were mixed. They have Arab and I'm as if DNA, in any case, he his family moved from Morocco to Egypt, he was living at a time when the Muslims were under siege, they were under siege from the Europeans, they were under siege from the Crusaders. And they're also he lived during the time of the invasion of the Mongol invasion. And so when you look
at his poetry, it's very important to understand that he was actually trying to, to really wake the Muslims up with his poetry, and that's why he has it's very powerful poetry. And it really had a huge impact on the the Muslim community at the time. So I actually had the great blessing of translating the border.
And I have a story that I told you, I think you'd probably find it hard to believe, but it did happen. Maybe one day I'll write it about just my own experience of some miracles that I saw in translating that text. And, and not in just one place but in more than one place. And in fact, when I when I, I had an extraordinary experience was clearly
it was just, there's no way it could be explained by material sciences or anything like that. I'm 100% positive about that. In fact, she could have been baffled was with me. So I there was an eyewitness to what happened but in any case, I will say and I usually don't like to do this, but
something very interesting happened the other day. I was talking with dear sister in Louisville.
Gray Henry who's just indefatigable, indefatigable worker for the dean, and she is the one who did the, the
Luma Dean for children's series that I've been fortunate to be involved in, but I was telling her that during the molded into tonight as the 12th of robiola, so we're celebrating the actual day, I was telling her that I was in England and we had during Roby at Oh, one, there was a Wembley and our dear brother,
flat nadie, who passed away like that hammer home, Allah bless him and Shaolin give him a high place. But I worked with him for many, many years in doing projects and things in England, and he was really extraordinary human being. But anyway, he put was one of the people that put this program together and one of the speakers was who somebody who's known as Abu Bakar, Sirajuddin are we known as Martin lings, who wrote the book, Mohammed, and he spoke before me. And then he left when I was going to speak, when he called me the next day to say that he apologized for not standing for my talk. But he basically, he said, he really wanted to hear it, but it was too late for him. And he
was in his 90s at the time. And he he actually passed away shortly after that. One of the things that he said to me, it was really extraordinary. So I'm telling this literally two days ago, to Ayesha gray Henry, I said that he said to me, that he wanted to mention, but he didn't mention, so I'm mentioning what he wanted to mention to the Muslim community. One of the things that struck him about the the Muslim community is that for centuries, since the beginning of this,
this amazing faith. The precise him has come to people in their dreams, in very clear, vivid dreams, where they absolutely have no doubt that not only is it a true dream, but they know that it's the prophets a lot he said. And he said he found that really extraordinary, that that that's, that's in our community. He said, I've never heard Christians talk about them seeing Jesus in their dreams, because he was a Christian who covers Islam. I just thought it really struck me when he said that. So literally, so I've I told her this story. And literally the next day, I got a box of books from from England.
And the book is called endless grace, dreams and visions of the Prophet through the ages. And it's a book of all the people that saw the prophet like him, I just opened it to imaam Abu hanifa, who was the Haydn's 767, was born in Kufa of Persian ancestor ancestry.
