Thank You For Supporting us – Our 6 Months Update – Including Q&A
Channel: Hamza Tzortzis
Episode Transcript ©
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Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim in Alhamdulillah wa Salatu was Salam ala Rasulillah Salam alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh brothers and sisters and friends and welcome to tonight's special livestream, because we're going to be talking about us sapience Institute. And many of the members and personnel of Sapiens Institute are going to join me very shortly. And what I want to do now is really talk about our story. So far, this story so far, because the main objective of today's seminar or rather live stream, I'm saying seminar because I had a seminar just a few hours ago with Dr. Suffered Choudry Alhamdulillah, that went really well. So the main point of today's livestream
is to talk about our six months update, and to say thank you to say it was awful, I have to say me, Allah subhanho wa Taala reward every single one of you for supporting us and for trusting us, and for facilitating this noble work. So as part of the management team is our responsibility to be authentic with you to have integrity to be transparent, and to keep you updated. And we felt a six month update was very important. And I want to tell you what we've done so far. But before I do that, I also want to talk about and to remind you about what Sapiens Institute is all about. So brothers and sisters, all we're going to be covering today is before we get everyone on board and to
start discussing with the team and answering questions, why I want to cover is why Sapiens Institute just to remind you why we are here, what is the why behind the this organization. Also, I want to talk to you about the need. That was the basis of the motivation of the mandate for why we we decided to create Sapiens Institute, I want to briefly remind you about our vision, our strategic focus, and to quickly go through what we did last operational year. And what we promised this year that we're going to achieve because our operational year brothers and sisters is from May to April the following year. So the six months update is really updating you on May 2021, to the end of
October 2021. And also, what I want to cover is not only what we promised you, because in Ramadan, we promised you that we're going to achieve certain projects and deliverables. But I also also want to talk about our progress so far, I want to talk about the progress that we have achieved so far. And talk to you a little bit about our processes and procedures for you to be updated on our operations. So without further ado, let's talk about the the really important question for us, which is why sapiens. So what is our vision and strategy? Well, brothers and sisters, just to remind you that we have to realize that the kind of environment that we live in at the moment is that we have
intellectual challenges and obstacles, okay. And these intellectual challenges and obstacles for many reasons, one of them, including social media, did not only exist in the kind of ivory towers of academic institutions. So the kind of ideas and concepts and philosophies that challenge our Eman that channels our faith that changed the deen of Islam. And also these types of philosophies and ideas that prevent the dowel from flourishing, they put obstacles to the dour. They've been they've been filtered down to almost every level of society. So from a kind of strategic perspective, we need to adopt a strategy to provide a robust response at an academic level, but also at a popular
level and even the levels in between and Sapiens Institute has adopted a vision and a strategy to solve this contemporary problem. Now this is also motivated by the book of ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada there are many verses that motivate this, for example, one key verses in chapter 25 Verse 52, Allah says and strive against them with it, meaning with the Quran, a great striving, Jihad and Kaviraj This is one of the great struggles the great striving to strive with them, the people that we're striving against, with regards to Dawa with regards to sharing and defending Islam. strive with them with it be the Arabic is be with it, meaning the Quran. And Allah describes us as Jihad and Kaviraj
a great striving. Now, one of the well known scholars of
Assam, the 14th century theologian and scholar, Eben Pagan, he said This means that the great striving, the great struggle is using the arguments of the Quran, he is using the concepts and the ideas of the Quran, to actually to use that to defend Islam and to educate others on Islam as well. So that's one verse or many verses that are part of the motivation for why we are here Sapiens Institute. So following on from this, before we talk about the vision and the strategy, it's important to talk about the need, because we have to realize that Alhamdulillah there are many good institutes out there, across the world, individuals and organizations that are doing the work of
Allah subhanho wa taala. They're doing great work. And as a result, there's lots of good research, there's intellectual academic resources available for everybody, right? However, there is a gap. And part of the kind of sapience approach is not to reinvent the wheel, if something good is happening, you make dua for it. If it requires replication, you replicate it. If it doesn't require replication, you support it, directly and indirectly. If there is something that is unhealthy in the dour, then we want to make it healthy. Okay. And we do that in various ways. And also, if there is a gap in the data, we want to fill the gap. So it's very important that we don't just do things for
the sake of it that we are strategic, we do things so often with excellence, that we want to worship Allah subhanho wa taala. Sincerely, and we want to do things by asked ourselves the question, what does Allah want from me? In my particular particular context? What does Allah want from us as an organization? Does Allah want something to be replicated? Just for the sake of it, even though it doesn't require replication? No. Does Allah want you to make the dour and intellectual and academic sharing and education of Islam to be more healthy? If it's unhealthy? Yes, so we should strive to improve others improve other organizations and use different ways to achieve that. And obviously,
the means that you use are going to be conducive to the positive objective? Does Allah want you to fill the gap in the Dow if there are things that are missing? Does Allah want you to fill the gap in the dour? Of course. So it's not just about doing the same thing all the time, or just reinventing the wheel, we have to be strategic? And we have to understand that we're doing this for the sake of Allah subhanho wa taala. So we should ask the question, what does Allah want from me? What does Allah want from us? And if we apply this kind of what we call a health check analysis approach to the dour, then, if we are sincere, then we're going to do the right thing, which usually means
support those doing the great work. And if it needs replicating, replicate, replicated. If it doesn't, then make dua supplicate suffocate for IT success and support them directly and indirectly. The other way is if there's something unhealthy, try and make it healthy. And if there is a gap in the dour, then fill that gap. And this is why from the context of what I just want to tell you right now is that we want to fill a much needed gap and, and focus on it with some intensity that the right focus and intensity it needs. So what is this gap in the doubt? Well, we believe from our analysis that empowering educating and mentoring leaders and influentials to share a slum
intellectually and academically is one of the gaps of the doubt. People are doing great work. There's a lot of empowerment and resources happening. But is there intense focus on this area? Not not so much. And that's how we want to fill the gap by basically facilitating the empowerment, the education and the mentoring of leaders and influentials to share Islam, intellectually and academically. So from this perspective, we need more academic and intellectual activist to bolster Islam against the broader non Muslim my view, if you like, the broader kind of ideological and philosophical challenges with more academic and intellectual individuals who can counsel people who
are having doubts in their faith, have left the faith and engage with them in a way that is contemporary and full of Ranma compassionate. So what this really means from a practical perspective is that Sapiens Institute Its job is to help create individuals to defend, share and educate others on Islam and to inspire others to do so the same. Remember, academic resources are not enough. You need the human being as a vehicle to engage with others to produce my academic resources. But also what's more significant is to share and defend Islam and to empower others to be able to do so as well.
So our vision is very simple. It's we want to see a world that receives the message of Islam, and where people can academically and intellectually share and defend the faith. This is what we want to see, this is the world we want to see, we want to see a world that receives the message of Islam, and where people can academically and intellectually defend and share the faith, educate others on Islam.
So that's a grand vision. So what is our focus, because when you develop a strategic focus, it's very important to pick certain actions, or areas an area of work that can be directly linked to your vision, and that you believe is a necessary and necessary factor in achieving your vision. For example, if you want to see a world where people can hear the message of Islam, and yet you are,
I don't know, you are building coffee shops, right? That's not going to achieve your vision, right? It's your action, your strategic focus has nothing to do with your vision. So we have to be careful and understand that it's not just about doing things for the sake of it, we're very focused on we're clear about this vision, and we believe in it. And we believe it's what Allah wants from us. And we believe this is tied to the Quran and the Sunnah, and we believe is filling a gap, then we should be sincere and create areas or create action work or create a strategic focus or set of actions that would directly unnecessarily lead to that. So our strategic focus is as following it is to provide a
compelling, convincing, convincing case for Islam. So we take intellectual leadership, as well as Sapiens Institute, that we that we provide a compelling and convincing case for Islam. But at the same time, and this is more significant for us to empower, educate, and mentor others to share and defend the faith academically and intellectually. And we try and achieve this by developing training courses. We have a lighthouse mentoring program, we're developing and publishing books, and so on and so forth. So last operational year,
in around 11 or 12 months, we basically achieved the following we trained and empowered people to share some academically 6000 people, we so we trained and empowered 6000 people to share Assam academically, we developed and delivered over 33 academic webinars, we delivered in depth online courses and seminars, we develop advanced training. Rather, we delivered advanced training to the Blue Mosque team in Istanbul, who have access to millions of visitors around 4 million visitors, visitors a year, we published three books, we researched and publish 13 essays and articles, we launched our free Lighthouse mentoring service, we privately mentored ex Muslims, activists and
people with doubts. We produced 32nd thoughts videos, and we published various work of our various pieces of our writings in Turkish, and Spanish. So that's what we did last operational year, which was made 2022 April 2021. So if you remember, during Ramadan, many of you would have realized that we actually not only were fundraising, but we were very clear about what we wanted to achieve. And we promised the following. And it was a lot of work that we promised, right so we promised this year may 2021 to April 2022. We promised that we would empower and train over 10,000 Muslims. Complete a free book, addressing all of the main doubts against Islam that can be found often online, publish a
website responding to leading anti Islamic websites, expand a lighthouse mentoring service professional film 10 course 10 free courses with slides and notes and a new learning platform published two new books on Islamic thought and proofs of Islam, published well researched, well researched essays and articles produced over 60 New videos addressing doubts and commenting on field philosophical issues and providing a strong case for Islam, engaging for academic discussions and debates, ensuring our advanced our training courses available other languages translate to Arabic books written by leading intellectuals on the proofs of Islam, ensure translations of our work in
other languages and start a new podcast. Yes, this is exactly what we said. We want to achieve this operational year. So my job now is to tell you what the progress is so far, and what's coming and what we
have planned and even the extra stuff that we have achieved, similar.
the first thing, well, this is not it's not in any kind of priority. But the first thing I'm going to talk about is that we promised to expand our lighthouse mentoring service and the Hamdulillah. We did that straightaway, we now have expanded our lighthouse mentoring service, which is a free service to have to having over 20 hours per week. And we also have new mentors. So we have over 20 hours per week where we have one to one free one to one sessions, private confidences confidential sessions with EX Muslims, non Muslims, leaders and do art. So there are two main areas that we deal with. One is doubts and questions. And the other one is about mentoring and developing others to be
able to have an impact in the dour. And it's been a phenomenal experience. For example, I do around three hours a week. And you know, we speak to PhD students we speak to early on that and scholars they ask us for help how to get involved in the Dow how to improve the Dow any, you know, sharing of expertise and experience, and so on and so forth. And it is such a rewarding and fruitful exercise Wallahi it's so amazing that you can spend one hour with someone. And obviously, we don't just limit it, limit it to one hour, that there are subsequent calls or mentoring sessions after if required, but it's so empowering to spend some time with people and so rewarding, because you see that it
changes people and it has a positive impact on the man on the faith, but also on how they can get involved in the dour, in, you know, in, in a way that is impactful. You know, sometimes we assess our success based on likes, and how many views that we we have received, what we have achieved, and how many subscribers that we have. But this is what I call sometimes the vanity metrics. We need to not count the numbers, not counting the metrics, not not display the metrics, but try and display the impact, because that's what we really want. And like how service, although it's not like millions of people, but we're spending quality time with individuals that can have an impact that
can in the future have a further impact of 1000s if not millions of people, if you accumulate all the numbers together. And this is true impact we're developing and empowering people with this one to one service, but at the same time where we're helping X Muslims come back to the deen we're speaking to students to non Muslims to leaders who do art. So specifically when we speak to ex Muslims. You know, we speak to people that have left Islam because of intellectual, spiritual or emotive doubts. When we speak to students. We're speaking to the students at university or college level. And we're trying to reconcile an Islamic identity with the with the the city vicissitudes of
college life and non Muslims or non Muslims engaged with us. You know, these non Muslims usually are thinking about embracing Islam, but have been succumbed by doubts or really need that kind of extra time or that one to one, in order to really unpack things further for them to basically
come closer to Allah subhanho wa taala. We also mentor leaders, we have community leaders, imams and activists that we engage with, and we mentor them from the point of view of how teach them how they could address their own doubts and the doubts of others, but also how we can help them have an impact in the dour. We also have the one to one mentioned with Dwight, you know preachers activist and to auto engage in the work of sharing Islam to you know, do that kind of health check to help them improve, to share some experiences and advice and to mentor and mentor them on their journey.
The other thing I want to give you an update on our progress is on we said we're going to deliver this year two new books on Islamic thought and proofs of Islam, in actual fact, will complete in three books. These are not the final titles, but one of the books are going to be published. Inshallah, in January 2022 Sorry, I got the date wrong is 2022. January is the Bohan argument which is really the kind of it been since you've been Tamia contingency argument for the existence of God, and from an Islamic theistic perspective in addressing all of the kind of contentions. We're going to be publishing the health hypothesis in April 2022, which deals with Darwinism, Islam and science.
We're going to be publishing the divine perfection book in December 2021. That's next month, which is going to have a tsunami effect on the dollar, especially in the kind of Christian academic community because we're dealing with
have, you know some unanswered questions in the English language concerning divine perfection, God's love and forgiveness, and it's a phenomenal book. And when Dr. Othman comes on live tonight, he's going to be explaining a little bit about that. So alhamdulillah we're gonna inshallah over achieved from this perspective. We also said, we're going to film progression from 10 courses to put on our learning platform. And we're going to have notes, detailed notes for many of them and slides. And we're going to have examinations as well multiple, multiple choice questions. And what we have filmed so far is no doubt which is an in depth course, teaching you 10 effective strategies on how
to do your doubts on the doubts of others. We've also filmed awakening the truth within, which is basically our advanced our training course. We also have filmed the rules of engagement, which is you know, how to understand logical fallacies how to develop critical thinking, understanding how to have more Navarra discussion debates from an Islamic ethical and intellectual perspective. We filmed divine perfection, which again is about you know, the concept of God in Islam and Christianity concerning maximal forgiveness and love and some of the main academic contentions that come from the Christian academic community. And we also have filmed awakening the truth within our advanced
training course in Spanish. And what we are filming before Ramadan is the divine reality which is a an in depth course addressing atheism and philosophical naturalism. We have a course on Islam and liberalism. We have a course on the summer nihilism, we have two courses on Christology, meaning Christianity and the Islamic perspective. We have a course on the Quran and science, you know, a deconstruction of philosophical assessment of a jazz and tell me the scientifical scientific miracles claim narrative and producing a more robust narrative, which we call the multiplicity of readings approach, we're also going to have a course on Darwinism and Islam. And we're going to be
filming awakening the truth within an Arabic. So again, here we are going to over achieve Insha Allah, all of these things will be ready by April 2022. But we're going to be launching the learning platform next month. And we're going to have three courses ready next month, the no doubt course, the awakening of truth, within course, and the rules of engagement course. And all the other course will be ready by Ramadan in sha Allah. So we've been working really, really hard behind the scenes and handling that.
And our operations and management personnel, Bilal Toniolo in Turkey has been working extremely hard facilitating most of this work, may Allah bless him and his family. The other thing we said we're going to achieve was completing a book on doubts. And the book is going to be basically based on our no doubt course. And that's part one of the book. So we're going to be in written format telling you the 10 effective strategies in detail with robust references and robust arguments, and, and so on and so forth. 10 effective strategies on how to deal with your and other people's doubts, I think this is going to be a massive game changer. And part two of the book is going to be addressing and
answering the key doubts that you face online and offline. And this is going to be published in April 2022 Insha, Allah, we also said, we're gonna have two translations of Arabic books by Arabic by Arab intellectuals, one book is almost finished. And this is the book by Dr. Sami armory, which is like the proofs of prophethood. That translation is going to be completed this month. And we're publishing it next month, in December 2021, insha, Allah and the other book that we're going to finish translating and publishing it, we're going to do this by April 2022. And this is one of Chef or JDS books, and we're yet to be decided which book we're going to the management team are going to
sit together and decide which book we're going to translate, but that will be ready before Ramadan as well in sha Allah.