Abdullah, even Mubarak narrated that Imam Abu hanifa had a dream about the Prophet. In the dream, he opened the grave of the Prophet and organize the bones of the Prophet. He woke frightened and went to an interpreter. The meaning of the dream was that he mumbled our hanifa would devise a method of organizing the prophets religion. So that I mean, that's it. That's it, and that's from Abdullah Mubarak, a great mojado. So that's a dream that Oh, honey, follow them on your hat. I mean, that's quite sad. So anyway, the whole book is just dream. So I just thought that was so interesting, that I just been telling this person and then the next day, this or and this was literally yesterday. So
it's like, Subhanallah, it'll be an old one, in this book. And and then, the day before that somebody had sent me a text about a dream of the Prophet that they had had, which again, was really quite extraordinary. So May Allah subhanho wa Taala give us
the vision of the prophets Isom in our dreams, inshallah. It's a great blessing. So
one of the things about the poet's is that they have like zakat. And there's a Catholic in our tradition of the poet's is to praise the prophets a lot. So at least 2.5% of their poetry should be in praise of the Prophet. Now, one of the interesting things about Zakat is that you only have to pay to be able to do it. And many, many poets who were great poets actually complained of the fact that they were incapable of praising the Prophet that they just they did not feel that they could praise the prophets a lot he said him and so the, the great poet
even Jews and Kelby is one of my favorite scholars, who wrote a Tafseer called a to seal actually did some commentary from his tafsir. But I think he said one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in praise of the Prophet, he said, I don't want to empty their head Mustafa Pharaoh
duni pissouri and Iraqi ticker Menaka. B. I'm attempting to praise or I desire to praise, and most of the chosen one, but my inability to achieve that station is what prevents me. Woman Lee, the hacerle battery were bow Rosato. And who am I, to attempt to describe the ocean? And the ocean is vast woman, the BSR Hassan would kalakh Eb? And who am I to enumerate the stones and the stars? What about the fact that as soon as even lemma Bella that Finn met, he bought them Adibi, even if all of my limbs became tongues, even then they could not achieve the goal of praising him. What an akula Allah mean to Allah for alamut he lemmya blue, RGB. And if all of the worlds conspired together to
praise Him, they could not fulfill that obligation. For I'm sick too and who haven with aduba
Well, how often were alarmingly our fire identity, and so I refrained out of all, and out of courtesy, and out of fear and out of exaltation, of that most exalted of statues, the statue of the Prophet, and then he says, this beautiful line of poetry. What will work best suikoden canopy Bulava and maybe silence is eloquence. What about kurama and fi only atapi. And sometimes speech is only censored because of its lack of worth is very beautiful in Arabic. Anyway, that's what he says. So
he basically did not it that's the only thing he wrote about the prophets icims poetry, but he did and I will say this just out of the blessing of the day.
He did say this in his Tafseer
in the ayah, where a loss of data says we're in a coma Anna Hoda can alvine verily you are on a vast character or stature.
He says how the thin out of hood appear Rasulullah This is preys on the hood up of the Prophet Parata Ayesha Toro de la Anna, and I said his character was the Koran. And by that she meant that he followed the comportment of the poor on the decorum of the Quran. He obeyed its commands avoided its prohibitions, even best said his hook, his character was the dean, it was the shadow. And this is the foundation of character. And let me go into detail here. And then he says, from in
that deca and so amongst those qualities, the prophet had every virtue and every beautiful characteristic among them, he had noble lineage shadow for nessa will will fall upon and great intellect and sound understanding and immense knowledge and extraordinary modesty and immense devotion, generosity, truthfulness, courage, patience, gratitude, dignity, love ability.
What if he saw and he was economical, balanced, moderate, he was detached from the world, immense humility, he had compassion, a sense of justice, he forgave, he withheld from getting angry, he bore and forbear, he always maintained kinship bonds, and he was a wonderful husband in his home.
And he had immense
to be his his planning and his management. He was the most eloquent of tongues, and he had extraordinary sensory perception. He had the most beautiful form and so many other things. And for this reason, he said in Nima to attend Lima macadam, and I was only sent to perfect, noble character. So it's really quite beautiful. So now the border and the hum Xia. The border, came in omnibus bill said he actually had a stroke. So he was literally paralyzed half of his body. And he he, he decided to praise the Prophet. He was a great poet. He was very honored and recognized that his time is living it. Very interesting period. In in, in Egypt because they were under threat
constantly of Crusaders.
In the case of Cameron or Eamon come out who was related to
sala de nada UV.
They they were basically a scan the area had been conquered at one point and that's where he was from. So he was very aware of what was happening in the Muslim world. And he, when he had this stroke, he praised the prophets eyes. And he had a dream in which the prophets a lot, he said,
came to him, and he asked him about his casita. And then he basically recited in his dream policy that at that point, the prophesizing took his border, and he put it over him, and when he woke up, he was cured of his paralysis. That's, that's, we believe that that's a true story. There's people that have said, oh, there's lines in there that are incorrect. But if you go back to the commentaries and the greatest odema I mean, some of the really, truly greatest history of Islam, commented on the border. It's quoted constantly in all the books of, of Islam. After that, you'll find lines from the border, quoted, so if you go back and read the tough series, I think one of my
teachers Chef beja been Sadek, who's the cousin of chef Abdullah bin via the great also the scholar who's
from Mauritania, but chef Aveda was a amazing scholar. And I wanted to ask him about why some people criticize the board and he said madam, though, he said, they just lacked poetic sensibility. It's a beautiful poem. So he wrote the hum z, and I've been working on it. I've translated the board done. So my hope is to finish the hempz. It's It was a much heftier project, and I realized, it's got about 456 lines in it. And it's quite a stunning poem. In some ways, I think it's a it's a, it's greater masterpiece. It's not anywhere near as long as as I mean, it's not anywhere near as short, as the board does. So it's more
it's much lengthier poem. And so, but the board is beautiful. Also, they're both really stunning aspects of the, of the tradition. So he wrote this and I'll just quote a few lines from my own translation from from the beginning of it.
One of the things in there is that he he refutes the the Jews and the Christians because of that, what was happening at the time, so but it begins,
Oh, celestial one whose canopy has no challenger. They never matched you in your exalted pneus your splendor and your glory come before them. They only reflected your qualities to humanity, the way rock water reflects upon it the stars, you are the lamp light of every virtue. Other lights can only shine forth from your light, you possess the essence of all knowledge from the one who knows the scene among them Adams name.
choice for fathers and mothers and unbroken line were chosen for you from the store of creation. No period pass between God's emissaries but prophets gave good news of your coming.
All Ages, exalted in you and every era thanks to you surpass the previous one. From you into the world came one noblemen after another, you whose fathers were all noblemen, a lineage so exalted, that even the heavens reckoned due to its eminence that Gemini had bestowed its stars upon it, a necklace of such distinction and glory. And you you are it's unique in violet jewel.
a face like the sun shining forth radiating from you. revealed by a bright night filled with light. your birthright became source for religions rejoicing, a day of delight and flourishing. Distant voices heard but not seen one after another saying the chosen one is born. We are right to rejoice, Castro's pillars plundered. If that were not a prodigy from you, they would not have fallen and every Fire Temple became ruined and desolate, its fires being extinguished, the Persians water sources sank and vanished. Did they play some part in quenching their fires? For unbelief? Your birth brought a full prospects disaster and pestilence to blight its people. Anyway, it's it's quite
a stunning poem in Arabic. It's very difficult to do it any justice in English, but I will In conclusion, I wanted to
to recite a few modern poems that praise the prophets A lot of you said him.
I can find them here.
Yeah. The first one is from
dear brother of mine who actually really helped and I miss him greatly because I'd love his help on the the Hamza, but he's he was he was really an extraordinary poet. And that's somebody who's known as Daniel. Hi, Daniel Abdullah Highmore. He's He's unique poet. I don't I don't think anybody. There's nobody quite, he has his own genre of poetry. And I once heard the the translator of Rumi, Coleman barks, who, who did some really marvelous renditions of Rumi that became very popular, but I once asked him about Daniel behind more, and he said that he doesn't know anybody that writes poetry, like, like Daniel, and he said that he thought that probably down the road, people would
realize that later, what they had and that and that happens, sometimes, you know, people that are quite extraordinary in their time, they're not recognized and there's other people that are recognizing their time, but then they're completely forgotten. So it's these things are not in our hands. They're only in God's hands, but he he wrote many, many interesting poems. We used to debate often about what's called free verse and more traditional poetry I tend to incline towards more traditional poetry, but he was more in that tradition of free verse Mauritanian say when was it ever in slave that we had to free it?
But anyway, he free verse has its place and he was certainly a master of it.
But this is called not of gold, k n o t.
The Prophet salamati sinner. The Prophet took people of abject poverty, and strewed rubies at their feet. There was no glass in the profits windows for any brick to break. In each heart, he ties a knot of gold, whose two ends make eternities radiant, reclining figure eight gazed upon by God.