Now, there are some projects that we mentioned the things that we promised that we mentioned, some of those things are dependent on other projects. So we said we're going to empower and train over 10,000 Muslims, we've already trained hundreds of Muslims, based on our on site courses this year, however, we aim to train and develop over 10,000 Muslims by April 2022, based on the delivery of our learning platform alone, so our learning platform is going to have insha Allah over 10,000 people registering and going through the courses in sha Allah, we're developing a very careful marketing campaign to ensure that happens. We're also going to publish a website responding to leading anti
Islamic websites, but that's also dependent on the node, that book that we're producing, that's going to be ready by April. So in parallel, we're going to be working on that website as well. And the other project or deliverable that's dependent on other projects is ensuring I advanced our training course
is available in other languages. If you remember, we already have one. We already have the advanced our training course in Spanish, but we're going to have the dowel training course in Arabic as well. And that's going to be ready on our learning platform by April 2022. In sha Allah. The other thing that we promise to deliver was publishable research writing, if you go to our website Sapiens Institute institute.org For slash read, we've published various wrestling with freewill reflections of divine human freedom by Muhammad hijab. does the Quran say the earth is flat Islamic scholarship and the multiplicity of readings approach. And we have many other indie essays that are being write
written and that they're going to be produced in the next couple of weeks and months, for example, nihilism as a poison pot to Islam as the antidote, the hard problem, and God's existence part one can physicalism and neuroscience. So the mystery of consciousness is the scientific and assessment of the scientific miracles claim, and much, much more.
We also said we're going to produce 60 plus videos. So far, we've produced 14 sapient thoughts videos are available for you to watch. There's another seven that's coming out very soon, we have produced seven online academic seminars, seven lun denier poem, commentary videos, so that's around 20 videos so far, plus the seminar just about to be published, that's going to be 35. And Inshallah, when we are we are on target to produce another 35, before Ramadan. So we went on target with regards to this as well in sha Allah, the remaining projects that we should quickly discuss, we said we're going to engage in for academic discussions and debates. We're in the process of planning
these discussions debates in December 2021. So we're going to have a planning meeting in December, so we could actually plan these debates in 2022. Inshallah, and hopefully, all four debates will be done before Ramadan, I know there's one happening in sha Allah in Texas with fat to slim. But we're going to give you more information on that very soon. We also said that we're going to ensure translations of our work in other languages. And if you go on our website, you can see that we have two tabs, one Turkish tab and an EIGHT and a Spanish tab. Sorry, it says English here by supposedly Spanish. And we have translations. And these translations are also ongoing as well. We said we're
going to start a new podcast, and I'm happy to announce that we're going to start a new podcast in February 2022.
And there's much more because not only are we on in, we're achieving what we said we're going to achieve what we said in Ramadan, that we were going to achieve this operational year. But we also
we also have doing much, much more for example, we have the London near Parliament commentary, we have this enemy poem on contemporary Arcada and an in depth commentary book coming out very soon, inshallah. And you've been watching some of these videos where Muhammad hijab, and lots of people have been enjoying them very positive feedback. I was reading something today that, you know, they were they were delighted with regards to the London Nia program. And the commentary is going to be an expansion of these videos in depth with references. We also do lectures at universities and on site courses. For example, fact esteem in America because we have sapience. America now, we are a
501 C, which is a registered charity in America. And we've launched the no doubt, no doubt onsite course, and for has been going from state to state actually delivering this course. And you can find more information, at no doubt cost calm. And it's not only in the USA, but all around the world. So if you want this course face to face in your country, then then just ask for it. We also have Sapiens Institute Arabic YouTube channel. And we also have a really brilliant course coming up, which in sha Allah Dr. Suffolk Choudry is going to be working on and I had a seminar with him just a few hours ago on our channel. And it's basically bridging the gap between the early AMA and
theological philosophy in a dour context training. So we're going to be Bridging the Gap providing a training course, an advanced training course to aroma from different backgrounds, from Medina, from the dark rooms from Alaska. And it's going to be we're going to basically link the kind of Islamic intellectual tradition they learn at their seminaries at their institutions, and get them to contemporize to make sense of it in contemporary field philosophical discourse in the context of Dawa, and this is something that is absolutely phenomenal research, strategic game changer, because all of these are Lemma and these thinkers and these and these students have knowledge, they can
basically now attend a course like this to be able to really get all of the wealth of knowledge that they have from that from the institution.
And then and the years and even some of them decades of learning, and now they are able to understand the contemporary language apply that end in a contemporary discourse from a philosophical perspective in the context of doubt. So this is going to be a huge game changer in sha Allah.
From a point of view of compliance and best practice, we have a robust code of conduct that you can find online. We have a conflict of interest policy and risk management policy and procedure, anti extremism guidance, safeguarding policy, multi leveled finance and procurement approval processes based on our intranet system, and more. So we're aligning ourselves with best practice processes and procedures in order to be transparent and to be ethical, as best as possible. If you have any questions, please let us know. So now it's time to speak to the team. Brothers and sisters. I'm going to just bring them on Alhamdulillah we have Subhanallah, the great giants of our team here.
We're gonna bring on board now. Use of
Bilal chef Muhammad Idrissi Dr.
Usman Latif at hamdulillah Salam aleikum, Wa Alaikum salam Rahmatullah.
Good to see you all good to see you. circusy Bilal Belaz first time with us on a stream of the Hammond inner bless him. We have Chef Muhammad he Tracy mashallah Tabarrok Allah Dr. And what who's coming on board shortly is going to be Subodh and Mohamed hijabs coming on board in the next I think 15 minutes Alhamdulillah.
So, apologies for the long presentation, but I wanted to give everyone exactly what we've been doing and what we're achieving, because we promised them a whole set of things that we're going to deliver and inshallah won't progress to delivering all of it and more Alhamdulillah and it's all because of your great work, my dear beloved brothers. So
what we'll do, we're going to take some questions because we said we're going to take questions on thier philosophical issues. subforum Mohamed hijab is going to jump on board on this live stream in the next 10 or 15 minutes. And they're going to talk about their work as well. But let's just really have a summary with regards to everyone's different pieces of work. So let's start with the doctors man Latif, with regards to the amazing book that you're writing at the moment, which is at the moment called divine perfection, but we're going to change the title. So give us an update. We're thinking we'll obviously I have planned to publish this next month. So to talk to everybody have
what's going on with the book.
Fighting start off with Ally. Allah bless you. Thank you so much for your introduction to our work over the last six months and salmon come to all of our great team Muhammad Allah bless all of you. Alhambra Rabbil Alameen, who begin by thanking and praising Allah subhanaw taala it's a big NEMA from him alone subhanho wa Taala all successes from him alone subhanho wa Taala we say mama to a 50 below so my roommate is Romania Villanova might Allah subhanaw taala service everything and all of us are recipients of that divine grace and blessings and bounty and mercy from him. Allah subhanho wa Taala
Alhamdulillah I think it's it's coming on very well hum there, lad. So if you recall, I began we began this project last year. And initially it was following on from the kind of things that were being said by will have been set for a long time by Doctor Professor William Lane Craig up in America. And these were points of attractions, you know, against Islam. He's making comments in his debates in his, in his books in his podcast. And it began by responding to these in a very academic fashion, looking closely at the kind of arguments he's making. But the thesis of the book was predicated quite strongly on the idea of divine perfection or maximal faction of the Divine of Allah
of God. subhanho wa taala. But 100 Since that time, it's kind of progressed much more than that. It's become a book that's, that's really taking on board. A lot of these attractions from people, you know, far back from the beginning of Christian history really are of the last two millennia. People like John of Damascus, Thomas Aquinas, and then people before 100 years ago like Samuels Wimmer, in contemporary time James Lankford, William Lane, Craig You know, and others as well. And so what I explore and look for clues in the book as I look at the kind of
well one part of it is to look at the Quranic verses and arguments that these Christian apologists and missionaries use and
and how they misinterpret them or how they misquote them. And how, in fact, the Quran is the biggest proof, oftentimes, it's about it's the same verses that they're Miss applying that serve as a biggest proof against the arguments that are actually making if those if those was understood, correctly, interpreted in the right in the right light.
And so therefore, that's kind of one area of what the book is. But the fundamental, in fact, of the book is, is, is about what I call the Adamic conundrum. And what this presents is a kind of a new paradigm through which we can look at Christian Muslim engagement, it's kind of is taking the discussion away from what people oftentimes assumed to be the beginning points of our discussions. And so there might be things about the divinity of Jesus Christ from the Christian narrative, or you know, about the the Sonship of Christ, all of these things, I argue in the book are quite secondary, there is a beginning point that we should be engaging with them as Muslims. And this is something
that is fundamentally explained in the Quran. And it's, it's one of I believe, the one of the biggest proofs and points against, you know, the most fundamental Christian premises for their theology. And so I look very closely at things like Christian atonement theories, and how they develop and how they, how they build up this salvific figure of Jesus Christ. And why so and the questionnaire is about the why so element so it's not so much about the what but about the why. And I think if we understand the why everything makes a lot of sense. And then when you see the way the Quran is working with with the Christian, it's just Subhanallah it's so profound and I think that
that's kind of the I think inshallah will be something interesting inshallah for for us, so the book of Hamza is near completion, you know, it's this kind of, there are some kind of a few other things I'm working on very closely now, and I think Inshallah, when it's done inshallah it will be a good thing and shall a good for Muslims and understanding and of course, remember that we do all things with love. It is not about you know, anything antagonistic it is about for his love. I mean, that's our premise. It's about being motivated by love thinking about the Divine Love of Allah subhanho wa taala. And having that kind of very positive, fruitful engagement in with others, because of course,
we want good for all people, for ourselves and for the people in the provinces that none of you truly believe in who you love for other people who you love for yourself and the best thing we'll have for ourselves is guidance. And of course, we love that love that for all people. And so Mark Twain Shall I think Inshallah, once the book is done, it will be a bigger thing inshallah Allah bless Allah, Allah zafra. Doctor, I'm really looking forward to because it's really taking the kind of academic Christian arguments attacking the conception of God in the Islamic tradition that he is not maximally loving, going to things like a Trinity and many other aspects and you're taking it
from their origins from the their salah, if you like their pious predecessors, they're big scholars, and you're going through history to the contemporary period to the modern scholars today. And you're actually addressing those arguments are very deep Quranic perspective, and in a very unique perspective as well, I think one that would show that ALLAH SubhanA wa Taala is maximally loving, maximally forgiving, and that the kind of different concepts and ideas that emanate from biblical Christianity as as it's known today, is not coherent, and not in line with a maximum perfect. So mother bless you love for her for that. My love is you. So this speak to Chef Muhammad idrisi in the
house. He's got his hat on he's got his earphones on his butt the books behind him and handling his Our in house, Chef Mela, bless him and preserve him and his family. He's been very easy. And yeah, talk to us what happened? Talk to us about the course in Spanish and talk to us about the recent course that you did in Madrid Bismillah Bismillah AR Rahman AR Rahim The other was also in Karim salaam I got a lot of all like Omar here and Mashallah. So happy to be with all of you and, and I hope that everyone who's listened to us is in the best state of human health. And hamdulillah has been
regarding the cost you mentioned that we just had in Madrid Alhamdulillah was a success at Hamdulillah.
There were a lot of youngsters who came and said the first time we hear in this kind of things and so
opening my eyes in a way that
How important is to engage not just through, like a webcam or through internet bias also to engage with people personally, because that hasn't, you know, our, our, when that when they see, they're like in direct contact with others, it has other impacts that we, we cannot reach through just a webcam, but an ambulance pilot, one of the youngsters before the course, came to me and said, I have doubts regarding the existence of Allah. As someone who was Muslim, and was having a very hard time when the course ended.
It was I was I was getting, she asked me so many questions. So let's, let's wait until the end of the course, and see if we can answer those questions. If not, then we'll see it again. Inshallah. So at the end of the course, she said that she didn't have any other other questions I have, that I always have. And she, she was so happy about it, no, and this is just one person, but obviously, it's all the course was just for that person, which was her heavy metals in doubt. And now as I'm doing that, she didn't have a doubts left. So that would be enough of value and Hamdulillah. But the way attendees and, and handler flew through that people starts speaking about the course, first time
that something like this so specific, about, you know, like that, one, the importance of that one, how to give Dawa to give them responsibility, you know, like,
to understand human beings as who they are with their, with experiences with their emotions, and not just like, throwing
dialog, they just just lead memorized, and try to
interact with people with that. But it's much more than that. And also, to have those skills and to, to, to, because in Spain, obviously, we just started with this with the, with the things, and many people don't don't even know that, actually, we have so robust, like,
proofs for our email for our belief, when they know that it's like, they feel like this is like they they said to me that they like they're born again. So how Allah they have a new opportunity, and Inshallah, in few weeks we will be doing in Barcelona, they say, inshallah McDonogh
is also a successor, which Allah died over there, the community is even much bigger. And that 100 Loving. Also, as you said, before translating many of the articles or books that we're doing, we have that that course and handled also available online, in the learning platform, and slowly, slowly getting these things done. And as I said before, is the first time actually, we were dealing with these issues in Spanish directly on the soccer chef, so So you recently delivered our the Sapiens Institute advanced our training course in Madrid in a couple of weeks, it's going to be in Brazil, in Brazil, in Barcelona, and we need to have a meeting about that. So I'll call you
And it sounds like you got amazing feedback from people. So that's, I'm really delighted about that. And also your translations have been.
In actual fact, brothers and sisters, there are a couple of translations we haven't published yet just because of time. So he's, he's too fast for us. So there's about two pieces that we haven't put up yet. Inshallah, I'm going to aim to try and put them up next week in sha Allah. But the most effective thing as well is the one to one training with masses of people face to face, you did definite delivering that training in Spain, in Madrid and Barcelona, you've done the advanced our training course in Spanish for learning platform that's going to be launched very soon in sha Allah. So all of this is great work in developing and empowering others to be able to share and defend
Islam academic and intellectual. One thing that I think you missed out, which you're also going to be doing this with a no doubt course 10 effective strategies on how to deal with your doubts and the doubts of other people in law. So yeah, it is up to him for that. So let's have a little quick update before we get questions from people and we get the other brothers on board. Speak to Bilal on yellow, our brother from Turkey, a beloved brother, he let him give us an update on
Too many pieces of work that been going on from risk management to operations to management to implementing learning platform Bismillah ro tell us what's been going on.
So yeah, as you said, there has been many things going on with operations and management. Yeah, I'll start with the learning platform,
if summarized well, but I have some things to add inshallah.
We started filming the courses around June, June 15, I guess. But, you know, he came all the way from us to Istanbul and returned for like 15 days, I guess, which had and yourself
and the other courses we filmed in Istanbul and other places in in UK.
And you know, the filming is like a very easy, you get into a studio, spend hours, four hours, five hours to trust mama teeth in the UK.
And he filmed two times one of the courses so he knows how it is.
So it's a struggle and 100 that we've been able to fill six courses in now. And those are, as you said before, no doubt cause and everything, the truth within and Spanish, our course, should normally receive in that one being human, from those doctors normative and divine perfection from performative as well. And the Art of Doing in disputation from Dr. Stouffer Choudry, it has six courses, we have been able to fin and they are just seven to go.