We can stand in the door he made in our being or stride through into God's presence.
The Prophet never rode out on his sheep camel, but that they longed for his return. sallallahu Sallam said that was by Daniel behind more. And I'll end this and then I guess we can have some questions is that the plan?
This is a poem that I wrote called springs gift because it'll be at oh well originally was in spring.
And so this is
my Zakat inshallah I envy the sand that met his feet. I'm jealous of honey, he tasted sweet. The birds that hovered above his head of spiders who spun their secret web to save him from his enemies. I envy clouds form from the seas that gave him cover from the heat of a sun whose light could not compete with his whose face did shine so bright, that all was clear in blinding night. I envy sightless trees that gazed upon his form completely dazed, not knowing if the sun had risen, but felt themselves in unison with those who prayed and fasted to simply because he told them to with truth and kindness, charity, from God who gave such clarity, His mercy comes in one he sent to mold
our hearts, more heaven bent.
I envy all there at his side who watched the turning of the tide, as truth prevailed and falsehood fled, and hope restored life to the dead. Men and women through him found grace to seek together God's noble face. I envy the cup that gave him drink his thoughts that helped us all to think to be one thought that passed his mind, inspiring him to act so kind. For me, this world is not one jot, if I could simply be a thought from him to God throughout the ages. As revelation came in stages, I pity all who think it odd to hear him say there is one God or he was sent by God to men to hone their spirits acumen. It's pride that blinds us from the site that helps good man to see his light.
He taught us all to be God.
slaves, and he will be the one who saves humanity from sinful pride. Mohammed has got on his side, so on this day, be blessed and sing, for he was born to grace our spring with lilies, flowers, life's rebirth in a dome of green, like his on Earth. So that was that was my attempt at cycads. But I think what you meant to say said was, was absolutely true. We could never say enough. I mean, one of the miracles I think of the prophets a lot he said him is that his name is Muhammad, the praise one and here we are, I'm, I'm a son of the state of Washington. My ancestors came from Ireland, they were great. And Greece, they were great patrons of the Catholic and the Orthodox Church.
And here I am praising the praise one Muhammad a lot he said, I'm so these are Signs for the people that can think and reflect and
the Christians always are amazed at the inability of the Jewish people to see Jesus.
And I, I concur. But Muslims are equally amazed to see the inability of the Christians and the Jews to see Muhammad, although I will admit that the Jewish tradition actually acknowledges his his his prophecy, and increasingly you're seeing, I mean, they don't, they don't, they're great rabbis recognize that he was a providential vehicle of God, bringing the truth of the unity of God and this is very clear in in the amongst the great rabbis of the past.
In fact, I know one of the rabbis who I've known said to me in,
in our lobby once he said, a shadow Allah, Allah, Allah, Masha, Allah, he said, I genuinely believe that's true. And I said, so so you're a Muslim. Now? He said, No, I'm, I'm gonna stay with Moses, but I know the Prophet is a prophet. And I think there are, the Koran says, they know the Prophet, civilize them, like they know their own children. So
they do acknowledge that, and then with the Christians, I think, partly, it's just history, we've had an unfortunate Cold War for 1400 years. And, and, and, and, but there are many Christians who recognized the extraordinary profundity of the Prophet and one of them is Dr. Anna morlin, who inshallah we're gonna have a conversation with her. She's a Catholic theologian, really extraordinary intellectual,
and a friend of Muslims, who wrote a very interesting book called Ahmed reconsidered. So ob will talk with her about that. So are these the questions?
I want to acknowledge that our brothers Harun and name who are in the background here doing all this hard work, but they've been working incredibly hard for the last few weeks to make sure that these events go as smoothly as possible. And so please pray for them for their families. We had a wonderful talk from Jenna, her runes, extraordinary daughter who's graduating from zaytuna but she was one of the people that really made us proud. So are there any particular works that she Hamza recommends for learning English prosody, and Arabic out old? Are there any works of poetry he recommends in both English and Arabic? Well, that's a really good point. prosity is actually not
that difficult. They say it's, it's, um, it can be learned in a month. But it'll take a lifetime to practice it. That's something that Arabs say, you that lymphie Shahada, your public see the heart, you know, like, you implement it for over a lifetime.
There are some good books I would probably recommend Mary Oliver's book rules of the dance, I think it's called. It's a very good short book. I mean, I have several books on prosity. My father actually wrote one that's out of print now, but I'm hoping my sister was going to reprint it, but I'm hoping to get that back into print. So he wrote a really nice one on what's called the iron pentameter. It's actually a commentary on a didactic poem from Elizabethan English by George Gascoyne, who my father was a scholar of Shakespeare. So I grew up with a lot of poetry. But the in Arabic out old is they're very different types of poetry, I mean, not very different. They're
extraordinary parallels, but they're there. The difference is, Arabic is is much more like Greek poetry for people that have a background. Greek poetry, like if you look at the hex amateur of the Greek line that Homer uses in, in the Iliad or the Odyssey.
It's it's basically it's like a long short
As long as or short, long or long, long short like that, as opposed to the accentual poetry that we find in English poetry. So ours is much more it's based on on like the, the I am big pentameter, where you have, it's, it's down, down, down. And so you have, you know, you have dimiter trimotor tetrameter pentameter is different beats that you have in each one each foot so you have like five feet in a pentameter. So, to be or not to be that is the question. So, so Shakespeare uses mostly I am big pentameter. He uses blank verse. So it's tricky because I have pentameter is the way we actually speak. So it's very natural. And so some people don't even realize that Shakespeare's plays
are mostly in in I am big pentameter, because they're blank first, he doesn't rhyme things, although he was a brilliant Reimer.
So, I would recommend that just as a start, I mean, it's not a difficult book, but it'll really give you the rules of, of the dance. So and she is Mary Oliver is one of my mother's favorite poets. She's, she's pretty remarkable. She passed away not that long ago. But she was a remarkable modern poet. In terms of Arabic. I mean, there's, there's a lot of books on out old.
The best thing is to memorize a lot of poetry. Although I would say after reading that Hadith must have an idea. If you haven't memorized a lot of Quran, I wouldn't, I would do the Quran first. But memorizing poetry is very important for children also gives them facility with the language. What are the types of poetry that are frivolous and not beneficial?
You know, I mean, Ogden Nash,
you know, so,
you know, like, the purple cow is very funny poem. I mean, there's a lot of silly poems that are written.
I mean, probably the entire corpus of The Beatles lyrics, which unfortunately, I have more than I want, in my head. Thank Dylan was probably more interesting. So I did memorize a lot just growing up and listening to that. So, but there's also great, great poems in English.
There's a lot of silly poetry, though.
So are there any scholars who have written commentaries on the Hamza? I mean, many, many scholars have written commentaries on the Hamza, I mean, I have one. Let's see. I didn't bring it.
I mean, the most famous one is even hijab, that hate to me wrote a very extensive one, my own teacher who gave me jazza, an honorary doctorate from was the was the president of zaytuna College shadow the knife are a brilliant scholar, he wrote a commentary which I have
Cheb Novi wrote a commentary, there's several common items. He has a lot of commentaries. Even he wrote extraordinary commentary on the border, the border has
many, many commentaries, that the chef has to have advice for those who struggle to be moved by poetry and who perhaps lack appreciation for it. Is there any way we can increase our love for language in general? I mean, I think,
you know, there are definitely some people that just don't get poetry and, you know, it's, it's just part of life.
I think you can learn to appreciate poetry. Poetry doesn't come easy. And poets tend to they don't make things easy for you. There's a lot of people that are bothered by that. Well, why doesn't he just say what he means? But they, they will they want you to work for it. And and sometimes, when you do
the when that aha moment comes, it's it's quite stunning. What can happen. I've had real epiphanies about, I mean, a poem that I memorized many, many years ago, which is Robert Frost, about the two woods to Two roads diverged in a yellow and Sorry, could not travel both and be one traveler long I stood.