So, let me tell you about the learning platform it there is a website, obviously, and it has a membership, you logged in, you become a member and you have your own profile, you can follow lectures from your profile, you see the percentage, how many lectures you've watched, you know, you can see the minutes of the lectures, you know, if you've, if you don't want to spend so much time on a learning platform, we can see like three minute lectures, you can just go in watch and get out. And if you want a longer one, you can go and watch a longer one, you don't have to follow the curriculum. You need to you know, if you if you want to watch specific lecture, you can look at the
curriculum page and click on a lecture and just watch it.
But if you do follow the curriculum, that's good for you. And you can have quizzes and exams, we are preparing them, they are mostly multiple choices, but you might have like fill in the blanks or other other question types as well.
And the courses will have their own notes and the slide that you can download and follow with the lecture. So we're gonna be we're gonna be providing those as well.
So, you know, this is like the basic structure of the course, you go into the course, you start the course in, follow the curriculum, it ends, and you will have a nice CPS Institute certificate with your real name written on it, you can keep later on.
But this is the main thing. Maybe, let's say this is the basic version and learning platform after the launch, but later on, we're gonna inshallah make it more interactive, for example, you have, you already have your own profile, and the instructors have their own profile as well. So you're going to be able to interact with them in the live lectures. And, you know, you'll have your questions and you can ask them now on YouTube live streams, we have q&a sessions, but it's usually off two points. Sometimes people come in and ask the question, the you know, the the topic changes, it's a Java lecture. It's based on the lecture so you can have a better interaction with the teacher on learning
And inshallah we're going to have a demo of that with Hamza soon inshallah with some of the with one of the lectures from the no doubt course, when we are launching, launching the platform inshallah.
Yeah, that's basically it about the learning platform.
What does the management
So just to add to everyone, I think maybe they didn't get it, which is the learning platform is totally free, all of our work is actually free.
And when you register as a member, you'll be able to access all the course content. And if you want to be studious, you go through the whole thing, finish all the examinations to get your certificate, or you can if you want to go on to individual lectures as well, but as Bill said, we advise you go through the whole thing, so you can get your certification. And you can actually, basically cap acquire all the necessary knowledge and concepts in order to progress yourself with regards to sharing Assam academically and intellectually. So yeah, I mean, the other thing is are below all the risk assessments that the
Risk Management Policy that you've implemented, because part of our best practice that we have to risk assess every single person and every single person that does work for us. And that is connected to us in some way. So you have working very, very hard doing the detailed risk assessments. Obviously, we can't give full details, because some of those things are private and confidential.
But yeah, so Bill has been working on risk assessments. He's been working on relationship building as well, even from a tech perspective. And many other projects that we're dealing with as well, because there's some things in the presentation that haven't mentioned, like the publishing of our books, the reformatting and typesetting relationship building, stakeholder management, all of these things. And hamdulillah Bilal has been quite central to that.
So yeah, me if there's anything else you want to add to that below. No problem. You're more than welcome.
Yeah, no, thank you. Just you know, you don't know it yet. But our first guest for the podcast is being confirmed. Oh, brilliant.
conversate the conversation that we had previously.
With that person insha Allah we're going to be filming. Then. Some Sobol comes That's epic. Ma well done, bro. That is that's gonna be epic. We need to spice it up a bit as well. We need to get them you know, having good intellectual dialogue.
I mean, then do it alternatively, it's like the characters for that. My
humble Yeah, see, I forgot to mention that as well below this is working on the podcast as well. So I have the limit of bless him and his family and the app so it is off for her. So next we have as a summary is our lighthouse. Mentoring manager, and also our instructor and writer and, and everything else in between our beloved brother use of ponders. Talk to us, bro, talk to us first about Lighthouse mentoring, and talk to us about
your forthcoming writing as well and other bits and pieces. Bismillah Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim Salam aleikum. Everyone. See a lighthouse project has been rolling for
most of the year now. And when did we start it? Was it about March April?
roundabout there? And?
Yes, we got really, really well. So we've got about seven mentors, currently working on it.
And yeah, Hamza gave a brief description of what we've been doing. But we've been talking to everyone. The majority of people that are using the service at the moment are people who are already Muslims, who are currently suffering from doubts or questions about certain things.
varying from pretty much all the sort of questions you can think popping up. And
other than that, we've been dealing with people who've been interested in Islam and with EX Muslims. In the past couple of weeks, I've spoke to someone who left Islam and came back. And we were going over a few more things that were trying to get their head around and handlers seems like their, their faith is setting, settling a lot. And we've been getting a lot of good feedback as well. Even at the end of the sessions themselves, people generally tend to be very thankful thankful for the opportunity to be able to just sit down and have a conversation with people one to one,
because it's often the case that they don't really have anyone to talk to, and the opportunity to speak to a duet. And in a private setting one to one, rather than on live streams or in chats, or by email, we can say that the, you know, the opportunity to have face to face conversation with cameras on or just audio only.
People really are sort of warming to this idea. And it's the only if it's kind of the moment in that release, 100, I said, should be something that we hope to increase as well. So we're looking at expanding the service, Inshallah, we're currently trying to arrange some sort of system updates as well to help the expansion a little bit. So I'm looking at trying to get some sort of software developers or web developers to help with the process. Attendance can be a bit of a problem sometimes. So we're trying to think of ways to try to increase that. And if any of you that are watching now have used the service, if you have any feedback, or maybe you're someone who's booked
and hasn't attended a meeting,
you could let us know, via the email lighthouse at CBS institute.org. Or if you have if you've used a service and you want to give any feedback at all, be that positive or negative, you can do so via that email to
other than that,
with regards to my upcoming essay, so this is going to be Islam as an antidote to that. Taking a lot longer than I wanted it to.
But yeah, we're we're making progress. I think I'm about 9000 That's
Target was always a lot smaller and then it always ends up tripling.
I don't know if Dr. Mann had that same issue with his book maybe. But I think it's just the way the world so yeah, that's currently in the process of being completed
and inshallah there should be a nice little addition to the part one and hopefully that'll be done soon and then we're looking at recording
with brother Jake as well. We're in discussions about where that's going to be exactly but we're going to be filming the the nihilism course and getting that completed and then Jake is going to be doing some Chris theology courses yes as well. Two courses from Jake they'll be one in depth course from yourself and summer nihilism. USC was phenomenal. Your second part essay is going to be phenomenal. Inshallah remember, we met about a month ago, isn't it in the office? Yeah. Yeah, I'm still trying to translate your notes.
You like a doctor bro? Yeah, um, so?
Yes. So you know, use of mashallah with his, you know, usual humble self. You know, Lighthouse mentoring service is a phenomenal project, you know, we have one to ones with people's doubts. And we also have one to ones with Misha and scholars, we had, for example, a scholar who's getting involved in RSC, becoming a teacher who wants to have a positive impact concerning the curriculum and how to apply it in a way that is balanced for all communities, including the Muslims. And that's going to have a massive effect, from a kind of British educational point of view for Muslims and non Muslims. And there was another chef in terms of how he wanted to get involved in academic type of
dour, and so on and so forth. So we actually help many people to have a great impact as well. It's not just about the the doubts themselves, but even when it's done. Yeah, when it's just people just having
doubts, you know, I think what's very important is when they get clarified, they get empowered, and they, they actually want to share Islam, and they want to basically share the beauty of Assam. And in some cases, you know, people move on forward to do some amazing things. And I think we're going to be seeing the results of that. So I just want to say just soccer for two use of Because managing that whole process is very difficult. And may Allah grant him, you know, ease and success, I mean, I just want to add to that as well, that it turns out to be quite a bit of life coaching to people, you're speaking to them. And one minute you're talking, answering particular questions about certain
doubts. And then the next minute, you're sort of helping them to battle plan life, how to organize themselves. And a lot of this is, I think the issue, people
have bad methodology. And they're just trying to figure out ways of organizing themselves more than anything. And then when they have that opportunity to really sort of like, map things out. And, you know, with a little bit of external help, that organization helps to give them a lot of,
you know, a sturdy foundation to sort of propel themselves forward. From the moment I've been speaking like, yesterday, 100, I had a really, really good conversation with a brother who's looking to do his master's in the philosophy of science. And we ended up writing out a whole essay plan for his dissertation while and we were going through it and taking talking about the different steps and the conversations that have gone on for about an hour and a half in the end.
That was really good. And yeah, so we're talking to academics and people planning to go into university and helping them with that process. Even just talking to them, there's been some authors that have been getting in touch with us. And you know, they're just rattling a few ideas about what they're writing in their books, and they've sent us draft versions to go over and things like that. So that the service is turning out quite broad. It's helping people without talking to people who are interested in Islam, non Muslims, ex Muslims, etc. Empowering duart help giving them strategies on how to approach people. I did my first ever seminar I told you on the WhatsApp, someone invited
me to go to MMU, and I went there. And it was super awkward because I've never done anything off
camera, it's a lot different, like on a live stream like this because you've locked up the eyeballs
in the audience staring at you. Yeah, that went a lot better than I thought it was going to.
So that was pretty interesting. But the same thing is sort of empowering people giving people strategies and talking about like ideas in terms of how to where to get started. Say there's a lot of people that they want to get started in our but there's nothing going on in their area. So helping people to sort of map the area to go out to you know, the ring up the local mosques and see if they have any services going or if they got any tables they can attend. And if they haven't to go to these, you know, the Friday could suppose and just to ask the Imam if
can stand at the front. And, you know, just sort of make an announcement I'm looking to do though, is there anyone in here who wants to get involved with us? And just giving them little ideas like that how to start with nothing and then how to build with that and based on what's available with like, no funds or nothing, just using your own initiative.
And yeah, I'm glad it's going really well. Um, I've got a lot of hopes for service to expand a lot in the future inshallah. Joseph, we're here bro. My blessing. And
I'm looking forward to the filming. Mashallah.
Wow. Wow, it's it's, it's, it's, it's
It's the power of this alliance. Alone. But but the thing is, who's the lion and who's the lioness? That's the question.
We've got the lion means luck. But so basically what is
first and foremost,
we went through like about half an hour presentation on the updates on Luigi netsapiens. Because if you remember, in Ramadan, we promised a whole list of deliverables that we're going to achieve, and I give them an update on that. And in actual fact, in many cases, we're going to overachieve. Insha Allah. So we said, we're going to do two books, but we're actually doing three and so on and so forth. So the initial presentation is there for them. He said, three books what which ones did you say? So the books that we said that we're going to do was assembly as part of the presentation was the book, the forehand, which is your one. The third hypothesis, the divine perfection of Dr. Usman
Latif. And there are other books anyway that we're doing. For example, we're translating the books from Nigeria, his book and armories book, we're also doing a book on no doubt on doubts on how to tell effective strategies on how to do without a shelf of Lombardia. There's Oh, I've mentioned that at the end, because I said, we've got extra stuff that we didn't say we were going to do. So we've got the London near the enemy poem, and the commentary that's coming. I mentioned that as again as well, because I said there's more. So Hamdulillah, as you said, in Ramadan, bro, that the output is going to be terrifying. And going through the presentation was kind of terrifying. Yeah. So
hamdulillah we're so far so good. We're achieving the results from the videos from this than the other. But I have mentioned to them that we're going to have a management team meeting in December to discuss the four debates that we have to have just before Ramadan. But the thing is, you know, hijab is asking all these people to debate him, but a lot of them are just hiding away like doneness being cowards. So what can you do? We'll have to debate ourselves.
Maybe there should be a big debate between me and me and he job or something, I don't know. Maybe
I don't, I don't want to ruin my career before.
injuring his own boss.
So what we what we've done, we went to that presentation, then we got Dr. Smith's update on his book and his work, Chef Muhammad, Tracey Bilal with the learning platform in the management work in operations work and also use of on Lighthouse mentoring. So now as YouTube, just give us a little bit of update, so we can start with Cebu, then we'll go with hijab and officer will will let Sybil take over and we'll do a q&a a Sapiens q&a In terms of support, he should be coming over the continent somehow. And he's going to be delivering his course on Darwinism, Islam and science. And he's actually doing the third hypothesis as well. And yeah, I'm gonna let him talk about that. And
then he could talk about his London near the commentary, his his board handbook and many other things. And after we will open up to q&a. So it would be similar.
Just like I was actually listening in to you guys earlier. So it's very good and quite daunting update in terms of what we're planning on doing, which is good. You aim for the moon and you hopefully reach slough.
Right, oh, no offense to anybody lives in Laos, Laos.
In case someone Armageddon. So I'm basically when it comes to the field hypothesis book, as you guys know, it's going to include naturalism, Darwinism, scientism, atheism, and all these sorts of topics. So at the moment,
most of the chapters are done. It's about updating some of the chapters in terms of some new stuff that's been actually coming out over the last year. So on my YouTube channel, you'll see some interviews with Dr. Paul Nelson. I also have an upcoming interesting interview next month with another prominent Intelligent Design proponent. And previously I've had William Dembski, and also
Jonathan wells. So some of the contemporary stuff is going to be incorporated in the failed hypothesis book as well. And as you guys know, this is a very big
Topic Darwinism and are basically address to it. So that's on the Fel hypothesis side of things. Also, I'm developing a course in terms of evolution, Darwinism and naturalism, which inshallah will be delivered in Turkey recorded in Turkey early next year. London Nia is also something which obviously everyone's been following. I also have a section coming up in London here in a couple of weeks time but so far, mashallah John has been manning the ship on his own. So far, it's looking pretty good. How's it been going so far with London now? Actually, he jumped? Can you? Can you can you tell us the full details of London Nia, in terms of the poem, what Chef we did, who authorized
it? And, you know, if people really people haven't been going following and they want to follow, give that kind of elemi background, let them know exactly the history of it, and where we also find inshallah. So basically, what we wanted was, we wanted to have a poem, because in the Islamic tradition, especially in like my dad is in and Halaqaat
shahada basically is Halaqaat of knowledge and knowledge circles across the world, you have a tradition of getting a mitten or some kind of a poem, and then do a shot one explanation of that point. Now, this is how the Islamic sciences were part of the way in which Islamic sciences were preserved. For example, in
natural you have leisure media, you know, in grammar, you have leisure media, you have CATIA, Niddah, you have like, you know, alpha numeric. These are poems, small and large, which aim to preserve grammar in a way which is accessible to students. Likewise, if
you have like, last fall, you have injuries or just very, you know, which people memorize, you know, and they memorize it. And they also
kind of explain it. And the same thing with other things like Flipkart and all these things. So what we wanted was that we wanted to create something, which in theory would be aqidah, because we are talking about the faith and creed of Muslims, but in conjunction with the modern ideological trends, especially after the Nissans and the Enlightenment period, but which also includes aspects of comparative religion, and its bet, would you dishonor or proven God's existence, if birth, both Mohamed Salah Salem, proving the Muhammad Sallallahu sallam, as well as something to keep people away from photography, or the extremities of Islamic positioning.
This is basically something for people to to have solidity in their Islamic faith, and to know how to argue for it
kind of apologetically, if you like, to non Muslims, and or Muslims who are influenced by those ideologies. So it's, it covers around, I think, over 25
different ideologies, and all religions, including, but not limited to, the major world religions, like all of them, you know, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism, and it covers also all of the major ideologies that have an impact, including the ethical tradition.
And so basically, what we've done is that we spoke to one chef who's very good
poetry. Chef Alia called me. And he is one of our senior Shafi scholars, who's has a place in the Norway Institute, and also known to some of the greatest scholars in the world today. He that he, we had conversations and discussions, which took some time to be fair, which then he took and crafted into a poem, which, which is, to be honest, I'll tell you the truth. I tried to do the putting myself in the beginning, okay. I tried to write up my own my own Arabic and stuff. And I sent it to him. And he said that is not in is not in line with the conventions. So it has to be one of the Bihar one of the it has to be like, you know, there has to be one letter that's metallic one second.