I learned that many, many years ago. And, you know, maybe five years ago, I was walking in the woods with my wife and I was reciting that poem. And I really felt like I understood it, because I read a whole book called A commenter on that poem, because that is the most anthologized poem in America. And, and that is the number one loved poem by Americans consistently. And it's a totally misunderstood poem, but I really felt like I, I understood it. So, I mean, that's an example of thinking about a poem for a very long time. Now, there's also in the poetics Aristotle divided
epic lyric and dramatic poetry. So shout out in Arabic is very specifically what we would call verse in English poetry is not limited to verse.
And so that that's an important distinction. So employess is a Greek word that really is about, you know, it's the product of making something. So it's a creative enterprise. But
Aristotle wrote a book called The poetics. It's very short, but it's an extremely difficult book. But in there, he's he says that there are three types of poetry epic, and that would be an example that would be like,
it would be like the Iliad, the Odyssey. And also, Milton tried to write epic poetry and in Paradise Lost.
It's been very difficult. We had one Joe Barlow was an American who tried to write an epic poem. Columbia had failed dismally. epic poetry is very difficult to write. So obviously, Dante's poem is reflective of an attempted an epic poem. So and then there's lyric poetry, which which which is much shorter, and usually sung with the the layer, which is the liar the, you know, the, it's like a early guitar. And then and, and then there was, this is, you know, in Aristotle's iteration, I think the Arabs have a couple of different ways of looking at poetry but and then you had dramatic poetry, which was like escalators and remedies and Sophocles, and that that would be in the dramas of
Shakespeare and certainly of late people like George Bernard Shaw is probably the last really, truly great, I mean, not of the level of Shakespeare but but a serious playwright. And then you have people like Eugene O'Neill, painter and others in the English language.
Those three forms have not disappeared, we would call epic poetry now novels. And then lyric poetry would be the songs and and there are some stunning songs. I mean, an example of that would be like the stable song by Ivan Ivan Ivan as a cause I think is I can't remember his name, or like something like the Avett Brothers. No hard feelings. I mean, those are
stand on their own without the music as as lyrical poetry and certainly Dylan did that. I think some like people like some great.
Also some of the I think really good spoken word would be considered some.
Amir saw a man, I think that is that it hasn't. I mean, seriously, man that I heard him recite.
Once that, and I just felt Wow, I mean, he's a poet. I think we our own brother harpoons.
got wonderful lyric talent. So the poets are around, you know, there's a whole genre of cowboy poets like, so even the tough guys write poetry.
In fact, cowboy poets, I mean, really are tough people, but they
scratch away at night. So.
So and then love of language. I mean, part of it is, is actually learning language learning grammar, learning rhetoric. I mean, these things are very beautiful. And
you know, once you once you learn, like words, I mean, words are just stunning. And learning new words
are, it's, it's wonderful to have words to express yourself with. And one of the things that I was very interesting that in, in,
in antebellum America, it was illegal to teach slaves grammar, but you can actually teach them to read,
you know, just so you could like a grocery list or something like that. You couldn't teach some grammar. And it's very interesting fact. So, grammar is really, really important. And we're a grammatical civilization. The Muslims were just grammar was so central to our civilization. So it's very important to learn that. What is the Jake's favorite piece of jolly poetry? I mean, I'm gonna save me a salt because that was the prophesies his favorite poetry. I do love. I was at once in a car with Mahmoud land who had just become Muslim. And somebody offered him a date and he said around like dates, and he said, Oh, the prophet love dates. He said, Oh, I love that. It's and he took the
date. You know, I just felt like there that's, that's a snob.
So, I love
you know, a lot of the
great poets. I mean the beach certainly is amazing. I love amo film is amazing i love i really like some of the outlaw poets. They they were very interesting characters.
And, you know, their cultural arasaka League. They were like, Mumbo T and they were like Untouchables. So they got thrown out of their tribes, and they wrote some stunning poetry, and very revolutionary, they were kind of these
revolutionary poets. And then I certainly I think my favorite of all the the seven while apart. Is,
is so here's an episode. I mean, that, to me is a stunning poem. What are the benefits of the recital of the border?