It was a bit of a headache. Now, I was not skilled enough in Arabic poetry, to be able to do it myself. So in a sense, we done it. And
obviously we had discussions. And so what he's this poem now has been complete. He sent it now to many different machines and all across the world. And, like Robert Islamia, the Robert
Obviously, and it's been given,
it's been given the go ahead by big Messiah and all of my across the world, like Sheikh Mohammed, I by Sunni, who's the head of the rabita, like many Musharraf in Saudi Arabia, like many Musharraf in Egypt, in Mauritania, and from what we understand actually is going to be, hopefully, when the show comes out, is actually going to be taught in the deserts of Mauritania. So imagine that sapiens is going to reach the deserts of Mauritania, is going to reach the different distant areas of the Muslim world, because these ideas are going to filter down to the Muslim world. And we believe this is a Sapiens special knowledge production, which we are in a very opportune placement to be able to
deliver. And so this is it puts east and west together. And it aims
equip Muslim people across the world, not just in the West, across the whole wide world, okay, with these arguments, and
these arguments, which are, you know, in line with the major schools of credo,
and they are not, they're not controversial in that. So from that perspective, and we aim to finish the shot of it in Arabic as well. So this was the as you may know, or may not know, the London area basically is filmed in a way where it's interactive. So okay, we, we do, I do, like, say, for example, in five minutes or an hour, and then after that, the, the participants in the session, they will actually have like another hour and a half of discussing these things behind the scenes. So we've got, we've got actual participants that are taking part of the London area, and they are inshallah on you, like, we hope that in two, three years time, they will be Sapiens dot, they will
be the owl guys that they you will see them you'll know who they are, because they're getting very intimate training. So as we're producing people, you know, and at the same time, so as we're going through it, we're also transcribing all of the shorter heart or the explanations in both English and an Arabic. Now, once that's been transcribed, is sent to the machine, if it's centered all about, if they are happy with it, then we pumped we clean it up, and we publish it, and that's gonna be one of the books. So a lot of work has been done just with the London area, in order to do it in English and Arabic simultaneously, in order to get it all checked out, in order to get the approval of Allah
Matt, in order for it to to reach
those areas that we've talked about across the world, in order for
people to understand the arguments, like there's so many things that we found that I was, the most recent video that I put up was deontological ethics, very difficult to translate this into Arabic, I couldn't even find translation, there was no transparency, there was no translation of deontological ethics into Arabic deinove. So we have what I think is interesting about this is it does actually constitute a type of knowledge, new knowledge production.
And we are hopefully, yeah, the objective is to pioneer that. And in the next 510 years, the automat and the mache and the tolerable title, the in the Muslim world in studying in these areas in India, Mauritania and Egypt and wherever, maybe they will have that in part of their manage. So they'll be studying the whole school wherever they also study this macaron until at the end or comparative religion, or this idea legit or you know, different ideologies. That will be hopefully we aim to put as part of syllabus because it's a kind of Silla and the problem how salami told us in the Hadith Jahi Lucia Akina, we unphysical welcome. We're elsina Chico. He said, do jihad with the mushriks.
With yourself with your wealth and with your tongues. And we aim to make this as the third category. So that's London in terms of my other updates. As many of you know,
I've done that that book, which constituted my dissertation was the Bohan book, which is going to come out soon. Inshallah. There's also another thing which I have written, but needs to be revamped and checked in, which is about the Bible, Khurana science basically, and how the Quranic approach to
the naturalistic phenomena and the biblical approach. So that's something that I've been working on for some time. And it has been difficult because I've had to get a lot of help from professors and specialists in the Bible in order to
publish it. And so these are the these
Two publications that are coming out, as you know that one has just come out on the freewill question.
And apart from that, we're starting to now do lectures abroad travel, go here, go there, you're gonna see a lot more of that, as well in Charlotte. Charlotte
is a pioneering project, and I think is going to be something that we put Sapiens on the map not only locally, but around the world as well. And we look forward to
seeing the end product of the poem and the explanation and even trying to get involved in reviewing it, and everyone keeps coming together to ensure that it's fit for purpose and reference and so on and so forth. But from what I'm seeing, I'm seeing London everywhere. So comment today are so common now many comments now. Some Allah subhanaw taala bless you, bro is an amazing
person or hammer llama is asking why is it called London area? It's because yes, we're based in London.
And these are the kinds of questions that we have, like the London Muslim person would have, it follows the tradition, a lot of scholars like for example, when Tamia would have like a TED Maria, or he would have a hammer, we always have it in a west of the year. All of these are named after towns and places where he went Tadmor hammer, you know,
was all of these different places in it, so why not just follow that tradition with this, the London
Hamdulillah. So brothers and sisters, what we've done so far, in the past, just over an hour, we went through a presentation on the Sapiens updates and went through some of our we went through our vision, our strategy, we went through the why and the need for sapiens and our strategic focus, we also went through all the promises that we made to in Ramadan, what we want to achieve this operational year, which is from May 2021, to April 2022, and I gave you a progress on that and hamdulillah we're going to be aiming to achieve everything in sha Allah and more Alhamdulillah it's it's going to be a tough next five to six months, but inshallah I think we can make it and the
progress so far has been very positive and Hamdulillah. And we had updates from everybody who had updates from doctors, manatees concerning his book and his work. Bilal taniela We had chef Muhammad racey use of ponders with Lighthouse mentoring. He's the lighthouse mentoring manager and his essays and his courses that is going to be delivered the courses that he's going to deliver. But update from suborn bonus to get back to me on a specific date for January in sha Allah, so please hurry for you to come in and get that filming done. And he job just basically gave his update concerning London he and other work Alhamdulillah. So what we're going to do now, which is like the kind of
final part of the day, which may be even the longest part of the of the of the live, to be honest, is actually take some questions and answers. Myself, I'm going to be probably leaving in the next 15 minutes or so because it's almost two in the morning for me. And Bilal as well. It's going to be two in the morning for him. But I know he's a bit of a nocturnal and nocturnal animals. They say his he likes the night. But you know, we'll have to give up permission to leave soon.
But yeah, so I let the use of Ansible take over with regards to managing the questions. And let's hear from the people. They could ask questions on anything concerning the logical philosophy, because sending sapience because in the management because sending our compliance concerning anything they want. So Bismillah
Yeah, we've got a good first question here.
So we've got someone who wants to be a Muslim. By the sounds of it, maybe they are interested in that they come from a non Muslim background, if you could make that clear as well, that might be interesting to hear about. But they were saying they have doubts about God, God's existence because of evolution.
So what to do with that, but the Savoy you're obviously a go to guy for this. That's I don't know if you want to begin with that. And yeah, we would recommend them to do Firstly, thank you for messaging us in terms of this question. The first thing to realize is don't listen to the popular noise, the sort of narrative that you get out there that evolution is some sort of kryptonite against theology is as a Kryptonite against the design argument. This is really primitive stuff. When we look at what academics are actually saying, and I'm not here talking about academics who are Christian or inclined towards theology, I'm talking about even atheist academics. Evolution does not
undermine God's existence. I actually had a very interesting discussion at the University of Birmingham with Professor Jeremy Pritchard, in which we went over this in some detail. And this is something that we both agreed about that evolution does not undermine God.
existence and that is obviously for not just the reason of the philosophy of science, but even if someone did not refer to the philosophy of science, but actually just accepted science to be the, you know, something that leads to truth, it would still not undermine God's existence. And there's various reasons for that day you'll find in this online discussion, just recently, I was reading the book by Alister McGrath on Darwinism and the divine.
Okay, if you read it,
I don't I don't know what what that was.
So, Darwinism in the Divine. So Alister McGrath, he basically wrote this book. And the book covers the new atheist narrative against God using evolution. And he goes on to show why that narrative is actually nonsense. You have people like Professor Michael Ruse, who actually is himself a Darwinist underneath theist. Yet he actually agrees that Darwin, Darwinism does not undermine God's existence, that Darwinism has nothing, essentially, against, you know, God, from that perspective. Now, there's some nuances in terms of the creation of Adam peace be upon him, and also to do with certain, you know, how much can we accept within our theology, but those are irrelevant to God's existence, I
think that that's the main thing. But if you could get their email address, and they can put in the private chat, I can send them some resources as well. Inshallah. Yeah, so if you like, you could just send us an email
to lighthouse at Sapiens institute.org. And I can forward that to the support. And also, if you want to have like a one to one conversation, I recommend going and using the lighthouse service, you could go to the website, sapiens institute.org. And then at the top, there's a section for requests, I think, and there's mentoring, and then you just book a session for the mentoring, you can have a one to one with one of us. Alternatively, just go to CPC show.org, forward slash lighthouse, and then go through the process of filling that in. And you can have a proper chat with us. But I generally have, like a nice easy way of dealing with this as well, I just say that.
So there's a number of things you got to understand. First of all, Oh, yeah. Michelle has a good book. Yeah, so this is the book, and I highly recommend it. And you won't even have to go maybe 10% through the book before you realize that their narrative completely falls apart. You know, this whole dichotomy of God versus evolution. But sorry, yeah, yeah, so I was just gonna say it's like, there's a bit of nuance that's often missed out. So for example, we believe we all came from Adam Alayhis Salam. And obviously, there's some very obvious distinctions between people from your people from Africa, to Scandinavia, to, you know, the Eastern Europe to South America. And if we all come
from Adam, we all look as different as we do, there must have been some type of evolution that occurred. What we do not say is that Adam Alayhis Salam was some sort of lesser human, or an animal or anything like that he was made fully formed. And when you look at the world and its complexity, and if you can at least concede to the fact that there is a God, for example, and God could create everything that you see around you, then is it that far fetched to say that he could also create a miraculous being like Adam Elisa? And that, obviously, we would then come from him, and he could place him wherever he wanted in that timeline, that has nothing to say about whatever occurs with
anything else in on Earth and how they develop and X, X, Y and Zed because I think the Quran and the Sunnah is pretty silent on everything other than the creation of Adam Elisa, maybe with the exception of a few other things. But yes, it's not an issue if God does exist, and God is powerful enough and wise enough and knowledgeable enough to be able to create everything, then what's so far fetched about I'm also creating animals separately, uniquely. So it's not an issue at all. And I think it's something that you can really simply just put to one side without having to worry about it. But yeah, so do get in touch with us if you want to have like a further conversation privately.
You know, what's very interesting, is I had a seminar, which was live on Sapiens about few hours ago. And it was with Dr. Choudry. He's developed an argument from code, the argument from prior cognitive input is based on the Quran. I think Muhammad hijab would like this actually. It's based on the Quran Chapter sort of Al Baqarah, verse 30, verses 30 to 33. When Allah says that, you know, he taught the names of things to Adam Alayhis Salam and Dr. Suffolk child who develop develop develop an argument called the argument from prior cognitive input, because in order for human thought to have thinking to have
thought to happen, which is the ability to make judgments
Some things you need for necessary conditions. One of them is an external reality a senses that function at distinguishing mind and you need prior cognitive input. And he makes a very powerful argument concerning prior cognitive impairment, he says the possible possible explanations. naturalistic explanations fail such as where did it come from? Did that input come from a human, he talks about the infinite regress, it must be outside of that regress. He talks about a nonhuman animal, he talks about inanimate objects, he talks about natural selection. And so he talks about chance. And he concludes, it must come from a being that has a will that is transcendent, that is
knowing omniscient and so on and so forth.
That what we did, I read his paper, and I put into presentation format, and I got him to assess what I said and add more to it. And it was a phenomenal, phenomenal exercise. This is not directly related to the question, but the reason I'm mentioning is because it's a new powerful quote, and it's based argument that's quite robust. And if people are interested, the usually when live streams go out, they're ready on YouTube in a couple of hours a check on our on our YouTube page in the next couple hours. Check it tomorrow. And you see me and Dr. Suffer Choudry discussing this argument. And it's a very, very powerful argument. And there's more that can be expanded with it as well. The
reason I mentioned this, because you met you mentioned Adam Alayhis Salam and we mentioned evolution, and what's very interesting, one of the gaps of natural selection and evolution, according to this argument, is the kind of there is no explanation Darwinian or naturalistic or explanation that explains the necessity for the prior cognitive input that is necessary for human beings to have thinking, in other words, to be able to form judgments about reality is quite powerful based on the Quran. And that paper should be coming out very relatively soon, I think next year at some point. Anyway, I thought I mentioned that. So check that seminar out, I think you
really like and that's it. That's what we're going to do sapiens. People have got new, great arguments, we bring them on our channel. You know, I spent the morning going through the paper put on presentation, he came on to the seminar, we discussed it, there was some questions. And and yeah, so I think you'll enjoy that. So I just thought we could just push that because I think that's a worthy seminar and Hamdulillah, which was just like we was live just a few hours ago. Oh, yeah.
This is a very good question from Mr. That you pretty you guys produce a lot of content for newbie, where do you begin?
Who wants to take a crack at that? Yeah, so basically, from a learning platform perspective, we're going to be launching the learning platform in December, there's gonna be three main courses on that course number one is no doubt 10 strategies on how to deal with your doubts and the doubts of others. Number two, understand in any order, but number two is awakening the truth within the advanced our training course. And number three is the rules of engagement, you know, the kind of ethics in the way to do Mahanagara according to the Quran and the Sunnah. Logical Fallacies critical thinking, and that was done by Dr. Safak Choudry. So what I would advise you to do is, from a dour
perspective go to awakening the truth within because it does build you it talks about the need for doubt and necessity for Dow the flip of Dow the ethics of Dow the characteristics of the.it goes to the metaphysical backdrop concerning the fitrah, how to awaken the fitrah rational arguments Critical Thinking experience, while those with your worship, different ways to unplowed the fitrah to direct the fifth row so as to allow the fitter to direct itself towards the truth. So that would be a good start from $1. perspective, however, though, there is something that we're going to be putting in place, which is something that even my having he mentioned last year, I believe, and he
was even working on, which was what are the essential elements that you require in order for you to start getting involved in this type of work. And this is not only based from experience, but also based on the need to actually be adequately in tune with Islamic tradition. So some things include, like, you know, a good understanding of the basic of the five pillars of Islam, the six pillars of Eman, basic fic, and so on and so forth. We're going to have, hopefully in December further management, meeting discussions on how we're going to be developing that if we may outsource it or not, or the need to outsource it, or what kind of things we're going to be teaching them because we
appreciate this abroad School of you know, the muda here, and even creedal positions, and so on and so forth. So there'll be some things that we'll have to basically be sensitive and aware of, but not withstanding, that's going to be something that we're that we're going to be putting in place, hopefully in sha Allah, but specifically for do art and or lemma, there is a cost that I've asked the doctor several charges start working on, and also to leave I forgot, I think previously at home to liaise with Sheikh Mohammed recei if I didn't Yeah,
I actually should remind him is a course for the dollar or loon graduates and also the graduates from Alaska University, and from Medina and elsewhere on how to it's very similar to London nearby a little bit different.
It's not like it's not like an enemy poem and going for a commentary. It's literally a face to face course, that's based on notes and multiple choice questions and examinations, on how do they basically take all of the knowledge that they have, that they already have, and apply it in a contemporary sense based on a theme or philosophical context. And that's something that he's working on, he's going to be we're going to be doing Sure, obviously, in sharing with the rest of the brothers as well. And that's going to be something because a lot of there is a sense that a lot of the students have knowledge in the machine. If they're like, What do I do now? I've spent seven
years in the dark room, I've spent 10 years studying, you know, how can I use this? This this book, when I tweeted that I read all this specialization that I have that's based on maybe medieval archaic language or conceptualization, how do I apply it in the real world? So it's more of the bridging the gap. And that's going to be something very powerful, something that is much needed, because we have, for example, we had our own graduate, you know, speak to us who was getting involved in RSC, he want to know how to address some of these issues. And the way we try to empower them the lighthouse mentoring, is we get them to realize that they already have the answers. It's
not about us giving answers because who are we? It's about creating that in the environment of empowerment. So say that you have the answer. But this is how you could tweak a few things. This how you can understand a particular context to apply it in the most appropriate way. So
for for those, we're going to produce something as well. But instead of being a newbie, as you're saying in mind, absolutely. One thing I would say is go when the platform comes out in December, go to the weekend that treats within, but there's always going to be something coming out in sha Allah. If not, we're not If not doing it ourselves will direct you to appropriate resources. But I think we should be we should do some of ourselves for sure. And that's a discussion we're going to iron out hopefully in December and take things forward in Sharla just off my head
Is that for me? Yep.
Factbooks there used to be something or there's something called a hotel mushkil which basically is the idea of an intersex
So yeah, it's not something we need to argue against this acknowledged Misha?
Anything else you want to add to that job?
though? Is that the whole question? Right, it? Yeah. So the first part of the question was, is there something called intersex? So we said yes, it's called the junta, Michigan, there's different kinds of concepts. And in flipbooks, they call it a hunter Mushkin. So it's like intersex that has is all kinds of classification, you know, of this Hamza?
And what is the argument against it? We don't need to argue against it. Like, exists? Is there such a thing as one thought? So we don't disagree that human beings can be born like that.
Hare, bro, you know, I actually had a conversation with my dad about this.
And when I was shocked, he was like it. I think it changed his paradigm when Islam he was like, what it was like, this is, so he said something like, this is great. This is freedom.
He said something like that. So yeah, I was having a discussion, because I was trying to show to him that, you know, we're talking about hierarchy, we're talking about all these modern issues. And as you do with Greek parents, and my sister was that, and then this whole thing on this category of sexuality, if you like, or deposition came up, and I said, Yeah, we have a whole jurisprudence on this is like, Whoa, really, it really was like, Whoa, it really like, you know, it's something very powerful to even talk about, you know, the, the breadth and depth of the FIP. Because, let's be honest, a lot of this stuff needs to be like the physical books need to be updated on these issues.
It's one of the things because the stuff that they define as a hunter mushkil and and like this. Yeah, I mean, some some classifications that folks have written down. Some of them are very problematic because they don't fall into the, the paradigm that modern day intersex people would identify with. And so the fact was that come about
As a result of it, are therefore not applicable to intersex people. So we need people to understand this properly, like muster heads to actually because this is in a sense, these are no as well, because all new new matters that now we know more about intersex people because of the proliferation, or the the increase in population sizes and there's been way more intersex people than ever else in human history. So now that there needs to be fuqaha actually need to go back and and reassess some of the fatawa because some of them are not applicable. So my point is classical books. When When the reality changes, it's not necessarily that you're changing Quran and Sunnah,
but you're basically reapplying the Quran and Sunnah on an unprecedented phenomenon, or an updated phenomenon. But in terms of the point I was trying to make was, from the from the 50, the also the principle perspective, when you show the depth and the applicability of something just like what you just said, which is very powerful, that when situations change,
the dynamism of Islamic law is so profound. And it's like, well, it can address things like Bitcoin, you can address the man on the moon, you can address, you know, all of these unprecedented future phenomena, because it has the ability to do there has that kind of flexibility, if you like, and if any, has that legal framework that you can actually answer questions today, yesterday, and tomorrow. And that sometimes can be very powerful. I remember one person he became Muslim because of Islamic economics. You know, Islamic macroeconomic theory is phenomenal. And he was like, How can a desert Arab come up with this, he was shocked. And he became, he became Muslim because of Islamic
economics. And his suffering for that. Alright, so any other questions?
Yeah, there's loads.
Anyone? Anyway, so we are doing a course on Chris theology with Jake. And we've done some I've done a course already in this material on the website that I've produced, and inshallah there's gonna be more as well. So the answer to that question is yes.
And then there is another one.
Earlier today, there was a live about rationality of atheism and see if you saw that. So I'm guessing it. You did that on streaming? I didn't you? Yes, it's gonna be Yeah. Yeah, for some reason, streaming has a bit of a lag sometimes. And although the live streams already gone, it doesn't show up on the videos section of the YouTube channel for maybe a day or so sometimes, as if you just patient inshallah should pop up.
Why not add an Arabic tab on the website, since you're already translating in Arabic,
or the Hamza ver actually, actually started the Arabic translations yet. But we've done we're doing the Arabic translation of the week in the truth, within course, the advanced our training course. So chef after him, McCarthy is actually going to translate that course and deliver that course. And he's going to be doing some sapient thoughts videos in Arabic to maintenance of direct translations, we have a state that yet the Hmong, we have Spanish and Turkish, but it's also by the way as Turkish translator Alhamdulillah. And we will be having Arabic in the future too. But that's going to grow probably next year after Ramadan, because a lot of these things, you just have to realize it
requires time, and when people give their time, you need to fund that time. So for example, with the translators that are translating from the Arabic to the English, you know, that requires six months of work to translate a book, that's nearly 200,000 words, and you have to check the references and make sure it's accurate. And you have to have the background knowledge, this is a lot of work. So a lot of this would actually require funding.
And especially if you wanted to get it done properly, and for it to be checked and triple checked and ensure that it's robust. So the trends, the translations of essays and writings will come in the form of
Arabic content, we have the Arabic Sapiens Institute YouTube channel, and we're going to have the Arabic course on the learning platform as well in sha Allah.
I'm sure what sources do you guys suggest when it comes to learning Arabic push her as nominally can be in a TV program? Good one.
I'm aware of I'm aware of normally cons being a TV program. I know, one brother or maybe a few brothers, or Muslims that attended that even from the UK, from what I've understood, they
they had a very beneficial and positive experience. I haven't experienced it myself. So I wouldn't be able to you know, make with make much much of a judgment
but in terms of learning Arabic first half, which is classical Arabic, Quranic Arabic, there are a lot of online programs available now. I'll Bellaire do and Verlag Academy do a good program
and you have various other products
grammars that you could engage with so, you know, usually it depends on what their style is. Some people focus a lot on grammar first other people focus on vocabulary. The reason I mentioned this a lot is because Mohammed hijab sent me a voice note telling me off telling me that I have to step up my game and stuff and, and move forward with an Arabic. So this is the reason I'm giving myself the authority to talk buttons that belong because he kicked me out the backside
Alhamdulillah and that's one of the good things with the brothers. You know, we have that type of relationship we care about the dour and we have the relationship where we're committed to each other's well being.
And, and that's very important, and that's and that's why I say to people, culture is far more important strategy. Sometimes you have the right culture and a team, then you know, you know, you're going to achieve things so and the poach is very important. So and the reason he said that because of my further studies now that I'm engaging in postgraduate work, considering the art and science and what's going on maybe to step up your game, so hamdulillah so that's why anyway Not withstanding we have a beloved brother fighter slim I think he's on a break is actually delivering the no doubt course in Sacramento I believe, correct. Masha Allah so talk to us what you've been doing you've
been going on around America bro you've been like flying around buzzing around we need to get your private jet bro. I enjoy
Alright, so the break actually come out to come to an end people already coming in. So just real quick. Just wanted to get my Salam Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah
everyone, everyone that's part of the project everyone who's watching we are in the middle of a course like I said, everyone just coming back from Oster, Salah. It's been a phenomenal course the trip has been phenomenal as well. I think, you know, just from the, I can see the people kind of trickling back in. But I think we had about 100 registrants for this particular no doubt session. And it's been like that. We went to Delaware. We did two sessions in Houston. And we have another one coming up in Chicago, one in Maryland, one in Tennessee. And so it's going all over and then I think it's benefiting a lot of people inshallah. So this is the some of the fruits of what people
have been contributing towards, and some of the work that we've been putting in Inshallah, so I just wanted to chime in. I've actually got to go now Inshallah, but may Allah, Allah make his success pro Amin
Sama, to La Yes, should fight has been basically going up and down America delivering the no doubt course 10 effective strategies on how to deal with your doubts and the doubts of others. And as you know, I mentioned this earlier, you should know that we have a 501. C is a registered charity in America. It says we have sapience in America now and hamdulillah shefa Tasneem has been going up and down the country. And he's been liaising and doing a lot of stakeholder relationship management. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. If you remember what I said in the beginning of today's presentation, when I presented the slides, I spoke about health check analysis, if something is
healthy, make dua for it supported directly indirectly, if it needs replication, replicate if it doesn't, then support it indirectly, indirectly. Also, if something is unhealthy than make it healthy, use the correct means possible to make the Dow healthy. And if there is gaps in the data, then fill the gap. And that's why Sapiens Institute wants to fill the gap with a specific strategic focus, which is basically to educate and empower others on how to share and defend to some academic intellectually, there isn't an intense focus on this issue at the moment. So we want to lead in that and we will, that's what we're doing the learning platform, the London near the courses. And we also
want to show how it's done as well by us ourselves as the art as you know, academics as an institute to show how to academically and intellectually share Islam at the same time. That's a strategic focus. And that is a gap that we want to fill in the kind of English speaking and other languages. Well, dour, so far has been working very hard. And he's actually writing the first half of the book on doubts, which is going to be right in written format, you know, 10 effective strategies on how to deal with your doubts and the doubts of others. Alhamdulillah some Allah bless him.
So, any other questions, guys?
Sorry, mic muted. There's some people waiting in the back. I could start bringing them up if you like. But there was a quick question about the Bosnian book. It's been translated 8% Someone's translated it brother, may Allah bless you and reward you immensely for all of it. But let me see this query, right? Sometimes because of what's happened communication and miscommunication. I gave the authority for two different brothers to translate in the Bosnian language. And I didn't, I didn't realize and then they both finished. And then it was, it was a bit of a as you could tell, though, it wasn't the easiest way of trying to solve that problem. Now, it's already been done. So
I'm assuming they're publishing it very soon. One of them is
from Montenegro believe, but they have the same language and the other brothers are based in Bosnia, I believe as well. So they have already translated the book, My beloved brother. So if you've already done 80% of it, may Allah bless you. My suggestion is this is to complete the translation since you only have 20%. Left, and share it with the brothers that have translated the book already, because they would learn from your translation. So you get the reward because you had the right intention. But also you empower them in some way, because they may learn something from your translation. And you may have translate in a way that is far better. And they could use it as a
or what you can do. But I would first suggest reaching out to them first and asking for not permission, but asking for it have consultation with them, is finishing it and making a free PDF for people to download. But that's up to you, brother, and mellow, make it easy, and mellow, make everything you do a success and make your way very hard skills. I mean, I mean, I mean, so we'll bring the the first guest on our one. Salaam Alaikum.
You need to unmute your microphone, so we can work on sentiment aftermath. Hey, brothers.
Yeah, so I've actually three questions.
The first one is about three. Well, I've read Muhammad Asia, the essay on Sapiens Institute.
I just wanted to ask him actually, if like, the last answer to this topic would be just that we don't have any answer
to this specific question like, because I see a lot of brothers who give example of the teacher and the students. And I honestly see that that it backfires a lot. So it's like a really bad example to give.
Yeah, so thank you for your question. We actually covered this in the last couple of weeks, in quite some detail, even if you go to our live stream last week and the week before.
So you can go onto my channel. And then if you go to the timestamps there, you'll find exactly, you know, a whole lot of discussion on this as well.
Alright, sounds cool. My second question is about the dependency argument. And because there was an atheist on thought adventure podcast, and he said, basically like, like, what if the contingent existence is just codependent in itself, and doesn't really need like a necessary being outside of the universe basically.
Like, you might say, Well, if the universe is composed by like from Paris, then it is like this possibility that there are other universes.
But the answer to that would be like, Why do you assume that there are other universes? Like?
I'm not sure if that makes sense, like from the deterministic, like,
yeah, I don't really understand the question. What's the
other saying that contingent thing made up of contingent parts can still be necessary?
That's what I took from what he said. Yeah, I mean, like, why do we assume that there are other possible worlds? If, if like, the universe itself can be like, the parts of the universe itself can be just codependence like without?
Without the necessity of having like, this necessary being? No, because the codependence itself, we would argue would be irrational. So it's simply that you have contingent parts, and there's some sort of circular dependency, if that's what you're making reference to? So, a depends on B. depends on c depends on a.
Yeah, basically, yeah. Yeah. So that would be like the, you know, the grandfather paradox, it'd be like saying that you have a person and their existence is dependent on their grandson existing.
And so you have this issue. It's like, sir, that you need the existence of a thing.
Before its existence in order for it to exist. Yeah. And notice that is based on the contingency principle, right? That is called the principle of dependency. And listen to this very carefully. And this always solves this problem. This one liner.
Dependent parts always make up dependent holes. I repeat, contingent parts always make up contingent holds. This is a key principle. It's a philosophical principle. If someone denies this, then they have a hell of a lot of, of philosophical work to do to try and prove that principle wrong. Dependent parts always make up dependent wholes. Whether it's a circle whether you think is codependent is irrelevant based on this principle. Yes, the way use was answered is correct, of course. But there's another way of looking as well just focused on this principle, dependent power
I always make up dependent holes. And in for someone to reject that principle, they would have to the onus of proof is on them. Okay, the only thing they could really say to that as well would be the, the fallacy of composition. So they would try to say that, Oh, you're, you've committed a fallacy of composition you're trying to infer, from the past to the whole, now that the question is, is, well, what makes something a fallacy of composition. And generally, its relative qualities. So if you say, you know, I'm making a wall out of small bricks, so therefore the wall is small, the quality of being small is itself
relative. So what might be a small elephant might be a very large cat, or a very large mouse. And so because the quality is relative, then you can't make an inference from the part to the whole. But when it comes to things like dependence, dependence isn't a relative quality. So it's perfectly fine to make a an inference from the part to the whole with this particular quality, because it's not relative in any form.
And then, and with that, as well, to say, like, the bigger question if they want to try to posit this as a possibility is how having a collection of contingent things gives rise to a necessary existence. This is like they can't just posit that, it just seems so bizarre to even suggest such a thing. If you have one laptop, it requires an explanation, it's dependent on things outside of itself for its for its existence, you can have 100, you can have a million, you can have an endless amount of them an infinite amount, all of them still require an explanation outside of themselves beyond the set of dependent things themselves, to explain their existence, and just saying that
they're somehow independent, or interdependent. Like, it's not enough to back away
the need for some sort of explanation outside of this set. And it doesn't make any sense how these things could be interdependent at all. Really. And and you know, when it comes to fallacies, you have to realize this because someone says something is a fallacy, don't don't buy it. Because you have to most fallacies are applied, you have to apply them. Because in many contexts are not fallacious. So there's a quant exact ad hominem is fallacious. For example, cussing the person and not the argument, right, is fallacious, because you got to do with his argument, but there are some scenarios where if the person is a bad person, and ad hominem is a very good argument, right? In
many cases, and you can think of many scenarios, yeah. So when this whole thing when people start to say that you have an error in reasoning, because of some hidden false assumptions, or because of your, your, your false inference, or the you haven't made a valid conclusion, be careful, don't say, oh, my god, how am I going to deal with this? I apply it to the scenario. And usually you find out that actually, it doesn't make sense. So in the case of as use of rightly said, the principle dependency doesn't fall into the kind of ever a reasoning, which is called the fallacy of composition. Because exactly what you said, and I remember, I think we did a webinar on this, and we
gave it an example of a brick wall. So a brick wall is made of the individual parts, which are hard, therefore, the wall is hard. Now, that's not a fallacy. The fallacy would be if you're saying the Persian rug is made of individual threads, and the individual threads are light in weight, therefore, the whole rug is light in weight, that would be fallacious, because some patient rug is extremely heavy, right, especially the expensive ones. So that will be the fallacy at play here. So I just wanted to raise that because sometimes in the dour, some of the throw these terms, and even if you don't know them, don't worry. Just say would you mean, give me an example. Explain that to
me. And once you start doing that, if I apply in this case, then you realize if this fallacy can be applied, or not, in actual fact, we're going to deliver a webinar, a seminar, hopefully, when the learning platform comes up, it's going to be an introduction to critical thinking.