The border is it's just a great play. It's Sierra, I mean, you're literally learning Sierra with the border. It is it is a poetic Sierra. And and it's just amazing. There's great blessings that Muslims have been reciting it for centuries, share a moment had that.
Or himolla, one of the great Balawi scholars who spread Islam throughout East Africa, he used to go in inland and and go to these villages where the pagans were and he would spread Islam amongst them and he would bring like boxes of robes because a lot of them were basically naked. And then when they would come Muslim, he gives them robes. But he told that I was with Dr. Ahmed Abdullah farrokh. And Dr. Abdul Hakim winter and he told us that there's a line in the border. That one went to the rasulillah he nosara to Intel how it was to be a Jammie Hajime which means like, if you if you it, whoever takes his victory with the prophets allies that I'm even if he meets lions in the jungle,
they'll withdraw. And so there was a Indian
student who had a share. And he had to walk through the jungle and there were lions, or tigers in the jungle. And so he asked him for something for protection. He said, just just say this line from the border and and the lion will leave you alone. And so he was walking home and suddenly a tiger came. And he got so scared, he forgot the line. So he just said, border Hey, border, hey, and the lion left him alone.
So anyway, it's it's a beautiful thing. What's the origin of reciting synonymous motives? Is there any specific chain going back in time that the molad is is been set celebrated throughout the Muslim world for going on 700 I go over 700 years. So a buffet of Deen Egyptian ruler really instituted it.
And it's a national holiday, I think in almost every Muslim country there there, there are a couple that maybe don't celebrate it as a national holiday, but throughout the Muslim world that have sanctioned it, there's a very slight minority that do not approve of it. But it's it's obviously there are a bit errors that can occur and things like that. So that's another thing. And you have to you know, talk to sound scholars that you trust about that. And if people don't want to do that, that that's fine, too. We were of if TDF is autorama. And but we should all celebrate every day that the prophets isin was born. I mean, if you don't, if you're not happy that he was born, then you're
not a believer. So that's really important. So I wouldn't say ever something like I don't celebrate the moment No, we have to celebrate. It's just if you don't actually do anything specific. On that day, that's fine, but you should celebrate the fact that he was born. That that would not be good if you didn't. And then
in terms of disrespect to the prophets, Eliza, I think it's really important to remember that the prophet SAW the lies of all people was the one that was slandered constantly was attacked constantly, the most wretched things were said of him. And in in Mecca, he completely
just showed immense forbearance there was no state. And so Muslims are obliged by law to obey the laws of land. We do not believe in vigilante justice. And and so
you know, unfortunately, there are going to be there's so much online. I mean, just don't go online on these websites where they I mean, the things that some people say about the prophets, I send them there were five men that were called the mockers, cafe Anakin.
Desi in the Quran says all of those people had terrible
ends, they really did. So I would just leave these things to God. It's not our business. We're not in any power. And and what happened in France? I mean, I think it's horrible. I don't know why somebody would show high school students, I think there were high school students. I don't know why anybody would do that. There are many ways to show freedom of speech. You don't have to show things that mock other people. I mean, if he showed, for instance, anti semitic drawings, there would have been an outrage if he if he showed
black drawings of black people caricature like they used to caricature them I'm in the horrible Jim Crow is called Jim Crow from a character called Jim Crow. And anybody that would promote that today would be seen as a racist and would be condemned. And so I think it's very important that we just recognize that these are very low people. And the Quran says way the hotma Johanna para Salama, you know the way battle rock man illenium Shona added are the hona with a hardmode, Johanna pero. Cinema, this, the servants of the merciful tread lightly on the earth. And when ignorant people speak to them, they just say peace.
But, look, there are cultures. I know, just south of the border. There are cultures where, you know, if you say something about somebody's mother,
you're going to get in a fight with them. You know that? I mean, these are cultural, that have nothing to do with Islam or anything there are people are very sensitive to certain things. I mean, we know that I think there was a soccer player who the Italian player knew exactly what to say to them. He was playing for the French team. And he said something about his sister, and he ended up head butting him and got kicked out of the game.