I'm going to share the slides with use of because he's got some really juicy material. I saw it on his laptop when he came to the office that day. So I'm going to send him the slides have done on critical thinking and I'll get him to expand it and maybe we'll do a double double double whammy. Double double whammy. Dr. Usman Latif is only to leave I just wanted to throw that in there. Now see, because we need to leave just just slowly drop your mute doctor. I think
I think the guys that like football is like 25 plus two in the morning, but you're like, everyone could be frozen or if he's just ready
to go can go and Hamdulillah I love the show, she can say I wanna come
yeah, yeah. So basically, I think the I think the the issue was the, with the example that was given. So the example was basically the the choice between taking like a hot chocolate and tea, for example, like iced tea or something like that. And then was this if I take hot chocolate is because it's hot. And I'm cold, so I need something hearts. So, but the at home was like, well, you can take the hot chocolate just because you choose to you don't really have you normally need a reason why you take. It could be just because you've chosen to and that's it. You don't really need like, an explanation to it. So I think that was his argument. But But you said totally makes sense. I guess.
What's the recent conversation with Alexander? Yeah, you're gonna be doing like a review to it? i Yeah, sure. You've just messaged me now I'm so looking forward to.
Again, tell me whether Sharif we're going to see we can get the other brothers on as well to do the review.
At the moment, at minimum, it's going to be me and Sharif. And we'll have a little go over that conversation and delve into it and a lot more detail. Inshallah. But the the conversation itself went really well. I think, at some point, he conceded to the existence of some sort of necessary it says, I don't think he's done in a previous stream before. So there was a lot of progress that was made in that conversation. Yeah, I think I think it was like one of the live streams that I've watched, like, for the four hours, it was just so yeah, it was a big one. It
was amazing. Yeah, I have one last question. And And before that, I just want to say to Muhammad, he said, I've read your article about the fuel, the essay, and the law, the last paragraph was just really touching when he said, like, why people take this scholar as something that is limiting them, and they have issue with it, when it's actually I feel that is protecting me. So those like,
before that I just wanted to add something I was needed before, um, couldn't say anything. But I want to add something on the fallacy of composition that was mentioned before, which
is, I think there's two ways I like to argue for this, this, you can argue for this cosmologically. And by that I mean with reference to empirically understood things. And or you could argue for this ontologically. And the philosophy of religion. What I mean by ontology is that which can be conceived of in the mind. So, abstractly, a priori, I think, that Max, etc.
If we go with the first one, so for example, to say that
cosmologically. So the parts a whole distinction. Obviously, in order for someone to claim that something is a fallacy of composition, someone has to have a perfect knowledge of the whole,
for example, in the example of the elephant is big, but his parts are small, you know, that elephant is big.
And you know that the parts are small, that the problem with apply this to the universe is that we don't know, we don't have, we don't have a full knowledge of the whole of the universe, especially in relation to us outside of it. So that's, that's the first issue. The second issue is this is that we don't need to know, because what we are saying is the argument from composition, because we are making an argument from composition. And the argument goes as follows. That anything that is made up of parts is generated. Anything that is made of parts is generated, the universe is made out of parts, therefore the universe is generate. Anything that is made out of parts is generated a
multiverse, say an infinite multiverse is made out of parts, therefore, an infinite multiverse is generated. And he could put instead of the word generate dependent, and that's fine as well. How do we defend that? We say that look,
if the part isn't there, the whole isn't there. And so, in many ways, if you don't have, if you don't have universes, you can't have a multiverse. So the the construct of a multiverse, it wholly depends on its constituent parts in order for it to be meaningful. If it didn't have its constituent parts, that it wouldn't be meaning wouldn't be a meaningful construct. So it can be conceived therefore, that it can be some things can be removed from it, and some things can be put onto it.
So that's the way I would argue for it. cosmologically ontologically, I would say, anything that could be conceived of in another way.
And it's contingent that the universe can be conceived of in another way, therefore, the universe is contingent. I'm putting it in the context of what multiverse or an infinite multiverse, anything that can be
conceived of in another way, is contingent, a multiverse and infinite multiverse can be conceived of in another way. Therefore, an infinite multiverse is contingent. What do I mean by can be conceived of in another way? I mean to say that no absurdity would occur
if you remove or if you change things which are in that universe slash multiverse, and the Quran indicates to this reality, Allah subhanaw taala mentions Walcott halacha to come and Kabul olam Takashimaya, we have created you before that you weren't anything, meaning
anything which is so we know absurdity occurred when we didn't exist in the form that we exist. And so someone could argue, well, actually, will we always exist in some energy form.
But I'm not talking about some energy form, I'm talking because energy cannot be created or destroyed. I'll say that, in the form that I exist, I didn't exist there years ago, as simple as that, we'll say, one, day two, three, whatever, 100 years ago, none of us have the stream exists. And so the point is, is that if you can imagine taking something out of existence, and that no absurdity would occur, then this indicates the contingency of that existence. Obviously, if something has a beginning, then that indicates contingency as well, because there's something that an A emerged. So something which is necessary, cannot be necessary at some points, but not
necessarily other points, because necessity indicates eternally, although eternally does not always indicate necessity. So two plus two equals four is unnecessary fact. Okay, and that would mean to say that you assume that two plus two equals four is true, past, present, and future. So it's necessarily true and eternally true. And so, if we apply these things to the universe in the multiverse, it's just a kind of argue, you can argue that these things are necessary and independent, in those in those in those ways. And, and the fallacy of composition, therefore, is not
a sufficient response. Because even if we agree, it can be fallacious, if understood cosmologically.
It you cannot argue against the ontological reality. And you can even make this argument mathematically, you can say that any set more than one, any set more than one is contingent on its members in order to is contingent on its members.
An infinite set is a set more than one therefore, an infinite set is contingent on its members. So the multiverse idea can even be seen to be mathematically incoherent. If if you want to say that something which is contingent can be something which is
necessary, something which is made out of parts, and all members, because numbers are the mathematical equivalent of parts in this in set theory format. We can't say that, the therefore,
because the compositional fallacy, the fallacy of composition, is really only applicable to cosmological realities. But once we transfer the situation to ontology, then you have a double problem, because we've argued this point now, not just
not just cosmologically, but we can argue this point, when a priori grants,
the only the only one thing one can do is try to say that actually,
the universe can be cannot be conceived of in another way, that it cannot be rearranged in another way that and what we mean by that, of course, it can be conceived of in another way.
Because no logical absurdity with absurdity would occur if things were taken out of or put into the universe, which are also contingent. So if things can be taken out of and put into a universe, which is and no logical absurdity would occur, that would indicate that it's not necessary that the job is done.
And the fact that the universe is one way or not another.
Now, if someone says, some do that, what about the laws of nature? Why can they not be necessary? I say that even if you say that the laws of nature are necessary, which is something I don't agree with, but let's just say for the sake of argument, I don't see that as threatening to the postulation that there's a necessary existence, because the category of fact, is different to the category of existence. We're in the latter, there's only one such existence. And the former, there can be many such facts. We don't we don't see an issue, because all these necessary facts
ultimately depend on an unnecessary existence. That is because the category of existence it is more foundational than the category of facts.
Because facts first have to exist before they can be. So is the category of existence and in fact, the most foundational category of all transcendental categories that can be envisaged.
So for that reason, if we can establish that there's only one necessary existence, then having necessary facts, doesn't do anything to undermine that theory or thesis, or threaten it.
I don't think I don't see or think of any other kind of interrogations that can be made to the
contingency argument except for those that I've mentioned. And it's simple. Without the parts, the whole cannot be. I mean, the reason why we're gonna put an articulation that you know, anything that to be fair, I'm sources.
Also, Joshua Simpson has exactly the same articulation in his book, how reason needs to go he said, dependent parts lead to dependent holes, he said exactly same thing. But I know that these, many of these unfaithful and belligerent atheists would jump on this as this articulation as a way to try and say it's a fallacy of composition.
So instead, I would prefer myself I would prefer to say something like,
I was for someone like that. Anything that is made out of parts. And by that we mean something that can be detached or attached to something, because there's more than one mere logical definition of the word POC. But let's say something which can be attached attached to something.
The removal of those parts, indicates the dependency of the thing, the removal of or addition of those parts,
indicates the dependency of that thing, and dependency on what dependency on those parts themselves. Because if those parts are removed completely, then the thing ceases to exist. And if and if the thing can cease to exist, then the thing cannot be necessary. So if it's conceivable that that aren't, we call me just say to them that even if they try and
apply the fallacy of composition on the dependency principle, we could say to number it can't be applied. Because the fallacy is not it's not a fallacy that applies to every scenario, you have to give a specific example. So another distinction that you have made
between what do you say you serve, you call it relational?
relative qualities. So like when we're talking about, for example,
the whether or not something is big or small? It is that notion of bigness depends on what you're talking about, saw a big cat might be a small elephant, even though they're the same size. What was it? Like? If they say, red bricks, red wall?
disparity, what is that? What what why the fighting about what it was first word is already sighs
Yeah, so relative would just be like, if you change the the context of the thing, that the output could be different.
So like, for example, if you're talking about color here, color is also dependent on things like lighting and things like that. So the individual bit brick might be red. But then like, when you blow it up to a huge scale, the lighting might not be the exact same, obviously, you're going to be talking about different differences, their distances and things like that. So it's not necessarily the case.
I don't know. Because I think with the quantum, especially with quantum examples, they will be able to bring I'm not a specialist on quantum physics, but they may be able to bring non relative
competitors that undermine that general principle. That's, I don't know, I don't know it yet. But unless we think about all the
the quantum reality there, they could even have interpretations that even the laws of logic break down as well, then we're stuck.
I don't know, I would use that I would personally use what I said. Because the thing is, if, as I would say is, is an Adam, just another cool? If it's conceivable that the part can be removed, then it can, it's conceivable that the whole can be removed. You Jeff, I was very interested in your abstract objects necessary facts issue. So you're right in philosophy, if something is necessary, existing, it has to be eternal, but it doesn't follow that just because something is eternal is necessarily existing, but from the point of the Islamic Arpita. And this is something I actually haven't gone into. So I'm just literally just trying to pick your brain here. The concept of
abstract objects in metaphysics, the concept of like, numbers, not one plus one
is equal to two in every possible universe. And that's like an eternal fact, if you like, how does not how does that not undermine the Islamic position? The only eternal entity, the only attainable thing, if you like, is ALLAH SubhanA wa taala. So, first of all, that's not given. So different scholars have different understandings of that. So what I can tell me was, was more lower conceptualist framework. So he would say something like two plus two equals four, as being a truth is only the case in someone's mind, let falafel have
like a psychological ism or something like conceptualism, he's, he would say that it's for this level Holige. That's exactly what he actually said. This is, for example, numbers and logic, the laws of logic, all those abstract things. His idea was his physician level heart is in the mind, and it's not in the outer world. Well, exactly. Interestingly, had the Griffo seems to believe that he was a nominalist. But it's a difficult position to hold. Nevertheless, you could you could even interpret it as early as being somewhat of a nominalist. So in the sense, two plus two equals four, Does it even exist? So, you know, many, many of the Islamic thinkers, scholars and Alama would doubt
in the real world would
argue that they would say that two plus two equals four is not, it's not a thing, it's something you can only think about, but it doesn't exist. And therefore, to compare it as an it's as a shape as a thing that you can compare with Allah is nonsensical in the first place, because it's not in a hydrogen, l hydrogen, Mo DOI is not out there in the real world. So two plus two equals four couldn't even take me up. And could be argued as well, according to Ghazali doesn't exist, it simply doesn't exist. It just exists in the mind, at most. So they will say, because it doesn't exist in the real world. And that sense, it's not a competitor to Allah in His
in His eternality.
Are there any scholars who ground these
these facts in the Divine? So there is some still some type of dependency? And is there a discussion on if you reject,
like abstract objects or necessary facts, then wouldn't that lead therefore, that key logical facts and logical principles actually could be wrong, they're just in the mind. And if they could be wrong, then
it could be the case metaphysically that something can exist and not exist at the same time? Because the law of contradiction is a logical facts. And if it's a logical fact, and you just save space, on your mind, then and it's not in every possible world, you feel like it's not like a necessary fact. And that would lead to other problems now, could do and that's a good argument against even Taymiyah.
Certainly, you know, and I'm saying this, because I've been speaking to Dr. stuff on this, and he basically wants to make the Islamic intellectual apologetics as metaphysically free as possible, because the minute you get into those areas, because he argues, I don't know if this is true or not that most of the LMR would always look into the empirical world in order to articulate they weren't empiricists per se. Obviously they have we had our own metaphysics, but
they would basically, always look at the empirical stuff as the Quran postulates, have you not seen looking or looking to the interconnecting principles of nature, then try and be as metaphysically free as possible? Because this is an area which is very interesting, and I think it needs an answer, because it could undermine the whole argument itself.
Yeah, but remember, like, you know, that I feel like there's two sides of this, it's like, and I would be a plate inist and say that these things exists, like what this was a land of form somewhere else. And well, the forms were two plus two equals four exists in some form, you know, and, or you can take a nominalist position where you're not saying it doesn't exist. You're just saying that it doesn't exist as a universal category, or an abstract thing outside in the real world. And it will take me I was closer to the anomalous side. He was probably a conceptualist. That's probably what he was. I certainly could be argued to be somewhere near there as well. It was rushed could be like he
was close to that as well, in many ways. And so it really depends on who you're looking at. As long as he though he was making arguments against me on this point.
And this is not a point of like, oh, how Dakedo these are just thinkers philosophizing. Yeah, that's why I was asking because it's something that I haven't gotten into. Yet, by the way
did you go gym today? Because the angle here? It looks like your chest?
Or is it just the angle of the camera?
This is about to hit me in the face.
Is my chest possible in every possible universe?
In every universe?
I've gained too much weight, man. I've got the hell I'm doing. I just
don't have a problem showing it bro.
I'm moving on to 125 kilos. Oh, whoa.
No, man. I've been fasting as well, a little bit
more like 120 kilos on 121. But
I rescue myself. I get to like 125 Heavy, we need you healthy. We need you healthy, bro.
I'm over, you know? Okay, so there's many, many other people. Listen, guys, it's almost 3am for me. And I have like, a question. Do you see that? What I said about the about the pots on host? Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I think I like to, because what you're trying to do, you know, you're a strategic thinker. So what you're trying to do is bypass any counter argument from any any domain of knowledge, whether it's the quantum, or whatever the case may be, I still think use of my perspective can work. But you just have to do more work. That's it. But you'll want it's like, you know what, I'm gonna bypass all of that.
We summarize the position made the cosmological terms in one sentence and tell me what
if it can be imagined that the thing can be taken apart to a point of non existence, and I think it'll be necessary.
These beads right here, these these beads right here.
Now, there's 33 beads on this thing. Okay? Now, if someone says this thing is necessary, I'll say about can it be imagine it's made out of 33 beats five, take one beat up, second beat third bit like keep taking them out. And by pop, I mean, something which can be attached or detached? If it can be imagined, that the thing can be the parts can be taken out to a point of non existence, then it's impossible for me to call this thing necessary. Because if it's necessary, there's no point in time where it cannot exist. Yeah, so applying that
to the the universe, for example. Yeah, we can see that its parts do come out of existence and can come back into existence, etc. And so if that is the case, if you can remove a part of it, then the whole can't be necessary. That's, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. If we say, into a multiverse, if we have, like, let's say 100 billion multiverses. But if it can be imagined that you can take one out, then the second, third fourth,
up until whatever 10, that the multiverse is not a cannot be necessary. Yeah, even if it was an infinite amount, if you take out bit by bit by bit, and it can be imagined that the removal of parts, the systematic removal of parts can terminate in its non existence. If that's conceivable, then that thing cannot be necessary, by definition, because it depends on those parts. I totally agree. It's nice, but I think you're you're, you're logically mirroring exactly the dependency principle
of Iran. Yeah, but it's the same thing. So for example,
if if, if all the parts were necessary, inverted commas, you wouldn't be able to remove them because they couldn't be otherwise. It's impossible for them not to not to exist, right.
So the dependency principle is dependent parts make up dependent holes, because the logical mirror of that is that.
Yeah, I've confused myself. But basically what it sounds like, is that you just mirroring the dependency principle. Does that make sense? But in the other way around?
I totally understand what you're saying. The only thing is I? Yeah. Like you said, I just don't want them to come back and say, What are you doing? The fallacy of composition, like what? My dependency principle was designed to bypass the fallacy, the fallacy as well. That's that was the point because for them to do that, they have to basically, you know, deny something that is self evidently true. And there'll be a lot of owners, by the way, I totally agree with what you're saying. I just, I'm just thinking of it. Like I'm thinking of myself in a debate and yeah, I agree. This is
like a coffee shop. No, absolutely. I totally agree.
Okay, that's brilliant. Did you mention this? You mentioned this in the book hanya. In your book, forthcoming, yeah. And what I just said to you guys, now in the book,
okay, brilliant. That's very good.
There's something under the law and you talk about the, the tunnel logical facts or abstract objects. Yeah, I'm sure that. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. Um, my, my when I'm when we're gonna read it, review it and get ready
in the final form
I'm gonna get, you're gonna get feedback on it, right? Yeah. Yeah. So obviously you're gonna incorporate some of the feedback so then we'll read it then inshallah properly 100. That's really good. Any chance to be putting it into the little group chat? I'd like a little sneak preview of that, inshallah. Yeah, we've got the Sapiens group. Absolutely. Do we do a wider review? No problem.
Okay, so listen, guys, I'm gonna go it's like, nine minutes to three in the morning for me.
Every single one of you.
You're more than welcome to take.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We have we got Yasser al Hanafy. Here, Chef, we have to bring him on board. I'm going to bring him on. Can I just make a comment about the way
Habibi there's a chef come on board. You have to be patient. Yeah. Okay. Two or three questions. So meet yourself just for 10 minutes. Mila, bless you. I was just gonna say Milan, because we've got quite a lot of people on in the back. You've already asked two questions would you mind if if you'd like to ask more, maybe try to book a lighthouse session in sha Allah and you can have like a one to one with someone just to sort of make it a bit even and allow other people would
slow it to
share I know your personal not to bring the personal stuff out in the open but I know you've been calling me consistently I do apologize. I have been kind of traveling and there's been other bits and pieces going on. My intention. I think I even had it in my notes to call you today. And so please forgive me chef. I'm gonna call you tomorrow. No, sha Allah.
I'm saying this because I want people to know
I've been in combat
and not giving your rights. And
I I usually sleep at 10 o'clock. So my voice is a bit croaky. But when I when I heard your last your synopsis of the work that's been doing as I have to join and I have to say Zack malachite and all you brothers and our chef Idris and Kurata we happy the qumola Sad Chroma Kamala and Brother Mohammed hijab and all you with as much doing communal work for the liquefier and so many people are benefiting Malala protect you Allah Tala give you more him MINUSTAH calm Inshallah, what you're doing. Just a quick question, if I may. I've been
I've been thinking about this recently, you know, the
theological argument, namely the argument from design.
So, so what I've learned from my teachers, from my limited reading, usually this argument of design is mainly used in the cifre of errata, for example. So when it comes to the CFR of money, Allah subhanaw taala as qualitative attributes, they usually use this argument very briefly when it comes to Errata. So Allah subhanaw taala, having a will, and he is him being a Marine, they use the argument that look, here he is particularize is it sees of the MaHA Luke in this way, and there are many other ways where the creation could have been created. However, I'm seeing this argument now being used as the main argument for Allah's existence.
So, so, I mean, Can somebody explain to me you know, why, why an argument which in the classical theology was only used of the men or maybe as a secondary argument in ACYF of Allah now being used as a as a main argument for the existence of Allah? Is the question is a curse as a question clear? Is a question. I think so. of our
lab, and my my postulation and I also want you to correct me if I'm if my ideas about this is wrong. I spoke to one of my teachers. So he said this, he wasn't sure he was a conjecture. It was it, I think, is this, that the new there's a group of who are proponents of element Colombia Jared?
The new dialectical theology and some people say the person behind is surely not a man who's got a book in one column Jared, and they will
influenced by empiricism made, namely John Locke.
And Kant, for example.
So, so So these guys were influenced by them. And because they believe in your claim to be in only an empirical data, and they sort of, they reject your team for rationalism, therefore they use the design argument, because in the design argument, you know, there's empiricism, and it's not entirely abstract, like the Bouhanni to be can you have the,
you know, borderline of the self, so in the classical cosmological argument in column, so because of this, they've shifted towards the design argument. This is this is what I heard from one of my teachers, and I didn't say anything, because I don't know myself. But you guys, because I've heard this argument from one of you, but there's too, and some of the academics that they're putting forward this design argument, as though this is the main argument or Well, the main arguments for Allah's existence.
By images, there's a few things you said I want to do one by one, because I might forget the first issue of tassies or spesification, or particularization, being used as a main argument, in terms of the Western Academy in the philosophy of religion, it's not like Texas is almost completely absent in the discussion, especially used apologetically to try and prove God's existence was used instead is kind of types of teleological or fine tuning arguments, which are different, because as you mentioned, as CeCe was meant by the SHA, Allah and other people who use them, in this argument, as a means to try and prove Allah subhanaw taala as,
as, as a is a rather his will.
So this is classically how Bakula and he uses it, and how he uses it, and so on.
So it's not a small term memory, it's not something which is something which is
something the only supplementary rather than asleep at night.
And in terms of the fine tuning arguments or teleological arguments, usually the wit, like, there's a few scholars out there that make the argument,
to be honest, well, I don't like and I think the whole Sapiens, and this is we, I mean, Hamza sources has done some really good work on this, and I believe, rightfully so. And so what I'm gonna do as well, is to show the courage ability, and of science and you know, the under determination, the theory relatedness and all this kind of things, as a result of all of that, if one, if we're, if we're saying all of these things, especially in the context of Darwinian evolution, then when Baba Allah, we say the same thing with physics, because physics is more volatile than biology. Even more, you could argue, yeah, it's arguable, but it's even more volatile than way more volatile. So to us,
as because in the academy. Now, what they do with the fine tuning argument, is they they will basically get the constants. So you have like, for example, the electromagnetic constant, yeah. Or you have the gravitational constant. Yeah.
And they'll say that these, these constants are finely tuned. The problem with using the constants is that what if someone revises those? What if someone says there's no such thing as the electromagnetic concept? What if someone what if someone develops a theory,
that theory of everything, which which bridges between quantum mechanics and macro physics, which may renders what is referred to as the electromagnetic constant, or the gravitational constant, as Meaningless, meaningless things, or things which don't have any value? In this case? I'm not going to say all of the fine tuning argument becomes undermined because it wouldn't be because that's not the whole slot, the entirety of the fine tuning argument, especially not how a lot of people making but much of it will be undermined. And why should we put them in a position that has the hustle or the Morticia kick or whoever the skeptic why should we put them in a position where they can use
scientific data which is changing against us and then
so we go back to the Quran, the Quran when it makes this argument?
You know, so Allah Allah, Allah Shea, health TermInfo. Look, if there's any gaps, Allah has perfected everything will lead the asana coalition and halka who are Halacha, who has to revise of the car, over the Acropolis and two and so on, but he's the one who perfected everything is is the Quran is indicating the uniformity in the stability and the regularity of nature. That's why I started helped along with photos, there's no gaps, meaning Allah Subhana Allah has made the creation stable, uniform and predictable. This bow Oh, this
I don't know this. This watch is not blowing up right now.
You see this watch that I'm worried it's not blowing up in my face right now it's not blowing up. Now, the fact that the watch is not blowing up now,
and that it won't blow up in the next five minutes or two minutes or one minute, and then blow up in the last minute. That's a presupposition of science. That's why because stability, regularity, and predictability is something you need in order to do science rather than something you discover from it. This is the argument made by John Holden, by the way, ha, ha, LDA. And he, and he was in a back and forth was one of the atheists and one of books that I read. And so, regularity, stability and uniformity, okay, are things which you need in order to do science, it's not something you discover through science. And so if you make the argument using terms like this, it's way more foolproof than
mentioning the electromagnetic constant or the gravitational constant, which at best should be used as supplementary pieces of information.
And that was, maybe should not be used at all. Because once again, we don't know if these things are gonna change. Because science really is volatile. Like it really, if you look at the history of it, well, like the more you look at it, the more you realize, it's not a South Korea powerful argument. And Christopher Hitchens, he said, it's the most powerful argument. And so therefore, some serious they're so eager to use it because he Hitchens, gave it the sample of his approval, by Hitchens and slump, he doesn't have anything to do.
What was finished, he's tiny, I told him,
I totally agree with you say if anyone wants to use an argument, it has to be conceptualized properly. And it has to be done in a way that is not your main argument, it should be supportive at best. But I think I like what you said about one of the assumptions in the philosophy of science, the assumptions of science is that the uniformity of nature, meaning
the nature is uniform, they need this assumption in order for us to have any element any positive knowledge in science. For example, you have a well confirm theory that is successful, has predictive power, and so on and so forth has a lot of confirmations, and people confirmations. They say that a welcome from theory is can be applied to all the phenomena that he addresses, but theories by virtue of the limited observations that they have the limited confirmations that they have, they cannot address all of the phenomena. For example, there's only a mechanism that when a mechanism deals with evolution, evolution means biological change. And the Darwinian mechanism is supposed to explain
biological change. Now base and sit and they say that the Darwinian mechanism is well confirmed has empirical confirmations, and it has and it has predictive power. So they conclude based on the assumption that nature is uniform, therefore, the Darwinian mechanism is an explanation for all of biological change, but they haven't observed or vulnerable to change by
observing 90% of the oceans, for example, or species that used to exist don't exist anymore. If you didn't have this assumption that nature is uniform, you can never have positive knowledge in science, you can never say the Darwinian mechanism explains biological change in totality, or you could say is, it only explains that which we have observed directly, nothing else, and we can't make
You can use that you could say to them, that your assumption in science Oh, atheist, all Darwinian, your assumption was that nature is uniform? What is his uniform uniform? He come from the very, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do not can I add to that?
So, so so so I just wanted to echo he said, I agree. I think I wrote, I wrote about this in my book as well. And I did make the context that this is a supplementary argument.
And the way I tried to do it was is things that are very unlikely going to change that there are some things that you know, when we talk about science, we have to be careful. Yes, there's the problem of induction, this theory relatedness under determination, and so on and so forth.
We need to be very careful because it can have some contradictions with our own epistemological paradigm as well. You know, are we are we going to say that germ theory is going to change in the future? This is almost highly unlikely. It's like it to be honest, you could you need to be consistent, because if we say like, oh theory, we're not going to accept germ theory, because of the philosophy of science. But it's so well confirmed to reject it could be epistemologically equivalent of rejecting sahih Hadith.
Honestly, yeah. So we have to be a bit careful.
So although generally speaking, yes, working from theories, you know, can still change this is part of the philosophy of science, for sure. Absolutely.
But there are some areas and it's very few. It's not everything. There are some areas we have to be careful about. We can't say everything is going to be taken from a skeptical perspective, or we're instrumentalist about everything. Some things. I'm not saying we have to be realist, but some things we have to say, you know, what? We can't necessarily reject. Because you may even have theological implications based on our own epistemology, right? Like, no, who's going to reject germ theory?
You know, so, so yeah, yeah. So I was gonna save it on that point. You know, the way that Craig, for example, and there's, I think there's another Collins, he's, he's probably the one that's most Loudon Academy doing this.
This function is about Craig, because he's popular online, he makes the argument that, you know, the universe is fine tuned for human life, or for any life. That can either be through design, it could be from necessity, it could be through chance. It can't be through, it can't be through necessity. And it can't be through chance, therefore must be through design. That's that's classically how the thing his argument is made. I don't think this there's two things I would do to change this argument number one.
Yeah, the the universe is fine tuned for life, true grid. Now how he comes to establish that I change it, instead of saying, it's through the electromagnetic.
And you know, all these things that you know, the constants are these constants, gravitational constants, instead of using that, I will say, in so much as uniform, regular and stable. So it's uniformity, regularity and stability is such that allows life to exist number one, instead of saying, because what's the point of mentioning all these constants, which can change? The second thing was, she says, for example, it can either be some could either be through necessity, or it can also be food necessity, or it can be through design or chance.
I would say that necessity is not a threat to it being from design. And in fact, I when I spoke to Alister McGrath, funnily enough to talk about les McGrath today, I told him this, I had a conversation with him, I said, Why does it have it seems like a false dichotomy. Because when when Craig says, it can either be through design, or it can be through necessity or design indicates that design and necessity are two separate things. But it's possible that it can be through necessity and design at the same time, especially if you consider that the designer is determining it to be that like that. So it's not necessarily like that. If the determiner even if you consider that the
determinant is an uninterrupted line of causal events, or an antecedent line of causal chain chain of events. It's not a contradiction to have necessity. And
we call it necessity and,
and design so that I feel I feel like that, first of all, that's a false dichotomy. I would say it can be through and chance is something which doesn't exist, actually, I would say is for for that person to prove what chances in the first place something upon a microscope. So therefore, I think that, you know, I think it's a form of hidden cover to give them the three options. Because what do you mean from chance? Well, this chance, I say, it's impossible that can come from chance. And I say, it's impossible that it can come from
my claim is that it's impossible to come from anything other than
what I've described, which is the necessary existence. And that will be the first I mean, yeah, you know, the whole chance thing.
You know, and this is like, for people who are listening, you could use this as a kind of approach and method for the dour. When the throw the chance, kind of hypothesis or explanation for these realities, stand back from one moment and accept it in abstract or accept it abstractly and think, Okay,
what, what is similar? So the question we're asking says about God's existence or about contingency or whatever you want to call it? What is similar to this question that they do not use chances and explanation. So when you realize there are similar questions or areas of knowledge, they don't use chance, they actually seek a rational explanation. And yet for this one that's slightly similar. They use charts. This exposes some
preconceived notions about reality, exposes a psychological perspective on the question or exposes hidden presuppositions. Why am I saying this? Because it's the art of it, dialogue or discussing with someone when someone throws an explanation for one moment, look at that explanation and see the same chance as you find how they use the similar explanation in this case chance to apply to questions that are similar that we're discussing now.
If they haven't, then there's a massive inconsistency. Can I?
Cancel question? Sorry, I just wanna fish on this doctor stuff child, you made a really good point about chance on the previous seminar we had about.