I think we need to read more stoic tradition and look at the syrup the Prophet size and how he dealt with these people. They call they called they attempted to denigrate the problem by calling somebody mu them which is opposite of Muhammad. And in the saya Hadith, the prophet said, isn't it wondrous how Allah has diverted their tongues from me, they're talking about somebody named Muslim. And I'm Mohamed, so they're not even talking about me. These people aren't talking about Mohammed, they're talking about somebody named Muhammad.
Right, or however they pronounce it, there's something about somebody else. He's not our Prophet. And anybody who says those are pictures of our Prophet is a cafe.
If you say those are pictures of our Prophet,
whoever they're denigrating. That's your I mean, that's not the prophesize it's just somebody's imagination. And they put not Mohammed meme meme that they just put whatever they put, m o h, a m Ed or something that's not our profits allies. In terms of Muslim countries, that's another matter because they have state authority and, and they can prosecute people for doing those things. But here in these lands, we have to obey the law. That's the shediac if you go outside of the law, you're disobeying Allah and His messenger and it's as simple as that. And but unfortunately, this time we're living and don't let people you know, try to they that's what they want to do. They want
to rile people up sunsoo in the art of war says, you know, anger your enemies and send them into disarray.
Alhamdulillah May Allah bless
this, this evening, may Allah subhanho wa Taala and sha Allah bless all of you may Allah put love of the prophets lies him in our hearts,
put in contempt of Hebron Allah to be only bucola sake, if you love God, then follow me and allow will love you. So we love our prophets allies and we should follow him do our best to follow his Sunnah. shala I hope you continue to support those of you who are supporting if you're not, I hope that you'll think about supporting us we have a 12,000 strong campaign even if it's $1 a day.
You know, we have people from some of the prisons that send very small amounts, it's really heartwarming, whatever you're able to do, and we'll continue to do what we can to provide
the blessings that have been bestowed upon those of us here, whatever knowledge we can impart in Allah subhanho wa Taala forgive us if we said anything incorrect. No, no.
no desire to offend anybody. Allah subhanho wa Taala unite our hearts unite the hearts of believers everywhere. Make us lights in this time of darkness. Make us healing in this time of sickness, make us warmth in this time of coldness malice.
panel attallah illuminate our hearts and open our eyes open our ears, may he purify our tongues. May He
give us photo hat in our intelligence, may he make the Prophet slicin most beloved thing in our hearts may or may he inshallah give us visions of the province lies to them in our dreams, and may He, on the day of judgment, may we cross the Surat easily with with the prayers of the Prophet sighs Sam Selim Aloma, Sedna mallamma salaam, may he greet us smiling? May He give us
his a drink from his home from his basin? And may He always be
the spring of our hearts? May the prophets Allah light is that M be pleased with what we said here tonight in Sharla, and may the salaams that we give him be delivered to him with our names and with who we are, and may we be recorded in the record of the angels? May Allah subhanho wa Taala inshallah, forgive all of us our sins in these, these latter days. They protect us from the Antichrist, where he remove any of the evil that the Antichrist and the anti christic tendencies of this age present to us. May Allah subhanaw taala inshallah illuminate our hearts so that we can see the truth of the time we're living in. And we can go back to the book of Allah, and to the Son of
our beloved messenger, that he unite our hearts. May he keep our tongues restrained from speaking ill of one another. And may He guide us to what's true. What's eternal? What's forever. Apolo Cody ha That was tough for a lot Hollywood. What do you say? See me that Hamlet was solid Amata Sina Mohammed tsaatan tangina be humming Jimmy. That was top of the Atlanta we had Jimmy hija was gonna be humming Jimmy is a photographer now behind the Ghana Rashad Portobello wanna be upset it man Jimmy are
mad, but it was it was sent him to Sema, so why not pick up the
phone was Sarah mononymously