And he says think about chance, he said this. And this is quite interesting. The major problem with this possibility is that it is not remotely clear how chanc can do anything, Charles is not metaphysically a thing, an entity, it has no being and is not a cognizing potency or power. It is a term that is inadvertently endowed with the creative power and efficacy and efficacy, in fact, for chance to be a candidate of inputting D and D for him meant prior cognitive input would be to grant an opposite pervasive power reserved only for something that we would describe as living. To do this, however, is to commit the fallacy of reification, which consists of attribute in concrete
characteristics to something non concrete or abstract. By arguing that chance did X created y and selected Zed obscures something deeper taking place. And that is making chance a cause when it is merely a symmetrical possibilities in abstract are, in effect, to attribute charts as causing for originating D is tantamount to saying nothing originated D. You know, that's very powerful. You know why I was thinking? I was thinking,
I was thinking along the same lines, you know, you know?
Because we were having this conversation on time, or suborder? Actually, like, I don't know, if you remembers, but we were talking about, you know, because evolutionarily, they do the same kind of thing. They talk about predictability and stuff. And possibly. And my question is, what are they saying the null hypothesis? And and the answer is zero. Like they're making zero. And so this zero, which is basically like, okay, let's assume that, when I say zero, I mean, everything is happening haphazardly. This is the idea. So let's assume that everything is happening without reason. That assumption needs to be justified in and of itself. Because Why are you saying the null hypothesis on
zero? Why are you why are you making zero? You have no right to make that the case you that's that is a and postulation. That requires justification. And they've just they've thrown it in there. So when we say that always chance, what do you mean by that? You're saying that let's set the null hypothesis on zero. Like if we're talking about because in mathematics, they've got total probability. And they've got like base theory and stuff like that. All right, well, total probability what we're talking about, I will talk about statistical properly. Or, for example, if I say to you, that 20% of 50% of the public is likely to smoke cigarettes, what am I saying that 50%
of the public does smoke cigarettes. In other words, I look at the demographics and see how many people smoke cigarettes, therefore, there's 50% of the population is likely to smoke cigarettes is based on the fact of the matter rather than what happened of a prediction. So it would be arguing in a circle, almost, if you try to use a fact of the matter to prove effective amount. So in other words, if you want to use total validity, or statistical probability, and and say that, well, you know, there's such a thing now as zero as being a zero, legitimately put in as a null hypothesis. That to me would suggest, I as the doctor said, Chowdhry,
he mentioned his now is to give almost agency to this haphazardness, which makes no sense to me at all. So the idea of chance being an option, I resist that, I feel like that should be resisted. Because it's not just fight. Chance is the substitute of God. That's the God basically, when they say chance, all I'm hearing is that now you've just replaced the name of God with this word chance. And but you have nothing. You have nothing substantive to offer. But you are seeing that there is no I'm looking for an explanation. But there is no explanation. That's what they're basically saying. Why is this relevant enough in the first place? So what we're talking about, he's talking about the
universe, why is there a universe and there's like, why is there a universe in the first place? You can't say it came from chance? So that chart is charts, chance is not a good explanation for explaining the it's not even if it's not even a possible explanation for whoever and nothing but yet, we're using the same chance to try and explain why the US is one is the way it is that allows left most of the design argument just going a little bit of a tangent. They were the ones who are proponents of the design argument, they would say that they using an epistemic probability, that epistemic probability that is far more likely that there was a designer and they would say this is
not an empirical study.
They would actually say it's a metaphysical thesis, by the way. So shall we also, just to talk about your point, there are some conceptions of the design argument that, yes, empirically driven, but it's actually a metaphysical argument. They say.
They say, they say design is a metaphysical thesis. He says Just Just on that point is a metaphysical but isn't the design design the main reason why they make the inference onto God? So basically, that's one of the one of the objection on on them. Yeah, but yeah, no, we just started to take it as a permission of you guys barnacle of Yukon hijab, or the Lancome all of you guys are not Allah bless you guys. Allah protect you and start just one final. In a few words, if you can give this student who's got love giver and a lot of Riyadh few words in the sea that I'm going
no one can see her. See her the CIA is for all of the Muslims and Hadith. So you can reject now you have to give me a CNN I'm official.
Yes, so I
was, I think, I think it was one of my beloved scholars. His name was chef Hanafi. He once said about remind,
remind each other about our sins.
And I think that's extremely important. Because, you know, I think it was Hassan bursary, one of the famous scholars of Islam, he was asked about humility. And he said, humility is to walk outside your house and to believe that every Muslim is better than you until you go Buddhists.
Right, which is quite interesting. Because it makes me assume that you're not going to think that your wife is better than you.
Because you only think when you look at the size of the house, but when you come back in you're still better. I'm going to show you that just just just just just a friendly point. You know, what about my teachers he said the class obviously this is not written in the hadith of Quran was digital, just his personal experience. He says if on a daily basis if you look at those people who you look down on and you say to yourself that these guys are better than me, inshallah Allah Allah Tala will save you from any mental health issues, anxiety and depression and you'll have a good mind.
So shall it works I've tried it in so smart, it did work for me, even though they last long, because I was thinking about this today or yesterday, actually, something very similar. And I was thinking about something I was like look,
you need to is sometimes you have to seek and find ways to
realistically and rationally justify that other Muslims are better than you, not in a way to bring yourself down by in a way just to focus on yourself. And then once you do that, you'll be a shining example for others by in a natural way, in a non egotistical way. So sometimes, you know, when I think you know, you know, sometimes Shakedown whispers, whispers to you, then you got to develop strategies. And you're like, Well, this guy knows more Hadith than you who knows more than the news. So by virtue of that you're nothing. So you need to find strategies, all you need to think about, oh, you know, I've made I've done a lot of sins, but you have to do it in a way that doesn't
deliberately hate you. Because there is the other extreme where you start basically thinking that you're not worthy of anything and then you start despairing of the Mercy of Allah subhanho wa taala, which is a terrible thing to do. So
Allahu Majid Ali.
Fei and Nancy aubema WIFIA inika We'll start we'll start with the door. The Allah make me
big in the eyes of people and small in your eyes. That is, why isn't there?
So the launcher is Aquila kind of stands for that Shaka Did you see Bartok Allah pecan chef hijab chef Youssef
Allah Allah Allah bless you all inshallah key with all stars ever got your permission to leave now?
He cannot speak now.
He said hi.
I let them sit down?
Do you know do you know on the other hand, though, can I say something? So because I've been thinking about this? Yeah. A lot of people are jealous people. And Jealousy is a dangerous game, especially if you play with me, right?
A lot of people are jealous people.
those people I feel
like they need to, because I was thinking about like, on a spiritual and also psycho spiritual perspective. Yeah, I'm not like Teskey a guy.
I'm not really that good like that. But, um, I was gonna say is that you have to look at your temperament, this is a very important thing. Some people have a temperament, to jealousy, they're jealous type, you're, so you're looking at everyone thinking Subhanallah, he's got this, he's got that he's got this, he's better than me in these ways, or she's better than me. I wish I had what they have, I wish I had that. And they keep burning themselves by doing that, right? Those people actually need to do the opposite of, of what we've just discussed, they need to see what Allah has given them.
Because if they don't do that, they will become more and more jealous and up on them up. So in many ways, you need to, you kind of need to assess your own psychological temperament. And there are ways now like, for example, there's an anagram test, which I found quite useful is called truancy. It's quite good, you know, we can see what kind of like your strengths and weaknesses are. And you need to see where you are on the spectrum. If you are someone who's extroverted, who has all of these things, you need to employ a lot more of the advice that of looking at other people seeing how they're better than you, etc. and humbling yourself. But if you're a person who's, let's say, on the
other side of the psychological spectrum, where you're always looking at comparing yourself with other people, and you're always thinking, Oh, look, I wish I had that. I wish I had kids. I wish I was married to that person. I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, why does he get to have it? Why does she get to have it? That actually the opposite, and you need to do the opposite. If I'm gonna be in Yamato, because I had this, that's where that comes in. So that you come in with actually, let me let me count my blessings. I've got this, he might have this, but I have this. He might have this, but I have this. She might have this, but I have this. So will you start realizing that because what
it is, is if you keep saying, well, he's better than he or she's bio Keitha that's important for people like me who are extroverted, and they need to humble themselves. But some people are so timid and placid. And so self flagellating, you know, in their lives, personal and psychological lives, that they need, literally the opposite. And so there is a middle ground somewhere, where someone is recognizing the abilities and strengths of others, and making being grateful for their own what Allah has given them, but at the same time, not putting himself down to a very low level. But that middle ground is different for each person. So for me, someone like me, because the the temperament
I'm, I try and be as self aware as possible and realize that my temperament is one extroverted side, I need to do more of what we refer to as Estacada, neffs, or lowering my ego lower myself think that this person, so much power in these ways, whatever. But other people who have a different kind of temperament where they're where they're always doing it, and they're super jealous that they cannot live a lie. And then because super jealous generally leads to leads to denial of other leads to cover. Because it's exactly what she found on. It says, at a high woman, Hala kitanomine
Calacatta, Milano Calacatta. When when, you know, he greeted me and then like, it can blow up it can? Why is it that why? Why, why? And then you start rejecting the cousin of Allah? Or why is it that I can't have kids? But my friends come? Why is it that you know, she's married? And I'm not? Why is it that I'm married? And he's, she's my, he's married? And I'm not, why is it that he's got money? And I don't, you know, and whatever it was, yeah.
So, so you need to see what I
was gonna say.
Yeah, jumping the mouth. Good enough. They can they would contextualize I believe everyone's kind of prescription, like, you would see the person's psychological disposition and give them what they need. So it's not always one rule for all for sure. Absolutely. And we will see this in the Hadith teacher. And we see this in basically the way they're, you know, like, even al Ghazali, the way he dealt with Shu heart and dealt with philosophy. And, you know, for some people who said, You can't give people color is going to be poison for them, right? Or something like that you give them if it's psychologically oriented, given more psychological existential perspectives. So yeah, you're
right, even from a Tesco loss perspective. It's, it's horses for courses, like you have to be very specific, because you have to know who that person is, what the variable variable variables are, and give them the right medicine. And it's even with leadership when you're dealing with individuals, that you have to deal with them in a way that's more conducive to their development and growth. And that, I think, makes leadership extremely hard and draining, but if you send it to them, you have to you just have to do it, you know,
so maybe check my
He recently has something to say on this. I would like him to say something on this actually.
But I just wanted to
go. But thank you so much for everyone.
for coming, love bless you, bro.
I just wanted to add some Can you hear me?
Yeah. So there is a psychological part of it with
Muhammad hijab mentioned and about pondering about
the mountains that Alaska has blessed you with. But is also there is that spiritual part of it that when you are aware that you feel that jealousy and you actually want to have the cure from Allah subhanaw taala. And is that if you're just
from someone is actually to make dua for them as online quizzes with them in dunya. So making that step, which at the beginning, will not come out from your heart, because of you doing that step and actually showing really, that you want to be cured from that. Allah Sahaja slowly, slowly kills your hearts from it.
Yes, that's actually true. And that works by the way, it works, even if you don't feel it in the beginning. And even if you're going to Sagitta and you'd like to say, oh, Allah, make this person better than me, make them the best day in the world. Or no, you just, you just you, the more you do it, the more would happen. And these things work. You know, when it comes to these spiritual things, don't try to rationalize them because you don't know the causes and effects. It's not a it's not a mechanical thing. This is, you know, based on the Hedaan, or loss of Hannah Montana and his his guidance, right, and his revelation, and you know, the teachings of our pious spiritual masters. So
we have to know and it's been tried and tested for over 1000 years or so. And when you do it, and it's exponential, you only understand it works when you do it. So if you feel a bit of maybe unhealthy, blameworthy competition, or a bit of jealousy, one Llahi go in such there and make dua for them that they become better than you they become successful and all of these things. And I'm telling you over time, you will free yourself from these spiritual elements just off the head chef mentality. This is three faith for me here almost someone already suggests he was less than two hours, so
I'm gonna try and sleep for two hours cuz I was seven and a half hour drive tomorrow. Well, let me wake up your hard work guys, please take
if you're still around. If you're still here, sit around, take some more questions. And then I'm ready for
an hour ago
while he comes along?
So we just finished a use of last words and inshallah in that.
Yeah, definitely. Do you want to give your last words first and then I'll follow up after you and we'll close up and show like for those who are talking about about Dawa and I want to learn those skills etc. and not forget that it's not just about knowledge, it's about having the qualities that it needs to have and maintains we focus so much on on which was we should
convey to the person to change their heart but actually sometimes our actions talk even louder so don't do not forget the spiritual side of it. And in sha Allah with a few keep working on your spirituality with VEDA was inshallah you will have a lot of effect on people in sha Allah that um, so yeah, definitely. And it's a lot of the time you got to talk Make it louder, just like when you're doing bow and you're calling people to Islam. And you've got to remember that you're effectively you're inviting them into your house. And you know, just in the same way if you were stood outside your doorstep screaming and shouting at people and telling them they're stupid, and
this that and the other and then invite them in for a brew, they're not very likely to say yes. And then you know, we need to think of it in this way when we call it Islam we need to do so could Adam Connecticut's, and you know, you've got to be reflective upon yourself and not just absorbed in your experiences with other people but allow yourself to sort of
keep an eye on yourself so to speak while you while you're engaging in so it's definitely important and I'm just to plug lighthouse project one more time.
It sometimes it can be very difficult to answer these questions because
I put on Muhammad hijab was making reference to there. Sometimes an answer requires another person who's asking the question. And it can be very difficult to give an answer to this sort of YouTube comment.
You know, when someone's asking for a recommendation for themselves for this, that and the other, a lot of the time, we have to know who you are what Scott, what's going on in your life? What kind of person are you? And this can affect the kind of answer that we may give you. And this is where the lighthouse projects.
It's a great opportunity for you guys, wherein you can have an opportunity to have a one to one conversation with us. So there's seven offers myself included, but the hamsters officers
I've got a man and Jake from the Thor adventure podcast, Fahad Teslin, who was on earlier, another member of the CPC chat, Dr. Othman Latif. And, you know, we we do several sessions a week, where you can just sit down and have a proper talk with us. And we can give you personalized answers based on the information you're giving us. And we can help you through things like that. So if you're just interested in Islam, or if you're looking for leadership skills, or qualities in, you know, information or direction, when it comes to giving dour and beginning projects and things like that, you know, life coaching sometimes, in many cases, so do check out a safe institute.org forward slash
lighthouse project, it's a free service. Please just if you do use it, make sure to turn up, we have a little problem with people's attendance sometimes, where they booked meetings and don't show up, which is quite frustrating, because obviously, that we're putting a lot of effort into the service. And if you don't show up that was wasted, that could have gone to someone who could have made use of that time. So make sure you're setting reminders in your calendars, notifications that pop up at the day before an hour before the meeting.
And keep an eye on your emails because that's where the information is coming through. And make the effort to turn up if you do book a meeting, don't waste that opportunity. And you know, for your own sake, and if you can't turn up just let us know beforehand so we can open the space up for someone who can, Inshallah, so just keep that in mind.
Other than that, apologies to everyone. I know there was a lot of people trying to get on and ask questions, we weren't able to answer them all. And may Allah bless you all for your patience, Inshallah, if you prefer, you can just send an email to us lighthouse at CPS institute.org and inshallah try go through them the beginning of the week. And if you've got questions, I can still transfer and if I can't answer, I'll try to find someone who can inshallah. But yeah, other than that, thank you to everyone who's been supporting us and who's subscribed to us and following us on the websites, etc. In the courses. You know, make sure to follow us if you aren't, and so you can
keep updated on what we're going to be doing going into the future. But other than that, may Allah bless you all. And yeah, we'll see you again in sha Allah Salam o Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Salaam Alaikum